been a subscriber for a while now. here is a fun fact. there are more than 100 million of them produced. that's 1 for every 3 people in the US. also, they are about 25-28 inches long inches from bellhousing flange to water pump pully depending on if you have the short pump or the long pump. if you lined them up end to end it would stretch over 40,000 miles, around the earth more than 1.7 times. or from LA to NYC over 14 times. to the best of my knowledge world Products offered the S/R head in 3 different chamber sizes. a 58 cc, 67 cc and 76 cc. they are ok heads. better than most factory heads, but the Fast Burn and Vortec heads are better. I build Big Block Chevys for restorations and drag boats as a hobby. but I occasionally build small block for Restations or mild hot rods. my current project is a kind of a "Day 2" restoration for a 71 SS 396 Camaro. factory numbers matching engine, but with a bigger cam, vintage Cal customs valve covers, and set of vintage Ansen Sprint rims. even has a working vintage 8 track tape and Led Zepplin volume 4 tape.
Another great informational video. Thanks Allen. By the way, that Lincoln in the back ground is bad to the bone. It will handle everything from exhaust to framework. It's expensive but worth every penny. Thank again Allen....
A more accurate way ( I think anyway ) to check the accuracy of a valve spring height mic is to use a micrometer. You can get past the lip that locates the retainer and get a real reading on the accuracy. I have never cared for snap gauges ( yes I do have a set ) due to variations in the readings. There are too many variables with a snap gauge. Make it tight enough, are you actually perpendicular to the retainer, is the retainer fully seated, etc. With a height mic you eliminate most of those variables and you can make sure the retainers are seated. Just my opinion, but I do like your vids...........
To keep from cutting the O ring seals compress the spring then install the seal and gently push it down the valve into the groove with a pocket screwdriver then install the locks.
The proper way to install the O ring factory seals, is to put them on after you compress the springs, but like you said you need to run the oil shields along w the O ring. When you release the spring the seal is compressed inside the retainer.
I heard years ago that you don't want to run both kinds of seals at the same time because, the valve won't get enough lubrication. I used Pontiac "umbrella seals on several sbc motors. While I'm here, I have some '58 Pontiac heads that have holes drilled in the sides of the heads that go straight in to the valve guides. Any idea why they did this? There are small raised bosses where the holes are. It's only the intakes that are drilled.
Been off ebay at least 10 yrs. Got new heads intakes, $$ items to sell but worried about someone pulling a fast one on me trying to get free parts. Moved to a rural area and zero responses...no money out here.
To install the Chevy O ring seals, compress the valve spring with the retainer on top. Then work the seal down to its groove, a bit of a pain. Then the keepers can be installed and the seal will not be damaged. But positive seals on the guides work much better.
Port flow will trump any small changes in SCR. Cylinder heads 99.44% of the time come with larger chambers than advertised; this is called the Serviceability margin. Measuring a chamber without a plate will result in a higher/larger cc due to the “dome” of the fluid extending above the deck surface.
A bit of 3mm perspex and a thin smear of grease is all that is required. A bit messy but so be it. I have usd that dozens of times. I have have head supposedly 64CC chambers at 62 and as big as 67.
awesome trick with the snap gauge......I wonder if there would be room to use it with a check spring in place to make it less clumsy. Either that or do it with the head upside down.
Good video. More details about springs would be nice. Not much out there talking about it. One internet observation I've made is that when people strongly disagree with you (or anyone) it's often because they've watched other experts' videos that disagree. So it's a second-hand opinion. Truth be told, experts often disagree about subtleties, but usually agree it's not that big a deal. Always balance... Don't bother balancing... It's just different perspectives, both valid for their own reasons. Nothing to get frothed up about. Pick your poison and you'll be fine.
Those cheaper valve spring IH micrometers: You have to verify; normally the outer lip/edge is the accurate surface for the retainer to ride/contact. The inner lip usually shows +- .140” difference. Verify the differences with your calipers to find the difference. JD
@@goldsgarage8236 I want to machine a spacer to raise the inner surface up to the outer surface, but it’s somewhat application specific due to retainer types/sizes.
Those valve spring height micrometers, the scale is for with the retainer sitting on top of the tool. Not seated down inside the recess in the top of the tool. Therefore if the retainer sits down inside, you need to subtract the depth of the recess from the measurement on the scale. My Proform brand micrometers are the same.
That's because that style measurement tool has a .150 step at the top of the tool for a small retainer so depending on if you are in the step or on top it absolutely adds up to the measurement you would get If you look the way you did that measurement, your valve retainer is in the step which will drop it .150 which when added to the 1.725 and I seriously question that measurement due to the way you did it, it would give you the 1.880. The 1.880 is from the very top of the micrometer to the spring pad. Check it and you will see I am correct Nothing wrong with the tool just user error
That is a really nice number. congratulations. Did you have a machine shop bore with torque plate and Sunnen hone job? I have never seen 4-5% with my gauge. AG
Yep..most sell heads for reasons that are almost never good. Nobody buys titanium retainers for old iron heads...guy was a bs'er or got bs'ed himself I only buy new castings, port and assemble/test myself I trust nobody
The Upick junkyard LKQ raised their prices sky high lately in case people think a deal is found there . a pair of heads there is $700 and you have to remove them. and then if your in Canada , you'd have to add the exchange on top
Before the plandemic they had holiday sales. Literally 40 percent of anything on the lot. Now that prices are stupid high on their crap hardly anyone goes there anymore
@@BruceLee-xn3nn May as well buy from GM. Try cylinder head exchange or a local machine shop never know what they have sitting around. Quit junkyarding in the 80s when they only took late models...all the good stuff went to a lot they bought next door andwanted crazy money for parts. Everyone has something gold plated or so they think
I had a set of those heads i bought brand new put the engine together smoked like crazy when i let off the throttle pulled them off brought them to machine shop and the guides were way out of spec. Was a 2 year project so summit wouldn't cover it.
