Finishing a Basement - Part 3 - Attaching Walls to Floating Sub Floor
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Part 3 of my basement finishing project.
In this video I describe how I attached the walls to the floating sub floor. This floating floor is designed to be used in conjunction with the vapor & damp-proofing wall & floor design we accomplished in Parts 1 & 2. This attachment method prevents us from penetrating and compromising any part of the vapor barrier we completed in Part 1 as opposed to other floor designs which may use fasteners through the floor to the concrete which then compromises the vapor barrier we spent time, energy, and money we created in the first place.
Prior to starting my project, I had a hard time finding useful information about how to design a basement with the best protection against water and the mold, mildew, mustiness, and rot that eventually come with it. This design is the result of quite a bit of research and discussion with building professionals. I hope this might be helpful to those of you embarking on your own basement finishing or remodeling project.
Video Links for this series
Part 7 - Fire Blocking: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 6e - Framing a Steel Beam: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 6d - Enclosing Support Posts: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 6b - Framing a Soffit: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 6a - Framing Challenges: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 5d - Setting and Plumbing: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 5c - Determining Stud Heights: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 5b - Locating Studs for you Wall: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 5a - Laying Out Interior Walls: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 4 - Laying Out Exterior Walls: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 3 - Attaching Walls to Floor: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 2 - Floor Insulation and Floating Sub Floor: • Finishing a Basement -...
Part 1 - Insulation & Damp-Proofing: • Finishing a Basement -...
Product Links:
Super Seal damp-proofing subfloor: www.superseal....
Owens Corning Foamular Insulation: www.foamular.co...
Advantech Flooring: www.huberwood....
Music Credits:
"Bustin Loose (with lead)" by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...) Artist: audionautix.com/.
"Work Week" by Topher Mohr & Alex Elena
I respect the thermal break however have you ever had a cold glass of water in a hot summer day the moisture always will come through inorganic substances cannot grow mold you're on the right track awesome videos thank you
Thanks for the feedback. I think what you're referring to with the glass of water on a hot day is condensation from the water in the air on the cold of the glass. This is not moisture moving from the water through the glass, it is the effect of the cold glass causing the water in the humid (summer) air condensing on the outside surface of the glass, just like dew on a cool morning. This is another reason why you want a thermal break, so that the cold from the basement foundation walls does not cause moisture from the air in the basement to condense on your walls.
Does the insulation on the floor have to be that thick? Or can you use something thinner? Great video(s)! Can't wait for the next one!
On the floor we used only 1" XPS, and then combined with the dimple mat and the wood sub floor it resulted in roughly 2" total thickness. I suggest you want to stay with an XPS product which is a closed cell foam and functions as a moisture / vapor barrier. It also provide a significant degree of "softness" to the floor but yet is still extremely rigid when the sub floor is overlaid on top if it (if that makes sense). The Owens Corning XPS Foamular I used has a R-Value of 5 itself which in the end is not all that much, but with the combination of the dimple mat and wood sub floor on top, I will tell you from my personal experience that temperature and "softness" compared to walking / standing on top of the concrete is substantially better. I know this is a concern in some constructions with regard to headroom, but you need to make the best compromise decision for your construction. In the end if you find a thinner XPS product ...even 1/2", that really does not make a big difference in head room savings in my opinion.
Need more videos dude idc even if its about how to scratch your butt !! I think you have the talent for a good instructor
Appreciate the feedback. More coming when I can get some time.....stay tuned.
Great video, Jason. I did the basement of my previous home. I didn't use the first black layer you did. I used concrete screws to fasten the plywood on top of foam board. I framed walls before laying down the floors insulation boards. Now after watched your video, I am thinking of following your way to do the insulation, but do have concern about the wall built on soft subfloor and floating plywood layer may move during or after the project. I guess at least to build a bathroom with tiles, the subfloor has to be enforced. Can you confirm there have been no issues after your project? Thanks.
If you want to lay ceramic tile then you may need to be a bit more careful as you said it needs to be pretty solid to prevent cracking of the grout over time. Remember the design employed here is to maximize moisture/vapor proofing and minimize heat loss, so the optimum florring here will be carpet or other "softer" flooring such as floating laminates, vinyl tile, etc.
@@Buffalo-J Thanks for the reply. Another thing in my mind is the Superseal membrane seems to be very good qualitied product, but do you think if the cheaper options that are available in HD or other stores can do the work? Something like this : www.ihlcanada.com/6-ft-x-65-6-ft-system-platon-membrane-390-sq-ft-15147 a quarter inch thick.
