True! Moreover I suspect that eventually most of my working tools will be replaced by modern equivalents. Nevertheless I am interested in the history of watchmaking tools as a basis for understanding the evolution of the art of watchmaking, and that understanding is greatly enhanced by using as many of the vintage tools as possible without letting the lack of some tools such as a Schaublin 70 with a dividing head slow me down!
... that lathe has indexing in the back of the headstock? I'd use that. To centre the cutter, turn a 90 degree cone on the end of the work. Cut into that which will make fine adjustments for centring easy.
Yes, the headstock has indexes but I'm trying to check the accuracy of the index driver I made. I will do a comparison once I get some proper wheels and pinions made. Great advice about centering the cutter by turning a 90 degree cone on the end of the work -- I guess the precise test being if it doesn't come to a perfectly sharp point you're not centered, correct?
@@IMakeWatches Turn a cone and make one cut in the top of the cone that you feel is centred. Rotate the work 180 degrees and make another cut. You can then look at the end of the work and see whether the two cuts align. Hope this helps. M
Oké, you should use cutting oil and make lighter passes. Also in my opinion your lathe is much to light for this kind of work, a Schaublin 70 would be a better choice.
Thanks for those tips! I do have a larger W12 lathe that can also cut wheels and pinions. I wanted to try it on both but you're right that the larger one would be better.
I want to purchase some watchmaking lathes and cutting tools like you've shown in your video. How did you go about finding them? Did you self educate on how to use them or go to training? Thank you
I self educated. Check out the links to other UA-cam channels on my home page, especially the Maker channels, and the links on my website to eBooks and blogs.
BTW, I checked out your channel and the most depressing thing that ever happened to Los Angeles was when Frys went out of business. It still makes me cry just thinking about it. I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, going to Casa Bonita in Denver, and that Frys was my adult Casa Bonita -- all the way down to the bins of junk food and candy at the checkout line. Great video!
If you try again, begin with the spindle speed dead slow, as with other comments, take multiple light passes and use some cutting fluid. You can just trail a bit of kerosene/paraffin on it with an artists brush. keep going. You will get there!
Cutting fluid? Also, rigidity is super important. Your cross slide is hanging way out, the cutter is at the end of a long arbor. Do all the overhanging on the stepper side since it doesn't need a high level of rigidity. Also, is that pinion steel annealed?
@@IMakeWatcheseliminado toda e qualquer folga no sistema, alinhado todo o sistema em todos os sentidos, eliminando qualquer vibração, utilizando dois ou mais microscópios, e tentando e errando até acertar, pinhão principalmente é a peça mais difícil de se fazer porque o corte é longitudinal e longo
Cutting pinions is much more difficult than cutting wheels. If you haven’t gotten comfortable with cutting wheels yet, I’d suggest learning this first. An excellent resource is “Wheel and pinion cutting in horology : a historical and practical guide" by Malcolm Wild. Chatter can be a dealbreaker when cutting pinions. The main causes of chatter are lack of rigidity and too much cutter speed. The rule of thumb for cutting high carbon steel is keep the cutter below 60 ft per second(measured at the outer edge). For a half inch cutter this is less than 462 RPM, for a quarter inch cutter less than 925 RPM. You may need to keep the RPMs well below these. Have a look at a pinion hobbing machine, there’s footage of Phillipe Dufour using one on UA-cam. They’re built like a tank, for rigidity. Pinions can be cut on a lathe, but I strongly suspect that a Geneva D bed lathe Lathe lacks the rigidity you need. I’d love to be proven wrong, though. I really like the indexing attachment you’ve built onto the lathe!
Wow! Thanks so much for these tips! I woke up dreaming about Philippe Dufour before reading your comment. I met him briefly last year and I keep thinking about how he's the only watchmaker that I've met that is still doing traditional watchmaking as opposed to CAD -> CNC -> hand finishing. I will be exploring computer aided design and CNC as well but I wanted to get a good feel for traditional techniques and in particular hands-on experience with materials and feeds and speeds first. Your notes about RPMs are therefore very helpful. I'll search out that book and video for sure! Thanks again!
