Washed Up Operators | Arknights
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- Siege and Lappland are super cool but a lot of people don't think so :(
Project Ark: space.bilibili.com/60400874
www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Up4... (CC#3 Week 1 R27 7 Operators)
25thNight: / @25thnight
• [Arknights] New Annihi... (Annihilation 4 Full Clear)
0:00 Intro
0:40 DPS is a Terrible Metric
4:21 Siege
8:52 Lappland
10:51 Why Do Niche Analysis?
#arknights
apparently i screwed up the time stamps
theyre fixed now lol
Thank you, Stultifera Navis, for making Lappland an MVP again.
ideal city to some extent too
Man, when silence works, IT WORKS.
After I got and raised Silverashe I find I don't use my e2 Lappland as much but man when those exploding bugs show up she is my first choice. Her silence is so nice.
Lappland Haters have become pretty quiet after the Suitera Navis event
as a new player just from mid december, lappland has been invaluable in ideal city
Nah, still e1 level 1. Cleared sn and the new Annihilation completely.
Don't hate her either though.
I know its late but Stultifera navis* 🏳
I didn't hate lappland...... But..... Sushi an existed soooo yeah I maxed sushiman so kept lappy at e1 70 sl7 since yeah I like Jaye and would use him over lappy
@@lovableairheadmile6809 isnt his silence only for infected creatures tho?
lapland died also because of unexplainable silence mechanics. it's annoying because you didn't know what enemy that can be or not silenced before you test this out in the battle
yeah, her silence is one of the reasons I raised her and carry me trough ch 4
now that the recent enemies sometimes can or can't be silenced
i'll just bring the big guns instead
Her use commonly just a spider silencer
New event enemies? I'm not gonna bother to bring lappland to test the water. Better bring the Big gun and blast them all to their grave
this, i stopped using lappland because the game doesn't tell you which enemies can be silenced or not.
the exploding enemies in wolumonde definitely should have been eligible for being silenced
@@Kaenbyou777Rin HG forget silence exist
Even though that event released about 6 months after debut
Rerolled for Siege specifically when I started and honestly, still don't regret it. I still do think she'll have the chance to shine in the spotlight again one day (whether that be an Alter or a Module), but for now she has been phased out as the normally go to pick for DP generation and lane holding. Though I will say, as a retired FGO player, her generalist role in today's Arknights makes her feel a lot like a certain Saber when it comes to usage...
Siege's very beginner friendly as a vanguard since she's already has her best skill at e1. Definitely helped me cleared through the story and early cc days
When you say a certain Saber, do you mean Artoria? Because she's pretty beefy strong, at least with the buff that she only has in JP right now. Even without she's pretty good
Another Guard Alter operator
Artoria has one of the highest AoE NP dmgs in the game and a prolific Vitch supported buster looper (with her charge and NP refund combined with her massive damage).
An alter doesn't do anything for the original siege, a buff would be a lot better... We really don't need another chalter/skalter situation
Lappland was actually so strong that the devs made the silence mechanic itself useless on most of the newer special effect enemies.
Amazing power.
As for Siege, meh.
It's just funny how S3 doesn't even generate DP lol.
Pioneer module waiting room.
Completely agree! Lappland is just too OP so I don't really use her lol makes game very boring. She's also bland as a character.
I love my Chen though have all 3 skills maxed. Love to 1 shot enemies with my S3
Siege s3 is sad
Dev look at lapp overuse at ch 4 and CC#0 : yeahhh, this is too OP. Nerf it!
@@XynRemained Surtr and Ch'en though? Pfffft no problem.
@@Khroniclas problem is, Lapp was OP because of this specific mechanic, while Surtr and Chen just have overblown numbers... Tho you could argue that the previous 2 events, Slug and under tides, were kind of a nerf for Surtr, ASP down, insta kill/stun if you do too much dmg, to cheese the immortality...
Siege's real problem is that, while before we had Saga, we could strictly buy her as "the Vanguard that does both damage and tanking," but now Saga strictly does just more damage. Effectively the Pioneer class is cut into two subclasses: the defensive wet blanket one (Siege, Zima, Courier), and the offensive glass cannon (Saga, Texas, Scavenger). The thing is, since they're 6*, they get extra stuff that undercuts the class flaw. Siege has fairly strong skill multipliers and uptime, while Saga has the dodge that does help her survive some amount while Texas gets mauled by dogs. There just is very little of a use case for Siege in a world where Saga and Mountain (cheaper than Siege, holds 2, attacks equal to block count AND self-heals, with the only downside of not being a DP generating Vanguard), and Saga even does the "spammable S2" thing better since she can just leave the SP pills for her allies, and a Vanguard tank has its limits. The only way to arguably fix Siege would be to give her some sort of self-healing in a limited way or form so that Mountain doesn't delete her.
The thing about Lappland is that people pretend silence has been utterly deleted from the game, which is completely untrue. The problem is that silence works on a per-ability basis (which is different from enemies themselves having silence immunity) and Hypergryph doesn't fucking think it would have been a good idea to communicate what abilities are silenceable, which is generally a problem of how garbage the enemy kit documentation is in the game itself. You need an external wiki to know specifically everything Talulah or Patriot actually do, because "Enemy Intelligence" won't tell you. That, and because Lapipi having effectively 100% silence uptime on one enemy means that Lappland ruined silence for everyone. If she hadn't trivialized spider stages, maybe we would have had silenceable Wolumonde shamans. But they nerfed silence. And as a result, Waai Fu, Ceobe, and Podenco along with it.
My best example of it is DH-S-2. The boats are reskinned bullies, and the dockworkers are reskinned defense crushers, to the extent that like defense crushers, their stun on third hit is a silenceable ability. As for suicide boats, they're also silenceable. The game uses both of these as the main threat, meaning I would have *loved* having two Lapplands. But, when I asked around, no one knew those abilities were silenceable? Maria Nearl had silenceable abilities as well. I'm pretty sure Under Tides did too. God forbid the game communicated anything about those. It would have cost nothing to change the color of "the boats explode" in the enemy description vomit-colored to signal silenceability or something.
