Get Perfect Yaw Spins the EASY way!
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- If you value the work I do: patreon.com/chris_rosser
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:37 What's in the video?
1:07 Why must we coordinate turns?
2:07 Why coordinating turns is HARD...
2:44 How trigonometry can help
3:03 THE TRICK!
3:57 Try this for yourself
7:04 Outro - Наука та технологія
You can find your camera angle really easy in betaflight using the gyro by tilting your quad until the camera is horizontal then just check the pitch angle. Thanks for the trick Chris.
Smart thinking!
Nice tip, but the gyro only measures the rate of rotation. I think you meant the accelerometer, which needs to be enabled (freestylers sometimes disable it) and calibrated. 👍
@@kandredfpvits the other way round..😊.. accelerometer measures rate of change, gyro measures the angle where its at.when u in acro mode u mainly using the gyro,and that is how beta flight calculates the drones flips on full scale deflection,or any deflection.. accelerometer helps in angle and horizon..u dont ne3d to disable anything.the betaflight and fc combo is smart enough to know when to use what
@@captain-22 did you Google that before you posted it? Because it's wrong and misleading. 😊
@@kandredfpv i am pretty sure u use the gyro to calculate the camera angle trick, not the accelerometer..the accelerometer only measure linear acceleration..in fact accelerometer can not detect yaw..
i think its not a good idea to define your rates only by one move xD
It’s amazing how a simple geometric concept like this has never been discussed by anyone. I can’t even understand why I didn’t”t come up with this knowing geometry. Thanks, you are always keep us evolving
Hello Chris. Great video. I was using higher yaw rate earlier as I found easier to coordinate (but it was less than calculated rate with your formula) Now I know the exact value for unified stick movement !
Betaflight can implement this as I believe it has something with "Cam angle" in angle mode.
It can directly change yaw rate like "Cam angle dependent yaw rate" All we need is a developer with will to do it 😊
So… I set my camera to 45-degrees, and I change nothing. Got it. 😎
Thanks Chris. 3:10 is the answer. Use both sticks in unison.
I really like the new video transitions and animations. Looks even more professional than before!
I've outsourced my editing, makes a big difference!
Brilliant, Chris! Thanks a bunch for the tip! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thank you, Chris!
Thank you Chris!
WOW GREAT THIS ISAMAZING Thanks Chris I am going to try this ASAP!!!
Brilliant never thought about adjusting rates by camera angle!! Very cool
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Chris ! Good job as always but :
1) freestyle is way more than perfect inverted yaw spin. The transition beetwen moves is like link in music. More important than the note themselves.
2) rates are very personal and very complex to dial. Fix the ratio Y/R is just a limitation to expressivity.
3) find your "personal rate" is more difficult than PID because there is no goal (critically damp response) :)
Thank you for this!!!!
Nice approach. Maybe worth a try, but usually i keep using lower rates for yaw compared to pich/roll to make the throttle stick less sensitive to yaw.
With your approach I would counteract this strategy
Yaw’re awesome .. 😂 Thanks for another great video 🤘
Always knew 45 was the best uptilt
I’m worried my yaw will be too twitchy but I’ll give it a go
Same. My sensitivity goes up by a factor of 3 and max rate by 2.3. I have to see how things go. Currently they're 100 and 500 respectively and would go up to 310 & 1172.
I just tried this method, and it was deffinitly way too twitchy
@@starsstripesjacket Good to know. I was wondering if anyone had tried this and what the results were.
Jeeeebus whose running 40-60 degrees uptilt for freestyle I know maybe 2 people that are maniacs like that. But yeah that's wild! Y'all need Jesus! 😜
You look good with green hair 😂
Not sure why I'm just finding your channel 🔔🔨 666 like 😅 Just wanted to thank you for this simple fix for flat yaw spins! Works like a dream! Thank you Chris! 👊😎
Dan-O
Welcome! Glad you found the video useful.
I knew there's be a LUT. Satisfied :)
nice!! thanks!!
Thanks a lot!!!
