+hold the chicken Okay I think we get the message, you are somehow of the vacuous perception that if people arm themselves with an Oxford English Dictionary this will in someway bestow on us full comprehension of the political philosophies and stances of Messrs Parris and Self!? Indeed, only one who himself has a rudimentary grasp of political science would offer such a mediocre suggestion.
Davy Jones-Locker no just that if you can't understand what he's saying, look the words up, it helps to make better sense of it, and improve oneself all at the same time, rather than moaning that they can't understand what he says.
conservative who hates corbyn vs labour supporter who thinks corbyn is unelectable? i hope (and im 99% sure) that everybody can see how ridiculously bias channel 4 is.. i actually feel embarrassed for them watching this lol
+shamanahaboolist the London Establishment bubble. I AM a grandmother but I'm streets ahead of them. They can't get their thinking out of the old paradigm.
HitMeQuick My gran was probably right about a lot of things too.... but not on subjects she had no fucking idea about or some obvious cognitive bias over. My analogy still stands.
I'm afraid they're pretty much spot on. A schism in Labour is very likely, but that might cause the tory party to break up soon afterwards. However there will be an interim period where the electoral performance of Labour will be very poor. It won't last more than a decade though - radical conservatism does not represent the majority of the UK voters so it can't last long. Another 2-3 parliaments at most. We must not confuse engagement with the radical left in our social bubble with ideological dominance over the entire country.
this tory government has been smashing the poor and vulnerable to bits and yet it all seems to come across as a game to the smug, rich, sneering will self.
+MassMurdering Mao Not so sure about that. Economics isn't only dismal but also to an extent mysterious. And nothing works unless there are poor and vulnerable people, to support the value of money.
He wasn't saying he is a joke, he's subtly saying the establishment would never allow him to be Prime Minister with his morals and views. And he was right, it's dumb people in this country that don't understand simple stuff that have brought us to where we are
I don't get Will Self sometimes. In fact I was sure in the other clip with McTernan he kind of said he was not opting for Jeremy Corbyn, while here it turns out he actually voted for him. Along with the fact that he talks in such obscure and confusing language. A couple of jokers here in all honesty, showing just how out of touch they are really.
Self is far removed from the ordinary working man & woman! He’s arrogance and myopic view of the electorate reflects why the Labour Party lost so badly!
The Parliamentary Labour Party is being set up as an obstacle to Corbyn's Leadership, but Corbyn has 60% members' support so even a head to head challenge is almost bound to fail (if even get off the ground). Corbyn will form a consensus from membership on revised fundamental policies and each Labour MP will have to ask themselves if they're in the right political party....There's no shortage of prospective candidates from the 60% of membership.
"There's no shortage of prospective candidates from the 60% of membership." Ah the dedicated party loyalists. Some of them have spent up to £3 pounds and the best 3 weeks of their lives on this great historic movement. Some of them have even promised to stop voting for the Greens! In a sense you are right. If labour were dumb enough to "sell voting shares" in their party for 3 quid a pop then they have got everything they deserve. The MPs at Westminster first an foremost owe their loyalty to the constituents that elected them. They have been given a mandate. That occurred before Corbyn's radical gear shift.
+James Watker That is what all political parties do. Donators or membership fees its all the same. People paying money to influence politics. I haven't looked at each individual MP's campaign literature but most labour would have spouted anti tory rhetoric and standing up to the tories hence their constituents aren't being ignored. To my knowledge no labour contender put in his campaign to stand up to left wing views which they themselves are supposed to hold.
+Iazzaboyce Yes we wouldn't want things to go back to the eighties, with a tory government tearing away the priveleges of the citizens ad handing them over to big business. Or incompetently running things so that they can sell them to their friends in the city at a cheap price. Or attacking the poorest of society while giving tax cuts to the rich. Your right the Tories do have to stop looking to the past for their political policies.
Oh I remember Parris in the 1980s when he did a 'stint' on the dole for a week. He couldn't manage on the amount of dole he was given, but said he thought it was still a good idea. Luckily for him he had a well-paid job and a nice bank balance to go back to. Hypocrite.
Yes -- exactly- I remember that too. Parris banging on in true Tory fashion about the working class living the life of Riley on benefits. I think this blinkered privileged idiot couldn’t last more than 4 days , before he decided to access his personal bank account. The only thing I like about this Tory elite dimwit , is that he came out as gay ! Clear off you soft spoken privately educated moron .
Getting 3 people with absurd opinions together to pontificate total rubbish devoid of all connection to reality again Cathy? Well good to see you are consistent. What makes me laugh about all this media business trying shift the overton window to the right and posturing that Corbyn's unelectable / has impossible policies, is that not a SINGLE person offering this opinion puts up even a sniff of reasoning, let alone valid logical reasoning, as to why that is the case. That's when you know these people are talking total shite. People who really have a point are quick to support their assertions as best they can.
Reading the comments of corbyn delusionsts here is beyond entertaining, it's actually quite worrying to see how many people haven't got a clue about how the political system works, the rules of it or the dynamics. I challenge anyone here to argue against any of the points Parris or Self spoke hereof. All I see is pooh slinging without any hint of reason.
hold the chicken Can you even identify a point that was made by Parris or Self that wasn't an ad hominem or just an assertion with no reason? I didn't notice a single valid point made by either of them.
I like Will Self, but I'm confident that he has it completely wrong here. The problem (in a good way) with the Blairites is that they're really quite spineless, and they don't have a natural leader amongst them to lead them to any sort of split or put up a challenge to Corbyn. For the short term, they'll grumble, look a bit sullen, throw around some veiled threats and ultimatums--and then meekly fall in line. Corbyn isn't the disaster they imagine him to be. The reported chaos is a mostly a lot of media noise. In the broader scheme of things, most people don't give a damn or aren't even aware of the supposed fuss. Things will settle down, and the PLP will learn to accept Corbyn sooner rather than later.
The tin foil hat brigade bang on about the Jewish conspiracy then rich Jewish people who own the papers smear him because they don't want him in power, the irony.
I voted to elect Corbyn as leader and I don't even want him, I realised he was a champaign Socialist and to be honest I now think he is a closet Communist.
What if people had said 'Its impossible' with regard to slavery, womans equality etc. Fact is normal people are upset with politics as it is and no amount of comment from pundits is going to make them feel better.
+Squelch133 Good point. They also all said Corbyn was a 200:1 outsider who would come last in the leadership election, but he won a landslide with more votes than all his rivals combined. And he attracted hundreds of thousands of new supporters to the Labour Party. They just don't understand how hungry people are for some real change and a principle politician who will keep his word.