Not too long ago, I complained in 7ucky's comments that his Corroserum showcase was effectively a DPS comparison with Ifrit, which *obviously* he can't win, and there wasn't a single time in the showcase where his silence came into play. Someone argued to me "but silence doesn't exist in current content" even if chapter 9 had come out not that long ago, and DID have silenceable enemies. But you'd have to look up a wiki to know that.
pretty much this, most enemies in the upcoming chapter 9 have the skill which increases their RES to 75, corroserum is more or less made to counter that, meaning he, (and Ifrit with her ridiculous RES debuff but that's a different story) is a very reliable Arts damage source there due to most other casters running into that RES wall.
I use Lappland regardless since the double Arts attack was helpful in waves already slowed by the water gimmick, but it took forever to even notice that she was silencing the exploding boats in DH-EX-7 with all the choas and the very few visual indicators.
Only by now that i know Defender crusher & Dockworkers are silence-able
@@adityawiryawan560 Exactly.
Wait...those bullies were SILENCABLE?!
Another thing to keep in mind about Seige and Saga, is just how much more deliberately meta Saga’s kit is compared to Seige. I used Saga on some decently high-risk clears last CC, and there were like 2 more traits you didn’t even have to mention that make Siege completely unusable in the role Saga excels in.
Basically:
-her S3 actually generates DP (plus multitargeting)
-her talent gives her surprisingly good survivability (though it is RNG)
While it was agonizing when I would lose a run because Saga decided not to dodge 4 attacks in a row, these two traits together make her MUCH more suited to the role of CC DPS vanguard than Siege is, since she can facetank for MUCH longer than Siege can (due to her talent providing a LOT of heal and dodge) with MUCH better burst DPS since she can actually use her S3 (and consistent damage options don’t usually cut it in max risk CC).
Honestly, Siege’s S2 is not suited for that role in the first place (despite it being her only meta niche after Flagpipe!), but people had to use it because it was the only option she had to generate DP. Siege is just really held back by her S3 not generating DP. Honestly, I think they should patch it in so that it does, she needs it. I’m quite the fan of her, and I have found use for her once or twice despite also having Saga raised, but it’s really quite a shame that she was clearly designed before the devs knew what people would want out of a six star Pioneer. Well, at least she’s still perfectly usable, especially if you don’t want to use Flagpipe.
(Also i never want to deal with Saga dodge RNG again please no)
Idk man I just put my siege s2 and afk her lol. I feel like thats the main reason most other siege users still use her (other than not having saga I guess)
Another point: Saga S3 even mimics Flagpipe to some extent. When she defeats an enemy, the last hitter gains 2SP. In CC5 you can put Myrtle or Ely beside her and it'd work really well. Siege unfortunately sucks there.
But Saga dodging 4 attacks gives me orgasm.
Also Saga can leak enemies if you put her too close to blue box and the enemies are dogs
PAIN
sounds like a good module idea, s3 generates dp. but idk how they would implement it
In Lappy's case, even without the silence, being a ranged guard with arts damage already makes her among the top 5 stars and even above some 6 stars in overall usefulness. Her baseline is great and she only gets better if the silence is relevant. The only reason people think she's weak is that ranged guards and guards in general are loaded with insane units.
As for Siege, well, she can still work. She got pushed hard by the DP printer meta, but she can still do her job. No DP generation on S3 hurts though
Edit: although funnily enough, Seige is the vanguard I'm using in the current Annihilation run BECAUSE she makes autos most consistent. Go figure
Nah theres saga
She takes siege job mostly
For lapp, theres arene now but she often get forgotten bcs how saturated guard with broken operator (even SA and thorns are both ranged guard)
If you peeps dont have lappland yet, Arene is a good substitute (with the added bonus of manual activation skill for s2 instead of lappland's s2)
The problem is she is so inconsistent. her S2's auto activation makes her worst than Arene in many cases.
the thing that make lappland is worse than 4 stars arene is her auto activated and enemies hit S2. it's a BIG nerf on her that make other think arene is better
if it's the usual mana skill, then it's better because we had ptilopsis as her backer. but no, it had to be enemies hit mana regen. so yeah, kinda useless without her silence and skill activated
@@tehqont0l419 she would need Archetto's talent but for guards
And then Stultifera Navis happened and if you didn't have Lappland or enough high stat beat sticks you were absolutely not clearing SN-7 the first time you ran it.
Who cleared sn7 at the first try? Even if they did, doesnt justify Lapp, there a lot of ops who can fulfill the niche she had in the event, people probably used her in the event and never use her again after it. When i got her i lvled her to e1 lvl70 but never used her, i used Arene and Ayerscarpe more than her, yeah she has good damage, but the atk recovery kills her dmg output since you cant controll when the skill procs. The silence is good when you want to silence an enemy who takes a lot of time to die, but you can use cheaper ops for that(Jaye for infinite silence, Podenco/Waii Fu for group silence).
Maybe i didnt use her much and dont understand her enough, but her silence niche and atk recovery really limits her when you dont need the silence in general content.
@@Xiol02 Lappland doesn't drain DP when deployed nor is her silence on a skill.
@@psychocrysis2 Fair, but besides her silence niche she cant offer much, at least thats what i see it as, i used her only a handful of times from support so maybe i judge badly but if there isnt a strong need for long range silence then its better to bring someone else
welp, I had no idea what could be silenced so I just don't use silence
Used jaye sooo yeah
I love how everyone who makes a video about Siege never mentions her S3 simply because they most likely don't even know that she has S3 to due how unpopular and uncomfortable it is to use.
it’s her go-to skill in vanguardknights but not many people look specifically in that direction
@@HiImYii i as an vanguardknights and abyssal hunters enjoyer, i use both siege Skills and have her M6, depending of the situation, I use one or another (siege S3 with bagpipe can be a decent helidrop)
IMO, the best solution would be add a module for siege where improves her talent and gives her 2 SP and 2DP on kill (in this way, we can Sort out a way to Make siege more useful for both S2 and S3)
Tbh Lappland's silence is just an icing for me since she has a reliable twin target arts damage that is quite spammable, more so in a busy lane with liskarm which turns her to almost perma twin target ground caster.