I use the same install height gauge and from the video you are using the incorrect gauge for the retainer. The retainer lip must rest on the top edge of the gauge all the way around not recessed. A simple fix is to use a valve spring shim with a ID of the same or slightly larger than the retainer top step ID. Then simply add the shim thickness to the measured install height for a correct reading. AS many retainers have different step ID`s this is the best method of using this tool. Don't try to balance the retainer edge on the tool lip as the retainer will deflect and give a error in reading. Also remeasure your valve spring pressure using your retainer as it holds the inner spring (if equipped) at a lower height (read as more pressure). Using a positive stop gauge for the desired install and open height will give you a better measurement of pressure than using the height gauge on the side of the compressor tool. Great video will check out your others.
Thanks Bad406. All good info. i especially like the idea of the positive stop gage. I will demo your advice on a future video. You are also correct about the retainer not being recessed. i did a follow up video about this, all said the micrometer is still off .050" AG
What are your thoughts on water pumps, stock, high flow, aluminum? Radiators? Fuel pumps, mechanical and electric? When is mechanical fine and electric become a better choice. Caburators, Holley style vs edelbrock, vs stock Rochester/Carter? Quality of distributors? Stock replacement/billet/HEI/coils/spark boxes?
Unless you are drag racing, I would stick with mechanical water pumps. Unless you have fuel injection which requires high fuel pressure, mechanical fuel pumps are a better choice mainly because they are more reliable. I use HEI 65K, 7500 RPM distributors from Amazon. They work great, probably purchased a dozen or so. If you were drag racing or stock car racing and very high RPM and high compression pressures, MSD would be required. Most all race cars use them. MSD (multiple Spark Discharge) main advantage is at low RPM and helps to prevent fouling spark plugs. I am more familiar with Holley carbs but have made the same power with Quadrajet in the same CFM range. Edelbrock is a knock off of the old Carter AFB carbs that were on many OEMs, GM and Mopar in the 60's and 70's. They work fine also. Aluminum rads are nice, not sure if they are more efficient. Hope this helps. AG
That spring height mic is more than likely reading exactly right. The diameter of the retainer you’re using is too small for that particular mic. I use that type of mic for setting spring heights in my shop. I have about 6 different sizes to accommodate various sizes.
The most complex part of our engines is... the oil. Think what petro-chemists do: formulate additive packages that protect at startup, then get better at normal operating temps - when the oil is thinner. If oil makers put out wear protection psi values vs temperature [and I wish they would], it would chart in an eyebrow like arc, wth the high end rolling over somewhere between 240 and 270 most cases.
I have a installed hight guage & I love mine! I dont remember what brand? Marroso maybey?? I know it measures from 1.400 to over 2" . I've seen some for sale that only measure to 1.800 or only down to 1.800. Those would be useless to me unless I had both. That is a hight that alot of my heads are at. I will say when I checked my hight guage with a caliper I found it reads .010 off. But since I know that, I made a new mark on mine & im able to read it reliably now.
Don't those O ring seals fail because they are installed incorrectly? If you install the seal and then install the retainer, the retainer will damage it. Install the spring, then the retainer and then compress the spring...... Only then slip the O-ring over the valve stem into it's groove. I need new seals on my antique '88 4.3 in my S10. I can't find the answer to what seal to use. Mine are stock springs with a shield. The Victor tech guy said to use Viton umbrella seals. I'm guessing that I shouldn't use both an O-ring and an umbrella........ especially in conjunction with the sheilded retainer. Won't umbrella seals along with my factory shields result in too little oil on the valve stem? I'm just trying to reduce oil flowing down the stems. I'm not doing a valve job with new bushings........ It could use a valve job at 290,000 miles but that's not happening. Do you think I can use factory spring shields and umbrella seals? ......or just O-rings since the guides are probably getting sloppy. Others say to use the
@@goldsgarage8236 That's probably best. If I was rebuilding them maybe I'd do something different. I'm just trying to keep it running until I come up with an alternative .....different engine or different truck. Your answer was my original thought....... when I began asking around I got a dozen answers, some saying not to bother with the exhaust side because they'll be destroyed by the heat. O rings it is. Thank you sir! 👍
I have been off the race seen for a little while let it go still built stuff for people but didn't fallow it aka advancements in tech also don't let the market and. There marketing control my build . I have not built a ford in 20 years bur it was the same model I'm building now I just got done turning a 2 bolt into a keyed 4 bolt main and 1/4 pour the block with all the blueprinting oil and casting.. I'm not a pro was taught buy one though. I started reading comp and other cam design papers to bring myself up to date with the reality of things we talked about back then ended up holding true with cam and spring design my biggest hurdle right now is I got a set of svo windsor heads to flow in the mid 250 s intake @ 600 201 on exaust at 600 I'm not sitting in front of the sheet i do have a flow bench it is older and works but have had issues with it I usually take a percentage of the numbers high and.low and use that number the heads were milled prior to me acquiring them supposedly angle.milled and .025 thousands I did cc one chamber before chamber work was done they came to 59.9 cc now there 64 cc flat top hyperutectic kb pistons with reliefs going to run the squish tight .028/030 valves are Ferrera 5000 1.95 int/ with a 30°bc 1.550 ex no bc Stock 302 stroke and rod length factory rods blueprinted shot peened arp hardware all lighten and balanced car has a vortex blower that can support 1100 I. Shooting for the 600 mark and would like to use a book cam not custom Dual pattern probably trick flow or ??? What cam would you look at and what would be your deciding factor
I was told I need to change my valve springs on my World Product S/R heads because I let it sit in my shop for a couple years without turning the engine over periodically. It has a solid roller 630 lift cam. It is basically a fresh build for drag racing,(355 SBC), just been sitting unused for a while. Is this a proper prognosis?
