MAYDAY. Loss of pressurization at 32000 feet. American B738 returns to Miami International. Real ATC
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
13-MAY-2023. An American Airlines Boeing 737-800 (B738), registration N848NN, performing flight AAL329 / AA329 from Miami International Airport, FL (USA) to New Orleans International Airport, LA (USA) was about 120 miles north-west of Miami at about 32000 feet when the crew declared MAYDAY and initiated emergency descend to 10000 feet. Later the pilots reported their intentions to return to Miami International Airport and reported loss of pressurization.
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#realatc #aviation #airtrafficcontrol
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Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 Initial climb
00:47 MAYDAY. American 329 starts rapid descent
03:29 American 329 requested return to Miami International Airport
06:35 The pilots contacted Approach controller
08:12 AAL329 contacted Tower controller
09:17 Landing
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THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
Clear example of why Mayday works. No confusion. Standby all aircraft, someone else has priority.
👍
Of absolutely of NO CONSEQUENCE. It would have been the same if he declared EMERGENCY AIRCRAFT EMERGENCY AIRCRAFT. You are making up a story and looking for problems for which there are none. There has never been a negative outcome because the pilot declared "emergency" instead of "Mayday". What a silly comment you made.
@@RLTtizME I see (and have always seen) Emergency and Mayday as equivalent, but I think Tilly Cat meant that clearly declaring your mayday/emergency is better than procrastinating it.
@@CharlesCornettFL Maybe or maybe not. There is great consternation that the terms Mayday and Pan Pan simply must be used for a variety of made up reasons when there are other words that get the message across with equal emphasis.
@@RLTtizMECalm yourself and try being more civil to people.
You’re wrong, by the way. There’s plenty of examples on the internet of pilots not using ‘mayday’, which caused confusion that had negative consequences to the outcome. It doesn’t take long to Google them.
The point is that ‘mayday’ is the international standard, written in all the guidelines. The intention being that the single same word is used by every pilot, therefore erasing the possibility of confusion or uncertainty. If everyone is using their own word - however obvious that word might be - it still has the potential to cause unnecessary delay and confusion by the people you are in contact with. I understand that of course in a stressful situation, people can forget for a moment what they should actually be doing, but it should be infrequently. If an ATC is working a heavy traffic area for example, there’s plenty of times there’ll be blocked mics or multiple communications at once. Everyone saying whatever, can easily get lost amongst that. But an ATC ahead their ears trained for that word ‘mayday’, meaning that if they hear that among the same confusion, it will still stand out above every other word.
Not only that, but ‘emergency’ can be used in several context. I can think of multiple comms videos recently posted where the word was used, but it didn’t mean that plane needed priority and to get straight on the ground.
Your urgency to berate another poster, meant that you didn’t slow down to think that there’s an actual official reason why ‘mayday’ was adopted and why people should avoid just using whatever pops into their head. No matter what the industry; not just aviation; instructions are made for a reason. That’s usually because mistakes were made before and lessons were learnt. And the point of everyone following the very same print is so that everyone is ‘singing from the same song book’ as it were. I re-iterate, this gratefully minimises and has the potential to completely remove communication that could cause delay and inevitably cost lives.
This is also a great example of why things that ought to work well, can come unstuck. You can have everyone following the rules and then someone comes along and decides they’re going to do their own thing - even though everyone else has always been doing the other thing - then guaranteed will blame any resulting consequence on everyone else but themselves. If people just did as they were told, there’d be no misunderstandings, no discrepancies and less misunderstanding. You talk about looking for a problem where there isn’t, when in actual fact you and the people who think like this, are the very problem that didn’t need to be created in the first place. It’s called ‘going rogue’ for a reason. And it’s unnecessary.
No need for you to shout at folk in capitals, just try having a civil conversation! 🙄
So frustrating that various ATC centers cannot pass along answers so that overworked emergency crews don't have to answer same question three times.
100%
Each atc person is on a different frequency talking to multiple planes. They don’t have the time to pass the answer when they can just clarify with the pilots again
@@equilibrium788 that's fair enough but then there is no use Centre or Approach asking those questions in the first place if they are not going to be relayed.... Pointless
@@rodneywallace2984 it is important if the plane crashes or if they need to prepare for a different procedure
All points raised are valid and should be used to improve in the air and on the ground. The SWA that uncontrolled engine failure with fatality. Flight asked for single channel do to complexity. United a 777 out SFO or LAX to Hawaii. Complete engine failure in the middle of the ocean. They were just about equal distant suitable facilities. They were lucky enough to have 3 on the Flight deck. They requested and received single channel
Very scary situation, we can hear the pressurisation alarm in the back, very good reaction for the pilots
👍👍👍🙂
@@YouCanSeeATC just for your information, you put the wrong description below the vidéo, you set UAL753 🙃
I'm glad they payed attention to that alarm, that other one didn't do that, they ignored that alarm even when them oxygen mask drop down over the passengers, them pilots didn't know about them oxygen mask dropping down in the back over the passengers, they all ended up passing out and dying since the pilots ignored that alarm then the aircraft just fly it's self for hours on auto pilot until it run out fuel and crashed.
