Six Proofs of a Pre Wrath Rapture - 4K DVD Version
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- David Rosenthal gives evidence of a rapture position that may surprise you. He systematically explores Matthew 24 and the 7 Seals of Revelation. He then gives evidences and a Scriptural basis for select events tied to the return of Jesus in, "6 Proofs of a Pre-Wrath Rapture." Leave your comments below and subscribe to our channel!
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I have been a pre tribulationist for 50 years. Last week, I finally had to admit that pre wrath lines up perfectly with scripture. Now scripture makes more sense to me. Ad so now I am listening to pre wrath teachings like this one. I had never been interested nor ever listened to any other teachings other than pre trib until today.
I'm pretty new to prewrath as well but realize after studying it, that it makes so much more sense!
I am recently saved and have absolutely been consuming all content I can regarding the Bible and i've been reading it vigorously as well. However, I've been really struggling with the post, mid and pre-tribulation rupture. Because each one of them I found scripture that did sit well with me in regards to complicating them. However, this is the first I've heard of a pre wrath rupture and I've listened to this sermon 3 times already today. Aswell, gone through my Bible and it seems to fit the best in my mind. I will continue to study and pray on the matter but I'm very happy Ifound this sermon.
Listen to the late Robert Van Kampen. He offers a very compelling argument as well for a pre wrath rapture.
@@ObeyJesusOurLord thank you!
Keep reading your Bible, the answers are there. Falling away is not necessarily the "rapture". Apostasy is not rapture.
Look brother, people want you to think one is heresy or something over the other
The truth is, if it's pre trib and you aren't lukewarm, you will rapture.
If it's mid trib/pre wrath, you will die for your faith or rapture before God's wrath
Either of those is correct and both positions are extremely tough to debate.
There will be a falling away of the church(is it because persecution?)
Many will be deceived
I believe in pre trib, but am ready to endure mid trib and post trib. Just be ready for anything. People who are 100% set on the pretrib might be thinking 'I won't be here' and if it doesn't come to pass, they might be the ones who lose faith.
When I was 7 years old my church did a huge month long teaching on the tribulation and played a film teaching the pretrib rapture. I remember as the pastor red through Revalation , and he would explain what the verses mean. I kept thinking “ But that’s not what the scripture says.” I thank you for this teaching because it’s so needed.
Have been following for 15 years. This is without a doubt the clearest, most comprehensive presentation of the whole phenomenon I have heard. Thank you for myself and any and all who hear.
I’m just curious, in your 15 years of researching the controversy for the timing of the Rapture of God’s true believers at the end of the age, who are the Biblical teachers that you have either read or listened too, who gave their reasons and referenced the Scriptural texts for why & what they believe, supported a pre-tribulation Rapture?
In other words, like in a trial court, where the members of the jury, listen to the evidence presented for both sides of a controversy, before coming to a conclusion. Personally speaking, I can’t say that I know for sure when the rapture will take place, but I have spent some considerable time, researching all 3 sides of the argument, and not that I had a prejudice for believing one over the other, I just truly wanted to know which one seemed to have the most Biblical support.
But a lot of people don’t do that , and just follow an emotional path,that’s completely independent of requiring any statistical data, or facts. And won’t change their mind even if the facts don’t support what they believe.
But what little this man mentioned for what he believed about pre-tribulation rapture believers, wasn’t accurate, and evidently he hasn’t informed himself about much, if any of the reasons for why so many people believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.
And maybe because he didn’t think it was necessary to know, because his Father had already come to a factual conclusion.
@@garywilson7992Matthew 24:29-31
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
SO THE ELECT ARE GATHERED AFTER THE TRIBULATION NOT BEFORE.
I totally agree with you! My thoughts exactly!
@@garywilson7992 The late Robert Van Kampen, Marc Rosenthal, MacMurtry, & Tom Petro all offer compelling arguments for a pre wrath rapture.
@@garywilson7992My testimony is similar to yours, that I soent considerable time in prayer and study of the subject.
What I learned from most comments I read along way was that anyone who was pre trib was pre trib because they had been taught that. This was the case for me.
I slso learned, and you will find this to be true in the comments here in this video, is that many who were pre trib changed their minds after doing an independent study of scripture without prejudice towards one view or the other. Also, those who come to the Lord with zero knowledge of any rapture and study on their oen, realize a pre wrath rapture as scriptural.
Thank you so much. The best and clear explanation I have heard in 25 years since I became born again . God bless you greatly! Shalom
When the church finds itself in the middle of the tribulation, it will cause a great falling away as Christians will say I did not sign up for this!
The apostasy has already begun, few actually know what is written in the scriptures, only what the church teaches.
The tribulation is for ISRAEL and the unbelieving Gentile nations. Not the Church.
@@taylormuse-22 The Antichrist during the Great Tribulation will persecute all Christians.
@@taylormuse-22How do you know that we aren't in the Tribulation right now? One won't know until the 2nd 3½ year of the 7 week period.
That is when the AntiChrist is revealed. There is a treaty already to build the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem. Israel already has the components to build the 3rd Temple
@@taylormuse-22If thats the case Christians would be taken prior to tribulations starting. The Pastor stated we, the bride, will be taken prior to God's wrath not prior to tribulations.
This is what I had studied and understood..I have been trying to teach it online on TikTok amidst fight and anger..thank you for revealing this though the Holy spirit
With so many pre-tribulation rapture videos on UA-cam that are a false deception, it was very edifying to watch this video. Scripture clearly teaches a pre-wrath rapture which I believe and you did a great job explaining. It opened my eyes to other things that I have not seen in my research. Thank you for posting!!!
Strange as it may be, we as Christians focus so much on the period of tribulation and the birth pangs. What we should mostly be focusing on is what the birth brings forth. The coming of our blessed hope Jesus Christ and the entry into the eternal age. Glory be to God, how our hearts burn for this.
I knew your father in the early 80’s. Maeve come to a Revelation conference to a little baptist church on Albany Ga. I was an 18 year old new Christian and newly married. Maeve was certainly ahead of his time. But mostly I remember his sweet disposition! Truly a godly man!
I used to be a pre-trib rapture believer almost most of my Christian life but i been reading, re- reading, comparing, studying, watching, listening and praying and this position makes the most scenes according to scripture. Grateful to come across this video.
Why fall for a good video. It's possible but not definite. Study some more.
@@the-hollywood-dog-says-6072 I agree but for the most part this view seems a lot more plausible to me but I also believe it will remain a mystery so I'm not settling on when exactly it will be and I'm also not going to try to understand something God hasn't plainly said. So it really is a mystery to all of us no matter what position we choose because if it was plainly mentioned there wouldn't be diff views.
@realdealholyfield-dx3bf
How do you know that we aren't in the Tribulation right now? Look around you. HAMAS, which is not a country and Israel. I bet you don't know that Saudi Arabia and Israel have been negotiating a treaty for Israel to Build a new Temple right next to the Omar Mosque 🕌. Oh don't you know that Israel has all of the elements for their temple that can be built in less than 6 months? 🤔 2nd 3½ years is when the Great Tribulation begins when the world leader is unveiled
I knew your dad quite well many years ago. I heard he died in Jan 2022 - my deepest sympathies for you and your family.
Amazing, clear and concise teaching. Praise the Lord for you!
Outstanding teaching and revelation to be prepared for what is yet to come.
during the covid pandemic, after going through scriptures. I do believe in a post trib pre wrath rapture. Hallelujah lets rejoice and encourage one another brothers and sisters
Amen, keep looking for the church rapture
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth keep the faith
The church rapture is at judgement day
Revelation 21 New earth no more days
Mystery Babylon tricked us
The church was never promised white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus
The saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus
Revelation 7 14 white robes
Revelation 20 4 thousand year reign
The church was promised everlasting life
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Scripture does not say that.
...and that position is supposed to "ENCOURAGE" the believer?!?! RU serious?
The pre-trib rapture rebukes the pre-wrath, mid-trib, & post-trib rapture theories.
I don't see anything in scripture that says great tribulation being after the midpoint means there isn't any tribulation in the first half. Whether you want to call them birth pangs or not, it is still tribulation with a small t. It's just that it gets worse as time goes on. I am also not so sure that the "great tribuation" is cut short. It merely means that God has set a time limit. I don't seen that the "great tribulation" ENDS (OR IS CUT SHORT) and then the wrath begins. They're all part of the same thing. All I can say for sure is that believers are raptured before the wrath (Day of the Lord).
