What is the Strongest Party in Dungeons and Dragon 5e?

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  • Опубліковано 5 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 2,6 тис.

  • @lucasm.3864
    @lucasm.3864 3 роки тому +4525

    A party that bribed the DM with a consistent schedule and snacks.

    • @BerserkerNosaj
      @BerserkerNosaj 3 роки тому +72

      Yes!

    • @DungeonDudes
      @DungeonDudes  3 роки тому +1322

      Whoa whoa whoa that's a whole other level of theoretical optimization. We're trying to be realistic, here!

    • @rcschmidt668
      @rcschmidt668 3 роки тому +21

      FTW

    • @jonathanhernandez4976
      @jonathanhernandez4976 3 роки тому +52

      This is the meta

    • @forteandblues
      @forteandblues 3 роки тому +40

      Unless the DM’s sister is the problem…
      We want to play and are ready regularly. But her sister keeps ruining it and the DM always allows it.
      The rest of us want to boot her…

  • @RobKinneySouthpaw
    @RobKinneySouthpaw 3 роки тому +3669

    Strongest party: the one where all the players unexpectedly showed up.

    • @LaneyStudios5
      @LaneyStudios5 3 роки тому +48

      This one hurt, always someone not able to turn up when my group plays

    • @friedtable3161
      @friedtable3161 3 роки тому +8

      This is sadly true

    • @dahelmang
      @dahelmang 3 роки тому +19

      This is why I've never gotten to level 2 though I have been in 6 groups.

    • @FaeMasquerade
      @FaeMasquerade 3 роки тому +8

      Impossible lol. I've had a consistent schedule for a while now, but we are usually missing one or two people

    • @ericroesch6646
      @ericroesch6646 3 роки тому +1

      How very true

  • @t.b.cont.
    @t.b.cont. 3 роки тому +2384

    Everyone else: “hmm, let’s try to make the best party we can and create a great composition”
    The party I dm: “all of us are different totem barbarians, we’re like fantasy power rangers”

  • @Gercho-san
    @Gercho-san 3 роки тому +1052

    "A party of 5 clerics, called the a-Men" I totally agree with Jocat.

    • @cassiopeia_real
      @cassiopeia_real 2 роки тому +13

      even better, make all their names start with A

    • @planexshifter
      @planexshifter 2 роки тому +5

      A-Team?! Maybe?

    • @estebanramirez1178
      @estebanramirez1178 2 роки тому +12

      @@planexshifter That’s the reference.

    • @Balstasar
      @Balstasar 2 роки тому +13

      We thought tge same idea, but instead of 5 clerics the party was 2 clerics, 2 paladins and one zealot barbarian

    • @Comicsluvr
      @Comicsluvr 2 роки тому +10

      I was in a 5-man party, all different Clerics, who were not only disgusting in battle but the RP opportunities were awesome. We debated which of our deities was the strongest, played chess in camp whenever possible, and generally brought the light of AoE spellcasting to the world.

  • @Indigo1559
    @Indigo1559 3 роки тому +745

    Kelly: each of my picks is going to be one of two of those core roles and be able to buff each other.
    Monty: each of my picks is a cracked subclass that fills every role at once

  • @cattrucker8257
    @cattrucker8257 3 роки тому +1153

    Kelly: "Friendship is magic!"
    Monty: "Magic is might."

    • @DungeonDudes
      @DungeonDudes  3 роки тому +282

      That about defines our personal D&D vibes.

    • @lauramcmillan9592
      @lauramcmillan9592 3 роки тому +34

      I smell two new t-shirts.

    • @cameronhumphreys2309
      @cameronhumphreys2309 3 роки тому +59

      So by transitive properties Friendship is might, all hail your new Overlord, Twilight Sparkle.

    • @freman007
      @freman007 3 роки тому +8

      Marneus Calgar: Magic is heresy.

    • @Coolified_Gaming
      @Coolified_Gaming 3 роки тому +6

      So that’s why Twilight is so OP.

  • @starwarsnewsandmemes8289
    @starwarsnewsandmemes8289 3 роки тому +1202

    My reaction to Kelly's party:
    That's a solid well-rounded party where everyone has a role.
    My reaction to Monty's party:
    This madman is a genius.

    • @ramnsesallen4375
      @ramnsesallen4375 3 роки тому +74

      *Everyone is everything and nothing at the same time!*

    • @brianromano9330
      @brianromano9330 3 роки тому +46

      Lmao I had the same thoughts. Especially bringing in the Clockwork Soul. 5 full spellcasters without overlapping class or subclass is insane.

    • @jonnichols6541
      @jonnichols6541 3 роки тому +2

      so its not just me then haha

    • @Jonathan0rtiz
      @Jonathan0rtiz 3 роки тому +18

      I am literally playing right now:
      1. Moon Druid
      2. Forge Cleric, Rune Knight
      3. Hexblade Warlock, Echo Knight
      4. Shadow Sorcerer, Necromancer Wizard.

    • @CallMeMrChainmail
      @CallMeMrChainmail 3 роки тому +17

      @@Jonathan0rtiz
      My players just hit level three and, after losing their fighter, it looks like I'll be dealing with:
      1: Moon Druid
      2. Tempest Cleric
      3. Glamour Bard
      4. Storm Sorcerer
      This is going to get complicated.

  • @wyattgehlen8251
    @wyattgehlen8251 3 роки тому +765

    Kelly: "I imagine my group uses their respective abilities to make each other better!"
    Monty: "My elves are going to break everything they encounter."

    • @matttt60
      @matttt60 3 роки тому +41

      AND 3/4 of them prepare spells, so It's like 300 spells available

    • @Maximum7077
      @Maximum7077 3 роки тому +6

      @Quintonir love it

    • @jacobmoll2878
      @jacobmoll2878 3 роки тому +3

      I wonder how well they would actually do in real play as opposed to theory

    • @TheAyanamiRei
      @TheAyanamiRei 3 роки тому +10

      TBF Monty's team can also really boost each other. I mean Kelly says "Oh I want all this healing", but 3/4 of Monty's team has healing.
      It's more like Kelly's idea is to create the perfect ingredients into a single meal, like a pie or sandwich or soup.
      Monty's idea is more like "I'm tossing all these amazing foods together because that's how awesome works"

    • @zacharyhumphries1707
      @zacharyhumphries1707 Місяць тому

      ​@@TheAyanamiReiThat usually is how awesome works though.....

  • @opus5770
    @opus5770 3 роки тому +846

    Monty: "the theme is... they're all elves"
    everybody gangsta until the whole party has Elven Accuracy

    • @jameshill2450
      @jameshill2450 3 роки тому +87

      And nobody needs to sleep

    • @DurandalsFate
      @DurandalsFate 3 роки тому +49

      "Hey guys, have you noticed how many battles we seem to get into against hidden enemies? They're all invisible or hiding or in magical darkness."
      "Or using Shadow of Moil."
      "Or Blur."
      "I swear we've spent half the campaign blinded, poisoned, frightened, or restrained."
      "It wouldn't be so bad if not for all the quests that took us underwater or into narrow caves where we're squeezing through spaces smaller than a Medium creature."
      "And when we're out in the open, it's always some sniper firing from very long distance."
      "It didn't help that we ended up on a mission through the Jungle of the Displacer Beasts, and all the villains in the stronghold there had crafted Cloaks of Displacement."
      "We should have seen that coming, and I guess we could've avoided the Battle Smith Artificers Guild with all those Steel Defenders. But why do so many bad guys have the Protection fighting style?"
      "I told you guys we should've just backed down from the fight with the Monastery of Patient Defense!"
      "Don't forget how the big villains always seem to have a paladin henchman using Holy Aura and Compelled Duel."
      "And so often we have to fight them after some grueling slog that causes us three levels of exhaustion."
      "I think we can agree that if we ever have a team like this again, let's make sure the BBEG isn't the head of the Divination and Chronurgy Wizards Academy before we pick our feats."

    • @camerontroscianiec5320
      @camerontroscianiec5320 3 роки тому +27

      Replace all of the classes except twilight cleric with elven rangers or fighters, then cast faerie fire and watch the slaughter

    • @PunknPixels
      @PunknPixels 9 місяців тому +1

      DMs laugh at rangers til they hit lv 4 with an elf background then all of a sudden faerie fire is a banned spell

  • @vancityband6577
    @vancityband6577 3 роки тому +575

    5:20 - Kelly: Paladins are phenomenal frontliners with support capabilities and can beat down.
    Moon Druid: *** Hold my deer ***

    • @Andy_Enderson
      @Andy_Enderson 3 роки тому +17

      Hexblade warlock: hold my eldritch blast

    • @davea6314
      @davea6314 3 роки тому +1

      If the Moon Druid can't have his deer held the result is venison for dinner. Lol

    • @jamesmerkel1932
      @jamesmerkel1932 2 роки тому +7

      Paladin: "Hold my Oath, it just broke"

    • @DrApylon
      @DrApylon 2 роки тому +7

      5th Level Wizard: Frontline, hold my fireball

    • @YAH93
      @YAH93 2 роки тому +3

      @@DrApylon If he ever comes that far, that is.

  • @ovgm116
    @ovgm116 3 роки тому +610

    Kelly: "My picks all compliment eachother"
    Monty: "I WANT TO BURN THE WORLD"

    • @mortisCZ
      @mortisCZ 3 роки тому +3

      Monty party would be visually glorious! DM by Michael Bay. :-D

  • @hseanhill
    @hseanhill 3 роки тому +852

    Monty's design philosophy "There's no problem that can't be fixed by throwing spell slots at it"

    • @DungeonDudes
      @DungeonDudes  3 роки тому +202

      Pretty much.

    • @AustinIuliano
      @AustinIuliano 3 роки тому +37

      @@DungeonDudes Antimagic field.

