*Fun fact:* There is a narration of the One Ring poem by Christopher Lee on UA-cam. If the Ring poem already gives you goosebumps, the way Christopher Lee narrates it will chill your blood. Simply 🤯
I just rewatched your last video since it took some time, so I immediately thought, "He fell because he delved too deep into the evil things, thus being corrupted."
Theory: In The Silmarillion, it is said that Morgoth had secret friends and spies in Valinor that were never discovered. My belief is that Saruman had been such.
It’s a theory that will never be answered, but I like it. My theory is simple, he fell due to his own greed. He knew he was the strongest of the Istari, and thought he could rival, or even overthrow Sauron. In reality, Sauron was stronger then Gandalf and Saruman, and was the most powerful Mair of the 3rd age, and arguably the 2nd age as well during the height of his powers.
I always like to remember the music of the Ainur and the discordance of Melkor, surely Curumo (Saruman) sang along with Melkor on this part of the history, to increase his dominion over Middle Earth.
I think you underestimate how far people are willing to go once they start subscribing to the theory of "the ends justify the means" to support their actions. There's little to no room for self-doubt with this mindset so I do question if Saruman ever had moments of "Am I actually the villain?" when carrying out his plans from start to finish. Even the slaughter of Rohan can easily be brushed off if Saruman sees it as a necessity.
Actual history is full of complete psychopaths who have sent tens or hundreds of thousands of people to their death for all sorts of flimsy reasons and not one of them thought they were the bad guy.
I think the crux of Saruman's fall hinges entirely on three points. 1: Arrogance in his own knowledge and power. 2: Envy of Gandalf coming from a secret inferiority complex. 3: Deep frustration with disorder, which is why he came to view Sauron's way of imposing order more to his liking and the free people's chaotic disorganization as anathema to his goals.
Man Saurman tale is interesting to try to pinpoint when he Fell to darkness *Was almost typing the Dark Side, when I realized and remembered Dooku and Saurman are similar (not just in Sir Christopher Lee playing them* and I was asking in my head, how did he take the Saurman of many Colours and you answers that when I was thinking that point!!! Thanks Mellon for this Interesting Topic, Until Another did Tolkien have a Canon...Marion Baggins Out!!!
"Leave Sauron to me." Normally I'd say the mind falls before the heart but with saruman it's the other way round Ever since he felt slighted in Valinor he seemed doomed to fall sadly
4:15 I think even the most evil people in history thought, in their time, that they were doing the right thing, and that their actions were necessary for the greater good.
In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, Saruman is portrayed as the right-hand of Sauron (or his puppet); early scripts suggested building Saruman up as "Darth Vader" to Sauron's "Emperor".
I think for the longest time Saruman deluded himself. Telling himself that to defeat Sauron and truly help middle earth he'd have to do evil to defeat a greater evil. And any damage would be trivial in the long run. And nothing he couldn't fix ltr And I like to think the turn to evil truly started as a result of his travels in the east with the two blue wizards. Specifically an event that went sideways that resulted in the blue wizards losing their lives and saruman blaming the restrictions the Valar placed on them.
I would love to see a film that follows Saruman's life.We totally deserve to see him in his healthy years and when all the wizards looked up to him as their leader. Thing is right now it is impossible.I would only see Christopher Lee as Saruman , nobody else.And a movie where him , Ian , Sylvester and even 2 more actors for the Blue Wizards co-star , seeing their lives fighting Balrogs etc. from the Second Age to the Third would be such a sold love letter to these characters.I definitely believe Christopher Lee would completely earn an Oscar for portraying Saruman's life from start to finish.After all mostly the villains are the roles that earn academy awards because the actors challenge themselves to bring out their full expressive potential.And Christopher Lee is a guaranteed win.
Saruman and his fall should be a warning to all today, for unscrupulous people follow this path even to this very hour, calling themselves the saviors of their people while only seeking power and privilege for themselves, and associations with others like unto them, to the ruin of us all.
