👇 Join the conversation below! What are your thoughts on the debate between gender identity and biological sex? To watch the full talk don't forget to visit IAI TV: iai.tv/video/material-girls-kathleen-stock?UA-cam&+comment&
Academia needs to fundementally change. This idea of campus, student union and collective experience is no longer viable just like this nostalgic idea about cinema. The conservative attitude of the establishment of holding on to insitutions alresdy hallowed out and redundant is the problem. After the sexual scandles that are no "taboo", the trust in academic papers has been increasingly diminishing. University in the format of the 60s is rotten to the core and no longer serves a purpose. Academic side of university was always about providing oppotunities for research and learning through student's initiative in opposition to teaching students in school. With the advent of the internet the academic side is redundant. It is interesting to note that most successful individuals who have gone on to achieve progress are those who either never attended university or those who left soon after starting university. The social aspect of university is not too much at odds with ordinary life. It is now too traumatic of an experience for young people leaving their own environment and suddenly finding themselves living on campus. This might have been beneficial in the past but we now must admit that childhood development is very different to how it used to be in the 20th century. University like any organisation is based on being run the staff. Now they are like asylems being run by patients. Students find it difficult to find their place in community and therefore are becoming collectively defensive, hence this stance about identity that seems totally ireconsilable to us. Let's not forget that we are talking about still very young people with a lot less social experience that previous generation. So, I disagree, it is a generational problem, one that specially academics are too close to it to recognise it. Maybe the current format but is further downsized is more suitable for older individuals wishing to have an arena for social interaction involving their interest that is much smaller and less all encompassing.
It's amazing that such narcissism and fragility is being encouraged. What will become of a generation that thinks every ego is a precious little snowflake. Shh! No one speak. You might "trigger" someone!
Nope. I won't register on your website to watch the whole conversation. I hate being tricked into watching and then being cut off! No clicks from me anymore.
I suggested to a trans work colleague that complaining loudly, repetitively and insistently about being 'dead named' (ie, people using the birth name rather than the trans name) could perhaps be offensive to another colleague who had been recently bereaved. Apparently public displays of distress at being 'dead named' were of far more psychological importance to my trans colleague than was any consideration of another colleague who had lost her husband and was left with 2 young children to raise. For the insensitivity of my comment, I was publicly berated as transphobic and a formal complaint made against me. I have no regrets. Thank you Kathleen Stock, for your courage in the face of some deeply disturbed activists.
These people are narcissists. They only care about themselves, they would have no understanding or compassion for someone outside of their 'affirming' echo chamber.
@@3brenm It's not odd at all when seen in terms of religion or cult. It's exactly in keeping with that playbook. I'd highly recommend Andrew Doyle's book, 'The New Puritans'. He writes brilliantly and wears his considerable learning lightly.
@@lewreed1871 yer i suppose I've never seen it playing out in front of my eyes before though, so it's a little shocking. Especially when it's so unrelated to general political concerns. I remember seeing the "trans women are women" signs etc and wondering how people could just accept that without a second thought. My ex literally said "you either believe trans women are women or you don't, it's that simple." i was like "that is a drastic simplification of this issue". It's because this philosophical debate is being portrayed as a persecuted minority issue. But there is more than one thing going on here.
Another excellent speech from Kathleen Stock. She is truly courageous Also a massive thanks to the sound engineer who managed to cancel out most of the aggressive row from the activists outside
If your deeply felt inner identity requires other (including strangers who don't care about you personally) affirm to feel validated, then it is not deeply felt, but deeply insecure.
But it does require just that. Being T requires that all of society 'buy in' to it and participate in it. Being LGB requires none of that. LGB requires no fake names, fraudulent pronouns, or medicalization. Nor does it require bastardizing the language and compelled speech in order for LGBs to be their authentic selves. LGBs rights and women's rights are based on the material reality of sex. T is based on an erotic fantasy in heterosexual, male, sexual fetishists' heads and these men are the main drivers of this movement. It is misogynist and homophobic to its core.
Imagine you're a biological woman and you also identify as such but other people treat you as a man. What would you do? Would you be okay w it because you know deep down you're a woman? Most people would in fact argue and want to defend their identity as a woman. That's why trans people defend theirs. They don't like being called something they're not constantly
@@paintbox3011 they're never called something they're not. they choose to redefine the thing they're being called. that's not functional or tolerable behaviour, but extremely and deliberately anti-social. colloquially, "man" is meant to refer plainly to an adult male. when it is used literally, we mean nothing but this plain fact, an adult male. personality is not included, contrary sex characteristics he displays are not included, what he looks like, how he speaks, how he dresses, who he is attracted to--none of it, with the literal definition you know most people in this society use, and as our dictionaries confirm, is relevant to him just being a "man". while we may speak of "manly" things, and, in figurative sense, call someone "a real man" or "not a real man", when describing their character, no one actually believes that the adult male in question is not literally a man. when an adult male feels affinity with femininity, and expresses it, and desires to be what he imagines is a woman, even feminists who will respect it to (to the point of him saying he has a right in their private areas) acknowledge that he is still a man. there is no value-judgment attached to the literal definition of man. an adult human male is a man. he can look like anything, act like anything, feel anything, and many people will, out of sympathy for him, call him a woman as a social nicety, but he is a man and acknowledging that plain fact does not actually have anything to do with whether or not you respect his personal expression. his manhood is a plain, neutral fact, no different to him having legs. if he has two legs, he is bipedal. if he is of the sex which is biologically inclined to produce male gametes, then, even if abnormality gives him secondary sex characteristics of a female, once he is matured, he is a "man". the literal colloquial definition of "man" is adult male, and that is how most people use it--in fact, most trans-allies use it in this sense most of the time, but moderate their language when talking about trans people (doublethink) so, when an adult male says he knows deep down that he is not an adult male, this is not comparable to an adult female who says she knows that she is not an adult male. your attempt to draw false equivalence between those things is an exercise in gaslighting. it does not even matter that transgender ideologues choose to redefine established terms. they know that they are speaking to people who do not use or understand or agree with their terminology, so even if a transgender redefines "woman" to include heterosexual males with beards, they KNOW that when someone else uses that term, they are not including such people. they also KNOW that "women's bathrooms" has never referred to personal identity, but are literally purposed for plain females. they are structurally designed for the typical female body, they have never meant "somewhere where people who feel an affinity with femininity go". when they say "women's bathroom" includes males, they are deliberately, consciously, insolently, pretending that their personal redefinition of an established term is the only true one. it is literally as if i were to redefine red as blue and call you wrong when you call blue things blue. this is why people describe the ideology as insane. it is deliberately antagonistic to the most fundamental social norms and language and common logic.
@@paintbox3011 imagine people forcing people to subscribe to an alternate reality such as calling a cat a dog and expecting people to believe in it ? Does that make sense to you ? If so then there is no need to talk any further.
People should not be afraid to speak up about this! Debate is not hate. Conversation and rationale are not evil. People are afraid of losing their jobs or livelyhood if they speak their mind, but someone has to do it. This woman needs support.
Gender is neither useless nor destructive when used appropriately. Sexual dimorphism generates certain behavior trends, which in turn drive cultural norms. The concept of gender is built upon these foundations - there is nothing inherently wrong with telling a weak, cowardly, unproductive male that he is not "being a man" - it's true that he is not living up to the standards and expectations for males that the "man" concept encapsulates! The problem is when we pretend that gender is not built on a foundation of biology and/or that it can be entirely socially determined. Trying to erase biology and usher in posthumanism is the destructive part.
@@mylesleggette7520 Yes, gender is a useless and destructive concept. And no, it is not OK to tell an unproductive male that he is not "being a man." We can agree to disagree, mate.
@@mylesleggette7520 What you call "the 'man' concept" IS gender. That is EXACTLY the problem with gender. You're proving the point. Toxic masculinity gender ideology like yours is right next door to transgender ideology. Incels are one tiny step removed from becoming "transgender" themselves. You're a transwoman at heart, boy.