Well Hold the chicken, Corbyn seems to be bringing new arguments. Examples: He is pro technology industry and pro womens lib. He also seems to want to be positive. Can you join us in some positivity?
+hold the chicken Well, evidently, you have no issue in "going back to the 70s" judging by your fascination with 1970s Jack Nicholson movie clips! Hmm, "you can't handle the truth"?!
+hold the chicken Well, evidently, you have no issue in "going back to the 70s" judging by your fascination with 1970s Jack Nicholson movie clips! Hmm, "you can't handle the truth"?!
Matthew Parris' infantile insults were as follows: "It's remarkably difficult to think of anything interesting to say, about his arrival. It's like a bear comes to live in your house and you can argue will his claws tear the sofa? Where will the bear poo? What happens if people come to dinner? The fact is it's a bear- that's all there is to be said". Absolutely pathetic performance from Matthew Parris.
Parris has it spot on. I just spend 6 excruciating minutes listening to Corbyn tie himself in knots trying to answer a question about the ceremonial requirements of joining the Privy Council. He can't help himself. It's the agony of compromise.
James Watker There was nothing wrong with the reply he made. Quite understandable that he should be hesitant given his republican sentiments. It was more than reasonable to want to find out more about the process first. It also transpires that the premise of the question was nonsense. The ceremony does not involve kneeling and kissing the Queen's hand.
He tried everything; flirty glance, wee joke, dog ate my homework (the letter hasn't arrived), getting twitchy, stony silence, pompous lecture on the ills of society, avoiding personal culpability (I have to discuss it with my colleagues) and eventually admitting he wasn't prepared to answer. Which he couldn't have done in 5 seconds. All that for a question of protocol. "It also transpires that the premise of the question was nonsense. " Not really the point. A future PM has to answer many speculative questions that later turn out to be false. As Parris said bears will be bears.
I have never voted in 35 years. In 5 years time I will vote for Corbyn. I earn over £100,000 a year. I hope he raises taxes on land owners, corporations and high earners. I am fine with paying my share to a government who will do something other than give it to themselves and their mates.
The fact that a man with views so diametrically apposed to the party's members of parliament is now their leader perfectly illustrates the benefits electing a new leader by its members of parliament rather than its members. Labour members voted a leader for them, not the electorate. Its the closest act of political self-immolation I have ever seen in British polotics
Facile non-point. As for your conclusion: you'll no doubt stake your house and all its contents against a Labour victory with a bookmaker at the next general election, then. The fact is the Party has at long last reacquainted with its grass roots support.
Clive Lewis the shadow secretary said during the Labour Party Conference . The debate about neo-liberal policies is now on after 35 years, the jury is in. "Neoliberalism was an infant economic theory, so a lot people were taking it on trust and saying: ‘OK, let’s try this.’ But now we’ve had 35 years of it, and we don’t have a shareholder democracy; corporations have bought those shares out. We don’t have people owning their own home; a large percentage are renting and 40% of homes are now buy-to-let, in many cases owned by Rachmanesque landlords. So things have changed. People in the 1980s went to university and came out and got a decent job, but they see their children with thirty to forty to fifty thousand pounds’ worth of debt and working in Costa. So people are beginning to realise - This. Isn’t. Working.”
Will Self often amuses me about how wrong he is. I like the way he put's together a sentence and everything but this is a man who voted liberal for God sake. How politically naive could one man be?
He takes his highly privileged culturally aloof social circle as somehow a microcosm of British popular opinion! Will self is the epitomy of the middle class classists, who have taken the labor party over at the expense of the traditional "working class" for whom Peeps like Will Self barely conceal their despisement off!
I wish people would stop saying "Europe" when they mean "EU". Little things like that are going to be bad for the image of the NO campaign. Anti-EU people have nothing against Europe. In fact, they are pro Europe and simply want a return to national sovereignty and democracy for all countries within the continent.
@@ChrisPatrick-q6k What exactly is vile about him? As someone from his constituency I think precisely the opposite he is too good for this country, his morale character is unshakeable in a field full of crooks and Machiavellian's?
I'm from the United States, and I've only recently stumbled across this Jeremy Corbyn fella, due to parallels that have been drawn between him and Bernie Sanders. It's interesting to see how incredibly similar political discourse the world over seems to be these days. Your media is about as worthless as ours. A bunch of billionaire funded opinion shows which express billionaire opinions packaged as news. It's time to take things back! You've made a great stride in the UK, and hopefully we can make that same move here in the US. Politics has never been such a circus.
+Bigbadd Woofe Murdoch who owns FOX in USA, owns most of the fucking media over here. That's why our media is as worthless as yours. I don't know what it's like over there but most of the cunts over here don't realise they are swallowing propaganda everyday and lapping it up. The media here is trying to destroy Corbyn, the twats who read the papers and watch SKY will believe every fucking word! You know what. When you are at school over here you get educated on the British Empire and WW2 when we were great and all that bollocks. Whilst they are educating you on how evil the Nazi's were one of the main things they go on about is evil Goebbels with his evil propaganda making the German people thing the nazi cause was righteous etc. So you grow up thinking "ooh propaganda is bad" those bloody Nazis. All the while you are being fed hardcore propaganda from the government and media but you don't even realise. The main tabloid over here The Sun (has biggest circulation) comes across all matey and family. Yet it insidiously makes people bias to the people in powers aims.
ericoulthwaite Murdock is literally destroying the world, slowly but surely. Thankfully even conservatives are starting to pull away from Fox news nowadays. They call Bill O'Reilly and Chris Wallace 'Commie Socialists' lmao! Neocons and Neolibs are both fucking CRAZY! I hate all of the overly sensitive PC bullshit from the neolibs, and I hate everything about Neocons (not the people, only their philosophy). Here in America we are brainwashed to believe that this is the only decent country to live in in the world (at least that was my experience). It wasn't til I was in my mid-teens that they started teaching otherwise. I thought the whole world outside of America was some kind of 3rd world hell when I was young. Like America was the white knight in a world of evil. In the process of killing Communism, Fascism has grown slowly and gently into the monster we are experiencing today. It is not raw and pure, but it is the backbone of modern day political discourse. We will take it back, Comrade ;)
All this media binge on anti Corbyn is making the despicable Conservative welfare and union voting bills pale to insignficance.......but gives us more reason to want Corbyn.
I voted to elect Corbyn as leader and I don't even want him, I realised he was a champaign Socialist and to be honest I now think he is a closet Communist.
