I'm not transgender, but I can't believe that transgender people would judge those who regret it or don't want to transition anymore. They act as if it's some kind of threat to them. Maybe it's a frightening concept to them, so they try to shove those people out of the community? I think it should be spoken about more. Nobody deserves to be told who or what they are or are not. And then it may let people know that you don't have to transition in any way but the way YOU want to. Maybe some trans people are frightened of surgery, or hormones, it doesn't mean they aren't trans. Chris Crocker spoke about this topic and got alot of abuse too. He says he's trans but hasn't transitioned... and there are many people like that in the world. It saddens me to know a community wanting justice has people who deliver injustice to many also. Open your minds people! Everyone deserves to be happy and who they are.
+Zelda Zonkin' It is a threat. It makes cispeople who believe we're all mentally ill believe it all the more strongly. It makes cis people believe it's a phase. Not to say that people detransitioning should be kicked out or receive hate. They deserve to be true to themselves and receive the love and respect they're due as human beings. The reason it's taboo, is the mentally ill/just a phase fear we have. and it's well justified.
+Zelda Zonkin' you HAVE to transition to be trans. trans is short for transition for fucks sake. detransitioners completely fuck everything up and make people actually think its a phase and that it's something people can choose to do for fun.
I don't see why anyone would have a serious problem with a family member/friend or even anyone detransitioning. As long as it makes the person happy, then all should be fine and well for the others. There is always a positive side to everything in my opinion.
+Shaun To be SURE of something is completely inhuman and utopic. You can't be 100% sure of anything. Trans people do their best trying to know if transitioning is what they really want, but sometimes people change their minds.
I hope there comes a time when there is no need to come out AS something. That puts so much pressure on the person to limit themselves in the future. People should be allowed to date who they want and act/dress/surgically change themselves to make them happy, without having to define the meaning of it to everyone.
EXACTLY!! I think the main reason some people dislike the transitioning/detransitioning thing is just the UPKEEP of it. I mean, it's not only exhausting to constantly have to check your pronouns (a fault of our language not the individual) but to have to keep tabs on someone else's identity when you can barely pin down your own, it's like walking on eggshells. Can't I just address you as, "hey awesome person I have prior history with, I see you changed your __________ (hair, clothes, nails, skin, eyes, clothes, name, genitals, etc), I still love and respect you in whatever form you've decided to take on today!" :) I always try to be loving and open to everyone, but I honestly think people wouldn't feel the need to transition if there were no hard and fast rules about what is or isn't "male" or "female." Luckily I think that is changing, and slowly but surely we are being more and more of a unisex culture. Until there are no more genders, people won't truly be free to be their 100% true selves. There is this awesome Alice in Wonderland quote I love that roughly goes, "Who are you?" "Well I can't tell you who I am, you see, because I don't know! I must have changed 10 times since breakfast!"
What do you mean by "until there are no more genders"? You say you want people to be free to be their true selves, and I want that too. But if someone uses that freedom to identify his/her true self as being male, or female, isn't that a manifestation of gender? How do we "end genders", without forcing everyone to identify as non-binary-queers? I think we need gender. We need categories and words that describe specific things, in order to analyze, describe, and act upon the world. I think it is a positive thing that we realize gender is based on biological characteristics of the two sexes, but is not physically dependent on it. A man can act feminine, and a woman can act manly. But getting rid of gender all together, and the descriptive function it serves in language and in our lives, doesn't seem very practical to me. If I see a woman that is very masculine, and I want to point that fact out as an observation, how will I articulate it without using the word "masculine"? The fact that the way people express their gender is a spectrum, does not mean gender does not exist. I think people are underestimating a little bit the degree upon which we depend on the gender archetypes. And yes, the social construct side of it is huge, and very important, but I also think the biological side is being a bit underestimated too. The reason most people identify as cis-gender, is because of society and how it is constructed, yes, but also because biologically we have certain predispositions to either side of the gender spectrum. Males to the masculine, females to the feminine. Is that a bad thing? Should we use science to make our biological sex non-binary? Is nature sexist? I don't know. Its all very confusing. No wonder people are fighting each other over this.
I'm pretty sure that if we teach people what transgender and non-binary are, then less people will choose to transition once they realize the binary genders are not the only genders that exist.
I think one reason is because people derive a lot of motivation and inspiration from the people they look up to around them. So if someone who is in the early stages of transitioning looks up to someone else who has already transitioned, detransitioning might make the person that looked up to them feel betrayed. which is stupid and selfish, of course, but people are like this and feel other people owe them the things that they want from them haha. i agree with everything stated in this video. people change, they evolve, they discover new things. and all the power to them for it
Consider this: The more gender-identity is recognised as a mere phase, the more difficult it will be made for young transgenders to start treatment. One person's doubt-elimination therapy is another person's hell.
It's only a phase for some. Just as some people are less fluid about their sexuality during certain parts of their loves and some have a lifelong sexuality.
You guys are awesome for approaching these topics in such a calm cool way! I think a lot of people feel indirectly threatened when people "go back" because it seems to invalidate the LGBT community. I also think people get way too attached to certain concepts and labels and things, and hold on to the idea that "this is how it's SUPPOSED to be", when really, everyone has their own mind and most people don't fully know their own mind, and society is changing all the time, so ANYTHING can happen. Movements can just totally change. Like maybe in a few generations "trans" won't even be a thing because gender roles will have been done away with and nobody will even associate boobs with dresses and penises with construction work or whatever. (Maybe, I said MAYBE. *waits for the attack dogs*) But that doesn't mean it isn't an important thing today, because people DO associate things with things, and people who don't fit those things would have to live their whole lives in discomfort, so trans has a purpose currently.
I hope no attack dogs come ;) But in any case, I definitely understand what you're saying here. Now that I'm older and reflect upon my gender identity (realizing it's all a social construct, realizing everyone can be whomever they are, gender wise, expression wise, etc) I used to wonder - "hey. Maybe I could have just not taken hormones or had top surgery, still identified as a boy and still be recognized as that because everything is so fluid." and absolutely - totally could have done that. But the issue was not having others see me as the boy I was (and am.) It was me being able to feel comfortable in my body. It wasn't "Hey, I like that man's body - those pecs, that penis - so I'm going to get that and the world will see me as a man too!" It was more "Wow, I really don't feel comfortable having breasts. I'm never going to use them. Jeezums!" and "Wow, I really would love for my voice to be lower. And for my body fat to redistribute. I think taking Testosterone will really ease my dysphoria about my body." So that's why I made those choices. I know soooo many transfolk who choose no-T, no-op and I'm just so happy for them - they can live as themselves, have the world recognize them for their identity (hopefully, cmon world, you gotta!) and feel good in their body without altering it permanently. For me, I felt a need to physically alter myself to be comfortable. So it goes a bit deeper than just gender roles, more onto the personal identity rather than social identity :)
thanks for covering this topic ! i really believe that gender and sexuality are very personal things, and if a person decides to move around inside the spectrum a little, thats their deal, and no one can tell them theyre wrong or "wasnt gay/trans/whatever" in the first place, because thats literally not your problem.
***** hey calm down. I cant speak for everyone, im sure some people transition and find out it was a mistake years later, but some people do detransition for other reasons. It could be health problems or wanting kids etc. That doesnt de-legitimize them being trans or otherwise. You cant walk around deciding for pople whether theyre trans or not. It's not your job, and I dont see why the fuck you care anyway. Row your own damn boat.
aypierre thank you, so much for that. the last part of it to be exact. 1,000x yes. whenever ANYONE around me says "Oh, he's gay and he just doesn't know it yet" or that I am not bisexual because I am dating a man. (do you know what bisexual even means?) ...I just tell people that their identy is up to them to decide and, that, they are the only ones who truly know how they feel...so in order to treat others' with decent respect, you should just let them decide their own sexuality, refer to them as what they prefer and worry about your own life.
I came out as male to many people (pre-medical transition) about 9 months after I discovered this world of genders, as I always felt out of place as a female. I'm very grateful I did not rush into a medical transition because now I identify much more comfortably as a genderqueer/non-binary person. I still will probably get top surgery sometime in the future because I can't imagine not binding my chest. Thank you for covering this topic :)
That's so great to hear a bit of your story! I always encourage folks not to rush into medically transitioning - simply because we all do change. I'm glad to hear you are feeling good with your identity! :D
This is so inspiring. Thank you both SO much for being so open and amazing! I love the idea that, in the future, gender/sexuality may become something taken for granted as NATURALLY FLUID throughout any given person's lifetime
It's stuff like this that make me afraid for really young people who go on hormones right away. I think a person really needs to explore themselves and grow as an individual before ever making the decision to change who that individual might actually be. Jumping into things like that can have really horrible psychological and medical health complications.
WiseFool it does accentuate physical traits that belong to their biological sex of the trans individual which as we know creates a huge dysphoria once transitioning
According to massive studies in the Netherlands, a liberal nation that pioneered hormone therapy in children, only 20% of seriously gender dysphoric kids remain gender dysphoric after puberty. The rest accept their natal sex and are typically simply gay. However, hormone blockers prevent that from happening and reinforce a trans identity that likely would've have disappeared. Gender is a social construct. It varies across cultures and over time. So why are we permanently changing bodies to conform to a social construct? Why, instead, aren't we changing society to better accept gay and/or gender non-conforming persons?
There is a very specific reason why detransitioning or "going straight" bothers the LGBT community so much (and also explains why bisexuals are often not taken seriously). The primary defense and rhetoric of the LGBT community has been "this is how we are, we cannot change it, we can't change who we identify as, and we can't change who we are attracted to." The line, "living as your authentic self," reflects this sentiment, making the broad statement that once you come out and accept yourself and live as a trans person or homosexual, you finally are being authentic. There are many of us who came from a very real, very scary, dark place thinking that we were abominations for wanting to change gender or liking the same sex, and we had to listen to a lot of science and social support before we came out and stopped hating ourselves. This comes from what I dubbed 1st Wave LGBT Activism. Pre-activism attitudes were when the LGBT community knew about LGBT, but we kept it to ourselves and secret, if we even practiced it at all. 2nd Wave LGBT Activism has more of a "be who you wanna be and screw what others' think" attitude, and tends to be much more fluid. 1st Wave and 2nd Wave LGBT Activism are often at odds idealistically, but 2nd Wave LGBT Activism has experienced a lot more support, so much so, that there are members of our community today who see no reason to associate directly with the LGBT community at large, let alone be participants in LGBT Activism.
love this colab!! Skye and Arielle you are awesome people. Thank you for bringing these topics out in the open. It has helped my understand the trans community a lot better!!