    • @AustinIuliano
      @AustinIuliano 3 роки тому +13

      @@ryanskinsgrove1890 Nice try Mr. 3.0 when wizards were even more broken with permanency spells :P.

    • @ryanskinsgrove1890
      @ryanskinsgrove1890 3 роки тому +9

      @@AustinIuliano XD XD XD
      I picked it up off of one of MrRhexx's videos, I didn't even know it wasn't in 5e until you said that. XD

    • @ryanskinsgrove1890
      @ryanskinsgrove1890 3 роки тому +11

      But yes, 3 & 3.5 spell casters are broken as fuck. XD

  • @fardareismai4495
    @fardareismai4495 3 роки тому +717

    Four wizard goblins in a trenchcoat. Sorry, that's been scientifically proven to be the strongest party, I don't make the rules

    • @vardmardrhrolfskogr9009
      @vardmardrhrolfskogr9009 3 роки тому +6

      Facts

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 3 роки тому +14

      You should start them with Artificer then 1-19 lvls Wizard. My thoughts Div, Div, Evoker, Transmutation. Two Divs to portent Against Legendary Resistance.

    • @Paul_Oz
      @Paul_Oz 3 роки тому +3

      it is known

    • @meikahidenori
      @meikahidenori 3 роки тому +10

      And here i thought it was 3 kobolds inna lab coat

    • @devin5201
      @devin5201 3 роки тому +4

      The goblin totem is a formidable party.

  • @maid_of_heart3261
    @maid_of_heart3261 3 роки тому +306

    Kelly's party: With teamwork and friendship we'll solve all problems!
    Monty's party: My drow dark maidens will kick your ass and you'll thank them.

    • @diazinth
      @diazinth Рік тому +14

      I dunno about friendship and teamwork: One angry holy man, an artsy politician, some gloomy guy you never see, and a neurotic nerd that knows everything bad that's going to happen? ^,^

  • @Zeboki
    @Zeboki 3 роки тому +425

    DM: "Alright, y'all are headed to the Anti Magic City."

    • @lukelblitz3627
      @lukelblitz3627 3 роки тому +43

      "alright then,guess we are going the other way"

    • @bigwig8657
      @bigwig8657 3 роки тому +13

      My exact thought, the ranger is the only one in either party that operates under loss of spells. Montes party also super reliant on not being denied long rest repeatedly.

    • @sirfishslayer5100
      @sirfishslayer5100 3 роки тому +6

      @@lukelblitz3627 No...the rescue/gold/monster to kill is in the Anti Magic City. DM smiles like Hannibal...and a little drool drips from his bottom lip....(Edit: Just joking of course. I just the thought of Hannibal as a DM made me laugh)

    • @FdMBIOSat
      @FdMBIOSat 3 роки тому +9

      so basically the argument is "as DM i can kill your party either way because i have everything at my disposal". if that is the sentiment then no party is any good ^^

    • @sirfishslayer5100
      @sirfishslayer5100 3 роки тому +5

      @@FdMBIOSat (Preface: In a home brew...my fav way to play) On the contrary...if the DM is just out to get the players, then the DM becomes lonely (cuz he will have no players/friends).
      The DM's job is to put fourth the world, the story, the characters/monsters/treasure....and let the players find their way in the world as the story and the adventure unfolds before them. Hopefully the DM can incorporate the backstories within the main story and make it personal to them. As a DM, I find that an incredible way to draw in the players. As a player, I love it and it makes it deeply emotional when you lose a character.

  • @bk74w80
    @bk74w80 3 роки тому +331

    Now you need to do the weakest party lol. Purple Dragon Knight here’s your opportunity to shine

    • @aidankavanagh7813
      @aidankavanagh7813 3 роки тому +71

      Purple Dragon Knight, beast master ranger, way of four elements monk, berserker barbarian

    • @Buttercar420
      @Buttercar420 3 роки тому +2

      LoL!

    • @sandmanlives3
      @sandmanlives3 3 роки тому +3

      I would like to see them do that video.

    • @anthonychase6906
      @anthonychase6906 3 роки тому +21

      @@aidankavanagh7813 berserker barbarian is actually very strong if you only use frenzy once a day on the hardest encounter especially if it's the last

    • @Livid72Des
      @Livid72Des 3 роки тому +4

      Am I hearing a place for ma boi OATH OF GLORY!

  • @LordTonzilla
    @LordTonzilla 3 роки тому +484

    Obviously the strongest party is the all cleric party "The A-Men"

  • @JohnW-yv6yp
    @JohnW-yv6yp 3 роки тому +457

    I think that Monty's party is more powerful, however I like Kelly's party more. While I understand Monty's design of everyone can do most tasks, I like Kelly's more classic party dynamic, Paladin as the frontline/healer, Ranger as damage dealer and explorer, Wizard and Bard for magic and buffs.

    • @user-dmiller
      @user-dmiller 3 роки тому +63

      I worry about Monty's team in an antimagic situation. Kelly's mix of some martial characters helps tremendously against that blind spot.

    • @Aarenby
      @Aarenby 3 роки тому +10

      As far as I know in 5e antimagic is pretty weak as the spell anyway. There might be something stronger in the DM rules though.
      The standard spell is a very limited area. also I think the earth elemental (FKA druid) would still function inside the field?
      Though in the flavour text it says "it magically assumes" so I guess it might be.
      The other thing is antimagic field would take up the casters sole 8th level slot (assuming they even know it) that said counter spell and dispell magic are valid concerns with a magic centric party (though the blade singer could counter spell in return or even counter spell a cast of anti magic Field)

    • @adamkaris
      @adamkaris 3 роки тому +12

      @@user-dmiller They have enough slots to just counterspell all day anyway. And the bladesinger is still doing extra attack. And the druid is still probably going to wildshape depending on the source of this nebulous "anti magic situation"

    • @johannortega101
      @johannortega101 3 роки тому +8

      @@user-dmiller I would worry more about Aoe fights in Montys party; cleric and warlock can suffer a lot from this, and bladesinger even if it has absorb elements can get really hurt. It would be wise that more than one Pj bring counterspell but still againts dragon breaths or similar that party can be on a bad situation.
      Kellys party however it has the divination wizard, and the bardic inspiration to make sure every that gets hit by one of this is only taking half damage. I think is better equip for more situations. and thats why i think its better.

    • @matttt60
      @matttt60 3 роки тому +7

      @@johannortega101 Yeah but the druid can use absorb elements too. I think Monty's Picks are better just because all party can fit all roles. Everyone could just attack from some distance whenever it's necessary

  • @aliasfakename7569
    @aliasfakename7569 3 роки тому +116

    Its like Monty and Kelly are playing with actions figures and debating on why theirs are the strongest

  • @fuzzygreentiger
    @fuzzygreentiger 3 роки тому +208

    I love the flavour and theme of Monty's build, but even as a veteran player and chronic DM, I love the simplicity in Kelly's build and would prefer a more "this guy has these jobs". I also love seeing players let each other take the spot light in different scenarios and Monty's mush pile doesn't help make that happen. It's tight, but I prefer Kelly's style.

    • @ranekeisenkralle8265
      @ranekeisenkralle8265 2 роки тому +21

      Fair point. But what I like is the redundancy of the mush pile. In a specialized group, if one member goes down, this means a critical vulnerability in the field that character used to fill. The mush pile, however, can more easily absorb such a loss.

    • @blingwraith6951
      @blingwraith6951 2 роки тому +5

      Yeah I think Kelly’s is more fun but Monty’s is stronger overall.

    • @ranekeisenkralle8265
      @ranekeisenkralle8265 2 роки тому +6

      @@blingwraith6951 More fun? I would argue that depends entirely on the players making up that group. Even a sub-par character can be insanely fun with the right player behind it.

    • @Badbentham
      @Badbentham 2 роки тому +1

      For me, some major issue with Monty`s build is that it combines 2 of the 3 notorious and unfun game-breakers, that probably need a major nerf: Twilight Domain and Moon Druid; only missing out on the Peace Domain. - Bladesinger and Hexblade provide fantastic flavor; the latter might be way stronger as a dip, though.
      - Kelly`s build is indeed far better grounded; one could only make an argument that Vengeance is - maybe - overall not "the" strongest Paladin kit.
      But, margins are already extremely small for such a power house of a base class. Divi, Gloomy, and Elo are almost self-explaining, though.

  • @P-diddykong
    @P-diddykong 3 роки тому +158

    I see Monty formed his party based on Syndrome's philosophy:
    If everyone has the main character syndrome, no one has it.

  • @LiberTea90
    @LiberTea90 3 роки тому +477

    To steal JoCat's joke, 5 clerics, call them the A-Men.

    • @michaelkluemper9765
      @michaelkluemper9765 3 роки тому +84

      My party’s cleric team all dumped intelligence, we were the clerical errors

    • @bloopsagain
      @bloopsagain 3 роки тому +16

      How about a team of bards pretending to be clerics: The Cl🤭rgy?

    • @innerbeast415
      @innerbeast415 3 роки тому +9

      DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT

    • @Johnrobertx
      @Johnrobertx 3 роки тому +2

      I came here to say this

    • @taRomi93
      @taRomi93 3 роки тому +4

      I still think that a cleic party should be called the C-men :D

  • @NickAgatha
    @NickAgatha 3 роки тому +298

    Kelly's was the ideal party that I would have thought of, but Monty's was the jaw dropping party that would never have occurred to me. Full casters with a strong physical presence that synergize with each other? CR thrown out the window.

    • @reedsmith8975
      @reedsmith8975 3 роки тому +14

      I feel like Kelly’s is the best if everyone shows up, but Monty’s is the best if you often run sessions with missing players.