A Labor supporter that voted for Corbyn just to stir things up and a Tory. Seeing as Channel 4 is publicly owned I would have expected a little more impartiality.
It's extraordinary that a party leader who talks about the very real economic difficulties that so many people face is considered so 'out there' and inappropriate by Matthew Parris that he's compared with a bear in your living room.
Were you willingly blind? Corbyn was an incompetent eccentric, totally out of touch with the electorate. It's one thing to "talk about" the challenges facing people, but it's quite another thing to produce something credible to tackle those problems. Corbyn failed spectacularly. Perhaps the lesson for yourself is to question why you're so gullible and have such poor judgement.
This whole interview seems rather prescient, given the events of the past week.
9 років тому+1
He'll won't be checked out by the end of the month that's for sure. It depends on how much he listens to the people around him and I think he will. First day in parliament - new suit... Even though he doesn't look comfortable in it, he wore it. Outsiders can win: the US could vote for Trump, the brits for Corbyn.
So this is what it must be like to watch Bill O'Reilly in the UK. A bunch of really polite SOUNDING people saying rude and obnoxious things about candidates they dont like without backing it up with any data. At least they aren't blaming black people for enabling candidates like Corbyn to rise in the polls even briefly; I guess that's a small improvement over O'Reilly.
It's fun now watching all the establishment "journalists" and "experts" being completely wrong while completely sure of themselves. Take a look at yourselves. Really - here you were. You said this crap. Think about what you've done with your lives. Think about who you've turned into.
Corbyn was like a huge populist flywheel that was happy to gently spin at 200 RPM, protesting, slyly hissing. But the centre ground are ultimately in charge in the control room, and they spun him up beyond his 900 rpm limit, and he broke up.
both guests are TV propaganda entertainers. the nerve of CH4 to think either of these insignificant individuals could have any bearing on ppl's political thoughts is insulting.
isn't it nice that you can have two intelligent people with opposing views, actually having an enlightening and mutually-receptive conversation. you don't see that often on british television do you.
Today is 3 days after the 2017 election - how utterly wrong these establishment talking heads turned out to be! Their pontifications will never have more than a marginal credibility from this day onward.
Yet a large part of the reason for the outcome of the 2017 GE was self inflicted problems within the Conservative party, which Will and Matthew would be hard pressed to have predicted. The central thesis stood up quite well. Corbyn has remained unpopular within the PLP and the membership sent him back to be leader again. They probably underestimated or misjudged Corbyn. He isn't a bear, he's a stubborn old goat with a tough hide who doesn't quit. The possibility of an existential crisis has not gone away. Even if they've had to admit the perfectly obvious, that he is a bloody good campaign speaker and rally style campaigner, even if he is a hopeless party leader, many mainstream Labour MPs still hold political views which don't chime too closely with those of Corbyn. They will fight for what they believe and oppose Corbyn still. I can't see them sitting back and quietly acquiescing to a permanent takeover by the left of the party. Even if they fail in the short term and Jeremy becomes PM, the ensuing chaos will only serve to retoxify the labour brand for decades and hasten the formation of a new centre party.
If the reason had been due to self inflicted damage by the Conservative party, why was a landslide still being predicted right up until the exit poll? It should have been more obvious. The snap election was widely applauded at the time as a shrewd move which would wipe out Labour for a generation leaving them with less than 100 seats. Corbyn's unpopularity within (part of) the PLP might be because they *perceived* him as unelectable - though I admit some are ideologically opposed to him and shouldn't be in the Labour party. Once every few generations there is a sea change in political ideologies within the population. People who have lost out demand change. So long as neo-liberalism delivered people were happy to vote for right wing governments such as New Labour (I say right wing because I lived through Ted Heath's Conservative government and New Labour was to far to the right of them). Problem for the Tories is that the under 30s see themselves worse off - there will be a swing to the left just as there was in the 60s for demographic reasons if nothing else. My generation could leave school at 15 on Friday, walk into a job on Monday and if you didn't like it get a job in the factory next door. In my generation nurses could buy their own homes in London! Bank managers and teachers earned the same amount. Students had no tuition fees and got a grant to study.The very concept of zero hour contracts would be unthinkable. The under 30s just want a few of the advantages I had.
People don't need to see Mr Corbyn as a huge threat and game changer like that if he was PM, because his policies still have to get through not only the opposition, but also his own party. But having a leader like him at least trying for the better, would be hugely better than any Tory power in place. I support Mr Corbyn, and support Britain undertaking electoral reform and democratic socialism. I think coalition government would keep everyone happy. It would settle those concerned with giving the man too much power, and actually let him attempt to propose his changes on the table - to debate it against the wider world for even bigger changes.
I find Will Self annoying as hell, he could say things that would communicate to everyone what he is thinking but instead uses big words as a way to show how intellectually superior he is, he is the epitome of a intellectual snob.
+Kropotkin2000 I agree. I too like Will Self, but he can be a bit naive, like voting Nick Clegg's Lib Dems. One possibility in politics is to lead by principle and any glance at social media or eavesdrop in conversation will tell you that 'the people' are really getting behind Jeremy. Will may need to pull himself outside the bear pit.
Disappointed with Self here. He normally has some good things to say, but I don't think he's quite twigged on to the growing movement that is being created by Corbyn, which will continue to grow, regardless of what the media is telling you, over the next 4 years. He is a credible contender for PM, but we'll just have to wait and see what sort of movement will be created to carry him, because the mass media certainly won't be helping him.
+davidheseltine85 Very true, Self, I used to see regularly as he used to live near me. He is a typical Ivory Tower theoretician, who, in order to satisfy the "urban intellectual" persona, will occassionally pop into Brixton Market on Saturdays in order to be seen with the "grassroots", when in reality he largely cavorts with the 'trendy' urbanised gentry.
Davy Jones-Locker He does seem the type. I've always seen him as someone who has a lot of good things to say, but at the same time he irritates me at times with his occasional air of superiority
Agree with most of the line here but all three fail to mention, perhaps unsurprisingly, the elephant in the room : the neoliberal and right-wing Media.
I hope Will is right and a Labour 'schism' does occur. That will effectively expunge the Blairite/Tories from the real Labour party. The only question remaining will be whether the electorate will be able to discern which party represents their interests amidst the establishment media trying to persuade them that it is the Blairite/Tories they should elect.
Not sure why Will Self gets so much airtime. I went to Brunel University in the early 70's (then an engineering establishment) and am very unhappy when he turns up quoting a Brunel professorship as his credentials. I believe he is a professor of "Modern Thought", he comes across as someone who thinks his thought processes are far superior to anyone else, rather boring.
