$125 vs. $517 Brakes - Budget vs. Baller Episode 7
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2022
- A good set of mountain bike brakes will allow you to brake later into corners, control your speed more easily in steep terrain, and make those car park jibs a breeze. But how much do you actually need to spend on a good set of brakes? Does safety really matter? Well, today we're going to find out with Henry's $125 brakes versus Jason's $517 brakes.
*The price mentioned for Jason's brakes in the video is incorrect - the correct price is $349 for the pair, plus $87 for each rotor.
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New pads, rotors, and a bleed would have been the “budget” option here…
And the price would have been less that the crap brakes they purchased.
Right... The mentality is absurd.
Or Shimano mt420s great power for price, especially with metallic pads
Yeahhh, looks like it wasn't bleed properly that makes it a poor performer. Could have been better if it was done properly.
I don't know why they would do it the way they did vs good pads and a fresh bleed. I miss when Pinkbike had brains and common sense.
would love to see a video where yall test all of the different brake brands performance on this slab
Yeah and with those cheap tires
@@rileybox2498 second this. See how the high end Magura, Shimano, Sram and TRP compare to their cheapest options from those brands.
There's charts one with average brake strengths etc . Pretty much trick stuff is at ridiculous 114+NM or something to do woth newton's/ pounds per square inch , closely followed by mt7 , mt5 and then hopes, trps , etc all kimd of roughly the same
You can see Remy ride the best brakes (Hayes) on slabs like this all day on his channel
@@fixienick "Best" can be subjective, one person's best is a others average. For me the best brake wouldn't just be braking force but the overall ease. Maguras for me kind of fit thT bill. Very easy instLl , bleeding , cheap easy to find pads and rotors. Very strong feel. Hopes are huge where I live as its UK. But I dunno I just don't feel £340+ for 2 brakes Pre buying rotor is value. They even run on Dot which os a bit more of an ass to use and bring on holidays pr to races than Mineral oils
Can y'all use actual decent entry level parts next time so Henry doesn't die
I've thought about this from the very start.... In an ideal world, a middle spec'd bike would have been a good idea to throw in the mix too, to see how they compare to the ultra top spec gear!
I think you're missing the point he's testing these products so other people don't have to plus the whole entertainment thing
@@1uke69er I’m not missing the point at all, I get that it’s to show the massive disparity to cheap crap and top end stuff and for entertainment … I’m just saying it would be good to ALSO (key word) throw in a mid-level upgraded bikes with parts that people would actually buy in the real world.
No beciase then you would know that deore is 85% as good as Xtr
@@robwarden6973 that’s a real bad example generally the biggest difference in a derailleur is weight so yeah, I agree.
However, a set of SLX brakes on a mid level specced bike would give a good mid point between the absolute garbage that Henry ended up running and the (almost) top tier stuff that Jason ended up with.
Wish you went for a budget set of shimanos instead of dangerous set of unbranded brakes
Kinda defeats the possible purpose for this series, unless, ofcourse, sensible budgets are not what they had in mind...
RIGHT?! Like nobody would buy these, why don't they read the comments? We've been saying this same thing for other parts too.
@@jrmusan because they don’t care, this is what their sponsor wants.
They def want to show how bad the generic cheap internet brands are. But nobody that actually bikes would shop these brands. Use the cheapest options on Jensen and then show the difference between that and high end components and then this would be a better series. Real bike brands make quality entry level components so that wouldn’t be as sensational I guess.
Those budget shimanos would have been similar price too.
Really feeling for Henry on this one. Watching him get trash parts (not what I define as budget), is rough. Some of these "upgrades" have been dangerous downgrades, mostly thinking of the tires and brakes. Too bad budget couldn't be identified as legitimate parts that don't break the bank. Would be cool to see what could be accomplished on a realistic budget, Amazon basement parts are not really fun to watch.
I agree, how much performance would 200 have added to original forks if the damper/ internal seals and gubbinsisissssiz might have done in his competent hands
Cannot agree more, this should be called "trash vs. baller". There was so much potential in these series.
Pinkbike have said that this series is more for entertainment than actual sensible upgrades.
@@julesowen-jones9815 and it was, polar extremes
Wouldn't get sponsorship otherwise...
Budget brakes like Shimano MT420 are actually pretty good. Same bike with them or XTR brakes and it's gonna be the rider that makes the difference, not the brakes.