@@a.h.s5152 if you’re referring to the Lear 35 crash. That was caused by dry ice, not a loss of pressurization
@@a.h.s5152 which “other one” are you referring to? If you mean Helios 522, they didn’t ignore the alarm, they confused it with the take off config alarm, which sounds identical
Dang, hearing that Master Caution alarm going off in the background is chilling.
The reason you could barely hear the pilot for a few transmissions is because they took the masks off and did not reset the mic off their masks back to their headsets. They realized this pretty quickly. Great job.
Only way to 'reset' the mic from mask to headset in a 737 is to re-stow the mask completely into the storage compartment, and that's a pain in the ass under the best of conditions.
@@Another64driver Nope! You only need to pull down on the “Reset/Test” tab.
@@Another64driveragreed but you can use the hand mic in the mean time. Top Tip. The headset will not work but the hand mic will.
@@Another64driverWrong.
Masks probably didn’t deploy because the cabin didn’t reach 14k’. The pilots can manually do it from the cockpit. Nice job crew….I fly this plane for the same carrier and hadn’t heard about this incident.
When the plane communicating with you has alarms going off I think its safe to say they're having a rough day.
Sincere thanks to all of those who have commented. Without your knowledge of aviation, I would have been left with no answers. I was a passenger on this plane, seated in the second to last row in the back. I heard the initial "pop" (if you will), followed by the rush of cold air previously described. There was notable distressful movement and audible gasps heard from the galley that spread quickly to the passengers. Terrifying. After our descent, to which Im guessing was at the 10k goal, a second ICE cold blast filled the plane, fogging the windows and I could se my breath. With no mask deployed, believe me it was somewhat comforting to see. The air was much more ferocious and four times as cold. Out of my depth, so a question question for the experts: Since the masks didn't deploy and the seepage (possibly) subtle allowing the plane to hold pressure, was this the moment we had lost all pressurization? Also, being so close to the compromised area as I, and the attendants were, were we more directly impacted by the loss of oxygen? The attendant quickly put on her mask. She told me afterwards she was having trouble breathing as was I. Could have been panic, possibly. Not sure. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Also, If any of my fellow passengers read this, I truly hope you are all well one week later. My heart is with you all.
The 2 pilots have their own masks in the cockpit which they were able to put on. The masks should have dropped in the back. If there was a hole of seepage of air in the cabin the the outside, that definitely would be the cause. The airplane has a system that keeps pressurized air in. The plane also can pressurize some air from the engines. BUT. They can’t produce enough air to account for even a small hole or crack. The airplane inside can be safely pressurized from ground level up to 10k feet. This has plenty oxygen and nothing uncomfortable. But when there’s a hole, the pressure in the cabin gets leaked, and the outside air and pressure with no oxygen comes in. You had trouble breathing because there’s no oxygen. Being so close to the incident may have had an impact in you or the FAs breathing more than others, but probably shouldn’t have as air moves and circulates quickly. Hopefully this answered a few questions… Let me know if you have any more. Praying for all passengers and hope nobody was negatively impacted.
You mean the oxygen mask didn't drop down on you all in the passenger cabin? They usually do, they have sensors in the unit that holds the oxygen mask in them that detects an cabin decompression, when it detects an cabin decompression it triggers it to drop them oxygen mask down over the passengers.
A rapid pressure drop causes an equally rapid temperature drop as you noticed, so that's indeed what you'd expect. At 10,000 ft there's enough ambient pressure to not require oxygen masks, which is why they descend to that altitude if there's a problem with pressurization. This also means that at that altitude the oxygen masks will not drop even if plane completely depressurizes, which it sounds like it did; the fact the oxygen masks never dropped simply means you were never in any danger of hypoxia. Trouble breathing might be due to cold or panic, not lack of pressure/oxygen (which wouldn't cause such a symptom in the first place, it would feel like you can breathe normally but you just get giddy/lightheaded/stupid and then pass out.)
@@Im_Wolfyy You've got quite a few things wrong. The "system" that keeps pressurized air in is just the fact that the airplane is a pressure vessel, though it always has leaks and also intentional openings (controllable by valves) since you _want_ air to constantly escape and be replaced by fresh air from the pressurization/airconditioning system, which can pump very large amounts of outside air into the cabin (typically using "bleed air", compressed outside air taken from one of the compressor stages of the engines). A small hole or crack is not going to result in loss of pressure, it would need to be fairly substantial. The air at high altitude is no different from the air at ground level, it just has low pressure. Up to 10k feet however the pressure is still sufficient to not require pressurization at all, you can just breathe the outside air there. At higher altitudes you may after a while start to get hypoxia because the "partial pressure" of oxygen (air pressure multiplied by the percentage of oxygen in air) gets too low; the lower the partial pressure, the faster you'd get symptoms. These symptoms however do not include "trouble breathing", you can breathe just fine, it's just not getting you enough oxygen, which doesn't really cause discomfort or distress, it just eventually incapacitates you. The feeling of "air hunger" you get when holding your breath is not caused by lack of oxygen but by build-up of carbon dioxide, which doesn't happen in a depressurization scenario since you continue to exhale carbon dioxide normally.
@@MatthijsvanDuin Very Informative. Thank you.
I will say that as a pilot myself, the constant questioning of things that have already been answered REALLY adds to your workload when in an emergency situation. In this case, ATC should've done a much better job at relaying information from the previous controller(s).
Say again…
American 329, not my job!
