Well There's Your Problem | Episode 95: Caving Disasters
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- Опубліковано 2 лют 2022
- i would simply not go in the cave
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creativecommons.org/licenses/b... - Наука та технологія
The audio on this is terrible. It’s tragic that you don’t respect your audience enough to record in the same room together.
Their Patreon has a funding goal to move the Philadelphian hosts to Scotland
@@gotnothingclever it would be more effective to set fire to the whole thing and move it all to a dumpster so they can all talk over each other and sound shitty in peace.
They tried all recording in the same room for a while unfortunately the teleporter kept reducing the test horses to a soup-like homogenate so they had to abandon that idea.
@@Gnaveofpa I understand that it might bring you a small amount of comfort to attempt a tear-filled deflection via directly attacking me instead of addressing the valid concerns I have raised. People tend to get overly attached to shitty podcasts and bend over backwards to forgive their shortcomings.
@@SarahExpereinceRequiem it’s a shame they only stopped at abandoning that idea.
the reason caving is such an english phenomenon is because they instinctually are trying to find somewhere unexplored to colonize
This is actually incredibly logical.
"Unexplored"
Thailand Soccer team facts:
- because Thailand has a dry season and a monsoon season, there are months-long periods of time where the caves in this mountain are completely dry and safe. While there are some pretty tight spaces, they are not considered particularly dangerous. It's mostly more like an underground hiking trip than any of the caves in this episode.
- the cave is at the base of a mountain, which means you don't just go down, you can also go up. AKA, sump zones all over the damn place.
- the monsoon came a month earlier than expected. Torrential rain poured into the cave mouth, and made a sump as Alice mentioned in the beginning of the episode - air outside the cave, water rushing in and filling a dip just past the mouth, air on the inside of the cave.
-the Team was on their way out when they realized the exit was blocked by a lake of rapidly raising flood water. As they retreated from the raising water, they were forced further and further into the cave. Ultimately they became trapped in a chamber with a large air pocket, 2.5 MILES INTO THE NOW FLOODED CAVE.
-Here's where shit gets extreamly fucked: unlike any other cave diving scenario, this isn't still standing water. This is basically cave diving in what would be a white-rapids river if it was above ground. Increadibly strong currents that want to smash you into the rocks, disorienting you and posing a huge risk to the fragile diving gear, plus literally zero visibility.
-it took many, many dives to reach the boys, since each time divers went in they were working to install a few hundred more feet of guide-rope.
-one of the Thai divers, 37 year old Saman Kunan died during rescue efforts. He was a former Royal Navy SEAL. Another, Beirut Pakbara, died the next year from a blood infection contracted in the caves.
-There were pumps installed at the mouth of the cave to remove water. Rescue efforts were so disorganized in the beginning that 4 pump workers went missing *and nobody noticed* They were found, alive, in a shrinking air pocket by the first divers to make it that far in, and subsequently rescued, but they all nearly died during the rescue from panicking and struggling against their dive-rescuer.
-in an absolutely *insane* feat of engineering, to buy time and try to make reaching the boys easier by trying to 'drain' the cave, they drilled into the water table at the base of the mountain and installed massive pumps to remove colossal amounts of groundwater
-by the time they reached the boys, they were very weak as they had been starving and cold for..10 days? If I recall correctly. Followed by days of everyone trying to figure out how to save them.
-Ultimately they decided the only way to save any of them was to make custom, child-sized dive-masks that would cover their faces and work like a CPAP machine. The children weren't trained to cave-dive, the divers were trained on how to give an emergency ketemine injection in case the first injection (done by a doctor with dive experiance) wore off. It was understood that if a child woke up during the dive out, they would almost certainly struggle and die. The unconscious child would then have their hands and feet bound, and a custom dive suit on that had a handle on it for the divers to hold onto.
-expectaions were extremely grim. Original estimates put it as getting even one survivor out alive to be beating the odds. Even with putting as many safety measures in place as they could, they went in expecting an 80% death rate of the Wild Boar soccer team. To the point where, in an attempt to protect the psyche of the divers, it was decided that the divers would not refer to the survivors as kids or know which child they had with them. But instead refer to them as "packages", because, again, they were going into this thinking 8 out of 10 trips were going to change from rescue to body retrieval partway through. And if the diver can't stay calm, if they get to distraught at that thought, the diver dies too.
- despite ALL that, all thirteen boys and the coach were successfully rescued!!!
- no reported cave madness ((yet))
Amazing comment content - thank you
I had no idea what a feat of... jesus... human labor, organization, diving, cave engineering, and dive equipment engineering that rescue was. It's almost absurd the odds that we can hold our own against, and sometimes even beat!
one correction, if you don’t mind: they were Thai (from Thailand), not Taiwanese (from Taiwan)
@@probablymycat9347 *facepalm* thanks for the catch, dang 😬
iirc, the assistant coach Ekkaphon Kanthawong is a former Buddhist monk and he had the kids just meditate while they were trapped
ALL CAVES ARE BAD. As a geologist who LOVES LIMESTONE, this is THE TRUTH. Holes are acceptable, that's a cave without a roof--cave with a roof? Bad. Horrible.
clap along if you feel like you're in a cave without a roof
@@thomasgiles2876 Se....end he....elp......
Acab!
Limestone Lover 🐚✅️😍
Cavern Hater💦👿🚫
Hole Acceptor🕳🆗️💅
yw
As someone who lives above a cave forming area, I agree about the caves. But I don't appreciate the sinkholes either. So often they try to eat our tractors.
@1:15:30
Alice: "He wants to Not Be In The Cave. Anymore."
Devon: "Ah yeah-- well that's the thing about fuckin' cavers, isn't it, they all wanna be in the cave, and then very suddenly and very quickly they don't want to be in the cave anymore."
