“She Is Very in Touch With How She Operates” | Psychotherapist Lucy Beresford On Lucy Letby
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2023
- Psychotherapist and broadcaster Lucy Beresford joins Peter Cardwell to speak about the impact of the actions of neonatal nurse Lucy Letby who murdered seven babies.
Letby was in her mid-20s and working at the Countess of Chester Hospital at the time of the murders and after being convicted, is now the UK's most prolific child killer of modern times.
#lucyletby #police #crime #talktv #talkradio
I have worked as a nurse for over 50 yrs, both in the UK and SA. A major contributing factor to her dreadful actions not being recognised much earlier was that the medical doctors concerns were not dealt with correctly by management when they were raised. This would not have happened even 30 yrs ago, doctors professional opinions were listened to and fully investigated. In the Care Home setting any allegations of abuse or in this case malpractice has to be reported to the police who then lead the investigation. There should be strict protocols and pathways to follow when allegations are made about a staff members practice.
30, 60, 1000 years ago, these same things happened probably even more unnoticed. Maybe regular stringent Psychmetric tests might at least help prevent some of it ?
There needs to be a code of ethics for NHS bureaucrats that requires them to prioritise the welfare of the patients and the staff above the reputation of the hospital.
@@alayneperrott9693 It could be suggested that Lucy Letby's case ( if we were to look at it in a different light ) could also be a way to explain the fundamental failings in the NHS ( and even social care ) - where a culture of dereliction, is normalised, where people not looked after properly, is normalised due to all sorts of reasons.
Not saying that is the case - but a possible way to look at things.
Ie: a senior doctor coming in when a tube is out of a baby, well maybe the dislodge and it is common ?
Maybe many of these deaths are down to just very poor standards and stretched resources. So maybe it is convenient to blame it on 'mad nurses' rather than management ?
Again, just something to consider. When carers work under a system where cutting corners is normalised, workers of a decade are detached and immune to those things. Reacting with a 'smiley' face to parents is a normal thing, as you've done it 100s of times before.
I believe the defence argued that all of the things that were used to make Letby seem a 'bad nurse' are also standard in Nursing in the cutting corners culture - ie: signing off notes for other nurses etc etc etc.
Again, whatever the case, it is a failing either way.
Though - let's say you work making cars and as you were stretched for time, resources, working long hours, pressured - it effects people's thinking and rationale. You might start using less bolts to save them.
Then when the news comes in that cars are falling to bits in accidents causing deaths, is the management going to take it ? Or look for an convenient way out ? Ie: a naive scapegoat ?
Well ! Not saying that is what has happened at all ! Just a thought -maybe a even a bit of both - but would the management go in the dock ?
Public services behave like this. How long did it take police to admit failings and poor decisions, poor deployment of police, etc, at Hillsborough that led to that tragedy ? 30 years ? What did they do? They blamed the ground and the supporters, anyone but themselves.
I wonder if an insidious mentality existed on that ward ( and others ) that knows 'corners are cut' ?
Isn't it terrible that there were two recent cases of nurses being accused of manslaughter in the US for being put in unmanageable situations (an elderly man died in a care home after a new policy came in that residents have a 'right to fall', and a travel nurse left in charge of 39 very unwell dementia patients was accused of gross neglicence)? And cases where dead newborns were clearly injected with artificial neglicence were allowed to pile up before anything was done?
@@intrepidtomato 'artificial insulin' I guess you mean ? - though I guess what you are driving at, is how much of the Letby cases, crosses into grey areas of dereliction of care due to overfull wards, understaffed, lack of clear direction from management and lack of resources etc etc - how many other babies have died while other nurses are on duty ? Overworked people make all kinds of poor decisions, depending on their character and mental state.
Maybe if there was regular psychological screening, it would have taken someone off working with the public years before anything got so out of hand.
Ie: a person that makes bad decisions under pressure ? OR at least, someone psychopathic, if the case
Just horrendous..... and how was she allowed to go on when suspicions were raised? Management needs to lose their jobs!!
they need to go to trial,not only lose their jobs
They need to go to jail. The hospital needs a civil action against them. They poor babies that are growing up brain damaged need life long care.
You are right! Legal proceedings are needed... Management is culpable and they need to be held accountable. They let more murders happen....
I'm very annoyed and disgusted, that Lucy Letby was showing unstable behaviour at the hospital, long before being caught. Doctors were being pressured to keep quiet and concerns were made in Oct 2015. Who ever that was ignoring staff, should be getting the Sac, along with charges as well.
It comes down to whistle blower not being protected and work colleagues not being supportive.
He resigned on the day she was arrested and scarpered
Unstable - how so?
Lucy Letby should be made to attend court and face everyone, as she listens to her sentencing!
How kicking and screaming then all the court is turned into something else the main thing is she will be told her sentencing by her lawyers.
I agree. The parents of the babies should be able to give their impact statement and the judge should be able to address the convicted person. I think maybe an additional term in prison or withdrawal of prison privileges should be made for those who refuse to face sentencing. This person took away the right to life from those children and their parents. The perpetrator's rights should come way behind the victim's rights. Personally, I'd have them gagged and in a straight jacket but they would be in court.
@@melkin3549 Which explains why society is so dysfunctional, trapped in a cycle of 'an eye for an eye' - which solves absolutely nothing. Maybe if there was a society that recognised mental health issues in a way that was not like the 1600s - and that mandatory four times a year mental health screening, for all public service workers existed, then this would have been prevented years ago.
It is sort of pointless if the reasons are some kind of mental illness. Unless the person really is llike pol pot ?
@@melkin3549she would probably derive pleasure from their impact statements: after all, she’s a psychopath. And could turn the whole thing into a circus if she starts screaming and shouting from the dock, in which case, she would have to be removed anyway. Someone who is already facing life imprisonment is hardly going to be deterred by ‚an extra term‘ imposed if they don’t appear for sentencing!
