I again and again quote my favorite movie line: "it takes courage to care". I feel like a lot of people are too scared of becoming the butt of the joke to take anything seriously. We're just a bunch of cynical conwards trying to get whatever validation we can at the expense of people we have no personal attachment to at this point. I'm at the stage when I feel respect for people who are considered cringe solely for being genuinely and openly excited about stuff.
"Brutal honesty" is a lazy scapegoat that people use to disguise covert bullying as "just tryna look out for you", twisting the narrative to make themselves look good and you look bad for reacting too sensitively. It's manipulative and gaslighting. Someone who's actually trying to look out for you will still care if what they said has made you upset, and not demonize you for getting upset.
10000% that is the absolute most important astute point of this video the rest of this is feedback specific to the channel/creator: a) you clearly are very intelligent and contemplative, with a genuine sensibility that approaches this topic with authentic care and consideration 👍 das good b) some of that gets lost in the lack of linear logic of explaining the point of the info, however; which could be a stylistic choice of employing a more candid stream-of-consciousness, but I found it a little tricky to really have specific take-aways of a concise idea beyond “people be acting up in comments too much, and das not good… “ 👆which is funny because there is a lot of good points shared, with anecdotal examples and what not, almost as if too many without enough concise focus… I guess it’s just a stylistic thing where it was a more ‘feeler’ expression of the topic rather than pragmatic logical explanation c) so in conclusion, I would just like to reiterate some of the LOGICAL observations you made - which I think account for the main comment section phenomenon 1. people comment without watching the whole video, OR ‘just here for the comments’ is simply the digital public square and the “video content” can often be reduced to a fleeting topic of convo for the masses to chat about 👆specifically in regard to responding to absurdity with absurdity, which an unsettling majority of “content” is vapidly trivial and mainly just attention seeking 2. along the same lines about the digital public square - even if the content actually qualifies as thought-provoking, again still the same holds true that the comment section is simply a proverbial meeting grounds wherein the masses seek the interactive experience amongst each other, as much if not more importantly than just the consumption of static content by itself etc etc etc … I think that is pretty much the basic logic of what goes on in the comment section. the content is often reduced merely to being a topic of conversation for the meeting grounds where people enjoy the shared experience of connection and jokes… the end the one specific personal anecdote that I found truly novel and fascinating was how Chandler represented a certain understanding of a western archetype for you… that was a very interesting cultural point 👍 ps I think a lot of people liked the “don’t look up” movie that you were ironically hating on at the end … 🤔
it reminds me of how sometimes i’ll see a majority of comments responding to other comments that are supposedly rude, but i can’t find the rude ones they’re referring to (if that makes sense)
i think about this a lot. i guess you miss some of the 'big discussions' this way but sorting the comments by "most recent" makes me feel just a little less trapped somehow lol
Yeah.. I noticed the comments shift around during videos to match what part of the video I’m at and it’s a little weird! I don’t know when they started doing that but. Just. Weird.
I've seen so many people say, "It's not being rude, it's be brutally honest." I have also seen people straight up say they should bring back bullying. When did being kind and considerate to people go out of style? When did it become cringe to follow the rules I learned in pre-school? "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all." and "treat others as you would want to be treated." It's sad how little people follow those anymore.
“Bring back bullying” is the shit people who weren’t bullied say. It never stopped. They don’t fully appreciate how detrimental bullying is because they either went under the radar, or they were the bullies at
And you know those are the same people who if someone was rude to them or bullied them, they'd be the loudest saying how "everyone's being mean to me."
A lot of people have and were nice to others but the than got stomped on by people who know felt entitled and righteous. People could once disagree with each and have discourse with no bad feelings but that changed and now all push back labeled as "hate speech" or other heavy language when I reality is just criticism. Everything got turned up a notch by people who lack the social skills and awareness that light discourse and criticism is not actual hate or meanness.
@@Gloomdrake It's probably also said by people who were bullies themselves and want to convince themselves that what the did to others was actually "Good."
I feel so vindicated that people are finally picking up on this trend. I've been thinking about it for a while and have been told I'm being too sensitive and "what do you expect, it's the internet duh". Ok well I actually don't find it normal for people to be so unnecessarily rude and cynical for no reason
It’s a little scary, because I remember this exact phenomenon back in the early-mid 2010s. This might not be something that can be…fixed? It might just be an endless cycle we’ll always have to deal with.
This can also apply to being a woman in gaming spaces too man like people will strong arm you into taking casual abuses from others like Why tf is this so normalized. Can we just be nice n play the game Im so tired
The internet is honestly horrendous in so many ways that no one seems to care about tbh, not only is it horrible and vindictive, it and plenty of people on it are also extremely shallow, extremely arrogant despite being very unwise leading to them thinking they know everything and then being even more vindictive to anyone who disagrees with them which also just drives polarization. Also you can kind of tell who in real life uses the internet a lot because they exhibit some of the same behaviours and definitely have all of the opinions that match perfectly with internet people, and the problem with that is that the internet clearly does influence people more than not at all which isn't that great to hear considering it's just getting more and more grasp over humanity as each generation comes about.
Male conservative movement. So basically you saw them normalizing saying very questionable things, to woman or black ppl idk. Even sexual jokes towards young girls.
Although I completely agree with the ironic response epidemic in comment sections, I actually remember this being a thing before social media - specifically as an American preteen/teen. I remember not feeling like I could have deep conversations, or if I liked something like a specific singer or book, or shared a song, it was discussed with only my closest friends because everyone else would be like “I don’t get it” and would make jokes about it. Americans are very uncomfortable with what they don’t know and the auto response is self deprecation or making a quippy response. Instead of inquiring or looking things up, the it’s more common that people will pretend they know or pretend it doesn’t matter, even though it matters to you. But this has spread so intensely online it feels like even intentionally positive comments are a joke with no depth. Or they’re flattering without any kind of real feedback. I feel for artists who crave the experience of seeing their art being openly, expressively appreciated instead of seeing a quip.
Yeah this was definitely a feeling when I was a preteen/teen, too, but that makes me wonder if it's just the result of low emotional intelligence and a desire for attention, which are both traits you have in your teen years and eventually grow out of. Like, not to be a "kids these days" kinda guy, but if there were less teens online, maybe the problem would be less noticeable? Or is it more that the teens have saturated the internet so much that adults have started devolving (assuming they ever grew out of their teen angst traits in the first place). Or, like you said, is it a predominantly American issue? Is the internet the same way in German or Japanese, for example?
And this is not happening only online. I notice this behavior in my friends (and even myself). It has become acceptable among really young people to be rude and ironic out of nothing, even with people who you like. But of course, there are limits in real life. I have a friend who became so insufferable with her negative comments about everyone and everything that's hard to have a conversation with her. She thinks it's cool to be so sarcastic and negative and she won't change. I'm starting to keep a certain distance cause I can't stand her anymore.
Right??? It's like some people think they live in a sitcom and blurt out joke after joke after snarky comment. In real life, this doesn't earn you any award for the coolest person in the room, it just makes it difficult to interact with you. In the age of memes and internet/pop culture, it's easy to be quippy and sarcastic, and all the more honorable not to go for the low-hanging fruit and actually make an effort to connect, be vulnerable, and listen.
@@accordingtoalina as a 41 year old woman who has been very blunt my whole life, there is a way to do so, and a difference, that doesn't make someone feel bad. And, even then, some people just can't stand being faced with their own image in the mirror. Being blunt allows you to determine who you can trust and have on your team quicker. If they are not open to any criticism or critiquing whatsoever (and most people aren't), then that's a person you really don't want on your team. Of course, I'm not talking about random YT comments from strangers, though. It's a conversation that deserves more nuance.
Male conservative movement. So basically you saw them normalizing saying very questionable things, to woman or other ppl idk. Other race. Even sexual jokes towards young girls.
I think a lot of people feel it's too vulnerable to be sincere. Even to sincerely enjoy things without being critical. It's sad. Also thank you for the term micro fringe - I didn't know I needed that word but I absolutely did
I used to be super mean online, until one day someone replied to my sarcastic comment genuinely, they told me a story and they thanked me. I realized it felt good to be kind and get positive feedback. I went back and changed the comment so it didn’t come across as rude anymore, it made me never want to be hurtful again. I comment with the thought of how someone would feel if they saw my comment, life is hard as it is, I don’t want to make it worse.
I remember I was at my worst back when I would scroll through Instagram during the lunch break at work - I had this one interaction with a troll that left me feeling like I genuinely wanted to tear that person down, and I realised, that’s not healthy. I needed something to change if I was getting to that level, and ever since I’ve been trying to limit my scrolling, and really only comment if I have something to say.
People like my mother keep quoting "sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me." But words - certain words above all - CAN go FAR deeper than any blade.
The thing about the comment section being different for the same video blew my mind. Like am I surprised that instagram did this, but I never thought that the “for you” concept would go this far. The idea of a “true” commonly shared reality is truly dead.
Arguably it always has been, especially before the printing press was invented. We were enjoying a brief stint of time where mostly everyone followed the same sources and trusted those sources, when historically that has never universally been the case. I feel like we go through information upheavals that have profound knock-on effects everytime we invent a new communication medium. Printing press? Enabled the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment movement, which resulted in a period of war and upheaval for many nations. Telegragh? Enabled the quickening of Native American persecution and helped enable to situations that led to WW1 being what it was. Television? Led to the fairness doctrine era of top-down low-salience information sharing and arguably helped lead to the post-1989 rules based international order we all grew up in. It also led to alot of informational control in countries like Germany, Spain, Russia, and China during the 20th century. In my opinion, Social Media has caused another upheaval, and were living through it. We dont know what the end result is, and I think that subconciously terrifies alot of people.
I used to frequent a political-oriented blog which had its own rule for commenting: people were limited to 3 comments per post. I think this went some way to reducing online abuse: a key aspect of flame wars is the desire to get the last word as a form of victory. By rationing discourse, each comment is increased in value, and the poster has to think if he wants to expend his assets on *this*. No one is going to post "First!" or "Don't care" or pedantic grammar corrections if they know that that will be the limit of what they can contribute.
Sadly, this will probably never be implemented on a wide scale because sites like UA-cam want "engagement" - more comments means more ad views and money in their pocket. On that note if they really cared about the quality of discourse they would have more even-handed moderation instead of allowing alt-right trolls and pornbots to run wild while moderating innocent comments and demonetizing people for nebulous reasons.
I think you made such an important point, Alina, about the rise of anti-intellectualism. I always feel that the president-elect when describing himself as the 'smartest', the 'best', and the 'most successful' does so whilst trolling those who really are the smartest etc. That anti-intellectualism, lack of seriousness and use of trolling and 'it was a joke' approach has now been normalised and promoted by the most powerful man on earth.
The orange man has an effective method of diplomacy with foreign countries, which Id have to argue it really does make him the best man for the position hes going into. But he is not 'normalising' the behavior amongst people, Americans have always been like that. Technology has been contributing to troll culture more than the orange. Media also plays a hand at excaserbating it as well too.
I feel like people in general are losing their social skills. Even in person people that are virtual strangers to me say some really sarcastic and rude things. It’s very frustrating as somebody who is autistic and had to work very hard to learn. Good social skills. I just feel like people don’t care to put in the same effort that I do, not to mention that sometimes the things they say are very hurtful
And oh this issue of anti-intellectualism as a symptom of fomo is so true and so funny. because it's so funny to open the comments of a letterboxd video for example (a platform focused on movies and cinema) and read people accusing a director or actor of talking about a specific movie to sound smart when having some knowledge about cinema is basically a part of their job
Girl I feel that. I got that crap when I used english to Talk about my Uni classes. Im German, so we're talking Germany. My Sister and dad specifically, both of whom speak english, would ask me about Uni, about lectures and assignments, and THEN lay into me for using english vocabulary to Talk about it. Because "cant you speak Like a normal Person or do you have to move to Berlin?" The Kicker? My Majors were english and Media studies. English was obviously.... In English. They would ask me about linguistics Modules that I just cannot discuss in standard German. Because my major is english. So thats the terminology I know. In the end i simply stopped talking about Uni at Home, except to mention the odd good Grade or Deadline i Had coming Up.