Don't get me wrong, I love the bling and the very small improvements/feel of expensive parts, but I'm not kidding myself that they are good value 🤣
Really don't get how this is a cheaper upgrade compared to a bleed and new rotors/pads...
At my shop 2 brake bleeds and 2 sets of mtx red pads for those guides would run $140+ tax and would be miles ahead of those no brand brakes
I cannot agree with the naming of this series. Dont get me wrong its fun.. But the name should be As Cheap as Possible vs Baller.. Budget is not always the cheapest. Budget is really bang for buck. Not paying 500% extra for 2% more performens or weight savings.
But it's showcasing parts for people that are on an absolute minimum budget of "upgrades" and showing which components are acceptable to go that route and others where it's far my applicable to go higher range of price and performance.. my take is that it's fitting 😉
@@CJmtb91 so did you miss the episode where Henry said that the wheels were definitely worth running? And highly rated the saddle and grips.. I am in the group that thinks these cheap cheap components from no name brands are often a false economy but that is where this series stands out because it gives a real world display of what components are basically a failure and a downgrade from stock but where you can buy bargain basement components and still have a well put together rig.. 🤷🏼
@@OLI-vx1md But they replace good parts with worse on the socalled budget bike. A service on the fork and shock would be miles cheaper AND BETTER. Same with drivetrian and brakes. Sorry augument not valid.
@@SGT2603 yes I am aware of the fact that servicing preexisting would have had a better outcome however that simply wasn't the premise of the series. Sorry arguement not valid (how pretentious!).
@@OLI-vx1md Budget does not = Cheapest. Everything is a Budget. If i make alot of money my monthly budget is higher. Budget is relative. The wording of the series is still wrong. Then it should have been called cheapest new parts.
Pretty sure they edited out 7 hours of Jason trying to bleed the Magura brakes.
Good lord my rear mag that installed through frame bled perfect the first time. The front? Had to bleed that turd about 8 times.
@@rich75233 The best part is how you finally get them feeling great and then the randomly pull to the bar halfway through the next ride haha.
Yup. If you know you know haha
*and to have the bleed fail upon changing more than 1k feet of elevation.
I also had a bit of a mission to get my Mags right (DEFINITELY use the syringe with the carb hole, and find a vid of how to use it, if you don't know how), but mine absolutely do not fade under any circumstances anymore (including riding In N Out on the vid, and long descents in Gifford Pinchot)
MT5? really? even though they are Fabio Wibmer's, they only cost more than regular MT5 and perform the same. I actually expectet something like Trickstuff...
still relieved that Mike isn't on cable-actuated brakes
Trickstuff... This video would be available in 9 months... 😉
And no... this is not a hate... I'm on some trickstuff components as well and really like them ✌️ but I think it's easier to get your hands on their stuff over here in Germany
@@yannicbrose kinda true. But still Mt5.... they could at least have gone for mt7, they got way more Power and a bite-point-adjuster that even works...
@@clemens8744 agree✌️ only ridden mt5s before. Also plenty of power.
Definetely. Love my Piccolas HD and won't let go of them
Did either of them bother to bed in the new brakes before the slab test? I’m hoping that if they do a second season, they take time to explain how and why the parts need to be changed (like what donut does every episode)
I had the same thought. Henry's braking issue seemed like a symptom of no or poor bedding.
I dont think they are stupid haha
@@GD-gj6mn honestly I thinks it's the SHITTY brake's fault lol
@@marcogiacomelli3625 I don’t I have these brakes and if you bleed and bed them properly they work just as good as shimano mt200 or 300 series brakes.
@@kylebatson5971 honest, that'll teach me to shut up if I didn't try them lol
Levy picked the dumbest parts for this series. You know you can get Deore 6000 brakes set for 120$, right?
But in rainbow colours?
;-)
Clarks M4 is four piston brakes I use and are under £100
"LOOK HOW NEAT MY FRONT END LOOKS"
Dropper companies hate him. Find out how this man outsmarted every dropper brand with one simple toilet flush. You won't believe #2...
Don't use these ultra cheap parts for the test of budget vs baller. In all of these episodes the budget option would have been different. Why change the stock bars for worse ones. An actual budget option would have been a nice-ish aluminum option. Seriously guys, great concept, poor execution.