Agreed 100%.
How the hell does she get to choose whether she will attend the court proceedings or not.
It blows my mind how that law was allowed in initially.
Who decided that criminals won't be forced to face their victims if they felt it would be too uncomfortable to do? WTF
Once again it's the person committing the crime that has the law on their side, it's their right not to have to face the person they harmed.
The entire system is broken & Covid highlighted this, plus it's still in the process of showing us what F'UP's run our countries.
Major decisions are made that are counter to what the people need or want however, they benefit those in charge who are running the corrupt system.
It gets worse and goes deeper and we all sit staring at our screens doing nothing.
Wake up people, mobilise ourselves and let them know ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
the fact that management were so tardy in reporting it to the police this makes them guilty /complicit in the crime , they should be held accountable too ...an apology is not enough
Thank you. The situation is still very raw after the verdict. Grieving parents are angry and acceptably too. We're all knocked sideways by this tragedy and of course it's right to say evil does exist in the world often in places and hearts where we least expect it to.. Lucy Letby isn't owning it, yet. Demonising her is also less likely to bring her to the reality of the situation. There's enough to be dealing with in the grieving process so the hate speech is best kept from escalating into more harm.
On the other hand, the NHS is seriously at fault too and focus on essential changes to the system ought to be a major priority here. When a hospital management system fails to support its senior clinical staff's advice in place of political correctness, many bad things begin to happen to the stability and safety of the institution and the lives of patients who have invested their trust in it.
There was no "political correctness" involved. It was complacency and cowardice, not political correctness.
Killing nurses are extremely rare, and nurses killing babies are even more rare. So in the first months doctors and management can be excused to suspect bad luck, unknown pathogens, ... . - But then the doctors became suspicious, and rather soon suspicious also of Letby: it was THAT unusual and inexplicable (they thought for a while they might have an unknown virus or bacterium that harmed the children. So doctors and nurses were not complacent, they racked their heads for an explanation what could be going on. And they found out that Letby always were present in these cases).
The unlikely odds of stable children (or children with mild illnesses) having these collapses and the completely out-of-norm patterns should have alarmed management. They did alarm doctors (the people that have medical knowledge, and whose experience / professional instinct warns them when something was completely out of order).
But management (the non-medical people) likely feared that a fruitless criminal investigation (the most likely outcome) would leave a stain. A baby killer was extremely unlikely and they could not bring themselves to face the problems in the case "what if". Nor could they be bothered to err on the side of caution (I mean there had been a case in the UK 30 years ago, it was not completely unherad of). Rather exclude that unlikely scenario and deal with some upset of staff and some reputational damage then risk a repetition.
To be sure Letby put up a good facade and she also convinced many parents that she was a good, friendly and caring nurse. (one couple considered to offer her to become the godmother. Luckily at that time doctors were suspicous enough to transfer the baby to the next hospital. A collegue of Letby said that she was really angry that she did not have the baby in the last shift, before it was moved. Which the mother then took as sign how engaged all these nurses were. They were all eager to be assigned to the care of the child. Doctors explained to the parents there might be a virus on the station, and they would not risk the early born being present. They expected the child to survive - it was born with 3 pounds, but it did not make good progress.
Likely that transfer saved his life, it is save to assume that Letby lowkey deprived him of oxygen, she even sent a hand made card for mothers day to the parents. Inside a photo, and no tubes on the baby. Father asked her if his son was not supposed to get oxygen all the time ? Letby said: No we cleaned the bed and changed equipment, and then they are off the tubes for a bit. Which was b.s. But the parents were convinced she was super engaged, and took her excuse at face value. They also assumed that all the parents of early borns got such cards (maybe a group of volunteeers making the card and staff providing the photos). Letby risked something - if the parents had mentioned that to other staff, this highly unusual behavior would have come out.
But Letby could not fool the doctors for many months (as opposed to fellow nurses, managment and the parents), so it begs the questions why managment would not listen to the experts and be like: Nah, it can't be a serial killer, we have just a series of bad luck. It would be all terrible trouble.
People like this have no! Empathy or regrets.
So what if she is "damaged" - does that resolve her from the life damaging things she did. It is quite right for society to label the people who do great harm to society as evil. Most people do not murder babies and children. This sort of apologia is infuriating.
It is possible to detect psychotic or anti-social behaviour (as you prefer to see it) it just isn't easy. Just like it isn't easy to detect a liar sometimes. Nevertheless, with proper training and forewarning, you can increase your rate of detection. Detectives can detect criminals better than the average citizen and professional detectives (those that were born to be who they are) have an even higher rate of success than the average detective/police population. That's what children's tales are there for. To give you a forewarning of what life has in store for you, to train you, to make you aware.
Furthermore, I do disagree with the relativistic, incongruous and simplistic view of the lady psychologist on evil. Relativistic - she tries to minimize the acts of the criminal while at the same time amplify the minimalistic acts of the general population. A bit like a priest talking about original sin. "We are all guilty"...
Incongruous - at the same time she says evil does not exist and is merely "a social construct" (which is true though there is a strange popularity in the expression which warrants some deeper observation) she tries to say we all have evil inside us. No. Evil implies evil intent. Not all of us have evil intent. And evil on this scale implies evil intent on a murderous scale. The vast majority of "evil" in us is not of a murderous nature. There is a barrier there which separates two worlds but Left ideology (which is prevalent in the psychology field, by the way) does not like hierarchies, stratification or separated strata. It loves the idea that we are all the same, nothing is clear black and white, everything is grey, everything is one fluid mass, with no distinct limits or clear separations...borders...
