I've been putterin' 'round mechanical & auto-body shops my entire life (60years). Ive been taught by the very best. I started out w/my father teaching me "How-to" & "How come" (Lol !) on my 1971 Arctic-Cat "Climber" mini-bike and his 1946 Knucklehead, 1983 Harley-Davidson Electra-Glide Shovelhead, and his 1970 Toyota Fj40 LandCruiser, and his 1959 MGB & an assortment of tractors. That's what I was introduced to when I was 7 years old. And I couldn't get enough of it all ever since. My father was a very fortunate man, having the smarts that he had & the drive that he had. He was a Pilot & Mechanical-Engineer 1st & foremost. He put himself through 6-years of school here at UVM. (University of Vermont)....and then he joined the U.S. Air-Force & flew his way up to the rank of "Colonel/Commander" of the VTANG (Vermont Air-National Guard) here in South-Burlington, Vermont where he looked after a few hundred hard-working American Soldiers who were all super dedicated to serve & protect the USA. So, I had big boots to fill. I put myself through ASE Master-Tech Certification schooling for 10-years back in the day. (From the late 80's - Y2K) A Disease kept me from joining the Military & flying-fighters. So, I absorbed as much of the Mechanical side of life as I possibly could. I've learned a lot. I can actually say that I've forgotten more than what most people know about the Mechanical side to life. I've actually won a lot of 1st-Place trophy's, awards & accolades for my efforts. Ive had my own mechanical, fabrication shop, which is like St-Patricks Cathedral to me. It sustains me & my sanity. I've just recently acquired a 1984 Big-Red from a dear old friend to do a semi-restoration to clean it up nicely for him & get it running very good. Sort of a semi-resto, for a friend of mine who is 82, and just went through a dbl-bypass Open-Heart surgery last month in August 2024. And today the old -Timer is doing GREAT ! He attributes surviving his Open-heart surgery & Its lengthy recovery to always keeping physically active & being careful to not getting injured in the meantime ! And I mean ACTIVE ! Not just walking down the street....I/m talking about truding around the Big-woods here in the Green-Mountains of Vermont w/a 30lb Chainsaw in one hand & dropping trees, limbing 'em up, and then buckin'-up the logs, dragging them out to the landing, and splittin' it all into firewood length, and then stacking it all. That's being active ! So, my point here is two-fold. Although Ive got all this learning & education under my belt, I'm so very happy to see that other like-minded, honest, no BS Americans are sharing what THEY have learned here on UA-cam ! So, all in all, I'm STILL Learning ! Although I have decades worth of engine building, repair, massaging, etc experience, its nice to be able to come to a place, like a Service-Manual thats written for all of the machines & equipment we all have, use & love in our lives. But we can also come to UA-cam & find the small, more intimate info & characteristics of a machine or a piece of equipment and by doing so save a bunch of TIME at the same time ! There's one more thing Ive learned in my 60-years, and that is, if you can save yourself some time, well by God, then DO IT ! And that's why coming to UA-cam & sifting through all the bullshitters & wannabe's (Which is 75% -85% of all of UA-cams Content unfortunately) & locate the true-blue, life-long mechanics who specialize in one (Or a few) brand of machine and/or piece of equipment & pick his or her brain & WHAMO....you're way ahead of the game ! This way you SAVE A BOATLOAD of time as well ! So, I just want to THANK YOU for your help. I'm gonna get this Big-Red running top-notch & safe, and get it back to my 82 yr old friend so he can start enjoying it by riding it all over the mountain & the deep-woods here in Vermont w/his Husqvarna 455 strapped to the front, along w/his other tools, etc for the day. Thanx for the no BS info. Sincerely, Richard McGinley (RMCUSTOMS) of Essex Jct, Vermont. We're just 15 miles from the Canadian border up 'ere. Gods Country. Stop in if you're in our neck of the woods & need some help.P.S> That secondary piston-ring is called "The Clean-up" ring. Its job is self-explanatory.
I watched this hour long movie for almost 2.5 hours. I have never done this before and your video was AMAZING!!! Left me with no questions besides!!!!!! You didn’t show putting the chain guide back on, I missed it, had to re-squeeze all of my piston rings because I had to slide the jug back off. ANYWAY OTHER THAN THAT!! this video was PERFECT!! Thank you so much for posting this
hey watched your video about 50 times lol and today for the first time since I've owned my 185s its started... thanks for your help, video's on UA-cam work! so happy! thanks bud 👍
Just got a free 84 200s, person said the engine is “locked up” if you pull the cord it definitely felt like it. Pulled the plug and it was smashed. Pulled the pull cord off and you can spin the motor except past TDC. I can’t wait to get it opened up with this info. thanks for the great video!
Look in the spark plug hole with a light sounds like you have a stuck open valve. Dont force the piston. You can tap a valve from the inspection cap it may loosen up.
I have a 1982 atc 200. I've had it since I was a kid but it hasn't been running for over 20 years. I decided it's been long enough. This video should help the process. The engine is seized but it happened from sitting and only been seized the last few years. I'm going to pull it soon and see what's going on. Thanks for the video in sure I'll be watching it along my journey to get my old friend running again.
I wouldnt pull it yet. Diagnose whats wrong first. Pour some atf in the cylinder and let it sit a couple days, then use a socket on the crank bolt and try to free it up. If it frees up and spins smoothly, the chase spark and compression, timing then fuel and air.
I’ve been building engines for a long time, but I’ve been watching your videos. You are very good at what you do. Keep up the good work. I even learn new things.
Yes, complete top end rebuild is in order! Never heard that brand piston but take ur word for it 💯. I prefer Wiseco or Vertex myself. Pro-X is good as well.
That motor I just about like my 1972 CL 100. Had a lot of trouble figuring out how to put the timing chain back on and setting it. Thanks for sharing brother.
Im rebuilding my 87 atc 250sx rings has a 1/4 inch of ring gap and still ran. No cylinder wall damage nothing else beat the way Honda built these bikes
I watch a lot of you tube videos of different people,and different bikes ,and you are the best. I mean that you should be a School mechanic teacher. you did a great job
Another thing to be aware of when lapping valves, the ring left on valve after lapping, should be somewhere close to center on the face of the valve. If the ring is too far off center you should have the valve seats re-cut. As far as exact tolerances, I do not know off hand, this information should be in the shop manual for your particular engine. This is just some stuff I remember from when I rebuilt my old 125M.
