@@noobslayer1196bro pretty much plays fighting games for a living. It’d be a goddamn embarrassment if he didn’t have good fundamentals. Also the dude crumbles under pressure so hard. He’ll bitch about his opponent mashing while mashing into plus frames.
Something I’ll always love about fighting games is that they all are games built around problem solving. Once you get past the point of execution and beginner knowledge, it becomes a test of how quickly you can assess and react to a situation. While it isn’t perfect at my level, it is always really cool to see pros continuously adapt and improve throughout a long match. You get to see them in real time pick up on each other’s habits and find solutions to their opponents solutions. It’s so much fun to watch these slight adjustments force the other players to rethink their approach, and come up with their own unique answer. It’s the whole reason I watch and started to play fighting games
I appreciate this. T8 is my first that I’ve invested some time into and I feel like a lot of people can easily fall into helplessness due to the overall aggression when I’ve always felt like there are answers but you gotta take risk to find them
For sure dude. If people could figure out all the answers to every problem in fgs in the first few months then fgs would be very boring, lol. Some of that modern social media/skinner box brainrot at work, people want shit to be figured out up front.
Honestly Phi, people just like to make excuses for their subpar performance. Tekken is an extremely challenging game and you don’t become amazing at it in only 4 months. Yes it can be frustrating, but what game can’t??? Because Tekken forces you to own up to your own mistakes it is infinitely easier to just blame the game. I’m not saying there aren’t any bugs or things that need to be improved, just that a lot of the stuff our brothers and sisters complain about is just…a skill issue.
Case in point, most of Phi’s twitch chat was barely paying attention to his lesson and were too busy bickering about how strong or weak DVJ is 🤦🏻 smh lol People get so hung up on character strength like there’s a huge gulf between characters and it’s just not true. I think we’ve seen plenty of character variety in T8 tourneys already. Especially compared to the end of T7 where it was Kuni, Feng, Akuma, and Geese in most top 8s. People don’t want to admit that the balance is pretty good because then it’s all on them and their lack of skill and work in preparation.
Agreed! I find myself doing it sometimes and I have to remind myself that I'm just raging and the real problem is my performance or knowledge of the matchup. that's the only way to keep learning and improve otherwise you stay tilted the whole time you're playing and end up hating yourself and the game.
Agreed 100%! In four months I've made it to Tenryu (first Tekken I've done ranked for) and I feel like my movement skills are JUST now beginning. I still have so much to learn and improve on and I've played something like 2000 matches now. Sounds like a lot but it really is not.
the game is extremely hard for a beginner and most mechanics do seem impossible to implement into live gameplaty. that being said, if you stick with it and earnestly try to improve things do get easier. 200 hours in, i can now react to most snake edges, can low parry/duck strings and if I have a read, I'm quite consistently stepping and punishing most while running moves. i never would've thought it possible 10-100 hours in. i thought breaking throws was impossible too but now I can at least react to a throw animation and mash a guessed throw break. I think with more time i'll eventually recognise which arm. anyway, all this seemed impossible a couple months ago but gradually unlocking these skills has been extremely satisfying.
Genuinely. There was a time in Tekken 7 where i painstakingly practiced throw breaks vs Drag and now I don't even think about it when i break throws. Practice really does make perfect.
I think you could build on this Phi! I love the idea of a sort of Tekken Mythbusters where you take some of the most popular Twitter takes and disprove them through match examples. I think our community needs this pushback to encourage learning the game more and spend less time mindlessly complaining about every character in the game lol
this video doesnt change how stepping linear moves and getting clipped... "improved movement" stepping got buffed and so did tracking.. which means stepping didnt get buffed.
I believe what a lot of people complain about boils down to this: offense is being rewarded too much while legacy knowledge isn't overwhelmingly in their favor. And i can't help but agree with that take. I'm new to fighting games, yet made it to tekken king in 2 months. I just shouldn't be able to get there that quickly. I was grinding my ass off but regardless that shouldn't be possible in any case so i see myself as part of the problem. I know a lot of people will say rank is meaningless but for non competitors it still is a slap in the face in some way
Why shouldn’t it be that way? This is a new game going in a new direction. Either you adapt or get left behind. I don’t think there is anything wrong with the direction it has taken. Will people complain? Sure. But in previous Tekken games many new comers were complaining that legacy knowledge made coming into the game extremely unfun and daunting. Can’t please everyone.
@@merikijiya13 like i said, i am new so i can't really talk about anything other than my own perspective which is: this game is the most fun i have ever had, while also being the hardest game i ever got into.
@@KripticHCS I’ve been playing since T3 and I’m loving it. A lot of people are complaining about the difficulty of transitioning to the new play style because legacy knowledge is less valuable. But even the professional who complained about it admitted then just need time to adapt.
@@merikijiya13 yeah, i back your perspective. Sometimes it sucks to adapt to a new playstyle in a franchise you main but it isn't always for the worse. Had similar issues with my old main franchise but all you can do is adapt or be left behind
Also Tekken King in 2 months!? That’s impressive. You might be like a legit prodigy cuz that is most certainly not normal. Who knows maybe you’ll be in some Tekken tournaments in the future.
People just love finding excuses for why they lose. "This game is random" "Scrub mechanics". "I play such a hard character and he's using a noob one" etc etc
Are you saying all the most recent fighting games don't just happen to be random? To be casino? Party games? There's a reason legacy skill is rewarded and the outcomes aren't dice rolls? Wait... That would mean I might have something to do with my outcomes........... Unacceptable!
I mean the Sajam Slam you all showed a great amount of movement being important to win the fights. It was such an epic tourny and respect to all of you for you efforts :)
I LOVED this type of video. It scratches the exact same ick for Tekken that makes me nerd out about Tekken and keeps me wanting to learn about -and reach- higher levels of play. Movement, countering the counterplay of the counterplay, all the good stuff. Please, please more of those Phi!
“Complainers just need to get good” Or maybe people just have valid criticisms of the balance and reasons given for balancing, oh and a lot are from veteran Tekken fans? This games systems aren’t really all that complicated
I love this video. Creating a gameplan in a match is something I struggle with and one of the biggest hurdles personally to progress. You talking about what you notice and your thought process to adapt are examples I needed to hear to help my own thought process. Thank you.
