Really a fan of "i made a cool thing, let me explain it in exactly how long it takes to explain it" content. No padding or crust, just some good build ideas.
I take deep offense to your use of the word good build ideas in this comment. I think, ingenious torturous, or masochistic, would be a more apt description.
This is very much a "You 'can' do it, but 'should' you?" type of game mechanic. lol Though to be fair, I intend to abuse it when I get back to Nullius later this winter.
I can say with absolute certainty that this has *not* always been possible. I experimented with the idea when individual pipe pieces could hold their own type of fluid, and the system could get stuck in a number of different ways, like pipes holding 0.0 fluid, which the pumps registered as 0 and therefore refused to pump.
Yeah, initially in Factorio mixing fluids led to a big mess that required ripping up every contaminated pipe with the unwanted fluid. Then after an update, they made it impossible to place a pipe with a fluid to a pipe/inlet/outlet that didn't match. 2.0 has changed all that.
it has always been possible, it just depended on the update order (see: order the entities were placed) of the pipes, and so was super duper extra jank to set up. there was a Space Exploration player, Runway i think, that had a single soup pipe powering their whole Nauvis base and they managed to get to space "just fine". for the average player, the 0.0 fluid pipes did make it awful to attempt to use (i tried at some point too).
Oh that is so sexy. I haven't felt this way since I discovered sushi belts, dirty but very excited to try it. I'm dealing with heating on Aquilo right now and this would've saved me a ton of time dealing with the pipe nightmare I ended up with.
I have a space ship dedicated to making legendary circuits and on it I have a massive amount of space dedicated to weaving pipes of all the required liquids(steam, water, heavy oil, light oil, petroleum) so this is ridiculously helpful!
I tired to build something like this in 1.0 and it was so cursed. It almost worked, but occasionally fluid would just get stuck somewhere for no discernible reason. It's cool to see this is possible.
I don't think the video covers it explicitly, but I believe this is the "theory of operation" on the input side: Assembly machines (assemblers, oil refineries, etc) that take fluid inputs 'latch' that input. Whenever there is a sought-for fluid in the input pipe, the machine will sip some until it is full, and fluid will never flow back out the input into the attached pipe. With the described circuit conditions, the input-side pumps are direct to add fluid until the machines are full of that respective ingredient, then afterwards drain the pipe of the input fluid. Since fluid types can't mix, this forces round-robin operation even without explicit synchronization between the fluid pumps. If multiple input-side pumps try to add their fluid at the same time, one will win. Pipe draining is somewhat less of a problem on the input side than the output side because not-full assemblers passively suck up the appropriate fluid from their input slots. Since the pump circuit conditions should be set to never _quite_ fill up the machines, they'll assist in pipe-draining.
Spaceship designs are actually surprisingly not as space-limited as you'd think, at least when it comes to ship performance. Only width matters. You could make your ship super duper long for more cargo space and it'd just take a bit longer to accelerate. Though, I guess you might get a cheaper ship out of it?
@manoflead643 I mean I got a ship with 36 engines, not legendary normal, and a top speed of around 250. And it is very chunky. It is plenty fast for me. I could just replace them with legendary, and then I should see an increase of around 150%
You don't need five layers of pipes to connect fuel refineries in 2.0. You can now flip refineries and chemical plants. Try it out, there's now several highly efficient ways to connect rows of them that are only as deep as the number of inputs/outputs.
I tried this, it was not possible pre expansion. Simply because we did not have filters on pumps and fluids were simulated. You could try to connect a pump to read fluid contents of a tank and only work when a particular fluid was non zero. However, fluids have float values so when a fluid dropped below 1 unit the circuit value would round down to zero, deactivating the pump before it could remove all the fluid and jamming the pipeline. If you successfully managed to solve the pump issue, you still had to deal with the fluid physics. What would then happen is that a fluid would drop to 0.1 units and not flow, once again jamming the pipeline. I want to emphasize that it would work but there was no way to guarantee it would never jam and would always fail after some finite number of cycles. Both of the failure points could be solved with some wierd designs but not simultaneously.
