James Bulger Killer “Will Find A Way To Abuse Children” If Released, Says Ex DCI

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  • Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
  • Child killer Jon Venables has lost a Parole Board bid to be freed from jail.
    Venables served eight years for the murder of two-year-old James Bulger in 1993, and was given lifelong anonymity.
    Jon Venables was just 10-years-old when he snatched two-year-old James Bulger from a shopping centre in Bootle, Merseyside, in 1993. He and his friend Robert Thompson then tortured and murdered him.
    The 41-year-old murderer has been previously released on licence in 2001 and 2013, but was recalled to prison both times after indecent images of children were found on his computer.
    Venables will now spend at least another two years behind bars.
    TalkTV’s Mike Graham discusses the case with head of abuse law Richard Scorer, and former Met Police detective Mike Neville.
    Richard scorer says: “Public protection has to come first, the protection of children has to come first, and these people have to be kept in jail.”
    Mike Neville says: “They will never stop him… he will find a way to abuse children.”
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 123

  • @lmj2403
    @lmj2403 4 місяці тому +70

    Protection of child killers and pedophiles is nonsense. I can understand protecting the name of an under-age child offender, but cases like Venables where there has been ongoing offending, the public should know who he is. The public has a right to know.

    • @cloverg7821
      @cloverg7821 4 місяці тому +13

      Totally agree. He has abused the gift he was given of being able to restart his life under a new name
      .. he deserves to be named and shamed for the evil man he is!

    • @CraigTucker-wx2mq
      @CraigTucker-wx2mq 4 місяці тому +6

      ​@cloverg7821 What about Robert Thompson? He was also involved in the James Bulger killing. No one seems to mention him anymore, only Jon Venables.

    • @TheGamesZilla492
      @TheGamesZilla492 4 місяці тому

      yea shouldn't he also be returned to jail ?@@CraigTucker-wx2mq

    • @marcussmith8747
      @marcussmith8747 4 місяці тому +2

      @@NeriaWolf Yeah, from what I last read, he has settled down into married life (not sure if he has kids or not), a bog standard job and kept himself to himself.

    • @sandrakiuge9355
      @sandrakiuge9355 4 місяці тому +5

      ​@@NeriaWolfhas he not reoffended? Or has he not been caught reoffending?
      Huge difference there..
      Police officers back in 1991 thought Thompson was the MAIN offender, the master mind behind Jamses murder. Personally, I believe Thompson is very intelligent. We're basically lucky Venables is not. Keeps him locked away.

  • @greigsanderson
    @greigsanderson 4 місяці тому +42

    Great news on his refused parole.

  • @Mike_5
    @Mike_5 4 місяці тому +14

    The Parole Board should have just said 'No' as soon as Venables entered the room for the hearing

  • @kate_cooper
    @kate_cooper 4 місяці тому +24

    Roy Whiting was able to murder Sarah Payne because he wasn’t kept in prison after assaulting another girl at knifepoint. Anyone could have predicted he would do it again if released. They released him anyway, and look what happened. Shouldn’t lessons be learned from that one? And that’s just one example.

    • @level2etmpractical665
      @level2etmpractical665 4 місяці тому +3

      Exactly. It is infuriating.

    • @busybee1829
      @busybee1829 4 місяці тому +1

      But we are talking about a child now not a grown man.

    • @kate_cooper
      @kate_cooper 4 місяці тому

      @@busybee1829 What do you mean? Which child are you talking about?

    • @chuckc7815
      @chuckc7815 4 місяці тому

      ​@@busybee1829Venables is in his 40s, what child?

    • @KittyCatFurbabiesMaria1972
      @KittyCatFurbabiesMaria1972 4 місяці тому +1

      @@busybee1829what u mean ? He’s a adult BUT he knew right from wrong as a “child” and still was part of killing James ! he’s been recalled back and they should throw away the key ! EVIL

  • @ThomasMorris-hb3py
    @ThomasMorris-hb3py 4 місяці тому +28

    My issue is this!
    They continue to protect this creatures identity. This puts the onus SQUARELY on the shoulders of the authorities to protect the public, because we are helpless!
    Obviously, due to him being recalled TWICE for further offences, shows that the authorities are incapable of protecting us........therefore, the public MUST be informed of WHO he is and WHERE he lives!
    Basically, they continue to release these animals amongst us and we aren't allowed to know ANYTHING.......leaving us exposed and in danger!!

