Pokemon Gold Hardcore Nuzlocke, but I can only use SHINIES?!
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- ...This may have been a mistake.
Since around halfway through the original franchise nuzlocke series, I always had the thought in the back of my mind saying "You know what would be absolutely unhinged and hilarious? If we did this again with only shiny Pokemon." and the intrusive thoughts won. So here we are, Shiny Only Season 2 baby!
► I'll be streaming as much of this series as possible in my Shiny Franchiselocke Donothon right here on UA-cam! Make sure to head over to the "Live" tab to check that out, enjoy the show, and help extend the timer! / @chaoticmeatballtv
►I'm now a proud affiliate of GamerSupps! I've been drinking their stuff regularly for about 2 years now and I'd highly recommend their variety of flavors, which you can find here and use code "ChaoticMEAT" at checkout for 10% off!: gamersupps.gg/...
► TWITTER: / chaoticmeatball
► DISCORD: / discord
► PATREON: / chaoticmeatball
► THE EDITOR: @NickNoir
► THE THUMBNAIL/LAYOUT CREATOR: / fierydnce
Rules of the challenge:
1. All encounters must be shiny Pokemon (HM users may not be shiny but are not allowed to be used for attacking in battle)
2. Fainting = Death
3. Can only catch one Pokémon on each Route (Species Clause)
4. Cannot use a species of Pokemon more than once in the franchise (regional variants are considered separate)
5. No items in battle (held items okay)
6. No leveling past the next gym leader/E4 (at the START of the battle)
7. Play on "Set" battle mode
For business inquiries, email chaotic-meatball@intheblackmedia.com
Hey folks, I seem to have triggered some people during the Geodude/Jigglypuff debacle, but I got a really good explanation in the comments as to how I was wrong and hey, I'm man enough to admit when I just don't get something. Should've pointed out the person in question was also being a bit of a jackass in my chat beforehand and it was the tipping point, but I guess here we are lmao.
@@JokerInTheMarines ah yes, the old "you were wrong?!?!? DO BETTER"
ChaoticMeatball is very sorry he's not the perfect exemplar of a human being we all expect and demand him to be
@@ABurntMuffinSure thing buddy, the UA-camr guy saying "sorry, BUT" is definitely not lame, and people should just blindly say everything is fine, no matter what. What can possibly go wrong with that? Not like he is even making fun of the situation by equating people explaining he is wrong with them being "triggered" by a "debacle" that only happened in the first place because he wouldn't listen. What a healthy apology that is.
U lost a sub
also please learn how the game works.
U are making many many unecessary plays and risk crits all the time when you do not need to.
Your Armorouge sweep against the scarlet and violet grass gym for example.
At +1 you one shot all his mons bar sudowoodo which will survive 2 hits either way thanks to sturdy.
Yet you choose to go to +6+6 for no reason.
Good on you for listening to peoples comments and admitting you were wrong! I can imagine when you are doing this for *hours*, this kind of comment can feel very annoying, it can feel like they just want to be annoying on purpose, and at the same time I can imagine it was pretty frustrating for the chatter to try to explain what seemed obvious to them. I still think just quietly timing them out would've been the best solution, in these situations I feel like it is more important to have a nice environment to absolute truths. This isn't a maths lecture 😅
@@mangosteakWhen do your nuzelock videos drop?
Ok as much as i hate stats, the dude who said 90/10 was right
Hi, I'm here to boost the ol' Al Gore Rhythm.
The 90/10 Geodude/Jigglypuff encounter rate is literally just accurate. Base odds are 50/45/5, and you're rerolling the 50, but you're assuming that all instances of the reroll will land on Geodude, pushing you to 95/5
When in fact the reroll has the same odds. 50/45/5. If you're ignoring the 50, then your Non-percentile odds are 45/50 chance of Geodude, 5/50 chance of puff. When put into percentile, that's 90/10.
Yep, CM simply decided "all Rattata are now Geodude" for his math - which is simply not how math works. The other guy was absolutely correct.