We need to be able to put a wire on a pipe and be able to view the content of the entire network or the current stretch of pipe (divided by pumps, tanks or machines)
So that means you can run the entire factory with two pipe systems, one for outputs (that leads to a centralized buffer tank array), and an inputs pipe system?
Thank you for calling out the terrible changes to pumps. I'm hoping that the more people talk about it, the better chance we have of getting Wube to change pumps for the better.
hymm, putting light and heavy oil on one pipe and gas on the second could work really well if im not mistaken. Less drip time (since you're queuing 2 fluids not 3), and fits the pipes snugly in the 2 space gap between refineries and beacons
[Spoilers] I think that this is how it should’ve been done on aquillo and adding a filter recipe that takes in mixed fluid and seperates somthing from the mix, for example everything to water and everting but water
This may actually be useful on Aquilo since you need to heat everything, and the usual underground pipe setup doesn't have enough room to run heat pipes to everything without modifications
Would it be simpler to suggest that your pump's fill limit should be set to the ratio of pipe contents minus some headroom? For instance, I'll say 1200 per fluid in the system, which would be 6k on an advanced oil processing setup. From there, it's 20 crude oil, 10 water, 11 petroleum gas, 9 light oil and 5 heavy oil per second. The closest whole number that divides into the remaining 19k is 422, but we'll stick with 400 for simplicity. That means our pumps would allow 400 x fluid in, or 8k crude oil, 4k water, 4.4k petroleum gas, 3.6k light oil and 2k heavy oil. You would then need to balance this anytime a different operation is performed on the same pipe. I guess the bigger question for me is how would you separate it out after you do this?
The water having 3 pumps go into one, does that not limit the water? Why the extra pumps if you are going to take 3 input pumps and put it through one pump to get into the tank? (at 0:36 )
As near as I can tell, it's way faster to fill a pipe extent than it is to void it. I can't even be sure that more pumps speeds up voiding a pipe but it's the only thing you can even do to try and make it faster. A pipe extent can take on the full 1200u/s of a fluid that a pump can offer instantly but when it comes to removing that 1200u/s from the extent it seems to do it in incrementally, with the flow rate getting slower the closer to empty it gets. Because of this, supplying fluid is almost never the slower half of the process.
@@InferAGoodTime So you are pulling in 1200 x3 water per second from the lake, then restricting that to 1200 max by having one pump just before the tank.
i've built a thing similar to that fluid level reference for my science packs on Fulgora while my friend on Nauvis was still working on making a spaceship (the ship I used to get there got destroyed shortly after arrival)
All I know is that they fk with my piping on space platforms, regardless of whether they're actually connected or not. Mixing blue and red. And it's very annoying.
while sure maybe it's slower, i dont necessarily agree that it's not that much different in difficulty. it's a little bit of circuitry, but overall the pipes are a lot simpler to understand and follow since... well there isnt a cacophony of undergrounds going everywhere, crossing over each other, taking up huge amounts of space, and needing to underground in various places to not cross over pipes... because this deliberately wants to cross over pipes lol. and once you have the mechanism in place to actually "soup" your pipe, there isn't much more to understand. "oh, this fluid is going through the pipe now. now that one." not that bad tbh
If you want to be truly horrified look up how they use pipelines in reality. It's called "batching" and they just start sending the new product down the pipe and use careful timing to divert it into the right storage tanks on the receiving end.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Move aside sushi belt, soup pipe meta coming in.
We eating good oil gumbo tonight
@@mr.toothbrush6628that's a stew not a soup.
Stew up next
jamba juice
This might work with a foundry
Your sins have not gone unnoticed
He was so preoccupied with whether or not he could, that he didn't stop to think if he should.
✋
We know
legendary pumps have a use after all
Congratulations they made another level in Dante’s inferno just for you
Because he's an intelligent engineer.... Ok.
@@tylermcnally8232 some engineers deserve hell too
It's precisely because he's an intelligent engineer that Dante's inferno needs another layer @@tylermcnally8232
Factorio hell expanding
This will help my spaceship designs become even more cursed.
