I agree 100%, that triple defense 410 shot is the only thing I'd use in these little Derringers. That being said, my cowboy 410/45 is one of my favorite little range toys! Great video as always man!
At 400 FPS that slug will go right through a human head no problem. .45 is a big hole that does not need to expand to be effective. Anything smaller than .38 will close up but larger than that will bleed. Even with the weak stuff that Derringer is very lethal. Great demonstration thanks for the show!
No, sorry you watch too many movies.... 230gr. @ 400fps has around 80ft./lbs energy. Lethal ? Yeah point blank possibly... .45 size and bone density I can guarantee you that will not pass through someone's head. Only thing it is guaranteed to do is to stop them from what they were doing in the first place. People have survived shots to the head. And I can tell you first hand that .45acp 230gr. from a 5" barrel doesn't have the energy to pass through a (not admitting to a crime) head.
Too bad you can’t hit shit with this gun. Crappy trigger, useless sights, heavy, awkward reload and bad ergonomics. Amazing they sell 20,000 of these turds a year. Gordon Bond is the consummate salesman
Yeah, it seems like he's moving a bit too fast with information/misinformation. The 45 Colt is a huge bullet and can kill or sever anyone's limbs easily. He's focusing on FPS in error. Bond Arms barrels pack strong rounds and are perfectly fine for self defense. You never want to kill, but we want to stop the threat. Liberty and Hornady make ammo that travel fast in 45 Colt. Yes, 45 colt ammo is expensive, we all know that.
My "Get off of me!" handgun is a Charter Arms Bulldog 2.5 inch barrel 5 shot double-action revolver loaded with 5 rounds of Speer 44 Special 200 grains Gold Dot hollow point bullets.
I have shot some 45 colt, and my .410 reloads out of my Bond Arms, and man they are a super close up gun, and I have a ton of unburnt powder out of .410 ammo from these. I may try to find a 3 1/2" barrel for mine to try out. not sure it has more rifling or just a 1/2 longer chamber though... I am happy you did this test though. Interesting results with the 45 LC premium type ammo. I got my bond arms more for a novelty, but when I posted it on my channel I was amazed at how many guys said they carry the same model regularly. To me its too bulky and not enough power to carry. I still would not want to be on the muzzle end of it though
T & T, I have a 45 acp bond arm pistol. A very well made gun but it also is really heavy. In 45 acp it kicks like a mule. Not really a useful gun but I have a gun safe full of experiments. T & T love your videos and love your voice. You have a very sellable talent for voice over work. You really should pursue voice over if you think that would be fun...
@@ToolsandTargetsMe too LoL ! I just picked up a Roughneck in 45 ACP with a 2.5 inch barrel. I'm thinking it might take the place of my "always" gun- my NAA 22 LR mini revolver.
I thought I’d revisit the discussion of the Bond Arms Grizzly. I just watch your three videos on it again. What I said about it in the comments here 7 months ago I still stand by, with the possible exception of its potential use for pocket carry. In times past when I carried it, I did so in its holster clipped onto my belt. My Grizz is still primarily my snake gun which I wear when camping/hiking. My primary CCW weapon is my Taurus GX4 in a DeSantis Nemesis (#N38BJE1Z0) pocket holster, so there are brief occasions where I have both guns on me. But since I carry 11+1 with the extra 11-round mag, I’m not likely to ever get down to the point of my “backup” gun. What I do with this tool back in the city is use it as a car gun. When I’m seated and buckled into either my truck or my wife’s car, accessing the GX4 in my pocket is devilish hard to do, so I keep the Grizzly on the door. In that application, I have a Bond Arms barrel chambered in 9mm, so that’s what it’s loaded with in its car gun mode. Seven months ago I agreed with you that this is too heavy for pocket carry. But last night I decided to weigh the various guns in my carry rotation, loaded and unloaded, and the results were surprising. My GX4 fully loaded with 115-gr JHP and the Grizzly with the 9mm barrel loaded with 2 rounds of the same ammo weigh the same, *exactly* the same: 23.7 oz. So while I still don’t pocket carry the Grizzly, I can’t say it’s *too* heavy for pocket carry, since I have no problem carry the GX4.
As a coincidence , just before this , happened to watch another channel gel testing Ammo Inc. 45 Colt , albeit a different 250 gr jacketed bullet . I'll skip his gel results , but the velocity was approximately 750 fps from 4 inch Revolver . That's certainly plausible. Lots of modern Era .45 Colt 250gr will run mid 700's . Short of testing ammo from that same box from a couple of revolvers of " normal " bbl lengths over same chronograph, same day - I'd have to go with that particular power & charge just don't play well with am effective 0.50 inch bbl length . The too short bbl with .410 length massive freebore is the limiting factor , not the ammunition.
My father in law has that same derringer and I have to say it is kinda cool. I wouldn’t want it for EDC but loaded with shot cartridges it would be damn useful to throw in my pocket when I go out to the barn and need to deal with occasional rats and snakes out there.
@Tools&Targets Yeah, I mostly carry my S&W 9mm when I want full protection on the job, but these bond arms guns make for great backup guns! I usually use my bond arms stinger chambered in 380 as my preferred BUG when I'm working in especially dangerous areas. It's both compact and very comfortable to carry.
Surprisingly how the ammo inc performed. Hopefully it is due to the short barrel. Your videos and test prove time and time again. Longer the barrel better the performance of the rounds are. Thanks for the video and information.
I would much rather carry the NAA. This thing is just way too big and heavy to be even a good backup in my opinion. I was actually looking at a NAA Wasp model .22 mag in my local shop earlier. Cool looking little thing.
@@ToolsandTargets I HAVE TWO NAAS. ONE THAT CAME WITH TWO CYLINDERS AND THE OTHER ONE A 22. YOU'LL BE HAPPY WITH ONE FOR SURE, AND GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.
@@ToolsandTargets the best thing NAA did for their mini revolver is make the plastic folding handle, it covers the trigger when closed and opened actually gives you a good grip to make it a viable tool IMO. The original small field hockey stick type handles didn't give you much to hold on to. My dad had one I used to shoot, it was built solidly, but that small handle held it back self defense wise. Buddy of mine got one with the folding handle and wow it improves the tool enormously.
I missed this before T&T but glad I watched it. I have a 3.5" 45 Colt/410 barrel set but never have shot 45 Cclt with it because the barrels it came with are 3" 45 ACP which I figured then, and still do, would be more efficient than the 1.7" of freebore blow by. I will eventually get 3.5" 45 Colt only barrels for it but your tests here show that the 255 grain swc loads I have may do okay in comparison to the old English 455 Webley out of my 3.5" 45/410 set. I expect it to have less felt recoil than my 45 ACP 3". Thanks again for these fun informative videos.
The problem with a cylinder cut to accept 410 shot shells wont allow full obteration of the 45 colt case so you blow alot of pressure past the projectile causing it to go slow
👍👍Thanks tools, I think I’d rather pocket carry a j frame revolver (which I do at times). I appreciate your test you’ve become an ammo testing machine.
I’ve seen that Ammo inc on line and didn’t think it would do much . Glad I stayed away. Thanks for the video. I’ve always wondered if these little guns were worth a try. Thank you again .