Imagine being so petty that you try to humiliate one of your followers but that only ends up in you making a complete fool of yourself because you were wrong all along lmao
It basically shows the person he is in real life. A massive flog without any friends. His diet was also pointless being pointed out at the start when it doesn’t change the fact he’s still a flop of a human
I... don't think you should have banned that dude. I'm pretty sure he was right. It's 90/10, not 95, 5
But those rattata encounters don't magically turn into jigglypuffs. 90% of those ratatta encounters will be rerolled into geodudes, with only 5% rerolling into jigglypuffs (and the remaining 5% rerolling into additional ratatta encounters). So...the odds really don't change.
@@RenameJamesit's fucking Pokemon.
@@RenameJames Except you just proved that they do.
In 100 encounters, 50 are Rattata, 45 are Geodude, 5 are Jigglypuff. That much we all agree on.
Then we take out the 50 Rattata ones, leaving a total of 45 Geodude, 5 Jigglypuff in 50 encounters total.
And to get back to 100 total encounters, we basically double the non-rattata encounters and get...
90 Geodude, 10 Jigglypuff.
So, yes, those Rattata encounters DO turn into 5% extra Jigglypuff and only 45% extra Geodudes.
@@RenameJamesnot... quite. 50% ratatta, 45% geodude, 5% jigglypuff means that 10/20 are rattata, 9/20 are geodude, and 1/20 are jigglypuff. Since rattata gets re-rolled, it becomes 10/20 reroll, 10/20 are encounters. Of the 10 encounters, 9/10 are geodude, 1/10 are jigglypuff. Of the 10 re-roll encounters, if for the sake of getting into needless mathematical complexity we skip through all further rerolls until an encounter is hit, 9/10 of those encounters will be geodudes, 1/10 will be jigglypuff. All told that means that 18/20 encounters will be geodes, simplifying to 9/10, and 2/20 will be jigglypuff, simplifying to 1/10. That's where the geodude becomes 90% and jigglypuff becomes 10% thing comes from. When 1/2 the encounters become re-rolls until a valid encounter is found, the effective encounter rate of all valid encounters doubles.
@@RenameJamesthose rattata encounters also don’t magically turn into geodude, please take a statistics class
Imagine trying to humiliate a follower and calling them "a fucking moron" when they are actually right...
You were way off with your remark on the math to encounter Geodude or Jigglypuff. 90/10 *were* the correct odds, and you were just too tunnel visioned to understand it.
Damn, rip in peace to the guy who got banned because a streamer can't do basic math.
Attitude has something to do with it.
The person in the chat was wrong through??
Well no. There's a 5% chance you encounter Jigglypuff, 45% on Geodude, and 50% from a funny second shiny Rat. That doesn't change. The odds that his encounter for the route was Jiggly is 10%, sure, but in terms of pure encounter odds, it's only 5%
@@potatoqueen5248 I agree 100%
@@potatoqueen5248 You would be technically right, except that if you go back and listen, CM specifically claimed that since rattata is a reroll that makes it "effectively" 95% chance of a gedude and a 5% of a jigglypuff, meaning he is explicitly talking about his odds of the encounter for the route and that math isn't mathing.
Rip the Unown, it more than pulled its own weight this run.
Was watching you live and the fact you blew up and treated so many of your commentors like shit and even blocked 1 made me just not watch anymore. Especially since YOU were wrong in the first place. And now I'm not going to watch anymore of your content or follow if you treat fans like this. ESPECIALLY after so many people are agreeing that you were wrong in the comments
Dead Bayleef and Paras in the daycare. Poke necrophilia is something I never thought I'd see and I hate it
My theory on Faulkner having Mud-Slap was actually to try and introduce players to mechanics of bosses to come in a round-about way. Bugsy uses Fury Cutter which increases damage every time it hits (though scyther is hilariously immune to mudslap) and Whitney and her Rollout Milktank.
“Before facing Whitney, I made sure to edge my pokemon”
Do you have an HR department I can call?
i -really- wish he'd got the jigglypuff. would have been karma
Banning someone over pokemon and math is pathetic on both people not gonna lie.
How is it pathetic too get banned for being right about math just because it related to Pokémon?
Bro CM literally replied in the comments he wished someone explained it to him LMAO what
People when a random person makes a mistake: Oh, ok
People when a UA-camrTM makes a mistake: You shall be executed!
I think for most it’s not about him making a mistake. Rather, instead of “I think you are wrong” then admitting he was wrong when he checks, he argues back rudely, blocking the guy and then in this video calling him a “f****g moron” which is just a continuation of the way meatball has treated his fans (insulting his fans who enjoy watching his Pokémon nuzlockes when his other games get less views, making extremely inappropriate jokes in his last franchise-lock, among other things). A lot of his older fans are sick of the continued attitude of meatball.
