Pokémon's Decline - Same As It Ever Was
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- It's been a year since we were graced with the release of Pokémon Sword and Shield, and after revisiting the Generation in which I began my Pokémon journey, I've done some pondering - what has become of this franchise that we've loved for maybe too long? So I made a video about it. You should watch it.
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Sword and Shield Review: • Pokémon: Sword and Shi...
Temtem Review: • Temtem - Not Quite a P...
MUSIC USED (in order):
- Pokémon Diamond and Pearl OST: Opening Selection
- Pokémon Sword and Shield OST: Spikemuth Theme
- Pokémon Diamond and Pearl OST: Eterna City (Night)
- Pokémon Diamond and Pearl OST: Mt. Coronet
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of the Sky OST: Treasure Town
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of the Sky OST: Mt. Bristle
- Pokémon Diamond and Pearl OST: Route 205 (Night)
- Temtem OST: House at Day
- Pokémon GO OST: Professor (Main Theme)
- Pokémon Diamond and Pearl OST: Pokémon League Day
#Pokémon #davo_
CREATOR'S NOTE: Some of you have been quick to point it out - I completely forgot about the Physical/Special split being added in Gen IV. My bad. Though perhaps my clear and obvious bias for Gen IV is slightly more justified now...
Online was another big one. The first pokemon game to not require cables
You’re my favorite gaming channel by far bro, I’ve seen all your videos at least once, so underrated. Keep it up dude, it always brings me joy to see another one of your videos. You have a great taste in games and a knack for good narration without devolving into meme cuts every five seconds like most other channels
Davo you may like the pokemon mod for minecraft. Its far better than it sounds lol
also missed abilities being introduced in gen 3
Don't forget different seasons in gen 5
GameFreak is that trainer that trades their pokemon while holding an everstone...
AAAA- KIDS KIDS LISTEN
DO NOT TRADE THAT MEDICHAM. DO. NOT.
AH, VERY APT!
What scares me more is the guy in ur pfp 😭
You mean Mindy?
No fair Gamefreak! You said I'd get Alakazam and all i got was Kadabra. =(
Pokemon as a franchise has stopped evolving, now it just gets bigger without changing.
It's fitting then that the latest gimmick they introduced is Dynamax.
But it is evolving, but backwards
Smaller without changing*
Gen 8 factually has less content than Gen 7.
@@machina5 but the franchise is growing. More total content (gen 8 IS a new game to add to the pile, and there are more toys, a new anime, more spin-off games etc), higher sales figures, etc.
@@platiuscyndar9017 its almost like the show was planned out and made before swsh
@Pokémon & FF fan that was present in all the pokemon games to some extent. I see you on videos trying to defend the series. If you cared about the series as much as you want us to believe, you would support people criticizing the series for its obvious flaws
One of the big problems is the pandering. Sword and shield were just like “REMEMBER THIS FROM GEN 1...” when games since gen 6 have been doing that. They don’t move forward,they just shove charizard and old features down our throats.
They tried to move on with gen 5 but we all know how that went.
And I'm still dissapointed at the fans because of that😕
They don't even shove the old features down our throats anymore, like, remember mega evolutions? z crystals?
They literally even removed the pokébank, which was the most rewarding thing about pokémons series because you never “lose progress”
@White-Van Helsing Nah, gen 3, 4 and 5 were very deliberately being their own things.
@@brandonbrown6922 especially gen 5. You could only encounter new Unova pokemon until you beat the game!
I thought pokemon black and white was a great game and that they took a great risk but everyone dragged it through the dirt and now they don’t like taking risks.
Gen 8 was just a fuck up. Terrible story, no villain team, and super easy. They had a great story opportunity with Rose and Oleana but noooo "itS gOtTa bE kId FrIenDlY".
And honestly I blame exact those people who dragged BW down.
I remember back than, people were actually complaining why they couldn't catch the old pokemon, only the new ones.
This shitshow was ridiculous.
I don't even get why black and white were so hated I absolutely loved them a new region brand new pokemon heavy emphasis on story banging soundtrack and a good step forward from gen 4
Ironically gen 5 was best gen, objectively.
Gen 4-5 was peak pokemon.
Gen 6 started the decline.
Change my mind.
@@CBreezie fair enough though I feel like it goes
Gen 4 - 10
Gen 5 - 9
Xy - 6
Oras - 7
Sm - 8
Usum (should have been free dlc) - 6
LGPE - 5
Gen 8 - 3
“Gen 4 really didn’t bring much”
*The physical/special split starts crying in the background*
Wifi starts sobbing
Remember he started with Gen 4, so it wasnt a big deal to him. He doesn't remember when Fire punch was better on Alakazam then Hitmonchan
@@johngibson4874 It's weird to realize that there's people that think that way, and you worded in quite a simple way too. Neat. I need to loosen up some.
Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness on the GameCube was more innovative and looks better than these newer games
I am currently playing XD and I am always amazed that it doesn‘t just have better battle animation (which is the focus after all), it also has better character animations in places! They don‘t just cut to black for everything!
Don't forget the most beautiful Pokémon game of them all: Pokémon mystery Dungeon explorers of time/darkness/sky.
That game was a masterpiece.
Colosseum and XD is what happens when a developer other than Gamefreak is allowed to make a Pokemon game.
I want more games like XD and Coliseum!
Colosseum and XD made better use of the battle sandbox and the storytelling potential, but for exploration it was a bit flat compared to Hoenn. Still, of the three gameplay pillars they lean on, XD and Colosseum blew them out of the water. People wouldnt mind it being turn based if that kind of thought was put into designing the games from top to bottom.
"No wonder why their mascot is Ash's Pikachu, both refuse to evolve"
-classic line I found on the internet
Didn't he almost have to evolve once to win against Bob's Raichu but it was quickly solved and everything was fine? That's what happened with Gen 5. In the end, Pikachu IS the perfect mascot for Pokémon!
@@ondiiina pikachu was given a choice to evolve or not and it chose to not evolve
@@ondiiina They did that shit when Ash lost to Surge too, i actualy have this weird memory in the back of my head that it possible happened a THIRD time
Ash too, he’s a child forever.
Even though I started with Gen 3 but I would say Gen 5 was the best. My dream Pokemon would be a mix of Gen 5 and Heartgold/Soul silver. Their mechanics and graphics what made me love them. (Too lazy to expand this further since nobody would even read this)
EDIT: Woah! I did not expect that some would actually read this comment. I'm happy to know that many who share the love of Gen 5. Actually at first, my opinion about Gen 5 was negative at first because of all the bandwagon hate on the designs, yada yada. But I run out of games and decided to replay Black and there I fell in love with it especially the quality of life improvements with its sequel. Important lesson here, don't make final judgement on a game based on opinion of many, try it first yourself and decide if it's good or not.
ALSO! Pokemon Conquest is the best spin-off game. I mean where can you find Samurais and Pokemon. It needs more love. Ironically it was released at the same time with BW2 and it was overshadowed by it...
it makes me happy to see how in the pas everybody hated gen 5 because oh the ice cream pokemon but now we had so much worse that people have started to see how it did things way better then any other gen
it was allways my favorite ever since i played it and i started with yellow it just has way more things to do with a way better story and way better region even the last point is a bit subjective the amount of opitional places to explore gave the game a feeling of exploration that no other pokemon game gave me
@@valletas My brother played through White 2 after finally wanting to see how recycled it might be but immediately the game asks "do you know what a pokemon/pokedex/menu is?" and you're right ahead on your journey. Its the best pokemon game simply because it feels like an ACTUAL game, not a "pokemon" game
@@valletas it’s what I call the Metal Gear Solid 2 Effect... where people hate the game for a dumb af reason then people realise the games quality after the petty bitching
Wasn’t gen 5 the generation that reverted back to old sleep mechanics and introduced lando-t?
@@polygondeath2361 yea but who cares lmao it’s the best pokemon game content wise
I always have mental images of what areas like Ecruteuk City or Saffron City would look in full 3D with a semi-open world and beautiful graphics, and then I look at Sword and Shield and my smile drops.
At least we have Heartgold and fan games like Crystal Clear and Radical Red...
You wanna see ecruteak and saffron in an open world? U should play crystal clear
@@LukeOrionMarble I second that
Or if you want an old experience you can try Pokemon 3D
@@hydrorobot6610 or pokeOne
Pretty sure I saw a video that summed it up perfectly: They don't innovate or even put more than the basic amount of effort into the game because they don't have to. Why bother putting more effort into your game when you know it will sell no matter what you do?
Could they make it Pokémon look like a AAA game with crazy visuals, massive open world, all 900+ Pokémon, and tons of polish and still turn an easy profit? Yea of course but why bother when they don't have to?
I too have seen that video. It was this one.
The one time they tried making the games better people were like: "Uuh, garbage pokemon? Bro, cringe" and didn't buy it. No wonder they went in this direction.
@@vermillioncatus1539 facts i used to hate black and white but now that ive played it i can safely say its top 3 in my opinions having only new pokemon is great even if some of designs are literal trash
@prickly pear That is inefficient. I really don’t think you could reasonably gather a large enough number of people to not buy the game. Pokémon has become far too large of a franchise for that to affect it. You’d have to somehow influence all the children that beg their parents to buy these games every few years to start caring about game design. They don’t care. Boycotts won’t solve anything.