You're welcome!
Your table at 4:33 starts at 30° and goes up to 60°. Really unrealistic. Who is flying 45+ in a typical freestyle quad? Most freestyle pilots are flying angles between 15 - 30°. The smooth way of flying. ;-)
sssssssssssssssbang!
Chris mentioned this doesn’t work well with angles
@@jiatan_fpv you mean in the osd?
still hard to hit perfectly but thats a good idea i might try that out :D
I run 45 on everything because I race as well
you would be very supprised how many ssssbangers are using below 25 degree angle :]
@@Maxhotgo
Everyone- move your sticks together
Chris, gets protractor and calculator 😂 ✊🤝
thats pretty cool
This is interesting because with my sensitivity of 100 & max rate of 500, my numbers would go up to 310 & 1172 for my 30-deg tilt. Which is weird because I've always heard yaw rates are much lower than pitch and roll because it's not used that much in a turn. This would get some getting used to because I might be too twitchy on yaw. I'll have to see how it goes.
Now i can do this spin, but can't fly !
Mostly flying 25/30 deg. Who flies60?.
isn't this what 'FPV angle mix' is doing? If so, that makes it even easier, only one stick needed for perfect turns.
if you have your accel calibrated, you can use the model on the Setup tab to find your camera uptilt. just rotate the model so that the lens is perpendicular to the bench and check the sensor reading
Maybe I missed the part when explained how to get the values showing in the table. Here is one example how you type it in on your calculator if the camera angle is 30°: tan(30 * (π/180))=0.58
thanks!
Also set the calculator to RAD instead of DEG.
@@gentlesfpv what no you want deg or are you messuring your camera angle in radiant?
Try calculating it in DEG you'll get sth like 0.009 instead of 0.58 for 30 degrees of camera angle. You would still put in 30degree camera angle.
@@gentlesfpv oh my bad
if you put the deg*(π/180) you convert to rad
you can leave the "*(π/180) and use deg instead
so it would be tan(30)=0.58
This is asumming you run the same rpy rates and rpy expo on all three channels, quite a few pilots do not, is this correct? I run 1950 on r/p, but only 1200 on yaw (to tame the yaw jumps), and different expo on r/p than yaw.
Just tried your method in liftoff, and it does not work at all. My normal rates (betaflight rates) of 1.64 super rate, 0.59 rate, and 0 expo at 30 degrees uptilt. I run the same rates for roll, pitch, and yaw. Using your method, my yaw should be 2.82, which is unflyable 😢
was going to try it out but my rates are equal and i use 45 deg haha
Why not just us the fpv cam angle setting in betaflight? Now that I think about it, can we just mount the FC at the same angle as the camera? Feels as someone who likes his yaw at half the rate of pitch and roll this feels weird having nearly 2x as sensitive.
The real problem is trying to fly a quad using a control scheme designed for a fixed wing aircraft.
Ideally yaw would be controlled by twisting the stick, like in hosas flying system.
If you don't know the camera angle you can measure it by drawing a right-angle triangle and you actually don't need to calculate the angle itself because you can measure tan() directly this way
Very cool solution. I like it!
Hi, thank you for the great videos about motors. Recently I want to build a long endurance quad but was struggling with motor efficiency. Could you please do a vedio about how to increase the power efficiency of the motor? For example, should I use low kv motor with low votage on a big prop? Thank you in advance.
I suppose it would work worse on really low uptilt is because you'd get a load of drift out of the turn?
Brilliant! i dont fly with a gopro. does this work for just using a dji 03 unit mounted?
Or use FPV Angle Mix mode if you don’t want to permanently jank your rates. Put it on a switch and invoke only when needed. Be sure to accurately specify camera angle in BF Config tab.
What would be the equation for a perfect Camera roll only during a forward flight ? Could you give any references for this kind of Maths ? Thank you, awesome video as always!
:) I feel it would be the opposite: Yaw = tan(d)* Roll ? :)
Yes you're right. 👍
So why is it so hard to do an inverted roll? Like when you do a normal roll but upsidedown lol. Is it cuz when I'm upsidedown and do a roll I'm not perfectly level?
