The three things about the fights, and make it legit is firstly the woman has to use weapons to achieve a force parity against men. The woman trying to match men directly in strength gets her clobbered. 3. The merciless, professional, assassin uses nasty, dirty, mean tricks to win.
I can't even explain how much i love and appreciate this video 👏🏽. I'm a huge fan of female action characters. It really sucks when they turn them into these "mary-sue" figures who can do almost anything because they're just that good. Or even worse, when they make all the male characters dumb to make her seem smart and powerful. You really did good with this video 🌷
I will throw in one counter-critique of Captain Marvel's attitude towards war that the presenter asserts here: "The woman, if realistic, does not want to fight and kill, but does so out of necessity." Since when? Understand that unlike some of them, Carol Danvers comes into this as someone who already volunteered for the military, and is a fighter pilot already, so it is understandible she has that fighter pilot personality (and if that matters more than her being a woman): be a real aggressive go-getter that is absolutely comfortable killing people in the air or on the ground. So while that might not be normal for most civilian women, for someone who has willingly volunteered for a combat position and spent years working at it, a certain amount of enthusiasm for combat and killing the enemy is normal and necessary. She's not malicious, but war is her chosen career, and unlike some of these others, she is suddenly very powerful in her own right, so if she comes off as not really having any restraint in using it, why is that weird? Perhaps the film could have done a better job of making that clear, but then what would that mean for all the "emotional" blah blah blah of the plot? They would have to choose some other emotional strings to tug at.
Agreed. They say so in the movie. She's a soldier. She's also insanely overpowered. She needed to "find herself" because she had amnesia and was being manipulated by her supposed comrades and leader. She was literally being held back by the central intelligence.
Great analysis and presentation. Men (and women) LOVE great female action leads WHEN they’re written well. That is no less true for male action leads (see John Wick vs. any more-recent Steven Seagal ‘character’). We like good characters and ‘good characters’ are NOT perfect. They all struggle and have to overcome. Thank you for making it all much clearer.
Hence why female action leads are inherently more interesting. There is a built in disadvantage. Of course the problem is the writers need to be clever enough to find innovative solutions to work around the physical limitations of the character and sadly clever writers are in short supply.
YES! I am so glad that you've done this video. Your videos are so fun because you talk about a lot of interesting stuff and you're compelling. You bring up stuff that I think sometimes, but don't know how to verbalize in a coherent way, but you can! Thanks for your service, lol. And I'm so glad you brought up Rey, I was waiting for that! How she was written has issues, haha.
Oh very Interesting. I’ve never seen Alien, although I don’t know if a character that has been written in a way that it could be played as either male or female is very compelling to me. I don’t think such a character is a good example of how to write a good *female* action lead, if being female had no impact on the character.
Alien is not an action movie. It's a sci-fi horror thriller. And with Alien: Romulus, you learn that Ripley doesn't even defeat the Xenomorph. While Ripley survives, she doesn't defeat her enemy, she merely survives. Action heroes need to win, not just live.
I don't think that example has ever held water under close scrutiny. If you ask people to quote something Ripley said in a movie today they will almost certainly cite a line from the 1986 sequel Aliens, not the original 1979 film Alien. In the original film Ripley is the twist sole survivor of a horror film set in against a science fiction backdrop. They even went so far as to cast more well known (at the time) actors in supporting roles in order to mislead the audience and obfuscate the true leading actor of the film. It only works because there is almost nothing to the character in the first place, because had film makers put more focus on the character of Ripley in the original film it would've given the twist away. Most of what we do know about Ripley (and what I imagine people strongly resonate with) is established in Aliens, where her identity as a woman and a mother is more fully explored indepth.
Amazing video! Structurally speaking, this is actually one of the better video essays I have seen. Every point makes sense and the transitions between them are seamless. It's great to get a recap at the end, it really helps. You even cut to yourself speaking to the camera at just the right time. You definitely deserve all the support you get, and I'll subscribe for sure :)
This is a great video. One of my favorite level the playing field fights was in True Romance with Patricia Arquette and James Gandollfini. It was brutal but the way she took him out was awesome. I also love Ripley vs the Alien Xenomorph Queen in Aliens. Great fight. I'm glad I watched this video. Keep up the good work. About to hit subscribe now.
I want more female superheroes because I want something unbelievable. My only problem is that they don't struggle to win. If they fix that, then it would be perfect.
@@ErikKemeeyKUVBBSJessica Jones was so good! I really enjoyed it after initially thinking it wouldn’t be my taste. I hope they integrate the actress into the MCU.
Great video, you shared a lot of great examples to support your points. I am surprised you didn't drop Ripley in as another example of a heroine forced to step into a heroic, action role that didn't enjoy it. She just did what had to be done.
I will recommend a couple of good female action examples here from TV: - Lagertha from Vikings. Really quite a dangerous warrior, takes her shieldmaiden role to heart and is still believable as the wife of a warrior and mother of another one. She can probably kill most of the average warrior men, but against the very best it is still likely a losing battle for her; still, those who figure she is an easy mark end up regretting that mistake. - Detective Sergeant Antigone "Ani" Bezzerides from True Detective season 2. She's pretty dangerous, being an accomplished cop, but when asked why she is always packing a knife and is *very* proficient at using it, she states her reasons plainly: getting into a fight with men generally means taking on someone who is likely to be much larger and stronger than she is, and having worse outcomes if she loses that fight; therefore, she considers the knife an equalizer that can save her life in the most dangerous of situations.
Excellent video! Have you seen the film Alita: Battle Angel? It came out shortly before Captain Marvel and especially when compared to that, is an excellent compare/contrast for how to write a great female lead. What I especially love is they made the male love-interest, basically just a gender-swapped Bond-girl... and people kind lost their minds, as if guys couldn't have their only valuable trait being to look hot... but otherwise be a complete idiot. But yeah, Alita is pretty awesome. I love seeing the differences between her, and a character like Iron Man, to your points exactly about how men and women are psychologically/emotionally different. Great video, have an awesome day!
