LIVE SERVICE GAMES SHOULD REMAIN PLAYABLE AFTER SUPPORT ENDS. There is no excuse for companies to destroy your product. There are solutions, like releasing the server software so you can keep the game going in your bedroom.
This would truly be awesome for a game like helldivers 2, hopefully it can become a reality. Like Garbaj said though, I am at least going to enjoy it while its lasts as that is the current model of the game and could take a very large amount of R&D to make it feasible to run on consumer hardware.
Okay, I do agree with you, however giving out the server code is like asking for your game to be full of hackers and cheaters. Switching to P2P networking might solve this issue but it'll bring out a whole other range of issues.
@@WolfpackOneI'd view it as a "OK, we're no longer supporting the game, here's the server code, do what you want". It's perfectly reasonable for them to keep the server code to themselves until they shut their own servers down.
@@bitcoinweasel9274 Yeah, but a lot of companies reuse old base code to cut costs and make development easier(Which is why for example you'd see bugs from FS2004 in MSFS2020, and many other games). If they hand out the code, it'll also have an impact on their future projects as well.
@@WolfpackOne i said software not the whole code. Hell, even instructions on how to get a server software back up and running would be enough. WE NEED game preservation Besides i said AFTER SUPPORT ENDS nowhere did i mention "while the game is still running" way to take my comment and twist it into your own narrative. Utter brainrot
For the "Terminate Illegal Broadcast" objective, you can just throw an Eagle Clusterbomb or any decent explosive at the tower and it will complete the objective instantly (aka just destroy the tower)
I absolutely love the fact that you did this little chill video explaining your newly chilled out opinions. I went through something similar as a dev and it's often a bit sad to see people focus so much on negative things in the game industry. Keep it up ^^
Surely other companies take notice of the persisting season pass model. It’s absurd that gamers are so willing to pay for something so transient and predatory.
While the game itself isn't interesting to me, I found something very interesting about Helldivers, the game is made on Autodesk Stingray engine lol. I tried the engine a long time ago but couldn't really figure out stuff. Nor I know what can it achieve. But turns out it's pretty capable of shipping a game. Although Stingray is already dead for a while. Upon learning about the game, I found out there are more games built with Stingray engine, like some warhammer games. Sure fun gameplay is more on the game design & theory, not related to the game engine. But I just thought this game engine fact is funny and sometimes I'm more curious on the technology despite not really interested with the game.
Dang, Stingray Engine still alive, it was an ancient engine back from who knows 2015ish, and nobody cares about that engine, even though the project was announced back when everyone exclusively use Maya & Max i thought they already chop down the whole project
calling a game engine from 2015 ancient is hilarious, no bad vibes ment, just think its funny when cod technically runs on the base of the original quake engine iirc.@@jensenraylight8011
@@jensenraylight8011Yea the editor got that Autodesk software vibe. It has good integration with Maya. As per its Wikipedia page (BItsquid engine, former name), it was eventually became a plugin for 3Ds Max for interactive toolkit in 2017. But even then, this was discontinued in 2022.
@@steviejoe66 i bet it must be hard developing a game with Minimal documentation, not maintained, and was not used by a lot of people. not to mention, getting Stingray to match modern game graphic was no laughing matter either The advantage of using popular engine is that it's easier to find a solution when you stuck or get a bug.
I hope they don't think doing more of this is what people want. People want something new and different. We're tired of all the ultra serious and often depressing war games. This one is refreshing for its light-hearted fun. But if every game was like that we'd probably be attracted to something more serious.
Just so you know, it's not a casual game. I got baited by it being a co-op PvE game where you could blow things up with your friends. And if you wanna play with randoms, you *need* communication. And also be aware that it has one of the most toxic communities.
@@NorthEevee while I agree that communication is needed (on higher difficulties), I have been playing since release day and have yet to encounter any toxicity in my 250+ hours. It is a casual co-op PVE game to have fun blowing up things with your friends but once you get to the 5/6+ difficulty missions you actually have to try. Playing with randoms so far is on par with joining random missions on DRG, which is saying something.
I love this informal format. I stumbled on your channel today and the genuine, humble perspective really connected with me. Scripted, edited, lengthy productions are cool and all, but this seems very…YOU, and I imagine that’s healthier and more sustainable. ❤
I do have some thoughts. They are simple, but true. I think a lot of games, especially bigs ones that release, are not taking co-op into consideration. Not as in "the game should be built around co-op", but simply that a lot of games that have come out in the last 4-5 years are great, but they would be even better if you could play them with friends. A lot of games could benefit from just letting you play said game with your friends. The developers and studios talk about having to balance a game and not wanting to spend the resources on that when they'd rather focus on balancing the game as a whole, despite it being a PvE or just a regular single-player game. Cities Skylines is a great example. It has a multiplayer mod and it works for the most part until your city gets to be big enough that it can't sync anymore. But the fact they didn't include multiplayer in Cities: Skylines 2? It's crazy. Sometimes I don't want to shoot at enemies with my friends. Sometimes we really just want to build a city together and tackle environmental issues together. Games like Subnautica. It is mind-boggling why they wouldn't put at least some modicum of effort into the possible multiplayer aspect.
the biggest case study is fallout 76, people have been asking for multiplayer, but not an mmo genshin impact is multiplayer and there is no pvp, just friends helping eachother, another good example is the souls games, that is why they made coop easier and pvp harder in elden ring, some players liked the ablity to play with friends but not being invaded
Eh, not really. There are loads of games in development at all times at various stages of completeness. You don't need to start development of a brand new game from scratch to learn from popular releases. I imagine there are at least a dozen in development third person shooters whose dev teams have taken note of Helldivers 2 and are probably changing some of their mechanics to be more in line with it due to its success.