What we need is an amazing competitor so that people like us who want a better game can have it and everyone else who is ignorant can keep buying Pokémon. That won’t fix Pokémon, but if by some miracle the competing franchise becomes popular enough, it might begin to have a tangible effect on Pokémon sales, at least when it comes to games, because merchandising is where all franchises make most of their money, believe it or not (which means that, yeah, it won’t affect Pokémon). I believe there is real potential for such a competitor. Even if it doesn’t affect Pokémon at all, we can at least feel satisfied playing the better game.
prickly pear Nope, people are going to forget all about this when the next game come out because they will be busy drooling over a new “gimmick” that give an illusion that its a different game. All the people “boycotting” will still buy the game, find nothing new, cry about it saying “lets boycott the next game!” while gamefreak wipe their asses with your money
Pokemon is no longer a video game franchise, the game are there to promote merchandise, the anime,... I guess having a cute and colorful mascot is enough to trick the average consumer.
It’s not that you look back on the first pokemon generation with rose tinted glasses, it’s that experiencing Pokémon for the first time will give you the best experience because nothing changes over generations.
No competition, no need for experimentation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Even the spin off series have stagnated like Mystery Dungeon, and where the hell have the Ranger games gone?
It's not lack of competition its peoples unwillingness to try anything else of the same genre without brainlessly screaming rip off.
It's both. Digimon only recently is getting actual good games and TemTem is shoot at it. Literaly no one tried something for years.
The best bet for any real competition , it's a huge company coming with better version of Pokémon. Or some huge company taking over Digimon and make popular as Pokémon.
Yeah, it really bothers me that they’ve been ignoring their side-games for a while now. Personally I loved the Ranger and Mystery Dungeon games just as fiercely (if not more) than the mainline games
In fact, aside from the md remake, there hasn't been a non mobile spin off after pokemon go. Such a shame, my favorite pokemon games are spin offs. Battle revolution, pokken, rumble, pokepark, etc. Its really disappointing other devs cant get creative with pokemon because mobile games are just the most profitable...
I mean Rescue Team DX was good though 😕
9:00 There is a way to reduce the need for grinding fo more experienced players. Make the trainers use actual strategies. Like Pokemon Colosseum does on Battle Mountain. There you regularly fight double battles against trainers with incredible teams and very good AI.
Some examples:
Toxic user + Gutsy
Full Rain Dance team (Thunder, Ludicolo, Swift Swim and so on)
Full Sun team (Fire pokes, Solar beam, Synthesis and so on)
Skill Swap + Slaking to get rid pf Truent
And many more incredible teams.
It doesnt even need to be doubles! There are tons of utility they could use! Switching, Healing Wish, buffs and debuffs, a Guts user having Toxic or Flame Orbs and other interesting uses of items, entry hazards, weather, terrains, speed control, Baton Pass, trapping, passive damage, moves like Volt Switch and U-Turn, Safeguard/Reflect and moves of their ilk that dont directly give stat buffs. There is a ton of utility JUST in singles, and then theres doubles and triples. All three styles have drastically different battle styles, its nuts.
And Colosseum does better at making you run low on PP, so in a dungeon you may be unable to use your best Pokemon for the situation if you use all of its moves. It doesnt really counter going back to heal between battles amazingly well, but overall, with the unbalanced Pokemon Colosseum and XD had to work with, they did wonders.
And I mean really, Altaria evolves at 35 and can seem like a middle evo at times, in spite of your starters evolving at that point and some like Gyrados that are useful earlier. The balance is all over the place for individual mons.
Or... Difficulty settings! I really hope they bring those back and they are not locked behind defeating the game on normal.
If I'm not mistaken, the final boss of Pokemon Colosseum actually does the Skill Swap + Slaking trick.
Though that does look intimidating to newer players I would try something that is accessible yet challenging at the same time
I feel like Pokémon kind of peaked at gen V, then kinda just went downhill
Edit: I know there’s going to be someone who automatically assumes I hate the ones after gen 5, but no. I just thought they were ok. My favorite out of the newer generations is ultra sun. Feel free to voice your opinion on the newer generations (respectfully) in the replies.
absolutely
Same
It’s not a feeling, it did peak at gen V, unfortunately people back then didn’t like the new changes gamefreak made, and now the same people complain that there isn’t any change at all, ironic
It did
Agreed
Gamefreak actually did take a risk with Gold and Silver by including the entire map to the Kanto region in the game at the end, effectively doubling the game you got to play. In a way they were the perfect sequels, they iterated and improved on the first games. If the series was ever going to truly innovate and mix up its formula it would have done it in either gen 3 or 4. Instead those generations were what set the trend for the series just creating soft reboots for the main games and occasionally full blown remasters (leafgreen, heartgold, etc.). And before anyone writes me off as a nostalgic genwunner my first (and still admittedly favorite) game was Ruby.
Except that wasn't taking a risk at all, since that was unplanned. They couldn't even fit the Johto region on the cartridge at first, so they brought in outside help for file compression and after that had enough space to add (most of) Kanto too. That's why they'd cut things like the Cinnabar Island and Safari Zone among others.
And even if it was planned, how would that have been a risk in the first place? People loved the Kanto region and giving them that in addition to the new region is just pandering to nostalgia and playing it safe, so it's merely a smart business decision.
What was an actual risk was when in Gen5 they didn't let you use any of the old Pokemon until post-game
gamefreak didnt take that risk, Satoru Iwata did. Gamefreak were too incompetent to get all of johto onto the cardridge. So he came in, reworked everything so it fit, had space left over, put in kanto, and probably removed a million bugs that made red/blue look like a bugless masterpiece.
gen 5 was everything we now want that game took huge risks and was made for the older fans, it also is the only gen with an interesting true sequel, gen 2 really wasn't that engaging in my opinion.
Guess you appreciate things the most when they are gone.
tbf there are a lot of good arguments that including Kanto in Gold&Silver was a terrible idea that forever hurt Jhoto. So much development time was taken away from fleshing out Jhoto to the point the game would be considered trash if Kanto wasn't attached. And even then the Kanto attached is a barren lifeless version of the original region.
Jhoto as a region suffered because they wanted to add Kanto.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Funny thing is, if gamefreak ran the show till the end all of the johto we have know wouldnt even be on the cardridge.
You still owe me $50.
what do i owe you 50 dollarydoos for cob?
@@davo_ Bangkok, 2017, The Quarter Ari room 107. I had to pay for that mess.
nah nah you must have me confused for some other axolotl-man
@@davo_ Don't dodge this, pay the poor man
@@davo_ You dont actually hate Starbound, do you? I think some fans just harassed you and made you feel bitter. There are a lot of mods that can make it fun, and thats worth playing, dont you think? People are using Fallout 4's systems to remake Fallout 3 and New Vegas, that just shows how many amazing things modders can do.
To be fair, they tried something new with black and white and that didn’t sell as well as other Pokémon games. That was probably the crossroads for where we are today.
Black & White were more a fake reboot with plenty of flawed decisions & choice of quantity over quality rather than a true innovative game in the series. Gen 6 had more innovation than Gen 5 with features the series had been needing for quite some time like Trainer Customization & the better way to manage EVs. Gen 6 also had the only type addition to the series following Gen 2 & the addition of Mega Evolutions for examples of innovation.
Now Gen 5 was the crossroads that led to dexit happening, & you could argue problems during Gen 5 led to Gen 6 getting rushed out with 1 year less of development time than the 2 previous generations. Gen 6 of course seemed to get way too much hate for the poor balancing that made the Last Gym & Elite 4 too easy & lack of postgame compared to several games that came before. Personally I think we should ask when Pokemon will require us to win a 9th or 10th Gym Badge to challenge the Elite 4.
@WaterKirby1994 exactly gen 5 really did nothing different, it was a gen 1 remake literally
The comment about turn based combat being outdated is so garbage. It’s a combat style that still has a place in modern times. If you play online or against other players you’ll see the true fun of the game and you’ll realize it’s not a game of just “pick the super effective move.” That’s where the issue lies. The issue lies in the casual main story and offline battles. It’s too formulaic and simple to truly enjoy the fun of the game’s combat system. That’s not a fault of the combat system. That’s a fault of the game design. As much as I would love a crazy new Pokémon game where maybe my Pokémon battle In real time and I have more control over them, I would still want the classic gameplay. I wouldn’t want to see it disappear entirely because honestly that’s what makes Pokémon what it is. The game design and difficulty needs work. Main story is a brain dead experience at this point
That's why Clover is so great, you actually have to be good at pokemon
It didn't say "turn based combat is outdated" it said "pokemon's turn based combat system" is outdated. And it is to be honest. The core doesn't need to be scrapped, but there are so many innovations to turn based games that have been made that aren't even acknowledged by gamefreak. Just look at temtem or other turn based games for examples of innovations that could be made, without having to scrap pokemon's game design.