With Captain Marvel, her whole thing was learning who she was. It was never about earning her strength. She got it from a freaking explosion. She was overpowered from the start, and she was unknowingly holding herself back through the lies she was told.
I have to admit I was with you for most of everything you said here about good female leads, but I actually love Captain Marvel. Is she OP? Sure, but she isn't some brainless and/or emotionless fighter who just loves killing stuff. Can she accept there will be casualties in war? Yes, because she comes from a military background who was a tough fighter pilot to boot--any women on active duty and not some desk job have to be willing to develop a tough-as-nails exterior attitude and the ability to compartmentalize what is going on. She does have her own baggage she has to work through in The Marvels associated with all her time away from her best friend who dies of cancer shortly after she comes home at the end of Infinity War/beginning of Endgame, and she has to have the help of her best friend's daughter as well as the super quirky and lovable Kamala Khan to get through it, and I did appreciate the montage of them training to figure out their new swapping ability due to their powers becomes interlinked. I actually wished the movie was longer, because my biggest question after it was done was: what happened to the people on the water planet after a bunch of their water was syphoned off? Are they okay? I really hope Marvel will answer that question some time in the future. I really don't have a problem with some women characters enjoying a good fight, I just don't want all of them like that. I was fine with Rey in The Force Awakens but did have a problem with her and the movies in general starting with The Last Jedi. That movie just sucked in general, and The Rise of Skywalker couldn't undo the damage caused by its predecessor either.
Sofia Falcone is the perfect example of a well written female lead. She's complex but understandable. Rey is the perfect example of a terrible female lead character. She's a boring Mary Sue that's perfect at everything. Just hire good writers it's not that hard.
I agree with a lot if this, but I don’t think training is always necessary. That can interfere with the pacing of a film. It depends on the context whether it’s necessary or not. When it comes to levelling the playing field, I mostly agree with what you said. There are some exceptions, though. Like if the woman is as big and strong as Gina Carano, she doesn’t really need to level the playing field when fighting a lot of men. At least in Haywire, I thought her fights were very believable. She’d probably beat Michael Fassbender and Ewan McGregor I’m a fight in real life. Generally though, yeah. I’m particularly fond of the thigh strangulation move women use more.
I agree about the training potentially messing up the pacing. Which is why I think that it is acceptable at times to just quickly and subtly *imply* that there was training rather than showing it. As for Gina Carano, she is kind of the exception to the rule. She’s a beast and her fight scenes are definitely more believable than a lot of other, smaller actresses. With someone like her, you can for sure have her fight differently than an actress like Rebecca Ferguson or Emily Blunt.
@@KatesRealTakes Agreed. I think the Tomb Raider film with Alicia Vikander did a very good job in showing how a smaller woman can get the upper hand in a fight.
KATE was amazing. I really enjoyed that one. I watched it because I liked the actress in Gemini Man…which I think is underrated in its own right. That’s just my opinion though. 👍
A thing I never understand: The whole media say that we are weak and opressed victims of the patriarchy from the evil white man and we should be afraid all the time. Then they say that will do empowered films and series, but instead of show an underdog woman overcoming her weakness and whining over the patriarchy they do a film were the women are stronger than everyman and they all are not just dumb but pander to her. Where this is empowering? Thats 100% not relatable.
Agreed, I think it’s way more fun when the men and women work together rather than being pitted against one another. Movies that say that women are just better than men are just stupid
Emily blunt's so believable in that role. They have mech suits so physical brawn is not a factor, and she is clearly highly competent without being a Mary sue. Even the romantic subplot mostly serves to distract Tom cruises character rather than soften her resolve. Poor Daisy Ridley could be universally loved if the sequels had given Rey the same respect.
Exactly. Daisy Ridley did great, and Rey as a character had a lot of potential, but one gets the feeling the executives & therefore the writers never really had any clear idea what to do with Rey as the main character, or any of the other characters, for that matter. They half-assed it, and to this day, the hill I will die on re: Star Wars sequels is that the problem was not the actors, or the characters existing, but rather how inconsistent and dumbed-down the writing & plot was.
Growing up on Hong Kong Kung Fu flicks and all kinds of action movies from the 80s and 90s i never had a problem believing them. a fun western one from back then was The Long Kiss Goodnight.
it is very intersting how we've gotten more interesting, nuamced male characters.. who show emotions, have internal conflicts etc. Where female character looks like a lot of 80'ies male heroes now. Like most of Arnold Schwarzenegger's movie, were to kill a person and do a funny one liner is truely psychotic (how ever fun it is)
Good essay: having acknowledged the (obvious) physical differences between men and women, the next level is to think about what a female protagonist might look like: maybe entirely different value set and motivation. Maybe even the hero journey thing doesn’t translate so easily.
One thing I will disagree with is Cpt Marvel she was a trained pilot (very good) and she trained a ton with the Kree most of which we didn't see but she was with them for 6 years training to fight Skrulls. She was forced to not use her power by the Supreme Intelligence who placed a Photon inhibitor on her to restrain her powers. When she got too emotional she would sometimes let off a photon blast and that is why the Kree made her keep her emotions in check and that they were bad. She is an extremely strong character both in the MCU and in the comics and is an equal match for top tier males in both. As Marvel Studios' Kevin Feige has said, "Captain Marvel, she is as powerful a character as we've ever put in a movie. Her powers are off the charts, and when she's introduced, she will be by far the strongest character we've ever had." Most people had an issue with her because her acting was wooden but that is what the Kree made her, they drove her to leave emotion out of everything she did hence Bree Larson had to act that way. I was surprised at all the idiot gatekeepers that didn't get that.
Jason Bourne is a good example of a well written action hero. One of the most bad a characters in movie history but still heavily flawed, and that's what people like about him.