Gotta respect you for doing a shinies only run. As much as I love catching Pokemon and can enjoy grinding a bit, I don’t have the patience to do 15k+ encounters for an encounter with digital bird with different colored pixels 😂😂. I’d lose my mind around number 500 or so lol
So respect.
Honestly banning somebody for argument about math is pretty Petty I don't know how the chat works but isn't there some way to just meet them so they can't comment without banning them
It wasn’t about the math, it was about his attitude.
@@jnzooger
Either way he was right and CM made a video calling him a moron.
Despite him donating 10$ and having no harsh feelings against him.
@@C0d0ps dude came in with attitude. If he had been less obnoxious that wouldn’t have happened.
Nobody give dono’s till our boy is unbanned. If someone upsets you, ignore them. Bad look.
I need to see the vod for the Geodude Jigglypuff encounter rate argument, I dont think I get it fully lol. Great vid as always
Short version:
CM says that the 50%-Rattata/45%-Geodude/5%-Jigglypuff would cause all rerolled Rattata turn that into a 95%-Geodude/5%-Jigglypuff encounterrate - as rerolling the Rattata removes them from the pool, basically.
The other guy stated that it's a 90%-Geodude/10%-Jigglypuff rate without Rattata.
Then CM banned the guy - except the other guy was absolutely correct.
If we remove Rattata from the pool, we get a 45/5 encounter-split. Which is a total of 50%, so to get it to 100, we need to double it, leaving it at 90/10.
So, CM banned a guy for pointing a mistake that CM made and CM got way too big of an ego to admit he's wrong and banned him for it.
@@gimok2k5 Wait was that really it? Like, he didn't make a nuisance of himself, wasn't spamming chat, he just said "That math is wrong"?
And got *banned*?
Wow. Disrespectful.
@@Iris_1217he was being an asshat in Chat
@@tesladrew2608 I made the ridiculous decision to watch the vod, and.. The dude really wasn't much of an asshat. Hell, dude gave $10 to CM while trying to explain the math, so if anything... Cha came off as a dick.
@@tesladrew2608
No he wasn’t.
CM was just frustrated after nuzlocking and playing video games for a long time.
CM: I’m the greatest gamer alive!
God: I see you need a good humbling. *enter hopip*
Ah this was cool until you got all the math wrong and hated on the guy for it. The 10% jigglypuff was correct. You won't take the rat so 45% geodude plus 5% jigglypuff only makes 50%. When scaled it's a 90/10 split.
That’s not how math works, the initial odds are 50/45/5, there is a 95% chance that you get either a rattata or a geodude, you made the argument that if you hit the 50% rattata that the hunt continues with the same odds of 50/45/5, therefore keeping the 95% chance of either getting a rattata or a geodude, however, that is not your chance of getting a shiny geodude. The reason being that you have a 55% of getting a rattata or a jigglypuff as well. If the outcome can ever only be jigglypuff or geodude, because rattata means a redraw, then you have a 90% chance of getting a geodude and a 10% chance of getting a jigglypuff
Bro’s math is bafflingly wrong
Just as I wondered if he would ever lose a Pokémon to a random trainer it happened ... rip all you brave soldiers
Holy shit, Gen 11 is gonna be launch before you finish Gen 9 one
I just imagined you swinging a Bayleef corpse against a tree…much the the horror and concern of the wild Pokémon from the tree.
I think you doing this series is abolutely insane. I love your dedication for this project and I wish you the best of luck with these tedious shiny hunts.
You don't half moan Meatball....
"Give me money because I've decided to make a video series that take up too much time"
You've previously gone on a rant saying "no one watches my non Pokémon videos". Now you're only making Pokémon videos
Now you're saying "someone correct my maths wah wah wah!"
It doesn't matter, why do we need to know that? You just bring the mood down all the time in your videos, just get over it!
The hunt for piss rat feels like it was just yesterday. 😅
>shows the loop once
>gives self infinite money
the six sam defense
20:15 holy shit that impression was spot on. You sound like Brian Drummond
>unown I
>picture is unown !
Sub par nuzlocker. Never considers crits and misses. He won't finish the series.
