Well There's Your Problem | Episode 58: The Station Nightclub Fire
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- your life has value, so don't go to nightclubs
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Disliked for crypto hate.
You’re a moodle fan
Dude, this came out just an hour ago, give other people a chance to get pinned!
Crypto is literally burning MW to generation fictional money you cannot exchange for goods without going through an exchange.
And it consumes more power than small countries. Its a waste time and energy.
Woohoo pinned comment!
@@CommieGIR right because Fiat money isn't fictional. also simply not true that you can't buy goods without exchanging it
I used to work at a concert venue and this was literally the reason there were giant signs backstage that read “No Pyro Ever”
Unless both the venue and the artist can afford to regularly hire fire safety consultants for shows, best bet is for the venue and artist to avoid using any kind of fire or explosives
When I worked in a music venue and I did fire marshal training they made us watch footage from this fire because they said it was important to know what is at stake if you ignore fire hazards, hesitate in an emergency etc. Twelve years later it's still with me.
Patreon has exit surveys? Oh, shit. 😬
Wooh!!
Great ass channel!
Reasons for leaving: hating the dutch
I just checked mine. They weren't too bad. Most of them just said:
"Reason for leaving: Liam"
@@yam1989 it's a harmless Christmas tradition!
I just temporarily canceled my patreonage. I filled in: lack of transphobia.
This is by far the *least* egregious part, but I've never had the expertise to contribute before, SO!
Acoustic foam is designed to stop sound reflections, not sound itself. To make a boring story short, while it improves the sound inside a room it does essentially nothing to stop sound leaving a room. It also only really works on high frequencies, so if you have something very loud and very boomy - say, for example, a nightclub PA - then you're gonna need a lot more than some foam tiles on the walls. Ironically, the crowd of people standing in the nightclub would have done more to improve the sound than the tiles.
TL;DR: The dude didn't even cheap out on the right thing.
Yup really need pure mass to soundproof a space..
haha no, it's designed to diffuse sound and thus works better on high frequencies that don't have enough energy to push its structure around. You can buy thick fire-proof insulation batting that will even disrupt rock solid 30Hz hammering tho.
WTF is wrong with you people!!!!
The world does not need soundproofing.
I fuckin love being able to sit in my bath and have a sonically generated tsunami rise from my navel to my nipples every time the club 3 miles away drops a bass kick ....... it sounds like ....... FREEDOM :P
@@Blowfeld20k (salute smilie goes here) 'MERICA!
@@Blowfeld20k American fire engine sirens and train horns, YUHHH
As a musician who's played in new england clubs and also "DIY" music scenes/venues, I cannot overstate how entirely desensitized musicians and concert goers are to clearly unsafe conditions (not mention inaccessibility which is a whole other massive problem.) Musicians in the states in general will put up with basically anything, myself included, in order to play and host shows. The grind of trying to play shows in the low tier clubs and bars is awful and demoralizing and is basically a dead end for most. Many people like myself refuse to "pay to play" at these grubby establishments or be tasked with selling tickets by them, but plenty of others will do that sort of thing. This situation will leave many artists to opt for finding more extreme or eccentric ways to reach an audience and make connections.
In my 20s I used to run a DIY venue out of my basement with my roomates, which for those who aren't aware is actually a very common practice. Sometimes these venues are run out of rented "studios" in neglected warehouses run by absent slumlords, but often times they are just in people's houses (also usually rented from absent slumlords.) Bands will often tour the country playing in such places, and depending on the kind of music you do, it's often necessary to build up a "buzz" enough to get the clout and personal connections to play more legit venues or get record deals. It's also easier playing DIY circuits because they usually have regular enthusiastic supportive communities and patrons who donate to the touring acts specifically. The people running the DIY venues are often artists themselves, and the connections they make facilitate their own tours. With the lack of any real oversight, they also don't have to invest much in the thing besides having a PA and mics. All of this to say my "venue" was much more of a death trap than The Station Nightclub.
Our main performance area, like Station, was sound-treated with egg crates (taken from my restaurant job), but was a much smaller, mustier place, and once we started having better known bands in there would fill up quickly. The "exits" from that space were the staircase up to our kitchen (which then lead to the foyer), or a door to the left of the stage area, into the room with the water heater which had a door to the garage. We had lots of signs showing people where to go, and we were much better about security than most, but the whole thing was insane on its face, even with all of our "safe space" monitoring. The thing was, we played and attended a bunch of basements exactly like ours, and in that context we actually kind of prided ourselves on being responsible adroit mild-mannered hosts. That's just what that whole subculture is accustomed to. Artists don't have a lot of good avenues and will just funnel into weird dark places. We stopped having shows after we started smelling weird odors around the electrical sockets one night, and started discussing having only small acoustic shows in the kitchen. After the Oakland Ghost Ship fire was all over the news (now there's an episode recommendation!) a lot of DIY spots decided to lay low for a hot minute and figure out their own safety procedures, but we never did shows again. Years later I went to someone else's basement and saw a now-famous indie band where the singer got shocked in the face from her mic over and over.