@annabeinglazy5580 Thanks for sharing I feel so seen right now. I just don't understand what my problem is with that language. I can understand people easily, but it's so hard for me to express my own thoughts
Glad this is finally getting addressed. It's been *especially* prevalent in fandom spaces, and the amount of overseas creators who've been driven away from English speakers (especially teenagers) because this is primarily a US thing have been far too many. The casual threats of violence/death directed at a creator or their work, or threatening to do it to themselves, or calling people/characters slurs that we've been trying to get rid of for a few decades, *in lieu of a genuine compliment,* is honestly terrifying. You can't really tell anymore if they actually mean any of that or not, and they have the gall to act surprised when an overseas creator either panics or outright blocks them in response.
Kids are now being raised by the internet culture more than their own parents. Politeness and poise used to be something deeply instilled in kids by the parents before the iPad kids became a thing. Now people are so comfortable behind an anonymous profile they can finally be the meany they know they’d get punched for if they were like that in person. Then the younger generations raised by the internet see that and are influenced by that, and to fit in, repeat the cycle. Hence why it is far less common for people to be rude like that in public.
It’s so exhausting. I have social anxiety and insecurities, and being mocked by strangers online for showing kindness is so humiliating. I try not to comment as much as possible on my personal accounts solely out of fear of judgment because people are so blatantly cruel now, I expect people to say the worst. I’m scared to share my thoughts on anything 😭
That's why I make any profiles I comment from as anonymous as possible now. So in the inevitable case that someone maliciously disagrees with something I've said they have no personal information about me and I feel shielded rather than exposed and attacked for having an opinion or stating a fact that I've researched
i really really liked this video. i've been feeling this way for a while and notice myself getting pissed off with takes i find unnecessarily mean, so it's nice to feel validated about that. but this video also highlighted some ways that i have also tried to be the funny guy or been snarky for likes, and made me realize the times i've been hypocritical about what i preach
Don’t beat yourself up about it - I’m making use of irony and sarcasm in this very video as well, because it’s so ingrained in the way we speak. And also, sometimes it’s useful and fun!! Let’s not forget that using metaphorical or hypebolic language here and there is completely normal. It’s only a problem when taken to extremes.
Agree, yeah toxic people exist and they can become rude for simple making the smallest comment/critic, but there're still people who straight up will say the most diabolical thing and called you soft if you get offended
I feel you. Everyone is fake. It's the two sides of a coin: Fakeness from the overly "nice" people who just want something out of us vs the cynical, crude, & rude people online who think that they're being more "real" by being a jack🫏 Both are fake and scared to face their true feelings and insecurities.
Grew up with parents who were like this, surrounded by "friends" (read: BULLIES) like this, in person, and honestly...IT WAS ALWAYS LIKE THIS. My wife was the first person I met who refused to be mean (and in turn, she was absolutely steamrolled by the mean people in HER family). We grew up around shrieking, raging right wing MTG type older women who'd sneer at my wife and tell her that love isn't real, and that she should shut up and make money for my parents to prove she was good enough, who simultaneously bullied my wife for wearing modest clothing but also for wearing a swimsuit that wasn't a black 2 piece ("Only toddlers wear anything but a black 2 piece" type mentality). Around old drunk men who'd scream about how all black people should die, or how I should dump my wife at the local homeless shelter and get a new woman at the strip club. The meanness has always been there. It has always been like this. It broke my wife, who is now pretty much agoraphobic, after a lifetime of people pleasing just to make the mean people be quiet for a few minutes (never happened).
Honestly, I've simply adopted the position that if it's not said straight to my face, then it has zero relevance to me. One of the biggest reasons is the anonimity and in general the lack of need to stand up for those words. I have always been 100% against violence, but a lot of these people would be silent as a mouse if they got to find out what a fist tastes like. Sorry, the lack of consequences breeds this behaviour like nothing else.
The video with the comment section being tailored is really interesting. That‘s one more reason in my opinion why we should try to consume less on the internet. Don‘t get me wrong, I love the internet for so many things, but I really try to avoid getting „sucked“ into it for too long because it can be a really toxic place and bring out the worst in people. Unfortunately we are also living in a world where being nice is considered „boring“ and for some reason being „boring“ seems to be a bad thing, because you need excitement in your life. I personally think it‘s the opposite, I embrace it, it gives me so much peace.
I'm done worrying about what people think is boring now. If I enjoy it and don't find it boring then it's not boring. I've fully embraced that I have the hobbies of a 90 year old and the only time I was this excited and passionate was when I was learning them as a child. Someone may call me boring, but to me it's boring losing a day to a hangover for the 20th time that month or sitting in jail all night with a DWI like a third of the people in my city
I'd blame social media for people's rudeness today rather than tv shows. Sitcoms tended to have plots that had characters deal with tough issues and would be like stories in books that taught empathy, but maybe it depends on the era of the shows. The shows of the '70s, '80s and '90s tended to be better than modern shows. Then, you also have social media and I think people tend to have a disconnect from the person they see on the screen. It's like they would view people on social media as a character who they wouldn't really see as a human being because the character on tv is fictional and the people on social media are human beings who are often not acting out a character and I don't think people make that distinction.
Reminds me of how some people dismiss social justice movements as mere virtue signaling, unfortunately I used to abuse the usage of the term 'virtue signaling'...
To be fair, virtue-signaling is a major issue in those movements in any case, and I think it’s worth mentioning that making weirdly smug comments about broad groups of people is something that virtue-signalers are often guilty of at least as much as anyone else. Just look at the ongoing Israel-Palestine violence issue: people who passionately support both sides of that are so prone to doing this that it makes having an actual rational, fact-based discussion on the issue all but impossible for anybody.
I think this quote dates back to a Netflix documentary called "The Social Dilemma", but I'm sure we've all seen the memes saying "If you're not paying for the product, then you are the product". The truth in that statement has always chilled me.
I think the biggest issue might be the blurring of ages on the internet. People in their 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s and teens are all together in this crock-pot where some have aged past making certain comments but a majority are still kids who have not. Not everyone who's 25+ is mature obviously but some comments from teenagers trying to pass off as adults may contribute to the meanness.
I genuinely think about this every time someone leaves me a wannabe clever comment and I feel like saying something equally wannabe witty... so I really want to be arguing with 15 year olds at my old age?
I think this might be one of the biggest reasons people in their 20s and 30s are so difficult to be around now. Everyone has been brought down to the level of rotten teens. I’m 27 and I find it really difficult to make new friends because everyone’s so negative that I just don’t want to be around them. Celebrating our differences isn’t a thing anymore because everyone’s been effectively brainwashed into being openly critical of everything ALL THE TIME. You can’t like something that someone else doesn’t care for without being made fun of directly to your face.
I think it has more to do with social media and the relative anonymity of the Internet than anything. Physical age does not necessarily correlate to mental age, I’ve been part of different gaming communities (a hobby known for the toxicity of its most toxic members), and in that case I’ve seen more toxic 26-40+ year olds than teens honestly. I think it has more to do with the worst kind of people of all ages feeling free to vent their frustrations on others with little fear of consequences.
This is very interesting. I work with 12-14 year olds. I have for the past 10 years. I have noticed a massive and troubling shift in how they speak and relate to eachother. In the past 2-3 years they have gone from a little snarky to flat out viscous. Girls call eachother bit*h, who*re, stupid, and they're best friends. Boys are just as bad. Its gotten to where, if you give them a legitimate compliment on something they did and you are being genuinely kind. They will react aggressively or severely offended. They call you a liar and begin to degrade themselves and make the conversation as negative as possible. If they cant have a competition over who has had the most abusive upbringing, they just trauma dump until they start trying one upping eachother. Its so depressing its hard to even want to engage with them in the first place. No matter how positive or light hearted you try to be, they will find a way to make the conversation miserable. You: "Good morning Tyler, how was your weekend?" Tyler "It was good, but I just remembered my moms cat died when she was in school and I just cant get past it." You: "Oh Tyler, Im sorry to hear that. Do you have cat at home that is older or sick?" Tyler: "No? Why?" 😐 You:"Emily, your bird house it beautiful, you're very talented." Emily:"You shouldnt get excited over a dumb ugly bird house, you dont know how other people are feeling and what they are thinking. You should really think before you talk to people because you can make them uncomfortable." 😶
@accordingtoalina the irony of it all is that mental health and emotional health is supposed to the key to happy children. Yet these children who 4 years ago, would be mentally and emotionally stable according to their age, are now intentionally seeking out things to make themselves depressed. The are actually searching for anything negative to feel comfortable or relevant in their own lives.
@@mehmustache Well, they probably have not only the media, but lots of adults (including their family) who constantly spew negativity. They complain endlessly about their jobs to their children--even if objectively their job is actually really GOOD, and then act surprised when 10 years later, lil Jonny won't get a job. They complain nonstop about their spouse to their children--even if objectively their spouse is really GOOD, and then act shocked when 15 years later, lil Jenny won't even consider dating. I'm very sorry, but parents have a massive responsibility to maintain some level of positivity in the family and home, because it really does truly affect children. I suspect that they probably degrade themselves because some adult in their lives has made a habit of degrading them (source: it happened to me, and it happened to my wife, at the hands of our families, and I suspect that it is all too commonplace for parents to take out their frustrations borne of career issues, economic factors, lack of unionisation, lack of community, and their own selfish greed upon their children...) I consider the fact that my wife was, originally, an absolutely delightful person who believed in "practical optimism"--the ability of the individual to improve not only their own life, but the lives of everyone around them. She was abused by her mother and aunt in part for that optimism and radiant kindness, as both felt it was "childish" and a sign of developmental disability. This problem has always existed, we just are giving it a name now.
I teach the same age range, and I notice similar things. A lot of them are very cynical and confrontational. It’s very weird! If I move their seat because they were talking, they want to argue with me how they shouldn’t be written up, in the middle of class, while other students are watching. I wasn’t going to write you up before and was just moving you for your own good, but now that you’re being verbally aggressive and defensive, in addition to wasting class time, I guess I will! I feel like we handled everything privately when I was a student even just 10-15 years ago. You’d talk to the teacher after class , or tell your parent and they could reach out to the teacher. The way pre-teens want to argue with me in front of everyone and gaslight me, is just crazy. I don’t feel respected.
Maybe people are more lonely, leading lives that are full of anxiety for the future ,money problems, and generally being more sad and disillusioned. So when they see others be happy and thrive and making their dreams come true, like a content creator, they lash out in jealousy, because it is easier to criticize and ridicule that take responsibility for yourself and the choices you made in your life and actually try to change and make your dreams come true. Consider this: happy and content people are busy leading happy and content lives. Sad ,discontent and feeling like a failure people on the other hand are the ones who moan and complain.
I get the impression that a disdainful attitude is what remains when one is on the brink of helplessness regarding how to act, and one cannot find the understandable and trustworthy part of reality. Others know and can, but one does not know how to achieve such a thing.
Even though not a lot of people are talking about this, I'm so glad more people are noticing this. I thought I was going crazy while looking at comment sections being brutal to the creator of the post. It feels unreal. Being fourteen and seeing people who are almost ADULTS say these things is bizarre 😞.
really glad i don't have tt or use reels very much, mostly on tumblr these days and saw her post and totally agreed! after not having it for a while i realized how the pros of it outweigh the cons and my days feel much longer!♥︎
I've recently noticed that the scent of internet culture (partic on social media) seems to be snark, sass, sarcasm, smart-assery and sardonicism. It's cool to be all these things on the internet and it shapes the cultural landscape to a fault. It's kinda low-key sad. I miss the era of UA-cam when being genuinely excited about the things you love wasn't considered 'cringe'.