...Skylar is SO hot. To answer your question, I think the reason de-transitioning is so frowned upon is because the transgender community, in this day and age, is still under a lot of scrutiny. To transition just once in the first place takes a significant amount of commitment and self-assurance and to go back on that commitment almost reinforces the beliefs of those who oppose transgender individuals. Personally, I identify as somewhat bigender and slightly gender fluid but I'm completely comfortable with my body and the pronouns associated with it. From my perspective, however, the thought of someone de-transitioning after the seemingly tumultuous process of transitioning in the first place seems not only like a waste of effort (and income), but also irresponsible. I feel this way particularly about those who have already undergone reassignment surgery (although, I don't actually know how commonly this occurs). I understand that people undergo mental and emotional changes constantly but every surgical alteration to the physical body has a cumulative effect that isn't always reparable. Personally, I don't feel that whatever changes one may be going through internally is worth putting their body through that much trauma. You only get one body after all.
Arielle I so so appreciate what u had to say on this subject, I've been trans for five years and now I'm realizing that I'm a cis girl, and I'm pretty scared about it. But it's like u said, just because I'm a cis girl presently, that doesn't negate that I really *was* a trans boy, and later on I really *was* nonbinary, before I became a girl again (though that might not be the case for everyone). I may have been trans in the first place because of internalized misogyny, yes, but that doesn't make my past identity any less real. Just because it's temporary, doesn't mean it's unimportant.
Rose S omg. this is awesome:3 how old are you? wanna be friends? if so I have a facebook:3 would love to talk to someone i can connect with on that level
What if you identify as both male and female because? I think I do and sometimes I think about transitioning to male but I'm also okay being a girl. I could live both happily but I think I would be happier if I was a guy but only if I was born a guy because what if I translation and want to go back to being a girl but my female body won't be the same after detransitioning
+bob smith You could be bigender. Maybe gender fluid, or maybe some completely different gender identity. Luckily you speak english, so there are many websites out there with information about the non-binary gender spectrum. Unfortunately, for people who don't speak english, there is almost nothing about it on the internet, let alone in books and other sources of information.
I know of someone who detransitioned, and it was quite hard on the rest of the community, particularly the younger guys who were maybe more insecure about their own life. I know that some of them looked up to this person. I think I saw more of the turmoil that was going on. BTW, there are folks for whom detransitioning is part of the "process" and some fo them transition again.
I believe people do evolve over time. I recently felt this in how I view my body. Growing up I dreamed about being a man and hated my femininity, breasts and sensitive nature, but now (in my mid-twenties) these feelings have subsided. Part of the reason, I think, is being in a healthy relationship! My partner has created a safe environment for me to express my feelings openly, treat my body with respect and enjoy the person I am. :) love your videos!
From what I've heard so far, motives for detransitioning vary quite a bit. Sometimes its self discovery. Other times they're either afraid to transition or feel they can't continue transitioning for whatever reason. That's probably the reason why it's such a touchy topic.
It's a difficult question. I respect everyone where they are. A friend has just had a double mastectomy but is not transitioning right now. I will use whatever pronoun s/he wants me to use, and if she decides to go all the way that's fine with me.
It's important to remember that gender and sexuality exist on a gradual continuum, like an artist's gray scale. If someone falls right in the middle between male and female, the sort of confusion that results in de-transitioning is entirely predictable. People who don't understand that are the ones who have the most difficulty accepting it. This is also the reason that WPATH recommends significant pre-transistion counseling. Lately I've been seeing many trans people getting their "T" letters after one visit - a mistake I believe. Some trans people see going back as "traitorous" and feels it somehow de-legitimizes their own identity. It is true that many LGBT ignorant people will see it as evidence that identifying as LGB or T is a choice, so I can see why some have a problem with others de-tranisitioning.
Ah definitely, I can see why that may leave a bad taste for the community overall. But I think, as the world progresses, it won't be seen in such a negative light. If trans* folk were more accepted, had better access to help/care/choices, and society as a whole did not dehumanize us, I think for those that were to go through the process, then detransition, it would not be seen so negatively. I think a lot of the negativity associated with detransitioning comes from the fact that trans* people must struggle and fight to be recognized as who they are and fight for their rights. To then have someone "go back" almost comes off as a fail. Once the road is paved though, I imagine the struggles will be less and thus acceptance, as a whole, will be more. And I definitely agree with you, a T letter after one visit is a scary thought to me. I've been trying to find a way to really word my thoughts on the subject without offending everyone, hopefully I'll be able to make a video about that soon!
This is why, despite strongly identifying as a transman, I'm going to wait until I'm 23 until I make a decision to transition. I figure I've dealt with this pain for so long, surely I can deal with it for another 6 years. I'd rather suffer like this than suddenly regret it and have to go back and re come out etc. Besides, I came out as gay only a few months ago, so I feel like it's too soon to bel ike "whoops actually I'm a dude my bad I was just in denial"
Imagine being called one thing your whole life and told that this is who you are even though you feel completely different about it. What do you do? Don’t you calculate the costs? What it means to go against popular opinion and be true to you? Now imagine that after trying to be yourself you find out that keeping up this extreme of an identity is too difficult for you? Why is this? It is because gender like sexuality is also a spectrum. Detransitioning doesn’t mean you are not transgender. It just means you were not as far on the spectrum as you previously thought you were. Maybe you don’t have a dysphoria about your bits. Maybe you just identify as more than what your bits define you as.
oh definitely! in fact, i hope to do another video on the topic with a friend who detransitioned, if they are comfortable talking about it. :) I see a lot of folks commenting on either the video on Arielle's channel or mine saying "what about transgirls?" etc, and just want to let everyone know that i'd love to do collabs with a variety of people. i was just asked this time, but hopefully when i get the hang of it, i can reach out to others to invite them :)
There is a very important distinction between gender expression and being transgender. Masculinity and femininity can be expressed by any gender regardless where on the spectrum you identify. A feminine identified person for example can express very masculine traits and still identify as a woman. She need not medically or socially transition to express masculinity. Nor does expressing masculine traits by her make her a man. A transgender man by contrast needs to identify as a man privately as well as publicly. This is where the medical and social transition factor in for him. Not understanding this distinction can have life altering results. Bear in mind that one can still have a crisis of gender but not be trans.
from a lot of the videos of people who went back,most mention trauma and that is was a coping mechanism as in disassociation. I also think that sometimes if a masculine presenting woman gets into femmism and starts hating on men because they secretly feel inferior or even jealous of them that might push them to transistion (I personally dated someone like this.)
I saw this documentary on trans women transitioning back to men, and it seemed that they "went back" because they had these very defined definitions of what the genders are (for example, if one guy tried to be really into fashion when he became a woman, and when he detransitions, he becomes a bodybuilder). How common is that?
i know that personally i often feel a lot of doubt about myself and personal identity. so i wonder if the idea of detransitioning has people thinking more about themselves and maybe bringing up some doubtful feelings? though this is probably not true for everyone and doubt is unfortunately often seen in a negative light. one would think that the idea of detransitioning being a possibility would be somewhat relieving! ah, so it goes. people will always be strange about change. thanks for the video, glad to see more videos on the subject! :)
It's so hard to use the correct terminology and not upset or insult anyone especially concerning this topic. I love people for being people, not because of their sexuality or the gender they identify as. I hope at some stage in the existence of humans that we get to a level of acceptance where anyone can just be who/what they want to be. (Unless it harms themselves or others) X
My significant other and I both identified as female when we met, but now we identify as male. He finds it awkward to be dating me since we are both FTM's. I told him that he should love me for me and not by how I identify as. Does anyone else think this is weird?
I know tons of FTM couples :) I don't think it's weird at all! Maybe your boyfriend should talk a bit more with you about why he feels it's awkward. If he loves you for you, there's nothing wrong with that! Maybe he just feels like it's rare - two ftm guys in a relationship - but I've seen it in oh, at least four couples I know over the years!
I think a big part of the reason that people have a problem with detransitioning is political. Trans people often struggle to be taken seriously and to allay loved one's fear that their gender identity is 'just a phase'. When people detransition, especially publicly/feature in a documentary, it can make it harder to be taken seriously and/or impossible to convince others of your own need to transition and the 'validity' of transgenderism/transsexuallism in general. There was a documentary shown here in the UK around 10 years ago which I kinda remember (though I might get a few things wrong) featuring a man who had transitioned to female (all surgeries done) and back to male. He featured in this documentary criticising transition for anybody, saying it shouldn't be done and lamenting the loss of his original genitals. While this was obviously very traumatic for him, he should not have been criticising other people's access to treatment. Given the lack of awareness most people have of the trans community, documentaries are often all they know of it, so coverage of detransitioning can be hugely damaging to public perception. That doesn't excuse people within the trans/LGBT community criticising people for detransitioning or the backlash that people suffer for doing so.
You two have a lot of nerve to make a video about detransition without featuring or talking to a detransitioned woman or man. Imagine the reverse...its political blasphemy...your hypocrisy is glaring and you clearly don't follow what detransitioners are actually saying. Why am I not surprised?
I think it's about freedom and supporting the person and the decisions they make, they actually wisely made an exception clause for people in the UK who decide to de transition so that they can go back to their previous gender.
Have you by any chance seen the film 'Almost myself Reflections on mending and transcending gender'? It was a very interesting documentary that dealt with the topic of detransitioning if you have not seen it I highly recommend watching it. Great video by the way.
I know this doesn't have to do with the main topic of the video but I had a bit of a problem with the example Arielle used of a lesbian deciding to date men. The person she is describing is most likely bisexual and the way she talked about it made it sound like there is only straight or gay. That's bi erasure and it's really not cool.
+jaziybabe That's a big assumption to make. If the woman in Arielle's example identified as a lesbian, then she was a lesbian. Just because she at one point was attracted to women doesn't mean she will always be attracted to women. There are plenty of cases of this happening. It's not bi erasure if she legit isn't bi. Sexuality can be fluid. So can gender.
croc I do believe that you're born that way, but some people in rare cases do have fluid gender or sexuality, especially women (apparently). You don't just "turn gay" or "turn straight," but sexuality and gender are both spectrums, and it's possible to move up and down along those spectrums. Learn some science. I am panromantic and genderfluid. I've been beaten and bullied for my sexual orientation and gender identity, so don't you give me that shit. And maybe don't jump off the deep end and call people homophobic piles of shit since you seem to easily misunderstand their points. Maybe try to have a discussion and understand their point of view before you get so angry and reactive.
Jayster waah boohoo, did i ask for your life story? of course women are the ones who do this bullshit lmao. you're either born gay or you aren't, you can't change it sweetheart deal with it. also you're bisexual*.
croc Not a woman. You very clearly don't know anything you're talking about and your knowledge of LGBT issues, sexualities, and terms is stuck 20 or more years in the past. Have fun being a bigot.