A friend had one of these in 45 colt and 410, I shot it but decided was not for me, prefer a j frame S&W as a carry the derringer was to heavy for why I wanted it as a pocket gun The 45 Colt is a great CCW caliber though I believe just there are no good revolvers made for easy carry , that along with the 44 Special are both good self defense calibers
About the only thing small is the Charter arms PUG in .44 spl. Years ago S&W made a 3" .45LC Mountain gun or Lew Horton special edition don't remember which. But a N frame is no pocket gun. I have one .41 magnum and it handles very well.
Good stuff have you done any tests with 45 colt in any longer barrels like a single action army or anything? I have some of those remington hollow points I carry in a few on mine, would be curious to see how they do in longer barrels.
I’d be kinda worried about firing that ammo Inc.. dang things might not manage to even push the projectile out the barrel and get one stuck in there, literally! Lol. Personally, those bond arms are cool but would be just about at the very bottom of my list for self defense tools… that being said, if an assailant was under 5 or 6 feet away from me and it was the absolute last resort, that little thing might just save someone’s life in that last resort defense type situation- moving slower than slow but at least .45 doesn’t shrink! Great video sir, have a good one
Are you trying to kill someone or just defend yourself? Some of these comments are a bit disturbing. Most times, the powerful blast sound from one of these (or any gun) will scare your attacker away.
I don't know if Underwood still makes them or not, but I have some full Wadcutter 45 Colt, and you talk about major damage. It produces good penetration, and damage on par with any 45 Colt hollow point out of my 4 1/2inch Sing Action. The nose of the bullet is the same size as the rest. One solid cylinder
@ToolsandTargets Nice. I checked their website, they still make it. 26 bucks a box. 45 Colt is one of my favorite cartridges. Not necessarily for carrying, but them hard cast are nice in the woods.
i have b.a. derringer frames, but all the original gen2, not the lesser finished rough models, and barrels in most calibers. used are good deals since stoutly built but little shot. pricey niche pieces indeed, but we all need just one indulgence. extra barrels useful during ammo droughts for ammo scrounging and convenient holiday self-gifts. always use long grips. my winter afternoon walk ccw is a 4” b.a., loaded with 45lc lrn or 45schofield fmj, with trigger guard removed for gloved hands operation. some 410pdx rounds in a speedstrip. in my locale, with snow on the ground, it works…for me.
If you want to see fancy shooting for 45 Derringer look up Bob Munden Bond Arms. He used a 45 Colt only 3" so his 255 grain lead stabilized. 75 yards, two shots up close two ballons. Card shooting.
@@ToolsandTargets Iv always wanted to buy a wasp! They used to skeletonize the hammer but not anymore you can only get those used due to them having a breaking problem but of all the naa revolvers Iv always had an eye on the wasp.
I really expected the Underwood to do much more !!! I thought we would see some good plumes from it. Would like to see a Extreme Defender or a Federal Punch !!!
Interesting! That being a .45 and .410 gun with all that bullet jump, I have to wonder how much gas blows past the bullet. Too bad nobody makes a hollow base wadcutter for .45 like they do for .38 special. I share the opinion of most that those are primarily range toys. If I was to carry one for a defensive backup gun, I’d choose a short cartridge and get as much rifled barrel as possible, say .45 ACP or 9mm.
This informative review on a gun ironically became a bit of comedy for me. Glad that we live in a time where 9mm semi autos are commonplace carry guns since self defense with Derringers would be an experience...
Some good info tools ...funny about the ammo inc ..I had a similar thing happen last year ..a buddy brought over a 460 s&w mag and some sellier &Bellot ammo ...it felt like shooting a 357 mag ...way under powered ..
A few decades back I bought a budget brand derringer (not Bond). Got it in .38 Spl. Quickly figured out it was only a range toy of very limited utility. Felt bad when I sold it. Actually took the guy out and had him shot a few rounds through it first. He thought it was cool anyway, so it went home with him.
Good to know about that Ammo Inc fodder. I only have about 500 rounds of that trash. Hope I don't get any squib loads. Shooting them from my 7 1/2-inch Ruger New Model Blackhawk. Sure do hope none of them get stuck in the pipe. Thanks again.
At least they should get a little more velocity there. It would be different if they were marketed as cowboy loads but they're TMJ. Even the Armscor cowboy stuff was hotter.😆
I have 2 derringers, neither are bond arms, 1 is in .410 45 Colt the other in .32 h&r mag, and you really have to practice with those derringers to get good. There is a gun store here in planet of the apes, st.l that sold every candy apple red .22lr cobra arms derringer they got in, mostly to broads.
The lesson I'll take from this is that it's best to skip hollow points for this pistol. They won't expand anyway, so don't bother wasting your money. This is a last ditch effort to get out of a bad situation gun. There certainly are alot better options out there, but not a bad thing to have when things go sideways on you.
Lincoln was shot with a black powder .44 caliber version using a .41 caliber ball. The cowboy versions are made to make better holes in paper. I think a 140 grain at full PSI would do the job of putting a hole in a spine.
I've had a derringer for years but now I'm trading it off. For about the same size and weight I can carry a Taurus 856 which has six shot capacity instead of two. Just makes more sense to me.
That's my number one issue with this as far as an actual carry gun. It's heavier and nearly as big as my 365 plus much less user friendly. It just doesn't make sense as a main carry or backup for me.
How's the recoil vs the 32acp tomcat? In your hands it looks to have basically zero recoil shooting that .45 cal 😮 I ask because I'm looking for a pocket carry and I'm stuck between the 32acp tomcat or the bonds arms .45 colt /410
Don’t recall a slug penetrating less then the Ammo Inc round. If I was going to carry the Bond which I wouldn’t, the 410 buckshot would work the best. At least the 45 Colt makes big holes. Thanks for the video Tools!
I like the damage from the JHP (tumbling seems to always be better than expansion anyway, at least with lower speed bullets). BUT ... man it was a lot more shallow in penetration than I figured it would be! The Keith-style semi-wadcutter might be a tad much, but then again, at least you know it's gonna reach the plumbing, if you know what I mean. Have you noticed either being predictably accurate from that derringer? Years back I was fooling around with an American Derringer Corp. .45/.410 and got pretty decent accuracy. I didn't shoot past 10 yards but each barrel grouped about thumb-sized groups with PMC (kinda weak and crappy) .45 Colt, each group about 3" apart vertically. I used to have an ADC derringer in .357 magnum and had to qualify with it to carry it as a BUG/OD weapon. That course of fire was 5 at 15 yards, 10 rounds from 5 yards, and 10 rounds in draw-and-fire one-handed strings from one yard. I always qualified (a few other local LEOs had .45/.410 derringers and did okay with them, too using .45 Colt).
Have you ever tried cardboard blast baffles for the Chrono? You shoot through a small window and the cardboard catches a lot of the unburned powder and blast wave that causes errors.
I agree that for the money, weight and performance, there's a lot better options out there. That being said, I'm surely not volunteering to get hit with it. Take care!
