Jeremy Corbyn: Will Self and John McTernan debate
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 лип 2015
- Corbbyn backing Will Self tells Blairite John McTernan, who called Labour MPs, says it is those that support the Labour of the past, that was responsible for Iraq, that anger people.
Subscribe for more like this, every day: bit.ly/1epe41j
Dangerous world: bit.ly/1JCsSYb
The news explained: bit.ly/1epgay4
Music: bit.ly/1RVTRNy
Technology: bit.ly/1LI1K9y
Like us on Facebook: on. 1wQ1Gty
Follow us on Twitter: bit.ly/1mFUjBD
I'm a natural Labour voter, but I hated Blair ; he discredited the Labour Party. Give me something worth voting for or I really won't bother voting next time. I want to see re - nationalisation of utilities, rail and communications and corporate tax avoidance slashed. You know, that dirty word to you Labour MPs, socialism.
But then you lose business and investment ie JOBS!!
TheGava4 private sector jobs, perhaps, but it'll lead to a glut of new work in state jobs.
TheGava4 why? because a renationalised railway no longer needs to employ people to drive trains and take tickets? What a silly argument!
Do I give a shit that Amazon might take their business elsewhere? No. They pay 0.01% tax, treat workers like shit, and we're paying for the roads they deliver their goods on. Not to mention all the shops and local jobs that are lost to online shopping. This is no way to build communities and get people to understand we are completely reliant on other human beings.
Corporate tax avoidance is costing the country millions of pounds - money that could be used to solve the problems of the majority of UK citizens, rather then buy yachts for a handful of the rich
Josie Fox yes yes yes im totally working class council estate i want old labour back [derek hatton esque]
Josie Fox yes yes yes im totally working class council estate i want old labour back [derek hatton esque]
McTernan presided over Labour losing 41 of 42 seats in Scotland. But Corbyn is an 'electoral liability' he reckons. McTernan is bonkers.
👏
mikemckv Thats what he was there to do. . . Closet Tory, he would love to see labour in ruins.
mikemckv
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
mikemckv Whilst Corbyn is unelectable. McTernan needs to go home....
mikemckv He also thinks the British people still love his bum chum Bliar. . . He is living on a different planet.
Why is McTernan being wheeled out at every opportunity to talk about (in a nasty smug way) Corbyn when he has proved himself to understand nothing of Labour values and how to win votes, particularly in Scotland?
applepye87 And I heard he was being investigated by Scottish police for interfering in the referendum process.
applepye87
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
applepye87 Whichever big brain behind Labour plans their strategy seems to have blown a fuse in recent years. Similarly, if Tony Blair and Gordon Brown wanted to stop people voting for Corbyn then they should be BACKING him, not criticising him. Where is the self-awareness?
Jim McIntosh "Similarly, if Tony Blair and Gordon Brown wanted to stop people voting for Corbyn then they should be BACKING him, not criticising him. Where is the self-awareness?"Very true , but then self awareness is something Blair was never cursed with.
Jim McIntosh I love your second sentence, really hit the nail on the head. But I suppose megalomania and a massive ego will cause a certain degree of blindness.
I'm in my 30's and I've never voted in my life. There was never anyone I felt was truely independent and with a moral backbone to vote for. When Tony Benn died I felt sad that we had lost someone in Parliament who stood for moral principles. Corbyn is the first politician in the running for leadership I have ever seen in my life time who has the intellect, ethics, connections and experience to be an effective leader of this country who will enable democratic and compassionate policies. As leader of the Labour party he would have a real chance to beat the first past the post system too (Which I dream of one day being a page in a history book).
My hope is that he has the courage and can remain secure enough to follow through and clean up our house when he is there. I will be registering and voting for Jeremy. So that will give you some idea of where his surge in strength is coming from.
Absolutely right. As Jeremy Corbyn stayed true to his principles all through the coercive years of Blair I am sure nothing will change him. He is just what this country needs.
***** Excellent words shaman! Have you registered yet?
David Boyden
Yup just finished registration.
***** Good man! If the bookie's odds are anything to go by, it will be very close. Our votes might just make the difference!
***** Amen. I'm 27 and have voted twice, but always in protest. I've always felt the way to undermine FPTP and get proper reform was for protest votes to skew the percentages. I never in 9 years thought I'd even consider voting for Labour in their current state, let alone signing up as a supporter in their leadership election. Go Corbyn!
Will Self spot on
***** The horror!
WickedProphett
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
WickedProphett Usually is, more often than not.