IN LOVING MEMORY
My Sides
[BIRTH YEAR]-2022
This fucking killed me
Well there's your problem, the world's first Abstinence Only Cave Education podcast
I despair that I have but one like to give.
We must put it in our schools
EVEN after marriage, kids.
+
And if you do need to go into a cave, for gods sake, use protection.
59:57, 18 year old girl with a hammer in a muddy cave with permission to break a man's collar bones is honestly peak 18 year old girl. This is adolescent girls in their natural habitat, true peak perfomance.
I was a straight-A teachers pet at 18, but if someone had given me a hammer and pointed me at a cave I would have gone feral, I would have broken every collar bone in sight
That’s the absolute truth. Teen girls can be absolutely terrifying in the right circumstances
girls will be girls
@@platedlizardnamely, when youre wedged into a muddy cave facing one wielding a hammer in the midst of being swung heftily in the general direction of your collar bones
"Is this cave creepy or wet?"
"It's a perfectly good cave sir."
Go there.
it's wet
underrated comment
And a little creepy
"He's aiming for the birth canal, but he gets lost"
Happens to the best of us...
A joke so good they made it twice... 😂
"Wrong hole" has never had worse results
If it happens to you, you're clearly not the best! Don't kid yourself about that one.
Haven't heard the pod yet but I feel the nutty putty cave discussion looming like a dark cloud that rains human suffering
edit: god damn it
a dark cloud that rains human suffering, and floods caves.
Positional asphyxiation confirmed bad way to go
The instant I saw the title I thought "oh they're gonna mention Jon Jones in this one.
I'm from kentucky. I knew Floyd would make an appearance. Rest in peace, dude.
@@TheLaureness Yeah, my family is originally from Kentucky. As a kid, Floyd Collins was used as a cautionary tale to convince me not to venture off into incredibly dangerous places/situations. Floyd's downfall has to be one of the most American stories ever. Nearly everyone out to make a quick buck off of his dire situation, becoming a roadside attraction, both in life and death.
For April Fools ya should do the Mystery Flesh Pit 2007 Disaster Report but like, act like its a real thing for the entire run
I need this in my life because of reasons.
I also came up with this idea
Wait. What do you mean, "act like its a real thing"? It's definitely a real thing. There's documentation. I was about to book a trip to go visit, the year shit went down, and I'm super pissed you can't go there anymore. 😩🍍
Seconding this. Anything to raise the profile of the Mystery Flesh Pit.
Oh HELL yeah!
"He kind of just slides straight in up to the ankles"
Well that doesn't sound so bad, comparatively speaking. Even if he's stuck, at least he isn't like, upside do-
Oh. Oh, you mean up to the ankles from the _other_ direction.
So the solution to not losing a podcast episode is to simply make the recording software more rigid, right?
More. Recording. Software. AT THE SAME TIME.
@@Personal_Chizo The one thing I know about engineering, engineering podacasts and engineering is that you need either redundancy or more redundancy. Ideally both, then add some redundancy for good measure.
@@Personal_Chizo REDUNDANCY REDUNDANCY REDUNDANCY we need 16 separate uploads of each episode
@@deeznoots6241 Redundancy
MAKE. THE. DISK. MORE. RIGID.
Speaking of caving, looking forward to Well There’s Your Problem: Mystery Flesh Pit
The Halloween episode we all unknowingly long for.
them going over the disaster report would unironicly be very fun
god that would be SO sick.
Oh my god I would want NOTHING more than this
Well There's Your Problem Halloween episode: architectural analysis of famous scary places
Alice: ... "Some of it you can disturb with sound, like if you yell, the clay starts moving."
Yeah, that's great. The cave structure is made with Load-Bearing Silly-Putty.
Not going there, ever.
TBF it's not load-bearing, it just coats everything floor to ceiling and easily gets disturbed, which is already enough of a yikes when you're precariously looking for a stable footing knee deep in it, well I imagine, I'm not verifying that hypothesis, F that.
1:23:00 They actually drugged the kids with ketamine and used diving masks that provided CPAP / Constant Positive Airway Pressure.
They had an a anaesthetist/cave diving guy swim in, perform examinations on the boys, provide guidance, administer the anesthetic, AND help swim them out! Richard Harris is his name - dudes rock.
Amazing coincidence of skills.
Brb getting myself stuck in a cave to get free ketamine
I wonder. Did they train an anesthetist in cave-diving or vice versa or did they just happen to find one of what must be a very small number of guys who happen to possess both skills?
@@ShootingStarNeo He had 30 years of cave diving experience :O They summoned him through the power of “I know a guy”
@@ShootingStarNeo I’m guessing the cave diving community found a dude
27:54 "This is why, when you go into the cave and you see a hole that is exactly the outline of your body, just fill it with concrete. Immediately." Excellent reference
what is it a reference to?
@@V8DV Junji Ito's The Enigma of Amigara Fault
usually Safety Thirds don't get me but the moment Justin said "and he aimed it at the sergeant" i let out the loudest involuntary gasp of horror lmfao could you IMAGINE
Honestly the perfect pick for this episode, what a great way to relieve all of the tension after nutty putty
@@Schottladen after all that talk of nutty putty, all you wanted was for some one to bust a teen's face
This part had me shrieking. Elmer Fudd earned that nickname.
I'm just loving the right hook, disarm, unchamber combo.
I was filling my gas tank and I involuntarily went into the “what the FUCK are you doing?!” Stance.
"what do you do for a hobby?"
I voluntarily put myself in situations that may result in me turning into a fossil fuel
Nah you’ll be fossilized instead though
Or end up as way mark on Everest.
oh my god that is so hot...
"well if you liquify a person you can fit them through a straw" - best quote of 2022 thus far. thank you.
