Common questions: 1) Why didn't you run a neutral? This would require well over $100 worth of copper and a lot of work to replace cable in finished stud walls. 2) Why did you wire four outlets? There will eventually be three power feeds plus the DRO. 3) Shouldn't the white wire on the 240V input be black? Yes. It's common to color it black with a marker. I need to go back and do this.
I assume question 1 was the response to adding a neutral as apposed to building the neutral in on the original install? Question 2. Can't have too many outlets.
For some reason this brought back memories of when I worked on drilling rigs. I still touch stuff with the back of my hand when I'm uncertain about the electrical situation of something. When I'm not confident in what I've wired up, it's still my habit to start with back of hand before grabbing it, just to stack the deck in my favor. :)
"Of course not, that's silly... I did the project just to justify buying the Crimper"! Hahah!!! How many times have I done that too... I love your style James... Oh - & your content :) On a serious note, watching you & a few other workshop guys in the US, makes me sooo grateful for our power standards here in Australia. We have 240V single phase or 415V 3 phase (yes some other occasional setups which are different, but generally speaking). So you basically have 2 choices Single or 3 Phase. It's so much simpler.
James, I'm a controls engineer by trade and I'm impressed. This is just how we create control power in our three-phase motor panels. Sometimes I need a lot of 120V and spec out a larger external mount transformer, but when I need to add a convenience outlet for a programming laptop outlet, this is exactly what we use. Automation Direct is a great source for things of this nature.
“I’m not an electrician/expert” you crack me up. You’ve forgotten more things than I ever hope to know. You are one of the most analytical and detailed people I have ever encountered. Elon Musk should be afraid of you.
Aside from the excellent content of your videos, it has been impressive to see how much more skilled at editing and comfortable in front of the camera you've become. Many channels have trouble finding the balance between detail and respecting the viewer's time, and your effort really shows.
All the holes in my wall will attest to my default of running new wires. This takes a brain like yours to figure out and will probably be very useful knowledge for later.
Hi James, really appreciate your projects, planning, execution, reflections and the extended effort to document for us all. Thank you for creating and maintaining the blog summary as first post. Bringing the gems to the top. Your viewers make some great contributions and normally we all have to mine for them or mostly, give up. and lose the opportunity of extended valuable input. Regards, Brett
Great video. Thank you. This afternoon I'm going to go and check what I did with the neutral when wiring my 440v 3ph lathe. I was so excited about the lathe I don't quite remember the wiring. 😀
James, Good job done your way I am not going to comment on the how because you did what is rite for your shop. I would do what I see as rite for my shop. Everyone else will try to blow smoke where they don't really know.
As always you explained it calmly and thoroughly and yet I was feeling entertained, not lectured. Congratulations to finishing the project ;) Self tappers protruding into a box of electricity would not be my ideal scenario, but since it is your home shop, all good!
Ha, I'm doing the same thing! And I also don't have a neutral, as I have 120 volt outlets near, but I want a single switch for the mill, DRO, and power feeds.
It's okay to remind us, to start doing those things we intended to do at some point. But good to see, that even someone as organized as you does procrastinate a little sometimes.
Hi Clough I’m always looking forward to watch your videos. You usually have good explanation and reasoning for the decisions you make during the project. This time you skipped the part why you decided to connect the one secondary to the ground. The transformer you installed works also like safety transformer, until you ground one terminal. The grounding doesn’t increase safety - it decreases. That’s why in difficult situations you use safety transformer. If one secondary wire will short to metal part of the machine you will have the same case as you deliberately did. You are quite smart and I expected that it is some reason you did this. Thanks
Watch the video again. I explained it in detail. It's required by code because without bonding the neutral, there is no way for a fault current to re-enter the circuit to blow the fuse.
Really like your transformer controller build. I also have a PM-935. Your build of materials list didn't include info on the fuses; part no, where purchased. Please, would you share those details?
Great video, You might want to protect your box there on the floor. The shop that I work in had the same set up . The problem is metal chips down on the floor. You can imagine what happen. Drilling chips make a interesting moment.
Great post James (as usual). As the unit is shoved under the mill on a bare cement floor I suggest you put some rubber feet on it to prevent rust or a short if the floor gets overly wet. I had a brief fantasy of you cutting a big hole in the side of the mill casting to mount the box in, but that would be way too much work.
There is such a hole and panel already, but that's where the flood coolant sump is located, and I may use that some day, so the humidity in there will be around 100%.
I am so glad that in our neck of the woods, South Africa, we only use 220v. No need to wire for both systems. But all in all, once again a nice informative video.