As a person who likes internet brain rot and also reads classical literature, essays, and other so-called 'intellectual' stuff. I don't really know what to say!
I feel the same way about not having consumed a lot of media when I was younger, like Avatar because I didn’t watch a lot of TV and TV channels as a kid but rather read some rather unpopular books (like the Edge Chronicles). I am also German so I realize that the internet like tumblr or instagram are mostly US centric (mostly tumblr popular posts are like this). And I agree with Hayden (Ethel Cain) so much, I love her for that. I always engage with media and my interests really sincerely so I am annoyed by the growing sentiment of coating everything in layers of irony and sarcasm. Especially the things like disguising your opinions/criticisms/insults as a "joke" just so they can backtrack from their accountability. As I said though I don’t have a lot of exposure to all these popular media things and people are so ready to jump at you for not being caught up with popular things
People seem to be so mean to me online like legit … once I told someone what OCD was and everyone attacked me for it told me I talk to much, stfu, I’m wrong , ect… I used the dsm5 for the legit meaning of OCD because people were making up crap about it yet IM THE ONE being yelled at IM the one being “bullied.
Thoughtful and well-made video about a problem we're all noticing. It's so soul-crushing and draining. I want kindness and empathy to come back. Honest, compassionate vulnerability. I think that's gradually starting to. Entertainment definitely influenced the way people talk and even interact. The "I don't know who this celebrity is" one bugs me too because it feels like the person is trying to signal they're not shallow and interested in celebrities and therefore morally superior in a "not like other girls" way. This is a sick world we now sadly live in. A lot of people are adopting witty cynicism to cope. Being negative is easy. It also gives people a sense of power.
Be negative and people yell at you for being a pessimist, a cynic, and a downer. Be positive and people tell you that you're naive and spreading toxic positivity. I've tried both, people criticize me either way. If I can't win either way, I'll take the easy way out and be negetive.
@@OzCroc negativity has more disadvantages than having a positive mindset so Id rather not do that if I were you. also you mentioned about struggling with using a positive mindset because people still criticize you for it which is sort of puzzling to me.. could it be a _"you problem"?_ like your approach could be wrong & not authentic which could be hurtful to them or is it more like a _"their problem"_ like maybe it's the people you choose to surround yourself with who are the cause/issue. It's possible the people who criticized you are either antisocial or cynical/pessimistic themselves and so they struggle to grasp the concept of vulnerability which is the key in accepting positive emotions
@@tutubism I kind of started out as a negetive person. But people always told me I was a downer, so I forced myself to be positive and not complain about anything. But then people said that was "toxic positivity", whatever that means. I just find being negetive more rewarding and easy. It comes naturally to me.
@OzCroc sorry, it's not quite clear to me if these "people" you refer to are either friends? or a family member/relatives? and by being negative, do you mean to say that you vent or share your problems? in this case there's nothing wrong with it. unless, it becomes unhealthy like over-sharing or venting to the wrong person who is dismissive or amplifies negative feelings can be detrimental.
@tutubism It's mostly my family, as well as a few of my coworkers. And by negetive, I mean being pessimistic and cynical. I'm not mean, mind you, but I tend to look at the negative before I see the positive.
Hello Alina, First off: thank you for making this thoughtful video. This is a huge subject and several of your points are reasons why I generally never comment on anything online. I would like to add a thought to the discussion by asking if you've ever read or heard of a book called "Amusing ourselves to death"? In short summary the author argues that when the medium changed from text to television (with regard to the main way of spreading information) we largely lost the ability to reflect on the information in favour of entertainment. As television then and UA-cam/Instagram/TikTok now are visual mediums there really is no encouragement to pause and reflect on what is being said. Clips are judged on how good they are at keeping your attention. Boring/slow/nuanced = bad. Short/quick/shallow=good. Pairing this idea with the question why some of us prefer to just be mean for entertainments sake feels natural to me. Why wouldn't one say the "funny" thing for attention? (And I personally would guess that judgemental humour is the more universal humour.) Thoughtful comments take time and effort and will not get you as much attention or appreciation.
The polarizing comments make so much sense. I guess I never really thought about it. Its right in front of our faces too, the "Where are all the mean comments people are talking about?" or "Why are there no mean comments?" (That one also contributes to the idea that were so used to cynicism/snark) I mean, its already done with our ads and the videos or posts recommended to us...why not comments?
I've been following your channel for quite a while and it just occurred to me, while I was typing a comment about how disheartening it can be to express any sort of opinion online, that I've never actually commented that I really love watching your videos. I love how you pick your topics and how you build your arguments :) Greetings from a fellow Romanian who also grew up with unrestricted access to Western cartoons and TV shows, it's good to have you here.
The last point you made (about even the comment sections being tailored) was so obvious to both miss and to not miss. For the record, I did not know this existed, but it makes sense that it does exist and I hate it. From a content creator's point of view, it's a miracle for engagement, but for the average internet user, it's a nightmare because the changing comment section ruins the video/meme being sent. I don't know if I articulated this well, but I wanted to get my thoughts out.
If you're interested in learning more about the trolling thing and the culture around the internet right now I would recommend the book Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates. It's more specifically about the manosphere but it takes a lot about how it is shaped by the internet culture and how it moves from the internet to real life. I will just warn that some of the content is quite shocking and can sometimes feel like it's lacking commentary for its examples
I'm only mean and confrontational on the internet because in real life I'm a pushover and never assert myself. I let myself get taken advantage of in real life, and then vent my frustrations on the internet. It's better to do that then to be mean to people in real life.
I think the irony epidemic has a lot to do with the likes system that most websites employ. It becomes a contest to see who can say the funniest or most rude thing possible and harvest the most likes because nothing gets the dopamine flowing than having a ton of people upvote or like your shit. Its validating in a way. Its why the term dont feed the trolls was born.
Yesss, people were definitely like wait, weren’t you the queen of online irony?? I find it interesting that she wrote that considering that so many of her instagram lives/ general fan interactions are so saturated with absurdity. I wonder if it’s an age thing and she’s growing out of that “phase” or if the irony thing is fun for a while and then gets tiring for everyone
@ I can’t speak for anyone but i have to admit some minority of trans women originally found themselves on 4chan (hellscape of irony and bigotry if you ask me) and some of them are huge jerks. frankly Ethel I think spent at least some time there. I think she’s probably “growing out of it” but more like she’s been away from that space long enough now she’s realizing most people aren’t like that nor find it amusing
Hi Alina! This is the first video I've seen of yours; it was recommended to me on the homepage, and I wanted to (in all sincerity) write and say thank you for putting this out there. I've been, for a long time, working on trying to stop turning to humour and irony the moment I become uncomfortable. I've always struggled with sincerity and this was a strong reminder of its importance. I especially appreciated your points about what growing up in the sitcom-on-repeat age must have done to our speech patterns. I've never heard that take before, and I know it's going to be on my mind now. I think that would be a great avenue for future research. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos in the future :)
Pervasive insincerity and dishonesty is why I strongly dislike so much of what social media represents. It's also why people comparing themselves to others on social media is so detrimental - so much of it is a well-polished facade. Ironically, I think that's why so many people are unhappy - despite being more "connected" than ever, in terms of genuine conversation and human connection, we're more isolated than at any point in human history.
It became an epidemic to me when it wasn’t just “toxic stan twt” and bled into real life. The first time I heard 2 new friends go “(name) was rude last night, next time I see him I’ll let him know that behavior was uncalled for” I was astounded by the revelation I could NEVER have a conversation like that with my friends. Everything has to be unserious, authenticity like that is met with “lmfao it’s not that deep, bro thinks he’s the woke police. Okay, and i should care becauuuuse…why?” the constant need to assert how much you don’t care about anything at all is genuinely smothering. I feel like it’s a reaction to woke cringe culture making earnestness embarrassing, and an acceleration of gen z nihilistic thinking, like “the worlds on fire, who cares, nothing matters”
On the topic of the effects of TV on linguistics: I highly recommend the book Slayer Slang by Michael Adams. It’s about Buffy the Vampire Slayer’s linguistics. And it’s also a really fascinating tracking of online fandom in the late 90s and early 2000s. He included not just language from the show, but also language invented on fan forums. And idk it’s just a fun time! 10/10 recommend
Late 2000s and 2010s meanness is what i would call more obvious "youre icky/fat/ugly/bad at dancing/unfashionable" meaness. Nowadays the mean style on TikTok is definitely either chronic unseriousness and making everyting a joke, OR "this isn't for me WHY is it on my algorith?!/why didn't you do this,that,etc/this isn't the best/this could be better" meanness. Like everyone deputized thenselves as the content morality police or a art/fashion/fitness critic because they think criticizing makes them shortcut to sound like an expert when it just makes them sound like a jerk.
I love the way your videos are always in conversation with other creators!! I see so many videos that are clearly inspired by other creators but the person won't credit them and it's so disappointing to see, like it costs nothing to give credit
When I first came across Ethel Cain she instantly reminded me of Lana Del Rey...They are both clearly playing characters...Ethel is like a 2024 reimagining of a Manson family member...she has a forehead tattoo for god's sake...if Ethel was truly seeking a sincere reaction, she would go sing in dive bars or her bedroom or something...but instead she posts her "art" online because she wants to be known/famous/make money...if you decide to turn yourself into a digital product to be consumed, there are accompanying costs and benefits...the apple farmer doesn't get to decide what the customer does with the apple after he sells it
Very interesting points! I live in Lithuania and also noticed in news articles about influencers very rude comments, not just "who the h are you, no one cares, etc" but like really nasty comments. But I came to conclusion that most people write bad comments and those who don't have an opinion, or agree, don't express it so much.
I was attracted to the title, saw the timing, and thought, "fuck, no" (don't judge too harshly: it's late and I just opened YT to listen to some music before sleep), but ended up happily watching the whole thing... which is impressive for a ramble-y monologue! Anyway, I optimistically (?) imagine this resonates with a lot of people. Thanks.
This is really random, but I heard you say that you are not a native English speaker. Your English is so amazing. I had no idea that you did not grow up with the language. I really do like your voice. It sounds really free, like, I could listen to you speak forever.