@@Kman. There is absolutely not a single verse in the Bible that says the escape comes before the tribulation.
When I was born again back in 1981, I was introduced to the pre-tribulation rapture as if it was absolute truth. Not knowing the Bible, I believed what I was taught. As I grew in the Word, I learned there were other views - but believed that the most popular view must be the right one - I also didn't think it was very important and certainly not critical to one's salvation. Then in 2013 I desided to study this topic for myself and commited to only examining the scriptures (vs commentaies, books, articles or videos) and prayed to the Father to lead me to the truth via the Holy Spirit. After several weeks of studying the prophetic scriptures I came to the reality that the scriptures teach a PRE-WRATH rapture. It was only after coming to this truth that I then began to discover pastors and Bible teachers who also hold to the Pre-Wrath rapture - many who also previously held to the Pre-trib rapture.
Glad you arrived at the truth. I no longer am a pre tribber. I'm convinced of a pre wrath rapture.
John Nelson Darby came up with the pre trib rapture in 1830. You can even look it up. It's history. It seems that many believers who hold to the pre trib rapture either just take what they're taught as absolute truth like you mentioned, or don't want to dig deeper bc pre trib rapture suits them better bc they want outta here before things get really bad. It wld be great if a pre trib rapture was true, but the teaching in this video & others I've listened to on Pre Wrath rapture make more sense regarding scripture. 🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎
Bible does not teach pre wrath rapture....
Did you research and find that NONE of the church fathers teached Pre Trib Rapture? This has only been taught for the past 150 years. READ YOUR BIBLE
@@marymcmullen5644Reread scripture and pray for truth to be revealed. When I did that, God revealed much to me.
Best presentation ever on this! I read your dad's book many years ago and he convinced me of the pre-wrath rapture. Thank you for continuing his work.
Did you consider the “first resurrection” mentioned in revelation 20:5? I’m trying to reconcile putting a resurrection of the saints in revelation chapter 7 (the great multitude). The dead in Christ rises FIRST.
@@1AbidingInTheLight
The resurrection does not occur at at Revelation 20. The resurrected martyrs are just mentioned here because they will be resurrected to reign with Christ during the millennium and Revelation 20 is about the millennium.
Isaiah 26:19-21 makes it clear that the resurrection precedes the wrath of God. This is one of the better proofs for a pre-wrath rapture since the martyrs in Revelation 20 and their resurrection would have to take place after the antichrist is revealed at the midpoint.
Yes,I too, was wonderfully helped by his book as well! The Pre-Wrath Rapture is the most cohesive unstrained,a d scripturally sound interpretation of the Rapture!
Rapture is posttrib. It’s not debatable.
1. Resurrection PRECEDES the rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘the last day’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Obviously then this also means the rapture is on the last day since the resurrection PRECEDES THE RAPTURE.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. John says he saw the dead come to life. HERE is the resurrection and rapture. It’s post trib. AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes through the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when He punished Egypt.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
Matthew 24:29-31
The Glorious Return
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
---
Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with the false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. This bad doctrine of escapism has got to be refuted. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
----
The rapture is post Trib. False teachers constantly and incessantly gets this wrong and lead the church astray. Don’t listen to them about the rapture they are WRONG.
STUDY. Show yourself approved. Don’t be ashamed.
1. The resurrection is BEFORE the rapture.
1 Thess 4.
2. The resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY.
John 6.
3. The last day is in Revelation 20:4. THE DEAD CAME TO LIFE.
This is the resurrection and rapture. The next day starts the millennial kingdom.
Instead of planning your escape start filling your lamps with oil.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture.
Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths.
1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION.
The rapture is on the last day.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
And then there’s Jesus’ message in
Matthew 24:29-31
“But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
------
Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches.
And remember this verse.
Revelation 13:7
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
--
God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth.
2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
I have done much study and conclude this Presentation is based on Scripture taken in proper context. Also one of the best presentations that would be understood by most Church goers.Pretribulation believers cannot offer definite Bible verses to support then timing of the Rapture. Jesus in Matthew 24 explicitly states what happens before the Rapture.Paul explicitly states in 2 Thess Ch 2 that the Apostasy and revealing of the antichrist are to take place. Well done David !
I can tell you exactly when the church rapture will happen
The church rapture is at judgement day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times, simple just stop adding a thousand years or more after the day Jesus calls the Last day
The church doesn't have one Bible verse that promised them white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus
The saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus
Revelation 7 14 white robes
Revelation 20 4 thousand year reign
Jesus is truth keep the faith
Agreed. The Word of God cannot be compromised. After an intense Scriptural study myself I came to this Prewrath position as well. May God be with you.
This is by far the best presentation of the pre wrath rapture I've seen!
Thank you! It's so encouraging to see such an exegetical reading of revelation. My studies of the Olivet discourse and the letters to the Thessalonians and my reading of some parts of Revelation, guided by the Holy Spirit, of course, brought me to a pre-wrath rapture understanding, but your exposition has provided nuggets of context that fill in the pieces that were hazy for me. Bless you. I'm very encouraged, and I'm happily amazed by the magnificent unity of the truth of Scripture! Praise God! Maranatha!
I read your dad's book in the 90s and was so excited to find a consistent position. I have affirmed and taught it ever since.
This is excellent presentation without any unnecessary distractions..
Will have to watch this over again and again as time permits..
Thank you, and may the Lord God Jesus continue to bless Zion's Hope Ministry financially, it takes a lot of time and effort to be a content creator on UA-cam.
I have been in the Pre-Wrath camp for many years, and I owe a lot of my Biblical knowledge to David's father, Marvin Rosenthal. He published a now famous book entitled The PRE-WRATH RAPTURE of the CHURCH in 1990. It is excellent, thorough, and well worth reading; again and again! Arm yourself with Truth! This is a life-changer. Amen.
Thank you for teaching truth
Thank you for another very clear and insightful teaching on this essential topic - really most appreciated, and only one mention of the word 'global' this time. Much preferred when you say 'world-wide'... (words are important) 🙂 Blessings aye.
How do so many teachers forget about the MILLENIAL reign of Christ Jesus that is on the planet after the great tribulation. It's not the end of time, it's the end of the age of grace where judgment and justice with wrath on the wicked takes place. Many people will parish but they will live again in Christ. Why are we even spending so much time as believers trying to know more than what God revealed to us. We should be focusing on living like Jesus, which honestly none of us is doing very well. Just looking at the facts and the current state of the church, our country and the world. Christians are being distracted by things that don't matter. Jesus wants us to be the light and salt, spread the gospel. We're deceived, there are so many interpretations, that is how you know the obsession with the rapture is coming but not yet. We could be storing up treasure in heaven but we choose to debate and fight other believers in the body of Christ because we want our options and interpretations to be right. Preach the gospel, do the work, and don't let debates take your crown of glory in being distracted by timing. God is perfect and his timing is perfect. We know time is short, look around it's obvious. Family, we're wasting time. I beg of you, focus on the great comission. Pray for discernment and not to be deceived. Love you all, to God the Father and Christ Jesus be the glory and praise!
True
Over the last 50 yrs I’ve heard many people “ prove “ from scripture several different views about the end times. When I was a teenager , seeing I was interested in the subject, my pastor gave me some advice . He said “you’ve got to remember, it’s only “their opinion “.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture.
Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths.
1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION.
The rapture is on the last day.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
And then there’s Jesus’ message in
Matthew 24:29-31
“But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
------
Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches.
And remember this verse.
Revelation 13:7
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
--
God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth.
2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
@@willpower6720THANK YOU!!
You honor the legacy of your dad. Very solid work.
Great presentation, very clear and concise. My understanding in regard to the last trump is that it is the trump of God not an angel blowing the trumpet and it is tied to the Jewish feasts.
The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the Resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Awesome teaching, I got Marvin's book years ago. It's the only position that makes sense to me. thank you for carrying on these Bible truths.
