So which subclasses? Eldritch knight, battle master, rune knight, psi warrior, echo knight, Samurai (duh) and arcane archer (?) or cavalier (as samurai are mounted archers by their very nature), Which subclasses do you think would fit best?
As someone currently DMing for an all fighter party, tools are often the solution to most problems. They're brewing potions like crazy. Creating traps. Extracting poisons. The eldritch knight is making scrolls whenever he can. And the rule where you get advantage when proficient with both a skill and tool has been a massive boon.
You should recommend the Skilled or Skill Expert Feats to them. Would really help them out. Or potentially offer it as a free feat if they spend some down time studying a particular skill or something. 👌
There's also an optional perk in Tasha's academy patron that can give everyone one extra skill (though it has to be chosen from Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion)
If you're feeling homebrewy, you might be able to spin this into a solution to the magic item problem as well: let them play Monster Hunter. Need to deal with a red dragon? Time to go hunt some fire-resistant monsters for their hides and make special arrowheads out of roc talons.
I once was in a Party with 2 Fighters, I was one and our new player. He was a Champion and I was a Battlemaster. I spend so much time giving him Advantage and looking those crits. Fighters together strong.
no way, i did a similar thing with a friend during a one-shot. we decided to roll stats in the same VC and ended up rolling near-identical numbers, so we ended up making two dumb-as-bricks Orcs. the older brother was a real show-off/braggart and the younger brother had an inferiority complex, but the older bro was so extra and distracting (Battlemaster) that it allowed the younger brother to just sneak in some strong hits while no one was looking. (Champion)
Can you imagine if you had two campaigns running simultaneously where one was an all rogue party and the other was an all fighter party? You could have the rogues gather intelligence for an adult that the fighters will conduct later, or have the fighters cause a distraction so that the rogues can steal an important artifact. The best part: if you’re playing two separate parties, you won’t know how the other team did until the following week, adding a smidge of realism and raiding the stakes of the interaction.
@@CyberDrewan So this is actually the reason Gary Gygax said you can't have a meaningful campaign without keeping accurate time records. It was in the context of having multiple parties interacting in the same campaign world, so their actions have the chance to influence what happens in the other sessions.
The Eldritch Knight could also pick Artificer Initiate and pick Cure Wounds for some healing! or maybe with so many feats someone can pick the Healer and Chef feat!
@@Zoddlander Or Eldritch Adept??/Initiate??? I forget the Feat name... For free Spells that cost no materials or spell slots to cast under Warlock Innovations not tied to Warlock Levels.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 MIght be better to just take Ritual Caster feat, because most of the invocations that the Eldritch Knight is allowed to take from the Eldritch Adept feat are available thru the spell list that the Knight already gets or can be taken in Shadow/Fey Touched! But Speak with animals(Beast Speech), and at will Disguise Self(Mask of Many Faces) seems real good! But it depends on the campaign too! IMO Eldritch Mind is unnecessary if the Knight is taking War Caster!
Hear me out: four purple dragon knights , everyone using action surge giving each other bonus attacks, healing the whole party with second wind, and never failing saving throws by sharing indomitable
The Rallying Cry is an interesting feature. It's not a lot of healing, but it is a long range healing that you can give to three people. When you need it, it's great, and can stop a TPK. You just definitely don't need it often enough, and you can only use it with your limited second wind. At level 7 you get basically expertise on persuasion. Good thing the party definitely didn't have a face for the past 6 levels. In an all-Fighter party, it's a little more useful. Level 10, Inspiring Surge, that's a great feature. Bring your favorite Rogue. Combine levels 3 and 7, make this the L7 feature. L15's Bulwark, you lost me again. Like rallying cry, this feature won't be getting much use. Collective mental ability saving throws just aren't that common. Unless the GM just wants the campaign to end, I guess. Like, the features are better than nothing, but only marginally so. I simply have to assume that they expected any player picking the PDK subclass to also get a bunch of non-mechanical, more narrative benefits related to being part of the Cormyrian Army, but just never mentioned it anywhere.
Just adding an alternative option: if you swapped the Psi warrior out for the samurai, you would have a party face. Gets proficiency in wisdom saving throws to boot.
@@LupineShadowOmegaI can see the merit of samurai as a party face. Samurai also has the added advantage of being flexible varying between melee and ranged. Now I don't see how psi warrior adds to social skills (the forced movement and controle from knocking foes prone is very useful, but this is also within battle masters wheelhouse) and doesn't have that many unique skills to add. I think it's a reasonable suggestion, depending on the party composition and in what way are the other roles filled by the other subclasses. Of course it also is only a suggestion, if someone doesn't like it they can just ignore it.
@@LupineShadowOmega honestly I'm joking around, sorta. It's only cause I'm a fighter main and the psi warrior is my favorite to build with. Just sucks cause so many treat it like a throw away so it doesn't get any shine on these UA-cam streets. Though the channel Enter The Dungeon represented for ya boy!
As you were talking about all-fighter parties being the opposite of all-bard and all-rogue parties, it game me a crazy idea for a campaign. Each player plays two characters to make up an all-bard (or all-rogue) and all-fighter party All the characters are working for the same military or law enforcement organization. Each game session is either a bard session or a fighter session. The bard sessions involve infiltration and espionage, with only minimal combat. The information they gather produces targeted "kill the bad guys" missions that are then carried out during the fighter sessions. Probably only good for experienced players who are capable of switching off between two characters, but it could be a blast.
I think a lot of the observations about a Fighter party's weaknesses in combat are a commentary on the value of the Art of War as a philosophical text. Sun Tzu's ultimate point is that in order to win a fight you really need to maneuver your opponents into the position most advantageous for you. If you've executed the principles correctly, the battle is won before a blade is drawn. I think that's how the Fighter party has to approach the game across the board. In all ways, approach with strategy. In a world of dangerous lands and deadly monsters, your single greatest weapon is always your mind.
_Sigh_ This really makes me wish 5e had an intelligence-based martial somewhere in there. PF2e's Investigator can be made into a pretty ballin' military strategist, and Level Up: Advanced 5e has some very interesting tactical options for a mindful fighter, especially with the Marshal class and the Sanguine Knot combat tradition.
This keyed me in to why I felt profoundly dissatisfied with the composition of the All Fighter party. Fighters have such specific weaknesses that it is actually the suboptimal choices that make a better rounded party. They go out of their way to talk about how overkillingly strong the All Fighter party is in combat--that means you can actually dial some of that back for more versatility. Every member of the party could have some access to magic. Ritual Caster (Druid in particular) gives a lot of utility options. Extra feats and lots of options beyond the reflexive combat feat combos.
Agreed, what a fighter lacks in spellcasting and skills they can make up for it in their feats. When you can get up to 7-8 feats per player, there are plenty to go around for expertise here, magic initiate there, and even some of the more minor feats such as healer, inspiring leader, or chef can be pretty useful. Lots of cool aspects that you wouldn't normally find in any other type of party.@@cenauge
@@ikaemosyou don't need a high intelligence score to play a smart fighter. You don't need a PhD to be strategically smart. I don't think I've ever played a fighter that doesn't at least have a 12 in either wisdom or intelligence. That's more than enough to role play your character as a smart or wise person. You don't need 16s or 18s for that to make sense. Fighters are supposed to play the game smartly, you don't get the cheat codes some other classes get to brute force yourself through. The fighter is kinda just a person that happens to be pretty tough. Most action heroes are fighters, and they need to think and be smart as well. That doesn't mean a fighter with intelligence based abilities wouldn't be cool though. I'd love to see more non magical reasons to have mental stats. The inquisitive and swashbuckler rogue are the only non magical mental state based subclasses I can think of (and there's the monk of course) but none of these are intelligence based. Something along the lines of the 4e warlord would be pretty cool. Some kind of tactician subclass.
These videos are honestly so much fun. But I think y'all once again made a huge oversight. I noticed it with the "all monks" video too when you ignored 4 elements, but subclasses that are weaker on their own can actually be AMAZING in a party that's all one class. For this one, the big miss for me was the Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight. If you've got one fighter in a party, they're never gonna be my choice. But in a party full of fighters? Literally every single feature they get is crazy useful. They have a mass heal as a bonus action. They can give their party reaction attacks so that those 32 attacks actually become 35. They can save the party burning their Indominable rolls. AND they get expertise in persuasion, so they can be a face. Make 'em a changeling or give them the Mask of Many Faces as a feat and you are covered.
My alternative would be: Echo knight taking chef feat and proficiency in healers kit, making them the combat medic because they can send their echo in to administer a potion or healers kit without risking themselves. Eldritch knight takes all the feats that give them spells, and they use a one-handed weapon taking the dueling fighting style for if the need arises that they're out of spells and need to stab Rune knight takes the polearm and surprises of all is the only one taking gwm and being str based. Finally battlemaster (it has to be in the party) being sharpshooter, because trip attack and commander's strike work with ranged weapons. Now you have a party that performs against ranged attacks, and the eldritch spellcasting buffed with feats, and you have a healer that isn't too bad with a bow.
Regrettably, I don't believe that the echo can be used to heal or take most non-damaging actions, as this would cause a few problems regarding resources: Potion overuse. A pedant can easily claim "My echo used one of his potions, not mine, so I still have all of my potions!" This would mean that an Echo Knight with a single potion could restore all of the HP of the party, even if everyone is low. Alternatively: Echo Knight Yo-Yo Healing. Similarly to the first example, assuming it's ruled in that way, the D.M. can go "Okay fine, but the healing only persists until your echo is destroyed." This would cause problems with incentivizing the fighter to keep the echo alive over himself; ruining the core point of the class in the first place and making the player feel like they don't even have a subclass at all, assuming that the party needs the healing in that moment. Also, fights where the players need to pull a lever or remove an item from a pedestal would be trivialized if you play an Echo Knight.
Everybody takes Blind Fighting fighting style, Eldritch Knight drops Fog Cloud, Sewer fight scene from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990 film) commences. 😆 Also, you could take Magic Initiate (Druid): Goodberry, Guidance, Shillelagh - bring back downed allies, get a little bonus to your ability checks, and one member can have wisdom as their main ability score.