I think there needs to be some form of understanding towards those who are rediscovering their gender or sexuality however many times. It can't be easy for them. It could be like they've now just lived their whole life a lie or they've been living it wrong or something. I really don't think that's the case though, I think that people are changing all the time. New experiences and thoughts are going to develop us as we grow older. People are so complex, and people need to understand that. It's like children who don't like carrots, but during their teens, absolutely love them! And then as they even more older, their taste buds develop further and they dislike them again. It happens!
I find this so interesting. I feel like the perception is that "I am this way; I have always been this way; it's nature etc." I find it interesting the support of "changing back". I'm not sure the right words... I feel like it's always been kinda harsh toward Christians talking about God "changing" a person's sexual orientation or gender identity. It's refreshing to hear there may be a little acceptance, if only by a few of that... Interesting all around...
I completely agree with Arielle on this one :) gender and sexuality are fluid and people shouldn't have to be afraid of identifying however they want even if they identified differently before.
I think a lot of what your saying is right I spent 20 something years as a MTF trans person however as I got older i still had issues with my gender it was not quite right and what I'm a lot more comfortable in is simply being bi-gender before I even new what this new to me term was I had decided to simply not choose between being female or male and decided to be both and as I did research here on my computer I discovered that there are people that felt the same way I did. You see for me I felt very female and still do but I also don't have a problem with being male at all and prefer to present myself as actually being an androgynous person in appearance which is how I feel the only surgery that I had was my boobs which is fine although I had several opportunities to have the bottom surgery I'm glad I decided to wait because now I find that it's not really necessary for me and that I'm happy in the body that I was born in and I'm also contemplating removing my breast implants. I was born with very androgynous looks with helps me with being bi-gender when people look at me that tend to have to guess what gender I am and it's been that way with me since I was a toddler. My journey of self discovery was well worth it because I find myself being completely satisfied and happy not choosing but living authentically as bi-gender for me there was a reason for being born with female and male feelings and for me it did not mean completely transitioning into female and completely letting go of my male side, so if this helps any one out there going through the same feelings about one self and still feel uncomfortable transition as a MTF or FTM , cool never give up your journey of self disscovery.
I think people get angry about it because they've been told their identity is a phase so many times and someone changing could feel like a betrayal. I have known trans guys who after a few years started identifying as genderqueer or even female and their identity at every point in their life is just as valid as one that never changes. The discrimination people who "detransition" face within the trans* community is almost completely based in fear of and anger at all the times trans* identity has been invalidated by cis people.
Detransitioning is the perfect example of why you shouldn't do things impulsively. I'm not saying feeling trans is a phase but it is sometimes, this is why you first have to go to psychologists etc. before they give you hormones. Before you decide to transition, you really need to know your true gender. Some people are gender fluid but you can't keep transitioning back and forth from male to female (would be awesome though) so you need to figure things out for yourself first and decide what you really want. I wouldn't be mean to or unacceptant of someone who decides to detransition at all, but I'm just saying transitioning is really difficult, expensive, etc and you should really think it through. Things like this do happen though, and if someone I knew would decide to do this, I would love them all the same and support them.
I think I'd try to tell the person to think about it for a little longer before de-transitioning. Sometimes it may just be some self-esteem crisis. Doing some therapy prior to deciding to detransition would be a good way to know if that's what you really want.
Taking body altering hormones without them having been properly tested, genital mutilation and self sterilization are your idea of not doing harm to your body? This stuff isn't a friggin joke, they are making major decisions on a whim.
+Kitty Fantastic If your friend went and started hammering nails into his head you wouldn't even question if that's OK? You've mindlessly accepted something that is not normal or healthy as routine.
In short, learn to mind your own business. other persons body and choices in relation to their body? Not your business. That simple. You and your opinion are not more important then another persons human rights and freedom. So rather simply, shove a sock in it!
I came out as lesbian and my partner is FtM so I like to say I'm pansexual now and both times I cried to my father telling him how I feel my father being amazing said I don't need to have a label hun you love him and he loves you tho sadly I had friends who now will not talk to because they say when I came out lesbian I lied
There's no label that accounts for gender and sexuality fluidity. so that's one of the reasons why identifying as one thing then realising another would make it harder to come out again
My only...worry, and I say worry because this comes from a place of truly caring about someone and wanting them to find the answers for their life, rather than going through a lot of surgeries or needless pain chasing something that won't fix their probems. So my only worry is this: Sometimes, people feel that switching their gender will get them the respect or interest in them that they never had before. For me, for the longest time...oh god, I would have given anything to be a boy, to be a man, to be able to dress how I want, and do what I want, and eat what I want, and not have to worry about what people think about my body or how I should look in relation to men, just--I remember my father being so disappointed that I wasn't a boy, that I couldn't do anything like hunt or ride four-wheelers, and I didn't like football and other male things--and born female, I wasn't allowed to have interest in those things, either. It took forever for me to fully separate out those thoughts and realize that--becoming a man wouldn't solve them, I'd just be subject to a whole new set of expectations, just this time it'd be the male ones. And in becoming one, it wouldn't solve the instilled hatred and self-loathing from my childhood and what a disappointment I was. Today--I identify as Pansexual, but my gender is still up in the air--it has been since I was 14-15 or so, and although I dress feminine more often, I find myself admiring drag kings and the ability to look masculine. I mostly just dislike society's expectations that come with being either male or female. I don't like the state of gender relations, not on tinder, not on okc, not in the media. I don't like that because I'm 26 and born with a vagina, the message is often sent to me that I'm spoiled milk at this age, and nobody will ever marry me--it's a terrible feeling, and it's why I like makeup and want to wear it, but also don't want to wear it, because I'm afraid of what people will say. I lived through most of highschool in a sports bra and baggy clothes to try to hide my body as much as possible. I've found a few kindred spirits--one woman posted on reddit--she thought for the longest time--and even started Testosterone, but stopped it after only a month or so, and at one point, even even went so far as to mutilate her own breasts--stabbing them with a knife--it's sad, because she said she felt, at the time, that she would have given anything to be a man, and it wasn't until she moved away from her mother and didn't talk to her for months that she realized the issue was the self-loathing, not her gender. It's...complicated. But it is why I support there being a system you go through when you're transitioning--you get a therapist, the therapist walks you mentally through your issues, you make sure transitioning is about simply wanting a new gender, and not about presuming that a new gender will solve your past issues from bad relationships, child abuse, or problems with self-worth. Because it won't. I think the most apt comparison is weight loss surgery--gastric bypass or the saline band--both will temporarily change your body--make you lose a ton of weight, but you'll gain it right back if you don't change your underlying habits in the first place. In both cases surgery can be involved, for Trans people hormones often are--but if you undertake either without examining your motives and causes of those feelings in the first place, you won't find happiness. I'm not exactly happy as a woman, but I don't think I'd be happy as a guy either.
Gender is a SPECTRUM. I am transitioning and then detransitioning BECAUSE I am Bigender leaning male, so I need some changes to get my body to where my gender is just like trans men. I go through everything s trans guy does I'm just not that far on the spectrum. My gender. My identity. My needs are just as valid. My business. My gender isn't for you to judge anymore than it is for cisgendered people to do. That's a horrid double standard. Not to mention that the new concensus on being trans is that it has to do with the endocrine system, which means you land anywhere on a broad spectrum and that spectrum isn't rigid for some people and is for others. Even though sexuality is an unrelated topic, the spectrum for that works similarity in the way that it is fluid for some, rigid for others, and involves a very long spectrum. Regardless, I think in any situation people in general should ask themselves "am I treating this human being well"? If that was always the go to place, these nasty judgements would have a very short sociological life span. Being Trans is lonely and hard. People in the middle of the spectrum have the same mortality rates both with hate crimes and suicide. Why would you start segregating from within when this is the case? That's crazy. We need each other.
I'm a gay man who thinks you are gorgeous ;) Found you on Arielle's channel and might have a little crush now lol I love your insights and everything you share about your experience. You are brave and confident and beautiful!
Arielle Scarcella @skylarkeleven I don't know if I completely agree with your theory about the whole "then lesbian, now straight" idea. Not saying that it couldn't happen, because then that would invalidate the whole idea of "born this way". I mean, unless I'm reading too much into it, I don't believe that we choose our sexual orientation. I have always kind of believed in the whole notion of if you're a lesbian, you're a lesbian. How can someone suddenly just not like women if they're a lesbian, and suddenly like men?
I don't really like the idea of detransitioning, but if it makes them happy it makes them happy. I've come out three times? Yeah, three. Bisexual in sixth grade. Pansexual in seventh. FTM Transgender in eighth. Even after I'm post op, I'll dress as a female on occasion. I've always liked the idea of cross dressing, and I think I'd make a nice drag queen. That's not to say I dress as a male every once in awhile. I'm a binder and boxers everyday kind of dude. Except on rare Wednesday occasions, because on Wednesdays we wear pink, and if you don't then you can't sit with us. >Kyler out.
I can't believe you made a video with this transmisogynistic person. I guess on the plus side, at least you got to be in the video -- so she didn't get to say as much problematic stuff as she could. Hopefully she took something away from this. Though she talks over you a number of times ("But I think..."), so she really hasn't changed from being the stereotypical ally. Not to mention, she completely disregards the possibility of there being bisexual people.
You know, I know about as much about Arielle as anyone else who watches her on the internet (which for me is as of recently.) But through the conversations I had with her before and while making this, I found her to be really supportive. Everyone still has to learn, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just in my experience with Arielle (not able to reflect on anything she's said in months prior) this week, I found her to be very much an ally to our community..