    • @theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet
      @theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet 3 роки тому +1

      I stopped using CR s as anything other than a guideline a long time ago.
      I’m running for five players. Swashbuckler, moon Druid, life Cleric, storm hexblade sorlock, and devotion paladin. It’s fun

  • @cobaltlance18
    @cobaltlance18 2 роки тому +254

    We had a party once that buckled down on the Darkness theme and we had a
    Gloom stalker Ranger
    Necromancy Wizard
    Death Domain Cleric
    Shadow Monk
    And while normally that might not be very strong as a whole. In our campaign it was. Heh. And we had a 5th player come in late who decided to be a Spore Druid. And we just had a blast.

    • @YAH93
      @YAH93 2 роки тому +4

      Reminds me of my Tyranny of Dragons Party.
      Mastermind Rogue
      Grave Domain Cleric
      Berserker Barbarian
      Shadow Monk
      and recently added, a Wild Magic Sorcerer.

    • @ImAlexhearmemehYT
      @ImAlexhearmemehYT 2 роки тому +5

      If you want a super strong dark party, an oath breaker paladin is incredibly strong. The aura of hate buffs friends and undead, giving them a bonus to damage equal to the paladins charisma bonus. So you put your paladin on a mount with a reach weapon allowing the friends and undead can guard them. The necromancer wizard gets all their undead buffed in range, they can then summon greater demon, any hexblades get their specters buffed, any vampire players get buffed. If allowed you can play a variant tiefling with medium armor and still be able to fly concentration/spell free. If the paladin stops at 7 and multiclasses to hexblade they become Single attribute dependant, they can summon their own specter, and eventually their own fiends, and with invocations can add their charisma 3x to their attacks. And you have access to the paladin spells and slots up to 2nd level, and the hexblade spells, meaning you get to cast shield, invisibility, mirror image, counter spell, fly, and teleportation as a paladin using paladin slots, while you smite with your warlock slots, although smiting isn't my preferred tactic for this character at high levels. It can take a while to come online for the crazy powerful combos, but you'd still be a paladin for early levels, which always pretty good.

    • @Joker-yw9hl
      @Joker-yw9hl 2 роки тому

      That sounds awesome

    • @bananajoe9951
      @bananajoe9951 2 роки тому +4

      Wish our DM would allow necromancy or death based subclasses.

    • @cobaltlance18
      @cobaltlance18 2 роки тому +2

      @@bananajoe9951 your DM is a buzzkill

  • @yoelbendavid1711
    @yoelbendavid1711 2 роки тому +74

    I would love to see Monty DM while Kelly’s team go at tomb of annihilation and then Kelly DM while Monty’s tries the same

  • @oscarmadslien4853
    @oscarmadslien4853 3 роки тому +175

    Strongest Party - one who knows all their abilities!

    • @AuntLoopy123
      @AuntLoopy123 3 роки тому +4

      OMG, so much this!!!

    • @benjamindavies4960
      @benjamindavies4960 3 роки тому +6

      And ideally each other's abilities (but that's a pipe dream!)

    • @kinggorth
      @kinggorth 3 роки тому +2

      Facts.

    • @AzureIV
      @AzureIV 3 роки тому +2

      Woah now, be reasonable. Let's not get too fantastically theoretical here. This should be something that CAN exist.

    • @DazraelArianos
      @DazraelArianos 3 роки тому +1

      And it's always great when the person who doesn't know their abilities also then argues with 2 other players and the DM all 3 of whom have their books open literally reading how the ability works.

  • @tompadfoot3065
    @tompadfoot3065 3 роки тому +185

    Kelly: here's my pretty OP but also well-balanced party
    Monty: GISH GISH GISH GISH

  • @ginakim6748
    @ginakim6748 3 роки тому +240

    i loved seeing neither monty or kelly be at all surprised by each other’s choices lmao

    • @AuntLoopy123
      @AuntLoopy123 3 роки тому +1

      Seeing them bust into laughter was so much fun.

    • @miljanmatovic880
      @miljanmatovic880 3 роки тому

      Gues they are really friends... 😉

  • @RJWdevelopment
    @RJWdevelopment 2 роки тому +31

    Kelly made a great archetypical adventuring party, perfect for guiding a couple hobbits to Mordor or any other standard task. But Monty built an entire squad of killers that I can't imagine having to fight against.

  • @justahologram2230
    @justahologram2230 3 роки тому +100

    The all elf casters idea could theoretically also give the party access to proper high magic for lvl 20 and beyond, though we don't have any solid rules for casting the elven high magic in 5e

    • @StevenMichaelCunningham
      @StevenMichaelCunningham Рік тому +1

      It is attribute based or they do not survive the casting as a certainty. There is a ceremony of elixir's & tomes for example. Studied as one sips..no less.

  • @Hazel-xl8in
    @Hazel-xl8in 3 роки тому +236

    i’d love to play a game with a Battlemaster fighter, a Thief rogue, a Life cleric, and a Conjuration wizard. no obvious synergy, but the sheer thought of playing the OG archetypal fantasy heroes would be so cool.

    • @JoaoVictor-ic3ht
      @JoaoVictor-ic3ht 2 роки тому +16

      There's kinda of a synergy there Battlemaster manuevers can help the rogue to go roguish and do thief things in battle. Life cleric is always good and the conjuration wizard has great battlefield control to isolate the front guys (fighter and rogue) and have optimal damage spread while not needing to be that conservative playing

    • @killerbug05
      @killerbug05 2 роки тому +13

      @@JoaoVictor-ic3ht almost anything can synergize with anything in 5e, the problem comes in when you try and get players to work together strategically to actually make the synergy 💀

    • @virgiljericho664
      @virgiljericho664 2 роки тому +2

      Same thing but with all the default class options when you get DnD beyond. Champion Fighter, Evocation Wizard

    • @andressotil4671
      @andressotil4671 2 роки тому +4

      And it's a Human Fighter, Halfling Rogue, Dwarf Cleric and High Elf Wizard

    • @JoaoVictor-ic3ht
      @JoaoVictor-ic3ht 2 роки тому

      @@andressotil4671 honestly people need to start playing Vedalken Wizards

  • @cloudstrife8
    @cloudstrife8 3 роки тому +379

    My first thought watching this "Wow, either of these parties is gonna frustrate a DM."
    My immediate second thought as a DM knowing my players watch this channel too "Awww shit."

    • @Quandry1
      @Quandry1 3 роки тому +10

      Both of them are short circuitable. Do you need suggestions as to how?

    • @dragonking184
      @dragonking184 3 роки тому +14

      I mean if these classes exist in your world…..what’s stopping you from having an NPC/villain group that is made of one/both of these groups.

    • @cloudstrife8
      @cloudstrife8 3 роки тому +10

      I know how, it just feels like a deliberate punishment to them if I were to do so. And yes I've done the mirror enemy party strat before. My initial comment was more of an "oh God, possible trouble" vs "I can't deal with this"

    • @Quandry1
      @Quandry1 3 роки тому +2

      @@dragonking184 Nothing really does. You don't even need to necessarily set them against each other. Though through a twist of irony. These two opposing groups are well designed to foil each other. That's just one way to challenge either group.

    • @davidbeppler3032
      @davidbeppler3032 3 роки тому

      Campaign setting "space" good luck.

  • @pyrflie
    @pyrflie 3 роки тому +187

    Necromancer Wizard, Oathbreaker Paladin, Eloquence Bard (with Infernal Calling), and Twilight Cleric. The synergy between these 4 minion mancer builds is insane. The Party's army of Undead and Fiends is a force to be reckoned with.

    • @gustavochedid1137
      @gustavochedid1137 3 роки тому +13

      saving this for a BBEG party

    • @masonmysliwy8879
      @masonmysliwy8879 3 роки тому +1

      Dude, Fey Wanderer Ranger lvl11 ability, it’s awesome

    • @bleachfan9000
      @bleachfan9000 3 роки тому +6

      Sheppard druid wants to know your location

    • @icenic_wolf
      @icenic_wolf 3 роки тому +3

      Hopefully the Necro wizard took the metamagic feat so that he could twin simulacrum.

    • @ovbrook3057
      @ovbrook3057 3 роки тому +2

      Swap the bard out for a Sheppard druid and watch the DM weep underneath a mountain of HP, stags and undead

  • @ventusvindictus
    @ventusvindictus 2 роки тому +34

    Kelly's party: Dark Fantasy
    Monty's party: Sword & Sorcery
    I would love to DM for either of these parties or an equivalent party. Throwing CR out is basically my modus operandi.

    • @orestes0883
      @orestes0883 2 роки тому +5

      Has CR ever actually worked as intended at any point in 5e's life span?

    • @moekitsune
      @moekitsune Рік тому

      @@orestes0883 Honestly I think that the answer is no, outside of internal playtesting that's specifically designed to test CR

  • @IanDaviesRules
    @IanDaviesRules 3 роки тому +141

    I really like Kelly's group, they seem to really be well-rounded and fill their roles well.
    Monty's group is like a fun theory-craft for spellcasting synergy, but really has some glaring holes, I think. No dexterity or strength-based classes means that you're likely not going to be stealthy, not going to win initiative, and are pretty vulnerable to dexterity saving throw spells. Not to mention the fact that as soon as your DM sees the party composition, you can bet that the BBEG is going to utilize an anti-magic cone and nullify many of your party's abilities. Sure, it MIGHT be awesome IF everything goes to plan, but I think that the whole party relying on intelligence, wisdom and charisma leaves a LOT of room for their strength, dexterity, and constitution to be exploited.