I'm glad that we are getting banger games like Baldur's Gate 3, Palworld, Helldivers 2 and Lethal Company within a short span of each other, as well as failures as Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League, so that management gets the message and promotes games that people will actually enjoy, are made with pure passion and have a clear goal of players first, profits second. Money and people will come when a game is worthy of their time.
There always have been and will be hugely successful non-AAA games. There always have been and will be hugely unsuccessful AAA games. it matters little when my yearly gaming folder consists of maybe 2-4 AAA games of that year, the rest being either older AAA games or older AA games with some indie mixed in. Not to brag or anything but i consistently have a better time playing games and enjoying them. I avoid most games that i don't think i'll enjoy that much, which while means i might miss out on some i would enjoy, it also means i spend less on games and have consistently less negative experiences. This same goes for me not playing multiplayer games, not having to deal with people's BS and such.
@@zk0rned The update was well received though. Not sure what you're talking about. It just balanced op weapons so that players would use other weapons too, instead of just using the Breaker for everything.
@@zk0rnedNo they are jaded in about every single bad way they can foster. A measley small balance update causes this much uproar is showing most Helldivers players that theres a really loud minoirty and a really quiet majority who enjoy and adapted to changes.
The entire video's message in a single sentence: "Enjoy the game you like while you can and until a more fun game using the same formula comes out eventually."
its been kinda hard to enjoy games other than helldivers 2 after reexperiencing the balance and general good-feelness of helldivers being brought to 3rd person coop (and first-person!) shooter
This is one of the few games thats really brought back fun into games. My only wish is that people wouldn't hot-mic the entire time, Id love to see PTT be the default, although I understand it might be hard for console gamers though. And it would be a shame to alienate them if PTT isnt something that can be as easily implemented with limited controller input. But maybe a mic threshold. would be nice?
A game i really recommend is GTFO, me and my friends just started playing it and love it. Its a challenging horror sc-fi co-op that has some pretty cool game mechanics
I agree that we should be more positive when a good game comes out, not every has oportunity to make a game like Helldivers 2, but this felt like 2 minutes of a video said in a slower, more unguided way. Maybe having a skeleton of a script, with points along a path would help with this style of a video
Is using a good example in service of criticizing something bad considered "negativity" now? I fear for this generation, and I'm in my early 20's for god's sake
Do you still make PS2 models or even PS2 games because if so I would love to see a video of how you would make a PS2 game! With unreal engine or some sort of free 3D model game making software! I want to make a PS2 game really badly!
It is certainly exhausting whenever an actually good game comes out and then people take that opportunity to still be negative about the games/companies that aren't good.
I think the truest problem is not that AAA companies need to "Take Notes", because they always do, and it always sucks... Here is the pattern, a good game comes out, companies take their notes on what the game did right, and then we get so many games that copy what that game "did right" until we get utterly sick of it...there may be a lot of games like Helldivers 2 in the future, and they could be fun, or they could become more and more of a slog...what we want are new and fresh ideas entering the industry, and the only note that AAA companies should take is to quit playing it so safe. I think it's fair to say that the best games that come out are the ones that improve on formulas, give new twists to old formulas, and give us an experience we have not experienced before. If AAA companies took notes on games like Helldivers, Lethal Company, or even something like Battlebit, then we would, (and probably will be getting), shitter and shitter copies of those games; and that is simply because they will not take notes in the right way. They will focus on copying the games formula to have a "guaranteed" success, instead of focusing on what the original game offered to an industry that was lacking it.
This has made me think now todd Howard hasn't made elder scrolls 6 because he needed technology to progress to give people a complete different experience then skyrim.
This game was only a few months into development when DRG came out. Though frankly, this game has alot more to do with helldivers 1 then anything, as it is a sequel... and is copying the elements from the top down game into a 3d format. I'm psure now that helldivers 2 is out they made helldivers 1 super cheap, and they've stated they're not shutting it down anytime soon.
@@designdiario4324 As someone who has played both games, i truly have to agree, if you want to see the future of helldivers two, look to helldivers one, as it was supported quite well over these long nine years, and has plenty of content still not added to two, the mechs, tanks and APCs for one. It'll be a long while until we get original items added unto helldivers two in my opinion, as the wellspring of well thought-out and balanced helldivers one items is not yet dried.
While H2 will likely influence some future games, I am not holding my breath that it will improve the AAA industry in any way whatsoever. Those dumbf***s have been for years now looking at the repeatedly succeeding quality single player games and repeatedly utterly failing creatively bankrupt live services and are like "yea we're gonna double down on the s***ty low effort live services, because they are the future". H2 is a live service, yes, but it is one done well, and this little tidbit will fly completely over their heads. All they see is a successful live service and they don't care why it is so. It came out with a decent amount of content (that feels like a complete experience) and it does not nickle and dime you on every turn, locking a third of the stratagems behind a preorder of the $120 Bad-At-Financial-Decisions Edition and another third behind microtransactions valued at the price point of individual AA games. If H2 was made by a typical AAA publisher, it would have been a pay to win dumpster fire released in early access at $70 Barebones Edition being the lowest entry point, with half its intended features missing and a roadmap promising that they will maybe actually finish making the game in 2 years time - but only if it manages to sell 8 million copies in the first month. Oh, and absolutely forget about the free Helldivers Mobilise warbond. That would be a paid battlepass on top of the inflated price you already paid for the game.
i think it's worth mentioning that critically analyzing games (and any media for that matter) can be fun, but typically the way gamers do critical analysis is often shallow and with the extrinsic motivation of, like you say, proselytizing and finger wagging. and this style of criticism is just a good way to make oneself miserable. however, analyzing a game as a means to engage with the property on a deeper level is entirely compatible with fun and, for me at least, often increases it. kind of like how people in a book club talk about books, talking about games in terms of the ways their mechanics work and how they relate to the themes of the game or whatever can be really engaging. of course, if that's not your thing then it won't be fun to do it, but i wanted to express the difference between the cynical "why doesn't he game industry get its act together and make games like this?" vs just engaging with the game for its own sake.
