I no longer agonize over this topic. It will be what it is going to be. Focus on your walk with God; faithfulness is the requirement no matter the circumstance.
Doesn't matter whether your pre Trib, mid Trib or post Trib. Nothing will happen to Believers that is apart from God's Will. We can rejoice in this knowledge.
I'm hoping for a pre-trib rapture, but preparing for tribulation. I am unable to fully commit to either argument, I think there is merit to both. Either way, my eternal salvation is secure, but I'm doing what I can to prepare for hard times. Glory be to God.
I praise God that my salvation isn't dependent on my belief in a theory, but on the fact that Jesus Christ took my sins away ON THE CROSS! I am born again, washed in His shed blood, and I will meet Him one day. The timing of that day, only God knows. Spread the Gospel to all and pray that His harvest will be plentiful.
The timing of Christ's 2nd coming is clearly revealed in the Scriptures: Jesus called it , "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54). Daniel called it, "The End of the Days", and reported a blessing for those who will be alive, 1335 days after the daily sacrifices have been terminated (Dan 12:13), in a temple not yet built. This event-driven, variable-method of prediction is similar to how Daniel also revealed the time of Christ's triumphant entry into Jerusalem. However, like before Christ's first coming, religious leaders argue among themselves, because some want to believe what they want to believe, despite being contradicted by holy, God-breathed, inerrant Scripture (2Tim 3:16).
Grumpy Grandma , You better be willing to endure the Great Tribulation if your Physical Body does not die before then , because there is no such thing as a return of Jesus Christ before the Great Tribulation . That is not going to happen . Jesus said He that endured unto the end , the same shall be saved
I used to be Catholic so I was post tribulation, since leaving the catholic church I've started taking the Bible literally, and am now pre tribulation. I'll give just a few reasons why, first Christ Himself told us to pray that we were counted worthy to escape all these things Luke 21:36. 2nd the doctrine of imminence, this was a big one for me. All through the New Testament it tells us that Christ comes as a thief in the night He could come at anytime, after the desecration of abomination we Could mark on a calendar when Christ will return this is in the old and new testament. This is like the last one Christ comes as a thief in the night but also as the lighting flashes from east to west every eye will see Him this sounds like two separate events. There are many many more examples I'd recommend Chuck missler study on this it's very well done. Post-trib is catholic doctrine and didn't exist until the late 6th century, the early church was expecting to be ruptured before the tribulation
John 16 vs 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. John 15 vs 20 "Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;" Revelation 20 vs 4 and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 1 Thessalonians 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Christians (followers of Jesus) have been killed for thousands of years, starting with John the Baptist, so how then can Jesus save everyone from going through tribulation when they have already gone through it!?
Were the Israelites appointed to the wrath, No. They saw it but were protected through it. So it will be. The entire concept that the rapture happens before the trib cannot be correct. Not appointed to wrath means God's wrath. the first 3.5 years is man's wrath against believers, not God's. So at the very least, you should be mid-trib, if not post trib
I love listening to different perspectives on Biblical matters among Christians! It just shows how finite we are compared to a great God we have. The important thing is to be ready and prepared to meet the Lord Jesus Christ, which involves being united in love.🙏🙂
I’m 75 now, and wisdom comes with age! I’ve been living the life of Job since Oct 11/ 2001. God hasn’t forsaken me and is ever present with me. If in faith I quote scripture, He follows it with signs and wonders. God took my drivers license from me in 2002 for not wearing a seat belt ticket. I Praise God, as I have learned, the LORD gives and the LORD takes away, Blessed be the name of the LORD, He’s God, I Am not! He has a right to do as He pleases, though I have suffered much, I know He will some day, just like Job, give me double everything Satan has stolen from me. I know He will, because I have confessed it in faith, knowing God honors His word (which Jesus is!) When God chosen, I will receive, just like Job, houses and lands and cars and everything Satan stole, as Gods word is true. I will wait until my change comes and until then, I must Praise God, who is LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, Almighty God is He. Jesus is, according to Isaiah, the Everlasting Father, as well as the Prince of Peace. Praise God forevermore! Amen. Love in Christ Jesus, Bill
Guys, Here is our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
The Bible plainly teaches that when the trumpet sounds the dead in Christ will rise first then His Church will rise to meet Him in the air! Jesus then returns 7 years later to the Mount of Olives to set up His Kingdom. I am going up in the Rapture because we are not appointed to Gods Wrath! Praise God!
Yes, Luis, you will care very much when it is. If it were during or after the tribulation, if you lived, you would be experiencing literal hell on earth. Anyone who pretends that doesn't matter to them is either ignorant or lying.
Guys, Here is our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Okenshield69 I see and understand Luis through a different set of eyes. Meaning: personally ( through JESUS) I do not fear, DEATH, nor CATASTROPHIC global events wheather such events be before or after seal 6.. [ It appears ] most Christians are afraid of dealing with 'normal' daily trials, so to think they will have to deal will such event as seal 6 and thereafter. Welllll ! The NAVY SEALS never look forward to a battle never-the-less he prepare his WHOLE body and mind for the worst of battles even if he die.
Do you want to go through 7 years of hell on earth. The last 3.5 the worst. The tribulation is for Jewish people and not Christians. These guys are clueless
God has always delivered His believers before judgement. The main problem if you don't believe in the pre- tribulation rapture is that you will be left behind with the rest of the unbelievers.
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world “to test”those who live on the earth “____Revelation 3:10
Post-trib has always been plainly clear to me. It’s hard for me to see how others can’t see that, but I think people tend to believe what feels good to them rather than what the text plainly says. Sometimes truth is hard to swallow. Also, I think people confuse tribulation with wrath. In my understanding, the tribulation is the difficult time leading up to Christ’s return when we experience the mark of the beast, antichrist, etc but clearly after the tribulation when we are raptured, God will destroy all evil and pour out His wrath which we will not experience. His wrath is not meant for us, but tribulation and wrath are different from what I can see unless I’m missing something. I’ve enjoyed your videos and am trying to understand amillenialism. My hangup with it is Rev 20 says the first resurrection consists of those who didn’t take the mark of the beast, but the mark of the beast doesn’t happen until time of tribulation so how can first resurrection be our initial salvation? Would love any insight you have on this. Also, I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where it says something about 7 yrs of tribulation. Can you help me understand why people say 7 years?
@@georgeo785 Bravo George, these people frustrate me because they are not very detail oriented. They not only butcher the proper division, but it leads to the improper application of "...hold fast which is good". I wish these people would humble themselves and let Dr. Ruckman and Dr Gene Kim teach them step by step.
I agree with previous comment, they seem to be trying to divide.... Shame I hope no one believes that crap! Jesus coming very soon, pls repent & change ways 🙏
The pretrib is a lie from hell. The scripture clearly states its after the tribulation of those days. It clearly states that it will not come til the falling away (apostasy) and revealing of antichrist and abomination. It clearly states last Trump. (Only one) Besides the Bible, you rapture guys will be among the starving and confused and unprepared as the tribulation hits. It's at the door. And yall haven't prepared. Cause you think we're whisped away
This request by the Lord could extend to refusing any rapture ever. You use it to limit it to refusal of the pre-trib rapture, but you cannot do that. Jesus doesn't limit it. Mindless people have long used this verse to deny the pre-trib rapture. It's not your fault, you learned it from false teachers.
I lived in the days of the labor pains. They were getting closer and the feeling of darkness was closing in. The fear and upset was gripping me tight. I could not take it anymore and humbled myself in worship at the alter. I was changed. I was already saved many years but this time I knew I had to get rid of every last bit of darkness in my heart. No more lies not even white ones as they feel wrong and dark. God loves the truth and there is nothing to be ashamed of and I no longer have any intentions that are not motivated by unconditional love that is bigger than my own. He does this for me. I have no more anxiety or fear. I have joy unspeakable and I have discernment. I have empathy for anyone separated by sin because I know they suffer. I can not stand to see a person suffer or to even hear about it but It compels me to help wherever I can. I am compelled to share the gospel in an encouraging way that people can relate to. They can relate to the heart in their hearts and we can reach them only with Christs love. Matthew 22 34 to 40. I was baptized in fire. The old self dead and it was is if it came unexpectedly as If I was raptured. The change is extreme. I was even physically healed. I carry an ability to encourage people and leave them grinning ear to ear in love with the Lord as they experience the Lords Spirit. I dreamed about this many time in my life and now I live it wondering what miracle I will see or be part of next. So much has happened so quickly. My relationships have been healed. Some even delivered. Some manifest when I am with them. Some can not look me in the eye anymore. Some are delivered easily, Some not and it takes prayer and fasting and Gods help to reach their hearts. Go forth and expect more than what you expect from yourself if you are a child of God. He has so much more for you.
Please pray for me. I need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone near me that is, so no one to lay hands on me to pray in the Spirit. I have spinal cord damage that left me a paraplegic. Please pray for healing as well. Thank you in advance!
@@elainewat2607 JESUS HEALED YOU elaine. only believe. do not listen to your body.believe what GOD did for you. Salvation and healing are on the basis of faith in what GOD has already done for us through Jesus Christ. then our fresh and anything else will have to obey their creator. for you and me is to believe HIM.THE REST IS hIS. GLORY
@@elainewat2607 Closely follow the ministry of Joni Eareckson Tada, one of the most Godly, on-fire-for-Jesus women of our times... Despite also being paraplegic she has a huge ministry blessing many people, & walks very closely with Jesus. You can find many of her videos on You Tube. They are a huge blessing.
My faith is in the pre tribulation….. 🙌🏾 come Lord, come! I’m not sure why anyone would think that the church/bride of Christ would have to go through that horrible 7 year timeframe. It’s Jacobs trouble, not ours!
Well you could read the Bible and see we are PROMISED tribulation. Just look at the tell MILLIONS of Christians who have been imprisoned tortured and killed for their faith. The Bible is clear, the dead rise first THEN we who are alive and remain will be taken up. The Bible is also clear when the FIRST resurrection takes place, it's near the end of the trubulation. Rev 20
Yes. Tribulation that Jesus said we will all face is not the 7 year period of the great tribulation. I just taught Old Testament Prophets in a Bible Institute. It is very obvious that there are promises and covenants given to Israel not yet fulfilled. Jacob is not the church.
The 144,000 of Revelation 7:4 through 8 are the Jews. Those mentioned from verse 9 and forward ("after these things...) are not the Jews ("a great multitude which no one could count from every nation and tribes and peoples and tongues...") ("these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..."). It's plain to see for those with opened eyes and not preconceived notions not based on scripture.
“I pray *not* that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest *keep* them from the evil.” “But all these things *will they do unto you for my name's sake* because they know not him that sent me.” {John 15:20-21} And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. {Acts 5:41}
Regardless of which way a Christian falls on this subject, we are so impressed at the respect the three people here showed for each other. We need more talks like this. Respecting another's interpretation and not shouting down a fellow Christian for believing a different way. We congratulate you on this lively teaching and debate!
Once you know the truth, you should not respect lies... It's much like "Debating" the Sabbath... There is ONE TRUE GOD ordained 7th Day Sabbath and there is the others illegitimately created by men... Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit...
@@bawbjusbawb6471 When you start to distinguish between what is truly, truly divine and what is man-made; when you can distinguish between what is "of the world" and what is "NOT of the word" (See John 17 and John 8 for example), then you start to see rightly and the TRUTH will set you free from slavery to man-made doctrines and traditions of organized religion.
And if you are truly saved Yahweh will keep, protect you through the great tribulation. Just like he did Noah and Lot. He protected them through it all.
@@EBRoyJr .... he not only saved and protected Noah "through" the flood, but God also protected all the Hebrews through the plagues God put on the Egyptians through Moses. If you noticed, not one of the plagues touched even one Hebrew, only the Egyptians. It will be the same way through the Great Tribulation.
I agree with you brother. If a person is saved and it turns out to be a pre-trib rapture, then we will "all" go then the rapture happens. If it turns out to be a post-trib rapture, then we will all go through the Great Tribulation and we will all go in the rapture when it happens. NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. This is man's superstition used upon the people to make them think that this is a punishment from God that they will be left behind and not get to go in the rapture if you refuse to believe that it is a pre-trib rapture. If you remember, when Jesus was talking to the Sanhedrin, the Religious Leaders, he said you will not enter in and you keep the people from entering in.
Folks... the word of God says that even Jesus does not know the day or hour of his return. Only God the Father knows. The word also gives warning to AVOID endless debates and genealogies that will lead you from the Truth. Study to show thyself approved, people. Jesus is the Way, Truth, and the Life. Jesus, the fall of man, and salvation can be found in Gen 1:1 and all throughout the Old and New Testament can be found the central core of God's word; Jesus. Focus on becoming more than a believer in Christ. Become a true disciple and FOLLOW Jesus. Keep his commandments. Today is full of enough of its own troubles. Don't worry about tomorrow. Jesus IS the Word of God. Jesus is where our focus should be and remember, tomorrow is not promised so make each step Today be steps that glorify God. 💪✝️❤️🕊
Jesus told us He is going to prepare a place for us and will return to take us to be with Him. Then we return to Earth after the 7 year tribulation. When we are caught up at the rapture, each one of us stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat judgment, then we receive our eternal, resurrected bodies, celebrate the marriage of the Lamb, then return with Jesus to rule with Him at the New Jerusalem for the Millennial Reign. Praise Jesus. Thank You Jesus. Maranatha Jesus.
A few points I would like to make. He says 14:36 into the video that the saved are left behind to meet Jesus while the evil people are swept away. He is possibly confusing this with the sheep and goat judgement at the end of the Great Trib but the fact that he does not refer to the sheep and goat judgement indicates to me he has not thought of it. Regarding Noah in the boat, this is my interpretation: Eight people (8=New Beginning) got IN TO a boat, an enclosure, a place of safety, while the storm raged "outside" (down on Earth). That place of safety is Heaven. And the Ark's door remained open 7 days before God shut the door Himself, which to me means there will be a sovereign sign to true believers and those tipping on the fence that the rapture is about to happen, perhaps a week in advance - the sign being a trumpet, not the Trumpet of Revelation. There is an interesting connection between 1 Thes. 4:16 and Exodus 19:13, and both involve the Trumpet Call of God. In these two cases and only these two it’s the sound of the trumpet that’s important, not the trumpet itself, and in both cases the sound is said to be coming from God. It's like a train whistle....pheeeeep - it's time to go!! Also, the post Trib view cuts out the Bema seat judgement where believers are rewarded and the marriage of the Lamb.