I, too, suspect that Saruman may have abandoned or betrayed the Blue Wizards early on, finding it to be a pretty obvious hint that Tolkien was dropping. I honestly considered that he might have killed them, but he could just as easily have simply sent them on some wild-goose chase to be rid of them, or promised to perform some errand or deliver some message in the West that he never did. What's certain is that he was no longer in charge of his own mind by the time he started breeding Orcs as his preferred soldiers: if it's true that Orcs are bound to the Dark lord's will (whether it be Morgoth or Sauron), then the Uruk-Hai must have been no different. He had lost all control at that point.
I think the basis of Saruman's fall was present before he went to Middle-Earth. Certainly, we saw something of his arrogance and pride over his reaction to Gandalf and Radagast being chosen as fellow Istari. But I don't think he actually fell until he became absorbed in Ring-lore, which didn't happen until much later as best I can tell. Like the Númenoreans, he was quite corrupted before his first encounter with Sauron.
I'm beginning to create a headcanon that Aule is in the process of falling. There was also that whole "creating the dwarves without Eru" thing . . . there has to be the seed of something wrong with Aule!
I bow down to this Man of the West for finally answering the very question on my mind since Christopher Lee's magnificent performance as the malevolent once great White Wizard! 🎉 🌌 🏔 ❄️ 🏔 ⚫️ 🌩 ⚡️ ⛈️ 🦅
It just occurred to me the brilliance of Tolkien’s storytelling here. If saruman didn’t fall, sauron might not have thought Aragorn had the ring, thus changing his strategy and allowing Frodo to destroy the ring. saruman was meant to turn evil so that the ring could be destroyed. If so many very specific things didn’t happen, the ring would’ve fallen into sauron’s hands. The layering to it all is so impressive
I doubt Sauron or Melkor see themselves as evil because this would require a retrospective that they did not possess. Saruman on the other hand did have the ability to think objectively, I imagine that he spent many a lonely night convincing himself that he was in the right yes I believe his fall was slow, a long series of lies and subtle wrongdoing that in the end was too far down a path to return.
I think it was a matter of pride, he considered himself to be the smartest and wisest person in the world and that he knew better than everyone else, and so for others to reject him or follow those he considered to be beneath him stung his pride. It is something that I think we have all thought about, we have all seen people do what we believe to be against the greater good both for themselves and others, and wished on some level that we could force them to do what we think is right. If only people did not buy this product or didn't vote for that politician etcetera. Where he lacked wisdom was in his inability to understand his own limited perspective. At least that is how I have always read Saruman's fall, I will admit that I might be projecting somewhat as I have struggled with similar feelings myself.
I suspect that if you asked Saruman whether or not he saw himself as a Good Guy, you'd get a very pretentious (but very convincing) speech about how the notion of Good Guys vs. Bad Guys is too simplistic. Those that aspire to wield true power must move beyond such childish notions and embrace the hard truth that it is not goodness but strength that moves the fate of the world. The speech would wrap up with Saruman assuring you that as the wisest and most learned of the Istari, he has learned this lesson well. And that once he has won the Ring and wrestled control from Sauron, he will guide Middle Earth into a new Age of order and prosperity. He alone can do this, and he alone is worthy to do this. Do not trouble yourself with asking foolish questions about Good Guys and Bad Guys and instead stop to appreciate that he is clearly the Rightful Ruler.
A couple of days ago, I just came across the post on Instagram where it's reported that the late Christopher Lee may reprise his role as Saurman for the upcoming LOTR: War of the Rohirrim (despite already being deceased years ago). It's unclear whether if we will heard his voice via through use of AI or use old audio video footages with his voice to be included.
I saw something about that today! Apparently Lee had recorded some scenes for the Jackson movies that never got used, and that's what will be used for the upcoming movie.