Ezekiel King I also can see where you may be getting the idea that Arielle doesn't think bi folks exist - although she said she would rather date a lesbian than a bi girl, I don't think that she is saying anything against bi folks. Who knows - she may just really love being a part of the lesbian community, wants to date within it, etc. Her personal preference, not a declaration. I say that I am primarily attracted to feminine folks - but that doesn't mean I won't see a more masculine woman, recognize her for her masculinity and appreciate that, still find her attractive, still respect her and her identities. I just have a preference toward the feminine folks for whatever reason - don't feel a need to justify it. Arielle is pretty outspoken about her thoughts. Just like many of your friends and folks you know, I'm sure. She chooses to talk on the inter webs, about her life, her thoughts, her experiences. She's not a dictionary of facts, and I'm sure she has opinions that aren't popular for whatever reason. I do as well in some cases! In the end, Arielle asked me if I'd like to collab with her. We talked a bunch, I found her super nice, super friendly, and just a really honest person overall. She doesn't sugar coat things (I know - I do!!) and I totally respect that. She's just being herself, as are we all - but no need to label her as transmisogynistic or a stereotypical ally or assumed as being problematic just because she is in a video. Just sticking up for a friend - this is simply what I've taken away from getting to know her this week. :)
I want to thank you for this video. For me i have been figuring myself out for the last 10 years. I came out a lesbian and then thought I was also ftm. i left the LGBT community out choice when i started going to church. people thought i was being brainwashed. but sorry i cant be brainwashed by a language i dont know. i went to a korean church. still for 6years i was told by people what i was supposed to be. even thought i believe jesus is my lord and saviour i hated it when people told me i had to be a certain way. i need to be like this because thats what being a girl is about. i conformed for a bit because i thought that what i wanted and what was right. however years passed and people pissed me off and i thought to myself, why cant i wear male clothing why do i have to wear womans clothing. so i slowly started doing my own thing and releazing this is who i am. my sister always gets made cause she says i liked makeup and etc. like it makes you look beautiful and why am I lazy. I got into a huge arguement with her tilling her to back off. point is so many people have this distoried view of what a girl should be and also what a guy should be. I hate conforming but I also dont feel like either gender. Sometimes I feel like both or one or the other but most of the time i feel like neither. so i left the lgbt community and know after 6 years i am coming out again. but i know a tone of people wont just except me back because its as sky was saying. Am i really trans? am i really agender? i see myself as bisexual and demisexual also. but is that really me. but if you look at my age i actually came out for the first time in 2006. there was no such thing as agender or even demisexual. at least not in the city or lgbt community i was in. i think agender is a newer term with in the last 4 to 5 years. so the way i felt back in 2006 wasnt even defined it was actually unknown. its 2016 so 10 years later there is an alphabet soup. for myself i am scared to come back out. what will all the big named trans men in my city who know me think of me. i made the first step and went to the trans friendly place in my city. i knew one person there. but i got myself put on the trans waitlist. i am seeking out a trans friendly doctor. but there is someone at the clinic that i know who is a very important figure in the trans community in my city. so i am down right nervous to come across them. i wont have them as a doctor but i could see them. i am agender trans and i want top surgery. i always have wanted just top surgery since i came out. but i thought it made me ftm. but yeah i know that doesnt. either way its 2016 and have my second coming out.... and its shit scary because i know how much ill lose since i lost everything twice already. i lost everying in 2006 when i came out as a lesbain. then in 2011 i lost all my friends again when i left the lgbt community. now its 2016 will i lose everything and be shuned. i have some supporters. but i dont want to be seen as someone who is trying to get attention. so the lgbt community is scarier then the hetro world at least thats what i found.
To be totally honest here, I have no problem with it except in the fact it's so hard on the body going back from a certain point. I am a gay cis man who would love to go out with a younger trans guy for several reasons one of which is I am very attracted to FtM guys.
I think its okay but I understand that to an extent it may seem to invalidate most trans people, because some close minded people may be like "oh well my friend detransitioned, so you must have to do that too". But everyones circumstances are different and obviously they would need to understand that
Well if trans people don't want to be generalized, detransitioners also shouldn't be. I support people who are transgender but I made a personal mistake and it's not anyones business or concern but my own. We both are having a hard time here.
I am a transman and I been on T for a while and did my top surgery two and a half weeks ago. I identified as heterosexual before that and have only dated feminine girls, but sometimes I could crush on a person of any gender, girls, guys, cis or trans.. I think for me the fact that I now feel more complete in my role as male an in my own skin,I don't have to be protective of my own masculinity.. Maybe it sounds strange but yeah, my sexuality changed and I don't really mind it at all :P Why would I?
Is it just me or does the idea of "going back and forth", so to speak, have the possibility of having a negative impact on the equality movement as it stands today?
I have a question... Am I still considered Transgender if I don't go for surgery or T? I recently came out to my parents about being trans... They seemed fine with it... Till I started telling them about top surgery and T... That's when they didn't agree lol... So we compromised. I can get a breast reduction and dress like a guy... Thing is... I'm okay with it, but I'm wondering if I'm still a transitioning ftm or I'm just a crisscrossed. :( Thanks Levian P.S. You're cute Arielle ^_^.
***** Um... no. Just my parents and I don't they're any where I live either... and I don't have a license. I don't mind e-mailing tho, so if you could, I'll check it out.
I think the only issue is that the transphobes use detransitioning as a weapon against trans youth. Whatever a person does with their life and body I wish them joy, love and support; every person deserves that. People shouldn't be marginalized for the choices they make and who they are. I don't have to understand to be supportive.
+Michiko Yeung people who detransition like Walt Heyer are a disgrace to the TS community and the majority of the time are backstabbers who end up condemning the idea of someone changing gender
Carl Vincenzo that is biological sex, not gender. Gender has nothing to do with anything physical. Oh and there is no God. DNA is thanks to billions of evolution
There seems to be consensus in the comments about what the top 3 reasons are for de-transitioning being labeled as "bad". 1) The trans* community has worked hard to show that being trans* is not a choice, so someone who de-transitions makes it look, to the scrutinizing cis-het folks for example, like trans*ness is just phase that those people can grow out of. While being kind of understandable, this view seems really irrelevant to me since the people that are against the idea of trans* will always find another reason to hate us. 2) Communities around trans* people put a lot of effort in accommodating their chosen names, pronouns, etc., so some people in the community may feel like they are being asked to work even harder for this one de-transitioning person to be comfortable. This view is quite self-absorbed and can be committed by anyone, including other trans* people. 3) The younger generation of the trans* community have tons of wonderful people to look up to - like yourself - and therefore, they may feel a sort of betrayal if their 'idol' decides that de-transitioning is right for them. Again, this view is so selfish; they have thousands of trans* vlogs/blogs to follow if they so choose.
We'll it's the first time I even hear about detransitioning. I would love to know more about how these people must feel. I just assume that it is really difficult to get the body you want if you have to do one single transformation. I imagine it must be even harder to do this whole process twice. I also wonder wether this people compare their two bodies of the same sex (before transitioning and after detransitioning) and sometimes feel that their new body is not as good as the one they had in the first place? Anyways, I wish all the people who have to go trough this all the strength they need.
Overall, gender and sexuality are fluid. I don't like the word "phase" because it tends to add a negative connotation regardless of how you may mean it. I think it doesn't have to do with a phase but rather the fluidity of the whole thing in the first place. Nothing is black and white. I think it would be brave of someone to re-transition if their identity were to change. The change of identity would not be a choice but the transition would be. In that aspect, again, I think that person would be brave. Now if there really are people out there that transition to be "cool" or for whatever reason outside of it being their true identity, I would still respect them and whatever pronouns they prefer because respect, above all, is what counts. If they are disrespecting the community by thinking that being trans is the "cool" thing to do, they are only disrespecting themselves and their own gender identity. In that case, it is their problem, but I will never disrespect someones PGP's just because I think they might be transitioning for the wrong reasons.
wow sky is really good looking ..... *fans self* and this is a really interesting topic... I just really hate the idea of people being mean towards anyone who is de-transitioning.. It would be hard enough in the first place, let alone having friends and/or your lgbt community being mean towards you.
I'm writing this comment from one of my best friend's house. She has two moms and I don't care. I love them both and their relationship. I just don't see how anyone can despise someone based on their sexuality or situation. I'm a straight girl and I'm completely open about anyone being homosexual or transgender. And coming from a straight girl, I think you are seriously hot. C: just saying.
Maybe negative reactions come from fear about that possibility of such a change being possible. I learn all the time, now that I am around trans people, the limits in my own mind that I must break down.
I think that any person is a world apart...we should all start to think more objectively about ourselves, and not waste time judging always the behaviors of others, only to allow us to say: "In his place I would never do this or that!" ... vivi e lascia vivere! we must learn to discern that the people who are our inspiration, do not reflect at 100% our future or our path ... and this does not make them any less inspiring! =) and that freedom that we always look and ask for... is also the kind of freedom to let others feel free to live theirselves. (sorry, my english sucks! D= )
Why identify in the first place? Can't you just fall in love with a person guy or girl and omit the label all together?I was born female. I have fallen in love with both genders. Never have identified as straight/lesbian. What I do sexually with a consenting partner is of no concern to the public.
I'm not transgender, but I can't believe that transgender people would judge those who regret it or don't want to transition anymore. They act as if it's some kind of threat to them. Maybe it's a frightening concept to them, so they try to shove those people out of the community? I think it should be spoken about more. Nobody deserves to be told who or what they are or are not. And then it may let people know that you don't have to transition in any way but the way YOU want to. Maybe some trans people are frightened of surgery, or hormones, it doesn't mean they aren't trans. Chris Crocker spoke about this topic and got alot of abuse too. He says he's trans but hasn't transitioned... and there are many people like that in the world. It saddens me to know a community wanting justice has people who deliver injustice to many also. Open your minds people! Everyone deserves to be happy and who they are.
+Zelda Zonkin' It is a threat. It makes cispeople who believe we're all mentally ill believe it all the more strongly. It makes cis people believe it's a phase.
Not to say that people detransitioning should be kicked out or receive hate. They deserve to be true to themselves and receive the love and respect they're due as human beings.
The reason it's taboo, is the mentally ill/just a phase fear we have. and it's well justified.
+Zelda Zonkin' you HAVE to transition to be trans. trans is short for transition for fucks sake. detransitioners completely fuck everything up and make people actually think its a phase and that it's something people can choose to do for fun.
+Zelda Zonkin' You'd be surprised.
I don't see why anyone would have a serious problem with a family member/friend or even anyone detransitioning. As long as it makes the person happy, then all should be fine and well for the others. There is always a positive side to everything in my opinion.
What about the tragic hero? Is there anything positive for those? :)
Martianmanhunter-eiyan Jon Jonz-eiyan The hero part! :)
Shaun: Why such a harsh judgement? Sometimes people change. Gender is not some set-in-stone thing anyway.
+Shaun To be SURE of something is completely inhuman and utopic. You can't be 100% sure of anything. Trans people do their best trying to know if transitioning is what they really want, but sometimes people change their minds.
+strawberryseason yes it is fuck off lol
I hope there comes a time when there is no need to come out AS something. That puts so much pressure on the person to limit themselves in the future. People should be allowed to date who they want and act/dress/surgically change themselves to make them happy, without having to define the meaning of it to everyone.