No you don't have to change your valve springs. Any stressed member like a valve spring, is not damaged by being stored in a stressed condition, as long as it is not stressed beyond its elastic limit. It makes no more sense than changing all the head bolts, connecting rod bolts and main bearing bolts, they were stored in a stressed condition also. Stressed parts can fail because they were stressed beyond their elastic limit, like when you over torque a bolt, or from fatigue, millions of cycles. Hope this helps. AG
Thanks Peter. I think there may be a difference in gauges and even air pressure. I have tested race engines built by top engine builders with my Moroso gauge and never seen 6%. The final test is the dyno and that usually works out pretty well. AG
I didn’t bother messaging him, what’s he gonna say? He’ll probably just chuckle and block me, he got his sale, I got the heads that will work for my setup thanks to Al’s work on them. He sells a lot of SBC parts and has been getting bad marketplace reviews by others recently on things “not being as advertised…” Learning lesson here for me 🤷🏻♂️
None of those things you checked matter if the heads are warped or cracked and you did mention you checked those things. Marketplace can be someplace you can find a deal or something rare but it can also be a dumping ground for junk.
.060 is HUGE error. Can it be calibrated? If it’s worth it. We use some Chinese calibrated indicators and calipers but they are all checked in calibration periodically. Japan and American is definitely better.
@@goldsgarage8236 I would appreciate your opinion on whether you thing a .060" overbore on a 400 is too much, making the cylinder walls too thin(?) On a side note, I tore apart a badly cracked 327 tonight. So after it was apart I took my grinder & V'd out one of the cracks about 10" long. Then I welded it closed with my Lincoln 180 welder! It WORKS!! Now I'm going to weld up my cracked 409!
Hudson flathead engines have high nickel blocks & heads. This makes then extreme hard so one does not need hardened seats. The seats just get cut into the block (valve in block design) even with today’s gas they work perfectly because they are so hard. I had a 40 Hudson head milled a few years back & the machinist was blown away, said he’d never seen a head as hard as this one.
New seal no seals both start with N prob was auto correct...not really lol, it blows my mind how many people are willing to lie, just to sell something. When I sell anything I'm always on the conservative side without talking it down, If I don't know something I just say hey i dont know if I do know of an issue I tell em. I know how it is to be on the buying side and It sucks to be lied to. I am a firm believer of treat people how you want to be treated. If the world went by that it would be a wildly different existence on this rock. I love SBC's I have fought the temptation to go LS platform don't know how much longer I can now I'm at the I have a worn nice warmed over 70s .030 bore 355 and have a worn stock bore 88 roller 350 in my basement. Or I can go pull a 5.3 out n jam it in my 92 c1500 and be done with it. But it would never be done because there's no way I would leave it alone and would want to do the typical stuff cam, springs, intake,headers ect. The stuff I already dumped in my sbc. Except after that the 5.3 would be easily over 400hp the SBC would definitely not be with the parts I have. But the SBC would be refreshed n new a cheap 5.3 would typically be well over 100k miles....
People on market place never answer their own ads its a miracle if they contact you waiting for 5 different people jegs is alot faster than the people who who post ads and never respond
Springs? When you start talking race springs too often the manufacturer specifies too light a spring. Crane recomended 125lb on the seat,, engine was all over at 7200. Used 140 lb on the seat , a supplier gave them to me and it was happy to 7500 and more. These heads with good moly retainers and spring seats all measured and shimmed. Ti are undoubtedly lighter but should be changed regularly as they work harden and crack and fail. Moly ones have 5 times the life.. I do not have a spring checker but use bathroom scales. Simply put a a square of 3/8 plate to spread the load, adjust to zero and use my workshop press. And either measure with the depth quage of the vernier or in some applications use a simple stop, eg 1.850. This is NOT good for solid roller springs open! OEM Chev installed height is 1.72, that by the book and in practice.
How much height do you think using a copper coat type of product on the head gaskets might add, or in essence take away from your desired quench height?
the original engineers had one criteria that any modern hot rodder can ignore: time and more constraints. "Out-smarting" means getting more out of the engine. Period. We don't have to be conservative. We don't have to worry about warranty claims bankrupting the company, or pissing off the shareholders. We can take as much time as we want to get the most flow, or as much lift or compression we want. We can choose what to sacrifice. And on top of all that we can dyno our one-off creations as many or as few times as we care to. There is no need to worry about thinking that the original engineers knew better. A toddler has more information at their fingers than kings did 100 years ago. And any old high school drop-out can "out smart" the original engineer if he takes enough time and has no accountants breathing down his neck. Forget about all the reverence for the original engineers and get on with testing and tuning!