    • @danielquest8644
      @danielquest8644 2 роки тому +6

      I agree, being a DM for a life cleric, a moon druid, a lore bard and a arcane trickster and going from 1-20 I can say that party is really powerful. We had a hole in damage dealing for a long time… but that party can solve anything. Kelly and Monty both do a great job of creating of talking about teamwork, that’s so important. I have run parties where everyone wants to be a wizard, or sorcerer and those parties may do a good job of optimizing a single player’s capabilities at level 20, but they will never survive because they all want to do the same thing. The reason Kelly’s list is so great is because the potential for teamwork is so great! Everyone is going to have tons of fun at that table! Lots of people say it would be hard to DM, I disagree, it would be awesome! This is because the party wouldn’t have a glaring “hole” that always creeps up to make some aspect of the game unfun and overly challenging. Everyone gets to shine. It’s great! There are many great parties, and you can get anything to work, my observation is that players tend to take it out on you as the DM if they don’t have the tools to succeed. So it’s just better if they have a good session zero and talk about how they can work together as a team and all the different situations and how they will solve them. That’s a great way to make an amazing group that plays together for years

    • @whodis5444
      @whodis5444 2 роки тому +15

      Bladesingers practically require a high dex score. If you're a hexblade, you're doing it wrong if you don't have at least a 14 in dex for the medium armor AC bonus. That's at least 2 mid/high dex builds in a 4 man party. How much dex do you really need?

    • @IanDaviesRules
      @IanDaviesRules 2 роки тому +2

      @@whodis5444 How about strength or con? Even with 2 dex builds, the better part of your party is susceptible to fireballs and meteor swarms.
      In reality, either way would bea fun game, and not every party needs to be able to meet every challenge imaginable. It just depends on your campaign. I also just really love barbarian, and I think they get unfair treatment.

    • @BW022
      @BW022 2 роки тому +7

      I disagree. Moon druid is the most stealthy class. Ignoring that it can assume highly stealthy forms, it can assume forms which even if seen will be ignored. (Rats, cats, spiders) It also gains flying forms. You also have a bladesinger, which is clearly a dex build. Plus access to invisibility and pass without trade. Enemy spellcasters aren't that common, but Monty has so many spellcasters with access to counterspell, absorb elements, and protection spells... I wouldn't be worried about it.
      And I see it as the opposite of 'according to plan'. I think Kelly's team relies too much on set roles. If that paladin doesn't block, the bard, ranger, and wizard are probably wasting rounds trying get of the soup. IMO, the biggest TPKs are when you make a mistake and get in the soup. With Monty's party, you have three classes probably fine in ranged, melee, healing, crowd control, area of effect damage, etc. and can switch on a dime.
      As a DM, I would find it hard to surprise or use a common tactic against Monty's which I know would get them in the soup, while Kelly's had an obvious issue -- anything which gets around that paladin causes issues. Surprise, hold spells, no armor, just walk around him, etc. and just swarming the rest. Sure, anti-magic cones, but that is rear and at high levels, presumably they get countered if someone tries it.
      IMO, Monty's is more flexible and I'd rather take a 75% solution which works 95% of the time, vs. a 95% solution which works 75% of the time. Yes, it might take an extra few rounds or resources to get through a typical encounter, but for a non-typical encounter which Monty is really well prepared for. His party is just so flexible.
      Finally, I'll add that Monty's party has better summoning (druid), healing (druid and cleric) and high short rest potential (druid and warlock).

    • @texteel
      @texteel 2 роки тому +5

      I am not worried about dex saves.
      They are mostly for damage effects, the moon druid has about infinite minus 1 HP, and the twilight cleric CD will patch anyone up. The bladesinger will have a naturally high dexterity, and if its elemental damage (fireball), absorb elements will more than save it.
      I somewhat agree about anti magic cone, at the very least it will shut down cleric CD and maybe 1 other PC. The hexblade can always default to armored up pew pew from 2 rooms over with greatreach blast, and the other 2 melees would rarely be not on the opposite sides of the boss (I am suggesting flanking [I hate it], but they would have 0 reason to group up).

  • @starsgears9200
    @starsgears9200 3 роки тому +296

    Monty's party: "Ooops, All Gishes"

    • @starsgears9200
      @starsgears9200 3 роки тому +18

      @@Dezbood I'd say it and Spores are the druid gish subclasses. Moon can switch from support caster to tank as needed. Sure, turning into a Mammoth isn't a classic "sword and sorcery" gish, but hey, who am I to argue with tusks?

    • @Alguem387
      @Alguem387 3 роки тому +1

      Full caster Gishes get the beat of both world's literally 0 weakness

    • @pattyofurniture694
      @pattyofurniture694 3 роки тому +2

      @ in my opinion moon druid is the one class in the game with the MOST hp

    • @chrism6315
      @chrism6315 3 роки тому +1

      @@Dezbood at level 18 they can cast in Wildshape, so at *some* point they would qualify I think 🤔

    • @maid_of_heart3261
      @maid_of_heart3261 3 роки тому +2

      @@chrism6315 A mammoth just tramples you and then casts Reverse Gravity on your entire party. Sounds festive

  • @PowerHouseProdigy
    @PowerHouseProdigy 3 роки тому +139

    I think whatever the strongest party is, it needs a Paladin of some kind. The Paladin auras are simply too beneficial. Otherwise you risk having that one saving throw that nobody in the party is proficient in.

    • @4Shaman
      @4Shaman 3 роки тому +3

      I think the same Bard at least for games with less combat. Bardic inspiration is such a Lovely boost

    • @patatebleue6408
      @patatebleue6408 3 роки тому +1

      U mean intelligence

    • @M0ebius
      @M0ebius 3 роки тому +7

      I agree and disagree. Having a paladin definitely raises the party floor due to survivability, but having another caster raises the party ceiling in terms of raw power.

    • @TheEmperorGulcasa
      @TheEmperorGulcasa 3 роки тому +4

      If we count multiclassing you can go paladin 6 sorcerer the rest and have a mostly full caster with all the main paladin bonuses.

    • @PedroHISilva
      @PedroHISilva 3 роки тому +1

      Artificer can cover the spot with flash of genius too. A party with both is quite cool

  • @wellwhatever2787
    @wellwhatever2787 3 роки тому +94

    I've always wanted to play `The Short Rest Party`. Basically it's everyone who regains their core resources on short rest. Warlocks, monks (ki), fighters (action surge, second wind, maneuvers), perhaps druids who often utilize wild shape (moon, spores). Also the combination of any listed in the multiclass is kinda part of the idea.

    • @eloisepasteur
      @eloisepasteur 3 роки тому +1

      I was going to write this. Way of Mercy monk Tabaxi and something like criminal for a load of infiltration skills. Celestial Warlock. Aasimar Hex + EB as main damage output, gives two healers/support characters. Fiend warlock. Gives those AOE blasts. With two warlocks you’ve got faces sewn up too. Wood elf sun soul monk. Probably something like outlander to get the explorer stuff. Gives you a plethora of attacks and Ki points, plus a secondary blaster.
      When you get high enough level your front rank combatants are proficient in all saves, decent AC immune to all sorts of things, and with the way of mercy can be quickly cured of loads of conditions too, if they do fail a save.
      From 7th level the Fiend warlock can fireball them and not kill them thanks to evasion for taking out crowds, or fire off an upcast scorching ray for that synergy with hex as a nova round.
      And the party never argues about taking a short rest!

    • @S0nyb1ack
      @S0nyb1ack 3 роки тому +3

      An oddball to this idea, but in my mind a good barbarian does want short rests. Ideally I personally want my barbarians to really have abilities to keep enemies on them (I'm currently playing an ancestral guardian who also grapples a lot, keeping the other members as safe as possible) and thus should take a lot of hits.
      Yes they have a lot of HP and half a lot of damage. But if everything goes right I take a ton of hits and do really want to spend some hit dice - my hidden short rest resource :P

    • @willemverheij3412
      @willemverheij3412 3 роки тому

      Could still be nice to have a rogue there, Rogue thief maybe? They can use items as a bonus action. Would also work really well with having so many pals there who are good in melee, so lots of sneak attack potential.

    • @sovelis7727
      @sovelis7727 3 роки тому +3

      The clear MVP here would be a genie pact warlock, allowing everyone to get their abilities back on a safe 10 minute rest.

    • @eloisepasteur
      @eloisepasteur 3 роки тому +1

      @@sovelis7727 I don’t like the other things the Genie Warlock brings to the table. If you play a game where short rests are threatened and shifting them from an hour to 10 minutes is vital then yes, it’s worth it. Otherwise I like the blaster-healer mix from the two patrons in the mix. Genie as a possible fifth would be a good call though.

  • @brabra2725
    @brabra2725 2 роки тому +11

    A suggestion for a video series for Kelly and Monty: one video per class where you explain how you'd build a 4-person party where everyone is a member of the class. It'd be super interesting!

  • @lordfeish1927
    @lordfeish1927 2 роки тому +21

    i would really like to see both of these parties made with 20th level characters face off against each other

    • @pendingchange3776
      @pendingchange3776 9 місяців тому

      pretty sure montys would kick ass tbh a party of 4 lvl 20 fullcasters vs a party of 2 half casters 1 full caster and a ranger will just be kind not have enough dpt

  • @greenhawk3796
    @greenhawk3796 3 роки тому +244

    A Moon Druid Totem Barbarian is the strongest party, and I guess they could have some friends with them or something lol

    • @ryanhilliker375
      @ryanhilliker375 3 роки тому +26

      "Guess I'll never die 🤷‍♂️"

    • @vardmardrhrolfskogr9009
      @vardmardrhrolfskogr9009 3 роки тому +1

      LMFAO😂🤣😂

    • @Chameleonradio
      @Chameleonradio 3 роки тому +5

      Counterpoint: Mindflayers/Starspawn.

    • @AvengerAtIlipa
      @AvengerAtIlipa 3 роки тому +5

      @@Chameleonradio Just be a resilient, Variant Human dude.