Great video I didn’t know you could do this. I need to do this to my cnc conversion that currently uses a 240v plug for the spindle and a 120v plug for the control/steppers
15:03 "The funniest part is, you can't tell if that's a joke." Au contraire! I'm not falling for this trick. You gave us the answer a couple weekends ago. To quote "The other reason I wanted it is because it's a tool and I want to own them all" You are the man I perspire to be! 😁
40 years ago when my shop was built as an extension on the rear of my home I ran the 240V mains in conduit and left a pull cord in the conduit. All additions I've made since then I always made sure I left behind spare pull cord. It sure beats having to dig out my wire snake when additions were made. On that note I can't imagine doing the original pull and deciding to save a buck by eliminating the 120V neutral. Not in this life! Wakodahatchee Chris (WA2ERQ)
Nice vid. Just a suggestion-- it's bad practice to shoot a tech screw into a box. Having the sharp edge can cut your hands and your conductors. Use the appropriate length screw and put a nut on the inside (even having threads exposed is considered bad practice, over the years the exposed threads can wear through insulation, especially if the conductors move ( a flex run into a motor, etc.)
nice work, a further safety step is that you can put the box on some feet (plastic or rubber) for elevation just in case of a liquid spillage on the floor (for whatever reason) especially that it is there on the ground with no direct line of vision. wish u all the best
James, I liked the setup with the transformer and the outlets. My concern would be: what happens if you have to emergency stop the mill? The table will continue to move. When I did this for my mill, I pulled the 240v power after the contractor in the mill control panel, so the table would stop moving if I estopped the mill. I also understand there may be warranty implications, but I also worry about safety. Just a thought....
Very interesting video. I have seen dozens of 120/24V control transformer systems with the neutral of the 24V secondary bonded. I have not to my knowledge worked on a 240/120 control transformer with the secondary bonded as shown in this video, but it should be the same in principal. Will have to dig a bit deeper next time I see it (same should apply for three phase equipment with control xfrmers).
20:00 did i get this right? there is no mechanical difference in the 120 and 240 Volt outlets as mechanical coding so you can accidently plug in to the wrong outlet?
No. The 120V outlets are NEMA 5-20 and have a vertical hot blade. The 240V outlets are NEMA 6-20 and have a horizontal hot blade. They aren't physically compatible.
Question, I have a 5KW 230v inverter charge controller 48v , what’s you’re thought’s me using a 100A MTO Transformer 220-440 inlet & 110-120 output for a house inverter for emergency use only my battery banks are lithium phosphate 3.2v 280Ah feeding the inverter ?
James, I am happy to see you using ferrules. IMHO one fuse on each side is enough. All fuses I saw datasheets of allow 40% over current for 30 minutes. In your case 2A fuse will conduct 2.8A without problems. This means in case of short on the secondary side, the transformer will probably never go up to this value and the fuse never blows. Anyways, nice clean job!
Since both 240V input wires are live with respect to ground, two fuses are required. A short to ground in the coil, for instance, requires protection on both hot legs.
What is the spec for the fuses you used on this project. FYI hubby installed it for our setup in Kenya so am able to use 110 tools like sanders, jigsaw etc. what I haven’t been able to use is my compound sliding saw or table saw. We have a Bussmann Fuse Current Limiting, Dual Element Time Delay, Midget Cartridge, Time Delay 2 Amp 250 V 13 and a 15 Amp but neither works for the saw. Is this the wrong fuse?
Perfect spot to pick up some chips off the floor in the receptacles..... I'd look at one of the exterior outlet cover solutions you can pass cords through just to pop on the box to keep things out of the plugs :P
I had a similar problem in my shop, but I opted to buy a $27 voltage converter which came in a metal case with plugs, a switch, indicators and a fuse ready to go.
hi, just to ad that kind of transformers is use to, in electronics bench, as a isolation transformer (1:1), we do not connect ground, it must remain in a separate plain, very Andy in to connect oscilloscope to boards, no ground loop. :) cheers.
I was in a situation where our control transformer was not giving us the correct output so what we did was connect out x2 to the panel neutral and then we bonded it to ground
I suppose that you chose the 20 amp rated outlets because they had the connection type that you wanted. Otherwise, it's certainly overkill as 15 amp outlets would have served perfectly well.
Im going to build a mill and I'm converting a radial arm saw the motor is no good it only runs at 5000 rpm so I need to replace with a motor that I can control the rpm but I'm not shut what type I need either a stepper or what? could you give me some help with that and where I might be able to get it from?
So what kind of power consumption does a transformation like this use when idle? I assume it will be lower without a load on it and increase as the load increases. But there will always be energy or current flowing on the primary side by the nature of how it work. Ot was thus explained in the video and I misses it somewhere?
In _theory_ an idle transformer that is correctly rated draws no power of it's own. In actuality it generates some small amount of heat and sound energy, so is consuming power. I'd guess that a transformer this size is probably using less than 5 watts, probably 2 watts or less.
I admire your standards of workmanship, James. BTW, I have a similar drive motor that has the annoying property of traveling at different speeds, with the same setting, depending on direction. I’d sure like to improve that. (I think Quinn mentioned it in a past video) Have you seen this?