    • @greigsanderson
      @greigsanderson 4 місяці тому +3

      Why are people in prison not " taking care of him " I thought he'd be dead by now.

    • @sallywright8065
      @sallywright8065 4 місяці тому +3

      @@greigsanderson
      Because this is real life and not a crime thriller.

    • @LovelyLass-nb8op
      @LovelyLass-nb8op 4 місяці тому +2

      It makes us suspicious of anyone of this age group in Australia, is it him under another name

    • @SuzyQ334
      @SuzyQ334 4 місяці тому

      @@LovelyLass-nb8op Venables - or whatever he's called these days - has just been denied parole in the UK! He is in jail in the UK, not wandering around in Australia.

    • @sallywalton5375
      @sallywalton5375 4 місяці тому

      Not animals. Monsters!!

  • @amyhadrill-mendo878
    @amyhadrill-mendo878 4 місяці тому +27

    Why should someone walk free when their victims cannot? Nobody who advocates for their freedom would feel that way were it their loved ones who suffered. Releasing them would make their liberators equally guilty of their inevitable future crimes. Can them or bury them but you don't release a monster unless you are condoning them. Makers me wonder about these parole boards who sits amongst them!!!

  • @leonprunelle278
    @leonprunelle278 4 місяці тому +17

    It's common sense not to reform someone who has been recalled twice to prison for the same crimes ! Moreover, in staying in prison for life, Venables will finally pay for murdering little James Bulger. Unlike, unfortunately, Robert Thompson.

    • @vargr2089
      @vargr2089 3 місяці тому

      Robert Thompson served his time and was rehabilitated, and has not reoffended.

    • @leonprunelle278
      @leonprunelle278 3 місяці тому +2

      @@vargr2089 Does an 8-year sentence an appropriate and balanced sanction for such an horrendous murder ? I don't think so. Even if it is said that he hasn't reoffended : when Venables was recalled to prison, we learnt that years before he was a drug addict, violated the terms of his licence when travelling to Merseyside and got involved into brawls. Do we fully know the truth about Thompson ?

    • @vargr2089
      @vargr2089 3 місяці тому +1

      @@leonprunelle278it is completely possible that Thompson has reoffended and we just don’t know about it. But since we haven’t heard a peep, I’m gonna go with the conclusion that he hasn’t.
      They were 10 at the time, and I for one believe in forgiveness, especially when it comes to children. As for Venables, he had his chance and is still as vile as he was back then.

  • @footballislife1595
    @footballislife1595 4 місяці тому +18

    He is evil and a monster should never see the light of day again

  • @jeanhenderson1277
    @jeanhenderson1277 4 місяці тому +6

    He should never be released I think he’s still a very dangerous person

  • @susanross1651
    @susanross1651 4 місяці тому +13

    It’s obvious Venables will ever be rehabilitated. He was given every chance, even a new identity, but he couldn’t keep to the straight & narrow, so as far as I’m concerned they should lock him up & throw away the key.
    As for parole boards, I think they should be more open & transparent, because they have made some terrible mistakes in the past.
    I also think their anonymity should be removed if they offend again to protect the public.

  • @wendyabbey820
    @wendyabbey820 4 місяці тому +5

    He has committed crimes as an Adult and should be named now.

  • @paulcrombie9623
    @paulcrombie9623 4 місяці тому +12

    Okay, so he was just a daft laddy when they did this terrible murder, but he is now in his 40s, he must have been the instigator in this awful crime, imagine what he could do as a fully grown man!!

    • @sanders7789
      @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +2

      Never just a ‘daft laddie’. How many 10-year-olds do we hear of who plot to kidnap, butcher and murder a two-year-old? Thompson and Venables’ parents must have been deaf, dumb and blind not to notice these 2 were psychopathic. They are also to blame for what happened.

  • @ivormiler8163
    @ivormiler8163 4 місяці тому +5

    This country is pathetic this evil monster needs locking up for life ,I feel so sorry for the child and his parents

  • @emmadavey6431
    @emmadavey6431 4 місяці тому +3

    The fact he has re offended twice and in the same sector should be enough to deem he will not rehabilitate from this and does not wish too. Please save other children from him, please 🙏

  • @Ann-qf5vk
    @Ann-qf5vk 4 місяці тому +4

    Thinking of Denise and wee James' Dad. Brave people.

