Totally true. In my case, I wasn’t only a tall poppy, but also a poppy with different colour. Unfortunately they couldn’t resist not sharpening their knives.
I’m a kiwi and I married an American woman. My eyes completely opened once I learnt from my wife what she saw about NZ culture. I have come to learn that this syndrome is very toxic and the culture here is actually very backwards. And I really had no idea until I met my wife. At first I argued with her as I didn’t see it so I disagreed and thought it was just her wrong opinion and not the truth. But slowly I learnt she was right and as I emerged out of my ignorance, I began to realise not only how right she was, but how terrible and fucked it is for our kiwi society as a whole. It’s not how people should be at all. My wife found tall poppy syndrome very weird and foreign to her. Now I see it I seriously cannot stand it and I put this syndrome in the same category as bullying. Except in my eyes I see it as worse because it’s herd mentality bullying so it’s become acceptable (but in reality it’s unacceptable) and it’s almost invisible if everyone is doing it. Nobody seems to think for themselves in NZ and I do see that as very uneducated and backwards, now that I see things clearly. I think NZ has a long way to go and I’m not sure how this culture is going to move forward. I actually want to get out of NZ and move to the U.S with my wife after learning about this syndrome. It’s actually really frustrating and almost morally wrong to live in a society that degrades or diminishes success. It’s a form of jealousy too and I hate that. I’d rather live in a world where people encourage and celebrate success. Doing the opposite is pretty fucked when you think about it. This topic has shook the core foundation of my own personality especially as I’m seeing it a lot from my own family, and it’s pushing me away from NZ. I have a lot to unlearn from NZ’s culture that is ingrained within me. I think it’s actually really bad and it needs to be stamped out before new kiwi generations enter adulthood. Education and awareness of toxic cultural behaviours is the first step to stamping this fucked up syndrome out! Great video btw brother 👍
Yeah it was americans who opened my eyes too - I used to think of them as braggarts, but now just realise they're shameless around success which is something that was completely foreign to me. All my USA friends are supportive and encouraging, whereas my Kiwi friends are a mixed bag - some even discouraging
Amazing video Dan. Yes, I felt the TPS in NZ whilst I lived there.... incredibly enough I come from a country where the TPS is also widely spread. As you mentioned, there are certain environments/cultures where it's harder to stand out, excel, etc... it's like people around you would prefer for you to be normal, average, mediocre, etc... In my experience, after years of believing what the average people said, I realised it was nothing but envy and fear that they felt towards me being different, flamboyant, weird, introverted, talented, etc. As you mentioned, here in Aussie the opposite is true: people want to stand out and they're not afraid of drawing attention or being different... they're supported for taking risks and talking about themselves without shame or guilt.... Brojo meetings and the larger community in Auckland provided me with a safe and non-judgemental environment to shatter any TPS effect that had burdened me in the past. I find the community of bros and coaches there to be very supportive of all the guys that want to change, take risks and better themselves. Well done.. and keep up the good work!
Australia definitely has the tall poppy syndrome, but it only manifests in insecure people. I experienced it first hand after moving from the US to Melbourne to do a PhD. I won't go into details, but it was absolutely toxic, and I suffered immensely as a result (I should have just stopped interacting with those people, but I didn't know any better at the time). However, I learned from that experience how to be strong, secure, and independent, so I'm glad that it helped me grow. Now I'm basically a lone wolf and I have learned how to validate myself without needing external validation. I'd like to share some inspirational quotes: "You can't wait on other people To be what you've been called to be You can't wait on their affirmation You can't wait on their approval You can't wait on their support Sometimes you've just gotta run And look behind you and say, 'Everybody that wants to run, run But I can't stop running because you're not running with me' You can't stop chasing your dream Just because somebody in your life won't chase it with you You can't stop believing in yourself Just because somebody in your life won't believe in you You can't stop chasing the dreams of your life Just because when you know when you do it You're gonna have to do it all by yourself" -Opening speech in Ehrling's song "This Is My Passion" "Never play to the gallery. ... Never work for other people. Always remember that the reason that you initially started working was that there was something inside yourself that you've felt that if you could manifest it in some way you would understand more about yourself and how you coexist with the rest of society. I think it's terribly dangerous for an artist to fulfill other people's expectations. I think they generally produce their worst work when they do that." -David Bowie (ua-cam.com/video/cNbnef_eXBM/v-deo.html) "Never ask advice of someone with whom you wouldn’t want to trade places." -Ben Hardy
100% agreed on this, absolute facts. Having suffered through Anglophile mediocrity (another term for "Tall Poppy Syndrome" or "TPS") in New Zealand as well, I could reasonably conclude that TPS is responsible for low economic productivity/stagnant pay rates/rent-seeking property market and massive inequality in New Zealand. It is all tied to maintaining the status quo - a concept imported from the United Kingdom and celebrated by the outdated middle-class looking to ensure stability over progress.