This one choked me up for some reason. I've only had a slow decompression at about 14k feet, (as cabin crew) that was scary enough with the masks dropping and the "emergency descent" PA. Very strange that the pax masks did not deploy on a 738 at 32k feet. I could hear the fear and panic in the pilots voice.
They got down fast. Good job.
I'd love to hear some cabin crew stories! What's some of the weirdest / scariest / funnest things that have happened?
Oxygen masks will only drop if cabin altitude reaches 14000ft, while the cabin altitude warning triggers at 10000ft.
I can see why it choked you up, as you said, there was genuine fear. Glad all are safe!
10.000ft cabin altitude = warning
15.000ft cabin altitude = masks drop if i remember correctly
Very concerning that the masks did not deploy in the back. The 737 is set up so cabin alt over 10K is a master caution, and over 14K is the alarm that we heard in the background. I'm interested to see what the investigators find related to that
The cabin altitude warning sounds above 10000ft. The masks auto deploy at 14000ft.
@@theHDRflightdeck is it literal altitude, or a specific pressure (or lack thereof) that triggers it? I thought I understood that they are held in place by pressure, so when it drops, there are no mechanical failures to prevent them falling.
@@CharlesCornettFL an electrical signal triggers each mask station. This signal is either generated automatically at 14000ft or by the PASS OXYGEN switch. It seems to me that the cabin altitude went above 10000ft but not above 14000ft and the crew decided not to manually deploy the masks.
Mayday was at 32500
@@theHDRflightdeck thank you for correcting me. I had that backwards, but you are right
Props to the pilots! How you folks do this is simply amazing. Mahalo for your service!
That was an exciting day. Packs fail you’ll get hot in a hurry inside. Best to get down and on the ground faster. Good choice to go to Mia. When they went off mask they didn’t switch the source off the mask for the mic. That’s not on a checklist.
Thank you for the information.
Not in a checklist but it is SOP.
Terrible controller handling the flight as they say may day.
@@EdOeuna I’m serious about it being an exciting time. As someone who has “been there done that” - the memory items in my plane are - oxrgen Don and 100%. Crew communication establish. (Switch the source switch to mask from boom). Emergency descent initiate. Something caused this so you have to run an EPC or QRH for it. When you get to get ti a breathable altitude you can take off the face sucker and talk again. At that point most forget ti switch the switch back to boom. It happens. They realized it eventually. That was the least of their problems.
Two packs on two independent separated pneumatic systems failing at the same time is highly unlikely plus there is air supply for pressurization from the APU [ Auxiliary Power Unit ]. Most likely a containment problem from loss of control of the outflow valve or a structural leak. Pressurization failures does not always lead to 10000 ft Decents unless they are uncontrollable, Use all resources different modes of operation and monitor the differential pressure, cabin altitude, and climb rate.
I am extremely grateful for all these professionals that make us travel and see our loved ones. God bless you all. Thank you ❤
Excellent display of protecting passengers and aircraft in a tense situation. As a regular flyer, I am very impressed and comforted by this.
Going back and looking at FR24, it looks like DL1588, N302DN, had to do a go-around. Other than that it looks like every other aircraft was on route. Great job everyone involved.
LOVE the animation. EXCELLENT presentation.
🙂Thank you.
I watched this video and ATC did a good job when AA329 suffered a serious accident of cabin depressurization. Although the crew did not report the intention after Shouting MAYDAY, the crew would have been busy at that time, such as executing various checklists and stabilizing the aircraft. But the intention of AA329 to be heard by the same frequency group is important for the ATC's next command. Even though AA329 says they're making an emergency descent to 10,000 feet. Later, ATC took the initiative to provide the weather conditions of the airport they were going to divert instead of waiting for the crew, so that the crew could decide whether to land at the diverted airport or return, that is, the crew had more time to make the decision whether to return or not. It would have been better if the crew had reported the intention directly after Shouting MAYDAY, but in that case it was normal not to report directly. For example just like MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY AA329 DIPRESSUREIZATION EMERGENCY DESCENT is better
It is interesting that the masks in the cabin did not deploy. We lost both packs in a A-320 years ago at FL350 and did a high-dive into KDSM. Our cabin masks, also, never deployed. What surprised me is that, while the captain was going through his drill of donning his O2 mask and initiating the descent, I noticed that the cabin altitude did not climb one single foot. In fact, I soon told the captain that he was going to have to slow his rate of descent, or else we would overtake the cabin altitude and run the risk of too great of a negative pressure situation. I ended up having to switch to manual pressurization and raising the cabin altitude first, then gradually lowing it in order to avoid landing with the cabin still pressurized. I had my O2 mask in my lap the whole time; I never had to put it on. It sure surprised me that the loss of both packs at the same time would not negatively affect the cabin pressure - at least on that particular airplane...
Nowadays the production technologies allow very low fuselage leakage, so loss of air inflow doesn't necessarily means the cabin altitude would rapidly increase to the extent that pax masks would drop.
Also, there are at least 2 independent means of negative pressure relief, as required by the regulations :)
Airbus
Loss of both packs doesn’t automatically lead to loss of cabin pressure. That’s why, on Boeing at least, the cabin pressure memory items ask to check cabin pressure and rate. Only perform the emergency descent if both are uncontrollable.
I was wondering that too. What I was also wondering is the configuration warning can be extinguished or if it keeps buzzing…forever.??