  • @patriciathomas9749
    @patriciathomas9749 4 місяці тому +3

    Pure Evil 😈

  • @emmanueladeyosoye3607
    @emmanueladeyosoye3607 4 місяці тому +5

    I watched with horror when this took place in 1993 little did we know crimes like this has become so common place today

  • @Ettibridget
    @Ettibridget 4 місяці тому +5

    During police questioning Robert Thompson was the streetwise, hardboiled character who didn't seem to care one bit.
    Jon Venables on the other hand, was VERY upset, crying and screaming.
    Yet Robert Thompson has stayed out of crime since then and Jon Venables is the one to get constantly inro trouble.
    Edit: Why has no one made an age-progressed picture of these two?

    • @MrDogtown22
      @MrDogtown22 4 місяці тому +3

      Plenty of pictures of Venables online if you know where to look

    • @TheConorsmithusa
      @TheConorsmithusa 4 місяці тому +2

      Yep , true They've been on twitter for many years and verified also

    • @MrDogtown22
      @MrDogtown22 4 місяці тому +1

      @TheConorsmithusa not hard to find out what his name was changed too either

    • @Ettibridget
      @Ettibridget 4 місяці тому +1

      I see, I just didn't know that.

    • @sanders7789
      @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +1

      I’ve always believed Thompson was the planner and the ringleader. He may act ‘rehabilitated’ but isn’t and can never be. So unfair Thompson was and is able to fool so-called specialists that he is now not a threat. He must be laughing at how he virtually got away with child murder and fooled everyone who thought they knew better.

  • @rubycandy92
    @rubycandy92 3 місяці тому +2

    It's disgusting he took a life for God's sake! He should be locked up for LIFE

  • @razer0072073
    @razer0072073 4 місяці тому +13

    I met him, years ago. I was told there was nothing left. No reason, no, conscience, no understanding in even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, of good or evil, right or wrong. I met this child, with this blank, pale…emotionless face and, the blackest eyes... the DEVIL'S eyes! We tried to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... EVIL!

    • @mojorising27
      @mojorising27 4 місяці тому +1

      Thank you for sharing - the eyes always give away these demons!

    • @FanofWords
      @FanofWords 4 місяці тому +3

      It’s tasteless to reference a film - in this case Halloween - when talking about a real-life murder.

    • @user-wq4nw2tl3w
      @user-wq4nw2tl3w 3 години тому +1

      Jon venables???

    • @user-wq4nw2tl3w
      @user-wq4nw2tl3w 3 години тому +1

      Jon venables Like??

  • @patriciathomas9749
    @patriciathomas9749 4 місяці тому +2

    Keep him locked up for good.

  • @flossyflue4305
    @flossyflue4305 4 місяці тому +3

    We shouldn’t even be discussing this, this man has proven that he cannot live freely in society. The toddler James suffered a tragic death, his family continue to suffer while John lives a comfortable life. It’s cost millions of pounds and continues to do so. People are making a lot of money out of this unfortunate case.

  • @philipcooper897
    @philipcooper897 4 місяці тому +9

    They always re offend

  • @annkynaston3605
    @annkynaston3605 4 місяці тому +2

    In cases like this the American "Three strikes and you're out"law seems like a good idea.

  • @sanders7789
    @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +2

    Both should have been jailed for life. Anything less is an affront to James’ memory

  • @emilys5249
    @emilys5249 4 місяці тому +6

    He should never have been allowed to live freely, never. He is still the same monster who murdered James all those years ago. Just because Robert Thompson has not re-offended does not make him less of a danger. They both should have been put away for life. Not put in a childrens home and then given freedom and anonymity. James didn't get to live, why should they have had that opportunity.

    • @sanders7789
      @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +1

      The injustice of it all has devalued child psychiatrists, psychologists, parole boards, judges and all other so-called specialists in my opinion. All that training and they were played like fools by Venables and Thompson

  • @suzannebraham5138
    @suzannebraham5138 4 місяці тому +4

    Anonymity is a load of rubbish it's still the same person no matter what they look like they will be recognised changing ones name won't make any difference.