Interesting insights there mate. I've travelled to UK and it certainly seems like the mothership for most of NZs weaker cultural tendencies like TPP and some others (e.g. supressing emotion; being dishonest to avoid rocking the boat; complaining about things without changing them etc)
i fled New Zealand in 1998 the only thing i could say was my whole life and everybody was so mean to me i wondered if any of it had changed but i heard it only got worse so many suicides. im actually amazed i got out of there alive... i never want to go back ... my brother passed away over there, he was in a death metal band he was pretty popular it was a good time for bands back then... not anymore.
TPS is exactly why I'm only now in my 30's really pushing my music out there. We grow up thinking we have to downplay our ability here, and I've definitely spent my life doing just that even to my own detriment. Its s real problem in this country 🤔
I'm in my thirties pushing my music too! I don't bother pushing it to Kiwis though. They couldn't care less about my style (folk metal). Americans, Scandinavians, Indians, and so on, they're always encouraging and receptive. Kiwis, even friends and workmates are like: "...meh, you're singing kinda sharp, anyway, Six-Sixty is better", or: "Why not play Ed Sheeran covers instead?"
New Zealand is changing thank God. I grew up there in the 70s 80s and 90s and God it was a dull depressing place. Having visited a few times recently I can see that maybe new Zealand will be a great example of how multi culturalism really works. What an improvement to a culture!
@@brojoDan Been here 16 years. I got really depressed and I think Tall Poppy Syndrome was part of it. Anyways, I shared this with an American group on facebook and they seem to really like it.
@@brojoDan Hi Dan, really great video. Realistically, how hard it would be for an immigrant to open and stay afloat with a small cafe/restaurant in, let's say Hawke's Bay? A place making something new to try as well... Would it be instantly boycotted by all the locals?
@@bztrd80 Actually you might find that being an immigrant gives you an advantage when it comes to setting up a food-related business, especially if you play up your heritage (e.g. bring your cultural food to NZ rather than trying to do NZ food). Tall poppy usually applies to people seen as "one of us" so if I were an immigrant I would play up my culture rather than tone it down. In the end, tall poppy or not, running a successful business is more about you than the locals. You need to be confident, persistent, resourceful, financially intelligent, and willing to do uncomfortable things to get your business out there. I've immigrated from NZ to Czech Republic, and I've noticed I get special treatment as a foreigner, and don't get as much shit as locals do, e.g. my wife gets a lot more pressure to be normal than I do.
@@brojoDan Hi Dan! Thank you so much for your kind message, i really, really appreciate it. Your last name sounds familiar, like the great Burt Munro (certainly not the typical normie from NZ). I know what you mean, and it totally makes sense as i observed the great success of Thai & all sorts of authentic asian cuisines (this actually surprises me a lot as the Kiwis are very open minded in terms of food... as opposed to for example italians or chinese who only stick to their own national cuisines). My "tall poppy" worry was actually referred to some business strategies which i would like to implement, like cheap delivery in order to work extra hours, i learned locals don't really cook much and love mostly hanging at home; so i wanna make it easy for them. So i thought some of my plans would get regarded as too much of aggressive?... My past 13 years i lived in Hong Kong and here we're used to work really hard and fast, previosly i lived 17 years in Italy which is even more laid back than NZ, but i was born and i grew up in USSR which is the hustlers motherland LOL Anyway, i got some other ideas too...cause i don't think it's possible to get a visa by opening a food business... nothing innovative for NZ with that.