I think Devil Jin lacks ways to diversify approach. He's pretty good, but after you get used to his best options, the other options are a bit too slow/telegraphed.
It's just some small moments, but I've had round start sidesteps work and then my opponent would adjust by stepping with me to catch me off-guard. I've even had a player completely neutralize my gameplan with sidesteps once.
The game does have a big inconsistency problem though. And the aggressive noob friendly nature of the game doesn’t help some of these negatives the game has.
Also if pros are having trouble with the game and are saying the game has problems, not every complaint can be resolved with “scrubs are bad at the game”. It’s like this argument has bo middle ground lol
I've been trying to pick up Steve since t8 launched and I've been having a rough time of it, being stuck in Mid/High orange. Watching your videos has helped me feel like I've just been going about learning him all wrong, and I think I'm learning things (I hope)! This video in particular made me realize just how complex Steve is and how I can't rely just on frametraps. Thanks Phi, you're the best.
Unless he already filmed a vid offstream talking it over, pretty sure he's just been spamming victor on ranked for the past like 4 -5 days. Granted I haven't watched every second of the vods, but the titling of the streams would also suggest it. Here's to hoping he talks about it today!
I’m a Tekken noob with smash as my only fighting game. Your videos have helped a lot, I feel like I am slowly improving! Thank you! I have a new obsession lol
Thank you Phidx…. More strong players need to speak up against this scrub mentality. Arslan and Knee pretty much gave scrubs free reign to make excuses for their poor play, even when Arslan pivoted from his original stance
Hi Phi, awesome content as always. Do you have a guide on how to learn how to wake up while grounded and probably test the options during a match? Especially when on the wall.
As a DVJ main at emperor myself I tend to get linear with my gameplan until someone does adjust as you did. It’s really fun fighting people that adjust and I’m not even remotely mad if they beat me purely on movement and timing
I think that a video/series of you picking matches so you can do what you did at 7:45 could be pretty cool. Specifically, I like the idea of you being like, "okay, here's this match, I'm gonna give you a hint but watch it through muted first and then come back and watch my commentary, as a way of exercising your analyses skills." You have some really great analysis/breakdowns, and something like this could help us coach ourselves a little better. Of course, now that I say that out loud I realize I'm essentially asking for free coaching so now I'm like, oops. Ah well, anyway great video as always thanks.
Practice makes you better, always. I highly suggest that people get to know and UNDERSTAND T8 gameplay mechanics completely. Otherwise, you're gonna have a rough time online. Always.
In the realm where warriors clash and fight, Emerges Phidx, a beacon bright, With skillful hands and a keen eye, You master the game, reaching for the sky. From every combo to every parry, Your moves are swift, precise, and wary, With each battle fought, your legend grows, A Tekken master, everyone knows. Your UA-cam channel, a treasure trove, Of tips and tricks and epic shows, Guiding players through the Tekken lore, You teach, inspire, and so much more. With every stream, you bring delight, To fans who watch you day and night, A community built on respect and cheer, United by the passion you hold dear. Phidx, your journey’s a thrilling quest, Through trials and triumphs, you’re the best, May your path be filled with endless might, In every match, may you shine bright.
Would love to see sidestep drills for offense and defence in one video! Given the changes to make SS more useful in 1.05, I think it'd be a great time to capitalise on the change
Every player is different. You must adapt every game. Some people throw a lot. Some people do a lot of lows. Some people duck a lot. Some people know the matchup extremely well. Adapt every time.
@@merikijiya13 its difficult if people one and done you tho. And i need to know answers for thousands moves is what my main problem is. I love adapting, conditioning and mind games, is just kinda difficult without knowing all the properties of all of those moves
@@newphonewhodis7152 it’s suppose to be difficult. That is what makes the victories rewarding. That’s what I love about Tekken. The complexity and difficulty.
I hate the statement from people that like bashing on Tekken is that its over-bloated with moves and overcomplicated for no reason with no valid argument for it. I love Tekken for its depth and amount you can learn from each character. Meta's exist for every fighting game and some moves are more popular than others. Doesn't mean you can't use those other moves.
high level tekken always entertains me and is so cool but also look horrifying to even make tiny adjustments while theres an opponent breathing down your neck edit: also this is like one of the longest patch notes ive seen in a hot minute
side step is important game mechanic. rly important. some characters have better side steps then others and stuff. with sidesteps u can fully counter king now. if u don't stay too much in 1 place and sidestep sometimes between moves. ull beat any king.
I finding rank is a variety of old style tekken and new super aggressive 50/50 tekken. The new style is winning out by sheer number of players doing it but there is a small space for the old style tekken.
Devil Jin patch notes broke my heart today 😞 he’s the only character I was really enjoying that much. Jin - not as cool as t7 Bryan - ^ Drag is Drag in this game Reina seems like my only choice but she is so advanced it’s hard to get to the same level as my DVJ 😅
I love your videos phidx but when people say movement is dead they mainly mean korean backdashing/ 2d movement. Backdashing has been completely gutted to the point it is barely used in competitive play. You can do really well without back dashing unfortunately. My only wish is that the tekken devs decide to buff back dash since the game is already so overbearingly aggressive.
Not necessarily. Chikuren himself said he has found success with opting to use backdashing instead of kbd. Just because the movement has changed doesn’t mean it’s dead. I see a ton of the tekken community use such inflammatory language. “It’s dead” “that characters cheating because he has that one really good move” “throws are broken” like calm down it’s not that bad.
People crying about dragunov suck at everything, not just movement. They're gonna have a lot of fun after tomorrow's patch though. Dragunov bottom 5 without homing throws.
@@kato093 nah, he'll be fine. He has too much sauce to need to rely on homing throws. Forward-dash into throw solves the problem in a lot of cases anyways.
You want to know a good example is when AK vs Farzeen when he was playing victor no one was side stepping victor heat .... But AK was doing it and he won the round. The whole time everyone blocked and was getting chipped to death or simply getting hit by it but because he was stepping it... that was some next level tekken and it shows...how good pro player are compare to us monkeys.