These are my favorite engines to rebuild and modify. My favorite so far is one I put in a Wiseco 10.25:1 piston, 200x cam, and Pz28 carb with 200x jetting. Needed new clutches to handle the power without slipping. This bike is a blast to ride! Thanks for the great vid. Take care Donut Dan
@@mrcbuilds Thank you for the video. Other vids miss important steps and little details. Yours is spot on in every way and is a good video for first timers and old hands alike. Take care Donut Dan
Hey just watching this again as a refresher as I'm getting ready to put a new piston/rings in my 83 200E. My bolts (same area you welded) were rusted away to something I couldn't even tack weld to. I actually center punched the heads and drilled out 1 drill size at a time and as soon as the head pressure was released, they were finger tight. Maybe help down the road for any of your viewers. Side note - that's why the pull start gasket is important lol. Once the little drain is plugged those lower bolts are a rusty booger. Thanks for the videos. I can't tell you how many times I've pulled these up in the barn while I'm doing stuff to make sure I don't forget something. 👍
Understanding the methods of disassembly and reassembly with the attention to particular datum points to makes you a technician as long as you finish with proper torque and seals.... Building a watch...that makes vacuum!! Love it! Skills that can be lost to a couch...locked in a bubble. Be a Shepard not a sheep or a wolf.... Love you guys with every breath!!!
At 15:25 can that gasket be bought individually or do you have to buy a complete kit. Maybe you would have a link for it or the gasket kit you recommend. Thanks
Sorry I could not find just that gasket, here is complete kit. amzn.to/3vSkcbR. you may can call honda directly and ask them or www.partzilla.com may have it. thank you for watching
Hey there, firstly, thank you for taking the time to make and share these videos. I've been searching for years for videos on how to rebuild my bike! This is fantastic. Secondly, I have a question on some sealants you used on the crank case but did not say what it was. This is my first time attempting to fix my ex did not know. 🤦🏻♀️😅
brilliant video, just been told my 185s has no compression... topend rebuild £300 labour only so going to try it myself by following you video's! when the parts arrive in uk from the US 👍
@@mrcbuilds Between the jobs, the new septic tank, rebuilt back porch, elevated walkway to the front porch, land clearing and loading dock install, getting my sister a Honda Rancher and plow setup, a year's gotta be longer then it used to be.
@@enjoythesho1992 . That's us .up grade what we can .paint repair . This 1985 try z .or the 86 250sx in the back will speak for there self. Or the outher 18 trikes .
This is excellent. Thank you for posting. I’m a mechanical person for sure but have never done this. Is there a part 1? I just noticed the video said part 2 and I was hoping for some guidance on disassembly. I recently picked up a 1984 from some family who were done with it. I have it running now, fairly well actually but it is smoking badly and the timing chain is quite loud.
@@mrcbuilds For sure. Definitely in the works. I need to get it apart so I can take measurements because I have no history on it (if it’s ever already been bored over, etc) I want to to that before I order parts. This may sound dumb, but I scrolled through all videos previous to this one. I don’t see the part 1. Am I just overlooking it?
I was just combing through the vids aswell looking for the teardown so I dunno if maybe we're both missing it haha. I seen the video where he took the motor out too.
@@jeremycassell7627 Yea I even scrolled to the more recent videos in case it was a later repost. No dice. I can tear it down but I definitely wouldn’t mind watching someone who’s done it a bunch of time do it first lol
Great video. I have a 1985 TRX 125 that only smoking after about 20 minutes of running. I'm not sure if it's valve guide seals or rings. Are the 125's about the same procedure as the atc200's? I've done a lot of 2 strokes but this will be my first attempt at a 4 stroke. Thanks again.
Thank you for the video and the clear explanations. I am hoping to do a top end rebuild on my newly acquired "86 XL185 (engine looks preety similar to the ATC one). I am thinking of pre-ordering gaskets and a seal kit before i start, but i have not come across a gasket for the rocker cover. Is there a gasket on the rocker cover? (I did not see its underside on the video). Thank you.
Having a hard time impacting that flywheel off with the axle. Did you impact the axle with the threads backed off? Or bottomed out? Do they usually just pop right off for ya no problem?
Where'd you get that lil tool to hone the cylinder I just got a 84 big red 200 and I'm going to be rebuilding it from the ground up the guy said it was locked up but I got it freed up
I am about to do the exact same thing to my 1982 atc 200 so this is VERY helpful! One question, what size honing tool are you using? there are a variety of sizes. Thanks!
Super informative. Im trying to rebuild a 110 thats smoking real bad. Having trouble sourcing new STD piston rings. Do you have any resources? like a reputable website or link? Thanks a ton.
Thanks for the awesome walkthrough. Im rebuilding the top end on a 200m and this is super helpful. I am just wondering since you mentioned that they are a culprit for smoking, do you replace the valve stem seals everytime? Thanks
Yes, I replace the valve stem seals and lap the valves everytime I do a top end. It dosent take that long and it's good insurance for good compression and not smoking.
Hey I got it linned out the valves were to tight , let me ask ya something I don’t mean to be aggravating, but is numara pistons and rings any count? Or have you ever used them ? Thank you so much for making these videos
I'm glad I could help. I have used those piston in a couple projects. I have never had any problems. Wiesco is probably the best aftermarket, but I would use the numara again. Thanks for watching and subscribing to the channel.
I’m building mine from a barn find and the whole left side cover and quite a few internals are missing I’m kinda regretting purchasing it but hopefully I’ll be able to get it going
Hi Bread, I really try to stay away from basket cases. I try to buy complete non running machines instead. It can be tedious and costly buying 1 piece at a time. I find its a lot cheaper that way, even if its a little most cost upfront. thanks for watching.
Finally someone who a is running the hone from the bottom of the bore I always cringe when I see people start at the top. I figure the rings dont touch that part of the bore so if it's gonna have a few strait scores it better be there.
Thanks for watching buildurtruckurway, your the first to notice that detail. I felt the same way. I also cringe when people think a good honing is the same as an overbore.