I think it's a relatively recent phenomenon that adults no longer label absurd, childish demands from young people as such. Rather, it seems as if those responsible (teachers, parents, universities) have completely forgotten what their task is: to act with self-confidence and adulthood and not to shy away from long-overdue discussions. Luckily there are people like Kathleen Stock who, despite ridiculous accusations and blatant bullying, stand up to their senses.
The reason we're seeing this now is because the first generation to be raised in such high levels of safety, stability, material abundance, and prosperity that they could cultivate a "feelings first" mentality are now adults taking position of power in society. This will continue to accelerate for the foreseeable future, because even those who push back against the outcomes of this mentality (like the so-called 'trans-rights' and other posthuman nonsense) do not fundamentally disagree with the foundational premises of the ideology. They still, at heart, believe it's not right that every tree in the forest does not get the same amount of light.
I started listening to this, and thought, "don't be so apologetic", but I listened on, and I know you’re a sensitive soul, from your mannerisms, but you've actually constructed this so well. You've driven home the point so far that they'll have to send the fire engine to a place that has already being fully distinguished.
Really, there are male rapist (trans of some kind I’m sure..) violent transgender woman bunking and living with females in a women’s prison..?name the incarcerated. As a matter of peace and safety of their charges, prison administrators have a lot of Lee way in ensuring the safety of the prisoner in their care. The numbers are important here.The trans population is about one percent. Statically, a female is more likely to be killed by a Cis white male than a trans woman, 10 to one. Are you afraid of naming the prisoner out of fear of making kids trans? By you taking the dehumanizing opinion of gender non conforming,you are doing harm to our society. We are human, entitled to the dignity of living as we please. No one is hurting you,especially trans, despite,at times living desperate lives of just surviving.If they were bad actors your agenda would be screaming this out loud. Shame on you and your ilk.
Magdalen Burns was talking about this 8 years ago. Sadly, I think it's not until people are affected by something themselves that they take notice. Lesbians were the first casualties, then women in general. I think men think that they're largely not affected and that it's going to stay that way. They have a shock coming.
"Material Girls" is an excellent book. A recommended read for anyone interested in how a Gay Rights movement became a machine of scientific sexism that edits children to match gender roles, spitting in the face of the former feminist and gay rights movements.
@@sandorx4 Who is right about what exactly? Are you saying that the hateful bigot is right about things that medical science and living people see completely differently? Based on what?
Have you ever heard of Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance? Basically, our society has become too tolerant of the intolerance of the gender movement to any idea which doesn't conform to theirs. Popper said the paradox is we have to be intolerant to intolerant, ie no longer tolerate farfetched ideas and the bullying of the gender mob.
We all make projections onto others unconsciously and it is honest, trustworthy social discourse that helps us to reframe and own those projections; To help us (sometimes painfully) expose and experience our authentic selves. This requires commitment and courage. But - "If you challenge my projections then you are a hater and will be dismissed or even punished" is a very dangerous path for individuals and reinforces the current growth of mass neurosis.
@@thenorthernspinozist397 Ah I see. So to successfully exclude trans women from women's only spaces we just have to see if they fit the "caricature test". Fortunately there are no caricature tests for being a decent human being else you wouldn't pass.
@@TheTrenchesYT Since I claimed no identity at all, your stupid, inane, pointless shrieking holds only stupidity, inanity, and pointlessness. Go get your diaper changed if holding water is such a pressing concern.
@@highroller-jq3ix actually it cost her, her job. You know, because "progressives" are so tolerant and open minded. In this day of age, it is courageous for many people to oppose gender theory because of people like you. You can't rationalize, you can't comprehend a different opinion and, you can't tolerate so, you label things you don't like "hateful", "phobic", "dangerous" and, try to ruin the lives of those expressing these views.
@@habibie I thought you guys hated circular definitions? The question remains whether cis women that look like dudes pass your test or not. Also, guarantee you that there are many women that have transitioned that you cannot tell are trans on sight alone.
This is why existence of transgender people is bringing reason to an otherwise cultish belief system that man or woman is this or that, which were rooted in a belief, and not science. gender bianry itself was brought in from colonists, in ancient societies there were mutiple genders , the original Jewish Torah itself had 6 genders.
Thank you so much much Kathleen Stock for speaking up even with so much backlash. I just can’t imaging bringing my thoughts together with an outraging mob that is not capable of or willing to have a rational debate, and trying to intimidate. The first sign that people probably fighting for the wrong thing is when they use pressure, intimidation and the victim role instead of a civilised discussion. Such an intelligent, rational and well spoken woman. I’m shocked who agreed on letting men into woman cells or changing rooms. With all will to respect minority groups, that’s insane!
As someone who spent the first 23 years of my life in a cult, one of the first things I noticed (around 10 years ago) about the transgender movement was the similarities to a cult. Please reference Steven Hassan’s work on High Control Groups.
Love bombing, rote repetition (Trans women are women), intolerance of any swaying from group thought, shunning of members who leave. Absolutely cult behaviors
Transgender is not a cult because it is not rooted in a belief but purely in a biology and self determination to embody our spirit. hat is a cult is a belief that woman is someone who has a vagina, because it s rooted in a belief. What we are witnessing here is a self projection, transgender peopel are the voice of mother nature rebelling against this oppressive colonial sexist system.
Kathleen, at this point, I find it physically painful listening to you or Helen Joyce going back to this level of dissecting of science and common sense in an attempt to explain these fundamentals of human biology. I truly admire you for still being bothered to do so. As a philosopher, it must feel painfully regressive. Thank you.
This weirdness is now worldwide. The council in Christchurch, New Zealand, advertises "Women's Wednesdays" at its Linwood swimming pool, where women can feel safe with all-female staff and blinds over the windows to avoid peeping toms. BUT the advertising for it says that "All women are welcome, including trans women and people who identify as a woman" - so clearly including men! How is that supposed to be safe for women? In NZ, the law was changed in June to allow anyone to legally change their sex on their birth records, passport, etc., just by filling in a form, with no medical evidence of any kind required, so a man can "prove" that he's legally a woman simply by going through this simple process, with no medical intervention or even psychological back-up. Parents now have the right to register a child as whichever sex they prefer, and the parents can choose to be registered on the birth certificate as whichever parent (father, mother, or just parent) that they prefer. Madness!
And it was slipped in so quietly. The only reason I found out (two days after it happened!) was because the way we treated KJ Keane shocked me so much so I looked her up, and listening to both sudes it was obvious who was sane and correct and who was behaving like an outraged religious cult. So I then looked up a women’s rights activist in nz to support and they told me!
Much Gratitude for standing up against the totalitarians, and for keeping your sense of humour in the face of this encroaching darkness. And thank you so much for pointing out the ridiculous attempts by the child sterilization acolytes to force even " undefined " people under their malevolent umbrella.
Glad you like debate i summit the following statement: There are male rapist (trans of some kind I’m sure..) really? violent transgender woman bunking and living with females in a women’s prison..?name the incarcerated. As a matter of peace and safety of their charges, prison administrators have a lot of Lee way in ensuring the safety of the prisoner in their care. The numbers are important here.The trans population is about one percent. Statically, a female is more likely to be killed by a Cis white male than a trans woman, 10 to one. Are you afraid of naming the prisoner out of fear of making kids trans? By you taking the dehumanizing opinion that gender non conforming, are dangers or just interlopers,you are doing harm to our society. We are human, entitled to the dignity of living as we please. No one is hurting you,especially the peaceful trans, despite,at times living desperate lives of just surviving.If they were bad actors your agenda would be screaming this out loud. Shame on you and your ilk.
@@Preciouspink do you even listen to people like Stock? They are not against trans people but against an aggressive ideology that denies scientific facts. Denying scientific facts hurts everyone, trans people included. Listen to Stock before speaking against her.
@@PreciouspinkBarbie kardeshian, Karen white, Katie Dolatowski, Dana Rivers and the list goes on and on and on. And on. But seriously only one would be one to many. Women in prisons matter. They safety, their well being matter. Women in prisons matter.
@@Preciouspinkoh and another fun fact; Finland has only one serial killer that meets the official FBI criteria. Only one. He identifies as woman. He’s trans.