Greetings to you!! You describe exactly what I am saying for YEARS (since 1994. when I converted) - and I am trying to explain to my pre-tribulation friends that the word MEET mean what the brother in the video said. In our language (I am from Balkan, sought Europe, slavic language) it literary means what you describe.... God bless you! 🧡 And the rest brothers and sisters who does not (yet) see it 🙂🧡
It greatly saddens me that he has to mention John MacArthur, who denies that the atonement is through the blood of Jesus!!! plus, he tells people that they can take the mark of the beast and still get saved!!! John MacArthur is a wolf!!!!!!!!!!
Since the living and remaining can never precede the fallen-asleep [dead] (1Th 4:15), perhaps you can explain how the living can possibly be raptured before the dead whom Jesus promised to resurrect within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54).
According to God's Word. John 15 vs 20 "Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;" 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Comfort yourselves with these scriptures, not with an utterly impossible and oxy moron "pre tribulation" notion.
I am pre-trib. Revelations 3:6 the Church is still being addressed. Then in 3:9 the Church no longer being addressed. There will be those who will be saved and will not take the mark of the beast. They will die as martyrs. We must live our lives everyday as Christ has taught us. Be prepared and pray for those who are lost and for those who have rejected Christ. I just finished a very indepth Bible study with Dr. David Jeremiah Revelation series.
There’s many verses that you haven’t read Dr. Jeremiah was only one man show revelation seven verse 13 chapter 12 verses 13 through 17 chapter 13 verse 10, chapter 14 verse 12 Daniel eight verses 19 through 24. Those are just a few the Saints will be here.
The church is on earth after Revelation 4. Those John saw in Revelation 7 are the church. The angel specifically said they had come out of great tribulation. The book of Revalation is not a book with a linear timeline....straight timeline with one thing happening one after another. Revelation is a circular book showing multiple things happening at the same time.
I appreciate the fellow who starts this discussion by appealing to humility on all sides. That is wise. Every position on this topic has problem passages. Sadly, that same fellow also continuously refers to the Rapture as “the secret rapture”, which is not a term that any pre-Trib teacher I have heard has used. I have heard a LOT of pre-Trib critics use it in their presentations. I’m not saying NO pre-Trib person has used the term, but I have never encountered it except from the mouth of those attacking the pre-Trib position. Such rhetorical devices shouldn’t be necessary if the critic’s case is strong enough to carry the day.
Watch and pray that you will be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Lord. For the elects sake I have shortened those days.
Indeed. The elect will be there. Jesus clearly stated as much. And false teaching about a pre-trib rapture is why many of them will be deceived into not believing what they're experiencing is the end times tribulation.
There's going to be a LOT of people SHOCKED when the LORD makes His GLORIOUS APPEARING. At the end of the tribulation period, the hour of testing upon the earth, Christ will return with His Bride.
Rapture doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830: 1. John Nelson Darby invented the false doctrine of the Rapture 1830-1833 AD and popularized it in 1850 to which it infected us today. While Morgan Edwards had also invented the doctrine in a college essay in 1744 AD, his work was isolated, forgotten and irrelevant as an etiology of the modern popularity of pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine. Darby invented the doctrine without any influence or reliance on Edwards. 2. Morgan Edwards wrote this short essay as a paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744. After he immigrated to the USA, the essay was published in Philadelphia in 1788. It is clear that his school paper went as unnoticed as his formal publication in 1788 AD. While Edwards may in fact be the earliest person on earth to invent the pre-tribulation rapture, it is equally clear that Darby invented the same doctrine in 1830 AD and made it popular 100 years later in 1850 AD. "The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years.: I say, somewhat more; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's " appearing in the air" (1 Thes. iv, 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many " mansions in the father's house of God" (John xiv: 2), and to disappear during the foresaid period of time. ... V. That spot of earth which. Christ will make the seat of his governments Mount Zion, in Jerusalem. Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt, as we shall prove by and by and that temple will be the house of Christ kingdom. ... VI. The risen and changed saints shall reign with Christ on earth a thousand years. I do not mean that all will be kings; for some are to be Christ' s priests, some judges, some rulers over cities, some over his household, some over his goods, (as wee shall see anon) and some his special chorister and musicians. (Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties, Morgan Edwards, 1744 AD, 1788 AD) 3. Darby notes that the doctrine "popped into his head" in 1830 AD. Before this, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine. 4. Darby is one of the founders of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement at the same time he first conceived his rapture theology. Therefore the Plymouth Brethren are inseparable from Rapture theology and always will be and should be avoided. 5. Modern influences of Darby include Dallas Theological Seminary, Bob Jones University, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack Van Impe and Harold Camping, the Scofield Reference Bible. 6. Darby's Rapture theology has infected almost every conservative protestant church, except for a few groups like the Churches of Christ, who rejected it as a non-Biblical doctrine and have denounced it ever since like all other man made doctrines. The Great Tribulation of the Bible is 70AD ... The Total Destruction of Jerusalem ... Why ... Their Rejection of Christ and His Crucifixion ... This completed the 70th week of Daniel ... think about this ... why would God postpone the 70th week for an additional 2023 years + when the first 69 were in succession ... ??? God is not a God of Confusion ... God would not make it so hard to understand ... Not only was Jerusalem destroyed but it started a year or two before 70AD with the destruction of Every Major City in Israel ... I would say that was a Great Tribulation ... The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army Destroying the Temple and Jerusalem ... Jesus came to Fullfil their laws and warn the Jews and teach them and others to become Fishers of Men to carry on The Gospel into the Future ...
Not at all true about John Nelson Darby -- the first century Christians (including the original apostles and also the apostle Paul) and the early church fathers who followed them into the next century, believed in the pre-tribulation Rapture of "the church" ("church" being defined as the collective body of believers in Jesus as Lord and Savior, regardless of denomination or sect). At the end of the second century and continuing into the third century (a.d.), a second school of Christian thought began to emerge in Alexandria, Egypt, which began to compete against the teachings of the first school founded in Antioch, Syria, by the apostle Paul et. al. The Alexandrian school was steeped in Greek philosophy as well as gnosticism and other heretical practices/beliefs. Early philosophers/theologicans like Philo and Origen embraced the Alexandrian teachings rather than the true teachings from the Antiochian school. Augustine came on the scene about 100 years (or so) after Origen, and Augustine embraced Origen's teachings. Augustine then developed the initial concept of an amillennial or allegorical (instead of a literal) 1000-year reign of the Lord upon the earth. Augustine's teachings were embraced by what came to be the Roman Catholic church . . . and that church was the "only game in town" from about 500 a.d. ("ish") until 1517, when John Calvin nailed his 95 theses (originally in Latin) on the door of the church/cathedral at Wittenburg, Germany . . . launching the Protestant Reformation against the RCC. Dr. Andrew Marshall Woods (senior pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church near Houston, Texas) often states in his teachings that Augustine was probably the most influential person in Christian history . . . but NOT in a good way). Throughout the Protestant Reformation and continuing even to the present day, Augustine's false teachings (which were captured in his book "The City of God," have invaded the Christian church collective, being disguised as "Reformed Theology" concepts and theology. In the 1800's, while convalescing at home for the better part of a year following a serious riding accident, John Nelson Darby spent numerous hours studying the Bible and discovered the errors in Augustine's teachings on the topic of the Rapture of the church compared to the biblical text. Darby revitalized the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine which was the original doctrine taught by the original apostles (including Paul) and the early church fathers in the second and early third centuries -- until the gnostic heresies of the Alexandrian school and Augustine took over and became the more dominant theology in the Christian communities around the world.
the truth in the Lord proclaimed!!! and it brings true comfort to those who seek the truth and know it!!! brilliant!!! absolutely brilliant discerning of the Holy Scriptures for His glory...
@@georgeo785 I know the scriptures as well as anyone I know. I’ve got multiple degrees and I can understand difficult concepts on some level even outside my fields of study. That said, with all the years I’ve studied the pre trib rapture-all the books, all the teachings, all the textual studies-I’ve never been able to get it to reasonably harmonize with an honest reading of scripture. There’s too much stretching the text, too many disingenuous acrobatics around objections. Ultimately, I could be wrong and the pre trib rapture could be right. I mean, God can do whatever he wants. Just don’t put all your eggs in that basket. It’s chock full of holes.
I got tired listening to this teacher, they stick their view on one event No Rapture, one big Return). He’s so nervous trying to disprove pretrib and doesn’t go over Jewish salvation as a people! Day of the Lord not mentioned in first video. Trying to review for a soon coming class that will be team taught.
@@georgeo785 At one time Jack Hibbs was post trib so he knows both sides of the argument... To many contortions to make post trib work. I am Pre-Trib and will keep my lamp filled with oil the whole time. (I seriously don't understand how people can get so wound up about this.)
The word "keep" in Revelation 3:10 is from the Greek word tereo which means to guard or protect by keeping the eye upon, it does NOT mean to remove. When Jesus is talking about the great tribulation in the Olivet discourse He mentions false messiahs, wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famines and says, YOU will be hated by all nations for my namesake and be handed over to the authorities to be beaten and tortured and even put to death, but the one who endures to the end will be saved. (notice this is NOT God's wrath, Jesus says 'you will be hated for my namesake.' These are believers, not the wicked that God will pour His wrath out on, that comes later) Jesus then gives a warning sign. Jesus after telling of all the terrible stuff coming says, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation as spoken of by Daniel...flee." That's the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week. So this indicates that the time of great tribulation doesn't actually start until the three and half year mark. The anti-christ doesn't break the treaty until the half-way point. Warning signs always come before the thing they are warning about. So, if Jesus when describing the great tribulation mentions false messiahs, wars and famines etc, and then gives the abomination of desolation as the warning sign, it means that the tribulation actually starts after the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week. Then Jesus says, ""Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon not give its light." This is the sign that Joel 2:31 says, comes right before the Day of the Lord. So, if we put aside our pre-conceived ideas about a pre-trib rapture and really look at scripture, we find that the time of Great Tribulation starts at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week, and then immediately after the tribulation the sun will be darkened and the moon not give its light and according Joel 2:31 then comes the Day of the Lord. I know, I too grew up (spiritually) on the Pre-trib Rapture, but look at scripture with an open mind. By the way, there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that says the Holy Spirit residing in the Church is the restrainer of the anti-christ. BUT, Jesus talking about the time of Great tribulation says, "...It'll be the worst time since the beginning of the world until then. Daniel 12:1 says there will come a time of trouble on Israel that will be the worst time since the beginning of nations until then. These two times have to be the same time because they completely overlap. AND Daniel says this time won't come until the Archangel Michael rises (or goes back to Heaven) and then that terrible time will come; Michael is the restrainer of the anti-christ, not the Holy Spirit in the raptured church.
John 16 vs 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. So you're not a follow of Jesus then @williamrussolesi6052? Jesus told us Christians, His followers, that we would have tribulation. Only those who reject Jesus will not be persecuted..... lest they persecute themselves... LOL
I don't buy your argument from authority. With all due respect to Mr. Lindsay, his authority on the subject is not greater than that of Jesus, who explicitly laid out a timeline for us in the Olivet discourse when he said "after the tribulation of those days". Neither is he a greater authority on the subject than the apostle Paul who places the transformation of the church and her rescue as immediately subsequent to the resurrection of the dead saints, or John who quotes Jesus as saying that the saints will be raised up on the "last day".
Thank you! This teaching is so good. I've been on this journey,alone, trying to understand the truth of the end times. But in my heart and understanding of what I read myself it seemed a pre-trib rapture explanation seemed almost ridiculous (not to be sounding proud about my belief). You haven't even taught all of your points you wanted to make and it seems so clear to me now.
It is outside the character and nature of the goodness of God to punish the righteous with the unrighteous. Any punishment is a slap to the face of the One who bought believers with His perfect blood and healed us with His broken body.😢 sad teachings. Sad days of great deceptions. "I'm going to give you 13 reasons to doubt..."
It rains on the just and the unjust, the sun shines on the just and the unjust 😉 tribulation, just and unjust We shall go through tribulation for our own benefit on our journey to Him 🙏
@@earlclep1 I believe that fits properly. The person above in the comments was saying why would God judge the believers with ubelievers.....saying it is like God slapping us in the face. But we have to remember that god is judging this world spiritually in different ways as we speak........ and we are all mingled together on earth. Also, the Bible says not to pull up the tares till the end........ At the end, GOD IS THE SIFTER.......................
If your saved, it really doesn’t make any difference, if you are pre trib, or believe we’ll be called home in the middle, or post tribulation. Revelation, 3:10 Because thou has kept the word, of my patience, I will also keep the from, the hour of temptation, which shall come upon, all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Interesting parallel use of the same Greek language from revelation 3 found in John 17. Jesus prayed nor that we woild be "taken out of the world" but that we would be protected during the time of persecution that was to come.