" A bear comes to live in your house" dehumanisation of your enemies - Parris is a classic Right Wing shit, but where was all these Right Wing pond lives, John Redwood, Matthew Parris , "Call me Dave" Cameron and Gideot Osborne when Gordon Brown bailed out the too big too fail Banks? AWOL. So much for fucking market forces. Parris is the intellectual pygmy in this discussion.
Yes, we have many constitutional problems but that's because Left and Right fight their respective causes on the back of those problems without actually doing anything about them.
If he'd been around post war, he would have said the NHS was an impossibility. Free education, a decent NHS, and renationalised trains are not impossible dreams.
20:20 Hindsight is a wonderful thing: 1. Europe. It keeps threatening to split the party but somehow doesn't 2. Corbyn's leadership. It kept threatening to unravel but somehow never did. 3. And now he sits pretty, stronger, and more popular than ever.
Will Self is not a party man - probably voted UKIP or Conservative last time. Britain as a whole is probably moving further Right but only time will tell.
Looking back on this discussion, it's a classic illustration of what Harold MacMillan said about the most powerful force in politics: "Events, dear boy, events." I wonder how differently things would have panned out if Brexit hadn't come along.
these opinions are no more or less valid than mine or yours the only problem is that this is on national tv , people should stick to thir principles and not be influenced by just another point of view that is not thir own. I believe JC can go all the way.
I think Will was somewhat right watching this in hindsight. Labour and Tories are both parties filled with people of fundamental indifferent views, yet they still all join the same party and try and pretend they like each other and get along. The lab/con 2 party system has caused so much discontent with politics it's no wonder we voters are so fed up.
With all respect to melodramatic Will Self there isn't the same kind of 'shard' stuck in the Labour party over Europe. Apart from a few totally anti-EU MPs, most sections of the party have viewed Europe as an opportunity for social justice and future unity/co-operation. It only became a problem when the labour right started using it as stick to beat Corbyn with. The issue messes with the Tories far more because it's a party made up of both conservative romantic patriots and deranged 'money-rules' minarchists/thatcherites - a far more divisive issue for them. Having said that, Europe is more of an issue now - strangely - after the referendum. It's full-blooded champions are now coming out of the woodwork of both parties after the issue is supposed to be 'in the past'.
What sort of journalism do you call this? An author (great credentials) and a former Tory MP mutually masturbating about the 'impending demise' of a leader (who has attracted 50,000 new members in 5 days of leadership, this following the strongest mandate ever for a Labour party leader), in front of a woman whose journalistic ethics were demonstrated to be non-existent when she lied on national TV about being thrown out of a mosque. Not a single word of disagreement, zero representation of the alternative viewpoint. Hatchet job. Disgraceful. Thumbs down.
Matthew Parris is a tory. He always has been, so to try and stir it up is just a pathetic tory game plan. God knows what Will Self is ranting on about.
Will Self is spot on here, what he says at 5:02 has already come true. He has reached out to all opposite sides of the party and has already severely compromised his views to accommodate the party. On the EU, on the army, on Trident, on Nato, etc.
Davy Jones-Locker indeed, and this is what the hard Left can't deal with. Democracy as long as it goes their way, but not when it doesn't, i.e. this, and all their vitriol at the election result, so many calling it illegitimate or even rigged. Hard Lefties are basically fascists.
I could watch Will Self talk forever. I'm still confident that one of these days I'll understand something he says.
+MrCurry That made me chuckle...
+MrCurry He certainly finds himself interesting.
Buy a dictionary!
+hold the chicken Okay I think we get the message, you are somehow of the vacuous perception that if people arm themselves with an Oxford English Dictionary this will in someway bestow on us full comprehension of the political philosophies and stances of Messrs Parris and Self!? Indeed, only one who himself has a rudimentary grasp of political science would offer such a mediocre suggestion.
Davy Jones-Locker
no just that if you can't understand what he's saying, look the words up, it helps to make better sense of it, and improve oneself all at the same time, rather than moaning that they can't understand what he says.
conservative who hates corbyn vs labour supporter who thinks corbyn is unelectable? i hope (and im 99% sure) that everybody can see how ridiculously bias channel 4 is.. i actually feel embarrassed for them watching this lol
+Crystal Method Only today have I fully realised how absolutely terrified they all are.
Ch4 is a liberal cess pit. Just cos corbynistas are thick as thieves doesn't change that.
Crystal Method biased, not bias.
This was like watching your gran and grandad try to tell you about that "new fangled internets". Could they be any more out of touch?
+shamanahaboolist the London Establishment bubble. I AM a grandmother but I'm streets ahead of them. They can't get their thinking out of the old paradigm.
HitMeQuick
My gran was probably right about a lot of things too.... but not on subjects she had no fucking idea about or some obvious cognitive bias over.
My analogy still stands.
rhiannonhill
Haha! Boom!
I'm afraid they're pretty much spot on. A schism in Labour is very likely, but that might cause the tory party to break up soon afterwards. However there will be an interim period where the electoral performance of Labour will be very poor. It won't last more than a decade though - radical conservatism does not represent the majority of the UK voters so it can't last long. Another 2-3 parliaments at most.
We must not confuse engagement with the radical left in our social bubble with ideological dominance over the entire country.
this tory government has been smashing the poor and vulnerable to bits and yet it all seems to come across as a game to the smug, rich, sneering will self.
so true
Go back to your student campus you crusty urchin
+kurt gerstein Fuck the poor and fuck the vulnerable. Most of them are victims of their own loser mentalities.
+MassMurdering Mao on a lighter note, ann margret was an absolute babe.
+MassMurdering Mao Not so sure about that. Economics isn't only dismal but also to an extent mysterious. And nothing works unless there are poor and vulnerable people, to support the value of money.
if corbyn is a joke why are they attacking him so much ?
+Mulberry2000 Bingo,
Because it's a hilarious spectacle
+Mulberry2000 You answered your own question.
Because he is such a good target. The man is a complete joke.
He wasn't saying he is a joke, he's subtly saying the establishment would never allow him to be Prime Minister with his morals and views.
And he was right, it's dumb people in this country that don't understand simple stuff that have brought us to where we are
I don't get Will Self sometimes. In fact I was sure in the other clip with McTernan he kind of said he was not opting for Jeremy Corbyn, while here it turns out he actually voted for him. Along with the fact that he talks in such obscure and confusing language. A couple of jokers here in all honesty, showing just how out of touch they are really.
'
+Jack Beltran obvious when you think about it.
+Jack Beltran You got to be kidding me?