The channel pinned a link at the top of the comments that will take you to their website, where they have the entire talk (which I have not gone to, myself, because I’m still watching this video).
She is amazing. The formal analysis of the document is brilliant: in the language of trans-activism, there is no room for nuance or concession. It is indeed totalizing.
The idea of identity being pulled, wholly, from the individual (inside) is pervasive across the board. It's not only with sexual identity. It's with everyone.
That's not true. "Gender" is UNIQUE, in being 100% evidence-free, subjective and unfalsifiable, yet being treated like some innate, externally-verifiable trait, like race or sex (well, evidence-free """gender""" self-ID is being claimed to REPLACE evidence-based sex). But MOST of the labels we've given the MOST credence and protection to til now, are real, externally verifiable, evidence-based traits; I'm black. Stock is white. NEITHER is some "internal", subjective, evidence-free, opt-in label like """gender""", where ANYONE can claim ANY label, because it's 100% internal; Not even the most radical lefty would buy it if Stock "identified as black"... But they WOULD buy it, if she "identified as a man"... And the label of sex ISN'T "internal" like "gender"- You can claim ANY self-ID'd "gender" you can think of, all with EQUAL validity, because it IS purely "internal", and 100% removed from real-world EVIDENCE... But you CAN'T do that with sex... Because sex ISN'T internal and evidence-free; Sex is EXTERNALLY-verifiable, evidence-based, biologcal reality. Same with almost ALL labels that are granted protection by anti-discrimination laws- Sex, race, disability. Even "gay" and "lesbian" ARE externally disprovable (or they USED to be, til the left re-wrote reality...)- If I claim to be gay, (UNLIKE any "gender" label I choose) that is disproved, if you discover that I've shared a bed with my wife, for almost a decade... And if I claim to be "lesbian" (to a sane person) that's immediately externally disproved, by me being a man... The ONLY labels protected by anti-discrimination laws, that come close to the "internal", unfalsifiable nature of "gender", is ideological labels, like political alignment, or religious belief... But we all ACKNOWLEDGE that nobody is born with political or religious beliefs- That these beliefs are A CHOICE we each make- We treat those traits different to FIXED traits like race and sex, that we DON'T choose. But believers in gender, expect is to treat it like a fixed, evidence-based, externally-verifiable trait like sex or race or disability... even though ALL EVIDENCE says its a belief you choose, like a political or religious label. Expecting the world to PRETEND to believe that a biologcal man is somehow "REALLY a woman", and wanting us all to use "she/her" pronouns for a man, is the same as a religious believer, expecting non-belivers to PRETEND to believe he's "saved", or "god's chosen one", or something. "Gender" is the ONLY kind of internal, unverifiable, label, where the whole world is expected to pretend it's EXTERNAL, and real... (If "gender" played by the rules that every OTHER religion adhered to, I'd have no issue with it... But we're all expected to pretend that "non-binary" and "male women" AREN'T just religious beliefs,; We're supposed to pretend that this ONE religion's evidence-free fantasys are "the REAL Truth...")
We used to use our clothes, hair or jewelry to demand a certain response from people. Thank goodness my uniform as a teen was so easy to discard. We age and move on, adopting a gender can also be discarded but surgery takes it to a level where permanence becomes dangerous. Shedding our clothes or uniform is important as we grow as people.
She's been so bravely fighting for critical thinking, and the thought police so fiercely focused on cancelling her, I'm afraid we're lost for at least a century of enlightment on such complex issues. Respect, Dr Stock; shame on you, the so-called "academia".
It's a difficult issue, and it's hard to bring any kind of nuance into it without angering both sides of the discussion. We shouldn't be so focussed on labels, and recognize each other as unique human beings, who are worthy of love and understanding. But also within reason.
I think it is absolutely imperative that teachers talk to parents. It’s not like they are not going to find out their kid is trans sooner or later. Seems the activists just don’t want parents in the picture so they can totally indoctrinate kids without opposition.
The activists can bog off. No way is a jumped up bully telling me I can't be involved with my kids education and welfare. Thank god my children are safe from the mainstream education. Uni is an absolute NO.
@@Shalanaya Wow. You're far gone. How is aknowledging a material fact child abuse? Is it the BUTBUTBUT ma iDenTitY?! Pretty brainwashed and narcissistic. But, you do you.
@@Shalanayait’s child abuse to make kids believe they can be something when they can’t no matter how many hormones they take and how much surgery they get.
Kathleen Stock has great ability to analyse fairly the arguments of trans activists. She points to the overuse of the word “dog whistle” and maps out the total lack of nuance and refusal to negotiate or debate. She does right in focussing on the institutions complicity and promotion of this philosophy. It amounts to a totally inward looking attitude where inner feelings swamp everything else.
Let that sink in: is there ANY area of human existence where the very act of negotiation is an unalloyed harm? We exist 24/7 in negotiation with ourselves and our societies.
I sometimes wonder if the real reason why young people are so loud and uncompromising on these issues as opposed to other, one would think, more important aspects of life (i.e., political protests) is because this may be the only ground their demands make waves. They are listened to. In other traditional areas they feel, and rightly so, completely excluded from any kind of serious debates (eg. student loans, cost of living, inflation, climate change ....). I am not sure if self-identity is a real problem here????
A friend told me that I had male privilege. When asked to expand on that, she said that as a man, I would never know or understand what is was like to walk on a trail or in a parking lot and be afraid of someone attacking me to sexually assault or kidnap me. She acknowledged that as a man i could still be robbed, or murdered, but women also have those concerns. That is why she explained why safe places are so so so important for women, and to be in a place like a bathroom or a locker room where they can also just worry about being robbed or murdered and not have to worry that some man who claims to identify as a women is a predictor looking for their next victim when they are at their most vulnerable.
Your friend's telepathic and precognitive powers are quite impressive! While she is busy patronizingly explaining to you what experiences you will never have you should ask her what the winning lotto numbers will be! Meanwhile in the real world, men get sexually assaulted and kidnapped every day, and have to live with the fear of that for the rest of their lives. The concerns she tried to explain to you are very real, but I have grown tired of people trying to explain the world through a "you could never understand what it's like for us" lens. It's not just that it's condescending and annoying, it's that it's just so *unnecessary*. People can make their points just fine without pretending their experiences are unique to their group.
There is some truth to what your friend says. However this is a game which can be played endlessly, dividing people into arbitrary groups and claiming one has privilege over another. So one can make a case for male privilege, female privilege, white privilege, tall privilege, wealthy privilege, attractiveness privilege, young privilege, etc. It isn't helpful or productive. We all face different challenges in life, how is whining that someone else has it easier going to help?
When someone demands something of the other it is almost a given that there will be a lack of acceptance. No one wants to be forced to do anything. I support the LGBTQ community but there are limits to all of our experiences, no matter who we are or how we identify. Trans women need stay out of women’s sports. Trans men should not be forced into men’s prison. This woman is hitting it right out of the ballpark!
My sister suffered with anorexia when she was younger. Imagine where we'd be if we had affirmed her 'mistaken' belief that she was fat? Being a man and thinking you are a woman does not make it so.....
The whole *point* of trans rights is that they cannot be clearly defined or agreed upon, because they are, by definition, transgressive. Their very essence is to cross boundaries, which makes any agreement fundamentally unstable and short-lived.
We now have a kind of gender essentialism replacing sex essentialism. The big current dilemma I think is honouring our individuality while appreciating how we are social beings. In lots of ways there is lots of discussion about this, it'll be interesting to see if a consensus emerges; and if so what it turns out to be.
considering how much can go wrong - just technically - with those operations and on top of that how many transitioners have started their medicalized tranformation for reasons like undiscovered trauma and other mainly psychological issues, it is mindblowing that a discussion or questions are not allowed according to trans activists
If those people blowing the horns were to actually listen to her words (a cardinal sin in their groupthink) then they may realize she never said one thing against their identity, but against the tactics and collective mindset informing their worldview. And as she said, they never consider how their worldview harms others, namely women, because they're told their identity is privileged and made more important, which it has been.