PREACH
EXACTLY!! I think the main reason some people dislike the transitioning/detransitioning thing is just the UPKEEP of it. I mean, it's not only exhausting to constantly have to check your pronouns (a fault of our language not the individual) but to have to keep tabs on someone else's identity when you can barely pin down your own, it's like walking on eggshells. Can't I just address you as, "hey awesome person I have prior history with, I see you changed your __________ (hair, clothes, nails, skin, eyes, clothes, name, genitals, etc), I still love and respect you in whatever form you've decided to take on today!" :) I always try to be loving and open to everyone, but I honestly think people wouldn't feel the need to transition if there were no hard and fast rules about what is or isn't "male" or "female." Luckily I think that is changing, and slowly but surely we are being more and more of a unisex culture. Until there are no more genders, people won't truly be free to be their 100% true selves. There is this awesome Alice in Wonderland quote I love that roughly goes, "Who are you?" "Well I can't tell you who I am, you see, because I don't know! I must have changed 10 times since breakfast!"
What do you mean by "until there are no more genders"? You say you want people to be free to be their true selves, and I want that too. But if someone uses that freedom to identify his/her true self as being male, or female, isn't that a manifestation of gender? How do we "end genders", without forcing everyone to identify as non-binary-queers?
I think we need gender. We need categories and words that describe specific things, in order to analyze, describe, and act upon the world. I think it is a positive thing that we realize gender is based on biological characteristics of the two sexes, but is not physically dependent on it. A man can act feminine, and a woman can act manly. But getting rid of gender all together, and the descriptive function it serves in language and in our lives, doesn't seem very practical to me.
If I see a woman that is very masculine, and I want to point that fact out as an observation, how will I articulate it without using the word "masculine"? The fact that the way people express their gender is a spectrum, does not mean gender does not exist. I think people are underestimating a little bit the degree upon which we depend on the gender archetypes. And yes, the social construct side of it is huge, and very important, but I also think the biological side is being a bit underestimated too.
The reason most people identify as cis-gender, is because of society and how it is constructed, yes, but also because biologically we have certain predispositions to either side of the gender spectrum. Males to the masculine, females to the feminine. Is that a bad thing? Should we use science to make our biological sex non-binary? Is nature sexist?
I don't know. Its all very confusing. No wonder people are fighting each other over this.
I'm pretty sure that if we teach people what transgender and non-binary are, then less people will choose to transition once they realize the binary genders are not the only genders that exist.
I think one reason is because people derive a lot of motivation and inspiration from the people they look up to around them. So if someone who is in the early stages of transitioning looks up to someone else who has already transitioned, detransitioning might make the person that looked up to them feel betrayed. which is stupid and selfish, of course, but people are like this and feel other people owe them the things that they want from them haha.
i agree with everything stated in this video. people change, they evolve, they discover new things. and all the power to them for it
Wow that's definitely a great point! I can see that being the case as well.
Great comment, Geekella
that's why we shouldn't follow people and follow God. be an individualist and not a people pleaser.
Consider this: The more gender-identity is recognised as a mere phase, the more difficult it will be made for young transgenders to start treatment. One person's doubt-elimination therapy is another person's hell.
yes.. and actual transgender people on longer waitlists
It's only a phase for some. Just as some people are less fluid about their sexuality during certain parts of their loves and some have a lifelong sexuality.
You guys are awesome for approaching these topics in such a calm cool way! I think a lot of people feel indirectly threatened when people "go back" because it seems to invalidate the LGBT community. I also think people get way too attached to certain concepts and labels and things, and hold on to the idea that "this is how it's SUPPOSED to be", when really, everyone has their own mind and most people don't fully know their own mind, and society is changing all the time, so ANYTHING can happen. Movements can just totally change. Like maybe in a few generations "trans" won't even be a thing because gender roles will have been done away with and nobody will even associate boobs with dresses and penises with construction work or whatever. (Maybe, I said MAYBE. *waits for the attack dogs*) But that doesn't mean it isn't an important thing today, because people DO associate things with things, and people who don't fit those things would have to live their whole lives in discomfort, so trans has a purpose currently.
I hope no attack dogs come ;) But in any case, I definitely understand what you're saying here. Now that I'm older and reflect upon my gender identity (realizing it's all a social construct, realizing everyone can be whomever they are, gender wise, expression wise, etc) I used to wonder - "hey. Maybe I could have just not taken hormones or had top surgery, still identified as a boy and still be recognized as that because everything is so fluid." and absolutely - totally could have done that. But the issue was not having others see me as the boy I was (and am.) It was me being able to feel comfortable in my body. It wasn't "Hey, I like that man's body - those pecs, that penis - so I'm going to get that and the world will see me as a man too!" It was more "Wow, I really don't feel comfortable having breasts. I'm never going to use them. Jeezums!" and "Wow, I really would love for my voice to be lower. And for my body fat to redistribute. I think taking Testosterone will really ease my dysphoria about my body." So that's why I made those choices. I know soooo many transfolk who choose no-T, no-op and I'm just so happy for them - they can live as themselves, have the world recognize them for their identity (hopefully, cmon world, you gotta!) and feel good in their body without altering it permanently. For me, I felt a need to physically alter myself to be comfortable.
So it goes a bit deeper than just gender roles, more onto the personal identity rather than social identity :)
thanks for covering this topic ! i really believe that gender and sexuality are very personal things, and if a person decides to move around inside the spectrum a little, thats their deal, and no one can tell them theyre wrong or "wasnt gay/trans/whatever" in the first place, because thats literally not your problem.
***** hey calm down. I cant speak for everyone, im sure some people transition and find out it was a mistake years later, but some people do detransition for other reasons. It could be health problems or wanting kids etc. That doesnt de-legitimize them being trans or otherwise. You cant walk around deciding for pople whether theyre trans or not. It's not your job, and I dont see why the fuck you care anyway. Row your own damn boat.
aypierre amen
aypierre thank you, so much for that. the last part of it to be exact. 1,000x yes. whenever ANYONE around me says "Oh, he's gay and he just doesn't know it yet" or that I am not bisexual because I am dating a man. (do you know what bisexual even means?) ...I just tell people that their identy is up to them to decide and, that, they are the only ones who truly know how they feel...so in order to treat others' with decent respect, you should just let them decide their own sexuality, refer to them as what they prefer and worry about your own life.
I came out as male to many people (pre-medical transition) about 9 months after I discovered this world of genders, as I always felt out of place as a female. I'm very grateful I did not rush into a medical transition because now I identify much more comfortably as a genderqueer/non-binary person. I still will probably get top surgery sometime in the future because I can't imagine not binding my chest. Thank you for covering this topic :)
That's so great to hear a bit of your story! I always encourage folks not to rush into medically transitioning - simply because we all do change. I'm glad to hear you are feeling good with your identity! :D
I think people are not okay with it because it makes them question themselves again.
This is so inspiring. Thank you both SO much for being so open and amazing!
I love the idea that, in the future, gender/sexuality may become something taken for granted as NATURALLY FLUID throughout any given person's lifetime
What do you mean?
3-3-15 434pm
This aged like milk.
It's stuff like this that make me afraid for really young people who go on hormones right away. I think a person really needs to explore themselves and grow as an individual before ever making the decision to change who that individual might actually be. Jumping into things like that can have really horrible psychological and medical health complications.
Not taking hormones soon enough can create horrible psychological and medical health complications too though.
WiseFool No. Not really no.
WiseFool it does accentuate physical traits that belong to their biological sex of the trans individual which as we know creates a huge dysphoria once transitioning
There a plenty of people that transition later than life are just fine
According to massive studies in the Netherlands, a liberal nation that pioneered hormone therapy in children, only 20% of seriously gender dysphoric kids remain gender dysphoric after puberty. The rest accept their natal sex and are typically simply gay.
However, hormone blockers prevent that from happening and reinforce a trans identity that likely would've have disappeared.
Gender is a social construct. It varies across cultures and over time. So why are we permanently changing bodies to conform to a social construct? Why, instead, aren't we changing society to better accept gay and/or gender non-conforming persons?
There is a very specific reason why detransitioning or "going straight" bothers the LGBT community so much (and also explains why bisexuals are often not taken seriously).
The primary defense and rhetoric of the LGBT community has been "this is how we are, we cannot change it, we can't change who we identify as, and we can't change who we are attracted to." The line, "living as your authentic self," reflects this sentiment, making the broad statement that once you come out and accept yourself and live as a trans person or homosexual, you finally are being authentic.
There are many of us who came from a very real, very scary, dark place thinking that we were abominations for wanting to change gender or liking the same sex, and we had to listen to a lot of science and social support before we came out and stopped hating ourselves. This comes from what I dubbed 1st Wave LGBT Activism. Pre-activism attitudes were when the LGBT community knew about LGBT, but we kept it to ourselves and secret, if we even practiced it at all. 2nd Wave LGBT Activism has more of a "be who you wanna be and screw what others' think" attitude, and tends to be much more fluid.
1st Wave and 2nd Wave LGBT Activism are often at odds idealistically, but 2nd Wave LGBT Activism has experienced a lot more support, so much so, that there are members of our community today who see no reason to associate directly with the LGBT community at large, let alone be participants in LGBT Activism.
awwwww, luff this :)
love this colab!! Skye and Arielle you are awesome people. Thank you for bringing these topics out in the open. It has helped my understand the trans community a lot better!!
...Skylar is SO hot.
To answer your question, I think the reason de-transitioning is so frowned upon is because the transgender community, in this day and age, is still under a lot of scrutiny. To transition just once in the first place takes a significant amount of commitment and self-assurance and to go back on that commitment almost reinforces the beliefs of those who oppose transgender individuals. Personally, I identify as somewhat bigender and slightly gender fluid but I'm completely comfortable with my body and the pronouns associated with it. From my perspective, however, the thought of someone de-transitioning after the seemingly tumultuous process of transitioning in the first place seems not only like a waste of effort (and income), but also irresponsible. I feel this way particularly about those who have already undergone reassignment surgery (although, I don't actually know how commonly this occurs). I understand that people undergo mental and emotional changes constantly but every surgical alteration to the physical body has a cumulative effect that isn't always reparable. Personally, I don't feel that whatever changes one may be going through internally is worth putting their body through that much trauma. You only get one body after all.
*****
I just think about things like this often. :P
iFauxPas what about a cis female who prefers male pronouns due to reasons from the past?