Im sure this fell is a very nice guy but im not sure he’d be the guy I choose to build my racing engine 😳🤷🏼♂️. Maybe it’s just the videoing that causes him to be a bit “awkward” let’s just call it.. 🤦🏼
Yet another clueless Canadian mechanical video!!! Don't put all the blame on the seller, most of the blame goes to the buyer that didn't know what he looking at! As a machine shop owner please throw away all your Chinese tools/equipment!! Buy the correct equipment and that should also include a vacuum tester to check valve leakage!!! only a complete fool would bolt heads on a engine to check for valve leakage!!! CCing the combustion chamber sshould also to a degree show you the condition of the valve/valve seat. Also never trust anyone who is afraid to get dirty!!!
The video is about the heads not the blue engine and what you are doing with it. Not about what you tube is doing either so please stop begging for views and subscribers stay on the point of the video.
Iam not going to subscribe to someone who has less experience and knowledge than me if you can't bench race with me i can't listen to your lack of experience
been a subscriber for a while now. here is a fun fact. there are more than 100 million of them produced. that's 1 for every 3 people in the US. also, they are about 25-28 inches long inches from bellhousing flange to water pump pully depending on if you have the short pump or the long pump. if you lined them up end to end it would stretch over 40,000 miles, around the earth more than 1.7 times. or from LA to NYC over 14 times. to the best of my knowledge world Products offered the S/R head in 3 different chamber sizes. a 58 cc, 67 cc and 76 cc. they are ok heads. better than most factory heads, but the Fast Burn and Vortec heads are better. I build Big Block Chevys for restorations and drag boats as a hobby. but I occasionally build small block for Restations or mild hot rods. my current project is a kind of a "Day 2" restoration for a 71 SS 396 Camaro. factory numbers matching engine, but with a bigger cam, vintage Cal customs valve covers, and set of vintage Ansen Sprint rims. even has a working vintage 8 track tape and Led Zepplin volume 4 tape.
Lots of information. Thanks Shad. AG
Dude. I can see the look when you’re taking it out and, just like that, you push the 8-track in…
Hilarious time warp!
Like back in the day.
Awesome.
Im a 17%'er, Keep up the real world investagative forensic engine work, Bust em and expose em.
Thanks for subscribing Michael. AG
Another great informational video. Thanks Allen. By the way, that Lincoln in the back ground is bad to the bone. It will handle everything from exhaust to framework. It's expensive but worth every penny. Thank again Allen....
Thanks Brandon. Agreed! AG
A good welder is essential when you are racing. AG
A more accurate way ( I think anyway ) to check the accuracy of a valve spring height mic is to use a micrometer. You can get past the lip that locates the retainer and get a real reading on the accuracy. I have never cared for snap gauges ( yes I do have a set ) due to variations in the readings. There are too many variables with a snap gauge. Make it tight enough, are you actually perpendicular to the retainer, is the retainer fully seated, etc. With a height mic you eliminate most of those variables and you can make sure the retainers are seated. Just my opinion, but I do like your vids...........
I agree with your comment.
Thanks John, lots of interest in the micrometer so more to come about that. Thanks for the endorsement. AG
To keep from cutting the O ring seals compress the spring then install the seal and gently push it down the valve into the groove with a pocket screwdriver then install the locks.
Thanks for the information Tx. AG
The proper way to install the O ring factory seals, is to put them on after you compress the springs, but like you said you need to run the oil shields along w the O ring. When you release the spring the seal is compressed inside the retainer.
That is correct Racer, thanks for your comment. AG
I heard years ago that you don't want to run both kinds of seals at the same time because, the valve won't get enough lubrication. I used Pontiac "umbrella seals on several sbc motors. While I'm here, I have some '58 Pontiac heads that have holes drilled in the sides of the heads that go straight in to the valve guides. Any idea why they did this? There are small raised bosses where the holes are. It's only the intakes that are drilled.
Ebay is just 1 big scam at this point. At least in Canada.
Been off ebay at least 10 yrs. Got new heads intakes, $$ items to sell but worried about someone pulling a fast one on me trying to get free parts. Moved to a rural area and zero responses...no money out here.
Excellent job … Thank you Allan for the WISDOM along with sharing your knowledge and experiences! 😉👍🏻
Thanks Jimmy. AG
Concerning the valve height mic, you have to subtract the depth of the recess in the top of the tool. Most are .150.
Thanks Jake, but on mine it is off .050" , 1/2 turn. AG
To install the Chevy O ring seals, compress the valve spring with the retainer on top. Then work the seal down to its groove, a bit of a pain. Then the keepers can be installed and the seal will not be damaged.
But positive seals on the guides work much better.
That is correct Dale, done many stock Chevies that way in the past. Not fun. AG
Port flow will trump any small changes in SCR.
Cylinder heads 99.44% of the time come with larger chambers than advertised; this is called the Serviceability margin.
Measuring a chamber without a plate will result in a higher/larger cc due to the “dome” of the fluid extending above the deck surface.