I played both eldritch knight and rune knight these both struggle to shine cause what they do can be done better by others or equally but from my experience Eldritch knight is better out of the two subclasses because the fact of the spell sword build or mystic tower build. Let me explain this is how I build these two combos. For the mystic tower build I go with shield to enhance AC go with plate and tank your primary damage is magic or you use some kind of utility. Spell sword we all know this build but I took a interesting twist feat artificer adept take Arcane weapon to add magic damage early on in your career greenflame blade to add extra fire damage and if you were hit by a damage spell absorb elements to add extra magic damage I end up doing 30+ damage in 2 attacks by level 5 that's the power this build has take war caster to use a spell as a reaction to a enemy leaving your threat zone I use lightning whip to do damage and drag the opponent back into your threat zone. Go spearmaster and you can do this multiple times until they disengage
Y'll complete forgot about the Rune Knight when talking about the skills section. Rune knight gets: - Cloud: Advantage on Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) checks and Charisma (Deception) checks. - Frost: Advantage on Wisdom (Animal Handling) checks and Charisma (Intimidation) checks. - Stone: Advantage on Wisdom (Insight) checks, and you have darkvision out to a range of 120 feet. - Storm: Advantage on Intelligence (Arcana) checks, and you can't be surprised as long as you aren't incapacitated. This doesn't fill all the skill holes in this Party, but it sure helps. Don't forget that Advantage on a skill counts as a +10 to Passive senses with that skill.
@rcschmidt668 Well, yeah.... all the runes have amazing in combat benefits. But I'm just pointing out that they just didn't even consider these passive the Rune Knight has. He essentially could be the skill monkey for the party. Taking the Skilled and Skill expert feats could really help a lot too. And if the Rune Knight put more stats in Wis or Cha, it wouldn't be that bad. Not amazing, but not bad at all.
Hah! Nice timing on this one! I recently finished an all-Fighter run through BG3. Tav (bow) and Laezel (GWM) were both Battle Masters, Shadowhart was Eldritch Knight, and Karlach was a GWM Champion (with stacked bonuses to lower the number for a crit even further). Between each of them getting their normal attacks, Speed Potions, and Action Surge, it was a blood bath.
Bro this is exactly what i was thinking when seeing the video. Perfect combo subclasses and fittig to their personalities. 👌 Nice harem that you build there 😏
Started doing the same thing couple days ago, though i went half way with shadowheart and made her a vengeance paladin. Dialogue sucks now that im not ilmater's favorite cleric though. "LESS TALKING, MORE RAIDING!"
Something I feel like you failed to mention is that each one of them has 2 extra ASIs. They could take Skill Expert to mitigate that persuasion issue. Suddenly, their +1 is now a +9. Every single one of them could take magic initiate and have guidance or find familiar. They could take healing word or goodberry for that emergency healing.
Depending on how many ASIs they need for their basic build you can even pull off a bit more Eldridge initiate for devils sight Magic initiate Artificer Initiate Shadow/Fae touched Even Fighter initiate for a second fighting style. Also this is for tables that allow them but there are backgrounds that give access to feats and if you play with it a bit you can find something that you would want. Also if you're playing human that feat there could be helpful there also.
@nickm9102 my point was that fighter has 2 additional ASIs that other classes don't get. All classes get 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19 (5 total), but rogues get an additional one at 10 (6 total), and fighters get additional ones at 6 and 14 (7 total). These 2 extra ASIs weren't mentioned, and really add to the versatility of the group They mentioned not having invisibility. The eldritch knight could pick it up with Shadow Touched, along with Silent Image or Disguise Self, even rounding their int to am even number. They mentioned lacking face skills, the battlemaster could pick up Skill Expert to gain expertise in persuasion and a +1 to a stat. The Eldritch Knight, as a dex build, could take it for stealth expertise. Ritual Caster on the psy warrior or Eldritch Knight could allow for all sorts of rituals to help with exploration. Find Familiar, Tiny Hut, Divination, detect magic, identify, phantom Steed, water breathing, Telepathic bond..... the battlemaster needs a 12-14 cha, but one of the others could swing a 13+ int or wis for the feat. The point is, a big class feature of fighters is their extra ASIs. Ignoring that nerfs already (relatively) weak (outside of hitting stuff) fighters into what they described: characters only good at combat.
@@crownlexicon5225 Not disagreeing, I was looking at it and if they are only taking one stat to 20 that would make the two additional ASIs perfect for what you said I was also exploring options for those builds that might need to use the ASIs for abilities over feats.
This is exactly what I was gonna say! With the extra feats fighters get they can take Skilled & Skill Expert. Doesn't even need to be on the same character. Give the eldritch Knight who's got a decent wisdom proficiency in investigation, history & arcana. Give the elf with perception proficiency Observant or Skilled so they always get advantage or expertise. Plus their base stats don't have to suffer.
These are always fun to watch. Although, I'd really like to see the inverse of this concept: a "worst party made good" video. How do you take a Purple Dragon Knight Fighter, Undying Warlock, Four Elements Monk, and Mastermind Rogue and build an effective team? If you're DMing, how do you subsidize or lean-in on the party's shortfalls to create a fun campaign playing subclasses that are rarely chosen? What are some good examples of setting up scenarios that allow players with trap subclasses to use their typically useless class features?
This would be a really interesting one. Basically take any of the subclasses that scored a D in their ranking and make a four person party out of those choices.
PDK can give a couple of reaction sneak attacks to the rogue so there is some synergy there 4E monk can blow their entire stockpile of ki with fist of unbroken air to deal a big blow of damage to the biggest threat acting like a true skirmisher undying warlock just doesnt help the party at all, isnt there another spellcaster (even a one third caster) that can help the monk land stunning strikes?
Give your dexterity Eldritch Knight the Urchin background for stealth, sleight of hand, and thieves' tools proficiency, and they can be the party thief as well.
The first session of what would eventually become our D&D group was a 3rd edition dungeon crawl filled with five first-time players (I was DMing and the only one who played D&D before). They all picked martial classes, I was not going to run 3 npcs to round out their group (cleric, rogue, wizard) so I thought of the three what did they need? I figured they can make do with healing potions for healing and gave them a rogue for disarming traps and picking locked doors open and let them loose. Our group is about 23 years old now.
Edlritch Knight: Buff their INT for those INT skills, too. Getting Fey touched, Shadow Touched, Telekinetic and Telepathic means the Edritch Knight has way more spells on deck. Plus added benefits of undetectable communication. Rune Knight: Buff their WIS for those Wis Skills, +all the Rune Passive Effects they get. They become the skill monkey with Skilled/ Skill Expert Feats. Go Samuari over PSI 100%. Samuari makes a WAY better Archer than PSI. Plus you Buff their Cha and they become party Face with their Persuasion proficiency. Battle Master is good as you presented it. He should be the True Damage Dealer. GWM, PAM, Sentinel. The Works. This easily takes the All fighter party from a C to a B. No need to make all the fighters Max STR and CON. Yes they need these things but you can sacrifice to get the skill stats your need plus appropriate Feats.
I think this hypothetical really highlights a few things: you don't need to be min/maxed to be successful but people pretend that's the case. You can be a Fighter with a +1 Char and do just find in social encounters and have one less +1 in your core fighting stat and take out enemies still. Then there's the ability scores used for a skill problem. You have never had to JUST use Charisma to intimidate. Your hulking brute fighter can smash a wall with their hammer to drive home a point to someone. That's RAW and your DM just has to decide it's applicable. A fighter with high Dex doing the knife/hand game at a table can intimidate just as easily too. Half the fun of playing the game is succeeding where there's a risk of loss.
Yeah, I once played as a multiclassed rogue with expertise in 12 different skills and reliable talent. Lets just say there was really no risk of loss when it came to skill checks, when pretty much every roll is an autopass.
I think you overlooked one tiny little under appreciated item+feat: The Humble Healers Kit. Seriously. I know it seems like basically nothing at first glance, but with the Healer feat my current party (that has no cleric or Druid) is wondering how they got along without it. And I’m just using a Monk. If I had action surge I could be contributing much more. It’s practically made for the all fighter party. I’d also build a fighter party differently to how you guys did. Eldritch knight I’d keep, Battle Master I’d make the archer, psi warrior I’d make dex/int duelist type fighter, and I’d drop the rune knight for a Samurai great sword user. Polearm master + Sentinel is amazing… when you’re trying to keep the enemies away from your party. This party doesn’t want the enemies staying away. They want the enemies up close where they can turn them into paste. As for exploration and social, I think the sheer number of feats/ASI this group gets makes up for it easily. They can all have expertise in something. Samurai is the face and the leader with his wisdom boost to social. The only thing they’re really gonna be lacking on more than anyone else is the knowledge based skills. (I’m not counting Rogues or Bards because no one compares to them as skill monkeys.) Overall spellcasters are not much of a threat unless they go first, as they won’t survive (unless there’s a lot of them). And even then it only takes one fighter escaping that crowd control spell which they’re very likely to do with 8 attempts between them, and the caster is gonna being making 8 concentration checks assuming they even survive. Even with warcaster that’s a tall order. Flying enemies are a problem, but that’s why we have 2 dex fighters, so the second one can put his sword away and whip out a bow. Might not have sharpshooter (or maybe he does!) but it’s still better than javelins. Also items. They’ll still have heavy reliance on items… but you can’t have everything. I’d grade the all fighter strike force swat team at a high B. I think you overlooked a lot of what can be done with all those feats and ASIs, and you’re too hung up on polearm master to see it’s not right for everything.
The best thing of the fighter is the ASI, and this can solve the problem with social and exploration moments. Just take the skill expert feat for everybody and choose the right expertise to fill those gaps! Same thing for healing, take the healer feat and some healer's kit and it should be fine! Great video btw!
If you don't have problem with spanish or using a translator I recommend the third party work "El Arsenal" of the proyect "Dragones de la Sexta Edición". It's a document compatible with 5e with 173 weapons the existing ones and new ones and also new fighting styles, properties, feats, etc. Also works as a Quick history guide with the real use and origin of the weapon. All for 9,99€.
I’d personally add echo knight over psi warrior for some scouting abilities later on and to have another teleport ability available. Psi warrior it a solid choice though and one of my favorite subclasses
Yeah, best suggestions I have are to capitalize the feats, apart from the crazy amounts of attacks, the crazy number of feats are what really sets fighters apart from the rest, getting 8 feats as a variant human, and its okay to treat it similarly to rogues, where each build will have its specialization. I would also suggest magic initiate as well for a feat, magic initiate in cleric will go a long way with things like guidance and bless. You can even pick up expertise as well. Feats are what really makes fighters so versatile as a class.
I think battle master makes a better archer than a melee striker. Also purple dragon knight would be pretty useful in an all fighter party. Not to mention arcane archer which has great battlefield control options other subclasses really lack
I’d really love to see that commando squad you described in a campaign. Just 4 regular guys scared but soooo trained to take down magical enemies with a quickness.