This topic is more complicated though. Anyway, here's some of my favorites: Yes, Madam 1985, In the line of duty 4, Iron angels 1987, Nausicaä 1984, Lady Eboshi in Princess Mononoke, The operator in The night comes for us, Chocolate 2008, Raging phoenix 2009, Moribito 2007, Vivy: Fluorite eye's song, 86 & Police story 3
4:12 Interesting Fun fact In most species of spiders, the females are stronger. They could of had the aliens in Avatar get the same attributes, but obviously chose to make them similar to humans.
This is what I was thinking. The Na'vi are aliens, so imagine if the females were huge and much stronger (like spiders), and the males were basically just there to fertilize them and act as healers or worker drones. Maybe during tough times, the females cannibalize the males, and the males just accept this as how life goes (as with a preying mantis). Well... they were meant to be alien but not that alien.
You can have action cred walking in the door. If you have Charlize Theron in a role, then you'd have good will from the start. When she shows up to Furiosa, she's got a little good will and a persona developed through other films. And power levels have a logic. It's not just the Sarah Connor trains. Hamilton clearly worked out. And they edited it to conceal any obvious use of stunt people. By contrast, a scene demonstrated a character as powerful would be cheap if reliant on overt CGI. Practical effects and clever shots are more convincing. Additionally, there's a (kinda, sorta) logic to why Chris Hemsworth or Hugh Jackman have to get absolutely ripped. If power level are arbitrary, then there's no reason why you couldn't make a guy who looks like Michael Sheen the most physically powerful character in your universe. It's a quirk of suspension of disbelief. A character can be believed to have the physical strength to pick up a sky scraper, but it as least needs to look like he has a muscular structure consistent with hitting the gym once or twice (as a signifier). I think it's a similar dynamic to why Michelle Yeoh works in action. If the actor is nearer to the character, then you reduce the extent even marginally to which suspension of disbelief has to do heavy lifting. (I don't know if this point is convincing, but I've spent an unreasonable time wondering what the hulk's muscles mean and thinking about why I struggled with Furiosa. I accepted Theron in the role without an instance of pause. But the second actress just seemed like she had a physique that screamed muscle-wasting disorder. It seems like it means something that Angelina Jolie had to work out for Tomb Raider or that people might have accepted Cynthia Rothrock as an action lead, but might have issues if you cast someone diminutive like Ariana Grande). Suspension of disbelief isn't all or nothing. You occupy a space between realism and absurdity. If you can earn getting away with an absurdity of 6/10, then someone shouldn't take for granted that you'll follow them to a 7/10. Training sequences and being artful help. With rey, people would scoff and say "oh, you can accept space wizards, but you can't accept Rey?". Yes, exactly so. Luke has an absurdity of 6. Rey is nearer to 9.
Well, one commonality of both Sarah Connor and Furiosa was that their hardness was due to extreme circumstances driving them to a sort of to dedicate themselves 100% to becoming a living weapon. Furiosa was a captive of a post-apocalyptic cult and had to be scary even among their members if she was not going to be used as breeding stock or worse. Sarah Connor originally was just a waitress, an ordinary girl faced with impossible dangers in the first film, but by the second film, knowing what she knows about the future, is is pretty much pre-ordained that she has to become John's warrior mom, and it is implied she joined up with (and maybe became a barracks bunny for) all sort of insurgents and mercs, just so she could learn things that she could teach her son. Easy to get into the characterization of both of them because there is an apocalyptic logic to both of them that makes perfect sense given the context of the stories.
@@wyldhowl2821 I was thinking about it some more. I assumed any model to be incomplete. Sure I think there are other variables you could define in coming up with a grand unified theory of suspension of disbelief. Currently, I think we have 1) goodwill associated with a star persona 2) general believability 3) specifics of how artful the filmmaker is in showing (rather than telling) 4) internal genre logic (eg. magic having a cost, physique having a correlation with ability). The worst case is a character who doesn't look the part, is underdeveloped so their motivations turn on a dime (or are a pure blank), relies on crude exposition and CGI to establish their power level, and violates genre rules (eg. can trot out new powers at will and without cost, such that it completely breaks any tension). Another character who is forged in a similar way is Ellen Ripley. Alien 1-3? great character. Alien 4? They dialled up her power levels and includes cheap scenes of her abilities. There's a specific scene where, I think, she throws a basketball over her shoulder while walking away. If the actress can do it, then that gets something that you don't get if you CGI it or if the ball goes out of frame. And the writer of the dismal Alien 4 project was Joss Whedon.
Anya never throw a punch in her movie it has all weapon teach based. And even if she did she was easily take over by pretorian Jack. She only kicked one octoboss minion when he was burning and throwing him out of the war rig The only reason she defeated dementus was because she spent the final act chasing him and torture him until he is finally chain up, she never goes full rey skywalker and have a clumsy lightsaber fight. Hell if you ask me ana de armas feels more out of place un the john wick universe than anya taylor-joy in the mad max world since this one is more crazy and chaotic, but of course bitching are bitching as long you don't care.
@@motor4X4kombat You're taking this a little personally. My only familiarity with Anya prior to Furiosa was advertising for Queen's Gambit. It just seemed an odd fit. And the Theron iteration went toe to toe with max in a dirty, highly physical fight.
@@victorcates9330 well that pretty much showcase that you didn't even saw the film in the first place. Yes she went toe to toe with max because she was in her prime, in this movie she is younger and inexperience. (its a prequel for god sakes, and they didn't want to cgi the shit out of theron like mark hammil in the mandalorian) PS: anya is an amazing actress and you should watch films like the witch, split, emma, the menu, last night on soho, and ACTUALLY watch queen gambit and not judge her based on a friggin poster. Unless you can only dumb action films and nothing else.
Men LOVE believable, good female characters of ANY kind, including action leads / co-leads! Critical Drinker's very first video made that point to perfection.