I was taking about this at work the other day …dad has a ‘Knight Hood’ …myself serviced in NZ Army, then 82nd Airborne USA then the Légion étrangère …then ya just get cut down for who you are.!! There are the had beens then the want to be’s … The - had beens are those that had been someone in their lives … Want to be’s are those that want to be something in their lives …
Fresh newcomer to NZ here. I'm in substantial agreement with you, but I have one disagreement, and one addendum. Disagreement: It's not subtle at all. I happen to have lived in various major cities in my life, so within the first 5 minutes of meeting someone new in New Zealand I have learned to literally lie about my story (which they'd naturally ask me about on account of accent and complexion) not to instigate the tall poppy syndrome response, so "I was born in Germany, lived in Dusseldorf, Amsterdam, Dubai, and Los Angeles before moving to New Zealand" Quickly became "I was born in Germany" > "But you don't look German?!" > "Erm yeah I had a confused trajectory" with a self-deprecating tone and a nervous laugh to set them at ease. See the stunning thing about that is that I'm 40, so no leeway is given even to a foreigner whose age you'd imagine endows them with some off the beaten track experience to what kiwis are used to. I took on a security guard job in the beginning pending some paperwork certification coming from abroad. The company folded soon after. They sent us some third party therapist to talk to us 1 on 1. A nice older lady with a serene temperament and dulcet tones as you'd imagine. I happen to have a PhD in her field and have done clinical work. At some point during the interview (which is meant to soothe my fears of unemployment don't forget) she asks me what my educational/professional background is, and I tell her. Her face immediately contorts into a scowl, her eyes narrow, and she barks: "Well I'm only a lowly therapist!". I have dozens of other examples, but my point is: It's not subtle. It might be subtle to a kiwi who's grown up in the country and more or less unconsciously abides by the modus operandi enough as to not clash with it frequently, but for a foreigner it's as stark a cultural phenomenon as any you would see in a radically different culture. Addendum: Herd mentality cannot be discounted in human affairs no doubt, but in the case of New Zealand it seems to me like the groundwork for the tall poppy syndrome was laid by status anxiety stemming from the generalized Western belief that one is master of their own destiny (and hence what they achieve or don't is their own making/fault), exacerbated by a rural/urban friction in a primarily rural country, extrapolated to socially police all of society. In other words, when even the most debonair fedora-wearing Auckland downtown dweller is not half a generation away from the farm, the rural animosity towards more urban values such as appreciation of entrepreneurial spirit, recognition of talent, intellect and success ...etc becomes generalized across the entire country including cities, masquerading as faux humility or what have you, when it's really the tyranny of the mediocre for lack of a better term. There's a reason New Zealand is hamstrung by brain drain, with the reaction generally being 'Good riddance!'
Having played in a couple of folk metal bands, you are spot on about us Kiwis. I record my music by myself in my bedroom now, and let Americans and Europeans listen to it. They are far more receptive than Kiwis.
The internet has allowed us all to escape whatever cultural prisons we're in - more than half my coaching clients are from countries other than NZ. Not sure I could have built my business with kiwis alone - they're far more resistant to self-development than other countries (in my experience), and I think TPS is one of the main reasons.
Wow. I was excited about going over there. I'm tired of here in Houston texas people are like that to me. But you know what. I need to stand and no worrie about that.
Yeah, I didn't see this so much in the USA - maybe just in comparison to NZ, I felt supported and encouraged there, but you're right: I can't think of a developed country other than US that is this supportive
@@brojoDan in the US the taxation is at the same level as developing countries. Consequently the public services are really bad. But this makes Americans think with the growth mindset, where you can improve your situation just like in poorer countries, where if you fail to become a tall poppy, you perish. America has a lot of immigrants from poor countries who just wish to improve their life situation. So being desperate is not a bad thing there.
Totally, and yeah the immigration thing makes sense too. Can't be shy if you've moved over to US from a poor country - gotta go for it. In New Zealand, there are also a lot of immigrants. However, they a) get swallowed up in the prevailing culture, b) are less likely to come from impoverished countries, and c) NZ has more benefits for those struggling, so less incentive to make it on your own
I'm trying to understand this issue in NZ. Someone who is already successful or already awesome IS a tall poppy, no? so why are they not 'cut down' like the poppies trying to grow? I'm not sure it is really a tall poppy culture because it doesn't add up. It sounds like envy laced with insecurity towards others being vulnerable and putting themselves out there. ..because NZ has celebs, artists, politicians, etc. aka 'tall poppies'.. so how come they are idealized and praised when they are so much taller than others? they stand out, they've done something different to get their status, or even, wherein positions of privilege to begin with to get to where they were. Or maybe this more about having a group culture, like a lot of Asian countries, instead of an individualistic culture.
Yeah good clarification - it's about social proof. If someone is already socially approved of, they receive support. It's the up and comers who struggle. That being said, look what happens when the All Blacks occasionally lose a match. The public and media attack them savagely, demanding changes and dismissals. Poppies who are already tall must perform highly or they get the same treatment as newbies
I think it's easy to start blaming a certain culture , tall poppy syndrome or whatever for not being as successful or supported as we'd like rather than taking a deeper look at ourselves and what's really holding us back. Perhaps it's limiting beliefs, blind spots, lack of key skills, inexperience etc that's actually stopping us.
What stops us is almost always completely internal, I agree, however it's impossible to remain unaffected by our environment. Culture, country, family, friends, experiences - these powerful things constantly influence our brain and provoke mental pathways to be created without our conscious awareness. We are never immune to these things and must be aware of them to counter the influence they have
Yes, good point. We are all affected by our environment. The countries you mentioned though Australia and USA (apart from England) tend to be young societies, still yet to grow up, so naturally they are more focused on things like success, material pursuits, achievements and winning. I think New Zealand is perhaps slightly more mature in some ways that the focus is not solely on those things.
