Never seen Skoda branded voltmeters before. I love how you (presumably as a tourist) were allowed to roam around and approach heavy working machinery up close, without physical barriers and without being closely supervised.
@@DiodeGoneWild Haha, are you saying that over there, microwave oven manufacturers don't put the warning "don't use this equipment for drying your pet" into the owner's manual? :D
@@DiodeGoneWildthat's the problem with countries like Germany, protecting people from everything just creating a generation that don't realise the dangers...
I liked the fan blowing on the pillow block bearing. In the copper mine mills, we used fans to temporarily cool the bearings until we could change them out with a new set. Your cat would have been a great attention-getter during the fan scene. I enjoyed the video!
One good reason for wooden gears in this application - There is a lot of inertia in the drive train. If anything stops sudden, upstream (toward the turbine), or downstream (toward the machine room), those wooden gear teeth will shear away, thus avoiding damage to the drive train or machinery attached to it. Example; If a large lump of wood found its way into the turbine and stopped it dead. Imagine the mass, and therefore inertia, in the generator and drive shaft. The turbine stops in an instant, but the generator and shaft, with all that mass, is going to continue turning. There would be a conflict between driving and driven gears. So, build a gears system that will break up and save the rest of the machinery from breaking bearings and twisting shafts. In a more modern scenario, one might use flange couplings and shearbolts instead, but the result is the same, and the method is the same - a deliberate weak link in the power train.
All so true! Maybe we see one or two question left, how often need the wooden tooth wheels to become replaced, or how often has the play, increasing over time, to be corrected? And how many month of the year they have enough water to run it full capacity? (Is there a reservoir?)
Plus wooden gears are generally quite tolerant of running with water as lubricant, or with only the odd bit of oil lubrication on them ,soaking it up and holding it. As well easy to repair, simply use locally sourced hardwoods, and cut sections of gear teeth, likely using a pattern they already have, and a simple machine that uses a bandsaw blade to machine the teeth into the blank, then another jig to shape the teeth further. Wear is compensated by moving the gear tooth on the horizontal shaft, to place the clearance correct, the long key slots and keys show just how much movement can be tolerated. Belt is also fixable, just cut square, and place the strip of staples over, and hammer closed, then slide a steel rod through to attach the opposite sides, and your repair is done, just move the synchronous generator a bit closer on the guides, and align to keep the belt tracking correct on the pulley crown. You can see the large flywheel bearing is worn badly, as they are actively cooling it, likely it needs to be demounted, and then have new Babbit metal poured into the bearing halves, and then have the oil groove cut out properly again, and then aligned back on the shaft. Easy to do, or they can simply get a modern self aligning bearing there, and place on the pedestal, using shims as needed, and just apply oil to it once a week to keep the bearing happy.
@@SeanBZA Thank you! Yes - very likely the wooden gears - because of wood as the construction material of course - come with a lower E-modulus, it will flex a little more or lighter than steel or other metals, therefore bridging the gap of slightly different tolerances between two teeth better and more easy than steel would do. ... And of course everybody agrees with the self alignent bearing, indeed would be the way better or only state of the art choice, you fully correct mentoined.🏋️👍☀️
Looks, sounds and probably also smells absolutely friggin' lovely! The big flywheel and transmission brings back the memories of steam engines powering whole factories. And oh my goodness, what a breathtaking control panel! Thing of beauty, joy for ever. The "video telemetry" made me laugh :)
Very cool. Thanks! The museum was opened in 1997 after "extensive reconstruction" and that might be when the 110kW generator went into service as it's dated 1992 and was probably sourced second-hand to save a few koruna. They only run the generator for tourists, so it's not being used most of the time.
@@DiodeGoneWild 1992 motors looked very similar to that, you got them either in cast iron frame, which that likely is, or aluminium frame for the lighter ones. But yes it could date from any time from the 1950's, as that frame size has undergone very little change since after the war, just improvements in wire insulation made them make higher power in the same frame by running hotter, and better laminates and closer tolerance bearings got them more efficiency as well.
What a beautiful vintage power station, great set up with the wooden gears and the belt drive to the 75 kW alternator. And those Skoda meters on marble panels. Thanks for showing. (Never knew that Skoda made meters)
Skoda made lot of stuff especially in the past, from everything power related including nuclear reactors to trains, trams, tanks, howitzers... and cars too :D
Just like GE, who used to make everything from light bulbs, to fuses, to complete trains, to power plants, and even submarines, plus they also at one time made computers and even space craft, and to a small extent still have subsidiaries and contracts that do all of that still.
It is, DiodeGoneWild is an awesome youtuber, surprised he didn't take anything apart on site for autopsy. Nothing was de-energized on that site visit.@@NiddNetworks
Wonderful. Too bad that many of these stations were closed accross Europe while we are starving for clean energy. A friend of mine running a foundry had a similar one, except the last belt was made of leather and the 300kW generator dated back in 1920s..
That's really cool. I love older machines and buildings like this one as they actually have some visual flavor. I didn't even know that a 3 phase motor could be used as a generator. I tried this myself to no avail. (Got around 30 mV at the highest slowly turning up the speed until it was rotating at nearly twice it's rated RPM when powered.) Maybe it's one specifically designed so it can be a motor or generator?
Induction motor acts very poorly, unless you add in an excitation coil in the rotor, and provide some initial excitation power to it, which will then self generate the field, though you will need to run faster than synchronous speed if you want to extract power, though with a regular motor you can drive it at 1560RPM and get useful power out of it when grid tied, as it will self excite. To get it to be self starting you need to have either a permanent magnet in the rotor, or to have either slip rings and DC excitation, or have a coaxial transformer and a bridge rectifier, to allow AC excitation of the rotor field. You will have poor power control with a permanent magnet, as the constant field means the voltage depends heavily on load, but with either brushes or transformer you can adjust excitation current to allow constant voltage output with load. Easy to do automatically, as you use a solenoid fed from output voltage and current, to adjust a power resistor, generally a carbon granule pile with electrodes, or a linear variable resistor, to control current in the rotor, keeping voltage constant over load.
