Workload was insanely high for those pilots. Being asked 100000 times for souls on board, looking though the qrh to deal with the hydraulic issue, being vectored all over the place, setting up the fms for the diversion to JFK, and keeping a close eye on their fuel status. Can’t believe there are people out there pushing for single pilot ops 🤦♂️
No, the workload is NOT "insanely high." Do you really think the entire event transpired in 11 minutes? It didn't. The radio transmissions have been edited and time is compressed. The dead air is cut out because no one wants to sit staring at a computer screen with no audio and very little video. The entire event probably took 30-40 minutes minimum - so put a lot of dead air between the radio transmissions.
@@buckhorncortez All of this happened in a matter of 24 minutes. You can look back at FR24 data. I’m well aware they speed up the videos to capture only the transmissions. Still an insanely high workload for those pilots.
The first controller was not CPC I doubt. But, we also can't hear the full workload. My first thought is what is going on over there at N90 and LGA Local. 7110 says issue the go around instructions then obtain reason when able. This includes maybe another controller obtaining it. This is kinda why I wish we had the ability to text chat under certain circumstances though technically you could strip Mark some of this info.
It seems like every video involving US ATC involves the pilots having to repeat themselves 3-4 times when it comes to souls + FOB. If anyone at the NTSB reads this… It’s time to put pressure on the FAA to hammer this into controller’s minds. Seconds matter in an emergency.
Question from someone who has no idea how it works. Why does it take so long to get the souls on board number in an emergency? Isn't figuring out how many people are on-board after you board and close the gates pretty easy / what the FA's do / system would do based on how many boarding passes are scanned? Surely this number could be written down somewhere on the top of a check-list or something handy before take-off so it's ready to go in an emergency to pass on to the ATC. Sorry if it's not so easy ... just a thought from someone uneducated with how the flight deck works!
Well, in reality it really is not important information to relay to ATC when they're busy juggling running checklists / QRH, coordinating with their operations dept, talking with maintenance, talking with ATC, letting cabin crew know what's up, and of course flying the aircraft. Dropping a more important task to pull up the manifest just isn't that important and ultimately ATC doesn't do anything with that information anyway. Now in an ideal world (and this happens) they'll let ATC know that information when they declare an emergency up front so they don't have to tie up the radio asking for it later but even then it's all but certain the next controller will ask them the exact same information again anyway.
@@cruisinguy6024 I understand what you're saying for sure, but then why do we have videos like this one where ATC is pressing them 4 or 5 times for the number of souls on board if it isn't that important? Every single video of an emergency has ATC asking for fuel and souls on board so they can document that in their system or whatever they do on their end so it must have some importance (maybe not to the pilots at the time). But, if it procedure states that ATC must ask this then would it not be easier to spend 15 seconds to confirm this # before they even take off? Surely they could write this # down or have it ready to go and avoid scrambling to find it in an actual emergency, no? I just have seen so many videos of it being an issue or frustrating for the pilots who are doing like you said, a million other things and then being called multiple times for souls on board.
Not familiar with the type but generally it's a redundant system so not necessarily, but having it inop can change the way things behave so the go around was the right call while reviewing relevant details of how it impacts behavior of the different systems.
Souls on board and fuel remaining is not too much workload, if u can find the damned loadsheet, which tends to disappear for some reason. It is when they ask for endurance when u have to do mental maths that are a waste of brain power in such circumstances
I see no reason why souls on board cannot be declared when leaving the terminal. Take one thing off the list that the pilots are giving attention to in an emergency. I'm sure given a large enough sample size it would be a net gain in lives saved.
@m24639297 I bet you he passed it along. They then went to another frequency after that, where it was asked again. So either LGA passed it back to their supervisor and told JFK they had the info and the supervisor at LGA didn't tell the supervisor at JFK that they had the info, so the supervisor at JFK asked for it, or it was controller to controller and controller 2 didn't pass to controller 3 the info. But, my money is on the supervisors/operation managers not passing the info to all parties involved. So for example the LGA supervisor just called JFK tower with the info, and said ok we are good. The JFk supervisor hears they have an emergency but hasn't gotten any details and asks for the info to pass to the tower, without knowing it's been passed. I'm not asking the pilots for anything more than I need, which is where they are going, unless the supervisor is pressing me to get more info. It is usually the ones not working that can't keep this info passing along the chain, that causes them to distract the controller with asking again.
Did he really ask "you're still counting?"
Reason for go around ... "a light thingy came on" 😂😂😂
It's not a hydraulic leak. It must have been a cabin leak. They have started with 80 souls and now are down to 78
😂
Workload was insanely high for those pilots. Being asked 100000 times for souls on board, looking though the qrh to deal with the hydraulic issue, being vectored all over the place, setting up the fms for the diversion to JFK, and keeping a close eye on their fuel status. Can’t believe there are people out there pushing for single pilot ops 🤦♂️
No, the workload is NOT "insanely high." Do you really think the entire event transpired in 11 minutes? It didn't. The radio transmissions have been edited and time is compressed. The dead air is cut out because no one wants to sit staring at a computer screen with no audio and very little video. The entire event probably took 30-40 minutes minimum - so put a lot of dead air between the radio transmissions.
@@buckhorncortez All of this happened in a matter of 24 minutes. You can look back at FR24 data. I’m well aware they speed up the videos to capture only the transmissions. Still an insanely high workload for those pilots.
Not just that, but the first controller said they needed it to pass onto the next controller, then the next controller asks for it anyway.
And they got a different answer each time.
The first controller was not CPC I doubt. But, we also can't hear the full workload. My first thought is what is going on over there at N90 and LGA Local. 7110 says issue the go around instructions then obtain reason when able. This includes maybe another controller obtaining it. This is kinda why I wish we had the ability to text chat under certain circumstances though technically you could strip Mark some of this info.