@simonhadley8829 in a group you can't. One on one you possibly could but only if they value you and your thoughts. There is no reasoning with a fanatical group, any fanatical group.
Wonderful. Brilliant and courageous woman. Aren’t we all fed up with this nonsense. By “We” I am referring to the other 99% of us - we meaning male female, gay straight and otherwise. This extreme minority is a tiny tiny fraction of society wanting special rights and status at the expense of the vast majority of us. The movement is so extreme that while I am empathetic, and always concerned with ensuring equal rights are assured for all, it can never be at the expense of another’s….particularly the majority of us. There is a “greater good” issue at stake here too. This movement has lost my support!
I wish NZ would wake up! Hopefully the court case for Kellie-J, will make people think, about abusing people for just speaking! We need to turn around now and get back to sorting out the planet.
@Sylvester272 finally, a moderate. Can you lead the TA movement please. Everyone else has come to this video to just play identity politics and attack kathleen as a person.
@Sylvester272 on this video there are mostly character attacks and deflection from the TA side. 'Trad con' 'egg','bad faith' bringing up her past, deflection. Etc. Look for yourself. No, not algorithms because i can see all the other comments too. Yours was the first critique which actually involved the issues. And i commend you for it.
There is a correlation between wealth and social attraction qua identity that entails University students a privilege to choose their identity by luck due to being wealthy enough to leverage institutional norms through interest group's ability to represent a cohort of family resemblances.
And the Birkenstock d'Or goes to @italogiardina8183! I had to read it 3 times, well done! For English speakers: These rich little trust-fund sh*ts got nothing better to do than play build-a-sex, never had a problem in their life that Daddy couldn't/didn't fix. The Universities put up with their horses*** because they're legacies.
I mean yeah, it’s nice to have an internal sense of self that is complex and somewhat unmoored from societal expectations - I genuinely think that almost every relatively intelligent person thinks that about themselves. But I think how we’re seen by the world is only up to us to a degree. It’s just important to remember that it doesn’t really matter. If some elderly person thinks I’m a chav, it doesn’t change who I am, you know?
If someone has demonstrated that they're the best person for the job, then they should get the job, and that seems to be the prevailing sentiment. If a student has demonstrated that they're the most capable, then they should be selected for the more challenging classes. This is an obvious extension of this. Do we also believe that if someone has demonstrated that they're the better parent, then they should be granted preferential treatment in custody? I'm not especially happy with the gender vs sex debate. It seems designed to obfuscate the challenges in adjudication without considering either! We're not there yet in our workplaces, or in our courtrooms, or in other bureaucracies where poor assumptions are the norm. That's the challenge, and it's associated with the broader challenge of cultivating a general public that can provide citizens to make such adjudications.
That is easy enough to say, but please do consider how you yourself will be the first to acknowledge (I hope) that determining who is "better" or "the best" is oftentimes an impossible task. Especially in the case of parenting, where both are *required* and cannot fulfill the role of the other in its entirety.
@@mylesleggette7520 So, in other words, discriminatory judgements are a replacement for critical thinking skills. I was thinking the same thing! My solution is to teach critical thinking skills openly, and introduce a level of professionalism into the decision making process when appropriate. And your solution is? You are correct that people never have perfect judgement, that doesn't excuse the absence of it.
Another unresearched fact: "If you dont allow transitioning and dont "affirm" that person will definitely be at risk for suicide." Next day - Tavistock clinic is shut down. I mean, if patients can waltz in and tell a psychologist what the solution is then we dont need these usess practitioners anyway. 🙄
👇 Join the conversation below! What are your thoughts on the debate between gender identity and biological sex? To watch the full talk don't forget to visit IAI TV: iai.tv/video/material-girls-kathleen-stock?UA-cam&+comment&
Can we see her interview a trans man such as the dude who appeared on Queer Eye?
Academia needs to fundementally change. This idea of campus, student union and collective experience is no longer viable just like this nostalgic idea about cinema.
The conservative attitude of the establishment of holding on to insitutions alresdy hallowed out and redundant is the problem.
After the sexual scandles that are no "taboo", the trust in academic papers has been increasingly diminishing. University in the format of the 60s is rotten to the core and no longer serves a purpose.
Academic side of university was always about providing oppotunities for research and learning through student's initiative in opposition to teaching students in school.
With the advent of the internet the academic side is redundant. It is interesting to note that most successful individuals who have gone on to achieve progress are those who either never attended university or those who left soon after starting university.
The social aspect of university is not too much at odds with ordinary life. It is now too traumatic of an experience for young people leaving their own environment and suddenly finding themselves living on campus. This might have been beneficial in the past but we now must admit that childhood development is very different to how it used to be in the 20th century.
University like any organisation is based on being run the staff. Now they are like asylems being run by patients.
Students find it difficult to find their place in community and therefore are becoming collectively defensive, hence this stance about identity that seems totally ireconsilable to us.
Let's not forget that we are talking about still very young people with a lot less social experience that previous generation.
So, I disagree, it is a generational problem, one that specially academics are too close to it to recognise it.
Maybe the current format but is further downsized is more suitable for older individuals wishing to have an arena for social interaction involving their interest that is much smaller and less all encompassing.
It's amazing that such narcissism and fragility is being encouraged. What will become of a generation that thinks every ego is a precious little snowflake. Shh! No one speak. You might "trigger" someone!
Nope. I won't register on your website to watch the whole conversation. I hate being tricked into watching and then being cut off! No clicks from me anymore.
I suggested to a trans work colleague that complaining loudly, repetitively and insistently about being 'dead named' (ie, people using the birth name rather than the trans name) could perhaps be offensive to another colleague who had been recently bereaved. Apparently public displays of distress at being 'dead named' were of far more psychological importance to my trans colleague than was any consideration of another colleague who had lost her husband and was left with 2 young children to raise. For the insensitivity of my comment, I was publicly berated as transphobic and a formal complaint made against me. I have no regrets. Thank you Kathleen Stock, for your courage in the face of some deeply disturbed activists.
These people are narcissists. They only care about themselves, they would have no understanding or compassion for someone outside of their 'affirming' echo chamber.
@melhawk1352 its a v odd phenomenon. Simultaneously militantly individualistic in philosophy and collectivist in it's public enforcement
You should have made a complaint against that person for being insensitive to a bereaving colleague and for harassing you!
@@3brenm It's not odd at all when seen in terms of religion or cult. It's exactly in keeping with that playbook. I'd highly recommend Andrew Doyle's book, 'The New Puritans'. He writes brilliantly and wears his considerable learning lightly.
@@lewreed1871 yer i suppose I've never seen it playing out in front of my eyes before though, so it's a little shocking. Especially when it's so unrelated to general political concerns. I remember seeing the "trans women are women" signs etc and wondering how people could just accept that without a second thought. My ex literally said "you either believe trans women are women or you don't, it's that simple." i was like "that is a drastic simplification of this issue". It's because this philosophical debate is being portrayed as a persecuted minority issue. But there is more than one thing going on here.
Another excellent speech from Kathleen Stock. She is truly courageous
Also a massive thanks to the sound engineer who managed to cancel out most of the aggressive row from the activists outside
What is courageous about being a hateful bigot?
If your deeply felt inner identity requires other (including strangers who don't care about you personally) affirm to feel validated, then it is not deeply felt, but deeply insecure.
But it does require just that. Being T requires that all of society 'buy in' to it and participate in it. Being LGB requires none of that. LGB requires no fake names, fraudulent pronouns, or medicalization. Nor does it require bastardizing the language and compelled speech in order for LGBs to be their authentic selves. LGBs rights and women's rights are based on the material reality of sex. T is based on an erotic fantasy in heterosexual, male, sexual fetishists' heads and these men are the main drivers of this movement. It is misogynist and homophobic to its core.
That seems to come from a place of deep insecurity.