Liquefy the billionaire to fit them through the eye of a needle
My sister and I used to go explore decommissioned drainage tunnels (as in, they didn't drain anymore, so they were dry) when we were kids. We would hang up socks at junctions and write little poems about how so-and-so had to lose a leg for such-and-such transgression, and how they rest of them was still in the tunnel looking for their leg.
My sister had the idea to put cheese inside the socks to give it a rotting smell, and to pad them out with old tumbleweed debris.
Anyway there were a few times where other kids would come in (usually with lighters, just flicking them for the flashes of light to see where they were going) and we would get really quiet until they found one of the "legs" and the graffiti-poems. Then we'd start making little sounds and shuffling around from way farther inside the tunnels.
It was fun stuff. Usually after we started making noises, you'd just hear a bunch of running footsteps getting steadily farther away.
Where urban legends are made.
I too hate the boy scouts. My experience of them as a bookish nerd was just a nest of bullies overseen by an adult who stopped none of it because to his mind this was what would make us "men." One of the only times I got in trouble in secondary school (another dumb adults story too long for this comment) my parents made part of my punishment removal from the Boy Scouts, leaving me having to act sad and contrite when I was actually super happy at this outcome. I think at age...25 or something I mentioned this to my 65 year old dad and he leaped up off the couch and yelled "you still didn't learn your lesson!" I reminded him I was 25 and not a kid anymore and his need to take a laxative or something along those lines.
(I got up to sharpen the pencil of someone in a cast and crutches without permission. Explaining this got me sent to the office. The Vice Principal saw his rare chance to get his digs at the smart kid who never misbehaved and spent several minutes ranting at me like I was scum. He walked away and I flipped him off. His secretary snitched, and them my mom was in the counselors office crying about my shameful lack of respect and I was suspended for 2 weeks for sharpening an injured kid's pencil. I am now 59, and to this day still think adults are morons and assholes, including myself. I hope never to become one.
It's for the best you got out early, given the uh...ongoing lawsuits.
Does the hyperloop technically count as a cave? It is just one accident away from being a death trap after all
No most caving is much safer than the hyperloop….
@@davidwright7193 It's indeed a lot safer because you aren't also inside a pod within a cave, just inside a cave. Thankfully no one has tried to build a cave pod yet. I mean, who would even be crazy enough to do such a...
OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!
caving accident with bonus lithium and carbon polymer pyrotechnics
@@brotlowskyrgseg1018 only pedophiles don't like cave pods!
only if you consider Elon Musk a force of nature
We really need to start encouraging billionaires to take up caving.
Buy one caving trip, get one free ride to the titanic 🙂
@@mary9983 implosion, collapse... Same thing if you think about it
@@q3st1on19 God willing, soon we will get similar returns from Billionaire Spaceflight
Good news! A Submarine did an antifascist action recently!
how about cave diving? definitely takes the danger levels and cubes it when you have to scuba inside a cave...
20:49 Surveyors find an ancient hole in the mountain and are like "This hole was made for me!"
When I finally read that story, I was just like, "huh, okay, that's it?"
Years later, I *still* fucking think about it. Steady burn, that one.
Rrrrrrr
Every story of people disappearing in the wild is because they went into a hole they shouldn’t have
@@deeznoots6241 or should have, that is
@@nonsquarepixels DDR
Just going to emphasize the fact in case people missed it that $4.2 billion of Pennsylvania's road and bridge repair funds were diverted into police funding, this is while Penn is 9th in the nation for worst maintained roads and bridges.
All the "Cave shaped for me" references are The Enigma of Amigara Fault.
Thank you. I scoured the comments for this info so I didn't have to ask it.
Oh hell yeah they reference Enigma of Amigara Fault? I knew the WTYP crew was cool but not that cool.
Junji Ito: responsible for many of my various sleep paralysis demons, but also the most wholesome cinnamon roll of a human being. A land of contrasts, if you will.
Thanks, appreciate you.
@@Blakbox92 I'm from the future. It's not the last time. ✌️🍍
Perfect timing, this is exactly what I need to watch while working under my car.
Just tie a rope to your ankle so they can pull you out if you get stuck. You'll be fine.
Turn off the lights, let the dark beguile you!
i need to know that zach survived, update plz 🙏
I think it says something profound about how captalism sinks its hooks into our psychology that I can watch your videos on mass death incidents due to avoidable industrial catastrophes in locations like the ones I frequent everyday without severe anxiety, but when it comes to thinking about dying dying in a cave, something that will never happen to me, I’m gripped by panic
I think that might have less to do with capitalism and more to do with primal human instincts accounting for claustrophobia and the danger of underground spaces and not having any reference for industrial disasters
@@Crazykid-ob6mp Shhh all the fringe ideologues on this channel will have your neck...
When we were at Canadian Forces Base Petawawa, one day my old Dad was range safety officer on an artillery range. At one point as he surveyed the range by binoculars, he spotted what looked like people on the range short of the targets. He put up the red flag (to stop firing) and got in his jeep and drove out to see what it was. Turned out it was a father, mother and a couple of kids and they were picking berries. My Dad tore a strip off them and had them escorted away. What made it especially bad is the berry-picking father happened to be a sergeant in the artillery himself.
Days 1-4: thinking about the dude who died upside down wedged in his own grave.
Day 5: found a documentary about a guy getting rescued from Riesending cave. it's very heartwarming.
Day 6: back to thinking about the dude who died upside down wedged in his own grave.