  • @seandelap8587
    @seandelap8587 4 місяці тому +9

    Then don't release him ffs and if he does get released and harms someone else we will know who is to blame for that

  • @susieg4624
    @susieg4624 3 місяці тому +1

    @busybee1829 So what? That just makes Jon Venables even more vile. And he has continued to reoffend. He is now in his 40s and has been sent back to prison twice for downloading child abuse pornography (including, I believe, snuff films), despite this contravening the conditions of his release. It is obviously an essential part of his mentality, and as such he should NEVER be released again. The law bends over backwards for the rights of prisoners, but what about the rights of their victims, the victims' families and possible future victims? Thankfully the parole board has recently turned down another appeal for early release, so he will be kept inside for a further 2 years. If he is released then, how long before he harms another child? The law cannot guarantee his good behaviour, but nobody wants to lose a child because the parole board believes him when he promises to be good, just in order to get out.

  • @user-nr7ht8ky8j
    @user-nr7ht8ky8j 4 місяці тому +8

    Evil minded

  • @AnneTaylor-kk8ze
    @AnneTaylor-kk8ze 4 місяці тому +3

    A Life for a Life,thats my opinion

  • @kevin982
    @kevin982 4 місяці тому +6

    Like the statue of lady justice wearing the blind fold to state that justice is blind. It is blind to the suffering of victims. She only peeks a look at the perpetrators.

  • @susieg4624
    @susieg4624 3 місяці тому +2

    @ryanfoxley6756 Jon Venables is NOT innocent. "Poor lad" nothing! He has only spent a lot of time in jail because he has repeat offended by downloading child abuse porn (including, I believe, snuff films) and as a result been recalled to prison twice for contravening the terms of his releases. James's parents are suffering a life-long sentence of loss and have nothing to be ashamed of. Venables's own choices are the sole reason he is currently in prison. He is in his 40s and shows no signs of changing his behaviour, or expressing remorse. He has recently had another appeal for early release turned down by the Parole Board, so will remain in prison for a further 2 years. If he was in America he would be inside for life. If he wants to be released he should mend his behaviour and stick to it when he gets out. Thompson appears to have managed it; Venables doesn't seem to be even trying.

    • @sanders7789
      @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +2

      Thompson may have conned people into believing he’s changed. I don’t believe it for a minute or that Venables can ever change. Once again these 2 ‘poor broken’ things have been made out as victims. James missed out on justice, as did his family. The blame rests fairly and squarely on the judge, who gave them trivial sentences because they were so young. He mistook them for human beings, instead of the trash they were and will always be

  • @weementaldavy5987
    @weementaldavy5987 4 місяці тому +1

    How sure are we that they haven't already been released and we're just being told this to prevent them being tracked down sooner than later ?? 🤔
    Who knows , they were probably released ages ago .

    • @susieg4624
      @susieg4624 3 місяці тому

      They were released from the child unit upon reaching adulthood (except Venables had to stay a little longer, after they found child abuse porn on his laptop while still in the unit). Thompson has kept his nose clean since then. Venables has been recalled to prison twice for contravening his terms of release by downloading child abuse porn (including, I believe, snuff films). He is currently inside and has had another appeal for early release turned down by the Parole Board. He will remain inside for a further 2 years.

  • @soniaevans9000
    @soniaevans9000 4 місяці тому +1

    Fantastic that hes still in prison, although the cost of keeping him in is a lot the loss of james bulger was unimaginable for denise, ralph and their families.

  • @user-nr7ht8ky8j
    @user-nr7ht8ky8j 4 місяці тому +8

    Hes litter on the floor

  • @jonwoodmass2849
    @jonwoodmass2849 4 місяці тому +16

    Vegetables is a wackjob. Why is he protected?

    • @level2etmpractical665
      @level2etmpractical665 4 місяці тому +4

      Vegetables lol.

    • @jonwoodmass2849
      @jonwoodmass2849 4 місяці тому +3

      @@level2etmpractical665 pun was intended 😂

    • @MrDogtown22
      @MrDogtown22 4 місяці тому

      Because the Police LOVE protecting Paedophiles.