Approach: BRICKYAAAAAARD 4717, New York Approach, are you up?
80... no, 79... no, 78... Maybe the controller was on to something when he asked "souls remaining."
Flight 209 now arriving at gate 8. Gate 9. Gate 10…Gate 13… gate 14… gate 15… gate 23… 24… 25…
@@RetiredEE I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
@@benwhite5734 🤣
I HAVE TO HAVE THE SOULS ON BOARD NOW TO PASS ALONG FOR YOU TO BE ASKED IT AGAIN
Apparently, someone bailed out 😅
Enough of this shizz bai
"Souls remaining...." 🙂
Well, the reported number got lower as time passed :D
Somebody just died from alcohol poisoning after taking a shot every time the words “Souls on board” was mentioned
At 5:58 the crew reported 79 souls on board. At 7:48 they reported 78 souls on board. Someone must have become impatient and got off the plane.
If your
parachute fits in the carry-on sizing rack, why not bring it!!
😂
@@msjdb723 Bah, the FA just correct her report to advise the pilot that her count had included one ginger...HE was dropped from the "souls" count!
@@Topesy13 That's why I exclusively fly DC-9, 717, and 727s, just in case I need to change my destination in flight :)
Can’t blame them. Prob a pilot with how many times they got ask for souls on board
I've listened to my share of these, and this one sounded a little disorganized all over. Lol
1:13 brick-yahd
It’s really funny how ATC asks what the problem is but often has no idea what said problem is or means
It's required information
It seems like every video involving US ATC involves the pilots having to repeat themselves 3-4 times when it comes to souls + FOB. If anyone at the NTSB reads this… It’s time to put pressure on the FAA to hammer this into controller’s minds. Seconds matter in an emergency.
Question from someone who has no idea how it works. Why does it take so long to get the souls on board number in an emergency? Isn't figuring out how many people are on-board after you board and close the gates pretty easy / what the FA's do / system would do based on how many boarding passes are scanned? Surely this number could be written down somewhere on the top of a check-list or something handy before take-off so it's ready to go in an emergency to pass on to the ATC. Sorry if it's not so easy ... just a thought from someone uneducated with how the flight deck works!
Well, in reality it really is not important information to relay to ATC when they're busy juggling running checklists / QRH, coordinating with their operations dept, talking with maintenance, talking with ATC, letting cabin crew know what's up, and of course flying the aircraft. Dropping a more important task to pull up the manifest just isn't that important and ultimately ATC doesn't do anything with that information anyway.
Now in an ideal world (and this happens) they'll let ATC know that information when they declare an emergency up front so they don't have to tie up the radio asking for it later but even then it's all but certain the next controller will ask them the exact same information again anyway.
Because there’s not much difference between 40 and 200 people. It’s a mass casualty incident either way and they are supposed to fly the plane
@@cruisinguy6024 I understand what you're saying for sure, but then why do we have videos like this one where ATC is pressing them 4 or 5 times for the number of souls on board if it isn't that important? Every single video of an emergency has ATC asking for fuel and souls on board so they can document that in their system or whatever they do on their end so it must have some importance (maybe not to the pilots at the time). But, if it procedure states that ATC must ask this then would it not be easier to spend 15 seconds to confirm this # before they even take off? Surely they could write this # down or have it ready to go and avoid scrambling to find it in an actual emergency, no? I just have seen so many videos of it being an issue or frustrating for the pilots who are doing like you said, a million other things and then being called multiple times for souls on board.
say souls remaining😓😓😓
I'm curious if "low pressure in hydraulic 2" is critical to a safe landing.
Not familiar with the type but generally it's a redundant system so not necessarily, but having it inop can change the way things behave so the go around was the right call while reviewing relevant details of how it impacts behavior of the different systems.
How many souls on board?
Jfc, rediculous.
Stand by.
@@blockbertusfuel remaining?
Souls on board and fuel remaining is not too much workload, if u can find the damned loadsheet, which tends to disappear for some reason. It is when they ask for endurance when u have to do mental maths that are a waste of brain power in such circumstances
I see no reason why souls on board cannot be declared when leaving the terminal. Take one thing off the list that the pilots are giving attention to in an emergency. I'm sure given a large enough sample size it would be a net gain in lives saved.
disclaimer: I'm just an armchair enthusiast. If you have reasons why this isn't logical, I would love to hear and understand.
How many times does the pilots have to say “stand by” for souls on board?!?! Geez!
and they even didn't pass that to the next controller
@@m24639297 Exactly. The first guy was so insistent that he had to have it to pass along. And then New York asked for it anyway. 🤦🏼♀️
@m24639297 I bet you he passed it along. They then went to another frequency after that, where it was asked again. So either LGA passed it back to their supervisor and told JFK they had the info and the supervisor at LGA didn't tell the supervisor at JFK that they had the info, so the supervisor at JFK asked for it, or it was controller to controller and controller 2 didn't pass to controller 3 the info. But, my money is on the supervisors/operation managers not passing the info to all parties involved. So for example the LGA supervisor just called JFK tower with the info, and said ok we are good. The JFk supervisor hears they have an emergency but hasn't gotten any details and asks for the info to pass to the tower, without knowing it's been passed. I'm not asking the pilots for anything more than I need, which is where they are going, unless the supervisor is pressing me to get more info. It is usually the ones not working that can't keep this info passing along the chain, that causes them to distract the controller with asking again.
Why the emergency? I hear that as per US regulation, mayday happens more in more circumstances than elsewhere
I just don't trust those jungle jets man...