Simplistic - she seems to be talking about the idea of evil from the point of view of someone who never actually delved on the other side of the debate. People who believe in evil do not have the conception that evil and good are separated from each other like water and oil. I don't know where she came up with such primitive Manichean idea but it clearly was not from books or lore. People who believe in evil understand that evil can enter the hearts of anyone and everyone and can exist in different levels of intensity. Satan is supposed to have been an angel at a certain time.. Demons are supposed to possess people... Want more evidence than that?
Yes, evil is a social construct. Just as Justice, Logic and Psychology. No, it does not imply absolute, exclusive, presence. Yes, it has a practical usefulness for those who study it. Perhaps more than an ideology which states that we are all the same and there is no difference between a murderous psychopath and the average citizen and so it's useless to try to distinguish both. Police and detectives make a distinction between them everyday. Wouldn't be able to find criminals believing there is no distinction.
Yes, there are signs. People just chose not to heed them. Have a look into Gavin de Beker's book: The Gift of Fear.
Like when a child abusers says they were abused, don't give you the right to do it to anyone else. She's is just evil, calculated and I hope she spends every single day of her life in jail
She is almost certainly a narcissistic psychopath. These people are wired differently. They are the predators of the human race. They are absolutely capable of things that normal people aren't.
Obviously not, she’s going to spend the rest of her life in prison. But what the doctor is saying is still true.
Firstly the word is "absolve", not resolve. Second, she us not presenting " apologia", she is explaining the psychological reactions of the rest of us (just like yours) to these people and their crimes. She's saying some humans do inhumane things, but they're still human, whether we ( and you), like it or not
Evil is just that... Evil. Yes, it exists among us but it is an aberration. We are not all capable of this.
Her wickedness is one thing but management were stupid, callous, indifferent or just too concerned with their image to care about the babies and their families. Different type of evil in my opinion. Shocking! She could have been stopped so much earlier.
I completely agree. Only certain people can take life from others.
Some call it evil, some call it psychopathy or more accurately personality disorders. They are human predators. Most of them don't kill, they just emotionally ab*se, humiliate, and control others. They are all incredibly dangerous. And no, most of us aren't capable of the behaviours that personality disordered people do.
Peter seems like such a stand-up kind of a guy, never one to spout off or aggressively talk over people - but I can see he really is deeply concerned and feels a personal stake in the news he reports.
Excellent work, really can't praise enough.
Evil is Evil if you believe in good then evil exists also, psychotherapist will always tell you evil is mental illness give us a break
We cannot turn her into a victim as she is nothing but a murderer who abused her status when she should have been caring for the babies in her care the real victims are the families and their children not this monster
We’re not turning her into the victim, we are saying she is one of us, and all humanity is fallen.
@@alteredcatscyprus there was no humanity in her as she is truly a monster nothing more
I am not prepared to judge that it is over for her. We are all in the process of becoming human beings as long as we are alive and there is another day. I can’t say I’m there. Can you? @@seanarmstrong7059
@@maggiehyder7075 I believe evil is a spiritual issue. I am not that confident in myself. Better to always believe I am capable of such things so I can remember self control is essential to develop and maintain. I think forgetting that is where the road to justifying one’s own evil deeds tends to begin. If Lucy’s notes are to be believed, even she was torn about herself, at moments accusing herself, at others being able to justify herself to herself. Self justification is dangerous for all of us, and the temptation to do so is great. We are weak. We must always remember this.
@@maggiehyder7075 Ok, I think I see where you are coming from now. Well, it was said it’s out of our hearts that flow all the issues of life, and I think that even includes our minds, which is different in many respects from our brains, but definitely related. One could say it’s out of our hearts and brains our minds are created. We call it the nous in Greek. So whatever is fed into our hearts, or is not fed into them, and whether we know how to protect them, or don’t know, it makes a great difference as to a person’s psychological and spiritual development.
She got a thrill out of it. The biggest window into her behaviour was looking the families up on Facebook afterwards taking pictures of the sympathy cards she sent on the day the children died. It gave her an extra kick. Think about that.
What is it we should all think about ?
@@aliencactus720how evil she is to do that.
@@coolzombie816 The word 'evil' is just a leftover Christian superstious mentality from the 1600s, to eplain things that are hard to comprehend.
A little alarming senior people in public service use this word. It is just an adjective, not an explanation or reason. Maybe if more time was invested to talk honestly about the reasons, then these things might be less likely to happen.
The problem is, most people are too afraid really, to talk honestly about these shocking human behaviours, as it means looking at themselves ( through society ) honestly.
When people say "evil" they ascribe it as if it exists in another place far away but it does not, it exists in the society we are all raised into and rather than using silly adjectives, maybe changing the focus of society beyond that of the 1600s, might be a start.
As well as focussing education on understanding the human mind and psyche.
As well as addressing the use of regular and rigorous Psychometric evaluations, to all public service workers, that would be able to detect an issues. Which might help filter and prevent these things happening, by addressing issues ten years ago ( in this case ) not after it is too late.
Then, instead of dead babies, we might be talking about a Nurse who was having proper therapy at a younger age and maybe even advised to pursue an alternative career.
That would be what a sane society would do - but instead, we have a superficial society where you can smile and 'be positive' in an interview and get the job.
Then when society fails collectively, no one is brave enough to take responsibility and instead say "it is evil' - rather than looking a bit more intelligently and deeply.
Time to grow up maybe and come to terms with the levels of dysfunctionality in a large portion of society and why our society fosters and creates that or allows it to flourish to points where it is too late.
So not only are several families distressed, you have someone now as 'the witch' who is 'evil' for the village to blame for all the ills of society. Aside from this person's parents of course, who no doubt some morons will try and attack. Which solves nothing.
you are psychopath if u think about that..normal person couldnt think about that😂😂😂😂
@@aliencactus720She used Facebook to relive it and feel the power & control agàin. Another kind of trophy taking in a way. The trophies serial killers take are used for that purpose. She also had copies of the babies medical records in her home too , they were found under her bed in a plastic bag.