Seconding a Ghost Ship Fire episode.
I remember being 18 years old and plugging my practice gear in and seeing an outlet with no spot for the ground and just snapping it off the plug. And then I would start singing and wondering why my lips were getting the tingles hahaha. Lesson learned. Don’t mess around with safety when it comes to electricity. Unless your coworker is doing unauthorized work on an electrical meter and you have a 2 x 4 handy just in case his screwdriver hits the live wire so you can give him a good whack to separate him from riding the lightning. (Yes this was what I was told to do once or twice when on a construction job that involved my foreman becoming a novice electrician.)
Also fuck pay to play!!!!
Safety thiiiiiird right here.
This explains that weird viral video of a hardcore band playing in a Denny's
"One of the best ways to avoid a problem is to run away from it. This is why building codes make requirements for means of egress"
This is a beautiful succinct way of putting it.
If it sucks, hit da bricks.
Job interviewer: ". . . So, why did you leave your last job?"
"The French Air Force accidently bombed my workstation while practicing bombing my workplace."
"Welcome to Assad&Co. Chemicals. You'll feel right at home."
"You can't use this exit, it's for band members only."
Well what are you going to do, throw me out?
As a guard, in case of a fire, everyone can get their a** out even if I lose my job later. 👍 Lives before paychecks.
"OMG, this lesbian bar doesn't have any fire exits!"
No, he'll throw you back in, into the fire.
The guy in the jeans is the band manager; not Jack Russell.
Dune ass vibes "sitting with your back against a wall", just in case of harkonnen attack
Two new genders: “yay, Liam!” and “Reason for Leaving: Liam”
I don't think we should dismiss Liam Fluidity.
This will surely be an uplifting way to start my morning
Sometimes I just need my cynicism matched
Lol
Just think of all the heaven bound souls! /s
Part of the perfect morning routine
The unexpected fire alarm startled my cats, who fled into the bedroom. Thank you for the fire drill. In the event of a real fire, I am now prepared to locate my pets and evacuate them safely.
I somehow misread that first headline as “NASA puts a car on Mars before Liam” and got so excited to learn what the fuck Liam was planning with his van. I’m just disappointed now. :(
That is a way better headline
Can't wait for that bonus episode
Ah yes, the Great White show. I remember when this happened and the more I learned, then, the angrier I got. I think that was the point I switched from 'keep your regulations out of my life' to 'yes please more safety regulations and stricter enforcement while we're at it'.
Safety regulations are written in death and blood.
I understand the sentiment in general + loathe heavy-handed regulation myself... but yeah, the bare basics are crucial.
It is unconscionable to me that place didn't have a basic sprinkler system... I have read studies showed that would've bought enough time for everyone to safely leave the building. As bad as the rest was, that alone would've made a literal life-or-death difference. 😡😥
@@mariehelena2364 Yes, that's where my feelings lie. If you sacrifice lives/health to make money, I spit on the person sacrificing those. I just went through a medical event. I have insurance, all is good. For a minute, it was life-death, and afterwards I wanted it to have killed me. All my worries, my responsibilities, erased. I'm better now and ready to face the world again, I'm home, I'm healing and growing stronger.
This stuff is hard, and nobody should be forcing it from the outside. Fuck them TO DEATH.
@@Debilitator47 Damn! You've been through some real hell... I'm glad to hear you've conquered the brunt of it (with the understanding these things aren't always easily done). Good for you. 🙂
Anyone who doesn't think regulations are necessary has had a sheltered life, but at least you learned
"The air force bombed my machine" is just the next evolution of the dog ate my homework
not only that, it's the final one
special guest: Alice's fire alarm
spoiler, please. Now I am going to be anxious while they describe anxiety disorder experiences waiting for a god damn fire alarm. Will she be okay? Is there going to be significant fire damage? Is this just Glaswegian hooligans mucking about?
@@jamesbarels469It was just noise for a bit and no consequence.
@@eloisemason , it is a very effective pitch, I will say that.
Scared the shit out of me! Sounded real through my car speakers
@@pineapplepizza27 , just imagine how horrible it would have sounded through Liam's mic.