I "long listed" on of these BA Grizzlys, because honestly I only see myself getting into a conflict at 'bad breath distance'......then I Actually held one, OMG it's a lead weight, for 2 shots....there are Many better choices CCW.
Would an shorter round , like 380 , 32acp , 22short , etc , perform better from an equivalent length barrel and same style of gun than 45 colt , 357 mag , and etc ?
I think carrying a pocket full of chunking rocks would be better than that Ammo, Inc. junk. The others are actually pretty impressive considering you’ve got almost no barrel on that derringer. Always interesting tests here👍.
My disappointment with anything attempting to combine anything .410 with the .45 Colt goes back to the early 70s with my Thompson Center Contender barrel…if you are going to shoot.45 Colt, shoot it in a revolver with twist till the muzzle exit….410 shotshell…use a shotgun. Trying to combine the two is pretty much a joke and it just don’t work other than a “selling scam” to the unknowable masses…a big thumbs up 👍👍👍 to your channel my friend! 😎😎😎
Agree with the marketing gimmick for noobs especially since the shot cup doesn't open soon enough for close snake. But if the semi pro were to hand roll gas checked shot or buck, maybe even 45 Mongo, it will work.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say you're guilty of some stinkin' thinkin' on the Grizzly, but I have a different perspective, due to my specific application for this tool. As I've said before, I also have the Bond Arms Grizzly Bear, and the primary reason I bought it was to serve as my snake gun. For that purpose, I load it with #9 shot. But when I come out of the woods and still have the Grizzly on me, I've swapped out either the Hornady .410 Triple Defense or .45LC ammo. The latter round is a 230gr HHP (advertised at 890 fps) made by a Texas company, Triple J Ammunitions. Probably quite comparable to the Remington HTPs you tested. So I carry this, but only secondarily/as a backup for self-defense. Your test of the .410 and the .45LC through this demonstrates that expansion from either one isn't a reasonable expectation. As for penetration, the .45 Colt did better. Since I have both, I'll continue to load both when the Grizzly is with on the streets and not in the woods. You're right, the Griz is too heavy for pocket carry, but since it came with the holster, I carry it that way when I've got it on me. Carried that way, I don't even notice it after a while.
Have same pistol and got 16 inch with a 230 gr XTP bullet using my load of 9.2 Unique which is standard pressure. Best is to use a full wadcutter for penetration as the XTP had little expansion. I'll stick with the .45 Colt. Even at a slow speed that 200-250 grain will keep truckin thru!
I'd definitely invest in a longer barrel, it has potential, but not having that extra rifling and barrel length, that slow burning .45lc can't get that necessary velocity. Minimal the 4.25" barrel. But this video did show me what I wanna carry for the barrel I do have. And for that I thank you
It’s a back up gun at best. If you find yourself on your back and need to make a contact shot. Personally a J frame with 38 spcl was cutters would be a better choice for that.
Wow! That ammo inc really was pitiful. Lol. I was curious about the performance out of this short barrel and you sure answered my questions. Just too short to get up to speed. Great info as always 👍🇺🇸
I bought this gun entirely as a novelty because I dig cowboy action type firearms. I think with some 410 000 buckshot, might actually be a damn decent option for an anti carjacking tool. 🤔 And just remember, energy transfer in most handguns is going to be minimal.....and not really mean anything. According to all my research, it takes a minimum of 500 ft lbs of energy to induce hydrostatic shock. That means that nothing short of decent 357 mag or 10mm will not matter as far as energy transfer. This proves that the 9mm vs 45 vs 40 debate is pointless. You are just poking holes with anything else. Penetration and expansion will determine the size of those holes, but it all comes down to shot placement, ability to get shots on target as well as follow up shots etc.
I agree.i owned a cowboy defender 45colt/410. It was fun but made no sense. Have a hellcat. Weighs less and a lot more serious defense. They are a great fun gun though.
I don't own a Bond Arms Derringer. They do look cool but as you correctly stated the heft is comparable to semi auto firearms that can carry much more ammo. The 45 Colt is an impressive round but not out of that thing.
I can see snake and absolutely last resort/ last stand fire arm. I have a single shot 410/45 Colt. I had it many years and use it fishing for snake protection. probably 20 years ago out of curiosity I shot I think a 225 factory Remington swc at 2 peaces of treated 2 x6 and shot through both at6-8 feet. so by your tests and mine it definitely could be used in self defense close range with a good degree of confidence. better than a butter knife. but honestly I would much rather have a hi point 9 mm as a last stand pistol at home if I can't reach my 357 magnum or 45 acp
Agreed, not for me, I would probably drop it or snag it on my clothes. Another thing if your that close already then you got other problems you need to deal with. No less than a 4.5in. Barrel for me and about 17 rounds. By the way you make me laugh really enjoy the comic relief lol 😆. Thanks for sharing and be safe. 👍🇺🇸👍
Excellent excellent test as usual! And with the clothing barrier, SUPERB !!!!! Now on to the gun…. I think I’d rather carry an alloy 5-shot j-frame .38 spl, or a Beretta 3032 Tomcat (.32ACP) or even a 5-shot NAA .22WMR firearm as a true “get off me” gun. That’s just me though. I inherited a 2-shot Derringer in .38spl. I wouldn’t count on it to save my life and I’ve never ever carried it. It’s just a safe Queen conversation piece. I’m not even sure what brand it is. Maybe “paper weight” brand???? 🤣
I would like to see what the .45acp would do out of one of them, probably much better than the long Colt .45, especially being the shorter bullet and full barrel rifling. The 410 barrel is best with 410 000 buck or the.45 Long Colt CCI snake loads for snakes.
Bond says to stay away from copper only projectiles, and I think I know why. The forcing cone is a sharp ridge, probably shaves copper. I know rifling is a lead magnet but probably best to use #4 or 6 or buck.
No dog in this fight, but its interesting to see what those lil Derringers can do. If you've got more derringers in various calibers, I think an all Derringer video would be a smash w/the range gang......you never, ever, ever see those.
I have shot snakes out to 25 feet with my Grizzly. I use Federal or Winchester or Remington in 7 1/2 shot high brass. It works fine for this purpose. As a defense gun ... well, it is an up close gun ... preferably to the face.
Thank you for the great information you are providing us with. I have come to the conclusion that the best self-defense ammo is the Underwood Xtreme defenders or Xtreme hunters for 45 colt/10 mm. All these rounds mentioned are barrier blind, so heavy clothing should not be an issue. Your Bond Arms Grizzly with that ultra short barell, would do much better with Xtreme penetrator ammo. Rifle ammo for self-defense, I would probably use Controlled Chaos or federal fusion.
Thank you sir. Honestly, after several tests lately, I'm starting to wonder if the Extreme Defender type rounds are the way to go for personal defense in any caliber.🤷♂️
I have a .38 derringer. The thing is big, heavy and pointless, except it is kind of a collectors item due to it's age. And sometimes it is fun to take it out and laugh at it.
I'd say that Ammo Inc round was light loaded for use in Cowboy Action Shooting, but being a TMJ, it wouldn't be legal for the sport, as it requires use of lead bullets, with polymer coatings being permitted (lipstick rounds) The Bond Arms derringers are popular for use in Cowboy Action Shooting derringer side matches.