That is correct, but the tribulation is not Gods wrath, it is Satans, in the last 3 and half years on believers. 2:38 God loves us all, but he will allow us to be tested. Matthew 24:13 but the one who endures TO THE END will be saved. The first half really has no Biblical name, but the 2nd half was named by Jesus. He called it the Great Tribulation, and said it would begin with the Abomination of Desolation (Matt. 24:15-21). Revelation identify its duration as 1260 days, or 42 months or 3 1/2 years, all equivalent periods of time beginning in the middle of Daniel’s 70th Week. Revelation 13:5,7 5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation
But if as the discussion concludes that ''it makes no sense for Christ to come gather his people then come back down again 7 years later i.e. arguing for a post tribulation ''rapture''-Then how can it make sense for Christ come [post 'Tribulation'] gather up his people then all come back down again immediately for the Milllennium Reign on earth? Wouldn't it make sense that those raptured 7 years previously would return with him to rule over the survivors of the tribulation for a millennium? Doesn't it make more sense that the true believers and righteous would not have to suffer the antichrist and the Tribulation? Because true believers don't need any more suffering to turn them into believers. Let's face it, is there anyone going to be left in any doubt by the end of the Tribulation after the plagues 25% of the world dead, the attack on Isreal etc, so how can it be possible that Christ comes like thief in the night? I think the post Tribbers are n denial and scared. And to argue that it is better to be ''left behind'' seems to be opposed to all logic. Can you ever imagine praying to be left behind? I can't Yes of course the Noah's Ark analogy holds but not in every detail otherwise it would be a carbon copy and not an analogy would it? IF there is any doubt, which there clearly is in on this issue-then shouldn't we go with logic? And logic tells me that it has to be pre Tribulation otherwise
I think what is important to understand is that the emphasis should be on the resurrection. The resurrection and the rapture happen at the same time but the dead in Christ are resurrected first and then we that remain. The resurrection is a big deal. Christ was resurrected and that is a big deal. If it wasn't for that we wouldn't have a hope.
They are both the Rapture as Jesus come for those saved in the church age that trusted and had Faith in what Jesus did on the cross and faith in His blood and His resurrection.
Another biblical and historical illiterate. Do you actually believe that they want to go through the Great tribulation and, therefore, they don't believe in the pre-tribulation?
You'll be there, what a dumb thing to say to suffering children of God, have fun, Are you serious? Is this funny for you,? Repent you carnal human being,
I’m of the same view ever since I 1st read it back 25 years ago. The Church are both Jewish ( 12 tribes 144,000) and all believers. Also most people miss REVELATION CHAPTER 13 Look what happens BEFORE THE MARK. The 2nd BEAST “ ORDERED” MAN ( humans) to MAKE An IMAGE of the 1st BEAST that had sustained a fatal wound YET LIVED…. and those who do not worship it , the IMAGE of the 1st Beast ( genetically engineered by man inspired by Satan) if they didn’t worship the Image that was bought to life ( false 🔥- spirit) to be killed. THEN EVERYONE HAD TO TAKE THE MARK. MATTHEW CHAPTER 25 5 Foolish virgins and 5 wise. Note they were all ASLEEP THEN THEY TRIMMED THEIR LAMPS. EVEN BACK IN DANIEL CHAPTER 12. We are told Blessed are those who make it to 1335 days. When we read from verses 10 onwards to verse 13. The daily sacrifice is Christian’s serving our fellow man for JESUS. A time will come when people will refuse to listen . 1,290 days from the stopping of the daily sacrifice ( Christian’s choose to follow the HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM RATHER THAN GIVE INTO THEIR FLESH . SET UP the abomination of desolation. If your still alive then you will be either martyred or imprisoned. There are so many scriptures in the OLD TESTAMENT telling what is to happen. To many to mention here
Paul stated that we shall meet the Lord in the air, his foot doesnt touch down on the mount of Olives when he comes to judge the nations. Also read Daniel Ch:12
You guys are spot on. I used to be a pre- triber, but the math wasn't adding up according to scripture, and it bothered me. In recent years, the Lord broke it down to me verbatim exactly like you are saying. I did not hear this from a man, I heard it in the spirit. I've been trying to explain it to people, some get it, but some are to endoctrinated. Also, the brother mentioned the gospel being preached all over the world. I always tell people we are the other part of the world duh. The gospel did not start in the USA, it started in Jerusalem. I hope the understanding of bellivers will be opened to this truth.
pre trib not only lacks scriptural support.... it finds itself in clear conflict with scripture. The order of events is simple: Deception Apostasy Antichrist Abomination Tribulation worse than anything ever says Daniel Jesus confirms not only worse ever.... but that will ever be. So the tribulation is UNPRECEDENTED and UNSURPASSED. Immediately AFTER the tribulation: the Sun and Moon go Dark... even the most hardened heart cannot miss this. THEN they shall see Jesus coming in the sky in great power and glory Taking vengeance on all those who have rejected him. Interesting that that the kings of the earth say "hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne" Whilst the kings think it's the wrath in chapter 15 and 16 we see that the vials are the wrath Pre tribbers find it necessary to make the scriptures mean something they do not , to the point of partially quoting. For example: "That day shall not come unless there is a falling away FIRST.... AND the Man of Sin [antichrist presumably] be revealed. That's the guy that sits As God in the temple Of God claiming he Is God. Has the antichrist been revealed? Then the return of Christ is not near. Furthermore... it is clear that there can be no rapture without a resurrection FIRST. {no rapture without resurrection}. Since Christ's 2nd. coming/gathering is After the tribulation, a pre tribulation rapture contradicts scripture. A quick read of these scriptures will make it very clear. Daniel 7 and 9. Mathew 13, 24 Mark 13 Luke 17, 21 Acts 1 and 2 I Corinthians 15 All of I and II Thessalonians I and II Peter. K
I found The Truth in same way you described. I however now live in the "other parts of the world" the remote mountains of an island in the Philippines. Thanks to phones no one hardly on earth doesn't have access to the gospel. These people may not have running water, electricity, indoor plumbing, modern tools , access to education, shoes or even enough to eat every day BUT everyone of them have a phone. Access to The Truth if they choose to seek God, no problem. 😉
You use to be correct. Pre tribulation is the proper understanding of Scripture. Don't read the Bible, STUDY IT! Who are the following verses talking about? Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Hint: There isn't a Gentile in the group 😉 #2 69 weeks have been fulfilled and the church wasn't even a thing yet.
Not appointed to wrath . Matt 24 is not rapture John 14 is . The Thessalonians thought that they were in the tribulation because of the persecution of the Romans they were receiving thought they missed the rapture Paul was straightening them out. When he finished, he said comfort one another that you didn’t miss the rapture not comfort one another that you’re going to go through the tribulation just makes no sense.
Omg....this guy spoke at speed beyond what most people could follow....and kept apologizing for his stance and beliefs that were based on solid facts. Speaking calmy and confidently would really help your presentation.
I think the reason people want to believe in a pretribulation rapture is because it would be easier to sign up new Christians. It would be a harder sell telling people they would have to go through the worst persecution and destruction in history. I know the rapture is after the tribulation. Everyone's faith and loyalty will be tested and that makes sense to attain everlasting life.
that was outstanding !! Several key points you brought out that had not occurred to me before, but I have always thought to myself, "how many last trumpets are there". That never made sense to me either.
If you read 1 Thessalonians 4 16 God himself will decent from heaven (with the trump of God) the dead in Christ will rise first and he is alive and remains……(encourage one another with these words) Not the 7th angel mentioned in revelation 6. They are different trumpets. Suddenly in a twinkling of an eye, at last Trump, the dead in Christ will rise first……
Trumpets are blown on many Jewish feasts. The Trump of God was at Pentecost. Trumps are blown at rosh Hashanah in thr fall which is 'the feasts of no man knows' ....also feasts of tabernacles. Let the holy spirit guide you and pray for wisdom. Rev 3.10
One Major Reason to Believe in the Rapture: the Book of Revelation devotes four chapters to this topic. Chapter six describes the reaction of every lost person left behind on Earth as they run for the mountains and flee the portals of Heaven and God. Chapter Seven introduces us to the numberless multitude who were saved from the Great Tribulation.
Monte Judah of Lon and Lamb Ministry has an EXCELLENT teaching on this subject... Scriptural and easily understandable... No church doctrine nonsense...
This was an excellent discussion. Some might say it nit picky whether you are pre-trib or not, but it has major consequences. Consider those who believe in a such who eventually finding themselves living with in the persecutions and violence of the tribulation. Would that experience not test their faith and many fall by the wayside during those times. We must be prepared that we could very suffer and die because of your faith, as many in Africa do this very day. Would the Western Christian be that seed that fell on good soil and resist the heresy of those times? Would we deny Jesus to save our hides? One doesn’t know until experiencing such suffering. Even Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and he was already told that he would do so. Who will we fair in such circumstances? We must be prepared for no rapture and suffer the tribulation.
Then you know God's word. Not many on this podcast do. They are clueless. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians will be gone. They removed my long pretrib comment because I proved them wrong.
Here is a quick riddle for you. What is one thing that all Christian groups assert, which - if that assertion is valid - involves a logical contradiction (ln particular, the law of non-contradiction)? Here is the answer: "We derive our doctrinal stance from the Scriptures." Every doctrinal position cannot be correct. Humility goes a long way; we must all go there first.
The Bible teaches that Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath. But what if the first few years of the Tribulation are not God's wrath, but the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist? Revelation chapter 6 clearly says that God's wrath begins at some point after the midpoint of the Tribulation. That means Christians will be here for the first four or five years.
We need to apply 2 Timothy 2:15 or rightly dividing the Word of Truth to understand Scripture because there are passages in the bible that are specifically for a group of people. We can't apply all passages to all people because we will only be confused.
Revelation 12:15 says that the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood which can relate to Matthew 24 comparing to the days of Noe. Which his flood is of Lies! Earlier in Rev Chapter 12 it says that their was a war in heaven and Michael and his angels cast out Satan and his angels to the earth from heaven and they rejoiced in heaven but Woe to the inhabiters of the earth. 2 Thess 2 says that the man of sin will stand in the holy place claiming to be God. In Rev 2:8 & 3:7 it says we will be delivered up to the Synagogue of Satan for Christs name sake and be persecuted. Satan shall come upon the whole world to try and deceive them that dwell upon the earth. (Rev 3:10) We will be here when Satan is revealed in his time tho his spirit is hard at work as is the Holy Spirit… Got to armor up with the Armor of God in Ephesians 6 and stand our ground until Christ returns. Be as the Church of Smyrna and Philadelphia which are the only 2 that Christ found no fault with in Rev Ch. 2:8 & 3:7 that stood against the synagogue of Satan in the name of Christ!
Please don't forget1Cor.15:50-58. You should also teach where this Rature teaching came from Mary MacDonald,John Darby, and Scofield. I believe this teaching for many years until I really studied the book of Revelation and kept seeing the word Overcomer right up to the end of the book. I also have been blessed to listen to many good teachers like Jesse Gistand , Bruce Gore,Charles Balwin etc.
There were many pre-trib rapturists among the Puritans. The story about the girl's vision as convincing Darby is as mythical as that he learned his teaching from Jesuits! Use your head.
Actually it came from the Holy Ghost in the original manuscripts.....via the Harpazo teaching in II Thessalonians. Harpazo is Greek in those manuscripts for "snatched away or taken by force". The Rapture teaching came long before those people. Have a nice day.
Well, those “good teachers” are wrong! Look in the O.T. and see how God saved His people from His coming wrath. Noah and the Flood, as well as Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah! Try saying that those examples are irrelevant!
Jesus said it as clear as glass , he spoke to his disciples about the great tribulation and said immediately following these days look for the coming of the son f man. That means after period.
I was born in St Paul fifteen days before Israel was reborn as a nation May 14 1948. My dad took me to a Pentecostal Church after he had-me circumcised on the eighth day. I was offered up to the Lord and Satan has been trying to kill me since the day I was born, as my mom had scarlet fever when I was born. I bled to death when I was 8. God has been protecting me more times than I can remember. I almost got killed by two tornadoes. My mom rescued me when I was thee, watching it come directly at me. When I was about 4 my dad rescued me at big lake in South Dakota as a water spout tornado was coming directly at me. It hit the water trough where I had been standing and I still remember all the little fish raining afterwards. I’ve been in more car wrecks than I can remember. God kept me from harm for two years in Vietnam, from September 7 1968 until October 28 1970.
Notice again in Revelation 4:1, the trumpet. Revelation 4:1 1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
You three did a great job. I’ve been studying revelation for 20 years. I used to listen to it every day and the tapes,, and the man in the middle spent a lot of time going through all the verses that pertain to any return of Christ I used to be a pre trib,,the a mid trib, but now I’m definitely a post trip one of the things you could’ve said that helps me and may help others is that verse it says where sin abounds grace much more abounds, that is so true. God‘s word is always true.
Christ went about preaching the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM. MATT. 3:2, Luke 9:2. The disciples were sent to preach also the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom could not be our gospel of the church because Christ had not been sent to the cross yet. Our gospel is 1 COR. 15:1 So when you read MATT. 24:14 Christ said when THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preach in all the world then the end shall come. REV. 14:6 I saw an angel with the everlasting gospel to PREACH to them that dwell on the earth. So that means the gospel of the kingdom being preach at the start of the thousand year reign. The gospel of the kingdom was only preach to the Jews not to the church. MATT.10:6 preach only to the lost sheep of Israel. All verses in MATT. 24 points to the gathering of Israel not the church which had not been started yet. MATT. 24:31 he will send his angels with the sound of a trumpet and gather his elect. ISA. 27:12-13 it shall come to past in that day, that the Lord shall beat off the channel of the great river unto a stream of Egypt and ye shall be GATHERED. ONE BY ONE. O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. 12 verse. And it shall come to past that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN. and they shall come which were ready to perish, come to worship the Lord in JERUSALEM. this is almost word for word of what is written in MATT. 24. When the Gentile church was proclaimed to be a replacement for the Jewish church in ACT. 13:46 Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said it was necessary that the word of God should be preach to you first, you judge yourself unworthy of EVERLASTING LIFE. We turn to the Gentiles. Then Paul preach about a rapture for the church, which is to be taken out of this world by FORCE. We are now gather by the Spirit ROM. 8:11. The Spirit of him that raise up Christ from the dead dwell in you shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELL IN YOU. the church will not need no angels to gather us , because the SPIRIT OF GOD IN US SHALL GATHER AND change us just like Christ. Those in MATT 24 will still be mortal Jews. Matt. 24 is only talking about God moving back to Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles come into the church. ROM. 11:15 I believe I can prove that every verse in Matt. 24 is taking about God saving the Jews in the natural, But I want add all this right now because it is just too long of a study, but I will prove my statements if asked. There is an early rapture of the church, we are separate from the natural Jews that God shall also save.