Agreed. The turn based better stay like this or I never buy a Pokémon Game again. Turn based has its place. Just look at Dragon Quest for instance. In my opinion the gameplay doesn't have to change. If it did it wouldn't be what we enjoy. It's the world in the game that gotta change. The evil teams are not what they used to, the funny things you could do are not here anymore like ball stickers, contenst, etc. The games are just babied down. It's really sad.
Outdated my ass... oh hey Persona 5 Royal yea totally not one of the most popular games of the last generation
Your right; its such a garbage perspective. The Lets Go games removed it from catching pokemon and it was too unbearable for me to play.
They're just uninspired games. Not even close to what we thought Pokemon would look like in the future. Or feel like.
My dad has many big positions in every internet provider company imaginable he will shut all of them down just to take away your enjoyment of the internet
@@cheifricecrispee4794 my dad wrks at googol hel ban ur accont forever
TF are all of these replies?
"Not even close to what we thought Pokemon would look like in the future"
Literally as well, looking at the overall poor quality of Pokémon designs after Gen 4
Sad facts
The problem with pokemon isn't really the turn based gameplay per se, it's that they don't do much interesting stuff with it in the story modes. Turn based combat and the "formulaic" structure works well for the competitive scene as long as new viable mons get introduced in new gens (Gen 2 was a bruh moment for this)
I'll preface this by saying I am no means a Pokemon expert, but from where I'm standing I don't think the developers CAN do much interesting with Pokemon outside of the story modes.
The way Pokemon as a franchise is set up, the actual JRPG complexity of the series is pretty much *all* in team compositions at endgame. That works great for competitive battles, but what most players consider the primary content of a Pokemon game and most games for that matter, the main story, easily consists of just using the same basic moves over and over again and *at most* making sure you have a well-typed Pokemon to steamroll a gym.
Even in other JRPGs that revolve heavily around type weaknesses like the Persona series, you get scenarios like group battles with intersecting type weaknesses/resistances. _(eg. 2 enemies weak to thunder, but 1 enemy that reflects thunder)_
To use a different genre for comparison, this'd be like if you're playing a traditional fighting game, with the usual mechanical depth you'd expect from a fighting game, except in all the singleplayer modes, every single AI opponent can be beaten with 100% consistency by standing in place and pressing the punch button over and over. And you need to beat ~50 hours worth of that before unlocking the online mode. And the animations, audiovisual feedback, and feel of the actual game itself are all unbelievably terrible.
I definitely agree though that the fundamental issue with Pokemon isn't that it's a JRPG, _(it should stay that way- deviating from that formula would probably send the franchise further away from the right direction. at most the out of combat formula could stand a total rework but the RPG gameplay is core to the series)_ it's that it's a really bad JRPG.
@@darthvaderreviews6926 Incentivizing the use of setup moves and making the game a lot more difficult with better trainer AI and more powerful gym leaders would be a start. Kids and casuals got still get through it by grinding, while experiended players could setup good teams with proper moves like in competitive.
Competitive pokemon is so great and the main reason why pokemon has all these adult fans, the core games should be as similar to competivive play as possible IMO, that would make the turn based combat a "neutral" part of the game instead of a detrimental factor.
Persona/ Shin Megami Tensei is still going strong with turn based combat with P5R being probably the most popular JRPG of this generation
Id like to say that the series did actually get worse. There was a balance with exploration, combat, and story. Two of the pillars were relatively strong, if combat was underexplored to an ungodly degree. You could argue earlier generations, like gen 2 and 3, did better at using multiple mechanics within the story itself to pose more interesting challenges to overcome, but still, there is a ton of depth that is left unused except by the most hardcore of fans in competitive communities, while it could be used for difficulty balancing.
People HAVE shown, with fangames or even unrelated turn based games, that even a system as simple as Pokemon's can be enthralling. Buffs, debuffs, moves that work outside of those confines while providing a preferable gaming state (think hazards, damage over time, and even Reflect and Safeguard), status, priority and speed manipulation, including Trick Room, forcing your foe to be unable to use items. The battle system is legitimately stacked with ideas that could be fun to toy with. Whats more, in earlier generations in a playthrough you were usually strapped for cash, meaning something like a Repel might not be a viable expense, and while with a full team running out of moves is nearly never a concern, in the earliest games that did fufill the role of mp, sp, exc with how limited it was and how it could force you into an uncomfortable position in a dungeon when you are not careful.
Not explored well, but it is far from outdated at present. It simply has nearly all of its mechanics underutilized. As for the gimmics, Megas were functionally usually akin to having a legendary on your team, Z-Moves both could break the game and status ones could force your foe into an unwinnable position, and Dynamax basically trivializes singles to the point to where it can decide the game outright, while in doubles... It still can but theres more counterplay. Temtem did offer a different take on the battle system, but at least the stamina could be utilized with PP as is, if you were forced to nearly run out along a route or cave. Perhaps forced to rebattle foes to prevent cheesing the system by heading back to heal frequently until that area is marked as "cleared."
I dont honestly think that the main series titles will ditch the turn based battles. And thats fine. The likes of Golden Sun and Octopath Traveler are amazing titles for vastly different reasons. However, Ill say both are better at being Turn Based RPGs, capable of understanding the appeal and challenging you, and Golden Sun is better at being an RPG for someone new to the genre. Golden Sun kicks your teeth in if you are unprepared, while also not being so hard you must grind to continue on, even if sometimes you might. You should get all you need from progressing, and if you struggle the Djinn arent that hard to track down, or you could swap the Djinn you already have to completely change your learnset.
From the story and structure perspective, I must admit that you have a point. You could be anything- PI, it could be localized in a city wth you as a student or something, a police officer tracking someone across the region, a criminal, or reformed one.
Exploration has been peeled back over time. Even as late as gen 5 there were fairly sizable offshoots with a reason to go exploring. Compare it to Sword and Shield, or even Sun and Moon, where you have basically hallways and a firm guiding hand. They tried their hands at storytelling, but you could say the best games for that were either Black and White, or else the Kanto games, where the gyms, evil team and rival, while simple, interlocked and connected it all throughout the experience.
The games are designed to be more streamlined for casual players, and while the core of the series still is incredibly powerful and addicting, it is being made easier to the point it is kind of insulting. Even as early as XY progression down that path was a major issue- the titles arent hard to begin with, underutilizing its absolutely massive sandbox of battle options, and not balancing the final evolutions to make the choices more varied and interesting. Something that evolves at 35, Altaria, is far weaker than many of the things available before that point, fully evolved and not. The games dont need to change that much on a technical level to be interesting, they just need to be made and balanced well.
Could they drastically change the formula? Sure, but part of its core appeal is that its a turn based RPG at this point. Platforming is Marios core principal, and exploration is Zelda's. Marios can be either 2D or 3D and work perfectly fine either way. Legend of Zelda Breath of The Wild was made as a callback to the original, designed comparable to the original way it was envisioned. Neither are leaving any of their core appeals behind to change. The major issue with Pokemon is that its 1, likely going to stay turnbased, 2, likely going to keep being unbelievable easy, and 3, even if the world was made more open and explorable, its the exploring that would likely be fleshed out by that, and as you noted they seem deathly afraid of not firmly holding your hand as you work through the story.
2 and 3 may be reversed, but likely itll be spinoff games that have the kind of gameplay exploration you wish for. This isnt inherently bad, but as you can see from other turn based RPGs, the game must be made well in both story and combat to keep being interesting. And I dont think they have this in them anymore. I used to be hopeful, but it seems they do not understand how to write compelling stories, and they dont know how to use the massive battle sandbox theyve made for themselves for the story, which is all an average player will see.
Gen 5 had plenty of exploration LMAO there’s a reason it’s considered the peak of Pokemon and the best games
@@raidoukuzonoha883 Im not sure if the intent was to agree or disagree, but Im saying up to and including gen 5 there was plenty of exploration.
I think this is a pretty accurate take; I wish it wasn't, but you're spot on in my opinion.
I loved how magical the game was when I was a kid, I loved finding new places, and stronger or "cooler" Pokémon. Playing up until the second generation feels wrong in my opinion, due to the overall better stats and move systems in generation three and beyond. If only Nintendo gave Game Freak more time, and let them maintain that child-like wonder and interesting gameplay in the series.
I definitely agree with the balancing; when I used my favourites as a kid, I would get demolished. Back then, I was still Ev and Iv training to optimize stats, plus I put a ton of time into refining movesets and team diversity and all that jazz, just to be destroyed by a mega Kangaskhan or mega Blaziken (I loved playing online ORAS doubles for a while, and still do :D). Balancing Pokémon overall helps the player choose their favourites during the story and when playing against others over objectively stronger Pokémon.
The saddest facts in your comment would be the fan games knowing how to make the changes to be better, but being shut down, and the lack of exploration into what makes the games fun, or under-utilization of ideas.
I loved mega Pokémon as a concept, but just hated how they handled it, for example; why didn't Pokémon like Tropius, Lapras, or Ariados get mega evolutions? They had worse stats, abilities or typings, but Garchomp (the funniest one, because it blew buttcheeks), Scizor, Steelix, etc. all got mega forms when they were already pretty good or meta-tier. I loved when they helped out struggling Pokémon, like Ampharos, Beedrill, or Bannette, but those were rare to come by.