So I'm assuming when you trained for this scenario in the sim the cabin pressure shot through the roof? Was having the O2 mask in your lap some sort of alpha male thing? I literally despair at the absolute stupidity of this story, no offense, if this story is true, 1. who cares about negative pressure when the priority is getting the plane to 10k feet so the passengers in the back don't die. If the packs have failed, who is to say the pressure sensors were reliable. Fidding around with manual cabin pressures when there's an emergency relief valve; for you know, emergencies like you were supposedly in.
Honestly a lot of the information should’ve been transferred to the next controllers. Being asked the same question multiple times only increases an unnecessary work load for the pilots
This was painful to listen to. Center was way too eager to get his admin questions answered. The effing hazmat question can wait! Even with all the excess comms, they still didn't have the equipment ready by the time AA was on final.
Multiple handoffs, same questions. This is a *management failure*, and poor policy.
@@CharlesCornettFL that's American ATC in a nutshell
If hazmat was a concern to the captain and first officer I am confident they would have mentioned it early on
@@rozjones4097 It never hurts to ask, though.
Clearly overeager at a time flight crew was super busy and having difficult audio...
Great job crew.
Working for Allegheny, Usairways, American for 42yrs...This is why pilots
Make big bucks...Flashback to Sully 👍
Thx
Glad they landed safely.
99.99% of time a captain will ask for equipment if asked by the tower. The reason is if something goes wrong no one wants to be explaining a tape where they say "yeah I said don't have the equipment available". When I was a crew chief it was pretty much standard if asked I said yes.
American 329 “Did anybody hurl during the descent?”
Good one. 👍 That could apply to some of the officious commentary on YT.
There is usually at least one person on every airplane load of people who has breathing and respiration problems. Respiration distress is one of the reasons, flight attendants go up and down the isles with portable oxygen supplies during emergencies and seek out affected passengers who need assistance.
@@UA-cam.TOM.A It is a blended mix of oxygen and laughing gas to calm anxious passengers.
@@RLTtizME Good to know, I had the impression it was oxygen only, are you a flight attendant.? Do you guys really burn the cockpit crew meals on purpose?.
@@UA-cam.TOM.A No but we like to splash lav toilet water on the potatoes. It is so colorful and tasty too.
Every time I hear "Mayday" called out in these radio transmissions i immediately get the chills. One wrong move could be life or death.
I’ve been on that plane flying from MIA to DCA in 2019 - so insane
Pilot: *so busy he can't remember his callsign*
ATC: dId ThE mAsKs DePlOy
Management is the worst
SiLlY cOMmEnTaRy DePlOyEd.
The pilot not remembering his callsign could be really high workload, it could be inexperience or inability to handle stress. I wonder how busy they were. I'm not an expert, but I recently watched one of these on a SWA 737 that had a complete engine failure during climbout from PHX, and that crew was much more composed, calm, and communicative recovering their emergency than this one......and losing an engine is quite a bit more sketchy IMO. The SWA crew sounded like a couple of calm veterans executing a routine drill. These guys on this American flight sounded like they were on the ragged edge of full on panic......and there wasn't anything wrong with the engines or airframe, they just lost pressurization and needed to get down to 10kft with some O2 masks on. My impression is of a young, inexperienced crew and certainly not ex-warfighter Air Force pilots as many used to be. Would like to know the age, training, and flight experience this crew had vs. the SWA crew I mentioned. My money is on some new "shake and bake" pipeline pilots.
@@thekill2509 I think you have officially beaten this topic to a pulp.
@@thekill2509 An engine out isnt as sketchy IMHO. They would still have a good engine to fly on and thats all thats needed to limp home. That being said, when the air needed to stay alive is in question, thats when things get sketchy. Is the plane going to suffer a more severe decompression? Is the leak getting worse, will they break apart in the air? All questions that can start running throught your head, and when you're the one driving the bus with 125 people counting on you, that can be far more stressful. I believe your assumptions on a "shake and bake" crew is highly unwarranted. The plane landed safely, no injurys, not loss of life or aircraft. The old addage of "assume makes and ASS out of yoU and ME" rings true with you.
two days on...what caused the problem and has the aircraft returned to service?
Hearing that annunciator....chills.
There's a reason why it's aviate, navigate and THEN communicate. Pilots were doomed in workload and they were asked silly and already answered questions. Questionable controllers's work.
Agree. ATC was asking pointless questions. "What are your intentions?". Duh, to land as soon as we can.
@@user-sr9bi2uu8w lol you know nothing about atc/flying. He’s talking to a Miami tower and they asked to state intentions. And they wanted to go to fort myers originally not Miami. It’s why they ask these things. Atc doesn’t know they even need to land. There’s a process to these things. Don’t comment stupid things
@@equilibrium788when correcting people you should know what you are talking about, they did say their intentions immediately and later on they asked questions multiple times. That said we don't know how much time was trimmed between the different transmission.
@@user-sr9bi2uu8w ATC do need to check pilot consciousness - that they are getting the air supply (masks?) and watch out for contaminated air can cause issues. Hypoxia is obvious issue they must check on. The air bleed can have HazMat itself from the engine that can affect human judgment. The intention of route must be certain - they have slots they need to reschedule and also warn other aircraft of the routes and reroutes. They must be advance that info to the network. So it is justifiable. ATC did a great job. They asked a great set of questions about the masks dropping (or not) and cabin safety/communication. They also warned about Ft Myers weather. They asked about a heavy landing (with the fuel load). They warned about wake turbulence. So much they asked. Good conversations.