The rapture is just when Jesus gathers his elect from the four winds. It's the same thing, the same event as his 2nd coming. Please share one passage in context that supports a pretrib rapture. Thanks.
Thank you. I have copied your points to study over a coffee later. Being simple minded, I fell off when they ranted about our wanting to be 'left behind' as in the days of Noah ! Even as he read the scriptures it sounded perfectly clear that the left behind were the judged and dead. Talk about messing with your head - sounded á la Whoopy Goldberg twisting the word almost! CHRIST IS my ark; and we were not appointed to wrath, and so we can be comforted. Notwithstanding, I'm confident we'll all see each other in the clouds during the Rapture 😉having escaped from God's wrath, forever more in the mighty presence of Yeshua Ha Mashiach. Bless you.
Finally! Someone who interprets the Word of God with the plain sense of meaning. Also the book of Revelation speaks several times of MARTYRS of the antichrist for refusing to take the mark of the beast. This is PLAIN in the Book of Revelation. Spirit born children of God will be present t when antichrist is revealed and persecutes them.
@ Joy Mahiko Do we realise that all the things prophesied in Revelation happened in the first century during the Jewish-Roman War (66 to 73 AD) ? HOW can those pastors who studied theology and I guess history too deceive us all that much , projecting all those things into the future , disconnecting all prophetic texts from their proper historical context ? The beast and Babylon were symbols of Rome and Jerusalem . Nothing to do withour modern era !!!!!!! Do we realise that Jesus said at his coming , there would be women GRINDING AT THE MILL ?? Present time ??
@@ChaplainBillEvans "Those are Tribulation Saints, not The Church." .... that is the most insane, non sensical, ridiculous, laughable thing I've ever heard. The saints are the church!!! The church are the followers of Jesus. Oh you spirit of antichrist you. LOL
1 Thess. 4:15 shows us how the rapture cannot happen without the resurrection happening first. 1 Thess. 4:15-18 fits like a hand and glove with Matt. 24:29-31. It all happens on the last day, immediately after the Great Tribulation.
He that endures to the end shall be saved. These 2 witnesses of scripture seal it for me 2 Thessalonians 2:1,2 says the day of the lord and our gathering to him are the same day. The parable of the wheat and tares says they both grow together till the harvest. The tares are gathered and burned in the fire then the wheat is gathered into the barn.
So what your saying is what Jesus did means nothing then??? He that endures to the end shall be saved are the Tribulation saints not the church, we are already saved by the blood of Jesus, we are not appointed to wrath. We are taken out of the way as we the church are part of the restrainer the Holy Spirit.
@@genesisauctions Jesus said, in this world, you will have tribulation. So expect tribulation. What makes Christians so much more special today than all the Christians that have been persecuted and killed over the last 2,000 years?
@@kamikaze4928 Amen amen amen!! That's what I preach over and over. Christians have gone through tribulation and persecution for 2000 years, beginning with John the Baptist. Therefore it is not possible for Jesus to be able to go back and save them from being killed if they've already been killed. And even up to this day, Christians are going through tribulation. Right up until the last day there will be tribulation and persecution. Tribulation applies to Christians. If there were no Christians around, if Jesus took everyone away before they went through tribulation, then there would be no tribulation at all. It just wouldnt exist. But sadly, these pre tribbers lack common sense and cannot see that "pre trib" is an oxy moron.
I went to a school that taught the Pre-Trib view. I've never really studied since Bible College, just assumed I was taught correctly. I do recall questiong the view based on my reading of 2 Thess, plus, Matthew 24 which was discounted as not in the church dispensation. I recently spent weeks looking at the topic, as I'm retired and have more time. I finished my study believing I was taught incorrectly. I came to the same conclusion as you are teaching and I felt it couldn't be more clear. Matthew 24 is the longest text on the topic, taught by Jesus himself. All other passages only deal with a small question and rely on Matt 24 as the bedrock. Where would the disciples have learned about end time events? They had to learn from Jesus, so their understanding would have to be based on what Jesus taught. Thanks for doing this teaching! Man you talk fast!!!!
@Scott Ranck I had to chuckle at your last line of your post...I'm sure you remember the old photographs that you you could slow down or speed up the speed of the revolutions of the record, yep,, you got it, 78 all the way! God bless you! By the way, I agree with you on the post-trib rapture!🤣🙏🤗💞
"Bible Colleges" only teach you their individual denominations doctrine... Very little is taught about ACTUAL "church" history... A lot of verses in the Scriptures are allegorized or skipped over completely... Conversely SOME schools do teach a lot about the word, but they throw in ONE little word or phrase that turns their teachings into falsehoods, either intentional or accidental due to just regurgitating what THEY had been taught by the SAME institutions...
Guys, Here is our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
In Revelation 19:11-21 Jonh wrote what he saw about the Second coming of Christ, until someone find me on those verses the Rapture, what Paul wrote on 1 Thes 4:16-18, I will keep believing in a Rapture before the judgement (The Day Of The Lord)
Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 says that "those who have fallen asleep IN HIM will be taken" not those that are going to be judged. 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the Rapture because the Church is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler. Those are just 3 of MANY Bible references that support the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
I was raised in a Pentecostal church that taught pre-trib exclusively. Over the years I changed to post-trib. I have sense altered it again to the pre-wrath rapture which IMO unifies the end time events all throughout the New Testament.
This is truly a strange thing... Can we discuss: 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, This was written before there was a "New Testament" (there would be no "New Testament" for at least 100 years after the ascension of Yeshua)... Therefore, Yeshua the Messiah and ALL the Apostles taught from the "Old Testament"... Yeshua the Messiah came speaking only His Father's Words... Where is there a rapture of ANY sort in the "Old Testament"? There is NONE... Moses and all the animals WENT THROUGH the flood, but were kept safe in the ark... LOT and most of his family were pulled away from the cities before destruction and they saw them being destroyed from afar (They were not taken up to heaven, they never left from the earth)... EVERY Hebrew saw the plagues of Egypt and were even subjected to the first four of them... They were delivered by the mighty hand of YeHoVaH through the Red Sea... They received GRACE and DELIVERANCE before receiving the Laws of GOD... EVERY prophet from the "Old Testament" told us of the last days... Yeshua the Messiah quoted from the writings of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Jonah, Micah, Zechariah, and Malachi when He spoke of the Last Days... If anyone came preaching a different Gospel, they would have been exposed by the Bereans and considered a FALSE prophet...
Guys, Here is our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I agree! Pre wrath rapture with Jesus coming in the clouds for the harvest in Rev 14. Then right after God prepares the grapes of WRATH of which we are not appointed to his wrath
If all of us Christians lived our lives with the belief that at any moment, Jesus could rapture us to be with Him, without any single prophecy to be fulfilled, then we would be focused on fulfilling the great commission and putting Jesus first in our daily lifestyle habits and actions, and all other things would become less important. Post tribulation believers can’t live this way. I pray today is the day Jesus returns for His Bride. Maranatha.
Dude! You talked way to fast that it was hard for me to keep up! 😅 but everything you said makes sense! And I have always leaned to post trib. I don’t see or understand how people can get a pre trib theory. I’m not sure if people just lack comprehension or people just really aren’t understanding and studying for themselves but just going by what everyone else says because it’s been taught for the past few hundred years.
Adventures with Mimi I totally agree people have comprehension disabilities! They have a preconceived idea and want to stick with it and can’t look at facts of what the Scriptures actually are saying.
Thank you another smart person. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians are gone. They removed my long pretrib comment because I proved them wrong
The Bible teaches that Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath. But what if the first few years of the Tribulation are not God's wrath, but the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist? Revelation chapter 6 clearly says that God's wrath begins at some point after the midpoint of the Tribulation. That means Christians will be here for the first four or five years.
@@georgeo785 tribulation only applies to followers of Jesus. If there were no followers of Jesus then there could not be any tribulation. John 15 vs 20 "Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;" The unsaved wont go through tribulation.... I mean seriously, do you think they're going to persecute each other???? ROFLMAO!!!! Christians aren't "GONE"...... Christians (followers of Jesus) have been killed since John the Baptist. Did Jesus take him away? No. The disciples of Jesus were killed and many others after them. Did Jesus come and take them away before THEY went through tribulation, beheading, stoning???? NO! All true Christians will go through tribulation, just as we are right now, right up until the day the Lord returns. Revelation 20 vs 4 "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." - So are you saying that the scripture is lying??? That the bible is false??? - The scripture is clear, Christians will be beheaded for not worshiping the beast. Does THAT sound like a "pre trib" rapture??? NO!! WAKE UP sunshine!! Put your thinking cap on and actually study the bible for yourself!! Praise Jesus, for He is the way, the TRUTH, the life and the light of this wretched and dark world.
Hello brothers. So I’ve been looking into pre-TRIB or post TRIB. Can someone explain to me, that is pre-TRIB, how Paul’s teaching about the Lawless one appearing makes sense if Christians that he was writing to would’ve never seen the anti-Christ. How could it be a sign that the day the lord hasn’t come yet, because the lawless one hasn’t appeared. Shouldn’t he be pointing to signs that would occur before the rapture, not after?
For the rest of our series on Revelation and eschatology, see here:
ua-cam.com/play/PL4nNmjgYbRZ7bCKQsCUZ9mi6SWRzCFRXG.html
I no longer agonize over this topic. It will be what it is going to be. Focus on your walk with God; faithfulness is the requirement no matter the circumstance.
Doesn't matter whether your pre Trib, mid Trib or post Trib. Nothing will happen to Believers that is apart from God's Will. We can rejoice in this knowledge.
I'm hoping for a pre-trib rapture, but preparing for tribulation. I am unable to fully commit to either argument, I think there is merit to both. Either way, my eternal salvation is secure, but I'm doing what I can to prepare for hard times. Glory be to God.
Matthew 24:13
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
I praise God that my salvation isn't dependent on my belief in a theory, but on the fact that Jesus Christ took my sins away ON THE CROSS! I am born again, washed in His shed blood, and I will meet Him one day. The timing of that day, only God knows. Spread the Gospel to all and pray that His harvest will be plentiful.
The timing of Christ's 2nd coming is clearly revealed in the Scriptures: Jesus called it , "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54). Daniel called it, "The End of the Days", and reported a blessing for those who will be alive, 1335 days after the daily sacrifices have been terminated (Dan 12:13), in a temple not yet built. This event-driven, variable-method of prediction is similar to how Daniel also revealed the time of Christ's triumphant entry into Jerusalem. However, like before Christ's first coming, religious leaders argue among themselves, because some want to believe what they want to believe, despite being contradicted by holy, God-breathed, inerrant Scripture (2Tim 3:16).
Good one even tho im pre trib I'm just open to what God will, and I'm saved thru believing in his blood shed resurection on the Cross
Amen!
Grumpy Grandma , You better be willing to endure the Great Tribulation if your Physical Body does not die before then , because there is no such thing as a return of Jesus Christ before the Great Tribulation . That is not going to happen . Jesus said He that endured unto the end , the same shall be saved
Top Cat , You Pre tribbers are soft
I used to be Catholic so I was post tribulation, since leaving the catholic church I've started taking the Bible literally, and am now pre tribulation. I'll give just a few reasons why, first Christ Himself told us to pray that we were counted worthy to escape all these things Luke 21:36. 2nd the doctrine of imminence, this was a big one for me. All through the New Testament it tells us that Christ comes as a thief in the night He could come at anytime, after the desecration of abomination we Could mark on a calendar when Christ will return this is in the old and new testament. This is like the last one Christ comes as a thief in the night but also as the lighting flashes from east to west every eye will see Him this sounds like two separate events. There are many many more examples I'd recommend Chuck missler study on this it's very well done. Post-trib is catholic doctrine and didn't exist until the late 6th century, the early church was expecting to be ruptured before the tribulation
John 16 vs 33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
John 15 vs 20
"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;"
Revelation 20 vs 4
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Christians (followers of Jesus) have been killed for thousands of years, starting with John the Baptist, so how then can Jesus save everyone from going through tribulation when they have already gone through it!?
I'll give you another example. Revelation chapter 5 verse 9. John clearly is speaking of the church in Heaven. Tribulation starts in chapter 6.
Were the Israelites appointed to the wrath, No. They saw it but were protected through it. So it will be. The entire concept that the rapture happens before the trib cannot be correct. Not appointed to wrath means God's wrath. the first 3.5 years is man's wrath against believers, not God's. So at the very least, you should be mid-trib, if not post trib
@justinharris6486, also, it makes no sense for Jesus to beat up his bride for 7 years of tribulation before returning to fetch her for the wedding.
Post Tribulation teaching is associated with Schofield and the Schofield Bible: late 1800s for Protestants.
I love listening to different perspectives on Biblical matters among Christians! It just shows how finite we are compared to a great God we have. The important thing is to be ready and prepared to meet the Lord Jesus Christ, which involves being united in love.🙏🙂
I’m 75 now, and wisdom comes with age! I’ve been living the life of Job since Oct 11/ 2001. God hasn’t forsaken me and is ever present with me. If in faith I quote scripture, He follows it with signs and wonders. God took my drivers license from me in 2002 for not wearing a seat belt ticket. I Praise God, as I have learned, the LORD gives and the LORD takes away, Blessed be the name of the LORD, He’s God, I Am not! He has a right to do as He pleases, though I have suffered much, I know He will some day, just like Job, give me double everything Satan has stolen from me. I know He will, because I have confessed it in faith, knowing God honors His word (which Jesus is!) When God chosen, I will receive, just like Job, houses and lands and cars and everything Satan stole, as Gods word is true. I will wait until my change comes and until then, I must Praise God, who is LORD of Lords and KING of Kings, Almighty God is He. Jesus is, according to Isaiah, the Everlasting Father, as well as the Prince of Peace. Praise God forevermore! Amen. Love in Christ Jesus, Bill
What will you do with two driver's license?
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Wrath and judgement are two ENTIRELY different matters...