This is still the go-to case study in the importance of crowd management and crowd control rules. I worked with an MD who was at the receiving facility for this event who had some truly fascinating and insightful lessons learned at a triage and rapid burn treatment level. This some horrific cursed knowledge everyone should have.
"horrific curse knowledge everyone should have"?
Great, now I have to throw out my collection of fantasy and horror books built on the opposite premise.
For Latin-America the tragedy of Cromañon is its equivalent, probably.
I wanna know the lessons!
@@nicolasparadoja1443 Or maybe the Kiss nightclub fire, which was even deadlier, and even stupider, and also happened a decade after the Cromañon fire; proving, once again, that humans might learn from their mistakes, but only after they've been repeated ad nauseam.
1:00:30- Read the witness statement of Bill Long. Ty didn't die rescuing a guitar. He and Bill tried to break the windows in the greenhouse area. Since most of the panes were plexiglass instead of glass, they didn't break. Bill made it out with severe burns (He's seen on the footage looking like a zombie who passes in front of Butler) and Ty did NOT make it out.
Evidently trolls spread the myth about Longley to make fun of the band soon after the fire And it's been bouncing around ever since
@@ryanjacobson2508 people weren't being dismissed as trolls back then though
I can't stress this enough. Please do NOT look up the video of this fire. It's very messed up. Even if your feel like you could handle it, just don't. It's not worth it.
this just makes me want to look it up
@@archangel4597 Well I just did, and well... I'm a stupid morbid masochist and I can't say that I *regret* it, it certainly hasn't left me unaffected. By all means though, if you feel up to seeing people stacked up horizontally at the doors like humans are not meant to be, and then a couple minutes later seeing nothing but flames pouring out...
It's up there with the jonestown tape as far as shit that I can't forget, absolutely awful
Thanks, duly noted :/
If you feel you really must watch it (I did right after it happened) I suggest you turn the sound off. The visual is bad enough, but the screaming is bone chilling.
I remember this. To anyone who doesn't already know: There is footage of this whole event unfolding, and I highly suggest you NEVER WATCH IT, unless you want to be terrified of all public venues for the rest of your life. Quick PSA: Know your fire exits.
EDIT: I posted this before I had gotten to the point in the video where they mention the footage, but I've seen it, Alice has also apparently seen it, and I'm telling you, she's right and you don't want to watch it. (48:08) Although if you've ever done fire safety stuff you've probably already seen it, as some have pointed out in the comments.
The most horrifying thing about that footage is just how little it actually shows once the cameraman is outside. With the knowledge of what is actually happening just off camera or just behind some of the smoke and flames you can't see through combined with the sounds (and how the sounds stop), it's downright chilling.
I watched one thanks to nexpo, and yeah is mind-boggling how people wait untill things get really bad for them to start exiting
Agreed. Don’t make the mistake of morbid curiosity. It is truly traumatizing.
It's not that bad. 🙄
@@rebeccatrishel
You've convinced me!
I saw the title "Nightclub Fire" and immediately thought " I don't remember exactly which nighclub fire this one was, but I'm sure it'll be horrible."
Not sure how they were going to manage a cool and uplifting nightclub fire tbh
@@petraoleum5816 Oh, very true, I just meant I remember at least four 'hundreds of people burned to death in nightclub' incidents happening in the last twenty years or so.
I cannot believe you did a nightclub episode without Riley, he’s going to be devastated about this.
Which is exactly why they couldn’t have Riley on.
Der Funkybeats shall never be the same
You can't set a club on fire if it's a massive concrete/steel factory complex.
- This post made by Mixed-Use Gang.
They can do the coconut Grove next
Liam, 2021: "Man was not meant to fly. If we were, we'd have wings."
Flanders and Swann, 1963: "If God had intended us to fly, he'd never have given us railways."
Has there been a better method of transport for committing genocide than trains? This is where you really learn the discipline of keeping the trains running on time.
Various Europeans at certain points in history, "If God had intended us to live with People X, he'd never have given us railways."
"If God had meant for us to fly, He would not have given us the railway."
This was the exact scenario used by the firefighters to scare us for our annual safety talk in college. "If you can't find a second exit at the party, have a game plan for making one."
A warning for people who don't want to accidentally watch the event footage: double check your youtube autoplay.
I saw it a few years back when it came up after I'd watched a series of videos on fire-related disasters and I did not know what it was. It's not something you should be watching unprepared, and I will never be able to forget it.
It's genuinely horrific, especially the front door.
For real. The one part where they video pans to the side and back of the nightclub, and the audio picks up a god awful shriek. I’ve never been able to get that shriek out of my head. It might be one of the top 5 things I’ve seen that I can’t shake.
True, it might ruin your dinner. It will stick with you.