Outside of the MTB world, nothing besides these ultra cheap parts is anything near budget tbh. But I know what you mean
I think the idea of this video was to show just how bad the ultra cheap parts are and discourage people from buying them.
Well that and entertainment value
@@larsweibel6192 eh nope there is still a good middle ground where you get stuff that lasts and is only marginally worse than stupidly expensive stuff. you can get 40 different handlebars on craigslist that have a good width and usable backsweep for 5 $ on craigslist.
Yeah, a bit of a bumbling video...
thanks to pinkbike i learn about terrible brands ive never seen before or knew existed, which turn out, produce bad stuff.
this isnt budget vs baller this is crappiest-we-found vs baller. maybe redo this with real budget parts. wont be much more expensive, but will be more interesting.
Yeah shimano mt200 is budget imo but they work
Crappiest they can find vs unnecessarily expensive, should've gone with regular high end brakes instead of "limited edition" brakes that cost more for the name.
You can buy a set of Magura(front and back) for 200 in Belgium(without disks). So what's the point of buying Chinese shit that will probably fail on you in the first month? Lol
Could have literally gotten tekro brakes with 180 rotors for 110$ instead of whatever the hell that is
Yup, definetly. I have Tektro and they're great!
Yup, definetly. I have Tektro and they're great!
Henry, you’re a LEGEND. I would NEVER drop into a trail like that on sketchy brakes.
I was equally as amped for the "toilet chain" mod. We just did that with my buddy's budget dropper the other day!
mt-200 brakes from shimano is literally $50 per set + rotor or you could have gone for some zoom 4 pot brakes
and the mt 200 rock. last for years.
Broke my hand due to brake fade on a gnarly descent. Learned my lesson, have MT5 HC's and always keep those maintained religiously. Always worth spending more $$$ and time on brakes.
I have tektro m275 hydros they work well for me at least
@@gulfcitynd yeah but tektro are TRP, so you still getting quality just as a lower price.
@@wild_yeti same as say shimano mt200. For the standard riding they are good. Especially in dry not that steep environments
@@XxNoMercyNL mt200 are terrible possibly better than zoom but they are the most basic hydrolics shimano make they work they don't have feel modulation adjustment but they work on tame stuff don't take them downhilling or the likes
Shimano make a budget 4 pot caliper called the mt420 that's a great budget option basicly a saint caliper with out the fancy bits and lines
Overpriced vs junk parts part meh
Sorry boys, but you've taken this to far! It's not budget v baller. It's cheapest crap you can find on amazon vs baller. No proper mountain biker or beginner would ever consider zoom brakes or half the components you've got. You should have gone for budget shimano, sram, etc.
Everyone knows that deore or NX is good. Whats the point ?
Agreed. However, perhaps we should look at this as a cautionary tale to NOT buy cheap crap just to save a few bucks?
@@djhillesq issue is that some of this stuff is an upgrade for really entry level stuff but these guys are fucking downgrading the bikes.
Should have got a pair of MT200 over these zoom ones
Ok but having a larger rotor makes all the difference. The physics. That’s not a fair comparison.
Spot on sir, I have had budget Shimano and 203 rotors front and rear for about 5 years now with sintered pads. Stops me
I would love a re-do of this series with actual budget parts, not "cheapest we could find." Parts that would actually be an upgrade like a Rockshox Judy fork, or the Advent X drivetrain, or Deore BR-M6100 disc brakes. The Butget bike really isn't getting "upgrades," they're making the bike un-rideable with the brakes and tires.
Advent x is really good tbh
Those ain't 850$ 😂😂
Maybe after this series you can take that cheap parts bike and upgrade with decent lower end parts and compare it to the baller bike as well.
This is not UPGRADING.
This is wasting money making a bike WORSE!
Love it!
That is a faquet
You guys should've made it so that the budget person buys either:
A) standard budget stuff like Shimano deore
B) some stuff they can find used online for the same price as standard budget stuff.
This would make the series more comparable and not leave such s empty void of a gap in between the two ends.
That's my opinion on this series and if you don't agree, I am completely fine with that.
