I don't agree with UA-cam hiding Dislikes, 315 Likes, 4 Dislikes, 2022-10-05. Just so you know what to expect from this Video. If you are wondering about the mechanical-looking Things in the Switchboard at 06:54, they MAY be for adjusting the Exciting Current, which allows to control the Voltage independently from the Frequency. I didn't know about that when making the Video, hence I just skipped it. I actually don't know for sure now, this is just an Option pointed out by another Viewer. Hence I say may instead of is. The Generator is excited by Magnetrons, which are powered by the Exciter Dynamo. The Exciting Current must be adjusted by a Set of Resistors somewhere, to control the Voltage generated by the Main generator independently from its RPM, and thus Frequency. If a Generator runs faster, its Voltage increases too. Reducing the Exciting Current keeps the Voltage stable. Controlling Voltage and Frequency independently is neccessary for synchronising the Generator to the Grid, hence Power Stations always have Generators instead of Dynamos, which would be much cheaper as they are excited by Permanent Magnets. Dynamos can't be synchronised though, hence they can power isolated Systems only.
I actually simplefied it quite a bit, partially to keep the Video short and partially because my Sources don't exactly match up. E.g. was there no major Rebuild in 1924 but it slowly happened roughly from 1922-1928, with 1924 being the most consistent Date and where most Work seems to have been done.
Wonderful machines! I'm impressed they can get any kind of power from only a 2 meter head, but I guess it goes to show, if you get a sufficiently monster flywheel you can torque your way to glory!
Another great video. I was an auto mechanic as a young man, taken as much by the artfulness as the function. The 'new' power station is beautiful. It makes my home look like a potato bin.
It's open more or less upon Request only though; Public Days are rare and quite hard to find out about. This was recorded on the 2022 Aargau Museum Day, where all Museums in the Canton Aargau were open. That's also the Reason for the 5 Minute Runs; there are People living above and they wouldn't have liked the Plant running all Day, hence it was agreed to run it for 5 Minutes every Hour. The other decently reliable Public Opening that is easy to research is the Swiss Mill Day. For both these special Events, you can look up a List of open Venues on the according Event Website. Lastly there's the Swiss National Holiday on August 1st, where pretty much anything in Switzerland has some special Events.
I was in witzerland recently, to make a Video about the Steam Engine on the Lake Lucerne Paddle Steamer Stadt Luzern. It's the most over-engineered Machine I ever saw, and I have to visit again mid-October to record more Footage, so that Video will take until late October or early November. I'm also working on an improved Video about the Steam Engine in Schlieren, where I will visit on November 19, so that Video will take until late November or early December. Regarding Hydropower, I recently contacted an Operator in Germany to make Videos about two Hydro Power Stations from 1923 and 1928. I haven't received an Answer yet, so I can't promise anything as of now.
As a Canadian, I’m familiar with both our old imperial system of measurement, and the metric system we now use. But I never realized that 2 M. equalled 7”. At 0 .29. The things you learn!
Typo, but I cocked up even worse in another Video by adding a 0. 10 bar seems to equal 1450 PSI. Such a Mistake would be explainable if the last Digit was a 0 and I just pressed it twice, but I really have no idea how on Earth I mnaged to slip that 0 in there. I'm fluent enough in Inch, Foot, Mile and PSI that I should have noticed that. Fahrenheit still confuses me a lot, but Kelvin rules anyway.
I just found two nice Hydro Power Stations in one Town in Germany, operated by the same Company. I'll write them soon if I can make a Video about these Plants from 1923 and 1928. If you're interested, here they are: llk.de/wasserkraftwerke/bamenohl/ llk.de/wasserkraftwerke/lenhausen/ As I haven't even written the Company yet, I can't promise anything though.
Man I'm loving your channel. From Canada here. Just something about old machinery I can't get enough of. And your quality is really up there. Do you have any old machinery of your own?