@@mrcbuilds no problem at all. I always come back to these videos when I'm double checking my work. You by far have the most detailed videos about the work and or maintenance that go into these bikes. Thanks you for the time you put in.
I’ve got I believe is a 200 big red It’s chain driven the front sprocket on the motor snapped off I need to change that sprocket out the shaft but I’m having trouble with the magneto fly wheel and It’s not easy finding a video that we’ll help
The front axle is the same thread and pitch as the flywheel, use it to extract the flywheel, the sprocket can be found at www.partzilla.com. in this video series, I show how to use the front axle as a flywheel puller. Thanks for watching and subscribing.
A new chain will require youn to use a small screw driver under the cam sprocket to slide it up onto the shaft, then you can turn it to align your marks. Ounce in place it will not be so tight.
@@landacottonmetaldetecting3826 I am hosting a Live video with chat tonight at 9pm EST I will be showing everyone How I set the timing on these engines. hope to see you there.
Thanks for the video. Im rebuilding and i am at the piston ring part. I have TP rings and both of the top rings are marked T 25 one is a lighter color and the other is a darker color ring. Also the darker ring seems to have a wider gap. Is this normal?
Each manufacturer has its own way of doing things, the darker ring is generally the lower of the two. The writing side faces up. Please look up your specific piston and ring instructions.
Question?? How much can say a 360 grit hone take out of cylinder, u think i can reach first stage bore, so i dont have to pay a machine shop to do it for me, it fits 65-67mm bore, ggz-👽👍
Is it possible that part 1 is on a different privacy setting than the other videos? When I go to the top end rebuild series, it says there are 8 videos. However only 7 show and at the top it says “1 unavailable video is hidden.” I’m guessing that is the engine tear down video.
Love your videos but I am not a professional but I would not put that grease on those engine parts as it will easily wipe off during and after assembly but would use assembly lube or at least oil, just my opinion, Thanks
Hi dave, thanks, i appreciate your opinion and will consider it. Greese has been used forever repacking hydraulic rams, and this us where i have picked up the habit.
Hi Robert, yes, I use grey rtv sealant for that area and black for the stator cover and pull rope assembly. That may have gotten skipped in editing. Thanks for watching.
Hey I just picked up a 1985 Big Red 250ES it runs great and doesn't smoke it does however need a valve adjustment which seems pretty basic. But it leaking oil from what appears to be the rock arm pins. Have you ever resealed one of these ? If so do you have a video of it or one similar? Enjoyed the video Pal !
I also have a 250es big red in which valves are needing adjustment. Great job on this video. Just began rebuilding top end on my 1982 Honda atc185s. This video will definitely help!! Very methodical presentation.
Hey bud I pulled my rocker box and pulled the head. The intake valve is burnt. I usually take this kinda stuff to a machine shop. But after watching your videos I'm gonna tackle it myself. Does the burnt valve need to be replaced or will lapping in do the trick .
Mabey you could share your expertice? i have a 86 250sx atc and the timing chain has a little slap when its cold, when warm it almost goes away. ive turned the tensoner and it quiets it but only last a cupple of miniutes. aftermarket tensioner,is that a option or a timing chain replacement? ive never been inside the motor, so is that hard to do, or at that point is it a compleate rebuild? thanks
I would lean the bike up on the right side with a Jack stand under the left side axle, pull the side cover and inspect the chain tensioner, find out why it's not holding an adjustment. You may need a new tensioner or chain, they stretch beyond what the tensioner can adjust. I always start with the easiest, cheapest things to check, and work my way to more expensive parts, when I'm not sure what the problem is. But starts with inspecting the tensioner, and go from there. If you find the tension is ok, but at its limit, you will need a new chain, you can change the chain in frame, as long as you don't try to remove the cylinder. If it was mine, I would take the engine out, do a rering topend new valve seals and chain all at one time.
Hi from UK.Thanks for putting the time and effort into creating these videos they help greatly. I've just completed a top end rebuild of my 200ES....followed the above video ....and checked against an original Honda workshop manual...everything checked out spot on. On testing the engine it will fire and attempt to run for a few seconds...then stops abruptly at which point a strong hissing can be heard coming from the tail pipe. Sparks good..cam timing lines up as described...I'm baffled.....could anything else be wrong in the valve train? Any thoughts appreciated from any one he cares to reply. Thanks Philip
He phillip, go back to the basics. Check compression. This will tell you about the valves, valve timing and the state of the ring pack on the piston. Did you hone the cylinder? New piston? What ring pack or size did you use? Std or an over bore. What do you mean stops abruptly? Dies like you unplugged the cdi? Coughs and sputter like you run out of gas? Or is there something interfering like stoping with a clunk? Double check your ring pack package, what size are they? Also after the compression check make sure your in time, that you didnt get the cam a tooth off when you installed the timing chain. Let me know what you find.
Hi....once again thank you for your thoughts on my 200es problems . Rebore was to suite a 65.5mm Namura Piston New valves with seats re cut . Compression test gives 135psi. Pressure applied by compressed Air through plug hole adapter gives no valve leakage at all. When it does try and run it needs full choke fires for about 10 cycles then stalls back ....as this is happening there seems to be an excessive amount of fuel blow back through the carb...I understand that air/ fuel actually pulses through the carb....but this is extreme....eventually it stops with almost a back fire.. Checked the timing again last night...tried it a tooth either side of the '0' but no joy. Tried a Chinese cdi unit which wouldn't let it crank until I disconnected the grey wire from the relay up at the back of chassis.....this cdi gave no firing at all.!!! Could the original cdi be delivering the spark incorrectly??? If I hold the starter in gear it helps it fire alternatly..but there's a lot of noise coming out through the carb....not the exhaust......sort of 'put..putting '!! I'm completely stumped...thing is I'm not a novice!!! Decades of tinkering with stuff on the farm having bought my first ATC in 1981.Current workshop project is a 1947 MG....including rebuilding an XPAG race spec engine and Supercharger....that runs fine !!!...which I actually bought in the US and shipped it home to the UK.. Stator shows 235 ohms. Also tried a new Chinese carb...no different. Once again thanks for being so generous with your time... form all of us out here. Best regards Philip
@@pr9854 morning Philip, even us seasoned mechanics get stumped. It sound like you did all your test correctly. I had a bike come in another mechanic worked on and gave up. It seemed to blow fuel out the carb and felt like it was sucking in the exhaust. It took me awhile to figure it out. The cam was 180 degrees out of phase, but the cam gear was on correct. So the dots lined up, but the cam was wrong. So to check this, pull the rotor and cam gear when the engine is at TDC. So the dots would be aligned. At the point the cam should be loose and have no pressure from the valve train and the lobes should be in the down position. If your cam lobes are pointing up and there is pressure on the cam its 180 degrees out of phase, spin the cam 180 and the bolt hole will again line up, bolt on the cam gear with dots aligned and it should fire up and run. Because your test check out, I think this is the problem, it explains the swishing sound, the fuel blowing out the carb. Let me know what you find out. Dont get frustrated, it's just a puzzle and you have a piece in the wrong way. You will find it.