I play a fighter A LOT and almost every one of my fighters carries a Bow and Arrows if they can. My new favorite is the Medieval War Bow, a re-curved short bow with the range of a long bow and is used to whittle down enemies at range to make melee combat faster.
If I was in an all Fighter group, I think I’d go with a Half-Elf Samurai Fighter (with the Outlander background, for theme), and take Magic Initiate Druid asap for Shillelagh, plus whichever 2nd cantrip would patch a hole best (probably Guidance or Produce Flame) and Goodberry. That little bit of healing that can come in clutch, and you can build around Wisdom, which is huge for this group. It also synergizes super well with Elven Accuracy, since the 3 dice on advantage benefit applies to any Shillelagh weapon. I’d also try to fit in PAM later on.
echo knight with hex for dps, rune knight unarmed fighter as a tank/grappler, eldritch knight for area denial and utility spells, and a purple dragon knight with the healer and skilled feats for support/utility
The all fighter party sounds like the most fun of all of these. With a creative GM, smart players and a patron that tells the party roughly half of what they need to know to get the job done, I can see great things happening.
so idea: for the eldritch knight, play a Mark of Healing Halfling... it adds Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Prayer of Healing, Aura of Vitality, Mass Healing Word, Aura of Purity, Aura of Life, and Greater Restoration to your spell list. (this also works with the arcane trickster rogue for the all rogues party, as well as any spellcasting class that doesnt get healing like wizards.. obviously for eldritch knights and arcane tricksters you cant use the greater restoration but for other classes) with that said, my all fighter party would be eldritch knight as my archer (mark of healing halfling, used to stay back and heal as needed while still being able to attack), battlemaster polearm master (take a flying race, letting you get into range of other flying creatures so you can trip attack them to knock them out of the sky if they're large or smaller. the older aarakocra that has a 50ft flight probably best so you can chase down flying creatures.. if you cant use the older aarakocra than winged tiefling so you can still have medium armor.. you could even apply a lineage on top of these races, either at creation if your dm allows or try to become one shortly after the start, and gain a few extra bonuses without losing too much. hexblood might be good to gain the hex spell for extra damage), rune knight gwm (probably take bugbear for greater reach and suprise attack, or a race with Savage Attacks like half orc. also, this would probably be best for your charisma character as some of the runes give advantage to certain cha checks.. might even be worth being more of a glass cannon with con as your third stat instead of second just to have a slightly better cha score. having the mark of healing on your team would make this far less punishing), and echo knight as my dex sword and board tank. (probably also a flying race, having the echo to help be a target and letting you switch to its location or use it to intercept attacks really lends to protecting allies.. also you can use the echo in exploration, letting you see/hear out of it and scout ahead without fear of it dying. if you take a flying race that'll let your echo fly and since your dex based you can get proficiency in stealth and be a great scout.. fairy probably best for this option as that'd also give a few utility spells like fairy fire and enlarge/reduce.. you can reduce yourself then go scout with your echo and be smaller than normal to be able to hide in much smaller locations as you spy) also, you mentioned a few feats but since fighters get more feats than any other class you have options to take a few extra feats that you normally wouldnt take (as normally, while good, they'd use up feat options best used for asi or better options.. feats such as resiliance to gain an extra saving throw proficiency or skills expert to get expertice in a skill. throw skills expert onto the echo knight listed above and take stealth and now you're getting double proficiency on your stealth checks while you scout with your tiny flying echo.. thats really good for a scout..)
One really fun campaign idea with all fighters: a tournament campaign like “A Knight’s Tale”, but where the whole party participates. You can have an archer, a brawler, a fencer, and, of course, a jouster. This works so well with fighters specifically because they’re so versatile, and multiple party members can participate in multiple events.
Y’all _really_ slept on the Rune Knight. Like yes it’s mentioned but it has a Charm _reaction_, it has an ranged or melee Restrained free action, yes they are once per long rest but that’s still amazing for a fighter party
Man, I like what you guys presented here, but I'd go with the following: Battle Master - Archer (need to bring down the dragon? 4 trip attacks coming their way) Rune Knight: Shield + Unarmed Fighting (Big, tanky, meaty, holds foes in place and can still attack while doing so) Eldritch Knight: GWM (tanky, lots of damage and spells for the right situation) Echo Knight instead of Psi Warrior: PAM + Sentinel (hella control, crazy damage and fantastic utility/exploration) Fighters also have a lot of ASIs, so just add some stuff like Alert to the grappler or Fey Touched to the Eldritch Knight and suddenly their combat becomes even more versatile
I second this: battle master could command from the back. And once he has Sharpshooter, his other ASI can go to Skills or magic to help skill. Same with the Rune Knight. He would be free to pick whatever skill the team needs like Healer or Gift of Metal dragons. Then the Eldritch Knight is very flexible in the support role since it has spell slots. They can grab Cure Wounds from a few feats, or Face tools like Mask of many Faces or Misty Visions. Also I definitely back the Echo Knight move. He can frontline from the backline to help the rear and can take a turn to help pass potions or bandages while the echo is still in position to crowd control.
suggested solution to the lack of a face: bring a samurai. vuman for magic initiate: druid at level 1 for shillelagh (most important) and probably guidance and goodberry (just good to have). Wisdom is your primary stat, don't dump Charisma, grab skill expert for persuasion, samurai can add their wis to persuasion checks, by level 8 you can have +13 to persuasion before guidance, easy, or more if you put more focus on cha, and still be solid in a fight. Alternatively, if you're willing to let your build take a little longer to come fully online, play a halfelf for more stats, take magic initiate at level 4 instead, and now you can _also_ grab _elven accuracy_ for triple rolling on your free samurai advantage. Or on the other hand, play a hill dwarf and you can completely dump your physical stats to focus entirely on mental stats and constitution while still wearing the heaviest armor - though this route leaves you _completely useless_ for the first three levels of play, rather than just 'a little underpowered' like the half-elf route does. Of course, the restriction on multiclassing sadly prohibits my favorite way to do this build: dip fey wanderer ranger for three levels, because, according to D&D Beyond, the third level fey wanderer ability and the seventh level samurai ability _do_ in fact stack XD
imo this party will have to be creative and have a GM who's really into narrative play. They can't magically divine info they need, and probably won't be great at sneaking in and spying on the enemy, but what they can do is kidnap a guard (or the guard's family, if they are evils) and get the info they need that way. When they go up against the dragon they'll have rigged a rock fall somewhere, like in the movies. Figuring out cool narrative ways of 'patching the holes' will be fun for GMs & players. And they will prob have hedge wizard and/or herbalist healer NPC hired to hang around camp.
The reason you guys are seeing so many issues with the exploration and social pillars is that you're building your hypothetical party as if it WASN'T a party of full on combat blenders already. They're ALL fighters, they're all already great in combat and don't need cheese optimization to pull through most encounters. Instead, recognize that your combat prowess is already mostly good enough and you can afford to spend quite a few of your feats on things to shore up those other two pillars. Not enough skills? One or two people pick skilled. Need expertise? Skill Expert/Prodigy. Missing that magic utility? Take ritual caster. Actor, Alert, Observant, Linguist, Dungeon Delver, etc.. There are so many feats that cover these areas if you allow yourself to not tunnel-vision solely on the cookie-cutter PAM/Sentinel/GWM-type combat setups. Other classes get tons of ribbons to help in the other pillars, fighters don't. Instead they get feats, use them.
YES! Feats are what make fighters so versatile. When you can get up to 7-8 feats per fighter, totaling to 28-32 feats total, you can utilize quite a few, which normally are completely overlooked. Probably the all one class party I would want to play the most just for this reason.
It's funny how in the campaign I'm currently in my Battle master has ended up being the party face because everyone else ignored that aspect when building. I eventually retrained one of my Maneuvers to Commanding Presence.
I feel like with fighters you really have to take advantage of the feats. Fighters get a crazy amount and should be utilized. Feats like skill expert or healer really come in handy.
As complicated as this might be, I have this idea for a campaign with 4-5 players who each have like 3 characters, but only play one at a time, in a themed group. Group Alpha would be the all-Wizard party, which adventures to find trouble spots in the Empire/Kingdom/whatever-it-is, Group Bravo is an all-rogue party which is dispatched to investigate the spots identified by Group Alpha and prioritize which are actual threats to the whatever-it-is, and Group Charlie is an all-fighter party sent out on the intel gathered by Group Bravo to eliminate those threats. Just geeking out on this idea, sorry for the interruption 🤓 😉
Dont be. My current campaign is just like that and it works great. I also have 2 tables playing the same campaign simultaneously, so whatever one table does, is canon for the other one. 😅
Love how I started watching you guys recently after worrying about the composition of our party, and now I as the fighter get to wonder with you guys about what my first ever class can do
42:37 Same thing I said with the Rogue party: this is a gear-based team. And the versatility and modularity of that means that this is the party that will be very dependent on those tactics and strategies, those ways to synergize and combo and cover weak spots.
If you've watched the gauntlets over at CMCC Builds, I think you'd see the HUGE advantage of having the party focus on range. I've joked about having a SG-1 party of all sharpshooters just mowing down foes from a considerable distance. It would be disgustingly fun to witness.
I do think the battlemaster being the archer would be a good consideration based on the fact that they are hitting more consistently and can place their maneuvers where they want anywhere on the board.
@@michalgrugel2326what? No. I just double checked, most maneuvers say Weapon Attack. Thus you can use melee or ranged, especially the important ones like Trip and groad
The scenario that pops up in my mind is to base it on the Aliens film. A simple rescue mission gone wrong and all of the sudden they have to fight their way out with their resources slowly dwindling.
This party is a resource management/tactical combat game. You absolutely need a patron to provide those resources for the party, but it would be a cool concept to play anyway. You got the king's executioners, who must go to a dungeon and vanquish the BBEG, with the kingdom's resources behind them. I'd dig it.
I think this party works the best if the DM plays into their limitations. They need tons of items to do well? Well, give them tons of weird and interesting items (almost no other party is better suited for it). Almost no way to deal with powerful casters? Make your spellcasters few and far between, and make them very scared to get up close with your party. They don’t specialize in a ton of skills? Make the skill checks skew more towards athletics and acrobatics, or tailor their experience towards their background skills.
That’s an interesting point. Compared to all class/subclass options it’s not great, but when you are the only fighter among fighters that can heal, all of a sudden you are the most helpful.