    • @mrjek01
      @mrjek01 3 роки тому +6

      @@Chameleonradio counterpoint: Emerald dragonborn moon druid totem barb. It may be UA atm but it will probably stay as is.

  • @Calebgoblin
    @Calebgoblin 3 роки тому +128

    "Party composition? What is this, SCHOOL?"
    -My party, apparently

    • @damianwhite7771
      @damianwhite7771 3 роки тому +2

      Bro...same

    • @Livid72Des
      @Livid72Des 3 роки тому +3

      We play what we feel! Somehow my group has a stat we all dump stat, this time it’s charisma! Last time it was intelligence... Honestly the whole thing is hilarious!

    • @nicholaslowry2366
      @nicholaslowry2366 3 роки тому +7

      @@Livid72Des GM: How can three adventurers at level 5 not have a neutral or positive charisma score between them?!
      The Party: They’re- The Point-Buy Economy is in shambles!

  • @mdp720
    @mdp720 3 роки тому +85

    I agree with Monty that his party fits better thematically. They're all sort of dark-mystical types, and could all fit neatly into a certain dark fantasy setting, where I see Kelly's party requiring a bit more roleplaying for the characters to get along, or an in-story explanation for how they mesh into their world. On that note, Monty's 5th should absolutely be a Gloomstalker.

    • @Pixel11235
      @Pixel11235 3 роки тому +5

      I feel like every single one of the players could have some form of dark "edgyness" to them. I feel like with the right group of players a group of slight edgelords could be fun

    • @DurandalsFate
      @DurandalsFate 3 роки тому +8

      Kelly's party is like the different sides of Batman's and Daredevil's personalities. They're obsessed with justice, but they have multiple ways of achieving it. The Divination Wizard is Batman's contingency planner / detective side. The Eloquence Bard is Daredevil's lawyer side. The Vengeance Paladin and Gloom Stalker are the brooding vigilante parts of both heroes' personalities. There's always a give and take: "We'll try things your way when it makes sense, but when that approach isn't the obvious one, you let me do my thing."

  • @nutterbutter9069
    @nutterbutter9069 2 роки тому +55

    My Thursday DnD group kind of has the off-brand version of the first combination:
    1) Vengeance Paladin
    2) Lore Bard
    3) Arcane Trickster
    4) Grave Cleric
    We weren't looking that hard at party composition when making those characters (and almost none of our character backgrounds or attributes were picked with optimization in mind, see: Arcane Trickster with the Acolyte background), but I'd say our party is more than capable of handling challenges beyond our level. I don't have my own dream team roster lined up, but in practice I can vouch for the fact that this kind of combination works well.

    • @michaelmravetz6276
      @michaelmravetz6276 2 роки тому +5

      The grave cleric is amazing if the group has a 1 or 2 characters that can do massive damage on 1 attack...

  • @Themurphyshow7
    @Themurphyshow7 Рік тому +11

    Monty, when you said that part about your party all being elves, they really formed themselves in a meaningful way in my imagination. I think it perfectly illustrates the conceptual and realistic approach to roleplay that you bring to the table. The world's you have built in drakenheim are as good as any other fantasy book or movie. And Kelly is great too obviously ❤️

  • @mechagamera2517
    @mechagamera2517 3 роки тому +104

    Strongest party? Literally any combination that actually communicates and works together. Our 6 player group is currently running an all bards campaign and we have all specialized in different colleges. Party is currently level 8, been playing since level 1.

    • @travisterry2200
      @travisterry2200 3 роки тому +6

      6 bards. Please tell me there is a variety of instruments and their cover is a traveling band.🎼 🎤🥁🪕🎻🎺🎸🎵

    • @mechagamera2517
      @mechagamera2517 3 роки тому +8

      @@travisterry2200 there is indeed a variety of instruments - we are a traveling group battling other bards in the Great Battle of the Bands. We have of course found ourselves in all kinds of non musical situations and shenanigans that we've had to escape. At present we are traveling to the next major city but have been trapped in a mountain pass by magically induced unseasonal weather that we are working to undo...with the power of music and violence

    • @travisterry2200
      @travisterry2200 3 роки тому +4

      @@mechagamera2517 beware the avalanche. Sounds like a hoot.

    • @mechagamera2517
      @mechagamera2517 3 роки тому

      @@travisterry2200 not gonna lie, we've had some very good and very poor uses of shatter in this campaign. I stopped using it all together once I started getting better spells (I play a Lore Bard with the spell sniper feat. It's all fireballs, conjure animals, and eldritch blasts for me)

    • @Quandry1
      @Quandry1 3 роки тому +1

      @@mechagamera2517 Communication and tactics are very powerful. They can turn some really tough encounters trivial. And not using them can turn some trivial encounters very powerful. As a DM I've had to adjust for both before. Definitely harder to adjust for the party that talks and gets used to understanding what they can do and quickly throwing together basic plans that might actually survive the first round than it is to tone things down for a bunch of uncommunicative "one man armies".

  • @obergfamily9049
    @obergfamily9049 3 роки тому +164

    DM: *Shows this video at a session*
    Me, the Twilight Cleric looking at the Gloomstalker Ranger: 👁👃👁

    • @rafaelg8373
      @rafaelg8373 3 роки тому +5

      I had a Twilight Cleric on a table with a Gloomstalker Ranger too, they worked amazingly together. We even had a Vengeance Paladin too. God I miss that campaign.

    • @jacobmoll2878
      @jacobmoll2878 3 роки тому +2

      Played a gloomstalker ranger/ twilight cleric 11th lvl total for a one shot. Used healing to bring the other two characters back to their feet three times while doing most of the damage and getting hit once myself. that party would be awesome.

  • @thehitchickersbro1
    @thehitchickersbro1 3 роки тому +129

    The strongest is one where everyone plays together and RPs appropriately

  • @MagusAgrippa8
    @MagusAgrippa8 3 роки тому +32

    One of my favorite two-person party is a Paladin and Artificer. Those two can have wicked saves and really fun combos. Both are tanks that can beat shite up. Monty actually reminded me that a moon Druid makes another really solid addition to that. I had a friend who played moon and he cast spells just as often as wild shaping. I actually like Monty’s party a lot, since it gives each player their own plethora of options to do. Having more options, to me, makes a group more successful. His party could be a rad group of Pallid Elves.

    • @UmbraKrameri
      @UmbraKrameri 2 роки тому +7

      One of my current parties was a little weak on the frontline and the Grave Cleric wanted to concentrate more on her spells, so we added an Armorer Artificer to buddy up with the Vengeance Paladin. Boy, did we overcompensate.

    • @52392daner
      @52392daner Рік тому

      Which artificer?
      I'd choose Artillerist as you get to add the protector cannon's THP every round.

  • @themagescorner
    @themagescorner 2 роки тому +20

    Montys genius move: with enough casters the enemy can’t counterspell all of them lol

  • @waldowallace9102
    @waldowallace9102 3 роки тому +44

    I really like Kelly's party, thought for sure he would win..... Then I saw Monty's party. That is a party I don't want to meet in a dark alley. I will definitely have to look at twilight cleric again. ;)

    • @Esperologist
      @Esperologist 3 роки тому +2

      Possibly a party you don't want someone else to meet in a dark alley near you.

  • @mikebieser4175
    @mikebieser4175 3 роки тому +85

    That all-caster party sounds disgustingly (in a good way) strong. Man.
    Watch out for a beholder, though.

    • @johnnyhammitt4543
      @johnnyhammitt4543 3 роки тому

      Anti magic shield

    • @DungeonDudes
      @DungeonDudes  3 роки тому +45

      A party of spellcasters can easily defeat a beholder, I've seen it happen numerous times since the antimagic cone can only face 1 direction at a time, and the eye rays themselves are magical, thus a Beholder cannot target characters in the area of its own antimagic cone. It's also unable to target invisible creatures with its eye rays, so my party simply casts Greater Invisibility on themselves and wins handedly.

    • @rottentothecory
      @rottentothecory 3 роки тому +12

      Yeah, you guys forgot that beholders always have a well thought out contingency plan, and they are aware of their own weaknesses. Arguably the most dangerous thing about them.

    • @2Cool2Geek
      @2Cool2Geek 3 роки тому +1

      Illithids and their ilk are always the way to take down any tough party. I lost 4 characters that way in 1 campaign 😅

    • @shadedergu9921
      @shadedergu9921 3 роки тому +1

      @@2Cool2Geek usually why running either a Wizard or a Bard with high int is necessary for any underdark trip. They thankfully cannot resist their own effects and bards specialize in psychic attacks with spells.

  • @eliasvernieri
    @eliasvernieri 3 роки тому +22

    A few year ago, we made an actual party of:
    Dwarf- forge domain cleric
    Gnome - Divination wizard
    Human - Vengeance paladin
    Half Elf - Lore Bard
    This was not "planned" but ir resulted to be RIDICULOUSLY OP.

    • @eliasvernieri
      @eliasvernieri 3 роки тому +1

      we ended the campaign and drop that group at lvl 6 after defeating a Beholder. And killing a Beholder with 4 character group at lvl 6 shows how OP it is :P

    • @rcschmidt668
      @rcschmidt668 3 роки тому +1

      It sounds fun!

    • @eliasvernieri
      @eliasvernieri 3 роки тому

      @@rcschmidt668 it was fun. But it becomed really challenging for the dm to create encounters that challwnge us but not tpk ... Because against creatures that had a changñce against us we where totaly unprepared. Like initiative becomed really the most important roll. On the other had against enemies we could prepare. They had almost no chance. But if we were caught unprepared the battle would be very short and we die...