A fun combo I like to use is Reed and Zima. Reed’s niche is being able to gain 2DP per kill, and with Zima, she gets 3DP per kill. Add that plus full refund, and Zima S2 and you have an impressive amount of DP on your hands. Not only that, Zima S2 makes the two stacked with +60% ATK and DEF. This making Reed hit even harder and therefore more DP, AND giving the two much more survivability with the added defense. A perfect combo I’d say, but it’s unfortunate such synergy is overshadowed by Bagpipe and the flag bearers existing.
Unfortunately, once the 1-block vanguards get their modules, all of them (except Reed and Vigna) will be able to generate 2dp on kill, meaning this is no longer a unique mechanic for Reed and Bagpipe, a very strong vanguard already, can replace her.
@@nutmegmachine218 Ugh, if only Reed and Vigna have the same module as Bagpipe’s…
As a Reed lover, I'm definitely going to try out this combo. Thanks for the tips!
Ah I also use Reed and Zima, I love this combo so much
Look at you sorting through the top comment to find comments about lappy in Stultifera Navis event
don't blame ya. Lappy E2 is a monster in those stages. Lappy Supremacy Bois :)
You guys use Lappland for silence, I use lappy just to annoy Texas in battle.
We are not the same 🗿
Both Lappland and Siege are feeling their age these days, but each has their place:
For Lappy, while silence _(The effect, not the Medic.)_ is less blanket useful than it once was, when it is applicable it tends to be _very_ useful. For instance, currently the explosive -slugs- boats in Dossoles can be silenced.
As for Siege, while the Standard Bearer meta has had a profound effect on her overall usage, I find that she has a few really neat applications. First, with her Skill 2 being automatic, she requires no micro-management and lends herself really well to consistent auto clears. Second, when paired with the ubiquitous Bagpipe, Siege can be used as a Helidrop Bonker with her S3 when at M3.
I feel that a great deal of the flak these two units receive is less due to themselves, and more due to what they have to compete against within their own Archetypes and applications. Lappy has to compete with the likes of SilverAsh and Thorns while Siege has to compare to Saga and the Standard Bearer Meta.
Here's hoping that the module system might breath some new life into these units in the future. Cheers everyone!
Edit: Missed a word.
Siege is just a product of early days Arknights not knowing what a good vanguard is. When you look at it, the OG 6 stars units tended to follow one idea. Be the ultimate version of their archetype (Exu, Eyja, Saria, SA, Hoshi... All of these were just their archetype but blatantly "stronger").
But what is a good vanguard besides generating DP? HG didn't seem to have a clear answer at the time, resulting in Siege having mechanics that are really questionable today compared to the more refined, specialized vanguards we get today.
Does that mean she sucks now? Of course, everyone keeps pointing that out that she's still perfectly usable, but she aged poorly, very poorly.
I have two things to say:
1. Siege is actually very good. Power-crept, sure. But she is a solid DP and DPS tool that is easy to use in any number of situations. I even used her for CC#5 Risk 18.
B. I had no flipping clue you could Silence the bombs. I just beat the second Challenge mission this morning. That would have been good to know to save me a headache.
or getting shafted, seeing reed pretty much become irrelevant
@@lawgx9819 All 5* operators kinda get screwed over. The bloated middle of the pack rarity, with many almost but not quite occupy the exact same niche, only for the 6* variant to blow them out of the water. It's only the ones with the most unique niches that'll hold up like Specter and Elysium.
@@franciscoherrera7670 about B, i relate a lot. every event, i find out that there's an enemy that can be silenced AFTER i've done the stages. especially the exploding boats, which i always tried to stop with mountain (ex. DH-S-4, where the boats don't even reach the blue box, but i didn't know that either).
GOLDEN AGE WILL RETURN AGAIN-Lappland probably
I still use Lappy as my main ranged guard.. dog can nearly double her own damage and turn it into arts damage.. placed with liskarm, then she turns into guard ceobe
funfact : s3 siege still can charge her skill even still active with her talent that means she can quick active her skill again and kill weak enemy in early game
Interesting…
Now imagine if it gives DP
@@beefystu559 I mean Zima’s S2 seems to be made for Siege.
Siege s2 in rainbow 6 annihilation is flipping party lol.
Coming in here to say OH BOI LAPPY IS SAVING ME ON SPECTRA NAVIS CONTENT WHEWWWWW that 80% dodge RNG is brutal.
I left AK for almost 2years and when I came back I found out that most of my operators are outdated and washed up really broke my heart, especially because i like Siege because she's my first 6stars.
I also too coming to arknights just to see my beloved lappland being ridiculed because of her silence is not really reliable anymore... oh well everyone is just spamming the meta these days. I don't blame them but is sad to see old operators is underpowered unlike the newer ones that is almost broken.
Lapland still have some uses especially in the desert rainbow seige collab.. as for Seige, she suffered the problem of not working very well in her class as an Vanguard with a odd S3 which most people never use because of Rng stun and no dp.
dunno bout seige cause i dont have her but i would say lappy is still pretty useful even in the dossoles event she can be used to silence those bomb thingies
also i just really like her design lol
siege is pretty good, she do thing with great result, but our community trash her a lot after saga come out just because saga is a bit better somehow good is not enought so they want exceptional, and this is one of 2 time the community completely ruined a operator for me, saga and surtr (not counting chalter because she isnt healthy for my play through) i legit dont even want to roll a banner if they apear.
Lappland may be insanely strong as an operator but I find her very basic and boring to use. Both gameplay and personality wise!
For me, its Chen. She's fun and have a great personality.
@@RuminasVall Nah Siege got shit on since people use Bagpipe and Flagbearers. Saga just add salt on the wound cuz she is just a better Siege.
Damn it HG, why can't Siege S3 gives DP like Saga.
Bro I even come to an extent that I had e0 lv1 Thorns(coz I got him from Rosmontis banner) and also e2 m3 lv75 pot4 Lappy just to flex
@@beefystu559 nah for me bag do make a problem but not that big of a problem cus they do thing differently and better than other in different case and it was a game of preference, the real problem is since saga because they are almost the same, flagbearer is just built different i would argue that myrtle is the most impactfull thing ever being added to the game in the big scene.