@@IMakeWatches You’re welcome, and you are SO lucky to have met Phillipe. I find him to be absolutely inspirational. I found one video with the same small pinion hobbing machine in use at Phillipe’s workshop, the title is “Filming Michel Boulanger cutting pinion teeth at the atelier of Philippe Dufour”. I believe Phillipe has learned CAD now, there’s a UA-cam video where his daughter is demonstrating anglage and I’m pretty sure they talk about getting raw bridges and cocks they design by CAD, and Daniela then does some anglage on one. That book by Malcolm Wild seems to be the bible as far as wheel and pinion cutting in horology goes.
@@mercuriall2810 Thanks! That video and the pinion cutting machine are great! There's also a nice gear cutting video on that channel, which I added to my "maker" channel list. Thanks again!
you got to do tha math Dayton joking lol dont do tha meth ! just home 16hours bench day shoot me! next week i am free gonna start the project! love the setup Dayton realy awsome!! failing is the best learning tool!!
@@IMakeWatches you are but you doubt yourself lol.. your playing gone bring you great understanding... spending time with your tools and machines is good to get to know your tools and machines... maybe give her a name and talk to it
I don't make watches, wish I could but I do machine stuff and can see there is something not true in your spindle, I also do suspect you might be running that cutter too fast. Nice setup though
Thanks! I wrote a long answer with an old joke about a horse freezing from being driven too hard (totally clean joke) and UA-cam deleted it the moment I tried to post it. But yes, I need to slow down and get everything true and read about and experiment with speeds. I do have an RPM meter, and the motor also has RPMs. I just need to work on it. Thanks for the tips!
It's almost like your addiction for watch tools forced you into making watches haha
What do you mean "almost like...."? 😂😂😂
so cool. but this cnc indexer breaks a bit the vintage.
True! Moreover I suspect that eventually most of my working tools will be replaced by modern equivalents. Nevertheless I am interested in the history of watchmaking tools as a basis for understanding the evolution of the art of watchmaking, and that understanding is greatly enhanced by using as many of the vintage tools as possible without letting the lack of some tools such as a Schaublin 70 with a dividing head slow me down!
... that lathe has indexing in the back of the headstock? I'd use that. To centre the cutter, turn a 90 degree cone on the end of the work. Cut into that which will make fine adjustments for centring easy.
Yes, the headstock has indexes but I'm trying to check the accuracy of the index driver I made. I will do a comparison once I get some proper wheels and pinions made. Great advice about centering the cutter by turning a 90 degree cone on the end of the work -- I guess the precise test being if it doesn't come to a perfectly sharp point you're not centered, correct?
@@IMakeWatches Turn a cone and make one cut in the top of the cone that you feel is centred. Rotate the work 180 degrees and make another cut. You can then look at the end of the work and see whether the two cuts align. Hope this helps. M
@@openclockclubarchive325 Okay, that makes sense! I enjoy problem solving but I also appreciate your help and book learning.
Oké, you should use cutting oil and make lighter passes. Also in my opinion your lathe is much to light for this kind of work, a Schaublin 70 would be a better choice.
Thanks for those tips! I do have a larger W12 lathe that can also cut wheels and pinions. I wanted to try it on both but you're right that the larger one would be better.
@@IMakeWatches Oh, oké I understand. Thanks for showing anyway!
I want to purchase some watchmaking lathes and cutting tools like you've shown in your video. How did you go about finding them? Did you self educate on how to use them or go to training? Thank you
I self educated. Check out the links to other UA-cam channels on my home page, especially the Maker channels, and the links on my website to eBooks and blogs.
BTW, I checked out your channel and the most depressing thing that ever happened to Los Angeles was when Frys went out of business. It still makes me cry just thinking about it. I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, going to Casa Bonita in Denver, and that Frys was my adult Casa Bonita -- all the way down to the bins of junk food and candy at the checkout line. Great video!
If you try again, begin with the spindle speed dead slow, as with other comments, take multiple light passes and use some cutting fluid. You can just trail a bit of kerosene/paraffin on it with an artists brush. keep going. You will get there!
Thanks! I will try again, and I will do that!
Cutting fluid? Also, rigidity is super important. Your cross slide is hanging way out, the cutter is at the end of a long arbor. Do all the overhanging on the stepper side since it doesn't need a high level of rigidity. Also, is that pinion steel annealed?