Samurai subclass would really shine in this circumstance. A half elf Samurai could have a 14 in both wisdom and charisma while still have good strength and constitution. They can then add the +2 from both to persuasion checks. Add to that the half elf get +2 skills and the subclass gets +1 skill. You end up with a very well rounded social character that gets lots of feats to flesh things out.
It would be kinda cool maybe to have consumables like potions and feather-fall tokens, and scrolls be more important and something they have to think about preparing. The Eldritch Knight could also focus on utility feats and sacrifice some combat potency for utility, filling the role of the special or technician in an XCOM like team.
43:10 maybe if it's relatively low level and you don't want to go too easy on then by always leaving a crazy number of healing potions everywhere the party goes, you could have a Druid in town, or nearby, whom they could purchase Goodberries from every time they're in town and ready to head out on a nearby quest. That could be a much cheaper way to bring unconscious allies back up than going through tons of portions. A Portion of Healing costs 50gp, so maybe the Druid only charges 10gp for a 1st level casting of Goodberry? On the one hand, it's a lot more potential opportunities to save an ally, for far lower cost, but on the other it only lasts a day, so I'd say that's a fair price.
I completely disagree with your take on exploration. You get each party member to focus on a different mental stat. Rather then stacking up damage feats you grab ones that help shore up a weakness. The damage feats are nice but absolutely not needed. I really feel like you guys made a huge misstep building this party.
Should have replaced Psi Warrior with Samurai and made them the party face. They should have a decent Wisdom and they can add the modifier to Charisma checks. Stack that with the Prodigy feat and you've got a pretty good setup for social situations
Thank you for mentioning The Black Company!! That’s my favorite series ever! Croaker was so relatable, the stories were so gritty …. I could go on all day.
My ideal team would be a sharpshooter battlemaster, a sword and board eldritch knight with utility spells and tanky haste+shield, a elf champion with elven accuracy and dual swords for maximum critical power on the prone enemies on behalf of the battlemaster, and an echo knight with sword and board that picks magic and healing feats to heal people from range and be the dude who fights all over
I can't speak of an all fighter game, but an all rogues game was just about enough to break me. It lasted 6 episodes and is still one of my most talked about games.
This is probably the most challenging setup so far. As the Dudes point out, there are massive holes in the defenses of this party, and in their tactical versatility; in particular, 5e's non-scaling saving throws are going to be a problem. It ends up feeling a bit like PF2e, where massive gaps in defenses are a given, and you're supposed to plug them with a good party composition and/or consumables. Which, all in all, isn't a bad thing - it can make for some very OSR-feeling encounters, where you have to nudge the conditions in your favor in order to prevail. I'd probably suggest Resilient (Wisdom), possibly even Dexterity, for basically everyone at some point (they certainly have ASIs to spare), as well as any other ways to round out the group's defenses, even if it sacrifices DPR - they aren't going to be lacking in that department anyway. And yes, this party would definitely benefit from a wagonful of adventuring gear, which sounds like really fun time! You generally see stuff like tools, grappling hooks and ladders be rendered obsolete by spells as early as Tier II, but this party really needs it.
My friends and I love to theory-craft scenarios like this. We were actually in a party with 5 Clerics, each with a different subclass and deity. The RP opportunities were great. Four Fighters, all Human, one is the heavy guy, one is the quick guy, one takes the Skilled Feat and is Ranger-lite, and one is the Eldrich Knight.
All variant human, all start with Mounted Combat feat. Straight up vanguard horse squad. Four level 1 warriors with horse, shield, and spear ... and horse bows. They could vary out into specializations from that same start point to add depth, but having a literal unit either in an army or perhaps from a defeated army would be an interesting start for a campaign.
4:40- Candied-Bacon-Wrapped asparagus Edit: 28:00- Well, that's where you incorporate Minion Rules, where physical attacks can cleave through multiple minions if the damage dealt is higher than the HP of the minion hit. (Ex: 3 Kobolds with 7 hp. Fighter deals 15 damage. 2 Kobolds die and third takes a point of damage. If using the 1hp minion rule, then for every 7 damage the Fighter deals, another minion in range dies, and that third Kobold would die despite not taking a full 7 damage)
They really missed the ball with their build by missing that rune knights get expertise with all tools they’re proficient with as long as they take the fire rune. With the fact that they get extra feats, allowing them to load up on lots of tool proficiencies, they’ll be getting expertise and/or advantage on a bunch of skill checks that cover the knowledge based skills, infiltration skills, and charisma skills, so they’ll be able to cover a lot of the utility, exploration, infiltration, and being a party face, and then the other fighters can worry about combat. And in some combination if all the fighters take chef, healer, and inspiring leader, they have a ton of healing and temporary hit points to work with on every short rest
I think the largest indicator for whether this party will perform as an elite squadron of bastards or fumble through combat will be whether the GM allows them to take their turns at the same time or no. Hard to stay in formation behind the shield master when you move one-at-a-time and with enemy turns interrupting you.
I think this one is really interesting for a couple reasons; 1) the overreliance on the Eldritch Knight for a bunch of specific useful things REALLY shows the power of magic across all pillars of play, and 2) team composition makes a lot more sense when you realise how much damage Fighters do but what they give up to GET that damage, and this is super noticeable when you only HAVE Fighters and no other classes to cover for their weaknesses (while other classes do ENOUGH damage but have a bunch of other redeeming features when they stand alone, so Fighter seems like an inherently more team-based class)
These Fighters and an Abjuration Wizard to help with counter spells and mostly to take Tashas Bubbling cauldron if they can, and flavor it as a keg. They could do a keg stand on it as an action since it can't move, or to use the tap to get health pots. To go with your beer helmet Monty 16:26
The martial classes are really interesting in these types of videos. Access to spells inherently create such a dynamic versatility, so taking most of that away it makes you have to think a bit harder on your choices.
I think I would put echo knight over psi warrior. You still have the ability to reduce damage by making your echo take the hit. It also gives this party an amazing ability to scout.
Ooh I played a campaign of Solasta: Crown of the Magister, 5e CRPG, with an all-Fighter party. I went with two Champions, their totally-not-an-Eldritch-Knight, and their Mountaineer (shield, hold-the-line focus). I eventually toggled on settings like Anyone can use scrolls, Identify over a short rest, etc to help them along. But honestly it went pretty well! Solasta’s main campaign has long stretches of conflict where eking out a long rest is tough, and it takes food, so Hit Dice become a premium resource. Allfighter getting to short rest and get back Second Wind as a top-up helped a lot in those marathon delves. It was challenging, especially against significant casters and dragons, but it was super rewarding!
Your bacon analogy unlocked an old memory.We had a pre camp party and everyone had to bring a meat- I brought a flight of bacon. 5 kinds, pound each. Felt like a fighter going back for seconds.
Assuming attacking stats are maxed and all characgers have +3 weapons, were looking at around 24 dmg per hit. Multiply that by 8 you get 192. Multiply that by three and we have 576, one of them doesn't have great weapon master, so they're only doing 112. All together we're looking at an average of 688 dmg on their nova round. This is also assuming they arent using maneuvers, magic items, and other abilities to boost their dmg further...
Seven Samurai. That's your campaign. These are good men looking for a cause to defend.
I loved it as a one-shot or mini campaign. You open with the villagers recruiting the team.
@@dragoninthewest1 Exactly!
Seven Samurai? What is this, Yugioh?
I'm stealing this.
So which subclasses? Eldritch knight, battle master, rune knight, psi warrior, echo knight, Samurai (duh) and arcane archer (?) or cavalier (as samurai are mounted archers by their very nature), Which subclasses do you think would fit best?
Or you do the cowboy version with 7 crossbow experts and one of them is bald...
As someone currently DMing for an all fighter party, tools are often the solution to most problems. They're brewing potions like crazy. Creating traps. Extracting poisons. The eldritch knight is making scrolls whenever he can. And the rule where you get advantage when proficient with both a skill and tool has been a massive boon.
I kind of like this. Requires them to be super proactive in preparing ahead of time
You should recommend the Skilled or Skill Expert Feats to them. Would really help them out. Or potentially offer it as a free feat if they spend some down time studying a particular skill or something. 👌
There's also an optional perk in Tasha's academy patron that can give everyone one extra skill (though it has to be chosen from Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion)
If you're feeling homebrewy, you might be able to spin this into a solution to the magic item problem as well: let them play Monster Hunter. Need to deal with a red dragon? Time to go hunt some fire-resistant monsters for their hides and make special arrowheads out of roc talons.
@@TwilitbeingReboot Definitely doing it.
“You see a-“
“It’s dead.”
“… And then after a while, there is a growl as you hear-“
“Dead.”
And if anything suurvives, action surge.
Dm.... uh.... roll nature checks
*frantic page turning*
@@greatazuredragon Dear lord, 4 action surges... per short rest. 😅
I once was in a Party with 2 Fighters, I was one and our new player. He was a Champion and I was a Battlemaster. I spend so much time giving him Advantage and looking those crits. Fighters together strong.
no way, i did a similar thing with a friend during a one-shot. we decided to roll stats in the same VC and ended up rolling near-identical numbers, so we ended up making two dumb-as-bricks Orcs. the older brother was a real show-off/braggart and the younger brother had an inferiority complex, but the older bro was so extra and distracting (Battlemaster) that it allowed the younger brother to just sneak in some strong hits while no one was looking. (Champion)
Really it feels like 2 is optimal.
It's like the drakkenhiem ark where Rudy and Pluto were in the same party.
Fighter really are the jack all trades masters of some.
The all rouge party being the intelligence gatherers for the all fighter party sounds pretty cool to me.
Can you imagine if you had two campaigns running simultaneously where one was an all rogue party and the other was an all fighter party? You could have the rogues gather intelligence for an adult that the fighters will conduct later, or have the fighters cause a distraction so that the rogues can steal an important artifact. The best part: if you’re playing two separate parties, you won’t know how the other team did until the following week, adding a smidge of realism and raiding the stakes of the interaction.
All red?
Fighters are in the van waiting for the rogues to botch the operation and need backup
@@CyberDrewan So this is actually the reason Gary Gygax said you can't have a meaningful campaign without keeping accurate time records. It was in the context of having multiple parties interacting in the same campaign world, so their actions have the chance to influence what happens in the other sessions.
They can also be the back up. On the fighters are loosing. Get ready for 4 attacks at advantage with massive sneak attack
If the Eldritch Knight takes Fey Touched: Bless this party is golden.
The Eldritch Knight could also pick Artificer Initiate and pick Cure Wounds for some healing! or maybe with so many feats someone can pick the Healer and Chef feat!