@@Torontomato : apologies but as I don't use those other products I really cant comment. In the end, your looking for the same type of form and function from your dimple mat type product, specifically the ability to breath and above the concrete, but also be able to carry a sufficient load after you lay all your flooring and put walls, furniture and people on top of it.
@@Buffalo-J Thank you!
Your videos are amazing. You explain everything masterfully. Having spent a long time considering all options, I'm going to follow your system exactly. My house is a few hours away from Buffalo, near Detroit - cold climate area. However, I have a question; for the walls, did you consider spray-in, closed cell, insulation versus the rigid foam boards that you did use? I was strongly considering that. Thank you so much for this great info. I greatly appreciate it.
Thanks for the feedback. I did consider the spray-in foam but just went with the board for my own convenience. As long as its closed cell it should be a good solution, but you may want to consider masking off things you don't want oversprayed...also I might suggest doing this after you install the floor vapor barrier and insulation so that the wall spray foam seals over the top of it. Good luck!
@@Buffalo-J - oh this is great! You answered the question that was nagging me - how to deal with the joint between the insulation and floor? I had thought of leaving a gap for potential water vapour escape/evaporation behind the wall but in front of the insulation. Alternatively, I thought that I could seal the joint/gap with spray foam. However, you solved the problem - floor first, followed by spray-in insulation. Again, thank you so much. Truly, I greatly appreciate your response, advice, and superb videos.
Excellent videos. A question about not tap conning (or similar) the Advantech to the concrete. You say that the floor is very sturdy just using the tongue and groove of the Advantech attached only to the wall frame. But, don't you get some "give" and potential squaking of the floor as you move further from the basement walls? It would seem that the further away from the framed basement walls, the more "give" there would be in the subfloor. Or, are you saying that the foam insulation provides sufficient support to prevent this "give". What if I just put the Advantech directly on the dimpled underlayment with no foam insulation? Would I then need to screw the Advantech to the concrete floor to get sufficient support? (I'm not sure I need the insulation and expense). Thanks.
This is 4-5 years now and have never had one squeek or any movement. Tapping trough the floor is exactly counter to the entire design idea to prevent moisture (refer to vids 1 & 2) and also why we use screws and NOT nails to prevent squeeks. Most squeeks in wooden structures come from thermal expansion of the wood against the nails shank and/or then creating looseness. The use of screws is exactly to avoid that.
would some sort of construction adhesive work on the bottom plate to the subfloor instead of screws?
This is 4-5 years now and have never had one squeek or any movement. Most squeeks in wooden structures come from thermal expansion of the wood against the nails shank and/or then creating looseness. The use of screws is exactly to avoid that. Myself, I would never just use adhesive because for the cost of some screws and an hour I want a permanent solution. If you added adhesive with the screws, NOW your talking ! :) That's exactly what "good" contractors do when installing subfloor - glue AND screw!
Did you have an inspection? Did they have positive or negative feedback, or did you just do all this under the radar?
Structural / framing inspections are subject to whatever locale you live in. In many cases a structural / framing inspection would not be required as none of this is structural or load bearing framing; the structure is the foundation walls and the framing in this basement finishing is is only finishing framing. A good point as the design of a finished system should never create a structural change to the existing structure or then an inspection would be required.
Hi ok first thing I love your video that said I'm looking to do the same thing here is where I'm at I had some wet spots on my walls but not leaks into the basement so I cleaned up the walls then built up the around my foundation so here in my question is putting the 1inch foam tight to the walls and sealing it up good really ok ?
In short, yes. That's exactly the reason why you want to use this basement finishing method to keep not if, but when, moisture works it way to your interior space, you keep it completely isolated from your finished materials. Remember, concrete is always wet (even it feels dry to you), and basement concrete is always exposed to even more moisture on the other side....ever notice that musty smell in other basements....that's moisture working its way through the concrete and into the building materials causing deterioration, mold, and mildew. I suggest watching the first two videos in this series and you will get much more on this topic form those.
How did you accomplish your vertical fire blocking?
Great question. There really is not much info about there about how to accomplish BOTH the foam insulation to prevent basement moisture AND achieving fire blocking which will meet code. There are a couple ways to do this and I intend to show that in a video to follow.
I too am interested in seeing how you did the fire blocking. If the entirety of the wall is covered in foam including rim joist, sill plate, and all of the concrete, I'm not sure how it can be done to code.
Love the system but add so much height in basement ps where height is limited.