I watched the whole video. I loved hearing your perspective. I've noticed that people are insincere and mean. I feel like I am insincere, but nice. So I basically try not to dwell on negative emotions and actively avoid them. This is insincere because I tend to brush off negative feelings and not fully process what's happened, ruining my ability to understand why people linger in unhappiness
Interesting, I'm the opposite: totally scrupulous about engaging in good faith and being answerable to any request or challenge; yet I don't mind disagreement. Reading between the lines of your comment, about actively avoiding negative emotions and brushing off negative feelings, I have to imagine it's not just your inner world described but also flaking out on people you're displeased with. But to someone like me understanding and being understood is worthwhile even if we don't like what we see, and gotta conclude there's no reconciling differences.
always happy to see a video of yours pop up on my yt :] idk how relevant to the topic this is, but i often feel like people demand celebrities to have extreme opinions in order to bash them/ extremely agree with them. i often see an actor for example making a political comment (most often about a situation they know nothing about, really), and then the media promotes that comment more than any movie they have been in. feels like everyone's a politician as of lately. (this has it's positives, such as the fact we get to hear a variety of opinions, but even then it feels like one opinion gets promoted more than the other based on your algorithm, so idk how good this actually is). love your vids!
originally i wasn't going to comment as i am guilty of passively consuming content and not directly engaging with most of it but i paused around 20min to say i whole heartedly agree wit you. i would argue about the timing that this cultural shift happened as i am not american and since my teenage years this irony poisoning is an integral part of my internet experience (and even in real life with friends) but - and i add this without having finished watching - the memeification of politics and the whole outrage-attention economy the far right dominates so well plays a big part in all of this. as for why i paused around 20min, its just that i think you nailed your argument - it's about loneliness and community. behind every excess there is a desire. the desire here is to reach and connect when we don't experience such experiences in real life edit: your following argument on comedy shaping our senses of interaction was brilliant! never heard of that and i think it's a very compelling angle. i will def discuss this one later with other people
What Virginia Woolf would have responded to Cicero, a quote directly plucked from her collection of essays called Granite and Rainbow. " We can see that there are many books, and we are frequently told that everyone can write nowadays. That may be true; yet we do not doubt that at the heart of this immense volubility, this flood and foam of language, this irreticence and vulgarity and triviality, there lies the heat of some great passion which only needs the accident of a brain more happily turned than the rest to issue in a shape which will last from age to age. It should be our delight to watch this turmoil, to do battle with the ideas and visions of our time, to seize what we can use, to kill what we consider worthless, and above all to realize that we must be generous to the people who are giving shape as best they can to the ideas within them. No age of literature is so little submissive to authority as ours, so free from the dominion of the great; none seems so wayward with its gift of reverence, or so volatile in its experiments." p. 29
i watched this whole video, gave it some thought, and then clicked away to watch paul mescal hot ones (lol) and immediately noticed the phenomenon you were talking about, where the comment section is just a competition to have the funniest quippiest reference or thirst comment. back here just to think out loud about what you said about disinhibition. i think it goes both ways where people feel comfortable saying silly/goofy/unserious stuff to brand/company accounts because you're not thinking of it as a person on the other end of the comments. but then influencers blur the line between being a real person and being a brand. and then i think it trickles down to any random reel that ppl come across, they feel comfortable saying whatever because it's just entertainment/commodity. idk just food for thought, thanks for an interesting video!
The more and more i keep seeing this from people on the internet like this and discord servers within the few past years the more i feel like it has to get worse before it could all get better
17:53 i'm white american but grew up (and still am) interested in east asian pop culture. my entire life i've grown up with people saying "how have you never seen ____?" so for years i always felt like the weird one for not knowing ~american cultu classics~ from the 80s/90s. most recently had a guy on my kickball team say to me "the problem is you only know about asian culture." like... no the problem is you think everything is western/white-centric lol and these are always the same people that will never watch a single international movie/show and if they do they have to watch it dubbed in english because they're too inconvenienced by having to watch something in a different language to watch with subtitles.
Many people are grasping for commonalities. So when you appear to wilfully shirk from things you could be friends around, of course people feel insecure about you. Speaking as a former weirdo who was the only teen in Vancouver with muppet-blue dreadlocks, in 1986. Yes, nineteen-eighty-six. Punks at that time rejected everything mainstream. Some obnoxiously derided it; others were just ...um, going their own way. And I understand you: my son is half Japanese. Over the decades, beginning with the multiplication of TV channels and now with individually tailored media bubbles, I find Canadians have greatly diversified and maybe today there's _too much_ subculture at expense of local community or even family. You know, like shunning my uncle due to a political, religious, or ideological difference. And never speaking to the people on my street because we have nothing obvious in common. I remember being disgusted by a Taiwanese girlfriend who like everyone in her ESL class owned a closed-caption capable TV set and watched a smarmy American show called _Friends._ I didn't mock her or anything, but was disappointed. I'd avoid that like it was toxic. But she was just forming a shared experience for others in the best way she knew. They all watched _Friends_ as a cultural study - and it's so obvious isn't it?
18:05 like when Cillian Murphy was up for an Oscar and people were making him sound like a brand new actor who "finally got noticed" when he's been in PB for ten years and had been in serval box office hots before that 😭 he's been known in the UK for years and i thought the US but sooooo many people just assumed because they haven't seen him Nolan just found a random Irish man on the street for his movie 😭 And this is still western media too which makes it weirder as well
i had to pause the video a couple of times to agree with you and literally talk to myself but when at 19:48 you said "desire for community" i go "I JUST SAID THIS BEFORE", i guess that's the reason why im commenting this now anyways but genuinely wanted to put it out there now ill go back to the vid bye ok nvm, i just finished the video and on a serious note, the last bit with the girl's tiktok about different comment sections actually kinda scared me, that affects everything from the way we treat each other, to our perception of right and wrong thus elections and political matters (even tho i believe everything can be political at the end of the day).. the polarization of society is something weird to witness and im stating the obvious but it just makes me think, but anyways, i think that this phenomenon has only gotten worse after the pandemic, i never used to see comments like the ones i see now before 2020 or 2021.. maybe im being nostalgic of life before covid therefore remembering it as better than it is now but idk, im really confident in saying this, and with boomers and older people getting tiktok only God know what they see everyday for hours.. i feel like there's a huge difference in how gen z consumes media compared to boomers like.. i can literally SEE my father's brain getting totally fried when he stays on tiktok for HOURS scrolling quickly from a video to another and it's scary the shit that i hear from whatever he watches at times.. OHH AND PS i used to be a lot on twitter cause i genuinely thought it was funny back in a couple of years ago but everybody kept getting meaner and meaner by the day there, people even including myself being soooo out of touch with reality is insane, i disinstalled the app months ago and it feels so good to not really care to open that app anymore but still.. if i were to delete an app for the sake of my mental health id have to uninstall almost every social media i got on my phone.. and i sincerely hope i'll get there one day ngl
I'm going to start by apologizing because English is not my first language and I don't know if I'll be able to articulate my thoughts in a coherent way. But I would go further and call this "epidemic of irony" an "epidemic of cynicism" in general. Because this is on every corner of the internet. I've seen/received this kind of aggressively chronically online response into simpler pots like regular tweets giving opinions on movies or in more serious situations, like when I tweeted saying "Hey maybe it's not funny to turn a video of Taylor Swift's ex participating in a campaign against the genocide of the Palestinian people, in a tweet trying to make a joke about which Taylor Swift's boyfriend is more attractive"
Good discussion. Most of the time I'm not overly mean in person or online but I admittedly use irony to point out people's lack of logic, knowledge, and intelligence. I will reflect on this and look to make some changes personally, but I also think there is a difference between using ironic humor with people who are factually wrong with something they say or do vs using it to attack others when they have done nothing wrong or their opinions differ from yours.
I like this channel. I'm subscribed (not sure when I did but I am). This is my third video from this channel of the night. On the first one I watched, I left 2 comments. Both of them were disagreeing with things you said in the video, and I tried not to be mean but they may have come off as mean. All this to say: I agreed with everything else you said except for those two points, but if I had commented about the parts I agreed with, I wouldn't have had literally anything to add to the conversation beyond "yeah good points." I think maybe the nature of commenting online in general encourages negativity, and not in the way that posting rage-bait can be a good financial move, but more just because if you don't have anything productive to add to a conversation, you typically don't, so unless you're going to agree/compliment someone via a little joke, there's really not gonna be a reason to comment a genuine reaction. Right? So here you go: yeah I agree with you. Genuinely. Good video. Good points. I... literally just had to stop myself from making a joke to make the compliment feel more "necessary."
I don't respond to outrageous posts online because I assume that it's meant to stir shit and the poster is not interested in a genuine conversation. Avoiding social media helps too.
I am going to be entirely honest, I am one of the meanest ppl on internet, why? because is my arena to throw away all my frustration, is a place where I put the dirt and hell Im not being mean in a serious way, I often feel bad afterwards but I need to take the anger out of me somehow. Im guessing a lot of ppl does the same. Ofc Im not justifying but Im being honest about how I personally feel.
I am going to sound frivolous but, I wanted to congratulate you on getting furniture; having watched a lot of your videos since last summer, I remember you kept mentioning how you don't have any. Therefore, I immediately noticed you now have furniture. And yes, this is a useless comment, but that's how I choose to engage with the video today 😆
Hahahaha thank you! It’s slowly but steadily coming in (new bed arrived 2 days ago). As it turns out adult furniture is expensive and takes ages to arrive 😬
I blame tt, the amount of young people that spend so much time on that app that it has completely rotted their brains and they've forgotten how to be normal individuals. Sorry not sorry tt heads
I was diagnosed w PTSD because of abuse I experienced in the music industry. Aside from fearing for my life at moments, it also completely destroyed my self worth. Now when I go out into the world and experience this shit IRL w the younger generations, I get literally so triggered and it completely messes up my emotional regulation to the point that I won’t even leave my house for anywhere other than the grocery store…let alone trying to talk about it with someone on the internet. I don’t even have that to try and find community even more. You never know how much your snarky clap back can effect someone. Just saying…
I again and again quote my favorite movie line: "it takes courage to care". I feel like a lot of people are too scared of becoming the butt of the joke to take anything seriously. We're just a bunch of cynical conwards trying to get whatever validation we can at the expense of people we have no personal attachment to at this point. I'm at the stage when I feel respect for people who are considered cringe solely for being genuinely and openly excited about stuff.
yes definitely agree! to be cringe is to be free
That really opens my eyes. Great quote and explanation, thanks for putting it in words perfectly!
@@cnj122000 "to be cringe is to be free" - never heard that one before, I'm stealing it.
What movie?
@@Z-FishInMyBreakfast Detachment
"Brutal honesty" is a lazy scapegoat that people use to disguise covert bullying as "just tryna look out for you", twisting the narrative to make themselves look good and you look bad for reacting too sensitively. It's manipulative and gaslighting. Someone who's actually trying to look out for you will still care if what they said has made you upset, and not demonize you for getting upset.
Underrated comment, nail on the head.
This is why I went no contact with my entire family
It’s called reality.
True.
@@Based808 You can still keep it real and be diplomatic. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Even the comment section getting algorithmically sorted depending on who's looking at it is genuinely dystopian.
10000% that is the absolute most important astute point of this video
the rest of this is feedback specific to the channel/creator:
a) you clearly are very intelligent and contemplative, with a genuine sensibility that approaches this topic with authentic care and consideration
👍 das good
b) some of that gets lost in the lack of linear logic of explaining the point of the info, however; which could be a stylistic choice of employing a more candid stream-of-consciousness, but I found it a little tricky to really have specific take-aways of a concise idea beyond “people be acting up in comments too much, and das not good… “
👆which is funny because there is a lot of good points shared, with anecdotal examples and what not, almost as if too many without enough concise focus… I guess it’s just a stylistic thing where it was a more ‘feeler’ expression of the topic rather than pragmatic logical explanation
c) so in conclusion, I would just like to reiterate some of the LOGICAL observations you made - which I think account for the main comment section phenomenon
1. people comment without watching the whole video, OR ‘just here for the comments’ is simply the digital public square and the “video content” can often be reduced to a fleeting topic of convo for the masses to chat about
👆specifically in regard to responding to absurdity with absurdity, which an unsettling majority of “content” is vapidly trivial and mainly just attention seeking
2. along the same lines about the digital public square - even if the content actually qualifies as thought-provoking, again still the same holds true that the comment section is simply a proverbial meeting grounds wherein the masses seek the interactive experience amongst each other, as much if not more importantly than just the consumption of static content by itself
etc etc etc … I think that is pretty much the basic logic of what goes on in the comment section. the content is often reduced merely to being a topic of conversation for the meeting grounds where people enjoy the shared experience of connection and jokes… the end
the one specific personal anecdote that I found truly novel and fascinating was how Chandler represented a certain understanding of a western archetype for you… that was a very interesting cultural point 👍
ps I think a lot of people liked the “don’t look up” movie that you were ironically hating on at the end … 🤔
it reminds me of how sometimes i’ll see a majority of comments responding to other comments that are supposedly rude, but i can’t find the rude ones they’re referring to (if that makes sense)
@@xgrimesreaper This so much. I always wonder if they've been deleted by the time i see them because ive gone to the bottom and seen..none
i think about this a lot. i guess you miss some of the 'big discussions' this way but sorting the comments by "most recent" makes me feel just a little less trapped somehow lol
Yeah.. I noticed the comments shift around during videos to match what part of the video I’m at and it’s a little weird! I don’t know when they started doing that but. Just. Weird.