I think psychologically its easier to blame the game for being scrubby versus doing the hard work of finding these interactions. Its pretty quick to get to purple ranks (2 months or so of consistent practice from total beginner), but the progress really starts to slow down as the skill difference per rank expands. Thanks for showing and explaining that its not just a bunch of 50/50s that gets you to Tekken God or God of Destruction. Anyone can take a 1 and done off if their main game-plan beats their opponent, but as you've demonstrated it takes a very high level of play to analyze and figure out how to counter the main game-plan in game 2. Keep up the good work Phi!
I do like the video, but I would say potentially look at the lower ranks and evaluate what goes on their, simply due to the fact that it’d be nice to see evaluations of what lower skilled players are doing and why people constantly say it. Sure there’s a lot of knowledge that needs to be learned, but maybe there’s something there that can be talked about, rather than always going for the upper echelon of players that most people aren’t reaching or isn’t in the scope of most players.
Game seems sick at a high level cause ppl are actually using their brains, lower level is cancerous with the mashing and rage quitting its actually awful
I mean, it's not black and white. The reason for T8 being called a scrubby game is because how far in the ranks you can go with just learning your own flowcharts and mashing them. 3ddy on twitch is a good example. A single match isn't really an argument against this, nor are how the pros play in tournaments. In general from lower to mid ranks people generally have no flexibility from the flowcharts or ability to adjust their gameplan. Attacking and momentum is so strong in T8 that it's even harder than earlier tekkens to play defensively. Then it often devolves into a mashfest where the winner is the one to get their flowchart running first usually wins. None of this means that there aren't nuance to how people can play, as I said, not black and white.
brother thats always been tekken,its just not this game! in a game that each character has 100 attacks, spamming them is easier to defend against them and its been the case since tk3 and eddy has always been like this! and wtf are you talking about? its scrubby cuz newbies are scrubbing?!?!? wtf does that mean? you expect from someone who just picked up a FIGHTING GAME to not just attack? its literally called a FIGHTING GAME and they don't know how mechanics works so of course they start spamming
"You can go far with a flowchart" applies literally to every fighting game with functioning online. And 3ddy was literally hardstuck in bottom 33% of ranked players so that's barely a winner.
I don't understand the point of this comment. It is always in the lower ranks where this happens because better players rank higher. And better players = all that is lacking in the lower ranks (flexibility, adjustment etc.) That 3ddy did not even get far, I dont get why that is being painted as an evidence of Tekken being scrubby (i.e anyone can win with mashing) since he is only winning in the lower ranks where a lot of players have little to no character attack knowledge, strategy, spacing, frame data understanding etc.... Most players don't even side step until Garyu lol
I think you are talking about a different game than what most people play. You are playing extremely high-level players who understand the game much more than anything lower than gold rank players in Tekken 8. In lower ranks, while what you're describing definitely works, the opponent is conditioned for one round and basically does a brain wipe at the beginning of the next, so all your conditioning goes out the window and you have to start all over again, and that's what really frustrating, every other opponent I feel like I have to spend half the round teaching them what a 50/50 is because they just won't stop mashing their bullshit strings/evasion/power crush moves, THEN they start blocking when they realize they can't mash in disadvantage, THEN after 2-3 hellsweeps they'll start ducking. I have to do ALL the mental work for them to actually play the game, meanwhile they get practically the same reward for complete unga. It's not that movement is useless (although it's severely underpowered compared to mashing your character's respective bullshit), it's that you have to work so hard to make it work compared to knowledge checks and flowcharts. For context, I'm a Tekken 8 newcomer, blue rank Devil Jin (formerly Kazuya, hailing from Smash Ultimate) main, and while I've already stated that I think movement is not strong enough, I'd rather not go the overwhelmingly defensive route of Tekken 7. I think there's a lot of room to find the middle ground between Tekken 7 and current Tekken 8 that would be more enjoyable for more defensive players.
Ill ne honest, Tekken 8 is a very scrub game, man, i know you want to be positive, but it is what it is. They've destroyed a ceiling of fundamentals to make the game easier for casuals, and now its so aggressive that is just boring to play, i feel exhausted with every round and i have no energy to play for more than 20 minutes, and every playthrough gives me headache, i dont think the game is fun and i dont think its a good game. I play since Tekken 3, i never felt that way about a tekken game.
Your experience with Tekken since T3 speaks volumes. Tekken is supposed to be like a modern CHESS. Fundamentals should not change so drastically. Otherwise it's not really Tekken but something else. They should have called it Tekken smash hoes or something similar 😂
Always enjoy your content! But I regret trying to read both the twitch chats during this match. All I understood was hidetone is in love with a LoL character and people raging about (for and against) dvj.
Saying movement in Tekken 8 is useless is a bit of an exaggeration. Saying movement is significantly weaker in Tekken 8 (before 1.05) than it was in Tekken 7 is true though. Sidestepping u1+2 on Victor is inconsistent at best and impossible at worst depending on your character and there are TONS of plus/safe on block half screen WR2/FF2 or similar tools that can't be stepped. It's no coincidence that a good portion of the strongest characters in the game have these tools. Try using movement against say a Reina, a character who's offense comes primarily from movement and invalidating your own defensive movement with an unsteppable safe on block f,f2 that leads to 50/50s. I'm an old player myself, I'm TG in T7 and TGS in T8. Invalidating the complaints about movement-- which is what this is because it works on a mid-tier at best character who's weaknesses were present in T7 when there are a lot of characters in T8 who don't share this weakness and saying (clickbait or not) the problem isn't real, saying that only bad players think this way can leave the game balance in a sorry state. No one wants the horrendously stupid, brainless offense/pressure that comes from these unsteppable safe on block half screen 50/50s and the devs seem to see what the problems are. Patch 1.05 will make defensive movement significantly more viable/important, which is all anyone can ask for.