Magic initiate Cleric for bless, guidance and spare the dying too
@@sabintandukar7907I wouldn't waste a cantrip slot on Spare the Dying when Healer's Kits exist.
@@Zoddlander
Or Eldritch Adept??/Initiate??? I forget the Feat name... For free Spells that cost no materials or spell slots to cast under Warlock Innovations not tied to Warlock Levels.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615
MIght be better to just take Ritual Caster feat, because most of the invocations that the Eldritch Knight is allowed to take from the Eldritch Adept feat are available thru the spell list that the Knight already gets or can be taken in Shadow/Fey Touched!
But Speak with animals(Beast Speech), and at will Disguise Self(Mask of Many Faces) seems real good!
But it depends on the campaign too!
IMO Eldritch Mind is unnecessary if the Knight is taking War Caster!
Hear me out: four purple dragon knights , everyone using action surge giving each other bonus attacks, healing the whole party with second wind, and never failing saving throws by sharing indomitable
Subclass resource quickly turns into Party resources
The Communist Party
The Rallying Cry is an interesting feature. It's not a lot of healing, but it is a long range healing that you can give to three people. When you need it, it's great, and can stop a TPK. You just definitely don't need it often enough, and you can only use it with your limited second wind.
At level 7 you get basically expertise on persuasion. Good thing the party definitely didn't have a face for the past 6 levels. In an all-Fighter party, it's a little more useful.
Level 10, Inspiring Surge, that's a great feature. Bring your favorite Rogue. Combine levels 3 and 7, make this the L7 feature.
L15's Bulwark, you lost me again. Like rallying cry, this feature won't be getting much use. Collective mental ability saving throws just aren't that common. Unless the GM just wants the campaign to end, I guess.
Like, the features are better than nothing, but only marginally so. I simply have to assume that they expected any player picking the PDK subclass to also get a bunch of non-mechanical, more narrative benefits related to being part of the Cormyrian Army, but just never mentioned it anywhere.
@@1rotzy yuck
I picture John Wick loading up on guns & rifles.
Or Arnold breaking into the gun store's back room to load up on stuff.
😅.
Dangerous, but fun!
“Yeah! You can put fighter on your fighter!” is such a great line.
Crossing swords
Just adding an alternative option: if you swapped the Psi warrior out for the samurai, you would have a party face. Gets proficiency in wisdom saving throws to boot.
You can be the face with a Rune Knight as well but you just wanna hate on psi warrior huh?
@@karatekoala4270 Sure, because saying you should swap something is hating on it...
Rune Knight can spec into having permanent advantage on intimidation checks lol
@@LupineShadowOmegaI can see the merit of samurai as a party face. Samurai also has the added advantage of being flexible varying between melee and ranged. Now I don't see how psi warrior adds to social skills (the forced movement and controle from knocking foes prone is very useful, but this is also within battle masters wheelhouse) and doesn't have that many unique skills to add.
I think it's a reasonable suggestion, depending on the party composition and in what way are the other roles filled by the other subclasses. Of course it also is only a suggestion, if someone doesn't like it they can just ignore it.
@@LupineShadowOmega honestly I'm joking around, sorta. It's only cause I'm a fighter main and the psi warrior is my favorite to build with. Just sucks cause so many treat it like a throw away so it doesn't get any shine on these UA-cam streets. Though the channel Enter The Dungeon represented for ya boy!
As you were talking about all-fighter parties being the opposite of all-bard and all-rogue parties, it game me a crazy idea for a campaign. Each player plays two characters to make up an all-bard (or all-rogue) and all-fighter party All the characters are working for the same military or law enforcement organization. Each game session is either a bard session or a fighter session. The bard sessions involve infiltration and espionage, with only minimal combat. The information they gather produces targeted "kill the bad guys" missions that are then carried out during the fighter sessions.
Probably only good for experienced players who are capable of switching off between two characters, but it could be a blast.
Yes! This sounds like a lot of fun. One session being mostly RP with sneaking and skill checks, and the next is the big battle.
I think a lot of the observations about a Fighter party's weaknesses in combat are a commentary on the value of the Art of War as a philosophical text. Sun Tzu's ultimate point is that in order to win a fight you really need to maneuver your opponents into the position most advantageous for you. If you've executed the principles correctly, the battle is won before a blade is drawn. I think that's how the Fighter party has to approach the game across the board. In all ways, approach with strategy. In a world of dangerous lands and deadly monsters, your single greatest weapon is always your mind.
_Sigh_ This really makes me wish 5e had an intelligence-based martial somewhere in there. PF2e's Investigator can be made into a pretty ballin' military strategist, and Level Up: Advanced 5e has some very interesting tactical options for a mindful fighter, especially with the Marshal class and the Sanguine Knot combat tradition.
Well said. In an all martial class campaign right now and that’s absolutely how it is.
This keyed me in to why I felt profoundly dissatisfied with the composition of the All Fighter party. Fighters have such specific weaknesses that it is actually the suboptimal choices that make a better rounded party. They go out of their way to talk about how overkillingly strong the All Fighter party is in combat--that means you can actually dial some of that back for more versatility. Every member of the party could have some access to magic. Ritual Caster (Druid in particular) gives a lot of utility options. Extra feats and lots of options beyond the reflexive combat feat combos.
Agreed, what a fighter lacks in spellcasting and skills they can make up for it in their feats. When you can get up to 7-8 feats per player, there are plenty to go around for expertise here, magic initiate there, and even some of the more minor feats such as healer, inspiring leader, or chef can be pretty useful. Lots of cool aspects that you wouldn't normally find in any other type of party.@@cenauge
@@ikaemosyou don't need a high intelligence score to play a smart fighter. You don't need a PhD to be strategically smart. I don't think I've ever played a fighter that doesn't at least have a 12 in either wisdom or intelligence. That's more than enough to role play your character as a smart or wise person. You don't need 16s or 18s for that to make sense. Fighters are supposed to play the game smartly, you don't get the cheat codes some other classes get to brute force yourself through. The fighter is kinda just a person that happens to be pretty tough. Most action heroes are fighters, and they need to think and be smart as well.
That doesn't mean a fighter with intelligence based abilities wouldn't be cool though. I'd love to see more non magical reasons to have mental stats. The inquisitive and swashbuckler rogue are the only non magical mental state based subclasses I can think of (and there's the monk of course) but none of these are intelligence based. Something along the lines of the 4e warlord would be pretty cool. Some kind of tactician subclass.
These videos are honestly so much fun. But I think y'all once again made a huge oversight. I noticed it with the "all monks" video too when you ignored 4 elements, but subclasses that are weaker on their own can actually be AMAZING in a party that's all one class.
For this one, the big miss for me was the Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight. If you've got one fighter in a party, they're never gonna be my choice. But in a party full of fighters? Literally every single feature they get is crazy useful.
They have a mass heal as a bonus action. They can give their party reaction attacks so that those 32 attacks actually become 35. They can save the party burning their Indominable rolls. AND they get expertise in persuasion, so they can be a face. Make 'em a changeling or give them the Mask of Many Faces as a feat and you are covered.
My alternative would be:
Echo knight taking chef feat and proficiency in healers kit, making them the combat medic because they can send their echo in to administer a potion or healers kit without risking themselves.
Eldritch knight takes all the feats that give them spells, and they use a one-handed weapon taking the dueling fighting style for if the need arises that they're out of spells and need to stab
Rune knight takes the polearm and surprises of all is the only one taking gwm and being str based.
Finally battlemaster (it has to be in the party) being sharpshooter, because trip attack and commander's strike work with ranged weapons.
Now you have a party that performs against ranged attacks, and the eldritch spellcasting buffed with feats, and you have a healer that isn't too bad with a bow.
Healer feat to maximize the kits
Regrettably, I don't believe that the echo can be used to heal or take most non-damaging actions, as this would cause a few problems regarding resources:
Potion overuse. A pedant can easily claim "My echo used one of his potions, not mine, so I still have all of my potions!" This would mean that an Echo Knight with a single potion could restore all of the HP of the party, even if everyone is low.
Alternatively: Echo Knight Yo-Yo Healing. Similarly to the first example, assuming it's ruled in that way, the D.M. can go "Okay fine, but the healing only persists until your echo is destroyed." This would cause problems with incentivizing the fighter to keep the echo alive over himself; ruining the core point of the class in the first place and making the player feel like they don't even have a subclass at all, assuming that the party needs the healing in that moment.
Also, fights where the players need to pull a lever or remove an item from a pedestal would be trivialized if you play an Echo Knight.
Makes ranged attack roll and throws healing potions in everyone’s faces
Echo knight would be perfect for information gathering and relaying that to the party
Everybody takes Blind Fighting fighting style, Eldritch Knight drops Fog Cloud, Sewer fight scene from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990 film) commences. 😆
Also, you could take Magic Initiate (Druid): Goodberry, Guidance, Shillelagh - bring back downed allies, get a little bonus to your ability checks, and one member can have wisdom as their main ability score.
Thanks, my heroes are going to face a group of foils like this now and its YOUR fault.
@@khalilismail666 Glad I could help! 😁
Every single episode. "I think this class is very thematic and shows up in a lot of media."
The Rune Knight should be the polearm master here. With Giant's Might, you can cover a large swath of the battlefield with your reach.
The eldritch knight gets to shine is what happens.
Even a turd can shine if properly polished. But, just like an Eldritch Knight, a polished turd is still a pile of shit.
Rune Knight > Eldritch Knight every day of the week.
@RLKmedic0315 ? Not a martial fan clearly.
Oh, they took the Light cantrip?
I played both eldritch knight and rune knight these both struggle to shine cause what they do can be done better by others or equally but from my experience Eldritch knight is better out of the two subclasses because the fact of the spell sword build or mystic tower build.
Let me explain this is how I build these two combos. For the mystic tower build I go with shield to enhance AC go with plate and tank your primary damage is magic or you use some kind of utility.
Spell sword we all know this build but I took a interesting twist feat artificer adept take Arcane weapon to add magic damage early on in your career greenflame blade to add extra fire damage and if you were hit by a damage spell absorb elements to add extra magic damage I end up doing 30+ damage in 2 attacks by level 5 that's the power this build has take war caster to use a spell as a reaction to a enemy leaving your threat zone I use lightning whip to do damage and drag the opponent back into your threat zone. Go spearmaster and you can do this multiple times until they disengage
Y'll complete forgot about the Rune Knight when talking about the skills section.