Hi James, I have 2 small issues, I know how much you love criticism…lol . I usually when grounding the neutral on the transformer use the green wire from the neutral term to the ground so just looking at the transformer it’s obvious that the neutral is grounded instead of having to see where the second white wire is going. I realize in your panel it’s easy to see but in more complicated panels it’s not as easy. Also with only a 250 va having 4 outlets might be tempting to overload it and blow the fuse.
Yeah, I think using a green wire here would be clearer. I was thinking about panels I've seen where white and bare wires go to a common bus bar. I plan to eventually use all four outlets.
Howdy from Texas James, my question has nothing to do with the electrical but the square tubes under your mill. Did you find the table height just a bit to low so hence the additional height? If so what was the increase in height. Looks like 4" or so. Thanks
I really only have one issue with the way you had done this. You left the possibility of plugging in other devices at the same time as the power feed motor. I personally would have used what is called a simplex receptacle connected to the small transformer so only one thing can plug into it. This way you do not possibly overload the transformer and have to replace fuses. What you did is fine and obviously works, it is just that this is on the internet and I have to point out that I would have done it differently. You did do a fine job, as usual, to keep the installation nice and clean.
Thumbs up. I'm wondering if it could go easier if you had mounted the transformer on the "lid" panel, wired it up and then covered the works with the box 🤔
Dear jsmes I've been ordered ELS through ebay.... Like to know how to set with my own Lathe Machine... Can you please help me out to install the software....?
They add 4", putting it at about the right height for me to use comfortably. It's just two pieces of 4x6x3/8"-wall rectangular tube with holes drilled in it to anxhor the mill and to mount the feet.
Great job (as always), very neat and professional looking. Silly question... was there not a 240v powerfeed model available? Or would that have been more hassel than it's worth?
I’m no electrician by any means I know jack about it but am I nuts to think that now that box is live to ground when you run anything 110 from that outlet?
I guess this is a stupid question, but why not just plug in an extension cord to a 110v outlet, and run your 110v accessories off that? The only reason I can imagine is wanting the 110v circuit to be coupled to the 240v circuit so the 110v drops if you lose 240v, but wouldn’t a magnetic relay take care of that?
It's been a while since I've done any transformer supplies but since transformers are primarily inductive devices they wont have in-rush current. it's typically the load on the output that cause the in-rush current. There maybe a very small amount of current from capacitive coupling but I'd expect it to be very,, very low.
The Internet disagrees. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current "When a transformer is first energized, a transient current up to 10 to 15 times larger than the rated transformer current can flow for several cycles. Toroidal transformers, using less copper for the same power handling, can have up to 60 times inrush to running current."
I've always been very suspicious of those. They come with copious warnings to only use them with hair dryers and not anything electronic. I assume (but don't know for sure) that they're doing something unsavory, like using a diode to cut the total power (but not the voltage).
Big fan of your channel. The input wiring to your control power transformer primary are both ungrounded conductors so you should avoid using a white insulated conductor because this is always assigned to grounded conductors (neutral) in North America. I dont exactly know what is powering this box but since you have explained that both transformer primary conductors are being fused, I can infer that they are assumed to be ungrounded. I would recommend just adding some red electrical tape or heatshrink at all termination points for that white insulator (on the primary circuit) to denote that this is indeed an ungrounded conductor (L1 - black, L2 - red).
@@Clough42 Not black - incorrect; white should be marked red in this instance. The NEC requires the white (neutral) wire to be marked (tape, heat shrink, whatever) on both ends and at any junctions with usually red, but never black because there already is a black wire for the other 120V phase). Black would indicate both were the same phase at the same potential. If you check the NFPA 70 Handbook you will see you have created what is known as a "separately derived system" for the 120V feed.
@@jpcallan97225 I think that's true for 3-phase, but for single phase 220V, coloring the white wire black is common practice. I have several circuits like this in my house installed and inspected during construction.
@@Clough42 Thank you for the reply. That would be true if the other wire in a 240V single phase trio were red, white and green/bare, but as an example 12-2 NM-B (Romex) is almost always black, white and bare, while 12-3 NM-B is black, red, white and bare, but never two blacks, white and bare. What you are seeing in your home wiring is a switched lighting circuit where white is used as a "traveler" instead of a neutral. The whole idea is preventing an unintended 240V short. The color code is key to avoiding an unintended phase-to-phase interconnect. I'm retired now, but I did electrical designs for small to medium sized data centers with three phase UPS systems and diesel generators as part of my IBM mainframe consulting practice. I have a 60 KW Cummins model DGCB genset and automatic transfer switch at my house. I'm fairly familiar with things electrical. I'd like to speak with you on the phone about your video on the phase converter if that would be possible. I do enjoy your videos and learn a lot from them.
I don't know how much digging around you had to do to source all the parts, but boxes, control transformers, and at least some of the wiring bits are easily available form Automation Direct, and they often have 2 day shipping. The prices are reasonable too, and you know you are getting genuine stuff. I'm a little concerned about plugs on the floor. In my experience that is where they get wet, oily, and full of chips swept up or blown around on the floor.