It's true. The thing most people hate is actually when gimmicks get foisted on us, by sloppy writing and executive fiat; regardless of whether the intentions are noble or just cynical marketing, it always leave a bad taste in one's month. CD however is more about pushing political nonsense these days, not genuine reviewing.
there has ben many great female action leads in the past but at this point after all the girl bosses I have no desire to watch anything female centered ever again
@@KatesRealTakes to be fair girl bosses are only part of the reason I do not watch movies any more, I will wait until all the current studios go under and people who actually understand how to make movies and want to make entertaining movies start up. The entire movie industry is dead
You shouldn't talk about female action heroes without talking about the Queen of them all Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She carried a 7 season series that had a 5 season spinoff based on an original movie. No one else comes close in complexity of character development and growth or exciting stories.
You missed one that they almost always miss. You need to have the actresses actually look the part. Male actors will usually bulk up for action roles, actresses almost never do.
I actually did mention that in this longer outro that I had, but I cut it because the outro was too long haha. But I was comparing Sarah Conner to Jessica Alba’s character in Trigger Warning. Sarah Conner actually looked fit and was somewhat tall. Jessica alba is a tiny twig, yet we’re supposed to believe in that movie that’s she out there sucker punching and head locking these men more than twice her size. So I totally agree with you! The women need to look the part as well.
Even Azula was pretty believable, we didn't see her training but they showed she has been training hard to get to the point that she's at, she is a bit heartless and selfish but that's only because of her upbringing. There are reasons to her character, she isn't just there to be a badass woman.
ALL the bad guys in Flacon and Winter Soldier had full-on super soldier serum, Bucky only ever had the knock-off one someone tried to make in the 1930's that wasn't close to being as good, so them being substantially stronger than him (but NOT stronger than John Walker, who with military training on top was able to take them out) just like Steve was stronger than him, makes sense. It was only his training and special fake-arm that let him keep it as close as it was instead of getting a hole stomped in him every time he went against them. Plus Captain Marvel is by far the most powerful character that we have seen in the MCU going off the power-levels in the comics, and the Kree had been manipulating her to not use all of her power. Everything else was spot on though.
Yeah, the whole gleeful killing machine + good guy thing doesn't really work for me. Strident invulnerability is also very, very boring. It's cheap. Anyway, loved your breakdown! Also enjoyed the "Twisters" review. :)
I am somewhat confused by this video. Firstly the fixation that an action-focused heroine can’t like her job is odd to me. While someone who wishes to do something else can be an interesting character, sure, why can’t a heroine genuinely enjoy her job? After all, male characters are often portrayed enjoying their job as being a hero. Or would you say male action-focused characters also shouldn’t be shown to love their job? Also I find the criticism of Galadriel in the Lord of the Rings show being a competent fighter, odd. From a book context, in History of Middle Earth, Unfinished Tales, and Silmarillion, there are examples of her fighting both directly and being a lesser commander of an army, to say nothing of how she attacks Sauron’s Mirkwood fortress twice (the second time razing it with her powers) per the Hobbit and LOTR novels. Also, JRRT writes her younger state as being kinda prideful. In the films, if you prefer to use them as the sources, she disintegrates an orc and uses more magic to fight Sauron, so her being willing to fight evil and also smart enough to use a weapon when she hasn’t yet gotten to that level of magical power makes sense to me. Even Gandalf, Witch-King, Saruman, and Sauron sometimes use their bludgeons/swords to fight in the films and for that matter Gandalf and Witch-King use melee weapons in the novels.
To clear up any confusion, the distaste of violence is something that should apply to both men and women. I never said that it is acceptable for male characters to enjoy it but unacceptable for females. I think it’s unacceptable for both. Neither should not enjoy hurting and killing others. As for Galadriel, my criticism of her was not that she is a competent fighter when she shouldn’t be. My criticism was of how much she appears to enjoy the fights she was in. For many of the fight scenes she appeared to be having fun with it. I don’t think violence and death is something anyone should enjoy.
Maybe I missed it or you haven't seen the two films But I don't think you mentioned Ellen Ripley probably the best example of a female character in movie history Action movies I mean lol
I think I understand the point you are making, but using Avatar to make the point seems a bit odd. Space aliens on another planet could have larger females and smaller males, or seven genders, or no differentiation, or... Literally any kind of pattern in how they portray the ranges of size and strength of the characters and be equally believable. Having large males and small females on Pandora was just a totally arbitrary choice, not something that was correct or incorrect.
For this video essay, I was strictly looking at stories where men are stronger than women, as that is what is realistic and what we see in the majority of stories. And the Navi were good examples of this dynamic. Obviously if someone created a story where the men aren’t stronger than the women, this video would not apply and those characters would need to be written differently.
atomic blonde shows a great fight for men vs woman
Loved that fight. also an epic fight that few people saw was Gina Carano vs Michael Fassbender in Haywire.
The three things about the fights, and make it legit is firstly the woman has to use weapons to achieve a force parity against men. The woman trying to match men directly in strength gets her clobbered. 3. The merciless, professional, assassin uses nasty, dirty, mean tricks to win.
I can't even explain how much i love and appreciate this video 👏🏽. I'm a huge fan of female action characters. It really sucks when they turn them into these "mary-sue" figures who can do almost anything because they're just that good. Or even worse, when they make all the male characters dumb to make her seem smart and powerful. You really did good with this video 🌷
I will throw in one counter-critique of Captain Marvel's attitude towards war that the presenter asserts here: "The woman, if realistic, does not want to fight and kill, but does so out of necessity." Since when?
Understand that unlike some of them, Carol Danvers comes into this as someone who already volunteered for the military, and is a fighter pilot already, so it is understandible she has that fighter pilot personality (and if that matters more than her being a woman): be a real aggressive go-getter that is absolutely comfortable killing people in the air or on the ground. So while that might not be normal for most civilian women, for someone who has willingly volunteered for a combat position and spent years working at it, a certain amount of enthusiasm for combat and killing the enemy is normal and necessary. She's not malicious, but war is her chosen career, and unlike some of these others, she is suddenly very powerful in her own right, so if she comes off as not really having any restraint in using it, why is that weird?