Saruman was a ring maker too. Where he learned it was not from Sauron, but most likely in the forges of Aule. Aule was a bit of a misbehaver himself creating the Dwarves as it were and he was considered most akin to Melkor. There seems to be something about the house and halls of Aule over reaching. Tolkien subtly seems to imply that, and of course in the Silmarillion he wrote that these two Valar were most alike in thought and power. Opens a can of worms perhaps, but it kinda makes sense to me.
Interesting headcanon with the blue wizards, having said that, I always perceived the situation as reversed. As in Saruman left with the blue wizards but returned when they betrayed him...or at least when he felt as if they had betrayed him. This would be part of the reason of why he considered himself the wisest so to speak, he had seen the world for what it was and felt its sting unlike Radagast who played with animals and Gandalf who acted like a fool with children, hobbits and halfwits...and all his silly quests for minor goals. As such he prepared himself for the moment that he would be betrayed again and... "I'd rather betray the world than let the world betray me!" is phrase ascribed to Cao-Cao (a chinese warlord/ minister/ founder of a royal dynasty....) ...a very interesting person and although not exactly a good man (understatement) despite that it is not that difficult to considering him a necessary evil so to speak. And I suspect that Saruman saw everyone of his actions in the same light: necessary, he did not want this but he had to to keep the worst from happening, this might be bad but that persons weakness could result in so much worse, ..... (remember genocide Rohan is bad but compare it to the destruction of Numenor or the wars of Morgoth and suddenly it feels like a fairly minor thing and I am certain Saruman would have tried to minimise the consequences in the same way) I personally feel like the earlier quote suits Saruman very well and considering how the Wizard worked: he always prepared himself for the next round, made certain to lay groundworks to get himself an advantage...As in he builds himself an army to get a stronger position against everyone around him, hides himself in the strongest possible fortress, and simultaniously he feels himself always underappreciated, always the noble but underappreciated guardian who gets ignored but does what necessary even others don't get it. ...until the point that most of those others are less friends than they are rivals and chains which hold him back and he has to ignore or even outright fight them to get things done...and than it becomes easier and easier to turn on them. And so he betrays them and shows them exactly how vindictive he can become when they give him a reason to do so (in his mind).
Great video, thank you. I think the origin of his treason was at the very beginning of his mission. He wanted to go as the first, wanted to be the leader and victor. He was too confident and not wise enough, desiring for rule and power. In the contrary, Olórin said that he have been afraid of Sauron and that was indeed the main reason to go. Not the fooly conviction that Sauron will be easily defeated (as Curumo thought in my view).
I like to think that Saruman had justified his war on Rohan as necessary to appear as Sauron's ally, as it would potentially earn enough of Sauron's trust to let Saruman strike first and with little time for retaliation when the Wizard of Many Colours found the One Ring for himself
Saruman turned out worse than Sauron, ironically. At least Sauron started out genuinely wanting to make the world a better place. Saruman was just petty, vain, and jealous of everyone around him, especially Gandalf. So great was his self-degragation in his cruelty and pettiness that he ended up less of a shadow than Sauron was at the end.
I might not word this right, but i tend to like Saruman in much the same way as I like Eol; he is evil, but hes evil from within. He didnt have to be tainted by Morgoth, or something, to become it. Maybe that's Sauron, too, but he at seems like he could've been better, but then Melkor got his claws in, and maybe even invested some of himself into Sauron, making him a stronget servant, and putting some of his own evil into the Maia of Aule. Saruman, though, at least as far as we know, never spent time with Melkor; when he was sent to Middle Earth, he was still of Aule, and Sauron couldnt taint him because hecwas already in hiding, or recovering, when Saruman even arrived, and it seems that, while Saruman was in the East, Sauron actively avoided it, even if it would serm to have so many more places no people we know went, to hide. That means most of Saruman's shortcomings were his own, and not forced upon him by external evil, which I appreciate. It makes it harder to blame anyone besides himself for how he ended up.
I think of the contrast that Saruman provided in the context of free will in the LOTR. His decisions were made from the opposite intention of Gandalf. As to how and why Saruman made the decisions he did, I think of motives generally. How would anyone make decisions they do? I think Saruman prioritized survival where as Gandalf a martyr ignored that temptation and sacrificed himself for what he believed was true and good.