Good tip. I just re-checked the circuit diagram, and I don't think this one has a multi-tap transformer in it. In fact, the manual actually calls for an external control transformer for operating on high-voltage mills.
Can anyone explain this electrical code? On the mill side he had two hot wires and a ground. Between any of the two hot wires and ground he has 120 volts but he is not allowed to use this, why?
@@Clough42 why connect neutral to ground? Isn't that why you use a transformer. The way it's wired now is the same as one leg to hot, neutral to ground.
Great video . Did your power supply wire have a neutral and ground from your building ? If so don’t you just have to bond/ground the transformer base only because it’s tied to the neutral back at the panel ?
I am not sure that I have ever run a neutral for 240 split phase that I did not eventually use. Watching you use that crimper raised the hair on the back of my neck. It looks like it would crimp a finger just fine. Despite being disallowed in many applications, I would tin the stranded wire. For permanent installations, I sometimes use a soldered wire-nut connection.
Definitely don't tin the wire before crimping. The crimp terminal is designed to compress and retain stranded wire. If you tin first, the solder will slowly flow over time and the crimp will become loose. When this happens, the joint will heat, softening the solder further, until it fails catastrophically. I've had it happen on a 3D printer. The other problem is that soldered connections do not handle vibration well. The solder ends at some point in the wire, and all of the stress gets concentrated there. Over time, the wires crack and break. This is why you don't see solder terminals in automotive applications.
@@Clough42 , True, but the question remains, did you ask a certified electrician? Not a suggestion that anything was wrong, or needed NEC certification.
@@BruceNitroxpro So Bruce, only "qualified experts" can do things right. The rest of us are just ignorant fools, that don't recognize the need/brilliance of "qualified experts". I bet you like Anthony Fauci.
For me, that would not be a joke. It would be funny because it's true. And also because it's an conscious choice, not an impulse. Nowadays, at least. Or so I tell myself...
Common questions:
1) Why didn't you run a neutral? This would require well over $100 worth of copper and a lot of work to replace cable in finished stud walls.
2) Why did you wire four outlets? There will eventually be three power feeds plus the DRO.
3) Shouldn't the white wire on the 240V input be black? Yes. It's common to color it black with a marker. I need to go back and do this.
I assume question 1 was the response to adding a neutral as apposed to building the neutral in on the original install? Question 2. Can't have too many outlets.
@@maxheadflow ahh... Yes. Including it 20 years ago would have been great. Copper was way cheaper then, too.
3. Electricity is color blind don’t worry about colors
James, why not mount the box to the side of the mill?
At some point in the future I'd forget and plug a shop vac in there and ruin my day. Resettable circuit breaker on the output?
For some reason this brought back memories of when I worked on drilling rigs. I still touch stuff with the back of my hand when I'm uncertain about the electrical situation of something. When I'm not confident in what I've wired up, it's still my habit to start with back of hand before grabbing it, just to stack the deck in my favor. :)
"Of course not, that's silly... I did the project just to justify buying the Crimper"! Hahah!!! How many times have I done that too... I love your style James... Oh - & your content :)
On a serious note, watching you & a few other workshop guys in the US, makes me sooo grateful for our power standards here in Australia. We have 240V single phase or 415V 3 phase (yes some other occasional setups which are different, but generally speaking).
So you basically have 2 choices Single or 3 Phase. It's so much simpler.
James, I'm a controls engineer by trade and I'm impressed. This is just how we create control power in our three-phase motor panels. Sometimes I need a lot of 120V and spec out a larger external mount transformer, but when I need to add a convenience outlet for a programming laptop outlet, this is exactly what we use.
Automation Direct is a great source for things of this nature.
Thanks! I order from Automation Direct a couple of times a month. :)
“I’m not an electrician/expert” you crack me up. You’ve forgotten more things than I ever hope to know. You are one of the most analytical and detailed people I have ever encountered. Elon Musk should be afraid of you.
You never cease to amaze me with some specialty tool that you pull out- i.e. wire crimper
I bought it for another project that will require a couple hundred crimps.
Aside from the excellent content of your videos, it has been impressive to see how much more skilled at editing and comfortable in front of the camera you've become. Many channels have trouble finding the balance between detail and respecting the viewer's time, and your effort really shows.
This is a great little project that shows the "right way" of handling this simple job. Well done, as usual.
All the holes in my wall will attest to my default of running new wires. This takes a brain like yours to figure out and will probably be very useful knowledge for later.
Hi James,
really appreciate your projects, planning, execution, reflections and the extended effort to document for us all.
Thank you for creating and maintaining the blog summary as first post. Bringing the gems to the top.
Your viewers make some great contributions and normally we all have to mine for them or mostly, give up. and lose the opportunity of extended valuable input.
Regards,
Brett
Great video. Thank you. This afternoon I'm going to go and check what I did with the neutral when wiring my 440v 3ph lathe. I was so excited about the lathe I don't quite remember the wiring. 😀
Great work James! Love it when you introduce another new tool - an automated crimper.