I love these videos. Keep making them please. Another one like this and you will convince me to E2 my Siege after nearly two years of E1. Lappland I am already looking at bringing up to E2 for IS2.
The strength of the operators really are measured in their impact on stages. Myrtle is a top tier operator and she have horrible stats.
Unless you count DP generation as a stat, which just makes sense for vanguard units.
I'd say Lappland was actually pretty good right now for Dossoles Holiday, because she does nicely counter both Dockworker (high Def, annoyîng stun) and Suicide Boats, as both of those are silencable.
Lapland’s not dead anymore cause of SN
I got Lapland and Texas when i started playing the game, even if i changed them to Saga and Thorns after a year, doesn't make them bad, they ARE 5*, GOOD 5* (Lap and Specter are broken for 5* in my opinion), not like everyone have Saga, Siege, Bigpape or Thorns. And still, i find some place for them sometime, cuz i love this operators too much. We were together for too long, to disrespect them and say: "They are.... Meh...". You know....
I agree brother.
Another funny thing that the community seems to completely forget is that this is a gacha game, not everyone has every frickin character.
"Siege is shit compared to saga", who cares, God knows when or if I'll get a saga. If I do I just build her as well.
"Lapland is useless compared to Thorns", literally 5* x 6*, ofc Thorns is better but again, who guarantees you'd get a Thorns? Specially in a game where everyone advocates for "waifu over meta" and even then has so many "must pull best in slot".
Well that kind of assessment should be made by each individual player on a case by case basis, usually when people say "x" operator is bad compared to "y" they mean it in a generalist way, of course Siege is exponentially more valuable if you don't have Saga or any other pioneer. Lappland's case is a bit more extreme since there really is no one that can replace Thorns' versatility so people end up just having to do another strategy altogether a lot of the time. "Waifu over meta" and "must pull best in slot" are 2 completely different demographics within the community so yeah, you'll get different answers depending on who you ask.
hehe saga s3, siege s2, warfarin are my secret weapon... put these 3 together and you have a nuclear dp generator. They are like a hamburger ...
in a certain server, specifically its help channel, this becomes a problem more often than not. at the end of the day imho answering questions with whatever approach you are using whether it's simplified solely taking general content as the root or overcomplicated by considering the niches and other variables to take into account, it depends on who is asking. it might be just me who happens to be a hermit in a single server hence why i can easily adjust my answers depending on who's asking because i have got too much time on my hand that i have come to recognize each member's needs and what they usually seek for answers but the sad truth is most just can't be bothered and only try to help with what they think is best for themselves and not for the inquirer--- and when this happens, it pains me.
i love your video and surely you have become on of those we can turn into if we are lazy to guide the lost lambs and refer them to your vids instead. stay awesome.
honestly that server is def not the type of place you want to ask complex questions in. I once got bombarded by angry users for saying "instead of leveling Jaye you should use him in the base for increased lmd farming". People desperately want to be the correct one in an conversation even if its not an argument in the first place, regardless of how I explain my ideas it will just devolve back into "but Jaye good" even when its been proven majority of them dont even use him.
This goes back to people arguing "never build Mostima" or "saria S2 is way better" (altho it died down a bit). Its almost as if people dont realize that this is a game without objective choices in building operators for the most part, most likely since they usually play games where you can just easily construct a tier list for characters
I remember getting so supremely pissed off sometime around CC3 when people kept comparing Spectre and Blaze, glad to see someone keeping that from happening with Lapland and Saga
But spectre and blaze from the same archetype, just like siege and saga or lapland and other ranged guards. I don't get what your point is.
@@Besend522 While I never felt pissed that people compare Specter and Blaze since it feels reasonable enough, I think other people feel that way since despite being in the same Archetype, they still function differently and both have uses. It's more so getting pissed when other people say X unit is obsolete because of Y unit.
@@xykros yea, I fell ya. Imo you can compare same archetype and look what character can fill in more situations, but that doesn't mean that one character is just makes others obsolete. Especially when it's the talk about two very good picks like Blaze ans Specter.
Somehow I ended up on your channel, but after watching two or three vids, I like your style... plus those adorable jibber jabber chibis sold me at the end.
Liked and Subscribed.
As a Lappland main (i will build the team around her), i appreciate you defending her. Seriously though, you may just be the best person to turn beginners to, and the community needs a lot of those.
@@kyarumomochi5146 man, you have no creativity whatsoever. Seeing and assigning one and only one purpose for operators shows that you really don't appreciate the strategy part of this game.
@@kyarumomochi5146 saying an operator has one and only one purpose in an open ended strategy game is being less strategic.
@@kyarumomochi5146 First of all, I never said that you said that Lappland is useless, you just did that yourself.
Second of all, if you want to talk about twisting words
"Lapplands sole purpose is really to silence slugs tough
Its normal that she fallen off meta"
That is what you said, i even copy pasted it so i can avoid any mistakes.
I said
"man, you have no creativity whatsoever. Seeing and assigning one and only one purpose for operators shows that you really don't appreciate the strategy part of this game."
That's it. How is that twisting words? You truly did insinuate that sole purpose of lappland is to just to negate one type of enemy. Hell, i agree that Lappland has fallen off, which is why i never criticized you about that part.
You're uncreative, which is what i called you. I never called you useless and i never called you wrong.
Man, you're tripping over your own words at this point. Don't even reply anymore.
@@kyarumomochi5146 Lappland is one of the best lords in-game in terms of consistent damage. Ayerscarpe's situation can't really be summarized in a paragraph because they fill different niches, but his ability to deal with hordes and his manual activation, in my opinion, isn't really a reason to pick him over Lappland's damage. Silverash's damage primarily comes from his 3rd skill which is not consistent at all, usually reserved as a one time use for most content. The only real operator that objectively surpasses lappland is thorns.
Now you might be confused, i just proved your argument for you, what the fuck am i even talking about. Well news flash, that's the point i'm trying to fucking make too. Silence *is* useless most of the time, Lappland *is* overshadowed by thorns. I agree with that. The problem i have is you come here and cause trouble. Like what? What are you even here for? You're acting like i'm out here spreading lies about how lappland is better than she actually is when in my original comment, i didn't even mention anything about her quality as an operator. You come here unprompted and act smug when you yourself are not even saying anything. Back off, prick.