You are so full of yourself and your assertions are opposed by facts. For a start, as a result of Rogernomics and Ruthanasia, we New Zealanders have almost the highest rate of self-employment in the Western world: data.oecd.org/emp/self-employment-rate.htm . This is one thing I particularly like about our culture. I just can't stand boastful people and tall poppy syndrome goes a long way to making life in New Zealand bearable. People who complain about tall poppy syndrome basically do so because they want people to tickle their ears and tell them they are wonderful for whatever achievement it is they think people should celebrate them for, but are disappointed when others won't feed their egos. I remember a relative of mine on the Kiwi side of my family speaking regarding a family friend. She said what she liked about him was that in spite of making millions in the telecoms industry, he remained modest in his comportment and lifestyle. To me, this is the essence of what tall poppy syndrome is about: we don't hate people for doing well for themselves, we dislike them when they get above themselves and start acting like they have a right to be celebrated endlessly for their success in business or whatever.
@@brojoDan, read the last paragraph again. We don't hate people who do well for themselves. As I say, New Zealand has just about the highest rate of self-employment in the developed world. I have various acquaintances and relatives who have done very well for themselves in self-employment and sometimes don't need to work anyway more as a result. I am happy for all of them as none of them have become boastful as a result. Rather, we dislike it when people have a bit of economic success and then become full of themselves and start complaining about tall poppy syndrome when people won't feed their egos when they boast about their success.
@@brojoDan, plus, your response is extremely stereotypical for how boastful people respond when called out for their boastfulness. They typically say that we are holding them back, killing their dreams or whatever. As our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said in Luke 18:14, "for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted".
@Da Big G You make some interesting points. I do agree with you that boastful people do rub others the wrong way, perhaps more so in NZ than elsewhere. What our man here has succinctly touched on is the other side of the coin. That when you're not being boastful but still wanting to separate yourself from the NZ heard, you experience a 'you need more training' response from your friends and peers. Herein lies the toxicity of it. It's people masking their own insecurities and inadequacies and projecting that onto someone whose trying to be different. It's subtle but very very distinct in New Zealand society. One has to be on the receiving end of it to realise it I think. Also bare in mind that the devices you (Da big G) use on a daily basis were created by people in countries that were insanely wealthy and salesy too. Televisions, iPhones, cars, sneakers, sports equipment. You're coming at this from a myopic, christian viewpoint. Debate me.
@@mross2740, happy to debate you. If someone says "you need more training", tell them you are teachable and ask what training you need to make you a good bet in a senior role and what other things you can be doing to make hay while the sun shines: employers generally love proactive employees. Or, better still, research what training is out there and come to your line manager with a proposal for training he/she could send you on that will benefit the company (or maybe other things you could do for the company's benefit). I am not opposed to innovation, particularly technological innovation. The Scandinavian economies have a legislative environment designed to encourage disrupters to come along with new ideas and put companies with useless old ideas out of business, in spite of Jante's Law (the Scandinavian equivalent of Tall Poppy Syndrome). New Zealand also does, as a result of Rogernomics and Ruthanasia. As for masking insecurities and inadequacies, this is what red-pillers call SIGN language: shame, insults, guilt, the need to be right (a typical feminine method of presenting points). As Proverbs 16:18 says, "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (pride comes before a fall). People who are all like, "Oooooh, this Tall Poppy Syndrome are holding me back from being somebody special and noticed because they are insecure, jealous etc" is someone we New Zealanders would describe as being "above themselves" who needs to be cut down to size. Again, a fellow Kiwi known to me has more than enough money to live on through his corporate successes, but he is modest in his comportment and spending and doesn't desire to be thought of as special, hence why I and other family members view him favourably.
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Totally true. In my case, I wasn’t only a tall poppy, but also a poppy with different colour.
Unfortunately they couldn’t resist not sharpening their knives.
I’m a kiwi and I married an American woman. My eyes completely opened once I learnt from my wife what she saw about NZ culture. I have come to learn that this syndrome is very toxic and the culture here is actually very backwards. And I really had no idea until I met my wife. At first I argued with her as I didn’t see it so I disagreed and thought it was just her wrong opinion and not the truth. But slowly I learnt she was right and as I emerged out of my ignorance, I began to realise not only how right she was, but how terrible and fucked it is for our kiwi society as a whole. It’s not how people should be at all. My wife found tall poppy syndrome very weird and foreign to her. Now I see it I seriously cannot stand it and I put this syndrome in the same category as bullying. Except in my eyes I see it as worse because it’s herd mentality bullying so it’s become acceptable (but in reality it’s unacceptable) and it’s almost invisible if everyone is doing it. Nobody seems to think for themselves in NZ and I do see that as very uneducated and backwards, now that I see things clearly. I think NZ has a long way to go and I’m not sure how this culture is going to move forward. I actually want to get out of NZ and move to the U.S with my wife after learning about this syndrome. It’s actually really frustrating and almost morally wrong to live in a society that degrades or diminishes success. It’s a form of jealousy too and I hate that. I’d rather live in a world where people encourage and celebrate success. Doing the opposite is pretty fucked when you think about it. This topic has shook the core foundation of my own personality especially as I’m seeing it a lot from my own family, and it’s pushing me away from NZ. I have a lot to unlearn from NZ’s culture that is ingrained within me. I think it’s actually really bad and it needs to be stamped out before new kiwi generations enter adulthood. Education and awareness of toxic cultural behaviours is the first step to stamping this fucked up syndrome out! Great video btw brother 👍
Yeah it was americans who opened my eyes too - I used to think of them as braggarts, but now just realise they're shameless around success which is something that was completely foreign to me. All my USA friends are supportive and encouraging, whereas my Kiwi friends are a mixed bag - some even discouraging
Wow, just as well you have no toxic culture in the USA.