Well done as usual enjoyed the video. Sitting up there in the cold dry north corrosion free while all of us in the humid south rust.
Yeah. It's a burden, to be sure.
James, Good job done your way I am not going to comment on the how because you did what is rite for your shop. I would do what I see as rite for my shop. Everyone else will try to blow smoke where they don't really know.
As always you explained it calmly and thoroughly and yet I was feeling entertained, not lectured. Congratulations to finishing the project ;)
Self tappers protruding into a box of electricity would not be my ideal scenario, but since it is your home shop, all good!
As an electrician great job. Good demo and lessons. Also great execution
Always enjoy your work, This Old James.
A MILLION THANKS!!! 🙏 OH MAN, SERIOUSLY, THANK YOU!! GOD BLESS YOU & ALL!
Nice job again James !!! Neat, concise, and no nonsense.
Ha, I'm doing the same thing! And I also don't have a neutral, as I have 120 volt outlets near, but I want a single switch for the mill, DRO, and power feeds.
It's okay to remind us, to start doing those things we intended to do at some point. But good to see, that even someone as organized as you does procrastinate a little sometimes.
A little?
Hi Clough
I’m always looking forward to watch your videos. You usually have good explanation and reasoning for the decisions you make during the project. This time you skipped the part why you decided to connect the one secondary to the ground. The transformer you installed works also like safety transformer, until you ground one terminal. The grounding doesn’t increase safety - it decreases. That’s why in difficult situations you use safety transformer. If one secondary wire will short to metal part of the machine you will have the same case as you deliberately did. You are quite smart and I expected that it is some reason you did this. Thanks
Watch the video again. I explained it in detail. It's required by code because without bonding the neutral, there is no way for a fault current to re-enter the circuit to blow the fuse.
Really like your transformer controller build. I also have a PM-935.
Your build of materials list didn't include info on the fuses; part no, where purchased. Please, would you share those details?
Good job James, and you have a really awesome set-up there.👏🏻👏🏻👌🏻
Great video, You might want to protect your box there on the floor. The shop that I work in had the same set up . The problem is metal chips down on the floor. You can imagine what happen. Drilling chips make a interesting moment.
Seconded. 2-gang in-use covers are cheap insurance
Great post James (as usual). As the unit is shoved under the mill on a bare cement floor I suggest you put some rubber feet on it to prevent rust or a short if the floor gets overly wet.
I had a brief fantasy of you cutting a big hole in the side of the mill casting to mount the box in, but that would be way too much work.
There is such a hole and panel already, but that's where the flood coolant sump is located, and I may use that some day, so the humidity in there will be around 100%.
I am so glad that in our neck of the woods, South Africa, we only use 220v. No need to wire for both systems.
But all in all, once again a nice informative video.
Great video I didn’t know you could do this. I need to do this to my cnc conversion that currently uses a 240v plug for the spindle and a 120v plug for the control/steppers
The exact power requirements of the control will dictate whether this is an economical solution.
15:03 "The funniest part is, you can't tell if that's a joke." Au contraire! I'm not falling for this trick. You gave us the answer a couple weekends ago. To quote "The other reason I wanted it is because it's a tool and I want to own them all" You are the man I perspire to be! 😁
40 years ago when my shop was built as an extension on the rear of my home I ran the 240V mains in conduit and left a pull cord in the conduit. All additions I've made since then I always made sure I left behind spare pull cord. It sure beats having to dig out my wire snake when additions were made. On that note I can't imagine doing the original pull and deciding to save a buck by eliminating the 120V neutral. Not in this life!
Wakodahatchee Chris (WA2ERQ)
Conduit would make the job much easier after the fact. The original run was with 10/2 NMB. Clearly if I did it again, I'd use 10/3 and run a neutral.
Well done James !
Nice vid. Just a suggestion-- it's bad practice to shoot a tech screw into a box. Having the sharp edge can cut your hands and your conductors. Use the appropriate length screw and put a nut on the inside (even having threads exposed is considered bad practice, over the years the exposed threads can wear through insulation, especially if the conductors move ( a flex run into a motor, etc.)
Thank you very much, you're video really help me. Verry great explanation.
nice work, a further safety step is that you can put the box on some feet (plastic or rubber) for elevation just in case of a liquid spillage on the floor (for whatever reason) especially that it is there on the ground with no direct line of vision. wish u all the best
James,
I liked the setup with the transformer and the outlets. My concern would be: what happens if you have to emergency stop the mill? The table will continue to move.
When I did this for my mill, I pulled the 240v power after the contractor in the mill control panel, so the table would stop moving if I estopped the mill.
I also understand there may be warranty implications, but I also worry about safety.
Just a thought....
This mill has a motor switch. It has no ESTOP or contactor.
Very interesting video. I have seen dozens of 120/24V control transformer systems with the neutral of the 24V secondary bonded. I have not to my knowledge worked on a 240/120 control transformer with the secondary bonded as shown in this video, but it should be the same in principal. Will have to dig a bit deeper next time I see it (same should apply for three phase equipment with control xfrmers).