That John McTernan bloke sounds like a scratched record
Yeah he seemed to speak on a loop !!! Even Will looked pissed off.
TheGava4 when does Will Self not look pissed off?!
+Calum Lynn wrong word....frustrated might be better, that the other guy says the same thing over and over again.
For all the blairites in the labour party... if you have conservative views do the right thing and join the conservative party.
MadonasX1 So true
MadonasX1 Call me mad, but I could swear that when Blair got into number ten, his first guest (next day) was Margaret bloody Thatcher. I can't find a link for it, but I remember it. Never liked Blair, or his fans.
***** Blair and Brown have done wonders for Labour in Scotland. Wakey wakey time.
***** So that's '97 and '07. I do remember a later visit right enough.
Blair may have do some good but he and new labour did a lot wrong and new labour is the Conservative party but it a little red and full on blue and it is time to go left not right with this Country to move on from the greedy 80's.
Even the camera is bored of McTernan's views!
1:38 lovely bit of camera work
I love Will Self and I'm not afraid to admit it!
The BadMan that's a pretty unpleasant thing to say
The BadMan Will is British though.
The BadMan and you're an authority on this how?
+Asif Khan Is Asif a man's name?
Asif Khan Will Self is indeed very cool - didn't he get caught snorting heroin is the toilet of a plane he was flying on with John Major and co? That's pretty damn cool, and if I was stuck on a plane with John Major, I'd need hardcore drugs too.....
I think Will Self's correct, all this talk about the need to win power from the three other candidates is so unappealing and cynical. What's the point if you don't stand for anything, how can you be trusted? It's just a way for you personally to become powerful.
Miss Michelle
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
How can joining a political party and supporting an MP of that party, who has always been a member of that party, be considered 'entryism'? It can't! That's the answer to my question.
"It's all about winning power".
That, right there, is precisely what selling your soul looks like. You can almost see the transaction happening as he says it.
Andrew Wilson true - but I’d rather a soulless labour was in power than the tories.
Or you could change the system, and empower Hard Right.
As opposed to screaming in the wilderness and letting the Tories govern. That is all you corbynites ever did. And that is why you have been utterly crushed. Find a hobby elsewhere.
7yrs on and look where we are now compared to what we could have had.
Thank you Mr Self. We need people like you, to talk to people like him in the media.
JM: "Only a Labour government can make change." But if that change, as from Blair and Brown, is anti-labour and pro-City of London, what's the point of a Labour government?
Will Self is spot on. Both parties have very neoliberal ideology in the party. I think it is being glued together by the first past the post system. Maybe we will see a break away once the system is changed. I reckon we will see a split through Tories and a split through Labour. The Liberal democrats will probably merge with the neoliberal faction of the Labour party. The traditionalist Labour party will get union backing and possibly merge with Greens and ally with SNP. The Conservatives will probably split away into three, with neo-conservatives, ukip and a possible third major player emerging from the traditionalist right.
The political landscape will change quite significantly for sure.
Perhaps, but tories splitting 3 ways is wishfull thinking.
The countries changing, and all these aged people with stubborn minds are not letting it evolve.
I don't think they even fully grasped the SNP landslide in Scotland. They're still living in the past while the rest of us are moving forward.
Unions can't tell their members what to do, but union leaders have been told what to do by their members. That's why they're backing Corbyn. Because the members told them too.
Jacqui Berry My Union did call me to get my political view actually. Corbyn's policies match my top concerns.
John mcternan should back of, he's rude arrogant and in the wrong party, his way of winning an election is to say what he thinks people want to hear, with Jeremy you hear time and time again what he believes in,win or lose he is a man who is honest and full of integrity, which surely is what we need, and is something we have not had for many years, so Jeremy has my vote.
Will self absolutely nails the entire debate. Intelligent guy.
Did the camera rolls its eyes around 1:38?
Mr. McTiernan, if politics is about "getting into power" and supporting a leader who can do that, do the honest thing and join the Conservative Party. Stalin was in power for decades. I suppose you would have supported him to the bitter end! I have no idea what you are on about, but I do understand that all you're interested in is power and money.
the81kid
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
*Register and vote Jeremy Corbyn for British Labour Party leader.* www.labour.org.uk/w/labour-party-supporters
erzan
Thanks but I kind of agree with the position that we shouldn't register Labour just for a moment. The Labour party needs people interested in Labour as a long term project.