Never wanted a DERRINGER..heavy ..bulky .only 2 shots that POI of both rounds hit different spots ..must click off crossbolt safety ..then cock ...recover from recoil ...recock .. then you're left with an empty gun that slowed to reload... Rather have a snub nose five or six shot..
These were some really interesting results Tools. I totally agree on using the 410 round if your going to carry this novelty. I thought you'd get some kind of good results but that didn't happen for sure. I think those little guns are so heavy so they can stand up to the wide array of ammo people might put in them. I think a NAA pocket gun in 22 or 22mag would be a better choice than that Bond Arms toy. Be vigilant and always be safe.
I agree on the NAA if for no other reason than the sheer size of this as a backup type gun. My local shop actually has a very cool looking NAA that they transferred from their other location. It's their .22 mag Wasp model. Thing has a little ported barrel and everything.😆
@@ToolsandTargets You definitely have not tested .22 mag out of a super short barrel. I carry the Bond for quick/close draw. But, I carry .357; for now. There are better rounds for this and I will use the 4.5 inch barrel.
@@JohnLloydScharf I wouldn't carry this or an NAA personally with any rounds in either of them. This thing is totally inferior as a main and makes absolutely no sense as a backup when there are far better options than something as heavy as your main carry. It has a purpose as a cool gun for the collection or something you just wanna carry out in the yard for a "snake gun", but that's it in my opinion.🤷♂
As far as the chronograph at close range - we used to put a paper target in front to ‘filter out’ the particulate that would generate erroneous readings…
Next time, can you try using a 45 long colt only barrel? I think you're losing velocity with the 410 barrel cause the gases are escaping around the bullet cause of the bullet diameter is smaller when passing through the 410 chamber til it hits the rifling
I really want to see this done with .38 special. I own a 38 derringer and am extremely curious about ballistics out of the tiny barrel. My opinion is FMJ is probably better out of such a short barrel
I’ve tried. I’ve really tried to justify a reason to carry/own one of these. I think they look very cool. With two shots in it, it weighs about the same as my Scandium/Titanium S&W 340PD J-frame loaded with five shots. It is barely any smaller. And I can fire mine (hammerless) from inside a jacket pocket as fast as I can pull the trigger five times with no chance of the hammer getting snagged on any fabric.
We'll stick with our NAA .22lr...ain't much but it weighs 4.5 ounces...the Bonds are sturdy, but weigh a ton, as much as our EDC...the big point made today is just how different ammo can be in performance...
I agree 100%, that triple defense 410 shot is the only thing I'd use in these little Derringers. That being said, my cowboy 410/45 is one of my favorite little range toys! Great video as always man!
It's definitely a cool range and collection gun.😎👍 Thank you sir.
I'd have to wonder what velocity Triple Defense would produce out of that derringer
At 400 FPS that slug will go right through a human head no problem. .45 is a big hole that does not need to expand to be effective. Anything smaller than .38 will close up but larger than that will bleed. Even with the weak stuff that Derringer is very lethal. Great demonstration thanks for the show!
😎👍
No, sorry you watch too many movies.... 230gr. @ 400fps has around 80ft./lbs energy. Lethal ? Yeah point blank possibly... .45 size and bone density I can guarantee you that will not pass through someone's head. Only thing it is guaranteed to do is to stop them from what they were doing in the first place. People have survived shots to the head. And I can tell you first hand that .45acp 230gr. from a 5" barrel doesn't have the energy to pass through a (not admitting to a crime) head.
@@jaredmouret9723 400fps at impact not muzzle. Yes 230 is probably light. 300 to 400 grain lead more effective.
Too bad you can’t hit shit with this gun. Crappy trigger, useless sights, heavy, awkward reload and bad ergonomics. Amazing they sell 20,000 of these turds a year. Gordon Bond is the consummate salesman
Yeah, it seems like he's moving a bit too fast with information/misinformation. The 45 Colt is a huge bullet and can kill or sever anyone's limbs easily. He's focusing on FPS in error. Bond Arms barrels pack strong rounds and are perfectly fine for self defense. You never want to kill, but we want to stop the threat. Liberty and Hornady make ammo that travel fast in 45 Colt. Yes, 45 colt ammo is expensive, we all know that.
That Ammo Inc was pitiful 😂. The other 2 loads did better than I expected from such a short barrel. Appreciate you Tools. 🇺🇸
Thank you sir. I couldn't believe how weak that Ammo Inc stuff was.
I think the snake Slayer would do a lot better. Longer barrel. I've taken badgers - skunks - barn ducks- lot of gofers & tree rats . I just love mine.
Yeah, this little short barrel doesn't do .45 Colt or .410 any favors.
My "Get off of me!" handgun is a Charter Arms Bulldog 2.5 inch barrel 5 shot double-action revolver loaded with 5 rounds of Speer 44 Special 200 grains Gold Dot hollow point bullets.
Damn son! Save some vagina for the rest of us !
Another great jelly test Brotha , I've been thinking about getting one of those in 9mm for a backup/boot gun ..
Thank you sir.😎👊
I have shot some 45 colt, and my .410 reloads out of my Bond Arms, and man they are a super close up gun, and I have a ton of unburnt powder out of .410 ammo from these. I may try to find a 3 1/2" barrel for mine to try out. not sure it has more rifling or just a 1/2 longer chamber though... I am happy you did this test though. Interesting results with the 45 LC premium type ammo. I got my bond arms more for a novelty, but when I posted it on my channel I was amazed at how many guys said they carry the same model regularly. To me its too bulky and not enough power to carry. I still would not want to be on the muzzle end of it though
Yeah, it's a little brick for sure.😆
T & T, I have a 45 acp bond arm pistol. A very well made gun but it also is really heavy. In 45 acp it kicks like a mule. Not really a useful gun but I have a gun safe full of experiments. T & T love your videos and love your voice. You have a very sellable talent for voice over work. You really should pursue voice over if you think that would be fun...
Thank you sir. Appreciate that. I am drawn to the oddball guns more than the other stuff.😆
I just picked up a Roughneck in 45 ACP with the 2.5 inch barrel. What types of ammo have you tried in yours?
@@ToolsandTargetsMe too LoL ! I just picked up a Roughneck in 45 ACP with a 2.5 inch barrel. I'm thinking it might take the place of my "always" gun- my NAA 22 LR mini revolver.
Thanks again for another great jelly test. I don't see a Bond arms in my future even though I have a safe full of fun guns.
I had to have it because of the bear theme!😆
I thought I’d revisit the discussion of the Bond Arms Grizzly. I just watch your three videos on it again. What I said about it in the comments here 7 months ago I still stand by, with the possible exception of its potential use for pocket carry.
In times past when I carried it, I did so in its holster clipped onto my belt. My Grizz is still primarily my snake gun which I wear when camping/hiking. My primary CCW weapon is my Taurus GX4 in a DeSantis Nemesis (#N38BJE1Z0) pocket holster, so there are brief occasions where I have both guns on me. But since I carry 11+1 with the extra 11-round mag, I’m not likely to ever get down to the point of my “backup” gun.