20:00 did i get this right? there is no mechanical difference in the 120 and 240 Volt outlets as mechanical coding so you can accidently plug in to the wrong outlet?
No. The 120V outlets are NEMA 5-20 and have a vertical hot blade. The 240V outlets are NEMA 6-20 and have a horizontal hot blade. They aren't physically compatible.
You can make a square hole in big box and put a receptacles on it. More of work, but much cleaner look at the end.
Another very well presented video .... Thanks for sharing ... Stay safe...
Greetings. My mini split 6 ton 5 units will not power on. Service tech says to much voltage coming into home (249) ? Can anyone help?
Question, I have a 5KW 230v inverter charge controller 48v , what’s you’re thought’s me using a 100A MTO Transformer 220-440 inlet & 110-120 output for a house inverter for emergency use only my battery banks are lithium phosphate 3.2v 280Ah feeding the inverter ?
James, I am happy to see you using ferrules. IMHO one fuse on each side is enough. All fuses I saw datasheets of allow 40% over current for 30 minutes. In your case 2A fuse will conduct 2.8A without problems. This means in case of short on the secondary side, the transformer will probably never go up to this value and the fuse never blows. Anyways, nice clean job!
Since both 240V input wires are live with respect to ground, two fuses are required. A short to ground in the coil, for instance, requires protection on both hot legs.
@@Clough42 I forgot that in the US 240V are between phases, so two fuses make sense. Thanks for the answer!
Are you concerned about rogue metal swarf particles (the natural enemies of electrical insulation) getting into the open receptacles?
I want to power a single-story house 3bed two bath 120volt on each leg. what size fuses what I use for this 250va transformer ?I live in California,
Love the mill
What is the spec for the fuses you used on this project. FYI hubby installed it for our setup in Kenya so am able to use 110 tools like sanders, jigsaw etc. what I haven’t been able to use is my compound sliding saw or table saw. We have a Bussmann Fuse Current Limiting, Dual Element Time Delay, Midget Cartridge, Time Delay 2 Amp 250 V 13 and a 15 Amp but neither works for the saw. Is this the wrong fuse?
Hi James! Very interesting but cool! I don’t understand a lot of the stuff that you were talking about but a great video nonetheless! Take care!
I like how you sprung for the 20A outlets on the 2A line. x-)
I explained why. Though lots of people seem to have comments about it.
Another great video!
James, do what we do here in the sticks, just zip tie a white wire onto the conduit from your panel to your mill, hook it up and your good to go. LOL
The wires are in insulated walls, so there's nothing to zip tie to.
Could I use this to go from 120 to 240?
James, this would have been helpful last month when I was installing exactly the same transformer on my mill :-D Thinking for yourself is overrated.
Perfect spot to pick up some chips off the floor in the receptacles..... I'd look at one of the exterior outlet cover solutions you can pass cords through just to pop on the box to keep things out of the plugs :P
I was thinking about the childproofing covers they had when I was a kid.
I also thought of that, I guess the swarf will be bigger bits than would fit through the gaps until you start running iron on it 😬 conductive dust 😱
I had a similar problem in my shop, but I opted to buy a $27 voltage converter which came in a metal case with plugs, a switch, indicators and a fuse ready to go.
Great video, thanks! Could you comment on which type of fuses did you use, and maybe provide an affiliate link?
hi, just to ad that kind of transformers is use to, in electronics bench, as a isolation transformer (1:1), we do not connect ground, it must remain in a separate plain, very Andy in to connect oscilloscope to boards, no ground loop. :) cheers.
Great video... as always, but I was just wondering what happend to the pm-940
It's a sad story. It didn't work out between us.
I was in a situation where our control transformer was not giving us the correct output so what we did was connect out x2 to the panel neutral and then we bonded it to ground
You bonded the panel neutral to ground at a second point? Eek.
I suppose that you chose the 20 amp rated outlets because they had the connection type that you wanted. Otherwise, it's certainly overkill as 15 amp outlets would have served perfectly well.
Im going to build a mill and I'm converting a radial arm saw the motor is no good it only runs at 5000 rpm so I need to replace with a motor that I can control the rpm but I'm not shut what type I need either a stepper or what? could you give me some help with that and where I might be able to get it from?
You're converting a radial arm saw into a mill? That sounds ambitious.
So what kind of power consumption does a transformation like this use when idle?
I assume it will be lower without a load on it and increase as the load increases. But there will always be energy or current flowing on the primary side by the nature of how it work.
Ot was thus explained in the video and I misses it somewhere?
In _theory_ an idle transformer that is correctly rated draws no power of it's own. In actuality it generates some small amount of heat and sound energy, so is consuming power. I'd guess that a transformer this size is probably using less than 5 watts, probably 2 watts or less.
Leviton should consider making a wireless neutral terminal box. With WiFi and an iPhone app to control it. 😃
I admire your standards of workmanship, James. BTW, I have a similar drive motor that has the annoying property of traveling at different speeds, with the same setting, depending on direction. I’d sure like to improve that. (I think Quinn mentioned it in a past video) Have you seen this?