THE proof of the pre-trib rapture: Who does John see upon arriving at the throne room of the universe? "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." (Rev. 4:4 KJV) And who are these elders? There's no need to speculate....they proclaim their identity in 5:9-10. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Now who will be in heaven singing of having been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb? There's a clue in their song....note the pronouns "us" and "we." ('Jeopardy" theme plays) THE CHURCH!! John is looking at the glorified church who are wearing the white robes and crowns they were given at the Bema Seat Judgment AFTER the rapture. And since, at this point, our Lord is just now rising to take the title deed to the earth and begin to break the seals, the 7 years of Jacob's Trouble has yet to begin. Since none other than the Apostle John taught (as shown to him by the Holy Spirit) of a pre-trib rapture, I'm going to take his word for it.
The reward is given in Rev 11:18, that is when the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of the Lord, and He begins to reign. The 24 elders are OT Saints resurrected with Christ, the elders of the church in Heaven, which reign with Christ, the root of the natural olive tree of Israel. They and the 4 creatures sing a song and glorify Christ. The 24 elders are NOT of the group of the NT Saints, nowhere in revelation. The "us" is added and the "we" is changed, the older manuscripts say they and them.
Yea, brother. You're so right. We're looking to and for Jesus, not the Antichrist. We could never attain anything more than the gift of His grace in saving us from sin by proving (works of the flesh) our faith in the tribulation of the 70th week when we say NO to the mandate and lose our heads. Most people will say YES. Why? Because we're human and we have doctorates in failures, each and every one of us. Let nobody fool you. Talk to someone you know well that was involved in all-out war. He will tell you how the brave of today can falter and cry like a coward tomorrow. We don't have guarantees when we think about our weak flesh. I've hung-in-there 'till my "jaws" broke off and it mattered not - I gained nothing of true value because of my prideful tenacity or whatever horrible thing it was! We are KNOWN by our Father in heaven, and He will return for us at exactly the moment He had ordained from the beginning. Our personal rapture is imminent either way i.e. we die, we gone. This struggle we call life is worth the while and everything we do in the Spirit counts (in heaven) as long as we forget ourselves and keep looking to Jesus! Maranatha!
The elders are not the church, at most they represent the church. They are most often associated with the living creatures, which are equally mysterious but most like angelic beings from a reading of the OT. The song the elders sing in Rev 5 is poorly translated to use the word "us" in the KJV, but that word is not there in other translations. Also in Rev 5, the elders hold the prayers of the saints, which men wouldn't do.
Excellent. Spot on!
Again, without intention to be controversial, I realized that if one does not regard the church and Israel as two different entities, they would easily deny this rapture position.
Why do people think that God has a caste system?
Do they seriously imagine that God is saying "Those OT believers were willing to die for me, but they believed too soon, so they are not my favorites. These others believed last, they are also willing to die for me, but they are not my bride, so they must suffer terribly.
But THAT group, the one that falls in line with every whim and fad of society, no matter how clearly I have forbidden it, claims to heal back pain by playing the carnival scam of leg-pulling, and insists that my only desire is to lavish them with every earthly whim while winking at blatant sins...THAT group is my beloved. THAT is my bride. They will be spirited off the earth before the Beast can bruise their little pinkies."
The "New Covenant" was promised to ABRAHAM. It was stated long before the church was formed. The Bride of YHVH is Israel. The betrothal contract was the Mosaic Covenant.
"Israel was YHVH's bride, but God divorced her." - Pretribbles. No, Zechariah makes it crystal clear that it was a temporary setting aside. The remnant will be redeemed.
"But the church is the bride of CHRIST not Yahweh." - Pretribbles. Actually, that is stated nowhere in the Bible. Paul does say that he wished to present the church as a pure bride. He also says that we are grafted INTO the root of Israel.
SO, who is YHVH (Yahweh/I AM)?
I always thought it was God the Father. BUT:
THE ANGEL of the LORD spoke to Moses from the burning bush. When Moses asked THE ANGEL of the LORD to state His name, TAOTL replied, "I AM that I AM." (I AM WHAT I WILL BE/ YHVH/ YAHWEH)
THE ANGEL of the LORD is seen several times in the Bible when a supernatural "man" is identified as God. Since no human can see God and live, these must be Christophanies. (Appearances of Jesus prior to his incarnation.)
In other words, the God identified as YHVH, I AM, or Yahweh is God the SON!
His bride is Israel. We, who believe get to be part of that.
exactly because the true Israel are those who receive the Messiah and not dependent on nationality and that's the promise we are grafted in to the original olive tree "and you shall be one flock with One Shepherd "
I guess if they are wrong on the church and Israel then they are going to be wrong in the rapture too Oh well 🤷♂️
my problem with this is that the rapture is contingent upon the resurrection of those in Christ happening first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. This happens at the end of the Tribulation, Revelation 19-20 (20.4-6 specifically) as Christ said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." While I've heard many explanations, they're just interpretive gymnastic to explain away or avoid the plain text of Scripture. The Tribulation is not *THE* Wrath we are not appointed to. The Wrath we're not appointed to is the judgement of eternal damnation.
Your perspective will change if you read Genesis 19:23-25..
"Immediately after the trib of those days" is Jesus quoting Isa 27:13. It is not the Rapture.
No, you're mistaken about the Wrath of God and the Lamb, what you consider to be the wrath is actually the Great White Throne Judgement. Here is scriptural proof: Rev.6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17 For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”
I think the resurrection at the very end is the second resurrection of the DEAD, Christians are always "sleeping" and are part of the first resurrection. That's how I understood it. 👍
😂😂You kidding right?So after the Rapture Revelation 6:12 when he says the wrath has come in Revelation 6:17..then we view what is happening on earth in Revelation 7:1-3,then in heaven Rev:7:9
Then the 7Trumpets,7 Bowls7 vials start in Revelation 8 upon those who took the mark..is that judgement?When we see the 7 plagues in Revelation 15:1-2 while we are in heaven is that judgement?Judgement of the righteous is at Revelation 20:4 after the second coming in Revelation 19:11...I think it's clear as day
Outstanding teaching... Very clear and concise outline and arrangement of the Scriptures.
By God’s grace, I’ve read through the Bible every year since 1998. I wish I could say that because I was a good Christian is why I did it, but it wasn’t it was because I wanted to understand Revelation.
This position is the only one that needs no extra explanation, or no things to be focused on or ignored in order to make the position work. It also can be interpreted as pre, mid or post trib with just some minor, variations on definitions or circumstances, so it actually helps explain the other views existence.
No one understood Jesus first coming completely before it happened, so I’m sure there’s things we don’t understand now, but this sure seems to fit.
David - this was excellent - thank you!
There are 2 catching ups pre for the church post for the jews when Christ returns after the trib. If you die now you will have your own private pre trib rapture.
There are scriptures supporting all four rapture perspectives. My final conclusion is to be mindful of all options as we don’t know which perspective the Lord will choose. He does say that nobody knows when and that it will be a surprise/ unexpected just like in the time of Noah.
I genuinely don't understand how anyone who has researched this subject can still defend pre-trib. I just don't get it. Is it clinging to ideology over the word of God, or is it ignorance? Either way, there's no excuse for the pastors. They shouldn't be putting man's ideology over God's word, and they definitely shouldn't be ignorant concerning the word of God.
Almost too funny, as I really almost could state the same thing about those who align with the "POST" position, but I won't. So tell me, what's THEE defining passage in your opinion that supports the "POST" position?
Because the certification process requires this indoctrination of pretrib. I've asked several pastors to help me understand the pretrib view as it would ease my mind a lot of the future. Yet none will even try because they can't defend it
There is good evidence for pretrial, midtrib, etc. But in the end literally we will see
I think it’s fear and pride that keeps them blind. They can’t understand how much God loves them so think it’s wrong and nasty for Him to not take them away before they get their faith tested
@@Kman.How about when Jesus said He was coming AFTER THE TRIBULATION to gather His elect in Matthew 24? How about when the bible says the antichrist will wear out the saints Daniel 7? How about when the bible says all those who were martyred and wouldn't take the mark of the beast will be resurrected and raptured by Jesus when He returns Revelation 20?
Thank you Ptr. David Rosenthal. The end tmes sequence of the pre-wrath rapture gets very clear here. Post-Trib, Pre-Wrath. When we understand this, the bible verses will never have conflict. It will speak plainly to us. "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." - John 16:33. God bless.