@Garbaj you were repeating the same point at least 4 times in different words. and also had the gameplay run after you finished and got completely silence, at least have like ending music or game sounds.
You seriously don't know WTF you're talking about in this video just like you said Though appreciate for being regular, You could make Godot tutorial if you have free time, I really loved how you explained game development topics in your previous video.
I agree with the sentiment to enjoy games and letting that speak to developers, but I disagree that the dissecting or discussions/lectures are unproductive. You bring a good point that developers are probably taking notes and that change will take a while to show in the industry but I still think content like that which disecting game desigm are very valuable. They can highlight core aspects of a game and allow for not only devs, but players to become aware of those aspects too. Having a portion of the gaming sphere more literate in game design and analyzing games more (I feel) leads to better feedback givers, future devs, and just overall makes people better analyzers of games. I think people should enjoy Helldivers and that will largely make its effect on game devs, but explicitly dissecting it too can help make these concepts more fleshed out and can make good discourse.
Yeah, specially when he said: "My opinion is the only valid one, this is a highly researched video, I have had 40 years of experience making and shipping successful games and if you don't believe me, go play them"
@@sechmascmyeah, he really fell off. Specially when he kidnaped my family and also that one time he almost exploded the Pentagon with bombs strapped to him. I was really dissapointed
I like your content. But this experiment's result is poorer than your usual content. You kinda rambled all over the place and repeated yourself a lot. I just wanted to give you some honest feedback. Glad you are enjoying Helldivers 2.
what are the lessons that helldivers teaches? i only saw, that everyone and a rock is talking about it, but everything i saw from it (including this video) doesn't look really engaging or different. to anyone who has the time, what am i missing?
The gameplay is fairly simple, it isn't a groundbreaking game in this sense. What lessons people are trying to teach from it is the element of live-service as a game. The game has earnable (found in-game) micro-currency that sells at a very fair rate and doesn't make you buy more than you need. You dont need to pay more than the price of the game, which is also very fair at 40 dollars. The warbonds (battle pass) are fun to unlock, not a limited time, and doesn't offer ANY true pay-to-win goods on the premium pass. The live service operates as a huge war-sim with events semi-organically being made from the direction of the war-effort and such. This makes for interesting shared story-making between the devs and players, rather than using basic seasonal event cosmetics to get players to come back. I hope this illustrated the difference between Helldivers 2 and any other live-service shooter out right now. As a paid experience, it is extremely fair to both your wallet and time.
Your idea of the game being copied in 3 years might not be true. If a game has been searching for a loop and have a good looking or "feeling" game they could easily switch over in under a year. Look at the battle royale formula how it was copied so quickly
This video kinda makes me sad, what you're saying that we should have fun while playing a game, that it's absolutely correct, but the problem it's that you shouldn't be telling this to your audience, it should be a base of any game, sure some might like RTS more than FPS, if you know you don't like a genre of games don't play them, but when you play a game you're doing it for 1 reason: TO HAVE FUN, that the most important part, everything else comes after. Industries have ruined games so much that now "having fun" almost start to sound like a meme, I can't allow this to happen.
I just want to say that saying that you dont know what will happen to games, and how the industry will evolve into is not true. If you are not in the industry, yes then that is true, you dont know it, but if you are in a big 3A game studio, then you are working on 'the things of the future'. Just like GTA developers know what they are making for the future.
What's this even about? People are playing the game. There's over half a million concurrent players fresh out of launch Why do some people get so triggered by people forming criticism? No one would be singing the praises for HD2 if no one was playing the game
I don't know if that was your message here, but I'm getting tired of constant "finger-wagging" at developers. "Oh, %developer team X% better take notes, the lazy bastards!", "Oh no, modern gaming is dead, mediocre uninspired buggy slop the west has fallen" or the classic "Nintendo hire this man" circlejerk. The ignorance coupled with sheer self-confidence is disgusting, and it's being fed by "content creators" who love to act as experts with absolute authority. You, Garbaj, are at least into gamedev and can understand some nuance. But some particular characters on youtube? Just pure clowns thinking they're so deep and insightful, classic "idea guys" so high on their own farts.
This is where I believe that you're wrong. Just like with everything else, games also have a history. If we are to take a peek into that history, you will see that they solely relied on what current day hardware can put out. This means that the future will solely rely on software manipulation and conjunctional hardware networking. Unreal Engine's Nanite proves that manipulating just a little bit more to show a little bit less can have a huge impact for the developers and players. When it comes to the aspects of market production, it just boils down to what people will play. If the majority of people choose an unoriginal, uninspiring, high fidelity game, then more of those games- such as COD, will be produced. The market can easily be manipulated since it is and has always been artificial.
I dont really want any publisher to do "more of that". Helldivers 2 seems fun, but the industry we got today feels alot like copy and paste. The game has its own unique characteristics, and thats cool, but i dont want a cheep copy of that
Not really in 3-5 years. Some games are already in production, some people could have similar idea. Some will change their games a bit. Most costly in game now is, lets say, aesthetic. All kinds of models, effects etc. The programming part is much smaller compared to liek decade ago. So we can see similarities in games in year from now at most. PS. Sole reason I won't play this game is anticheat. It was designed to protect microtransaction shop. And it is co-op game, so why anticheat in first place?
i like how Minimaps dissapeared from a couple modern game, tbh good riddance. once you get rid of minimaps, you're exist in the world. every buildings and shop is properly labeled just like real world. and i don't see the point of minimaps anymore. it just didn't make sense having a Hyperrealistics graphics, but you only see the tiny pixels of Minimaps all the time, and ignoring the rest of the view. and getting lost in the game is not bad either, this is the part of the fun you might as well play with only minimaps. i think this "no map" idea came from a UA-camr from if i remember correctly 5 years ago, but it was finally being implemented in the game.