48:38 Hey I know that guy!
Ngl I'd rather see the regular videos than the Suffering Franchiselocke
"tell me how absolutely insane I am for deciding to do this again" it's so funny you said that right then as I was just thinking that... best of luck with the rest of this. I'm excited to see how this goes
Shine bright like a.... meatball
The bad math and thanking a non existent fairy tale creature for getting a shiny are absolute top tier cringe
you should do the franchise nuzlocke but in reverse
Calling Ho-Oh Lugia is pretty funny.
The red gyrados has the best shiny genes AA instead of A0. So a ditto that is "brimming with energy" when in the daycare with the lake of rage gyrados is ideal for breeding shiny Pokémon.
yikes, the last time I tried to give your channel a chance was during the legends arceus nuzlocke when you went off on your fans for a stupid reason (pretty sure you were complaining about how long the videos take and how your fans were asking too much of you, but i could be wrong) and overreacted, and now here i am trying to give you a 2nd chance and you do the exact same thing again with the stupid geodude/jigglypuff argument. I honestly don’t understand why you left that in the video, and you banning a follower for being right in the first place because you can’t handle being wrong or you’re unwilling to take critique is not a good look.
it seems like you can’t let things go and that you have to be right every time because you put yourself on a moral high-ground compared to your followers. you’ll never grow as a channel if you keep this up and frankly i’m not surprised that you’ve lost so many followers
He thinks he's some big hotshot Pokétuber and has an inflated ego. I'm curious how many subscribers did he lose after this video XD
This is too funny. As I was watching this I was playing inclement emerald and I got my like 3rd ever shiny, an Aipom out of a tree! Was just trying to collect my Occa berries 😃
Omg my fan art made it into the video!
Man was ho oh long.(hoppip was longer)
Are you just making up the rules as you go? Maxing out shit in PKhex here, reusing Gravler when you already killed it because it was a 'dupe', using a fucking box legendary. I also really dislike this constant attention to your livestream, maybe the people saying this was a shit idea were right if that's how this has to be done.
A) Using PKHex is with math of KOing Level 2 Pidgeys on Route 29 to expedite the process. The shiny hunting already takes a long time.
B) Graveler was never used in battle, only Geodude and Golem. It was obtained in a different area than my initial Geodude and I didn't have another encounter in Dark Cave, so that's fair game as ALL Pokemon can be used once in the series, hence why I saved Graveler for later, it just so happened to be later in this game.
C) If I'm willing to shiny hunt a legendary, I should be allowed to use it.
D) The livestreams are the reason this series can continue, otherwise it's too much of a time commitment for not enough of a payoff.
Hope that helps you understand everything going on. Can't really count on more than 1 hand the amount of people who have said this was a bad idea so it's clearly not.
Imagine this guy watches the silver or Crystal video. Multiple copies at once, rng manipulation, bots. Yet all within the initial rules.
Dupes clause is optional... and I don't really care if people use a legendary, heck I,'ve used legendaries before as long as it doesn't turn into a legendary solo run.
"i will disrespect u" -lugia- lmaoooo
cool series. will be keeping an eye out for these vids keep it up!
Been watching the streams and still missed parts lol glad to see both sides of the series!
are either of those 2 challenges the ultra sun and moon professor oak challenge? nobody has ever done one and I am desperate to see one!
The red/blue/yellow shiny video isn’t in the franchiselocke playlist
Dont worry mate. Everyone's insane in there own way. Just some of us are not open with it
You are clearly very open with it, and im all here for it, lol
*their own way
Chikorita was my first ever shiny in heartgold. It was so nice to get that. The only problem was that I had done it on a false new game on my ds, so I didn't get to keep it.
Almost missed this video cause the thumbnail was so close to the stream thumbnail haha
That's something I'm trying to keep separate by only using in-game sprites on the streams and TCG art altered with shiny colorations for the video thumbnails. I kept the first video's thumbnail in a very similar vein to how Season 1 worked so that people knew what it was but hopefully it works out. If not, I'll figure something else out.
A guy bans one person, and all the comments are against him. it's stupid, but anyway, thanks for another great video, Chaotic
Really enjoyed the original franchiselocke, my only issue with this is how long it'll take for each video, but good luck.