Very good! Thankyou very much.
Excellent teaching
I appreciate David's presentation and attempt to help people understand Scripture. I think there are many contradictions, however, to the prewrath position.
1. Notice David claims (correctly) that the first half of Daniel's 70th week is called "labor pains" by Jesus in Matthew 24:8. Paul uses the identical term in the Greek (odin) for "labor pains" in 1 Thess. 5:3. Problem: Paul links the labor pains to the "day of the Lord." This means the beginning of labor pains is the beginning of the day of the Lord and therefore God's wrath! This is why the pretribulation proponents are correct in asserting that the church is raptured at the very beginning of Daniel's 70th week (prior to the day of the Lord).
2. Key to the prewrath position is the idea that Antichrist's reign of 3 1/2 years will be cut short to less than that. They claim Matthew 24:22 teaches this. Problem: The apostle John teaches that antichrist reigns for 3 1/2 years in Revelation 13:5. This means that the prewrath position directly contradicts John's teaching in Revelation 13:5. This is why pretribulation proponents teach that the great tribulation is "cut short" to 3 1/2 years just as Daniel and John taught (cf. Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14; 13:5). There is then no contradiction between Matthew 24:22 and John 13:5 in the pretribulation view.
3. The prewrath position claims the day of the Lord (and its associated wrath) is not present until after the 6th seal. Problem: Paul teaches that the day of the Lord comes while the unbelieving world is claiming they have "peace and safety" (1 Thess. 5:3). Peace and safety is removed by the 2nd seal! John wrote, "And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him" (Rev. 6:4). This is why pretribulation proponents teach that the entire 70th week of Daniel is God's wrath.
4. As I mentioned above, the prewrath position claims the day of the Lord's wrath does not begin until after the 6th seal. Problem: The fourth seal records four instruments of God's wrath: sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts (Rev. 6:8). This passage is a direct allusion to Ezekiel 14:19-21 where God poured out sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts on Jerusalem as instruments of His wrath. Why was it God's wrath when it was poured out upon Jerusalem, but it's not God's wrath when poured out on the world? This is another reason why pretribulation proponents teach the that the wrath of God is present during the entire 70th week.
5. The prewrath position claims that Daniel's 70th week and its associated tribulations will be the worst time period in human history. This is true (Matt. 24:21). The prewrath position claims, however, that this worst time period will be cut short by the day of the Lord which is the worst time period! You can't have two "worst" time periods! This is another reason why pretribulation proponents teach that the entire 70th week of Daniel is the day of the Lord.
6 David Rosenthal claims (as do other prewrath proponents) that the day of the Lord and its wrath begins after the 6th seal. Problem: The unregenerate claim that the day of God's wrath has come in Revelation 6:17 (6th seal). The aorist verb (erchomai) "has come" is a constative aorist that explains a past event. The unregenerate even understand at this point that the world has been experiencing the wrath of God. This is direct contradiction to David Rosenthal who claims the day of the Lord begins "after" the 6th seal.
7. The prewrath position claims that the day of the Lord is preceded by cosmic disturbances. Problem: There are a series of 5 cosmic disturbances throughout Daniel's 70th week. You have a cosmic disturbance at the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12), 4th trumpet (Rev. 8:12), 5th trumpet (Rev. 9:2), 4th bowl (Rev. 16:8), and after Daniel's 70th week according to Jesus in Matthew 24:29. Prewrath claims Matthew 24:29 and the 6th seal are synonymous. The problem: Jesus teaches this cosmic disturbance occurs after the 70th week is over!
8. Prewrath claims Joel 2:31 and Malachi 4:5 provide signs prior to the day of the Lord. Interestingly, both texts have the same phrase "great and terrible day of Yahweh." When one reads from Joel 2:31 through Joel 3:1-21, one realizes this "great and terrible day of Yahweh" is the narrow 24-hour day in which Messiah intervenes against the enemies surrounding Jerusalem (Zech 14:1-7). This is why Jesus cites the same text (Joel 2:31) in Mattew 24:29 because it is "immediately after the tribulation of those days." This is a reference to the end of Daniel's 70th week, not some point inside of it. Therefore, there are signs prior to what is called the "narrow day" of the Lord, but not before the broad day of the Lord which begins at the inception of Daniel's 70th week and extends unto eternity (2 Pet. 3:10). This is why pretribulation proponents rightly claim that the broad day of the Lord (beginning of Daniel's 70th week) comes like a thief (1 Thess. 5:2), and that the "narrow day of the Lord" (final battle at end of 7 years) is preceded by signs such as the Elijah like witness (Rev. 11) and cosmic disturbances (Joel 2:31; Mal. 4:5).
9 Prewrath claims the day of the Lord is preceded by signs, yet Paul says it comes "suddenly" and like a "thief." (1 Thess. 5:2-3). The term for thief (kleptes) is one which emphasizes stealth. The robber (lestes) uses force to get what he wants, but the thief (kleptes) uses stealth. How can the day of the Lord come without warning if there are signs that must occur first? How can the day of the Lord come suddenly when people have seen many signs prior that have tipped them off? Jesus uses Noah's day as the example of the onset of Daniel's 70th week (Matt. 24:37-39). The whole purpose of citing Noah's day is to give an example of the suddenness of the coming wrath. The writer of Hebrews wrote, "By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith" (Heb 11:7).
Notice the writer of Hebrews states that Noah was "warned by God about things not yet seen." There were no signs for Noah or anyone else to see that God's wrath was coming. That's the way it will be at the onset of Daniel's 70th week. The only warning comes from the word of God. This is why Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but none will be given to it except the sign of Jonah" (Matt. 16:4). The only sign (sign of Jonah) refers to Christ's resurrection and cannot be visibly seen by us during the church age. This sign is only found by believing in what the Scriptures have said.
The churches who are focusing on being raptured are not preparing the people to endure persecution. I am not talking about the tribulation. If you are expecting to be raptured and not expecting persecution you will fall away. There will be a falling away before any rapture will happen (2 Thess. 2:3).
They fall away because they are deceived preparing themselves only for rapture instead of preparing themselves to endure to the end.
Don't be blindsided by unexpected persecution and fall away.
(Matthew 13)."...But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended..."
I remember hearing people say that when the so called rapture happens that there will be crashing cars and airplanes because some of the drivers and pilots will suddenly be taken away and the cars and planes will crash because there will be no one left to control them. This scenario will not happen and cannot happen because when the church of Philadelphia is translated the people will be assembled in a 24 hour sunset to sunset Trumpets convocation. Just like the 120 were in Acts chapter 2 for the Feast of Weeks. They will not be out and about driving cars and flying airplanes.
“Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when He comes shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.”
Some people say that they are watching all the time but they overlook verse 38. “And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.” (Luke 12:37-38).
Under normal circumstances people are sound asleep during the second and third watch. Therefore Luke 12 is not talking about watching in a figurative way. The LORD is talking of a literal watch.
There are appointed times in the scriptures for us to fulfill a literal watch. In fact, all of the appointed times of holy convocations (moedim) listed in Leviticus 23 are watches and vigils of Yahweh. Each one of them are fulfilled by both an Old Testament and corresponding New Testament historical event.
In other words they will be assembled together in a holy convocation and not out and about driving cars and flying airplanes. Like the 120 were assembled in the upper room Acts chapter 2 for the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). Unfortunately, because of a man-made ecclesiastical calendar many will not be watching at the appointed time.
The people preaching a post-trib doctrine are setting up all their friends and family for serious hardship because they are lying to them that there is no pre-trib rapture. Then when it occurs, those in their circle who are not believers are going to be severely upset that they didn't share the correct gospel story and left them on the planet to deal with all the judgments of God. You lose the ability to be a great witness in whatever months/ years we have left.
@@seanc2788 post tribbers expect to go through the tribulation so prepared for whatever is ahead, pre tribbers are not sticking to what the Bible tells them when the rapture time frame is, they ignore it and weave in fantasies about a secret rapture and a ticket out of here, no persecution whatsoever for them, have they forgotten how all but 1 of the Messiahs disciples were martyred for their faith, what about Christians in the arenas with lions? Burned at the stake?