Hi again... Well I've double checked the cam orientation and it is correct...had it been 180° out the 'pip' for the rotor drive would have been '5 oclock' not 11.....on that point....I would say mine is more like10 oclock...approx 292.5° of rotation??? As it happens I put a scribe mark on the top sprocket and across onto the cam shaft end before dismantling....and these are lined up again now !! Only thing I am wondering is if the flywheel is slightly off on the key....but I seem to think I checked that TDC corresponded with actual Piston position before putting the head on. Tappet clearances are as stated in service book....which to me seemed very tight.....it was before harvest when I built it up....and when it wouldn't run I couldn't spare the time to investigate...so it's been in the workshop ever since!! Running out of ideas.... Anybody want a 200ES cheap...driving me nuts!! Thanks Philip
@@pr9854 that's very odd. Try this, set the flywheel at TDC have the exhaust valve cover off, place your left hand on the exhaust valve, now with your right hand rotate the crank counterclockwise the exhaust valve should move downwards about the time the flywheel reaches 11oclock. If the valve dosent move downwards or opens then it's out of time. It's really hard to troubleshoot over the net. But I am happy to help.
shindy makes a good piston and rings, you can find kits on ebay with gaskets, while your there replace the timing chain and guides. Ebay - www.ebay.com/itm/235069010420?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KwvQL2xKQJC&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=jpfTOkQ6TV-&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY you can get any athena gasket set and D.I.D. timing chain
Is there a way to put the manual decompression on cable driven 200s? Or convert mine? I was concerned about it not releasing properly and possibly damage the cam if it doesn’t? Thanks for the vids
You can take the manual lever off of a 200e or one of the other 200cc bike that do not use the cable system. I have heard of using a chole cable to the handle bars. Pull it and when it fires up it will be drawn back in. I have read of making the 350x system the same way.
Im doing a top end and i ordered a high caliber gasket set and it came with a gold seal type ring. where does that go i see you have one also at minute 46:00 in this video?
Hey I just got a 1985 Honda ATC 200S. I got it off my buddy and he got it off of someone who was using it for parts. The previous owners (before my buddy) pulled the spark plug and left it out in the weather. So it was froze up. In the process of rebuilding the head but I've run into some trouble.... The intake valve doesn't close completely. Like it's almost closed but it's not completely there What could cause this? I pulled the valve out and cleaned the seat and cleaned the valve it's self and still no luck
@@mrcbuilds your very welcome, I built a 200 engine and put a new timing chain in it ,the one I took out was wore completely out, now that I put the new one in, it has a noise , sounds like it’s coming from the top end, the guides were wore kinda bad,I know I ask lot of questions, but I know your Good at these engines ,can wore guide make a the engine make a noise? Thanks for your info, and love the videos, any info would be appreciated.
@@dannysheppard2882 , Hey, did you adjust the chain tensioner? its the 14mm bolt with the 10mm bolt on top, located just behind the head. with the engine running loosen the 14mm bolt, the noise should stop, then tighten it back up, its pretty much self adjusting. D-ray has a great video on how to do it manually with an allen wrench, if the engine is not running.
@@mrcbuilds what i did is. When I put the new chain on. I loosen the timing adjustment bolt and took a thin screw driver and loosen the tensioner loose as it go so I could get it on the top cam.when I got it timed and on the cam. I loosen the adjustment nut back up and let go against the chain and tighten it back up. That's what my manul said. Unless I missed something.
@@dannysheppard2882 that sounds right. Have you adjusted the valves? Checked the oil level? That about covers a noisy topend. Describe the noise you hear.
hiya i have a 1981 185s and trying to find a new piston everyone is saying its a 66mm piston but the 1 that came out is 62ish... any ideas? honda xl 185s use the 62mm piston would it work?
Hey Darren try this, www.ebay.com/itm/Piston-63mm-Bore-Dome-Rings-Wrist-Pin-Kit-Gaskets-Honda-XL185-13011-427-00/181341371220?epid=27007166159. Thanks for watching.
With all the products you have linked do you have a trusted source for 185 parts? I'm thinking about just finding a good OEM 200 piston and rings and having one of my 185 cylinders bored to match, I've been told it's a pull cord killer making something like 12-1 compression with the stock 185 top end. I don't mind keeping 20ft of rope in my box to replace it if it breaks I'm just wondering if you have done this? My buddy did and sold it a week later so I never got to really trail test the results so to speak.
The products in my descriptions, are products I use and trust. I have a 200x topend on a 200e bottom end engine, It is definitely harder to pull and thin weak rope will not last but that engine does not have a decompression system like your 185s does. If you use either the cable activated system or use it manually I think you will be ok with at least a 10 to 1 motor and heavy duty pull rope. I have no experience with a 12 to 1 motor, so I cant really say, other than 10 to 1 is noticeably harder to pull
@@mrcbuilds thanks for the quick reply. So then the 200x top end will work on a 185 case aswell. I've been told the 185 cam is an upgrade for the 200cc top ends aswell I'm sure the 200x has the best stock cam. I'm just wondering if the cam would be a worthwhile throw in for my 200m engine? I've got a 185s engine dropped into my bike for now As the 200m engine was missing the top end when I got the bike and I needed a rider lol. I'm just trying to get both done right and with a little more umph So I can have both bike back.