Potential idea for a season 3. Randomized encounters. Maybe add something like no new encounters unless you have space in your party to make it a little easier to have possible encounters while adding the difficulty that you have less choice in your active team without a sacrifice.
Shiny Franchise Nuzlocke hype. 💯 Some hunts took sooo many encounters holy crap. 😆
That unknown is like bon clay, right into the end
24:51 the Pokemon speedrunning community has actually lovingly named this a Gen 2 Miss cuz it's funny that a supposedly 100% chance to lower your speed doesn't happen because of a 1 and 4 chance that the AI doesn't get the drop
Awww yeaaah, insanity speedrun any%
Bless lord arceus for are shiny slowking he may be slow but smart. Everybody needs slowking in there lives. Praise slowking in all his glory and shinyness forever he is the new lord and god for all of us.
17:06 Gosh Darn that Miltank.
unown's death hit me hard. true mvp of the team...
Finals have me beat, I’m so hyped to be able to watch streams again soon aaaaa (boosting the algorithm with the comment lmao)
Hey, I was here for some of the streams 🙂
If the normal Franchiselock had a shiny clause the Shiny Franchiselocke should have a non-shiny clause, if you encounter a non-shiny version of a shiny mon in your party you can catch and change it
Maybe I don't understand the nuzlock rules but why were you allowed to use the duplicate geodude? I know it was from another route but I thought that was the point of the duplicate clause was so you couldn't use multiple of powerful mons and force you to use mons you wouldn't normally use?
dupes are optional, not mandatory. You can CHOOSE to reroll your encounter, doesn't mean you HAVE to, and shinies clause usually overwrites dupes clause
1:36 Yeah I'm good
That's a hard pass for me.
I'm so glad I was on the streams while he did it. After all streams watching this video it's like a huge "well done job". It's different the feeling of watching the final video after seeing all the struggle he had during the streams.
For all of you out there that are not watching the streams come see them form time to time and leave a like, the effort this man is putting on this series is titanic.
Worried for what will happen on the alolas 👀
UNOWN MENTIONED !!!
Make sure to check out the streams since I'm doing the ENTIRE series live here on UA-cam, your support determines whether this series is able to continue or not! ua-cam.com/video/cwOONprgW6U/v-deo.html
congrats on losing the weight but damn did you piss some people off with how flippantly incorrect and virtuous you were with that simple maffs
200 iq engagement ploy? or actual mistake and double down, who knows? hilarious either way
Youre insane for doing this and congrats on losing 100 pounds
I haven't been tuning into the streams but the dedication to this insanity is incredible and definitely deserves more attention
Unknown was hanging in there bro
Congrats for hitting 200k!
It's Def 90% geodude and 10% puff lol
45x2 is 90 and 5x2 is 10
The polyrath had my luck with dynamic punch
i'm wondering what'll happen the first time he finds a duplicate shiny.
...that already happened in this video lol
Dark cave flashing lights ahhhhhh
I'm actually curious when you get to gen 3 will you use the speed runner stats/ACE method of finding a shiny when you get to it?
33:12 CHAOTICMEATBALL YOU MADLAD!!!
i think it would be cool if the sprites in the team boxes were from the game youve played, like, instead of the 3d sprites in this game, they were the gen 2 shiny sprites. great vid tho, i caught most of the streams.
0/8 hp 2/3/6/7/10/11/14/15 atk 10 def 10 spc 10 spe
whats next after this? a franchise wedlocke or something?
The reason its 90%/10% is because the way you do it with rerolls is you pretty much take that % out of the other mons odds. So in this case it was 45/50 for geodude because -50 for rattata and 5/50 for puff again because -50 for rattata. So its 90/100 for geodude and 10/100 for puff. Alot of ppl get confused about this. I would expect someone like CM to knoe this because of how much he plays with odds of things in this style of games but i also get why he doesnt because its not rveryone does. As lomg as he understands now its cool. And to the guy that was being a dick there is no reason being a dick OVER A VIDEO GAME. Its pixals on a game😂 its not yhat serious 😂
Imagine being toxic to someone who is trying to help you, couldn’t be me. You really dropped the ball man. You aren’t the creator I thought you were. 👎
200k subs if u wanna leave u can 1 less sub
won't make a difference bud
@@Not_Chaze meatball ain’t gonna pick u man lmao 😂😂😂😂
@@gexgexgexgexgex621 ...