What I do with this tool back in the city is use it as a car gun. When I’m seated and buckled into either my truck or my wife’s car, accessing the GX4 in my pocket is devilish hard to do, so I keep the Grizzly on the door. In that application, I have a Bond Arms barrel chambered in 9mm, so that’s what it’s loaded with in its car gun mode.
Seven months ago I agreed with you that this is too heavy for pocket carry. But last night I decided to weigh the various guns in my carry rotation, loaded and unloaded, and the results were surprising. My GX4 fully loaded with 115-gr JHP and the Grizzly with the 9mm barrel loaded with 2 rounds of the same ammo weigh the same, *exactly* the same: 23.7 oz.
So while I still don’t pocket carry the Grizzly, I can’t say it’s *too* heavy for pocket carry, since I have no problem carry the GX4.
I wonder if the Ammo Inc was a quality control issue or if they are loading all the 45 colt that weak. Awesome video as always buddy. 👏
Does make ya wonder. It may just not like this short barrel at all.
As a coincidence , just before this , happened to watch another channel gel testing Ammo Inc. 45 Colt , albeit a different 250 gr jacketed bullet .
I'll skip his gel results , but the velocity was approximately 750 fps from 4 inch Revolver .
That's certainly plausible. Lots of modern Era .45 Colt 250gr will run mid 700's .
Short of testing ammo from that same box from a couple of revolvers of " normal " bbl lengths over same chronograph, same day - I'd have to go with that particular power & charge just don't play well with am effective 0.50 inch bbl length .
The too short bbl with .410 length massive freebore is the limiting factor , not the ammunition.
My father in law has that same derringer and I have to say it is kinda cool. I wouldn’t want it for EDC but loaded with shot cartridges it would be damn useful to throw in my pocket when I go out to the barn and need to deal with occasional rats and snakes out there.
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That's why I bought a Bond Arms Mini with fully rifled barrels. It gives it that much more stopping power.
Yeah, this would not be something I'd buy to actually use.
@Tools&Targets Yeah, I mostly carry my S&W 9mm when I want full protection on the job, but these bond arms guns make for great backup guns! I usually use my bond arms stinger chambered in 380 as my preferred BUG when I'm working in especially dangerous areas. It's both compact and very comfortable to carry.
Surprisingly how the ammo inc performed. Hopefully it is due to the short barrel. Your videos and test prove time and time again. Longer the barrel better the performance of the rounds are. Thanks for the video and information.
Yeah, they definitely didn't like this short barrel.😎👍
Hey on a serious note I got some 45 punch yesterday did they expand good when you tested them
ua-cam.com/video/Ts4puTOtVVY/v-deo.html Haven't tested em through cloth yet.👍
ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO AND A NICE TOOL YOU USED. I CARRY A NAA IN MY POCKET . DOESNT TAKE UP MUCH ROOM AT ALL. THANK YOU FOR A GREAT TEST.
I would much rather carry the NAA. This thing is just way too big and heavy to be even a good backup in my opinion. I was actually looking at a NAA Wasp model .22 mag in my local shop earlier. Cool looking little thing.
@@ToolsandTargets I HAVE TWO NAAS. ONE THAT CAME WITH TWO CYLINDERS AND THE OTHER ONE A 22. YOU'LL BE HAPPY WITH ONE FOR SURE, AND GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.
@@ToolsandTargets the best thing NAA did for their mini revolver is make the plastic folding handle, it covers the trigger when closed and opened actually gives you a good grip to make it a viable tool IMO. The original small field hockey stick type handles didn't give you much to hold on to. My dad had one I used to shoot, it was built solidly, but that small handle held it back self defense wise. Buddy of mine got one with the folding handle and wow it improves the tool enormously.
I missed this before T&T but glad I watched it. I have a 3.5" 45 Colt/410 barrel set but never have shot 45 Cclt with it because the barrels it came with are 3" 45 ACP which I figured then, and still do, would be more efficient than the 1.7" of freebore blow by. I will eventually get 3.5" 45 Colt only barrels for it but your tests here show that the 255 grain swc loads I have may do okay in comparison to the old English 455 Webley out of my 3.5" 45/410 set. I expect it to have less felt recoil than my 45 ACP 3". Thanks again for these fun informative videos.
The problem with a cylinder cut to accept 410 shot shells wont allow full obteration of the 45 colt case so you blow alot of pressure past the projectile causing it to go slow
👍👍Thanks tools, I think I’d rather pocket carry a j frame revolver (which I do at times). I appreciate your test you’ve become an ammo testing machine.
Totally agree. Thank you sir.
I’ve seen that Ammo inc on line and didn’t think it would do much . Glad I stayed away. Thanks for the video. I’ve always wondered if these little guns were worth a try.
Thank you again .
Appreciate you checkin it out!😎👍
A friend had one of these in 45 colt and 410, I shot it but decided was not for me, prefer a j frame S&W as a carry the derringer was to heavy for why I wanted it as a pocket gun
The 45 Colt is a great CCW caliber though I believe just there are no good revolvers made for easy carry , that along with the 44 Special are both good self defense calibers
Agreed. It's a cool little gun but definitely not the best option to carry.
About the only thing small is the Charter arms PUG in .44 spl. Years ago S&W made a 3" .45LC Mountain gun or Lew Horton special edition don't remember which. But a N frame is no pocket gun. I have one .41 magnum and it handles very well.
Good stuff have you done any tests with 45 colt in any longer barrels like a single action army or anything? I have some of those remington hollow points I carry in a few on mine, would be curious to see how they do in longer barrels.
I've done a few things but not with any really good ammo. Need to do some good .45 Colt testing.
I’d be kinda worried about firing that ammo Inc.. dang things might not manage to even push the projectile out the barrel and get one stuck in there, literally! Lol. Personally, those bond arms are cool but would be just about at the very bottom of my list for self defense tools… that being said, if an assailant was under 5 or 6 feet away from me and it was the absolute last resort, that little thing might just save someone’s life in that last resort defense type situation- moving slower than slow but at least .45 doesn’t shrink! Great video sir, have a good one
Thank you sir. It was definitely some light stuff.
Are you trying to kill someone or just defend yourself? Some of these comments are a bit disturbing. Most times, the powerful blast sound from one of these (or any gun) will scare your attacker away.
I don't know if Underwood still makes them or not, but I have some full Wadcutter 45 Colt, and you talk about major damage. It produces good penetration, and damage on par with any 45 Colt hollow point out of my 4 1/2inch Sing Action. The nose of the bullet is the same size as the rest. One solid cylinder
They probably do. I have some other good .45 Colt stuff I need to test out too. Gonna run it out of something that better shows the potential though.😆
@ToolsandTargets Nice. I checked their website, they still make it. 26 bucks a box. 45 Colt is one of my favorite cartridges. Not necessarily for carrying, but them hard cast are nice in the woods.
i have b.a. derringer frames, but all the original gen2, not the lesser finished rough models, and barrels in most calibers. used are good deals since stoutly built but little shot. pricey niche pieces indeed, but we all need just one indulgence. extra barrels useful during ammo droughts for ammo scrounging and convenient holiday self-gifts. always use long grips. my winter afternoon walk ccw is a 4” b.a., loaded with 45lc lrn or 45schofield fmj, with trigger guard removed for gloved hands operation. some 410pdx rounds in a speedstrip. in my locale, with snow on the ground, it works…for me.