I've seen so many people say, "It's not being rude, it's be brutally honest." I have also seen people straight up say they should bring back bullying.
When did being kind and considerate to people go out of style? When did it become cringe to follow the rules I learned in pre-school? "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all." and "treat others as you would want to be treated." It's sad how little people follow those anymore.
“Bring back bullying” is the shit people who weren’t bullied say. It never stopped. They don’t fully appreciate how detrimental bullying is because they either went under the radar, or they were the bullies at
And you know those are the same people who if someone was rude to them or bullied them, they'd be the loudest saying how "everyone's being mean to me."
Thats the exact line my abusive ex used to use to make me believe the bs he was saying keep me in the relationship. Big red flag
A lot of people have and were nice to others but the than got stomped on by people who know felt entitled and righteous. People could once disagree with each and have discourse with no bad feelings but that changed and now all push back labeled as "hate speech" or other heavy language when I reality is just criticism. Everything got turned up a notch by people who lack the social skills and awareness that light discourse and criticism is not actual hate or meanness.
@@Gloomdrake It's probably also said by people who were bullies themselves and want to convince themselves that what the did to others was actually "Good."
"when i was young, i played with invisible beings and shadows" absolutely sent me because it's so true
She’s just like me 😭
@@accordingtoalinaomg I love not even Emily she’s my favorite UA-camr ever I really really like you for mentioning her buddy
Girl I was shocked seeing Emily on the intro she's funny af!!1!
Who was that she’s hilarious
Well when u hve to grow up under communism thats what u hve to play with. They dont even have food half the time, much less toys lol
I feel so vindicated that people are finally picking up on this trend. I've been thinking about it for a while and have been told I'm being too sensitive and "what do you expect, it's the internet duh". Ok well I actually don't find it normal for people to be so unnecessarily rude and cynical for no reason
It’s a little scary, because I remember this exact phenomenon back in the early-mid 2010s. This might not be something that can be…fixed? It might just be an endless cycle we’ll always have to deal with.
This can also apply to being a woman in gaming spaces too man like people will strong arm you into taking casual abuses from others like Why tf is this so normalized. Can we just be nice n play the game Im so tired
Same. I've lost all faith in humanity and it hurts as a nurse 😢
The internet is honestly horrendous in so many ways that no one seems to care about tbh, not only is it horrible and vindictive, it and plenty of people on it are also extremely shallow, extremely arrogant despite being very unwise leading to them thinking they know everything and then being even more vindictive to anyone who disagrees with them which also just drives polarization. Also you can kind of tell who in real life uses the internet a lot because they exhibit some of the same behaviours and definitely have all of the opinions that match perfectly with internet people, and the problem with that is that the internet clearly does influence people more than not at all which isn't that great to hear considering it's just getting more and more grasp over humanity as each generation comes about.
Male conservative movement. So basically you saw them normalizing saying very questionable things, to woman or black ppl idk. Even sexual jokes towards young girls.
Although I completely agree with the ironic response epidemic in comment sections, I actually remember this being a thing before social media - specifically as an American preteen/teen.
I remember not feeling like I could have deep conversations, or if I liked something like a specific singer or book, or shared a song, it was discussed with only my closest friends because everyone else would be like “I don’t get it” and would make jokes about it. Americans are very uncomfortable with what they don’t know and the auto response is self deprecation or making a quippy response. Instead of inquiring or looking things up, the it’s more common that people will pretend they know or pretend it doesn’t matter, even though it matters to you.
But this has spread so intensely online it feels like even intentionally positive comments are a joke with no depth. Or they’re flattering without any kind of real feedback. I feel for artists who crave the experience of seeing their art being openly, expressively appreciated instead of seeing a quip.
Like when someone expresses something good that happened to them and the response is only “love that for you” 💀💀💀
True. I recall this behavior being prevalent in my high school and my friend group 20 years ago.
Yeah this was definitely a feeling when I was a preteen/teen, too, but that makes me wonder if it's just the result of low emotional intelligence and a desire for attention, which are both traits you have in your teen years and eventually grow out of. Like, not to be a "kids these days" kinda guy, but if there were less teens online, maybe the problem would be less noticeable? Or is it more that the teens have saturated the internet so much that adults have started devolving (assuming they ever grew out of their teen angst traits in the first place). Or, like you said, is it a predominantly American issue? Is the internet the same way in German or Japanese, for example?
And this is not happening only online. I notice this behavior in my friends (and even myself). It has become acceptable among really young people to be rude and ironic out of nothing, even with people who you like.
But of course, there are limits in real life. I have a friend who became so insufferable with her negative comments about everyone and everything that's hard to have a conversation with her. She thinks it's cool to be so sarcastic and negative and she won't change. I'm starting to keep a certain distance cause I can't stand her anymore.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention people who make being “blunt” their entire personality
@@accordingtoalinaSounds very like my late grandmother, but she was Dutch so it goes with the territory, lol.
Right??? It's like some people think they live in a sitcom and blurt out joke after joke after snarky comment. In real life, this doesn't earn you any award for the coolest person in the room, it just makes it difficult to interact with you. In the age of memes and internet/pop culture, it's easy to be quippy and sarcastic, and all the more honorable not to go for the low-hanging fruit and actually make an effort to connect, be vulnerable, and listen.
@@accordingtoalina as a 41 year old woman who has been very blunt my whole life, there is a way to do so, and a difference, that doesn't make someone feel bad.
And, even then, some people just can't stand being faced with their own image in the mirror.
Being blunt allows you to determine who you can trust and have on your team quicker. If they are not open to any criticism or critiquing whatsoever (and most people aren't), then that's a person you really don't want on your team. Of course, I'm not talking about random YT comments from strangers, though.
It's a conversation that deserves more nuance.
Male conservative movement. So basically you saw them normalizing saying very questionable things, to woman or other ppl idk. Other race. Even sexual jokes towards young girls.
I think a lot of people feel it's too vulnerable to be sincere. Even to sincerely enjoy things without being critical. It's sad. Also thank you for the term micro fringe - I didn't know I needed that word but I absolutely did
I used to be super mean online, until one day someone replied to my sarcastic comment genuinely, they told me a story and they thanked me. I realized it felt good to be kind and get positive feedback. I went back and changed the comment so it didn’t come across as rude anymore, it made me never want to be hurtful again. I comment with the thought of how someone would feel if they saw my comment, life is hard as it is, I don’t want to make it worse.
This character arc genuinely gives me hope
i love hating
I remember I was at my worst back when I would scroll through Instagram during the lunch break at work - I had this one interaction with a troll that left me feeling like I genuinely wanted to tear that person down, and I realised, that’s not healthy. I needed something to change if I was getting to that level, and ever since I’ve been trying to limit my scrolling, and really only comment if I have something to say.
People like my mother keep quoting "sticks and stones will break my bones but words can never hurt me." But words - certain words above all - CAN go FAR deeper than any blade.
The thing about the comment section being different for the same video blew my mind. Like am I surprised that instagram did this, but I never thought that the “for you” concept would go this far.
The idea of a “true” commonly shared reality is truly dead.
Arguably it always has been, especially before the printing press was invented. We were enjoying a brief stint of time where mostly everyone followed the same sources and trusted those sources, when historically that has never universally been the case.
I feel like we go through information upheavals that have profound knock-on effects everytime we invent a new communication medium.
Printing press? Enabled the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment movement, which resulted in a period of war and upheaval for many nations.
Telegragh? Enabled the quickening of Native American persecution and helped enable to situations that led to WW1 being what it was.
Television? Led to the fairness doctrine era of top-down low-salience information sharing and arguably helped lead to the post-1989 rules based international order we all grew up in. It also led to alot of informational control in countries like Germany, Spain, Russia, and China during the 20th century.
In my opinion, Social Media has caused another upheaval, and were living through it. We dont know what the end result is, and I think that subconciously terrifies alot of people.
I used to frequent a political-oriented blog which had its own rule for commenting: people were limited to 3 comments per post. I think this went some way to reducing online abuse: a key aspect of flame wars is the desire to get the last word as a form of victory. By rationing discourse, each comment is increased in value, and the poster has to think if he wants to expend his assets on *this*. No one is going to post "First!" or "Don't care" or pedantic grammar corrections if they know that that will be the limit of what they can contribute.
That’s actually soooo sensible!
Sadly, this will probably never be implemented on a wide scale because sites like UA-cam want "engagement" - more comments means more ad views and money in their pocket. On that note if they really cared about the quality of discourse they would have more even-handed moderation instead of allowing alt-right trolls and pornbots to run wild while moderating innocent comments and demonetizing people for nebulous reasons.
Wait, that's actually a cool feature. I have never thought of that before.
“Irony is the song of a bird who has come to love it’s cage.” David Foster Wallace
Ooo, love that quote
Crazy that he was already lamenting the irony-poisoned state of culture 25+ years ago, and it’s just kept getting worse in the time since.
Work in customer service, you will quickly understand that people are overwhelmingly unpleasant to deal with.
Which is why I stay back in the bakery and keep my head down eight hours a day.
I think you made such an important point, Alina, about the rise of anti-intellectualism. I always feel that the president-elect when describing himself as the 'smartest', the 'best', and the 'most successful' does so whilst trolling those who really are the smartest etc. That anti-intellectualism, lack of seriousness and use of trolling and 'it was a joke' approach has now been normalised and promoted by the most powerful man on earth.
Giving him way too much credit in that last part, let's bring it down a notch
I’ve always felt this way too
And sadly, he was elected, proving how pervasive the anti-intellectualism/willful ignorance is in our country.
The orange man has an effective method of diplomacy with foreign countries, which Id have to argue it really does make him the best man for the position hes going into.
But he is not 'normalising' the behavior amongst people, Americans have always been like that. Technology has been contributing to troll culture more than the orange. Media also plays a hand at excaserbating it as well too.
I truly believe that future historians will refer to this as The Era of the Stupid. I truly hope this era is a short one.
I feel like people in general are losing their social skills. Even in person people that are virtual strangers to me say some really sarcastic and rude things. It’s very frustrating as somebody who is autistic and had to work very hard to learn. Good social skills. I just feel like people don’t care to put in the same effort that I do, not to mention that sometimes the things they say are very hurtful
And oh this issue of anti-intellectualism as a symptom of fomo is so true and so funny. because it's so funny to open the comments of a letterboxd video for example (a platform focused on movies and cinema) and read people accusing a director or actor of talking about a specific movie to sound smart when having some knowledge about cinema is basically a part of their job
Leftists do not own intellectualism
Girl I feel that. I got that crap when I used english to Talk about my Uni classes. Im German, so we're talking Germany. My Sister and dad specifically, both of whom speak english, would ask me about Uni, about lectures and assignments, and THEN lay into me for using english vocabulary to Talk about it. Because "cant you speak Like a normal Person or do you have to move to Berlin?"
The Kicker? My Majors were english and Media studies. English was obviously.... In English. They would ask me about linguistics Modules that I just cannot discuss in standard German. Because my major is english. So thats the terminology I know.
In the end i simply stopped talking about Uni at Home, except to mention the odd good Grade or Deadline i Had coming Up.