wasnt cheating a problem because one player cheating would affect other players who werent trying to break the game ? i guess they couldd make the anticheating optional with a matchmaker like some steam games have VAC servers and servers without VAC and the player can choose
@@jensenraylight8011 games didnt use to have minimaps before, like DOOM had it and it was missing on most other shooters inspired by doom, most nintendo games didnt have minimap, skirym has a compass but no minimap (you used clairvoiance to find the way) i think it only became a prominent feature when everything became an rpg after the success of wow
same, i'm very very Tired of people trying to be the Gordon Ramsay of Gamings. those Haters tend to punish any game that was trying to change stuff, they didn't like change. they always compared the any game with their favorite game. i saw this a lot, Most people only played COD, Battlefield or Fortnite, and expect all game to behave like that, Keep running and shooting like a madman, The world is just a background noise to them. which is why Modern game almost become Monoculture, where no diversity can exists. we really need to learn to play the game as it is, let the game stand on its own, and not compare it to the other game. because Most of the time, once you knee deep into the game system, you will actualy appreciate the Reason behind those decisions, it make sense, and it was actually the thing what makes the game fun. PS5 era game gave me hope, finally the graphics is close to real life, it's very immersive to the point that my brain believe that it was real, all of the Adventure in the world become real, and i really see some devs was trying to make Modern game Right again. Haters want game to be samey, it's like a parasite that infect the game industry, There are a lot of Great game get their rating tanked, and people avoid the game, because some COD Bros was trash talking it everywhere on the internet.
"This video will be unscripted" *Proceeds to make up words* In a more serious tone, I think you gave great advice. But also the "repeteadly pay for the same thing" feeling is what prevents people from truly enjoying stuff. Games come out rushed and unfinished, filled with bugs, which sets of the hype train of shitting on the studio/devs/game, which in turn drives (generally speaking) people away from the game, which is a terrible thing for a live service. No people, no service. And then the game shuts down and you paid 40 to 60 dollars for a "potential period of fun" rather than something you own. I understand is not the best example, as we also pay again for a tv or a kitchen appliance. But the feeling that gives is different. Generally speaking you buy a toaster, and it will toast your bread. The end. You USUALLY get what you paid for, and generally speaking if you maintain it maybe it lasts 2 or 3 to 5 years before it needs replacement. Or maybe more. In the case of these games, you have to first have a good game that is fun and people like, then you have to have devs/studios with balls like Palworld or Larian Studios. Then you need for all the variables to (usually) be positive so the game doesn't shut down fast. If you told me you'll be playing helldivers 2 for the next 4 or 5 years, then sure. No problem. Having thousands of hours of fun in the span of 5 years for 60 bucks sounds reasonable. But we know that isn't reality. Hopefully the game does great, but I feel in 6 months from now or maybe a year, it'll be "dead".
i like that, as long as failing isnt a waste of time, not always finishing the mission can be fun, like darktide on launch was fun even when losing, the problem is returning to the base and having nothing of worth to unlock to keep you trying again and the story being too boring to make you want to see what happens next, left 4 dead is still the gold standard because the game didnt have anything to unlock but the enviromentaal story telling and the character writing was amazing
LIVE SERVICE GAMES SHOULD REMAIN PLAYABLE AFTER SUPPORT ENDS. There is no excuse for companies to destroy your product. There are solutions, like releasing the server software so you can keep the game going in your bedroom.
This would truly be awesome for a game like helldivers 2, hopefully it can become a reality. Like Garbaj said though, I am at least going to enjoy it while its lasts as that is the current model of the game and could take a very large amount of R&D to make it feasible to run on consumer hardware.
Okay, I do agree with you, however giving out the server code is like asking for your game to be full of hackers and cheaters. Switching to P2P networking might solve this issue but it'll bring out a whole other range of issues.
@@WolfpackOneI'd view it as a "OK, we're no longer supporting the game, here's the server code, do what you want". It's perfectly reasonable for them to keep the server code to themselves until they shut their own servers down.
@@bitcoinweasel9274 Yeah, but a lot of companies reuse old base code to cut costs and make development easier(Which is why for example you'd see bugs from FS2004 in MSFS2020, and many other games). If they hand out the code, it'll also have an impact on their future projects as well.
@@WolfpackOne i said software not the whole code. Hell, even instructions on how to get a server software back up and running would be enough. WE NEED game preservation
Besides i said AFTER SUPPORT ENDS nowhere did i mention "while the game is still running" way to take my comment and twist it into your own narrative. Utter brainrot
Deep Rock Galactic looks so different now
ROCK AND STONE FOREVER!!!!
FOR ROCK AND STONE!!!
And Deep Rock was weird looking Left 4 Dead
ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE!
Fun fact: the game was made on a deceased Autodesk Stingray engine previously called Bitsquid.
lol "deceased", maybe as a commercial product
I agree. Games should turn up the silly dial a few notches and we should just enjoy them!
For the "Terminate Illegal Broadcast" objective, you can just throw an Eagle Clusterbomb or any decent explosive at the tower and it will complete the objective instantly (aka just destroy the tower)
I use impact grenades for those
@@DarrenExplorz Just bring an autocannon
@@kawag2780 Heck yeah it's one shot from hundred of meters
@@kawag2780 this is the s tier answer.
Nah 500kg bomb better
I absolutely love the fact that you did this little chill video explaining your newly chilled out opinions. I went through something similar as a dev and it's often a bit sad to see people focus so much on negative things in the game industry. Keep it up ^^
Surely other companies take notice of the persisting season pass model. It’s absurd that gamers are so willing to pay for something so transient and predatory.
2 videos in a month, what kind of sorcery is this!!!
And now he's also a trans...
He really fell off
bro played helldivers and ascended to buddhahood
Common Helldivers W
Having fun in a game, what a concept.