I wish i could measure the contents of thrusters ;_;
It's extra herretical, chaos undivided will be pleased.
@@maxmustermann5932 Can't you just calculate it with combinators? It'd be a pain in the ass though.
@bilskirnir_ Gotta drop some blueprints if you're gonna say that!
No need to imagine engineering war crimes when pump filters are now real.
Nice vid.
I... Had not even seen that filter button 😂
Really a fan of "i made a cool thing, let me explain it in exactly how long it takes to explain it" content. No padding or crust, just some good build ideas.
Hear hear!!
“Crust” made my mind go places I wouldn’t go with a gun
I take deep offense to your use of the word good build ideas in this comment. I think, ingenious torturous, or masochistic, would be a more apt description.
This is the kind of thing you blueprint, then paste in to every single multiplayer server you can get into. :evilgrin:
This is the Factorio equivalent of self-modifying code, literally unmaintainable.
This is very much a "You 'can' do it, but 'should' you?" type of game mechanic. lol Though to be fair, I intend to abuse it when I get back to Nullius later this winter.
if/when Nullius updates to 2.0...
Well, that's enough Heresy for the day. I'm calling the Inquisition.
Promote this man so he never cooks again.
Bravo!
This is the coolest thing that I will never try that I have ever seen. Please keep making more Factorio content.
Wake up babe, we got Multiplexers in factorio
Please.... Your a single incel don't lie.
This now with the item to fluid mod and we have the "single pipe challange"
that will be... extremely unperformant
@@PeterZaitcev for you
I can say with absolute certainty that this has *not* always been possible. I experimented with the idea when individual pipe pieces could hold their own type of fluid, and the system could get stuck in a number of different ways, like pipes holding 0.0 fluid, which the pumps registered as 0 and therefore refused to pump.
Yeah, initially in Factorio mixing fluids led to a big mess that required ripping up every contaminated pipe with the unwanted fluid.
Then after an update, they made it impossible to place a pipe with a fluid to a pipe/inlet/outlet that didn't match. 2.0 has changed all that.
@@Whistler-007 it was ""impossible"", but if you just used a blueprint it would still let you do it
it has always been possible, it just depended on the update order (see: order the entities were placed) of the pipes, and so was super duper extra jank to set up. there was a Space Exploration player, Runway i think, that had a single soup pipe powering their whole Nauvis base and they managed to get to space "just fine".
for the average player, the 0.0 fluid pipes did make it awful to attempt to use (i tried at some point too).
You made me cry
This is very interesting. The inefficiency of this solution can be somewhat mitigated with quality (or modded) pumps.
Disgustingly genius
Oh that is so sexy. I haven't felt this way since I discovered sushi belts, dirty but very excited to try it. I'm dealing with heating on Aquilo right now and this would've saved me a ton of time dealing with the pipe nightmare I ended up with.
This specific use of "Dirty but very excited to try it" strikes both fear and vitriol in me
Отличный дизайн. Наконец-то у нас будет правильное управление жидкостями в Sea Block.
That’s cross-contamination my dude 😂
you inspired me to rebuild my piping to use same channels for clean and waste water! very cool!
I have a space ship dedicated to making legendary circuits and on it I have a massive amount of space dedicated to weaving pipes of all the required liquids(steam, water, heavy oil, light oil, petroleum) so this is ridiculously helpful!
ludicrously awesome, well done sir!
I tired to build something like this in 1.0 and it was so cursed. It almost worked, but occasionally fluid would just get stuck somewhere for no discernible reason. It's cool to see this is possible.
This game never stops to amaze me with its mechanics and creative solutions
I don't think the video covers it explicitly, but I believe this is the "theory of operation" on the input side:
Assembly machines (assemblers, oil refineries, etc) that take fluid inputs 'latch' that input. Whenever there is a sought-for fluid in the input pipe, the machine will sip some until it is full, and fluid will never flow back out the input into the attached pipe. With the described circuit conditions, the input-side pumps are direct to add fluid until the machines are full of that respective ingredient, then afterwards drain the pipe of the input fluid.