I don’t understand how concerns about a member of staff were not dealt with!! That is just beyond me!! They need to lose their jobs they did not follow protocol!! Things have to change - babies have died, it’s crazy!!!! What is this world?
Unfortunately some of them have already retired with their huge pensions! I hope they are sued! Big time!
Many children are brought up in a toxic environment, abused, not loved, yet go on to become the most gentle of people, she choose to do this, no excuse.
Not an excuse, but an explanation.
She's a narcissistic psychopath. Started with her childhood and most likely the way she was brought up as an only child. Narcissists are not only neglected at childhood but also as overindulged children too. I found it interesting that it was reported her mother said she committed the crimes, "take me" she said. Mmmmm.....taking responsibility for her daughter's actions. How many times during her daughter's childhood did she not reprimand bad behaviour?? Mollycoddling in children has consequences.
Lots of people are brought up as only children or over under indulged etc. They don’t do these things. This woman is one in a multi million individual who actually got a thrill out of killing babies.
We'll never find a recipe for murderers. The brain and life has too many factors to reach a clear formula. We do can say overindulging a child is on step closer. Probabilities increase, not decrease, with such actions. Because psychopathy and anti-social behaviour is based, mainly, on selfishness. @@jmo8934
I subscribe to your evaluation. Overindulgence is one first step, though I think neglect more often leads to murderous behaviour while overindulgence more often leads to selfish, but not murderous behaviour. Meaning 1st degree murder. Selfish behaviour easily leads to 2nd and 3rd degree murder but not 1st degree.
That’s correct. That killer was over indulged and the mother didn’t want her to take responsibility. That in itself is abuse because the kid never learns how it is in the real world. These details are hard to listen to.
@@jmo8934can't you understand what this person is saying? Often only children are very entitled and become narcissists. There. Get it now?
Hat 🎩 off to you both for such pertinent and sensitive insight into the dark side of man.
dark side of people
Letby is female
Man refers to mankind. @@violinstar5948
Except she's partly wrong. We don't all share the same dark side. People who do this are personality disordered (narcissism, psychopathy). They do things that most people aren't capable of, because they are wired differently. They are human predators, whether they kill or just emotionally ab*se. They are evil, if you want to use that word, and they are different than us. And they are very, very good at passing normal mental health screening. We need screening for personality disorders.
She'll be attacked whether she is in prison or a high secure hospital
Rose west was just moved,she was getting bullied so bad by other serial killers..even they hate them! *can’t wait* shiving seasons coming guys
Don`t forget she is a highly educated individual. Top of the class at University. She can twist anybody round her little finger......
@@deadeyes4626 "can’t wait shiving seasons coming guys" - what does that mean ?
@@heathermartin8932 OF course, you are an expert ?
@@aliencactus720 I am a qualified psychiatrist if that is what you are asking.
I thought it was standard practice to have CCTV on a neonatal ward.
Yes that seems absurd there wasn’t. Particularly as there was a high rate of deaths on that unit.
@@karencampbell2410apparently the consultant suggested to have cctv on the unit but the execs just dismissed the idea.
Thoughts and prayers for the families. Sleep in peace little ones.
Prayers to the same god that stood by and let this happen? Nothing fails harder than prayers!
@@thebodykeepsthescore2828 here we go again another atheist having a go at someone for saying anything linked with religion. OK OK ther is no god what ever you want. If someone prays for anyone it's not any harm is it?! Just be a good person already. If I said I pray for you Mr score2828, are you hurt in any way physically or mentally? Can't you assume it was said in a good way? In good faith?! oops, I said faith you gonna have a go at me now?
My prayers are going out to the family's of all the babies that are involved with this horrendous tragedy. 🙏🏻😢
Yeah that'll help! 🙄
🤦♂
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and “their women with child shall be ripped up."
Psalm 137:9 "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks"
Anyway, nothing fails harder than prayers
Fiction does nothing in situations like these. Grow up
It’s really strange how it’s never said there’s no such thing as being good or brave but when it’s something evil it’s just a mental/flawed disorder
Exactly. Psychotherapy has a place but it’s not in evaluating morality. Her actions were evil and she is to blame.
Exactly couldn’t agree more
My thought are with the parents 🌹 and it’s shocking how the directors and Co didn’t take this seriously when they was first told about this 🤬 all them babies that she killed 🥲. She needs to behind bars for the rest of her life!!!
I agree with this lady. People will separate this case from the real world. This situation will be played out like a horror movie, the main characters, the script and the end, post reviews of the movie to dissect. There will be an enquiry. It will then disappear into the annals of history and forgotten. Letby will become a person of interest to study in the mental health and legal sectors. Letby will have millions spent on her welfare and counselling and she will probably get a new identity and isolated in a comfortable environment and she will deny forever more she had anything to do with this, it is her next power play, lots of attention and control what she tells people and phycologists and shrinks will be lining up to interview her for their own research and career, she will become a case study. The parents will never get Justice or closure and their hearts will never mend.
Not if she gets a whole life tariff. Meaning she’ll die in jail.
She probably has a personality disorder, if not several, and she will never change or want to change. Such people are always dangerous, whether they kill or not. They harm others continuously. They live, eat and breathe to manipulate others and to be destructive.
That is an absolute fact GillyMaid & one that has always kept my blood simmering, when I hear the line " we need to learn as much as we can about these people to prevent it happening again " from the psychologists & psychiatrists I could roar because WE don't need to learn anything about them & THEY never seem to learn anything from them.
I don't understand the reluctance to see her as a killer. All the psych research shows the 3 most popular career choices for those with psychopathic traits, are, in order: Corporate CEO, Medicine, Law Enforcement. They gravitate to roles that fill their need for power, status & control.