?
Davy Jones-Locker why do you think im joking?
Self is far removed from the ordinary working man & woman! He’s arrogance and myopic view of the electorate reflects why the Labour Party lost so badly!
And yet the Sun slaves and middle class snobs voted the extremely wealthy Alexander Boris de Pfeffel in. The Irony
Can someone explain to me what Mr Self is talking about please
The Parliamentary Labour Party is being set up as an obstacle to Corbyn's Leadership, but Corbyn has 60% members' support so even a head to head challenge is almost bound to fail (if even get off the ground). Corbyn will form a consensus from membership on revised fundamental policies and each Labour MP will have to ask themselves if they're in the right political party....There's no shortage of prospective candidates from the 60% of membership.
+Iazzaboyce Spot on.
"There's no shortage of prospective candidates from the 60% of membership."
Ah the dedicated party loyalists. Some of them have spent up to £3 pounds and the best 3 weeks of their lives on this great historic movement. Some of them have even promised to stop voting for the Greens!
In a sense you are right. If labour were dumb enough to "sell voting shares" in their party for 3 quid a pop then they have got everything they deserve.
The MPs at Westminster first an foremost owe their loyalty to the constituents that elected them. They have been given a mandate. That occurred before Corbyn's radical gear shift.
***** A political party must develop policy to avoid becoming stuck in the past.
+James Watker That is what all political parties do. Donators or membership fees its all the same. People paying money to influence politics. I haven't looked at each individual MP's campaign literature but most labour would have spouted anti tory rhetoric and standing up to the tories hence their constituents aren't being ignored. To my knowledge no labour contender put in his campaign to stand up to left wing views which they themselves are supposed to hold.
+Iazzaboyce Yes we wouldn't want things to go back to the eighties, with a tory government tearing away the priveleges of the citizens ad handing them over to big business. Or incompetently running things so that they can sell them to their friends in the city at a cheap price. Or attacking the poorest of society while giving tax cuts to the rich. Your right the Tories do have to stop looking to the past for their political policies.
Oh I remember Parris in the 1980s when he did a 'stint' on the dole for a week. He couldn't manage on the amount of dole he was given, but said he thought it was still a good idea. Luckily for him he had a well-paid job and a nice bank balance to go back to. Hypocrite.
Yes -- exactly- I remember that too. Parris banging on in true Tory fashion about the working class living the life of Riley on benefits. I think this blinkered privileged idiot couldn’t last more than 4 days , before he decided to access his personal bank account. The only thing I like about this Tory elite dimwit , is that he came out as gay ! Clear off you soft spoken privately educated moron .
Will Self is an out of touch intellectual.
I didnt put it that polite brian
But yes he like the corbynated chicken has reached the stage where he belives his own bullshit
Much better clown bozo the clown boris
Getting 3 people with absurd opinions together to pontificate total rubbish devoid of all connection to reality again Cathy?
Well good to see you are consistent.
What makes me laugh about all this media business trying shift the overton window to the right and posturing that Corbyn's unelectable / has impossible policies, is that not a SINGLE person offering this opinion puts up even a sniff of reasoning, let alone valid logical reasoning, as to why that is the case.
That's when you know these people are talking total shite. People who really have a point are quick to support their assertions as best they can.
Reading the comments of corbyn delusionsts here is beyond entertaining, it's actually quite worrying to see how many people haven't got a clue about how the political system works, the rules of it or the dynamics. I challenge anyone here to argue against any of the points Parris or Self spoke hereof. All I see is pooh slinging without any hint of reason.
hold the chicken Can you even identify a point that was made by Parris or Self that wasn't an ad hominem or just an assertion with no reason?
I didn't notice a single valid point made by either of them.
*****
all of them
hold the chicken Sorry bud there wasn't a single valid point. You clearly don't have any idea what a fact is.
*****
give me one
I like Will Self, but I'm confident that he has it completely wrong here.
The problem (in a good way) with the Blairites is that they're really quite spineless, and they don't have a natural leader amongst them to lead them to any sort of split or put up a challenge to Corbyn.
For the short term, they'll grumble, look a bit sullen, throw around some veiled threats and ultimatums--and then meekly fall in line.
Corbyn isn't the disaster they imagine him to be. The reported chaos is a mostly a lot of media noise. In the broader scheme of things, most people don't give a damn or aren't even aware of the supposed fuss. Things will settle down, and the PLP will learn to accept Corbyn sooner rather than later.
Well he was right. 3 years on and we have the independent group - 8 former labour, 3 former Tory.
This post hasn't aged well.
The tin foil hat brigade bang on about the Jewish conspiracy then rich Jewish people who own the papers smear him because they don't want him in power, the irony.
I voted to elect Corbyn as leader and I don't even want him, I realised he was a champaign Socialist and to be honest I now think he is a closet Communist.
That didn't go well, did it ? Labour have just crashed to their worst defeat since 1935 and have lost seats they have held for 100 years.
If a bear came to live in MY house, I'd be concerned he'd find my secret stash of honey.
Or marmalade
What if people had said 'Its impossible' with regard to slavery, womans equality etc. Fact is normal people are upset with politics as it is and no amount of comment from pundits is going to make them feel better.
+Squelch133 Good point. They also all said Corbyn was a 200:1 outsider who would come last in the leadership election, but he won a landslide with more votes than all his rivals combined. And he attracted hundreds of thousands of new supporters to the Labour Party. They just don't understand how hungry people are for some real change and a principle politician who will keep his word.
We had this rubbish in the 70s and 80s and the nation doesnt want to go back there.
Well Hold the chicken, Corbyn seems to be bringing new arguments. Examples: He is pro technology industry and pro womens lib. He also seems to want to be positive. Can you join us in some positivity?
+hold the chicken Well, evidently, you have no issue in "going back to the 70s" judging by your fascination with 1970s Jack Nicholson movie clips! Hmm, "you can't handle the truth"?!
+hold the chicken Well, evidently, you have no issue in "going back to the 70s" judging by your fascination with 1970s Jack Nicholson movie clips! Hmm, "you can't handle the truth"?!
Matthew Parris' infantile insults were as follows: "It's remarkably difficult to think of anything interesting to say, about his arrival. It's like a bear comes to live in your house and you can argue will his claws tear the sofa? Where will the bear poo? What happens if people come to dinner? The fact is it's a bear- that's all there is to be said". Absolutely pathetic performance from Matthew Parris.
+Jonathan Notley It's because Parris is really quite an intellectual midget.