Also, the situation is complex. Corbyn is by far the best candidate for Prime Minister in decades. He's certainly the most sincere, and his policies and ideas are very eloquent and make sense. But the sad thing is that he is not even that socialist. It's a sad sign of the times that New Labour and the Conservatives are almost identical - I can't find real differences between them. I like Corbyn, and I hope he becomes Prime Minister more than any other mainstream party corrupt politicians we have today. But with the challenges and crisis that the world is facing, we're going to need even more of a revolution.
+the81kid don't go down that dangerous line. Unfortunately Will Self is right. Until AV or a collaborative system the Labour party has to be a broad Church. We are getting Corbyn in. The hope being he drags the debate to the left, wakes up the socialist core of Labour and these mindless political drones focus grouping and polling their way through the parliamentary system will wake up. As long as people respond to Corbyn's ideas the numbers will be there for these people to blow with the wind to socialist ideas. They do NOT need to be purged. They need to be convinced and they need to wake up. Making them Tories does leave us as the left fringe, they are Labour and need to be reminded what that means. If you think all Tories believe the crap Ian Duncan Smith says you are an idiot. There are a lot in both parties who are effectively centrists. You don't get rid of the centre you just put your stamp on it and pull them along with your more radical plans. Although how McTiernan lost the entirety of Scotland and didn't question his values I have no idea.
Dan Y
I'm not against you. I hope everyone votes for Corbyn. I just wish we could vote all the Blairites out more.
John McTernan came to my country (Australia) and did absolutely zero to revive the electoral fortunes of the Labor Party here. They were unceremoniously booted out of office with a legacy of being probably the most unpopular govt. in modern Australian history. How he can claim divine knowledge of what will make a party electable or unelectable when his one claim to fame is being a Blair govt. adviser during its decline and deterioration is astounding
Self is spot on. Every word.
I love how the camera spins away when McTernan starts speaking. LOL.
I would feel comfortable voting for labour again if Corbyn was leader. I could never bring myself to vote for Blair and always did a 'protest vote' instead.
the labour party needs to re-imagine the socialist ideas of the 19th century for the 21st. Corbyn seems to embody this and I think many British people see it and understand it. The media and many politicians just don't understand the public mood.
What did Will Self say about learning the lessons of history?
I have got only two words and one date to say to him: Michael Foot, 1983.
1:38 the camera rolled its eyes
McTernan is completely oblivious to just criticism, bleating the same ridiculous line. As for mentioning housing, Thatcher with the more responsible Heseltine as Housing Minister, built more council housing than Blair. Hence the serious housing crisis, we have now.
Did the camera man just turn away in disgust?
Simplistic view, I know, but an educated couple - a young man and woman leaving University, have debts between them of up to £40k. They start their careers and rent a small flat, at first, but hope to buy a small starter home. Saddled with debt and without Mum and Dad's financial help they are refused by the Bank. Media dictates that women must conceive before the age of 30 if they're to have a good chance of a family. ???????
1:40 - Was that the cameraman throwing up?
To be fair, I was already fed up of looking at Ternan at that point too!
Will Self articulated himself perfectly there.
I don’t mind listening to proposals that rather than labour and tories being held together in a coalition as one party, they should stand on separate platforms then come together after.
Yes I Think I Will Not be Voting again
Was the description written by a spambot?
Someone should point out to McTernan that Blair did bugger all for the poorest in society so actually they don't want a Blairite Labour Party, if they did Brown and Miliband would have won.
They just don't get it do they?
We need ukip for the next 10 years. Current parties are hanging on tooth and nail.
I wouldn't mind if Blair and his acolytes had actually done anything for the working people McTernan. I rejoiced in 1997 when I thought that the new Labour government would restore al the rights stripped from the working people. Oh how that was short lived. What is more disturbing is that the ones most affected go and vote for the Tories! Get anyone other than Corbyn and you get a Tory with a red tie, that's all.
I like Will Self, and I like Self-acting camera systems that decide to spin 360° for the sake of it
What i haven't heard mentioned yet is that if the opposition move to the left it brings the whole political discourse further left. If Labour is centre ground, often sanctioning policies of the right, everything gets moved to the right.
"Politics is about winning power"
Not ...principles or pragmatism or beliefs or a desire to represent the people or a desire to do good.
F**kin Hell McTernan, that truly says everything about modern politics.