Imagine you're a biological woman and you also identify as such but other people treat you as a man. What would you do? Would you be okay w it because you know deep down you're a woman? Most people would in fact argue and want to defend their identity as a woman. That's why trans people defend theirs. They don't like being called something they're not constantly
@@paintbox3011
they're never called something they're not. they choose to redefine the thing they're being called. that's not functional or tolerable behaviour, but extremely and deliberately anti-social.
colloquially, "man" is meant to refer plainly to an adult male. when it is used literally, we mean nothing but this plain fact, an adult male. personality is not included, contrary sex characteristics he displays are not included, what he looks like, how he speaks, how he dresses, who he is attracted to--none of it, with the literal definition you know most people in this society use, and as our dictionaries confirm, is relevant to him just being a "man".
while we may speak of "manly" things, and, in figurative sense, call someone "a real man" or "not a real man", when describing their character, no one actually believes that the adult male in question is not literally a man.
when an adult male feels affinity with femininity, and expresses it, and desires to be what he imagines is a woman, even feminists who will respect it to (to the point of him saying he has a right in their private areas) acknowledge that he is still a man.
there is no value-judgment attached to the literal definition of man. an adult human male is a man. he can look like anything, act like anything, feel anything, and many people will, out of sympathy for him, call him a woman as a social nicety, but he is a man and acknowledging that plain fact does not actually have anything to do with whether or not you respect his personal expression.
his manhood is a plain, neutral fact, no different to him having legs. if he has two legs, he is bipedal. if he is of the sex which is biologically inclined to produce male gametes, then, even if abnormality gives him secondary sex characteristics of a female, once he is matured, he is a "man".
the literal colloquial definition of "man" is adult male, and that is how most people use it--in fact, most trans-allies use it in this sense most of the time, but moderate their language when talking about trans people (doublethink)
so, when an adult male says he knows deep down that he is not an adult male, this is not comparable to an adult female who says she knows that she is not an adult male. your attempt to draw false equivalence between those things is an exercise in gaslighting.
it does not even matter that transgender ideologues choose to redefine established terms. they know that they are speaking to people who do not use or understand or agree with their terminology, so even if a transgender redefines "woman" to include heterosexual males with beards, they KNOW that when someone else uses that term, they are not including such people. they also KNOW that "women's bathrooms" has never referred to personal identity, but are literally purposed for plain females. they are structurally designed for the typical female body, they have never meant "somewhere where people who feel an affinity with femininity go". when they say "women's bathroom" includes males, they are deliberately, consciously, insolently, pretending that their personal redefinition of an established term is the only true one. it is literally as if i were to redefine red as blue and call you wrong when you call blue things blue. this is why people describe the ideology as insane. it is deliberately antagonistic to the most fundamental social norms and language and common logic.
@@paintbox3011 imagine people forcing people to subscribe to an alternate reality such as calling a cat a dog and expecting people to believe in it ? Does that make sense to you ? If so then there is no need to talk any further.
People should not be afraid to speak up about this! Debate is not hate. Conversation and rationale are not evil. People are afraid of losing their jobs or livelyhood if they speak their mind, but someone has to do it. This woman needs support.
Huge respect to Kathleen Stock for her work in the face of so much bullying by trans activists.
I’ve never bullied her so why say trans activists maybe a handful who are fed up with some of the non sense she spreads
If youre a trans activist, you're the problem. Kathleen can say whatever she likes, get both used to AND over it.
@@SASKHIAMENENDEZ01 How has she destroyed your life? That's a very definite statement.
@@SASKHIAMENENDEZ01Just saying “she knows she's a liar" is not an argument. You should learn how to debate.
It’s non sense if she was talking facts I would say
I have a biological sex and a personality.
Gender is a useless or even destructive concept, that needs to be challenged as much as possible.
Thank you 🙏🏼 We need to get rid of this gender concept. It solidifies harmful stereotypes.
Exactly. You are either male or female, and if you can’t come to terms with that you have a personality disorder
Gender is neither useless nor destructive when used appropriately. Sexual dimorphism generates certain behavior trends, which in turn drive cultural norms. The concept of gender is built upon these foundations - there is nothing inherently wrong with telling a weak, cowardly, unproductive male that he is not "being a man" - it's true that he is not living up to the standards and expectations for males that the "man" concept encapsulates!
The problem is when we pretend that gender is not built on a foundation of biology and/or that it can be entirely socially determined. Trying to erase biology and usher in posthumanism is the destructive part.
@@mylesleggette7520 Yes, gender is a useless and destructive concept. And no, it is not OK to tell an unproductive male that he is not "being a man." We can agree to disagree, mate.
@@mylesleggette7520 What you call "the 'man' concept" IS gender. That is EXACTLY the problem with gender. You're proving the point. Toxic masculinity gender ideology like yours is right next door to transgender ideology. Incels are one tiny step removed from becoming "transgender" themselves. You're a transwoman at heart, boy.
I think it's a relatively recent phenomenon that adults no longer label absurd, childish demands from young people as such. Rather, it seems as if those responsible (teachers, parents, universities) have completely forgotten what their task is: to act with self-confidence and adulthood and not to shy away from long-overdue discussions. Luckily there are people like Kathleen Stock who, despite ridiculous accusations and blatant bullying, stand up to their senses.
The reason we're seeing this now is because the first generation to be raised in such high levels of safety, stability, material abundance, and prosperity that they could cultivate a "feelings first" mentality are now adults taking position of power in society. This will continue to accelerate for the foreseeable future, because even those who push back against the outcomes of this mentality (like the so-called 'trans-rights' and other posthuman nonsense) do not fundamentally disagree with the foundational premises of the ideology. They still, at heart, believe it's not right that every tree in the forest does not get the same amount of light.
Complete examination of the lack of nuance and the intricacy of harm of the flat acceptance of trans ideology. Kathleen Stock is a treasure.❤ 💐
I started listening to this, and thought, "don't be so apologetic", but I listened on, and I know you’re a sensitive soul, from your mannerisms, but you've actually constructed this so well. You've driven home the point so far that they'll have to send the fire engine to a place that has already being fully distinguished.
She has a philosopher's habitual caution and fastidiousness in her use of language (I think). This is a really good thing.
Thank God for people like you, Helen Joyce and J.K.Rowling for bringing back rational thought into this ugly mess of a situation.
Kellie-Jay Keen as well.
Really, there are male rapist (trans of some kind I’m sure..) violent transgender woman bunking and living with females in a women’s prison..?name the incarcerated. As a matter of peace and safety of their charges, prison administrators have a lot of Lee way in ensuring the safety of the prisoner in their care. The numbers are important here.The trans population is about one percent. Statically, a female is more likely to be killed by a Cis white male than a trans woman, 10 to one. Are you afraid of naming the prisoner out of fear of making kids trans? By you taking the dehumanizing opinion of gender non conforming,you are doing harm to our society. We are human, entitled to the dignity of living as we please. No one is hurting you,especially trans, despite,at times living desperate lives of just surviving.If they were bad actors your agenda would be screaming this out loud. Shame on you and your ilk.
Magdalen Burns was talking about this 8 years ago.
Sadly, I think it's not until people are affected by something themselves that they take notice. Lesbians were the first casualties, then women in general. I think men think that they're largely not affected and that it's going to stay that way. They have a shock coming.
I’m undoing years of all the gaslighting by listening to as many Kathleen Stock lectures that I can find on YT.
There's a lot of people out there talking sense. Get info from as many places/people as possible.
"Material Girls" is an excellent book. A recommended read for anyone interested in how a Gay Rights movement became a machine of scientific sexism that edits children to match gender roles, spitting in the face of the former feminist and gay rights movements.
I've got it on kindle but not read it yet
I'm struggling to get a copy!
It’s a must read and so thoroughly researched.
thank you.
I've read it now.
Really interesting and well-researched. And a good read
"Medicalization of childhood identity" is one of the most chilling phrases I've ever heard.
Yes, it was meant to be. It's a dishonest scare tactic from a dishonest hate monger.
@@highroller-jq3ixbullshit
@@highroller-jq3ix She is 100 % right.
@@sandorx4 Who is right about what exactly? Are you saying that the hateful bigot is right about things that medical science and living people see completely differently? Based on what?