Perhaps the film could have done a better job of making that clear, but then what would that mean for all the "emotional" blah blah blah of the plot? They would have to choose some other emotional strings to tug at.
Agreed. They say so in the movie. She's a soldier. She's also insanely overpowered. She needed to "find herself" because she had amnesia and was being manipulated by her supposed comrades and leader. She was literally being held back by the central intelligence.
Don't make your female characters "Mary Sue."
Great analysis and presentation. Men (and women) LOVE great female action leads WHEN they’re written well. That is no less true for male action leads (see John Wick vs. any more-recent Steven Seagal ‘character’). We like good characters and ‘good characters’ are NOT perfect. They all struggle and have to overcome. Thank you for making it all much clearer.
Hence why female action leads are inherently more interesting. There is a built in disadvantage.
Of course the problem is the writers need to be clever enough to find innovative solutions to work around the physical limitations of the character and sadly clever writers are in short supply.
YES! I am so glad that you've done this video. Your videos are so fun because you talk about a lot of interesting stuff and you're compelling. You bring up stuff that I think sometimes, but don't know how to verbalize in a coherent way, but you can! Thanks for your service, lol. And I'm so glad you brought up Rey, I was waiting for that! How she was written has issues, haha.
Thank you thank you! I was pretty happy with this video, glad you liked it too!
One that DID just swap from male to female and still worked was the original Alien movie. The Ripley character was originally going to be male.
Oh very Interesting. I’ve never seen Alien, although I don’t know if a character that has been written in a way that it could be played as either male or female is very compelling to me. I don’t think such a character is a good example of how to write a good *female* action lead, if being female had no impact on the character.
Alien does actually have much action on the part of people. Ripley mainly runs away and hides, so sex makes little difference.
I think that is part of it. Without technological assistance, no human can take a xenomorph in a straight-up fight.
Alien is not an action movie. It's a sci-fi horror thriller. And with Alien: Romulus, you learn that Ripley doesn't even defeat the Xenomorph. While Ripley survives, she doesn't defeat her enemy, she merely survives. Action heroes need to win, not just live.
I don't think that example has ever held water under close scrutiny. If you ask people to quote something Ripley said in a movie today they will almost certainly cite a line from the 1986 sequel Aliens, not the original 1979 film Alien. In the original film Ripley is the twist sole survivor of a horror film set in against a science fiction backdrop. They even went so far as to cast more well known (at the time) actors in supporting roles in order to mislead the audience and obfuscate the true leading actor of the film. It only works because there is almost nothing to the character in the first place, because had film makers put more focus on the character of Ripley in the original film it would've given the twist away. Most of what we do know about Ripley (and what I imagine people strongly resonate with) is established in Aliens, where her identity as a woman and a mother is more fully explored indepth.
Amazing video! Structurally speaking, this is actually one of the better video essays I have seen. Every point makes sense and the transitions between them are seamless. It's great to get a recap at the end, it really helps. You even cut to yourself speaking to the camera at just the right time. You definitely deserve all the support you get, and I'll subscribe for sure :)
Thanks so much! Very kind of you to say :)
This is a great video. One of my favorite level the playing field fights was in True Romance with Patricia Arquette and James Gandollfini. It was brutal but the way she took him out was awesome. I also love Ripley vs the Alien Xenomorph Queen in Aliens. Great fight. I'm glad I watched this video. Keep up the good work. About to hit subscribe now.
Thanks so much!
Aliens made female action leads 'believable'. Also, The Long Kiss Goodnight with Geena Davis deserves recognition here.
I want more female superheroes because I want something unbelievable. My only problem is that they don't struggle to win. If they fix that, then it would be perfect.
When does this happen?
Have u watched shows like Jessica Jones
@ErikKemeeyKUVBBS That show was good! We need more of that. My only complaint is the inconsistent power levels.
@@ErikKemeeyKUVBBSJessica Jones was so good! I really enjoyed it after initially thinking it wouldn’t be my taste. I hope they integrate the actress into the MCU.
the hair is awesome!
lol thank you!!
Great video, you shared a lot of great examples to support your points.
I am surprised you didn't drop Ripley in as another example of a heroine forced to step into a heroic, action role that didn't enjoy it. She just did what had to be done.
I loved, loved lady Jessica in Dune. Just amazing
I will recommend a couple of good female action examples here from TV:
- Lagertha from Vikings. Really quite a dangerous warrior, takes her shieldmaiden role to heart and is still believable as the wife of a warrior and mother of another one. She can probably kill most of the average warrior men, but against the very best it is still likely a losing battle for her; still, those who figure she is an easy mark end up regretting that mistake.
- Detective Sergeant Antigone "Ani" Bezzerides from True Detective season 2. She's pretty dangerous, being an accomplished cop, but when asked why she is always packing a knife and is *very* proficient at using it, she states her reasons plainly: getting into a fight with men generally means taking on someone who is likely to be much larger and stronger than she is, and having worse outcomes if she loses that fight; therefore, she considers the knife an equalizer that can save her life in the most dangerous of situations.
Subscribed at 75 subscribers. Hope you go far, as your takes are kategorically interesting!
Good one 😂 and thank you thank you!
Excellent video! Have you seen the film Alita: Battle Angel? It came out shortly before Captain Marvel and especially when compared to that, is an excellent compare/contrast for how to write a great female lead. What I especially love is they made the male love-interest, basically just a gender-swapped Bond-girl... and people kind lost their minds, as if guys couldn't have their only valuable trait being to look hot... but otherwise be a complete idiot.
But yeah, Alita is pretty awesome. I love seeing the differences between her, and a character like Iron Man, to your points exactly about how men and women are psychologically/emotionally different.
Great video, have an awesome day!
