I love these deep dives into legions, I nearly went for traitor UMs rather than Sons of Horus. Telemechrus does have a few more things going for him than just Hatred BTW, he has +1WS, +1W, and +1 Attack.
I haven't taken him yet, but I want to try him out, I think he has the potential to be a great Elite/Dreadnought killer. I mean, making Leviathans and Contemptors only be able to hit him on 5+ is huge and the Hatred really helps make sure every attack counts in that first turn.
Glad your liking them mate! hmm better than I took him for but tbh id still prob go for the regular contemptor for the points difference, I mean hes gonna mook most things but i dont know how much more effectively than the difference to getting another contemptor
Great video. I ALWAYS use Logos Lectora. It's better than people think. You have to really think about the timing of each command. They also complement Guilliman's orders nicely.
I've been watching a lot of videos lately on the ancient celts and Rome, and I can't help wondering how effectively the Ultramarines run as a legion maniple would be. Tactical squads and inductii as hastati, tactical and heavy support squads with contemptors as principe, invictarus and Guilliman with command as triarii. What I really like and haven't seen too many people discussing in comments is Guilliman. +1 Ld and Stubborn from Preternatural Strategy, with Hold Fast from the Logos, and you have army wide Ld10 with Stubborn. Retribution Strike from Logos with Furious Charge from Guilliman and Invictarus are swinging WS6 S5 AP2 weapons - not Unwieldy. Retribution Strike with Fleet (2) and your combat units are getting +3" to their charge rolls. Retribution Strike and Counter-Attack means I dare you to charge me - army wide! Even Guilliman and Stubborn alone is army wide Ld9 with Stubborn. Need to rally? How's Ld9 with rerolls? Not having the money for Forge World and owning 40k Guilliman, I'll probably just magnetize the sword and put something else in his hand. Grey Knight terminator sword maybe? I love how Guilliman does in game what the lore suggests he does - buffs the army hard.
Would be really interesting to see: even could be breachers then praetorians then suzies, with rapiers as the Scorpii (and scorpii as scorpii I suppose haha)
Any chance of adding the nemesis destroyer unit to a new version? You missed the benefits of telemechrus though, he gets an additional WS, A and I think one other stat is at plus one. For 50 points its not a cheap "upgrade" but it is quite effective.
I agree: missing those stats slightly revises my opinion on telemechrus, but prob still not “technically” worth it in hard waac but not shooting yourself in the foot for fluff games then! I may do an exemplar units guide actually and, got the problem atm of it taking my computer 12 hours to render a vid after editing sadly so i have to drive onwards without revisiting currently (sadly) As a unit I like the nemesis destroyers: I just think they fall down a bit with lack of power weapons sadly, the morale test off one wound and it being 18” assault 2 is nice but the elite slot is competitive man
I have two ultramarine players in my league I have to play against, so thankful for the rundown. Looking forward to the eventual word bearer one. Curious to hear your thoughts on the part of the legion I like/dislike. Hopefully the daemon pdf comes out soon!
I’m possible going to get it done soon since you’ve requested it: I’ll have to see on what I can fit in with the new book coming out though cos I’ll be covering solar definitely
Pretorian breachers were useless last edition and again they brought them in. You are the first that cared to spend a couple words on this pointless squad.
I honestly (kinda, with extra points) like them! One of the lads round here is having massive success (both casual /tournament (boooo tournament)) with ferrus in a massive breather blob, I imagine hed be over the moon with power swords and two wounds on that unit! -I think they’re 100% overpriced - they’re competing with Suzies which are so underpriced and overspecced it’s untrue - and I think all legions should have vet and support squad breathers so that would remove them as a special unit
@@BearfootMiniatures sadly there's plenty of bad unit/character writing on this edition. I was just reading about DG poisoners, and they have the same problem.