Any asynchornous motor will work as a generator, if it's connected to the grid it works as is, the faster you turn it the more power it generates, the limit is the rated power of the motor. The output frequency will be kept by the mains and the motor will draw reactive power from the grid, turn it into active power and send it back to the grid. To use an asynchronous motor (single or three phase) as a generator you need to do a couple things: 1.- "Flash" the rotor to give it some residual magnetic field so it can self-excite. You only have to connect any winding to a 12V battery for a couple seconds. 2.- Add capacitor(s) in parallel with the winding(s) If it's a single phase motor with a start & run capacitor (permanently connected to the start winding) you can replace it by one of higher capacity or add a second one in parallel with the original capacitor. If it is a single-phase motor with a switched start capacitor, that capacitor is typically not rated for continuous operation, also it will be disconnected from the circuit via a centrifugal switch once the motor reaches operating speed. You will have to jump the centrifugal switch and replace the capacitor with a normal start & run capacitor of high enough capacity. For a 3-phase motor you need a capacitor in parallel with each winding. Those capacitors must be rated for the motor voltage plus some safety margin, if the motor is wired in WYE/STAR the ouput voltage will be 1.73 (square root of 3) times higher than in DELTA. I never investigated if there is a formula to calculate the necessary capacitor, you can try with 40 to 60 microfarads for each kW of the motor. For 3 phase use a capacitor of that capacity for each phase. Then you have to turn the motor at its synchronous speed without any big load connected to it, you can have a voltmeter to see when it starts generating electricity and at what voltage. When it starts generating electricity you can connect the load, but whatever you're using to turn the motor must have enough power. Do not use it to power sensitive electronics because the voltage is dependent of the capacitor capacity, motor speed and power factor of the load. Asynchronous generators are only safe for powering incandescent lights, heaters and power tools without buil-in speed controllers. Some simple speed controllers won't have any problem but today some tools have microcontroller based speed controllers and are not so well protected against overvoltages. ⚠And do not forget the weak link (yourself) if you touch the wires you can *die* ⚡☠ so remember to insulate any connection before playing with it. Before stopping the engine or whatever you use to turn the motor you have to disconnect the load or it will lose the residual magnetic field and you'll have to flash it again. You can search for some videos o people doing those conversions, most are doing it the wrong way with exposed wires/connections⚡☠ search for: "Asynchronous generator with 192F single-cylinder air-cooled diesel engine in island mode." "Self excited induction generator (part 1)" "Electric generator from asynchronous motor!DIY!" "Experiment: asynchronous motor as a asynchronous generator" "Playing with an asynchronous triphase motor generator"
@@ruben_balea The rotor on an asynchronous motor is soft iron, so it doesn't retain any residual magnetism; the rotor actually consists of several copper bars which are effectively shorted and act through induction as the armature winding, it's not a process that can easily be reversed. VFDs do use the back EMF to control the phasing of the drive to an asynchronous motor, but the signal they measure is small and can't provide significant current, and that only works when the stator is being powered. A major clue about what is really going on is the belt, it's tight on the upper span and slack on the lower span, if it was loading the drivetrain it would be tight on the lower span, so the motor is actually driving the system.
@@cambridgemart2075 Do you think I'm speaking from "things I seen on the internet" or something? The rotor does retain enough magnetism both on synchronous and asynchronous motors/generators and it only needs to do so to self excite while working in "island mode" because when it's connected to the grid the magnetic field of the rotor is created by induction no matter if it's working as a motor or as a generator. The residual magnetism does not last forever, that's why generators must be "flashed" after sitting for some years. Generators with synchronous alternators and battery start can use battery power to excite the alternator, but models with pull starter, spring starter or compressed air starter, etc. all depend on the residual magnetism except those with permanent magnets. At 5:20 you can see the previous alternator nameplate and it clearly said "ASYNCRONNI MOTOR 3~" because it was made to be sold as a motor in 99.99% of the cases but since it was sold to be used as a generator they stamped "/ GENER." over the "3~" and "490/509" on the RPM field so that the technicians who had to install and maintain it could know its operating conditions both as a motor and as a generator. I don't know where you have *imagined* seeing slack in the belt, if that flat belt had any slack it would not transmit power in any way and would burn in a few minutes, it is not the flat leather belt of old hit & miss engines that only had to transmit 10 HP at most and worked the same even if it was quite loose.
Dobry Den. Found the museum on Google Maps and had a look at all the pictures on there. What a beautiful place to visit. Where you just visiting also? I am coming to Prague in March next year for a holiday and my birthday. I wanted to go to Brno but no direct flights from UK. I will look at the all day travel by train and see Pisku/Pisek? if time allows, but definitely going to see Brno. My plan is to live in Czechia when I retire as it is a beautiful country and I am learning the language in small steps. I hope to find my Czech friend who was living in the UK but went back home. We lost touch in 2019 :( Everyone I have spoken to from Czechia has been very kind to me and all hope I find him. Thank you for sharing your visit. What an amazing little museum! český a hrdý! Děkuji
I been working in this kind of place here in sweden and the volt meter here was mad by ”A.S.E.A” and have swastika symbol betweed the letter! I think the place was built in the beginning of 1900s! I working as a carpenter, and we make a concrete mold to a new intake to the a new turbine! I think i was klinker on the grund but wery dirty! This place look like you can eat on the ground! Look like a “mint condition” The second place, we rebuild a new place for a new turbine and a new intake!. Nice video and nice to se! 👍🏻
Here in the UK, in Durham city, they turned the former site of an old watermill into a modern hydro turbine on the river Wear in the city centre, using the existing weir (yes, they're pronounced the same way!) to feed the river water into it, all to generate power for the new builds they were doing in the area, that's what they said at least, it all goes into the grid before it goes to the properties... :P
I went to the falls in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, in the early 1970's and the door had been left unlatched on an old power plant there, I think the city used it till sometime well into the 60's, really wanted to go in and check it out, but chickened out, but another door was wide open, but it was just stacked full of firebrick. I would guess it would have looked much like this plant. Last I went up there with my kids in the 90's, I'm pretty sure none of it was there anymore. Kind of wish I went home and got my camera and done a self tour.