Arielle I so so appreciate what u had to say on this subject, I've been trans for five years and now I'm realizing that I'm a cis girl, and I'm pretty scared about it. But it's like u said, just because I'm a cis girl presently, that doesn't negate that I really *was* a trans boy, and later on I really *was* nonbinary, before I became a girl again (though that might not be the case for everyone). I may have been trans in the first place because of internalized misogyny, yes, but that doesn't make my past identity any less real. Just because it's temporary, doesn't mean it's unimportant.
excactly :)
Rose S omg. this is awesome:3 how old are you? wanna be friends? if so I have a facebook:3 would love to talk to someone i can connect with on that level
What if you identify as both male and female because? I think I do and sometimes I think about transitioning to male but I'm also okay being a girl. I could live both happily but I think I would be happier if I was a guy but only if I was born a guy because what if I translation and want to go back to being a girl but my female body won't be the same after detransitioning
I think that's called being genderfluid :) I'm not exactly sure though, but I feel the exact way
Leslie Genderfluid or bigender. Whichever seems to fit better. c:
+bob smith You could be bigender. Maybe gender fluid, or maybe some completely different gender identity. Luckily you speak english, so there are many websites out there with information about the non-binary gender spectrum. Unfortunately, for people who don't speak english, there is almost nothing about it on the internet, let alone in books and other sources of information.
+bob smith genderfluid :)
+bob smith you don't. you're one or the other deal with it lol
I know of someone who detransitioned, and it was quite hard on the rest of the community, particularly the younger guys who were maybe more insecure about their own life. I know that some of them looked up to this person. I think I saw more of the turmoil that was going on. BTW, there are folks for whom detransitioning is part of the "process" and some fo them transition again.
Love you guys, you are raising some great awareness for some important topics! I have been following you both for along time
I believe people do evolve over time. I recently felt this in how I view my body. Growing up I dreamed about being a man and hated my femininity, breasts and sensitive nature, but now (in my mid-twenties) these feelings have subsided. Part of the reason, I think, is being in a healthy relationship! My partner has created a safe environment for me to express my feelings openly, treat my body with respect and enjoy the person I am. :) love your videos!
Oh my God Arielle used to be so reasonable
From what I've heard so far, motives for detransitioning vary quite a bit. Sometimes its self discovery. Other times they're either afraid to transition or feel they can't continue transitioning for whatever reason. That's probably the reason why it's such a touchy topic.
It's a difficult question. I respect everyone where they are. A friend has just had a double mastectomy but is not transitioning right now. I will use whatever pronoun s/he wants me to use, and if she decides to go all the way that's fine with me.
It's important to remember that gender and sexuality exist on a gradual continuum, like an artist's gray scale. If someone falls right in the middle between male and female, the sort of confusion that results in de-transitioning is entirely predictable. People who don't understand that are the ones who have the most difficulty accepting it. This is also the reason that WPATH recommends significant pre-transistion counseling. Lately I've been seeing many trans people getting their "T" letters after one visit - a mistake I believe.
Some trans people see going back as "traitorous" and feels it somehow de-legitimizes their own identity. It is true that many LGBT ignorant people will see it as evidence that identifying as LGB or T is a choice, so I can see why some have a problem with others de-tranisitioning.
Ah definitely, I can see why that may leave a bad taste for the community overall. But I think, as the world progresses, it won't be seen in such a negative light. If trans* folk were more accepted, had better access to help/care/choices, and society as a whole did not dehumanize us, I think for those that were to go through the process, then detransition, it would not be seen so negatively. I think a lot of the negativity associated with detransitioning comes from the fact that trans* people must struggle and fight to be recognized as who they are and fight for their rights. To then have someone "go back" almost comes off as a fail. Once the road is paved though, I imagine the struggles will be less and thus acceptance, as a whole, will be more.
And I definitely agree with you, a T letter after one visit is a scary thought to me. I've been trying to find a way to really word my thoughts on the subject without offending everyone, hopefully I'll be able to make a video about that soon!
Personally I think using the fluidity argument hurts the GLBT community because it validates some homophobic and transphobic criticisms.
I'm not sure how that would be possible. Would you care to explain your POV?
This is why, despite strongly identifying as a transman, I'm going to wait until I'm 23 until I make a decision to transition. I figure I've dealt with this pain for so long, surely I can deal with it for another 6 years. I'd rather suffer like this than suddenly regret it and have to go back and re come out etc. Besides, I came out as gay only a few months ago, so I feel like it's too soon to bel ike "whoops actually I'm a dude my bad I was just in denial"
Why wait? If you end up not wanting to be a dude, you'll just be a slightly butcher lesbian, right? LOL.
I wish I could've transitioned earlier. :(
Mar Garrison
Man if I had a dollar.....
Imagine being called one thing your whole life and told that this is who you are even though you feel completely different about it. What do you do? Don’t you calculate the costs? What it means to go against popular opinion and be true to you? Now imagine that after trying to be yourself you find out that keeping up this extreme of an identity is too difficult for you? Why is this? It is because gender like sexuality is also a spectrum. Detransitioning doesn’t mean you are not transgender. It just means you were not as far on the spectrum as you previously thought you were. Maybe you don’t have a dysphoria about your bits. Maybe you just identify as more than what your bits define you as.
Great video, Sky! I've been subbed to you for some time now, and it's been great seeing you and your channel grow!
Thanks my friend :D I am definitely going to try and branch into new things!
Might have been cool to see/talk to other trans* folk (like someone nonbinary or a trans lady) about detransitioning.
oh definitely! in fact, i hope to do another video on the topic with a friend who detransitioned, if they are comfortable talking about it. :) I see a lot of folks commenting on either the video on Arielle's channel or mine saying "what about transgirls?" etc, and just want to let everyone know that i'd love to do collabs with a variety of people. i was just asked this time, but hopefully when i get the hang of it, i can reach out to others to invite them :)
There is a very important distinction between gender expression and being transgender. Masculinity and femininity can be expressed by any gender regardless where on the spectrum you identify. A feminine identified person for example can express very masculine traits and still identify as a woman. She need not medically or socially transition to express masculinity. Nor does expressing masculine traits by her make her a man. A transgender man by contrast needs to identify as a man privately as well as publicly. This is where the medical and social transition factor in for him. Not understanding this distinction can have life altering results. Bear in mind that one can still have a crisis of gender but not be trans.
Insecurity. Thats the main reason. Or jealousy. Hands down
God his voice is so low I love it so much
mmhmm very very
from a lot of the videos of people who went back,most mention trauma and that is was a coping mechanism as in disassociation. I also think that sometimes if a masculine presenting woman gets into femmism and starts hating on men because they secretly feel inferior or even jealous of them that might push them to transistion (I personally dated someone like this.)
I saw this documentary on trans women transitioning back to men, and it seemed that they "went back" because they had these very defined definitions of what the genders are (for example, if one guy tried to be really into fashion when he became a woman, and when he detransitions, he becomes a bodybuilder). How common is that?
Subscribed, i can honestly say i know nothing about trans, but have always had thousand's of questions. Thankyou for answering some of them today!
Arielle, I heart you.
I heart you too
MORE COLLABS PLEASE, so awesome!!
i know that personally i often feel a lot of doubt about myself and personal identity. so i wonder if the idea of detransitioning has people thinking more about themselves and maybe bringing up some doubtful feelings? though this is probably not true for everyone and doubt is unfortunately often seen in a negative light. one would think that the idea of detransitioning being a possibility would be somewhat relieving! ah, so it goes. people will always be strange about change. thanks for the video, glad to see more videos on the subject! :)
I dig that! it could be somewhat relieving for a person who maybe is doubtful, but still wants to follow their heart. :)
It's so hard to use the correct terminology and not upset or insult anyone especially concerning this topic. I love people for being people, not because of their sexuality or the gender they identify as. I hope at some stage in the existence of humans that we get to a level of acceptance where anyone can just be who/what they want to be. (Unless it harms themselves or others) X
My significant other and I both identified as female when we met, but now we identify as male. He finds it awkward to be dating me since we are both FTM's. I told him that he should love me for me and not by how I identify as. Does anyone else think this is weird?
I know tons of FTM couples :) I don't think it's weird at all! Maybe your boyfriend should talk a bit more with you about why he feels it's awkward. If he loves you for you, there's nothing wrong with that! Maybe he just feels like it's rare - two ftm guys in a relationship - but I've seen it in oh, at least four couples I know over the years!
I think a big part of the reason that people have a problem with detransitioning is political. Trans people often struggle to be taken seriously and to allay loved one's fear that their gender identity is 'just a phase'. When people detransition, especially publicly/feature in a documentary, it can make it harder to be taken seriously and/or impossible to convince others of your own need to transition and the 'validity' of transgenderism/transsexuallism in general.
There was a documentary shown here in the UK around 10 years ago which I kinda remember (though I might get a few things wrong) featuring a man who had transitioned to female (all surgeries done) and back to male. He featured in this documentary criticising transition for anybody, saying it shouldn't be done and lamenting the loss of his original genitals. While this was obviously very traumatic for him, he should not have been criticising other people's access to treatment. Given the lack of awareness most people have of the trans community, documentaries are often all they know of it, so coverage of detransitioning can be hugely damaging to public perception.
That doesn't excuse people within the trans/LGBT community criticising people for detransitioning or the backlash that people suffer for doing so.
You two have a lot of nerve to make a video about detransition without featuring or talking to a detransitioned woman or man. Imagine the reverse...its political blasphemy...your hypocrisy is glaring and you clearly don't follow what detransitioners are actually saying. Why am I not surprised?
I think it's about freedom and supporting the person and the decisions they make, they actually wisely made an exception clause for people in the UK who decide to de transition so that they can go back to their previous gender.
Have you by any chance seen the film 'Almost myself Reflections on mending and transcending gender'? It was a very interesting documentary that dealt with the topic of detransitioning if you have not seen it I highly recommend watching it. Great video by the way.
I haven't seen that! I definitely will try to, sounds like a great film :) Thanks for the recommendation!!
People change every day. They should be allowed to follow their path without having to justify it to anyone.
I know this doesn't have to do with the main topic of the video but I had a bit of a problem with the example Arielle used of a lesbian deciding to date men. The person she is describing is most likely bisexual and the way she talked about it made it sound like there is only straight or gay. That's bi erasure and it's really not cool.
+jaziybabe That's a big assumption to make. If the woman in Arielle's example identified as a lesbian, then she was a lesbian. Just because she at one point was attracted to women doesn't mean she will always be attracted to women. There are plenty of cases of this happening. It's not bi erasure if she legit isn't bi. Sexuality can be fluid. So can gender.
+Jayster sexuality and gender arent fluid fuck off you homophobe pile of shit lol youre born that way
croc I do believe that you're born that way, but some people in rare cases do have fluid gender or sexuality, especially women (apparently). You don't just "turn gay" or "turn straight," but sexuality and gender are both spectrums, and it's possible to move up and down along those spectrums.
Learn some science.
I am panromantic and genderfluid. I've been beaten and bullied for my sexual orientation and gender identity, so don't you give me that shit.
And maybe don't jump off the deep end and call people homophobic piles of shit since you seem to easily misunderstand their points. Maybe try to have a discussion and understand their point of view before you get so angry and reactive.