Good comment. There's also a issue where there's like no middle ground in the discourse either, where it's either it side stepping doesn't help at all or it helps a lot somehow. The reality is that side stepping is far more niche and risky in T8, than it ever was in T7 or before and it's by design from the devs. Hopefully patches going forward can start to make movement a primary focus again
@@micman963 Thanks! I feel like the way the video was framed was intentionally inflammatory, maybe it's the way I'm seeing things but I took it as insulting people for saying movement is bad in T8. There's not much merit in saying something is strong/weak and berating people based on skill level without first asking why they think the way they do, while it's true most lower level player's movement is bad, there's still a valid reason to complain about movement. The fact of the matter is that before the most recent patch sidestepping was like you said, a risk. In T7 stepping and movement was a lot of MU knowledge that you could use to force your opponent to resort to other options like we saw in the video here with Devil Jin. DJ isn't the entire roster, more characters should be like Devil Jin, less should be like Victor. It'd make for a much better experience for the people who CAN make use of movement. Addressing this instead of saying "Look I can step/duck x character's layer 1" screams to me like people want more tools like U1+2, that's almost certainly not the case, but by turning a blind eye and dismissing the complaints there's no reason DLC characters moving forward won't have these let's be honest unfair/unfun tools. I look at what I see in ranked in mid to high level play and more often than not you see characters with tools like these. If you try and shut out Reina's, Drag's or Zafina's layer 1 with movement In all but Reina's case it's a risk, with Reina you absolutely have to respect f,f2 when you give her space and if you don't she has a hit-confirmable 112, where her only major weakness is her mediocre lows.. Which would matter if her pressure didn't more than compensate for that. These are things that I'm glad to see changing in 1.05, and I'm really hoping new characters moving forward won't have Victor/Reina's unsteppable nonsense. And just for the record I'm an old Jin/Asuka/Lidia player and I also do play Reina, I know the character is BS. I have a huge issue with Reina/Victor because they're new and have tools other characters by and large simply don't, tools that thank Harada have finally been made more fair. Edit: Also thank GOD they made heat burst/smash more steppable, I finally feel like I can punish people acting out of turn on my Asuka.
@@ThatPinkOtter I'm def worried that DLC characters will launch with tools like the ones you mentioned, it's like a sure fire way to get people to buy a character. Atleast this patch was a step in the right direction
Old man meta analysis: The dvj had poor defense and was reliant on opponent atracks to get ws punish combos. Could then use heat pressure and safe tools. Your switch to ssr duck put him in the offensive position while also shutting down most of his flow chart, and u were able to get the same adv he had on you. He kept praying for ws combos and for u to play a nire proactive offense, but u stayed with a reactive offense. Overall: good adjustments but i think u missed the simple meta. Neither player controlled the other but u did control urself enough to tip the scales. If i was his coach i would have him build confidence in his defense so when u switched he could rely on timed ff2 and nuetral resets like ws4, df1, b4? To put u back into the attack mode of the 1st match. Both players did well at capitalizing thier adv and offense.
while yes, also I think this dvj just forgot what df21 does... would have been the fast enough option and safe enough to counter ssr duck. Also a lack of patience altogether and over reliance on the crushing properties of db2
Well when you get 2 of the least “Tekken 8” characters against each other in Tekken 8, you’re gonna see some good ass Tekken. The real Tekken 8 characters can’t do this. They’re too effective.
Its just more frustrating to play I guess because there are a lot more moves that surprised me sometimes like bryan qcb 1... I feel like everyone is like kazuya also in this game with the 50:50 that I kind ajust rolled my eyes sometime... Its not unplayable and no skill... its just not fun compared to T7 where you can play poke and spacing... I main lee in T7 and seeing how he plays in T8 now makes me drop him... just my opinion...
This set was extremely fun to play and watching it back is super cool to see. Ggs was fun and learned a lot
Were you the DvJ player?
@@ChristopherWaddelow really using our brains here aren't we
@@venkkat3863 nah, you can use your own brain, I'll use mine
GGs! Would love to play more sometime 😁
@@ChristopherWaddelow bro, you struggling to understand how grammar works huh?
LTG seething with this one
myguy malding when he thought deji is just a scrub strat abuser.
LTG fundamentals are good. MainManSwe agrees having fought him.
@@chiiheiral5365 To be fair their matches we’re border line unplayable 200+ms 2f delay 2-3f rollback. It could’ve went either way fr
@@noobslayer1196 solid fundamentals wont save you from a bad mental
@@noobslayer1196bro pretty much plays fighting games for a living. It’d be a goddamn embarrassment if he didn’t have good fundamentals.
Also the dude crumbles under pressure so hard. He’ll bitch about his opponent mashing while mashing into plus frames.
Something I’ll always love about fighting games is that they all are games built around problem solving.
Once you get past the point of execution and beginner knowledge, it becomes a test of how quickly you can assess and react to a situation.
While it isn’t perfect at my level, it is always really cool to see pros continuously adapt and improve throughout a long match. You get to see them in real time pick up on each other’s habits and find solutions to their opponents solutions.
It’s so much fun to watch these slight adjustments force the other players to rethink their approach, and come up with their own unique answer. It’s the whole reason I watch and started to play fighting games
I appreciate this. T8 is my first that I’ve invested some time into and I feel like a lot of people can easily fall into helplessness due to the overall aggression when I’ve always felt like there are answers but you gotta take risk to find them
For sure dude. If people could figure out all the answers to every problem in fgs in the first few months then fgs would be very boring, lol.
Some of that modern social media/skinner box brainrot at work, people want shit to be figured out up front.
Honestly Phi, people just like to make excuses for their subpar performance.
Tekken is an extremely challenging game and you don’t become amazing at it in only 4 months. Yes it can be frustrating, but what game can’t???
Because Tekken forces you to own up to your own mistakes it is infinitely easier to just blame the game. I’m not saying there aren’t any bugs or things that need to be improved, just that a lot of the stuff our brothers and sisters complain about is just…a skill issue.
Aye brother I agree wit most of what you said. But how come when i throw a kick and someone does a throw they snatch up my leg without trading hits
Ik this isnt like a glitch or anything but it makes me outrageously heated
Case in point, most of Phi’s twitch chat was barely paying attention to his lesson and were too busy bickering about how strong or weak DVJ is 🤦🏻 smh lol
People get so hung up on character strength like there’s a huge gulf between characters and it’s just not true. I think we’ve seen plenty of character variety in T8 tourneys already. Especially compared to the end of T7 where it was Kuni, Feng, Akuma, and Geese in most top 8s.