Amazing video Dan.
Yes, I felt the TPS in NZ whilst I lived there.... incredibly enough I come from a country where the TPS is also widely spread. As you mentioned, there are certain environments/cultures where it's harder to stand out, excel, etc... it's like people around you would prefer for you to be normal, average, mediocre, etc...
In my experience, after years of believing what the average people said, I realised it was nothing but envy and fear that they felt towards me being different, flamboyant, weird, introverted, talented, etc.
As you mentioned, here in Aussie the opposite is true: people want to stand out and they're not afraid of drawing attention or being different... they're supported for taking risks and talking about themselves without shame or guilt....
Brojo meetings and the larger community in Auckland provided me with a safe and non-judgemental environment to shatter any TPS effect that had burdened me in the past. I find the community of bros and coaches there to be very supportive of all the guys that want to change, take risks and better themselves. Well done.. and keep up the good work!
Australia definitely has the tall poppy syndrome, but it only manifests in insecure people. I experienced it first hand after moving from the US to Melbourne to do a PhD. I won't go into details, but it was absolutely toxic, and I suffered immensely as a result (I should have just stopped interacting with those people, but I didn't know any better at the time). However, I learned from that experience how to be strong, secure, and independent, so I'm glad that it helped me grow. Now I'm basically a lone wolf and I have learned how to validate myself without needing external validation. I'd like to share some inspirational quotes:
"You can't wait on other people
To be what you've been called to be
You can't wait on their affirmation
You can't wait on their approval
You can't wait on their support
Sometimes you've just gotta run
And look behind you and say, 'Everybody that wants to run, run
But I can't stop running because you're not running with me'
You can't stop chasing your dream
Just because somebody in your life won't chase it with you
You can't stop believing in yourself
Just because somebody in your life won't believe in you
You can't stop chasing the dreams of your life
Just because when you know when you do it
You're gonna have to do it all by yourself"
-Opening speech in Ehrling's song "This Is My Passion"
"Never play to the gallery. ... Never work for other people. Always remember that the reason that you initially started working was that there was something inside yourself that you've felt that if you could manifest it in some way you would understand more about yourself and how you coexist with the rest of society. I think it's terribly dangerous for an artist to fulfill other people's expectations. I think they generally produce their worst work when they do that."
-David Bowie (ua-cam.com/video/cNbnef_eXBM/v-deo.html)
"Never ask advice of someone with whom you wouldn’t want to trade places."
-Ben Hardy
100% agreed on this, absolute facts. Having suffered through Anglophile mediocrity (another term for "Tall Poppy Syndrome" or "TPS") in New Zealand as well, I could reasonably conclude that TPS is responsible for low economic productivity/stagnant pay rates/rent-seeking property market and massive inequality in New Zealand. It is all tied to maintaining the status quo - a concept imported from the United Kingdom and celebrated by the outdated middle-class looking to ensure stability over progress.
Interesting insights there mate. I've travelled to UK and it certainly seems like the mothership for most of NZs weaker cultural tendencies like TPP and some others (e.g. supressing emotion; being dishonest to avoid rocking the boat; complaining about things without changing them etc)
i fled New Zealand in 1998 the only thing i could say was my whole life and everybody was so mean to me i wondered if any of it had changed but i heard it only got worse so many suicides. im actually amazed i got out of there alive... i never want to go back ... my brother passed away over there, he was in a death metal band he was pretty popular it was a good time for bands back then... not anymore.