@annabeinglazy5580 Thanks for sharing I feel so seen right now. I just don't understand what my problem is with that language. I can understand people easily, but it's so hard for me to express my own thoughts
It's also so annoying when comments are just copied and so unoriginal. When I see the same joke comment in every tiktok
Glad this is finally getting addressed.
It's been *especially* prevalent in fandom spaces, and the amount of overseas creators who've been driven away from English speakers (especially teenagers) because this is primarily a US thing have been far too many.
The casual threats of violence/death directed at a creator or their work, or threatening to do it to themselves, or calling people/characters slurs that we've been trying to get rid of for a few decades, *in lieu of a genuine compliment,* is honestly terrifying.
You can't really tell anymore if they actually mean any of that or not, and they have the gall to act surprised when an overseas creator either panics or outright blocks them in response.
Kids are now being raised by the internet culture more than their own parents. Politeness and poise used to be something deeply instilled in kids by the parents before the iPad kids became a thing. Now people are so comfortable behind an anonymous profile they can finally be the meany they know they’d get punched for if they were like that in person. Then the younger generations raised by the internet see that and are influenced by that, and to fit in, repeat the cycle.
Hence why it is far less common for people to be rude like that in public.
People say hurtful things to escape having anything hurtful be said to them. The ultimate irony is that people care a lot, and that scares them.
It’s so exhausting. I have social anxiety and insecurities, and being mocked by strangers online for showing kindness is so humiliating. I try not to comment as much as possible on my personal accounts solely out of fear of judgment because people are so blatantly cruel now, I expect people to say the worst. I’m scared to share my thoughts on anything 😭
That’s so true! I think it makes us afraid to connect with others genuinely. It’s sad to see
That's why I make any profiles I comment from as anonymous as possible now. So in the inevitable case that someone maliciously disagrees with something I've said they have no personal information about me and I feel shielded rather than exposed and attacked for having an opinion or stating a fact that I've researched
I think it has something to do with the fact that you have social anxiety and insecurities, that's probably why people find you easy.
i really really liked this video. i've been feeling this way for a while and notice myself getting pissed off with takes i find unnecessarily mean, so it's nice to feel validated about that. but this video also highlighted some ways that i have also tried to be the funny guy or been snarky for likes, and made me realize the times i've been hypocritical about what i preach
Don’t beat yourself up about it - I’m making use of irony and sarcasm in this very video as well, because it’s so ingrained in the way we speak. And also, sometimes it’s useful and fun!! Let’s not forget that using metaphorical or hypebolic language here and there is completely normal. It’s only a problem when taken to extremes.
Agree, yeah toxic people exist and they can become rude for simple making the smallest comment/critic, but there're still people who straight up will say the most diabolical thing and called you soft if you get offended
I'm tired of the insincerity. It's exhausting. I want to have friends and a girlfriend. I want sincerity from them. That shouldn't be too much to ask.
Ummm but it is too much to ask for in current year.
I feel you. Everyone is fake.
It's the two sides of a coin: Fakeness from the overly "nice" people who just want something out of us vs the cynical, crude, & rude people online who think that they're being more "real" by being a jack🫏
Both are fake and scared to face their true feelings and insecurities.
@@PGOuma thank you. I'm glad someone agrees.
Grew up with parents who were like this, surrounded by "friends" (read: BULLIES) like this, in person, and honestly...IT WAS ALWAYS LIKE THIS. My wife was the first person I met who refused to be mean (and in turn, she was absolutely steamrolled by the mean people in HER family).
We grew up around shrieking, raging right wing MTG type older women who'd sneer at my wife and tell her that love isn't real, and that she should shut up and make money for my parents to prove she was good enough, who simultaneously bullied my wife for wearing modest clothing but also for wearing a swimsuit that wasn't a black 2 piece ("Only toddlers wear anything but a black 2 piece" type mentality). Around old drunk men who'd scream about how all black people should die, or how I should dump my wife at the local homeless shelter and get a new woman at the strip club. The meanness has always been there. It has always been like this.
It broke my wife, who is now pretty much agoraphobic, after a lifetime of people pleasing just to make the mean people be quiet for a few minutes (never happened).
😐☹️ Trumpies and classists. It's a big reason why they aren't welcome for thanksgiving. They have a toxic attitude.
Honestly, I've simply adopted the position that if it's not said straight to my face, then it has zero relevance to me. One of the biggest reasons is the anonimity and in general the lack of need to stand up for those words. I have always been 100% against violence, but a lot of these people would be silent as a mouse if they got to find out what a fist tastes like. Sorry, the lack of consequences breeds this behaviour like nothing else.
The video with the comment section being tailored is really interesting. That‘s one more reason in my opinion why we should try to consume less on the internet. Don‘t get me wrong, I love the internet for so many things, but I really try to avoid getting „sucked“ into it for too long because it can be a really toxic place and bring out the worst in people.
Unfortunately we are also living in a world where being nice is considered „boring“ and for some reason being „boring“ seems to be a bad thing, because you need excitement in your life. I personally think it‘s the opposite, I embrace it, it gives me so much peace.
I'm done worrying about what people think is boring now. If I enjoy it and don't find it boring then it's not boring. I've fully embraced that I have the hobbies of a 90 year old and the only time I was this excited and passionate was when I was learning them as a child. Someone may call me boring, but to me it's boring losing a day to a hangover for the 20th time that month or sitting in jail all night with a DWI like a third of the people in my city
@ totally agree!
I'd blame social media for people's rudeness today rather than tv shows. Sitcoms tended to have plots that had characters deal with tough issues and would be like stories in books that taught empathy, but maybe it depends on the era of the shows. The shows of the '70s, '80s and '90s tended to be better than modern shows. Then, you also have social media and I think people tend to have a disconnect from the person they see on the screen. It's like they would view people on social media as a character who they wouldn't really see as a human being because the character on tv is fictional and the people on social media are human beings who are often not acting out a character and I don't think people make that distinction.
Reminds me of how some people dismiss social justice movements as mere virtue signaling, unfortunately I used to abuse the usage of the term 'virtue signaling'...
To be fair, virtue-signaling is a major issue in those movements in any case, and I think it’s worth mentioning that making weirdly smug comments about broad groups of people is something that virtue-signalers are often guilty of at least as much as anyone else. Just look at the ongoing Israel-Palestine violence issue: people who passionately support both sides of that are so prone to doing this that it makes having an actual rational, fact-based discussion on the issue all but impossible for anybody.
Virtue signaling does exist though, it's just that those people who do the virtue signaling ruin the movements who are runned by passionate activists.
People who don't believe in the fact that there are truly passionate activists who care about social justice are what I call cynic-signalling.
Look at you virtue signaling.
I think this quote dates back to a Netflix documentary called "The Social Dilemma", but I'm sure we've all seen the memes saying "If you're not paying for the product, then you are the product".
The truth in that statement has always chilled me.
I think the biggest issue might be the blurring of ages on the internet. People in their 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s and teens are all together in this crock-pot where some have aged past making certain comments but a majority are still kids who have not. Not everyone who's 25+ is mature obviously but some comments from teenagers trying to pass off as adults may contribute to the meanness.
I genuinely think about this every time someone leaves me a wannabe clever comment and I feel like saying something equally wannabe witty... so I really want to be arguing with 15 year olds at my old age?
I think this might be one of the biggest reasons people in their 20s and 30s are so difficult to be around now. Everyone has been brought down to the level of rotten teens. I’m 27 and I find it really difficult to make new friends because everyone’s so negative that I just don’t want to be around them. Celebrating our differences isn’t a thing anymore because everyone’s been effectively brainwashed into being openly critical of everything ALL THE TIME. You can’t like something that someone else doesn’t care for without being made fun of directly to your face.
I think it has more to do with social media and the relative anonymity of the Internet than anything. Physical age does not necessarily correlate to mental age, I’ve been part of different gaming communities (a hobby known for the toxicity of its most toxic members), and in that case I’ve seen more toxic 26-40+ year olds than teens honestly. I think it has more to do with the worst kind of people of all ages feeling free to vent their frustrations on others with little fear of consequences.
@@yellowblanka6058 literally, the internet was always a mean place because of anonymity.
I agree and realized this very recently. We are being bullied by anonymous kids online 😂
This is very interesting. I work with 12-14 year olds. I have for the past 10 years. I have noticed a massive and troubling shift in how they speak and relate to eachother. In the past 2-3 years they have gone from a little snarky to flat out viscous. Girls call eachother bit*h, who*re, stupid, and they're best friends. Boys are just as bad. Its gotten to where, if you give them a legitimate compliment on something they did and you are being genuinely kind. They will react aggressively or severely offended. They call you a liar and begin to degrade themselves and make the conversation as negative as possible. If they cant have a competition over who has had the most abusive upbringing, they just trauma dump until they start trying one upping eachother. Its so depressing its hard to even want to engage with them in the first place. No matter how positive or light hearted you try to be, they will find a way to make the conversation miserable. You: "Good morning Tyler, how was your weekend?" Tyler "It was good, but I just remembered my moms cat died when she was in school and I just cant get past it." You: "Oh Tyler, Im sorry to hear that. Do you have cat at home that is older or sick?" Tyler: "No? Why?" 😐 You:"Emily, your bird house it beautiful, you're very talented." Emily:"You shouldnt get excited over a dumb ugly bird house, you dont know how other people are feeling and what they are thinking. You should really think before you talk to people because you can make them uncomfortable." 😶
Omg????
@accordingtoalina the irony of it all is that mental health and emotional health is supposed to the key to happy children. Yet these children who 4 years ago, would be mentally and emotionally stable according to their age, are now intentionally seeking out things to make themselves depressed. The are actually searching for anything negative to feel comfortable or relevant in their own lives.
You deserve sainthood for working with younglings. I certainly could not do that. They would filet and BBQ me. Kudos to you.
@@mehmustache Well, they probably have not only the media, but lots of adults (including their family) who constantly spew negativity. They complain endlessly about their jobs to their children--even if objectively their job is actually really GOOD, and then act surprised when 10 years later, lil Jonny won't get a job. They complain nonstop about their spouse to their children--even if objectively their spouse is really GOOD, and then act shocked when 15 years later, lil Jenny won't even consider dating. I'm very sorry, but parents have a massive responsibility to maintain some level of positivity in the family and home, because it really does truly affect children.
I suspect that they probably degrade themselves because some adult in their lives has made a habit of degrading them (source: it happened to me, and it happened to my wife, at the hands of our families, and I suspect that it is all too commonplace for parents to take out their frustrations borne of career issues, economic factors, lack of unionisation, lack of community, and their own selfish greed upon their children...)
I consider the fact that my wife was, originally, an absolutely delightful person who believed in "practical optimism"--the ability of the individual to improve not only their own life, but the lives of everyone around them. She was abused by her mother and aunt in part for that optimism and radiant kindness, as both felt it was "childish" and a sign of developmental disability.
This problem has always existed, we just are giving it a name now.
I teach the same age range, and I notice similar things. A lot of them are very cynical and confrontational. It’s very weird! If I move their seat because they were talking, they want to argue with me how they shouldn’t be written up, in the middle of class, while other students are watching. I wasn’t going to write you up before and was just moving you for your own good, but now that you’re being verbally aggressive and defensive, in addition to wasting class time, I guess I will! I feel like we handled everything privately when I was a student even just 10-15 years ago. You’d talk to the teacher after class , or tell your parent and they could reach out to the teacher. The way pre-teens want to argue with me in front of everyone and gaslight me, is just crazy. I don’t feel respected.
Maybe people are more lonely, leading lives that are full of anxiety for the future ,money problems, and generally being more sad and disillusioned. So when they see others be happy and thrive and making their dreams come true, like a content creator, they lash out in jealousy, because it is easier to criticize and ridicule that take responsibility for yourself and the choices you made in your life and actually try to change and make your dreams come true. Consider this: happy and content people are busy leading happy and content lives. Sad ,discontent and feeling like a failure people on the other hand are the ones who moan and complain.