As an hydroelectric engineer I can say this old plant is very inefficient : 75kW for such a waterflow it's very low. For example in France I have designed the electric part of an 300kW turbine with almost the same waterflow and height of drop, but in my case it was using a Kaplan turbine. Here they seems actually using Francis turbine, which is not the best choice for this type of hydroelectric plant.
It's a plant originally built in 1887, 26 years before Kaplan turbine was patented. Francis turbine was back then the most efficient one in existence. And now it's primarily a museum, whatever money they make selling power to the grid is just a nice bonus on top.
I really love it when old technology is still used. And it seems to contribute still to the energy - great stuff! I couldn't see the wooden gears in action (too fast) but the old damaged one - really impressive. What kind of wood did they use - oak? The generator seems small for 75 kW, but it may be visually deceptive...
3:00 I think this is not good as it highlights not only the losses in the system but the damage being inflicted on the part from friction, I assume either from poor maintenance or from the bearing getting close to their replacement due date.
I personally tried the 3phase asynch motor as generator once by connecting three capacitors between the phases and it absolutely did work, i even got quite the chock off of it as i did not expect it to work and thus used the terminal block to hold the motor with one hand and a car radiator fan motor as a drive motor with the other. The whole thing first spun up to the fan motors no load speed, and then after a second or so it suddenly plummeted down to a lower rpm with a significant load on the radiator fan motor, and i was greeted with whatever hundreds of three phase volts it put out into my hand. I've never been able to figure out how a 3 phase induction motor does the genrating bit, neither have i been able to get a explanation of how/why it works. But i assume it has to do something with residual magnetic fields in the rotor that is enough to tickle the resulting LC circuit formed by the motor windings and the capacitors into resonance that somehow builds until the voltage is up to roughly what it would be running as a motor. As i understand it, you have to choose the right capacitance for these three caps in order to get the proper 50/60Hz line frequency though. Unless you don't need them when tied to the grid, and you just need to overspeed the motor a bit to make it generate instead of consume.
Hoooooly, if I brought my face as close to the machines as your camera was, I would have been wrapped around the shaft almost instantly from my long hair. Brings a new appreciation for "do not touch" warning signs
Did the original generator have a different voltage? In Hungary we had 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 127, 130, 185, 210, 220, 230, 240, 250 and 260 V before standarization from the early 1900s to the 1940s. The Ganz Works made a lot of generators designed for 42 Hz. Some of them remained in service in various parts in Europe until the 1940s, maybe for later in some rare cases. According to Wikipedia, some power companies used 25 Hz in Germany, as well as in North America. It was interesting before standardization.
I guess the very first generator probably was 110 or 120V. The frequency might have been already 50Hz or maybe the old 42Hz, but I can't really find any information on it.
Super neat! I deal with a lot of mechanical stuff at work and I've never seen a belt like that. Mostly V belts, the wide ones just with more v grooves. Must be designed to allow slip with that polished drive?
Very old design, used to use leather and then spliced them together with staples. width of belt determines power transfer, running on crowned pulleys, so that they will run central, and you adjust them to do that. You can even run then at angles, getting up to 90 degrees of axial alignment, and can also make them run in different directions by flipping the belt 180 degrees mid span, though you wear the belt faster, and power transfer is limited. but your belt is bought in on a roll, and you join it with a special staple set that you hammer into the ends, and use a metal rod to join the loops of the staple together.
Thanks for this bit of history Daniel. Is that the Skoda emblem in those gauges? I do know of the proud history of Skoda before the creation of the Iron Curtain, and that many German precision parts used in WW2 were made by them. Were they like Tesla in manufacturing just about anything and everything?
If you care to read it (source Wikipedia): Škoda was an engineering company founded in Pilsen in 1866 by Emil Škoda. From the original armor factory, Škoda's plants have grown to the level of a large metallurgical and engineering concern. Today, the tradition of the original Škoda plants is continued by a number of independent engineering companies that bear the Škoda name in their name. At the turn of the 20th and 21st centuries, the concern ended up in bankruptcy due to the bad economic situation and was divided and sold off. Today, the tradition of the original Škoda plants is continued by a number of independent engineering companies that bear the name Škoda in their name. Probably the only direct successor can be considered the Pilsen company Škoda Transportation, which is involved in the production of trams and locomotives (it is sometimes referred to as the "main heir of Škoda Plzeň"). Its subsidiary Škoda Vagonka manufactures other rolling stock, the other subsidiary Škoda Electric manufactures trolleybuses and traction drive components, including electric motors. In the past, various related companies that still use the name Škoda are, for example, the Škoda Auto car manufacturer in Mladá Boleslav, the nuclear energy technology manufacturer Škoda JS in Pilsen, or the Doosan Škoda Power turbine and machinery manufacturer in Pilsen.
It would appear that this museum piece is now running in reverse? It seems that the alternator has been replaced by a three phase induction motor to run most of the shafts and pulleys for visual effect. Its all too quiet to be taking its power from the water.
No, an induction motor can run as a generator operated above synchronous. It's geneating just 45kW, so not as loud as a big hydro power plant. And also from a video, you can't really tell the loudness, the camera normalizes the volume.
I don't know why, but I feel like if it didn't have the buzzing sound, it would be quite relaxing to watch. But it's still very interesting to see such "old fashioned" technology still in use. And why not? If the water's going to flow by anyway, why not use its energy?
I think it has to be a hard wood, most likely oak (maybe hickory or elm). In old mills, the wooden gears lasted for at least decades, sometimes for centuries.