People don’t want to admit that the balance is pretty good because then it’s all on them and their lack of skill and work in preparation.
Agreed! I find myself doing it sometimes and I have to remind myself that I'm just raging and the real problem is my performance or knowledge of the matchup. that's the only way to keep learning and improve otherwise you stay tilted the whole time you're playing and end up hating yourself and the game.
Agreed 100%! In four months I've made it to Tenryu (first Tekken I've done ranked for) and I feel like my movement skills are JUST now beginning. I still have so much to learn and improve on and I've played something like 2000 matches now. Sounds like a lot but it really is not.
the game is extremely hard for a beginner and most mechanics do seem impossible to implement into live gameplaty. that being said, if you stick with it and earnestly try to improve things do get easier. 200 hours in, i can now react to most snake edges, can low parry/duck strings and if I have a read, I'm quite consistently stepping and punishing most while running moves. i never would've thought it possible 10-100 hours in. i thought breaking throws was impossible too but now I can at least react to a throw animation and mash a guessed throw break. I think with more time i'll eventually recognise which arm. anyway, all this seemed impossible a couple months ago but gradually unlocking these skills has been extremely satisfying.
Genuinely. There was a time in Tekken 7 where i painstakingly practiced throw breaks vs Drag and now I don't even think about it when i break throws. Practice really does make perfect.
Very nice to hear that. You lab or rewatch your matches or you got better just by playing? And which rank you could reach?
@@isshintheguy4172shit man. I want to get to that level. I need to practice my throws too.
I think you could build on this Phi! I love the idea of a sort of Tekken Mythbusters where you take some of the most popular Twitter takes and disprove them through match examples. I think our community needs this pushback to encourage learning the game more and spend less time mindlessly complaining about every character in the game lol
Yes I'd love that!!
this video doesnt change how stepping linear moves and getting clipped... "improved movement" stepping got buffed and so did tracking.. which means stepping didnt get buffed.
I believe what a lot of people complain about boils down to this: offense is being rewarded too much while legacy knowledge isn't overwhelmingly in their favor. And i can't help but agree with that take. I'm new to fighting games, yet made it to tekken king in 2 months. I just shouldn't be able to get there that quickly. I was grinding my ass off but regardless that shouldn't be possible in any case so i see myself as part of the problem. I know a lot of people will say rank is meaningless but for non competitors it still is a slap in the face in some way
Why shouldn’t it be that way? This is a new game going in a new direction. Either you adapt or get left behind. I don’t think there is anything wrong with the direction it has taken. Will people complain? Sure. But in previous Tekken games many new comers were complaining that legacy knowledge made coming into the game extremely unfun and daunting. Can’t please everyone.
@@merikijiya13 like i said, i am new so i can't really talk about anything other than my own perspective which is: this game is the most fun i have ever had, while also being the hardest game i ever got into.
@@KripticHCS I’ve been playing since T3 and I’m loving it. A lot of people are complaining about the difficulty of transitioning to the new play style because legacy knowledge is less valuable. But even the professional who complained about it admitted then just need time to adapt.
@@merikijiya13 yeah, i back your perspective. Sometimes it sucks to adapt to a new playstyle in a franchise you main but it isn't always for the worse. Had similar issues with my old main franchise but all you can do is adapt or be left behind
Also Tekken King in 2 months!? That’s impressive. You might be like a legit prodigy cuz that is most certainly not normal. Who knows maybe you’ll be in some Tekken tournaments in the future.
People just love finding excuses for why they lose. "This game is random" "Scrub mechanics". "I play such a hard character and he's using a noob one" etc etc
Are you saying all the most recent fighting games don't just happen to be random? To be casino? Party games? There's a reason legacy skill is rewarded and the outcomes aren't dice rolls? Wait... That would mean I might have something to do with my outcomes........... Unacceptable!
I mean the Sajam Slam you all showed a great amount of movement being important to win the fights. It was such an epic tourny and respect to all of you for you efforts :)
I LOVED this type of video.
It scratches the exact same ick for Tekken that makes me nerd out about Tekken and keeps me wanting to learn about -and reach- higher levels of play. Movement, countering the counterplay of the counterplay, all the good stuff. Please, please more of those Phi!
“Complainers just need to get good”
Or maybe people just have valid criticisms of the balance and reasons given for balancing, oh and a lot are from veteran Tekken fans? This games systems aren’t really all that complicated
I love this video. Creating a gameplan in a match is something I struggle with and one of the biggest hurdles personally to progress. You talking about what you notice and your thought process to adapt are examples I needed to hear to help my own thought process. Thank you.
I think Devil Jin lacks ways to diversify approach.
He's pretty good, but after you get used to his best options, the other options are a bit too slow/telegraphed.
Did you just say that Devil Jin is pretty good... Come on man lol
Bro you devil jin mains are annoying
Dudes a gimmick character anyway who can fly
This was very informative and good learning for both sides. I would be interested in seeing more of these analysis in the future.
It's just some small moments, but I've had round start sidesteps work and then my opponent would adjust by stepping with me to catch me off-guard.
I've even had a player completely neutralize my gameplan with sidesteps once.
Tekken 8 is only a scrub game if you are a scrub.
Facts
The game does have a big inconsistency problem though. And the aggressive noob friendly nature of the game doesn’t help some of these negatives the game has.
yeah basically people say its scrubby because scrubs who don't know how to play the game are mashing
Can confirm, I'm a scrub
Also if pros are having trouble with the game and are saying the game has problems, not every complaint can be resolved with “scrubs are bad at the game”. It’s like this argument has bo middle ground lol
“Sidestepping is worthless” - DSP
The man was pushing buttons and didn’t do anything wrong.
Snort
Don't forget michael murray if you count paraphrasing.
where is link to your second channel?
Omg I forgot tysm youtube.com/@phidxunhinged?si=QAXM7RM3iOI0r0rf
phi got his ass kicked as started taking notes instead of complaining. thats why hes a professional player and im hardstuck red
7:59
"We are good at listening to you."
Mans a better teacher than teachers in school lol
This is why I love Tekken! Making adjustments and taking wins /set after a loss is incredibly satisfying
I love these videos man! I wanna nerd out and you deliver!