Not really; I'm a College Student so I don't have the Money and living on 11 Square Meters means I don't have the Space either. I'm a Member at the local Steam Ship though (it's owned and ran by a Club, like most Museum Ships in Germany) where I volunteer as Stoker, and I recorded last Week's Video of the Cap San Diego as Crew Member as well. My Channel isn't exclusively about old Machinery though, or I don't intend to. I'm making Videos about modern Machines too, but old ones usually are much easier. It's quite hard to record Things that are still in commercial Operation and even harder to upload that Footage to UA-cam. Permissions, you know.
If all goes well, the next Video will be the Steam Engine of the Stadt Zürich, one of the many Swiss Paddle Steamers. That Video is completed already and I'm only waiting for Approval by the Zürichsee Shipping Company. I had to ask Permission to make this Video, because all Swiss Steam Ships still operate commercially and thus the Passengers usually can't visit the Engine Rooms. Another Video that I'm currently editing is a Linotype Typesetting Machine in the Basel Paper Museum. I recorded it during the Basel Museum Night on May 20, where I wanted to record the Steam Fire Engine of the Basel Firefighting Museum as well. They didn't actually drive it but only pumped some Water, so that Video is delayed until I can record it "fully in Action". That Video would probably only show the Fire Engine though, without any Informations on how it works. Another Event will be the Flensburg Steam Fair on July 8-July 10, I'll have to see what kind of Videos I can make there. More informative Video (like this one) that I'm currently planning but can't tell when I'll upload them are the Engine Room of a 90-100 Year old Electric Locomotive, starting up a small 70 Year old Marine Diesel Engine in my old Seaman School and firing up a Steam Ship. More Ideas where I can't tell if or when I'll upload them include starting up a 60 Year old Cargo Ship (not the Cap San Diego from last Week's Video), starting up an Antonov An-2 Biplane and firing up a Steam Locomotive.
Loved the video and the amazing history. How lucky you are to have so many wonderful museums! I have two questions: 1. Why do they operate the turbine for only five minutes at a time now? 2. What are the mechanical-looking gauges at 6:54? Thanks for the great content!!
There are People living above it. usually, the Museum is open on Request only. When visiting in such a Private Tour, they can run the Plant as long as they like. But I visited on the Swiss Museum Day, where all Swiss Museums opened with Special Events. The Neighbours just didn't like the Idea of the Plant running all Day non stop, so an Agreement was made to run it every Hour for five Minutes. And I have no Idea about whatever that is in the Center Frame at 06:54. The other Gauges that you saw before/on the left are the typical Switchboard Gauges; Voltage, Current, Power, Frequency, Synchronoscope and Power Factor.
@@Genius_at_Work It appears to be a protection of some kind. If you have the high quality video and you are able to read the metal place in the left bottom it should show the set values. Than you can make out what kind of protection it is.
They look to be rheostatic controls for regulating the excitation voltage, though I could be wrong I've seen a lot of various uses for very similar looking devices.
@@pumpkinhead4449 That sounds reasonable. I wasn't too familiar with Generator Excitation when I made this Video, but since I work on a Power Barge, I probably learnt more about Electrical Engineering than I did while studying Marine Engineering over the last three Years. I did have a blatantly incompetent Teacher in Electrics though. Very sympathic, brilliant as Engineer but certainly not as Teacher. I'm actually planning to make a Video about old Generators, showing 100 Year old 300 kW Flywheel Generators in a Hydro Power Station in Germany. I recently contacted the Operator of said Power Station, and am still awaiting a Response. If that doesn't work out, I will go into a little more Detail about the Generator in the improved Re-Upload of my Sulzer Tandem-Compound Steam Engine Video, that I'm planning for November/December.
I know, it's just a bit Force of Habit, and IMHO makes for an easier Read. I capitalise correctly when writing by Hand btw; that just shows how much Force of Habit is involved.