  • @THEMithrandir09
    @THEMithrandir09 3 роки тому +8

    You should both design 3 challenges in secret and a party that can swiftly beat these challanges. Then you get together and see which party is equipped to deal with the other 3 challenge you didn't know beforehand. That'd be really cool. Like "take a gateway during a battle." Or "steal this scroll and replace it with a fake" or whatever.

  • @di4bolik4l
    @di4bolik4l 3 роки тому +5

    As someone currently playing a Gloomstalker Ranger - was glad to be included and get an honorable mention. LOL - I'm really having fun playing this class and really enjoyed the composition of both of your parties. I'm still a beginner/intermediate player, but I love coming here for knowledge and insight into DND.

  • @Xabtiz15
    @Xabtiz15 3 роки тому +27

    BBEG ambushing the party at level 1: I cast sleep
    Monty's party: We don't take that here.

  • @Himothy_Wayne
    @Himothy_Wayne 3 роки тому +107

    Well now I wanna see you guys breakdown 4 awful classes together for a party. And see if any of them can benefit off one another. That’s where the real math is needed.

    • @AuntLoopy123
      @AuntLoopy123 3 роки тому +7

      Seconded!
      Let's see if you can take four of the F classes you've critiqued, and combine them in such a way that it actually works. Because synergy IS a thing.

    • @kin2naruto
      @kin2naruto 3 роки тому +6

      Yeah - I do want them to take four "F" classes and pick spells/races/feats to make them synergize ANYWAY.

    • @willemverheij3412
      @willemverheij3412 3 роки тому +10

      They could make a movie out of that where the band of plucky misfits works hard to earn respect in the heroes guild, where the other parties are all existing of the best (sub)class combinations.

    • @lagg1e
      @lagg1e 3 роки тому +2

      Now there are the infamous 3. Unrevised Beastmaster Ranger, Way of the 4 Elements Monk, Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight Fighter. I can't think of a 4th class though that isn't going to be better in a remarkable way or better at everything at once. You could add a Berserker Barbarian that uses Frenzy a lot, but the party would become better at combat. The only other non-spellcaster would be a rogue, but it would round out the social capability of the party.
      You could just lean into one guy overshadowing the whole party and have a Paladin with medium con but high str and cha. Upstage them completely with vengeance or redemption subclass. Redemption gives battlefield control magic and bonus on persuasion without missing out on combat power. Vengeance gives teleportation and really excels at combat. Using blessed warrior fighting style to get the guidance and another cleric cantrip cleric for problem solving, along with a utility kit of spells. You only need divine smite to turn any spell slot into damage but you get the benefit of find steed(permanent intelligent pet dog or combat warhorse), dispel magic, locate object(find anything or turn anything into a tracking device), zone of truth and many many more.
      Every single of the 3 other characters will envy the paladin.

    • @willemverheij3412
      @willemverheij3412 3 роки тому

      @@lagg1e I'd make the fourth one a storm sorcerer, a regular human, not variant human so for that one the race would be pretty bad. Has the sorcerer's limited spell list and the subclass does little for it, being the only full caster means they have to have utility use which other casters are better at.
      For the other three I'd make them all races that don't give useful ability bonuses.

  • @Apfeljunge666
    @Apfeljunge666 3 роки тому +68

    oh my god, I just realize that I'm DMing for Monty's super OP party for my home game. Well almost. the Moon Druid has a single level dip in Arcana domain, the Bladesinger has more levels in rogue, the Hexblade is a Sorlock and the twilight cleric has a single level dip in sorcerer so he can cast shield. But at its core, its remarkably similar. And probably the reason I'm struggling to challenge them.

    • @dunkindognuts3345
      @dunkindognuts3345 3 роки тому +6

      Have them fight an adult dragon

    • @X23Natalie
      @X23Natalie 3 роки тому +3

      Yeah, that sounds like a rough time. I'd definitely start giving a handful of enemies Mage Slayer and/or Sentinel. Occasionally using counterspell or dispel magic might be good too (i usually only start doing this if my players start using counterspell as only one of yours can do this i might make an exception since there are so many spellcasters).
      Creatures that turn invisible or can use the ethereal plane can be a challenge too and will give your Twilight Cleric something unique to feel awesome about with see invisibility.

    • @tylercook-aitken8591
      @tylercook-aitken8591 2 роки тому +2

      throw something with high initiative that hits hard at them and it will crush them as moon druids are off tanks. i play in a lot of optimised one shots in a optimised west march and would never run this party comp as when the opponent gets the initiative shit could hit the fan so quickly. the party has no probing ability

    • @jayg9283
      @jayg9283 2 роки тому

      dunkin dognuts screw it, have them fight Tiamat

    • @ryanatkinson2281
      @ryanatkinson2281 2 роки тому

      Throw some traps at them?

  • @EraOra_
    @EraOra_ 2 роки тому +14

    Love this. Treantmonk’s Temple and d4: D&D Deep Dive should also answer this question and then you 4 should play a campaign with the party! The collaboration one shot was great. We want more!

  • @Bam31415
    @Bam31415 3 роки тому +8

    I like the idea of the twilight cleric, shepherd druid combo. Twilight clerics scale amazingly with the number of allies since they can just pump out temp hp at the end of every ally turn and the shepherd is probably the best at just flooding the battlefield with creatures. It'd be nightmarish to execute at a table, with the number of creatures and extra rolls.

  • @bigbrainenergyguy
    @bigbrainenergyguy 3 роки тому +37

    I don't know about 4 player parties, but for 2 players I suggest Oath of Ancients paladin, Moon druid. From a pure RP perspective it's great because both of you care about nature and stuff, but it's also great in terms of game mechanics: both can tank, heal and deal damage while bringing great utility with spellcasting and wildshape. The paladin covers charisma checks while the druid does perception and insight. Best of all, the paladin can take the mounted combatant feat and the druid can wild shape into a bear... so bear cavalry! They both get huge benefits from the feat, and this way the druid is always in range of the paladin's auras making the team highly resistant to spellcasters in addition to their general durability and healing. If you add a third party member, an arcane trickster is a fantastic asset that can fill whatever roles the other two can't.

  • @hecktate1763
    @hecktate1763 3 роки тому +42

    I like that Kelly's group has a little niche for each character but they're flexible enough to help each other out outside their area of expertise. Then Monty's party is just aggressive af, but also flexible if you somehow can't just beatdown everything with ease.

  • @dylandugan76
    @dylandugan76 3 роки тому +74

    Start with a Chronurgist Wizard and a Twilight Cleric and the other two hardly matter.

    • @WhiskeyPatriot
      @WhiskeyPatriot 3 роки тому +2

      The twilight cleric’s theme is Johnny Cash covering Sailor Moon theme

    • @WexMajor82
      @WexMajor82 3 роки тому +3

      Vengeance polearm master paladin, and scout rogue/horizon walker.
      Sensibly improved.

    • @M0ebius
      @M0ebius 3 роки тому +2

      If we are going with the most broken subclasses, then just add Shepherd Druid + Peace Cleric.

    • @reedster222
      @reedster222 3 роки тому

      Yeah I'd probably slap on a totem barbarian and a swashbuckler rogue to round it out.

    • @lemeow8102
      @lemeow8102 3 роки тому

      artichron wiz + peace cleric and a moon druid and i dont think losing is even an option

  • @corymoon2439
    @corymoon2439 3 роки тому +5

    The great thing for Monty's party idea is that you can pick any individual character from it and seriously beef up any party. You don't need your party to be on board with this optimization concept, you can help massively by yourself.
    And if you don't pick Moon druid then at least one other players is likely to, so you may have 2 from this list.

  • @MegaAniLinkFan
    @MegaAniLinkFan 2 роки тому +11

    Monty's list made me laugh and smirk. One, I play a Twilight Cleric, and play with a Moon Druid in a Rhime of the Frost Maiden Campaign. And two, I play with a Bladesinger in a super challenging but rewarding homebrew campaign.
    And I can agree from first hand experience that these 3 are extremely powerful. In my case as a Twilight cleric, I've been keeping the party alive and out of trouble with my eyes of night and channel divinity. Not to mention guiding bolt is just nuts. Cant wait to get Leomund's Tiny Hut.....

  • @Fusionchimaira
    @Fusionchimaira 3 роки тому +55

    Time to pit those 2 groups against each other to know the strongest 👌

    • @InLiquidColor
      @InLiquidColor 3 роки тому +6

      I legit would love to see this.

    • @dndknower
      @dndknower 3 роки тому +2

      Better yet, get an 8 person party and play ALL of them

    • @play.through
      @play.through 3 роки тому +1

      Could be a short series with a rotating cast between Drakkenheim seasons. A series where the two parties are racing each other to accomplish a goal. Then we can see which party fares the best.

  • @insaneirish231
    @insaneirish231 3 роки тому +34

    My issue with monty’s party is initiative could make or break an encounter at high levels.
    If a high level spell caster or dragon beats their initiative and drops some large AOE spells, the dex saves are gonna screw them.
    I think the most under appreciated thing about Paladins is the aura buffs to saves for those big spells to help your allies not get completely obliterated.

    • @danielwitmer3655
      @danielwitmer3655 2 роки тому +3

      I don't ever see this being an issue, though.
      This party combination is especially sneaky and with the Twilight Cleric and druid they have a pretty good passive perception. In most combats, they will be the ones who will surprise the enemy.
      They also should win initiative most of the time with the bladesinger. Hexblades usually have a decent dex as well. You are also forgetting about the Twilight Cleric's Vigilant Blessing ability that gives advantage on Initiative rolls.
      An additional thing to note is that even if you have not had a turn yet, you can still use a reaction as long as you are not surprised. So the bladesinger can still counterspell. And unless a spell, instakills the druid, they are just going to wildshape into a tank. At high levels of play, the Twilight Clerics aura is going to give a +2 to Dexterity saves as well.
      Kelly's picks have several issues and weaknesses. The paladins aura only affects 10 ft. If the wizard or bard is within 10 ft. of the front line, they are way too close. The vengeance paladins channel divinity only affects one creature, as well, and can easily fall short. This team doesn't have the same synergy as Monty's does with its insane stealth and high AC. The gloomstalker works against the party composition, in a way. If an enemy cannot target the ranger, they will go after the squishy bard or wizard. Kelly's party only has 1 tank. His party has pretty low AC and HP, and cannot come close to the damage output of Monty's by a long shot.