Hmm I have not seen it, but sounds interesting. And thanks! Have an awesome day as well :)
With Captain Marvel, her whole thing was learning who she was. It was never about earning her strength. She got it from a freaking explosion. She was overpowered from the start, and she was unknowingly holding herself back through the lies she was told.
I have to admit I was with you for most of everything you said here about good female leads, but I actually love Captain Marvel. Is she OP? Sure, but she isn't some brainless and/or emotionless fighter who just loves killing stuff. Can she accept there will be casualties in war? Yes, because she comes from a military background who was a tough fighter pilot to boot--any women on active duty and not some desk job have to be willing to develop a tough-as-nails exterior attitude and the ability to compartmentalize what is going on. She does have her own baggage she has to work through in The Marvels associated with all her time away from her best friend who dies of cancer shortly after she comes home at the end of Infinity War/beginning of Endgame, and she has to have the help of her best friend's daughter as well as the super quirky and lovable Kamala Khan to get through it, and I did appreciate the montage of them training to figure out their new swapping ability due to their powers becomes interlinked. I actually wished the movie was longer, because my biggest question after it was done was: what happened to the people on the water planet after a bunch of their water was syphoned off? Are they okay? I really hope Marvel will answer that question some time in the future. I really don't have a problem with some women characters enjoying a good fight, I just don't want all of them like that. I was fine with Rey in The Force Awakens but did have a problem with her and the movies in general starting with The Last Jedi. That movie just sucked in general, and The Rise of Skywalker couldn't undo the damage caused by its predecessor either.
Sofia Falcone is the perfect example of a well written female lead. She's complex but understandable. Rey is the perfect example of a terrible female lead character. She's a boring Mary Sue that's perfect at everything. Just hire good writers it's not that hard.
great show in general
@@realchezboi Indeed The Penguin was brilliant.
I agree with a lot if this, but I don’t think training is always necessary. That can interfere with the pacing of a film. It depends on the context whether it’s necessary or not.
When it comes to levelling the playing field, I mostly agree with what you said. There are some exceptions, though. Like if the woman is as big and strong as Gina Carano, she doesn’t really need to level the playing field when fighting a lot of men. At least in Haywire, I thought her fights were very believable. She’d probably beat Michael Fassbender and Ewan McGregor I’m a fight in real life. Generally though, yeah. I’m particularly fond of the thigh strangulation move women use more.
I agree about the training potentially messing up the pacing. Which is why I think that it is acceptable at times to just quickly and subtly *imply* that there was training rather than showing it.
As for Gina Carano, she is kind of the exception to the rule. She’s a beast and her fight scenes are definitely more believable than a lot of other, smaller actresses. With someone like her, you can for sure have her fight differently than an actress like Rebecca Ferguson or Emily Blunt.
@@KatesRealTakes Agreed. I think the Tomb Raider film with Alicia Vikander did a very good job in showing how a smaller woman can get the upper hand in a fight.
have you seen the movie "Kate"? that actually has a great action lead
I haven’t, but it is on my watchlist!
KATE was amazing. I really enjoyed that one. I watched it because I liked the actress in Gemini Man…which I think is underrated in its own right. That’s just my opinion though. 👍
I remember when the Hunger Games girl said she was proud to be the first Women in an action movie, she must not have watched Kill Bill and Aliens
A thing I never understand:
The whole media say that we are weak and opressed victims of the patriarchy from the evil white man and we should be afraid all the time.
Then they say that will do empowered films and series, but instead of show an underdog woman overcoming her weakness and whining over the patriarchy they do a film were the women are stronger than everyman and they all are not just dumb but pander to her.
Where this is empowering?
Thats 100% not relatable.
Agreed, I think it’s way more fun when the men and women work together rather than being pitted against one another. Movies that say that women are just better than men are just stupid
Emily blunt's so believable in that role. They have mech suits so physical brawn is not a factor, and she is clearly highly competent without being a Mary sue. Even the romantic subplot mostly serves to distract Tom cruises character rather than soften her resolve.
Poor Daisy Ridley could be universally loved if the sequels had given Rey the same respect.
Poor Daisy Ridley, poor Rey 😂
Exactly. Daisy Ridley did great, and Rey as a character had a lot of potential, but one gets the feeling the executives & therefore the writers never really had any clear idea what to do with Rey as the main character, or any of the other characters, for that matter. They half-assed it, and to this day, the hill I will die on re: Star Wars sequels is that the problem was not the actors, or the characters existing, but rather how inconsistent and dumbed-down the writing & plot was.
@wyldhowl2821 yes. I have no other interpretation than corporate contempt for the fanbase, the franchise and the craft of movie making
"To that I say boooo" 😂
Growing up on Hong Kong Kung Fu flicks and all kinds of action movies from the 80s and 90s i never had a problem believing them. a fun western one from back then was The Long Kiss Goodnight.
marvel hasn't made a good movie in general since Toby's Spiderman trilogy. we miss you toby!
it is very intersting how we've gotten more interesting, nuamced male characters.. who show emotions, have internal conflicts etc. Where female character looks like a lot of 80'ies male heroes now. Like most of Arnold Schwarzenegger's movie, were to kill a person and do a funny one liner is truely psychotic (how ever fun it is)
You must watch more movies then
Good essay: having acknowledged the (obvious) physical differences between men and women, the next level is to think about what a female protagonist might look like: maybe entirely different value set and motivation. Maybe even the hero journey thing doesn’t translate so easily.
One thing I will disagree with is Cpt Marvel she was a trained pilot (very good) and she trained a ton with the Kree most of which we didn't see but she was with them for 6 years training to fight Skrulls. She was forced to not use her power by the Supreme Intelligence who placed a Photon inhibitor on her to restrain her powers. When she got too emotional she would sometimes let off a photon blast and that is why the Kree made her keep her emotions in check and that they were bad. She is an extremely strong character both in the MCU and in the comics and is an equal match for top tier males in both.