Got it, thanks AG
A bit of 3mm perspex and a thin smear of grease is all that is required. A bit messy but so be it. I have usd that dozens of times. I have have head supposedly 64CC chambers at 62 and as big as 67.
awesome trick with the snap gauge......I wonder if there would be room to use it with a check spring in place to make it less clumsy. Either that or do it with the head upside down.
Thanks Yuri, I might try that. AG
Good video. More details about springs would be nice. Not much out there talking about it.
One internet observation I've made is that when people strongly disagree with you (or anyone) it's often because they've watched other experts' videos that disagree. So it's a second-hand opinion. Truth be told, experts often disagree about subtleties, but usually agree it's not that big a deal. Always balance... Don't bother balancing... It's just different perspectives, both valid for their own reasons. Nothing to get frothed up about. Pick your poison and you'll be fine.
Thanks 100, good perspective, appreciate that. I will try to do more about springs in the future. AG
Right from the get go I really doubted titanium retainers, keep up the good information.
Me too David. On the next video i will demo some big block titanium retainers, 19grams. AG
Those cheaper valve spring IH micrometers: You have to verify; normally the outer lip/edge is the accurate surface for the retainer to ride/contact. The inner lip usually shows +- .140” difference. Verify the differences with your calipers to find the difference. JD
Thanks Headflow. I will do a little demo on this in a future video. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 I want to machine a spacer to raise the inner surface up to the outer surface, but it’s somewhat application specific due to retainer types/sizes.
Those valve spring height micrometers, the scale is for with the retainer sitting on top of the tool. Not seated down inside the recess in the top of the tool.
Therefore if the retainer sits down inside, you need to subtract the depth of the recess from the measurement on the scale.
My Proform brand micrometers are the same.
Thanks Pockets. AG
Use the depth function of your calipers to check installed height. Use a checking spring to do this. 100% accurate. Not a bore guage,aka snap guage
Sure, that will work, thanks for the tip. AG
That's because that style measurement tool has a .150 step at the top of the tool for a small retainer so depending on if you are in the step or on top it absolutely adds up to the measurement you would get
If you look the way you did that measurement, your valve retainer is in the step which will drop it .150 which when added to the 1.725 and I seriously question that measurement due to the way you did it, it would give you the 1.880.
The 1.880 is from the very top of the micrometer to the spring pad. Check it and you will see I am correct
Nothing wrong with the tool just user error
Thanks Brian, you are at least partly correct. I will do a follow up on this in my next video. AG
I'd love to see your process of cam installation including decreeing etc.... I'm new here, love what I 've seen so far! Thanks !
Thanks Dave. Too late for this one. i have demonstrated cam degreeing on previous videos. I will try to work it into a future video. AG
If I watch anybody's channel regularly I subscribe!
Thanks so much Ross. AG
Me too..
I have built many 327 and 350 street engines with cast-iron moly coated rings they all were within 4 to 5 % leak down they were left 10 to one comp
That is a really nice number. congratulations. Did you have a machine shop bore with torque plate and Sunnen hone job? I have never seen 4-5% with my gauge. AG
Buy all David Vizard books. That's all you need to know lol😂
For sure Roger. Thanks AG
I like 7% on my race engine... once it is heated up it should be less leak down. My valve spring installed mic works well and correct...
Thanks Leonard, I don't think I have ever seen 7% average, maybe a cylinder here and there. AG
Ok, subscribed now after enjoying a few videos. Good info and especially on the tools and parts cautions, we have experienced the same at our shop. :)
Thanks for the comment Jimmy. AG
Anxious to see how those S/R heads work.
Thanks Gary, we will find out soon, I will let you know when we have a dyno day. AG
Needs porting. Weiss flow charts have them way low on flow
This is a valuable channel; I am really enjoying learning from your videos! I definitely subscribed.
Thanks so much Scott. AG
I use one of those screw type mics But I take it off and measure it with calipers instead of trusting its numbers
Thanks Pontiac, more to come about the micrometer. AG
I believe what you said about the ad on those heads. Titanium retainers are around $300+... AG.
Correct Leonard, or more in $CAN. AG
Yep..most sell heads for reasons that are almost never good.
Nobody buys titanium retainers for old iron heads...guy was a bs'er or got bs'ed himself
I only buy new castings, port and assemble/test myself I trust nobody
The Upick junkyard LKQ raised their prices sky high lately in case people think a deal is found there . a pair of heads there is $700 and you have to remove them. and then if your in Canada , you'd have to add the exchange on top
Thanks for the info @91. The cost of hot rodding is going up like everything else. You have to be diligent and resourceful. AG
Before the plandemic they had holiday sales. Literally 40 percent of anything on the lot. Now that prices are stupid high on their crap hardly anyone goes there anymore
@@BruceLee-xn3nn May as well buy from GM. Try cylinder head exchange or a local machine shop never know what they have sitting around.
Quit junkyarding in the 80s when they only took late models...all the good stuff went to a lot they bought next door andwanted crazy money for parts. Everyone has something gold plated or so they think
I'd like to see a video after the 406 sells stating what it sold for versus cost to build and thoughts overall.
Thanks Kd. It was an expensive build even though I got a good deal on the block. AG
I had a set of those heads i bought brand new put the engine together smoked like crazy when i let off the throttle pulled them off brought them to machine shop and the guides were way out of spec. Was a 2 year project so summit wouldn't cover it.