Bit of over kill putting a 470kva generator on a 240 kw turbine with a increase gear ratio. The turbine would only drive 120 kw by the time it is geared up
That would be some shitty Gearbox. Large Gearboxes cause Power Losses of less than 5%, as Bearing Friction becomes increasingly negligible with Size. Plus keep in Mind that there's two Turbines driving one Generator, that's how the 470 kVA come from 240 kW Turbines.
@@sammyd7857 The Transfer Ratio affects RPM and Torque, but not Power. Power is Torque multiplied with RPM, so a 2:1 Gearbox doubles Torque but halves RPM. Thus the Power stays the same, assuming a Fantasy World without Friction. Friction Losses just occurr because you still need some Power to turn the Gearbox itself, due to Friction in the Bearings and at the intermeshing Cogs. So realistically, a 2:1 Gearbox halves RPM but increases Torque by 1.8-1.95 Times. Similarly, a 1:2 Gearbox doubles RPM but the Torque Factor is somewhere around 0.49 instead of the ideal 0.5.
You would think that in this age of the need for renewables, they could bring it back online. Even if Switzerland has an abundance of hydro, this seems to be wasted potential power!
They sort of do. Turbine #2 has been removed to make Way for a new Kaplan Turbine, which is more powerful than the two Jonval Turbines combined. IIRC, the Governor of Turbine #1 would also cause Issues, as it requires constant Attention. All these Flyball Governors can do automatically, is keeping RPM stable. Adjusting Load Sharing between several Generators (Droop Control) requires someone tweaking the Governor Adjustments. There are many equally old Hydro Plants still in active Service (e.g. Walchensee in Germany, Augst-Whylen in Germany and Switzerland). Most of them had the Flyball Governors replaced by modern Machinery for that Reason, the Walchenseekraftwerk is an Exception because it is a protected Monument. IIRC, there they just installed a modern automated Control to tweak the 99 Year old Governors. Plus just one Turbine of this Power Station barely makes a Difference. One of the Swiss Nuclear Plants was "boosted" by way over 1000 kW by just tuning a few minor Things at the Generator, Turbines and Condenser. Thanks to relying almost exclusively on Hydro and Nuclear Power, Switzerland probably has the most stable Electricity Prices in Europe.
@@johnsawyer2516 That's very common in Generators. 3000/3600 RPM is used for Steam and Gas Turbines only, many Diesel Generators run at 1500/1800 RPM or slower, and Water Turbines can be really slow.
@@johnsawyer2516 I suspect it is 3-phase as it mentions a delta winding. You can have more than 0ne pole pair per phase. So if you opened this up you would find 9 pole pairs rather than the three you would find on a 3000 rpm machine. Direct drive machines like you find on some hydro have a lot of pole pairs :) If the machine is short but fat rather like a disk then it usually indicates a machine with a lot of pole pairs and a slow running speed.
I don't agree with UA-cam hiding Dislikes, 315 Likes, 4 Dislikes, 2022-10-05. Just so you know what to expect from this Video.
If you are wondering about the mechanical-looking Things in the Switchboard at 06:54, they MAY be for adjusting the Exciting Current, which allows to control the Voltage independently from the Frequency. I didn't know about that when making the Video, hence I just skipped it. I actually don't know for sure now, this is just an Option pointed out by another Viewer. Hence I say may instead of is.
The Generator is excited by Magnetrons, which are powered by the Exciter Dynamo. The Exciting Current must be adjusted by a Set of Resistors somewhere, to control the Voltage generated by the Main generator independently from its RPM, and thus Frequency. If a Generator runs faster, its Voltage increases too. Reducing the Exciting Current keeps the Voltage stable. Controlling Voltage and Frequency independently is neccessary for synchronising the Generator to the Grid, hence Power Stations always have Generators instead of Dynamos, which would be much cheaper as they are excited by Permanent Magnets. Dynamos can't be synchronised though, hence they can power isolated Systems only.
Very interesting to see how this power plant was updated and evolved through the years.