The hand holding is just overbearing in the newer releases, and I understand that one of the main demographics of this series is kids who haven't played before, but why isn't there an option for it to be on or off? The series barely modifies anything in how it plays, so I don't see why they can't just add in a little tutorial toggle or something of the sort for people who have been playing for more than one or two generations.
I would go much further into my opinions, but typing on a phone is just too slow for me compared to a pc. Thanks for the great commen! It got me thinking about what makes the older titles splendid and whatnot :D
Bruh
@@raidoukuzonoha883 Platinum was way better than the Gen 5 games. Unova had problems like the forced Unova Dex in BW & weird leveling decisions. Let's not forget that those level related decisions were made worse by the lack of VS Seeker & requirement of waiting around for grind Audinos. Those latter problems weren't fixed in B2W2, & speaking of which the EV inconveniences that were around since Gen 3 were still huge problems in Gen 5.
I remember dreaming about the future of Pokémon, back in the gen 3 days. Such endless potential, only for it to end up stagnating entry after entry.
Gen 4 delivered on that potential, then Gen 5 is where the series messed up some while making a controversial yet beloved mess. Black & White really needed Trainer Customization & more experimentation with the story formula rather than the forcing of new mons onto you of what feel lower quality. Let me ask you, why do we have 8 Gym Badges every time they use Gyms with Trials in Alola being the exception? Unova's sheer number of new species ran the series down the path of Dexit.
For every great idea with Pokemon during the 2010s there was some problem that appeared or stagnation in some way. Whatever happened to the Mystery Dungeon & Ranger games? Why did Mythicals get reduced to gift Pokemon? Why did the Mega Evos get abandoned? Why did Shadow Pokemon never reappear after Gen 3 except in Pokemon Go? Why did needing to ask someone for their version exclusive legendary to get the 3rd Member of the Trio become a thing?
I feel like they did take a risk when going into Gen 5 by locking old Pokemon out to the post game, with a much more story focussed game compared to the more explorable sinnoh that felt like a giant maze at times. Unova was a lot more linear and to make up for that it was much more story driven than any other game before it. It's why the games had such a negative outlook at launch due to how different it was.
Linear, yes. But the region with the best designed cities and routes
@@oneSayan it’s not linear the world has plenty to explore but ok... anyways I love how this video throws Gen 5 into the stale game category when it got hated for being different
@@raidoukuzonoha883 linear when it comes to the development of the region exploring-plot. But almost every route has a secondary path or secrets hidden behind HM use. That's why is so good
@@oneSayan oh ok my bad.. yea I also want to point out that Unova felt like a lived in world that could exist with people living in it and it’s own culture thats how it felt for me tho
locking past pokemon out of the game was as dumb a move now as it was then, it meant many brilliant innovations & great story of gen 5 failed to kick off like they could have
Gen4 brought the physical and special split in attack typing what do you mean?
that is correct and i cannot believe i forgot about that. whoopsie
Gen 5 also added hidden abilities which gave viability to some mons
Honestly, though, I find it kinda sad that it took them all the way until gen4 to add a simple variable to each attack. For Christ's sake, I think NES Dragon Quest titles could make the distinction between physical and magical-based attack decades prior, and yet the Pokemon games on the Game Boy Advance were STILL tying them to type?
I mean gen 4 brought the physical/special split, that was huge, gen 5 tried to innovate a lot but it didn't work (like triple and rotation battles), gen 6 was true stagnation to me, anyone remembers sky battles? Megas were cool but also really cheap hype makers, not balanced and dropped in two years, but they're still capitalizing on them, they just noticed they don't need to make more for that.
I think we needed more Mega’s for underappreciated Pokémon. Make weaker Pokémon more competitively viable. Take sabeleye for instance. No evolutions. Pretty mediocre Pokémon. I think it definitely earned a mega.
@@The_Court_Poet sableye's mega is one of my favorites, 100% agree, I also like when megas bring a unique playstyle instead of "oops, speed boost again"
Admittedly Gen 5 also had another thing going for it apart from the failed innovation to the battle system. The first two games forced you to use Unova pokemon during the main story. While it was widely complained about at the time, a lot, it did give Black and White a fresh feel as you're using all these new pokemon you never seen before rather than sticking to the tried and true older gen pokemon.
Honestly, Megas were unnecessary. Its a matter of balancing the Pokemon, and at the start of each gen they can change that. Pinsir, Aerodactyl, Ampharos, Heracross, and others are often gotten late enough into the game that straight stat buffs or rebalancing could fix their lack of use.
The only ones that fall outside of that are actually Sableye, Mawile and Beedrill. With Sableye, though, its gaining access to Prankster actually gave it a huge buff until Sword and Shield, and while high tier competitive niche isnt something to help it in the main story it is worth noting for the sake of argument. However, with Mawile and Sableye they could be just made bulky, have a real low offensive stat and make them use that, transitioning over to the stronger one over time with utility moves in there.
This really only leaves Beedrill, and other early game bugs. What I suggested for Mawile and Sableye could work with them, but in some cases speed is preferable. So fully evolved levels of speed with a lower offense, starting to transition over around the time Gyrados is usable? Itd be funny having Mach Punch Butterfree or something until 20, Ill give you that.
As far as the generations go, everything up to gen 5 had something fairly major. 1 was the introduction, in 2 special was split into special attack and defense, which was a huge deal. Gen 3 added a ton of utility moves, doubles, natures, overhauled the EV and IV systems, and abilities. Gen 4 had the physical special split, along with being the first with wireless communication, items that defined the metagame until this day and Stealth Rocks, which I suppose we should be grateful NPCs dont use in 6v6 battles against us.
Gen 5 introduced hidden abilities, which are a big deal, and the gems that boost one move by 50%. If Choice Band and Choice Specs were a smidge less powerful the gems would have been kept around for a niche use, and the gems were really easy to find in the overworld making using them not that punishing for an average player to use. Triples were actually a really cool idea, and while impractical and chaotic for competitive against other players, they could have been kept as a way to make whoever your rival/adversary was a challenge at times. I mean in place of the evil teams, as I think since gen 1 its been done really well two times- Black and White being one of them. They dont need to be evil to be a problem for the character, thats just where most games stick the main antagonist.
Gen VI had Inverse Battles too... didn't do _nearly_ enough with them, but it was a good time on Showdown.
I feel like, and maybe this is just my opinion, that generation 5 is where they tried to innovate the most and do the most with it. It has a more in-depth story, a hard mode, slightly older protagonists, a few new mechanics as well as some really nice post-game content. The problem is while they didnt exactly sell "bad" perse, they didnt sell well enough to be acceptable within the eyes of the pokemon company it would seem. I imagine this could cause the team behind it to lose a lot of morale or the company to not want to risk or bother doing something super new or interesting with future games (aside from regional gimmicks) to try to play it safe as well as nostalgia pander to generation one to to try to get their original crowd. And it seemingly worked. Pokemon X&Y sold significantly better than B&W or B&W2 even though it had a lot less content and it kind of gave the series it's re-rise to the top (not that it ever really left). For me personally, I see X&Y, as much as I like those games, as the beginning of pokemon games becoming less and less quality and playing it more and more safe and to be fair, it worked really well, better then when they tried to be super innovative or shake things up so I'd imagine that's why the games are and the pokemon company are they way they are now. The games are made with a low budget (even though they REALLY could spare more) to pump out something decent or half-decent to maximize profits because they keep selling better and better than the last and keep removing or cutting back on content. It's sadly what worked for them financially in terms of both cost-effectiveness and overall sales.
TL;DR; Gen 5 was when they did their most in my opinion and nobody bought it but generation 6 started cutting back and returning to form and everyone bought it.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk and if you've made it this far, thank you for reading my ridiculously long comment. Though do let me know what you think, whether you agree or disagree. I'd love to see everyone's opinions.
I forgot to mention pokemon go made and continues to make boat-loads more money than the main-line games which I imagine is pretty demoralizing as they feel less and less important or needed to the company overall, like they could be tossed aside or just become an afterthought.
@5:00 Gen 4 made one of the most important changes. Before it the type of a move decided if it was special or physical which made Pokemon like Kingler basically unusable/useless because water was special and Kingler physical.
@9:20 I don't get while Pokemon doesn't let you choose your difficulty
@10:00 There will be no Pokemon killer the same way there was no WoW killer, COD killer or similar things. The Series might fizzle out one day, but well there are always children whose first Pokemon game it will be
@14:40 I am mostly disappointed that all the spinoff titles were basically stopped. There were so many different cool worlds and they all just died because they didn't pull in as much money.
@@RickSatan ?
CoD was a Medal of Honor killer. Granted, that series wasn't huge in the same way Pokémon is, but it had a complete monopoly over WW2 FPSes before CoD came along.
@@hostiusasinhostilityhostil7853 I'm pretty sure COD also somewhat killed Gears of War
I'll just say this for people that have been disappointed with pokemon and it's new direction.
If you want a big roster of monsters to add to your party, more challenge, more incentive to team build, gameplay that rewards you for using it's mechanics well, a story that's more than just getting a box legendary and fighting an evil team, and really good turn based combat.