Exactly. That's the point of the original budget vs baller from donut media. For the cars the budget car got a good set of brake pads and rotors whilst the baller got a full race ready brake kit. This version is a joke
@@vongdong10 yeah man I watched it and they did it actually right
They discussed it on the podcast but honestly i wasnt convinced, he was talking about how they already review budget parts and people are gonne complain either way and blah blah bl;ah
Everyone knows that deore is good. They want to showcase what happens if you build a bike with wish/alibaba parts
Yeah this whole series has been completely pointless
I am a fellow Indian owning a Montra Downtown 2017 with a NEW BUDGET DIRT CHEAP 3.76$ front Disk brake with stock rotor. The brake has the power to vibrate like ABS when I give full power and are extremely powerful! my whole bike costs like 174.31$ with dual Disk brakes! This is absolutely ridiculous that a 125$ brake can't lock in!
Good luck riding and have a great day :)
EDIT: It has Cable brakes not hydraulic (like wtf u expect from 4$brakes ???). They seemed to look like they would work just like the 850$ brakes shown in this video (the SLOW BRAKING test). But I think my brakes will get clapped in the sheer power of the 850$ brakes.
Clarks M4 is below £100 so I would of used for budget unless Shimano still get for £50
@@mlee6050 Thankyou!
Should have featured the quad piston zoom brakes. They bite bettee than the two piston zooms.
seems like the cheap brakes had air in the system, or leaking, maybe contaminated rotors due to leaks.But the crazy tightly installed hoses is silly, but it's possible to undo them, butt it's crazy tight, I've seen reviews of these brakes. But Zoom has discontinued these brakes.
Why are the maguras so expensive in usa? In germany, the fabuo wibmers mt5s are like 270 euros
Because they're german brakes :P
Loving the series so far, but i think it would be alot more informative if the budget upgrades where also sensible upgrades, making use of shimano deore for example. Because i dont think anyone is really going to use these parts properly
Exactly. I live in the netherlands so i dont need metallic brakes because its not so steep and long decending. But my bike has 2 shimano mt200 levers and 180 rear 203 front rotor from shimano also. Costed me not even 100 euro. (112 dollar ) and they work really good. At least they stop you. Instead of this " budget " set that doesnt even stop you properly
i wouldve liked to see episode two; budget service vs comprehensive service at an LBS, just to see what those bikes couldve been capable of, had they been maintained differently.
great series, everything jason seems to touch turns to gold.
Henry’s bike is quickly becoming a death trap.
This has been a fun series so far. I do wonder why Jason chose to use the MT 5 Fabio Wibmers vs. the MT 7 Pro or Raceline since the idea of the series was budget vs baller. The MT 7 lever is much more adjustable. Another thing that has me scratching my head is Jason using CL brake adapters on the MDR-P rotors. Mine CLEARLY say on them "NOT FOR CL ADAPTER USE" on them. I guess they chose to ignore that warning.. (FYI, yes I know they will work just fine with the Shimano SM-RTAD05 as I have done it myself) Magura is now making a MDR-P rotor made for CL..they just are not available on any USA based online bike shop that I've found.
They should’ve made it so that the “baller” is the most expensive part on the market, and the “budget” is the best they could find under a percentage, say 20%-40%, of the cost of the “baller” part
exactly, they bought the cheapest of cheap, so on the high end they should have bought the most expensive in every single category. this is really a zero for being informative...
I have a pair of those zoom brakes and they're not nearly as bad as they make them out to be. They work perfectly well out of the box and I didn't even bother to bleed them, so they're probably even better potentially.
Seems to be an agenda on some of these types of videos.
I sueezed more from my brakes by switching to Hope 203 discs on my old Magura Trail Sports. Best discs on the market and sexy too. Hell, Hope V4 brakes on 203mm Hope Discs set my mate back about £500 and he can stop only a little quicker than me on my £250 set up.
And those Zoom Shimano clones are decent enough with some proper pads in there and a good bleed. Had a set on an old bike and now they're helping get a friend into the sport on 180mm discs.
I've been really looking forward to this episode. Definitely the most interesting.
I want to see you guys swap the bikes at some point!!! 🤣
I love the concept of this series, but y'all dropped the ball on it. Mostly all of the parts chosen for Henry's bike are downgrades. Almost everyone who does budget upgrades try to find the best value upgrades by looking at reviews and price and choosing the best product that fits in their budget.
By just buying the cheapest parts without regard for performance doesn't really show an accurate representation of how most people would upgrade a bike on a budget.