When I was around 12 I went on an overnight camping/canyoning trip with my scout group. We found a little sandstone cave near the campsite - just about wide enough to comfortably fit one person crawling - and decided to go for a little explore. I was pretty spooked and decided to hang just a little way inside the entrance, but some of the others went probably 20 metres deep (up and down and around corners) before reaching a dead end. We headed back the next day and found that the sandstone had evidently shifted overnight - there was now a dead end just inside the cave entrance. If that rock had shifted a couple of hours earlier we could have been trapped. Fuck caves.
You missed the creepiest part of the moss cave bit: John Ogden, the last body to be discovered, was found wedged almost impossibly into an extremely tight rift in the rocks. Only his shoes and part of helmet were seen, first overlooked because they were covered in silt. It’s clear he was the last to survive, struggling to get a last gasp of air as his friends died around him. Harrowing stuff.
WTYP, notably not stolen from a MentalFloss article
Hbomberguy do not make a video about them, please
1:17:58 "I had to wear a fall harness for when I worked on high-rises back in the day" see Rocz, it's shit like this that makes people assume you're a 62-year-old retired civil servant
I remember going into a lava cave in the Azores into a gallery about 5 meters high and the guide said to us: "You see that small crack where a human barely fits? Well if you want we organize tours where you crawl on your belly for SIX!!! hours and if you are a bit overweight you won't fit. So does anybody want to join next time?"
*silence*
I love hearing about caving disasters because I know I'll never be in that situation. I could die in a traffic accident, or end up on a sinking ship, or have a building collapse under me, but a cave? Nah, I'm never going to be in a cave. So I can just sit here, drink a warm beverage, and hear about a horrible way to die that's never going to happen to me. It's nice.
I've gotten multiple recommendations for videos on "[Name of Cave] Disaster", and have clicked none of them because I do not want to hear about dying in a cave, because fuck no. However, your lack of spooky ambient music, matter of fact descriptions, and frequent jokes and tangents made the content much easier to take in. I now consider myself thoroughly educated on why NOT to go cave exploring, and hopefully will not have horrible cave dreams. Thanks a bunch!
Roz's rant about the Boy Scouts makes me want an entire episode about the BSA
As a third generation boy scout leader, I support this idea.
Yeah you probably don't want to know. One of my scout "leaders" was arrested for buggering boys.
Oh boy I sure hope so
Behind The Bastards recently did a two parter on the BSA.
My branch of the scouts was expelled for liking gay people
Nutty Putty Cave is honestly one of *the* most terrifying stories... Fascinating Horror did a fairly in-depth video on the incident and it's absolutely haunting.
buny
Nutty putty and the giant sunlit hole in India that you can straight up drown and go too deep in broad daylight are my favorite worst fears of death.
Although not Caves, Lost Mines is a brilliant UA-cam channel, where two guys one who is working towards a PHD in the history of minning, go into abandoned mines in mid Wales near Aberystwyth, they have some amazing finds, such as a giant underground waterwheel and they have an ROV to go into flooded parts of the mines and they've found mind carts and stuff. One of them being a PHD student in the history of minning really helps add in so much fascinating detail about that particular mine, they are in that day.
Thanks for recommending these, will check them out!
Ooh, definitely checking that out.
Do you mind linking me their channel, i can't seem to find it. Thanks in advance!
@@gaudigaudi9613
ua-cam.com/users/LostMines
TVR Exploring and Mines of the West are two more really great mine exploration UA-cams as well!
You say the easy way to not die in a cave is to not go into a cave, maybe you should do an episode on Sinkholes, sometimes the cave just reaches out and grabs you!
Yay, Florida!
I’ve gone in a cave during a school program, when I was part of a thing for “”youth at risk”” and even though it wasn’t a high-risk cave, it was still existentially terrifying. The cave was owned by a private company that makes you sign a form saying “if I die in the cave it’s my fault the company takes no responsibility for shit that happens down there” which I assume is standard for these kinds of things.
It's my personal policy to not do anything where it's policy for you to put your name on such a paper.
I worked as a ranger at a park called Oregon Caves. They had this issue because originally the tour route ended at the back of the cave and you had to backtrack the whole way, which caused all kinds of problems because getting two people past each other in some parts of that cave is hard. So in the 1930s they decided to just kinda blast an exit tunnel through 300 feet of marble. A company was contracted to dig the tunnel and everything went great for the first 150 feet. Then they hit a clay pocket, which flooded the tunnel and ended up bankrupting the company due to the expense of pumping it out.
A new company was brought in to pump the remainder of the tunnel out and get back to work on the project. They set to work and immediately blasted through a wall into another clay pocket which flooded the tunnel and, you guessed it, the company went bankrupt.
Finally the CCC was brought in. The rest of the project went fine. The tunnel is still used, and it's fun to show people where the daddy long legs group up on the walls. They do little pushups if you shine a flashlight on them.
And basically that's why private companies are shit and all public works should be done by public agencies.
Also it's called 'spelunking' because that's the sound you make when you hit bottom.
Also grizzly bears can hit 35mph. That's why we refer to people on bicycles in parks as 'meals on wheels.'
@@derpderpson2188 no grizzlies in Oregon though??? We just got black bears, the coward’s bear
Critical support for Elmer Fudd in his prolonged oaf's war against gun-range instructors.
I'm a little amazed we had a story about a literal philosopher in a literal Cave and there was not even one joke about shadows or Forms
I love that one of Roz's favorite cave facts is just a repurposed train fact.
When it comes to caves, my rule is simple: Don't go any deeper than you can still see fine with normal daylight. When you need artificial light: NO!
The only exception is when the cave is more like a big building: It has trodden ways, maybe even installed lights, and people are going in and (more importantly) out of it without trouble every day. I have done that 2 times for some really beautiful pointy things.
But you know, that's already enough I think, for my life time.
My favorite personal caving story was when some friends and I decided to pull over to see some show cave in pennsylvania. We were immediately beguiled not by the actual cave but by a FAKE cave they made for a mini golf course. You're spoiled for choice on show caves but THE WORLDS LARGEST SIMULATED CAVE? Now that's special.