Thank you for the video. I think Saruman knew he had more power than Gandalf. It was just about power rather than the good. Sauron may have corrupted him.
Sauron had a utopian ideal that he could rule all the people of Middle-earth single-handedly and provide absolute order, which was his main motivation. He wanted to realize this ideal, which he believed would be good for everyone. Saruman also had a similar ideal parallel to Sauron. For this he needed power. This power was the One Ring. This is actually an approach that evolved into Melkor's evil will in the context of the elimination of free will.
Saruman atop the Isengard Tower: "You may think you have won, but there's still much of my power I haven't..." *Meanwhile* Gandalf: "The hell is he saying? I cannot hear him from here" Gimli: "Who cares?! Elf guy..." Legolas: *Fatally shoots Saruman*
How did Saruman's tremendous magic Maiar powers diminish? Did he pour too much of it into crafts and corruptions like Morgoth and Sauron? How could one of the Maiar be so lessened and vulnerable by the time of his end in the Scouring of the Shire?
This is why my ring, Narya, has a White Sapphire instead of a Diamond. Kirsten's ring has a Diamond because her heart is incorruptible. To purpose Virginity, mine wavers.
I don't think Saruman was truly evil prior to falling to Sauron via the Palantir. Prior to that he was arrogant, prideful, and astray. I think he beleived at first that his were the right hands to hold the ring, but his obsession led him to desire it for its power alone, then desire to dominate according to his will alone.
My husband, Isaiah, got sent to Saruman. Saruman and the Orcs fought with Mordor to establish the righteousness of marriage. I aligned myself with David and fought for the righteousness of rape, having heard from Grace de Valois that rape is righteous. There is no more righteous act than to take Virginity and 'The Lord of the Rings' is about Virginity. It is between Arwen and Aragorn, after all. However, having fought for the righteousness of rape led to my own (Judith's) fall from grace during this lifetime.
I like to think that the blue wizards achieved their goal in preventing the whole of the east in turning to Sauron, so the Easterlings we see are the evil minority
a truly evil person never considers himself such until the very last second, think of a mid 20th century dictator who committed sewage before the troops stormed his bunker i don't think sauroman saw himself as evil at least until he was in the shire jmho 🤠👍👍👍
Alternative title: How/When did Saruman the Wise abandon reason for madness?
Cur!!!
I Con Cur!
*Fun fact:* There is a narration of the One Ring poem by Christopher Lee on UA-cam. If the Ring poem already gives you goosebumps, the way Christopher Lee narrates it will chill your blood. Simply 🤯
I remember reading Christopher Lee wanted to explore Saruman’s fall in the Hobbit trilogy. Would have loved to have seen that
The glimpse we got was cool though.
I'm never late to these.
I arrive precisely when I mean too.
Good video!
Last time I was this Early, Tom Bombadil had already been living here for hundreds of years
Excellent video! It does smith that “those who work the craft of making” (like smiths) are easily corrupted because of their seeking perfection
It is a great day any time Yoystan uploads. Great explanations of Lore!
I just rewatched your last video since it took some time, so I immediately thought, "He fell because he delved too deep into the evil things, thus being corrupted."
If only Saruman had Life Alert when he fell...
Saruman never would’ve been corrupted through the Palintir if he used Nord VPN
Theory: In The Silmarillion, it is said that Morgoth had secret friends and spies in Valinor that were never discovered. My belief is that Saruman had been such.
Well, this wozld imply that he successfully hid this from the Val'ar, why else would they send him as the leader of the Istari?
@@matepenava5888yes
It’s a theory that will never be answered, but I like it. My theory is simple, he fell due to his own greed. He knew he was the strongest of the Istari, and thought he could rival, or even overthrow Sauron. In reality, Sauron was stronger then Gandalf and Saruman, and was the most powerful Mair of the 3rd age, and arguably the 2nd age as well during the height of his powers.