Lucy will milk this from jail, as you say with the line up of shrinks, wanting to ''understand''.
" Lessons must be learned " is the subtitle of this video. I remember the very same platitudes being expressed over the Beverley Allit case back in the 1990's & It's all nothing but lip service because it appears the NHS is no further forward in their standards & procedures today than they were then.
RIP to all those babies & my sincere condolences to their families.
Iv seen so many people saying the jury might have got it wrong. What she done is so horrific I don’t think people can process it and can’t bring themselves to believe it.
17 mistakes.....?@@TOM-TOM-TOM
All mistakes happening while Letby is on shift? Letby writing a note in her diary “I am evil” and “I did this”. Writing initials of victims in her diary on the dates they were killed. She had hospital documents stored under her bed with information about the babies. The paediatricians on the neonatal unit had ruled out other possibilities and are certain Lucy Letby was responsible for harming the babies and wanted her removed from the neonatal unit
I was very shocked by it
@lisar655 Exactly. Some people think circumstantial evidence can't be compelling but circumstantial evidence alone can prove guilt. It was 17 times babies weren't expected to collapse & she was the only person there for each and every one. She was found guilty cos she can't possibly be innocent.
@@TOM-TOM-TOM Just in the one neonatal unit within that hospital though?
That type of evil doesn't exist in all of us.
I think her infatuation with the married doctor had a lot to do with all.
Why did she look up the families on Facebook later including on Christmas Day? She loved the consequences of what she had done.
He made a big mistake indulging her so much too.
She started killing before he started working at the hospital
The fact that she actualled killed each one of three triplets really points out to me that there probably was some orientation towards harming and fooling the parents, unless it was a case of simply her murdering by compulsive repetitive behavior.
I think she was a perfectionist with no empathy, and an over- indulged child. She desperately wanted to find Mr Right and have a family, but found faults in all the men she met. She was envious of those parents, because they had kids - were the parents all couples? I think she thought those premature kids were imperfect, and would make imperfect adults, and thought she was ending their suffering, plus easing the burden they would put on their parents.
I think she was treated special in her childhood because she was an only child but couldn't get that in the real world and so resented the love and attention that people gave these new born babies.
Yes. That's also true. There's a lot to unpack about her.@@namrofni6236
creative theory, geez!! my theory is more simple - lucy is innocent & she is a scapegoat!! other people higher than her know the real truth!!!
OK, fine. Spell it out to me in coded form so it doesn't get disallowed. I've heard similar comments, but I don't quite get them.@@normankennith7919
Your theory isn't simple, it's simple minded.
Pure evil is a construct? Absolute rubbish. Anyone who says that is just showing that they haven't experienced it.
I don’t think that level of evil resides within all of us . Lucy made a choice to be evil
There has to be something in her upbringing.
The fact that her parents were threatening with complaints about the consultant's to the GMC on her behalf as if she was some kind of adult child and the fact that they are still in denying in court that she did any wrong doing speaks volumes about what kind values, if any, she was taught growing up.
@@sphenoidjjjI agree, I suspect she was spoilt rotten and learnt that she could run rings round her parents. I bet there are other people in her family that saw that. Children need boundaries. Can’t blame the parents though if they did. As parents most of us do the best we can. Sounds like they put her on a pedestal.
@@sudenims5235Although environmental factors play a part, psychopathy is genetic. She would have learned very early, how to manipulate her parents.
@sphenoidjjj I am a Nurse. I am astounded a grown woman took her parents with her to fight her corner. So many missed opportunities to stop her. I think Hospital managers should face some serious consequences for their failings.
I agree with this Lady.
How can LL avoid hearing the impact statements? This is appalling.
I know! She caused the pain and suffering but doesn't want to hear it??? She needs to be tied up and wheeled in and forced to listen.
The UK law that gives them that right there has been attempts to get it overturned but I think it was there to avoid any undue drama in the courtroom so it stops them from acting up and getting themselves thrown out of court anyway, you see it happen a lot in American corutrooms.
Odd how only one person gets sent to prison?
Lady you defending this demon? How dare you what about those tiny babies
People like her can’t comprehend pure evil when they see it and they don’t want to deal with it so they come up with this nonsense.
she didn't see the babies or anyone else as real people, thus she could kill and harm without any real effect to herself. I think she is a sociopath. I hope she's locked up for the rest of her life.
She is a spineless evil woman. May she never have a moment of peace for the rest of her life.
Condolences to those innocent babies and their heartbroken families 💔
OK Stephanie What did she do wrong.?
@@von-Adler back in your little box and lock 🔒 it please 🙏 have a blessed day !
If she wasn’t from the U.K. she would have been sacked LONG AGO. She certainly would have been sacked when caught just “standing there” while a baby’s Oxygen levels were dropping and the ventilator obviously disconnected.
The good nurse unfortunate title on netflix is in the US again is was covered up by the hospital as they didnt want to lose money reputation it is very conrupt
Yes this is very true
She’s British mate
Yes… was she even disciplined for this at the time? Strange that she wasn’t. Brushed under the carpet.
What an evil monster
Just very upsetting. Poor babbies.
The doctors should have contacted the police earlier. I don’t know how you don’t call the police when you genuinely believe someone is murdering children. To hell with the managers, you call the cops.
She’s exactly right, and the only one I’ve heard say it.
She was taking the notes as trophies and to remind herself of her triumphs. No sane person would want to be reminded of the deaths of those babies on their shift.
No they wouldn't. She was apparently looking up the parents on Social media as well.
WHAT IS REALLY SHOCKING IS THAT NURSES ARE DEEMED TO BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOCTORS, DOCTORS CONCERNS WHERE IGNORED!!