@@highroller-jq3ix 🙄
Here's as pure a modern hero as you're like to see today, folks.
Dame Kathleen, eventually. Take that to Betfair.
Against the tide...??
Kathleen Stock is the voice of reason we need in this time of chaos. I wish I had the chance to meet her before she was exiled from my alma mater.
When we lost sight of the blurry line between tolerance and acceptance, limitless encouragement was the logical next step.
Have you ever heard of Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance? Basically, our society has become too tolerant of the intolerance of the gender movement to any idea which doesn't conform to theirs. Popper said the paradox is we have to be intolerant to intolerant, ie no longer tolerate farfetched ideas and the bullying of the gender mob.
One of the bravest, and most inspiring women in the country - thank you 👑
I can listen to this woman for hours.
We all make projections onto others unconsciously and it is honest, trustworthy social discourse that helps us to reframe and own those projections; To help us (sometimes painfully) expose and experience our authentic selves. This requires commitment and courage.
But - "If you challenge my projections then you are a hater and will be dismissed or even punished" is a very dangerous path for individuals and reinforces the current growth of mass neurosis.
I love this woman. Intelligent and funny.
Secondeded!
How do you know she's a woman?
@@SuperKripke It is really quite simple: she doesn't look like a caricature.
@@thenorthernspinozist397 Ah I see. So to successfully exclude trans women from women's only spaces we just have to see if they fit the "caricature test". Fortunately there are no caricature tests for being a decent human being else you wouldn't pass.
@@SuperKripke Your opinion.
Thank you for having the courage to speak out on this issue.
Yes, it takes so much "courage" to hop on board the transphobic hate train.
@@highroller-jq3ix Your slurs and labels hold no water, and neither does your claimed identity
@@TheTrenchesYT Since I claimed no identity at all, your stupid, inane, pointless shrieking holds only stupidity, inanity, and pointlessness. Go get your diaper changed if holding water is such a pressing concern.
@@highroller-jq3ix actually it cost her, her job. You know, because "progressives" are so tolerant and open minded.
In this day of age, it is courageous for many people to oppose gender theory because of people like you. You can't rationalize, you can't comprehend a different opinion and, you can't tolerate so, you label things you don't like "hateful", "phobic", "dangerous" and, try to ruin the lives of those expressing these views.
@@TheTrenchesYToof, take a bow.
Kathleen Stock is a brilliant ADULT HUMAN FEMALE. Thank you.
You mean a brilliant woman.
@@LovelyDay11 How do you know she's a woman?
@@SuperKripke she is not a caricature 🤣😂
@@habibie I thought you guys hated circular definitions? The question remains whether cis women that look like dudes pass your test or not. Also, guarantee you that there are many women that have transitioned that you cannot tell are trans on sight alone.
@@SuperKripke She IS a woman.
True hero, as someone commented previously. She’s indeed a true modern hero. Thank you, professor, for speaking up. We’re with from.
What is your personal, and seemingly quite stupid, definition of a "hero?"
Kathleen Stock is spot on! Hopefully the message is getting out there, we will not comply with this nonsense- GET OVER IT!!
Hyper individualism combined with this victim mindset which is so extreme it's off the scale.
Women are blessed to have this amazing woman on their side. Long live the Stock! (by middle aged white adult human male)
She is on the side of _all_ sensible human beings.
The voice of reason in a truly sad world. I fear for my grandchildren.....
This will pass. The next generation, will have something on its fringe. That is over reactive, and appalling to the majority.
This is why existence of transgender people is bringing reason to an otherwise cultish belief system that man or woman is this or that, which were rooted in a belief, and not science. gender bianry itself was brought in from colonists, in ancient societies there were mutiple genders , the original Jewish Torah itself had 6 genders.
Thank you so much much Kathleen Stock for speaking up even with so much backlash. I just can’t imaging bringing my thoughts together with an outraging mob that is not capable of or willing to have a rational debate, and trying to intimidate. The first sign that people probably fighting for the wrong thing is when they use pressure, intimidation and the victim role instead of a civilised discussion. Such an intelligent, rational and well spoken woman. I’m shocked who agreed on letting men into woman cells or changing rooms. With all will to respect minority groups, that’s insane!
As someone who spent the first 23 years of my life in a cult, one of the first things I noticed (around 10 years ago) about the transgender movement was the similarities to a cult. Please reference Steven Hassan’s work on High Control Groups.
Love bombing, rote repetition (Trans women are women), intolerance of any swaying from group thought, shunning of members who leave. Absolutely cult behaviors
You are wrong, most trans folk live isolated lives because of a lack of acceptance from mean and intolerant people.
Transgender is not a cult because it is not rooted in a belief but purely in a biology and self determination to embody our spirit. hat is a cult is a belief that woman is someone who has a vagina, because it s rooted in a belief. What we are witnessing here is a self projection, transgender peopel are the voice of mother nature rebelling against this oppressive colonial sexist system.
Kathleen Stock’s thoughts and reflections are so necessary to be heard .. she brings relevant and insightful perspectives 👏
Kathleen, at this point, I find it physically painful listening to you or Helen Joyce going back to this level of dissecting of science and common sense in an attempt to explain these fundamentals of human biology. I truly admire you for still being bothered to do so. As a philosopher, it must feel painfully regressive. Thank you.
Kathleen stock is completely right❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Rational thinking, how refreshing. Courage, how rare. Stop the insanity. Thank-you.
You seem insane. Stop.
The fact that her voice is breaking as she speaks shows how much one fears to speak one's mind nowadays
Yes, i noticed that. She's genuinely nervous and not even saying anything controversial. Crazy
I'd say she's just not a natural public speaker.
I want to give her a hug, "speak, even when your voice shakes."
Because she knows how her ideology is fascistic in its essence. It erases someone's sovereignty and agency over their own mind and body.
@@Shalanaya It takes one to know one.
This weirdness is now worldwide. The council in Christchurch, New Zealand, advertises "Women's Wednesdays" at its Linwood swimming pool, where women can feel safe with all-female staff and blinds over the windows to avoid peeping toms. BUT the advertising for it says that "All women are welcome, including trans women and people who identify as a woman" - so clearly including men! How is that supposed to be safe for women? In NZ, the law was changed in June to allow anyone to legally change their sex on their birth records, passport, etc., just by filling in a form, with no medical evidence of any kind required, so a man can "prove" that he's legally a woman simply by going through this simple process, with no medical intervention or even psychological back-up. Parents now have the right to register a child as whichever sex they prefer, and the parents can choose to be registered on the birth certificate as whichever parent (father, mother, or just parent) that they prefer. Madness!
Is it true? That'd be a catastrophy for children and women.
@@ReoAard and understanding of language/reality
@@3brenm You're right
Get your asses into gear New Zealanders! Repeal this awful anti-women law. May reason prevail.
And it was slipped in so quietly. The only reason I found out (two days after it happened!) was because the way we treated KJ Keane shocked me so much so I looked her up, and listening to both sudes it was obvious who was sane and correct and who was behaving like an outraged religious cult. So I then looked up a women’s rights activist in nz to support and they told me!
Dear trans community
Do not tell me I have to accept who you are when you could not accept yourself for who you were.
Much Gratitude for standing up against the totalitarians, and for keeping your sense of humour in the face of this encroaching darkness. And thank you so much for pointing out the ridiculous attempts by the child sterilization acolytes to force even " undefined " people under their malevolent umbrella.
Bless you Professor Stock-you are a hero (ine) There has to be room for debate and all sides heard.
Glad you like debate i summit the following statement: There are male rapist (trans of some kind I’m sure..) really? violent transgender woman bunking and living with females in a women’s prison..?name the incarcerated. As a matter of peace and safety of their charges, prison administrators have a lot of Lee way in ensuring the safety of the prisoner in their care. The numbers are important here.The trans population is about one percent. Statically, a female is more likely to be killed by a Cis white male than a trans woman, 10 to one. Are you afraid of naming the prisoner out of fear of making kids trans? By you taking the dehumanizing opinion that gender non conforming, are dangers or just interlopers,you are doing harm to our society. We are human, entitled to the dignity of living as we please. No one is hurting you,especially the peaceful trans, despite,at times living desperate lives of just surviving.If they were bad actors your agenda would be screaming this out loud. Shame on you and your ilk.