I have a feeling that you are a very interesting teacher.
I always like to remember the music of the Ainur and the discordance of Melkor, surely Curumo (Saruman) sang along with Melkor on this part of the history, to increase his dominion over Middle Earth.
I think you underestimate how far people are willing to go once they start subscribing to the theory of "the ends justify the means" to support their actions. There's little to no room for self-doubt with this mindset so I do question if Saruman ever had moments of "Am I actually the villain?" when carrying out his plans from start to finish. Even the slaughter of Rohan can easily be brushed off if Saruman sees it as a necessity.
Actual history is full of complete psychopaths who have sent tens or hundreds of thousands of people to their death for all sorts of flimsy reasons and not one of them thought they were the bad guy.
@@cm275 Exactly my point.
I think the crux of Saruman's fall hinges entirely on three points.
1: Arrogance in his own knowledge and power.
2: Envy of Gandalf coming from a secret inferiority complex.
3: Deep frustration with disorder, which is why he came to view Sauron's way of imposing order more to his liking and the free people's chaotic disorganization as anathema to his goals.
I can agree to that.
So if you threw in greed (kind of hit in it in 3) and superiority complex (kind of hit on it kn 1 and a even 2) then you have classic facism
Sounds like a very familiar pendulum.
Man Saurman tale is interesting to try to pinpoint when he Fell to darkness *Was almost typing the Dark Side, when I realized and remembered Dooku and Saurman are similar (not just in Sir Christopher Lee playing them* and I was asking in my head, how did he take the Saurman of many Colours and you answers that when I was thinking that point!!!
Thanks Mellon for this Interesting Topic, Until Another did Tolkien have a Canon...Marion Baggins Out!!!
"Leave Sauron to me."
Normally I'd say the mind falls before the heart but with saruman it's the other way round
Ever since he felt slighted in Valinor he seemed doomed to fall sadly
4:15 I think even the most evil people in history thought, in their time, that they were doing the right thing, and that their actions were necessary for the greater good.
In Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, Saruman is portrayed as the right-hand of Sauron (or his puppet); early scripts suggested building Saruman up as "Darth Vader" to Sauron's "Emperor".
I think for the longest time Saruman deluded himself. Telling himself that to defeat Sauron and truly help middle earth he'd have to do evil to defeat a greater evil. And any damage would be trivial in the long run. And nothing he couldn't fix ltr
And I like to think the turn to evil truly started as a result of his travels in the east with the two blue wizards. Specifically an event that went sideways that resulted in the blue wizards losing their lives and saruman blaming the restrictions the Valar placed on them.
I would love to see a film that follows Saruman's life.We totally deserve to see him in his healthy years and when all the wizards looked up to him as their leader.
Thing is right now it is impossible.I would only see Christopher Lee as Saruman , nobody else.And a movie where him , Ian , Sylvester and even 2 more actors for the Blue Wizards co-star , seeing their lives fighting Balrogs etc. from the Second Age to the Third would be such a sold love letter to these characters.I definitely believe Christopher Lee would completely earn an Oscar for portraying Saruman's life from start to finish.After all mostly the villains are the roles that earn academy awards because the actors challenge themselves to bring out their full expressive potential.And Christopher Lee is a guaranteed win.
Much better content than the Amazon sell out "Nerd of the Rings".
Saruman and his fall should be a warning to all today, for unscrupulous people follow this path even to this very hour, calling themselves the saviors of their people while only seeking power and privilege for themselves, and associations with others like unto them, to the ruin of us all.
Thank you for answering another question that has been nagging at me yoystan
I, too, suspect that Saruman may have abandoned or betrayed the Blue Wizards early on, finding it to be a pretty obvious hint that Tolkien was dropping. I honestly considered that he might have killed them, but he could just as easily have simply sent them on some wild-goose chase to be rid of them, or promised to perform some errand or deliver some message in the West that he never did.