I saw her video. I haven't observed that in the Align feed. I haven't paid very close attention, though.
Thank you very good explanation
Hi James, I have 2 small issues, I know how much you love criticism…lol .
I usually when grounding the neutral on the transformer use the green wire from the neutral term to the ground so just looking at the transformer it’s obvious that the neutral is grounded instead of having to see where the second white wire is going.
I realize in your panel it’s easy to see but in more complicated panels it’s not as easy.
Also with only a 250 va having 4 outlets might be tempting to overload it and blow the fuse.
Yeah, I think using a green wire here would be clearer. I was thinking about panels I've seen where white and bare wires go to a common bus bar. I plan to eventually use all four outlets.
Howdy from Texas James, my question has nothing to do with the electrical but the square tubes under your mill. Did you find the table height just a bit to low so hence the additional height? If so what was the increase in height. Looks like 4" or so. Thanks
So why would you do this vs running a separate 120v circuit from your panel?
Wire, time, closed walls, full panel. The manual for the power feed specified it for this situation.
I really only have one issue with the way you had done this. You left the possibility of plugging in other devices at the same time as the power feed motor. I personally would have used what is called a simplex receptacle connected to the small transformer so only one thing can plug into it. This way you do not possibly overload the transformer and have to replace fuses. What you did is fine and obviously works, it is just that this is on the internet and I have to point out that I would have done it differently. You did do a fine job, as usual, to keep the installation nice and clean.
There will eventually be three power feeds and the DRO.
Thumbs up.
I'm wondering if it could go easier if you had mounted the transformer on the "lid" panel, wired it up and then covered the works with the box 🤔
You could do this, but I think the other drawbacks outweigh the benefits, since the wiring entry and exit are all in the box.
Dear jsmes I've been ordered ELS through ebay....
Like to know how to set with my own Lathe Machine...
Can you please help me out to install the software....?
There's a whole series of videos, and documentation on GitHub.
Off subject why the risers ? how tall? did you do a video?
They add 4", putting it at about the right height for me to use comfortably. It's just two pieces of 4x6x3/8"-wall rectangular tube with holes drilled in it to anxhor the mill and to mount the feet.
This would have been a great opportunity to build a custom metal enclosure that held the transformer and outlets.
Great job (as always), very neat and professional looking.
Silly question... was there not a 240v powerfeed model available? Or would that have been more hassel than it's worth?
I haven't seen a 240V model. I would think they would exist.
I’m no electrician by any means I know jack about it but am I nuts to think that now that box is live to ground when you run anything 110 from that outlet?
Great vid.
Nice work. Ciao, Marco.
The part about buying the crimper to do the job or doing the job to justify the crimper is the reason I own most of my tools
It’s fair.
I guess this is a stupid question, but why not just plug in an extension cord to a 110v outlet, and run your 110v accessories off that? The only reason I can imagine is wanting the 110v circuit to be coupled to the 240v circuit so the 110v drops if you lose 240v, but wouldn’t a magnetic relay take care of that?
I don't want an extension cord draped across the shop.
well done.
It's been a while since I've done any transformer supplies but since transformers are primarily inductive devices they wont have in-rush current. it's typically the load on the output that cause the in-rush current. There maybe a very small amount of current from capacitive coupling but I'd expect it to be very,, very low.
The Internet disagrees. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current
"When a transformer is first energized, a transient current up to 10 to 15 times larger than the rated transformer current can flow for several cycles. Toroidal transformers, using less copper for the same power handling, can have up to 60 times inrush to running current."
He who dies with the most tools wins, you are quickly getting close to the lead.
Why not use a step down voltage converter like one you would use in Europe with USA appliances. A 1.5 to 2 KW should work?
I've always been very suspicious of those. They come with copious warnings to only use them with hair dryers and not anything electronic. I assume (but don't know for sure) that they're doing something unsavory, like using a diode to cut the total power (but not the voltage).
Informative as always James but did you get a copyright license from ToT to use your hands this way?
Did you consider running a neutral to the mill? Or was that beyond feasible?
Feasible, but expensive. I would need to replace the entire circuit with 10-3 NM-B.
Big fan of your channel. The input wiring to your control power transformer primary are both ungrounded conductors so you should avoid using a white insulated conductor because this is always assigned to grounded conductors (neutral) in North America. I dont exactly know what is powering this box but since you have explained that both transformer primary conductors are being fused, I can infer that they are assumed to be ungrounded. I would recommend just adding some red electrical tape or heatshrink at all termination points for that white insulator (on the primary circuit) to denote that this is indeed an ungrounded conductor (L1 - black, L2 - red).
X2 on this comment, that way your install is code compliant per the NEC 200.4, Awesome work as always!
This is good advice. Normal practice is to color the white wire black with a marker.