This tiny thing can't influcence the EU mains frequency. The water flow only influences how much power is generated. And the water flow is controlled using gates.
This uses an induction (asynchronous) machine, not a synchronous one. You can spin it faster, it just increases the slip. It would be more tricky with syncronous generators.
no, the brake isn't applied in operation. It's connected to mains (not an island), so the mains takes care of keeping it at constant speed. And they're using gates to control the water flow, this regulates how much power is generated.
Often brakes are used to avoid turbine runaway in case of a breaker trip. If the breaker trips (for example due to an overload) the generator wouldn't oppose torque and the turbine would start spinning too fast (before the gates have time to close) if no brake is applied.
It looks really nice! Have that motor been modified to work as a generator? It only says "motor" on it's nameplate. the 2nd one installed before says "motor/generator".
@@DiodeGoneWild I'm asking because recently I watched GreatScott's video in which he was trying to use such an induction motor as a generator, and he failed, due to the fact that despite spinning the rotor there was almost no voltage. That's quite interesting. ua-cam.com/video/05qJM-zZ4ng/v-deo.html
It will not work as a generator when the grid is down. But as long as the grid is operational, if you spin it faster than it'll turn when you're using it as a motor, it will start supplying energy to the grid. You can sorta use 3 phase asynchronous motors as a generator by putting it in Y and putting capacitors (motor run) between the legs of the Y, but it will not have any form of voltage stabilisation.
wery interesting , i realy like using asinchronus motor as generator , i woud like to make my own generator by runing asinchronus motor with kondenzators but i am not sure if it wil have enought eficienci , i tried running 1,5kw motor as a generator and i got about 500W per fase so god enought i thing but i woud like to use 3kw one that i have so it woud run my home no problem
Bad plan because the asynchronous motor used as a generator will not have any stabilisation of the voltage at all. If you really are putting effort into making one yourself, just get a proper generator that you can control the voltage of, by varying the current through the field winding. If you just want to use it to backfeed into the grid, you can use the asynchronous motor but without the capacitors. The grid will take care of frequency and voltage stabilisation. As soon as the grid goes down, your asynchronous motor will stop working as a generator.
well, with the asynchronous 75kW it will probably be able to feed just a small, limited number of consumers and will not be connected to the EU supply-mains, right? If it runs asynchronously, at a higher speed with f>50Hz it can't be rigidly and phase-synchronously coupled to the EU control network and therefore just running in "island operation". Wooden gears, that's nice .)
@@DiodeGoneWild Yes, you're right, I mixed it up, but it's a little difficult to understand that a “lower” rotating field can be pumped up with active power by higher rotation speed ...and the frequency isn’t pulled up. ..but doesn't matter - I was just wondering
Yes, a working museum. Visitors have to have some common sense. And on the door, there's a sign saying "pets are welcomed" with a picture of dogs and even cats :D.
Never seen Skoda branded voltmeters before.
I love how you (presumably as a tourist) were allowed to roam around and approach heavy working machinery up close, without physical barriers and without being closely supervised.
People still have some instinct, common sense and self-preservation here ;)
@@DiodeGoneWild Haha, are you saying that over there, microwave oven manufacturers don't put the warning "don't use this equipment for drying your pet" into the owner's manual? :D
@@_wave64_no, counts here assume you have some common sense - and if you don't, go cry to your parents.
@@DiodeGoneWildthat's the problem with countries like Germany, protecting people from everything just creating a generation that don't realise the dangers...
It really looks like more as museum... but with real use (as powerplant) instant of only documentary function
I liked the fan blowing on the pillow block bearing. In the copper mine mills, we used fans to temporarily cool the bearings until we could change them out with a new set. Your cat would have been a great attention-getter during the fan scene. I enjoyed the video!
I enjoyed that part as well!
One good reason for wooden gears in this application - There is a lot of inertia in the drive train. If anything stops sudden, upstream (toward the turbine), or downstream (toward the machine room), those wooden gear teeth will shear away, thus avoiding damage to the drive train or machinery attached to it.
Example; If a large lump of wood found its way into the turbine and stopped it dead. Imagine the mass, and therefore inertia, in the generator and drive shaft. The turbine stops in an instant, but the generator and shaft, with all that mass, is going to continue turning. There would be a conflict between driving and driven gears. So, build a gears system that will break up and save the rest of the machinery from breaking bearings and twisting shafts.
In a more modern scenario, one might use flange couplings and shearbolts instead, but the result is the same, and the method is the same - a deliberate weak link in the power train.
All so true! Maybe we see one or two question left, how often need the wooden tooth wheels to become replaced, or how often has the play, increasing over time, to be corrected?
And how many month of the year they have enough water to run it full capacity? (Is there a reservoir?)
Plus wooden gears are generally quite tolerant of running with water as lubricant, or with only the odd bit of oil lubrication on them ,soaking it up and holding it. As well easy to repair, simply use locally sourced hardwoods, and cut sections of gear teeth, likely using a pattern they already have, and a simple machine that uses a bandsaw blade to machine the teeth into the blank, then another jig to shape the teeth further. Wear is compensated by moving the gear tooth on the horizontal shaft, to place the clearance correct, the long key slots and keys show just how much movement can be tolerated. Belt is also fixable, just cut square, and place the strip of staples over, and hammer closed, then slide a steel rod through to attach the opposite sides, and your repair is done, just move the synchronous generator a bit closer on the guides, and align to keep the belt tracking correct on the pulley crown.
You can see the large flywheel bearing is worn badly, as they are actively cooling it, likely it needs to be demounted, and then have new Babbit metal poured into the bearing halves, and then have the oil groove cut out properly again, and then aligned back on the shaft. Easy to do, or they can simply get a modern self aligning bearing there, and place on the pedestal, using shims as needed, and just apply oil to it once a week to keep the bearing happy.