What's certain is that he was no longer in charge of his own mind by the time he started breeding Orcs as his preferred soldiers: if it's true that Orcs are bound to the Dark lord's will (whether it be Morgoth or Sauron), then the Uruk-Hai must have been no different. He had lost all control at that point.
I think the basis of Saruman's fall was present before he went to Middle-Earth. Certainly, we saw something of his arrogance and pride over his reaction to Gandalf and Radagast being chosen as fellow Istari. But I don't think he actually fell until he became absorbed in Ring-lore, which didn't happen until much later as best I can tell. Like the Númenoreans, he was quite corrupted before his first encounter with Sauron.
Feanor, Mairon/Sauron, Saruman: someone needs to look into why Aule's apprentices keep turning evil.
I'm beginning to create a headcanon that Aule is in the process of falling. There was also that whole "creating the dwarves without Eru" thing . . . there has to be the seed of something wrong with Aule!
I bow down to this Man of the West for finally answering the very question on my mind since Christopher Lee's magnificent performance as the malevolent once great White Wizard! 🎉 🌌 🏔 ❄️ 🏔 ⚫️ 🌩 ⚡️ ⛈️ 🦅
It just occurred to me the brilliance of Tolkien’s storytelling here. If saruman didn’t fall, sauron might not have thought Aragorn had the ring, thus changing his strategy and allowing Frodo to destroy the ring. saruman was meant to turn evil so that the ring could be destroyed. If so many very specific things didn’t happen, the ring would’ve fallen into sauron’s hands. The layering to it all is so impressive
Would love to see your take on if Dennethor had been corrupted by the palantir, perhaps even spying for sauron
I doubt Sauron or Melkor see themselves as evil because this would require a retrospective that they did not possess. Saruman on the other hand did have the ability to think objectively, I imagine that he spent many a lonely night convincing himself that he was in the right yes I believe his fall was slow, a long series of lies and subtle wrongdoing that in the end was too far down a path to return.
I think it was a matter of pride, he considered himself to be the smartest and wisest person in the world and that he knew better than everyone else, and so for others to reject him or follow those he considered to be beneath him stung his pride. It is something that I think we have all thought about, we have all seen people do what we believe to be against the greater good both for themselves and others, and wished on some level that we could force them to do what we think is right. If only people did not buy this product or didn't vote for that politician etcetera. Where he lacked wisdom was in his inability to understand his own limited perspective. At least that is how I have always read Saruman's fall, I will admit that I might be projecting somewhat as I have struggled with similar feelings myself.
"A wizard should know better!"
I suspect that if you asked Saruman whether or not he saw himself as a Good Guy, you'd get a very pretentious (but very convincing) speech about how the notion of Good Guys vs. Bad Guys is too simplistic. Those that aspire to wield true power must move beyond such childish notions and embrace the hard truth that it is not goodness but strength that moves the fate of the world.
The speech would wrap up with Saruman assuring you that as the wisest and most learned of the Istari, he has learned this lesson well. And that once he has won the Ring and wrestled control from Sauron, he will guide Middle Earth into a new Age of order and prosperity. He alone can do this, and he alone is worthy to do this. Do not trouble yourself with asking foolish questions about Good Guys and Bad Guys and instead stop to appreciate that he is clearly the Rightful Ruler.
Radergahst was the perfect wizard imo
Restrain his power and his love❤ for all creatures great & small
A couple of days ago, I just came across the post on Instagram where it's reported that the late Christopher Lee may reprise his role as Saurman for the upcoming LOTR: War of the Rohirrim (despite already being deceased years ago). It's unclear whether if we will heard his voice via through use of AI or use old audio video footages with his voice to be included.
I saw something about that today! Apparently Lee had recorded some scenes for the Jackson movies that never got used, and that's what will be used for the upcoming movie.
Sauron thought he was the good guy , just wanted more order , less chaos.
I think some people would like to know the rise and fall of the Sackville-Bagginses
Yes
Nah
How Lobelia Sackville-Baggins was corrupted by Sauron...