@@doctorgravel8572 Speaking as a veteran who has seen combat: The scene at the front door is nightmare fuel.
Literally never felt more solidarity with Alice than when she mentioned Moodle and then immediately followed up with dunking it into the earth’s core
More often than not the Moodle site was down when I needed to use it, it seems.
Ty Longley never reentered the club. He leapt off the stage to join his pal Bill Long (road manager of the opening band, Trip) and had his guitar with him. Long tells the whole story in his witness statement, included in the RI attorney general records.
Regarding Buddy Cianci, the sometimes-mayor of Providence and convicted felon, Alice missed the best line: "Cianci was forced to resign from office during both mayoral tenures due to felony convictions."
Amazing commitment to the bit to set off the fire alarm to help show the importance of fire safety
alice is so smokin' hot she set her own fire alarm off holy shit (flushed)
The one time when your fire alarm's commentary on your cookin' is welcome.
Frank Zappa and the Mothers weren't the only band to turn into rescuers. The band playing aboard the MTS Oceanos when it sank in 1991 helped passengers evacuate after the crew abandoned ship first without telling anyone.
Fun fact about the movie Airplane!: It's basically a shot-for-shot parody recreation of a serious movie from 1957 called Zero Hour!. Perhaps that counts as a gritty pre-boot?
You guys forgot to mentions a few details about the fire that made it even deadlier.
The walls didn't just have polyurethane foam glued to them, the previous owners had put polystyrene on the walls and the Derderian brothers just glued it on top and spray painted it black. Polyurethane does burn very intensely but it also burns out quickly, later fire tests showed that the polystyrene foam made the fire burn more intensely longer.
The Derderian brother were also fully aware of how flammable the foam was because the brother who was a news reporter had actually done news piece on it not too long ago. I believe it's on UA-cam as well.
West Warwick's Fire Marshall also fudged the building capacity number a bit so the building could technically have more people inside. They were not sued because they are protected by some kind of legal immunity if no malice is found on the Fire Marshall's part so that's probably why the town was sued.
One of the plaintiff's attorneys for the families of the victims wrote a very detailed book about the fire and did a presentation about it that is available on UA-cam. Apparently one of the victims of the fire had an audio recorder in his pocket and unintentionally recorded the horror inside the club as it burned down and people screaming and gasping for air inside. It's never been released publicly but the plaintiff's attorney did play like 20 seconds of it during his presentation.
When I was in middle school one day a teacher told us about a nightclub fire where one of the main issues was that the exit door swung inwards, and she vividly described how that prevented exit. Sometimes in public places I'll take notice if any exit doors swing inwards and get creeped out, and I always think about it when learning about crowd crush disasters. I think she was talking about Cocoanut Grove but I don't know because there have been SO MANY venue fires that were exacerbated by inward-swinging doors because we refuse to learn lessons- Station Nightclub, Iroquois Theater, Cocoanut Grove...
I watched footage of a guy who was inside the club when the fire started and who managed to make it out just before the fire got out of hand. He kept rolling. I've watched a lot of fucked up stuff on liveleak and such in my dumbass teenage years, but the only thing that actually still haunts me to this day is THAT.
I've seen it too at my new job's work and fire safety training.
I know the reason for that. A lot of disturbing stuff that you watch on Liveleak is either jerks injuring themselves for the camera or a few unusual occurrences caught on film. The Station Nightclub Fire, on the other hand, was a massive mishap that could have killed anyone, making it more realistic and frightening to see. That video is quite upsetting.
No, Alice, they’d have a bottle of Poland Spring. Irish Spring is bar soap, even less useful when thrown at a fire :-)
No they had a bottle of bar soap actually
As someone who has encountered intense black smoke from an apartment inferno. It's like an impenetrable burning hot wall; thinking about those people trapped there... that's a horror I don't think people can appreciate without experiencing something similar. I wasn't even at extreme risk (although if I had woken a minute later I might have been) since I had other easy ways to get out, but it messed me up mentally ever since opening my single exit door and encountering it as my actual apartment filled with smoke from the AC vents.
Hate when the Armée de l'Air just accidentally bombs my homework into oblivion with pinpoint accuracy
Oldest excuse in the world...
Was watching this, and my sister went, "Ooh, what's that?" And when I described you as "anarchist engineers who swear a lot," she immediately knew which podcast I meant.
Call it being hypervigilant, but most times I went to work at a venue or went to a club, I was anticipating something like a fire occurring. Security training is a hell of a mindset shifter, but in the event it saves lives, it’s completely worth it.