I actually simplefied it quite a bit, partially to keep the Video short and partially because my Sources don't exactly match up. E.g. was there no major Rebuild in 1924 but it slowly happened roughly from 1922-1928, with 1924 being the most consistent Date and where most Work seems to have been done.
Wonderful machines! I'm impressed they can get any kind of power from only a 2 meter head, but I guess it goes to show, if you get a sufficiently monster flywheel you can torque your way to glory!
Another great video. I was an auto mechanic as a young man, taken as much by the artfulness as the function. The 'new' power station is beautiful. It makes my home look like a potato bin.
Great footage, nice machines. Oak wooden gears, amazing. Love to visit that station one day when in Europe on vacation.
It's open more or less upon Request only though; Public Days are rare and quite hard to find out about. This was recorded on the 2022 Aargau Museum Day, where all Museums in the Canton Aargau were open. That's also the Reason for the 5 Minute Runs; there are People living above and they wouldn't have liked the Plant running all Day, hence it was agreed to run it for 5 Minutes every Hour. The other decently reliable Public Opening that is easy to research is the Swiss Mill Day. For both these special Events, you can look up a List of open Venues on the according Event Website. Lastly there's the Swiss National Holiday on August 1st, where pretty much anything in Switzerland has some special Events.
Love your channel... reminds me of Harry O Lynx, RIP.
He is dead?
@@paulhorn2665 Yes, sadly. One of the greats of the old YT.
@@scowell How you know that he is dead, did you have known him?
@@paulhorn2665 I caught the announcement somewhere. I can't locate it anymore.
Great engineering work, now is a power museum and let every one have chance know the arts of engineering😊😊😊
thanks for taking the time to make a great video. keep up the good work
I was in witzerland recently, to make a Video about the Steam Engine on the Lake Lucerne Paddle Steamer Stadt Luzern. It's the most over-engineered Machine I ever saw, and I have to visit again mid-October to record more Footage, so that Video will take until late October or early November. I'm also working on an improved Video about the Steam Engine in Schlieren, where I will visit on November 19, so that Video will take until late November or early December. Regarding Hydropower, I recently contacted an Operator in Germany to make Videos about two Hydro Power Stations from 1923 and 1928. I haven't received an Answer yet, so I can't promise anything as of now.
@@Genius_at_Work I’ve always wanted to visit “witzerland”. Just where is it, since Google seems to have no information?
@@tomrogers9467 Typo again, and IMHO, Typos in Comments are much more excusable than in Videos, as Comments usually aren't double checked.
Thank you, nice tour.
Brilliant !! James.
Absolutely awesome, wish I could see it in real life
As a Canadian, I’m familiar with both our old imperial system of measurement, and the metric system we now use. But I never realized that 2 M. equalled 7”. At 0 .29. The things you learn!
Typo, but I cocked up even worse in another Video by adding a 0. 10 bar seems to equal 1450 PSI. Such a Mistake would be explainable if the last Digit was a 0 and I just pressed it twice, but I really have no idea how on Earth I mnaged to slip that 0 in there. I'm fluent enough in Inch, Foot, Mile and PSI that I should have noticed that. Fahrenheit still confuses me a lot, but Kelvin rules anyway.
Great video and explanations.
great !
good work
we need more please !
I just found two nice Hydro Power Stations in one Town in Germany, operated by the same Company. I'll write them soon if I can make a Video about these Plants from 1923 and 1928. If you're interested, here they are:
llk.de/wasserkraftwerke/bamenohl/
llk.de/wasserkraftwerke/lenhausen/
As I haven't even written the Company yet, I can't promise anything though.
@@Genius_at_Work thank you very much !!
Man I'm loving your channel. From Canada here. Just something about old machinery I can't get enough of. And your quality is really up there. Do you have any old machinery of your own?
Not really; I'm a College Student so I don't have the Money and living on 11 Square Meters means I don't have the Space either. I'm a Member at the local Steam Ship though (it's owned and ran by a Club, like most Museum Ships in Germany) where I volunteer as Stoker, and I recorded last Week's Video of the Cap San Diego as Crew Member as well.