Saruman was a ring maker too. Where he learned it was not from Sauron, but most likely in the forges of Aule. Aule was a bit of a misbehaver himself creating the Dwarves as it were and he was considered most akin to Melkor. There seems to be something about the house and halls of Aule over reaching. Tolkien subtly seems to imply that, and of course in the Silmarillion he wrote that these two Valar were most alike in thought and power. Opens a can of worms perhaps, but it kinda makes sense to me.
Interesting headcanon with the blue wizards, having said that, I always perceived the situation as reversed.
As in Saruman left with the blue wizards but returned when they betrayed him...or at least when he felt as if they had betrayed him.
This would be part of the reason of why he considered himself the wisest so to speak, he had seen the world for what it was and felt its sting unlike Radagast who played with animals and Gandalf who acted like a fool with children, hobbits and halfwits...and all his silly quests for minor goals.
As such he prepared himself for the moment that he would be betrayed again and...
"I'd rather betray the world than let the world betray me!" is phrase ascribed to Cao-Cao (a chinese warlord/ minister/ founder of a royal dynasty....) ...a very interesting person and although not exactly a good man (understatement) despite that it is not that difficult to considering him a necessary evil so to speak.
And I suspect that Saruman saw everyone of his actions in the same light: necessary, he did not want this but he had to to keep the worst from happening, this might be bad but that persons weakness could result in so much worse, ..... (remember genocide Rohan is bad but compare it to the destruction of Numenor or the wars of Morgoth and suddenly it feels like a fairly minor thing and I am certain Saruman would have tried to minimise the consequences in the same way)
I personally feel like the earlier quote suits Saruman very well and considering how the Wizard worked: he always prepared himself for the next round, made certain to lay groundworks to get himself an advantage...As in he builds himself an army to get a stronger position against everyone around him, hides himself in the strongest possible fortress, and simultaniously he feels himself always underappreciated, always the noble but underappreciated guardian who gets ignored but does what necessary even others don't get it. ...until the point that most of those others are less friends than they are rivals and chains which hold him back and he has to ignore or even outright fight them to get things done...and than it becomes easier and easier to turn on them.
And so he betrays them and shows them exactly how vindictive he can become when they give him a reason to do so (in his mind).
Great video, thank you.
I think the origin of his treason was at the very beginning of his mission. He wanted to go as the first, wanted to be the leader and victor. He was too confident and not wise enough, desiring for rule and power. In the contrary, Olórin said that he have been afraid of Sauron and that was indeed the main reason to go. Not the fooly conviction that Sauron will be easily defeated (as Curumo thought in my view).
I like to think that Saruman had justified his war on Rohan as necessary to appear as Sauron's ally, as it would potentially earn enough of Sauron's trust to let Saruman strike first and with little time for retaliation when the Wizard of Many Colours found the One Ring for himself
Nice 👍
Saruman turned out worse than Sauron, ironically. At least Sauron started out genuinely wanting to make the world a better place. Saruman was just petty, vain, and jealous of everyone around him, especially Gandalf. So great was his self-degragation in his cruelty and pettiness that he ended up less of a shadow than Sauron was at the end.
I might not word this right, but i tend to like Saruman in much the same way as I like Eol; he is evil, but hes evil from within. He didnt have to be tainted by Morgoth, or something, to become it. Maybe that's Sauron, too, but he at seems like he could've been better, but then Melkor got his claws in, and maybe even invested some of himself into Sauron, making him a stronget servant, and putting some of his own evil into the Maia of Aule. Saruman, though, at least as far as we know, never spent time with Melkor; when he was sent to Middle Earth, he was still of Aule, and Sauron couldnt taint him because hecwas already in hiding, or recovering, when Saruman even arrived, and it seems that, while Saruman was in the East, Sauron actively avoided it, even if it would serm to have so many more places no people we know went, to hide. That means most of Saruman's shortcomings were his own, and not forced upon him by external evil, which I appreciate. It makes it harder to blame anyone besides himself for how he ended up.