Sorry to hear that. Thanks for the info.AG
I use the same install height gauge and from the video you are using the incorrect gauge for the retainer. The retainer lip must rest on the top edge of the gauge all the way around not recessed. A simple fix is to use a valve spring shim with a ID of the same or slightly larger than the retainer top step ID. Then simply add the shim thickness to the measured install height for a correct reading. AS many retainers have different step ID`s this is the best method of using this tool. Don't try to balance the retainer edge on the tool lip as the retainer will deflect and give a error in reading. Also remeasure your valve spring pressure using your retainer as it holds the inner spring (if equipped) at a lower height (read as more pressure). Using a positive stop gauge for the desired install and open height will give you a better measurement of pressure than using the height gauge on the side of the compressor tool. Great video will check out your others.
Thanks Bad406. All good info. i especially like the idea of the positive stop gage. I will demo your advice on a future video. You are also correct about the retainer not being recessed. i did a follow up video about this, all said the micrometer is still off .050" AG
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸..
Thanks Patrick from USA. AG
You can check the installed height with a 6" machinist scale and be ok...
Thanks Leonard. Yes you can, shims only come .015" min anyway. AG
What are your thoughts on water pumps, stock, high flow, aluminum? Radiators? Fuel pumps, mechanical and electric? When is mechanical fine and electric become a better choice. Caburators, Holley style vs edelbrock, vs stock Rochester/Carter? Quality of distributors? Stock replacement/billet/HEI/coils/spark boxes?
Unless you are drag racing, I would stick with mechanical water pumps. Unless you have fuel injection which requires high fuel pressure, mechanical fuel pumps are a better choice mainly because they are more reliable. I use HEI 65K, 7500 RPM distributors from Amazon. They work great, probably purchased a dozen or so. If you were drag racing or stock car racing and very high RPM and high compression pressures, MSD would be required. Most all race cars use them.
MSD (multiple Spark Discharge) main advantage is at low RPM and helps to prevent fouling spark plugs.
I am more familiar with Holley carbs but have made the same power with Quadrajet in the same CFM range. Edelbrock is a knock off of the old Carter AFB carbs that were on many OEMs, GM and Mopar in the 60's and 70's. They work fine also.
Aluminum rads are nice, not sure if they are more efficient.
Hope this helps. AG
That spring height mic is more than likely reading exactly right. The diameter of the retainer you’re using is too small for that particular mic.
I use that type of mic for setting spring heights in my shop. I have about 6 different sizes to accommodate various sizes.
Thanks Hugh. I will demo this in the next video soon. Ag
The most complex part of our engines is... the oil. Think what petro-chemists do: formulate additive packages that protect at startup, then get better at normal operating temps - when the oil is thinner. If oil makers put out wear protection psi values vs temperature [and I wish they would], it would chart in an eyebrow like arc, wth the high end rolling over somewhere between 240 and 270 most cases.
Thanks for your comment Flinch. You have put a lot of thought into this. I agree that we kind of take oil for granted. AG
I have a installed hight guage & I love mine! I dont remember what brand? Marroso maybey?? I know it measures from 1.400 to over 2" . I've seen some for sale that only measure to 1.800 or only down to 1.800. Those would be useless to me unless I had both. That is a hight that alot of my heads are at. I will say when I checked my hight guage with a caliper I found it reads .010 off. But since I know that, I made a new mark on mine & im able to read it reliably now.
Excuse me, I looked at my hight guage & it goes down to 1.600 & up to 2.200.
Thanks Jesse. After playing with it, looks like it is off exactly 1/2 turn, .050" AG
have to subtract the retainer depth of the height mic for a true reading. they're meant to have the retainer on the outside edge.
Thanks 39, good suggestion but it still doesn't work out. Looks like it is off by 1/2 turn, .050" AG
@@goldsgarage8236 oof then that one is a pos.
😢😮where u get stainless 015 head gaskets
Thanks Jim. Mike sources them for me, pretty sure it was Summit. Mike, please confirm. Thanks AG
I may have missed it, what were the specs on valve guide readings? Since all the advertisement specs were wrong, Did it have the 2.002 intake valves?
Yes it did have 2.02" intakes, and they were SS, I did mention this on a later video. AG
Don't those O ring seals fail because they are installed incorrectly? If you install the seal and then install the retainer, the retainer will damage it.
Install the spring, then the retainer and then compress the spring...... Only then slip the O-ring over the valve stem into it's groove.
I need new seals on my antique '88 4.3 in my S10.
I can't find the answer to what seal to use.
Mine are stock springs with a shield.
The Victor tech guy said to use Viton umbrella seals. I'm guessing that I shouldn't use both an O-ring and an umbrella........ especially in conjunction with the sheilded retainer.
Won't umbrella seals along with my factory shields result in too little oil on the valve stem?
I'm just trying to reduce oil flowing down the stems. I'm not doing a valve job with new bushings........ It could use a valve job at 290,000 miles but that's not happening.
Do you think I can use factory spring shields and umbrella seals?
......or just O-rings since the guides are probably getting sloppy.
Others say to use the
You are correct about the installation Randy. Why not use the original O-rings with the Shields? They work pretty well on millions of OEMs. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 That's probably best. If I was rebuilding them maybe I'd do something different. I'm just trying to keep it running until I come up with an alternative .....different engine or different truck.