Revelation 13:7 the beast is given permission by God to war with the saints, the saints and the church are the same, Believers.
The righteousness of the in fine clean white linen are the same saints.
Daniel 7:21 the horn made war with the saints and prevailed against them.
22: until the Ancient of days came, and judgement was given to the saints of the most high, and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom.
We are exempt from Gods wrath, but not Satans.
We are told to endure to the end. How are you showing your faith by expecting a free pass out of here, different then any other Christian.
Matthew 24:13 the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Well said!!...only in dumbed down westernized America does church think they are immune to persecution, even while it's happening in many parts of world...duhhh
It is astounding the number of ministries that don't take into account that it is clearly stated by Jesus that it shall be as in the days of Noah. Who was removed from the earth in Noah's day? It was the wicked.
I believe the day of the LORD ( LAST DAY) begins during the tribulation ( 3-1/2 yrs long) for the elects sake those days are cut short.
The resurrection will cut those days short for the body of Christ.
Well done
I don’t understand how the explanation of these verses are constantly overlooked
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
Revelation 11:3-4
It literally tells us who the two witnesses are: the 2 olive trees and the 2 candlesticks - challenge yourself to do a deep dive into these 2 things mentioned - you won’t come to the conclusion of Moses and Elijah
Amen!
I am a pre-wrath teacher myself, but I would like to hear from other pre-wrath brethren, and explanation of Matthew 1324 through 30
And 37 through 43
Jesus bless!
Brother..the Jesus quoted the Rapture on Matthew 24:29-31..John quotes it in Revelation 6:12..the sun being darkened,moon being turned into blood,after the days are shortened.After the Rapture,we see the wrath of God starts in Revelation6:18..Revelation 7 is when the 7 th seal is opened but just before that in Revelation 7:1-3 we hear the 4 Angels who were send by Jesus in Matthew 24 :31 also sealing the Foreheads of the 144,000 who will be here on earth ministering during the 7 plagues/vials of Gods wrath.They are also mentioned in Revelation 9:4 the 144,000.
In Revelation Chapter 7:9 John takes us back to heaven after the sealing of the 144,000 to show us what is happening there..in Revelation 7:13 he reveals that Christians were killed in the Great tribulation...The 7 plagues are also quoted in Revelation chapter 15:1-2 while we are in heaven worshipping before the throne
THE second coming is in Revelation 19:11,the judgement of the Righteous who will rule with Jesus is on revelation 20:4 followed by the Millennial kingdom.Thats my understanding..be blessed
*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:*
#1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19*
#2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7*
#3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1*
*Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above.
*JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years:
*Dan.**7:25**-27*
*Dan.12:*7*
*Rev.13:*7*
GREAT Teaching! 😊
I learned a lot!
Two questions...
1) After the Rapture... Will anyone be saved?
What does their Salvation look like? (Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ - ir something else?)
2) What about those of us who are descendants of Jacob (Israel) Do we go through the time of Jacob's Trouble?
(I pulled a Biden... Two words "Made in America)
That was more than two questions 😮
Post Trib, pre wrath…sure. If you separate the two…But we’re still gonna be here with immortal bodies. We’re gonna be here through it all…but we will be changed at his return, then the wrath is poured out.
You don't need a prewrath rapture. God can protect his own by promises like those in Psalm 91.
Many,many of them get beheaded. So I don't think he will be protecting them. The only thing he protects them from is His own wrath (by taking them in the rapture just before the wrath begins).
He is just quoting the bible..no one doubts the abilities of our protector ...and yes we will have the 144,000during his Wrath..they will be here on earth
Pre-Trib all the way. It’s the only one that makes sense and I believe it’s clearly taught in scripture.
So when Paul wrote to the church at Thessalonica and told them the man of sin must come first he was crazy?That was the church dude..not Jews😂Pretrib has never made sense..when you open Revelation and read you will be shocked..I was pre trib too..NOTHING LIKE THAT
Pre Trib is NOWHERE taught in Scripture:
*1 Cor.15:51-52*
**@the LAST Trumpet**
1 Thess.4:16 *"VOICE** of an Archangel and the TRUMPET of God.
Rev.1:10 *"loud *VOICE** as of a TRUMPET"
*Rev.4:1 *"VOICE** like a Trumpet"
*Rev.10:7* "But in the days of **THE VOICE** of the Seventh Angel when he is about to sound, ****THE MYSTERY**** of God would be FINISHED as He declared to His servants, the Prophets."
The 2 Witnesses are PROPHETS and are Resurrected and Called Up and ***REWARDED*** *@the *LAST** *Trumpet:*
**Rev.11:*12-*18-19**
Pre tribulation rapture is not in the bible.
According to Jesus in Mathew 24,Jesus said the beginning of tribulation in verse 21 and end in verse 29....and the rapture in verse 31.....also in Revelation 20 the tribulation in verse 4 and the First Resurrection (rapture) in verse 5....
The Revelation, Chapter 7, The 144,000, representing all 12 Tribes, fulfill the Great
Commission! Notice they have Angelic help
to accomplish this. Notice John is shocked that a number that can’t be numbered are born again! They loved not their lives to death answering the question of the
5th Seal…. How long till you avenge out blood? Revelation 6:9…. All martyrs. Notice they suffered great persecution!
Blessings!
Why is the day of the lord NOT a day, but 3.5 years? Is Jesus coming back early? and then leaving and coming back again? I don't see any proof or even an argument here.
Daniel 9 speaks about the 70 week prophecy. It was 70 total continuous weeks for Daniel and his people to make reconciliation for their iniquity. The 70 weeks run from 457 BC (the decree to rebuild Jerusalem) to 34 AD (Stephan's stoning). The 70th week was Jesus' ministry from 27 AD to 34 AD. There is NO gap or pause in the timeline or future week left.
Exactly 💯
Mr. Rosenthal, Marvin, did he go to be with the Lord last year? Great life and mission that we still celebrate! Only bummer is that 70 didn't take off yet, Lord's will letting! I owe him, David and the Staff there! Soundest Biblical position on the Rapture that's out there!
The problem with this message is that there is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation in the book of Daniel. I challenge anyone to prove that from Daniel 9. If in doubt have another look at it and come back.
The truth will set us free 👍💯,
After the Man of Sin is revealed in the middle of the 70th week, there will be a great falling away of Christians! 2 Thes. 2:3-4
The "falling away" in that text speaks of the rapture of the church. If you're not familiar with the argument & what that text is actually saying, I'll be more than glad to go over it.
A good presentation on this subject. I listened to another video on this and I'm inspired to reread the bible so that I can present it the same, or at least understand the passages better.
The late Robert Van Kampen also offers a very compelling argument for a pre wrath rapture.
Yes!!!! The last trump is the 7th Trump of Rev. Then GOD'S WRATH BEGINS.
I don't think I can listen to this I used to believe it but the Bible is very clear. One resurrection of believers and one second coming. The return of Jesus is the same thing as a rapture. God's judgment is not going to affect believers but we will be here until the second coming.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 10and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Thank you so much for the simple way of explaining this. I already read your father's book, and I also met him, and he was wonderful, chatting with me in the 90's, in Toronto. He was in the middle of writing a sequel to The Prewrath Rapture Of The Church book, about the foolish and the wise virgins. I'm not sure if he finished the book or not. God bless you!
Thank you. I like the way you angled you easel. Much easier to see.
This is exactly what I believe and teach. And some Pre-Trib believers attack me!
I believe and teach the pre-trib rapture and pre-wrathers attack me too. It's something neither side should resort to.
That's what the Bible says I agree with this man it's all 1 day
Pre-trib can evoke a feeling or life of laziness visions of grandeur
Paul calls it the blessed hope.
1 Thess 4:15 shows us that the rapture (i.e. those who are alive and remain) is handcuffed and hogtied to the resurrection (i.e. those who are asleep), and will not precede the resurrection. Jesus said (John 6:39,40,44,54) that the resurrection will be on the "last day". Therefore, the rapture will also be on the last day.
Yep. Back to back. I think that we can presume a rapture occurs along with the resurrection as described in Isaiah 26:19-21 just before the wrath of God commences. The resurrected and raptured will go into their chambers and shut their doors behind them, until the indignation is past. We've got something similar to the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 being described here in Isaiah 26. Doors are shut in Matthew 25:10.