Then go and play a Shin megami tensei game. It doesn't focus on building friendships with the creatures you collect but everything else is there.
Persona 5 Royal, Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne, Persona 3 and 4, Shin Megami Tensei IV and devil survivor are good games to start with, anyways yes I 100% agree with this dude :D
Great recommendation, I absolutely agree
I'm assuming combat stays the same due to the competitive aspect - VGC players would be pretty screwed if the next gen came out and the battle system wasn't even turn based anymore lmao
I mean I dont really want them to go away from turn based combat.
I just want some more complexity.
Just build upon what works instead of removing it entirely
Gen 5 was so good. Saw someone further down saying a gen 5 type game mixed with HG/SS wpuld be perfect and...yeah. That'd be amazing. But what about charizard and pikachu? We cant leave those out anymore, so..probably won't happen. Wonder what form charizard will get in the next games?
Also fat f for pokemon ranger
Every time I see a berry bush in Pokemon it always takes me back to playing Pokemon Platinum as a kid. The almost daily visits to the Berry Master and using the berries to make poffins for my contest Pokemon.
Man, I miss the fun that was multiplayer contests.
Pokémon community: destroys BW and XY for making major changes
GameFreak: ok we’ll only make minor changes
Pokémon community: *surprise pikachu face*
"This is the highest grossing media franchise of all time."
Right. So they should be able to improve it and make it greater than ever. Yet they refuse to.
_Because_ they're already making bank?
Predictable profits + Minimal effort = maximum return-on-investment?
@@Stratelier Correct. Essentially nothing will change until something threatens their profit. Either the quality gets too bad for ppl to keep supporting (unlikely since the base formula for Pokemon still remains addictive and highly accessible), or a new competitor comes into the fray that challenges the market that Pokemon dominates. This is probably more likely but probably wont happen for a while. For now, we'll keep getting low effort Pokemon games.
Gen 5 felt the most refreshing to me.
Gen 4 brought the physical/special split for individual moves instead of types. Arguably one of the largest technical changes to the series as a whole
Edit: saw a comment with a reply from Davo much lower down saying he forgot, I guess that shows how organically the improvement fit into the series. Love the vid.
I think part of the reason it slipped my mind is because it's where I started with the series so I kind of assumed that's always how it was. At least that's my excuse anyway. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down.
Letting the days go by, water flowing underground.
@@davo_ Into the blue again, until the money's gone.
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground.
A bit late to the party, but let me say this: I don't think real-time combat would work well. The wide variety of Pokemon, the variety of moves any given Pokemon can learn, and all the different typings lean much more towards slow-paced strategic gameplay, and I think if they do change the gameplay, any changes should add to that strategy aspect. One of the best aspects of Pokemon - for me, anyways - is building a team out of Pokemon that are both cool and can destroy literally anything. A bit more complexity would be nice.
FF7R mixes turn based and realtime action well. I imagine a pokemon game where you can call on more than 1 pokemon in your team at once to fight a wild encounter would be cool. Say you can directly tell 1 of them what to do while the others attack automatically, and can switch which one you give orders to at any time.
I kinda agree with this, and people say that the mechanics are shit. (I know, it's their opinion.)
But I'm also a Kirby fan and had to deal with many people screaming nothing but toxicity in my face just because Kirby won't change its mechanics.
My thing here is that "Kirby has done this for 25+ years and you really say it gone to shit?"
I can say the same for Pokémon. If they implemented real-time combat, then it would really alienate fans of Pokémon. Even if TPC is aiming for new fans of Pokémon, if real time combat were to come in, then GF has to find how to implement that while also not alienating the veterans of Pokémon. I would personally say they can do what Origami King did: have some battles be the traditional turn-based combat and let other battles be real time.
Back on the mechanics of the game. People has said "don't fix what isn't broken." Pokémon had this system for 25+ years and it works every time. It ain't broken, so they would think "why bother fixing it?" I can say the same for Kirby, even when it feels like Kirby's next main game will be a jump to 3D.
I know Nintendo loves trying to do new things instead of always sticking with the same thing every single game, which is good on them. I'm just saying that if they want to try something new they gotta try to make it not... you know.... bad.
@@raymaikeru I agree almost completely with what you said, but I would say that Pokemon combat as it is has never really been interesting, and could use something new. For instance, the rotation battles introduced in Gen 5 added a lot of strategy to those battles, trying to plan things out and predict what your opponent would do next. It was a really good battle format, and I'm disappointed that they haven't brought it back in Sword/Shield. Something like that, something that made battles more complex, would really add to the game without alienating fans. Or maybe just having trainers be more strategic? Something small can add quite a lot.
I feel like the best course of action would maybe be something like the earlier paper Mario games- still turn-based, however in order to perform attacks you have to do a specific combination of buttons at correct times.
Gen 5 added the greatest damn soundtrack in the entire series
I agree. Route 10, Driftveil City, PWT finals, and Iris's champion theme are songs I'll listen to for the rest of my life.
What sucks is THAT THEY HAVE INNOVATIVED BUT THEN REGRESSED WITH THE POKÉMON COLISEUM GAMES
Well that's because Game Freak didn't make it Genius Sonority did. Battle Revolution still looks beautiful even now.
@@vasylpark2149 you do know I’m not talking about battle revolution tho that is a good game I’m talking about colosseum on the GameCube
@@thatoneguy9983 are you implying the Orre games weren't innovative?
@@Lucaccino17 the orre games were the last time TPC tried with the exception of gen 5
@@Lucaccino17 no I’m saying that’s the last time they actually did something unique
I've been playing Temtem recently. I have put more in depth thought and engagement into a dojo rematch in Temtem than I did in the entirety of Pokemon Shield. I dont think I can go back. I am excited to see what the game will become.
Same, I'm very happy with that game right now. I still can't recommend it right now during EA though because of the lack of content.
"pokemon real-time combat"
Ok, Pokemon, but with Mario & Luigi SuperStar Saga real-time dodging mechanics. I'd want to see that.
There is kinda a fan game like that called "Pokemon Reloaded" pretty cool, you should check it out
@prickly pear Pokemon reloaded does that
@@RickSatan stfu troll
That's the best that came out of real time mechanics imo.
It seems Gen 4 was when the battle mechanics was fully established. Strange to think that it took 10 years to find what it wanted to do.
And it is still in doubt on which Extra Gimmick they will use, I Mean, Remenber when they made Really a Lot of Hype around Mega Evolution just so it was discontinnued in the next Gen? Or how Z-Moves are so Important in Gen 7 and then they are replaced with Dynamax? And in Gen 9 they will Completely scrap Dynamax and put some new Gimmick l
They should have just sticked with Mega Evolutions
Gen 5 was the true peak of pokemon, almost everything about it was a risk and it failed. But now people want them to do it again. Lol
Gen 5 had the best balance of peace
I keep seeing everyone saying Gen 5 was their favorite. Where the hell were you people when seemingly everyone hated on Unova?! Cuz clearly that gave GameFreak the wrong impression
@@ferociousspark4166 Honestly i think the People who hated on Unova on the time seeing what the games had become they just thought "Hey, BW isnt really that bad..."
When listing new mechanics, you glossed over abilities (Gen 3) and the physical/special split (Gen 4). Arguably the two most important gameplay changes in the entire franchises (perhaps together with the special stat split and breeding).
Imo there is no need to change the combat system because its already pretty good and changing it would only annoy a lot of fans but it definitley needs a world update the way you progress in the game or the way you interact with wild pokemon. It has a lot of potential regarding progression.
The battle system really doesn't give you any options to engage with. You use whichever attack is the most powerful, an AI could do it. There's no strategy for close-range vs. long range, there's no counter system, you just spam Flamethrower until the enemy dies. Or you use status moves to make yourself OP before you spam Flamethrower until it dies.
The turn based combat isn’t a problem in Pokémon honestly. It’s just that in game, it’s very poorly utilized in most entries. It’s a very good system, and it gets squandered by elite 4 teams that don’t even have 6 party members, nevermind held items. I think also having more doubles may be helpful - temtem seems to have gotten that flaw right.
Digimon Cyber sleuth was more fun than the Switch Pokemon games.
True
Fossil fighters is way better too lmao
Yeah
I mean there is competition, Yokai Watch is probably the biggest example. It's similar to Pokémon in a lot of ways, but it still has its own identity and distinct gameplay, and I would recommend the first game to anyone who wants to have the kind of fun they used to.
And if you hate spending money then (don't tell anyone I told you this) you can emulate it, 100% worth the prison sentence.
Dude the 6 years I spent in jail for playing Mario 64 on the Nintendo PC were sooooo worth it!
@@xenotiic8356 "What are you in for?" "I killed a man, what about you?" "Mother 3."
Digimon is still doing games. I've heard great things about Digimon World: Next Order and Dingimon Cyber Slueth.
it irks me how people say YokaiWatch and Digimon are just pokemon clones. they dont even bother to look up the very clear differences of each franchise just because pokemon is the biggest and most popular.
At least Sun and Moon tried to be a bit different, with the trials instead of gyms.