Judgement STARTS with the House of GOD...
Doesn't prove a rapture.....
Guys, Here is our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Nice evidence. Good job
That wrath happens when a person ultimately rejects Jesus Christ as his savior and Lord, and he is condemned to the Lake of Fire.
The Bible plainly teaches that when the trumpet sounds the dead in Christ will rise first then His Church will rise to meet Him in the air! Jesus then returns 7 years later to the Mount of Olives to set up His Kingdom. I am going up in the Rapture because we are not appointed to Gods Wrath! Praise God!
I really don’t care when I get rapture or not as long as I get to paradise and be with Jesus I’ll be very blessed thank you !
Yes, Luis, you will care very much when it is. If it were during or after the tribulation, if you lived, you would be experiencing literal hell on earth. Anyone who pretends that doesn't matter to them is either ignorant or lying.
Guys, Here is our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Okenshield69 I see and understand Luis through a different set of eyes.
Meaning: personally ( through JESUS) I do not fear, DEATH, nor CATASTROPHIC global events wheather such events be before or after seal 6.. [ It appears ] most Christians are afraid of dealing with 'normal' daily trials, so to think they will have to deal will such event as seal 6 and thereafter. Welllll !
The NAVY SEALS never look forward to a battle never-the-less he prepare his WHOLE body and mind for the worst of battles even if he die.
@@Okenshield69 It will be hell on Earth for every believer, but Jesus Christ has overcome the world.
Do you want to go through 7 years of hell on earth. The last 3.5 the worst. The tribulation is for Jewish people and not Christians. These guys are clueless
God has always delivered His believers before judgement. The main problem if you don't believe in the pre- tribulation rapture is that you will be left behind with the rest of the unbelievers.
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world “to test”those who live on the earth “____Revelation 3:10
I'm a mid, looking forward to the rapture of Jesus. Bottom line, be saved and ready at any moment.
If it's Mid, how can the A/C rule for 7 years, as we are the restrainer that is removed to let him rule?
Post-trib has always been plainly clear to me. It’s hard for me to see how others can’t see that, but I think people tend to believe what feels good to them rather than what the text plainly says. Sometimes truth is hard to swallow. Also, I think people confuse tribulation with wrath. In my understanding, the tribulation is the difficult time leading up to Christ’s return when we experience the mark of the beast, antichrist, etc but clearly after the tribulation when we are raptured, God will destroy all evil and pour out His wrath which we will not experience. His wrath is not meant for us, but tribulation and wrath are different from what I can see unless I’m missing something. I’ve enjoyed your videos and am trying to understand amillenialism. My hangup with it is Rev 20 says the first resurrection consists of those who didn’t take the mark of the beast, but the mark of the beast doesn’t happen until time of tribulation so how can first resurrection be our initial salvation? Would love any insight you have on this. Also, I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where it says something about 7 yrs of tribulation. Can you help me understand why people say 7 years?
I’m pre trib…and it’s ok…your all still my brothers and sisters in Christ
You sir are one of the only intelligent people on this podcast. Tribulation is for Jewish people and the unsaved. We are gone
I am not so sure if they are if they can't rightly divide the Scriptures. Misleading people
@@georgeo785 Bravo George, these people frustrate me because they are not very detail oriented. They not only butcher the proper division, but it leads to the improper application of "...hold fast which is good". I wish these people would humble themselves and let Dr. Ruckman and Dr Gene Kim teach them step by step.
I agree with previous comment, they seem to be trying to divide.... Shame I hope no one believes that crap! Jesus coming very soon, pls repent & change ways 🙏
The pretrib is a lie from hell. The scripture clearly states its after the tribulation of those days. It clearly states that it will not come til the falling away (apostasy) and revealing of antichrist and abomination. It clearly states last Trump. (Only one) Besides the Bible, you rapture guys will be among the starving and confused and unprepared as the tribulation hits. It's at the door. And yall haven't prepared. Cause you think we're whisped away
John 6:39, John 17:15 father, I pray not that you take them out of this world, but keep them from the evil one.
This request by the Lord could extend to refusing any rapture ever. You use it to limit it to refusal of the pre-trib rapture, but you cannot do that. Jesus doesn't limit it. Mindless people have long used this verse to deny the pre-trib rapture. It's not your fault, you learned it from false teachers.
SO EXPLAIN THE PART WHEN THE DEAD WILL RISE AND THE LIVING WILL MEET THE LORD IN THE SKIES?
We need to get our minds and spirits prepped up for the Great Tribulation. Patience and faith will be very important for the saints (Rev. 13:10).
I lived in the days of the labor pains. They were getting closer and the feeling of darkness was closing in. The fear and upset was gripping me tight. I could not take it anymore and humbled myself in worship at the alter. I was changed. I was already saved many years but this time I knew I had to get rid of every last bit of darkness in my heart. No more lies not even white ones as they feel wrong and dark. God loves the truth and there is nothing to be ashamed of and I no longer have any intentions that are not motivated by unconditional love that is bigger than my own. He does this for me. I have no more anxiety or fear. I have joy unspeakable and I have discernment. I have empathy for anyone separated by sin because I know they suffer. I can not stand to see a person suffer or to even hear about it but It compels me to help wherever I can. I am compelled to share the gospel in an encouraging way that people can relate to. They can relate to the heart in their hearts and we can reach them only with Christs love. Matthew 22 34 to 40. I was baptized in fire. The old self dead and it was is if it came unexpectedly as If I was raptured. The change is extreme. I was even physically healed. I carry an ability to encourage people and leave them grinning ear to ear in love with the Lord as they experience the Lords Spirit. I dreamed about this many time in my life and now I live it wondering what miracle I will see or be part of next. So much has happened so quickly. My relationships have been healed. Some even delivered. Some manifest when I am with them. Some can not look me in the eye anymore. Some are delivered easily, Some not and it takes prayer and fasting and Gods help to reach their hearts. Go forth and expect more than what you expect from yourself if you are a child of God. He has so much more for you.
Please pray for me. I need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone near me that is, so no one to lay hands on me to pray in the Spirit. I have spinal cord damage that left me a paraplegic. Please pray for healing as well. Thank you in advance!
WOW
@@elainewat2607 JESUS HEALED YOU elaine. only believe. do not listen to your body.believe what GOD did for you. Salvation and healing are on the basis of faith in what GOD has already done for us through Jesus Christ. then our fresh and anything else will have to obey their creator. for you and me is to believe HIM.THE REST IS hIS. GLORY
@@elainewat2607 Closely follow the ministry of Joni Eareckson Tada, one of the most Godly, on-fire-for-Jesus women of our times... Despite also being paraplegic she has a huge ministry blessing many people, & walks very closely with Jesus. You can find many of her videos on You Tube. They are a huge blessing.
My faith is in the pre tribulation….. 🙌🏾 come Lord, come! I’m not sure why anyone would think that the church/bride of Christ would have to go through that horrible 7 year timeframe. It’s Jacobs trouble, not ours!
Well you could read the Bible and see we are PROMISED tribulation. Just look at the tell MILLIONS of Christians who have been imprisoned tortured and killed for their faith.
The Bible is clear, the dead rise first THEN we who are alive and remain will be taken up.
The Bible is also clear when the FIRST resurrection takes place, it's near the end of the trubulation. Rev 20
One of the major divine purposes for the Great tribulation in relation to Israel
The Church is not the bride of Christ there is no such thing.
Yes. Tribulation that Jesus said we will all face is not the 7 year period of the great tribulation. I just taught Old Testament Prophets in a Bible Institute. It is very obvious that there are promises and covenants given to Israel not yet fulfilled. Jacob is not the church.
The 144,000 of Revelation 7:4 through 8 are the Jews. Those mentioned from verse 9 and forward ("after these things...) are not the Jews ("a great multitude which no one could count from every nation and tribes and peoples and tongues...") ("these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..."). It's plain to see for those with opened eyes and not preconceived notions not based on scripture.
“I pray *not* that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest *keep* them from the evil.”
“But all these things *will they do unto you for my name's sake* because they know not him that sent me.”
{John 15:20-21}
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
{Acts 5:41}
If you’re on speed, this guy is talking at just the right pace
Regardless of which way a Christian falls on this subject, we are so impressed at the respect the three people here showed for each other. We need more talks like this. Respecting another's interpretation and not shouting down a fellow Christian for believing a different way. We congratulate you on this lively teaching and debate!
Once you know the truth, you should not respect lies...
It's much like "Debating" the Sabbath...
There is ONE TRUE GOD ordained 7th Day Sabbath and there is the others illegitimately created by men...
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit...
@@bawbjusbawb6471 When you start to distinguish between what is truly, truly divine and what is man-made; when you can distinguish between what is "of the world" and what is "NOT of the word" (See John 17 and John 8 for example), then you start to see rightly and the TRUTH will set you free from slavery to man-made doctrines and traditions of organized religion.
... respect they show each other ? Don't they all take the same position on the subject ? - no pretrib rapture ?
Notice they didn’t invite someone who believes differently. Surrounding themselves with themselves like the Bible says
Reject all you want. If you're truly saved, you'll still go with us. Praying for you to see the truth.
And if you are truly saved Yahweh will keep, protect you through the great tribulation. Just like he did Noah and Lot. He protected them through it all.
@Eugene Roy he spared them from those events. Removing lot from the situation all together.
@@EBRoyJr .... he not only saved and protected Noah "through" the flood, but God also protected all the Hebrews through the plagues God put on the Egyptians through Moses. If you noticed, not one of the plagues touched even one Hebrew, only the Egyptians.
It will be the same way through the Great Tribulation.
I agree with you brother. If a person is saved and it turns out to be a pre-trib rapture, then we will "all" go then the rapture happens. If it turns out to be a post-trib rapture, then we will all go through the Great Tribulation and we will all go in the rapture when it happens.
NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. This is man's superstition used upon the people to make them think that this is a punishment from God that they will be left behind and not get to go in the rapture if you refuse to believe that it is a pre-trib rapture.
If you remember, when Jesus was talking to the Sanhedrin, the Religious Leaders, he said you will not enter in and you keep the people from entering in.
Y E P!!!!!!
Folks... the word of God says that even Jesus does not know the day or hour of his return. Only God the Father knows. The word also gives warning to AVOID endless debates and genealogies that will lead you from the Truth.
Study to show thyself approved, people. Jesus is the Way, Truth, and the Life. Jesus, the fall of man, and salvation can be found in Gen 1:1 and all throughout the Old and New Testament can be found the central core of God's word; Jesus. Focus on becoming more than a believer in Christ. Become a true disciple and FOLLOW Jesus. Keep his commandments. Today is full of enough of its own troubles. Don't worry about tomorrow. Jesus IS the Word of God. Jesus is where our focus should be and remember, tomorrow is not promised so make each step Today be steps that glorify God.
💪✝️❤️🕊
Jesus told us He is going to prepare a place for us and will return to take us to be with Him. Then we return to Earth after the 7 year tribulation. When we are caught up at the rapture, each one of us stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat judgment, then we receive our eternal, resurrected bodies, celebrate the marriage of the Lamb, then return with Jesus to rule with Him at the New Jerusalem for the Millennial Reign. Praise Jesus. Thank You Jesus. Maranatha Jesus.
A few points I would like to make. He says 14:36 into the video that the saved are left behind to meet Jesus while the evil people are swept away. He is possibly confusing this with the sheep and goat judgement at the end of the Great Trib but the fact that he does not refer to the sheep and goat judgement indicates to me he has not thought of it. Regarding Noah in the boat, this is my interpretation: Eight people (8=New Beginning) got IN TO a boat, an enclosure, a place of safety, while the storm raged "outside" (down on Earth). That place of safety is Heaven. And the Ark's door remained open 7 days before God shut the door Himself, which to me means there will be a sovereign sign to true believers and those tipping on the fence that the rapture is about to happen, perhaps a week in advance - the sign being a trumpet, not the Trumpet of Revelation. There is an interesting connection between 1 Thes. 4:16 and Exodus 19:13, and both involve the Trumpet Call of God. In these two cases and only these two it’s the sound of the trumpet that’s important, not the trumpet itself, and in both cases the sound is said to be coming from God. It's like a train whistle....pheeeeep - it's time to go!! Also, the post Trib view cuts out the Bema seat judgement where believers are rewarded and the marriage of the Lamb.
Greetings to you!!
You describe exactly what I am saying for YEARS (since 1994. when I converted) - and I am trying to explain to my pre-tribulation friends that the word MEET mean what the brother in the video said.
In our language (I am from Balkan, sought Europe, slavic language) it literary means what you describe....
God bless you! 🧡
And the rest brothers and sisters who does not (yet) see it 🙂🧡
Amen!!!
It greatly saddens me that he has to mention John MacArthur, who denies that the atonement is through the blood of Jesus!!! plus, he tells people that they can take the mark of the beast and still get saved!!! John MacArthur is a wolf!!!!!!!!!!
I use to be post trib...then I discovered the truth of pre-trib...Hallelujah.
Since the living and remaining can never precede the fallen-asleep [dead] (1Th 4:15), perhaps you can explain how the living can possibly be raptured before the dead whom Jesus promised to resurrect within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54).
@@alanlietzke5738 they’re not. You're having reading comprehension problems.
Amen me too
According to God's Word. John 15 vs 20
"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;"
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Comfort yourselves with these scriptures, not with an utterly impossible and oxy moron "pre tribulation" notion.
What truth? Lol there's no pre trib doctrine...there's no truth its not going to happen as awesome as it would be.
I am pre-trib. Revelations 3:6 the Church is still being addressed. Then in 3:9 the Church no longer being addressed. There will be those who will be saved and will not take the mark of the beast. They will die as martyrs. We must live our lives everyday as Christ has taught us. Be prepared and pray for those who are lost and for those who have rejected Christ. I just finished a very indepth Bible study with Dr. David Jeremiah Revelation series.
There’s many verses that you haven’t read Dr. Jeremiah was only one man show revelation seven verse 13 chapter 12 verses 13 through 17 chapter 13 verse 10, chapter 14 verse 12 Daniel eight verses 19 through 24. Those are just a few the Saints will be here.