So many assumptions associated with the prewrath doctrine.
And the pre trib doctrine doesn’t do the same exact thing ?
"Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, & of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered & said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ & will deceive many. And you will hear of wars & rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, & kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, & earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation & kill you, & you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, & will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up & deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, & then the end will come."-Matthew 24:3-14
"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ & our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, & the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes & exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth & destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, & lying wonders, & with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."-IIThessalonians 2:1-12
Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
John 11:24 (ESV) Rapture in the same moment.
Take note: The KEY TIME FACTOR here is WHEN the appearance of the 2 WITNESSES/Prophets of God in relation to the 7-year Tribulation... The TIME allotted for them to Preach is 3.5 years (1260 Days) + 3.5 Days (their death/resurrection) =1263.5 Days and then, they will be taken to Heaven by God... If they start in the Middle of the 7-year Tribulation, they will go beyond by 3.5 days after the Tribulation has ended... therefore, the 1st RESURRECTION and RAPTURE will take place while the 2 Witnesses are still Preaching until the Wrath of God comes in while they are still Preaching till the End... but does not make any sense that the CHURCH is gone, while the 2 Witnesses are still preaching to finish the allotted time given by God. logically speaking...
2 Thess. 2:8 states the reveal of the man of sin occurs at the return of Christ which destroys him, which would rule out the AOD.
There were a lot of days of noah. Christ only mention the verse you quoted. He didn't include when noah boarded the arc & closed the door. Just what was happening during the days of noah. In other words not what happened to noah, , but was happening when noah lived
For the Elect's _SAKE_ The word "Sake" is not in the original Greek. So, it should more accurately read, "For the Elect, those day's will be cut short."
I enjoyed the week that Marv Rosenthal taught on the Gospel of Matthew when I was at Word of Life Bible in 1980. His insight included the Jewishness of the Gospel and was extremely powerful. I have not yet read Marv's book which David was drawing from in this video, but will be adding it to my library.
These questions might be answered in the book, but they are fresh at the moment.
- Who are the 24 elders? Ezekiel did not mention them in his vision of the Throne of God complete with the four living creatures. Are they added afterward Ezekiel's vision and before John's?
- the math for the 42 months of the Dragon's rule overlaps the two witnesses in this video, as well as the wrath of God near the end of this period. The death, resurrection, and catching up of the witnesses seem in the text to be near or at the midpoint as does the occurrence of the Abomination of Desolation. Is there a clarification?
- In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus says, "...“But immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory." David indicated that the Cosmic Disturbances converge WITH the catching up of the Church as the Trumpet and bowl judgments begin. Did I misunderstand that?
These came to mind right off and I will be looking into this further, but just wondered if you could shed a little light on these.
Thank you ~
Jesus was not referring to the rapture in Matthew 24:31. He was, by his own confession, sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. We see that this is true in that he spoke specifically about things that concern them that don't concern the gentiles - to flee to the mountains in Judea, to pray that it won't occur during the sabbath, and so on.
So why would he suddenly confuse them by referring, in plain language, to a rapture of a church that predominately consists of gentiles - something that was a mystery scheduled to be revealed decades later by Paul?
Although it doesn't have as much impact on us today, what Jesus was speaking about was something that the Jews would have _immediately_ recognized. Why? Partly because unlike gentiles living today these people were expecting a very important old testament prophecy to be fulfilled, and partly because throughout scripture idioms such as "the four winds", "four quarters", and the "four corners of the earth" were used to reference the four directions to which the lost sheep of Israel were scattered, and from which they were also to be regathered.
They were *SCATTERED* in four directions:
"I will bring against Elam the *four winds* from the four quarters of heaven; I will *scatter them to the four winds,* and there will not be a nation where Elam’s exiles do not go." (Jeremiah 49:36)
And
"Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the Lord, "for I have *scattered you to the four winds of heaven,"* declares the Lord." (Zechariah 2:6)
They will be *GATHERED* from four directions:
"Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children *from the east.*
and gather you *from the west.*
I will say *to the north,* ‘Give them up!’
and *to the south,* ‘Do not hold them back.’" (Isaiah 43:5-6)
And
"He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will *assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."* (Isaiah 11:12)
When God sent the people of Israel into exile he promised them that after a period of time ALL the tribes of Israel would eventually be returned to their land.
"I will surely gather *_all of you,_* Jacob;
I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel.
I will bring them together like sheep in a pen,
like a flock in its pasture;
the place will throng with people." (Micah 2:12)
And
"Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, *not leaving any behind"* (Ezekiel 39:28)
Since this has not happened yet, we can only assume that it HAS to happen in the end times, otherwise God would be a liar.
And notice that when it does happen a "great trumpet" will be blown:
"And *in that day a great trumpet will sound.* Those who were perishing in Assyria and *those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem."* (Isaiah 27:13)
Now with that in mind, notice how the events that Jesus lists in Matthew 24:29-31 line up closely with what we see in Revelation 6:12-7:1-8 - in exactly the same sequence:
MATTHEW: The sun and moon turn dark (Matthew 24:29)
REVELATION: "The sun turns black ... the moon turns blood red"
(Revelation 6:12)
MATTHEW: The stars fall from the sky (Matthew 24:29)
REVELATION: ".. and the stars in the sky fell to earth, " (Revelation 6:13)
MATTHEW: All the tribes of the earth grieve (Matthew 24:30)
REVELATION: "Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?" (Revelation 6:13)
So if these things correspond to what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-30 then the next event on the list we would expect to see in Revelation is the "gathering of the elect from the four winds." Right?
This my friend is _exactly_ what we see:
"After this I saw four angels standing at the *four corners of the earth,* holding back the *four winds of the earth* to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from *ALL the tribes of Israel."* (Revelation 7:1-4)
This is not the rapture, but the regathering of the lost tribes of Israel.
The trump of God, the trumpet Jesus blows to send the angels to gather the elect, the "last trumpet" is a reference to Zechariah 9:14-16. It is God who blows the trumpet there, not an angel. Paul taught out of the Old Testament, not out of dreams or visions. Jesus also referred to this passage in the Olivet Discourse, hence the illustration of His coming being like lightning, because it refers back to Zechariah 9 where the Lord's arrow goes forth as lightning.
It also refers to Isa 27:13.
You didn't mention Matt. 24:29-31. Post-trib and pre wrath are one and the same.
Hopefully, many will come to understand the pre-wrath rapture, once they understand the difference between man's tribulation against man vs. G_d's wrath.
Terrible teaching. The 6th seal is Matthew 24 22. And Matthew 24 29-31 is the day of the 7th trumpet and in the book of Revelation that is Rev 14 14.
Many believers will be left behind. And they will see how this teaching didn't teach Rev 13 5-7 would occur. Saints from all nations will be given into the hands of the antichrist for 3.5 years. Many will see this teaching didn't teach Israel will be hid for 1260 days in the 2nd half with Rev 12 6.
Nothing in Matthew 24 can stop Rev 13 5-7 and Rev 12 6. Those prophecies will occur for the entire 2nd half.
The great tribulation will be shortened for the sake of 144,000 from Israel. The trumpet judgments will start for the sake of 144,000 from Israel with Matthew 24 22. They will be sealed on their foreheads. The 144,000 will be the most important group in Daniel's 70th week.
What kind of person teaches Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7 will not occur. The person doing this video essentially is saying they will not come true for 42 months.
Could the argument also be made that Paul himself had not yet been " caught up in the 3rd Heaven!" When he wrote : 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 NIV
[51] Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- [52] in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Revelations covers more than the last 7 years
The problem I see with this is, that the entire concept of a pre-wrath rapture has no history, while a pre-trib has a history that starts with the apostle Paul and is very clearly described through out the centuries. From this I believe that the arguments try to read an opinion into scripture rather than reading scripture to get an opinion.