Great video, looking forward to your patch analysis 🙏
I've been trying to pick up Steve since t8 launched and I've been having a rough time of it, being stuck in Mid/High orange. Watching your videos has helped me feel like I've just been going about learning him all wrong, and I think I'm learning things (I hope)! This video in particular made me realize just how complex Steve is and how I can't rely just on frametraps. Thanks Phi, you're the best.
patch vid when
TOMORROW IS THE DAY 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Unless he already filmed a vid offstream talking it over, pretty sure he's just been spamming victor on ranked for the past like 4 -5 days. Granted I haven't watched every second of the vods, but the titling of the streams would also suggest it. Here's to hoping he talks about it today!
Bros glazin on it… tag me in ur getting tired
phiiiiii when’s the patch vid 😩😩😩😫😫😫😫😩😩😫😩
The patch video is out.
I’m a Tekken noob with smash as my only fighting game. Your videos have helped a lot, I feel like I am slowly improving! Thank you! I have a new obsession lol
I'm patiently waiting for Phi to dissect the balance patch, especially since Steve got some significant changes to his lionheart.
steve's jumping overhead rabbit punch and rabbit punch from flicker is the mixup i use for opponents who duck.
Thank you Phidx…. More strong players need to speak up against this scrub mentality. Arslan and Knee pretty much gave scrubs free reign to make excuses for their poor play, even when Arslan pivoted from his original stance
Hi Phi, awesome content as always. Do you have a guide on how to learn how to wake up while grounded and probably test the options during a match? Especially when on the wall.
As a DVJ main at emperor myself I tend to get linear with my gameplan until someone does adjust as you did. It’s really fun fighting people that adjust and I’m not even remotely mad if they beat me purely on movement and timing
Love this. I'm tired of the lies too.
I think that a video/series of you picking matches so you can do what you did at 7:45 could be pretty cool. Specifically, I like the idea of you being like, "okay, here's this match, I'm gonna give you a hint but watch it through muted first and then come back and watch my commentary, as a way of exercising your analyses skills." You have some really great analysis/breakdowns, and something like this could help us coach ourselves a little better. Of course, now that I say that out loud I realize I'm essentially asking for free coaching so now I'm like, oops. Ah well, anyway great video as always thanks.
Practice makes you better, always. I highly suggest that people get to know and UNDERSTAND T8 gameplay mechanics completely. Otherwise, you're gonna have a rough time online. Always.
Good digestable match analyist bro with good break down.
In the realm where warriors clash and fight,
Emerges Phidx, a beacon bright,
With skillful hands and a keen eye,
You master the game, reaching for the sky.
From every combo to every parry,
Your moves are swift, precise, and wary,
With each battle fought, your legend grows,
A Tekken master, everyone knows.
Your UA-cam channel, a treasure trove,
Of tips and tricks and epic shows,
Guiding players through the Tekken lore,
You teach, inspire, and so much more.
With every stream, you bring delight,
To fans who watch you day and night,
A community built on respect and cheer,
United by the passion you hold dear.
Phidx, your journey’s a thrilling quest,
Through trials and triumphs, you’re the best,
May your path be filled with endless might,
In every match, may you shine bright.
Would love to see sidestep drills for offense and defence in one video! Given the changes to make SS more useful in 1.05, I think it'd be a great time to capitalise on the change
So all i need to know is the property of every key move of every character and then i filter which of those are weak to the same option and do that?
Every player is different. You must adapt every game. Some people throw a lot. Some people do a lot of lows. Some people duck a lot. Some people know the matchup extremely well. Adapt every time.
@@merikijiya13 its difficult if people one and done you tho. And i need to know answers for thousands moves is what my main problem is. I love adapting, conditioning and mind games, is just kinda difficult without knowing all the properties of all of those moves
@@newphonewhodis7152 it’s suppose to be difficult. That is what makes the victories rewarding. That’s what I love about Tekken. The complexity and difficulty.
man like Philip, keep up the great vids
Hi man...such a nice set I've learned a lot and will definitely be applying that technical knowledge on D Jin players and see what will come out
How can I get in the discord??
I’m adding this to my Steve folder
I hate the statement from people that like bashing on Tekken is that its over-bloated with moves and overcomplicated for no reason with no valid argument for it. I love Tekken for its depth and amount you can learn from each character. Meta's exist for every fighting game and some moves are more popular than others. Doesn't mean you can't use those other moves.
high level tekken always entertains me and is so cool but also look horrifying to even make tiny adjustments while theres an opponent breathing down your neck
edit: also this is like one of the longest patch notes ive seen in a hot minute
The streets want more PhiUnhingedDX
This Devil Jin has the Daniel Ricciardo F1 helmet drip on
"This game isn't brain dead 50/50s" /proceeds to explain Devil Jin's primary 50/50.
side step is important game mechanic. rly important. some characters have better side steps then others and stuff. with sidesteps u can fully counter king now. if u don't stay too much in 1 place and sidestep sometimes between moves. ull beat any king.
The analyst is good and i liked the way it was broken down with different situation
fellow steve mains we are saved with the new buffs to lionheart also 16-17 frame launch with crouching df2 is nice
Really enjoying this video, not sure why but liking it more than some previous analysis
This is what im talking about, i really appreciate your content
SSR -> Duck is a classic Virtua Fighter technique lol
This is my first tekken what could the devil Jin do to counter the counter?
bf2, df2, cd 1+2, but the risk of b1 is stopping him
Sorry Phi Devil Jin has no key buttons since 1.05
I'm new to Tekken, I'm using a low tier, and I'm loving it.
I finding rank is a variety of old style tekken and new super aggressive 50/50 tekken. The new style is winning out by sheer number of players doing it but there is a small space for the old style tekken.
Devil Jin patch notes broke my heart today 😞 he’s the only character I was really enjoying that much.
Jin - not as cool as t7
Bryan - ^
Drag is Drag in this game
Reina seems like my only choice but she is so advanced it’s hard to get to the same level as my DVJ 😅
That devil jin character seems strong i think they should nerf his mids
I love your videos phidx but when people say movement is dead they mainly mean korean backdashing/ 2d movement. Backdashing has been completely gutted to the point it is barely used in competitive play. You can do really well without back dashing unfortunately. My only wish is that the tekken devs decide to buff back dash since the game is already so overbearingly aggressive.