I have a few of these in different callibers I would never carry them for self defense they are range toys thats it Stay Safe and God Bless 🙏🙏
They're definitely cool little guns.😎👍
The sun's going down it's getting cold the winds blowing there's a rock in my shoe haha just playing I love your Channel
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Great review, and where are you from? You sound exactly like a friend of mine here in NC. Your voices are identical!
If you want to see fancy shooting for 45 Derringer look up Bob Munden Bond Arms. He used a 45 Colt only 3" so his 255 grain lead stabilized. 75 yards, two shots up close two ballons. Card shooting.
Very interesting results. I will never by ammo inc again. I have only had problems. Its good that you verified how junk that ammo is.
Crazy weak loaded.
The NAA 5 shot .22 belt buckle revolver is looking up! Great job as usual!
I saw a very cool little Wasp model NAA .22 mag at my local shop earlier today.😆
@@ToolsandTargets Iv always wanted to buy a wasp! They used to skeletonize the hammer but not anymore you can only get those used due to them having a breaking problem but of all the naa revolvers Iv always had an eye on the wasp.
@@nickshowsstuff435 It's even got a little baby bead sight up front!😆
@@ToolsandTargets BROTHER! I know I’m telling you it’s the one! 😂
I really expected the Underwood to do much more !!! I thought we would see some good plumes from it. Would like to see a Extreme Defender or a Federal Punch !!!
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Interesting! That being a .45 and .410 gun with all that bullet jump, I have to wonder how much gas blows past the bullet. Too bad nobody makes a hollow base wadcutter for .45 like they do for .38 special. I share the opinion of most that those are primarily range toys. If I was to carry one for a defensive backup gun, I’d choose a short cartridge and get as much rifled barrel as possible, say .45 ACP or 9mm.
Yep, this is the most impractical barrel choice if you actually intend to use it.
This informative review on a gun ironically became a bit of comedy for me. Glad that we live in a time where 9mm semi autos are commonplace carry guns since self defense with Derringers would be an experience...
Aint that the truth!😂
Well, if it were the old west and I was in a poker game where the guy across from me was cheating, the Derringer it is.
Some good info tools ...funny about the ammo inc ..I had a similar thing happen last year ..a buddy brought over a 460 s&w mag and some sellier &Bellot ammo ...it felt like shooting a 357 mag ...way under powered ..
It's a shame how much weak stuff from several different brands I've run across in the last several months.
Yeah it's nuts ..trying to save money by skimping on the powder ..my quess
A few decades back I bought a budget brand derringer (not Bond). Got it in .38 Spl. Quickly figured out it was only a range toy of very limited utility. Felt bad when I sold it. Actually took the guy out and had him shot a few rounds through it first. He thought it was cool anyway, so it went home with him.
They're cool to have in a collection if you have plenty of other guns for sure.😎👍
Good to know about that Ammo Inc fodder. I only have about 500 rounds of that trash. Hope I don't get any squib loads. Shooting them from my 7 1/2-inch Ruger New Model Blackhawk. Sure do hope none of them get stuck in the pipe. Thanks again.
At least they should get a little more velocity there. It would be different if they were marketed as cowboy loads but they're TMJ. Even the Armscor cowboy stuff was hotter.😆
So the question is are you better off with a .25 auto, or the Bond arms at .45 ...
Need to test some Underwood Extreme Defender in that weapon.
Always test your ammo and weapon....... even your hammer!
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I have 2 derringers, neither are bond arms, 1 is in .410 45 Colt the other in .32 h&r mag, and you really have to practice with those derringers to get good. There is a gun store here in planet of the apes, st.l that sold every candy apple red .22lr cobra arms derringer they got in, mostly to broads.
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I carry hard cast 200RNFP in Cowboy 45 Special. Same load for my 3" barrel Blackhawk.
The lesson I'll take from this is that it's best to skip hollow points for this pistol. They won't expand anyway, so don't bother wasting your money. This is a last ditch effort to get out of a bad situation gun. There certainly are alot better options out there, but not a bad thing to have when things go sideways on you.
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Lincoln was shot with a black powder .44 caliber version using a .41 caliber ball. The cowboy versions are made to make better holes in paper. I think a 140 grain at full PSI would do the job of putting a hole in a spine.
Thank you..
Interesting video. There is no way I'd want to depend on that tool, regardless of the ammo.
Agreed. It would be a no other choice use case for me.
Having such a short barrel ya can’t expect much. Better off with the 007 Walther PPK.
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Yep😆
I've had a derringer for years but now I'm trading it off. For about the same size and weight I can carry a Taurus 856 which has six shot capacity instead of two. Just makes more sense to me.
That's my number one issue with this as far as an actual carry gun. It's heavier and nearly as big as my 365 plus much less user friendly. It just doesn't make sense as a main carry or backup for me.
You could probably see the Ammo Inc travel through the air
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The bad guy might even be able to catch it in his hand before it got to him, or just step aside while it was in transit.
How's the recoil vs the 32acp tomcat?
In your hands it looks to have basically zero recoil shooting that .45 cal 😮
I ask because I'm looking for a pocket carry and I'm stuck between the 32acp tomcat or the bonds arms .45 colt /410
tomcat has almost 0 recoil
Don’t recall a slug penetrating less then the Ammo Inc round. If I was going to carry the Bond which I wouldn’t, the 410 buckshot would work the best. At least the 45 Colt makes big holes. Thanks for the video Tools!
Appreciate ya, my friend!
I like the damage from the JHP (tumbling seems to always be better than expansion anyway, at least with lower speed bullets). BUT ... man it was a lot more shallow in penetration than I figured it would be! The Keith-style semi-wadcutter might be a tad much, but then again, at least you know it's gonna reach the plumbing, if you know what I mean. Have you noticed either being predictably accurate from that derringer? Years back I was fooling around with an American Derringer Corp. .45/.410 and got pretty decent accuracy. I didn't shoot past 10 yards but each barrel grouped about thumb-sized groups with PMC (kinda weak and crappy) .45 Colt, each group about 3" apart vertically.
I used to have an ADC derringer in .357 magnum and had to qualify with it to carry it as a BUG/OD weapon. That course of fire was 5 at 15 yards, 10 rounds from 5 yards, and 10 rounds in draw-and-fire one-handed strings from one yard. I always qualified (a few other local LEOs had .45/.410 derringers and did okay with them, too using .45 Colt).
Haven't honestly shot it for any sort of accuracy testing since I bought it. I just liked the grizzly bear theme.😆
Have you ever tried cardboard blast baffles for the Chrono? You shoot through a small window and the cardboard catches a lot of the unburned powder and blast wave that causes errors.
I'll have to keep that in mind if I get the urge to test this thing some more.😎👍
We appreciate all that you do!
👍 Still experimenting with what 45 ammo my new Ruger Vaquero likes ! Nice timing on this video for me !