"Publishers learning their lesson."
X to doubt.
While the game itself isn't interesting to me, I found something very interesting about Helldivers, the game is made on Autodesk Stingray engine lol. I tried the engine a long time ago but couldn't really figure out stuff. Nor I know what can it achieve.
But turns out it's pretty capable of shipping a game. Although Stingray is already dead for a while. Upon learning about the game, I found out there are more games built with Stingray engine, like some warhammer games.
Sure fun gameplay is more on the game design & theory, not related to the game engine. But I just thought this game engine fact is funny and sometimes I'm more curious on the technology despite not really interested with the game.
Dang, Stingray Engine still alive, it was an ancient engine back from who knows 2015ish,
and nobody cares about that engine, even though the project was announced back when everyone exclusively use Maya & Max
i thought they already chop down the whole project
@@jensenraylight8011 I believe the engine is depreciated but the devs are using it anyways, lol.
calling a game engine from 2015 ancient is hilarious, no bad vibes ment, just think its funny when cod technically runs on the base of the original quake engine iirc.@@jensenraylight8011
@@jensenraylight8011Yea the editor got that Autodesk software vibe. It has good integration with Maya.
As per its Wikipedia page (BItsquid engine, former name), it was eventually became a plugin for 3Ds Max for interactive toolkit in 2017. But even then, this was discontinued in 2022.
@@steviejoe66 i bet it must be hard developing a game with Minimal documentation, not maintained, and was not used by a lot of people.
not to mention, getting Stingray to match modern game graphic was no laughing matter either
The advantage of using popular engine is that it's easier to find a solution when you stuck or get a bug.
I hope they don't think doing more of this is what people want. People want something new and different. We're tired of all the ultra serious and often depressing war games. This one is refreshing for its light-hearted fun. But if every game was like that we'd probably be attracted to something more serious.
Sadly it doesnt have a reasonable price localization. Way too expensive in Brazil
Let's hope it will AT LEAST get a -50% discount during seasonal sales.
The price is way too high, i'm sorry.
Looks like a fun game
It is :D
Just so you know, it's not a casual game. I got baited by it being a co-op PvE game where you could blow things up with your friends. And if you wanna play with randoms, you *need* communication. And also be aware that it has one of the most toxic communities.
@@NorthEevee while I agree that communication is needed (on higher difficulties), I have been playing since release day and have yet to encounter any toxicity in my 250+ hours. It is a casual co-op PVE game to have fun blowing up things with your friends but once you get to the 5/6+ difficulty missions you actually have to try. Playing with randoms so far is on par with joining random missions on DRG, which is saying something.
I love this informal format. I stumbled on your channel today and the genuine, humble perspective really connected with me.
Scripted, edited, lengthy productions are cool and all, but this seems very…YOU, and I imagine that’s healthier and more sustainable. ❤
I do have some thoughts. They are simple, but true. I think a lot of games, especially bigs ones that release, are not taking co-op into consideration. Not as in "the game should be built around co-op", but simply that a lot of games that have come out in the last 4-5 years are great, but they would be even better if you could play them with friends. A lot of games could benefit from just letting you play said game with your friends.
The developers and studios talk about having to balance a game and not wanting to spend the resources on that when they'd rather focus on balancing the game as a whole, despite it being a PvE or just a regular single-player game. Cities Skylines is a great example.
It has a multiplayer mod and it works for the most part until your city gets to be big enough that it can't sync anymore. But the fact they didn't include multiplayer in Cities: Skylines 2? It's crazy. Sometimes I don't want to shoot at enemies with my friends. Sometimes we really just want to build a city together and tackle environmental issues together.
Games like Subnautica. It is mind-boggling why they wouldn't put at least some modicum of effort into the possible multiplayer aspect.
the biggest case study is fallout 76, people have been asking for multiplayer, but not an mmo
genshin impact is multiplayer and there is no pvp, just friends helping eachother, another good example is the souls games, that is why they made coop easier and pvp harder in elden ring, some players liked the ablity to play with friends but not being invaded
Well Subnautica 2 is going to have multiplayer, so it looks like the devs agree with you!
Eh, not really. There are loads of games in development at all times at various stages of completeness. You don't need to start development of a brand new game from scratch to learn from popular releases. I imagine there are at least a dozen in development third person shooters whose dev teams have taken note of Helldivers 2 and are probably changing some of their mechanics to be more in line with it due to its success.
I'm glad that we are getting banger games like Baldur's Gate 3, Palworld, Helldivers 2 and Lethal Company within a short span of each other, as well as failures as Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League, so that management gets the message and promotes games that people will actually enjoy, are made with pure passion and have a clear goal of players first, profits second. Money and people will come when a game is worthy of their time.
Honestly I like this style of vid- it's fairly nostalgic, kind of like a Let's Play.
you uploaded!
There always have been and will be hugely successful non-AAA games.
There always have been and will be hugely unsuccessful AAA games.
it matters little when my yearly gaming folder consists of maybe 2-4 AAA games of that year, the rest being either older AAA games or older AA games with some indie mixed in.
Not to brag or anything but i consistently have a better time playing games and enjoying them. I avoid most games that i don't think i'll enjoy that much, which while means i might miss out on some i would enjoy, it also means i spend less on games and have consistently less negative experiences.
This same goes for me not playing multiplayer games, not having to deal with people's BS and such.
This video is hilariously timed with the new "balance" update
Overblown rage by a bunch of jaded terminally online gamers.
@@nathanmitchell7961 -100k players in 2 days lol. keep coping.
@@nathanmitchell7961 Everyone is jaded dude and for good reason
@@zk0rned The update was well received though. Not sure what you're talking about. It just balanced op weapons so that players would use other weapons too, instead of just using the Breaker for everything.