Also, John sees the church in revelation 5 verse 9. Tribulation starts in chapter 6.
The church is on earth after Revelation 4. Those John saw in Revelation 7 are the church. The angel specifically said they had come out of great tribulation. The book of Revalation is not a book with a linear timeline....straight timeline with one thing happening one after another. Revelation is a circular book showing multiple things happening at the same time.
The assembly of believers is only mentioned prior because of the letters to the churches. Bad argument to base you belief in pre-trib on.
Why should human understanding create a doctrine and teach it because the church is not mentioned after the 4th chapter of Revelation
I appreciate the fellow who starts this discussion by appealing to humility on all sides. That is wise. Every position on this topic has problem passages.
Sadly, that same fellow also continuously refers to the Rapture as “the secret rapture”, which is not a term that any pre-Trib teacher I have heard has used. I have heard a LOT of pre-Trib critics use it in their presentations. I’m not saying NO pre-Trib person has used the term, but I have never encountered it except from the mouth of those attacking the pre-Trib position. Such rhetorical devices shouldn’t be necessary if the critic’s case is strong enough to carry the day.
Moe, Larry and Curly. No clue. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians will be gone
Watch and pray that you will be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Lord. For the elects sake I have shortened those days.
The “elect” are the Jews
Indeed. The elect will be there. Jesus clearly stated as much. And false teaching about a pre-trib rapture is why many of them will be deceived into not believing what they're experiencing is the end times tribulation.
That’s only one verse and it’s out of context. God’s word is one letter to us.
the elect and the Church are two different things. The church will be in Heaven having been spared GOD's wrath.
There's going to be a LOT of people SHOCKED when the LORD makes His GLORIOUS APPEARING. At the end of the tribulation period, the hour of testing upon the earth, Christ will return with His Bride.
Rapture doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830:
1. John Nelson Darby invented the false doctrine of the Rapture 1830-1833 AD and popularized it in 1850 to which it infected us today. While Morgan Edwards had also invented the doctrine in a college essay in 1744 AD, his work was isolated, forgotten and irrelevant as an etiology of the modern popularity of pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine. Darby invented the doctrine without any influence or reliance on Edwards.
2. Morgan Edwards wrote this short essay as a paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744. After he immigrated to the USA, the essay was published in Philadelphia in 1788. It is clear that his school paper went as unnoticed as his formal publication in 1788 AD. While Edwards may in fact be the earliest person on earth to invent the pre-tribulation rapture, it is equally clear that Darby invented the same doctrine in 1830 AD and made it popular 100 years later in 1850 AD. "The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years.: I say, somewhat more; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's " appearing in the air" (1 Thes. iv, 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many " mansions in the father's house of God" (John xiv: 2), and to disappear during the foresaid period of time. ... V. That spot of earth which. Christ will make the seat of his governments Mount Zion, in Jerusalem. Jerusalem and the temple will be rebuilt, as we shall prove by and by and that temple will be the house of Christ kingdom. ... VI. The risen and changed saints shall reign with Christ on earth a thousand years. I do not mean that all will be kings; for some are to be Christ' s priests, some judges, some rulers over cities, some over his household, some over his goods, (as wee shall see anon) and some his special chorister and musicians. (Two Academical Exercises on Subjects Bearing the following Titles; Millennium, Last-Novelties, Morgan Edwards, 1744 AD, 1788 AD)
3. Darby notes that the doctrine "popped into his head" in 1830 AD. Before this, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.
4. Darby is one of the founders of the "Plymouth Brethren" movement at the same time he first conceived his rapture theology. Therefore the Plymouth Brethren are inseparable from Rapture theology and always will be and should be avoided.
5. Modern influences of Darby include Dallas Theological Seminary, Bob Jones University, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack Van Impe and Harold Camping, the Scofield Reference Bible.
6. Darby's Rapture theology has infected almost every conservative protestant church, except for a few groups like the Churches of Christ, who rejected it as a non-Biblical doctrine and have denounced it ever since like all other man made doctrines.
The Great Tribulation of the Bible is 70AD ... The Total Destruction of Jerusalem ... Why ... Their Rejection of Christ and His Crucifixion ... This completed the 70th week of Daniel ... think about this ... why would God postpone the 70th week for an additional 2023 years + when the first 69 were in succession ... ??? God is not a God of Confusion ... God would not make it so hard to understand ... Not only was Jerusalem destroyed but it started a year or two before 70AD with the destruction of Every Major City in Israel ... I would say that was a Great Tribulation ... The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army Destroying the Temple and Jerusalem ... Jesus came to Fullfil their laws and warn the Jews and teach them and others to become Fishers of Men to carry on The Gospel into the Future ...
Not at all true about John Nelson Darby -- the first century Christians (including the original apostles and also the apostle Paul) and the early church fathers who followed them into the next century, believed in the pre-tribulation Rapture of "the church" ("church" being defined as the collective body of believers in Jesus as Lord and Savior, regardless of denomination or sect). At the end of the second century and continuing into the third century (a.d.), a second school of Christian thought began to emerge in Alexandria, Egypt, which began to compete against the teachings of the first school founded in Antioch, Syria, by the apostle Paul et. al. The Alexandrian school was steeped in Greek philosophy as well as gnosticism and other heretical practices/beliefs. Early philosophers/theologicans like Philo and Origen embraced the Alexandrian teachings rather than the true teachings from the Antiochian school. Augustine came on the scene about 100 years (or so) after Origen, and Augustine embraced Origen's teachings. Augustine then developed the initial concept of an amillennial or allegorical (instead of a literal) 1000-year reign of the Lord upon the earth. Augustine's teachings were embraced by what came to be the Roman Catholic church . . . and that church was the "only game in town" from about 500 a.d. ("ish") until 1517, when John Calvin nailed his 95 theses (originally in Latin) on the door of the church/cathedral at Wittenburg, Germany . . . launching the Protestant Reformation against the RCC. Dr. Andrew Marshall Woods (senior pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church near Houston, Texas) often states in his teachings that Augustine was probably the most influential person in Christian history . . . but NOT in a good way). Throughout the Protestant Reformation and continuing even to the present day, Augustine's false teachings (which were captured in his book "The City of God," have invaded the Christian church collective, being disguised as "Reformed Theology" concepts and theology. In the 1800's, while convalescing at home for the better part of a year following a serious riding accident, John Nelson Darby spent numerous hours studying the Bible and discovered the errors in Augustine's teachings on the topic of the Rapture of the church compared to the biblical text. Darby revitalized the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine which was the original doctrine taught by the original apostles (including Paul) and the early church fathers in the second and early third centuries -- until the gnostic heresies of the Alexandrian school and Augustine took over and became the more dominant theology in the Christian communities around the world.
the truth in the Lord proclaimed!!! and it brings true comfort to those who seek the truth and know it!!! brilliant!!! absolutely brilliant discerning of the Holy Scriptures for His glory...
Very good point "being left as saved" not being swept away and gone. It makes sense!
Im pre-trib but it really dont matter when as long as He comes! Just stay ready!
I graduated from Calvary Chapel Ministers Bible College.
Jack Hibbs is my Pastor.
Any pastor that knows the Scriptures is pretrib. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians are gone
@@georgeo785 I know the scriptures as well as anyone I know. I’ve got multiple degrees and I can understand difficult concepts on some level even outside my fields of study. That said, with all the years I’ve studied the pre trib rapture-all the books, all the teachings, all the textual studies-I’ve never been able to get it to reasonably harmonize with an honest reading of scripture. There’s too much stretching the text, too many disingenuous acrobatics around objections.
Ultimately, I could be wrong and the pre trib rapture could be right. I mean, God can do whatever he wants. Just don’t put all your eggs in that basket. It’s chock full of holes.
I got tired listening to this teacher, they stick their view on one event No Rapture, one big Return). He’s so nervous trying to disprove pretrib and doesn’t go over Jewish salvation as a people! Day of the Lord not mentioned in first video. Trying to review for a soon coming class that will be team taught.
@@georgeo785
Why not share the scriptures that you think so obviously prove pre-trib rapture?
@@georgeo785 At one time Jack Hibbs was post trib so he knows both sides of the argument... To many contortions to make post trib work. I am Pre-Trib and will keep my lamp filled with oil the whole time. (I seriously don't understand how people can get so wound up about this.)
The word "keep" in Revelation 3:10 is from the Greek word tereo which means to guard or protect by keeping the eye upon, it does NOT mean to remove. When Jesus is talking about the great tribulation in the Olivet discourse He mentions false messiahs, wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famines and says, YOU will be hated by all nations for my namesake and be handed over to the authorities to be beaten and tortured and even put to death, but the one who endures to the end will be saved. (notice this is NOT God's wrath, Jesus says 'you will be hated for my namesake.' These are believers, not the wicked that God will pour His wrath out on, that comes later) Jesus then gives a warning sign. Jesus after telling of all the terrible stuff coming says, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation as spoken of by Daniel...flee." That's the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week. So this indicates that the time of great tribulation doesn't actually start until the three and half year mark. The anti-christ doesn't break the treaty until the half-way point. Warning signs always come before the thing they are warning about. So, if Jesus when describing the great tribulation mentions false messiahs, wars and famines etc, and then gives the abomination of desolation as the warning sign, it means that the tribulation actually starts after the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week. Then Jesus says, ""Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon not give its light." This is the sign that Joel 2:31 says, comes right before the Day of the Lord. So, if we put aside our pre-conceived ideas about a pre-trib rapture and really look at scripture, we find that the time of Great Tribulation starts at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week, and then immediately after the tribulation the sun will be darkened and the moon not give its light and according Joel 2:31 then comes the Day of the Lord. I know, I too grew up (spiritually) on the Pre-trib Rapture, but look at scripture with an open mind. By the way, there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that says the Holy Spirit residing in the Church is the restrainer of the anti-christ. BUT, Jesus talking about the time of Great tribulation says, "...It'll be the worst time since the beginning of the world until then. Daniel 12:1 says there will come a time of trouble on Israel that will be the worst time since the beginning of nations until then. These two times have to be the same time because they completely overlap. AND Daniel says this time won't come until the Archangel Michael rises (or goes back to Heaven) and then that terrible time will come; Michael is the restrainer of the anti-christ, not the Holy Spirit in the raptured church.
No one knows the day or hour. That tells me to be ready. Amen
Pre Trib rapture believer. Still we are one in Christ. Freedom of choice is yours. 🙏💚❤️💙
You are not in Christ, for if you were you would have the truth, for Jesus IS the Truth, the way, the life and the light of the world.
Good luck to you if you’re waiting for the great tribulation, I’m waiting for the rapture of the church.
If you want to go through the Tribulation Period, have fun because I won’t
You must be planning on dying soon?
Thank you someone that knows their Scripture. I made a long pretrib comment and proved them wrong and they removed it
@@georgeo785 how many times are you going to post this?
John 16 vs 33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
So you're not a follow of Jesus then @williamrussolesi6052?
Jesus told us Christians, His followers, that we would have tribulation.
Only those who reject Jesus will not be persecuted..... lest they persecute themselves... LOL
Hi, brothers and sisters In Christ. I agree that the post tribulation make more sense.
Hal Lindsay is much needed here to carefully explain events in a calm manner. He has studied Eschatology for 70 years.
I don't buy your argument from authority. With all due respect to Mr. Lindsay, his authority on the subject is not greater than that of Jesus, who explicitly laid out a timeline for us in the Olivet discourse when he said "after the tribulation of those days". Neither is he a greater authority on the subject than the apostle Paul who places the transformation of the church and her rescue as immediately subsequent to the resurrection of the dead saints, or John who quotes Jesus as saying that the saints will be raised up on the "last day".
Thank you! This teaching is so good. I've been on this journey,alone, trying to understand the truth of the end times. But in my heart and understanding of what I read myself it seemed a pre-trib rapture explanation seemed almost ridiculous (not to be sounding proud about my belief). You haven't even taught all of your points you wanted to make and it seems so clear to me now.
It is outside the character and nature of the goodness of God to punish the righteous with the unrighteous. Any punishment is a slap to the face of the One who bought believers with His perfect blood and healed us with His broken body.😢 sad teachings. Sad days of great deceptions.
"I'm going to give you 13 reasons to doubt..."
It rains on the just and the unjust, the sun shines on the just and the unjust 😉 tribulation, just and unjust
We shall go through tribulation for our own benefit on our journey to Him 🙏
@@earlclep1 I believe that fits properly. The person above in the comments was saying why would God judge the believers with ubelievers.....saying it is like God slapping us in the face. But we have to remember that god is judging this world spiritually in different ways as we speak........ and we are all mingled together on earth. Also, the Bible says not to pull up the tares till the end........ At the end, GOD IS THE SIFTER.......................
If your saved, it really doesn’t make any difference, if you are pre trib, or believe we’ll be called home in the middle, or post tribulation. Revelation, 3:10 Because thou has kept the word, of my patience, I will also keep the from, the hour of temptation, which shall come upon, all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Revelation 3:10 Jesus said….. I will keep you FROM the hour of testing that comes upon the whole earth. Not OUT OF but FROM.
Interesting parallel use of the same Greek language from revelation 3 found in John 17. Jesus prayed nor that we woild be "taken out of the world" but that we would be protected during the time of persecution that was to come.
One thing is crystal clear from the Bible. We are exempt from God's wrath, not man's.
That is correct, but the tribulation is not Gods wrath, it is Satans, in the last 3 and half years on believers. 2:38
God loves us all, but he will allow us to be tested. Matthew 24:13 but the one who endures TO THE END will be saved.
The first half really has no Biblical name, but the 2nd half was named by Jesus. He called it the Great Tribulation, and said it would begin with the Abomination of Desolation (Matt. 24:15-21).
Revelation identify its duration as 1260 days, or 42 months or 3 1/2 years, all equivalent periods of time beginning in the middle of Daniel’s 70th Week.