+Kropotkin2000 he is, after all, a tory
Parris has it spot on. I just spend 6 excruciating minutes listening to Corbyn tie himself in knots trying to answer a question about the ceremonial requirements of joining the Privy Council. He can't help himself. It's the agony of compromise.
James Watker There was nothing wrong with the reply he made. Quite understandable that he should be hesitant given his republican sentiments. It was more than reasonable to want to find out more about the process first.
It also transpires that the premise of the question was nonsense. The ceremony does not involve kneeling and kissing the Queen's hand.
He tried everything; flirty glance, wee joke, dog ate my homework (the letter hasn't arrived), getting twitchy, stony silence, pompous lecture on the ills of society, avoiding personal culpability (I have to discuss it with my colleagues) and eventually admitting he wasn't prepared to answer. Which he couldn't have done in 5 seconds. All that for a question of protocol.
"It also transpires that the premise of the question was nonsense. "
Not really the point. A future PM has to answer many speculative questions that later turn out to be false.
As Parris said bears will be bears.
I have never voted in 35 years. In 5 years time I will vote for Corbyn. I earn over £100,000 a year. I hope he raises taxes on land owners, corporations and high earners. I am fine with paying my share to a government who will do something other than give it to themselves and their mates.
If you were being honest, which you clearly aren't - that worked out well didn't it? You've done nothing but enable the Tories.
Matthew Parris: 'We could have the labour parliamentary party in a civil war with its membership'.
Well played old boy.
The fact that a man with views so diametrically apposed to the party's members of parliament is now their leader perfectly illustrates the benefits electing a new leader by its members of parliament rather than its members. Labour members voted a leader for them, not the electorate. Its the closest act of political self-immolation I have ever seen in British polotics
Facile non-point. As for your conclusion: you'll no doubt stake your house and all its contents against a Labour victory with a bookmaker at the next general election, then.
The fact is the Party has at long last reacquainted with its grass roots support.
Clive Lewis the shadow secretary said during the Labour Party Conference . The debate about neo-liberal policies is now on after 35 years, the jury is in.
"Neoliberalism was an infant economic theory, so a lot people were taking it on trust and saying: ‘OK, let’s try this.’ But now we’ve had 35 years of it, and we don’t have a shareholder democracy; corporations have bought those shares out. We don’t have people owning their own home; a large percentage are renting and 40% of homes are now buy-to-let, in many cases owned by Rachmanesque landlords. So things have changed. People in the 1980s went to university and came out and got a decent job, but they see their children with thirty to forty to fifty thousand pounds’ worth of debt and working in Costa. So people are beginning to realise - This. Isn’t. Working.”
Again, spot on.
Will Self often amuses me about how wrong he is. I like the way he put's together a sentence and everything but this is a man who voted liberal for God sake. How politically naive could one man be?
He takes his highly privileged culturally aloof social circle as somehow a microcosm of British popular opinion! Will self is the epitomy of the middle class classists, who have taken the labor party over at the expense of the traditional "working class" for whom Peeps like Will Self barely conceal their despisement off!
puts
The slow creep towards fascism, which was inevitable under the Blairites, has finished.
I wish people would stop saying "Europe" when they mean "EU". Little things like that are going to be bad for the image of the NO campaign. Anti-EU people have nothing against Europe. In fact, they are pro Europe and simply want a return to national sovereignty and democracy for all countries within the continent.
Yet Scottish or Welsh independance is not a priority?
I'm not a big fan of Self, or Parris, but I have to admit that both of their analyses about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership turned out to be quite accurate
He's a vile character, as Alan Johnson said, he couldn't lead the working classes out of a paper bag.
@@ChrisPatrick-q6k What exactly is vile about him? As someone from his constituency I think precisely the opposite he is too good for this country, his morale character is unshakeable in a field full of crooks and Machiavellian's?
I'm glad channel 4 have opened up a great unbiased debate again, representing many different points of view....
I'm from the United States, and I've only recently stumbled across this Jeremy Corbyn fella, due to parallels that have been drawn between him and Bernie Sanders. It's interesting to see how incredibly similar political discourse the world over seems to be these days. Your media is about as worthless as ours. A bunch of billionaire funded opinion shows which express billionaire opinions packaged as news.
It's time to take things back! You've made a great stride in the UK, and hopefully we can make that same move here in the US. Politics has never been such a circus.
+Bigbadd Woofe Hitlary must be stopped! We need politicians that belong to the people not the billionaires.
+Bigbadd Woofe Murdoch who owns FOX in USA, owns most of the fucking media over here. That's why our media is as worthless as yours. I don't know what it's like over there but most of the cunts over here don't realise they are swallowing propaganda everyday and lapping it up. The media here is trying to destroy Corbyn, the twats who read the papers and watch SKY will believe every fucking word!
You know what. When you are at school over here you get educated on the British Empire and WW2 when we were great and all that bollocks. Whilst they are educating you on how evil the Nazi's were one of the main things they go on about is evil Goebbels with his evil propaganda making the German people thing the nazi cause was righteous etc. So you grow up thinking "ooh propaganda is bad" those bloody Nazis. All the while you are being fed hardcore propaganda from the government and media but you don't even realise. The main tabloid over here The Sun (has biggest circulation) comes across all matey and family. Yet it insidiously makes people bias to the people in powers aims.
+Bigbadd Woofe you should probably read what he said about bin laden as well.....
ericoulthwaite Murdock is literally destroying the world, slowly but surely. Thankfully even conservatives are starting to pull away from Fox news nowadays. They call Bill O'Reilly and Chris Wallace 'Commie Socialists' lmao! Neocons and Neolibs are both fucking CRAZY! I hate all of the overly sensitive PC bullshit from the neolibs, and I hate everything about Neocons (not the people, only their philosophy).
Here in America we are brainwashed to believe that this is the only decent country to live in in the world (at least that was my experience). It wasn't til I was in my mid-teens that they started teaching otherwise. I thought the whole world outside of America was some kind of 3rd world hell when I was young. Like America was the white knight in a world of evil.
In the process of killing Communism, Fascism has grown slowly and gently into the monster we are experiencing today. It is not raw and pure, but it is the backbone of modern day political discourse. We will take it back, Comrade ;)
All this media binge on anti Corbyn is making the despicable Conservative welfare and union voting bills pale to insignficance.......but gives us more reason to want Corbyn.
Are you a NON Labour party voter?
I voted to elect Corbyn as leader and I don't even want him, I realised he was a champaign Socialist and to be honest I now think he is a closet Communist.