Thanks Chris! If you're running expo with 'actual rates' would you match the expo (my guess) or similarly divide the roll expo by the tangent?
not sure if it works like that since the relationship isnt linear is it?
i cant wrap my head around it rn i guess i go test it later in sim
normally i fly with yaw rate lower than roll so this would be quite a change so more expo on yaw would be nice
I think you match the expo.
Man I was so excited for this, but after I saw the resulting rates, I had to smother the excitement. 1200 for Yaw rates? 120 for Center Sensitivity? I run the lowest possible center sensitivity with a max rate of 600, I would be literally incapable of flying normal with these rates...
hello chris, kindly settle a friendly debate we having on your chat,also not to misguide others ,,when you measure camera angle by using betaflight and tilting your drone in your hand,,is it the accelerometer or the gyro that gives you the tilt angle in that scenario.thanks.😊
Hi Chris. I have a problem with that calculations. I have a low cam angle of about 5 degrees. That means dividing by 0.09?! Yaw rate at 7k. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks for the great Video anyway!
Maybe... I would love to be able to consistently do flat spins either upright or inverted. Coordinated turns are not a problem though... just spins. I'll try it but my camera tilt is probably too low.
Nice trick but... is easiest inverted yaw spins more important than overall control ? I personally
advise to lower the yaw rate to gain more control in race and cruising.
How does this apply for mode 1?
oh by the way, i have 2x aos35 frames and i beat them to heck, i really with the arms kinda touched eachother under the bottom plate because i sheered a couple of the little m2 screw now from impacting the arm many times and its sheering at the interface of the arm and brace plate because when you bang the arm into something its not actually locked in in any way its kinda just samwedged between carbon and able to exert a lot of force onto the screws, the arms bend upwards and bends the screw where it comes from the bottom plate through to the arm, or it sheers the screw head off if you hit more square on. i know its more weight but i would prefer the option of maby a drop in shim that you can run or not run that will lock the arms together once the samwedge plate goes on
Thanks for the feedback! The right balance of weight is a key challenge I find so always good to hear what people think about the current solution 👍
@@ChrisRosser i love the frames by the way i have a v2 analog build thats at 248g with 850mah 4s and 1404 3800kv xing2 and its a really good quad, my v3 has the wasp link kit and 1408 motors otherwise same stack and battery its 60g heavier but the more power makes up for it, but it crashes harder so the durability increase is welcome, been flying the v2 for about 5 months atleast now i think, and the v3 for 1 month, and i managed to break 2 arms on the v2 so far in really decent crashes, after a ton of abuse, and i cracked a top plate because of the counter sunk screws and i cracked a rear and middle bottom plate things again because of the counter sunk screws. so the v3 i got from cnc drones without the counter sunk holes and it seems ALOT more durable, plus then its overall beefed up a bit, but now its heavy enough to sheer the m2, its a tough balance and we expect so much lol they blow my mind how you can beat them up and they just keep popping up and asking for more lol, i love my 2 little rippers! but ill avoid frames with counter sunk holes for the rest of time lol so iflight cuts of your frames will only be in a pinch cos cncdrones shipping to australia is a bit slow sometimes
What does the Camera angle field in betaflight configurator do? I thought it did something similar
Yes, that works in conjunction with the FPV Angle Mix mode, which as far as I know does exactly what he’s proposing here with the flick of a switch (so you don’t have to fly these goofy rates all the time).
if you're running 20 degrees? Will this work?
I like the approach but every pilot I've talked to or flown with is under 25 degrees of uptilt, Most flying in the 15-20 degree range. Regardless, good content!
This dude is a legend happy to see him doing more videos but please sur Rossler do a video cracking up so we know your not a robot
Hm. I fly 55-60 degree and yaw 150-200 with roll 500-1300 and no problems with yaw spin.