@@zk0rnedNo they are jaded in about every single bad way they can foster. A measley small balance update causes this much uproar is showing most Helldivers players that theres a really loud minoirty and a really quiet majority who enjoy and adapted to changes.
0:11 except me. Never heard of it.
Me too lol
The entire video's message in a single sentence:
"Enjoy the game you like while you can and until a more fun game using the same formula comes out eventually."
its been kinda hard to enjoy games other than helldivers 2 after reexperiencing the balance and general good-feelness of helldivers being brought to 3rd person coop (and first-person!) shooter
The most respectable thing anyone can say is that they know nothing. Socrates or whatever
this man could 100% make a podcast
think gabenwise :)
" I want to play videogames because, i want to *have fun* "
I watch Garbaj videos on half speed for that extra Garbaj vibe
Seeing garbaj stutter even a tad bit is actually wild
time to pack up garbaj
Couldn't have said it any better. 👏
I loved the video. It's more podcasty.
Cool musings.
Yes.
Do you have twitch? Love your stuff.
I don't think developers need to 3-5 years to make changes, I think they can modify the games they're currently making if a good idea comes along.
-So... Have you heard of Helldivers?
-Yeah, I've heard of her.
-Oh, i've heard about Helldivers too.
Haven't heard about this game!
"I don't know what I'm talking about" is overused. You know what you're talking about, buddy. Good game dev advice all over your channel.
I havent heard of it...
This is one of the few games thats really brought back fun into games. My only wish is that people wouldn't hot-mic the entire time, Id love to see PTT be the default, although I understand it might be hard for console gamers though. And it would be a shame to alienate them if PTT isnt something that can be as easily implemented with limited controller input. But maybe a mic threshold. would be nice?
A game i really recommend is GTFO, me and my friends just started playing it and love it. Its a challenging horror sc-fi co-op that has some pretty cool game mechanics
If anything, studio execs will try to cram Helldivers 2 features into games currently in development that shouldn't have them.
have you been training your voice? it sounds really lovely!
I agree that we should be more positive when a good game comes out, not every has oportunity to make a game like Helldivers 2, but this felt like 2 minutes of a video said in a slower, more unguided way. Maybe having a skeleton of a script, with points along a path would help with this style of a video
Is using a good example in service of criticizing something bad considered "negativity" now?
I fear for this generation, and I'm in my early 20's for god's sake
We are all positive when a good game comes out, the problem is it's pretty rare in the grand scheme of the gaming industry
Really wish I could play Helldivers
time brings changes, because if it would not, then why not do it tomorrow?
Garbage indeed.
Just like him being "she"
Do you still make PS2 models or even PS2 games because if so I would love to see a video of how you would make a PS2 game! With unreal engine or some sort of free 3D model game making software! I want to make a PS2 game really badly!
Love from Kerala
With respect, this video was Garbaj. Just a load of waffling that could be "you like something, enjoy it"
Hmm, haven't heard of the game before
It is certainly exhausting whenever an actually good game comes out and then people take that opportunity to still be negative about the games/companies that aren't good.
🎉
What I think they're learning is that you can sneak malware/spyware into a game and sheep with fomo will turn a blind eye if it's fun enough.
I think the truest problem is not that AAA companies need to "Take Notes", because they always do, and it always sucks...
Here is the pattern, a good game comes out, companies take their notes on what the game did right, and then we get so many games that copy what that game "did right" until we get utterly sick of it...there may be a lot of games like Helldivers 2 in the future, and they could be fun, or they could become more and more of a slog...what we want are new and fresh ideas entering the industry, and the only note that AAA companies should take is to quit playing it so safe. I think it's fair to say that the best games that come out are the ones that improve on formulas, give new twists to old formulas, and give us an experience we have not experienced before.
If AAA companies took notes on games like Helldivers, Lethal Company, or even something like Battlebit, then we would, (and probably will be getting), shitter and shitter copies of those games; and that is simply because they will not take notes in the right way. They will focus on copying the games formula to have a "guaranteed" success, instead of focusing on what the original game offered to an industry that was lacking it.
can you do a full body fps game tutorial in godot?
This has made me think now todd Howard hasn't made elder scrolls 6 because he needed technology to progress to give people a complete different experience then skyrim.
1 true
This is garbaje
make what is fun
5 years? Have you seen clones of Vampire Survivors?=)
isnt it just BRG on steroids?
Given that BRG came about few years ago, this would check out
BRG? Beep Rock Galactic?
@@Have_some_plasma Beer Rock Glyphids
This game was only a few months into development when DRG came out.
Though frankly, this game has alot more to do with helldivers 1 then anything, as it is a sequel... and is copying the elements from the top down game into a 3d format.
I'm psure now that helldivers 2 is out they made helldivers 1 super cheap, and they've stated they're not shutting it down anytime soon.
@@designdiario4324 As someone who has played both games, i truly have to agree, if you want to see the future of helldivers two, look to helldivers one, as it was supported quite well over these long nine years, and has plenty of content still not added to two, the mechs, tanks and APCs for one. It'll be a long while until we get original items added unto helldivers two in my opinion, as the wellspring of well thought-out and balanced helldivers one items is not yet dried.
Bean Rocket Guns
really interesting. I wonder what the games will look in the future when they will try to copy helldiver 2
While H2 will likely influence some future games, I am not holding my breath that it will improve the AAA industry in any way whatsoever. Those dumbf***s have been for years now looking at the repeatedly succeeding quality single player games and repeatedly utterly failing creatively bankrupt live services and are like "yea we're gonna double down on the s***ty low effort live services, because they are the future". H2 is a live service, yes, but it is one done well, and this little tidbit will fly completely over their heads. All they see is a successful live service and they don't care why it is so. It came out with a decent amount of content (that feels like a complete experience) and it does not nickle and dime you on every turn, locking a third of the stratagems behind a preorder of the $120 Bad-At-Financial-Decisions Edition and another third behind microtransactions valued at the price point of individual AA games.
