The k group is the one for me that hits the artistic reach for the time period. The live album representing this period is other worldly. Good series and thank you for bringing the works front and center for the uninitiated as well as the initiated.
Good to have some intelligent commentary on Peter Hammill's albums. Although I appreciate Guy Evans' drumming, I certainly wouldn't call him "one of the best drummers in the world". My favourite of Hammill's 80s albums is PATIENCE, which I think is structurally top-notch. None of the songs outstays its welcome, lyrics are emotional and often philosophical at one and the same time, vocal delivery is superb, and the melodic content is memorable on every song. It's the perfect album to engage the interest of newcomers to Hammill's oeuvre. None of his other 80s albums maintains such a high level of songwriting throughout. SITTING TARGETS has its highpoints ('Stranger Still' and particularly 'Ophelia'), SKIN gives us the wonderfully clever and poignant 'Shell'. I have to say, A BLACK BOX (released in 1980, so should be in your list) was a very, very tough act to follow, and the epic 'Flight' is, in my opinion, Peter Hammill's magnum opus - a towering achievement fusing complex lyrics, sublime melodies and inventive rhythms, and an awesome sense of drama.
I think it’s easy to get fixated on the plainness of “And Close as This” - when it has some of the best recorded of his piano songs (Too Many of my Yesterdays) and surprising depth with tunes like Silver and Confidence. But honestly I think the strength of the first half of the decade overpowers any slippage later on. I sometimes obstinately call the 80s the best decade but sometimes I actually mean it.
Such great insights into some albums which harder to get into than the classic seventies period. Some of the early albums were too hard to find back in the early eighties so I heard many of these albums before I heard Silent Corner or Chameleon. Vinyl was dying simultaneously with prog’s last rites and not much was yet available on compact disk. Dark times indeed
Yeah I had the luxury of binge-buying everything over a few months and I suppose if I'd had to put more effort into finding them I might be fonder of some of them. Living in an age of plenty I do sometimes romanticize the greater value I remember placing on music when it was harder to get, but the grass is always greener.
The studio version on Sitting Targets of Empress's Clothes is one of my absolute favourite of pH's songs. In the same vein I also adore Accidents from Enter K also never equalled live. But I really like pH and done a long. Now to the 90s :)
Abstract philosophical material is what got me into PH in the first place, so Enter K is my fav, with Patience close behind. Patience and STs are close behind, with everything else further down the list, though 'Hemlock World' is one of my very fav PH songs.
Love the video, but I reckon 'Happy Hour' from 'Enter K' is one of the finest closers he ever did (along with 'Sleepwalkers' and 'Childlike Faith in Childhood's End' from the Van Der Graaf Generator records)! An ideal start to any night out in a public house...!
Great video! I just discovered your channel this morning. It's nice to see someone concentrating on the genius of Peter Hammill. PH/VdGG and then the rest of the great prog artists for many of us. I see you also have Camel on tap so you definitely have a a new sub! Good luck with your channel! ✌️PH and prog🎧🎸
You’re a little older than me (so you’ve been exposed to the 80’s more) but I find the 80’s production from In a Foreign Town so incredibly over the top that it has a weird positive clash with Hammill’s vocals, giving it a novel effect. Still respect your opinion though and I’m loving EBES from what I’ve heard.
I actually really like that perspective on Foreign Town and it makes me want to go back and listen to it again with that thought in mind! Thanks for checking the tunes out.
'In a foreign town': The worst production, and the worst songs, too (except Hemlock, Sci-finance revisited, Time to burn and The play's the thing')! Also the worst cover!!
This was really an unexpected ranking, but still interesting you hear your take on it. I'd go: 1. Patience 2. And close as this 3. Enter K (a long gap) 4. Sitting targets (a looong gap) 5. Out of water 6. Loops & Reels 7. Skin 8. In a Foreign Town 9. Spur of the moment
You're welcome. I'm looking forward to you going into ... like, uncharted territory. One thing that struck me watching this: has he ever done "Now lover" live? I've actually never heard of a live version. (And if not, why? I wouldn't mind hearing the reformed VdGG take that one on.) Also: Will you be including the Isildurs Bane albums? I hope you do.
@@outernothingness1177 I agree that it would be cool to hear Van der Graaf take it on, though perhaps a bit less so without Jackson. I filmed this before the new Isildur's Bane came out (I'd never done any video editing before this and it's taken awhile to learn despite the quite rudimentary nature of the videos) so I should probably do a supplement for that one.