Alice is absolutely on fire in this episode, but a thing that I have thought frequently while going through the WTYP archives is, Liam, thank you SO MUCH for being upfront and loud about dealing with mental illness and for being frank about and unashamed of your feelings. That's some goddamn wholesome masculinity and I am really glad that you're here.
This comment deserves more than the 7 likes it has. 👍👍👍👍👍👍🍍
@@PFMediaServices and you deserve more than the single like I can give in return.
i went caving in the mendips once about 15 years ago and once we hit full darkness we all turned our headlamps off to appreciate the awesome majesty of being inside the earth which is when my mum decided it would be funny to jumpscare me. i've not really forgiven her to this day.
My caving partner is American born, but his English dad did cave diving in Wookey Hole, on the southern edge of the Mendip Hills, in the 1950s using full dive dress, and then Royal Navy surplus rebreathers (up to 24 hours on one charge). I've since visited Wookey Hole and taken the tour (March 2003): they had some of the old dive equipment on display at the museum and paper mill, including a hand-cranked air compressor.
I've seen explosions, dead kids crushed in landslides, bodies burned alive, mangled, decapitated, and poisoned in a dozen different ways
But this is the first time I've ever been truly nervous about watching one of your episodes.
Time to walk backwards into hell
What kind of life do you have. Sounds heavy
@@MrJimheeren Stagehand
That's pretty metal, bro.
@@phathumdeep who knew that fixing lamps and mics was such a dangerous job
@@MrJimheeren turns out that it's fantastically dangerous to hang several tons of steel a hundred feet above the heads of a few thousand concertgoers
Excellent episode as always guys, my 2 euros on Patreon are well spent. I finally get to do something I've been waiting to do ever since I became a fan: correct you on something! Okay so in the part about Elon Musk (fuck Musk) and the thai kids in the cave though: they did not, as Alice says, 'have to teach the thai kids how to cave dive'. This was considered at first, but in the early stages of the operation some parts of the rescue staff got caught in a way easier location in the cave as it kept flooding (this also answers Ross' question about how they got stuck in the first place: they cave is accissible enough when it's not raining, and it wasn't supposed to be raining yet but the Monsoon season started a few weeks early so the way to the entrance flooded and they pushed further in to avoid drowining and got stuck with no way out) and as they cave divers were bringing these 4 grown men out a distance of just a couople of hundred meters, they panicked and one of them nearly drowned, and these were adults.
This lead the rescue team realize that trying to do the same to 12 kids over a far longer distance which was less navigable would be deadly, and eventually after long consideration the plan they actually hatched was way more crazy: they had a doctor (who was also a cave diver) teach all the other cave divers to administer fucking _ketamine_ to all the kids to basically knock them the fuck out and the divers swam the kids (all of whom were likely triping balls) outside one by one. The reason they had to be taught how to do it even though the doctor gave the first shot is that the dive took so long they had to re-administer the ketamine shot halfway through lest the kids are no longer tripping and sedated and will wake up, panic, and likely die.
They were pretty sure the sedation would cause some of them to die during diving because of difficulties breathing or having their airways blocked (the kids had to be maintained in a very spesific position for their breathing to be secured, which it turns out it's difficult to do while pushing through narrow gaps underwater in a cave) but the volunteer team made up of cave diver hobbyists of different nationalities and ages managed to fucking pull this off. The thai navy seals gave up earlier and moved to a support role after one of their divers got stuck and died (the only fatality in that incident). But none of the kids died. The skillset that pulling this off requires is insane. The dive there and back was like ~2 hours one way and the guys did multiple back and forth trips while planning and supplying the kids. Source: I just watched a documentary film on this called 'The Rescue' on Disney+, it was pretty good and I can recommend it to fans of WTYP.
It's fucking amaizing that this worked. Like the entire scale of it and the logistics to pull this off involved hundreds if not over a thousand people working 24/7. It's also cerifiably the only time anyone's ever caved dived on ketamine.
taking the concept of a K-Hole to its absolute extreme
someone at WTYP pin this please !
Thank you Satanic Bunny (great name by the way) for supporting them on behalf of us poor/stingy folks and the great info.
Wow. That is an insane rescue.
It's only "way more crazy" if you don't know how insanely difficult cave diving is. Plus, some people do not handle diving well in the first place.
@@thenayancat8802 I was refering to the fact that theyy're essentially having to try something (heavy sedation/drugging of kids underwater) for which there is no precedent and nobody actually no if it'd work or if all of the kids would die.
Like the doctor who came up with this idea basically gambled his own freedom, because had it failed and some or all of the kids would have died, it's possible that he'd be facing a trial and potential life in prison.
Not I wasn't trying to suggest the idea was dumb. I understand very well how difficult cave diving is, and why therefore what they chose to go with was the most reasonable option given that they're under time pressure as the cave was filling up and running out of air, but if attempting a plan like this that has never been tried before with the lives of kids at stake, (and remember, all the cave divers were volunteers, none of them had to do this) does not qualify as the mother of all crazy ideas (that worked) I don't know what does.
when I went to camp they made us go in a show cave & I was terrified so the counselor made the tour guide tell me no one had died in there. The guide was like "No sometimes people fall off the path and die the bodies aren't there anymore though."
95 episodes in, and I finally learn who the grey ball was supposed to be. Had no idea if that was Justin or Liam.
I would have bet good money but was the other way around xD and that's after seeing them!
Although, on rewatching the episode, like our comrade above already had I realised it might be a coin!
HELL YES - This pod cast is me shaped! *Shoves self into the WTYP hole*
Is that hole eroded into rock? A cave, if you will?