Having been in this game since 96 I can honestly say gen 2 was my favorite. Gen 3 was my most played, and gen 4 was the "best." Gen 1 was the cornerstone, but it was filled with glaring flaws in the mechanics. Gen 2 was more refined, but also adventurous in expanding the game and the story. Gen 3 was where they really started to nail down the presentation, the gameplay, and the mechanics to make the game fun yet challenging. But gen 4 was truly the pinnacle of it all. The only real flaw I remember from gen 4 was the slow pace due to the hardware, but that's small time. The underground, the poke park, the split continent, the post game island, the legendaries EVERYWHERE, CYNTHIA ffs. It really was the last time I was truly hooked on a pokemon game. I enjoyed the others, but the game is actually made for toddlers now. You spend the first 7 hours of Ultra Moon being guided along like an actual child. The game feels more like a spinoff than a main series game.
TL;DR sinnoh>hoenn>johto>kanto>the others
The hand-holding was really taken to the extreme in Sun and Moon. An absolute nightmare. Glad I have further vindication on Gen IV being the superior gen.
Well gen 5 wasn't for toddlers, they tried to make that game for the older fans (yes they said that) and it didn't do well (sadly, I really liked that gen).
imo gen 5 is the best. the best story, best difficulty, best music, and best tournament(aka the pwt). but hey, thats just your opinion. i just cant enjoy dpp that much because it just feels sluggish and the only challenging part is cynthia and her damned garchomp. the best experience for dpp imo is renegade platinum, an amazing rom hack that makes every gym and trainer have competitive team, the final cyrus fight even have you in a double battle fighting both palkia and dialga. and the sloggishness is partially fixed and there’s even an EV training place.
The older games weren’t perfect but there was a lot of potential to grow
As long as they keep making mystery dungeon, I'm happy.
"all it takes is for game freak to take a risk" This is a good conclusion but also the problem. Pokemon is more than the games. you pointed that out. the games aren't even the most profitable part of Pokemon. but ... every generation, every 4 year period, every new anime of pokemon, every new card ... all of that ... starts with the release of the mainline's game. if they take a risk and it goes poorly, a whole generation could fail. so maybe gamefreak wants to innovate. but the pokemon company would never allow it. too much is at stake for them. So it's not only that they don't have to, but also that they can't because of company stuffs
Idk I feel like the newer ones are definitely worse. Much worse. There’s a lot missing from these new games. But the only new interesting thing is the wild area and it doesn’t take long to see that doesn’t have much to offer either.
Remember in gen 3 when the whole was raining or sunny and you had to go out, find, and stop the legendary yourself? Instead of the screen just going black and someone explains it was epic?
Remember secondary legendaries you had to hunt down or do a puzzle to get to? Or go through a secret dungeon?
Heck, remember dungeons?
Remember secret or underground bases?
Remember side Pokémon competitions, like the beauty contests or pokeathonlon?
Remember when they put all the Pokémon in the games?
Dunno why the dude threw Gen 5 footage into why the series is stale when Gen V by fucking far introduced a hella of a lot
@@raidoukuzonoha883 I think he meant mechanic-wise. And he’s right. Pretty sure the only new mechanic was the seasons mimicking real life. And some graphical changes. Other than that, I can’t remember anything new when it it comes to mechanics only
@@raerohan4241 it introduced triple battles
@@raidoukuzonoha883 Oh yeah. I hated that mechanic so much that I guess I repressed it from memory 😂 I don’t know if I would call that a mechanic that changed the gameplay of the whole series from then on. But maybe I’m just biased lol
@@raerohan4241 I agree with disliking triple battles myself, but generation five was a big quality of life update to the franchise; oval and shiny charms reduced the grinding for shinies for a fair trade off of catching the regional or national dex respectively.
They also added hidden abilities so you could have choices as to what you wanted for your abilities.
Flying to routes was added here too, this one was huge for impatient ten year old me.
I could list a few more, but I think you get the jist.
Hope this helps :D
If there is one thing watching the competitive scene and FSG have taught me is that the current battle mechanics are plenty complex and don't really need to change. What needs to change is game freaks approach to using the system in-game: give the AI held items and move sets that make sense, don't give the AI more than one of the same Pokémon, give them a team that takes type matchups into account; give the player a variety of held items both offensive in nature (choice items, gems and type boosters) and defensive (red card, assault vest, type berries), slowly start giving them from the start of the game.
The problem isn't the system, it's game freaks refusal to use it to it's fullest potential.
It is true: most NPC teams just get phoned in with their default level-up movesets and a default AI that doesn't do much beyond picking a super-effective move type to use against you.
Pokémon did try to deviate once but fans slammed it cuz “ice cream mon bad”
While I agree that Pokemon community is too afraid of change I see no correlation between "innovation" and "pokemon design". The games aren't going downhill because they aren't allowed enough creative freedom with the designs...
@@pascalsimioli6777 you misunderstand me, I’m saying in gen 5 we saw things begin to change, but people completely disregarded it because of some of the designs
the designs of some mons might of put off some, but the removal of old mons in the initial release was far more offputting and had a lot more to do with why gen 5 was unpopular, and it put the spotlight heavily on the replacements, gen 5 had a lot of good changes, but removing things is and was a bad change that scuppered people seeing the good changes, without that gen 5 would have done Much better.
@@jadonteino3438 The designs did take a hit tbh. Also, it's kind of where the very linear progression started to seep into the structures of games. IT did some things right, but I think it missed some of the charm gens 1-4 had. Also, the first games that took a nosedive in post-game content. Though B2W2 fixed that problem.
Even the game developers implicitly acknowledge the lack of good quality Pokémon designs from Gen 5 onwards. That's why Megas and Regional Variants are near-exclusive to the first 4 Gens of Pokémon; they've ran out of good quality designs in newer Gens, so now they're redesigning the older Pokémon with new forms.
Pokémon Coliseum deserves some credit, along with Gale of Darkness.
The persona series (Specifically 4 and 5 for me, but im sure the others are good too) are what I've turned to over the newer pokemon games. They beat the new pokemon games in every way. Better battles (to a degree), better music, better cutscenes, voice acting, better visuals, muuuuch better story. God, the persona series is just so good. Trust me, if you want something like pokemon with a better story, check out the persona series.
There is also the Shin Megami Tensei series, which is what persona is based on. I've yet to check those out tho, but i've heard good things there.
Yes! Highly recommend both those series, they’re so good
Persona and SMT scratches that Pokémon itch while surpassing it on so many levels
Remember when they tried to change core things(Gen5 with no old pokémon until postgame and Gen7 with no gyms and story-heavy narrative) and people complained so much that they went back to the old ways?(B2W2 and Let'sGO) Why would then risk changing anything when most of the playerbase plays their game to scratch the nostalgia itch, finish the main story and never play again?
But the No Old Pokemon Until Postgame was a bad thing. Why i cant have the freedom to choose what i wanted to use?
@@ulimace1468 Because story-wise it does not make sense to include every single Pokemon. Gen 5 was big on its region, characters and story. It also gives you the change to work with what you have and discover new pokemons.
No matter how we feel about it, we have to admit it was ballsy. AND it wasn't just cutting out PART of the dex but EVERYTHING except the new 'mons. Whatever Game Freak took to do that choice and produce that Gen, I want them to take it again-
@@ondiiina but having freedom to choose the pokemon i like is better than being capped to only some pokemon that i dont even know if they are good
@@ulimace1468 not to mention, the game itself suffered from those limitations as well. It basically led to the trend of gym leaders having three pokemon and elite four having four. Besides, it's not like no other pokemon could fit into unova. Garchomp for instance.
gen 7 initial release had some nice boss fights in theory to replace the gyms but the mechanic kind of failed due to how easy a lot of them ended up being, & the story railroaded you at times on top of that in a game that flourishes in exploration, it was a nice idea but the execution was poor, & they removed national dex in gen 7 on top of that
& removing stuff isn't a positive, gen 5 had great story & innovative animations & new ways to battle, the removal of mons just put off many fans from seeing all of that because it was a negative.
improvements are good, loss of features and regression of difficulty are worse than stagnation, the games need change but they need changes that are actually positive.
Let's Go isn't really the next entry in the series after gen 7 though, it's more of a nostalgia bait Go tie in released early while gen 7 was wrapping up & S&S was finishing development, still managed to have follow pokemon in it though over other games, not that that's even a new thing unless you only consider the 3D games.
Gen 8 took the wild mon boss fights from 7 & developed them into Gym based Dynamax battles at least, those game's flaws are in a whole lot of other areas.
my problem with the series as a whole is that I feel that too much gets taken out with each generation, dexit aside there wasn't much of a reason to remove;
- mega evolutions (breathed some new light into some neglected pokemon)
- z moves (as much as i skipped gen7 as a whole some of them are neat don't @ me)
- the underground
- rotation battles
- that one battle mode where the weaknesses were flipped around
- the prospect of going to another region in the postgame (for free, what if you could go back to Alola at the end of Sw/Sh? it would've been a lovely touch to be able to fight the stock versions of the gen7 protags, kinda like how you did in Kanto in HG/SS.)