Since fluid types can't mix, this forces round-robin operation even without explicit synchronization between the fluid pumps. If multiple input-side pumps try to add their fluid at the same time, one will win.
Pipe draining is somewhat less of a problem on the input side than the output side because not-full assemblers passively suck up the appropriate fluid from their input slots. Since the pump circuit conditions should be set to never _quite_ fill up the machines, they'll assist in pipe-draining.
This might be great for spaceship designs, sending both fuels in the same pipe.
Spaceship designs are actually surprisingly not as space-limited as you'd think, at least when it comes to ship performance. Only width matters. You could make your ship super duper long for more cargo space and it'd just take a bit longer to accelerate.
Though, I guess you might get a cheaper ship out of it?
@manoflead643 I mean I got a ship with 36 engines, not legendary normal, and a top speed of around 250. And it is very chunky.
It is plenty fast for me. I could just replace them with legendary, and then I should see an increase of around 150%
@@taiwanisacountry Very fast ship design is a long stick with engines stacked vertically, because that way avoids space drag
@@taiwanisacountry 36?? I am quite happy with my design which has 3, how wide is your ship lol
@TallMoose pretty wide.
i threw up in my mouth a little bit
I hate this but this is brilliant!
god i hate this, good job tho :D
This is incredible, never would have thought of something like this myself.
You don't need five layers of pipes to connect fuel refineries in 2.0. You can now flip refineries and chemical plants. Try it out, there's now several highly efficient ways to connect rows of them that are only as deep as the number of inputs/outputs.
Someone tell @DocJade
This might come in handy for his automall
(I'd do it myself, but I'm not on Discord)
"It's inadviceable" should have been the first sentence
My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
We got sushi-belt pipes in Factorio before GTA 6. What the fuck is happening in the year of our lord 2024
I tried this, it was not possible pre expansion. Simply because we did not have filters on pumps and fluids were simulated.
You could try to connect a pump to read fluid contents of a tank and only work when a particular fluid was non zero. However, fluids have float values so when a fluid dropped below 1 unit the circuit value would round down to zero, deactivating the pump before it could remove all the fluid and jamming the pipeline.
If you successfully managed to solve the pump issue, you still had to deal with the fluid physics. What would then happen is that a fluid would drop to 0.1 units and not flow, once again jamming the pipeline.
I want to emphasize that it would work but there was no way to guarantee it would never jam and would always fail after some finite number of cycles. Both of the failure points could be solved with some wierd designs but not simultaneously.
We need to be able to put a wire on a pipe and be able to view the content of the entire network or the current stretch of pipe (divided by pumps, tanks or machines)
So that means you can run the entire factory with two pipe systems, one for outputs (that leads to a centralized buffer tank array), and an inputs pipe system?
Thanks. I hate it
Thank you for calling out the terrible changes to pumps.
I'm hoping that the more people talk about it, the better chance we have of getting Wube to change pumps for the better.
i dont use pumps anymore, just when the game forces me for an extended pipe segment or on trains, but yeah, f* pumps
1:25
I observed the pump speed increase to 1200/s only after the attached tank reached 5k. So 1/5 + saturation allows full throughput
The light to fluid reference is freaking kool. I was using nixie tubes but lights are way kool.
Amazing. I love this
I unironically used this design on Fulgora because I did not leave enough space to upgrade to the better coal liquefaction
Great video, came to understand if there were downsides after seeing nefrum do it.
hymm, putting light and heavy oil on one pipe and gas on the second could work really well if im not mistaken. Less drip time (since you're queuing 2 fluids not 3), and fits the pipes snugly in the 2 space gap between refineries and beacons
Another day i'm thankful to still be playing on 1.1
Now i want to create it in multiplayer with friends to see their reaction
[Spoilers] I think that this is how it should’ve been done on aquillo and adding a filter recipe that takes in mixed fluid and seperates somthing from the mix, for example everything to water and everting but water
This may actually be useful on Aquilo since you need to heat everything, and the usual underground pipe setup doesn't have enough room to run heat pipes to everything without modifications
Would it be simpler to suggest that your pump's fill limit should be set to the ratio of pipe contents minus some headroom? For instance, I'll say 1200 per fluid in the system, which would be 6k on an advanced oil processing setup. From there, it's 20 crude oil, 10 water, 11 petroleum gas, 9 light oil and 5 heavy oil per second. The closest whole number that divides into the remaining 19k is 422, but we'll stick with 400 for simplicity. That means our pumps would allow 400 x fluid in, or 8k crude oil, 4k water, 4.4k petroleum gas, 3.6k light oil and 2k heavy oil. You would then need to balance this anytime a different operation is performed on the same pipe.