@@briannem.6787 nah it’s a bunch of shifting limestone matrix with some gravel
Beats listening the the podcast that turned my village into snails
Drr... Drr... Drr...
Never go in The Ocean
Never go in The Caves
Especially never go in their even more horrifying cross overs
I enjoyed cave exploring until I partnered with someone who insisted on exploring deeper AFTER one of our flashlights failed, another was about to die and was essentially useless... and he had the only working one which was tiny and had a small battery. That experience sucked all the cave adventure out of me for the 25 + years since; and I've done a few dangerous things.
"The Speleologist carried three sources of illumination, as all good cavers must. The Speleologist carried two carbide lamps and a copy of Descartes' *Meditations*." -- MAWS (1976) by "Erd Noswat" (philosopher/caver Richard Allan Watson, RIP).
As someone who also has dealt with similar suicidal ideation, I’m grateful for and proud of your righteous indignation, Liam
When I was little, my parents took me and my sister camping in Mammoth Cave National Park. We took the guided tour of the cave which was cool. My favorite part was that there are parts of the cave that we still don’t know where it ends yet. 😲 In the 19th century some doctor had the idea that the air in the cave would be good for treating tuberculosis so he built a hospital for tuberculosis patients to live in the cave. Obviously it didn’t work at all and the doctor also died of tuberculosis. 😬
Current survey total passed 420 miles last year (more than 175,000 individual survey shots!), with no end in sight!
The eventual solution for the Thai football team was to sedate them to take them out. Time was running out as the monsoon was just getting started. The sedation kept them from panicking as they were taken out by a skilled cave diver. The dose was light so as not to suppress breathing with a second dose administered half way out. Truly amazing.
i am ready to Become Extremely Uncomfortable hearing about caving disasters
Y'all forgot the best detail about Floyd Collins. When they finally got his body out of Sand Cave, his face had been half-eaten by cave crickets.
oh my god they probably didn't just start eating when he died 😱
I have been in Sand Cave, just below grade so I could say that I'd been in it. There were crickets swarming the walls (as they do around entrances), and it was a little creepy to realize this was the same population that ate part of Floyd. (I was able to enter, which I did without permission, because the old iron banded gate had rusted so much. A year or so later, the Park Service would install a new, steel gate in its place). I could see the way on, just as described and mapped during the disaster and later, a body-width slot leading down a steep slope between sandstone slabs (the entrance is right at the horizon of contact between the sandstone caprock above, and limestone below).
Well now that's in my head forever
Makes sense, probably not much food in a cave. They gotta take advantage when they can
I know that "Where's Franklin" is corny and played out at this point, but when Alice said "what are Caves?" I immediately got hit with a wave of nostalgia for DNE's Minecraft vignettes
I hope we get it soon
Franklin 😭
My father stopped skydiving after 3 malfunctions in as many jumps, he got into cave diving instead. Several people he knew never came back, 3 of whom because they tried to find, and retrieve, someone who didn't come back earlier. I can't think of a worst way to die: wedged in an underwater tunnel, torch battery empty and scuba tank slowly running out. FTS!
Gets into skydiving -> quits after three malfunctions -> to instead do the only thing more dangerous….
Your dad ain’t tempting fate, he’s put on his best lipstick, silkiest nylons, and his favorite bow and he is winking coquettishly. Your dad is positively S E D U C I N G fate lol.
I never got to meet my "cave grandmother" in the Mammoth Cave project (the woman who trained my own mentor) because she drowned on a solo dive in Pennsylvania before I started. There's a passage in Mammoth Cave named for her. She solo'ed the sump that leads to it in 1984, but couldn't survey the route (because solo). After I started, in 1992, I was a sherpa (hauling air tanks in and out) for John Schwenn and Terry Leithauser, who surveyed the near-zero-visibility sump that Roberta had solo'ed. When they emerged on the far side of the sump they found (and surveyed) the dry passage that Roberta had reported. One moving event from their dive was that they found Roberta's footprints, still discernable in the mud, from 1984. The passage is now named Swicegood Avenue in her honor.
I'm not sure, but being boiled alive in one of those "formed by hot water from the down" tops it, I think.
Caving scares me the same way Everest does. I have nightmares about both. It's an irrational fear because it's not like the caves are gonna come hunt me down. Nobody's gonna force me to climb Mt. Everest. Maybe it's because I worry that someone I love might pursue that shit and end up dying horribly?
I did a small cave tour in Belize that required us swimming through a pool at the entrance. The back of the cave was filled with sacrificial pots and even an recognizable calcified skeleton of a child located high up on a ledge. I now wonder how close to flooding death we were. Actually best not to think about these things.
This first story is so uniquely American. Man gets stuck in a cave, most people take advantage of him, turning the guy into a roadside attraction rather than trying to actually get him out.
Deserved
1:39:38 I made it through the entire cave discussion with only a few cringes and shivers, but Cadet Fudd pointing a loaded rifle at the sergeant is the part that made me just stop the podcast in horror.
If anyone has seen that recent video by Tom Scott about him trying caving for the first time, it gives you an idea of the variability in human responses to the cave environment, and how simple it would be for an unprepared person to die. Tom Scott literally made it maybe 5 min before he had to turn around and leave.
Nothing brings me greater pleasure than for an english man to be uncomfortable
If I remember correctly, Tom Scott was in the 2nd cave Alice talks about, The Devil's Arse.
Oh! He went back!! There's a follow-up, and he had a much better time of it on the second go - but the conditions were rather different as well. 👏🍍
@@Jacob-Day Particularly this one Englishman, because he's been mostly the picture of confidence on UA-cam for at least 10 years. 😂🍍
I know I'm older than Rocz but when he says a phrase like "back in the day" referring to something he did, part of my brain assumes it was like the 60s or 70s.