@@SeanBZA Thank you! Yes - very likely the wooden gears - because of wood as the construction material of course - come with a lower E-modulus, it will flex a little more or lighter than steel or other metals, therefore bridging the gap of slightly different tolerances between two teeth better and more easy than steel would do.
... And of course everybody agrees with the self alignent bearing, indeed would be the way better or only state of the art choice, you fully correct mentoined.🏋️👍☀️
Old windmills had everything made from wood, axles, gears, blades. Some are still in working condition here in Estonia.
Их не переоборудовали?
Looks, sounds and probably also smells absolutely friggin' lovely! The big flywheel and transmission brings back the memories of steam engines powering whole factories. And oh my goodness, what a breathtaking control panel! Thing of beauty, joy for ever. The "video telemetry" made me laugh :)
Very cool. Thanks! The museum was opened in 1997 after "extensive reconstruction" and that might be when the 110kW generator went into service as it's dated 1992 and was probably sourced second-hand to save a few koruna. They only run the generator for tourists, so it's not being used most of the time.
They had a bad time in 2002 (all equipment got flooded)
The generator dated 1992 seems way too old for 1992. Maybe the date actually means when it was refurbished (rewinded)...
@@DiodeGoneWild 1992 motors looked very similar to that, you got them either in cast iron frame, which that likely is, or aluminium frame for the lighter ones. But yes it could date from any time from the 1950's, as that frame size has undergone very little change since after the war, just improvements in wire insulation made them make higher power in the same frame by running hotter, and better laminates and closer tolerance bearings got them more efficiency as well.
What a beautiful vintage power station, great set up with the wooden gears and the belt drive to the 75 kW alternator. And those Skoda meters on marble panels. Thanks for showing. (Never knew that Skoda made meters)
Skoda made lot of stuff especially in the past, from everything power related including nuclear reactors to trains, trams, tanks, howitzers... and cars too :D
Just like GE, who used to make everything from light bulbs, to fuses, to complete trains, to power plants, and even submarines, plus they also at one time made computers and even space craft, and to a small extent still have subsidiaries and contracts that do all of that still.
Love that Rodalco2007 is here too. "De-energize device."..... er.... you mean turn off the water? Ha ha
It is, DiodeGoneWild is an awesome youtuber, surprised he didn't take anything apart on site for autopsy. Nothing was de-energized on that site visit.@@NiddNetworks
Wonderful. Too bad that many of these stations were closed accross Europe while we are starving for clean energy. A friend of mine running a foundry had a similar one, except the last belt was made of leather and the 300kW generator dated back in 1920s..
Danke!
Thanks for sharing this.
I like this old and still working maschines...
Instant fall into love to the LaRgE panel of powermeters
I like them too ;). Thank you for your support!
That's awesome Dany.
That's really cool. I love older machines and buildings like this one as they actually have some visual flavor.
I didn't even know that a 3 phase motor could be used as a generator. I tried this myself to no avail. (Got around 30 mV at the highest slowly turning up the speed until it was rotating at nearly twice it's rated RPM when powered.) Maybe it's one specifically designed so it can be a motor or generator?
it has do do with the magnetic field inside the rotor. maybe they where too low initially for your motor to produce any voltage
Induction motor acts very poorly, unless you add in an excitation coil in the rotor, and provide some initial excitation power to it, which will then self generate the field, though you will need to run faster than synchronous speed if you want to extract power, though with a regular motor you can drive it at 1560RPM and get useful power out of it when grid tied, as it will self excite.
To get it to be self starting you need to have either a permanent magnet in the rotor, or to have either slip rings and DC excitation, or have a coaxial transformer and a bridge rectifier, to allow AC excitation of the rotor field. You will have poor power control with a permanent magnet, as the constant field means the voltage depends heavily on load, but with either brushes or transformer you can adjust excitation current to allow constant voltage output with load. Easy to do automatically, as you use a solenoid fed from output voltage and current, to adjust a power resistor, generally a carbon granule pile with electrodes, or a linear variable resistor, to control current in the rotor, keeping voltage constant over load.
Any asynchornous motor will work as a generator, if it's connected to the grid it works as is, the faster you turn it the more power it generates, the limit is the rated power of the motor.
The output frequency will be kept by the mains and the motor will draw reactive power from the grid, turn it into active power and send it back to the grid.
To use an asynchronous motor (single or three phase) as a generator you need to do a couple things:
1.- "Flash" the rotor to give it some residual magnetic field so it can self-excite.
You only have to connect any winding to a 12V battery for a couple seconds.
2.- Add capacitor(s) in parallel with the winding(s)
If it's a single phase motor with a start & run capacitor (permanently connected to the start winding) you can replace it by one of higher capacity or add a second one in parallel with the original capacitor.
If it is a single-phase motor with a switched start capacitor, that capacitor is typically not rated for continuous operation, also it will be disconnected from the circuit via a centrifugal switch once the motor reaches operating speed. You will have to jump the centrifugal switch and replace the capacitor with a normal start & run capacitor of high enough capacity.
For a 3-phase motor you need a capacitor in parallel with each winding. Those capacitors must be rated for the motor voltage plus some safety margin, if the motor is wired in WYE/STAR the ouput voltage will be 1.73 (square root of 3) times higher than in DELTA.
I never investigated if there is a formula to calculate the necessary capacitor, you can try with 40 to 60 microfarads for each kW of the motor. For 3 phase use a capacitor of that capacity for each phase.
Then you have to turn the motor at its synchronous speed without any big load connected to it, you can have a voltmeter to see when it starts generating electricity and at what voltage.
When it starts generating electricity you can connect the load, but whatever you're using to turn the motor must have enough power.
Do not use it to power sensitive electronics because the voltage is dependent of the capacitor capacity, motor speed and power factor of the load.
Asynchronous generators are only safe for powering incandescent lights, heaters and power tools without buil-in speed controllers. Some simple speed controllers won't have any problem but today some tools have microcontroller based speed controllers and are not so well protected against overvoltages.