Could the valve lifter possibly be making my 3 wheeler smoke. It needs a crankcase seal and clutch seal and valve lifter seal and possibly a crankcase gasket. Will somebody please let me know?
@@mrcbuilds well it just got running about 6 months ago it was behind the barn for 2 years and we put a new carburator on it and it fired right up and it has been running great but all of a sudden everything has just started leaking and I have been revving it up quite a bit amd the valve lifter seal was already leaking before I started revving it up but now it has been smoking crazy so I wonder if there was carbon build up and since I have been revving it up I wonder if the piston knocked some carbon loose and now carbon is burning off but I know its the valve lifter on why its smoking and I just want it to start running like its new it still looks brand new but its never got rode much at all and my dad has owned it for like 20 years and it's 37 years old I just want it to run like new again.
Help me pls ! I’m so confused my atc has fuel spark timing is correct valves are adjusted perfect carb is clean as a whistle but she no wanna start I can get it to fire over and run like once a day and she runs great for a few seconds then spitters and sputters out I’m so lost at this point as to where to look next possibly a new carb? Or should I pay someone to try and rebuild the original
If it runs at all then the mechanical side should be fine. (timing, compression) since you say it runs good then peters out, 2 things come to mind a bad coil when it gets hot will stop working, or you are sucking rust or trash in the carb. order a new coil and re-clean your carb, run a new fuel filer and make sure there's no trash or rust in the fuel system. Don't give up your almost there.
Could you do a video on or do you have a video on how to fix decompression thingy it’s broken/stuck cable is missing but even when we hold the lever in position it don’t do nothin is this a complicated fix? Do I even need to fix it ?
So I have a question just got me a 1985 200s and turning over engine it gets stuck on top fire position and you can free it past that point with a bit of force but then next cycle it gets jammed agin so what is the most probably problem happening? I don’t hear any noise when I spin it but it definitely locks up on top of compression. I would greatly appreciate any information you could advise me with, hopefully it’s something simple?
Sound like the piston is hitting something, more than likely you dropped a valve or valve seat came loose. You need to pull the engine and take the head off, that will tell you everything. Sorry for the bad news. I would replace the whole top end from a parts motor or just swap in any of the following engines they will bolt right in:185s, 200 or a 200s.
@@mrcbuilds I had one heck of a startled today decided to go get some starting fluid and I sprayed it through the carburetor and gave it a pull, well I am sure I have ⚡️ because a ball of flames shot out the intake area under seat, scared me. After that I am now hearing a rattle sound faint when I pull engine over it is no longer jamming up however I am leaning towards the piston is broken? Is that plausible? I’m going to pull engine out and I will keep you posted because I like meeting people I can call friends in the same love of Honda ATCs, I own only 2 but don’t plan on stopping, let me ask you this question is it just easier to tip 3 wheeler on its ass end to pull this engine?
@@InTheFleshInc take the plug out and slow pull the rope until the piston comes to the top of is stroke, get a good flashlight and you can see the top of the piston, if you have a bore scope it would be better. You may see part of a valve or ring bouncing around on top of the piston.
Hi dave, yep that one was pretty loud, learn a lot about editing since then, that video is 2 years old. Thanks for watching. U fortunately once its uploaded i cant change it
Sorry I am in Florida, I would be happy to answer any questions I can, look me up on Facebook or post the Q. here. thanks for watching, and subscribing
The top end is the same, the only difference is the 200e has a sub-transmission where the 200m does not. the piston and rings are the same. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching, and please subscribe.
there is a rubber plug that protects the wires and seals off that section of the case, www.partzilla.com use to sell it. it may be discontinued, try ebay for a used one, and you can use some RVT or silicone and fill the area let it cure over night before running it again. Not necessarily means the crank seal is bad, that area does have oil in it.
@@rileyvinson5047 - Tilt the machine up on its right side, use a jack stand under the rear axle. (keep as much of the oil in)Remove the pull rope assembly, remove the flywheel cover, disconnect the stator wires, slide the old rubber plug/gasket off and replace with a new one. clean the mating surfaces, new gasket or RVT on the flywheel cover and again on the pull rope assembly
@@rileyvinson5047 If you mean remove the engine no, start this video at time stamp 28:25, you will need to remove the flywheel cover, crank bolt and pull rope cover.
I’ve fought for 3 hours today trying to get the cylinder back in by new rings they are so difficult and this cylinder is tampered which makes me furious that I can’t get a simple this done. I’m going to do grease next , I tried oil I tried lube nothing.
Yes grease helps, if you cant squeeze the rings a large band clamp or radiator hose clamp loosely holding the rings in place works also once the rings go into the cylinder you can take the clamp apart and slide it out from under the piston and head. Thanks for watching.
They say 200son the rings but I tried just to see the ring alone in cylinder and they have a overlap by just a few mm so I’m thinking now I got the wrong rings from the supplier what Is the standard size? 65.47 mm standard
I'm afraid not Jeep250es, Every one I have seen water gets inside and rust out the gas tube, the the bushings wear out and rust solid. Just a poor design. the 200m is the best option for replacement.
@@mrcbuildsThank you for the atc education! Spent my childhood on a 185s ripping with my dad on his 250es. I Sold the 185s to buy a 200es. (I Needed electric start and Reverse) Those little 4 strokes were the sound track of my childhood.
Yessir I gotcha I'm doing a 200es top end right now and noticed I have an oring around one of the jug studs but you didn't have one around one of yours from what I could see. I was wondering if that's a necessary thing or is it a Es specific oring since yours was an M model an may not need it maybe? Just wondering thanks.