- cutscenes a'la gen5 (even the animated intro, you idiots have the money for fucks sake!)
- THE LOW HEALTH MUSIC (FUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I HATED IT BUT IT ADDED A SENSE OF URGENCY)
but hey, anything to make it out in time for the holidays am i right?
and back in the DS days I kinda get it because cartridge space can be a problem, but the highest capacity game card size for the 3DS capped out at 8GB.
switch cartridges can be as large as 64GB (as of 2019), and my gut tells me they can easily get that up to 128GB if they tried. (But, you know, it would probably be physical only at that point.)
the only reasoning is greed, and for that I think the IP should be handed off to a new studio, as I think the series *needs* some new blood at the helm in order to thrive more.
They pretty much just remove features from each game because they don't want to make something so big that they'll constantly be expected to out do themselves.
I think the Dynamax Adventure is a fun new feature added in the second part of the DLC, and I’m someone who’s favourite game is Diamond. Sword and Shield are very good games, and they are better than the bad Let’s Go Games.
How can you change the core gameplay without disrupting the identity of the series. Isn't that why they have spin-off games, so you can play in other styles in the same world?
Well-made video but this topic is honestly so overdone at this point
The identity of the series is the Pokémon and the world, the battle system, well popular, isn't that fun outside of competitive, and it feels outdated and unrefined. It's better to fix something's that broke, rather than simply put new stickers on it because you've learned to work around it's malfunctions.
Take the approach Square Enix did with FFVII remake and make an action battle rpg system that can easily switch to a turn based if you want. Unfortunately there’s just no passion by the people leading the main line games
@@speedslider3913 The battle system isn't outdated. Never have I seen a more refine turn base battle system than what Pokemon has. The problem is the design of these games. From Black and White onwards, they have had one route for the whole game that each player is stuck with. I remember a few years back, I played Red and Blue and chose to use both under level pokemon for the gyms, and surrounding pokemon in the area. And what I mean by under level is the 10 to 20 levels under the lowest gym leader pokemon, with a few exception like the first gym. I only broke that rule once for Sanrina. Pokemon is the only game that I know that can have that level of play to it. Turn based isn't the problem, the people making it is
Zero1 ZeroLast Refined in competitive. Most of campaign is just Singles and "hit hard", none of the strategies or playstyles like weather setting or doing double battles is used, or is used once and forgotten.
@@aldrinlimos5159 I know. How many people know solar beam can be used in a single turn in sunny days is in play. How many even know Groudon could learn it?
Letting the games go by, let mechanics stay the same
Letting the games go by , yearly releases will remain
Into the new consoles, until the spark is gone
Once in a generation, yearly releases will remain
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Gamefreak could literally sell shit on a plate and people would buy it as long as it had pikachu
I think Pokemon doesn't change because it got a lot right first time. I don't think the turn-based combat is outdated. It's a brick house. When you start trying to innovate where you don't need to, fixing what isn't broke, you get the Sonic series. Granted, the story could use some shaking up, but the authored narratives aren't why people play Pokemon.
Have you played Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth? If you want something like Pokemon that shakes things up, that might be worth your time.
They certainly did get a lot right the first time, and I think that's somethign that's quite understated. People shit on gen 1 a lot nowadays and, granted, it's difficult for modern fans to get into, but crucial things like the damage formula, the stats formula and the exp. formula have barely changed, if at all, from those games. The way that battles in the early game take comparitively longer, but get you further to the next level than battles in the late game is very important for enjoying the game, but is often overlooked.
GameFreak should take inspiration from Atlus and SMT
I bought pokemon white the other day and after fighting the second gym just a few hours ago I got WRECKED ! I then managed after a bit of training and tactics I managed to beat it but wow, I was not ready for that after playing only Sword
Ahahahahahahaha
Get ready for the 4th Gym. That was the bane of 10 year old me, and even when I replayed gen 5 on emulator for the first time I struggled a little on it even though I knew what was coming
I started with gen 6 as my first game and have since bought many of the older games. The older games all were more challenging and I loved them for it
Yeah, Gen 5 was surprising tricky since the games locked you into using Unova Pokemon. And that also meant your opponents were also locked into it as well. Clever way to put up some difficulty if you have no idea what all of the gym leaders pokemon are capable of. Unless of course you're a dirty cheat who looks up what they do.
that dang watchog and retaliate herdier
Gen 4 didn't bring in the Dowsing Machine, its just an evolution of the Itemfinder. It *did* however introduce the physical-special split, which completely reworked how types and attacks worked. And gen 3 also introduced Abilities, which added more strategy to which pokemon you could use, and Natures, which... could've been worked in better, but still
Also the underground in DPPt is kind of an evolution or extension of the Secret Bases from RSE, but a lot more useful and fun.
The last Pokémon I liked was black
And white 1-2 before all the “3D” ones came out
It's called the Unova region because years later a lot of the fanbase did a U turn and now appreciate the games.
Personally I really don't think 6&7 are that bad. XY are a very basic experience but they're executed well, and the transition to 3D was fairly smooth. Alola has really good atmosphere in a way SwSh could only dream of.
@@PlatinumAltaria oras and sun and moon are ok but man xy and ultra sun and moon were big disapointments for me in a way that i cant call then good games or recomend them to anyone
gen 5 is still the best and the way things are going will allways be
gen5 was defo the last good game.
I think turn-based combat can still be great nowadays. Take Dragon Quest XI, for example
Starter pokémon are a series staple. That said, making it so that it's possible to get all 3 without having to trade eggs would be very good. 12:35
I'm going to argue that the games *have* gotten worse over time. Since gen 5, after the credits roll, the game just seems to grind to a halt, with very little post-game. This coincides with the shift of focus to a lot of online gameplay features. I think that this is by design, as Nintendo doesn't make any money from you continuing to play an older game, so the design shifted to something that they can pull the plug on after a few years to make people switch to the newer games.
Wdym "no post game"? I haven't even beaten the game and I know things like:
-Poke Star Studio content
- Legendaries from other regions can now be found
- The PWT
and more.
@@rcmastergamer1800
You can't really spend very much time on the studios, there really isn't much to do there. Compare them to contests from the previous generations, which introduce a completely different method of gameplay with its own unique set of rules. Or the pokeathlon, which is practically a completely different game packaged inside HGSS.
You can get more legendaries in the later gens, I suppose, but more in that regard isn't necessarily better. In that regard I would actually say that legendaries lost their charm past gen 2. In gens 1 and 2, most legendaries had a complete dungeon around them, and the three wanderers were actually a challenge to get because the game doesn't just hand out master balls like they do in later gens.
I had completely forgotten about the world tournament. Wasn't that basically the same as the battle subway, except it cameos characters from the older games?
I can think of another feature from B2/W2. Remember Join Avenue? That was another somewhat interesting place from gen 5. Unfortunately, it also got severely stripped down when Nintendo dropped Wi-Fi support for the DS.
I'm 90% sure the difference between PWT and the subway are that the subway doesn't have rules to scale out battles. Its basically the Star Tournament in CT, meanwhile PWT has rules to balance out level differences. Either way, compare that to XY and SWSH where (Swsh's base game at least) there's little to no bonus content. Sure, you get Battle Tower and a bit more story, but nothing to keep you playing.
@@Ahlnie Legends can still be challenging. The Regi Trio (Regigigas, maybe) in particular feel great to capture due to the difficult puzzles (unless you cheat) to find them. It can work, they just don't put in any effort.
Honestly, I really dont care for the Post-game if the Main Game is Good, Hgss, A Game Praised by its Post-Game, I only Played until i beat Red and that was it, And until recent generations the Main Game was Enough to entertain me, But on recent Generations the Main Game is getting boring
I just wish they put more work into the Main Game instead of just not putting work at all
Reading the title of this video, I couldn't help to remember the Talking Heads song "Once in a Lifetime", where the writer finds himself in a loop of routine, questioning himself daily. I find it funny how similar that is to the Pokemon series, we have youtubers like you realizing that it IS "Same as it ever was" (which is also a lyric to that Talking Heads song) and that when it actually brings something new, it feels like it's too little, too late. Hence a "Once in a Lifetime" change.
same lol, good song
Literally never even realized wooper was an axolotl until now
Bruh
@@ACowIsHuge mudkip is an axolotl too. also found that one out a couple days ago
bc who tf thinks about axolotls ever they’re such a non-animal who even knows they exist. i’m right
I do think another issue competitors have is that they get major backlash for being one in the first place, Unlike FPS or 3rd Person Action games, Pokemon has a monopoly on the entirety of monster catching, anything else gets called a cheap knock-off and gets low reviews and sales.
Personally i think the exp share for everyone could work if they reworked the amount of exp given and then make the games themselves way harder with some nutty teams for the trainers. I'm playing Pokemon Gold over right now and i find that I'm struggling a bit because of the fact that the trainers would always have some fun teams like some random firebreather with 2 magmar after the 3rd gym. The progression is the problem in the new games tbh
I think they should look at the older titles of XD and Colosseum. They changed up the formula in a way that made it feel different, but still felt familiar. The darkness mechanic, all battles were double battles, starting with Umbreon and Espeon. I think if they took ideas and inspiration from that, and included a bit more sandbox and free roam, and wild pokemon mechanics, it could be an amazing game.