I guess the bigger question for me is how would you separate it out after you do this?
How to make life more difficult for no good reason.
Ah I remember doing some sushi pipes in factorio space exploration
The water having 3 pumps go into one, does that not limit the water? Why the extra pumps if you are going to take 3 input pumps and put it through one pump to get into the tank? (at 0:36 )
As near as I can tell, it's way faster to fill a pipe extent than it is to void it. I can't even be sure that more pumps speeds up voiding a pipe but it's the only thing you can even do to try and make it faster.
A pipe extent can take on the full 1200u/s of a fluid that a pump can offer instantly but when it comes to removing that 1200u/s from the extent it seems to do it in incrementally, with the flow rate getting slower the closer to empty it gets. Because of this, supplying fluid is almost never the slower half of the process.
@@InferAGoodTime So you are pulling in 1200 x3 water per second from the lake, then restricting that to 1200 max by having one pump just before the tank.
@@ingiford175 Ah, I... see your point. I guess the old habits just took over
We had sushi belts and now we have cocktail pipes
Especially given the subject this guy sounds like How it's Made. It can't just be me.
i've built a thing similar to that fluid level reference for my science packs on Fulgora while my friend on Nauvis was still working on making a spaceship
(the ship I used to get there got destroyed shortly after arrival)
you've forsaken us all
This should be a menu simulation
I was using this since a few years, didn’t know it was unusual 😅
Thinking about that Nauvis jungle juice
What government agency do I report this to?
This will be amazingly awesome when playing pYanodons.
This is abominable and I’m tempted to give it a try
Is it intended or ist just bug ? i tried it and it work nicely and with normal pumps.
Somebody was bound to do this
what have you DONE
So… I like the song, what is it?
pretty cool idea but it fell apart once i threw in a beacon. theres too much delay switching fluids.
This has a potential on the Aquilo, I think. Even with limited throughput.
All I know is that they fk with my piping on space platforms, regardless of whether they're actually connected or not. Mixing blue and red. And it's very annoying.
brilliant
Factorio Jungle Juice Challenge?
wow good job
something similar to this is useful for fluid fuel sushi in pyanodons
while sure maybe it's slower, i dont necessarily agree that it's not that much different in difficulty. it's a little bit of circuitry, but overall the pipes are a lot simpler to understand and follow since... well there isnt a cacophony of undergrounds going everywhere, crossing over each other, taking up huge amounts of space, and needing to underground in various places to not cross over pipes... because this deliberately wants to cross over pipes lol. and once you have the mechanism in place to actually "soup" your pipe, there isn't much more to understand. "oh, this fluid is going through the pipe now. now that one." not that bad tbh
If you want to be truly horrified look up how they use pipelines in reality. It's called "batching" and they just start sending the new product down the pipe and use careful timing to divert it into the right storage tanks on the receiving end.
i find it hard to accept that a pump can identify the liquid and only draw the specified one
This is 1000% more work then adding nother pipe...
get legendary pumps my guy
非常有趣！谢谢
Single pipe bus...
I saw one pipe for all outputs and thought that's neat. Then you proceeded to direct my attention to the input mixing oil and water...🤮
i was wondering, why would a fluid pump need a filter? what kind of sick twisted mind would try to use a pipe for multiple fluids...
Cool but I won’t use it, the factory must grow
First of all, jesus christ. Second of all, is that FF15 music?
Yep, the Hammerhead theme. I figured a gas station theme fit the bill.
Horrifying
Sushi pipes are slow!!!!!
Ueueueuuuughghhhhhh
I'm not one to kink shame... but eww.