Me: I wonder what the numbers on the diagram mean
Me, 10 seconds later: oh god
That was not likely Ty Longley on the dance floor. That's a nasty rumor that spread about him after his death.
The original eye witness accounts indicate that he had a friend in the audience. When he realized what was going on, he jumped off stage to exit with his friend. They made their way to the atrium. His friend got pulled out a window, barely alive. Ty, unfortunately, was not as lucky.
We don't actually know who the person on the dance floor was. Bodies were not marked to that degree of specificity.
Holy shit you guys just captured my anxiety perfectly, it’s so hard to explain and even understand myself how like, yes I’m freaking out when nothing is happening, but when the thing actually happens I’m completely fine. I can spire all into a total panic at the idea of being trapped somewhere when I am completely not trapped and can leave easily, but in a case where I am *actually* trapped it’s just, okay, whatever, I’ll figure this out.
Yep.
When the poo actually hits the fan, then people with anxiety disorders are usually on point. It's what we've been waiting for.
I volonteer at a student bar, the first years the fire escape plan featured a exit door opening inward with the door forming a wall as it met the bar
And the added trick of needing to phase through a brick wall according to emergency plan( it jad been made before the wall was erected and never updated)
After really pushing the University ( owners of the buildings) they finally fixed the door and got a new plan
Interesting, I’ve never heard of a university owning a bar
@@StolenFace11 , probably a student union thing, with the University being the landlords.
you just have to teach the atoms who is in charge. ua-cam.com/video/sV87rB7tsVY/v-deo.html
@@StolenFace11 we've got a bar in mine. It's a chili's but it's literally in the main building.
@@StolenFace11 the University is the landlords, we are an association/company, know the exact translation member "owned" and driven
We supply a place to study and party saving the University money for cleaning and cofee
A gritty reboot of Airplane is just Zero Hour, which airplane was based on.
"based on" and word for word remake are 2 different things.
@@Anonarchist It's a bit of both
When I started my degree in Computer Engineering we had, in addition to the national system for recording course completion: a website account, a Moodle account and an account for the ICT department's bullshit proprietary system. If you had any courses at another department, you'd also have to deal with whatever they used, because of course they all had their own bullshit proprietary systems.
While I was studying there they realized this was very stupid, and began to implement a school-wide unified system to replace all that tangled bullshit. Of course, during the seven years I spent there they never actually managed to _finish_ that system, much less migrate everything, so the net result was just the instead of having to deal with four or five different systems, we had to deal with five or six.
"Why do we have 12 systems? I know, lets make one system to unify them all!"
*There was now 13 systems*
Perfect example or something that should be public and free but has to remain shitty so that two dozen assholes can wipe their butts with cash
got certified as a fire crowd manager by a fire marshall who basically just told this story lol
i still have the ID card, which for some reason does not expire until 2022 even though i stopped working at the relevant workplace like two years ago. LMK if any of yall need some fire crowds managed within the next year !!!!!!! lmao
@@chumbucket6989 Does there already need to be a fire for it to qualify as a fire crowd or do we have to start the fire?
Fire, safety, and the regulations that we have now generally don't have happy stories behind them. This was quite horrific compared to the industrial fire incidents you learn about as a welder. Not that those don't have their own tragic, and often fatal, results. There is no Union for Fans of Fading Rock Musicians that will wobble a concert if there are safety violations.
Somehow we've never learned our lesson from Cocoanut Grove which is "don't put the very flammable things on fire."
Another fantastic subject for the gang to cover.
Yikes, my Dad treated patients from this fire. I was wondering when I'd get a local WTYP...
Did they have any mass casualty plans or coordination for the injured? Im guessing from experience that no single facility could take all of the burn victims
@@Ethan-iv8fswhy won't she answer us?
They forgot to sue the most obvious person related to the fire: Prometheus!
If we are going to go around blaming the world's problems on a Titan, well what about Epimetheus and his abomination? Prometheus at least gave penance for his transgression.
Whatever Chinese alchemist first mixed charcoal and saltpeter, come to think of it that guy has a lot to answer for.
We had the same kind of disaster in Romania in 2015, the Colectiv Club fire. Cause of fire: pyrotechnics setting the foam on fire. 26 people died on site, 38 died in hospitals. Thankfully we learned from this and fire protection is now a priority. That is why we had a covid ICU burn down 4 months ago.
Never had anything to contribute before, but my CERT course (CERT = community emergency response team) played the footage of the fire as it began to emphasize the dangerous conditions that you could find yourself in at any moment. You never forget the screams but you also never forget the dazed and seemingly unbothered "whoa" from the singer standing on stage, watching the flames engulf the set.