Sounds like you escaped in time. I did a video about mens suicide in NZ, check it out ua-cam.com/video/s_SuOcstzF0/v-deo.html
TPS is exactly why I'm only now in my 30's really pushing my music out there. We grow up thinking we have to downplay our ability here, and I've definitely spent my life doing just that even to my own detriment. Its s real problem in this country 🤔
Putting your music out there is the solution to TPS. The more we rolemodel shamelessness around our art, the less this TPS will happen
I'm in my thirties pushing my music too! I don't bother pushing it to Kiwis though. They couldn't care less about my style (folk metal). Americans, Scandinavians, Indians, and so on, they're always encouraging and receptive. Kiwis, even friends and workmates are like: "...meh, you're singing kinda sharp, anyway, Six-Sixty is better", or: "Why not play Ed Sheeran covers instead?"
New Zealand is changing thank God. I grew up there in the 70s 80s and 90s and God it was a dull depressing place. Having visited a few times recently I can see that maybe new Zealand will be a great example of how multi culturalism really works. What an improvement to a culture!
This is good news. Im a future immigrant and a little afraid to open my business in a medium size town... because of this.
I would be happy for us to stay (relatively) homogenous, dull and depressing!
Bless you man for this:) I am an American living in New Zealand.
Must be quite a culture shock! I've been all over USA and couldn't believe how different it was from NZ culturally
@@brojoDan Been here 16 years. I got really depressed and I think Tall Poppy Syndrome was part of it. Anyways, I shared this with an American group on facebook and they seem to really like it.
@@brojoDan Hi Dan, really great video. Realistically, how hard it would be for an immigrant to open and stay afloat with a small cafe/restaurant in, let's say Hawke's Bay? A place making something new to try as well... Would it be instantly boycotted by all the locals?
@@bztrd80 Actually you might find that being an immigrant gives you an advantage when it comes to setting up a food-related business, especially if you play up your heritage (e.g. bring your cultural food to NZ rather than trying to do NZ food). Tall poppy usually applies to people seen as "one of us" so if I were an immigrant I would play up my culture rather than tone it down.
In the end, tall poppy or not, running a successful business is more about you than the locals. You need to be confident, persistent, resourceful, financially intelligent, and willing to do uncomfortable things to get your business out there.
I've immigrated from NZ to Czech Republic, and I've noticed I get special treatment as a foreigner, and don't get as much shit as locals do, e.g. my wife gets a lot more pressure to be normal than I do.
@@brojoDan Hi Dan! Thank you so much for your kind message, i really, really appreciate it.
Your last name sounds familiar, like the great Burt Munro (certainly not the typical normie from NZ).
I know what you mean, and it totally makes sense as i observed the great success of Thai & all sorts of authentic asian cuisines (this actually surprises me a lot as the Kiwis are very open minded in terms of food... as opposed to for example italians or chinese who only stick to their own national cuisines).
My "tall poppy" worry was actually referred to some business strategies which i would like to implement, like cheap delivery in order to work extra hours, i learned locals don't really cook much and love mostly hanging at home; so i wanna make it easy for them. So i thought some of my plans would get regarded as too much of aggressive?...
My past 13 years i lived in Hong Kong and here we're used to work really hard and fast, previosly i lived 17 years in Italy which is even more laid back than NZ, but i was born and i grew up in USSR which is the hustlers motherland LOL
Anyway, i got some other ideas too...cause i don't think it's possible to get a visa by opening a food business... nothing innovative for NZ with that.
I was taking about this at work the other day …dad has a ‘Knight Hood’ …myself serviced in NZ Army, then 82nd Airborne USA then the Légion étrangère …then ya just get cut down for who you are.!!
There are the had beens then the want to be’s …
The - had beens are those that had been someone in their lives …
Want to be’s are those that want to be something in their lives …
Ive been feeling crazy thinking like this but it is what it is. This is RAMPANT in NZ. Since childhood it’s learnt behaviour.
Yeah mate, I had to make this video so people didn't think they were crazy for feeling that something was wrong
Fresh newcomer to NZ here. I'm in substantial agreement with you, but I have one disagreement, and one addendum. Disagreement: It's not subtle at all. I happen to have lived in various major cities in my life, so within the first 5 minutes of meeting someone new in New Zealand I have learned to literally lie about my story (which they'd naturally ask me about on account of accent and complexion) not to instigate the tall poppy syndrome response, so "I was born in Germany, lived in Dusseldorf, Amsterdam, Dubai, and Los Angeles before moving to New Zealand" Quickly became "I was born in Germany" > "But you don't look German?!" > "Erm yeah I had a confused trajectory" with a self-deprecating tone and a nervous laugh to set them at ease.
See the stunning thing about that is that I'm 40, so no leeway is given even to a foreigner whose age you'd imagine endows them with some off the beaten track experience to what kiwis are used to. I took on a security guard job in the beginning pending some paperwork certification coming from abroad. The company folded soon after. They sent us some third party therapist to talk to us 1 on 1. A nice older lady with a serene temperament and dulcet tones as you'd imagine. I happen to have a PhD in her field and have done clinical work. At some point during the interview (which is meant to soothe my fears of unemployment don't forget) she asks me what my educational/professional background is, and I tell her. Her face immediately contorts into a scowl, her eyes narrow, and she barks: "Well I'm only a lowly therapist!". I have dozens of other examples, but my point is: It's not subtle. It might be subtle to a kiwi who's grown up in the country and more or less unconsciously abides by the modus operandi enough as to not clash with it frequently, but for a foreigner it's as stark a cultural phenomenon as any you would see in a radically different culture.