@@caprera you know I’d love to be able to be a super fan of gw (I imagine I’d have an easier time getting the books to review on release rather than a rush in the first few hours of each release day) but I find it hard to disagree with you, the units are all over the place
hav u don a video on difernt tips of Consul and wich are wirth taking in ech legon as i am quit new two hh 30k it wood be help full two know wut they all do & there names
Hey mate sorry for the late reply, been slammed atm with work will definately get one in the works along with other generic units (though consuls seem a place to start as you suggest) now the legion specifics are “done”
hard question to answer: but potentially 50-75pts more for the base squad and an extra 10-15 per dude (potentially even more! per model a terminator squad is also 30pts, which suzerain gain character, ap2 at initiative, 4++ in combat (the benefit of cataphractii) but retain the ability to sweep, an extra attack, LD buffs to others in the army
From what I have seen, the HH community is more concerned with making practical, lore accurate, armies rather than power gaming and fielding only the best units available. It’ll be a disappointing day when power creep ruins this game and everything runs off cheese.
UM insanely overpowered. A local guy runs 10 Suzerain, 10 fulemetartus and multiple contempters and there is literally nothing i can do as a EC player to even have a chance. I basically just refuse to play against him at this stage...
The Fulmentarus get so much hate in my area, I've never tried them, but the Alpha Legion players do, and other legions use them as allies! LOL I'm considering taking them to the next tournament because I'm not seeing why I should keep handicapping myself. Not many other players are showing any restraint. Most bring Primarchs, I usually don't, but that's changing too. I faced a Death guard player with Mortarion, three 10 man Lascannon Squads, two 10 man Multi-melta Squads and the heavy weapons shoot on the move at full BS. He was blowing up my Landraiders all willy nilly while his two dual fist Contemptors shattered my Squads. It was a fun game, and it was close, but why am I handicapping my list when others don't seem to...
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I love these deep dives into legions, I nearly went for traitor UMs rather than Sons of Horus.
Telemechrus does have a few more things going for him than just Hatred BTW, he has +1WS, +1W, and +1 Attack.
I haven't taken him yet, but I want to try him out, I think he has the potential to be a great Elite/Dreadnought killer. I mean, making Leviathans and Contemptors only be able to hit him on 5+ is huge and the Hatred really helps make sure every attack counts in that first turn.
Glad your liking them mate!
hmm better than I took him for but tbh id still prob go for the regular contemptor for the points difference, I mean hes gonna mook most things but i dont know how much more effectively than the difference to getting another contemptor
I’m going to use this in my theoreticals for my Ultramarines army lists
Awesome mate glad it could be helpful!
Great video. I ALWAYS use Logos Lectora. It's better than people think. You have to really think about the timing of each command. They also complement Guilliman's orders nicely.
GReat video my man, this was really helpful!
I've been watching a lot of videos lately on the ancient celts and Rome, and I can't help wondering how effectively the Ultramarines run as a legion maniple would be. Tactical squads and inductii as hastati, tactical and heavy support squads with contemptors as principe, invictarus and Guilliman with command as triarii.
What I really like and haven't seen too many people discussing in comments is Guilliman. +1 Ld and Stubborn from Preternatural Strategy, with Hold Fast from the Logos, and you have army wide Ld10 with Stubborn. Retribution Strike from Logos with Furious Charge from Guilliman and Invictarus are swinging WS6 S5 AP2 weapons - not Unwieldy. Retribution Strike with Fleet (2) and your combat units are getting +3" to their charge rolls. Retribution Strike and Counter-Attack means I dare you to charge me - army wide!
Even Guilliman and Stubborn alone is army wide Ld9 with Stubborn. Need to rally? How's Ld9 with rerolls?
Not having the money for Forge World and owning 40k Guilliman, I'll probably just magnetize the sword and put something else in his hand. Grey Knight terminator sword maybe? I love how Guilliman does in game what the lore suggests he does - buffs the army hard.
Would be really interesting to see: even could be breachers then praetorians then suzies, with rapiers as the Scorpii (and scorpii as scorpii I suppose haha)
@@BearfootMiniatures there you go, encouraging and inspiring me and making my wallet cry out in fear
Great rundown :)
Thanks mate glad you enjoyed it! love the legion tbh, though i hate to admit it with my mono-legion tendencies!
Rule of cool has me running the praetorians.
props mate, theyre such fitting unit for the ultras, suzies I get the axes (like kinda varangian guard) but praetorians scream of the Eternal City
i actually play both irons and ultras best legions in the game.
I’m currently eyeing up ultras to have as a second legion on the channel so may be seeing some more of them
Bearfoot... have you started Ultramarines yet??