A mixture of value and performance is what we really want to see.
exactly
100%, this video was a fail
@@Jessetheoutdoorman Series*
Love how Jason started saying ‘routing’ the English (proper) way towards the end! 😂
These formats are pretty good, you could even do Brand Vs Brand. Keep up the great work lads.
This and the tires still feel like where it's more entertainment than useful consumer information... this does make me feel really great about how I've specced and set up my bike, because 90% of the top end performance is readily available at half the price... I feel like that's a hard comparison to make work, because people would get some ideas that they can do a better job than most product managers.
I tried buying the Zoom brakes months ago, but they never shipped after weeks of waiting, so I got the Magura MT7 instead. By sheer coincidence, you guys are testing then head to head, and I'm just laughing my arse off at the whole thing. 💯👍 Thanks so much for this video
i just bought that magura signature setup and thats top of the line brake for enduro. nice video!!!
I’ve been waiting for the new episode let’s goooo
I put those Zoom brakes on my son’s old 26” and I thought they worked a treat. Admittedly, they weren’t unicorn vomit coloured.
I legitimately laughed audibly louder than I should at work at the toilet chain dropper.
I do love this series, though it seems you guys have gone a bit too 'budget'... I know that is subjective but feel you could have a much better comparison with a budget but known brand instead of Amazon/eBay.
This reminds me of Trek Marlin 5 circa 2014 or so. Its mechanical disc brakes pretty much just added noise to the experience. Slowing the bike down not so much.
Dude's sounded like a super villain when he laughed. LOL!
Love this series, so good!
I’ve ridden on some zoom brakes. When I saw the hill I shouted at my screen not to send it lmfao
I think they should do paint jobs as a part like us cheap and expensive spray paint and clear coat. They get to choose what colour they want, I think it would make the bikes look 10x better
great series, thanks
Interesting seeing you run a centre lock adaptor on the MDR-P front rotor when Magura state to never do this…
“Could you see the fear in my eyes?”
As plain as day.
Initially I thought it was Henry in the orange jacket and was feeling pretty good as someone who was seriously considering the Amazon zoom brakes. My thought was "They're hydraulic brakes, how bad can they actually be?" Now the bike I would have put them on isn't going on trails like that but I'd like a wider safety margin than what those would likely provide. Instead of buying new, very cheap brakes off the internet I think I'll spend the same or a tiny bit more and get used branded brakes. Good video thanks!
Great series! Totally enjoyed it.
"I've been called budget bits before" hahahaha Henry!!
"I love how external routing makes a 6k bicycle look like a weed wacker...." The best quote of this video hahaha
Nice one… one thing though, if you read the Magura disc manual, it is specifically mentioned that it cannot be attached to a centerlock adapter :)
why not?
I put shimano mt200's and 200 rotors on a Mongoose ledge x1. While I couldn't ride my bike down that hill, either of those guys could without any trouble. With adaptors total, about $80.
The series should be called "downgrading a bike vs upgrading a bike"
It seems like you guys have the best job ever. I’d love to do something like this for a living
Henry was brave going down that slab
'Budget' doesn't have to mean 'shit' but in this case in definitely does. I guess the video wouldn't be as entertaining if the budget options were sensible.
Even entry level hydraulic brakes from Shimano and SRAM/Tektro are way cheaper and those perform good. Even the basic Shimano Deore brakes is definitely bang for the buck
My word Henry... kudos for even dropping in to In&Out with those brakes. I'm on there fairly regularly, but I can't imagine doing so not knowing my brakes were working at their best, let alone some random amazon brake set! That must have been terrifying not feeling any bite point with your speed just ramping up the way it was... yikes!
I have some baller brakes now, but had some sketchy ones before. I’ve noticed I’m slower with the better brakes. Old ones I definitely went into some turns faster than I wanted. But most of the time it worked out.
I had the same issue as Henry with the hose getting stuck in the lever with some tektro brakes so what we did is brung the bike over to the vice and clamped the hose in the vice and pulled on the lever as hard as possible until it broke free. We then replaced the hose lol
Not sure any of us watching this series or following Pinkbike in general would ever even consider these “budget” options whether that be for us, or people we help introduce to the sport. Much better budget options from reputable manufacturers.