Okay. Stand back. I'm gonna blow your mind. You can use Thorns _and_ Lappland.
I've been using siege for the past 2 years and I still ever doubt if I'll switch her out lol
To the "why are you playing this using such detailed information" question: Some people (myself included) just like being powerful. Crushing things under my boot is how I get my satisfaction out of this game and the harder the crush the more it's satisfying. I don't play games, especially game like this, for a a challenge, I play them to relax. Watching a new boss get melted in two seconds by Silver, Surtr, and Chenalter is vastly more stratifying to me then the one time I bothered clearing a max contingency. That was in fact the most pissed off I'd ever been in this game and the only thing I felt once it was over was a sense of relief with a promise to _never_ do that again. There was no satisfaction only annoyed frustration even after I'd actually won.
Satisfaction is different for everyone and reasons need not be the same to reach for similar goals. You want to understand all the games details so you can push the game/yourself to the limits and beat the literal hardest challenges available to you. I want to understand the games details so that I can smash the game into pieces without effort and laugh as it throws waves of helpless mooks against my vastly superior forces.
Also Lappland died because her power scared the Devs. If silence as a mechanic was actually allowed to work properly she'd be one of the best units in the game. Sadly, they made sure anything you'd actually want to use it on is immune.
I think you mean you are smooth brained
@@Zoeila I believe you're projecting there, boyo. Don't worry, happens to the... well I'd say "best of us," but you're clearly not in that category anyways. You'll have to settle for mediocrity I fear.
@@dragoon3219 bro really thinks he knows a person from just 8 words. stop judging people and get off your high horse.
@@Phiro00 This comment would make more sense if the original commenter wasn't clearly responding to someone that just called them stupid (with no provocation) for not enjoying gameplay where you need to spend an unenjoyable amount of time (usually multiple hours) trying to finish a single stage out of 200+ unique levels in a gacha mobile game of all things.
Trust me, if you're going around looking for people stuck up on moral high horses, coming to this comment thread to defend a gameplay-style gatekeeper is not the place to start.
Sadly, I have replaced siege with saga for almost every map I play. However, I never rolled thorns and I don't feel compelled to since I love my Lappland :). For someone who plays relatively casually, I find a lot of joy in just choosing the operators that I like the most vs. being a meta-slave.
Great analysis in this video btw!
still use siege a lot, paired with texas. enough survivability before i could deploy mudrock and other ops with ridiculous amounts of dp needed
@@kyarumomochi5146 dont have mountain and saga
@@kyarumomochi5146 yeah, i always bring bagpiep
Thank you for your analysis! I like them and thank you for going out of your way to explain all that.
I for one love to use Siege when one needs a tanky vanguard. ^^ Even if by a bit she has higher defense and HP than Saga.
Still surprised You are making good nonstandard content. Thx mate!
Arknights always struck me as the game that offers you a problem, a plethra of solutions, and the limitations being team building: when I began playing, I followed a bunch of guides to understand how skills works, how the whole "deployment on enemy unit" gimmick was useful for....
Sure, there will always be some math class workaholic that will try to shove down graphs and tests down your throat, but on my end, I just like to expand my roster of operators bit by bit to give myself more options on the field.
If we wanna bring Lappland's example, she is clearly not "as powerful as Silversash or Thorns", but in some situations like the Originum Dust event, I was glad I built her up because her silence pretty much demolished the parasite dropping enemies.
The good thing in Arknights is how each operator has a base value and shives in specific situations. of course, most of the situations have too many answers, which is why when people say "Boss Killing", only a few operators comes to mind, as "able to kill a tanky boss as fast and safely as possible" is a criteria not every op has...
But in the end, People should build how they want , and play how they want, so they can have fun. Sure, it might not guarantee an easy clear of high end content, but honestly?
Why do you play a game if it's to not enjoy yourself.
Great analysis video.But as a extensive siege user,there are some points I disagree with you.
5:45 Three squad place is mostly not a problem outside of high CC just like you said but also kinda not there as well bcs of how broken individual ops like chantler,thorns,mountain and surtr are.Also,you kinda forgot bagpipe as a operator is still also friggin powerful enough to become a dps and Elysium is also a debuffer.So that trio,even being just vanguards,still fills different roles.
6:04 That CC-3 lane position is wayy too geared towards siege to shine tho.And even than.Mountain can steamrolled that lane and let just mrytle be the DP printer which is still cheaper than siege+ange combo mind you.
6:52 Gladia and cutter is indeed stretching too far but not so much for mountain.Dude is a reason pioneer as a whole almost get shelfed.Cheaper than siege and wayyy better lane holding capability than any vanguards that you can start worrying about dp only after dropping him.
8:05 Actually that her skill being automatic is what killed her.Her dp generating power being tied to her atk skill means she can't do shit when there's no enemy coming to her way.That problem is relevant ESPECIALLY in annihilation since most of anni maps have long wave down time where no enemies spawn and give enough time for pioneers and flagbearers reprint their dps before sending in big guys which is usually too much for any pioneer to handle.Well all pioneers EXCEPT siege with S2 bcs she can't do Regen any shit and just sat there like an lost lion cub.
Having mountain lets me not bring vgs at all in a lot of stages .
I've never thought about Siege's sitting duck issue until i pulled Saga. Up until then Siege was placed as a guard op that had low DP cost, the DP gain was a nice bonus on the side.
Agreed. Number isn't everything
I rather choose operators that comfortable to use (Auto skill short CD, consistent, stationary, with reliable block count) even if the number isn't that high instead of those with very dynamic gameplay (SA, Eyja S3, Surtr, etc.) Well indeed i use them if the stage feels so extreme and need very often repositioning but on normal stage without bosses, Thorns and/or his stationary friends will do everything you need.
As someone who still uses Siege regularly, the only complaint I have about her S2 is that it only activates when enemies are in her default range, instead of activating when there are enemies in its actual range like Murdock S2.
late af but i think its important to note that lappy is still quite relevant for people still progressing, ranged guards with art damage are often very helpful and there are quite a few stages (namely splodey spider ones) that can act as a sort of wall that she makes doable.