Rune knight gets:
- Cloud: Advantage on Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) checks and Charisma (Deception) checks.
- Frost: Advantage on Wisdom (Animal Handling) checks and Charisma (Intimidation) checks.
- Stone: Advantage on Wisdom (Insight) checks, and you have darkvision out to a range of 120 feet.
- Storm: Advantage on Intelligence (Arcana) checks, and you can't be surprised as long as you aren't incapacitated.
This doesn't fill all the skill holes in this Party, but it sure helps. Don't forget that Advantage on a skill counts as a +10 to Passive senses with that skill.
Close- it's +5 to passives
@@drfeelgoodinc. right!
Still.
Plus Cloud Rune lets you redirect one key attack. This can swing a battle to your favor.
@rcschmidt668 Well, yeah.... all the runes have amazing in combat benefits. But I'm just pointing out that they just didn't even consider these passive the Rune Knight has. He essentially could be the skill monkey for the party.
Taking the Skilled and Skill expert feats could really help a lot too. And if the Rune Knight put more stats in Wis or Cha, it wouldn't be that bad. Not amazing, but not bad at all.
Hah! Nice timing on this one! I recently finished an all-Fighter run through BG3. Tav (bow) and Laezel (GWM) were both Battle Masters, Shadowhart was Eldritch Knight, and Karlach was a GWM Champion (with stacked bonuses to lower the number for a crit even further). Between each of them getting their normal attacks, Speed Potions, and Action Surge, it was a blood bath.
Bro this is exactly what i was thinking when seeing the video. Perfect combo subclasses and fittig to their personalities. 👌
Nice harem that you build there 😏
Started doing the same thing couple days ago, though i went half way with shadowheart and made her a vengeance paladin.
Dialogue sucks now that im not ilmater's favorite cleric though.
"LESS TALKING, MORE RAIDING!"
@@honpolyo I reserve vengeance paladin for Minthara
Something I feel like you failed to mention is that each one of them has 2 extra ASIs. They could take Skill Expert to mitigate that persuasion issue. Suddenly, their +1 is now a +9. Every single one of them could take magic initiate and have guidance or find familiar. They could take healing word or goodberry for that emergency healing.
Yeah I feel like they kinda dropped the ball with this one and didn't consider all of the possibilities or options
Depending on how many ASIs they need for their basic build you can even pull off a bit more
Eldridge initiate for devils sight
Magic initiate
Artificer Initiate
Shadow/Fae touched
Even Fighter initiate for a second fighting style.
Also this is for tables that allow them but there are backgrounds that give access to feats and if you play with it a bit you can find something that you would want. Also if you're playing human that feat there could be helpful there also.
@nickm9102 my point was that fighter has 2 additional ASIs that other classes don't get. All classes get 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19 (5 total), but rogues get an additional one at 10 (6 total), and fighters get additional ones at 6 and 14 (7 total).
These 2 extra ASIs weren't mentioned, and really add to the versatility of the group
They mentioned not having invisibility. The eldritch knight could pick it up with Shadow Touched, along with Silent Image or Disguise Self, even rounding their int to am even number.
They mentioned lacking face skills, the battlemaster could pick up Skill Expert to gain expertise in persuasion and a +1 to a stat. The Eldritch Knight, as a dex build, could take it for stealth expertise.
Ritual Caster on the psy warrior or Eldritch Knight could allow for all sorts of rituals to help with exploration. Find Familiar, Tiny Hut, Divination, detect magic, identify, phantom Steed, water breathing, Telepathic bond..... the battlemaster needs a 12-14 cha, but one of the others could swing a 13+ int or wis for the feat.
The point is, a big class feature of fighters is their extra ASIs. Ignoring that nerfs already (relatively) weak (outside of hitting stuff) fighters into what they described: characters only good at combat.
@@crownlexicon5225 Not disagreeing, I was looking at it and if they are only taking one stat to 20 that would make the two additional ASIs perfect for what you said I was also exploring options for those builds that might need to use the ASIs for abilities over feats.
This is exactly what I was gonna say! With the extra feats fighters get they can take Skilled & Skill Expert. Doesn't even need to be on the same character. Give the eldritch Knight who's got a decent wisdom proficiency in investigation, history & arcana. Give the elf with perception proficiency Observant or Skilled so they always get advantage or expertise. Plus their base stats don't have to suffer.
King: And what is your party's name?
Team: team "Parry this, you F##KN' casual"
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These are always fun to watch. Although, I'd really like to see the inverse of this concept: a "worst party made good" video. How do you take a Purple Dragon Knight Fighter, Undying Warlock, Four Elements Monk, and Mastermind Rogue and build an effective team? If you're DMing, how do you subsidize or lean-in on the party's shortfalls to create a fun campaign playing subclasses that are rarely chosen? What are some good examples of setting up scenarios that allow players with trap subclasses to use their typically useless class features?
This would be a really interesting one. Basically take any of the subclasses that scored a D in their ranking and make a four person party out of those choices.
I'd LOVE to see a video about this!
PDK can give a couple of reaction sneak attacks to the rogue so there is some synergy there
4E monk can blow their entire stockpile of ki with fist of unbroken air to deal a big blow of damage to the biggest threat acting like a true skirmisher
undying warlock just doesnt help the party at all, isnt there another spellcaster (even a one third caster) that can help the monk land stunning strikes?
Give your dexterity Eldritch Knight the Urchin background for stealth, sleight of hand, and thieves' tools proficiency, and they can be the party thief as well.
The first session of what would eventually become our D&D group was a 3rd edition dungeon crawl filled with five first-time players (I was DMing and the only one who played D&D before). They all picked martial classes, I was not going to run 3 npcs to round out their group (cleric, rogue, wizard) so I thought of the three what did they need? I figured they can make do with healing potions for healing and gave them a rogue for disarming traps and picking locked doors open and let them loose. Our group is about 23 years old now.
Edlritch Knight: Buff their INT for those INT skills, too. Getting Fey touched, Shadow Touched, Telekinetic and Telepathic means the Edritch Knight has way more spells on deck. Plus added benefits of undetectable communication.
Rune Knight: Buff their WIS for those Wis Skills, +all the Rune Passive Effects they get. They become the skill monkey with Skilled/ Skill Expert Feats.
Go Samuari over PSI 100%. Samuari makes a WAY better Archer than PSI. Plus you Buff their Cha and they become party Face with their Persuasion proficiency.
Battle Master is good as you presented it. He should be the True Damage Dealer. GWM, PAM, Sentinel. The Works.
This easily takes the All fighter party from a C to a B.
No need to make all the fighters Max STR and CON. Yes they need these things but you can sacrifice to get the skill stats your need plus appropriate Feats.
Bacon with your poutine. Damn candanavians
And it taste awesome
Thanks
I think this hypothetical really highlights a few things: you don't need to be min/maxed to be successful but people pretend that's the case. You can be a Fighter with a +1 Char and do just find in social encounters and have one less +1 in your core fighting stat and take out enemies still. Then there's the ability scores used for a skill problem. You have never had to JUST use Charisma to intimidate. Your hulking brute fighter can smash a wall with their hammer to drive home a point to someone. That's RAW and your DM just has to decide it's applicable. A fighter with high Dex doing the knife/hand game at a table can intimidate just as easily too.
Half the fun of playing the game is succeeding where there's a risk of loss.
Yeah, I once played as a multiclassed rogue with expertise in 12 different skills and reliable talent. Lets just say there was really no risk of loss when it came to skill checks, when pretty much every roll is an autopass.
If monty ever decides to make a Sorcerer Kings based campaing i realy want to see the all fighter party with The boys vibe
who would win
scummy supetman?
or
4 magic fellas with sharp sticks?
I think you overlooked one tiny little under appreciated item+feat: The Humble Healers Kit.
Seriously. I know it seems like basically nothing at first glance, but with the Healer feat my current party (that has no cleric or Druid) is wondering how they got along without it. And I’m just using a Monk. If I had action surge I could be contributing much more. It’s practically made for the all fighter party.
I’d also build a fighter party differently to how you guys did. Eldritch knight I’d keep, Battle Master I’d make the archer, psi warrior I’d make dex/int duelist type fighter, and I’d drop the rune knight for a Samurai great sword user. Polearm master + Sentinel is amazing… when you’re trying to keep the enemies away from your party. This party doesn’t want the enemies staying away. They want the enemies up close where they can turn them into paste.
As for exploration and social, I think the sheer number of feats/ASI this group gets makes up for it easily. They can all have expertise in something. Samurai is the face and the leader with his wisdom boost to social. The only thing they’re really gonna be lacking on more than anyone else is the knowledge based skills. (I’m not counting Rogues or Bards because no one compares to them as skill monkeys.)
Overall spellcasters are not much of a threat unless they go first, as they won’t survive (unless there’s a lot of them). And even then it only takes one fighter escaping that crowd control spell which they’re very likely to do with 8 attempts between them, and the caster is gonna being making 8 concentration checks assuming they even survive. Even with warcaster that’s a tall order. Flying enemies are a problem, but that’s why we have 2 dex fighters, so the second one can put his sword away and whip out a bow. Might not have sharpshooter (or maybe he does!) but it’s still better than javelins. Also items. They’ll still have heavy reliance on items… but you can’t have everything.
I’d grade the all fighter strike force swat team at a high B. I think you overlooked a lot of what can be done with all those feats and ASIs, and you’re too hung up on polearm master to see it’s not right for everything.
The best thing of the fighter is the ASI, and this can solve the problem with social and exploration moments. Just take the skill expert feat for everybody and choose the right expertise to fill those gaps!
Same thing for healing, take the healer feat and some healer's kit and it should be fine!
Great video btw!
If you don't have problem with spanish or using a translator I recommend the third party work "El Arsenal" of the proyect "Dragones de la Sexta Edición". It's a document compatible with 5e with 173 weapons the existing ones and new ones and also new fighting styles, properties, feats, etc. Also works as a Quick history guide with the real use and origin of the weapon. All for 9,99€.
I'll check it out 😊
I’d personally add echo knight over psi warrior for some scouting abilities later on and to have another teleport ability available. Psi warrior it a solid choice though and one of my favorite subclasses
Yeah, best suggestions I have are to capitalize the feats, apart from the crazy amounts of attacks, the crazy number of feats are what really sets fighters apart from the rest, getting 8 feats as a variant human, and its okay to treat it similarly to rogues, where each build will have its specialization. I would also suggest magic initiate as well for a feat, magic initiate in cleric will go a long way with things like guidance and bless. You can even pick up expertise as well. Feats are what really makes fighters so versatile as a class.