@@Clough42 Not black - incorrect; white should be marked red in this instance. The NEC requires the white (neutral) wire to be marked (tape, heat shrink, whatever) on both ends and at any junctions with usually red, but never black because there already is a black wire for the other 120V phase). Black would indicate both were the same phase at the same potential. If you check the NFPA 70 Handbook you will see you have created what is known as a "separately derived system" for the 120V feed.
@@jpcallan97225 I think that's true for 3-phase, but for single phase 220V, coloring the white wire black is common practice. I have several circuits like this in my house installed and inspected during construction.
@@Clough42 Thank you for the reply. That would be true if the other wire in a 240V single phase trio were red, white and green/bare, but as an example 12-2 NM-B (Romex) is almost always black, white and bare, while 12-3 NM-B is black, red, white and bare, but never two blacks, white and bare. What you are seeing in your home wiring is a switched lighting circuit where white is used as a "traveler" instead of a neutral. The whole idea is preventing an unintended 240V short. The color code is key to avoiding an unintended phase-to-phase interconnect.
I'm retired now, but I did electrical designs for small to medium sized data centers with three phase UPS systems and diesel generators as part of my IBM mainframe consulting practice. I have a 60 KW Cummins model DGCB genset and automatic transfer switch at my house. I'm fairly familiar with things electrical.
I'd like to speak with you on the phone about your video on the phase converter if that would be possible. I do enjoy your videos and learn a lot from them.
Great video! Last week I installed a new plug on my jigsaw, now it runs backwards:')
You need to bond the box to the other grounds in the wego.
I don't know how much digging around you had to do to source all the parts, but boxes, control transformers, and at least some of the wiring bits are easily available form Automation Direct, and they often have 2 day shipping. The prices are reasonable too, and you know you are getting genuine stuff.
I'm a little concerned about plugs on the floor. In my experience that is where they get wet, oily, and full of chips swept up or blown around on the floor.
Yeah, Automation Direct is great.
I put a little blob of hot glue in a nut driver to help it hold a nut for such jobs (I use it as a wedge, I don't glue in the nut.)
Great tip, for when you have to hold the driver vertically. In this case, the quick n easy solution is simply to turn the box on its side.
I've found that some equipment have internal transformers with more than one input option. But then yes, you'll probably void the warranty.
Good tip. I just re-checked the circuit diagram, and I don't think this one has a multi-tap transformer in it. In fact, the manual actually calls for an external control transformer for operating on high-voltage mills.
Why is your Primary in parallel it be in series there should only be a jumper on your h2 and h3
Because I'm running it on 240V. You would wire the primary in series for 480V.
Nice🙂
Can anyone explain this electrical code? On the mill side he had two hot wires and a ground. Between any of the two hot wires and ground he has 120 volts but he is not allowed to use this, why?
The ground is for safety only. While you could technically use it to power a device, this would certainly not meet code.
consider what happens if the earth wire breaks somewhere.
@@fuzzy1dk This is the reason. The grounded case of everything downstream from the break would suddenly be live at 120VAC.
@@Clough42 why connect neutral to ground? Isn't that why you use a transformer. The way it's wired now is the same as one leg to hot, neutral to ground.
To be more clear. The code is neutrals only connect to ground at the main panel.
Great video . Did your power supply wire have a neutral and ground from your building ? If so don’t you just have to bond/ground the transformer base only because it’s tied to the neutral back at the panel ?
What size fuses did you use for primary and secondary?
Separately derived system, bond at neutral (like you are).
I am not sure that I have ever run a neutral for 240 split phase that I did not eventually use.
Watching you use that crimper raised the hair on the back of my neck. It looks like it would crimp a finger just fine.
Despite being disallowed in many applications, I would tin the stranded wire. For permanent installations, I sometimes use a soldered wire-nut connection.
Definitely don't tin the wire before crimping. The crimp terminal is designed to compress and retain stranded wire. If you tin first, the solder will slowly flow over time and the crimp will become loose. When this happens, the joint will heat, softening the solder further, until it fails catastrophically. I've had it happen on a 3D printer. The other problem is that soldered connections do not handle vibration well. The solder ends at some point in the wire, and all of the stress gets concentrated there. Over time, the wires crack and break. This is why you don't see solder terminals in automotive applications.
"I didn't buy this tool just for that project, that's silly. I did this project to justify buying this tool." 😂🤷♂
Just a little comment, did you ask a certified electrician about this before or after building it? In other words, does it meet the NEC codes?
I make no representation about the NEC. Note that this is a plug-in device, and not a part of the building wiring.
@@Clough42 , True, but the question remains, did you ask a certified electrician? Not a suggestion that anything was wrong, or needed NEC certification.
@@BruceNitroxpro So Bruce, only "qualified experts" can do things right. The rest of us are just ignorant fools, that don't recognize the need/brilliance of "qualified experts". I bet you like Anthony Fauci.
For me, that would not be a joke. It would be funny because it's true. And also because it's an conscious choice, not an impulse. Nowadays, at least. Or so I tell myself...