I just realize most of the people who are mean online will never say that to my face and I smile.
I get the impression that a disdainful attitude is what remains when one is on the brink of helplessness regarding how to act, and one cannot find the understandable and trustworthy part of reality. Others know and can, but one does not know how to achieve such a thing.
This is why I stay on UA-cam all the time.
The top comments here are still wholesome, you just need to make sure to never open the replies...
Even though not a lot of people are talking about this, I'm so glad more people are noticing this. I thought I was going crazy while looking at comment sections being brutal to the creator of the post. It feels unreal. Being fourteen and seeing people who are almost ADULTS say these things is bizarre 😞.
really glad i don't have tt or use reels very much, mostly on tumblr these days and saw her post and totally agreed! after not having it for a while i realized how the pros of it outweigh the cons and my days feel much longer!♥︎
I've recently noticed that the scent of internet culture (partic on social media) seems to be snark, sass, sarcasm, smart-assery and sardonicism. It's cool to be all these things on the internet and it shapes the cultural landscape to a fault. It's kinda low-key sad. I miss the era of UA-cam when being genuinely excited about the things you love wasn't considered 'cringe'.
As a person who likes internet brain rot and also reads classical literature, essays, and other so-called 'intellectual' stuff. I don't really know what to say!
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Same tbh
I feel the same way about not having consumed a lot of media when I was younger, like Avatar because I didn’t watch a lot of TV and TV channels as a kid but rather read some rather unpopular books (like the Edge Chronicles). I am also German so I realize that the internet like tumblr or instagram are mostly US centric (mostly tumblr popular posts are like this). And I agree with Hayden (Ethel Cain) so much, I love her for that. I always engage with media and my interests really sincerely so I am annoyed by the growing sentiment of coating everything in layers of irony and sarcasm. Especially the things like disguising your opinions/criticisms/insults as a "joke" just so they can backtrack from their accountability. As I said though I don’t have a lot of exposure to all these popular media things and people are so ready to jump at you for not being caught up with popular things
Interestingly enough, I started this channel in July of 2012. My intent was never to hurt people(good people at least), but to start conversation.
People seem to be so mean to me online like legit … once I told someone what OCD was and everyone attacked me for it told me I talk to much, stfu, I’m wrong , ect… I used the dsm5 for the legit meaning of OCD because people were making up crap about it yet IM THE ONE being yelled at IM the one being “bullied.
Thoughtful and well-made video about a problem we're all noticing.
It's so soul-crushing and draining. I want kindness and empathy to come back. Honest, compassionate vulnerability. I think that's gradually starting to.
Entertainment definitely influenced the way people talk and even interact.
The "I don't know who this celebrity is" one bugs me too because it feels like the person is trying to signal they're not shallow and interested in celebrities and therefore morally superior in a "not like other girls" way.
This is a sick world we now sadly live in. A lot of people are adopting witty cynicism to cope. Being negative is easy. It also gives people a sense of power.
Be negative and people yell at you for being a pessimist, a cynic, and a downer. Be positive and people tell you that you're naive and spreading toxic positivity. I've tried both, people criticize me either way. If I can't win either way, I'll take the easy way out and be negetive.
@@OzCroc
negativity has more disadvantages than having a positive mindset so Id rather not do that if I were you.
also you mentioned about struggling with using a positive mindset because people still criticize you for it which is sort of puzzling to me..
could it be a _"you problem"?_ like your approach could be wrong & not authentic which could be hurtful to them or is it more like a _"their problem"_ like maybe it's the people you choose to surround yourself with who are the cause/issue. It's possible the people who criticized you are either antisocial or cynical/pessimistic themselves and so they struggle to grasp the concept of vulnerability which is the key in accepting positive emotions
@@tutubism I kind of started out as a negetive person. But people always told me I was a downer, so I forced myself to be positive and not complain about anything. But then people said that was "toxic positivity", whatever that means. I just find being negetive more rewarding and easy. It comes naturally to me.
@OzCroc sorry, it's not quite clear to me if these "people" you refer to are either friends? or a family member/relatives?
and by being negative, do you mean to say that you vent or share your problems? in this case there's nothing wrong with it. unless, it becomes unhealthy like over-sharing or venting to the wrong person who is dismissive or amplifies negative feelings can be detrimental.
@tutubism It's mostly my family, as well as a few of my coworkers. And by negetive, I mean being pessimistic and cynical. I'm not mean, mind you, but I tend to look at the negative before I see the positive.
Hello Alina,
First off: thank you for making this thoughtful video. This is a huge subject and several of your points are reasons why I generally never comment on anything online.
I would like to add a thought to the discussion by asking if you've ever read or heard of a book called "Amusing ourselves to death"?
In short summary the author argues that when the medium changed from text to television (with regard to the main way of spreading information) we largely lost the ability to reflect on the information in favour of entertainment.
As television then and UA-cam/Instagram/TikTok now are visual mediums there really is no encouragement to pause and reflect on what is being said. Clips are judged on how good they are at keeping your attention.
Boring/slow/nuanced = bad.
Short/quick/shallow=good.
Pairing this idea with the question why some of us prefer to just be mean for entertainments sake feels natural to me. Why wouldn't one say the "funny" thing for attention? (And I personally would guess that judgemental humour is the more universal humour.) Thoughtful comments take time and effort and will not get you as much attention or appreciation.
Love this! So true
Thank you for the rec, I’ll have to check that out 👀
The polarizing comments make so much sense. I guess I never really thought about it. Its right in front of our faces too, the "Where are all the mean comments people are talking about?" or "Why are there no mean comments?" (That one also contributes to the idea that were so used to cynicism/snark)
I mean, its already done with our ads and the videos or posts recommended to us...why not comments?
I've been following your channel for quite a while and it just occurred to me, while I was typing a comment about how disheartening it can be to express any sort of opinion online, that I've never actually commented that I really love watching your videos. I love how you pick your topics and how you build your arguments :) Greetings from a fellow Romanian who also grew up with unrestricted access to Western cartoons and TV shows, it's good to have you here.
The last point you made (about even the comment sections being tailored) was so obvious to both miss and to not miss. For the record, I did not know this existed, but it makes sense that it does exist and I hate it. From a content creator's point of view, it's a miracle for engagement, but for the average internet user, it's a nightmare because the changing comment section ruins the video/meme being sent. I don't know if I articulated this well, but I wanted to get my thoughts out.
If you're interested in learning more about the trolling thing and the culture around the internet right now I would recommend the book Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates. It's more specifically about the manosphere but it takes a lot about how it is shaped by the internet culture and how it moves from the internet to real life. I will just warn that some of the content is quite shocking and can sometimes feel like it's lacking commentary for its examples
This is how people used to describe high school. Is the internet the new high school?
I'm only mean and confrontational on the internet because in real life I'm a pushover and never assert myself. I let myself get taken advantage of in real life, and then vent my frustrations on the internet. It's better to do that then to be mean to people in real life.
I think the irony epidemic has a lot to do with the likes system that most websites employ. It becomes a contest to see who can say the funniest or most rude thing possible and harvest the most likes because nothing gets the dopamine flowing than having a ton of people upvote or like your shit. Its validating in a way. Its why the term dont feed the trolls was born.
I have to admit while Ethel has a point. When I first saw it I was like “girl, you were part of the problem too”
Yesss, people were definitely like wait, weren’t you the queen of online irony?? I find it interesting that she wrote that considering that so many of her instagram lives/ general fan interactions are so saturated with absurdity. I wonder if it’s an age thing and she’s growing out of that “phase” or if the irony thing is fun for a while and then gets tiring for everyone
@ I can’t speak for anyone but i have to admit some minority of trans women originally found themselves on 4chan (hellscape of irony and bigotry if you ask me) and some of them are huge jerks. frankly Ethel I think spent at least some time there. I think she’s probably “growing out of it” but more like she’s been away from that space long enough now she’s realizing most people aren’t like that nor find it amusing
@@ladygrey41134chan loves trans people but you'll have to go to the NSFW parts of the website.
@MK_ULTRA420 thats literally how most of society treats trans people in general tbh
Hi Alina! This is the first video I've seen of yours; it was recommended to me on the homepage, and I wanted to (in all sincerity) write and say thank you for putting this out there. I've been, for a long time, working on trying to stop turning to humour and irony the moment I become uncomfortable. I've always struggled with sincerity and this was a strong reminder of its importance. I especially appreciated your points about what growing up in the sitcom-on-repeat age must have done to our speech patterns. I've never heard that take before, and I know it's going to be on my mind now. I think that would be a great avenue for future research. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos in the future :)
Pervasive insincerity and dishonesty is why I strongly dislike so much of what social media represents. It's also why people comparing themselves to others on social media is so detrimental - so much of it is a well-polished facade. Ironically, I think that's why so many people are unhappy - despite being more "connected" than ever, in terms of genuine conversation and human connection, we're more isolated than at any point in human history.
It became an epidemic to me when it wasn’t just “toxic stan twt” and bled into real life. The first time I heard 2 new friends go “(name) was rude last night, next time I see him I’ll let him know that behavior was uncalled for” I was astounded by the revelation I could NEVER have a conversation like that with my friends. Everything has to be unserious, authenticity like that is met with “lmfao it’s not that deep, bro thinks he’s the woke police. Okay, and i should care becauuuuse…why?” the constant need to assert how much you don’t care about anything at all is genuinely smothering. I feel like it’s a reaction to woke cringe culture making earnestness embarrassing, and an acceleration of gen z nihilistic thinking, like “the worlds on fire, who cares, nothing matters”
Two of my favorite content creators in the same video.... This is my Avengers Infinity war
EXACTLYYYYY
You raise a lot of good points, very in depth
On the topic of the effects of TV on linguistics: I highly recommend the book Slayer Slang by Michael Adams. It’s about Buffy the Vampire Slayer’s linguistics. And it’s also a really fascinating tracking of online fandom in the late 90s and early 2000s. He included not just language from the show, but also language invented on fan forums. And idk it’s just a fun time! 10/10 recommend
Late 2000s and 2010s meanness is what i would call more obvious "youre icky/fat/ugly/bad at dancing/unfashionable" meaness. Nowadays the mean style on TikTok is definitely either chronic unseriousness and making everyting a joke, OR "this isn't for me WHY is it on my algorith?!/why didn't you do this,that,etc/this isn't the best/this could be better" meanness. Like everyone deputized thenselves as the content morality police or a art/fashion/fitness critic because they think criticizing makes them shortcut to sound like an expert when it just makes them sound like a jerk.
It’s also goes by the name “Irony Poisoning”
I love the way your videos are always in conversation with other creators!! I see so many videos that are clearly inspired by other creators but the person won't credit them and it's so disappointing to see, like it costs nothing to give credit
I really like how you talk about these things. Calm and mature with and understanding attitude. I hope listening to you rubs off on me.
When I first came across Ethel Cain she instantly reminded me of Lana Del Rey...They are both clearly playing characters...Ethel is like a 2024 reimagining of a Manson family member...she has a forehead tattoo for god's sake...if Ethel was truly seeking a sincere reaction, she would go sing in dive bars or her bedroom or something...but instead she posts her "art" online because she wants to be known/famous/make money...if you decide to turn yourself into a digital product to be consumed, there are accompanying costs and benefits...the apple farmer doesn't get to decide what the customer does with the apple after he sells it
Very interesting points! I live in Lithuania and also noticed in news articles about influencers very rude comments, not just "who the h are you, no one cares, etc" but like really nasty comments. But I came to conclusion that most people write bad comments and those who don't have an opinion, or agree, don't express it so much.