“i feel a presence of evil, but, like, spanishly”
Alice forgot the best part of Devil, one of the proofs that the Hispanic guy uses to prove the devil is around is that toast falls jelly side down.
This is earliest I’ve ever been to the comments.
Go Birds.
Go Birds!!!
Go Birds!
I’m surprised their first club fire wasn’t the infamous Coconut Grove.
Also of course one of their smoke alarms goes off during the subject of fire.
Yeah I'd love to hear them talk about it, and there are some interesting fire mitigations we still use today thanks to that disaster. (Like, why do you think revolving doors are always flanked by two crashable regular doors? What if you had, say, a *lot* of people trying to use a revolving door at once?)
The glue was foam spray adhesive and yes, it was insanely flammable even after "dry". You can do "potting" with model cement where you encase materials with it.
There is a very good presentation by John Barylick on this, done for the Museum of Tort Law. He was one of the lawyers on the plaintiff legal committee that handled the civil suit, and wrote a book on the incident called "Killer Show".
He discusses why they sued the companies and persons that the team did, and how the levels of liability were decided.
I recommend it if you are at all interested on how civil law works in cases like this.
1h27m? What is this, a podcast with slides for ants?
The lights did not go out, that’s a common misconception.
The smoke was so thick and heavy it banked on the ceiling and completely blocked any light from the ceiling.
The power remained on until the power line burned away from the building about 45 minutes into the fire.
In the Safety Third segment of today, "Needless to say, we promptly retreated".
I cannot believe you guys didn´t draw the obvious connection and laughed your asses off. And that you didn´t shake your hands in the danger zone.
Probably forgot their Loggins and were locked out.
Home Depot was sued because it sold the brothers foam at another time. Sealed Air was sued because their foam was also on the walls. It was there before they put more flammable foam on top of it and it couldn’t be proved their foam didn’t contribute. Anheuser-Busch was sued because they were running a beer promo that night.
@Trebor I think they made the argument that it attracted people. But they were really trying to sue every company possible. The lawyer for many of the cases wrote a book about the event with lots of the legal details.
I think this is my favorite Safety Third. No one gets killed, there are beautiful planes, Roz tries to pronounce 'Gendarmerie', and there's a nice twist at the end.
1. Liam: you're awesome, the podcast wouldn't be the same without you;
2. Having anxiety most of the time, but being extremely calm and focussed during times of stress/when other people panic (i.e. adrenaline surging through your body) could be a sign of one of anxiety's best friends: ADHD. Just FYI.
I've seen this picture of the flames just starting a few times... just now noticed the '1.4 EXPLOSIVES' sticker on the box
Some striking parallels to the nightclub fire in the Russian town of Perm six years later, where 156 people died in much the same ways for much the same reasons, despite the fact that the nearest fire station was literally next door.
I just kept waiting for Alice to bring it up, as I would trust her with having heard of it, but maybe she hasn't after all.
Oh, and same advice applies there as for this fire here: don't go googling for pictures on your own. Wikipedia has you covered if you want to know more.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lame_Horse_fire
Liam and Alice, honest feedback - it took me a minute to warm-up to your styles and non sequesters, but after listening to a handful and taking my cues for patience from Roz, I've come to appreciate you both for how well, and at times unpredictably you can get the topic of the rails. Good stuff, don't mind those exit surveys.
If I may offer one note: interruptions and playful back-and-forth are fun, but perhaps internally yous alls could figure out how to interject without prolonged moments when everyone is talking over each other if you know what I mean.
Take my $2 a month, well worth it
I grew up in northeast Connecticut along the highways that connect Hartford to Providence. Our local nightclub was a converted mill, and the local fire marshal always used it as his example of a building likely to catch fire. It was in that kind of hell where it seems to be making the owner a lot of money, but not compared to what fixing all the code violations would cost.
When it burned to the ground, everyone quietly suspected it was "an insurance fire" (that is, the owner decided he would rather have the insurance money than the building), but it turns out it wasn't. Some people become firefighters for the wrong reasons, and .... well, it had been a while since there had been any interesting fires to put out. So one of the volunteer firefighters added "convicted arsonist" to their resume.
My brother was in this fire and narrowly escaped I’m sure he has PTSD big time
My mom rebelled against the stupid blackboard to something else sites for school. She found a free online math textbook with online homework and she dumped the paid services for something that would be entirely free for the students in her class (part of it was when I told her that I couldn't get my math book for less than $300 and she arranged for me to use the book for the term). A lot of those paid services aren't near as good as the free ones that have everything you need other than the teacher to learn math.