Zoom have released a 4 pot brake set..it will be fair to compare it by using 203mm rotor and 4 pot zoom brake set..
episode 7: We kill Henry
Tektro $100 brake set 180mm gets you lock front and rear anytime you want and decent modulation, I think there is something off with this zoom, faulty one or just didint bleed enought and somwhere air trapped
As much as I love these series comparing parts at different price points, installing such substandard- really downgrades -on the "budget" bike is just about useless for learning anything. I know many other people have said something along these lines, but I really would love to see a revised series from you guys!
Definitely need to redo this series. Like, budget Vs Expensive, but budget where people will actually spend money, proper parts that don't cost a fortune, like marzocchi suspension, with deore parts vs new the sram etc.
Not some off brand components that don't work 🤣
8:30 it reminds me of when my friends magnesium avids kept going back for repair (s-works epic install around 2010) and lent him various other brakes each time, even the legendary bb-7 mechanical and he thought he one was better than his top end juicys 🤣😂
I have 15 year old deore m535 brakes with aliexpress rotor. That was around 100$ and they can lock the wheel without a problem
loved this video.
nice to see you here Henry.
Zoom, Hygia, and another generic brakes in my bicycle and ... I ended with Hope Tech and mono mini pro. They worth every euro I have paid. With brakes I have no doubts. It is the fear, you go slow and still without control because you know you cannot control the speed, you feel rigid etc. With good brakes ... all is under control and you go with more control, you focuse in the line and the grip of your tires.
This has been s great series but I feel like you should redo it with more sensible budget parts. Maybe set an upgrade ceiling, what can you do with $1000 and what can you do with $3000 or something?
@7:44 Henry squirts mineral oil on his front rotor and then looks up at the camera person like “oops” 🤦♂️😂
Shoulda put some Paul Klampers on the Baller build! And Henry, to clean up cables, how about clamping the dropper lever to the seat rails so you could have just a couple inches of cable? It's almost like it would be wireless! Just have to be okay with riding one-handed while you raise and lower it...And then you did almost exactly that 10 seconds after the point I paused it to say that.
Woulda been cool to get an IR camera on this to also see how much heat builds up.
I somehow always manage to round off the bolts on my bike even if I'm not tightening it all the way, it's really annoying and I don't know what to do after they've rounded off. Can anyone share some of the techniques that I can use and how I can avoid rounding off my bolts? I'm quite inexperienced and would love to learn a few tips. Thanks
Buy some good quality (not necessarily super expensive) tools that fit nicely and get a torque wrench to avoid over tightening things. Some super cheap or ultra light weight bolts are however made of cheese and are a nightmare to work with. And if you have a rounded bolt you can try gripping it with vice grips or if there's nothing to easily grip drilling a hole in the centre and using an "easy-out" type product, a bit of release oil can help if the bolt is corroded.
"No swearing" I hear Henry "oh shit" at the 2:08 mark lol
I just got a set of MT5 for closer to $250 brand new.. it was actually kinda tricky to get all of the air out of them, might just be the cheapo bleed kit I have, but kinda surprised you didn't go mt7 or trick stuff
Never heard the word Cable so much when fitting Hoses haha
I've been using those Zoom brakes from quite some time now and I can say, Henry, it's really scary at steep descents.
Although doing those brake adjustment can help, I think that the sintered brake pads that came with it, is kinda sketchy. My rear brake pads are freaking rusting. Hahaha I need a new set.
This series is pretty funny. I get the complainants but these videos have been pretty enjoyable.
The series is fun but this is not safe to do for Henry
Henry is such a genius with that dropper post
Anyone know what that scythe looking thing at the top of the tool rack is for?
As someone who rides trials (brakes are EVERYTHING) this was hard to watch for Henry's sake
Well Henry did have the slowest time down on the test run!🤣
my friend used to run zoom breaks, they would stop him but that's about it and they only worked for a few months before they could barely even slow him down.
Let me say I have the magura Mt7 on my 2019 stump jumper with the same rotors being used and they are just the best. Even Magura lower end brakes the Magura sport which has the MT5 caliper and I have on my trek rail are also awesome. But the rotors Henry has I do have those also and very surprising they work pretty darn well. It all comes down to brake pads. I tried using budget pads with my Maguras and holy crap were they bad. If you can’t afford good brakes at least go for the better brake pads.
I totally agree with you that the pads chosen make all the difference with my Magura MT5's and MT Thirty's.. It is a night and day difference between the standard pad vs the 8.R I am now using on both setups.
I still hate seeing the beautiful AXS dropper and then him clamping it on the stanchion