Here's my ranking...i needed time to listen again to every album with caution : the first place is for me a surprise...i had a quite boring souvenir of this album, ut a few years after my opinion have changed) 1. And close as this (once again, i realise i love this album, that i thought monotonous, so this is a kind of revelation) 2. Patience (i'm not a k group fan but this album is really beautiful) 3. Loops and reels (for the masterpieces "A ritual mask", "Moebius loop" and "My pulse") 4. Out of water (the two last songs are magnificent) 5. Sitting targets (not my favourite, by far...) 6. In a foreign town (two or three wonderful songs, the rest is decent) 7. Enter K ( not my cup of tea) 8. Skin (oh my god i really think Hammill was tired...) 9. Spur of the moment
@@marchersant5758 Ha! Yeah I see what you mean about Skin. I'll have to give Close as This some more attention. It's the only album of his that I never got a hard copy of because for some reason it's out of print and maybe that's biasing me against it.
Interesting perspectives ... I often cite Film Noir as an example of perfection in 4/4 rock drumming equal to Back In Black, and the Ellis's guitar solo is just outrageous, especially his use of a wah pedal. Ellis also did some really interesting stuff with an E-bow on the tour supporting Marillion in 1983 ...
I'll go back to that song in particular then! Since the comments for this one I've really been wondering if I've been underrating Patience in particular. I just picked up a vinyl copy, maybe I'll sit with it for a bit this evening.
“Backburner” as a verb. “Backburnerd” I’m not sure. I kind of like it. Great reviews, great introductions to Hammill’s solo work, much of which I’m unfamiliar with.
Not 100% sure - but I might rate 'Happy Hour" as my favorite song by Hammill in the 80's. Seen VdGG/PH over a dozen times and a fan since nearly the beginning. Great work - you haven't devoted any videos to VdGG - interesting.
Since I've done the videos it's interesting to see how many people like Happy Hour -- I'll have to give that one more thought. I love VDGG as much as anything but I just wasn't sure I had much original to say about them, whereas there's a lot less attention to the mid-to-late Hammill.
In response to your 70s and 80s Hammill album reviews will share personal rankings after figuring them out. I appreciate that your rankings are essentially objective taking the albums at face value. For me it’s hard to ignore external aspects i.e. Hammill’s relationship to VDGG personnel, his de facto band; his changing age and the shifts in energy and intellectual perspective that brings; the eventual willingness to (comparatively) tailor to the market. I mean at one point one does wish to see some revenue for work. These things are partly responsible for choices in his craft and consequently hard to tease out from an assessment of the work. But I’ll try.
I suppose The rankings are a blend of objective and subjective in ways which are quite hard to distinguish. Interested in hearing how they shake out for you!
Btw I see a triad composed of Hammill, Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush. Apart from the early Charisma years of Genesis and VDGG, Hammill has guested on Gabriel albums and reciprocally had Gabriel on or involved with his as has Kate Bush with Gabriel. Pretty sure IAFT was Gail Force Mgt. too. Hammill and Bush though, to me, are more kindred in their philosophically imbued writing and idiosyncratic vocal stretching. At least in their classic work.
That idea of the triad makes a lot of sense to me. I heard the PG solo albums years before I knew who Hammill was an it was an interesting discovery to see him in the liner notes years later.
some good tracks in the 80s but I can't handle the horrible dated production for most of it. I can get by with a homemade compilation of the best tracks and be good.
Loops and reels better than And close as this ... Out of water and Skin better than the K group...you loose all credibility and i could'nt listen to your critics
With such a vast discography, it's easy to get a bit confused, so that doesn't matter at all. Huge respect for this guy to dwell deeply into the work of this genius and when he prefers other albums like you (or even most fans), that's his personal opinion and it's as valid as others. Everyone hears music differently. With every artist, there are people that love the albums which are generally considered as their worst.
I could listen to nothing but VDG and Hamill albums the rest of my life and feel fulfilled
Sitting Targets kicks ass. I love that record. I used to play either "Sign" or the title track at every one of my gigs.
Awesome!
The k group is the one for me that hits the artistic reach for the time period. The live album representing this period is other worldly. Good series and thank you for bringing the works front and center for the uninitiated as well as the initiated.
That live album is amazing, yes... I've been meaning to do the live albums eventually.
Good to have some intelligent commentary on Peter Hammill's albums. Although I appreciate Guy Evans' drumming, I certainly wouldn't call him "one of the best drummers in the world". My favourite of Hammill's 80s albums is PATIENCE, which I think is structurally top-notch. None of the songs outstays its welcome, lyrics are emotional and often philosophical at one and the same time, vocal delivery is superb, and the melodic content is memorable on every song. It's the perfect album to engage the interest of newcomers to Hammill's oeuvre. None of his other 80s albums maintains such a high level of songwriting throughout. SITTING TARGETS has its highpoints ('Stranger Still' and particularly 'Ophelia'), SKIN gives us the wonderfully clever and poignant 'Shell'. I have to say, A BLACK BOX (released in 1980, so should be in your list) was a very, very tough act to follow, and the epic 'Flight' is, in my opinion, Peter Hammill's magnum opus - a towering achievement fusing complex lyrics, sublime melodies and inventive rhythms, and an awesome sense of drama.