@@luschmiedt1071 they stated intentions and asked for fort myers before changing to Miami so yeah that’s why they asked. Atc doesn’t know if they need to land to begin with. Which is why they ask before declaring an emergency. Not a crazy concept. I’m a pilot btw
As a pilot, that cabin altitude alarm is always a hair raising thing to hear.
A better hair raising is video "stall boeing 717-200 / DC9".
@@vst9266 The 777 stalling out of jfk was also hair raising
Thank you for your service!
ATC was highly poor during this. Outside of the Mayday call, they kept stepping on the emergency aircraft with stupid questions that had already been answered and were not even remotely relevant. The masks failing to deploy is an issue though, at 32000 feet they should have done so automatically. But they got down quickly enough that the pax might have just had some sparklely vision and some shortness of breath.
Masks auto-deploy at about 14,000ft cabin altitude, so if the altitude didn’t get to 14,000ft then they would stay up. It appears that the system worked as designed, but that PM missed a memory item.
Loosing pressurization doesn't necessarily mean the passenger cabin got to the altitude that would automatically deploy the masks. It could have been a slow depressurization that the flight crew was able to get in front of with the decent. I suspect all automated systems worked as intended. It's a Boeing, after-all.
Nicely done by the crew and also nice managed. Yes memory items including deployment of the pax oxygen system manually if the cabin is out of control. But if the PM was able to control the cabin in manual mode and close the outflow valve. Then the memory item stops there.
IF the cabin is uncontrollable PASS SIGNS…ON,
PAX OXYGEN SWITCH…ON
Go to the Emergency Descent checklist…….
(REF.QRH)
Very poor situational awareness of the ATC if the timeline holds. Machinegunning the poor crew with questions not necessary before your mayday is over. In the end the commander can decide what he deems necessary for the safety of the airplane and passengers. That includes NOT deploying the Passenger oxygen masks.
(If you have an engine acting up. He(she) may also choose NOT to shut it down and just keep it idling”ref.FCTM and QRH”)
I have extreme anxiety just waiting for responses! 😟
How long does the the cabin pressure take to get equal to outside pressure when pressurization stops?
If it’s not explosive decompression it can’t happen right away. Right?
No, but there's no way of predicting one way or another. A small leak can easily become a huge gaping leak in no time at all. If you have any notable loss in pressurization, then you have to assume the worst and lose altitude as quickly as possible (within safe operating parameters of course).
Regarding pressurization in this scenaio, is cabin pressure different from cockpit pressure? Was the 737 cockpit door pressurized to protect the Cap & FO?
No difference. Some of the other comments seem reasonable. There was a slow leak (for lack of better term) that triggered a cockpit alarm but the cabin altitude hadn’t risen enough to trigger masks. The flight crew initiated the emergency descent immediately.
What is it with the recent American Airlines flights between these two cities?
There's this flight that resulted in an emergency declaration (loss of pressurization) and return to Miami and the more recent flight from New Orleans to Miami that resulted in an emergency declaration (fuel leak) and return to New Orleans.
Another fine example of controllers not being able to STFU when working an emergency. It couldn't have been clearer that the pilot on the radio was in task saturation, and really needed to concentrate on the flight deck instead of the controllers *asking the same questions over and over again*. How about we let them fly the plane, and only ask for what we need to do our jobs (separate from other traffic). Let the pros in the cockpit analyze, consult with company, brief passengers, make a plan to mitigate *their* emergency. It's not unlike issues that LEO's have when faced with a chase. You spend your career getting rehearsed on fake emergencies, but only face real ones occasionally. All of your adrenaline kicks in, but the best response is "cleared as requested, let me know if you need more". All of the ancillary information (hazmat, overweight, souls, equipment, hold area, high speed etc etc.) will come out after things calm down. I have zero understanding of why dropping masks might be so important to ATC that they asked several times about it. I also don't understand how details were clearly not being shared to the next sector, starting the question parade all over again.
To know if you need 50 ambulances or none.
I wish "delay, aviating" could be standardized as a responce for that
@@HappyPenguin75034 do you think if there was a need for 50 ambulances, the pilots might find it important to mention it? That's as opposed to being badgered for answers because the controller has a tie with a clipboard badgering him to get the answer for his form?
Knowing how many ambulances you need is a job for that cabin crew after they’ve levelled off at or below 10,000ft and they are able to take stock of the situation in the cabin. That’s also the time to extract information from the pilots, not whilst the rapid descent is ongoing.
@@EdOeuna agreed, and all that information is readily available through company as well. The "souls" question is a throwback to the days of calling in flight plans and teletypes.
Stuff like this gets me emotional.
altruist
Just because the pressurization 'failed' doesn't mean the cabin altitude rose above 14500'. There would be residual pressure and the outflow valves would probably be closed. They would be down to below 12,000' in less than 4 minutes which is sufficient. If it was an explosive decompression, they would probably have said so the pax masks would have dropped but, it didn't sound like they had their masks on initially which you would do or you would be unconscious and so would the passengers. Interesting... good old Boeing eh? LOL
That alarm you hear in the back ground means that the pressurization has failed. At 32000ft that should have triggered the masks to deploy automatically.