As Marvel Studios' Kevin Feige has said, "Captain Marvel, she is as powerful a character as we've ever put in a movie. Her powers are off the charts, and when she's introduced, she will be by far the strongest character we've ever had."
Most people had an issue with her because her acting was wooden but that is what the Kree made her, they drove her to leave emotion out of everything she did hence Bree Larson had to act that way. I was surprised at all the idiot gatekeepers that didn't get that.
No man is so good without training
No woman is so good without training
Pretty dissapointed that you didn't mentioned furiosa
You nailed it
Jason Bourne is a good example of a well written action hero. One of the most bad a characters in movie history but still heavily flawed, and that's what people like about him.
This topic is more complicated though. Anyway, here's some of my favorites: Yes, Madam 1985, In the line of duty 4, Iron angels 1987, Nausicaä 1984, Lady Eboshi in Princess Mononoke, The operator in The night comes for us, Chocolate 2008, Raging phoenix 2009, Moribito 2007, Vivy: Fluorite eye's song, 86 & Police story 3
Don’t even get me started about captain marvel! 💀😂 I love all your points! So spot on!! Hopefully we get more good female roles in future movies!
I’m sure we will! Hopefully lol
Really well said and really great video!
Nice work, you have my sub! 😊
Yay thanks!
4:12 Interesting
Fun fact
In most species of spiders, the females are stronger. They could of had the aliens in Avatar get the same attributes, but obviously chose to make them similar to humans.
This is what I was thinking. The Na'vi are aliens, so imagine if the females were huge and much stronger (like spiders), and the males were basically just there to fertilize them and act as healers or worker drones. Maybe during tough times, the females cannibalize the males, and the males just accept this as how life goes (as with a preying mantis).
Well... they were meant to be alien but not that alien.
I would say your last 2 points are essential for all action characters both men and women. In some respects they should apply all characters.
You can have action cred walking in the door. If you have Charlize Theron in a role, then you'd have good will from the start. When she shows up to Furiosa, she's got a little good will and a persona developed through other films.
And power levels have a logic. It's not just the Sarah Connor trains. Hamilton clearly worked out. And they edited it to conceal any obvious use of stunt people. By contrast, a scene demonstrated a character as powerful would be cheap if reliant on overt CGI. Practical effects and clever shots are more convincing. Additionally, there's a (kinda, sorta) logic to why Chris Hemsworth or Hugh Jackman have to get absolutely ripped. If power level are arbitrary, then there's no reason why you couldn't make a guy who looks like Michael Sheen the most physically powerful character in your universe. It's a quirk of suspension of disbelief. A character can be believed to have the physical strength to pick up a sky scraper, but it as least needs to look like he has a muscular structure consistent with hitting the gym once or twice (as a signifier). I think it's a similar dynamic to why Michelle Yeoh works in action. If the actor is nearer to the character, then you reduce the extent even marginally to which suspension of disbelief has to do heavy lifting. (I don't know if this point is convincing, but I've spent an unreasonable time wondering what the hulk's muscles mean and thinking about why I struggled with Furiosa. I accepted Theron in the role without an instance of pause. But the second actress just seemed like she had a physique that screamed muscle-wasting disorder. It seems like it means something that Angelina Jolie had to work out for Tomb Raider or that people might have accepted Cynthia Rothrock as an action lead, but might have issues if you cast someone diminutive like Ariana Grande).
Suspension of disbelief isn't all or nothing. You occupy a space between realism and absurdity. If you can earn getting away with an absurdity of 6/10, then someone shouldn't take for granted that you'll follow them to a 7/10. Training sequences and being artful help. With rey, people would scoff and say "oh, you can accept space wizards, but you can't accept Rey?". Yes, exactly so. Luke has an absurdity of 6. Rey is nearer to 9.
Well, one commonality of both Sarah Connor and Furiosa was that their hardness was due to extreme circumstances driving them to a sort of to dedicate themselves 100% to becoming a living weapon. Furiosa was a captive of a post-apocalyptic cult and had to be scary even among their members if she was not going to be used as breeding stock or worse. Sarah Connor originally was just a waitress, an ordinary girl faced with impossible dangers in the first film, but by the second film, knowing what she knows about the future, is is pretty much pre-ordained that she has to become John's warrior mom, and it is implied she joined up with (and maybe became a barracks bunny for) all sort of insurgents and mercs, just so she could learn things that she could teach her son. Easy to get into the characterization of both of them because there is an apocalyptic logic to both of them that makes perfect sense given the context of the stories.
@@wyldhowl2821 I was thinking about it some more. I assumed any model to be incomplete. Sure I think there are other variables you could define in coming up with a grand unified theory of suspension of disbelief. Currently, I think we have 1) goodwill associated with a star persona 2) general believability 3) specifics of how artful the filmmaker is in showing (rather than telling) 4) internal genre logic (eg. magic having a cost, physique having a correlation with ability).
The worst case is a character who doesn't look the part, is underdeveloped so their motivations turn on a dime (or are a pure blank), relies on crude exposition and CGI to establish their power level, and violates genre rules (eg. can trot out new powers at will and without cost, such that it completely breaks any tension).
Another character who is forged in a similar way is Ellen Ripley. Alien 1-3? great character. Alien 4? They dialled up her power levels and includes cheap scenes of her abilities. There's a specific scene where, I think, she throws a basketball over her shoulder while walking away. If the actress can do it, then that gets something that you don't get if you CGI it or if the ball goes out of frame. And the writer of the dismal Alien 4 project was Joss Whedon.
Anya never throw a punch in her movie it has all weapon teach based. And even if she did she was easily take over by pretorian Jack. She only kicked one octoboss minion when he was burning and throwing him out of the war rig
The only reason she defeated dementus was because she spent the final act chasing him and torture him until he is finally chain up, she never goes full rey skywalker and have a clumsy lightsaber fight.
Hell if you ask me ana de armas feels more out of place un the john wick universe than anya taylor-joy in the mad max world since this one is more crazy and chaotic, but of course bitching are bitching as long you don't care.