I've been putterin' 'round mechanical & auto-body shops my entire life (60years). Ive been taught by the very best. I started out w/my father teaching me "How-to" & "How come" (Lol !) on my 1971 Arctic-Cat "Climber" mini-bike and his 1946 Knucklehead, 1983 Harley-Davidson Electra-Glide Shovelhead, and his 1970 Toyota Fj40 LandCruiser, and his 1959 MGB & an assortment of tractors. That's what I was introduced to when I was 7 years old. And I couldn't get enough of it all ever since. My father was a very fortunate man, having the smarts that he had & the drive that he had. He was a Pilot & Mechanical-Engineer 1st & foremost. He put himself through 6-years of school here at UVM. (University of Vermont)....and then he joined the U.S. Air-Force & flew his way up to the rank of "Colonel/Commander" of the VTANG (Vermont Air-National Guard) here in South-Burlington, Vermont where he looked after a few hundred hard-working American Soldiers who were all super dedicated to serve & protect the USA. So, I had big boots to fill. I put myself through ASE Master-Tech Certification schooling for 10-years back in the day. (From the late 80's - Y2K) A Disease kept me from joining the Military & flying-fighters. So, I absorbed as much of the Mechanical side of life as I possibly could. I've learned a lot. I can actually say that I've forgotten more than what most people know about the Mechanical side to life. I've actually won a lot of 1st-Place trophy's, awards & accolades for my efforts. Ive had my own mechanical, fabrication shop, which is like St-Patricks Cathedral to me. It sustains me & my sanity. I've just recently acquired a 1984 Big-Red from a dear old friend to do a semi-restoration to clean it up nicely for him & get it running very good. Sort of a semi-resto, for a friend of mine who is 82, and just went through a dbl-bypass Open-Heart surgery last month in August 2024. And today the old -Timer is doing GREAT ! He attributes surviving his Open-heart surgery & Its lengthy recovery to always keeping physically active & being careful to not getting injured in the meantime ! And I mean ACTIVE ! Not just walking down the street....I/m talking about truding around the Big-woods here in the Green-Mountains of Vermont w/a 30lb Chainsaw in one hand & dropping trees, limbing 'em up, and then buckin'-up the logs, dragging them out to the landing, and splittin' it all into firewood length, and then stacking it all. That's being active ! So, my point here is two-fold. Although Ive got all this learning & education under my belt, I'm so very happy to see that other like-minded, honest, no BS Americans are sharing what THEY have learned here on UA-cam ! So, all in all, I'm STILL Learning ! Although I have decades worth of engine building, repair, massaging, etc experience, its nice to be able to come to a place, like a Service-Manual thats written for all of the machines & equipment we all have, use & love in our lives. But we can also come to UA-cam & find the small, more intimate info & characteristics of a machine or a piece of equipment and by doing so save a bunch of TIME at the same time ! There's one more thing Ive learned in my 60-years, and that is, if you can save yourself some time, well by God, then DO IT ! And that's why coming to UA-cam & sifting through all the bullshitters & wannabe's (Which is 75% -85% of all of UA-cams Content unfortunately) & locate the true-blue, life-long mechanics who specialize in one (Or a few) brand of machine and/or piece of equipment & pick his or her brain & WHAMO....you're way ahead of the game ! This way you SAVE A BOATLOAD of time as well ! So, I just want to THANK YOU for your help. I'm gonna get this Big-Red running top-notch & safe, and get it back to my 82 yr old friend so he can start enjoying it by riding it all over the mountain & the deep-woods here in Vermont w/his Husqvarna 455 strapped to the front, along w/his other tools, etc for the day. Thanx for the no BS info. Sincerely, Richard McGinley (RMCUSTOMS) of Essex Jct, Vermont. We're just 15 miles from the Canadian border up 'ere. Gods Country. Stop in if you're in our neck of the woods & need some help.P.S> That secondary piston-ring is called "The Clean-up" ring. Its job is self-explanatory.
Awesome video would love same exact video but for a 1994 200es
I watched this hour long movie for almost 2.5 hours. I have never done this before and your video was AMAZING!!! Left me with no questions besides!!!!!! You didn’t show putting the chain guide back on, I missed it, had to re-squeeze all of my piston rings because I had to slide the jug back off. ANYWAY OTHER THAN THAT!! this video was PERFECT!! Thank you so much for posting this
Glad you enjoyed it! and that it was helpful. thanks for watching, please like share and subscribe if you haven't.
hey watched your video about 50 times lol and today for the first time since I've owned my 185s its started... thanks for your help, video's on UA-cam work! so happy! thanks bud 👍
I'm glad I could be a part of saving another one. Thank you for watching and supporting the channel.
Keep it up there r still a lot of us old guys saveing these old rides thanks
You bet, thanks for watching!
Just got a free 84 200s, person said the engine is “locked up” if you pull the cord it definitely felt like it. Pulled the plug and it was smashed. Pulled the pull cord off and you can spin the motor except past TDC. I can’t wait to get it opened up with this info. thanks for the great video!
Look in the spark plug hole with a light sounds like you have a stuck open valve. Dont force the piston. You can tap a valve from the inspection cap it may loosen up.
@@mrcbuilds thank you!!
I have a 1982 atc 200. I've had it since I was a kid but it hasn't been running for over 20 years. I decided it's been long enough. This video should help the process. The engine is seized but it happened from sitting and only been seized the last few years. I'm going to pull it soon and see what's going on. Thanks for the video in sure I'll be watching it along my journey to get my old friend running again.
I wouldnt pull it yet. Diagnose whats wrong first.
Pour some atf in the cylinder and let it sit a couple days, then use a socket on the crank bolt and try to free it up. If it frees up and spins smoothly, the chase spark and compression, timing then fuel and air.
I’ve been building engines for a long time, but I’ve been watching your videos. You are very good at what you do. Keep up the good work. I even learn new things.
I get lucky every now and then. Thanks for the kind words.
This is an Awesome video that will help tons of people from making mistakes and get their machine back out on the trail.
Thank you, and I appreciate you watching, I hope it helps
Yes, complete top end rebuild is in order! Never heard that brand piston but take ur word for it 💯. I prefer Wiseco or Vertex myself. Pro-X is good as well.
Good choice! Both of those are good brands, Wiseco is probably the best aftermarket piston on the market. Thank for watching.
Anyone know how to install the tensioner
That motor I just about like my 1972 CL 100. Had a lot of trouble figuring out how to put the timing chain back on and setting it. Thanks for sharing brother.
Thanks for watching I'm glad it helped
Im rebuilding my 87 atc 250sx rings has a 1/4 inch of ring gap and still ran. No cylinder wall damage nothing else beat the way Honda built these bikes
Hi Nathan, yes sir, thats why they hold there value
I watch a lot of you tube videos of different people,and different bikes ,and you are the best. I mean that you should be a School mechanic teacher. you did a great job
Thank you very much for the kind words Lonnie, I am glad the video helped you out.