My Channel isn't exclusively about old Machinery though, or I don't intend to. I'm making Videos about modern Machines too, but old ones usually are much easier. It's quite hard to record Things that are still in commercial Operation and even harder to upload that Footage to UA-cam. Permissions, you know.
@@Genius_at_Work i understand, still the content i find educational on older equipment. what arte your future plans with the channel?
If all goes well, the next Video will be the Steam Engine of the Stadt Zürich, one of the many Swiss Paddle Steamers. That Video is completed already and I'm only waiting for Approval by the Zürichsee Shipping Company. I had to ask Permission to make this Video, because all Swiss Steam Ships still operate commercially and thus the Passengers usually can't visit the Engine Rooms.
Another Video that I'm currently editing is a Linotype Typesetting Machine in the Basel Paper Museum. I recorded it during the Basel Museum Night on May 20, where I wanted to record the Steam Fire Engine of the Basel Firefighting Museum as well. They didn't actually drive it but only pumped some Water, so that Video is delayed until I can record it "fully in Action". That Video would probably only show the Fire Engine though, without any Informations on how it works. Another Event will be the Flensburg Steam Fair on July 8-July 10, I'll have to see what kind of Videos I can make there.
More informative Video (like this one) that I'm currently planning but can't tell when I'll upload them are the Engine Room of a 90-100 Year old Electric Locomotive, starting up a small 70 Year old Marine Diesel Engine in my old Seaman School and firing up a Steam Ship. More Ideas where I can't tell if or when I'll upload them include starting up a 60 Year old Cargo Ship (not the Cap San Diego from last Week's Video), starting up an Antonov An-2 Biplane and firing up a Steam Locomotive.
Loved the video and the amazing history. How lucky you are to have so many wonderful museums! I have two questions:
1. Why do they operate the turbine for only five minutes at a time now?
2. What are the mechanical-looking gauges at 6:54?
Thanks for the great content!!
There are People living above it. usually, the Museum is open on Request only. When visiting in such a Private Tour, they can run the Plant as long as they like. But I visited on the Swiss Museum Day, where all Swiss Museums opened with Special Events. The Neighbours just didn't like the Idea of the Plant running all Day non stop, so an Agreement was made to run it every Hour for five Minutes. And I have no Idea about whatever that is in the Center Frame at 06:54. The other Gauges that you saw before/on the left are the typical Switchboard Gauges; Voltage, Current, Power, Frequency, Synchronoscope and Power Factor.
@@Genius_at_Work It appears to be a protection of some kind. If you have the high quality video and you are able to read the metal place in the left bottom it should show the set values. Than you can make out what kind of protection it is.
They look to be rheostatic controls for regulating the excitation voltage, though I could be wrong I've seen a lot of various uses for very similar looking devices.
@@pumpkinhead4449 That sounds reasonable. I wasn't too familiar with Generator Excitation when I made this Video, but since I work on a Power Barge, I probably learnt more about Electrical Engineering than I did while studying Marine Engineering over the last three Years. I did have a blatantly incompetent Teacher in Electrics though. Very sympathic, brilliant as Engineer but certainly not as Teacher.
I'm actually planning to make a Video about old Generators, showing 100 Year old 300 kW Flywheel Generators in a Hydro Power Station in Germany. I recently contacted the Operator of said Power Station, and am still awaiting a Response. If that doesn't work out, I will go into a little more Detail about the Generator in the improved Re-Upload of my Sulzer Tandem-Compound Steam Engine Video, that I'm planning for November/December.
@5:39 - Are these Babbitt-style bearings I wonder.
So renewable energy has been used in the 18th and 20th centuries too apparently.
is this power plant still in use? I mean I'm sure it isn't sense it's decommissioned but could it still generate power?
It still generates but I'm pretty sure that it can't be connected to the Transmission Grid anymore. Plus the Governor doesn't work all that well.