    • @davidebrindisi925
      @davidebrindisi925 2 роки тому

      @@danielwitmer3655 That's just kinda boring tho..

    • @danielwitmer3655
      @danielwitmer3655 2 роки тому +1

      @@davidebrindisi925 Maybe, it just depends on your style of game

    • @texteel
      @texteel 2 роки тому +1

      @@danielwitmer3655 I completely disagree with the damage part of your comment. Vengence pala can easily afford to go GWM, gloomstalker can melt things with sharpshooter.
      It should be monty who has worse damage. The hexblade can go critfishing GWM or hexblasting, but not both at the same time. Bladesinger melee drops off harshly, and moon druid scaling is all over the place.
      His most reliable damage source is the cleric's spirit guardians
      They win by attrition, under twilight CD, never dying.

    • @andrewjohnson6716
      @andrewjohnson6716 2 роки тому +1

      Our Redemption Paladin has literally kept us all alive with his aura up to ninth level. Which we know for a fact since last week he was too sick to show up and we had a TPK!

  • @MrJoseGBustos
    @MrJoseGBustos 3 роки тому +17

    You guys are amazing! I’ve learned so much watching your videos. Keep up the excellent content.
    Party Composition: (Masters of Time)
    - Chronurgy Wizard
    - Twilight Cleric
    - Echo Knight Fighter
    - Clockwork Soul Sorcerer

    • @DurandalsFate
      @DurandalsFate 3 роки тому

      I dig it! It wouldn't be surprising to see this exact party working for the Kryn Dynasty-with easy flavor tweaking to make the Luxon the source of the sorcerer's powers.
      You got your INT, WIS, and CHA checks covered, and for the front lines you've got a heavily armored/armed cleric backing up a fighter who can occupy multiple spaces and teleport to fight fires. For exploration you have great darkvision and the 3rd-level fighter being able to teleport 30 feet in any direction every other turn, and for that extra bit of help the party should pick up Guidance and Enhance Ability, which are easily probability-flavored. If you do stumble into more things than stealthier parties, you make up for it with initiative bonuses and re-rolling some bad rolls.

  • @cassandramaccarthy3337
    @cassandramaccarthy3337 2 роки тому +2

    the beauty of D&D is that experimenting and theorycrafting at both the highest meta-game level AND the lowest are super fun. I'd just as soon take this crazy bonkers optimized party into a campaign as say, a party full of Bards who are a rock band or something. Or a party where the tankiest player is a Fiend Warlock, etc

    • @Caiphex
      @Caiphex 2 роки тому

      Judging by the comment have you read Satine Phoenix's Better of the Bards? The all bard rock band?

    • @cassandramaccarthy3337
      @cassandramaccarthy3337 2 роки тому

      @@Caiphex a friend of mine played a party like it, that's where it came from. I hadn't heard Satine Phoenix did that, but it tracks that she did

  • @beverleybee1309
    @beverleybee1309 3 роки тому +10

    Confession: I've not played 5e yet. But Kelly's team has better coverage of possible events. Like being dropped into a vast area of anti-magic or warped magic fields, Kelly's team wouldn't be useless or defenseless.

  • @Observer31
    @Observer31 3 роки тому +52

    I would have loved an analysis of the "classic" party - fighter rogue cleric wizard

    • @bullroarer-took
      @bullroarer-took 3 роки тому +3

      Agree

    • @M0ebius
      @M0ebius 3 роки тому +1

      You can dominate most normal difficulty tables with just Chronurgist Wizard + Twilight Cleric. The Fighter really just needs to do single target damage, so probably Battlemaster with Xbow Expert+Sharp Shooter, or Echo Knight with Sentinel + Great Weapon Master. And the best Rogue is probably Arcane Trickster.

    • @AuntLoopy123
      @AuntLoopy123 3 роки тому +1

      Me, too! There's a lot of stuff to consider.
      When I started my group, we went right out of the basic Player's Handbook, so none of the fancy stuff.
      I figured, "Every party needs a rogue and every party needs a cleric."
      But, one person wanted to play a bard, and with the Urchin background, and choosing the skills, they practically are a rogue, at least for the "every party needs someone to open doors and bypass traps" bit. And the bard is a secondary healer, and utility! OMG, the utility! Plus, has access to Counterspell. And of course, the Bard is a natural face for the party, and great for negotiation.
      I always have, and always will love wizards, especially with their ability to collect spells as they go. Find a scroll? Give it to the wizard! But there are different spell lists to consider.
      And a lot of people complain that "a human fighter is too darned basic. So boring." But seriously, Fighters in PHB have some wonderful options! And it is really good to have a tank, you know? And you can have someone who isn't so smart, but follows orders well, or you can have the smart fighter who's all about tactics and strategy. Warrior versus soldier? There are a LOT of things to do with a fighter.
      And clerics. It's not just about healing. You could stock up on potions, and forego the cleric, if it were just about healing. Have you SEEN their spell list? And then you get into the different types of cleric. Trickery is AWESOME! You need some infiltration? Trickery! Not bad for exploration and negotiation, either. And you can face any undead with good cheer.
      So, yeah. The basic, classic is a good one, and it's classic for a reason, but I think our rogue-less group, with an urchin bard, will do just fine.

    • @Observer31
      @Observer31 3 роки тому

      @@M0ebius I've heard of people mixing the twillight cleric with a shepherd druid - the summoned creatures became super tough.

    • @nilsjonsson4446
      @nilsjonsson4446 3 роки тому

      If the Cleric goes down, the party is done for. You'd want to switch one or more characters to something with healing.

  • @weasel_in_a_tophat
    @weasel_in_a_tophat 3 роки тому +37

    Best party of 4: Monty, Kelly, Jill and Joe

  • @Otaconsps
    @Otaconsps 3 роки тому +7

    I'd love to see a party where the cavalier uses the moon druid as a mount or something! Put a beastmaster hunter in for good measure.

  • @deathtyrantart
    @deathtyrantart 3 роки тому +2

    Monty’s picks are relatively close to my party. Except for a War Cleric and a Necromancer Wizard. It’s absolutely unreal how much they can do. Also in an innately high magic campaign.

  • @ATMOSK1234
    @ATMOSK1234 3 роки тому +21

    1) twilight cleric pops twilight sanctuary to give whole team temp hp (level + 1d6)
    2) peace cleric uses emboldening bond to control who takes attacks, forcing monsters to only attack players with temp hp.
    The whole team is essentially immortal.

    • @nathanfosdahl7525
      @nathanfosdahl7525 3 роки тому +5

      Shhh...don't give away how OP the Peace Cleric is.

    • @jhayemdoubleyou
      @jhayemdoubleyou 3 роки тому +6

      This guy Treantmonks.

    • @M0ebius
      @M0ebius 3 роки тому +1

      Throw in a Shepherd Druid and a Chronurgist Wizard and you get the strongest party through broken mechanics.

    • @ATMOSK1234
      @ATMOSK1234 3 роки тому +2

      @@M0ebius My party currently has a twilight cleric and a shepard druid (me) and I can confirm that a pack of 8 raptors with multiattack pack tactics and regening temp hp is good.

    • @M0ebius
      @M0ebius 3 роки тому

      @@ATMOSK1234 Martial lul amirite

  • @marcusbarugh919
    @marcusbarugh919 3 роки тому +22

    At little surprised neither picked a Divine soul sorcerer. 2 spell list and getting metamagics for cleric spells is crazy.

    • @bloodyirishman9155
      @bloodyirishman9155 3 роки тому

      Clockwork and to some degree Abherrent Mind are just arguably better with far more spells known which is why Monty picked it.

    • @SuperYoshikong
      @SuperYoshikong 3 роки тому

      @@bloodyirishman9155 DS Sorc is a balanced concept of a wizard with healing. And wizard with healing is so op it's not even funny

    • @bloodyirishman9155
      @bloodyirishman9155 3 роки тому

      @@SuperYoshikong Or you could just dip one level in Cleric like almost everyone does to get that sweet armor and shield proficiencies and have access to all healing spells anyway.

    • @SuperYoshikong
      @SuperYoshikong 3 роки тому +1

      @@bloodyirishman9155 Almost everyone =/= your discord friends

  • @arcxjo
    @arcxjo 3 роки тому +35

    Monty's party is three of my primary PCs and a Bladesinger.