@@Preciouspink do you even listen to people like Stock? They are not against trans people but against an aggressive ideology that denies scientific facts. Denying scientific facts hurts everyone, trans people included. Listen to Stock before speaking against her.
@@PreciouspinkBarbie kardeshian, Karen white, Katie Dolatowski, Dana Rivers and the list goes on and on and on. And on. But seriously only one would be one to many. Women in prisons matter. They safety, their well being matter. Women in prisons matter.
@@Preciouspinkoh and another fun fact; Finland has only one serial killer that meets the official FBI criteria. Only one. He identifies as woman. He’s trans.
@@impossibleagent3663 so do trans women and they are far more likely to be sexually assaulted. What are those names?
Please upload the whole video. Not everyone wants to subscribe to your organisation but this talk is important.
The channel pinned a link at the top of the comments that will take you to their website, where they have the entire talk (which I have not gone to, myself, because I’m still watching this video).
She is amazing. The formal analysis of the document is brilliant: in the language of trans-activism, there is no room for nuance or concession. It is indeed totalizing.
The idea of identity being pulled, wholly, from the individual (inside) is pervasive across the board. It's not only with sexual identity. It's with everyone.
That's not true. "Gender" is UNIQUE, in being 100% evidence-free, subjective and unfalsifiable, yet being treated like some innate, externally-verifiable trait, like race or sex (well, evidence-free """gender""" self-ID is being claimed to REPLACE evidence-based sex).
But MOST of the labels we've given the MOST credence and protection to til now, are real, externally verifiable, evidence-based traits;
I'm black. Stock is white. NEITHER is some "internal", subjective, evidence-free, opt-in label like """gender""", where ANYONE can claim ANY label, because it's 100% internal; Not even the most radical lefty would buy it if Stock "identified as black"... But they WOULD buy it, if she "identified as a man"...
And the label of sex ISN'T "internal" like "gender"- You can claim ANY self-ID'd "gender" you can think of, all with EQUAL validity, because it IS purely "internal", and 100% removed from real-world EVIDENCE...
But you CAN'T do that with sex... Because sex ISN'T internal and evidence-free; Sex is EXTERNALLY-verifiable, evidence-based, biologcal reality.
Same with almost ALL labels that are granted protection by anti-discrimination laws- Sex, race, disability. Even "gay" and "lesbian" ARE externally disprovable (or they USED to be, til the left re-wrote reality...)- If I claim to be gay, (UNLIKE any "gender" label I choose) that is disproved, if you discover that I've shared a bed with my wife, for almost a decade... And if I claim to be "lesbian" (to a sane person) that's immediately externally disproved, by me being a man...
The ONLY labels protected by anti-discrimination laws, that come close to the "internal", unfalsifiable nature of "gender", is ideological labels, like political alignment, or religious belief...
But we all ACKNOWLEDGE that nobody is born with political or religious beliefs- That these beliefs are A CHOICE we each make- We treat those traits different to FIXED traits like race and sex, that we DON'T choose.
But believers in gender, expect is to treat it like a fixed, evidence-based, externally-verifiable trait like sex or race or disability... even though ALL EVIDENCE says its a belief you choose, like a political or religious label.
Expecting the world to PRETEND to believe that a biologcal man is somehow "REALLY a woman", and wanting us all to use "she/her" pronouns for a man, is the same as a religious believer, expecting non-belivers to PRETEND to believe he's "saved", or "god's chosen one", or something.
"Gender" is the ONLY kind of internal, unverifiable, label, where the whole world is expected to pretend it's EXTERNAL, and real...
(If "gender" played by the rules that every OTHER religion adhered to, I'd have no issue with it... But we're all expected to pretend that "non-binary" and "male women" AREN'T just religious beliefs,; We're supposed to pretend that this ONE religion's evidence-free fantasys are "the REAL Truth...")
We used to use our clothes, hair or jewelry to demand a certain response from people. Thank goodness my uniform as a teen was so easy to discard. We age and move on, adopting a gender can also be discarded but surgery takes it to a level where permanence becomes dangerous. Shedding our clothes or uniform is important as we grow as people.
She's been so bravely fighting for critical thinking, and the thought police so fiercely focused on cancelling her, I'm afraid we're lost for at least a century of enlightment on such complex issues. Respect, Dr Stock; shame on you, the so-called "academia".
What a wonderful human being x
Trans activists should listen to critical voices like Kathleen and educate themselves by engaging with her instead witch hunting.
It's a difficult issue, and it's hard to bring any kind of nuance into it without angering both sides of the discussion. We shouldn't be so focussed on labels, and recognize each other as unique human beings, who are worthy of love and understanding. But also within reason.
I think it is absolutely imperative that teachers talk to parents. It’s not like they are not going to find out their kid is trans sooner or later. Seems the activists just don’t want parents in the picture so they can totally indoctrinate kids without opposition.
The activists can bog off. No way is a jumped up bully telling me I can't be involved with my kids education and welfare. Thank god my children are safe from the mainstream education. Uni is an absolute NO.
EXACTLY!
It is a child abuse for a child to be told they are a girlk or boy just based on their genitalia, I hope you understand that.
@@Shalanaya Wow. You're far gone. How is aknowledging a material fact child abuse? Is it the BUTBUTBUT ma iDenTitY?! Pretty brainwashed and narcissistic. But, you do you.
@@Shalanayait’s child abuse to make kids believe they can be something when they can’t no matter how many hormones they take and how much surgery they get.
I have immense respect for Kathleen Stock.
so much thoughtful reflection in so short a period of time. critically important work.
Kathleen Stock has great ability to analyse fairly the arguments of trans activists. She points to the overuse of the word “dog whistle” and maps out the total lack of nuance and refusal to negotiate or debate. She does right in focussing on the institutions complicity and promotion of this philosophy. It amounts to a totally inward looking attitude where inner feelings swamp everything else.
The voice of reason always ❤
Kathleen is simply brilliant 👏🏼
Let that sink in: is there ANY area of human existence where the very act of negotiation is an unalloyed harm? We exist 24/7 in negotiation with ourselves and our societies.
Pretty sure sex will always matter. In reality.
I sometimes wonder if the real reason why young people are so loud and uncompromising on these issues as opposed to other, one would think, more important aspects of life (i.e., political protests) is because this may be the only ground their demands make waves. They are listened to. In other traditional areas they feel, and rightly so, completely excluded from any kind of serious debates (eg. student loans, cost of living, inflation, climate change ....). I am not sure if self-identity is a real problem here????
Not just young people. I feel politically homeless and powerless in terms of party politics. You may be right though.
A friend told me that I had male privilege. When asked to expand on that, she said that as a man, I would never know or understand what is was like to walk on a trail or in a parking lot and be afraid of someone attacking me to sexually assault or kidnap me. She acknowledged that as a man i could still be robbed, or murdered, but women also have those concerns. That is why she explained why safe places are so so so important for women, and to be in a place like a bathroom or a locker room where they can also just worry about being robbed or murdered and not have to worry that some man who claims to identify as a women is a predictor looking for their next victim when they are at their most vulnerable.
Have you followed the story of swimmer Lia Thomas?
Your friend's telepathic and precognitive powers are quite impressive! While she is busy patronizingly explaining to you what experiences you will never have you should ask her what the winning lotto numbers will be!
Meanwhile in the real world, men get sexually assaulted and kidnapped every day, and have to live with the fear of that for the rest of their lives. The concerns she tried to explain to you are very real, but I have grown tired of people trying to explain the world through a "you could never understand what it's like for us" lens. It's not just that it's condescending and annoying, it's that it's just so *unnecessary*. People can make their points just fine without pretending their experiences are unique to their group.
There is some truth to what your friend says. However this is a game which can be played endlessly, dividing people into arbitrary groups and claiming one has privilege over another. So one can make a case for male privilege, female privilege, white privilege, tall privilege, wealthy privilege, attractiveness privilege, young privilege, etc. It isn't helpful or productive. We all face different challenges in life, how is whining that someone else has it easier going to help?