It does add some height and that's a personal decision. I was concerned about this myself, but in the end it is really barely noticeable. Consider that in a "short" 7ft. high basement it cuts only 2% total height. It really was not noticeable when in use.
Did you get any cracking in the finished walls later because you fastened the walls to a floating floor?
No. At least not yet. Keep in mind however that finishing in a basement inherently different than finishing in above-grade floors. In a basement you're building with wood or steel framing material and drywall or similar in connection with concrete...all which have different coefficients of thermal expansion, or in other words all expand at different rates with changing temperature. In this design, the fact that the wood framing is NOT actually fastened to the concrete at all also helps to eliminate that thermal expansion difference. The floating floor is still very secure to itself and by connection to all bottom plates and sides of the walls, so all of the walls are interconnected, and therefor the floor is also fixed in place (wood to wood) relative top the walls, without restriction or tension from the concrete.
Hi - Thanks for posting these videos. I am in the process of doing my basement as well and doing some research but wanted to see if you left any space between the closed cell insulation and the 2x4 walls, it looks like you did but I know you had mentioned that you were going to be putting the walls right up to the insulation to help hold it in place. Also, are you going to be using insulation inside the wall cavity in addition to the closed cell insulation? Thanks.
In most cases the walls were in fact spaced away from the insulation simply because I had to work around various plumbing, etc. protruding from the wall, and/or the walls are not perfectly straight so even where the wall can be "up to" to the insulation, in many places it is not. I actually do intend to mention / address this in video 4 (soon....).
I actually have never noticed any indication that the foamboard adhesive would loosen from the concrete walls and if I even pull on the board today it's adhered pretty darn tight, so I really don't have any fear of the foam coming loose. At the same time the concrete I was working with was very well formed and solid, however, if I was working with a more brittle, crumbling/flaking, or otherwise questionable concrete or motared surface, I might do one or more of the following: a) add more adhesive than what I showed in video 1, and/or b) add some small pieces of rigid foam spacers between your framed walls/studs and the insulation panels which will hold the panels in place the same as if the studs were directly against it. Keep in mind it's far more important to have straight and square finished walls than trying to keep your framing against non-straight/square exterior walls....
Also forgot to add...I do plan on adding Roxul Safe & Sound as a combined fireblocking / insulation...BUT...I do not believe this is required as an insulation alone because the results I'm getting from the foam board and especially the thermal break / insulation on the flooring is making a substantial difference on its own. Added insulation will be a benefit, but I do not believe a necessity unless you're in a particularly cold climate. Fireblocking is another story....I'll address that in another video.
Buffalo J great videos. I’m glad I came across these as this will be my next project that I will be tackling. In regards to the rigid foam, I was always told if you’re going to use this that the adhesive is not enough by itself. You have to anchor them to the walls as well. In time that adhesive will break down and the boards will come loose as there is always moisture in the concrete.
Can’t wait for the next video
@@skyline5354 That is a good point and I did not update or show what I had done relative to this so maybe I'll add an update at some point. As mentioned in the videos, you cannot always get the framing to be up against the insulation (despite best intention), and in fact it's ends up being rarely actually in contact with the foam board. In my build, there are two ways I address this same concern you mentioned about having something more mechanical to keep the foam in place. 1. The fireblocking method AI am using employs rockwool insulation and this is both between the studs themselves and also between the studs and the foam board, so this results in some physical / mechanical contact between the framed wall and board to keep it in place. 2. In some places where the are larger gaps between the studs and foam board I used some sections of foam board to act as shims between the wall studs and the foam board on the walls thus also creating a physical connection between the two (the foam pieces shim the space between the stud and foam board). I have seen anchors used to attached the foam board to the concrete, and this can be done, but if not done well and will additional sealing in the anchor penetration, you've compromised your vapor barrier with every anchor anyway.
Plumb not level.
Yep. Good catch. Thanks.
Nice. Has the area been dry since you went with this method???
Thanks. Yes it's been perfectly dry and in fact I've had a number of visitors comment even before adding drywall or covering that there is a significant difference in temperature / coziness in the rooms.
4:35 am i the only one who hears starwars? lol
Yeah, when this video was first made my younger daughter did the editing and actually had star wars music throughout because she knows I'm a fan. But that would have caused a copyright issue so I had to go back and paste over all the music...that little 2-sec bit must have been misplaced and slipped through :)
@@Buffalo-J ok good i'm not crazy LOL still a very helpful video, thank you for making it !