She come back again in stultifera navis. Cheesing entire event with her
Lappy and the Silence mechanic will get relevant again in chapter 9. I'd even say it's required because they're like the Mansfield Inmates otherwise.
Yo, Lappland helped me out a lot in that one dossoles stage, any stage with spiders, and the freaking LAST stage in chapter 8. Thank you, crazy wolf-waifu
Lapplands design was one of the first things i ever saw of AK, and i dont have thorns. Siege alongside Zima helped carry me big time so those 2 hold special spots in my squad. Sometimes its about making the best team for content and sometimes its just making stuff work with your favorites.
Lappland will always be my arts ranged guard, even though I have thorns, lappland will always have a place in my squad.
Siege was the reason I started playing Arknights & she was my first 6*. I will never let her go.
youtube really likes recommending your videos to me, not that I am complaining
I love it. I wish it was possible to have these conversations with the community without getting shut down. I agree 100% though I do still compare Lappland to Ceobe S3 because you would take those probably for similar reasons even if they are different classes, but I also agree there are cases where Lappland would be better than Ceobe, and vice versa. For me the argument for Ceobe is the thorns like range, and for Lappland it is not needing any timings, and having an extra 2 blocker.
I got Siege in one of my first pulls and I've used her every time I attempt a level. I don't actually use her for DP production anymore, but rather as a strong dps guard with a side benefit of additional DP on attack. In terms of actually producing DP, she's extremely situational as she's extremely reliant on enemies, but the vanguard stat boost and AOE attack can't be overlooked. She's honestly more like a cheap but powerful guard than a legitimate vanguard.
In short, Siege's place in the current meta, I'd say, is for supporting other vanguards while holding lanes. It helps that she does decent damage and is surprisingly durable.
if ya place her well she can almost work like a baby blaze if she is being fed enough dead to help her spam her S2. like with those damn slugs. it didnt matter that she was slowed cus the skill would tick the second it had enough energy so i would just plant her in front of blaze and watch her fix my "clogging" issue.
I dont think there's a replacement for either. All these months/years later and there are very few vanguard options(even fewer great ones), and while there are some Ops similar to Lappland, the auto activation is still unique and good.
The only way Lappland could be better would be if we get some sort of version of her as a 6 star berserker suicider similar in a way to Sutr.
I raised lapp when I started, carried me through most midgame, fell off near the end, and now fills niche roles in some stages like in the (as of right now) current event, Chalter event, she can silence the stun sailors which is basically my entire strategy for all the levels that had them. And sometimes I use her to deal with defense crushers too since my account has a lack of burst arts damage because guardknights ftw. No choice but to try and turtle Def. crushers.
In short, I might not use lapp a lot but if and when I do, she shines very bright. No regrets.
I have an irrational hate for using lappland because her skill activation takes extremely long to charge; and is automatic. While her on-skill damage is very high.
When I used to use her, the situation was basically: She hits enemies, skill activates, lane cleared in 3 hits with skill on, the rest of the time you sit there watching lappland's skill bar drain as she's hitting nothing.
That's the reason why I value arene more; you get a lot more consistency in being able to use your arts damage when it matters. Even if lappland does more damage...
I just fixed that with Liskarm/Warfarin to improve skill uptime
m3 her lmao
what do you even need the rest of her skill duration for? her s2 is mostly helpful for killing those pesky high def enemies or those with chonky hp bars, and or even drone nuking. and anything else than that being bothersome should fall under the category of "lol bro, time your deploys better" heh
regardless, even i, who almost exclusively used lappland when i started out, stopped using her after my 3rd month playing, yet she still pops up time and time again. Just learn the stage better and use her if needed, or use someone else. that's all. no need to hate her pretty decent kit over it
@@Istreakilaz The whole "learn her placement timing better" is pointless, because the whole issue is that whenever a wave of enemies comes in, she's likely starting with 0 SP, due to the SP on attack thing.
Realistically, I just don't see a good reason why I would use her over arene nowadays if I really want a guard that does arts damage. (where high phys like thorns/SA wouldn't work, ofcourse). Her kit wasn't bad when the game released, however it is pretty mediocre now.
That's the exact thing to learn afterall. place her with a good headstart that she will trigger her skill at the correct time. her skill isn't that heavy costing too as, and it charges up quickly (and even goes beyond 50% uptime at m3, but that's a investment you really REALLY need to consider much nowadays)
well, you do you, but her kit is still fine and does it's job well. it al defends on how you use her
Thanks for showing love for my girl Siege. She was my first operator e the first I E2L60.
lappland is one of my first 5 stars, my first e2, my first m3, and my first 200% trust. i have no regrets
Lapp's silence was so op the devs started breaking their own rules and now you can never know wich skills can be silenced and wich are inexplicably inmune.
It has been said before and it’ll be said again, Lappland is once more useful in the IC event. Say goodbye to the annoying dodge.
Many people don't have Thorns. Many people don't have Bagpipe. Then there's me, who doesn't have either.
I DO have Siege and I DO have Lappy.
Guess which pair of Operators I prefer to use? Now, I've only played a few months, I'm taking my time building up a useful, leveled, roster. Everything I've done could probably be done in at least half the time I've taken. That's fine.
What I see every day is "the Meta has changed", "Skadi is thr worst 6☆ in the game", "your roster will never be good because you don't have _______".
Maybe so. Guess I better learn how to use what I do have and... will you lookit that? I'm beating event stages too!
Don't like 'em, don't use 'em. And I like Lappy and Siege both. They don't suck.
I used Siege a lot on my early Arknights days since there was no Blaze or Thorns, and I also didn't have many other good Guards options to hold the line while dealing damage, so she was that operator for me. Now that I have those two, and others such as Mudrock and Kalt'sit, Vanguard operators ended up going more for the "just generate DP" role, which Bagpipe and Myrtle fit very well. Sometimes Bagpipe can even hold the line since her SK3 is very strong and fast to activate. Thus, I don't find much usage for her nowadays, but I agree with what you said.