Revelation 13:5,7
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation
Jesus told us the wicked weeds and tares will be taken first in Mathew
I totally agree. and this is how I have always believed, based on what I read in Scripture. Thank you so much for your discussion!
But if as the discussion concludes that ''it makes no sense for Christ to come gather his people then come back down again 7 years later i.e. arguing for a post tribulation ''rapture''-Then how can it make sense for Christ come [post 'Tribulation'] gather up his people then all come back down again immediately for the Milllennium Reign on earth?
Wouldn't it make sense that those raptured 7 years previously would return with him to rule over the survivors of the tribulation for a millennium?
Doesn't it make more sense that the true believers and righteous would not have to suffer the antichrist and the Tribulation? Because true believers don't need any more suffering to turn them into believers.
Let's face it, is there anyone going to be left in any doubt by the end of the Tribulation after the plagues 25% of the world dead, the attack on Isreal etc, so how can it be possible that Christ comes like thief in the night?
I think the post Tribbers are n denial and scared.
And to argue that it is better to be ''left behind'' seems to be opposed to all logic.
Can you ever imagine praying to be left behind? I can't
Yes of course the Noah's Ark analogy holds but not in every detail otherwise it would be a carbon copy and not an analogy would it?
IF there is any doubt, which there clearly is in on this issue-then shouldn't we go with logic?
And logic tells me that it has to be pre Tribulation otherwise
I think what is important to understand is that the emphasis should be on the resurrection. The resurrection and the rapture happen at the same time but the dead in Christ are resurrected first and then we that remain. The resurrection is a big deal. Christ was resurrected and that is a big deal. If it wasn't for that we wouldn't have a hope.
Amen!
They are both the Rapture as Jesus come for those saved in the church age that trusted and had Faith in what Jesus did on the cross and faith in His blood and His resurrection.
rapture is the ressurection and ascension of the living..
I will pray that all of you will have a wonderful time while you're going through the GREAT TRIBULATION. HAVE Fun
Another biblical and historical illiterate.
Do you actually believe that they want to go through the Great tribulation and, therefore, they don't believe in the pre-tribulation?
you mock God?
You have no choice of when you will go to meet the Lord other than suicide. So don't be so crass.
You'll be there, what a dumb thing to say to suffering children of God, have fun, Are you serious? Is this funny for you,? Repent you carnal human being,
Jesus said we would suffer for his names sake. Our suffering will not be from God’s wrath.
I’m of the same view ever since I 1st read it back 25 years ago.
The Church are both Jewish ( 12 tribes 144,000) and all believers.
Also most people miss REVELATION CHAPTER 13
Look what happens BEFORE THE MARK.
The 2nd BEAST “ ORDERED”
MAN ( humans) to MAKE
An IMAGE of the 1st BEAST that had sustained a fatal wound YET LIVED….
and those who do not worship it , the IMAGE of the 1st Beast ( genetically engineered by man inspired by Satan) if they didn’t worship the Image that was bought to life ( false 🔥- spirit) to be killed.
THEN EVERYONE HAD TO TAKE THE MARK.
MATTHEW CHAPTER 25
5 Foolish virgins and 5 wise. Note they were all ASLEEP THEN THEY TRIMMED THEIR LAMPS.
EVEN BACK IN DANIEL CHAPTER 12. We are told Blessed are those who make it to 1335 days.
When we read from verses 10 onwards to verse 13.
The daily sacrifice is Christian’s serving our fellow man for JESUS. A time will come when people will refuse to listen .
1,290 days from the stopping of the daily sacrifice ( Christian’s choose to follow the HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM RATHER THAN GIVE INTO THEIR FLESH . SET UP the abomination of desolation.
If your still alive then you will be either martyred or imprisoned.
There are so many scriptures in the OLD TESTAMENT telling what is to happen.
To many to mention here
Paul stated that we shall meet the Lord in the air, his foot doesnt touch down on the mount of Olives when he comes to judge the nations. Also read Daniel Ch:12
Great teaching but please try to speak much slower very difficult to concentrate
Just set the speed to 0.75
Can always pause it, when needed
@@annmarie2964 exactly he sounds normal at .75. Christian Ben Shapiro.
@@amnobody117 😢😢🎉
This is great teaching but the guy in the middle needs to slow down. I found him difficult to listen to he was speeding so fast.
You guys are spot on. I used to be a pre- triber, but the math wasn't adding up according to scripture, and it bothered me. In recent years, the Lord broke it down to me verbatim exactly like you are saying. I did not hear this from a man, I heard it in the spirit. I've been trying to explain it to people, some get it, but some are to endoctrinated. Also, the brother mentioned the gospel being preached all over the world. I always tell people we are the other part of the world duh. The gospel did not start in the USA, it started in Jerusalem. I hope the understanding of bellivers will be opened to this truth.
pre trib not only lacks scriptural support.... it finds itself in clear conflict with scripture.
The order of events is simple:
Deception
Apostasy
Antichrist
Abomination
Tribulation worse than anything ever says Daniel
Jesus confirms not only worse ever.... but that will ever be.
So the tribulation is UNPRECEDENTED and UNSURPASSED.
Immediately AFTER the tribulation:
the Sun and Moon go Dark... even the most hardened heart cannot miss this.
THEN they shall see Jesus coming in the sky in great power and glory
Taking vengeance on all those who have rejected him.
Interesting that that the kings of the earth say "hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne"
Whilst the kings think it's the wrath in chapter 15 and 16 we see that the vials are the wrath
Pre tribbers find it necessary to make the scriptures mean something they do not , to the point of partially quoting.
For example: "That day shall not come unless there is a falling away FIRST.... AND the Man of Sin [antichrist presumably] be revealed.
That's the guy that sits As God in the temple Of God claiming he Is God.
Has the antichrist been revealed?
Then the return of Christ is not near.
Furthermore... it is clear that there can be no rapture without a resurrection FIRST.
{no rapture without resurrection}.
Since Christ's 2nd. coming/gathering is After the tribulation, a pre tribulation rapture contradicts scripture.
A quick read of these scriptures will make it very clear.
Daniel 7 and 9.
Mathew 13, 24
Mark 13
Luke 17, 21
Acts 1 and 2
I Corinthians 15
All of I and II Thessalonians
I and II Peter.
K
I found The Truth in same way you described. I however now live in the "other parts of the world" the remote mountains of an island in the Philippines. Thanks to phones no one hardly on earth doesn't have access to the gospel. These people may not have running water, electricity, indoor plumbing, modern tools , access to education, shoes or even enough to eat every day BUT everyone of them have a phone. Access to The Truth if they choose to seek God, no problem. 😉
You use to be correct. Pre tribulation is the proper understanding of Scripture.
Don't read the Bible, STUDY IT!
Who are the following verses talking about?
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Hint: There isn't a Gentile in the group 😉
#2 69 weeks have been fulfilled and the church wasn't even a thing yet.
Not appointed to wrath . Matt 24 is not rapture John 14 is . The Thessalonians thought that they were in the tribulation because of the persecution of the Romans they were receiving thought they missed the rapture Paul was straightening them out. When he finished, he said comfort one another that you didn’t miss the rapture not comfort one another that you’re going to go through the tribulation just makes no sense.
The gospel started in genesis
Those that are surprised like a thief are those that are,not,ready the lost and the jews
Omg....this guy spoke at speed beyond what most people could follow....and kept apologizing for his stance and beliefs that were based on solid facts. Speaking calmy and confidently would really help your presentation.
Definitely, he needs to work on this, a lot of listeners are from different nations
I think the reason people want to believe in a pretribulation rapture is because it would be easier to sign up new Christians. It would be a harder sell telling people they would have to go through the worst persecution and destruction in history. I know the rapture is after the tribulation. Everyone's faith and loyalty will be tested and that makes sense to attain everlasting life.
Now this is what you call what Paul warned about . TWISTING SCRIPTURE
If you have not got salvation, he's not coming back for you, just keep looking for his coming!
This guy says that we’re in the tribulation, that’s not true. The great tribulation will be a time like never before.
Keep in mind, they are using modern translations of scripture which can be deceptive in themselves.
Jesus warned about false prophets in the end time, and that is who you're listening to.
If you look up John 3:16 in every Christian translation made, you'll see that they all mean the exact same thing.
that was outstanding !! Several key points you brought out that had not occurred to me before, but I have always thought to myself, "how many last trumpets are there". That never made sense to me either.
thats good i agree it's at the last trumpet.pre trib dont study scripture properly
If you read 1 Thessalonians 4 16
God himself will decent from heaven (with the trump of God) the dead in Christ will rise first and he is alive and remains……(encourage one another with these words)
Not the 7th angel mentioned in revelation 6. They are different trumpets.
Suddenly in a twinkling of an eye, at last Trump, the dead in Christ will rise first……
Trumpets are blown on many Jewish feasts. The Trump of God was at Pentecost. Trumps are blown at rosh Hashanah in thr fall which is 'the feasts of no man knows' ....also feasts of tabernacles. Let the holy spirit guide you and pray for wisdom. Rev 3.10
One Major Reason to Believe in the Rapture: the Book of Revelation devotes four chapters to this topic. Chapter six describes the reaction of every lost person left behind on Earth as they run for the mountains and flee the portals of Heaven and God. Chapter Seven introduces us to the numberless multitude who were saved from the Great Tribulation.
It literally says they went thru the great tribulation and Jesus said he will come back 1 time not twice
Problem is you don't see the difference between the faithful and unfaithful saved
@jefffrazier2465
The coffee this man drinks must be on the whole other level!!
Ha ha! I changed the playback speed to .75 so I could keep up!
He is to hyper, his is good with scripture, but slow down a gear.
He’s WAY BEYOND drinking. This cat mainlines it.
Post trib pre wrath is what the Bible teaches.
Monte Judah of Lon and Lamb Ministry has an EXCELLENT teaching on this subject...
Scriptural and easily understandable...
No church doctrine nonsense...
This was an excellent discussion. Some might say it nit picky whether you are pre-trib or not, but it has major consequences. Consider those who believe in a such who eventually finding themselves living with in the persecutions and violence of the tribulation. Would that experience not test their faith and many fall by the wayside during those times. We must be prepared that we could very suffer and die because of your faith, as many in Africa do this very day. Would the Western Christian be that seed that fell on good soil and resist the heresy of those times? Would we deny Jesus to save our hides? One doesn’t know until experiencing such suffering. Even Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and he was already told that he would do so. Who will we fair in such circumstances? We must be prepared for no rapture and suffer the tribulation.
according to God's Word, I believe in the pre-trib Rapture
God's Word says nothing about a pre-trib rapture.
Then you know God's word. Not many on this podcast do. They are clueless. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians will be gone. They removed my long pretrib comment because I proved them wrong.
Here is a quick riddle for you. What is one thing that all Christian groups assert, which - if that assertion is valid - involves a logical contradiction (ln particular, the law of non-contradiction)? Here is the answer: "We derive our doctrinal stance from the Scriptures." Every doctrinal position cannot be correct. Humility goes a long way; we must all go there first.
@@kamikaze4928 it also says nothing about the word the Bible, therefore the Bible doesn’t exist
The Bible teaches that Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath. But what if the first few years of the Tribulation are not God's wrath, but the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist? Revelation chapter 6 clearly says that God's wrath begins at some point after the midpoint of the Tribulation. That means Christians will be here for the first four or five years.
We need to apply 2 Timothy 2:15 or rightly dividing the Word of Truth to understand Scripture because there are passages in the bible that are specifically for a group of people. We can't apply all passages to all people because we will only be confused.
These guys are clueless. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians are gone.
He’s very good at explaining this I’ve been looking for him for a while someone to explain it
Revelation 12:15 says that the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood which can relate to Matthew 24 comparing to the days of Noe. Which his flood is of Lies! Earlier in Rev Chapter 12 it says that their was a war in heaven and Michael and his angels cast out Satan and his angels to the earth from heaven and they rejoiced in heaven but Woe to the inhabiters of the earth. 2 Thess 2 says that the man of sin will stand in the holy place claiming to be God. In Rev 2:8 & 3:7 it says we will be delivered up to the Synagogue of Satan for Christs name sake and be persecuted. Satan shall come upon the whole world to try and deceive them that dwell upon the earth. (Rev 3:10) We will be here when Satan is revealed in his time tho his spirit is hard at work as is the Holy Spirit… Got to armor up with the Armor of God in Ephesians 6 and stand our ground until Christ returns. Be as the Church of Smyrna and Philadelphia which are the only 2 that Christ found no fault with in Rev Ch. 2:8 & 3:7 that stood against the synagogue of Satan in the name of Christ!
REMEMBER THE SABBATH
TO KEEP IT HOLY
Turn thy foot from your own bidding! Amen!
Please don't forget1Cor.15:50-58. You should also teach where this Rature teaching came from Mary MacDonald,John Darby, and Scofield. I believe this teaching for many years until I really studied the book of Revelation and kept seeing the word Overcomer right up to the end of the book. I also have been blessed to listen to many good teachers like Jesse Gistand , Bruce Gore,Charles Balwin etc.
There were many pre-trib rapturists among the Puritans. The story about the girl's vision as convincing Darby is as mythical as that he learned his teaching from Jesuits! Use your head.
Actually it came from the Holy Ghost in the original manuscripts.....via the Harpazo teaching in II Thessalonians. Harpazo is Greek in those manuscripts for "snatched away or taken by force".
The Rapture teaching came long before those people.
Have a nice day.
Well, those “good teachers” are wrong! Look in the O.T. and see how God saved His people from His coming wrath. Noah and the Flood, as well as Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah! Try saying that those examples are irrelevant!
@@valindamcqueen2443 😂
Listen to Chuck Missler, he refutes that.
Jesus said it as clear as glass , he spoke to his disciples about the great tribulation and said immediately following these days look for the coming of the son f man. That means after period.