⚠And do not forget the weak link (yourself) if you touch the wires you can *die* ⚡☠ so remember to insulate any connection before playing with it.
Before stopping the engine or whatever you use to turn the motor you have to disconnect the load or it will lose the residual magnetic field and you'll have to flash it again.
You can search for some videos o people doing those conversions, most are doing it the wrong way with exposed wires/connections⚡☠ search for:
"Asynchronous generator with 192F single-cylinder air-cooled diesel engine in island mode."
"Self excited induction generator (part 1)"
"Electric generator from asynchronous motor!DIY!"
"Experiment: asynchronous motor as a asynchronous generator"
"Playing with an asynchronous triphase motor generator"
@@ruben_balea The rotor on an asynchronous motor is soft iron, so it doesn't retain any residual magnetism; the rotor actually consists of several copper bars which are effectively shorted and act through induction as the armature winding, it's not a process that can easily be reversed. VFDs do use the back EMF to control the phasing of the drive to an asynchronous motor, but the signal they measure is small and can't provide significant current, and that only works when the stator is being powered.
A major clue about what is really going on is the belt, it's tight on the upper span and slack on the lower span, if it was loading the drivetrain it would be tight on the lower span, so the motor is actually driving the system.
@@cambridgemart2075 Do you think I'm speaking from "things I seen on the internet" or something?
The rotor does retain enough magnetism both on synchronous and asynchronous motors/generators and it only needs to do so to self excite while working in "island mode" because when it's connected to the grid the magnetic field of the rotor is created by induction no matter if it's working as a motor or as a generator.
The residual magnetism does not last forever, that's why generators must be "flashed" after sitting for some years.
Generators with synchronous alternators and battery start can use battery power to excite the alternator, but models with pull starter, spring starter or compressed air starter, etc. all depend on the residual magnetism except those with permanent magnets.
At 5:20 you can see the previous alternator nameplate and it clearly said "ASYNCRONNI MOTOR 3~" because it was made to be sold as a motor in 99.99% of the cases but since it was sold to be used as a generator they stamped "/ GENER." over the "3~" and "490/509" on the RPM field so that the technicians who had to install and maintain it could know its operating conditions both as a motor and as a generator.
I don't know where you have *imagined* seeing slack in the belt, if that flat belt had any slack it would not transmit power in any way and would burn in a few minutes, it is not the flat leather belt of old hit & miss engines that only had to transmit 10 HP at most and worked the same even if it was quite loose.
Dobry Den. Found the museum on Google Maps and had a look at all the pictures on there. What a beautiful place to visit. Where you just visiting also? I am coming to Prague in March next year for a holiday and my birthday. I wanted to go to Brno but no direct flights from UK. I will look at the all day travel by train and see Pisku/Pisek? if time allows, but definitely going to see Brno. My plan is to live in Czechia when I retire as it is a beautiful country and I am learning the language in small steps. I hope to find my Czech friend who was living in the UK but went back home. We lost touch in 2019 :( Everyone I have spoken to from Czechia has been very kind to me and all hope I find him. Thank you for sharing your visit. What an amazing little museum! český a hrdý! Děkuji
Great video. Can't believe that belt has no guard around it.
I been working in this kind of place here in sweden and the volt meter here was mad by ”A.S.E.A” and have swastika symbol betweed the letter! I think the place was built in the beginning of 1900s! I working as a carpenter, and we make a concrete mold to a new intake to the a new turbine!
I think i was klinker on the grund but wery dirty! This place look like you can eat on the ground! Look like a “mint condition”
The second place, we rebuild a new place for a new turbine and a new intake!.
Nice video and nice to se! 👍🏻
Love that you had such unfettered access to get good closeup views. Thanks for sharing this.
and the conclusion is... Nice🙂
This is an awesome video, mate. Thanks for the tour!
Seems like my comment on instagram was heard 👌
But 45kw Power is really not much for the size of the building.
Very cool video! I often visit old water-wheel grist mills (make corn meal from corn) and love seeing the the belt setups and old wooden gears.
Impressive. And I never imagined that wheel would be turning so fast.
Here in the UK, in Durham city, they turned the former site of an old watermill into a modern hydro turbine on the river Wear in the city centre, using the existing weir (yes, they're pronounced the same way!) to feed the river water into it, all to generate power for the new builds they were doing in the area, that's what they said at least, it all goes into the grid before it goes to the properties... :P
Never wood've thought wooden gears "wood" be used in industrial use
😐
Awesome to see these relics still working.
reminds me of my grandpas hydro power plant, except less dodgy. We literally have a power meter only show a tenth of the power for some magical reason
I went to the falls in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, in the early 1970's and the door had been left unlatched on an old power plant there, I think the city used it till sometime well into the 60's, really wanted to go in and check it out, but chickened out, but another door was wide open, but it was just stacked full of firebrick. I would guess it would have looked much like this plant. Last I went up there with my kids in the 90's, I'm pretty sure none of it was there anymore. Kind of wish I went home and got my camera and done a self tour.
As an hydroelectric engineer I can say this old plant is very inefficient : 75kW for such a waterflow it's very low. For example in France I have designed the electric part of an 300kW turbine with almost the same waterflow and height of drop, but in my case it was using a Kaplan turbine. Here they seems actually using Francis turbine, which is not the best choice for this type of hydroelectric plant.
It's a plant originally built in 1887, 26 years before Kaplan turbine was patented. Francis turbine was back then the most efficient one in existence. And now it's primarily a museum, whatever money they make selling power to the grid is just a nice bonus on top.
Moc pěknej prostor, byl jsem tam s ženou vloni, to měli jednu turbínu rozsypanou - právě v místě těch dřevěných převodů. Koukám, že už to opravili 👋
Wooden gears? Matthias Wandel's ears probably started itching
Using headphones, that was great audio. Thanks!