Any chance of adding the nemesis destroyer unit to a new version? You missed the benefits of telemechrus though, he gets an additional WS, A and I think one other stat is at plus one. For 50 points its not a cheap "upgrade" but it is quite effective.
I agree: missing those stats slightly revises my opinion on telemechrus, but prob still not “technically” worth it in hard waac but not shooting yourself in the foot for fluff games then!
I may do an exemplar units guide actually and, got the problem atm of it taking my computer 12 hours to render a vid after editing sadly so i have to drive onwards without revisiting currently (sadly)
As a unit I like the nemesis destroyers: I just think they fall down a bit with lack of power weapons sadly, the morale test off one wound and it being 18” assault 2 is nice but the elite slot is competitive man
I have two ultramarine players in my league I have to play against, so thankful for the rundown. Looking forward to the eventual word bearer one. Curious to hear your thoughts on the part of the legion I like/dislike. Hopefully the daemon pdf comes out soon!
I’m possible going to get it done soon since you’ve requested it: I’ll have to see on what I can fit in with the new book coming out though cos I’ll be covering solar definitely
Pretorian breachers were useless last edition and again they brought them in. You are the first that cared to spend a couple words on this pointless squad.
I honestly (kinda, with extra points) like them! One of the lads round here is having massive success (both casual /tournament (boooo tournament)) with ferrus in a massive breather blob, I imagine hed be over the moon with power swords and two wounds on that unit!
-I think they’re 100% overpriced
- they’re competing with Suzies which are so underpriced and overspecced it’s untrue
- and I think all legions should have vet and support squad breathers so that would remove them as a special unit
I will say aswell: they don’t work as they are in an ultras list I do agree on that 100%
@@BearfootMiniatures true, the price is my main concern, but also need to be 10 bodies. Like you say more veteran unit less special.
@@BearfootMiniatures sadly there's plenty of bad unit/character writing on this edition. I was just reading about DG poisoners, and they have the same problem.
@@caprera you know I’d love to be able to be a super fan of gw (I imagine I’d have an easier time getting the books to review on release rather than a rush in the first few hours of each release day) but I find it hard to disagree with you, the units are all over the place
hav u don a video on difernt tips of Consul and wich are wirth taking in ech legon as i am quit new two hh 30k it wood be help full two know wut they all do & there names
Hey mate sorry for the late reply, been slammed atm with work will definately get one in the works along with other generic units (though consuls seem a place to start as you suggest) now the legion specifics are “done”
@@BearfootMiniatures ty so much don't worry I understand hop work is going well
So... how many points do you think suzerain should really be? (Really solid legion but it's their special units that make them so good)
hard question to answer: but potentially 50-75pts more for the base squad and an extra 10-15 per dude (potentially even more! per model a terminator squad is also 30pts, which suzerain gain character, ap2 at initiative, 4++ in combat (the benefit of cataphractii) but retain the ability to sweep, an extra attack, LD buffs to others in the army
From what I have seen, the HH community is more concerned with making practical, lore accurate, armies rather than power gaming and fielding only the best units available.
It’ll be a disappointing day when power creep ruins this game and everything runs off cheese.
Yea Sorry, Fulmentaris are just too damn powerful for 290 points...
ye.... I agree 100% with this comment!
UM insanely overpowered. A local guy runs 10 Suzerain, 10 fulemetartus and multiple contempters and there is literally nothing i can do as a EC player to even have a chance. I basically just refuse to play against him at this stage...
Sounds a super balanced and considered list…. Just like a table flip is a controlled and precise manouvre!
The Fulmentarus get so much hate in my area, I've never tried them, but the Alpha Legion players do, and other legions use them as allies! LOL I'm considering taking them to the next tournament because I'm not seeing why I should keep handicapping myself. Not many other players are showing any restraint. Most bring Primarchs, I usually don't, but that's changing too. I faced a Death guard player with Mortarion, three 10 man Lascannon Squads, two 10 man Multi-melta Squads and the heavy weapons shoot on the move at full BS. He was blowing up my Landraiders all willy nilly while his two dual fist Contemptors shattered my Squads. It was a fun game, and it was close, but why am I handicapping my list when others don't seem to...