Not necessarily. Chikuren himself said he has found success with opting to use backdashing instead of kbd. Just because the movement has changed doesn’t mean it’s dead. I see a ton of the tekken community use such inflammatory language. “It’s dead” “that characters cheating because he has that one really good move” “throws are broken” like calm down it’s not that bad.
50/50s in this game still drive me insane
phi will u make a breakdown video on chanel vs lowhigh grand final , its really cool to hear you breakdown such clutch sets ,
TELL EM!
Wow this dj player is wild ❤🎉
People moaning about dragunov are the same people who suck at movement.
Dragunov's biggest weakness is sidestepping and ducking, two of the most demanding things for new players in any Tekken game.
People crying about dragunov suck at everything, not just movement. They're gonna have a lot of fun after tomorrow's patch though. Dragunov bottom 5 without homing throws.
if your dragunov can be beat with just movement you're not playing the character
or I guess you are, but at very average level, barely
@@susulilith Oversimplifications are not smart arguments, my dude, try harder.
@@kato093 nah, he'll be fine. He has too much sauce to need to rely on homing throws. Forward-dash into throw solves the problem in a lot of cases anyways.
excellent break down
4-D Chess I love this bloody game.
Phi will u be playing sparking zero ???
Don't know man, looking at Rangchu I aint to keen on moving...
You want to know a good example is when AK vs Farzeen when he was playing victor no one was side stepping victor heat .... But AK was doing it and he won the round. The whole time everyone blocked and was getting chipped to death or simply getting hit by it but because he was stepping it... that was some next level tekken and it shows...how good pro player are compare to us monkeys.
TALK TO EM PHI!!!
I think psychologically its easier to blame the game for being scrubby versus doing the hard work of finding these interactions. Its pretty quick to get to purple ranks (2 months or so of consistent practice from total beginner), but the progress really starts to slow down as the skill difference per rank expands. Thanks for showing and explaining that its not just a bunch of 50/50s that gets you to Tekken God or God of Destruction.
Anyone can take a 1 and done off if their main game-plan beats their opponent, but as you've demonstrated it takes a very high level of play to analyze and figure out how to counter the main game-plan in game 2.
Keep up the good work Phi!
I do like the video, but I would say potentially look at the lower ranks and evaluate what goes on their, simply due to the fact that it’d be nice to see evaluations of what lower skilled players are doing and why people constantly say it. Sure there’s a lot of knowledge that needs to be learned, but maybe there’s something there that can be talked about, rather than always going for the upper echelon of players that most people aren’t reaching or isn’t in the scope of most players.
I genuinely need to know how would DvJ react to your adaptation.
Game seems sick at a high level cause ppl are actually using their brains, lower level is cancerous with the mashing and rage quitting its actually awful
sounds about right n spamming heat too
Rage quit is a real problem but mashing is just free winds
I mean, it's not black and white. The reason for T8 being called a scrubby game is because how far in the ranks you can go with just learning your own flowcharts and mashing them. 3ddy on twitch is a good example. A single match isn't really an argument against this, nor are how the pros play in tournaments. In general from lower to mid ranks people generally have no flexibility from the flowcharts or ability to adjust their gameplan.
Attacking and momentum is so strong in T8 that it's even harder than earlier tekkens to play defensively. Then it often devolves into a mashfest where the winner is the one to get their flowchart running first usually wins.
None of this means that there aren't nuance to how people can play, as I said, not black and white.
brother thats always been tekken,its just not this game! in a game that each character has 100 attacks, spamming them is easier to defend against them and its been the case since tk3 and eddy has always been like this! and wtf are you talking about? its scrubby cuz newbies are scrubbing?!?!? wtf does that mean? you expect from someone who just picked up a FIGHTING GAME to not just attack? its literally called a FIGHTING GAME and they don't know how mechanics works so of course they start spamming
3ddy didnt rly get far tho.
That's flaw in the ranking system more than the game imo
"You can go far with a flowchart" applies literally to every fighting game with functioning online. And 3ddy was literally hardstuck in bottom 33% of ranked players so that's barely a winner.
I don't understand the point of this comment. It is always in the lower ranks where this happens because better players rank higher. And better players = all that is lacking in the lower ranks (flexibility, adjustment etc.)
That 3ddy did not even get far, I dont get why that is being painted as an evidence of Tekken being scrubby (i.e anyone can win with mashing) since he is only winning in the lower ranks where a lot of players have little to no character attack knowledge, strategy, spacing, frame data understanding etc.... Most players don't even side step until Garyu lol
I think you are talking about a different game than what most people play. You are playing extremely high-level players who understand the game much more than anything lower than gold rank players in Tekken 8.
In lower ranks, while what you're describing definitely works, the opponent is conditioned for one round and basically does a brain wipe at the beginning of the next, so all your conditioning goes out the window and you have to start all over again, and that's what really frustrating, every other opponent I feel like I have to spend half the round teaching them what a 50/50 is because they just won't stop mashing their bullshit strings/evasion/power crush moves, THEN they start blocking when they realize they can't mash in disadvantage, THEN after 2-3 hellsweeps they'll start ducking. I have to do ALL the mental work for them to actually play the game, meanwhile they get practically the same reward for complete unga. It's not that movement is useless (although it's severely underpowered compared to mashing your character's respective bullshit), it's that you have to work so hard to make it work compared to knowledge checks and flowcharts.
For context, I'm a Tekken 8 newcomer, blue rank Devil Jin (formerly Kazuya, hailing from Smash Ultimate) main, and while I've already stated that I think movement is not strong enough, I'd rather not go the overwhelmingly defensive route of Tekken 7. I think there's a lot of room to find the middle ground between Tekken 7 and current Tekken 8 that would be more enjoyable for more defensive players.
Ill ne honest, Tekken 8 is a very scrub game, man, i know you want to be positive, but it is what it is. They've destroyed a ceiling of fundamentals to make the game easier for casuals, and now its so aggressive that is just boring to play, i feel exhausted with every round and i have no energy to play for more than 20 minutes, and every playthrough gives me headache, i dont think the game is fun and i dont think its a good game.