I have a few other .45 Colt rounds I wanna test, but I think I'll use some longer barrels for sure.😆
@@ToolsandTargets Mine is the 5 1/4 inch . 7 1/4 seemed a bit long to me !
I agree that for the money, weight and performance, there's a lot better options out there. That being said, I'm surely not volunteering to get hit with it. Take care!
Me either.😎👊
I "long listed" on of these BA Grizzlys, because honestly I only see myself getting into a conflict at 'bad breath distance'......then I Actually held one, OMG it's a lead weight, for 2 shots....there are Many better choices CCW.
That big Underwood pushing a half inch. rathole in pretty deep would hurt bad...lol. nice show and great narration as usual....
Thank you sir.😎👍
Would an shorter round , like 380 , 32acp , 22short , etc , perform better from an equivalent length barrel and same style of gun than 45 colt , 357 mag , and etc ?
This short barrel is gonna handicap any caliber but the full rifling of a dedicated caliber barrel would definitely help.
I think carrying a pocket full of chunking rocks would be better than that Ammo, Inc. junk. The others are actually pretty impressive considering you’ve got almost no barrel on that derringer. Always interesting tests here👍.
Ammo Inc was some weak stuff for sure.😎👍
Big hoss you are truly a credit to the gun community. Thanks for doing what you do.
Appreciate that, my friend!
My disappointment with anything attempting to combine anything .410 with the .45 Colt goes back to the early 70s with my Thompson Center Contender barrel…if you are going to shoot.45 Colt, shoot it in a revolver with twist till the muzzle exit….410 shotshell…use a shotgun. Trying to combine the two is pretty much a joke and it just don’t work other than a “selling scam” to the unknowable masses…a big thumbs up 👍👍👍 to your channel my friend! 😎😎😎
Yep, definitely just collection guns for me. Thank you sir.😎👍
Agree with the marketing gimmick for noobs especially since the shot cup doesn't open soon enough for close snake. But if the semi pro were to hand roll gas checked shot or buck, maybe even 45 Mongo, it will work.
You're just plain wrong man. A 410 shotshell shoots fine in BondArms. No need for any shotgun and stuff. Are you guys intentional idiots?
.45 colt yesssss Sirrrrrrr... The Jelly most definitely going to feel it lol love these videos & channel.. Thanks for sharing it with us Tools 👊
It felt a tickle from the Ammo inc.😆
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say you're guilty of some stinkin' thinkin' on the Grizzly, but I have a different perspective, due to my specific application for this tool.
As I've said before, I also have the Bond Arms Grizzly Bear, and the primary reason I bought it was to serve as my snake gun. For that purpose, I load it with #9 shot.
But when I come out of the woods and still have the Grizzly on me, I've swapped out either the Hornady .410 Triple Defense or .45LC ammo. The latter round is a 230gr HHP (advertised at 890 fps) made by a Texas company, Triple J Ammunitions. Probably quite comparable to the Remington HTPs you tested.
So I carry this, but only secondarily/as a backup for self-defense. Your test of the .410 and the .45LC through this demonstrates that expansion from either one isn't a reasonable expectation. As for penetration, the .45 Colt did better. Since I have both, I'll continue to load both when the Grizzly is with on the streets and not in the woods.
You're right, the Griz is too heavy for pocket carry, but since it came with the holster, I carry it that way when I've got it on me. Carried that way, I don't even notice it after a while.
The little holster is part of what sold me on this one.😎👍
Have same pistol and got 16 inch with a 230 gr XTP bullet using my load of 9.2 Unique which is standard pressure. Best is to use a full wadcutter for penetration as the XTP had little expansion. I'll stick with the .45 Colt. Even at a slow speed that 200-250 grain will keep truckin thru!
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I'd definitely invest in a longer barrel, it has potential, but not having that extra rifling and barrel length, that slow burning .45lc can't get that necessary velocity. Minimal the 4.25" barrel. But this video did show me what I wanna carry for the barrel I do have. And for that I thank you
Yeah, I really consider it a novelty in this chambering with such a short barrel.😎👍
My sons Red Ryder BB gun shoots bout that fast
It'll shoot your eye out!
It’s always exciting to see a new upload from Tools&Targets. Keep them coming man!!
Thank you sir!😎👊
GREAT VIDEO TOOL ... !!!! I THINK .. ? ? STICK WITH THE 410 AMMO.. ...!!! DOUBLE G. HERE ...!!!!!!!
Thank you sir. Have a great weekend!
It’s a back up gun at best. If you find yourself on your back and need to make a contact shot. Personally a J frame with 38 spcl was cutters would be a better choice for that.
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Wow! That ammo inc really was pitiful. Lol. I was curious about the performance out of this short barrel and you sure answered my questions. Just too short to get up to speed. Great info as always 👍🇺🇸
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Awesome. Could have gone Bonus+ by throwing in one of the Armscor too 🤠👍
I started to. I would have just used those if I knew these Ammo Inc were so weak.😆
@@ToolsandTargets I've got a box of Ammo Inc TMC in 45acp. You've convinced me to just use the whole box at the range soon.
I bought this gun entirely as a novelty because I dig cowboy action type firearms. I think with some 410 000 buckshot, might actually be a damn decent option for an anti carjacking tool. 🤔
And just remember, energy transfer in most handguns is going to be minimal.....and not really mean anything. According to all my research, it takes a minimum of 500 ft lbs of energy to induce hydrostatic shock. That means that nothing short of decent 357 mag or 10mm will not matter as far as energy transfer.
This proves that the 9mm vs 45 vs 40 debate is pointless.
You are just poking holes with anything else. Penetration and expansion will determine the size of those holes, but it all comes down to shot placement, ability to get shots on target as well as follow up shots etc.
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I agree.i owned a cowboy defender 45colt/410. It was fun but made no sense. Have a hellcat. Weighs less and a lot more serious defense. They are a great fun gun though.
Wouldn't mind a little over-under like this as a nice little boot gun as a back up
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Wow that was real info right here, is good to know how everything will work!
Thank you sir. Hope you have a nice wekend!
I don't own a Bond Arms Derringer. They do look cool but as you correctly stated the heft is comparable to semi auto firearms that can carry much more ammo. The 45 Colt is an impressive round but not out of that thing.