@@gexgexgexgexgex621 ...
@@gexgexgexgexgex621 Did I requested to be picked by him? I'm sure you ain't even read the comment correctly smh
I'm sorry but I straight up did not watch the video as soon as you mentioned "keto diet" in the introduction. As someone who has struggled with disordered eating I was just triggered. Sorry, sir.
oh god the snowflakes want trigger warnings for food now...
@@ABurntMuffin no, I just don't want diet talk thrown in my face in a pokemon video. There's a time and place, this is neither
@@MrSimen132 that's too bad. Wanting the world to conform to you instead of just nutting up and not doing things you don't want is part of not being a snowflake.
@@ABurntMuffin I agree to a certain extent. However, entertainment, like Pokemon videos on UA-cam serves as a place of comfort and escapism to me. Nutting up and doing things I don't want is something I do on a daily basis, and I agree it's important to be able to do so. But again, must this apply to literally every aspect of life? I just want some Pokemon shiny nuzlocke for an hour to decompress without having to keep thinking about struggles that I otherwise spend every waking moment combatting.
If that makes me a snowflake, then so be it. Wanting the world to conform to you is natural, who wouldn't want that? It's not realistic, I know that, but having to accept everything that comes your way regardless of everything is just annoying. Nutting up and ignoring things does not make you strong, it just makes you devoid of emotion.
@@MrSimen132 fair points, but to that last one, I didn't say nutting up and ignoring things makes you strong, I didn't say nutt up and ignore things at all. I said nutt up and don't do things you don't wanna do. If his videos make you unhappy in any way, then don't watch them. Yes, as you said, having to accept everything that comes your way regardless of everything IS just annoying. C'est la vie.
It's SO FUN to watch this video even after seeing these events happen during livestream.
I've been watching the streams; he was stuck on hoppip for so long
Regardless of who was wrong or right, it's a terrible look to put a follower on blast to an audience of 200k+ and I have unsubbed from people for it before. I won't this time, but uh. Yeah that's unprofessional. You could have simply not mentioned it.
Whether or not you'd been in the right, I feel like taking time out of your video to talk shit or moan about someone really brings down the tone of the whole video. I hope that drawing attention to the fact that you were incorrect when nothing would have been lost had you said nothing about your argument will make you reconsider complaining about your viewers in videos in the future.
Was that a Whose Line reference? You called Sneasel an Ice Hole. XD
I'm not positive, but when you said icy wind has a 99.6% chance to lower speed, I think that only applies to the player. I think the AI has a debuff on this. Not sure on the exact numbers though
Meatball: Does anything
Chat: 🤓
dude your chair looks feaking comfy, what kind of chair is this?
It's just a recliner I picked up at a local furniture store a few years ago, though yesterday something popped in it and I gotta get it fixed lmao
Banning someone over something so petty, isn't it. Imma go ahead and unsub. Not to mention, using a bot to find a shiny takes away the whole hunt of finding a shiny. What's the point of the "challenge" part of this challenge run just to not do the challenge.
Yeah same I can’t deal with childish creators. Kinda ruined it for me. Sad
@@CreepyJournals tbh this was the nail in the coffin for me- originally I unsubbed a WHILE ago when he was doing a Sw/Sh challenge.
What got me was when he fought Nessa and the RNG was REALLY against him, but every single time he got flinched he got more and more frustrated and started calling her names and got really brash. I was driving and had UA-cam hooked up so the sudden spike in volume and tone of voice wasn’t pleasant- but it was the verbal tirade that followed that I wasn’t for, so I unsubbed.
But then I decided to sub again a couple of months ago cause I saw the franchiselocke and decided “you know, it’s just a fictional character he yelled at, it should be fine, I’m sure his content has gotten better. And then I saw this, I’m sorry but I just can’t.
And when I mean verbal tirade, I mean a dude throwing a tantrum cause he got flinched by bite like 5-6 times in a row- which I get is incredibly frustrating, but something about it didn’t sit right with me.
Guess the content just isn’t for me anymore, but hey, it’s not like my sub really counts or anything, hope the guy continues to create the content he likes and does what he loves
I'll do a shiny only, on livestream if I reach 50 subs
1 word cha... INSANE!
I’m have to come watch stream this is very close to the prof oak shiney challenge I wanted to see