I think of the contrast that Saruman provided in the context of free will in the LOTR. His decisions were made from the opposite intention of Gandalf. As to how and why Saruman made the decisions he did, I think of motives generally. How would anyone make decisions they do? I think Saruman prioritized survival where as Gandalf a martyr ignored that temptation and sacrificed himself for what he believed was true and good.
3:00
Is there any writings on when/how Saruman found out that Gandalf had a ring?
Saruman's fall seems to mirror what we know of Sauron's, and for more or less the same reasons.
Thank you for the video. I think Saruman knew he had more power than Gandalf. It was just about power rather than the good. Sauron may have corrupted him.
That first photo almost makes him look like he has Sith eyes.
I wonder if Saruman made some rash decision that annoyed the Blue Wizards, leading them to stop following him due to loss of confidence.
Sauron had a utopian ideal that he could rule all the people of Middle-earth single-handedly and provide absolute order, which was his main motivation. He wanted to realize this ideal, which he believed would be good for everyone. Saruman also had a similar ideal parallel to Sauron. For this he needed power. This power was the One Ring. This is actually an approach that evolved into Melkor's evil will in the context of the elimination of free will.
Saruman atop the Isengard Tower: "You may think you have won, but there's still much of my power I haven't..."
*Meanwhile*
Gandalf: "The hell is he saying? I cannot hear him from here"
Gimli: "Who cares?! Elf guy..."
Legolas: *Fatally shoots Saruman*
You're saying Legolas was onoy meant to fire a warning shot across the bow?
How did Saruman's tremendous magic Maiar powers diminish? Did he pour too much of it into crafts and corruptions like Morgoth and Sauron? How could one of the Maiar be so lessened and vulnerable by the time of his end in the Scouring of the Shire?
This is why my ring, Narya, has a White Sapphire instead of a Diamond. Kirsten's ring has a Diamond because her heart is incorruptible. To purpose Virginity, mine wavers.
The corrupted never realize they've become corrupted. They believe what they're doing is the right thing to bring order into the world.
So, let me get this straight...when Sauruman gets access to WiFi, he browses the dark side too much, thereby becoming evil and corrupted...
Yup.
One thing's for sure is that Saruman screwed over the Fellowship big time. If he had remained good he would have accomplished wonders.
Denethor fought mentally with Sauron over the Palantir for like fifty years before he went mad. How long could Saruman have lasted against Sauron?
The intro sound is much much louder than the speak.
I don't think Saruman was truly evil prior to falling to Sauron via the Palantir. Prior to that he was arrogant, prideful, and astray. I think he beleived at first that his were the right hands to hold the ring, but his obsession led him to desire it for its power alone, then desire to dominate according to his will alone.
My husband, Isaiah, got sent to Saruman. Saruman and the Orcs fought with Mordor to establish the righteousness of marriage. I aligned myself with David and fought for the righteousness of rape, having heard from Grace de Valois that rape is righteous. There is no more righteous act than to take Virginity and 'The Lord of the Rings' is about Virginity. It is between Arwen and Aragorn, after all.
However, having fought for the righteousness of rape led to my own (Judith's) fall from grace during this lifetime.
I like to think that the blue wizards achieved their goal in preventing the whole of the east in turning to Sauron, so the Easterlings we see are the evil minority
a truly evil person never considers himself such until the very last second, think of a mid 20th century dictator who committed sewage before the troops stormed his bunker i don't think sauroman saw himself as evil at least until he was in the shire jmho 🤠👍👍👍
How exactly does one commit "sewage"? Did he flush himself?
@@whiteknightcat Suffice it to say the dictator committed sewage by turning his own plunger back on himself.
Friendly reminder to watch Charlie Hopkinson's LOTR watch party deepfake videos.
Saruman Probably first fell when he tripped over a broom. Happens to me all the to.e.
Maybe Saruman had a mental breach?
Possessed
Still waiting for the how 😡
Is that AI art at 1:24????
No, that’s not it