@@ImpendingJoker a dual pack failure doesn’t mean the cabin alt instantly goes to the planes alt. This wasn’t a rapid decompression
Was this a Max plane?
@@AlphaOmegaByzantium irrelevant
The controller was more nervous than the pilots. The pilot said, "Descending 10,000, we need to head back to Miami" and the controller responds with "say intentions" (as if altitude and desired destination were not clear enough). And then he gave heading of 230 degrees, the reciprocal of the actual intended heading of 050. And then all the repeated questions. He might be in for some uncheduled recurrent training.
You seem more nervous than the controller. You might consider some unscheduled yoga.
I don't think the controller heard/understood.
@@RLTtizME Yaaaawwwwwnnnn. That was not even funny. Try again.
@@coriscotupi I thought it wasn't too bad Corsette. You are a little nervous.
@@RLTtizME Not nervous at all. Drinking a refreshing soda by the pool. You just weren't funny, that doesn't make me nervous. It might make _you,_ though.
i think crew forgot to reset the oxygen mask mic there. glad they landed safely
What would the impact be on a potential rescue if the passenger masks had deployed? I’m assuming something to do perhaps with an oxygenated environment
Basically nil. There is only about 15 minutes of passenger oxygen on board - you only need enough to get down to 10,000 feet where normal respiration can occur. Any more oxygen than that is just unnecessary weight (for the container, not the 02 itself) and, of course, a potential safety hazard.
OMG😮
Man, I just watched a video on Helios 522 yesterday and then seeing this has got me all shook up.
So what was the cause? Did they ever find out?
I'm guessing "overweight landing" refers to not using the expected amount of fuel before landing because you had to land earlier...?
Not one news article online about this flight.
Seems like the channel got the scoop here. Pretty cool. Nowadays that's tough to do!
what checklists do they run? is their a potential solution where they could continue the flight?
There is various checklists they can run. Im not sure which one they would run but the flight would not be able to continue. They lost pressurization. Regardless they have to terminate the flight even if they rectify it. I do find it interesting the masks in the cabin did not deploy. If I'm not mistaken the alarm you heard should go off at cabin altitude above 12000ft. Hope that answers your question.
Good job but think pilots should of landed immediately at RSW as intended initially regardless of circumstances get the plane on the ground not reroute the atc said weather was south of the field why chance it
Well done on both ends
What does GRITT mean? Thanks in advance :)
FIX on the route. Kind of aeronautical point on the route if to speak simple.
I find it interesting that there's so little communication between everybody during a Mayday. It's natural to second guess yourself in a situation like that when you're asked the same questions that you know you answered etc., these guys don't know if there's a hole in the side or what the heck's happening, they're literally saving lives as far as they're concerned.....That all being said, it was successful and safe. People never have a clue how disciplined and laser focused these crews are.
It's poor communication with ATC. The controller should have a supervisor come over (who should be in the area regardless), he relays what he knows to the supervisor and the supervisor is then responsible to get the information out to the next area who will be receiving the ac in their airspace. That's procedure. That way you eliminate asking the crew who is busy the same questions and eliminates frequency congestion. Also, if you know the crew is busy with a pressurization problem, leave them alone till 10,000 or below. You still have plenty of time to get all the information you need. It turned out well, but poor coordination on ATC part. Just the opinion of a controller/supervisor with 37 years experience.
@@kjay5056 they did pass on some information, they didn't have to ask souls on board and fuel remaining again. The crew, understandably so, was sporadic in their responses too, so the repeated questions might have been making sure they got the same answer from the crew. But I will defer to you because you have way more experience in this than mine, which is none.
1) Aviate
2) Navigate
3) Communicate
Those are the priorities, and in that order. The pilots have MUCH to do in the case of an emergency and ATC's curiosity about their situation is far less important than assessing the issue(s) with the aircraft, going through the checklists, identifying diversion airport, etc.
Was the horn early in the recording a cabin altitude warning?
No. Depressurization warning.
When an aircraft loses pressurization, the cabin exceeds a safe altitude and the cabin altitude audible warning sounds.
Tense
From the flight path it appears that they were quite far away from Miami. They chose not to go to Ft Myers for weather reasons. But, I imagine they had other airports that were closer like Tampa?
Tampa or Sarasota were about as far at that point.
Not to mention that once below 10k and in a stable condition. MIA is a hub for AAL and has the maintenance facilities they would need for the aircraft. TPA & SRQ don't.
Ft. Myers had bad weather. Dunno about you, but if I was flying an aircraft experiencing pressurization issues the last thing I would want to do is fly through thunderstorms.
Why in this day of information overload would a controller need to ask souls, hazmat and fuel onboard? You would think this information would be readily available and definitely not needed immediately when the aircraft is over 100 miles out from MIA. Then the information was not passed along to the next controller.....why?
This is pretty standard in emergency situations. You are likely going to see the same thing in hospitals or when dealing with first responders (e.g. fire department).