I was born in St Paul fifteen days before Israel was reborn as a nation May 14 1948. My dad took me to a Pentecostal Church after he had-me circumcised on the eighth day. I was offered up to the Lord and Satan has been trying to kill me since the day I was born, as my mom had scarlet fever when I was born. I bled to death when I was 8. God has been protecting me more times than I can remember. I almost got killed by two tornadoes. My mom rescued me when I was thee, watching it come directly at me. When I was about 4 my dad rescued me at big lake in South Dakota as a water spout tornado was coming directly at me. It hit the water trough where I had been standing and I still remember all the little fish raining afterwards. I’ve been in more car wrecks than I can remember. God kept me from harm for two years in Vietnam, from September 7 1968 until October 28 1970.
Notice again in Revelation 4:1, the trumpet.
Revelation 4:1
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
You three did a great job. I’ve been studying revelation for 20 years. I used to listen to it every day and the tapes,, and the man in the middle spent a lot of time going through all the verses that pertain to any return of Christ I used to be a pre trib,,the a mid trib, but now I’m definitely a post trip one of the things you could’ve said that helps me and may help others is that verse it says where sin abounds grace much more abounds, that is so true. God‘s word is always true.
Christ went about preaching the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM. MATT. 3:2, Luke 9:2. The disciples were sent to preach also the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom could not be our gospel of the church because Christ had not been sent to the cross yet. Our gospel is 1 COR. 15:1 So when you read MATT. 24:14 Christ said when THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preach in all the world then the end shall come. REV. 14:6 I saw an angel with the everlasting gospel to PREACH to them that dwell on the earth. So that means the gospel of the kingdom being preach at the start of the thousand year reign. The gospel of the kingdom was only preach to the Jews not to the church. MATT.10:6 preach only to the lost sheep of Israel. All verses in MATT. 24 points to the gathering of Israel not the church which had not been started yet. MATT. 24:31 he will send his angels with the sound of a trumpet and gather his elect. ISA. 27:12-13 it shall come to past in that day, that the Lord shall beat off the channel of the great river unto a stream of Egypt and ye shall be GATHERED. ONE BY ONE. O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. 12 verse. And it shall come to past that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN. and they shall come which were ready to perish, come to worship the Lord in JERUSALEM. this is almost word for word of what is written in MATT. 24. When the Gentile church was proclaimed to be a replacement for the Jewish church in ACT. 13:46 Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said it was necessary that the word of God should be preach to you first, you judge yourself unworthy of EVERLASTING LIFE. We turn to the Gentiles. Then Paul preach about a rapture for the church, which is to be taken out of this world by FORCE. We are now gather by the Spirit ROM. 8:11. The Spirit of him that raise up Christ from the dead dwell in you shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELL IN YOU. the church will not need no angels to gather us , because the SPIRIT OF GOD IN US SHALL GATHER AND change us just like Christ. Those in MATT 24 will still be mortal Jews. Matt. 24 is only talking about God moving back to Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles come into the church. ROM. 11:15 I believe I can prove that every verse in Matt. 24 is taking about God saving the Jews in the natural, But I want add all this right now because it is just too long of a study, but I will prove my statements if asked. There is an early rapture of the church, we are separate from the natural Jews that God shall also save.
Very well written and I totally agree with every word you’ve said. Excellent. God Bless.
The rapture is just when Jesus gathers his elect from the four winds. It's the same thing, the same event as his 2nd coming. Please share one passage in context that supports a pretrib rapture. Thanks.
Absolutely, he must divide the word for understanding. He is cramming it all together. Mathew 24 is about the Jews.
Thank you. I have copied your points to study over a coffee later. Being simple minded, I fell off when they ranted about our wanting to be 'left behind' as in the days of Noah ! Even as he read the scriptures it sounded perfectly clear that the left behind were the judged and dead. Talk about messing with your head - sounded á la Whoopy Goldberg twisting the word almost! CHRIST IS my ark; and we were not appointed to wrath, and so we can be comforted. Notwithstanding, I'm confident we'll all see each other in the clouds during the Rapture 😉having escaped from God's wrath, forever more in the mighty presence of Yeshua Ha Mashiach. Bless you.
I'm a Canadian astronomer. I believe I found the first 4 seals in the heavens. My last video shows this.
Finally! Someone who interprets the Word of God with the plain sense of meaning. Also the book of Revelation speaks several times of MARTYRS of the antichrist for refusing to take the mark of the beast. This is PLAIN in the Book of Revelation. Spirit born children of God will be present t when antichrist is revealed and persecutes them.
Those are Tribulation Saints, not The Church.
@ Joy Mahiko
Do we realise that all the things prophesied in Revelation happened in the first century during the Jewish-Roman War (66 to 73 AD) ?
HOW can those pastors who studied theology and I guess history too deceive us all that much , projecting all those things into the future , disconnecting all prophetic texts from their proper historical context ?
The beast and Babylon were symbols of Rome and Jerusalem .
Nothing to do withour modern era !!!!!!!
Do we realise that Jesus said at his coming , there would be women GRINDING AT THE MILL ?? Present time ??
9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@topcatcoolio8807 Wrath?? LOL ... we're not talking about WRATH here buddy! We're talking about "tribulation". Try to stay on topic. ;)
@@ChaplainBillEvans "Those are Tribulation Saints, not The Church." .... that is the most insane, non sensical, ridiculous, laughable thing I've ever heard. The saints are the church!!! The church are the followers of Jesus. Oh you spirit of antichrist you. LOL
In a post Trib , why would we be brought up and right back down, just makes no sense to me!
1 Thess. 4:15 shows us how the rapture cannot happen without the resurrection happening first. 1 Thess. 4:15-18 fits like a hand and glove with Matt. 24:29-31. It all happens on the last day, immediately after the Great Tribulation.
He that endures to the end shall be saved.
These 2 witnesses of scripture seal it for me
2 Thessalonians 2:1,2 says the day of the lord and our gathering to him are the same day.
The parable of the wheat and tares says they both grow together till the harvest. The tares are gathered and burned in the fire then the wheat is gathered into the barn.
So what your saying is what Jesus did means nothing then??? He that endures to the end shall be saved are the Tribulation saints not the church, we are already saved by the blood of Jesus, we are not appointed to wrath. We are taken out of the way as we the church are part of the restrainer the Holy Spirit.
@@genesisauctions Jesus said, in this world, you will have tribulation. So expect tribulation. What makes Christians so much more special today than all the Christians that have been persecuted and killed over the last 2,000 years?
@@kamikaze49289For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@kamikaze4928 Amen amen amen!! That's what I preach over and over. Christians have gone through tribulation and persecution for 2000 years, beginning with John the Baptist. Therefore it is not possible for Jesus to be able to go back and save them from being killed if they've already been killed.
And even up to this day, Christians are going through tribulation. Right up until the last day there will be tribulation and persecution.
Tribulation applies to Christians. If there were no Christians around, if Jesus took everyone away before they went through tribulation, then there would be no tribulation at all. It just wouldnt exist. But sadly, these pre tribbers lack common sense and cannot see that "pre trib" is an oxy moron.
@@topcatcoolio8807 Wrath?? LOL ... we're not talking about WRATH here buddy! We're talking about "tribulation". Try to stay on topic. ;)
After 50 years, I still can’t find Rapture mentioned in the scripture.
In Greek it is harpadzo, in Latin it is Rapturo, in English it is "caught up"
Read the Bible. Those "Snatched up"!
Read 1 and 2 Thesalonians
May I suggest finding Dr Andy Woods and Dr JB Hixson. You'll be blessed by listening to them.
I went to a school that taught the Pre-Trib view. I've never really studied since Bible College, just assumed I was taught correctly. I do recall questiong the view based on my reading of 2 Thess, plus, Matthew 24 which was discounted as not in the church dispensation. I recently spent weeks looking at the topic, as I'm retired and have more time. I finished my study believing I was taught incorrectly. I came to the same conclusion as you are teaching and I felt it couldn't be more clear. Matthew 24 is the longest text on the topic, taught by Jesus himself. All other passages only deal with a small question and rely on Matt 24 as the bedrock. Where would the disciples have learned about end time events? They had to learn from Jesus, so their understanding would have to be based on what Jesus taught. Thanks for doing this teaching! Man you talk fast!!!!
@Scott Ranck I had to chuckle at your last line of your post...I'm sure you remember the old photographs that you you could slow down or speed up the speed of the revolutions of the record, yep,, you got it, 78 all the way! God bless you! By the way, I agree with you on the post-trib rapture!🤣🙏🤗💞
"Bible Colleges" only teach you their individual denominations doctrine...
Very little is taught about ACTUAL "church" history...
A lot of verses in the Scriptures are allegorized or skipped over completely...
Conversely SOME schools do teach a lot about the word, but they throw in ONE little word or phrase that turns their teachings into falsehoods, either intentional or accidental due to just regurgitating what THEY had been taught by the SAME institutions...
Guys, Here is our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Anyone that knows Scripture is pretrib. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. We are gone
@@georgeo785 how many times are you going to post this?
I am pre tribulation all the way. God has not appointed us to wrath. He would not beat up his Bride prior to the wedding ceremony.
In Revelation 19:11-21 Jonh wrote what he saw about the Second coming of Christ, until someone find me on those verses the Rapture, what Paul wrote on 1 Thes 4:16-18, I will keep believing in a Rapture before the judgement (The Day Of The Lord)
He who has the son of God has the witness in himself!
Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 says that "those who have fallen asleep IN HIM will be taken" not those that are going to be judged.
2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the
Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the Rapture because the Church is clearly the
biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler.
Those are just 3 of MANY Bible references that support the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
I was raised in a Pentecostal church that taught pre-trib exclusively. Over the years I changed to post-trib. I have sense altered it again to the pre-wrath rapture which IMO unifies the end time events all throughout the New Testament.
This is truly a strange thing...
Can we discuss:
2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
This was written before there was a "New Testament" (there would be no "New Testament" for at least 100 years after the ascension of Yeshua)...
Therefore, Yeshua the Messiah and ALL the Apostles taught from the "Old Testament"...
Yeshua the Messiah came speaking only His Father's Words...
Where is there a rapture of ANY sort in the "Old Testament"?
There is NONE...
Moses and all the animals WENT THROUGH the flood, but were kept safe in the ark...
LOT and most of his family were pulled away from the cities before destruction and they saw them being destroyed from afar (They were not taken up to heaven, they never left from the earth)...
EVERY Hebrew saw the plagues of Egypt and were even subjected to the first four of them...
They were delivered by the mighty hand of YeHoVaH through the Red Sea...
They received GRACE and DELIVERANCE before receiving the Laws of GOD...
EVERY prophet from the "Old Testament" told us of the last days...
Yeshua the Messiah quoted from the writings of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Jonah, Micah, Zechariah, and Malachi when He spoke of the Last Days...
If anyone came preaching a different Gospel, they would have been exposed by the Bereans and considered a FALSE prophet...
Wow…I love that, pre-wrath. Totally using that from now on.
Guys, Here is our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I agree! Pre wrath rapture with Jesus coming in the clouds for the harvest in Rev 14. Then right after God prepares the grapes of WRATH of which we are not appointed to his wrath
ua-cam.com/video/Lx7HLkZRgTs/v-deo.html
Just ignore all the writings of Paul and listen to Jesus and His Chosen Apostles
If all of us Christians lived our lives with the belief that at any moment, Jesus could rapture us to be with Him, without any single prophecy to be fulfilled, then we would be focused on fulfilling the great commission and putting Jesus first in our daily lifestyle habits and actions, and all other things would become less important. Post tribulation believers can’t live this way. I pray today is the day Jesus returns for His Bride. Maranatha.
Dude! You talked way to fast that it was hard for me to keep up! 😅 but everything you said makes sense! And I have always leaned to post trib. I don’t see or understand how people can get a pre trib theory. I’m not sure if people just lack comprehension or people just really aren’t understanding and studying for themselves but just going by what everyone else says because it’s been taught for the past few hundred years.
Go to settings and slow audio
Adventures with Mimi I totally agree people have comprehension disabilities! They have a preconceived idea and want to stick with it and can’t look at facts of what the Scriptures actually are saying.
It helps so much to put that on 75% of the speed. It makes him sound perfectly normal 😂
I like your point of view but I am definitely pre tribe
Thank you another smart person. Tribulation is for the Jewish people and the unsaved mainly Jewish people. Christians are gone. They removed my long pretrib comment because I proved them wrong
@@georgeo785 how many times are you going to post this?
@@emojidinosaur7300Hey Dino. How many times are you posting this ?
The Bible teaches that Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath. But what if the first few years of the Tribulation are not God's wrath, but the wrath of Satan and the Antichrist? Revelation chapter 6 clearly says that God's wrath begins at some point after the midpoint of the Tribulation. That means Christians will be here for the first four or five years.
@@georgeo785 tribulation only applies to followers of Jesus. If there were no followers of Jesus then there could not be any tribulation.
John 15 vs 20
"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;"
The unsaved wont go through tribulation.... I mean seriously, do you think they're going to persecute each other???? ROFLMAO!!!!
Christians aren't "GONE"...... Christians (followers of Jesus) have been killed since John the Baptist. Did Jesus take him away? No. The disciples of Jesus were killed and many others after them. Did Jesus come and take them away before THEY went through tribulation, beheading, stoning???? NO!
All true Christians will go through tribulation, just as we are right now, right up until the day the Lord returns.
Revelation 20 vs 4
"and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
- So are you saying that the scripture is lying??? That the bible is false???
- The scripture is clear, Christians will be beheaded for not worshiping the beast. Does THAT sound like a "pre trib" rapture??? NO!!
WAKE UP sunshine!! Put your thinking cap on and actually study the bible for yourself!!
Praise Jesus, for He is the way, the TRUTH, the life and the light of this wretched and dark world.
I am pre trib because there is plenty of proof in the Bible
Hello brothers. So I’ve been looking into pre-TRIB or post TRIB. Can someone explain to me, that is pre-TRIB, how Paul’s teaching about the Lawless one appearing makes sense if Christians that he was writing to would’ve never seen the anti-Christ. How could it be a sign that the day the lord hasn’t come yet, because the lawless one hasn’t appeared.
Shouldn’t he be pointing to signs that would occur before the rapture, not after?