TOO MUCH IMPORTANCE IS GIVEN TO NURSES AND TOI MUCH POWER IS GIVEN TO ADMINISTRATORS WHO ARE AS GUILTY AS LETBY
Firstly drs are just humans too. I work in a hospital as a cleaner, the drs are no better than me, you don't suddenly become a Saint when Dr is in front of your name, very offensive comment. 2nd the management are at fault here, for dismissing the drs,not nurses.
Odd how only one person goes to prison … Let’s clap for the NHS 👏👏👏
A well placed comment. The incompetence of the surrounding management is blaring. No consequence. Public sector...What can you expect...
Some people can't sympathise or empathise with the effects that the pursuit of their aims have on others. They're called psychopaths, and the psychotherapist is correct - they're more common than you think.
Yes and their everywhere read Martha stouts book "the sociopath next door " it gives ppl a good insight into their minds.
@@explorer0213 I'll look it up. Thank you for your reply.
people are saying lucy has got munchhouse by proxy. i think she's a psychopath by proxy
I think so too. She only cried when talking about herself or missing her two cats she never cried in court when the babies were mentioned.
Watch Pat Brown. She states that she's both.
Excellent interview.
A hospital hotline should be set up where if a hospital worker has suspition regarding another hospital staff,they could call it in to police without fear that if it ends up wrong they do not get penalized!
Lucy will never take responsibility for her horrendous crimes.
She got her supply by contolling if a baby lived or died.
She expected her life to go on like a princesses life, of someone falling for her, marriage and the perfect life....but she wasnt a happy person, so she did what she could to make others miserable and the pretend to console parents who had lost their babies.
She is a malignant, covert narcissist with sly and a fake personality to be able to get away with heinous crimes.
These monsters are so delusional and controlling.
She didnt like the fact that couples were so happy becoming a family and she was going home to an empty unit.
Checking the parents profiles is weird, like she wanted to be like them.
Now she wont even stand in court and face what she has done.
She will play the victim now.
...so what do you think about her parents?..........I think that there is always something in the background which makes someone like letby..........her bedroom is like a childs....sleeps with a teddy bear.......were they too pushy? Or kept her child like? She went to University..............in her notes she says she wasnt good enough..........were the parents expectations too high?...................not blaminng the parents at all.........just wondering how she could have had all those negative thoughts.............Sam Vaknin (a self confessed narcissist/psychopath was a child prodegy and felt pressurised by his parents...........maybe she will never accept what she did...........and the question remain 'Why'
On. first impressions I'll admit they do seem a bit odd.
Possibly they have ruined her as a child but I don't think myself they've caused her to act this way.
It would be interesting to know if either of them have had any police involvement as well.
She has a family, she wasn't a loner, she had a busy social life, she was busy with work also. But her involvement with parents in her job was not normal, it was pathologigal, especially for a person that was witnessing so many collapses, resuscitation attempts, deaths and bereavement of parents, you'd think she'd like to stay sometime away or distance herself from all that.
How can she refuse to appears in court??? They should shackle her and drag her in forcibly. Also regardless of other things said about her psychology/motives, she is in my mind a Sadist. Many of her victims would have been in horrible pain She got off on that. THEN she got off on the pain of the parents, which is why she hung around them in their grief.
Sadist, through and through, (and probably a lot more besides)
Fully agree...It's like removing half of the sentence...Half of the pedagogical weight of Justice...Progressive mentality. Go figure!
So much talking about how justice should not be revengeful, should not be based on the idea of punishment but on the idea of correcting a person and pedagogy. And then, a few years down the line, the poor criminal cannot be made to suffer impact statements or sentencing because it might hurt his/her feelings...Great progress.
Pity the authorities cant drag her to court to face the grieving parents 😢
She won’t - she won’t realise anything at all. She’s disassociated
How can she opt out of sentencing and victim impact?
Fully agree...It's like removing half of the sentence...Half of the pedagogical weight of Justice...Progressive mentality. Go figure!
So much talking about how justice should not be revengeful, should not be based on the idea of punishment but on the idea of correcting a person and pedagogy. And then, a few years down the line, the poor criminal cannot be made to suffer impact statements or sentencing because it might hurt his/her feelings...Great progress.
If Lucy Letby is not evil, then evil does not exist. She is a person who gave herself over to evil. Psychopathy or not. Not all psychopaths murder. I have no sympathy for her. I do have sympathy for her parents and family.
Very experienced and educated knowledge
People want her to appear in court to hear the impact statements, thinking that she will feel guilt or remorse. She wont, she's a psychopath. Theres no point in her listening to impact statements, theyll have no impact on her whatsoever.
i am a nurse and i do not have children and im single. i think our work can be isolating. however i do not feel angry or contempt or any feelings like hurting families. i think she should have sought therapy or friends and support. and maybe do not choose to work with children if you do not like children or have anger about not having your own children.
she should have left bedside if she felt burnt out.
Absolutely agreed. If she had any anger issues with these harmless infants, she could've transferred to another department or left the field all together. And like you stated, she could've received counseling.
Her poor elderly parents 😢.
So sad 😞 sending prayers to family members of these infants. Just awful.
I hope she gets what she deserves, justice must be served.
Nothing fails harder than prayers!
Lady psychogist.has deep insight. It is tremendous tragedy for babies their parets but also for the LL and her parents. As the psychologist says LL has realised the enormity of what what she has done. It may not be possible to prevent such thing happening again as it is not possible to detect a damaged and flawed personality in a person who is otherwise dedicated and normal. Is there evil in all of us?
I disagree. It is possible to detect psychotic or anti-social behaviour (as you prefer to see it) it just isn't easy. Just like it isn't easy to detect a liar sometimes. Nevertheless, with proper training and forewarning, you can increase your rate of detection. Detectives can detect criminals better than the average citizen and professional detectives (those that were born to be who they are) have an even higher rate of success than the average detective/police population. That's what children's tales are there for. To give you a forewarning of what life has in store for you, to train you, to make you aware.