Inverted yaw is my greatest enemy! I just can't wrap my brain around it, lol, does this work for that or make it worse
Best place to learn, like any trick, is in the sim. If you do a full 360 or a 180, you don’t need to be perfectly level to make it look good either. Use the horizon or an object to try and find where your camera needs to be to stay level. Just takes practice.
All the best pilots manually coordinated inputs for about every trick. I’ve been using lower rates, and it’s taught me to coordinate even with simple rolls.
There’s no correct way in this hobby. So however you get the job done and you’re happy with how you video looks, go for it. Just my advice.
@@Greg__K if you lift off and dont change pitch just do a 180 roll and you get your horizon for a perfect inverted yaw
realistic way to do inverted yawspin is to flip upside down so the horizon is in the right place (your fpv camera is level)
that way you just need yaw input. it takes quite a bit of practice to get it down.
important thing is, that you give yourself enough up momentum, ideally you want enough momentum going up that once you are upside down your slowing down to make it look like your hanging, so the way and turn back right side up to catch yourself.
if you get it right it looks like you have huge hang time
This makes it easier to get a flat inverted yaw spin.
Any thoughts on a TPU motor mount for the AOS UL7?
Replacing the Carbon one? I don't know, seems like a challenge for vibration and resonance because it'll make the motor mount much less stiff.
Thanks was thinking of turning it into an Octocopter
What's the advantage of this than just setting "FPV Camera Angle" in Betaflight?
changing the camera angle in BF doesn't change any flight characteristics, i think its used for gyro data and some other stuff.
@@genericfpv Nah you are misinformed, it mixed in roll with yaw input so you can turn more easily
@@JustInTime0525 thank you. Quick google and changing angle doesn’t do anything but under modes enable mixer and yes it does, consider me educated! I did some tuning and the guy needed me to get angle right for black box tuning. So yeah you original question is interesting 🤔
How about INAV?
What if you fly kiss?
I cover how to set KISS rates near the end of the video (in Betaflight but the process is the same)
Nice! I guess i should have watched to the end. I hear Betaflight and my mind just wanders off lol! Thanks!@@ChrisRosser
are those rcinpower aos motors 👀
Good eyes. Yes, those are the AOS Supernova 2207s and I can't wait to tell you more in the next little while...
Uhh... at firtst glance, this looks like a stupid idea...
My roll max rate is 1053 deg/s and I'm running 25 camera uptilt. By these calculations I would end up with yaw max rate 1998.
I don't like that just by looking on that number :D
I know, you said that this works good for 30 to 60 camera uptilt, but 25 doesn't sound that far from the bottom edge :D
Should I try it on my quad? Hm, maybe I will, but I'm sceptical and worried :D
I expected another PR to betaflight 😅
Twitchy yaw on anything else. Will take more stick time to relearn all the other moves. A pass for me but very interesting knowledge 👍🏻
It depends a lot on your camera angle and rates, I think. I fly 30-35deg and 700deg/s on roll and pitch and I like it. If you're flying less than 30deg the yaw multiplier gets too high. Of course we could also reduce our roll rates rather than increasing Yaw.
@@ChrisRosser I use thumbs, so these higher yaw rates makes my obviously poor yaw technique very visible 🙈
Emuflight has done this for years. Used to be called witchcraft. Now they call it "roll with yaw"
Witchcraft is more for d-term smoothing
😂👍🤝
Nothing beats stick time. Go out there and burn lipos. Not even science can beat muscle memory.
My aos4 eats it up. Supurb engineering
Changing rates just to make 1 trick is not good I think
Just stick to your rates and practice
Stick time is more important
I don't understand the point of this video. 99% of the time, we aren't doing yaw spins, so adjusting our rates FOR yaw spins is ... worthless. Everything else we do requires much less yaw than roll. Not more.
This isn't going to yield good results. Want better yaw spins? Put in more stick time. Learn where your horizon is and the relationship between yaw and roll.
I don't know Rick but I think it's fake 🤣🤣🤣
It's SCIENCE MORTY!
Who gives a flying flip about yaw spins... Let's do something original