I envision the 30s
@@fern5505 fair. I think I'm remembering a joke he made in a Franklin video about something like Vietnam protests
Speaking of names for cave passageways, about 3 hours from where I grew up, there were these caves (nothing that required crawling on your stomach) and one of those was called Fat Man's Misery. I think another one was called the Lemon Squeeze
Heh. Just today, a colleague showed me pictures of his trip to the US 25 years ago, and one of them showed his much younger and leaner self at a spot called "Fat Man Squeeze" at Rock City Gardens, Georgia. (That's no cave though, "only" a narrow passage between rock walls.)
every cave i've ever been in has a section called Fat Man's Misery
@@azertyQ Yep, Mammoth Cave has one, traversed on the Historic Tour. For those who don't like the body-shaming aspect, it was called "Bunyan's Way" during the 19th century (probably a reference to Pilgrim's Progress, given the Victorian tendency to name cave features with allusions to classical literature and mythology).
Listening to this podcast has made me very comfortable with being on bridges, almost as much as being on RORO ferries.
Well, they haven't done many air disasters. 👍
Speaking of RORO ferries, I really hope there’s an episode on the Spirit Of Free Enterprise disaster. The name alone would take ten minutes of airtime.
@@grmpEqweer For most of them it's hard to get to 3 hours after you already did the "What's an airplane and how comes they don't fall down constantly" in a prior episode.
Roro ferries: direct service to god
Fun fact. School Buses ignore weight restrictions entirely and happily drive 15 tons over 3 ton limit bridges. Everyone is safe, I guarantee it.
Funfact: A ton of schoolkids, weighs far less than a ton of adults. - Isaac Newton 5th Law
Non-claustrophobics be like
“What a delightful experience”
"A smooth, quiet, and altogether delightful experience."
Not non-claustrophobic, but a little bit masochistic. Hearing about Nutty Putty always turns me on a little bit. I'm sure that I would have had enough of the experience after only a few minutes but being stuck upside down, then a little bit of hope before you're dropped back in... Mm!
@@Ingestedbanjo i really wanted to kinkshame this for a number of reasons before realizing that i as a sadomasochist with claustrophobia would probably also be into that if it didn't mean death. god dammit.
@@kropotkinnie Hehe, I love that your initial thought was repulsion, but then the fantasy wormed its way into your head too, and is now stuck there like a person upside down in a warm slimy hole. (At least, I assume it's warm if this cave was made by heated water rising upwards?)
And yeah, I feel guilty about this one, not least cos it feels somehow disrespectful to the guy. But, he's in Mormon heaven, and I doubt any of his family will read my depraved comment, so I think I'm good.
@@Ingestedbanjo What a beautiful thought!
Liam,
I think I speak for a lot of Pittsburghers when I say: please do not call the Pirates "mediocre". They are much worse than that, and will continue to be so as long as the Nuttings own them.
Thank you Liam for going off about the Crisis Text Line story. It’s nice to know I’m not alone in my fury.
The kids who got stuck in a cave went into the cave to escape a rain storm and then when the cave started to flood they went further into the cave out of panic and then the flood sealed them in.
Just like the students who drowned in England.
Top 3 ways to go talked about on WTYP so far: 3-Goiania incident 2-initially surviving the Kursk explosion 1-everything in this episode. At least the other ones are pretty quick, like, one moment you are chilling at the launch pad, 2 seconds later you are evenly distributed around a wide area in Baikonur.
as a (former) scout and a (current) trap, I appreciate the naming of scout trap
almost fucked up my spine on a cave wall once when i fell down a hole, landed in a shallow pool at the bottom in pitch black. 10/10 geuninely would go again
Most normal caver
Ugh, the Boy Scouts. I remember getting into multiple heated arguments with the troop leadership about my atheism, to the point that they threatened to prevent me from advancing in rank. Because the BSA is nominally fine with you practicing *any* religion, but they certainly are not fine with you practicing *no* religion.
Also, you know, being not-straight wasn't winning me any points, though I didn't really know I was not-straight at the time. This was before they changed their stance to being not officially homophobic, of course.
In the Scout Leader handbook, there are still references to the fact that you need to believe in God to be a good person.
@@mysteryshrimp Didn't have to keep your hands of kids tho, least in the older editions
Holy shit. Todays "safety third" was hillarious,
In my conscription i saw a few negligent discharges, but never ever did i se someone almost kill the safety officer XD
The biggest "oops" i ever were made aware of in our plutoon was when we were doing handgrenade drills.(spränghandgranat m/56)
We were suposed to stand face to face with the safety officer, repeat all instructions, and systematicaly pull the pin, release the main safety lever, then throw the granade as far as we could out of the trench/bunker we were standing in.
And one time one of the guys dropped the grenade on the floor,
I did not see this incident (for obvious reasons, i was standing in a shelter about 50m away) but from what i told he was throwing the grenade and somehow it bounced on something or he lost his grip and it ended up on the floor,
Long story short the guy panics and tries do grab for the now live grenade that is rolling around on the floor, the safety officer full on grabbed the kid by his collar and ran out of the bunker/trench thing as if he weighed about as much as a grochery bag and threw him on the ground just outside and landed on him before the grenade went of,
Luckyly the trench/bunker thing had a lower floor than the surounding area for just this sort of reason so the shrapnel could not hit them as long as they laid flat on the ground outside,
We were told afterwards that these things happen, he was not the first to fuck up and this is the reason why they tend to have big burly guys doing the grenade training,
Mr Grenade is _not_ your friend
@@williamchamberlain2263 mr grenade dont want to be alone. Dont make mr grenade sad.