And Wes was a total badass blowing up a hideout after stealing a snag machine
Hey, I'm here to defend two pokemon games, that story wise, was different, and was a nice change of pace, Pokemon Coliseum 1 and 2, sure they both where focused on team battle, but it went away from the "Battle 8 gym leaders to become the best" You went on a proper adventure on that one, and the shadow pokemon where cool, Too bad it wasn't a main line game.
Edit:Also to expand, it seems the side games, had more effort into stories, and fun, but are not realvant to his video essay here.
Davo, glad you put all your thoughts and kinda kept objective on your criticism. It was an appreciated and most of shared point of view 👍🏼
If you want to know how stale Pokemon has been throughout the years, the first four FIve Nights at Freddy's had more variety in eachother. When I play the original Five Nights at Freddy's, I don't get the same experience has in the second one, the third one or the fourth one.
My favorite was gen 5, it may not have much new that i remember, but it's certainly a memorable and living game, i felt like the adventure matters and the gym leaders are indeed a part of the world
Nintendo: *creating consoles based on gameplay innovation rather than raw power.*
Pokémon: *reskin of last gen*
I think one of the things holding the series back is the competitive scene
Another reason why old Pokemon EXP shares were better: if you were just good at the game, you didn't need to grind. RPGs are ultimately strategy games, and Pokemon is no exception. You can beat a lot of trainers while underleveled if you know how to build a good team. If anything, the newer games should be teaching and encouraging more strategic play, not giving players an effortless pass.
I would like to point out that I have played pokemon Y with the EXP share on, and am currently playing Pokemon white with the share off, and pokemon white is infinitely more fun. While I do think the majority of the pokemon designs get better somewhat with each new generation, and the fancy 3D models and animations, I love playing Pokemon white because it's a challenge.
if you'll excuse me I'd like to talk about my gym battle with clay.
Clay is a ground type gym leader so I used leavanny. Leavanny cleaved through all the other trainers in the gym so I thought this would be a breeze. However, as leavanny ate Clay's krokorok alive, he'd send out Excadrill next, who would always beat the crap out of my team. Bulldoze. I hate bulldoze. After three or four grueling losses, I tried a new strategy. Send out Pignite, since Krokorok is frail, use Work Up, next turn hopefully OHKO with flame charge to boost speed, and then flame charge the excadrill for super effective damage, bring back leavanny for whoever came out next. However, Clay's Krokorok had swagger and torment. I hate swagger, because in pokemon white I have absolutely shit luck with confusion. Not this time though! Pignite got a so I got a +2 boost from swagger along with the work up boost and beat Krokorok with flame charge, boosting my speed. But Pignite was under the effect of Torment, so I couldn't use flame charge again. Luckily I had arm thrust as well. I also got lucky because Clay sent out Palpitoad instead of Excadrill, so I could arm thrust to OHKO the Palpitoad, and when that mole with a shit eating grin came I killed it with a +3 flame charge.
I never had such a triumphant experience in a video game, and if I had the EXP share I never would have experienced that.
@@marvingreenscreen9947 in pokemon white the exp share is an item that you give to a pokemon and only that pokemon gets shared xp
Very nicely done davo. Basically hit the nail on the head. The magic of the franchise really has been gone for a long time, and its sad that pokemon go was probably the only innovative game that has come out of the property in years.
I don’t like Pokémon I’m just here to watch davo_
my boiks dedicated to the cause 👊😎
@@davo_ always will be
With new mechanics not sticking each generation anymore, Game Freak should try making a game that stands apart from the rest. Something keeping with the atmosphere of Pokémon, while breaking from the formula.
But they won't. Not until something forces them to try harder.
Honestly, I've rather want a new region that is completely unexplored, no towns or routes, besides maybe something like a base camp and become the first champion of that region. Then maybe a post story where we lost our champion status, go back to the camp, maybe now a bustling city. and start the journey back to champion all over again.
I think that's pretty close to my ideal Pokemon game - a would love a new region with one town and a huge "wild area" where your actions and which parts you explore will influence how the town grows. (i.e. which types of Pokemon the gyms use, etc) Would love to see a more Sandbox-y style game.
Alola really shook up the formula for once getting rid of gyms but then what happened? The fan base then started saying how bad they wanted usum to add gyms to the region. It genuinely feels like pokemon fans dont even know what they want sometimes. Personally my issue isnt the formula of challenge the league while fighting some baddies and catching a legendary along the way, it's just that pokemon has so much interesting and deep lore that could be explored to tell some really fun and cool stories but then they just... dont... Actually that's probably why gen 5 is my favorite generation cuz they actually tried to tell an interesting story, and even made an actual proper sequel for the first time ever unless you count gsc as kanto sequels. As far as gameplay goes I wanna see the games implement optional trainers to fight dispersed through the routes amd towns who use more competetive and well thought out strategic builds where kids and casuals can choose to pass up on it, while the rest of us veterans can enjoy taking on these bonus challenges throughout our main playthrough, rather than having all the actually interesting or challenging battles crammed into a single post game area where it instead becomes tedious and grindy since it's just non stop battling with no breaks.
Pokémon should not have gone 3d. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
I mean, 3d would have been good if they actually gave a fuck about the animations and executed it well. But, I do agree that 2d looks better thus far. (Right now, anyway.)
Pokemon companies big error:
They think: Pokemon Go success means people want an easy game.
Reality: It was a nostalgia based success, mostly adults played it.
WHAT THEY NEED TO DO; Create a proper game that engages adults and children and watch the money roll in
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the veterans of Pokemon, the guys that are invested into the franchise for years, is not the company's target audience, or in other words, we outgrew the game. And we shouldn't expect the company to change the game for us. That isn't to say that we shouldn't complain about it, but that we should be seeking to find alternatives to support instead.
To quote someone else, "We are becoming just like our parents, telling the younger generation how great things were in the past and how they don't make them like they used to."
I agree with everything except the combat system. Turn based combat in Pokemon can be incredibly fun, the problem is the lack of difficulty in the base game (low levels and bad AI). I think that the turn based system is integral to Pokemon and as a competitive player would be sad to see it go.
I don't get why people think turn based is inherintly bad. The moment a mainline pokemon game goes action RPG is the moment the series dies for me.
I don't get it either. I may not have touched a pokemon game since gen5, but with deep enough mechanics, turn-based combat is great. See: Temtem.
Because they don't play turn based RPGs
Then they'll be complaining about Zelda as well for being action adventure all the time. I'm always open for changes but a complete change of genre isn't always a good idea unless if we're talking about spin offs but that's a different story.
I feel like drastically changing the combat isn't the answer, it's part of what makes Pokemon Pokemon. It's challenge that makes the combat feel rewarding, and with a new world and story that changes things drastically, or new ways to interact with things, that would make for a unique Pokemon experience.
I feel like a change to how the game is structured rather than the battle system is in order. Have gym leaders be less exploitable with more type variety and a focus on specific strategies. For example, in Pokemon XD, Lovrina is a boss trainer who would employ use of status effects that slowly wittle down your pokemon's health and prevents escape. Things like toxic and wrap. Make gym leaders employ strategies like that and you have some interesting fights.
@@Kylesico912x That would be a lot better. Start with a leader that focuses on one type to ensure the player has that concept down, and then teach them about other concepts from there. Gen V did the first gym concept the best, but the rest of its gyms were still just types and no deeper strategies. Gen VIII has a Sandstorm based fight...but that's it.
I’ve been playing Pokémon since gen 1, blue was my first game. The series definitely has evolved with every generation, but tweaks to the core formula have been mostly iterative and I think that’s totally reasonable.
If they drastically change what the game is like an “open world sandbox with real-time combat” it isn’t really a Pokémon game anymore. It’s just a game in the Pokémon IP in a similar vein as Pokémon mystery dungeon, Pokémon colosseum, or even Pokémon snap.
The Pokémon franchise as a whole certainly has innovation when you look at all of the games, and there’s a lot of different experiences to be had within the IP. Ultimately, I don’t think the fact that sword and shield is the next iteration of the mainline series doesn’t mean there won’t be spin offs like you mentioned as I think a more open world game would provide a vastly different experience to the mainline formula.
I guess what I’m getting at is why not both?
Weather was added in gen 2, not gen 3. Hail was added in gen 3, and overworld weather now affected in battle weather effects, like the sandstorm in the Route 111 desert. The amount of new pokemon and abilities focused on weather can easily mislead you into thinking weather was added in gen 3.
"Gen 4 didn't bring that much"
Bruh, the physical and special split. The entire current gameplay originated in gen 4.
EDIT: ok, I see everybody has pointed this out. Sorry.
I feel like Pokemon fangames have become more innovative and creative than the main games. Take Crystal Clear; Sure, it might still have the "Defeat Gym Leaders, E4 & Champion" formula, but it's ACTUALLY an open world game; u can choose which town u start in, what Pokemon you get as a Starter, where you go to catch new Mons and fight Gyms, etc. And there's a whole lot of extra content if that's more your style.