Thanks so much for this comment! I need to work on everything you mentioned! This is very helpful!
demorei 3 anos de muita tentativa e erro para conseguir ter êxito na confecção de engrenagens de relógios, engrenagens de 1,5mm de diâmetro
Excellent! I'm going to try making a 0.9mm pinion as my next challenge -- with no experience! How do you think I'll do? 😂😂😂
@@IMakeWatcheseliminado toda e qualquer folga no sistema, alinhado todo o sistema em todos os sentidos, eliminando qualquer vibração, utilizando dois ou mais microscópios, e tentando e errando até acertar, pinhão principalmente é a peça mais difícil de se fazer porque o corte é longitudinal e longo
Cutting pinions is much more difficult than cutting wheels. If you haven’t gotten comfortable with cutting wheels yet, I’d suggest learning this first.
An excellent resource is “Wheel and pinion cutting in horology : a historical and practical guide" by Malcolm Wild.
Chatter can be a dealbreaker when cutting pinions. The main causes of chatter are lack of rigidity and too much cutter speed.
The rule of thumb for cutting high carbon steel is keep the cutter below 60 ft per second(measured at the outer edge). For a half inch cutter this is less than 462 RPM, for a quarter inch cutter less than 925 RPM. You may need to keep the RPMs well below these.
Have a look at a pinion hobbing machine, there’s footage of Phillipe Dufour using one on UA-cam. They’re built like a tank, for rigidity.
Pinions can be cut on a lathe, but I strongly suspect that a Geneva D bed lathe Lathe lacks the rigidity you need. I’d love to be proven wrong, though.
I really like the indexing attachment you’ve built onto the lathe!
Wow! Thanks so much for these tips! I woke up dreaming about Philippe Dufour before reading your comment. I met him briefly last year and I keep thinking about how he's the only watchmaker that I've met that is still doing traditional watchmaking as opposed to CAD -> CNC -> hand finishing. I will be exploring computer aided design and CNC as well but I wanted to get a good feel for traditional techniques and in particular hands-on experience with materials and feeds and speeds first. Your notes about RPMs are therefore very helpful. I'll search out that book and video for sure! Thanks again!
@@IMakeWatches You’re welcome, and you are SO lucky to have met Phillipe. I find him to be absolutely inspirational.
I found one video with the same small pinion hobbing machine in use at Phillipe’s workshop, the title is “Filming Michel Boulanger cutting pinion teeth at the atelier of Philippe Dufour”.
I believe Phillipe has learned CAD now, there’s a UA-cam video where his daughter is demonstrating anglage and I’m pretty sure they talk about getting raw bridges and cocks they design by CAD, and Daniela then does some anglage on one.
That book by Malcolm Wild seems to be the bible as far as wheel and pinion cutting in horology goes.
@@mercuriall2810 Thanks! That video and the pinion cutting machine are great! There's also a nice gear cutting video on that channel, which I added to my "maker" channel list. Thanks again!
@@IMakeWatches My pleasure, happy to help where I can. I really enjoy watching your watchmaking journey, too. Keep it up! 👍
Really great advice. That book is a must.
you got to do tha math Dayton joking lol dont do tha meth ! just home 16hours bench day shoot me! next week i am free gonna start the project! love the setup Dayton realy awsome!! failing is the best learning tool!!
If failing is the best learning tool I am on my way to becoming a genius for sure! Definitely stay away from the meth though! 😂😂😂
@@IMakeWatches you are but you doubt yourself lol.. your playing gone bring you great understanding... spending time with your tools and machines is good to get to know your tools and machines... maybe give her a name and talk to it
I don't make watches, wish I could but I do machine stuff and can see there is something not true in your spindle, I also do suspect you might be running that cutter too fast. Nice setup though
Thanks! I wrote a long answer with an old joke about a horse freezing from being driven too hard (totally clean joke) and UA-cam deleted it the moment I tried to post it. But yes, I need to slow down and get everything true and read about and experiment with speeds. I do have an RPM meter, and the motor also has RPMs. I just need to work on it. Thanks for the tips!
What are you going to make?
Thanks for asking! I'm working my way up to trying to make an hour wheel, cannon pinion, and minute wheel for a verge fusee!
@@IMakeWatches Okay 👍
has anyone here built a magrav?
No but I'd like to!
@@IMakeWatches that is the start of a brilliant conversation. shall we continue?