Another thing to be aware of when lapping valves, the ring left on valve after lapping, should be somewhere close to center on the face of the valve. If the ring is too far off center you should have the valve seats re-cut.
As far as exact tolerances, I do not know off hand, this information should be in the shop manual for your particular engine.
This is just some stuff I remember from when I rebuilt my old 125M.
Good information, agreed the shinny ring get farther towards the edge as the valve and seat wear. Thanks for watching!
These are my favorite engines to rebuild and modify. My favorite so far is one I put in a Wiseco 10.25:1 piston, 200x cam, and Pz28 carb with 200x jetting. Needed new clutches to handle the power without slipping. This bike is a blast to ride!
Thanks for the great vid.
Take care
Donut Dan
I like them too, they just make sense to me. Thanks for sharing, sounds like a solid setup, that will last a long time
@@mrcbuilds Thank you for the video. Other vids miss important steps and little details. Yours is spot on in every way and is a good video for first timers and old hands alike.
Take care
Donut Dan
Hey just watching this again as a refresher as I'm getting ready to put a new piston/rings in my 83 200E. My bolts (same area you welded) were rusted away to something I couldn't even tack weld to. I actually center punched the heads and drilled out 1 drill size at a time and as soon as the head pressure was released, they were finger tight. Maybe help down the road for any of your viewers. Side note - that's why the pull start gasket is important lol. Once the little drain is plugged those lower bolts are a rusty booger. Thanks for the videos. I can't tell you how many times I've pulled these up in the barn while I'm doing stuff to make sure I don't forget something. 👍
Thanks for watching andy, and for the tip, we can all use a refresher.
Understanding the methods of disassembly and reassembly with the attention to particular datum points to makes you a technician as long as you finish with proper torque and seals....
Building a watch...that makes vacuum!!
Love it! Skills that can be lost to a couch...locked in a bubble.
Be a Shepard not a sheep or a wolf....
Love you guys with every breath!!!
Thank you Mr. Jones. This is how i learn, and how i explain things. Im happy to help
Best videos! I've got a 1984 atc200s thats smoking horribly and these videos gives me the confidence I need to get wrenching. Thanks
Thanks for watching, I am glad I could help.
At 15:25 can that gasket be bought individually or do you have to buy a complete kit. Maybe you would have a link for it or the gasket kit you recommend. Thanks
Sorry I could not find just that gasket, here is complete kit. amzn.to/3vSkcbR. you may can call honda directly and ask them or www.partzilla.com may have it. thank you for watching
Your explanation of what it is and what it does makes it very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos, VERY informative.
I am glad it helped, making funny engine noises just comes natural. lol. Thank you for watching
Hey there, firstly, thank you for taking the time to make and share these videos. I've been searching for years for videos on how to rebuild my bike! This is fantastic. Secondly, I have a question on some sealants you used on the crank case but did not say what it was. This is my first time attempting to fix my ex did not know. 🤦🏻♀️😅
Hondabond is great sealant. You can find it on amazon, there is a link for it in the description below.
I have to replace the shifter seal on my xr 80 thanks for sharing brother.
I got the engine out and it’s down to the frame… this is new wrenching territory!
Scary and fun at the same time.
Thanks for the info.. I have to start on my 82 bigred before spring shes starting to smoke.
I am glad you found it useful, let me know how it turns out.
Wow I learned so much!! I have a 200s engine that smokes really bad. You have given me the courage to go in!! Thank you!! :)
I'm glad you liked it and found it useful. Follow the steps on keeping it in time, and you will be fine.
brilliant video, just been told my 185s has no compression... topend rebuild £300 labour only so going to try it myself by following you video's! when the parts arrive in uk from the US 👍
Glad it helped, thanks for watching! I really appreciate it.
Bonjour Monsieur,
Merci beaucoup pour cette vidéo 🙂
J'ai appris beaucoup de choses sur mon ATC HONDA.
Je vous remercie beaucoup 🙏
Tommy
Entered the way back machine for the second time today, thanks.
Lol, that was only last year! Wayback.
@@mrcbuilds Between the jobs, the new septic tank, rebuilt back porch, elevated walkway to the front porch, land clearing and loading dock install, getting my sister a Honda Rancher and plow setup, a year's gotta be longer then it used to be.
Like to see someone else collecting trikes . Good stuff
I like to see people that collect trikes also repair them and make them better than they were not just hoard them
@@enjoythesho1992 . That's us .up grade what we can .paint repair . This 1985 try z .or the 86 250sx in the back will speak for there self. Or the outher 18 trikes .
Very thorough vids. Do you have a source / part number or dimensions of the valve seals?
They come in a complete gasket top end kit.
Thanks for this video, it’s really going to be helpful for me, About to take down a 200s
You got this! thanks for watching
This is excellent. Thank you for posting. I’m a mechanical person for sure but have never done this. Is there a part 1? I just noticed the video said part 2 and I was hoping for some guidance on disassembly. I recently picked up a 1984 from some family who were done with it. I have it running now, fairly well actually but it is smoking badly and the timing chain is quite loud.
I recommend doing that topend and chain before the chain breaks and causes a lot more expense. Pt1 is removal and tear down.
@@mrcbuilds For sure. Definitely in the works. I need to get it apart so I can take measurements because I have no history on it (if it’s ever already been bored over, etc) I want to to that before I order parts. This may sound dumb, but I scrolled through all videos previous to this one. I don’t see the part 1. Am I just overlooking it?
I was just combing through the vids aswell looking for the teardown so I dunno if maybe we're both missing it haha.
I seen the video where he took the motor out too.
@@jeremycassell7627 Yea I even scrolled to the more recent videos in case it was a later repost. No dice. I can tear it down but I definitely wouldn’t mind watching someone who’s done it a bunch of time do it first lol
Nice work man! Great info and video. Fellow trike collector from Nova Scotia Canada
Hi Kevin thanks, I appreciate it.
I’m so proud of you for you doing this. Would love to have the ability to do this. Keep up the great work
Thank you for the encouragement, good friends are hard to find. Thanks
Great video. I have a 1985 TRX 125 that only smoking after about 20 minutes of running. I'm not sure if it's valve guide seals or rings. Are the 125's about the same procedure as the atc200's? I've done a lot of 2 strokes but this will be my first attempt at a 4 stroke. Thanks again.