Thanks for showing this interesting power station.
By the way, English-speakers do not capitalize common nouns.
I know, it's just a bit Force of Habit, and IMHO makes for an easier Read. I capitalise correctly when writing by Hand btw; that just shows how much Force of Habit is involved.
Humans used to create such wonders. Now??
Bit of over kill putting a 470kva generator on a 240 kw turbine with a increase gear ratio. The turbine would only drive 120 kw by the time it is geared up
That would be some shitty Gearbox. Large Gearboxes cause Power Losses of less than 5%, as Bearing Friction becomes increasingly negligible with Size. Plus keep in Mind that there's two Turbines driving one Generator, that's how the 470 kVA come from 240 kW Turbines.
@@Genius_at_Work what have friction losses got to do with power transfer ratio
@@sammyd7857 The Transfer Ratio affects RPM and Torque, but not Power. Power is Torque multiplied with RPM, so a 2:1 Gearbox doubles Torque but halves RPM. Thus the Power stays the same, assuming a Fantasy World without Friction. Friction Losses just occurr because you still need some Power to turn the Gearbox itself, due to Friction in the Bearings and at the intermeshing Cogs. So realistically, a 2:1 Gearbox halves RPM but increases Torque by 1.8-1.95 Times. Similarly, a 1:2 Gearbox doubles RPM but the Torque Factor is somewhere around 0.49 instead of the ideal 0.5.
@@Genius_at_Work it seems to me that torque and power are synonymous. So it would reduce output power.
@@sammyd7857 Torque isn't Power. Think of 1000 Nm at 100 RPM vs. 1000 Nm at 1000 RPM. Now guess which has more kW behind it.
You would think that in this age of the need for renewables, they could bring it back online. Even if Switzerland has an abundance of hydro, this seems to be wasted potential power!
They sort of do. Turbine #2 has been removed to make Way for a new Kaplan Turbine, which is more powerful than the two Jonval Turbines combined. IIRC, the Governor of Turbine #1 would also cause Issues, as it requires constant Attention. All these Flyball Governors can do automatically, is keeping RPM stable. Adjusting Load Sharing between several Generators (Droop Control) requires someone tweaking the Governor Adjustments. There are many equally old Hydro Plants still in active Service (e.g. Walchensee in Germany, Augst-Whylen in Germany and Switzerland). Most of them had the Flyball Governors replaced by modern Machinery for that Reason, the Walchenseekraftwerk is an Exception because it is a protected Monument. IIRC, there they just installed a modern automated Control to tweak the 99 Year old Governors.
Plus just one Turbine of this Power Station barely makes a Difference. One of the Swiss Nuclear Plants was "boosted" by way over 1000 kW by just tuning a few minor Things at the Generator, Turbines and Condenser. Thanks to relying almost exclusively on Hydro and Nuclear Power, Switzerland probably has the most stable Electricity Prices in Europe.
Am I mistaken thinking 1000 rpm is not 50 Hz 3000 rpm is correct
If your Generator has one Field. Two Fields equals 1500 RPM, three 1000, four 750 etc...
@@Genius_at_Work Thank you for the information. I didn’t realise all three fields were in phase. I assumed it was like our three phase system.
@@johnsawyer2516 That's very common in Generators. 3000/3600 RPM is used for Steam and Gas Turbines only, many Diesel Generators run at 1500/1800 RPM or slower, and Water Turbines can be really slow.
@@johnsawyer2516 I suspect it is 3-phase as it mentions a delta winding. You can have more than 0ne pole pair per phase. So if you opened this up you would find 9 pole pairs rather than the three you would find on a 3000 rpm machine. Direct drive machines like you find on some hydro have a lot of pole pairs :) If the machine is short but fat rather like a disk then it usually indicates a machine with a lot of pole pairs and a slow running speed.
@@markgohl2660 Thank you for your explanation. Take care stay safe.