Govanmauler Lol typed this and then Will made the same point
John McTernan "more than half the voters in the country voted Tory". Actually this is incorrect. Out of a total of 47 million registered voters only 11 million voted for the Tories but as there was only a 65% voter turn out in this election the tories won with votes from only 1/4 of registered voters.
hahhaa 1.37 cameraman had enough of that guys face
Alex Brady he might be absolutely unrepentant for the disaster in the Middle East caused directly by Labour's toadying to GW Bush and lying to everyone about WMD but credit where its due John McTernan did do a superb job on Predator, Die Hard and Hunt for Red October
Camera man couldn't keep himself together after hearing McTernan start spouting.
The camera work at 1:39 says everything about British politics, the politicians and the people who vote.
As somebody who would never vote for Labour its time to get your deck chairs out and enjoy the self destructive circus that is the Labour party today
The idea of powermongering that McTernan talks about seems to be poisonous to politics in the UK. Both Labour and the Tories seem to think it's all about winning power rather than following their own policies and it seems to be eroding both party's foundations. If they keep this up the 2 main parties will probably fade away to many more smaller parties and I suspect the country will be better of anyway.
I am voting Corbbyn and I am hoping he will go on to become PM. The Blairites need to go to the Tories.
Great chat. Love Will
I love the bit where the camera can't bear to look at John McTernan any more - 1:38
@1:38 was the cameraman drunk or did lord mandleson come in and do a vampire bite on the neck?
A change is coming .......bring it on..!!!
Corbyn will make Labour "unelectable." ??? Did this presenter just see what happened at the last election? He can't do much worse and will probably do better.
McTeinan seems to know little about the utter desperation of ordinary people for something approaching democracy; something which will stop the open corruptions shown by the right wing and then by encouragement , across the civil service and public life.
Will Self talks a lot of sense!....P.R. Is absolutely necessary....
Change can be affected by effective opposition..Try it
If Corbyn is unelectable, what does that say about burnham, cooper and Kendall that they can't beat him?
I actually remember when Labour really got the edge in the seventies, but the situation with the unions and labours ability to get them in line was shambolic to say the least-does anyone else remember the mountains of festering rubbish left on the streets for weeks on end? The power cuts, the constant strikes and runaway inflation? It was a nightmare-that ended up being replaced _with_ a nightmare in the form of Thatcher. We need something different for sure.
***** unions don't have the sort of power now that they had in the 70s. They have influence of course, which in my opinion is a good thing. But no entity, organisation, etc of any sort should be able to hold a country to ransom. That goes for the unions as well as the City bankers.
corbyn is the only candidate who attended the anti austerity march. He is the only candidate who actually cares about what happens to the destitute in this country, the number of which is growing every day.
TWATTY MCTERNAN literally had nothing to say in this entire interview, can anyone tell me a valid point this guy made? all i heard is him waffling and bitching about corbyn being shit in some vague way or another, then saying how important power is.
Corbyn is a representative of the good, kind hearted people of this country, and that can and will be a very powerful thing.
If you need to win to make changes, and you need a leader who can win, then who the hell put Ed Miliband at the head of the party?
What on earth? Will Self clearly values ideological purity, which is fine, but the whole point of democracy is that voters force political parties to readjust to listen to voters' concerns.
Labour needs to adapt to Britain, not the other way around.
Oh hi John McTernan. Left Scotland already? but you've still got 1 whole Labour seat up here
Mcternan says he doesn’t think he arrogant enough.. I’d disagree. Perhaps he’s also too modest.
If Corbyn is elected how long until the Labour Party split or the parliamentary Labour Party pass a no confidence vote on their leader? 1 month or 6 months?
I think Will Self is right. Labour needs to split as it now incorporates people who are closer to Thatcher than Clem Attlee.
Ironic that McTernan talks about the unions needing a Labour government, as if he cares about the unions. His response to the Southern strikes was to call for the Tories to do more to 'smash the unions'. He is the epitome of Labour being too broad a church; claims to be Labour, yet has views which would put him to the right of centre in the Conservatives.
But what is the point of winning if you have no principles?
1:38 Apparently listening to John McTernan is so unbearable not even the cameraman can stand it...
"I dont think he will win" Watch this space matey
we stand sholder sholder this man.
When the voting system doesn't elect you're preferred candidate then of course "the system must be changed". How about the Chinese or North Korean system that only allows "approved" candidates then ? A Labour government would certainly bring about change. Change back to the economic chaos of the past.