@@motor4X4kombat You're taking this a little personally. My only familiarity with Anya prior to Furiosa was advertising for Queen's Gambit. It just seemed an odd fit. And the Theron iteration went toe to toe with max in a dirty, highly physical fight.
@@victorcates9330 well that pretty much showcase that you didn't even saw the film in the first place. Yes she went toe to toe with max because she was in her prime, in this movie she is younger and inexperience. (its a prequel for god sakes, and they didn't want to cgi the shit out of theron like mark hammil in the mandalorian)
PS: anya is an amazing actress and you should watch films like the witch, split, emma, the menu, last night on soho, and ACTUALLY watch queen gambit and not judge her based on a friggin poster.
Unless you can only dumb action films and nothing else.
Men LOVE believable, good female characters of ANY kind, including action leads / co-leads! Critical Drinker's very first video made that point to perfection.
It's true. The thing most people hate is actually when gimmicks get foisted on us, by sloppy writing and executive fiat; regardless of whether the intentions are noble or just cynical marketing, it always leave a bad taste in one's month.
CD however is more about pushing political nonsense these days, not genuine reviewing.
there has ben many great female action leads in the past but at this point after all the girl bosses I have no desire to watch anything female centered ever again
Nooo believe in something! There will be more good stories with female leads! But yeah, there have been a lot of lame ones lately lol
@@KatesRealTakes to be fair girl bosses are only part of the reason I do not watch movies any more, I will wait until all the current studios go under and people who actually understand how to make movies and want to make entertaining movies start up. The entire movie industry is dead
You shouldn't talk about female action heroes without talking about the Queen of them all Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She carried a 7 season series that had a 5 season spinoff based on an original movie. No one else comes close in complexity of character development and growth or exciting stories.
You missed one that they almost always miss. You need to have the actresses actually look the part. Male actors will usually bulk up for action roles, actresses almost never do.
I actually did mention that in this longer outro that I had, but I cut it because the outro was too long haha. But I was comparing Sarah Conner to Jessica Alba’s character in Trigger Warning. Sarah Conner actually looked fit and was somewhat tall. Jessica alba is a tiny twig, yet we’re supposed to believe in that movie that’s she out there sucker punching and head locking these men more than twice her size. So I totally agree with you! The women need to look the part as well.
Even Azula was pretty believable, we didn't see her training but they showed she has been training hard to get to the point that she's at, she is a bit heartless and selfish but that's only because of her upbringing. There are reasons to her character, she isn't just there to be a badass woman.
ALL the bad guys in Flacon and Winter Soldier had full-on super soldier serum, Bucky only ever had the knock-off one someone tried to make in the 1930's that wasn't close to being as good, so them being substantially stronger than him (but NOT stronger than John Walker, who with military training on top was able to take them out) just like Steve was stronger than him, makes sense. It was only his training and special fake-arm that let him keep it as close as it was instead of getting a hole stomped in him every time he went against them.
Plus Captain Marvel is by far the most powerful character that we have seen in the MCU going off the power-levels in the comics, and the Kree had been manipulating her to not use all of her power.
Everything else was spot on though.
Yeah, the whole gleeful killing machine + good guy thing doesn't really work for me. Strident invulnerability is also very, very boring. It's cheap.
Anyway, loved your breakdown! Also enjoyed the "Twisters" review.
:)
So true, so true. And thanks! Glad you liked it!
I am somewhat confused by this video. Firstly the fixation that an action-focused heroine can’t like her job is odd to me. While someone who wishes to do something else can be an interesting character, sure, why can’t a heroine genuinely enjoy her job? After all, male characters are often portrayed enjoying their job as being a hero. Or would you say male action-focused characters also shouldn’t be shown to love their job?
Also I find the criticism of Galadriel in the Lord of the Rings show being a competent fighter, odd. From a book context, in History of Middle Earth, Unfinished Tales, and Silmarillion, there are examples of her fighting both directly and being a lesser commander of an army, to say nothing of how she attacks Sauron’s Mirkwood fortress twice (the second time razing it with her powers) per the Hobbit and LOTR novels. Also, JRRT writes her younger state as being kinda prideful. In the films, if you prefer to use them as the sources, she disintegrates an orc and uses more magic to fight Sauron, so her being willing to fight evil and also smart enough to use a weapon when she hasn’t yet gotten to that level of magical power makes sense to me. Even Gandalf, Witch-King, Saruman, and Sauron sometimes use their bludgeons/swords to fight in the films and for that matter Gandalf and Witch-King use melee weapons in the novels.
To clear up any confusion, the distaste of violence is something that should apply to both men and women. I never said that it is acceptable for male characters to enjoy it but unacceptable for females. I think it’s unacceptable for both. Neither should not enjoy hurting and killing others.
As for Galadriel, my criticism of her was not that she is a competent fighter when she shouldn’t be. My criticism was of how much she appears to enjoy the fights she was in. For many of the fight scenes she appeared to be having fun with it. I don’t think violence and death is something anyone should enjoy.
Maybe I missed it or you haven't seen the two films
But I don't think you mentioned Ellen Ripley probably the best example of a female character in movie history
Action movies I mean lol
You didn’t miss anything, I just haven’t seen them lol
I think I understand the point you are making, but using Avatar to make the point seems a bit odd. Space aliens on another planet could have larger females and smaller males, or seven genders, or no differentiation, or... Literally any kind of pattern in how they portray the ranges of size and strength of the characters and be equally believable. Having large males and small females on Pandora was just a totally arbitrary choice, not something that was correct or incorrect.
For this video essay, I was strictly looking at stories where men are stronger than women, as that is what is realistic and what we see in the majority of stories. And the Navi were good examples of this dynamic. Obviously if someone created a story where the men aren’t stronger than the women, this video would not apply and those characters would need to be written differently.
LAAAMMEE!
😂