You should look up the word communist. He will destroy this country and it will never be the same again. You’re an idiot.
lol, and look now
A Labor supporter that voted for Corbyn just to stir things up and a Tory. Seeing as Channel 4 is publicly owned I would have expected a little more impartiality.
Matthew Parris said that opinions of voters in Clacton should be ignored because they were thick. The guy is an intellectual snob.
It's extraordinary that a party leader who talks about the very real economic difficulties that so many people face is considered so 'out there' and inappropriate by Matthew Parris that he's compared with a bear in your living room.
Were you willingly blind? Corbyn was an incompetent eccentric, totally out of touch with the electorate. It's one thing to "talk about" the challenges facing people, but it's quite another thing to produce something credible to tackle those problems. Corbyn failed spectacularly. Perhaps the lesson for yourself is to question why you're so gullible and have such poor judgement.
Corbyn for PM! He's got my vote and I've never voted Labour before.
You can't argue with stupid
Will Self, a walking advert for why you should supplement your diet with vitamins.
I really want to like Will Self. But I cant.
Could we re-make The Trip with Will Self and Matthew Parris?
This whole interview seems rather prescient, given the events of the past week.
He'll won't be checked out by the end of the month that's for sure. It depends on how much he listens to the people around him and I think he will. First day in parliament - new suit... Even though he doesn't look comfortable in it, he wore it.
Outsiders can win: the US could vote for Trump, the brits for Corbyn.
So this is what it must be like to watch Bill O'Reilly in the UK. A bunch of really polite SOUNDING people saying rude and obnoxious things about candidates they dont like without backing it up with any data. At least they aren't blaming black people for enabling candidates like Corbyn to rise in the polls even briefly; I guess that's a small improvement over O'Reilly.
Will Self is toxic. In attempting to argue with Michael Gove on Question Time he was way out of his depth.
Many Thanks Channel 4 for uploading this item, I don't own a TV and heard about this interview on the radio.
It's fun now watching all the establishment "journalists" and "experts" being completely wrong while completely sure of themselves. Take a look at yourselves. Really - here you were. You said this crap. Think about what you've done with your lives. Think about who you've turned into.
*I didn't notice the upload date, and thought they were talking about the 2019 election results!*
You and me both!
And me!
Yes me too. Scary!
Corbyn was like a huge populist flywheel that was happy to gently spin at 200 RPM, protesting, slyly hissing. But the centre ground are ultimately in charge in the control room, and they spun him up beyond his 900 rpm limit, and he broke up.
both guests are TV propaganda entertainers.
the nerve of CH4 to think either of these insignificant individuals could have any bearing on ppl's political thoughts is insulting.
isn't it nice that you can have two intelligent people with opposing views, actually having an enlightening and mutually-receptive conversation. you don't see that often on british television do you.
Where were these two in the midst of Johnson/Truss debacle?
Today is 3 days after the 2017 election - how utterly wrong these establishment talking heads turned out to be! Their pontifications will never have more than a marginal credibility from this day onward.
Yet a large part of the reason for the outcome of the 2017 GE was self inflicted problems within the Conservative party, which Will and Matthew would be hard pressed to have predicted.
The central thesis stood up quite well. Corbyn has remained unpopular within the PLP and the membership sent him back to be leader again. They probably underestimated or misjudged Corbyn. He isn't a bear, he's a stubborn old goat with a tough hide who doesn't quit.
The possibility of an existential crisis has not gone away. Even if they've had to admit the perfectly obvious, that he is a bloody good campaign speaker and rally style campaigner, even if he is a hopeless party leader, many mainstream Labour MPs still hold political views which don't chime too closely with those of Corbyn. They will fight for what they believe and oppose Corbyn still. I can't see them sitting back and quietly acquiescing to a permanent takeover by the left of the party. Even if they fail in the short term and Jeremy becomes PM, the ensuing chaos will only serve to retoxify the labour brand for decades and hasten the formation of a new centre party.
If the reason had been due to self inflicted damage by the Conservative party, why was a landslide still being predicted right up until the exit poll? It should have been more obvious. The snap election was widely applauded at the time as a shrewd move which would wipe out Labour for a generation leaving them with less than 100 seats.
Corbyn's unpopularity within (part of) the PLP might be because they *perceived* him as unelectable - though I admit some are ideologically opposed to him and shouldn't be in the Labour party.
Once every few generations there is a sea change in political ideologies within the population. People who have lost out demand change. So long as neo-liberalism delivered people were happy to vote for right wing governments such as New Labour (I say right wing because I lived through Ted Heath's Conservative government and New Labour was to far to the right of them). Problem for the Tories is that the under 30s see themselves worse off - there will be a swing to the left just as there was in the 60s for demographic reasons if nothing else.
My generation could leave school at 15 on Friday, walk into a job on Monday and if you didn't like it get a job in the factory next door. In my generation nurses could buy their own homes in London! Bank managers and teachers earned the same amount. Students had no tuition fees and got a grant to study.The very concept of zero hour contracts would be unthinkable. The under 30s just want a few of the advantages I had.
lol
People don't need to see Mr Corbyn as a huge threat and game changer like that if he was PM, because his policies still have to get through not only the opposition, but also his own party. But having a leader like him at least trying for the better, would be hugely better than any Tory power in place. I support Mr Corbyn, and support Britain undertaking electoral reform and democratic socialism.
I think coalition government would keep everyone happy. It would settle those concerned with giving the man too much power, and actually let him attempt to propose his changes on the table - to debate it against the wider world for even bigger changes.
I find Will Self annoying as hell, he could say things that would communicate to everyone what he is thinking but instead uses big words as a way to show how intellectually superior he is, he is the epitome of a intellectual snob.
Goodness me how right they were.
+Kropotkin2000 I agree. I too like Will Self, but he can be a bit naive, like voting Nick Clegg's Lib Dems. One possibility in politics is to lead by principle and any glance at social media or eavesdrop in conversation will tell you that 'the people' are really getting behind Jeremy. Will may need to pull himself outside the bear pit.
both totally sneering
Disappointed with Self here. He normally has some good things to say, but I don't think he's quite twigged on to the growing movement that is being created by Corbyn, which will continue to grow, regardless of what the media is telling you, over the next 4 years. He is a credible contender for PM, but we'll just have to wait and see what sort of movement will be created to carry him, because the mass media certainly won't be helping him.
+davidheseltine85 Very true, Self, I used to see regularly as he used to live near me. He is a typical Ivory Tower theoretician, who, in order to satisfy the "urban intellectual" persona, will occassionally pop into Brixton Market on Saturdays in order to be seen with the "grassroots", when in reality he largely cavorts with the 'trendy' urbanised gentry.