Furthermore, I do disagree with the relativistic, incongruous and simplistic view of the lady psychologist on evil. Relativistic because she tries to minimize the acts of the criminal while at the same time amplify the minimalistic acts of the general population. A bit like a priest talking about original sin. "We are all guilty"...
Incongruous because at the same time she says evil does not exist and is merely "a social construct" (which is true though there is a strange popularity in the expression which warrants some deeper observation) she tries to say we all have evil inside us. No. Evil implies evil intent. Not all of us have evil intent. And evil on this scale implies evil intent on a murderous scale. The vast majority of "evil" in us is not of a murderous nature. There is a barrier there which separates two worlds but Left ideology (which is prevalent in the psychology field, by the way) does not like hierarchies, stratification or separated compartments. It loves the idea that we are all the same, nothing is clear black and white, everything is grey, everything is one fluid mass with no distinct limits or separation.
Simplistic because she seems to be talking about the idea of evil from the point of view of someone who never actually delved on the other side of the debate. People who believe in evil do not have the conception that evil and good are separated from each other like water and oil. I don't know where she came up with such primitive Manichean idea but it clearly was not from books. People who believe in evil understand that evil can enter the hearts of anyone and everyone and can exist in different levels of intensity. Satan is supposed to have been an angel at a certain time. Want more evidence than that?
Yes, evil is a social construct. Just as Justice, Logic and Psychology. No, it does not imply absolute, exclusive, presence. Yes, it has a practical usefulness for those who study it. Perhaps more than an ideology which states that we are all the same and there is no difference between a murderous psychopath and the average citizen and so it's useless to try to distinguish both. Police and detectives make a distinction between them everyday. Wouldn't be able to find criminals believing there is no distinction.
Yes, there are signs. People just chose not to heed them. Have a look into Gavin de Beker's book: The Gift of Fear.
Almighty god gives human beings free will but explains that taking the good path is the road to take and everyone will have to answer to god on the day of judgement
Yes . But rarely to this extent.
She must be in court....
The ‘management’ should be named. They are culpable in this. It’s like one parent knows that their child is being abused by the other parent & turns a blind eye.
What cowards they are! Management - evil
They have been named
She was an unwell person- Covert Narcissist. Triggers chose her to do this. No one is born with this want to Kill. Causes and conditions make someone do this. You may have yourself have triggers that make you out of control and make you do something that you never thought possible. We all have this in us. Please if you feel things are too much- make the right choice and get help. The other option is potentially to harm yourself or others. She was seeking help. In the wrong way- wanting help from her boyfriend to help her instead of acknowledging her difficulties in coping. She can’t accept responsibility and accountability. A license to kill. Everyone in her life would have seen a small glimpse of her behaviour and didn’t themselves understand. The more educated we as a common are toward mental health the less crimes can happen. We have to help each others when we can’t help ourselves
rubbish. she is a born killer. nothing explains this in her background. she might have felt pressures, loneliness whatever but that does not explain this.
Firmly disagree. We don't all have this in us. Some people are born with narcissistic or psychopathic tendencies. It's pretty clear to me that she is a narcissistic psychopath. She loved drama and attention, being the saviour of the babies, feeding off the parents' pain - narcissistic traits. She was also sadistic, cold, calculating, covered her tracks, planned her crimes, kept trophies, and had enough self-awareness to know that she was evil in the sight of normal society. All psychopathic traits.
...Yes, covert narcissist, depressed, unable to ask for help. I hope somebody can study Lucy to try and get some honest answers from her.
This is very difficult for public to process, Lucy Letby was giving the full trust by her profession,doctors tutors, nurses and parents . It truly is the case of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Let into the sanctum of the hospital to take care of new borns . But appear on the surface to have all the attributes of a professional caring nurse to find out you have a psychopath There should be no blame or guilt shifted onto her work colleagues a psychopath will hide there true intentions, let's not forget she went through years of training to get access to these poor babies hidden in plain sight.
Truly evil human.
Agree. Psychopaths are very difficult to process. They are masters at manipulation, at disguise. People feel disturbed they could and cannot spot the signs. But they do exists and are there in plain sight. Read Gavin de Bekers' "The Gift of Fear".
condolences to the families, the management who turned a blind eye to this should be charged with aiding and abetting, this guest saying she is a human being, I do not agree, she is a demon in human form and I do not care how she feels, I care about how these poor little babies died in pain. she should not have any rights, she lost these when she did these evil acts of murder. I do not agree that she is refusing to appear because she understands the enormity of what she has done, She does not care, she is refusing as a form of control, I do feel for her parents though they cannot help what their daughter has done.
I think she knew what she was doing ad she knows the magnitude of it, because this is what she's all about
Drag her up! For the verdict then! - She is now running the show and in prison she will be cosseted by the authorities but not by the prison population who will want to get at her.
Does anyone know why autopsies weren't done on the babies? It's incomprehensible
She does not know Lucy Letby or spoken or assessed her. The police desribed Letby as having a "vanilla" life. Meaning there was nothing in her current or past of significance she had normal upbringing (abeilt probably spoiled) and did not stand out in anyway. These psychologist always have to give a reason or label like this one did saying Letby was"damaged" she had nothing to be damaged about.
How do we know she isn’t damaged? Just because nothing has been brought up from her past doesn’t mean nothing has happened to her. There is obviously been something or her brain isn’t wired right.
You'd have to be damaged in some way to do such a thing,imo.
shes not even a psychologist, the damaged line is all about making excuses so she doesnt end up in jail.
Some people come into the world damaged. It is so hard to make sense of some abhorrent heartless behaviours.
@@harryhill8543Not at all. She's going to get a full tariff, possibly in Rampton where Beverley Allitt was sent. Like Myra Hindley, she will die in prison.