If H2 was made by a typical AAA publisher, it would have been a pay to win dumpster fire released in early access at $70 Barebones Edition being the lowest entry point, with half its intended features missing and a roadmap promising that they will maybe actually finish making the game in 2 years time - but only if it manages to sell 8 million copies in the first month. Oh, and absolutely forget about the free Helldivers Mobilise warbond. That would be a paid battlepass on top of the inflated price you already paid for the game.
WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU MAN
i think it's worth mentioning that critically analyzing games (and any media for that matter) can be fun, but typically the way gamers do critical analysis is often shallow and with the extrinsic motivation of, like you say, proselytizing and finger wagging. and this style of criticism is just a good way to make oneself miserable.
however, analyzing a game as a means to engage with the property on a deeper level is entirely compatible with fun and, for me at least, often increases it. kind of like how people in a book club talk about books, talking about games in terms of the ways their mechanics work and how they relate to the themes of the game or whatever can be really engaging.
of course, if that's not your thing then it won't be fun to do it, but i wanted to express the difference between the cynical "why doesn't he game industry get its act together and make games like this?" vs just engaging with the game for its own sake.
Nah, id complain
Hello :)
@Garbaj you were repeating the same point at least 4 times in different words. and also had the gameplay run after you finished and got completely silence, at least have like ending music or game sounds.
the king is back
queen*
@@sammshoyu8434 wha
You seriously don't know WTF you're talking about in this video just like you said
Though appreciate for being regular,
You could make Godot tutorial if you have free time, I really loved how you explained game development topics in your previous video.
I agree with the sentiment to enjoy games and letting that speak to developers, but I disagree that the dissecting or discussions/lectures are unproductive. You bring a good point that developers are probably taking notes and that change will take a while to show in the industry but I still think content like that which disecting game desigm are very valuable.
They can highlight core aspects of a game and allow for not only devs, but players to become aware of those aspects too. Having a portion of the gaming sphere more literate in game design and analyzing games more (I feel) leads to better feedback givers, future devs, and just overall makes people better analyzers of games.
I think people should enjoy Helldivers and that will largely make its effect on game devs, but explicitly dissecting it too can help make these concepts more fleshed out and can make good discourse.
What happens when you can't enjoy a game?
therapy
Garbi.... Idk it sounds cute.
Garbaj attempts to not have a woefully uninformed take while perching himself on the basis of "AS A GAME DEVELOPER": 100% IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE
Yeah, specially when he said: "My opinion is the only valid one, this is a highly researched video, I have had 40 years of experience making and shipping successful games and if you don't believe me, go play them"
@@sechmascmyeah, he really fell off. Specially when he kidnaped my family and also that one time he almost exploded the Pentagon with bombs strapped to him. I was really dissapointed
I like your content. But this experiment's result is poorer than your usual content. You kinda rambled all over the place and repeated yourself a lot. I just wanted to give you some honest feedback. Glad you are enjoying Helldivers 2.
I mean he DID say it’s unscripted and off the cuff. I guess warnings aren’t enough 😂
@@ZuluZizowhat are you on about?
You are making nothing but a fool of yourself with this nonsense
@@Bittaminshe* Garbaj is trans
@@sky_rig noone cares and noone asked just shut up
@@ZuluZizole strawman
what are the lessons that helldivers teaches? i only saw, that everyone and a rock is talking about it, but everything i saw from it (including this video) doesn't look really engaging or different. to anyone who has the time, what am i missing?
The gameplay is fairly simple, it isn't a groundbreaking game in this sense. What lessons people are trying to teach from it is the element of live-service as a game.
The game has earnable (found in-game) micro-currency that sells at a very fair rate and doesn't make you buy more than you need. You dont need to pay more than the price of the game, which is also very fair at 40 dollars.
The warbonds (battle pass) are fun to unlock, not a limited time, and doesn't offer ANY true pay-to-win goods on the premium pass.
The live service operates as a huge war-sim with events semi-organically being made from the direction of the war-effort and such. This makes for interesting shared story-making between the devs and players, rather than using basic seasonal event cosmetics to get players to come back.
I hope this illustrated the difference between Helldivers 2 and any other live-service shooter out right now. As a paid experience, it is extremely fair to both your wallet and time.
What is blud yapping about.
Your idea of the game being copied in 3 years might not be true. If a game has been searching for a loop and have a good looking or "feeling" game they could easily switch over in under a year. Look at the battle royale formula how it was copied so quickly
It has been a while since I've caught a vid of yours. miss u mr. bro
This video kinda makes me sad, what you're saying that we should have fun while playing a game, that it's absolutely correct, but the problem it's that you shouldn't be telling this to your audience, it should be a base of any game, sure some might like RTS more than FPS, if you know you don't like a genre of games don't play them, but when you play a game you're doing it for 1 reason: TO HAVE FUN, that the most important part, everything else comes after.
Industries have ruined games so much that now "having fun" almost start to sound like a meme, I can't allow this to happen.
God bless brother
I just want to say that saying that you dont know what will happen to games, and how the industry will evolve into is not true.
If you are not in the industry, yes then that is true, you dont know it, but if you are in a big 3A game studio, then you are working on 'the things of the future'.
Just like GTA developers know what they are making for the future.
Your voice sounds higher pitch than I remember
He thinks he's a she now.
Sorry are you actualy she/they or is that just a joke?
why would it be a joke
where he say that
@@skiez7430 their x account
Twitter bio says she/they. why would it be a joke?
@@blacxthornE because this is re*arded
What's this even about?
People are playing the game. There's over half a million concurrent players fresh out of launch
Why do some people get so triggered by people forming criticism? No one would be singing the praises for HD2 if no one was playing the game
there is no paytowin in that thing its multiplayer, its more chill game, its fun, and nice graphic what else u want ???