Your answer was my original thought....... when I began asking around I got a dozen answers, some saying not to bother with the exhaust side because they'll be destroyed by the heat. O rings it is. Thank you sir! 👍
I just turn the heads with the valves up and put fluid in them and come back the next day and see which ports are wet.
That works. Thanks for the tip. AG
Love the videos subscribed two pointers better audio ,,, is GMC YOUR ONLY BUILDS KRRP UP GOOD WORK AUDIO IS LOW AT TIME
Thanks Vin. i would be happy to do a Mopar or Ford if someone wants one. We will work on the audio. AG
I have been off the race seen for a little while let it go still built stuff for people but didn't fallow it aka advancements in tech also don't let the market and. There marketing control my build . I have not built a ford in 20 years bur it was the same model I'm building now I just got done turning a 2 bolt into a keyed 4 bolt main and 1/4 pour the block with all the blueprinting oil and casting.. I'm not a pro was taught buy one though. I started reading comp and other cam design papers to bring myself up to date with the reality of things we talked about back then ended up holding true with cam and spring design my biggest hurdle right now is I got a set of svo windsor heads to flow in the mid 250 s intake @ 600 201 on exaust at 600 I'm not sitting in front of the sheet i do have a flow bench it is older and works but have had issues with it I usually take a percentage of the numbers high and.low and use that number the heads were milled prior to me acquiring them supposedly angle.milled and .025 thousands I did cc one chamber before chamber work was done they came to 59.9 cc now there 64 cc flat top hyperutectic kb pistons with reliefs going to run the squish tight .028/030 valves are Ferrera 5000 1.95 int/ with a 30°bc 1.550 ex no bc
Stock 302 stroke and rod length factory rods blueprinted shot peened arp hardware all lighten and balanced car has a vortex blower that can support 1100 I. Shooting for the 600 mark and would like to use a book cam not custom
Dual pattern probably trick flow or ??? What cam would you look at and what would be your deciding factor
I was told I need to change my valve springs on my World Product S/R heads because I let it sit in my shop for a couple years without turning the engine over periodically. It has a solid roller 630 lift cam. It is basically a fresh build for drag racing,(355 SBC), just been sitting unused for a while. Is this a proper prognosis?
No you don't have to change your valve springs. Any stressed member like a valve spring, is not damaged by being stored in a stressed condition, as long as it is not stressed beyond its elastic limit. It makes no more sense than changing all the head bolts, connecting rod bolts and main bearing bolts, they were stored in a stressed condition also.
Stressed parts can fail because they were stressed beyond their elastic limit, like when you over torque a bolt, or from fatigue, millions of cycles. Hope this helps. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Correct...too much heat, float will kill em not sitting
Great information and video Alan
Thank you Justin. More to come. AG
Not sure how you figure anything above 6% cold is good but anyway if that's your standard good luck with it.
Thanks Peter. I think there may be a difference in gauges and even air pressure. I have tested race engines built by top engine builders with my Moroso gauge and never seen 6%. The final test is the dyno and that usually works out pretty well. AG
Way too much leakage,but ok for a street wngine
The leak down doesn't seem to account for the rings.
First pour liquid in the ports and see if the valves leak...
You must have a lot of piston to head clearance to use such a thin head gasket AG...
About .035" deck. AG
What did the seller say when he was exposed?
Good question Cuzz. Not sure if he knows. Maybe Roland can weigh in on this. AG
I didn’t bother messaging him, what’s he gonna say? He’ll probably just chuckle and block me, he got his sale, I got the heads that will work for my setup thanks to Al’s work on them. He sells a lot of SBC parts and has been getting bad marketplace reviews by others recently on things “not being as advertised…”
Learning lesson here for me 🤷🏻♂️
@@SQUARDUP84I was curious.
None of those things you checked matter if the heads are warped or cracked and you did mention you checked those things. Marketplace can be someplace you can find a deal or something rare but it can also be a dumping ground for junk.
The heads were not warped or cracked. Thanks Stoney. AG
So were the valves 2.02 stainless?
Yes, I missed that in this video but i did cover it in a later video. AG
.060 is HUGE error. Can it be calibrated? If it’s worth it. We use some Chinese calibrated indicators and calipers but they are all checked in calibration periodically. Japan and American is definitely better.
Thanks Gary, I will do a little demo on this in the next video. AG
No seals?
Titanium is non magnetic AG...
Correct, although I didn't think of that. Thanks for reminding me. AG
Especially if they give good information
Thanks Ross. AG
Thank you Alan!
Your quite welcome K. More to come. Ag
Myths? You mean like the "High Nickel" SBC blocks?? I recently saw a guy selling an orange 454 high nickel block on marketplace, lol..
Yeah some brag a big deal about that nickel stuff. All the old Mopar engines were high nickel. Nothing special about nickel blocks
Thanks alleyoop. I will have to do some research on this. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 That would be very cool if you did!
I was thinking you would probably have an interest in the topic. 🤔
@@goldsgarage8236 I would appreciate your opinion on whether you thing a .060" overbore on a 400 is too much, making the cylinder walls too thin(?)
On a side note, I tore apart a badly cracked 327 tonight. So after it was apart I took my grinder & V'd out one of the cracks about 10" long. Then I welded it closed with my Lincoln 180 welder! It WORKS!! Now I'm going to weld up my cracked 409!