My college had THE BEST system for registering classes online, it was just something an undergrad student made once upon a time and it was effing brilliant. They spent a fortune on blackboard, put registration into it, and registering for classes became the most hellishly difficult thing ever...
alice's fire alarm gave me a small spike of anxiety and i paused the video immediately to gauge whether i should go to the exit whose location i am acutely aware of. i feel seen by the podcast
1:03:00 Roz says "conflaggeration," which sounds nothing like a fire, but a gathering of people bearing flags.
(51:12) Just wanted to add that Buddy Cianci pleaded no contest to assault charges during his first stint as mayor, was elected mayor again 6 years later, was convicted on federal corruption charges that ended his second stint, served 5 years in prison, and ran for mayor again after he was released (getting 45% of the vote in 2014). Also, he had his own marinara sauce for awhile whose proceeds were to go to a children's charity. It netted a total of $3 over four years.
So there's your energy!
Artist here. A while back I was setup on a cryptoart platform by an artist friend who'd made good money. I'd knew nothing about crypto and just wanted to earn something after a difficult year of covid and brexit impact.
Before I uploaded anything I read a the documentation the platform offered, looking for the catch. It didn't mention the emissions anywhere- in fact somewhat claiming to be offset. I know I could have done more diligence, honestly had no idea about the hidden costs.
Upon learning the truth I ceased activity. I think the huge bulk of artists getting into it will be every bit as ignorant as I was :(
That PTSD joke hit fucking close to home lmfao
The reason us anxiety nuts are great in an emergency is because we are in our element. When things are normal there is a billion tiny things to worry about that don't mean anything. We have time to think about everything and that drives us nuts. When things go sideways we only have to focus on what is front of us which is a relief and we have spent our entire lives in the emergency state so we are at home.
At 58:16, the one survivor is mentioned. That was Raul Vargas, and an interview with him is available elsewhere on UA-cam.
I'm surprised you didn't comment on how in the picture of the band right when the fire starts, in the foreground there's literally a box with a yellow label that I'm pretty sure says "EXPLOSIVE" on it.
Set up inappropriate pyro devices then leave the spare ones just lying on a bar table beside the stage
1:00:00 It might interesting to note at this point that the entire section of the plan, with the bubble labeled "18"(deaths) did not exist prior to 1980. Along with roughly 8 feet(2.5m) of the front sections labeled "3" and 31.
In fact, that inner front door "31" dead, WAS THE front door, in 1946/47 when the building originally opened under the Lada brothers as Casey's Inn. The areas at top(Office, Mens, Women's) were added some time between then and when the "Wendy's"-look front endcap 29:05 was added on.
Adding on to the front as such created that long, relatively narrow passageway one had to walk, in and out of the building. And... the aforementioned pool/ sun room(with the curved glass) was not even level with the rest of the existing floor. Different accounts recall anywhere from a 3-6in. step up from that area to the dance floor(where "1" died).
Pause at 29:05 and look carefully at the left edge of the screen: You will notice the original khaki green paint exterior, and a section of the original roof line descending down toward the front addition. Where that roof ends was the original front of the main bar portion of Caseys - The Wheel - Tamany Hall - Cedar Acres - I Kid U Not this place went through more owners and incarnations than the White House! Sometime in the late '70s or early '80s, Triton Realty, who owned several properties, renovated and added on to 211 Cowesett West Warwick, and garnered the place it's "highest" (most respected) use, as a pasta joint "Papa Brillo & Sons"(just a name they contrived).
That lasted for perhaps a decade, and then it reverted to pub and club status, as Glenn's, Crackerjacks, and the "Filling Station". You could order a 'Spare Tire' - a half pound burger - cooked to order, and all the beer and regional rock & roll you could stay for!
And that leads up to this video, where Filling Station owner Howard Julian sold the business to Mike & Jeff Derderian...
When I first happened upon your podcast a few months ago, I immediately thought of about ten or twelve potential episodes. This one was near the top of the list. Most of them you either already had done or have done recently, like the hotel walkway collapse, LeMons, and the Hillsborough crush.
Now onto the Atlanta Wincoff Hotel fire, Chicago River fires, The Bay area earthquake and bridge pancake, the Georgia Dome half-implosion, Atlanta Falcons vs Tom Brady, The Galveston hurricane, etc.
And by the way, hello from Houston.
The safety third reminded me of a crazy tale. The company I work for was contracted to install a camera system at an air weapons range. Part of that work required us to access the roof of the air traffic control tower which is above the mess hall with a cluster of out buildings and barracks. The actual bombing range being about 4kms away. While on the roof the airforce guy we were with pointed out a bunch of shrapnel damage on the steel handrails. Apparently an American pilot mistook the control tower/base as the target and dropped a live bomb. Luckily he was no good at his job, the bomb landed a couple of hundred metres short blowing up a large LPG tank and perforating the buildings with shrapnel. Somehow nobody was hurt or killed.