I will call her EVIL! I don't want to understand the truly offensive and heinous behavior of hers that led her to kill those newborns. This Demon is now locked away for life.
How is it right that perpetrators of some appalling crimes are allowed to refuse to attend court for sentencing. If she’s refusing to acknowledge her actions, this would go a long way to her having to face up to them. This is happening with more frequency, and the government needs to step in and make it law that they have to attend. This country is such a soft touch now it’s depressing and concerning.
No she is not human, even animals have a moral
code. Let us not turn her into a victim, psychotherapist. She is not damaged, she had a lovely closeted life. She is not the victim here, those families, staff and babies are.
How does the accused get to choose whether to attend families impact statements.?
If she trolled them on social media to observe their grief - why give up this opportunity?
The psychologist did offer a reasoned explanation. That LL is in touch but can't face what she had done. For this reason, imo she should have been 'forced' to attend. That the mothers & fathers were given the opportunity to say it to her face.!
Why ?? Cause usually everything has a reason ,is it easier to kill than nurture a baby , clearly she felt nothing for these babies ,were they inconvenient ,sounds cold and calculating ,but that seems to be her nature ??
Why the hell does that thing get to decide wether or not she will be in court?!! She should be made to!
the fact that she can refuse to attend the sentencing stinks, hopefully she will end up like richard huckle
Well done for actually speaking to someone with some sense to point out that using the word 'evil' does not describe the situation and is says nothing about the reasons. If there was mandatory psychometric screening in the police, NHS and so on , then maybe this would have been prevented years ago before it happened - and that person would have had appropriate treatment, therapy or whatever is needed - why is the way we approach things like mental health so backward still ? That senior police and media etc, can only summon the word 'evil' ? How about talking about how to prevent these things instead of just saying: "it is evil" which is like saying "it happens"
The problem is that narcissists and psychopaths aren't "mentally unwell" in the normal sense - more like "sane but evil" - and they are very good at fooling psychologists who screen for mental health problems. We need to understand that they are human predators and have rigorous testing they can't bamboozle.
I hope she doesn't end up in a foresic ward. She'd be very difficult to manage as she's so manipulative.
😢
I doubt she'll be alive longer than a year before she does herself in. 👍
I doubt it. Psychopaths don't usually kill themselves. For two reasons: they do not feel regret. They do not feel good about life for the same reasons that most of us do. So they are not equally burdened by confinement as we would be. The things that brighten their days are not the things that brighten yours and mine, and they are more likely to find sadistic anecdote in jail than on the street.
The other prisoners will probably organize it. Mothers in prison without their kids will be just as horrified as the public.
@@alayneperrott9693she will be with other similar to her not thieves and short time criminals.
what is that picture in the background??
😂no one else has noticed.
Legs, men's legs? LOL I wondered too.
@@AnneAlready doesn't seem quite right for a televised therapist 🤔
I cant help but feel if this was a man he would quite rightly be regarded as a monster and no efforts would be made by the media to 'humanise' him
There will be a documentary in the future to understand her. Probably after the further investigation into other places she worked
I think the lady makes a good point.. she should actually be considered to be transferred to a mental health facility immediately.... why is she allowed to go to prison? She is not like normal prisoners or criminals ... she is clearly sick ... this is something that judges have overlooked ...
Not a single piece of evidence against lucy , but plenty against the management. Yet shes the one in jail .disgusting !
What?? The management didn't kill the babies, she did. Obviously there is evidence, and the people that the law has entrusted to judge their peers have said that she is guilty.
@@lulufalulu7877 it was all circumstantial. But then if you took notice of the trial instead of being another ignorant troll you might have known that.
@@twistedbuddhahawhy are you so rude. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence. What do you expect a picture of her with a syringe in her hand? You wouldn't believe that either
@@twistedbuddhaharather jury saw all the evidence not you!!!
She did it to stand out at work as a star nurse in the most difficult cases saving them and then get promoted. She wanted to make them sick and then be a hero
Over the two years covered in this investigation there were 31 deaths in the ward - Lucy was present for 8 of them. There is no evidence that she harmed any patients but there is evidence that the deaths were due to the poor occupational health standards - sewerage leaking through the ceiling over a period of months. The symptoms described in the medical reports of strange rashes which came and went can be explained by the persistent presence of bacteria growing in the unit a a result. The expert paediatrician witness was a paid for evidence doctor who had retired 15 years prior and had almost no experience with neonates. He was operating a business as an expert witness and presented to the police and asked to be appointed. This is an unsafe conviction.
We are all in some way damaged but there are certain lines that most of us cannot crossed, it’s called “morality”! … this wasn’t a mistake that happened once in a moment of weakness or anger or whatever … this was a repeated pre-mediated act.
That was a woeful analysis - why not actually get a forensic psychologist/ psychoanalyst on who could produce something insightful rather than a TV agony aunt!
@AsphodeliaD Miaow!
because its unethical to provide that type of opinion without assessing them in person, which is why we have "women in floaty clothes" giving their babbles.
Suggest listening to pat brown criminologist on this case.
It’s more likely that there’s no recognition because she didn’t harm anyone, there was no evidence at the trial that anyone was murdered.
Absolutely
She is a damaged human being but I believe there is also a spiritual element involved and that’s where evil comes in. There is evil involved.
Evil manifests and operates within all of us when we let it...or if we do.
I’m sorry I have to keep saying “ The most important factor of working in care
, if by any chance you feel someone is harming anyone, you should report this” which they did and nothing was done “Why”…. It breaks my heart 💔
i don;t think she is in touch with the reality. She is a narcissist who can't stand to be criticized and her facade to fall. A person connected with reality would show up to court every day to see that false information is not presented. She can defend herself better by being there. The fact that she can't be critized and would rather rot in prison speaks volumes of her grandiosity
She tried to own the situation in the moment
Its hard to comprehend what goes on in her mind