Finally, the episode where Alice complains they made something too rigid
This podcast has clearly never done an underground haunted house where people grab on you under thousands of feet of limestone, then they turn the lights out!
I don’t know you but I am convinced I do-
just wanted to record this moment of intense deja vu.
^and involuntary rhymes with meter. Spooky
I'm reporting you to the police for having made me read this comment
... I'm sorry are caves/mines not already haunted enough or something?
in my state, an old abandoned chalk mine turned into a Halloween attraction at that time of year, and not only was it dark and narrow and horrifying enough already but when I went, there was a section where we were single file, holding hands to navigate through a cramped labyrinth, and the girl in front of me LET GO OF MY HAND can you believe
I once had the opportunity to go in a cave on a school camp. it involved shimmying through a very tight gap, and at 15 years old i knew that would significantly increase my chances of dying in a truly awful manner, especially considering i live on an island formed by two tectonic plates pushing against each other; there's a lot of seismic activity and i wasnt about to risk that shit. proud to say i did not go in the cave and i have zero regrets, i dont care how pretty the big cave at the end of the tunnel is, im not putting my life in danger for that.
Nice catalogue of terrifying caving deaths. One more for the list of "cavers who were interred in the cave they died in because their body was (at least at the time) unrecoverable" is James Mitchell in Schroeder's Pants Cave, who died while dangling on a jammed climbing rope partway down a 75ft drop with a torrential near-freezing waterfall pouring over him. (Don't go in caves.)
I remember reading that report in American Cave Accidents (annual NSS publication).
31:10
Thia cave rescue - Richard Harris - Competent and practicing in both cave diving and anesthesia, bet that crossover in disciplines rarer than a Silicon Valley Unicorn , or a literal Unicorn.
Who doesn't like exploring dark and damp holes with your body?
That's how it goes in prison.
You conspicuously left out the 'cold' part.
"You're gonna have to work hard to find a normal QB in the NFL"
There's abnormal, and then there's Baker "I've seen a UFO" "My stag party was a Bigfoot hunting expedition" Mayfield. Sometimes I hate being a Browns fan...
They love putting the abnormal QBs in commercials too. Drew Brees sells pyramid schemes in his spare time. I know he retired last year but just gotta throw out there that he’s a douche. And speaking of douches in commercials Aaron Rodgers disowned his whole family over money, is an emotionally abusive person and goes around acting like a sixteen year who smoked his first doobie ten minutes ago and has to tell the world the wonders of legalization. Oh and also something something “immunized.” Carson Wentz is about as fake of a person as you can get who hides behind religion to cover up what an ass he is and gets a hard on every time he shoots an animal and has to tell the whole world about it. I seen through his act about year before it came out he can’t handle having a backup behind him on the depth chart because he knows he will inevitably choke, lose his job and cry about it. And as a Birds fan it is also known that Nick Foles has an abnormally large appendage that drags along with him when he walks and Tom Brady is allergic to shaking his hand. Go Birds!!!
Ufos are real
Thank Christ Russel Wilson has the good sense to stay quiet.
22:23 "I don't ever want compound words"
I phreacted strongly with this.
I had an out of body experience from the terror of describing the guy sliding head first into Ed's Push. Thanks alice.
Remembering a terrifying story my dad (an electrical engineer) once told me about when he got locked into a then-drained-for-maintenance tunnel for a hydro dam by someone who saw the open grate, fixed it, and then went on their lunch break. This was like a cave in that it was really dark presumably and also water was coming in through the walls and steadily filling it in high pressure jets because this tunnel is supposed to have water in it 24/7 and apparently doesn't like it when it doesn't. He survived, or I wouldn't be here, but he had to travel all the way to the other end of the kilometer-long shaft in these conditions and then swim up through the area where all the fish get trapped i.e. through a ton of large eels.
And this is why tag-in-tag-out was invented
Fuck, I love looking into caving disasters when I'm anxious- been my thing since high school. They terrify me so it distracts my anxiety from whatever is bugging me onto that topic.
It's snowing again in Texas and I'm terrified of a repeat of last year.
Thank you three so much for somehow posting exactly what I needed today 😭
I know, parasocial relationship and you don't know I exist, but this episode brought me great joy today. Thank you.
Hard same. I look at all the worst shit when I'm anxious.
there is no parasocial relationship
we already know who you are 👁👄👁
If you like cave horror I recommend The Magnus Archives episode 15: Lost Johns’ Cave.
It’s comforting to know It Could Always Be Worse
Looking forward to the upcoming next episode on the Boston Molasses flood.
Me too, the odds of WTYP yanking our chains twice the same way are too low to expect anything different.
Fun fact: one term for underwater cave diving is a "night probe," at least as far as Clive Cussler claimed in his novel of the same name. I read that book as a teenager, and the book described how underwater cave divers who had gotten lost and drowned had been found later with their fingers shredded to the bone when they tried in desperation to claw their way out through solid rock. That was about the moment that I decided that I had absolutely no need to go anywhere near a cave, let alone a cave full of water.
I've been putting this one off for ages, which is a shame because I adore Devon. It's just literally my worst nightmare.
Edit: This is literally the worst episode ever. (Not a diss at the show it's just fucking terrifying, I'm not going to sleep tonight)
While most of the hosts and audience will be upset by Cave Horrors, I was desensitized to them at a young age because I earned the caving merit badge, so instead of being horrified, I will choose to be nostalgic for times gone by and deaths that could have been, if only I had been dumber
Another side of that coin is that there's also cave deaths that weren't, because of people who are careful to encourage safe caving practices.
This was the just the perfect weird mood chaser to the Jacob Gellar Fear Of Depths video
As someone from Bucks County, although there's some interesting things here, there's too many Trumpnuts to bother saving it. You have my permission to annex it into Liamtopia if I can live there too