Just getting into solo Hammill (yeah I know..) after being a long time VDGG fan. These videos are great primers. Thanks!
Awesome, glad they're helpful!
I think it’s easy to get fixated on the plainness of “And Close as This” - when it has some of the best recorded of his piano songs (Too Many of my Yesterdays) and surprising depth with tunes like Silver and Confidence.
But honestly I think the strength of the first half of the decade overpowers any slippage later on. I sometimes obstinately call the 80s the best decade but sometimes I actually mean it.
I touched on this a bit in the response to comments video, I think. I agree with you.
Such great insights into some albums which harder to get into than the classic seventies period. Some of the early albums were too hard to find back in the early eighties so I heard many of these albums before I heard Silent Corner or Chameleon. Vinyl was dying simultaneously with prog’s last rites and not much was yet available on compact disk. Dark times indeed
Yeah I had the luxury of binge-buying everything over a few months and I suppose if I'd had to put more effort into finding them I might be fonder of some of them. Living in an age of plenty I do sometimes romanticize the greater value I remember placing on music when it was harder to get, but the grass is always greener.
The studio version on Sitting Targets of Empress's Clothes is one of my absolute favourite of pH's songs. In the same vein I also adore Accidents from Enter K also never equalled live. But I really like pH and done a long. Now to the 90s :)
I absolutely love 'Accidents' too!
Abstract philosophical material is what got me into PH in the first place, so Enter K is my fav, with Patience close behind. Patience and STs are close behind, with everything else further down the list, though 'Hemlock World' is one of my very fav PH songs.
Love the video, but I reckon 'Happy Hour' from 'Enter K' is one of the finest closers he ever did (along with 'Sleepwalkers' and 'Childlike Faith in Childhood's End' from the Van Der Graaf Generator records)! An ideal start to any night out in a public house...!
Hadn't realized until the comments started coming in how much people love Happy Hour. I'll try to spend more time with that one.
'Sleepwalkers' and 'Childlike Faith in Childhood's End' are great closers. Flight, too. But I find the finale of 'Happy Hour' drags on for too long.
Patience is my favorite at this moment!
Great video! I just discovered your channel this morning. It's nice to see someone concentrating on the genius of Peter Hammill. PH/VdGG and then the rest of the great prog artists for many of us. I see you also have Camel on tap so you definitely have a a new sub! Good luck with your channel! ✌️PH and prog🎧🎸
Excellent, thanks for checking it out!
You’re a little older than me (so you’ve been exposed to the 80’s more) but I find the 80’s production from In a Foreign Town so incredibly over the top that it has a weird positive clash with Hammill’s vocals, giving it a novel effect. Still respect your opinion though and I’m loving EBES from what I’ve heard.
I actually really like that perspective on Foreign Town and it makes me want to go back and listen to it again with that thought in mind! Thanks for checking the tunes out.
Liked.
'In a foreign town': The worst production, and the worst songs, too (except Hemlock, Sci-finance revisited, Time to burn and The play's the thing')! Also the worst cover!!
Also if spiritually “Out of Water” is an 80s album, I assume this means A Black Box has become spiritually a 70s album?
This was really an unexpected ranking, but still interesting you hear your take on it. I'd go:
1. Patience
2. And close as this
3. Enter K
(a long gap)
4. Sitting targets
(a looong gap)
5. Out of water
6. Loops & Reels
7. Skin
8. In a Foreign Town
9. Spur of the moment
Thanks for the watch! I don't think I'd realized until now how much people liked the K Group studio stuff.
You're welcome. I'm looking forward to you going into ... like, uncharted territory.
One thing that struck me watching this: has he ever done "Now lover" live? I've actually never heard of a live version. (And if not, why? I wouldn't mind hearing the reformed VdGG take that one on.)
Also: Will you be including the Isildurs Bane albums? I hope you do.
@@outernothingness1177 I agree that it would be cool to hear Van der Graaf take it on, though perhaps a bit less so without Jackson. I filmed this before the new Isildur's Bane came out (I'd never done any video editing before this and it's taken awhile to learn despite the quite rudimentary nature of the videos) so I should probably do a supplement for that one.