Jayster waah boohoo, did i ask for your life story? of course women are the ones who do this bullshit lmao. you're either born gay or you aren't, you can't change it sweetheart deal with it. also you're bisexual*.
croc Not a woman.
You very clearly don't know anything you're talking about and your knowledge of LGBT issues, sexualities, and terms is stuck 20 or more years in the past.
Have fun being a bigot.
I think there needs to be some form of understanding towards those who are rediscovering their gender or sexuality however many times. It can't be easy for them. It could be like they've now just lived their whole life a lie or they've been living it wrong or something. I really don't think that's the case though, I think that people are changing all the time. New experiences and thoughts are going to develop us as we grow older. People are so complex, and people need to understand that. It's like children who don't like carrots, but during their teens, absolutely love them! And then as they even more older, their taste buds develop further and they dislike them again. It happens!
My guess are, they can't find a job and/or hold it for long. Fearing facing homelessness, they detransition. Sorry bad English.
I wouldn't pretend to be trans but man, I hope I don't ever De-transition when I start transitioning.
Y am I not getting your vids
You are seriously amazing
I find this so interesting. I feel like the perception is that "I am this way; I have always been this way; it's nature etc." I find it interesting the support of "changing back". I'm not sure the right words... I feel like it's always been kinda harsh toward Christians talking about God "changing" a person's sexual orientation or gender identity. It's refreshing to hear there may be a little acceptance, if only by a few of that... Interesting all around...
oh my this has aged badly...
I completely agree with Arielle on this one :) gender and sexuality are fluid and people shouldn't have to be afraid of identifying however they want even if they identified differently before.
I advocate against any kind of medical transition because a lot of changes are permanent.
I think a lot of what your saying is right I spent 20 something years as a MTF trans person however as I got older i still had issues with my gender it was not quite right and what I'm a lot more comfortable in is simply being bi-gender before I even new what this new to me term was I had decided to simply not choose between being female or male and decided to be both and as I did research here on my computer I discovered that there are people that felt the same way I did. You see for me I felt very female and still do but I also don't have a problem with being male at all and prefer to present myself as actually being an androgynous person in appearance which is how I feel the only surgery that I had was my boobs which is fine although I had several opportunities to have the bottom surgery I'm glad I decided to wait because now I find that it's not really necessary for me and that I'm happy in the body that I was born in and I'm also contemplating removing my breast implants. I was born with very androgynous looks with helps me with being bi-gender when people look at me that tend to have to guess what gender I am and it's been that way with me since I was a toddler. My journey of self discovery was well worth it because I find myself being completely satisfied and happy not choosing but living authentically as bi-gender for me there was a reason for being born with female and male feelings and for me it did not mean completely transitioning into female and completely letting go of my male side, so if this helps any one out there going through the same feelings about one self and still feel uncomfortable transition as a MTF or FTM , cool never give up your journey of self disscovery.
I think people get angry about it because they've been told their identity is a phase so many times and someone changing could feel like a betrayal. I have known trans guys who after a few years started identifying as genderqueer or even female and their identity at every point in their life is just as valid as one that never changes. The discrimination people who "detransition" face within the trans* community is almost completely based in fear of and anger at all the times trans* identity has been invalidated by cis people.
Detransitioning is the perfect example of why you shouldn't do things impulsively. I'm not saying feeling trans is a phase but it is sometimes, this is why you first have to go to psychologists etc. before they give you hormones. Before you decide to transition, you really need to know your true gender. Some people are gender fluid but you can't keep transitioning back and forth from male to female (would be awesome though) so you need to figure things out for yourself first and decide what you really want.
I wouldn't be mean to or unacceptant of someone who decides to detransition at all, but I'm just saying transitioning is really difficult, expensive, etc and you should really think it through. Things like this do happen though, and if someone I knew would decide to do this, I would love them all the same and support them.
I think I'd try to tell the person to think about it for a little longer before de-transitioning. Sometimes it may just be some self-esteem crisis. Doing some therapy prior to deciding to detransition would be a good way to know if that's what you really want.
Never heard of detransitioning before. I will support all the way. I hope their minds is not as complex as who they identify themselves as.
Helpful video. :) THANK-YOU, ARIELLE AND SKY.
So long as a person is happy with their choices, safe physically, and not being coerced its all good. I mean how is it our business?
Taking body altering hormones without them having been properly tested, genital mutilation and self sterilization are your idea of not doing harm to your body? This stuff isn't a friggin joke, they are making major decisions on a whim.
Who the hell are you to judge? It is not your body. Back off. That simple. Life is a journey. This is their journey. Not yours.
+Kitty Fantastic If your friend went and started hammering nails into his head you wouldn't even question if that's OK? You've mindlessly accepted something that is not normal or healthy as routine.
That is called a strawman argument and only reveals your deep seated personal issues and bigotry.
In short, learn to mind your own business. other persons body and choices in relation to their body? Not your business. That simple. You and your opinion are not more important then another persons human rights and freedom. So rather simply, shove a sock in it!
so Arielle, do you think you can be a cis lesbian ally to the trans community without all of the biphobia/bisexual erasure? let's try that next time.
Um.. she's not.
I came out as lesbian and my partner is FtM so I like to say I'm pansexual now and both times I cried to my father telling him how I feel my father being amazing said I don't need to have a label hun you love him and he loves you tho sadly I had friends who now will not talk to because they say when I came out lesbian I lied
There's no label that accounts for gender and sexuality fluidity. so that's one of the reasons why identifying as one thing then realising another would make it harder to come out again
what about "gender-fluid" label? lol
oh yeah...I seem really ignorant, sorry
***** not ignorant, just unknowing :) genderqueer, gender-fluid, androgynous - there's lots of fluctuation-able labels!
My only...worry, and I say worry because this comes from a place of truly caring about someone and wanting them to find the answers for their life, rather than going through a lot of surgeries or needless pain chasing something that won't fix their probems.
So my only worry is this: Sometimes, people feel that switching their gender will get them the respect or interest in them that they never had before. For me, for the longest time...oh god, I would have given anything to be a boy, to be a man, to be able to dress how I want, and do what I want, and eat what I want, and not have to worry about what people think about my body or how I should look in relation to men, just--I remember my father being so disappointed that I wasn't a boy, that I couldn't do anything like hunt or ride four-wheelers, and I didn't like football and other male things--and born female, I wasn't allowed to have interest in those things, either. It took forever for me to fully separate out those thoughts and realize that--becoming a man wouldn't solve them, I'd just be subject to a whole new set of expectations, just this time it'd be the male ones. And in becoming one, it wouldn't solve the instilled hatred and self-loathing from my childhood and what a disappointment I was.
Today--I identify as Pansexual, but my gender is still up in the air--it has been since I was 14-15 or so, and although I dress feminine more often, I find myself admiring drag kings and the ability to look masculine. I mostly just dislike society's expectations that come with being either male or female. I don't like the state of gender relations, not on tinder, not on okc, not in the media. I don't like that because I'm 26 and born with a vagina, the message is often sent to me that I'm spoiled milk at this age, and nobody will ever marry me--it's a terrible feeling, and it's why I like makeup and want to wear it, but also don't want to wear it, because I'm afraid of what people will say. I lived through most of highschool in a sports bra and baggy clothes to try to hide my body as much as possible.
I've found a few kindred spirits--one woman posted on reddit--she thought for the longest time--and even started Testosterone, but stopped it after only a month or so, and at one point, even even went so far as to mutilate her own breasts--stabbing them with a knife--it's sad, because she said she felt, at the time, that she would have given anything to be a man, and it wasn't until she moved away from her mother and didn't talk to her for months that she realized the issue was the self-loathing, not her gender.
It's...complicated. But it is why I support there being a system you go through when you're transitioning--you get a therapist, the therapist walks you mentally through your issues, you make sure transitioning is about simply wanting a new gender, and not about presuming that a new gender will solve your past issues from bad relationships, child abuse, or problems with self-worth. Because it won't.
I think the most apt comparison is weight loss surgery--gastric bypass or the saline band--both will temporarily change your body--make you lose a ton of weight, but you'll gain it right back if you don't change your underlying habits in the first place. In both cases surgery can be involved, for Trans people hormones often are--but if you undertake either without examining your motives and causes of those feelings in the first place, you won't find happiness.
I'm not exactly happy as a woman, but I don't think I'd be happy as a guy either.
Gender is a SPECTRUM. I am transitioning and then detransitioning BECAUSE I am Bigender leaning male, so I need some changes to get my body to where my gender is just like trans men. I go through everything s trans guy does I'm just not that far on the spectrum. My gender. My identity. My needs are just as valid. My business. My gender isn't for you to judge anymore than it is for cisgendered people to do. That's a horrid double standard. Not to mention that the new concensus on being trans is that it has to do with the endocrine system, which means you land anywhere on a broad spectrum and that spectrum isn't rigid for some people and is for others. Even though sexuality is an unrelated topic, the spectrum for that works similarity in the way that it is fluid for some, rigid for others, and involves a very long spectrum. Regardless, I think in any situation people in general should ask themselves "am I treating this human being well"? If that was always the go to place, these nasty judgements would have a very short sociological life span. Being Trans is lonely and hard. People in the middle of the spectrum have the same mortality rates both with hate crimes and suicide. Why would you start segregating from within when this is the case? That's crazy. We need each other.
I'm a gay man who thinks you are gorgeous ;) Found you on Arielle's channel and might have a little crush now lol I love your insights and everything you share about your experience. You are brave and confident and beautiful!
Arielle Scarcella @skylarkeleven I don't know if I completely agree with your theory about the whole "then lesbian, now straight" idea. Not saying that it couldn't happen, because then that would invalidate the whole idea of "born this way". I mean, unless I'm reading too much into it, I don't believe that we choose our sexual orientation. I have always kind of believed in the whole notion of if you're a lesbian, you're a lesbian. How can someone suddenly just not like women if they're a lesbian, and suddenly like men?
You don't choose it, it just happens.
I completely agree Ariel!
I LOVE this video!
So do they mean "detransitioning" as in purely the surgery aspects? Or "detransitioning" from that gender identity entirely?
Are the 2 people in this video the same people. Cuz the girl and guy looks the same
I don't really like the idea of detransitioning, but if it makes them happy it makes them happy. I've come out three times? Yeah, three. Bisexual in sixth grade. Pansexual in seventh. FTM Transgender in eighth. Even after I'm post op, I'll dress as a female on occasion. I've always liked the idea of cross dressing, and I think I'd make a nice drag queen. That's not to say I dress as a male every once in awhile. I'm a binder and boxers everyday kind of dude. Except on rare Wednesday occasions, because on Wednesdays we wear pink, and if you don't then you can't sit with us. >Kyler out.