Hudson flathead engines have high nickel blocks & heads. This makes then extreme hard so one does not need hardened seats. The seats just get cut into the block (valve in block design) even with today’s gas they work perfectly because they are so hard. I had a 40 Hudson head milled a few years back & the machinist was blown away, said he’d never seen a head as hard as this one.
So is aluminum retainers...
Correct. AG
New seal no seals both start with N prob was auto correct...not really lol, it blows my mind how many people are willing to lie, just to sell something. When I sell anything I'm always on the conservative side without talking it down, If I don't know something I just say hey i dont know if I do know of an issue I tell em. I know how it is to be on the buying side and It sucks to be lied to. I am a firm believer of treat people how you want to be treated. If the world went by that it would be a wildly different existence on this rock. I love SBC's I have fought the temptation to go LS platform don't know how much longer I can now I'm at the I have a worn nice warmed over 70s .030 bore 355 and have a worn stock bore 88 roller 350 in my basement. Or I can go pull a 5.3 out n jam it in my 92 c1500 and be done with it. But it would never be done because there's no way I would leave it alone and would want to do the typical stuff cam, springs, intake,headers ect. The stuff I already dumped in my sbc. Except after that the 5.3 would be easily over 400hp the SBC would definitely not be with the parts I have. But the SBC would be refreshed n new a cheap 5.3 would typically be well over 100k miles....
Thanks for taking the time and your comments and info Budget. AG.
People on market place never answer their own ads its a miracle if they contact you waiting for 5 different people jegs is alot faster than the people who who post ads and never respond
Subscribed
Thanks for subscribing Dennis. AG
Springs? When you start talking race springs too often the manufacturer specifies too light a spring. Crane recomended 125lb on the seat,, engine was all over at 7200. Used 140 lb on the seat , a supplier gave them to me and it was happy to 7500 and more. These heads with good moly retainers and spring seats all measured and shimmed. Ti are undoubtedly lighter but should be changed regularly as they work harden and crack and fail. Moly ones have 5 times the life..
I do not have a spring checker but use bathroom scales. Simply put a a square of 3/8 plate to spread the load, adjust to zero and use my workshop press. And either measure with the depth quage of the vernier or in some applications use a simple stop, eg 1.850. This is NOT good for solid roller springs open!
OEM Chev installed height is 1.72, that by the book and in practice.
Thanks @ldn. Lots of great information here. AG
68👍's up GG thank you for sharing 😅
Thanks Scott. AG
How much height do you think using a copper coat type of product on the head gaskets might add, or in essence take away from your desired quench height?
Thanks 1HotRod. I should make no difference at all. AG
Subscribed !😀
Thanks for subscribing Dennis. Lots of content to come. AG
New subscriber
Thanks for watching and subscribing Todd. AG
S/r just stock replacement sbc heads
did you sell the sbc 400 yet
Still for sale. 226-980-7499
Do people still mess with small block Chevys, LS has killed them off, its the Era of the Chevy LS and Fords Coyote and the Turbo and supercharger
Thanks for your comment Nikkula. All those engines are technically better, but the SBC is still the most popular engine in the world. Ask Summit! AG
Thats probably what the machine shop sold him and what he paid for
the original engineers had one criteria that any modern hot rodder can ignore: time and more constraints. "Out-smarting" means getting more out of the engine. Period. We don't have to be conservative. We don't have to worry about warranty claims bankrupting the company, or pissing off the shareholders. We can take as much time as we want to get the most flow, or as much lift or compression we want. We can choose what to sacrifice. And on top of all that we can dyno our one-off creations as many or as few times as we care to. There is no need to worry about thinking that the original engineers knew better. A toddler has more information at their fingers than kings did 100 years ago. And any old high school drop-out can "out smart" the original engineer if he takes enough time and has no accountants breathing down his neck. Forget about all the reverence for the original engineers and get on with testing and tuning!
All good points Moe. Thanks for contributing. AG
Im sure this fell is a very nice guy but im not sure he’d be the guy I choose to build my racing engine 😳🤷🏼♂️. Maybe it’s just the videoing that causes him to be a bit “awkward” let’s just call it.. 🤦🏼
My subscribe list was o long i spent a whole day going through unsubscribing 80 percent if it, cause i dont wtch them. Forget stupid subscribe.
squirrell
Good eye Claus! Ag
@@goldsgarage8236 .....now I'm going to have to watch it again. 😁
30:09 🐿️
God damn swallowing noise.
You subscribe to every channel you watch one vid on youd never bother using the subscribe list. Subscribe is a horrible idea.
Yet another clueless Canadian mechanical video!!! Don't put all the blame on the seller, most of the blame goes to the buyer that didn't know what he looking at! As a machine shop owner please throw away all your Chinese tools/equipment!! Buy the correct equipment and that should also include a vacuum tester to check valve leakage!!! only a complete fool would bolt heads on a engine to check for valve leakage!!! CCing the combustion chamber sshould also to a degree show you the condition of the valve/valve seat. Also never trust anyone who is afraid to get dirty!!!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING
The video is about the heads not the blue engine and what you are doing with it.
Not about what you tube is doing either so please stop begging for views and subscribers stay on the point of the video.
Do not buy parts online cause theyre from china
Thanks for the comment. AG
Iam not going to subscribe to someone who has less experience and knowledge than me if you can't bench race with me i can't listen to your lack of experience
Talk less more action = more subs - you talk to much with no substance
Didn’t show valve seal🥲
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