Here's my ranking...i needed time to listen again to every album with caution : the first place is for me a surprise...i had a quite boring souvenir of this album, ut a few years after my opinion have changed)
1. And close as this (once again, i realise i love this album, that i thought monotonous, so this is a kind of revelation)
2. Patience (i'm not a k group fan but this album is really beautiful)
3. Loops and reels (for the masterpieces "A ritual mask", "Moebius loop" and "My pulse")
4. Out of water (the two last songs are magnificent)
5. Sitting targets (not my favourite, by far...)
6. In a foreign town (two or three wonderful songs, the rest is decent)
7. Enter K ( not my cup of tea)
8. Skin (oh my god i really think Hammill was tired...)
9. Spur of the moment
@@marchersant5758 Ha! Yeah I see what you mean about Skin. I'll have to give Close as This some more attention. It's the only album of his that I never got a hard copy of because for some reason it's out of print and maybe that's biasing me against it.
HAMMILL negli 80 è sempre INTERESSANTE ma un po' di MAGIA per me era già andata persa voto medio dei suoi albums 80s 7/8 !!!!!
Certo. Amo gran parte del suo lavoro degli anni '80, ma è molto più irregolare rispetto agli anni '70.
Interesting perspectives ... I often cite Film Noir as an example of perfection in 4/4 rock drumming equal to Back In Black, and the Ellis's guitar solo is just outrageous, especially his use of a wah pedal. Ellis also did some really interesting stuff with an E-bow on the tour supporting Marillion in 1983 ...
I'll go back to that song in particular then! Since the comments for this one I've really been wondering if I've been underrating Patience in particular. I just picked up a vinyl copy, maybe I'll sit with it for a bit this evening.
“Backburner” as a verb. “Backburnerd”
I’m not sure. I kind of like it.
Great reviews, great introductions to Hammill’s solo work, much of which I’m unfamiliar with.
It sounds better saying it than it looks when you type it.
Wow, thanks for doing this!
Thanks for watching!
Not 100% sure - but I might rate 'Happy Hour" as my favorite song by Hammill in the 80's. Seen VdGG/PH over a dozen times and a fan since nearly the beginning. Great work - you haven't devoted any videos to VdGG - interesting.
Since I've done the videos it's interesting to see how many people like Happy Hour -- I'll have to give that one more thought. I love VDGG as much as anything but I just wasn't sure I had much original to say about them, whereas there's a lot less attention to the mid-to-late Hammill.
In response to your 70s and 80s Hammill album reviews will share personal rankings after figuring them out. I appreciate that your rankings are essentially objective taking the albums at face value. For me it’s hard to ignore external aspects i.e. Hammill’s relationship to VDGG personnel, his de facto band; his changing age and the shifts in energy and intellectual perspective that brings; the eventual willingness to (comparatively) tailor to the market. I mean at one point one does wish to see some revenue for work. These things are partly responsible for choices in his craft and consequently hard to tease out from an assessment of the work. But I’ll try.
I suppose The rankings are a blend of objective and subjective in ways which are quite hard to distinguish. Interested in hearing how they shake out for you!
I can honestly say that Skin was the first Hammill recording that disappointed me.
Btw I see a triad composed of Hammill, Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush. Apart from the early Charisma years of Genesis and VDGG, Hammill has guested on Gabriel albums and reciprocally had Gabriel on or involved with his as has Kate Bush with Gabriel. Pretty sure IAFT was Gail Force Mgt. too. Hammill and Bush though, to me, are more kindred in their philosophically imbued writing and idiosyncratic vocal stretching. At least in their classic work.
That idea of the triad makes a lot of sense to me. I heard the PG solo albums years before I knew who Hammill was an it was an interesting discovery to see him in the liner notes years later.
Many of these albums sound 80's more than prog.
1- Sitting Targets
2- And Close as this
3- Patience
4- Enter K
5 - Skin
6 - Loops and Reels
7 - In a Foreing Town
8 - Out of Water
Agree with your #2 and #1, the rest, not so much
some good tracks in the 80s but I can't handle the horrible dated production for most of it. I can get by with a homemade compilation of the best tracks and be good.
I'll admit to skipping around to favorite tracks a lot more in this decade than some others.
Loops and reels better than And close as this ... Out of water and Skin better than the K group...you loose all credibility and i could'nt listen to your critics
Yeah I also try not to listen to my critics
I met Hammill once. He’s truly humble and a real gentleman.
Plus And close as this doesn't come after the K group at all...it comes after The Love Songs and Skin...are you an amateur ?
With such a vast discography, it's easy to get a bit confused, so that doesn't matter at all. Huge respect for this guy to dwell deeply into the work of this genius and when he prefers other albums like you (or even most fans), that's his personal opinion and it's as valid as others. Everyone hears music differently. With every artist, there are people that love the albums which are generally considered as their worst.
I mean I'm not getting paid for it so yes I'd call myself an amateur 😀 Also it's in order of preference, not release year