What are binder and boxers?
3-3-15 455pm
I can't believe you made a video with this transmisogynistic person. I guess on the plus side, at least you got to be in the video -- so she didn't get to say as much problematic stuff as she could. Hopefully she took something away from this. Though she talks over you a number of times ("But I think..."), so she really hasn't changed from being the stereotypical ally. Not to mention, she completely disregards the possibility of there being bisexual people.
You know, I know about as much about Arielle as anyone else who watches her on the internet (which for me is as of recently.) But through the conversations I had with her before and while making this, I found her to be really supportive. Everyone still has to learn, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just in my experience with Arielle (not able to reflect on anything she's said in months prior) this week, I found her to be very much an ally to our community..
Ezekiel King I also can see where you may be getting the idea that Arielle doesn't think bi folks exist - although she said she would rather date a lesbian than a bi girl, I don't think that she is saying anything against bi folks. Who knows - she may just really love being a part of the lesbian community, wants to date within it, etc. Her personal preference, not a declaration. I say that I am primarily attracted to feminine folks - but that doesn't mean I won't see a more masculine woman, recognize her for her masculinity and appreciate that, still find her attractive, still respect her and her identities. I just have a preference toward the feminine folks for whatever reason - don't feel a need to justify it.
Arielle is pretty outspoken about her thoughts. Just like many of your friends and folks you know, I'm sure. She chooses to talk on the inter webs, about her life, her thoughts, her experiences. She's not a dictionary of facts, and I'm sure she has opinions that aren't popular for whatever reason. I do as well in some cases!
In the end, Arielle asked me if I'd like to collab with her. We talked a bunch, I found her super nice, super friendly, and just a really honest person overall. She doesn't sugar coat things (I know - I do!!) and I totally respect that. She's just being herself, as are we all - but no need to label her as transmisogynistic or a stereotypical ally or assumed as being problematic just because she is in a video.
Just sticking up for a friend - this is simply what I've taken away from getting to know her this week. :)
I want to thank you for this video. For me i have been figuring myself out for the last 10 years. I came out a lesbian and then thought I was also ftm. i left the LGBT community out choice when i started going to church. people thought i was being brainwashed. but sorry i cant be brainwashed by a language i dont know. i went to a korean church. still for 6years i was told by people what i was supposed to be. even thought i believe jesus is my lord and saviour i hated it when people told me i had to be a certain way. i need to be like this because thats what being a girl is about. i conformed for a bit because i thought that what i wanted and what was right. however years passed and people pissed me off and i thought to myself, why cant i wear male clothing why do i have to wear womans clothing. so i slowly started doing my own thing and releazing this is who i am. my sister always gets made cause she says i liked makeup and etc. like it makes you look beautiful and why am I lazy. I got into a huge arguement with her tilling her to back off. point is so many people have this distoried view of what a girl should be and also what a guy should be. I hate conforming but I also dont feel like either gender. Sometimes I feel like both or one or the other but most of the time i feel like neither.
so i left the lgbt community and know after 6 years i am coming out again. but i know a tone of people wont just except me back because its as sky was saying. Am i really trans? am i really agender? i see myself as bisexual and demisexual also. but is that really me. but if you look at my age i actually came out for the first time in 2006. there was no such thing as agender or even demisexual. at least not in the city or lgbt community i was in. i think agender is a newer term with in the last 4 to 5 years. so the way i felt back in 2006 wasnt even defined it was actually unknown. its 2016 so 10 years later there is an alphabet soup.
for myself i am scared to come back out. what will all the big named trans men in my city who know me think of me. i made the first step and went to the trans friendly place in my city. i knew one person there. but i got myself put on the trans waitlist. i am seeking out a trans friendly doctor. but there is someone at the clinic that i know who is a very important figure in the trans community in my city. so i am down right nervous to come across them. i wont have them as a doctor but i could see them. i am agender trans and i want top surgery. i always have wanted just top surgery since i came out. but i thought it made me ftm. but yeah i know that doesnt.
either way its 2016 and have my second coming out.... and its shit scary because i know how much ill lose since i lost everything twice already. i lost everying in 2006 when i came out as a lesbain. then in 2011 i lost all my friends again when i left the lgbt community. now its 2016 will i lose everything and be shuned.
i have some supporters. but i dont want to be seen as someone who is trying to get attention. so the lgbt community is scarier then the hetro world at least thats what i found.
Sky, my bed frame looks just like that
really?! It's my partner's old bed frame from when she was younger (I have my computer in our guest bedroom haha.) Small world!!
To be totally honest here, I have no problem with it except in the fact it's so hard on the body going back from a certain point.
I am a gay cis man who would love to go out with a younger trans guy for several reasons one of which is I am very attracted to FtM guys.
I think its okay but I understand that to an extent it may seem to invalidate most trans people, because some close minded people may be like "oh well my friend detransitioned, so you must have to do that too". But everyones circumstances are different and obviously they would need to understand that
Well if trans people don't want to be generalized, detransitioners also shouldn't be. I support people who are transgender but I made a personal mistake and it's not anyones business or concern but my own. We both are having a hard time here.
I am a transman and I been on T for a while and did my top surgery two and a half weeks ago. I identified as heterosexual before that and have only dated feminine girls, but sometimes I could crush on a person of any gender, girls, guys, cis or trans.. I think for me the fact that I now feel more complete in my role as male an in my own skin,I don't have to be protective of my own masculinity.. Maybe it sounds strange but yeah, my sexuality changed and I don't really mind it at all :P Why would I?
You mean before you did your top surgery you identified as a heterosexual female?
3-3-15 449pm
I love her
Is it just me or does the idea of "going back and forth", so to speak, have the possibility of having a negative impact on the equality movement as it stands today?
I have a question... Am I still considered Transgender if I don't go for surgery or T?
I recently came out to my parents about being trans... They seemed fine with it... Till I started telling them about top surgery and T... That's when they didn't agree lol... So we compromised.
I can get a breast reduction and dress like a guy... Thing is... I'm okay with it, but I'm wondering if I'm still a transitioning ftm or I'm just a crisscrossed. :(
Thanks
Levian
P.S. You're cute Arielle ^_^.
***** Okay, Thx :)
I feel better now
***** Um... no. Just my parents and I don't they're any where I live either... and I don't have a license.
I don't mind e-mailing tho, so if you could, I'll check it out.
Thx so much! :D *hugs*
I think the only issue is that the transphobes use detransitioning as a weapon against trans youth.
Whatever a person does with their life and body I wish them joy, love and support; every person deserves that. People shouldn't be marginalized for the choices they make and who they are. I don't have to understand to be supportive.
i love your tattoo
Gender is fluid. Period.
+Michiko Yeung people who detransition like Walt Heyer are a disgrace to the TS community and the majority of the time are backstabbers who end up condemning the idea of someone changing gender
no it's not
gender is defined by the DNA God has created it is not fluid.
Carl Vincenzo that is biological sex, not gender. Gender has nothing to do with anything physical. Oh and there is no God. DNA is thanks to billions of evolution
Oh I didn't know I was a backstabber. Glad to know. Way to generalize people.
There seems to be consensus in the comments about what the top 3 reasons are for de-transitioning being labeled as "bad".
1) The trans* community has worked hard to show that being trans* is not a choice, so someone who de-transitions makes it look, to the scrutinizing cis-het folks for example, like trans*ness is just phase that those people can grow out of. While being kind of understandable, this view seems really irrelevant to me since the people that are against the idea of trans* will always find another reason to hate us.
2) Communities around trans* people put a lot of effort in accommodating their chosen names, pronouns, etc., so some people in the community may feel like they are being asked to work even harder for this one de-transitioning person to be comfortable. This view is quite self-absorbed and can be committed by anyone, including other trans* people.
3) The younger generation of the trans* community have tons of wonderful people to look up to - like yourself - and therefore, they may feel a sort of betrayal if their 'idol' decides that de-transitioning is right for them. Again, this view is so selfish; they have thousands of trans* vlogs/blogs to follow if they so choose.
We'll it's the first time I even hear about detransitioning. I would love to know more about how these people must feel. I just assume that it is really difficult to get the body you want if you have to do one single transformation. I imagine it must be even harder to do this whole process twice. I also wonder wether this people compare their two bodies of the same sex (before transitioning and after detransitioning) and sometimes feel that their new body is not as good as the one they had in the first place? Anyways, I wish all the people who have to go trough this all the strength they need.
Overall, gender and sexuality are fluid. I don't like the word "phase" because it tends to add a negative connotation regardless of how you may mean it. I think it doesn't have to do with a phase but rather the fluidity of the whole thing in the first place. Nothing is black and white. I think it would be brave of someone to re-transition if their identity were to change. The change of identity would not be a choice but the transition would be. In that aspect, again, I think that person would be brave. Now if there really are people out there that transition to be "cool" or for whatever reason outside of it being their true identity, I would still respect them and whatever pronouns they prefer because respect, above all, is what counts. If they are disrespecting the community by thinking that being trans is the "cool" thing to do, they are only disrespecting themselves and their own gender identity. In that case, it is their problem, but I will never disrespect someones PGP's just because I think they might be transitioning for the wrong reasons.
wow sky is really good looking ..... *fans self* and this is a really interesting topic... I just really hate the idea of people being mean towards anyone who is de-transitioning.. It would be hard enough in the first place, let alone having friends and/or your lgbt community being mean towards you.
lower back ground music,please
I'm writing this comment from one of my best friend's house. She has two moms and I don't care. I love them both and their relationship. I just don't see how anyone can despise someone based on their sexuality or situation. I'm a straight girl and I'm completely open about anyone being homosexual or transgender. And coming from a straight girl, I think you are seriously hot. C: just saying.
Maybe negative reactions come from fear about that possibility of such a change being possible.
I learn all the time, now that I am around trans people, the limits in my own mind that I must break down.
Does anyone else think Sky resembles Evan Peters? :3
I think that any person is a world apart...we should all start to think more objectively about ourselves, and not waste time judging always the behaviors of others, only to allow us to say: "In his place I would never do this or that!" ... vivi e lascia vivere!
we must learn to discern that the people who are our inspiration, do not reflect at 100% our future or our path ... and this does not make them any less inspiring! =)
and that freedom that we always look and ask for... is also the kind of freedom to let others feel free to live theirselves.
(sorry, my english sucks! D= )
my brain hurts, but I will do my best to understand it :)
epic
Why identify in the first place? Can't you just fall in love with a person guy or girl and omit the label all together?I was born female. I have fallen in love with both genders. Never have identified as straight/lesbian. What I do sexually with a consenting partner is of no concern to the public.
+lisa P sexual orientation is NOT the same as sexual identity.