She is that mix of I want to gain DP without clicking and hold a bit of a line as well, a case like Blemishine/Podenco/Jaye where she shines more when you don't have acess to many operators, like in IS. She is also the best S1 passive generating DP without clicking, but that's a even more niche use. And her SK3... exists, I guess. Kinda a sad state to be since I really like her design, but yeah, she ended up in a weird spot, even more after Saga. One of those not so talked operators that could really use some buffs to add on her usage.
Lapp is a operator that should be pretty strong but ends up being trashed because enemies who have annoying passives can't be silenced, so she exists to silence spiders and that's kinda of it. And yeah, on early days her DPS was (and still is) pretty good, but now you have Thorns and pew pew go go.
I think people primarly talking about general usage is not so wrong, since that's pretty much most of the game, with a good portion of people ending up not even touching the part of the game where those small differences between operators actually make a diference. A lot of players only do the necesary risks on CC, which most of the time or even 100% of the time will not require you to go that deep into the gameplay, thus making the general argument somewhat valid. Not like the reverse argument, aka this operator performs better in this situation than the other, should be ignored, but I think most people get that certain operators can do better than others in certain situations, the question is more how often you get into that situation and how good they become in that scenario to consider using said operator instead of what you use in every stage or if the fact that they do well in that niche is even relevant. Kinda also goes into the how people defines which operators are boss killers and which aren't; players will normaly considerer operators alone in a "general" state, thus why Exusiai isn't normally caracterized as such since she needs some setup to shine. And that's kinda fine. Arknights is balanced for you to be able to clear it on your own way, so they give you a lot of space and thus "general" usage operators and scenarios are born, which do end up composing most of the game, and that's better than gatekeeping people from clearing certain stages because they don't have a specific X or Y operator.
i rarely use siege nowadays(bcs i have flagpipe and saga), my go to usually is flagpipe and/or saga and usually thats more than enough VG in my squad. But Siege is still a 6*. Means she is strong enough to help you in stages, as a vanguard, and not everyone has all vanguards, neither do they have to have them. Work with what you have.
Lappland is yeah, as u mentioned, outshined by thorns. I only will pick lappland when i really really need a reliable silence.
Wow I am surprised this is a thing. I have had thorns since his first banner and my usage for Lappland hasn’t really dropped since. Granted I didn’t use her very frequently to begin with but she still sees consistent use on my account. Angelina is an interesting one. I somehow through a stroke of good luck (because it’s six star) and bad luck (because it’s always her) ended up having her max pot very early in game. I used her somewhat not that often to begin with but I feel like with newer content I almost never see an opportunity to bring her at all. She is still good, I just don’t think we have enough relevant content for skills like that anymore.
I've found great use for siege most of the way through the game... especially since I got her to e2 before with only popukar to fill the roll of aoe guard. And if it's my first time on a level, she is a go to as I dont know if I need dp or laneholding or moderate dps first, and she's pretty okay at all of them.
Lappland I have at e2 and do like having the silence though it takes a bit to see if it works, but mainly I want that multi target arts damage to thin lanes out. I now have Thorns, but he's being put off for now because Lappland is still good enough for most things.
I've known about Siege and Lappy even before starting arknights and i definitely don't regret raising them. I've used them both constantly and they'll soon be my first two e2s
Ty as always Yii for the analysis! My biggest issue with these discussions is when people think operators are literally unplayable because a "better" operator exists. This can prevent newer players from even giving them a chance.
Like you said context matters. Who the best pro basketball player is may matter for the NBA finals, but if you're just going to a pickup game against some 10-year olds... Not so much.
Another thing with the flagpipe crew is that for example on 6:03
You struggle to find safe place for them, or at least I do, I generally mess up one or two times before finding an backline spot for Myrtle and Elysium seeing as they aren’t quite meant to fight the enemy.
While Siege don’t have a spot on my squad every stage anymore, she and Texas is the plan b when Flagpipe crew doesn’t work, ex: an stage where enemy rushes the early waves)
As for Lappland… I haven’t used her in a longtime now since Thorns, I never really used her for her talents since the enemies that needs to be silenced has decreased over the course of the new events, heck, I don’t think I have ever needed an operator for silence since like, the exploding spiders in chapter 5, 6 or 7.
Took me longer than it should've to remember the song that was used at 2:21 and the outro
It's the one used from Rainbow Chicken Dance in case anyone was curious.
0:19 - 0:23
Heh, that joke hits too close to home for me
Lappys silence is still relevant from time to time.
something else about siege is that while her s3 doesnt generate dp, if you buff squad her due to the way the math works on that skill she gets very silly numbers. it's not super practical but its fun
After the most recent event in which silence became relevant due to the enemies that have an 80% chance to dodge, I can say that there is finally an event in which Lappland plays a core role.
Siege was my first 6 star and I got Lapland when her banner first dropped and they have both carried me to chapter 9 and nearly every event I’ve played
Didn't know we had video essays in Arknights YT
My first 6 star is SA and first 5 star is swire (excluding amiya), both guards with more than one tile range which made my strats revolve around long-range guards. Lappland fits very well with my strats and yes I did not understand silence logic at all. I only used her for her range and decent consistent damage. She's chilling in my squad with texas to this day
I love using siege and myrtle as a combo. Siege can’t really be used as the main vanguard most of the time, but she can be used hold the line and kill mob type enemies. In combination with the hp regen from myrtle often for the whole duration without needing a medic. saga probably can do so as well but siege doesn’t scream im my ear everytime she uses her skill. also siege has true aoe rather than max 6 enemies. Which is rather nice next cc if i‘m not mistaken.
thanks for this info.
This video is great!
Tomimi and flint are two of my favourite ops, and since I need them to do damage, pramanix is usually core when I bring them out. Do I believe that is the strongest build I can do? No, but I have an unbuilt bagpipe in my barracks. The beauty of Arknights to me is the fact that I can usually spend time clearing maps with my favourite ops, whether they're meta or not. Are all operators on the same level? No, but are they all viable? Yes, if you don't look at doberman and tsukinogi. What I'm trying to say is: build whatever you want and have fun with the game. I've been playing since cc0, and Amita remains my only single target mage, with carneleon, mint, beeswax, purgatory and dusk all being built. You can make do
I mean I build Amiya and tomimi, but it's not like tomimi is single target arts damage.