Addendum: Herd mentality cannot be discounted in human affairs no doubt, but in the case of New Zealand it seems to me like the groundwork for the tall poppy syndrome was laid by status anxiety stemming from the generalized Western belief that one is master of their own destiny (and hence what they achieve or don't is their own making/fault), exacerbated by a rural/urban friction in a primarily rural country, extrapolated to socially police all of society. In other words, when even the most debonair fedora-wearing Auckland downtown dweller is not half a generation away from the farm, the rural animosity towards more urban values such as appreciation of entrepreneurial spirit, recognition of talent, intellect and success ...etc becomes generalized across the entire country including cities, masquerading as faux humility or what have you, when it's really the tyranny of the mediocre for lack of a better term. There's a reason New Zealand is hamstrung by brain drain, with the reaction generally being 'Good riddance!'
Having played in a couple of folk metal bands, you are spot on about us Kiwis. I record my music by myself in my bedroom now, and let Americans and Europeans listen to it. They are far more receptive than Kiwis.
The internet has allowed us all to escape whatever cultural prisons we're in - more than half my coaching clients are from countries other than NZ. Not sure I could have built my business with kiwis alone - they're far more resistant to self-development than other countries (in my experience), and I think TPS is one of the main reasons.
Jealousy is the currency of an unintelligent mind. Primal bullying once made sense when it helped newcomers adapt to a new environment.
Thank you bro jo
I think you're wrong about Australia. Australia has a pretty strong culture of tall poppy syndrome. It manifests in different ways though.
Simon Jerrems agreed.
Yeh they have it too. But I think we're worse.
Jealousy is the currency of an unintelligent mind. Primal bullying once made sense when it helped newcomers adapt to a new environment.
Australians are super jealous and evil.
I’m just happy someone’s talking about new zealand
Wow. I was excited about going over there. I'm tired of here in Houston texas people are like that to me.
But you know what. I need to stand and no worrie about that.
Yeah you can't run away from human stupidity, just have to learn to deal with it and overcome it!
It is a New Zealand thing but its roots are in working class England they have sayings such as typical, or its allright for some.
Yeah good point, I've seen it there too
Come to Perth. We love music 💕
This is very very relevant
Hard out i see it every day, from hamilton NZ
Amazing that it happens even in the smaller cities where people need community support more than ever
Tall Poppy Syndrome doesn’t exist in the U.S. but it’s strong in Australia… Probably just as strong as it is in New Zealand!
Yeah I keep hearing that, similar cultures I guess - I originally thought it was more supportive there
Aussie here - second this
Replace NZ with any developed country other than the US, and this is still applicable. I believe it has something to do with heavy taxation.
Yeah, I didn't see this so much in the USA - maybe just in comparison to NZ, I felt supported and encouraged there, but you're right: I can't think of a developed country other than US that is this supportive
@@brojoDan in the US the taxation is at the same level as developing countries. Consequently the public services are really bad. But this makes Americans think with the growth mindset, where you can improve your situation just like in poorer countries, where if you fail to become a tall poppy, you perish. America has a lot of immigrants from poor countries who just wish to improve their life situation. So being desperate is not a bad thing there.
Totally, and yeah the immigration thing makes sense too. Can't be shy if you've moved over to US from a poor country - gotta go for it.
In New Zealand, there are also a lot of immigrants. However, they a) get swallowed up in the prevailing culture, b) are less likely to come from impoverished countries, and c) NZ has more benefits for those struggling, so less incentive to make it on your own
I'm trying to understand this issue in NZ. Someone who is already successful or already awesome IS a tall poppy, no? so why are they not 'cut down' like the poppies trying to grow? I'm not sure it is really a tall poppy culture because it doesn't add up. It sounds like envy laced with insecurity towards others being vulnerable and putting themselves out there. ..because NZ has celebs, artists, politicians, etc. aka 'tall poppies'.. so how come they are idealized and praised when they are so much taller than others? they stand out, they've done something different to get their status, or even, wherein positions of privilege to begin with to get to where they were. Or maybe this more about having a group culture, like a lot of Asian countries, instead of an individualistic culture.
Yeah good clarification - it's about social proof. If someone is already socially approved of, they receive support. It's the up and comers who struggle.