Talking about themes, the descriptions you guys gave reminded me a lot of the Skull and Bones squad from the Kick Ass comics
I think battle master makes a better archer than a melee striker. Also purple dragon knight would be pretty useful in an all fighter party. Not to mention arcane archer which has great battlefield control options other subclasses really lack
I’d really love to see that commando squad you described in a campaign. Just 4 regular guys scared but soooo trained to take down magical enemies with a quickness.
An all Fighters party is literally just Helldivers
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I play a fighter A LOT and almost every one of my fighters carries a Bow and Arrows if they can. My new favorite is the Medieval War Bow, a re-curved short bow with the range of a long bow and is used to whittle down enemies at range to make melee combat faster.
If I was in an all Fighter group, I think I’d go with a Half-Elf Samurai Fighter (with the Outlander background, for theme), and take Magic Initiate Druid asap for Shillelagh, plus whichever 2nd cantrip would patch a hole best (probably Guidance or Produce Flame) and Goodberry. That little bit of healing that can come in clutch, and you can build around Wisdom, which is huge for this group. It also synergizes super well with Elven Accuracy, since the 3 dice on advantage benefit applies to any Shillelagh weapon. I’d also try to fit in PAM later on.
echo knight with hex for dps, rune knight unarmed fighter as a tank/grappler, eldritch knight for area denial and utility spells, and a purple dragon knight with the healer and skilled feats for support/utility
Honestly battlemasters are so versatile that I think they should be an exception for your "nobody plays the same subclass" rule.
The all fighter party sounds like the most fun of all of these. With a creative GM, smart players and a patron that tells the party roughly half of what they need to know to get the job done, I can see great things happening.
so idea: for the eldritch knight, play a Mark of Healing Halfling... it adds Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Prayer of Healing, Aura of Vitality, Mass Healing Word, Aura of Purity, Aura of Life, and Greater Restoration to your spell list. (this also works with the arcane trickster rogue for the all rogues party, as well as any spellcasting class that doesnt get healing like wizards.. obviously for eldritch knights and arcane tricksters you cant use the greater restoration but for other classes)
with that said, my all fighter party would be eldritch knight as my archer (mark of healing halfling, used to stay back and heal as needed while still being able to attack), battlemaster polearm master (take a flying race, letting you get into range of other flying creatures so you can trip attack them to knock them out of the sky if they're large or smaller. the older aarakocra that has a 50ft flight probably best so you can chase down flying creatures.. if you cant use the older aarakocra than winged tiefling so you can still have medium armor.. you could even apply a lineage on top of these races, either at creation if your dm allows or try to become one shortly after the start, and gain a few extra bonuses without losing too much. hexblood might be good to gain the hex spell for extra damage), rune knight gwm (probably take bugbear for greater reach and suprise attack, or a race with Savage Attacks like half orc. also, this would probably be best for your charisma character as some of the runes give advantage to certain cha checks.. might even be worth being more of a glass cannon with con as your third stat instead of second just to have a slightly better cha score. having the mark of healing on your team would make this far less punishing), and echo knight as my dex sword and board tank. (probably also a flying race, having the echo to help be a target and letting you switch to its location or use it to intercept attacks really lends to protecting allies.. also you can use the echo in exploration, letting you see/hear out of it and scout ahead without fear of it dying. if you take a flying race that'll let your echo fly and since your dex based you can get proficiency in stealth and be a great scout.. fairy probably best for this option as that'd also give a few utility spells like fairy fire and enlarge/reduce.. you can reduce yourself then go scout with your echo and be smaller than normal to be able to hide in much smaller locations as you spy)
also, you mentioned a few feats but since fighters get more feats than any other class you have options to take a few extra feats that you normally wouldnt take (as normally, while good, they'd use up feat options best used for asi or better options.. feats such as resiliance to gain an extra saving throw proficiency or skills expert to get expertice in a skill. throw skills expert onto the echo knight listed above and take stealth and now you're getting double proficiency on your stealth checks while you scout with your tiny flying echo.. thats really good for a scout..)
One really fun campaign idea with all fighters: a tournament campaign like “A Knight’s Tale”, but where the whole party participates. You can have an archer, a brawler, a fencer, and, of course, a jouster. This works so well with fighters specifically because they’re so versatile, and multiple party members can participate in multiple events.
Y’all _really_ slept on the Rune Knight. Like yes it’s mentioned but it has a Charm _reaction_, it has an ranged or melee Restrained free action, yes they are once per long rest but that’s still amazing for a fighter party
Man, I like what you guys presented here, but I'd go with the following:
Battle Master - Archer (need to bring down the dragon? 4 trip attacks coming their way)
Rune Knight: Shield + Unarmed Fighting (Big, tanky, meaty, holds foes in place and can still attack while doing so)
Eldritch Knight: GWM (tanky, lots of damage and spells for the right situation)
Echo Knight instead of Psi Warrior: PAM + Sentinel (hella control, crazy damage and fantastic utility/exploration)
Fighters also have a lot of ASIs, so just add some stuff like Alert to the grappler or Fey Touched to the Eldritch Knight and suddenly their combat becomes even more versatile
I second this: battle master could command from the back. And once he has Sharpshooter, his other ASI can go to Skills or magic to help skill. Same with the Rune Knight. He would be free to pick whatever skill the team needs like Healer or Gift of Metal dragons. Then the Eldritch Knight is very flexible in the support role since it has spell slots. They can grab Cure Wounds from a few feats, or Face tools like Mask of many Faces or Misty Visions. Also I definitely back the Echo Knight move. He can frontline from the backline to help the rear and can take a turn to help pass potions or bandages while the echo is still in position to crowd control.
This is unintentionally our 3 person party right now. 2 battlemasters and an Eldritch knight.
suggested solution to the lack of a face: bring a samurai. vuman for magic initiate: druid at level 1 for shillelagh (most important) and probably guidance and goodberry (just good to have). Wisdom is your primary stat, don't dump Charisma, grab skill expert for persuasion, samurai can add their wis to persuasion checks, by level 8 you can have +13 to persuasion before guidance, easy, or more if you put more focus on cha, and still be solid in a fight. Alternatively, if you're willing to let your build take a little longer to come fully online, play a halfelf for more stats, take magic initiate at level 4 instead, and now you can _also_ grab _elven accuracy_ for triple rolling on your free samurai advantage. Or on the other hand, play a hill dwarf and you can completely dump your physical stats to focus entirely on mental stats and constitution while still wearing the heaviest armor - though this route leaves you _completely useless_ for the first three levels of play, rather than just 'a little underpowered' like the half-elf route does.
Of course, the restriction on multiclassing sadly prohibits my favorite way to do this build: dip fey wanderer ranger for three levels, because, according to D&D Beyond, the third level fey wanderer ability and the seventh level samurai ability _do_ in fact stack XD
The game starts as Predator and ends as Tropic Thunder is probably one of the best D&D analogies ever!
Totally accurate start off at Knights of the Round Table with Monty Python and the Holy Grail. But the Predator Tropic Thunder analogies is so spot on
imo this party will have to be creative and have a GM who's really into narrative play. They can't magically divine info they need, and probably won't be great at sneaking in and spying on the enemy, but what they can do is kidnap a guard (or the guard's family, if they are evils) and get the info they need that way. When they go up against the dragon they'll have rigged a rock fall somewhere, like in the movies. Figuring out cool narrative ways of 'patching the holes' will be fun for GMs & players.
And they will prob have hedge wizard and/or herbalist healer NPC hired to hang around camp.
The reason you guys are seeing so many issues with the exploration and social pillars is that you're building your hypothetical party as if it WASN'T a party of full on combat blenders already. They're ALL fighters, they're all already great in combat and don't need cheese optimization to pull through most encounters. Instead, recognize that your combat prowess is already mostly good enough and you can afford to spend quite a few of your feats on things to shore up those other two pillars.
Not enough skills? One or two people pick skilled. Need expertise? Skill Expert/Prodigy. Missing that magic utility? Take ritual caster. Actor, Alert, Observant, Linguist, Dungeon Delver, etc..
There are so many feats that cover these areas if you allow yourself to not tunnel-vision solely on the cookie-cutter PAM/Sentinel/GWM-type combat setups.
Other classes get tons of ribbons to help in the other pillars, fighters don't. Instead they get feats, use them.
YES! Feats are what make fighters so versatile. When you can get up to 7-8 feats per fighter, totaling to 28-32 feats total, you can utilize quite a few, which normally are completely overlooked. Probably the all one class party I would want to play the most just for this reason.
Fully agree, plus there was almost no discussion on backgrounds. Each can pick a niche to cover with their background skills.
It's funny how in the campaign I'm currently in my Battle master has ended up being the party face because everyone else ignored that aspect when building. I eventually retrained one of my Maneuvers to Commanding Presence.
I feel like with fighters you really have to take advantage of the feats. Fighters get a crazy amount and should be utilized. Feats like skill expert or healer really come in handy.
As complicated as this might be, I have this idea for a campaign with 4-5 players who each have like 3 characters, but only play one at a time, in a themed group. Group Alpha would be the all-Wizard party, which adventures to find trouble spots in the Empire/Kingdom/whatever-it-is, Group Bravo is an all-rogue party which is dispatched to investigate the spots identified by Group Alpha and prioritize which are actual threats to the whatever-it-is, and Group Charlie is an all-fighter party sent out on the intel gathered by Group Bravo to eliminate those threats. Just geeking out on this idea, sorry for the interruption 🤓 😉
Dont be. My current campaign is just like that and it works great. I also have 2 tables playing the same campaign simultaneously, so whatever one table does, is canon for the other one. 😅
Love how I started watching you guys recently after worrying about the composition of our party, and now I as the fighter get to wonder with you guys about what my first ever class can do
Battle Master is the Archer, hands down. They can play as a "leader" using the manoeuvres.
42:37 Same thing I said with the Rogue party: this is a gear-based team. And the versatility and modularity of that means that this is the party that will be very dependent on those tactics and strategies, those ways to synergize and combo and cover weak spots.
After hearing you guys describe this party the only thing I could imagine was a team of Helldivers lmao
If you've watched the gauntlets over at CMCC Builds, I think you'd see the HUGE advantage of having the party focus on range. I've joked about having a SG-1 party of all sharpshooters just mowing down foes from a considerable distance. It would be disgustingly fun to witness.
I do think the battlemaster being the archer would be a good consideration based on the fact that they are hitting more consistently and can place their maneuvers where they want anywhere on the board.