The roots of a pre-tibulation rapture are not with Darby, but can be found in earliest church teachings of:
: Apostle Paul in his Thes writings
: Clement of Rome (35-101)
: Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John and teacher of Irenaeus of Lyron)
: Irenaeus of Lyron (120-202 ad) in "Against Heresies, Book 5"
: Ignatius of Antioch (died 110)
: Victorinus of Petrovium (died 304): taught at least a rapture before the 7th seal is broken, even though you can interpret the text also as pre-trib imho
: Pseudo-Ephraem (fourth to sixth century)
: Apostolic Brethren in northern Italy (persecuted by the Catholic Church. Maybe because pre-trib collides with their doctrin of purgatory, introduced in 1215)
: Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656)
: James Durham (1622-1658)
: Jeremiah Burroughs (1600-1646)
: Increase Mather (1639-1723)
: Thomas Collier (1615-1691)
: John Asgill (1659-1738)
: Robert Maton (1607-1653?)
: John Archer
: William Sherwin (1607-1687)
: Cotton Mather (1663-1738)
: Philip Doddridge (1702-1751)
: John Gill (1697-1771)
: Morgan Edwards (1722-1795)
: any many more
The post-tribulation rapture was as well held by apostolic church fathers (by a quite number indeed), however, that view gets justified by them with their believe, that their own persecution is already the tribulation. So in other words, they first believed in the teachings of a pre-trib rapture but because of their own circumstances thought that they might have misunderstood the (quite clear) teachings of Apostle Paul. That might happen if your brothers in Christ get burned alive... However in the early times of apostolic church fathers the "pre-wrath" and "mid-tribulation" view does not show up at all and are in my opinion new "inventions"
It is interesting to see, that the pre-wrath rapture find its way into teaching in 1970 by Robert Van Kampen, who was an American business man and neither a preacher, scholar or teacher. But its difficult to argue that any scholar wrote about it before. So pre-wrath is a quite recent and imho made up doctrine and interpretation with no historical foundation.
Mid-tribulation (if considered as after 6 and before seal number 7) might be found in writings of Victorinus of Petrovium. When I read his writings about Rev15, I see a pre-trib rapture because he writes that the church has been taken away when the 7 angels pour out the wrath of God. For me it does not mean that the church has been taken away short before that happens. It just means, the church is not there and I think mentioning the church in that passage might be more of a side note, that the church is not there rather than a writing dedicated and focusing to where the church is and when it was taken. If Victorinus wanted to make a clear statement contradicting what has been taught historically before and in his time, then he would have made that statement clear and explicit. If you want to contradict almost 250 years of teaching, then you make your point, but he did not...
I personally think that - considering that the scroll to open is the deed of Christ, who owns all creation (Hebrews) - Jesus takes ownership of His inheritance and unfolds His judgement. And he does so by opening the 7 seals first. But starting with the 1st seal, its all in the hand and caused by our Lord Jesus Christ. We have many men-made tribulations. But starting with the 1st seal it all is done by Christ. Even if the evil, even if satan is released, then only because the Lord Jesus Christ allows the world to face the one they decided to follow, the prince of light, the god of this world. But all what happens is His wrath right from the beginning. With the seals Gods handwriting might not be obvious to the eyes of the world that look for scientific explanations, but it becomes more and more clear and at every time people can turn to God and seek for forgiveness. Let us pray that they do!
So in a nutshell, nobody ever talked about a pre-wrath, but with Polycarp with have a student of Apostle Paul, with Irenaenus a student of Polycarp. With we read 1st and 2nd Thes, Matthew and Luke I think without trying to make it rocket-science, we read a pre-trib rapture and thats exactly what early church fathers write about. The way you interpret the scripture to conclude a pre-wrath rapture was no point for almost 2000 years and I think that shows quite well that there is something wrong with that approach.
God bless!
David, your father, Marvin missed a few things, and now you are missing the same things. Most bible students think "the tribulation" or the 70th Week of Daniel begins at the 1st seal. That is incorrect and is pulling the first seal out of its early church context. The truth is, just as your dad wrote, that the rapture must come just before the 6th seal start of God's wrath. Sadly, your father tried to move the 6th seal from where John placed it-between the 5th and 7th seals.
In Revelation 4 and 5, we see first (chapter 4) the Holy Spirit still in the throne room, then in chapter 5 Jesus ascension and Him sending the Holy Spirit down as soon as He arrived back in the throne room. Jesus ascended around 32 AD, entered the throne room, and went, right then, to take the book from the Father and began, right then, to open the first seals. The first seal, opened around 32 AD aligns with the great commission. It is to represent the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the world.
Seals 2, 3, and 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wild beasts in his attempts.
Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age. They want to know when God will judge their murders, but are told that the time of judgment must wait for the FINAL church age martyr. In short, that is a huge hint to the time of the rapture, which will come just before the 6th seal start of wrath. Both your father and Robert Van Kampen believed that the rapture and the Day of the Lord will be back-to-back events. I also believe that. It fits what John wrote at the 5th and 6th seals.
With all that said, the 70th will will then begin a few days later at the opening of the 7th seal and with the first trumpet. Once God told me (in what seemed like an audible voice) that He has MARKED the entire 70th week. I found His markers: He marked the 70th week with SEVENS: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the week will end at the 7th bowl.
Since 6 comes before 7 in counting, we can KNOW the rapture will be pre-trib: it will come just before God's wrath begins at the 6th seal, with the "tribulation" or 70th week beginning at the 7th seal.
We can KNOW the rapture will be pre-trib because 7 comes before 8 in counting. John saw the church safely in heaven in Revelation 7, and then wrote of the start of the Week in chapter 8.
The theory that the Day of the Lord will not begin until somewhere in the middle of the last half of the 70th Week is nothing but imagination. It is one of the seals sealing the BOOK, and the trumpet judgments (probably the entire 70th week) are written INSIDE the book. It is absolutely impossible to move a seal to anywhere else. They have been and will continue to be opened in sequence.
Van Kampen TOTALLY MISSED IT when he imagined that all references to the sun turning dark were of ONE SINGLE event. The truth is, the sun will turn black, like it does in a total eclipse, as a sign for the start of the DAY: Revelation 6. But in Matthew 24, when the sun is "darkened," Strong tells us that if it is used for heavenly bodies, it means the absence of light-in other words, total darkness. This is the sign for Christ's coming to Armageddon-in Revelation chapter 19. Again, the sign for God's wrath and the DAY of His wrath is in Revelation 6.
These two signs, total eclipses first, then seven years later total darkness, are for two very different events.
The question is are the seals an overview of the entire book or Rev? If that's the case, then the 6th seal happens in the middle someplace.
Question regarding the { beginning of sorrows}: that seems like it could possibly be much longer than only 3 1/2 years, how do you interpret this to be only 3 1/2 years, since the things described during the{beginning of sorrows} are things that have been already happening and gradually increasing and becoming more intense, could not therefore the {beginning of sorrows} period be much longer than only 3 1/2 years, perhaps even decades or more?
No because Daniel's 70th week is a week of 7 years only with the last 3-1/2 being the great tribulation and ending with The Day of the Lord, God's wrath.
If Jesus doesn't know when he's coming back then I don't believe anyone else can know. Just be prepared and ready at all times because He is coming back no matter if you're pre trib, mid trib or post trib.
exactly
To understand the wonderful truth of the pre trib rapture, one must be saved
Are you actually implying that those who don't agree with the Pre-Trib view are not saved?
The pre trib people are following the example of those who believe in evolution. They have to keep moving the start of their timeline to be earlier and earlier in order to try and shoehorn in their beliefs and force it to fit Scripture. They refuse to let go of their preconceived ideas and notions in order to just read the plain text without any agenda.
Hallaluha brother, they have become like chamelions constantly changing. As far as imminent return of Christ is concerned, I showed my Pastor Rev. 12:10 were Satan is cast down to earth and salvation can come now. He said never saw that and thought Satan had been cast out of Heaven long ago. Most Pastors don't read or understand the book of Revelation. Or is it willful ignorance?
I've got no earthly idea what you were trying to get across...not being critical, but seriously...where's your argument from scripture? As far as reading the "PLAIN TEXT" as you note, those who align with the pre-trib/pre-mill position are really the ones who consistently interpret scripture PLAINLY, literally, & in it's historical context. *MARANATHA!*
@@Kman. I agree with you 100%
@@Kman. Rev 20:4 CLEARLY and plainly says that the FIRST (mass) resurrection, the resurrection of the dead in Christ happens AFTER the Mark of the Beast has caused many CHRISTIANS to be beheaded. Do you take that literally, or do you ADD TO THE TEXT several more resurrections, or laughably imaginary "several phases of resurrection"?