Siege was my first 6star when I started the game years ago, and the first one that I maxed out.
It's true that in many circumstances, I could use Bagpipe (if I built her) or Saga, or whatever.
But I have Siege, and I have her built, and she still works.
She does her job as a vanguard, generating enough DP for most any stage, and she does enough damage with her S2 to hold a lane for a long while.
I often drop Myrtle for primary DP generation, and Siege to hold a line early game and provide extra DP, build up the rest of the team, and if I *need* to, I often don't, I can replace her with a Defender, or whatever, later on.
She does the work, and I bring her to almost every map.
Dear Yii, can you make a video on Mostima pls? As a 5 months old player, I was originally made to think that Blemeshine is irrelevant because Saria exists but you opened my eyes. I also thought Siege was irrelevant because DP printers go brrrrr. Maybe even after your analysis, Mostima won't be relevant but I just want someone to talk more about her because she is my most favourite operator and I prioritized E2-ing her over beasts like Mudrock, Angelina and Saria in my squad :gladge:
Siege was my first 6* operator. She carried me through basically every stage until Chapter 4. I don't use her as much any more because Bagpipe takes care of most of my laneholding needs nowadays, but IMO she's still great in her niche, even if she's no longer top tier.
I still use Lappland till today regardless that I have Thorns, because she's just really a great Arts Ranged Guard (and Waifu material) and the Silence Debuff is pretty niche at later chapters, but quite broken in the Dossoless event atm (Silencing the Big guy that can stun your operator after few hits).
I normally use Texas as my only vanguard and a flag bearer when needed, but I always bring siege along when i need more early dps that can generate dp or when i need to hold 2 lanes in general (texas can do damage but not as fast as siege).
My operator collection is stacked, and I still use Lappland quite often. She's honestly still quite good. Thorns is better, of course, but Thorns is famously busted. Thorns is also slower, so in some daily maxrisk CC runs, I rather used lappy than him.
Id been waiting 6 months before I finally got Lappland from the cert shop. I love her E2 art and skin, so aesthetically shes top 5 for me. Her secord skill is oddly satisfying to look at and listen to. As a reward for all that waiting she was the first op i M3d, so no Im never dropping her xD Also she will eventually get a module that might make her viable if not broken like in the good ol days
1:18 what table site is this? Seems extremely useful when it comes to calculating DPS with a lot of factors (DEF, RES etc).
I get that the point of the video is that it doesn't matter how much points per second yi can do on volleyball since he doesn't have arms.
I've been playing AK since day 1. and Siege was my first 6*. since then to now. she has never left any of my teams. you're opinion on her I very much agree.
I find this video to be pretty good. Even though i never used my siege or lappland because i never found them to be very useful or because i don't like how they work, i do agree with the arguments given (especially the ones for siege). However i partially disagree with the part where you talk about using the DPS graphical tool. I find it pretty useful overall to get a general idea about how a unit can perform and think that the main problem (like always with statistics imo) is the lack of knowledge about how to exploit those datas. I'm going to use this video itself as an example (i don't have anything against it personnally but i think it's worth mentionning to prevent future mistakes like this) the reason why Meteor is doing more damage than Vermeil is not because of the def down part of her skills, the DPS calculator DOES NOT take that into account while calculating damage for a certain value of def since it wouldn't make any sense (why would you take the def down into account when you want to know how much damage you deal when hitting a 500 def ennemy for instance ?), but it's the fact that you left Meteor's talent unable (deals 150% damage against drones) that makes her hit harder. If you dissable it, you will see the average DPS of Meteor drop to a similar level of vermeil.
Man, I really always been told that meteor is a bad dps even though she has DEF down skill
I just shallowed the fact and using BP and once I got my hand on ash, I forgot her completely
I like siege
Although I'm quite curious what a module could do for pioneers. I kinda hope they might go full damage to get her S3 even higher instead of a DP regen just cause it would be mad funny. Also CC perma stage with slugs when?
I‘m so used to silence not working that i completely forgot about it with the exploding boats this event.
I loved the video but I do think you forgot about the existence of regular vanguards such as Texas that account for the niche situations such as when enemies rush down the map that disables the flagbearer comp in which I personally think that Texas outcompetes her as she is still able to fulfill the role of blocking two enemies while having to cost one less DP than Siege which is often irrelevant but matters most often in maps where enemies rush before units can be placed but also going further beyond by having a skill that has a further skill range (and arguably better DPS) while most importantly still able to generate DP with other units in front of her which is arguably Siege's greatest weakness. I would like to add however that I still relied on Siege through my early runs in the game since I did not have access or resources to E2 units such as Bagpipe yet and Texas was incredibly frail and could not live early game on maps where strong enemies rushed in the beginning (however most early users use Courier but I hadn't built him). She is still incredibly viable for early players who may not have access to certain meta units but I think that there's not really a place for her on endgame teams that focus on results in which specialists such as the flagbearers generate DP better or Mountain who blocks lanes better is most often preferred in addition to her generalist composition is overshadowed by Texas and obviously Saga. I definitely use her when I ignore efficiency and just want to use her for the hell of it but I would be lying if I said that she is easier to use than Saga since I don't really need to replace Saga if need be since her S2 has great range and can still greatly benefit units behind her with her trait and units in front of her with S2 spam while Siege needs to be replaced at some point with a defender or even a guard since her generalist archetype isn't strong enough for her to last to the end of most rounds. Once again, I want to reiterate that I loved the video and share the same frustrations as you in Siege's lack of use.
This hurts a bit because Lappland and Siege were like my 3rd and 5th high starred operators and I used them heavily in my early account...still use them today, just a bit less. Siege as a good line holder and Lappland for vanguard things when I need a 3rd one...
I feel the same with Siege too. I have Saga M6 but I still unironically use Siege over her. Siege is just amazing in her role and the fact that she has an auto skill. She is an integral part of all of my semi-AFK annihilation strategies.
Meanwhile
Lappland casually soloing left lane in DH S 3
They were my first 5 and 6 star ops and I don't regret building them when I started a few months ago
for me, the best metric is integrated strategies because that's where you'll know what your account is missing / which operator will push your account to the limits
lappland got massively nerfed with silence-proof enemies