Many of battle master dices use only melee weapon atacks so u have right but most of his tools work on short distsnce.
@@michalgrugel2326what? No. I just double checked, most maneuvers say Weapon Attack. Thus you can use melee or ranged, especially the important ones like Trip and groad
The scenario that pops up in my mind is to base it on the Aliens film.
A simple rescue mission gone wrong and all of the sudden they have to fight their way out with their resources slowly dwindling.
This party is a resource management/tactical combat game. You absolutely need a patron to provide those resources for the party, but it would be a cool concept to play anyway.
You got the king's executioners, who must go to a dungeon and vanquish the BBEG, with the kingdom's resources behind them. I'd dig it.
I think this party works the best if the DM plays into their limitations. They need tons of items to do well? Well, give them tons of weird and interesting items (almost no other party is better suited for it). Almost no way to deal with powerful casters? Make your spellcasters few and far between, and make them very scared to get up close with your party. They don’t specialize in a ton of skills? Make the skill checks skew more towards athletics and acrobatics, or tailor their experience towards their background skills.
Purple Dragon Knights would be stellar Healer's and overall Commander & face.
That’s an interesting point. Compared to all class/subclass options it’s not great, but when you are the only fighter among fighters that can heal, all of a sudden you are the most helpful.
@@sammylett3335Yup. And used when it's most needed, at 0. They also have Bulwark to possibly reroll *failed* rerolled mental saves a third time.
yeah, definitely surprisingly useful for this type of party composition.
Samurai subclass would really shine in this circumstance. A half elf Samurai could have a 14 in both wisdom and charisma while still have good strength and constitution. They can then add the +2 from both to persuasion checks. Add to that the half elf get +2 skills and the subclass gets +1 skill. You end up with a very well rounded social character that gets lots of feats to flesh things out.
It would be kinda cool maybe to have consumables like potions and feather-fall tokens, and scrolls be more important and something they have to think about preparing. The Eldritch Knight could also focus on utility feats and sacrifice some combat potency for utility, filling the role of the special or technician in an XCOM like team.
Totally, he can like grab more utility stuff than combat in this team. Like shape water and prestidigitation or mage hand.
43:10 maybe if it's relatively low level and you don't want to go too easy on then by always leaving a crazy number of healing potions everywhere the party goes, you could have a Druid in town, or nearby, whom they could purchase Goodberries from every time they're in town and ready to head out on a nearby quest. That could be a much cheaper way to bring unconscious allies back up than going through tons of portions. A Portion of Healing costs 50gp, so maybe the Druid only charges 10gp for a 1st level casting of Goodberry? On the one hand, it's a lot more potential opportunities to save an ally, for far lower cost, but on the other it only lasts a day, so I'd say that's a fair price.
I completely disagree with your take on exploration. You get each party member to focus on a different mental stat. Rather then stacking up damage feats you grab ones that help shore up a weakness. The damage feats are nice but absolutely not needed. I really feel like you guys made a huge misstep building this party.
Agreed eldrich Knight and psi warrior shout have at least 18 int cause their features are int based.
Should have replaced Psi Warrior with Samurai and made them the party face.
They should have a decent Wisdom and they can add the modifier to Charisma checks. Stack that with the Prodigy feat and you've got a pretty good setup for social situations
That sounds cool.
Thank you for mentioning The Black Company!! That’s my favorite series ever! Croaker was so relatable, the stories were so gritty …. I could go on all day.
My ideal team would be a sharpshooter battlemaster, a sword and board eldritch knight with utility spells and tanky haste+shield, a elf champion with elven accuracy and dual swords for maximum critical power on the prone enemies on behalf of the battlemaster, and an echo knight with sword and board that picks magic and healing feats to heal people from range and be the dude who fights all over
I can't speak of an all fighter game, but an all rogues game was just about enough to break me. It lasted 6 episodes and is still one of my most talked about games.
I think the Dudes were a little hungry when they started the stream, with all the food analogies :)
A mounted combat campaign would be absolutely epic to play. Good way to give advantage too.
I love this episode. Thank you guys for making it.
This is probably the most challenging setup so far. As the Dudes point out, there are massive holes in the defenses of this party, and in their tactical versatility; in particular, 5e's non-scaling saving throws are going to be a problem. It ends up feeling a bit like PF2e, where massive gaps in defenses are a given, and you're supposed to plug them with a good party composition and/or consumables. Which, all in all, isn't a bad thing - it can make for some very OSR-feeling encounters, where you have to nudge the conditions in your favor in order to prevail.
I'd probably suggest Resilient (Wisdom), possibly even Dexterity, for basically everyone at some point (they certainly have ASIs to spare), as well as any other ways to round out the group's defenses, even if it sacrifices DPR - they aren't going to be lacking in that department anyway. And yes, this party would definitely benefit from a wagonful of adventuring gear, which sounds like really fun time! You generally see stuff like tools, grappling hooks and ladders be rendered obsolete by spells as early as Tier II, but this party really needs it.
My friends and I love to theory-craft scenarios like this. We were actually in a party with 5 Clerics, each with a different subclass and deity. The RP opportunities were great. Four Fighters, all Human, one is the heavy guy, one is the quick guy, one takes the Skilled Feat and is Ranger-lite, and one is the Eldrich Knight.
“Foiled by the spell, snare, which I have seen casted maybe twice in my time playing” comes to mind for this parties weaknesses
All variant human, all start with Mounted Combat feat. Straight up vanguard horse squad. Four level 1 warriors with horse, shield, and spear ... and horse bows. They could vary out into specializations from that same start point to add depth, but having a literal unit either in an army or perhaps from a defeated army would be an interesting start for a campaign.
4:40- Candied-Bacon-Wrapped asparagus
Edit: 28:00- Well, that's where you incorporate Minion Rules, where physical attacks can cleave through multiple minions if the damage dealt is higher than the HP of the minion hit. (Ex: 3 Kobolds with 7 hp. Fighter deals 15 damage. 2 Kobolds die and third takes a point of damage. If using the 1hp minion rule, then for every 7 damage the Fighter deals, another minion in range dies, and that third Kobold would die despite not taking a full 7 damage)
I feel like that is fair. I do absolutely love doing cleave attacks in BG3, giving martial characters a taste of AOE attacks.
Your Eldritch Knight needs to be a Mark of Healing Halfling with the Ritual Caster Feat (Wizard Spell List).
And possibly the Healer Feat
They really missed the ball with their build by missing that rune knights get expertise with all tools they’re proficient with as long as they take the fire rune. With the fact that they get extra feats, allowing them to load up on lots of tool proficiencies, they’ll be getting expertise and/or advantage on a bunch of skill checks that cover the knowledge based skills, infiltration skills, and charisma skills, so they’ll be able to cover a lot of the utility, exploration, infiltration, and being a party face, and then the other fighters can worry about combat. And in some combination if all the fighters take chef, healer, and inspiring leader, they have a ton of healing and temporary hit points to work with on every short rest
Would definitely find a spot for echo knight. Would help exploration a ton. And crowd control.
And support with healing potions!
I think the largest indicator for whether this party will perform as an elite squadron of bastards or fumble through combat will be whether the GM allows them to take their turns at the same time or no. Hard to stay in formation behind the shield master when you move one-at-a-time and with enemy turns interrupting you.
What could be cool would be a merc guild where once you reach a rank you gain access to better gear that can be loadned out to the party
Prediction: eldritch knight, echo knight, rune knight, battlemaster. Battlemaster is dex based, our archer, who can do lock picking
I like your party.
Pretty nice group.
I think this one is really interesting for a couple reasons; 1) the overreliance on the Eldritch Knight for a bunch of specific useful things REALLY shows the power of magic across all pillars of play, and 2) team composition makes a lot more sense when you realise how much damage Fighters do but what they give up to GET that damage, and this is super noticeable when you only HAVE Fighters and no other classes to cover for their weaknesses (while other classes do ENOUGH damage but have a bunch of other redeeming features when they stand alone, so Fighter seems like an inherently more team-based class)
These videos are always giving such amazingly great concepts. I cannot wait for the Druid episode.
This type of video needs to be converted to spotify :)
These Fighters and an Abjuration Wizard to help with counter spells and mostly to take Tashas Bubbling cauldron if they can, and flavor it as a keg. They could do a keg stand on it as an action since it can't move, or to use the tap to get health pots. To go with your beer helmet Monty 16:26
This is my favourite series the Dudes have done, possibly ever.
The martial classes are really interesting in these types of videos. Access to spells inherently create such a dynamic versatility, so taking most of that away it makes you have to think a bit harder on your choices.
I think I would put echo knight over psi warrior.
You still have the ability to reduce damage by making your echo take the hit. It also gives this party an amazing ability to scout.
4:10 through like the 7 minute mark, it's just Bubba telling Forrest all the things you can do with Shrimp.
c'mon, guys.
12:34 my first thought for some reason was Charlie’s angles but they would be more rouges
Ooh I played a campaign of Solasta: Crown of the Magister, 5e CRPG, with an all-Fighter party. I went with two Champions, their totally-not-an-Eldritch-Knight, and their Mountaineer (shield, hold-the-line focus). I eventually toggled on settings like Anyone can use scrolls, Identify over a short rest, etc to help them along. But honestly it went pretty well! Solasta’s main campaign has long stretches of conflict where eking out a long rest is tough, and it takes food, so Hit Dice become a premium resource. Allfighter getting to short rest and get back Second Wind as a top-up helped a lot in those marathon delves. It was challenging, especially against significant casters and dragons, but it was super rewarding!
Your bacon analogy unlocked an old memory.We had a pre camp party and everyone had to bring a meat- I brought a flight of bacon. 5 kinds, pound each. Felt like a fighter going back for seconds.
45:30 Kelly suggested giving everyone a cloak of protection and seeing Monty‘s nostrils flare geeked me out 😂😂
All I think about is Defenders blasting in the background of every scene that totally wasn't meant for combat: "NOTHING LEFT BUT TO KEEP ON FIGHTING!"
Assuming attacking stats are maxed and all characgers have +3 weapons, were looking at around 24 dmg per hit. Multiply that by 8 you get 192. Multiply that by three and we have 576, one of them doesn't have great weapon master, so they're only doing 112. All together we're looking at an average of 688 dmg on their nova round. This is also assuming they arent using maneuvers, magic items, and other abilities to boost their dmg further...
42:13, the eldritch knight can go mark of healing halfling to add healing spells to there spell list. Replace your caster with a healer.