The Olivet discourse, spoken ONLY to Jesus' disciples and recorded by three different gospel authors, states they will see rescue AFTER the tribulation. Do you take that as it is written, or do you pretend that Jesus was talking to people who were not there, were not the ones asking the questions, and would never have listened or believed? ALSO, do you accept that it was ONE speech at ONE time given to ONE audience; or do you pretend that Jesus was speaking to unbelieving absent Jews when Matthew wrote out what he said, but speaking to the church when the other two authors recorded that same speech?
Rev. 13 and 14 show the harlot city Babylon destroyed prior to the marriage of the lamb being announced and guests invited. Do you take that literally, or say it must be out of order?
Amos 3 states that God does nothing unless he FIRST tells his prophets and his people. Do you take that literally? Or do you believe that God "telling his people" means that you decide what you want to believe, and then find parables and historical narratives that you can re-imagine in order to see "hints" to "prove" what you already decided is true.
@@nickstaxfree9604 excellent
Sooth sayings are sweet for the ears of those who are unsaved and selfish. We want to save others through tribulations and leaving it for others is a sin. All Chistians are called for evangelising and chosen and became faithful to Jesus Christ. Their own security and safty is the last wish of a true Christian. That is what our savior Jesus Christ taught. Those who save will lose it and those who lost it for others will be saved for Christendom.
The fundamental error underlying all of these interpretations is the presumption that the period of tribulation is seven years prior to the second advent of Christ. A misapplication of Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks, placing the seventieth week of seven years at a point immediately preceding the Day of the Lord, leads to a complex cascade of misinterpretations. It is not so complicated. Read Matthew 24:21 to 31 to understand when the tribulation _began_ and when it will end.
So why doesn’t scripture, Revelation, tell us that at the 7th Trumpet is sounded, when it tells us all that will happen, we need to guess that the rapture will be included?
Revelation 3:10 we will not be there. After revelation chapter 3, church not mentioned anymore. We are rapture
@@JacquelineCopeland-zp7sjhow do you get a 7 year tribulation from the phrase “hour of trial“? If the pre trib rapture were so true then why did Jesus never mention it?
The rapture happens after the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened. Read Revelation 7:9. This the same as Matthew 24:29 and Nark 14:24.
There is no Rapture in Revelation 11 during the 7th trumpet
Actually Jesus said that from the "Beginning of Birth Pangs" to the "End" will be the span of a generation, not 7 years (Mat 24:34).
What are your thoughts about the “last trump” being the second ram’s horn from Isaac’s binding?
Please compare Rev 14:14-20 to all Rapture verses. It is the 7th trumpet. The Harvest of the earth / compare to Matthew 13:24-30 and 13:37-43 Harvest at the End of the Age. Others: Joel 3:13 / Luke 21:27 / Matt 24:30 / 1 Thes 4:17 / Isaiah 24 / 1 Cor 15:51 / Jude 14 / Dan 7:13 / Rev 10: 6-7
Mr Rosenthal: It’s written in Matthew 24:1-3: “Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, ‘Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.’ Now as He (Christ) sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, (1) Tell us when will these things be? (2) And what will be the SIGN of your coming, and of the end of the age?
The temple buildings were utterly destroyed in 70AD with not one stone left upon another! However, there is a near and far fulfillment. But the future temple will not be destroyed; only the outer court will be given to the Gentiles. And the Gentiles will tread the holy city underfoot for 3 1/2 years.(Rev. 11:1-3). (Also NOTE the man “with the measuring rod!” Note Ezekiel 40:40!)
And last, but not least, the word SIGN is singular and not plural! and you completely misinterpreted the meaning!
Agree with all of this and this is also what my church teaches too. I have been watching your videos along with others for a few years and believe pre-wrath is most Bibilical position. However, just had one question pertaining to 'day of the Lord' for the following verse, 4:17 Then they who are alive, shall be caught up together into the clouds with them who remain, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we be ever with the Lord. How does this verse reconcile with [raptured church] being the great multitude in Rev. 7? That's the only thing I am just curious about. I'm an amateur, so it could be something obvious I have missed! Blessings to you and your wonderful ministry.
The simple meaning of 1 Thess 4:15-17 is that those of us who believe in Christ, and remain (Strongs Concordance Greek word - περιλείπω; transliteration - perileipomai; meaning - to survive) at His coming, are those who have survived the persecution of the anti-christ during the Great Tribulation.
Now at some point, the Great Tribulation (anti-Christ's persecution of ALL believers in Christ) has got to end and the Day of the Lord (destruction of ALL non-believers) begins. If you read Rev 6:17, it says that "for the great day of their wrath has come and who can stand?" Whose wrath? God's wrath on the wicked. Since we (ALL believers) are not appointed to God's wrath, all believers in Christ (the dead and the living) are caught up together (I do not like the word "rapture") to Heaven before His wrath begins.
Another word can be expressed the same thought instead of rapture “be caught up”.
Tony I agree with James’s answer.
Important to note is that the chapters in the book of Revelation tell a complete story but they are not necessarily sequential or chronological.....but when scripture is used to interpret scripture, then the whole gestalt forms.
You ready for the real secret to 1 Thess 4:16-17? Okay here it is.
It has nothing to do with the Tribulation. All these so-called people who have studied the Bible don't understand basic Christianity.
When Adam sinned he lost 3 things:
1) His spiritual life. That happened instantly
2) His physical life. That happened after 930 years.
3) His dominion over the earth. He allowed Satan and his henchmen to come in here and disrupt the rightful order of man's dominion over the activities of the planet. That is why Satan runs the world governments and the kingdoms of this planet.
So Jesus came, as the Second Adam to redeem all that Adam had lost.
1) He redeemed your spiritual life at Calvary. The moment you accept him as Lord you become spiritually alive. When you die your soul goes to heaven.
But your physical body still dies. Last time I checked man still goes back into the ground. So clearly that has not been redeemed.
Satan is still ruling this planet. As far as I can tell there is a ton of wickedness all over the place. So clearly that has not been redeemed yet.
So when do the other two issues get redeemed? Enter 1 Thess 4:16-17.
First those who are in heaven will get their bodies reunited with their souls (verse 16). Then we who are alive, will get caught up in the air to meet those who are in heaven. We get our bodies transformed mid-flight. 1 Cor 15:52 in a blink of an eye.
The rapture is simply what redeems your physical life. All the saints of God get their immortal incorruptible bodies so that we can go between heaven and earth. The rapture has nothing to do with salvation. That work was already done at Calvary. So it has nothing to do with how tough you are standing up for Jesus.
When does the earth get redeemed? After all, Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth. It belongs to those who are raptured in 1 Thess 4:16-17. there is only one problem. There are a ton of wicked people and Satan and his buddies all still hanging around the earth. They don't want to leave. How do they get removed? Over a 7 year period called the Tribulation. The 21 judgments are designed to systematically remove kingdoms and wicked people from the planet. In fact when you actually walk through Revelation correctly and you do the math, you see that nearly 99% of the population is killed. There is just a small group of Jews and a handful of people from every nation left to repopulate the earth during the Millennial Reign.
And if 99% of the population is killed how does God decide who gets raptured and who lives to enter the Millennial Reign as a mortal? Because you have to have both for the Reign to be realistic. Does God play favorites? I don't think so. I think 1 Thess 4:16-17 is the one event that everyone goes together. It can't be at the end because there is no one left "alive to get caught up." At least not enough to fulfill the great multitudes that no one can count. God is a God of order. He already redeemed our spiritual life. The physical life must be redeemed before the eviction process of the earth begins. Christians don't repopulate the earth, we rule over the mortals who rebuild. So the logical order is that it comes at the beginning of the Tribulation.
Pastors, preachers, evangelists,& believers., when tribulation begins we will having lot of work to do ___preventing people from taking the mark of the beast & worshipping him along with teaching gospel of Christ. & eternal life. Or involved in intense prayers for them & their miraculous physical & spiritual salvation.
There will be great persecution & great miracles like in the old times.
Many servants of God will lose all fear & volunteer to die preaching the Gospel...( In short).....
Some Christians talk of rapture before the revelation of the Antichrist & the tribulations & escape leaving this divine obligations.