In stressful situations, it is common for people to filter out "unimportant details" and this is even more true if we are dealing with oxygen deprivation. Unfortunately, what our brain declares to be unimportant could actually be quite critical (e.g. passengers suffering from hypoxia this very moment). So, emergency personnel always ask. You can't rely on the pilots to volunteer any of these details if they are impaired. And in this recording, you can quite clearly tell that the pilots were overwhelmed. They forgot to follow up with ATC and they mixed up their own call sign several times.
It was noteworthy that ATC gave them more detailed and unambiguous instructions than what you'd normally hear on the radio. Lots of redundantly repeated information. I am sure this was very intentional.
As to your other question, in an emergency, you don't rely on previous information collected by other parties. It's always possible that it wasn't passed on correctly. The cost of asking again is cheap, but the consequences of forgetting to pass on information is potentially fatal. Of course, you still pass on information where possible and if there is a conflict between older and more recent records, that would cause you to follow up. It could be a clerical error, it could be a genuine change in conditions, or it could be an indication that the pilots are impaired or incapacitated.
A lot of these things sound ridiculous when you observe them. But it's all for good reason. Also, these type of videos are confusing, as silence is trimmed. So, it sounds as if ATC was constantly going on about the same thing. In reality, there probably were significant gaps.
@@gutschke - pilots were on oxygen so they weren’t overwhelmed by hypoxia, just by workload. All the POB stuff can wait until they’ve finished the descent and are safely below 10,000ft.
That information needs to be confirmed. Any slight changes in weight can have devistating consequences if not accounted for when planning approaches, etc. Fuel on board and overweight status must be verified because it cana affect descent and landing, and the aircraft is only rated to land within a specific range of weights. If it's overweight there is potential for catastrophic failure including the aircraft breaking apart on landing due to the excess forces created at that time, causing loss of life and property. Overweight landings are very dangerous in a number of cases. Some are ok if it's not too far above and if other measures can be taken, but the potential for the collapse of landing gear is high resulting in the aircraft slamming into the ground which as you can imagine is not what anyone wants. The further out this information is know the more can be planned including burning off excess fuel to reduce weight. Burning off fuel isn't instant. Think about how long of a flight it is. The amount of time it takes to get to that destination is going to take alot of fuel. Fuel is heavy. You can't just turn a plane around and instantly land in many cases. :)
@@Ibuddy66 Yeah, not only possible damage to the landing gear, but the possibility of a greatly extended rollout and possible excursion. None of these things make for a great day.
Flight idle, speed brakes and DIVE.
Sex therapist?
Great idea. Because we know that nothing dangerous could have caused the depressurization and the plane is really a fighter jet in airliner livery.
I bet those passengers got a ride they weren't expecting, an emergency decent, particularly while in the passenger cabin i am sure can feel scary!
This is also a prime example of why if you have a serious emergency to use mayday, it gets everyone's attention.
It’s not that exciting they likely didn’t know
@@cullery07 A hard turn combined with a rapid descent due to loss of pressurization would absolutely be noticed be the passengers & crew. They were climbing before all of this happened.
@@kevinb6745 that’s not how we conduct emergency descents. Would they notice they’re descending. Ya probably. Would they be able to tell the difference most likely not. Idle thrust and speed brakes nothing special that happens normally.
As a passenger on this plane, we absolutely noticed. There was a rapid cold blast of air, ears popping, descending, and the plane felt like it was flying differently - which I was later told by a passenger that it was the pilot turning off auto pilot and flying the plane himself. Also, flight attendants where very distressed and one began walking up and down the aisle with an oxygen mask.
@@emilybellaci exactly. Thanks for that first-hand perspective; that’s what I figured. Glad y’all made it to the airport safely without incident 🙏🏾
Cause ??
Hearing the alarm in the background…that’s gotta be scary. There really should be a better way for atc to capture souls onboard and fuel. Such a distraction for pilots. As much automation that’s been developed but that is still something pilots have to verbally convey to atc.
The souls on board can change at the very last second before door closure. As a non-revenue passenger, I've had a gate agent rush me on to the plane as a seat suddenly became available - no seat assignment in the computer and no scanning of my pass at boarding, just "hurry and get on so we can leave!" It's in those sorts of situations where automated passenger counts available to A.T.C. through some computer access will be inaccurate. The flight crew always has the accurate count.
@@df446 ok that’s an exception and hardly the norm. Most importantly, how relevant & crucial to the emergency is knowing of that 1 extra passenger? 🤔
@@df446 Ok but realistically, the number itself isn't crucial if it's off by 1 or 2. _Who_ is on the plane becomes very important later on if there's a catastrophe but that's separate data from the total number. The reason they even ask is for emergency response which is the same whether it's 250 or 251. On a small aircraft the difference between say 2 and 3 would be significant for responders. This isn't.
@@sfmc98 umm if the aircraft crashes or has to evacuate on the ground it’s imperative to know how many people were on the aircraft. Why do so many of you who don’t know what you are talking about love to come out of the woodwork and comment on these videos?
@@RM-bl1wi Ummm if an aircraft crashes onto the ground into thousands of parts along with disarticulated body parts and catches fire, the primary concern isn't EXACTLY how many people are on board.
They will need to know WHO was on the aircraft and they'll get that from the manifest, which includes the number. The number is important but again, being off by 1 or 2 on a large aircraft isn't actually going to change anything. They need to know what emergency resources are necessary, and that isn't changed by one or two passengers among hundreds.
video description is incorrect
My mistake. It is correct now.