I play since Tekken 3, i never felt that way about a tekken game.
Your experience with Tekken since T3 speaks volumes. Tekken is supposed to be like a modern CHESS. Fundamentals should not change so drastically. Otherwise it's not really Tekken but something else. They should have called it Tekken smash hoes or something similar 😂
Love you, phi ❤️
Always enjoy your content! But I regret trying to read both the twitch chats during this match. All I understood was hidetone is in love with a LoL character and people raging about (for and against) dvj.
LOL
Keep it up❤
Saying movement in Tekken 8 is useless is a bit of an exaggeration.
Saying movement is significantly weaker in Tekken 8 (before 1.05) than it was in Tekken 7 is true though. Sidestepping u1+2 on Victor is inconsistent at best and impossible at worst depending on your character and there are TONS of plus/safe on block half screen WR2/FF2 or similar tools that can't be stepped. It's no coincidence that a good portion of the strongest characters in the game have these tools. Try using movement against say a Reina, a character who's offense comes primarily from movement and invalidating your own defensive movement with an unsteppable safe on block f,f2 that leads to 50/50s.
I'm an old player myself, I'm TG in T7 and TGS in T8. Invalidating the complaints about movement-- which is what this is because it works on a mid-tier at best character who's weaknesses were present in T7 when there are a lot of characters in T8 who don't share this weakness and saying (clickbait or not) the problem isn't real, saying that only bad players think this way can leave the game balance in a sorry state. No one wants the horrendously stupid, brainless offense/pressure that comes from these unsteppable safe on block half screen 50/50s and the devs seem to see what the problems are. Patch 1.05 will make defensive movement significantly more viable/important, which is all anyone can ask for.
Good comment. There's also a issue where there's like no middle ground in the discourse either, where it's either it side stepping doesn't help at all or it helps a lot somehow. The reality is that side stepping is far more niche and risky in T8, than it ever was in T7 or before and it's by design from the devs. Hopefully patches going forward can start to make movement a primary focus again
@@micman963 Thanks! I feel like the way the video was framed was intentionally inflammatory, maybe it's the way I'm seeing things but I took it as insulting people for saying movement is bad in T8. There's not much merit in saying something is strong/weak and berating people based on skill level without first asking why they think the way they do, while it's true most lower level player's movement is bad, there's still a valid reason to complain about movement.
The fact of the matter is that before the most recent patch sidestepping was like you said, a risk. In T7 stepping and movement was a lot of MU knowledge that you could use to force your opponent to resort to other options like we saw in the video here with Devil Jin. DJ isn't the entire roster, more characters should be like Devil Jin, less should be like Victor. It'd make for a much better experience for the people who CAN make use of movement.
Addressing this instead of saying "Look I can step/duck x character's layer 1" screams to me like people want more tools like U1+2, that's almost certainly not the case, but by turning a blind eye and dismissing the complaints there's no reason DLC characters moving forward won't have these let's be honest unfair/unfun tools. I look at what I see in ranked in mid to high level play and more often than not you see characters with tools like these.
If you try and shut out Reina's, Drag's or Zafina's layer 1 with movement In all but Reina's case it's a risk, with Reina you absolutely have to respect f,f2 when you give her space and if you don't she has a hit-confirmable 112, where her only major weakness is her mediocre lows.. Which would matter if her pressure didn't more than compensate for that. These are things that I'm glad to see changing in 1.05, and I'm really hoping new characters moving forward won't have Victor/Reina's unsteppable nonsense. And just for the record I'm an old Jin/Asuka/Lidia player and I also do play Reina, I know the character is BS. I have a huge issue with Reina/Victor because they're new and have tools other characters by and large simply don't, tools that thank Harada have finally been made more fair.
Edit: Also thank GOD they made heat burst/smash more steppable, I finally feel like I can punish people acting out of turn on my Asuka.
@@ThatPinkOtter I'm def worried that DLC characters will launch with tools like the ones you mentioned, it's like a sure fire way to get people to buy a character. Atleast this patch was a step in the right direction
Old man meta analysis:
The dvj had poor defense and was reliant on opponent atracks to get ws punish combos. Could then use heat pressure and safe tools.
Your switch to ssr duck put him in the offensive position while also shutting down most of his flow chart, and u were able to get the same adv he had on you.
He kept praying for ws combos and for u to play a nire proactive offense, but u stayed with a reactive offense.
Overall: good adjustments but i think u missed the simple meta.
Neither player controlled the other but u did control urself enough to tip the scales.
If i was his coach i would have him build confidence in his defense so when u switched he could rely on timed ff2 and nuetral resets like ws4, df1, b4? To put u back into the attack mode of the 1st match.
Both players did well at capitalizing thier adv and offense.
"Sidestep is useless, this game is for brain dead noobs"
*says a brain dead noob who can't sidestep*
KazuyaChaolon lol
Tekken 8 is active defense and people just aren’t use to that yet.
while yes, also I think this dvj just forgot what df21 does... would have been the fast enough option and safe enough to counter ssr duck. Also a lack of patience altogether and over reliance on the crushing properties of db2
Fear of b1 and 1,2,1
@@PhiDX but still throwing out hellsweep raw?
Hii phiii love your videos can you do a video against claudio next time? Like the usual strat against him ❤❤
This game is officially a 2D Fighter now lmao. Poor Tekken, I miss the tag 2 and Tekken 5 days
Tag 2!? Oh hell nah.
Well when you get 2 of the least “Tekken 8” characters against each other in Tekken 8, you’re gonna see some good ass Tekken. The real Tekken 8 characters can’t do this. They’re too effective.
Imagine complementing your opponent
I’m tired of all the truth!!!!
Not really keep it coming.
Its just more frustrating to play I guess because there are a lot more moves that surprised me sometimes like bryan qcb 1...
I feel like everyone is like kazuya also in this game with the 50:50 that I kind ajust rolled my eyes sometime...
Its not unplayable and no skill... its just not fun compared to T7 where you can play poke and spacing...
I main lee in T7 and seeing how he plays in T8 now makes me drop him...
just my opinion...
Great analysis
where can i find you discord?
hello chat :)
PHIIIII