Prof Stock is fantastic.
We need more courageous people like this who provide a rational voice amid the tumult of screaming madness.
When someone demands something of the other it is almost a given that there will be a lack of acceptance. No one wants to be forced to do anything. I support the LGBTQ community but there are limits to all of our experiences, no matter who we are or how we identify. Trans women need stay out of women’s sports. Trans men should not be forced into men’s prison. This woman is hitting it right out of the ballpark!
Damn me!!! She is quite good. A rare find. First person, that I agree 100% on every statement.
So educational and a pleasure to listen to.
Her point about institutions forming students to think this way is right.
I love this woman and agree with most that she says
My sister suffered with anorexia when she was younger. Imagine where we'd be if we had affirmed her 'mistaken' belief that she was fat? Being a man and thinking you are a woman does not make it so.....
Happy to support Trans rights, once they have been clearly defined, argued and agreed.
The whole *point* of trans rights is that they cannot be clearly defined or agreed upon, because they are, by definition, transgressive. Their very essence is to cross boundaries, which makes any agreement fundamentally unstable and short-lived.
I have woken up from the left liberal i used to be to common sense, thank you Kathleen
A voice of reason amidst nonsense noises ❤
We now have a kind of gender essentialism replacing sex essentialism. The big current dilemma I think is honouring our individuality while appreciating how we are social beings. In lots of ways there is lots of discussion about this, it'll be interesting to see if a consensus emerges; and if so what it turns out to be.
Excellent discussion
I love Kathleen Stock, what an incredibly smart and eloquent woman.
This is like Blade Runner meets Lord Of The Flies meets Jim Jones.
a wonderful video and a wonderful speaker - thanks so much for this.
Thanks beautiful woman Kathleen 💐❣️💐
Newest video at Peak Trans is very good.
The woman who has the channel was attacked by Transpeople in Hyde park. Shown in video.
Thanks for this!
considering how much can go wrong - just technically - with those operations and on top of that how many transitioners have started their medicalized tranformation for reasons like undiscovered trauma and other mainly psychological issues, it is mindblowing that a discussion or questions are not allowed according to trans activists
If those people blowing the horns were to actually listen to her words (a cardinal sin in their groupthink) then they may realize she never said one thing against their identity, but against the tactics and collective mindset informing their worldview. And as she said, they never consider how their worldview harms others, namely women, because they're told their identity is privileged and made more important, which it has been.
True, but how does one reason with fanatics?
@simonhadley8829 not sure, but no longer going along with and speaking back against their narrative, especially the outright lies, is part of it
@simonhadley8829 in a group you can't. One on one you possibly could but only if they value you and your thoughts. There is no reasoning with a fanatical group, any fanatical group.
The contrast between the subtle nuanced ideas of Kathleen Stock and the ranty, slogan driven radical trans movement couldn't be clearer.
Or the horns blown by activists in the background
She is fantastic
Wonderful. Brilliant and courageous woman. Aren’t we all fed up with this nonsense. By “We” I am referring to the other 99% of us - we meaning male female, gay straight and otherwise. This extreme minority is a tiny tiny fraction of society wanting special rights and status at the expense of the vast majority of us. The movement is so extreme that while I am empathetic, and always concerned with ensuring equal rights are assured for all, it can never be at the expense of another’s….particularly the majority of us. There is a “greater good” issue at stake here too. This movement has lost my support!
Extortion by project affected identify.
I wish NZ would wake up! Hopefully the court case for Kellie-J, will make people think, about abusing people for just speaking! We need to turn around now and get back to sorting out the planet.
@@johncarter1150 Words random Wednesday inexplicable by.
@Sylvester272 finally, a moderate. Can you lead the TA movement please. Everyone else has come to this video to just play identity politics and attack kathleen as a person.
@Sylvester272 on this video there are mostly character attacks and deflection from the TA side. 'Trad con' 'egg','bad faith' bringing up her past, deflection. Etc. Look for yourself. No, not algorithms because i can see all the other comments too. Yours was the first critique which actually involved the issues. And i commend you for it.
Good talk.
Can’t comment how I really feel due to censorship. All I’ll say is “I AM DONE”.
There is a correlation between wealth and social attraction qua identity that entails University students a privilege to choose their identity by luck due to being wealthy enough to leverage institutional norms through interest group's ability to represent a cohort of family resemblances.
Middle + upper class uni kids self-identifying into oppressed categories in order to escape being part of the oppressor class, basically.
@@L_Martin Thanks for the translation. 😁
WHAT ?
@@janesmith8050 A run-on sentence loaded with lingo that is almost worthy of Judith Butler herself 😂
And the Birkenstock d'Or goes to @italogiardina8183! I had to read it 3 times, well done!
For English speakers: These rich little trust-fund sh*ts got nothing better to do than play build-a-sex, never had a problem in their life that Daddy couldn't/didn't fix. The Universities put up with their horses*** because they're legacies.
Bottom line is, there just isn’t space for everyone…
It’s just the way it is.
Thanks
People need to go further back than just reading 1984; they should go back to their nurseries and read The Emperor's New Clothes.
Kathleen Stock talks so much sense. Everything she says has so much clarity to it.
Brilliant !
I recommend the video essay "what the hell is going on" by Yotuber baggage claim to everyone who enjoyed this speech. It really is a great overview.
I rather like the idea of being undefined - or even 'undefinable' - and not just relating to sex/ gender. Has a liberating ring to it...
Nobody can opt out of reality. Everyone is definable by biological sex.
That's why it appeals to kids -- particularly young girls and metrosexual types. It's just not that simple.
“My label is ‘unlabelled’!”
I mean yeah, it’s nice to have an internal sense of self that is complex and somewhat unmoored from societal expectations - I genuinely think that almost every relatively intelligent person thinks that about themselves. But I think how we’re seen by the world is only up to us to a degree. It’s just important to remember that it doesn’t really matter. If some elderly person thinks I’m a chav, it doesn’t change who I am, you know?
I think it’s hilarious. I just might get a t-shirt printed. 🤪
If someone has demonstrated that they're the best person for the job, then they should get the job, and that seems to be the prevailing sentiment.
If a student has demonstrated that they're the most capable, then they should be selected for the more challenging classes. This is an obvious extension of this.
Do we also believe that if someone has demonstrated that they're the better parent, then they should be granted preferential treatment in custody?
I'm not especially happy with the gender vs sex debate. It seems designed to obfuscate the challenges in adjudication without considering either!
We're not there yet in our workplaces, or in our courtrooms, or in other bureaucracies where poor assumptions are the norm.
That's the challenge, and it's associated with the broader challenge of cultivating a general public that can provide citizens to make such adjudications.
Have you followed the story of swimmer Lia Thomas, who competes as a woman in NCAA competitions?
That is easy enough to say, but please do consider how you yourself will be the first to acknowledge (I hope) that determining who is "better" or "the best" is oftentimes an impossible task. Especially in the case of parenting, where both are *required* and cannot fulfill the role of the other in its entirety.
@@mylesleggette7520 So, in other words, discriminatory judgements are a replacement for critical thinking skills.
I was thinking the same thing!
My solution is to teach critical thinking skills openly, and introduce a level of professionalism into the decision making process when appropriate.
And your solution is?
You are correct that people never have perfect judgement, that doesn't excuse the absence of it.
What a wonderful woman
*he
Bravo!
Another unresearched fact: "If you dont allow transitioning and dont "affirm" that person will definitely be at risk for suicide."
Next day - Tavistock clinic is shut down. I mean, if patients can waltz in and tell a psychologist what the solution is then we dont need these usess practitioners anyway. 🙄
Well said
Trans radicalism is the first rights movement based psychologically on narcissism and politically on extreme neo-liberalism.
When one person takes power ( gains follower ) it does sound like a very specific kink.
I am a male human who is attracted to other males and I fully agree with her.
This person is simply experiencing The Female Rage Of Obsolescence 🥰