Beautiful piece of machinery!
Wouldn't it be nice to work there and maintain this old equipment?👍
Great video
Awesome place!
Now restore it! LOL
Have you considered taking slow motion takes of the spinning stuff. It might look cool.
Nice video as always
Unfortunately I only had a phone, no proper camera. The visit was completely unplanned.
I imagine you counting the turns on that motor...😂
thank you
Cool. Thx for showing us.
Very cool tour, thanks for sharing!
wow i'll definitely visit this place
wooden shaft! Cool video
Yes, very cool!
I really love it when old technology is still used. And it seems to contribute still to the energy - great stuff! I couldn't see the wooden gears in action (too fast) but the old damaged one - really impressive. What kind of wood did they use - oak? The generator seems small for 75 kW, but it may be visually deceptive...
The generator looks fine to me. I've seen 110kW motors slightly bigger than this one.
It's a quite large stationary smartphone charger :)
Nice place!
Thank you, that was awesome !
What ingenuity👌🙏👍
3:00 I think this is not good as it highlights not only the losses in the system but the damage being inflicted on the part from friction, I assume either from poor maintenance or from the bearing getting close to their replacement due date.
That's Awesome!
I personally tried the 3phase asynch motor as generator once by connecting three capacitors between the phases and it absolutely did work, i even got quite the chock off of it as i did not expect it to work and thus used the terminal block to hold the motor with one hand and a car radiator fan motor as a drive motor with the other. The whole thing first spun up to the fan motors no load speed, and then after a second or so it suddenly plummeted down to a lower rpm with a significant load on the radiator fan motor, and i was greeted with whatever hundreds of three phase volts it put out into my hand.
I've never been able to figure out how a 3 phase induction motor does the genrating bit, neither have i been able to get a explanation of how/why it works. But i assume it has to do something with residual magnetic fields in the rotor that is enough to tickle the resulting LC circuit formed by the motor windings and the capacitors into resonance that somehow builds until the voltage is up to roughly what it would be running as a motor.
As i understand it, you have to choose the right capacitance for these three caps in order to get the proper 50/60Hz line frequency though. Unless you don't need them when tied to the grid, and you just need to overspeed the motor a bit to make it generate instead of consume.
It generates power when connected to grid and driven faster than the frequency.
Hoooooly, if I brought my face as close to the machines as your camera was, I would have been wrapped around the shaft almost instantly from my long hair. Brings a new appreciation for "do not touch" warning signs
Truly amazing! Thank you very much.
First time seeing Asynchronous moter as generator, I had only studied about it.
Fascinating - Steam Punk, something out of a dream. But it works.
Very unteresting (as usual)… thanks for sharing !!
Very interesting; thanks for sharing.
Did the original generator have a different voltage? In Hungary we had 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 127, 130, 185, 210, 220, 230, 240, 250 and 260 V before standarization from the early 1900s to the 1940s. The Ganz Works made a lot of generators designed for 42 Hz. Some of them remained in service in various parts in Europe until the 1940s, maybe for later in some rare cases. According to Wikipedia, some power companies used 25 Hz in Germany, as well as in North America. It was interesting before standardization.
I guess the very first generator probably was 110 or 120V. The frequency might have been already 50Hz or maybe the old 42Hz, but I can't really find any information on it.
Pretty cool, thanks for showing. Is it open for anyone to visit, or do you have to ask for permission?
So nice...
Are those Škoda gauges?
We have their trolleybuses here in Vilnius!
Yes :)
All that just for 1 generator love the wires thickness tho
Great vid Dany 😎😎
Super neat! I deal with a lot of mechanical stuff at work and I've never seen a belt like that. Mostly V belts, the wide ones just with more v grooves. Must be designed to allow slip with that polished drive?
Very old design, used to use leather and then spliced them together with staples. width of belt determines power transfer, running on crowned pulleys, so that they will run central, and you adjust them to do that. You can even run then at angles, getting up to 90 degrees of axial alignment, and can also make them run in different directions by flipping the belt 180 degrees mid span, though you wear the belt faster, and power transfer is limited. but your belt is bought in on a roll, and you join it with a special staple set that you hammer into the ends, and use a metal rod to join the loops of the staple together.
Thanks for this bit of history Daniel. Is that the Skoda emblem in those gauges?
I do know of the proud history of Skoda before the creation of the Iron Curtain, and that
many German precision parts used in WW2 were made by them. Were they like
Tesla in manufacturing just about anything and everything?
Yes, it's Škoda. They used to make a lot of other things than just cars.
If you care to read it (source Wikipedia):
Škoda was an engineering company founded in Pilsen in 1866 by Emil Škoda. From the original armor factory, Škoda's plants have grown to the level of a large metallurgical and engineering concern. Today, the tradition of the original Škoda plants is continued by a number of independent engineering companies that bear the Škoda name in their name. At the turn of the 20th and 21st centuries, the concern ended up in bankruptcy due to the bad economic situation and was divided and sold off. Today, the tradition of the original Škoda plants is continued by a number of independent engineering companies that bear the name Škoda in their name. Probably the only direct successor can be considered the Pilsen company Škoda Transportation, which is involved in the production of trams and locomotives (it is sometimes referred to as the "main heir of Škoda Plzeň"). Its subsidiary Škoda Vagonka manufactures other rolling stock, the other subsidiary Škoda Electric manufactures trolleybuses and traction drive components, including electric motors. In the past, various related companies that still use the name Škoda are, for example, the Škoda Auto car manufacturer in Mladá Boleslav, the nuclear energy technology manufacturer Škoda JS in Pilsen, or the Doosan Škoda Power turbine and machinery manufacturer in Pilsen.
Nádhera👍🏼
Looks nice
Meters made by Skoda... delightful
Excellent
Niiiice!
How do they control and regulate the rpm/frequency?