Yeah, it's definitely just a "look at this cool little gun" kinda thing for me.😎👍
I can see snake and absolutely last resort/ last stand fire arm. I have a single shot 410/45 Colt. I had it many years and use it fishing for snake protection. probably 20 years ago out of curiosity I shot I think a 225 factory Remington swc at 2 peaces of treated 2 x6 and shot through both at6-8 feet. so by your tests and mine it definitely could be used in self defense close range with a good degree of confidence. better than a butter knife. but honestly I would much rather have a hi point 9 mm as a last stand pistol at home if I can't reach my 357 magnum or 45 acp
Absolutely.😎👍
Agreed, not for me, I would probably drop it or snag it on my clothes. Another thing if your that close already then you got other problems you need to deal with. No less than a 4.5in. Barrel for me and about 17 rounds. By the way you make me laugh really enjoy the comic relief lol 😆. Thanks for sharing and be safe. 👍🇺🇸👍
Appreciate ya, brother!😎👊
Excellent excellent test as usual! And with the clothing barrier, SUPERB !!!!! Now on to the gun…. I think I’d rather carry an alloy 5-shot j-frame .38 spl, or a Beretta 3032 Tomcat (.32ACP) or even a 5-shot NAA .22WMR firearm as a true “get off me” gun. That’s just me though. I inherited a 2-shot Derringer in .38spl. I wouldn’t count on it to save my life and I’ve never ever carried it. It’s just a safe Queen conversation piece. I’m not even sure what brand it is. Maybe “paper weight” brand???? 🤣
Thank you sir. The weight and chunk of this thing totally kills it as a backup gun for me. I got it mainly because of the cool bear theme on it.😂
TOOLS!!! I'm interested in that hollow point! Watching your tests now :)
I like the tumble on the HTP tho. Hmmm on expansion. That gun is so tiny!! Lol
This little thing didn't have the juice for it.😆
@@ToolsandTargets lol.
I would like to see what the .45acp would do out of one of them, probably much better than the long Colt .45, especially being the shorter bullet and full barrel rifling. The 410 barrel is best with 410 000 buck or the.45 Long Colt CCI snake loads for snakes.
Thanks for another cool video. That was definitely unimpressive. 😂
😂 For sure!
Great job tools good info on that short barrel 👍
Thank you sir.😎👊
Just got the Bond Arms Old Glory 45 and 410, with 3.5 inch barrel. Can’t wait to give it a “shot” !
I love the look of em.😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets Thanks for the jelly test ! The Underwood did well !
Bond says to stay away from copper only projectiles, and I think I know why. The forcing cone is a sharp ridge, probably shaves copper. I know rifling is a lead magnet but probably best to use #4 or 6 or buck.
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Well that was a fail! HaHa!! Almost anything is better than that Derringer. Great test as usual Sir, Thanks. 👍🏻😎
😂 Poor Grizzly. Thank you sir
No dog in this fight, but its interesting to see what those lil Derringers can do. If you've got more derringers in various calibers, I think an all Derringer video would be a smash w/the range gang......you never, ever, ever see those.
I have thought about getting more barrels for this one but they sure aint cheap.
I have shot snakes out to 25 feet with my Grizzly. I use Federal or Winchester or Remington in 7 1/2 shot high brass. It works fine for this purpose. As a defense gun ... well, it is an up close gun ... preferably to the face.
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Thank you for the great information you are providing us with. I have come to the conclusion that the best self-defense ammo is the Underwood Xtreme defenders or Xtreme hunters for
45 colt/10 mm. All these rounds mentioned are barrier blind, so heavy clothing should not be an issue. Your Bond Arms Grizzly with that ultra short barell, would do much better with Xtreme penetrator ammo. Rifle ammo for self-defense, I would probably use Controlled Chaos or federal fusion.
Thank you sir. Honestly, after several tests lately, I'm starting to wonder if the Extreme Defender type rounds are the way to go for personal defense in any caliber.🤷♂️
Cool test and confirms exactly what you say , not a good choice for edc ! thanks for another entertaining video Brother !
Thank you sir.😎👊
I have a .38 derringer. The thing is big, heavy and pointless, except it is kind of a collectors item due to it's age. And sometimes it is fun to take it out and laugh at it.
Yep, I definitely like this one but I realize what it can and can't do well.
I'd say that Ammo Inc round was light loaded for use in Cowboy Action Shooting, but being a TMJ, it wouldn't be legal for the sport, as it requires use of lead bullets, with polymer coatings being permitted (lipstick rounds)
The Bond Arms derringers are popular for use in Cowboy Action Shooting derringer side matches.
Yeah, I picked that TMJ to use specifically because I figured it wouldn't be loaded weaker like cowboy stuff.🤷♂️
Never wanted a DERRINGER..heavy ..bulky .only 2 shots that POI of both rounds hit different spots ..must click off crossbolt safety ..then cock ...recover from recoil ...recock .. then you're left with an empty gun that slowed to reload... Rather have a snub nose five or six shot..
Yeah, I just got this one for the cool grizzly bear theme of it.😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets 🐻🤣
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I agree with you on all accounts. To me those are just for range fun
Yup😎👍
These were some really interesting results Tools. I totally agree on using the 410 round if your going to carry this novelty. I thought you'd get some kind of good results but that didn't happen for sure. I think those little guns are so heavy so they can stand up to the wide array of ammo people might put in them. I think a NAA pocket gun in 22 or 22mag would be a better choice than that Bond Arms toy.
Be vigilant and always be safe.
I agree on the NAA if for no other reason than the sheer size of this as a backup type gun. My local shop actually has a very cool looking NAA that they transferred from their other location. It's their .22 mag Wasp model. Thing has a little ported barrel and everything.😆
A barrel this short in 22 mag will not have near the muzzle energy.
@@ToolsandTargets You definitely have not tested .22 mag out of a super short barrel. I carry the Bond for quick/close draw. But, I carry .357; for now. There are better rounds for this and I will use the 4.5 inch barrel.
@@JohnLloydScharf I wouldn't carry this or an NAA personally with any rounds in either of them. This thing is totally inferior as a main and makes absolutely no sense as a backup when there are far better options than something as heavy as your main carry. It has a purpose as a cool gun for the collection or something you just wanna carry out in the yard for a "snake gun", but that's it in my opinion.🤷♂
As far as the chronograph at close range - we used to put a paper target in front to ‘filter out’ the particulate that would generate erroneous readings…
Next time, can you try using a 45 long colt only barrel? I think you're losing velocity with the 410 barrel cause the gases are escaping around the bullet cause of the bullet diameter is smaller when passing through the 410 chamber til it hits the rifling
No doubt that this gun is destroying the ballistics of the round.
Cool little gun but i'd take a ruger lcp in 380. Over this all day long. Good test as usual!
As much of a piece of garbage as I think the LCP is, even I would take it over this for any serious use.
I really want to see this done with .38 special. I own a 38 derringer and am extremely curious about ballistics out of the tiny barrel. My opinion is FMJ is probably better out of such a short barrel
I’ve tried. I’ve really tried to justify a reason to carry/own one of these. I think they look very cool. With two shots in it, it weighs about the same as my Scandium/Titanium S&W 340PD J-frame loaded with five shots. It is barely any smaller. And I can fire mine (hammerless) from inside a jacket pocket as fast as I can pull the trigger five times with no chance of the hammer getting snagged on any fabric.
Have you done buffalo bore v. Underwood .45lc? if not could you give it some thought? 👍
I haven't but I do need to order some stuff from Buffalo Bore.😎👍
Id rather have a snub 38
Definitely
We'll stick with our NAA .22lr...ain't much but it weighs 4.5 ounces...the Bonds are sturdy, but weigh a ton, as much as our EDC...the big point made today is just how different ammo can be in performance...
Don't blame ya. This thing is 2 ounces heavier than my 365.😆
You're the hardest working man in the binness
Appreciate ya!😎👊
That ballistic gel is super expensive. Holy moly
It definitely aint cheap.