  • @S0nyb1ack
    @S0nyb1ack 3 роки тому +13

    Lets try this though experiment :)
    I would want to get a rune knight in - the cloud rune is an amazing defensive maneuvre, only once per short rest yes, but not only does it completely negate any attack, even a crit, but it turns it against the enemies as well. Fire rune can also keep enemies at your side, and just look at how much of an area you can cover with giant might and PAM + Sentinel, not much is able to pass around you.
    On top of that we have the really solid fighter damage - PAM + GWM (yes this is feat heavy, but if somebody can afford it, it is a human fighter) and a little bit of extra giant might damage as a cherry on top -> and ulitimatly cloud and fire rune protect the party and also deal some extra damage as well. And PAM + Sentinel + the size should weaponize the reaction insanely well, giving more damage on top.
    To me personally being "sticky" as a front liner is the most important aspect, don't let the enemies just ignore you and I think a rune knight is excellent at it, while dealing solid damage (beat down) and especially once we reach storm rune they are a great support character, giving advantage to allies for critical saves or disadvantage on enemies further buffing the effectiveness of the spellcasters.
    sorry for the lengthy intro :P I just looove rune knights.
    I guess it is hard to get around a Gloomstalker (I'll try to avoid the all full spellcaster party ;) ) ranger, since they fill so many roles as well, adding a great explorer bringing other roles to the table as well.
    So to really go hard on control/support/utility we certainly want a wizard or sorcerer (clockwork soul). I'll actually go with the sorcerer, since twinning haste is so effective - hasteing our gloomstalker and fighter. Probably picking up ritual caster at some point to get a familiar and detect magic for more utility and some "investigating". And of course we add a CHA class naturally, who can also subtle spell to cast in social situations, so it might be one of the best negotiator.
    I think we already covered all roles - some multiple times, but since we still have a spot free we probably just add anther full spell caster, honestly it could be any... bard, cleric, wizard, druid, etc. I want to say wizard, but honestly a Twilight cleric is just sooooo strong, so they might just be the right choise.

  • @camerontroscianiec5320
    @camerontroscianiec5320 3 роки тому +1

    I'm personally with Monty's group because A: I'm a sucker for spell casting and B: The sheer amount of support/ utility would be incredible

  • @geoffdewitt6845
    @geoffdewitt6845 3 роки тому +5

    This is a good thought experiment. I would love to see y'all do another video, describing "Here is how I would DM for this party, maintaining tension in each tier of play, assuming system mastery and tactical competence in the players."

  • @crimfan
    @crimfan 3 роки тому +13

    The Eloquence Bard is super potent as a buffer due to how inspiration works for them. If you add a Phantom Rogue you've generated one of the most potent parties in the game. If the Paladin is a Dex build, you're in stealth world with that party.

  • @Mrjosifal
    @Mrjosifal 3 роки тому +16

    I have nothing more to say than just that this was a very fun video to watch. Thank you guys!

  • @supersmily5811
    @supersmily5811 3 роки тому +8

    For Kelly's Picks: It's interesting that you picked Divination over Chronurgy, I've always been under the impression that Chronurgist is stronger because it works nearly as well for the dice control while also giving higher Initiative bonus, helping the Wizard escape unfavorable circumstances at the start of combat.

    • @dtczyk8976
      @dtczyk8976 2 роки тому

      Never heard of that subclass before. Is it homebrew?

    • @kaik625
      @kaik625 2 роки тому

      @@dtczyk8976 It's in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount

  • @MrSpeakerCone
    @MrSpeakerCone 3 роки тому +4

    Love the experiment! the lvl 1-20 specification makes me think that I'd like characters who "come online" on a staggered schedule so at any given level someone is overpowered. I'm also conceptualising this as a team full of mostly "support" characters who mutually support each other.
    Armorer Artificer (assuming you're using the Xanathar's rules for artisan's tools)
    Peace domain cleric
    Gloomstalker ranger
    Genie pact warlock

  • @user-yy7tw9hv9n
    @user-yy7tw9hv9n 3 роки тому +7

    Just made my first character, a Moon Elf Ranger who was apart of the Waterdeep City Watch for a number of years can't wait to bring him into a campaign.

  • @donbueker
    @donbueker 3 роки тому +13

    Battle Master fighter, Scout Rogue, Twilight Cleric, Divine Soul Sorcerer

  • @willmena96
    @willmena96 3 роки тому +30

    What about:
    Purple Knight Fighter
    PHB Beast Master Ranger
    Four Elements Monk
    Berserker Barbarian?
    That's a dream team

    • @DungeonDudes
      @DungeonDudes  3 роки тому +24

      Nailed it. We can’t beat this combo.

    • @xthebumpx
      @xthebumpx 3 роки тому +7

      No sane DM would allow this broken party composition.

    • @willmena96
      @willmena96 3 роки тому +2

      I need someone to try this out 😂

    • @frostburn3266
      @frostburn3266 3 роки тому +10

      Need a spellcaster and a negotiator in here, so let's add a Undying Warlock to the mix

    • @pogosoloHD
      @pogosoloHD 3 роки тому

      xD

  • @RicardoMoralesMassin
    @RicardoMoralesMassin 3 роки тому +8

    Kelly's party is chef's kiss perfect for Dungeons of Drakkenheim. Just absolutely perfect.
    Monty's party also is... if you want to blow up Drakkenheim.

  • @Ekair42
    @Ekair42 3 роки тому +2

    It's evidently a party of 4 clerics, a war cleric for the frontline, a light/storm cleric for the DPS, a trickery domain cleric for the subterfuge, and a grave/life cleric for support and healing

    • @lagg1e
      @lagg1e 3 роки тому +1

      My only problem is that war cleric looks pretty meh in terms of damage compared the best frontliners. As a tank and for utility I think forge domain is better.

    • @Ekair42
      @Ekair42 3 роки тому

      @@lagg1e he is very powerful in lvls 1-5, competing with the fighter, he falls off in terms of damage per round later, but he is still a cleric and can change to a support/caster frontliner, which is still pretty powerful

  • @Zahnpuppy
    @Zahnpuppy 3 роки тому +13

    before i watched this. my top ranked team composition was: vengeance paladin, divination wizard, eloquence bard, life cleric. but now i see the benefit of having a sneaky character.

    • @Dile0303
      @Dile0303 3 роки тому +2

      Since the paladin can be the face of the group i guess the bard is the one being kicked

  • @jeremybosworth2275
    @jeremybosworth2275 3 роки тому +9

    Funny that the first two of Monty's picks are a Twilight Cleric and a Bladesinger Wizard. The character that I'm running right now is a Drow Bladesinger Wizard with a two level dip into Twilight Cleric. She is an avatar of Eilistraee.

  • @paulolages6881
    @paulolages6881 3 роки тому +22

    Totally dig the elf dream team, the rp is off the charts!

    • @cattrucker8257
      @cattrucker8257 3 роки тому +2

      Thalmor spec ops

    • @JB-xl2jc
      @JB-xl2jc 3 роки тому +4

      @@cattrucker8257 "Don't you see?! Elven supremacy is the only truth!!"

  • @zomarleyonwriting8322
    @zomarleyonwriting8322 2 роки тому +3

    Kelly is the group I expected, Monty’s group speaks to my soul! I currently play a bladesinger and a twilight cleric. Really enjoyed this video!! Synergy is incredible.

  • @TimothyEdwards
    @TimothyEdwards 3 роки тому

    The second option - Cleric, Wizard, Druid and Warlock - fit beautifully into the background / concept of Eberron’s Valenar elves.

    • @TimothyEdwards
      @TimothyEdwards 3 роки тому

      (I spotted the elf link before it was brought up, but Eberron in particular has a lovely take on it.)

  • @LeNinjaDroid
    @LeNinjaDroid 3 роки тому +12

    The thing about single class parties sounds both interesting and hilarious. Hope you guys are honestly considering it. :D

  • @MI24CL3
    @MI24CL3 3 роки тому +12

    Glad to hear about the book coming out, I just started watching the Dungeons of Drakkenheim last week even though you guys inspired me since two years with your tips already :)

  • @Autonamatonamaton
    @Autonamatonamaton 3 роки тому +12

    After DMing for an Ancients Paladin from 3-15, I can definitely say they're a very strong addition to any campaign that features magic damage and should be considered up there with the Vengeance subclass when picking a Paladin

  • @TheAyanamiRei
    @TheAyanamiRei 3 роки тому +1

    I like Monty's team the most, due to the fact that each one is so powerful on their own.
    Yet they are all complimentary with each other as well, like how 3/4 of the team can switch off using healing spells.
    Not to mention Rangers tend to not be all that powerful, and I fail to see the advantages, that couldn't be replaced by some other class.
    Then again I'm the person who likes bolder flavors rather than more subtle ones, so *Shrugs*

  • @frankiedoe4437
    @frankiedoe4437 3 роки тому +4

    I heard for a two player party that a druid and a barbarian would be virtually unstoppable, presumably the utility and magic is covered, druids seem to have a little of everything and like you said even with the ability to become a bear or something would be very dangerous to any enemies, I believe this party of two is mostly suited to combat, however the fact they are both traditionally nomadic characters would be fun to play with as character dynamics.

    • @Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken
      @Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken Рік тому

      What's funny is everyone has the obsession with the bear, but it's arguably one of the weaker forms (not EXTRMELY weak, and still a solid pick, but there are so many better options lol).

    • @rail7646
      @rail7646 Рік тому

      @@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken I suppose you talking from a bg3 perspective based on the words used, but the bear in dnd 5e and in bg3 is day and night

    • @Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken
      @Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken Рік тому

      @@rail7646 I was referencing 5e, but the same holds for bg3 as well.

  • @Shichiaikan
    @Shichiaikan 3 роки тому +28

    Using your requirements, my choice would be: Vengeance Paladin, Moon Druid, Twilight Cleric, and Divination Wizard. The Druid, Cleric and Wizard IMO are 100% locked... the Paladin could be swapped for a number of other options, but the thing I like about having a paladin in this spot specifically is the buffs to saves, backup healing and social capabilities all in one package. Perhaps a Bard (Eloquence or Lore), Warlock (Hexblade, obv) or something else could fill in here cleanly, or even a Ranger... but... the saves. Oh, the saves.

    • @czcrossman
      @czcrossman 2 роки тому

      This is LITERALLY my same choice! Totally agree with you!!

    • @SirBangTidy
      @SirBangTidy 2 роки тому

      My list would be very similar to yours, but I swapped Divination wizard for Chornurgy and Vengeance Paladin would be a Hexadin multiclass with PAM and Sentinel.