McTernan is not a nice character. He cannot articulate. He doesn't know what to say. How on earth he is an advisor is beyond belief.
we don't another labour party, or the tories , we need someone with some common sense
A lot of people on the hard left of labour spend a lot more time criticizing blairites than the tories
If Tony Blair and his adviser are against Corbyn, they're basically just strengthening Corbyn's campaign.
well said John
Will Self knows what's up
Will Self is quite right to pick on the British voting system, that's the real issue, not the candidates. People want to vote for a party that more closely represents their own position and modern politics is far too complicated to boil everything down to black or white (I mean blue or red). We need convinced Pirates, Greens, Socialists, Liberals, National Democrats, Populists and however many more. The system needs to be able to cope with the spread in political convictions. Jeremy Corbyn sharpens up the focus without polarising, quite an achievement in itself. But he is about focus, not (primarily) winning an election, which McTernan doesn't seem to be able to (or want to) understand. Corbyn could well be the next PM, but in a coalition.
At lease if JC gets the leadership the Conservative voters will not be confused between the 2 parties.
"Socalism is a great until you run out of other people's money"
Actually this what you need inorder to win power:
1)policies that people believe in
2)a leader that people believe will keep their word. That belief is based on scrutinizing what they've been saying for their entire lifetime.
john what are you on about?
Surely, Will means Broad Synagogue?
Mc T is right on: 'the people do know what they want' - like in Scotland the end of blue arsed Labour.
McTernan seems like a right boring waste of space
John McTernan talking about "electable" rather than what's the best for the people, he's the kind of dead weight that Labour needs to shed
Listen to yourself John
Even if Corbyn became PM and tried to put his policies into practice, he would find resistance from the markets. Investors would require a higher rate of interest before lending to the government and there would probably be a run on the pound. Look at whats just happened in Greece- you cannot challenge capitalism and reform it at the same time. Parliamentary 'socialism' does not work. The only way is libertarian/anarchist communism.
Honesty that's all it really is.
Last Labour in govermerment -
A Somalian refugee family with seven children are living in a £2.1m luxury home in Notting Hill next door to celebrities, with the £2,000-a-week rent paid by the taxpayer.
Francesca Walker, a mother-of-eight who also lived in Kensington and Chelsea, defended her £90,000-a-year housing benefit claims for a £2 million villa in Notting Hill.
Every Tory will be hoping this guy becomes labour unelectable leader. Go Jeremy.
Juan Cano Yeah, yeah, son. Any more clichés to peddle us?
Laurie Harper
The figures are not disputed. I have not hear any labour admitting they got it very wrong on welfare.
I hear there is a group called - Tories for Corbyn
Juan Cano You have not "hear any labour admitting"?????? Did yoo go too skool? No doubt you'd prefer poor people to be put in labour camps (like Tories for Corbyn probably do). Tell you what, if any Tories want to vote for JC, that's fine by me. Just as long as he gets the gig. ;-).
Laurie Harper
I would prefer poor people to have a chance of getting a job, progress in life and have a respectable and fullfilling life.
Juan Cano So how do you propose to make that happen? By voting for those who want to keep them "in their place", I suppose? You are spectacularly naïve. What do you mean by "respectable", btw?
Interesting how Will just played the man, and not the ball.
I am no supporter of Corbyn, or even of the Labour party but it is damn well refreshing to see the man speak. I disagree with a lot of what he says, but what he says, he believes in. We are seeing a similar thing over the pond from the other end of politics with Donald Trump. It seems people across the political spectrum and at least the anglosphere are completely sick of careerist neoliberals and neoconservatives who will say anything to be elected while pursuing policies only beneficial to the wealthy.
The difference between Corbyn and someone like Trump or Farage is that the last two have worked out that mass immigration is only good for the wealthy. If somehow we could marry traditionalist social values and patriotism with socialism, I think we would have a country that does not need divisive party politics.
John McTernan
The people of this Country need a proper, opposition to the policies that have played out and Ruined this Country for this last 40 years, working class people treated like they are worthless, and every political catastrophe that takes place is the fault of the working class, well it's not, it's damn bad policy, no control of monetary movement , IE the banks, in cahoots with Govt, the labour party in it's present form is crap
1:38 LOL
Can I.... vote for Will Self please?
What the country needs is PR - then you vote for whatever party you want. To hell with voting for New Labour to keep the Tories out. That's political blackmail not democracy. Somewhere between a Rock and a hard place, a catch 22, a causality dilemma.
Basically a good cop/ bad cop routine. The Tory cop beats the shit outta you; then the Labour cop softens you up with a cigarette and a cup of coffee. However, ultimately, both cops have the same objectives - namely - privatization and Neo Imperialism.
Will Self with the Truth Bombs!!!