I was attracted to the title, saw the timing, and thought, "fuck, no" (don't judge too harshly: it's late and I just opened YT to listen to some music before sleep), but ended up happily watching the whole thing... which is impressive for a ramble-y monologue! Anyway, I optimistically (?) imagine this resonates with a lot of people. Thanks.
This is really random, but I heard you say that you are not a native English speaker. Your English is so amazing. I had no idea that you did not grow up with the language. I really do like your voice. It sounds really free, like, I could listen to you speak forever.
I never knew I needed this video. It perfectly encapsulated everything Ive been feeling for such a long time. Thank you ❤
I watched the whole video. I loved hearing your perspective. I've noticed that people are insincere and mean. I feel like I am insincere, but nice. So I basically try not to dwell on negative emotions and actively avoid them. This is insincere because I tend to brush off negative feelings and not fully process what's happened, ruining my ability to understand why people linger in unhappiness
Interesting, I'm the opposite: totally scrupulous about engaging in good faith and being answerable to any request or challenge; yet I don't mind disagreement. Reading between the lines of your comment, about actively avoiding negative emotions and brushing off negative feelings, I have to imagine it's not just your inner world described but also flaking out on people you're displeased with. But to someone like me understanding and being understood is worthwhile even if we don't like what we see, and gotta conclude there's no reconciling differences.
always happy to see a video of yours pop up on my yt :] idk how relevant to the topic this is, but i often feel like people demand celebrities to have extreme opinions in order to bash them/ extremely agree with them. i often see an actor for example making a political comment (most often about a situation they know nothing about, really), and then the media promotes that comment more than any movie they have been in. feels like everyone's a politician as of lately. (this has it's positives, such as the fact we get to hear a variety of opinions, but even then it feels like one opinion gets promoted more than the other based on your algorithm, so idk how good this actually is). love your vids!
I have seen a plethora of videos on UA-cam where girls say if you're pretty you should be mean 😳 honestly I don’t understand.
originally i wasn't going to comment as i am guilty of passively consuming content and not directly engaging with most of it but i paused around 20min to say i whole heartedly agree wit you. i would argue about the timing that this cultural shift happened as i am not american and since my teenage years this irony poisoning is an integral part of my internet experience (and even in real life with friends) but - and i add this without having finished watching - the memeification of politics and the whole outrage-attention economy the far right dominates so well plays a big part in all of this.
as for why i paused around 20min, its just that i think you nailed your argument - it's about loneliness and community. behind every excess there is a desire. the desire here is to reach and connect when we don't experience such experiences in real life
edit: your following argument on comedy shaping our senses of interaction was brilliant! never heard of that and i think it's a very compelling angle. i will def discuss this one later with other people
What Virginia Woolf would have responded to Cicero, a quote directly plucked from her collection of essays called Granite and Rainbow. " We can see that there are many books, and we are frequently told that everyone can write nowadays. That may be true; yet we do not doubt that at the heart of this immense volubility, this flood and foam of language, this irreticence and vulgarity and triviality, there lies the heat of some great passion which only needs the accident of a brain more happily turned than the rest to issue in a shape which will last from age to age. It should be our delight to watch this turmoil, to do battle with the ideas and visions of our time, to seize what we can use, to kill what we consider worthless, and above all to realize that we must be generous to the people who are giving shape as best they can to the ideas within them. No age of literature is so little submissive to authority as ours, so free from the dominion of the great; none seems so wayward with its gift of reverence, or so volatile in its experiments." p. 29
This is some great stuff truly. Thank you
This is so true, I agree and have become more and more frustrated with this obsession with irony and passive aggressive war on sincerity.
Well, Alina, I think your video essays are aces. I love your work. You are so thorough!
i watched this whole video, gave it some thought, and then clicked away to watch paul mescal hot ones (lol) and immediately noticed the phenomenon you were talking about, where the comment section is just a competition to have the funniest quippiest reference or thirst comment. back here just to think out loud about what you said about disinhibition. i think it goes both ways where people feel comfortable saying silly/goofy/unserious stuff to brand/company accounts because you're not thinking of it as a person on the other end of the comments. but then influencers blur the line between being a real person and being a brand. and then i think it trickles down to any random reel that ppl come across, they feel comfortable saying whatever because it's just entertainment/commodity. idk just food for thought, thanks for an interesting video!
cicero "i ate something today i guess"
The more and more i keep seeing this from people on the internet like this and discord servers within the few past years the more i feel like it has to get worse before it could all get better
17:53 i'm white american but grew up (and still am) interested in east asian pop culture. my entire life i've grown up with people saying "how have you never seen ____?" so for years i always felt like the weird one for not knowing ~american cultu classics~ from the 80s/90s. most recently had a guy on my kickball team say to me "the problem is you only know about asian culture." like... no the problem is you think everything is western/white-centric lol and these are always the same people that will never watch a single international movie/show and if they do they have to watch it dubbed in english because they're too inconvenienced by having to watch something in a different language to watch with subtitles.
Many people are grasping for commonalities. So when you appear to wilfully shirk from things you could be friends around, of course people feel insecure about you.
Speaking as a former weirdo who was the only teen in Vancouver with muppet-blue dreadlocks, in 1986. Yes, nineteen-eighty-six. Punks at that time rejected everything mainstream. Some obnoxiously derided it; others were just ...um, going their own way. And I understand you: my son is half Japanese. Over the decades, beginning with the multiplication of TV channels and now with individually tailored media bubbles, I find Canadians have greatly diversified and maybe today there's _too much_ subculture at expense of local community or even family. You know, like shunning my uncle due to a political, religious, or ideological difference. And never speaking to the people on my street because we have nothing obvious in common.
I remember being disgusted by a Taiwanese girlfriend who like everyone in her ESL class owned a closed-caption capable TV set and watched a smarmy American show called _Friends._ I didn't mock her or anything, but was disappointed. I'd avoid that like it was toxic. But she was just forming a shared experience for others in the best way she knew. They all watched _Friends_ as a cultural study - and it's so obvious isn't it?
18:05 like when Cillian Murphy was up for an Oscar and people were making him sound like a brand new actor who "finally got noticed" when he's been in PB for ten years and had been in serval box office hots before that 😭 he's been known in the UK for years and i thought the US but sooooo many people just assumed because they haven't seen him Nolan just found a random Irish man on the street for his movie 😭
And this is still western media too which makes it weirder as well
Irony is the song of a bird, that has come to love its cage
i had to pause the video a couple of times to agree with you and literally talk to myself but when at 19:48 you said "desire for community" i go "I JUST SAID THIS BEFORE", i guess that's the reason why im commenting this now anyways but genuinely wanted to put it out there now ill go back to the vid bye
ok nvm, i just finished the video and on a serious note, the last bit with the girl's tiktok about different comment sections actually kinda scared me, that affects everything from the way we treat each other, to our perception of right and wrong thus elections and political matters (even tho i believe everything can be political at the end of the day).. the polarization of society is something weird to witness and im stating the obvious but it just makes me think, but anyways, i think that this phenomenon has only gotten worse after the pandemic, i never used to see comments like the ones i see now before 2020 or 2021.. maybe im being nostalgic of life before covid therefore remembering it as better than it is now but idk, im really confident in saying this, and with boomers and older people getting tiktok only God know what they see everyday for hours.. i feel like there's a huge difference in how gen z consumes media compared to boomers like.. i can literally SEE my father's brain getting totally fried when he stays on tiktok for HOURS scrolling quickly from a video to another and it's scary the shit that i hear from whatever he watches at times..
OHH AND PS i used to be a lot on twitter cause i genuinely thought it was funny back in a couple of years ago but everybody kept getting meaner and meaner by the day there, people even including myself being soooo out of touch with reality is insane, i disinstalled the app months ago and it feels so good to not really care to open that app anymore but still.. if i were to delete an app for the sake of my mental health id have to uninstall almost every social media i got on my phone.. and i sincerely hope i'll get there one day ngl
I'm going to start by apologizing because English is not my first language and I don't know if I'll be able to articulate my thoughts in a coherent way. But I would go further and call this "epidemic of irony" an "epidemic of cynicism" in general. Because this is on every corner of the internet. I've seen/received this kind of aggressively chronically online response into simpler pots like regular tweets giving opinions on movies or in more serious situations, like when I tweeted saying "Hey maybe it's not funny to turn a video of Taylor Swift's ex participating in a campaign against the genocide of the Palestinian people, in a tweet trying to make a joke about which Taylor Swift's boyfriend is more attractive"
Good discussion. Most of the time I'm not overly mean in person or online but I admittedly use irony to point out people's lack of logic, knowledge, and intelligence. I will reflect on this and look to make some changes personally, but I also think there is a difference between using ironic humor with people who are factually wrong with something they say or do vs using it to attack others when they have done nothing wrong or their opinions differ from yours.
I still don't understand why everyone hates Don't Look Up.
I like this channel. I'm subscribed (not sure when I did but I am). This is my third video from this channel of the night. On the first one I watched, I left 2 comments. Both of them were disagreeing with things you said in the video, and I tried not to be mean but they may have come off as mean. All this to say: I agreed with everything else you said except for those two points, but if I had commented about the parts I agreed with, I wouldn't have had literally anything to add to the conversation beyond "yeah good points." I think maybe the nature of commenting online in general encourages negativity, and not in the way that posting rage-bait can be a good financial move, but more just because if you don't have anything productive to add to a conversation, you typically don't, so unless you're going to agree/compliment someone via a little joke, there's really not gonna be a reason to comment a genuine reaction. Right?
So here you go: yeah I agree with you. Genuinely. Good video. Good points.
I... literally just had to stop myself from making a joke to make the compliment feel more "necessary."
This was an interesting video - got food for thought, time to mull it over. Thanks.
I don't respond to outrageous posts online because I assume that it's meant to stir shit and the poster is not interested in a genuine conversation. Avoiding social media helps too.
I am going to be entirely honest, I am one of the meanest ppl on internet, why? because is my arena to throw away all my frustration, is a place where I put the dirt and hell Im not being mean in a serious way, I often feel bad afterwards but I need to take the anger out of me somehow. Im guessing a lot of ppl does the same. Ofc Im not justifying but Im being honest about how I personally feel.
I kind of assume people who jump in with the meanest take are bots that are looking for engagement.
I am going to sound frivolous but, I wanted to congratulate you on getting furniture; having watched a lot of your videos since last summer, I remember you kept mentioning how you don't have any. Therefore, I immediately noticed you now have furniture. And yes, this is a useless comment, but that's how I choose to engage with the video today 😆
Hahahaha thank you! It’s slowly but steadily coming in (new bed arrived 2 days ago). As it turns out adult furniture is expensive and takes ages to arrive 😬
Anddd being nice feels gooddd being nice is fun and joyful people will surprise you
I've been feeling this way but could not articulate it. It's as if all aspect of life has become a never-ending meme.
passive aggressive people who use joke to be passive aggressive are cowards that's the end of it
I blame tt, the amount of young people that spend so much time on that app that it has completely rotted their brains and they've forgotten how to be normal individuals. Sorry not sorry tt heads
I was diagnosed w PTSD because of abuse I experienced in the music industry. Aside from fearing for my life at moments, it also completely destroyed my self worth. Now when I go out into the world and experience this shit IRL w the younger generations, I get literally so triggered and it completely messes up my emotional regulation to the point that I won’t even leave my house for anywhere other than the grocery store…let alone trying to talk about it with someone on the internet. I don’t even have that to try and find community even more. You never know how much your snarky clap back can effect someone. Just saying…
I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing this 😊
I thought that this is a notevenemily video, cuz the first clip is from her vid XD
I notevenemily-baited you
Justin Y's been real quiet since this video dropped