    • @davidbrazier1585
      @davidbrazier1585 4 місяці тому

      I know yeah. I know why because of the attacks he's faced like the boiling hot water someone scolded him with few a years ago. I make you right, Does make you wonder why to this day why he's protected like

  • @janetfry1351
    @janetfry1351 4 місяці тому +3

    I thought he was sent to Australia

    • @annkynaston3605
      @annkynaston3605 3 місяці тому

      No they stopped transporting convicts to Australia in the mid 19th century.

  • @000spacecadet
    @000spacecadet 4 місяці тому +1

    he has had mupitle chances of reform but its failed..no more chances!

  • @sanders7789
    @sanders7789 3 місяці тому

    I believe Thompson was the ringleader of James’ murder and is equally dangerous as Venables. He has no right being free either. Still waiting for justice for beautiful James ❤

    • @ThisLeprechaunWrites
      @ThisLeprechaunWrites 24 дні тому

      You are so naive. In the CCTV it was Venables who lured James out of the shop and held his hand. It was Venables who lied he was even there. Thompson admitted it first. Said it was Venables idea in the first place, which matches the footage. It was Venables who eventually admitted that it was his idea to lure James away from his Mother. And now Venables as an adult has shown what he truly is. I believe Venables was an evil child who had a sadistic, wickedness deep in him, demonic, and enjoyed torturing his poor victim. I believe Venables was the ringleader and it was Venables who pushed his weirdo ideas of holding onto James due to his sick fetishes whenever Thompson got bored and fed up and wanted to ditch the child. I believe Venables had the intent to do harm and murder that child from the moment he laid eyes on James Bulger and Thompson did not initially but he past the point of no return and got caught up in Venables' evil pre-meditated plan. Venables' evil energy influenced Thompson to the point it brought out an evil deed in Thompson which Venables encouraged Thompson in the frenzied moment to participate. That is not to excuse Thompson. Thompson had a rage in him that Venables used and directed, but like Charles Manson, Venables was smarter and manipulated and controlled Thompson. Thompson's evil was participation when he should of had enough courage to stand up to Venables instead of pleasing him out of intimidation. I really feel in my gut, after watching a lot of evidence on all of this, that Venables was the sadistic mastermind and actor who played victim. And look, he's the only one of the two that has shown himself to be a pedophile and child focussed/obsessed with all his sick crimes. Venables was the evil behind it all. His evil desires met with Thompson's sociopathy and lack of empathy was a recipe for murder.

  • @user-jk1ti2dq7l
    @user-jk1ti2dq7l 4 місяці тому +1

    They give then 100s of chances became they dony know what to do with them

  • @jordanongelstern
    @jordanongelstern 3 місяці тому

    Update Jon Venables goddamn picture ‼️

  • @LovelyLass-nb8op
    @LovelyLass-nb8op 4 місяці тому +5

    In Australia we're warning anyone with a British accent beware, I guarantee the other murderer with new name may be here

    • @vanessac1721
      @vanessac1721 4 місяці тому +3

      He has never re-offended though. Unlike Venables.

    • @joprocter4573
      @joprocter4573 4 місяці тому

      He was unlike this lad adopted.. Is now a parent and lead quiet life. Child crime is not supposed to be eternal sentence.. A four year old child killed other day whose fault?? Parent??!!
      He has not raped a child. He saw image of kids.. Police men have this also. It was awful to lose a child.. The two boys were very young then wanted kid just to go away.. To hear people talk like their good kids were absolute angelic is wrong. Bro n sisters can injure over toys. The aware Ness the correct skills not to be SO rough were missing at that period.. Let a1 watch them tagged up on leaving prison

    • @zc6346
      @zc6346 4 місяці тому

      ​@@vanessac1721We can't be sure he hasn't! He might as well be very clever and not have get caught!
      Police back in 1991 thought Thompson was behind the plan to abduct and kill and that Venables went along with it..

    • @deanokhalik173
      @deanokhalik173 4 місяці тому +3

      Wait , Robert Thompson is a parent? He has a same sex partner if I'm not wrong, unless they adopted or surrogacy etc. Either way, I think it's commendable he never reoffended. There is some hope and because he was literally only 10, there's redemption in him. He was s child. So was Veneables but clearly he was the instigator of that terrible crime, it haunts him. Something happened in his childhood long before his crimes

    • @susieg4624
      @susieg4624 3 місяці тому +1

      Speaking as someone who was abused as a child, for the victim it is a lifelong sentence. For the perpetrators, they can forget if they want. So wrong.