Davy Jones-Locker He does seem the type. I've always seen him as someone who has a lot of good things to say, but at the same time he irritates me at times with his occasional air of superiority
I got fluff on my cock that has more influence than Will self
Love Will...talks so much sense.
Agree with most of the line here but all three fail to mention, perhaps unsurprisingly, the elephant in the room : the neoliberal and right-wing Media.
Well, Will Self certainly got what he wanted. Total chaos within the Labour party along with humiliation and UTTER DEFEAT. Perfect result!
I hope Will is right and a Labour 'schism' does occur. That will effectively expunge the Blairite/Tories from the real Labour party. The only question remaining will be whether the electorate will be able to discern which party represents their interests amidst the establishment media trying to persuade them that it is the Blairite/Tories they should elect.
Nah, it's gone the other way. And we will be better for it.
Not sure why Will Self gets so much airtime. I went to Brunel University in the early 70's (then an engineering establishment) and am very unhappy when he turns up quoting a Brunel professorship as his credentials. I believe he is a professor of "Modern Thought", he comes across as someone who thinks his thought processes are far superior to anyone else, rather boring.
Matthew is a good man
" A bear comes to live in your house" dehumanisation of your enemies - Parris is a classic Right Wing shit, but where was all these Right Wing pond lives, John Redwood, Matthew Parris , "Call me Dave" Cameron and Gideot Osborne when Gordon Brown bailed out the too big too fail Banks? AWOL. So much for fucking market forces. Parris is the intellectual pygmy in this discussion.
Spot on.
Yes, we have many constitutional problems but that's because Left and Right fight their respective causes on the back of those problems without actually doing anything about them.
It would really be helpful if these clips were dated as to when they actually took place. Why not, is this so impossible?
He's still leader guys despite your 'self-satisfied predictions' uttered on Channel 4 News all those wearying months ago.
Same as stu, I thought this was recent.
If he'd been around post war, he would have said the NHS was an impossibility. Free education, a decent NHS, and renationalised trains are not impossible dreams.
20:20 Hindsight is a wonderful thing:
1. Europe. It keeps threatening to split the party but somehow doesn't
2. Corbyn's leadership. It kept threatening to unravel but somehow never did.
3. And now he sits pretty, stronger, and more popular than ever.
Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Want to update your thoughts on this?
Oh dear oh dear
Hmm, 2018 now and he's still here.
Will Self is no profosser,he's a novelist and recovering drug addict
Still smarter than you though it seems.
Will Self is not a party man - probably voted UKIP or Conservative last time. Britain as a whole is probably moving further Right but only time will tell.
Almost 3 years on , still there ..JC4PM , won't be long now .
I year on.... JC RIP
well Mr Corbyn tore theresa mays majority to shreds and shat all over the press.My kind of teddy bear
If a bear wanted to live in my house I would be more worried about getting eaten arse first
And 4 years on
Channel 4 'news'.
I bet they’re both feeling really daft right about now.
Looking back on this discussion, it's a classic illustration of what Harold MacMillan said about the most powerful force in politics: "Events, dear boy, events." I wonder how differently things would have panned out if Brexit hadn't come along.
always interesting looking back
The irrelevance of making predictions, eh...
these opinions are no more or less valid than mine or yours the only problem is that this is on national tv , people should stick to thir principles and not be influenced by just another point of view that is not thir own. I believe JC can go all the way.
You cant win this time murdoch. Corbyn is one fine gentleman we could ever have.(channel 4's shamefull journalism)
What a difference 2 years has made
what a difference another 2 years make.... eh?
And yet one year later here we are../
And another ...
"I wonder whether he will last the month." :)
Lang Jones I bet Labour wish he hadn’t.
I think Will was somewhat right watching this in hindsight. Labour and Tories are both parties filled with people of fundamental indifferent views, yet they still all join the same party and try and pretend they like each other and get along. The lab/con 2 party system has caused so much discontent with politics it's no wonder we voters are so fed up.
I thought these comments were about the recent election until I saw the date posted!!!!!! Scary.
Same here! I took a few minutes to realise how old this clip is!😂
And so.. It has come to pass...
Well u got it wrong Will Dracula 🧛♂️
He said corbyn winning was impossible. So he was right.
With all respect to melodramatic Will Self there isn't the same kind of 'shard' stuck in the Labour party over Europe. Apart from a few totally anti-EU MPs, most sections of the party have viewed Europe as an opportunity for social justice and future unity/co-operation. It only became a problem when the labour right started using it as stick to beat Corbyn with. The issue messes with the Tories far more because it's a party made up of both conservative romantic patriots and deranged 'money-rules' minarchists/thatcherites - a far more divisive issue for them. Having said that, Europe is more of an issue now - strangely - after the referendum. It's full-blooded champions are now coming out of the woodwork of both parties after the issue is supposed to be 'in the past'.
the sad thing about Jeremy he does not fit the narrative set out by the rich and he will suffer rubbish such as this
Self strangely sucking up to Paris
I am disappointed by this display of biased journalism.
Ah - well, that all worked-out as they predicted. Not.
What sort of journalism do you call this?
An author (great credentials) and a former Tory MP mutually masturbating about the 'impending demise' of a leader (who has attracted 50,000 new members in 5 days of leadership, this following the strongest mandate ever for a Labour party leader), in front of a woman whose journalistic ethics were demonstrated to be non-existent when she lied on national TV about being thrown out of a mosque.
Not a single word of disagreement, zero representation of the alternative viewpoint.
Hatchet job. Disgraceful. Thumbs down.
Matthew Parris is a tory. He always has been, so to try and stir it up is just a pathetic tory game plan.
God knows what Will Self is ranting on about.
Corbyn as prime minister ? 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🥸🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🥸🥸🥸🥸🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤩🤩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩
he's a bear.
can you explain?
he is just a bear....
So what youre saying is....
Six months later he's doing fine.
And twenty-seven months ...
Will Self is spot on here, what he says at 5:02 has already come true. He has reached out to all opposite sides of the party and has already severely compromised his views to accommodate the party. On the EU, on the army, on Trident, on Nato, etc.
+hold the chicken Has he "compromised" though, or let democracy run its course?
+hold the chicken Has he "compromised" though, or let democracy run its course?
Davy Jones-Locker
indeed, and this is what the hard Left can't deal with. Democracy as long as it goes their way, but not when it doesn't, i.e. this, and all their vitriol at the election result, so many calling it illegitimate or even rigged. Hard Lefties are basically fascists.
This wasn't balanced. Nuff said.