( i want a pc to run it)
I don't know if that was your message here, but I'm getting tired of constant "finger-wagging" at developers. "Oh, %developer team X% better take notes, the lazy bastards!", "Oh no, modern gaming is dead, mediocre uninspired buggy slop the west has fallen" or the classic "Nintendo hire this man" circlejerk.
The ignorance coupled with sheer self-confidence is disgusting, and it's being fed by "content creators" who love to act as experts with absolute authority. You, Garbaj, are at least into gamedev and can understand some nuance. But some particular characters on youtube? Just pure clowns thinking they're so deep and insightful, classic "idea guys" so high on their own farts.
This is where I believe that you're wrong. Just like with everything else, games also have a history. If we are to take a peek into that history, you will see that they solely relied on what current day hardware can put out. This means that the future will solely rely on software manipulation and conjunctional hardware networking. Unreal Engine's Nanite proves that manipulating just a little bit more to show a little bit less can have a huge impact for the developers and players. When it comes to the aspects of market production, it just boils down to what people will play. If the majority of people choose an unoriginal, uninspiring, high fidelity game, then more of those games- such as COD, will be produced. The market can easily be manipulated since it is and has always been artificial.
I dont really want any publisher to do "more of that". Helldivers 2 seems fun, but the industry we got today feels alot like copy and paste. The game has its own unique characteristics, and thats cool, but i dont want a cheep copy of that
Not really in 3-5 years. Some games are already in production, some people could have similar idea. Some will change their games a bit. Most costly in game now is, lets say, aesthetic. All kinds of models, effects etc. The programming part is much smaller compared to liek decade ago. So we can see similarities in games in year from now at most.
PS. Sole reason I won't play this game is anticheat. It was designed to protect microtransaction shop. And it is co-op game, so why anticheat in first place?
i like how Minimaps dissapeared from a couple modern game, tbh good riddance.
once you get rid of minimaps, you're exist in the world.
every buildings and shop is properly labeled just like real world.
and i don't see the point of minimaps anymore.
it just didn't make sense having a Hyperrealistics graphics, but you only see the tiny pixels of Minimaps all the time,
and ignoring the rest of the view.
and getting lost in the game is not bad either, this is the part of the fun
you might as well play with only minimaps.
i think this "no map" idea came from a UA-camr from if i remember correctly 5 years ago,
but it was finally being implemented in the game.
wasnt cheating a problem because one player cheating would affect other players who werent trying to break the game ?
i guess they couldd make the anticheating optional with a matchmaker like some steam games have VAC servers and servers without VAC and the player can choose
@@jensenraylight8011 games didnt use to have minimaps before, like DOOM had it and it was missing on most other shooters inspired by doom, most nintendo games didnt have minimap, skirym has a compass but no minimap (you used clairvoiance to find the way) i think it only became a prominent feature when everything became an rpg after the success of wow
@@devforfun5618 Well, it is co-op game, not pvp. So You can just leave game.
same, i'm very very Tired of people trying to be the Gordon Ramsay of Gamings.
those Haters tend to punish any game that was trying to change stuff, they didn't like change.
they always compared the any game with their favorite game.
i saw this a lot, Most people only played COD, Battlefield or Fortnite, and expect all game to behave like that,
Keep running and shooting like a madman, The world is just a background noise to them.
which is why Modern game almost become Monoculture, where no diversity can exists.
we really need to learn to play the game as it is, let the game stand on its own,
and not compare it to the other game.
because Most of the time, once you knee deep into the game system, you will actualy appreciate the Reason
behind those decisions, it make sense, and it was actually the thing what makes the game fun.
PS5 era game gave me hope,
finally the graphics is close to real life, it's very immersive to the point that my brain believe that it was real,
all of the Adventure in the world become real,
and i really see some devs was trying to make Modern game Right again.
Haters want game to be samey, it's like a parasite that infect the game industry,
There are a lot of Great game get their rating tanked, and people avoid the game,
because some COD Bros was trash talking it everywhere on the internet.
"This video will be unscripted"
*Proceeds to make up words*
In a more serious tone, I think you gave great advice. But also the "repeteadly pay for the same thing" feeling is what prevents people from truly enjoying stuff. Games come out rushed and unfinished, filled with bugs, which sets of the hype train of shitting on the studio/devs/game, which in turn drives (generally speaking) people away from the game, which is a terrible thing for a live service. No people, no service. And then the game shuts down and you paid 40 to 60 dollars for a "potential period of fun" rather than something you own.
I understand is not the best example, as we also pay again for a tv or a kitchen appliance. But the feeling that gives is different. Generally speaking you buy a toaster, and it will toast your bread. The end. You USUALLY get what you paid for, and generally speaking if you maintain it maybe it lasts 2 or 3 to 5 years before it needs replacement. Or maybe more. In the case of these games, you have to first have a good game that is fun and people like, then you have to have devs/studios with balls like Palworld or Larian Studios. Then you need for all the variables to (usually) be positive so the game doesn't shut down fast.
If you told me you'll be playing helldivers 2 for the next 4 or 5 years, then sure. No problem. Having thousands of hours of fun in the span of 5 years for 60 bucks sounds reasonable. But we know that isn't reality. Hopefully the game does great, but I feel in 6 months from now or maybe a year, it'll be "dead".
by the title i thought it will be about that ´´Loosing is fun´´ mentality that overtook the comunity :D
i like that, as long as failing isnt a waste of time, not always finishing the mission can be fun, like darktide on launch was fun even when losing, the problem is returning to the base and having nothing of worth to unlock to keep you trying again and the story being too boring to make you want to see what happens next, left 4 dead is still the gold standard because the game didnt have anything to unlock but the enviromentaal story telling and the character writing was amazing
I'll enjoy it when they'll remove nProtect
You fell off hard..
Deep Rock Galactic is miles better.