  • @user-jk1ti2dq7l
    @user-jk1ti2dq7l 4 місяці тому

    I would make it 100 million years

  • @user-rl8mq9uf7b
    @user-rl8mq9uf7b 4 місяці тому +2

    Poor Jon he's suffered enough surely downloading child porn is no big deal most people have done this as well so what
    he killed a little boy but that was a long time ago and he was possessed by the evil spirit of Lucifer then so it wasn't his fault and he watched horror films

    • @HumanimalChannel
      @HumanimalChannel 4 місяці тому +3

      "Most people have done this"??????
      No. Not by a ling shot.
      You're someone who should be found and investigated.

    • @susieg4624
      @susieg4624 3 місяці тому +2

      "Poor Jon" nothing! He's not an injured innocent - he's a repeat offender in his 40s who continues to download vile and abusive child pornography (including, I believe, snuff films), despite that being in direct contravention of his terms of release. And if you consider downloading child pornography is acceptable and most people have done it then I find myself wondering if you ought to be on a sex offenders list too. No, sir, it is NOT acceptable, and most people have NOT downloaded child porn!

    • @Chalky1mil757
      @Chalky1mil757 23 дні тому

      ​@@susieg4624so wot Jon venables has done his time long time ago from kat he makes me think of my husband clay from kat Russell

    • @Chalky1mil757
      @Chalky1mil757 23 дні тому

      ​@@HumanimalChannelso wit Jon venables has come his time he makes me think of my husband clay from kat Russell

  • @judehemsworth85
    @judehemsworth85 4 місяці тому +2

    He’s needs Repentance

    • @pptthe1st
      @pptthe1st 4 місяці тому +3

      Were you dropped on your head as a child?

    • @sanders7789
      @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +2

      Repentance is only for those who are truly sorry for their sins.

  • @busybee1829
    @busybee1829 4 місяці тому +1

    But he was a child.

    • @Dare_2_Dance
      @Dare_2_Dance 4 місяці тому

      He's a pedo as an adult and reoffended many times

    • @susieg4624
      @susieg4624 3 місяці тому

      So what? That just makes Jon Venables even more vile. And he has continued to reoffend. He is now in his 40s and has been sent back to prison twice for having child abuse pornography (including, I believe, snuff films), despite this contravening the conditions of his release. It is obviously an essential part of his mentality, and as such he should NEVER be released again. The law bends over backwards for the rights of prisoners, but what about the rights of their victims, the victims' families and possible future victims? Thankfully the parole board has recently turned down another appeal for early release, so he will be kept inside for a further 2 years. If he is released then, how long before he harms another child? The law cannot guarantee his good behaviour, but nobody wants to lose a child because the parole board believes him when he promises to be good, just in order to get out.

  • @ryanfoxley6756
    @ryanfoxley6756 4 місяці тому +1

    He’s innocent he’s spent way too much time in jail poor lad James parents should be ashamed of themselves

    • @susieg4624
      @susieg4624 3 місяці тому +1

      Jon Venables is NOT innocent. "Poor lad" nothing! He has only spent a lot of time in jail because he has repeat offended by downloading child abuse porn (including, I believe, snuff films) and as a result been recalled to prison twice for contravening the terms of his releases. James's parents are suffering a life-long sentence of loss and have nothing to be ashamed of. Venables's own choices are the sole reason he is currently in prison. He is in his 40s and shows no signs of changing his behaviour, or expressing remorse. He has recently had another appeal for early release turned down by the Parole Board, so will remain in prison for a further 2 years. If he was in America he would be inside for life. If he wants to be released he should mend his behaviour and stick to it when he gets out. Thompson appears to have managed it; Venables doesn't seem to be even trying.

    • @sanders7789
      @sanders7789 3 місяці тому +1

      You’re kidding right? Poor Jon who kidnapped, tortured, killed and left an innocent two year olds body for a train to cut in half? ‘Poor Jon’, who lied about everything, then played the victim? ‘Poor Jon’, who has reoffended and been jailed 3 times for downloading child pornography? Does your therapist know your twisted views on this issue?