That being said, look what happens when the All Blacks occasionally lose a match. The public and media attack them savagely, demanding changes and dismissals. Poppies who are already tall must perform highly or they get the same treatment as newbies
choice bro
Thanks mate
I think it's easy to start blaming a certain culture , tall poppy syndrome or whatever for not being as successful or supported as we'd like rather than taking a deeper look at ourselves and what's really holding us back. Perhaps it's limiting beliefs, blind spots, lack of key skills, inexperience etc that's actually stopping us.
What stops us is almost always completely internal, I agree, however it's impossible to remain unaffected by our environment. Culture, country, family, friends, experiences - these powerful things constantly influence our brain and provoke mental pathways to be created without our conscious awareness. We are never immune to these things and must be aware of them to counter the influence they have
Yes, good point. We are all affected by our environment. The countries you mentioned though Australia and USA (apart from England) tend to be young societies, still yet to grow up, so naturally they are more focused on things like success, material pursuits, achievements and winning. I think New Zealand is perhaps slightly more mature in some ways that the focus is not solely on those things.
You are so full of yourself and your assertions are opposed by facts.
For a start, as a result of Rogernomics and Ruthanasia, we New Zealanders have almost the highest rate of self-employment in the Western world: data.oecd.org/emp/self-employment-rate.htm .
This is one thing I particularly like about our culture. I just can't stand boastful people and tall poppy syndrome goes a long way to making life in New Zealand bearable. People who complain about tall poppy syndrome basically do so because they want people to tickle their ears and tell them they are wonderful for whatever achievement it is they think people should celebrate them for, but are disappointed when others won't feed their egos.
I remember a relative of mine on the Kiwi side of my family speaking regarding a family friend. She said what she liked about him was that in spite of making millions in the telecoms industry, he remained modest in his comportment and lifestyle. To me, this is the essence of what tall poppy syndrome is about: we don't hate people for doing well for themselves, we dislike them when they get above themselves and start acting like they have a right to be celebrated endlessly for their success in business or whatever.
"You are so full of yourself"... ironically, you are representing what I'm talking about perfectly. Way to try keep me down. You are the problem.
@@brojoDan, read the last paragraph again. We don't hate people who do well for themselves. As I say, New Zealand has just about the highest rate of self-employment in the developed world. I have various acquaintances and relatives who have done very well for themselves in self-employment and sometimes don't need to work anyway more as a result. I am happy for all of them as none of them have become boastful as a result.
Rather, we dislike it when people have a bit of economic success and then become full of themselves and start complaining about tall poppy syndrome when people won't feed their egos when they boast about their success.
@@brojoDan, plus, your response is extremely stereotypical for how boastful people respond when called out for their boastfulness. They typically say that we are holding them back, killing their dreams or whatever.
As our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said in Luke 18:14, "for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted".
@Da Big G You make some interesting points. I do agree with you that boastful people do rub others the wrong way, perhaps more so in NZ than elsewhere. What our man here has succinctly touched on is the other side of the coin. That when you're not being boastful but still wanting to separate yourself from the NZ heard, you experience a 'you need more training' response from your friends and peers. Herein lies the toxicity of it. It's people masking their own insecurities and inadequacies and projecting that onto someone whose trying to be different. It's subtle but very very distinct in New Zealand society. One has to be on the receiving end of it to realise it I think. Also bare in mind that the devices you (Da big G) use on a daily basis were created by people in countries that were insanely wealthy and salesy too. Televisions, iPhones, cars, sneakers, sports equipment. You're coming at this from a myopic, christian viewpoint. Debate me.
@@mross2740, happy to debate you.
If someone says "you need more training", tell them you are teachable and ask what training you need to make you a good bet in a senior role and what other things you can be doing to make hay while the sun shines: employers generally love proactive employees. Or, better still, research what training is out there and come to your line manager with a proposal for training he/she could send you on that will benefit the company (or maybe other things you could do for the company's benefit).
I am not opposed to innovation, particularly technological innovation. The Scandinavian economies have a legislative environment designed to encourage disrupters to come along with new ideas and put companies with useless old ideas out of business, in spite of Jante's Law (the Scandinavian equivalent of Tall Poppy Syndrome). New Zealand also does, as a result of Rogernomics and Ruthanasia.
As for masking insecurities and inadequacies, this is what red-pillers call SIGN language: shame, insults, guilt, the need to be right (a typical feminine method of presenting points).
As Proverbs 16:18 says, "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (pride comes before a fall). People who are all like, "Oooooh, this Tall Poppy Syndrome are holding me back from being somebody special and noticed because they are insecure, jealous etc" is someone we New Zealanders would describe as being "above themselves" who needs to be cut down to size.
Again, a fellow Kiwi known to me has more than enough money to live on through his corporate successes, but he is modest in his comportment and spending and doesn't desire to be thought of as special, hence why I and other family members view him favourably.