For people who are determined to watch the footage of the fire, allow me to describe from memory the worst part, as a warning:
At one point, the camera shows the crush of people at the main entrance, each person screaming and grasping at the open air as smoke billows out above them. The cameraman then walks around to the stage exit to get a glimpse of the fire inside the building. The smoke inside is so thick that it hovers about a foot off the floor. The cameraman then walks back around to the front, passing the sunroom with broken windows pouring more smoke. By the time he returns to the main entrance, no one is screaming anymore. The smoke completely obscures the doorway. They've all died in the span of a few minutes.
EDIT 5/11/2021: I went and rewatched the footage because 1) I'm an idiot and 2) I wanted to make sure I was accurately describing the part I was thinking about. It's incredible how narrowly the cameraman missed getting caught up in the front door crush himself. The crush forms within a few seconds of him exiting the building, as indicated by a sudden outburst of screams as he makes his way down the stairs outside the door. He turns around to show a pile of horizontal people 3 to 4 layers high wedged in the door.
My recollection was correct up until the cameraman walks around to the stage entrance to see the smoke hovering just a foot above the floor. The screaming fades temporarily because the stage entrance is around the corner, and the acoustic properties of the building block the sounds from the front entrance. The screams come back into audio range as he comes back around to the front, and in the short space of time between last seeing the front door and this point, all open front windows and doors have gone from pouring smoke to being fully engulfed in flames. At one point, a person on fire staggers down the front steps. Screams are still audible, though it's impossible to tell whether they're from the crush or the outside crowd. People from the club are either getting out of the way of firefighters or helping to maneuver the firehose around the parked cars to reach the building. Again, I'm posting this description as a warning to the morbidly curious about what you're getting into if you decide to watch the footage yourself.
From the podcast, there was at least one person that survived under the pile of bodies.
@@discoj7112 You wouldn't be able to tell from the video.
I watched this podcast immediately after being the fire safety for a packed fire show in a punk bar located in a basement, with ceilings so low one of my jobs was to swat the (thankfully concrete) ceiling with a wet towel if the flames licking it ignited the paint. Not even the most dangerous venue I've been the towel guy for. Safety third! 🙃
Christ all this talk of anxiety disorders really hit home for me. Super relatable, I didn’t know other people felt like this too
We're together in this.
...But since we have anxiety disorders, usually isolated.
for the record working in aircraft maintenance also justifies anxiety about flying and adds mild disdain for pilots
"They sued the inventor of foam, George Foam."
Dammit y'all, George Foamen (i.e. George Foreman) was sitting right there, and you missed it.
The video of this is grim but should be required viewing. Ever since I saw it I look for the fire exits as soon as I enter a new place like this.
Fun fact about Jack Russell... He did a year in prison after committing an armed robbery in which he shot and wounded a housekeeper. That was a couple years before he joined Great White the first time, if I recall. So the fire thing and performing maskless during pandemic is totally on brand.
And he just stopped performing earlier this year.
Everytime I hear the words "Pentagon Wars" and "Documentary" used in the same sentence a small part of my inner soul dies.
Holy Scottish hog! I found a Lazerpig before they were famous!
I like the callback to episode 33 (pier 34) in which they remarked that the first nightclub they covered wasn't a fire
I took a course for plans examiners a while ago and this event was a big part of the explanation for a lot of building codes. One thing the instructor said has stuck with me: nearly every building code has a body count behind it.
Ages ago I dated a girl from Cranston. She had friends who died in this shit. Absolutely criminal.
Are we gonna get a bonus episode about tulip mania? It's pretty hilarious that the dutch blew up their economic system at the peak of their golden age because of speculative interest in tulip bulbs
"And you can develop a cult of personality around the bouncer, Sven" Was that a BergHain reference Alice?
ja
Alice really needs to get a drop of Les Marseillais for all French-related drops
La Marseillaise de Commune you mean surely?
As a resident of the state where this incident occurred I have the privilege to say all jokes made at my states expense are true and very funny
46:30 - NO - That would be DAN BIECHLE, tour manager that night for Jack Russell's Great White, just as he realized his pyro got lethally out of control
Is it disputed that Ty Longley actually went back for his guitar. Something of an urban legend. There is some evidence he may have gone to help his friend. One or two breaths of the Hydrogen Cyanide gas released by the burning Polyurethane and Polyethyline foam and you are not knocked out if not dead. Unfortunately most people don't know that.
Alice's impression of the Hitman quote was spot-on