As usual...
Not the most efficient ATC but they did their work the best they could. AAL crew was tense and with many task to do. Good work has been done.
I'm just a layman but I think it would be better if ATC didn't call up and ask for the Souls on Board and fuel remaining but it was part of the mayday call and in a standard abbreviated format. For example:
"AMERICAN 1-2-3 Mayday Mayday Mayday. Loss of cabin pressure, descending to ten thousand."
"AMERICAN 1-2-3 Our S-F is 1-8-0 and 3 hours"
The ATC saying it doesn’t matter does not mean a life lost doesn’t matter. He definitely feels for her and doesn’t want to increase her emotions he wants to land and save the rest of the people
Something many folks may not realize is that, in the event of a cabin depressurization, the worry isn't about the depressurization itself (no one is going to suffocate) but that the airframe may be structurally compromised and that the depressurization is a symptom of a much larger and more dangerous issue. This may or may not have contributed to the pilot's decision to return to Miami, which had better weather than the initial airport he had mentioned diverting to, since thunderstorms can cause turbulence which could possibly put added strain on the aircraft.
You have around a minute before you lose consciousness at 30.000 feet with no mask. So yes, you can absolutely suffocate.
no idea what you are babbling about lmao
@@chocolatecoveredgummybears I'm sure you don't. Perhaps you should come back when you have a clue.
@@chuckschillingvideos read the guy above though no idea what u mean
@@happygillmor Going unconscious is not the same as suffocation. You will regain consciousness long before you hit the ground. Sheesh.
American 329 can you tell me the pilots first name, his dogs favourite food and what the the last film you saw ?
i recreated this on flight sim crazy shit
can boeing make a good plane
Ahhh yea the dreaded cabin altitude horn
Why is the deployment of the masks in the back relevant to the controllers or perhaps the rescue crews they relay the information to?
So they can decide if they need to deploy ambulances for passengers/crew potentially having breathing difficulties
video description is incorrect, it is not for this flight
Why did they do all the way back and didn't land on the closest airport?
Weather
Didn’t need to.
Runway has to be long enough, weather, etc
@@saxmanb777 pilot's discretion
Out of curiosity was anyone injured by this ?
Why does the controller need to ask 3 times “say intentions” even after the flight asks for Miami first, then Ft Myers, ?
They need to know what the pilots want to do??
"souls and passengers on board"???? I'm pretty sure those are 2 in the same.
Depends on if they are Republican or Democrat.
All a bit shambolic. The human factors people will have a field day with this afterwards.
Why not go to TPA? Unless rain was a line from Ft Meyers to TPA.
Hypoxic passengers is no good
They have souls on board at the check-in gate. They need to ask in case someone pulled a D.B. Cooper?
The actual souls can change from the manifest at the last minute.
No they don’t
Why are all people panicking? It's an issue, but somewhat of normal business. There's zero danger if everyone follows the procedures.
Why back to MIA though?
The explain in the video. Weather
mask in cabin did not deployed 😵💫glad they get down in time...
The cabin altitude most probably didn't reach the threshold.
@@HapyLLIuTeJIb Ya, good they reacted quickly, otherwise will hear screaming at the back lol
@@ybing Or they just pass out
@@ybing that wasn't exactly "emergency descent". 32k to 10k in more than 5 minutes.
@@HapyLLIuTeJIb yep, i think is the pressurization not holding up so they have time to descent slowly, probably no one at the back noticed
is souls and board and fuel remaining that urgently needed that it needs to be asked every 60 seconds while the pilots are trying to descent... geez
It is routine for an emergency.
Just like the simulator
I’m sorry I’m new to this content… the map is not accurate right? He didn’t fly across the continental United States in that time frame
This is a map of Florida lol
The pilot sounded scared. That is not a composed pilot.
5:34 "Did the masks deploy in the cabin area?" and then again at 6:30 and at 7:00. Why would ATC ask that question - surely it's irrelevant to the objective of getting the plane safely to the airport and back on the ground ?
this is scare, my cat is sad
Acil durumları canligercek olmayanları panoya yansıtmayan gerceksede panik yapmayınız neden zaten zamanlar önemlidir.
Does anyone knows why the ATC asked if the masks were deployed?
They need to know that as it may require ambulances to be deployed
Strange, no mask drop at 32000ft.
First you have positive depressurization with the horn going off . You have an airport less than 30 miles out but no were going to criss cross the state because of mod precep UMM NO you land at the closest as pressurization could just be the beginning of multiple failures to come and the aircraft could have handled that weather just fine. Sorry it’s a BAD CALL and why the masks didn’t drop is another issue . Imagine if this was a significant pressure drop and no masks drop you would have have 124 lost as you foul around going back across the entire state .
Does anybody know why ATC asking about the mask deployment in the cabin?????
Because they need to notify ambulance crews of possible oxygen deprivation
It doesnt amaze me that American 737 800s are trashed
as an ATC, I can just say that the controllers were asking too many questions and used too many transmissions to already very busy crew
ATC was giving too much info and used way too much fluff.
CUT OUT THE NONSENSE. CLEAR DIRECT INSTRUCTIONS. None of this. turn 050 but should be x y z and this and that and maybe this. Just "TURN 050".
You should work and train atc people
Controller said souls and passenger because he knows Gingers are among us.