It would appear that this museum piece is now running in reverse? It seems that the alternator has been replaced by a three phase induction motor to run most of the shafts and pulleys for visual effect. Its all too quiet to be taking its power from the water.
No, an induction motor can run as a generator operated above synchronous. It's geneating just 45kW, so not as loud as a big hydro power plant. And also from a video, you can't really tell the loudness, the camera normalizes the volume.
Which type of turbines are used? Maybe Francis Turbines? Didn't see the spindle for regulation the guidevanes of the turbines...
i Bet it lasted a hell of a long time.
Good old technology that did the job!.
Steam engines did a dam good job, Magic for it's era :-D
It is miller Peshek plant :)
Excellent.👌👍
Wooden gears are amazing
I don't know why, but I feel like if it didn't have the buzzing sound, it would be quite relaxing to watch. But it's still very interesting to see such "old fashioned" technology still in use. And why not? If the water's going to flow by anyway, why not use its energy?
That little fan cooling the bearing😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣
Must have been watching Matthias.
Niceee. Those wooden gears seem super dodgy. How do they regulate the water flow?
They're lifting and lowering gates. Not it's probably automatic.
are those meters on the wall made by skoda?
That is a cool place
Yes, it seems so ;)
Great video please do these more often
I wonder what gear wood was used and it's wear rate? Perhaps They count the revolutions to swap out gears before catastrophe?
I think it has to be a hard wood, most likely oak (maybe hickory or elm). In old mills, the wooden gears lasted for at least decades, sometimes for centuries.
There's an old saying. if it's not broke then don't fix it.
Nice :)
I would have asked if I could help them get rid of the older meters :b
Field trip
Diode gone hydro power plant
What would this power plant have served in the beginning? City street lighting or perhaps a factory?
Yes, it was powering the street lights ;)
75 kW seems small for a factory even to early 1900s standards.
@@DiodeGoneWild Thanks! :)
What happens to frequency if the water flow increases or decreases? Is there some kind of regulator?
This tiny thing can't influcence the EU mains frequency. The water flow only influences how much power is generated. And the water flow is controlled using gates.
This uses an induction (asynchronous) machine, not a synchronous one. You can spin it faster, it just increases the slip.
It would be more tricky with syncronous generators.
So how much power does a 75kW three phase motor ran as a generator produce? Efficiency?
Probably also close to 75kW. It says 93.9% efficiency on it (as a motor), but it's probably similar when used as a generator.
So they're using a mechanical brake to keep it at 50 Hz?
no, the brake isn't applied in operation. It's connected to mains (not an island), so the mains takes care of keeping it at constant speed. And they're using gates to control the water flow, this regulates how much power is generated.
Often brakes are used to avoid turbine runaway in case of a breaker trip. If the breaker trips (for example due to an overload) the generator wouldn't oppose torque and the turbine would start spinning too fast (before the gates have time to close) if no brake is applied.
Cool
It looks really nice! Have that motor been modified to work as a generator? It only says "motor" on it's nameplate. the 2nd one installed before says "motor/generator".
It doesn't need any modification. It can work as a generator despite it wasn't intended for it.
@@DiodeGoneWild I'm asking because recently I watched GreatScott's video in which he was trying to use such an induction motor as a generator, and he failed, due to the fact that despite spinning the rotor there was almost no voltage.
That's quite interesting.
ua-cam.com/video/05qJM-zZ4ng/v-deo.html
It will not work as a generator when the grid is down. But as long as the grid is operational, if you spin it faster than it'll turn when you're using it as a motor, it will start supplying energy to the grid.
You can sorta use 3 phase asynchronous motors as a generator by putting it in Y and putting capacitors (motor run) between the legs of the Y, but it will not have any form of voltage stabilisation.
Have a look at the drivebelt, you can tell what is driving what!
They are using induction motor as generator!
yes, why not :)
@@DiodeGoneWild higher the speed higher the ampere output, so the speed does NOT have to be synchronous.
everything made with metal, why the gear is wooden ?🙄very strange
hope that place is well guarded and not open for children, all that machinery open like that looks dangerous as fuck, one slip and you are toast D:
Open for all tourists, including children, and there'a a sign on the door saying "pets welcome" with a picture of dogs and cats. Yes, CATs !!!
@@DiodeGoneWild inb4 a cat gets sucked between the belt and the roller >_
wery interesting , i realy like using asinchronus motor as generator , i woud like to make my own generator by runing asinchronus motor with kondenzators but i am not sure if it wil have enought eficienci , i tried running 1,5kw motor as a generator and i got about 500W per fase so god enought i thing but i woud like to use 3kw one that i have so it woud run my home no problem
Bad plan because the asynchronous motor used as a generator will not have any stabilisation of the voltage at all.
If you really are putting effort into making one yourself, just get a proper generator that you can control the voltage of, by varying the current through the field winding.
If you just want to use it to backfeed into the grid, you can use the asynchronous motor but without the capacitors. The grid will take care of frequency and voltage stabilisation. As soon as the grid goes down, your asynchronous motor will stop working as a generator.
😎👍
Really wooden!
Bloody hell…
well, with the asynchronous 75kW it will probably be able to feed just a small, limited number of consumers and will not be connected to the EU supply-mains, right? If it runs asynchronously, at a higher speed with f>50Hz it can't be rigidly and phase-synchronously coupled to the EU control network and therefore just running in "island operation". Wooden gears, that's nice .)
No, it's not an island. It's delivering power into mains (synchronized with the whole EU). By "asynchronous" I mean the type of the motor.
@@DiodeGoneWild Yes, you're right, I mixed it up, but it's a little difficult to understand that a “lower” rotating field can be pumped up with active power by higher rotation speed ...and the frequency isn’t pulled up. ..but doesn't matter - I was just wondering
Alien technology
its a working museum? a bit dangerous for public to wander.
Yes, a working museum. Visitors have to have some common sense. And on the door, there's a sign saying "pets are welcomed" with a picture of dogs and even cats :D.