Yes, you will find many similarities between the two engines, go slow, take lot of pictures and use a manual. You will be fine.
Amazing video! Just what I needed! please continue with your work!
Thank you for the video and the clear explanations. I am hoping to do a top end rebuild on my newly acquired "86 XL185 (engine looks preety similar to the ATC one). I am thinking of pre-ordering gaskets and a seal kit before i start, but i have not come across a gasket for the rocker cover. Is there a gasket on the rocker cover? (I did not see its underside on the video). Thank you.
Take your time, refer to the manual and you will be fine. Good luck.
I just blew up my trike hopefully this video helps. Never taken apart a motor but now I have an idea thanks buddy
You can do it, download the free manual and take your time.
Where did you get your kit? Standard size is 65mm I believe lots of aftermarket pistons just don’t know which one to order
And I have the 84 200es arc not sure if big red makes a difference in size or not
@@upanotch6091 i picked that kit up on ebay. Also check out amazon they sell piston kits
That helps a lot on the valves. Thanks for sharing
Once you see it done it's not that hard.
great video man!!! thanks for taking the time to make it! we appreciate you!
I'm happy to help, please share my videos on your social platforms. That helps me out.
Having a hard time impacting that flywheel off with the axle. Did you impact the axle with the threads backed off? Or bottomed out? Do they usually just pop right off for ya no problem?
I hand started it then used an impact.
Cool video. Looks like you put chrome upper ring in the middle?
Where'd you get that lil tool to hone the cylinder I just got a 84 big red 200 and I'm going to be rebuilding it from the ground up the guy said it was locked up but I got it freed up
Amazon, look in the description below for a link
I am about to do the exact same thing to my 1982 atc 200 so this is VERY helpful! One question, what size honing tool are you using? there are a variety of sizes. Thanks!
amzn.to/3RTbc1v
Ordered! I’m having difficulty determining the bore… 65mm or 63.5mm … the pistons on line say standard is 65mm.
Awesome! Thanks 😊 for your time...bless your heart ❤️
Super informative. Im trying to rebuild a 110 thats smoking real bad. Having trouble sourcing new STD piston rings. Do you have any resources? like a reputable website or link?
Thanks a ton.
Rocky mountian atv is a good source or ebay
Thank you you’re awesome you taught me a few tricks
Thank you, I'm just passing on what others have shared with me. Thanks for watching and subscribing
Thanks for the awesome walkthrough. Im rebuilding the top end on a 200m and this is super helpful.
I am just wondering since you mentioned that they are a culprit for smoking, do you replace the valve stem seals everytime? Thanks
Yes, I replace the valve stem seals and lap the valves everytime I do a top end. It dosent take that long and it's good insurance for good compression and not smoking.
@@mrcbuilds thanks, I’ll be sure to pick up some seals!
Hello mrcbuilds. Where can I find PART ONE of this very informative video ? Thank you for all your EXCELLENT content !
Go to my home page. Click on the videos tab and scroll down.
Look for how to remove a 3 wheel engine, and the short course rebuild top end videos
@@mrcbuilds Thank you very much Sir !
Hey I got it linned out the valves were to tight , let me ask ya something I don’t mean to be aggravating, but is numara pistons and rings any count? Or have you ever used them ? Thank you so much for making these videos
I'm glad I could help. I have used those piston in a couple projects. I have never had any problems. Wiesco is probably the best aftermarket, but I would use the numara again. Thanks for watching and subscribing to the channel.
Am i the only one thats wondering what happened to your shirt lol. Glad you make this videos
Lol happy to help
I’m building mine from a barn find and the whole left side cover and quite a few internals are missing I’m kinda regretting purchasing it but hopefully I’ll be able to get it going
Hi Bread, I really try to stay away from basket cases. I try to buy complete non running machines instead. It can be tedious and costly buying 1 piece at a time. I find its a lot cheaper that way, even if its a little most cost upfront. thanks for watching.
@@mrcbuilds I’m thinking i can sell the racks on eBay then get enough cash to get the parts i need
@@Bread45 that's a good way to off-set the cost, sell off what you don't need or have extra's of.
@@mrcbuilds yes sir i think so far all i need is some sprockets for the starter the recoil and left side cover so that shouldn’t be too bad
@@mrcbuilds where do you get your parts from?
what did you use for the hone tool no link?
amzn.to/3MMCTUS. thanks for watching
Finally someone who a is running the hone from the bottom of the bore I always cringe when I see people start at the top. I figure the rings dont touch that part of the bore so if it's gonna have a few strait scores it better be there.
Thanks for watching buildurtruckurway, your the first to notice that detail. I felt the same way. I also cringe when people think a good honing is the same as an overbore.
@@mrcbuilds no problem at all. I always come back to these videos when I'm double checking my work. You by far have the most detailed videos about the work and or maintenance that go into these bikes. Thanks you for the time you put in.
I’ve got I believe is a 200 big red It’s chain driven the front sprocket on the motor snapped off I need to change that sprocket out the shaft but I’m having trouble with the magneto fly wheel and It’s not easy finding a video that we’ll help
The front axle is the same thread and pitch as the flywheel, use it to extract the flywheel, the sprocket can be found at www.partzilla.com. in this video series, I show how to use the front axle as a flywheel puller. Thanks for watching and subscribing.
Great video, probably a dumb question, how do I loosen the timing belt so I can get the timing sprocke lined back up. Mine is too tight.
A new chain will require youn to use a small screw driver under the cam sprocket to slide it up onto the shaft, then you can turn it to align your marks. Ounce in place it will not be so tight.
Not working
@@landacottonmetaldetecting3826 I am hosting a Live video with chat tonight at 9pm EST I will be showing everyone How I set the timing on these engines. hope to see you there.
@@mrcbuilds I need to go back on the timing because I skipped the F mark part and it won't stay running when tried pulling it off to crank
@@landacottonmetaldetecting3826 check this out. ua-cam.com/users/liveRu-Z_vGRTyM?feature=share
Very thorough good video thank you
I appreciate you saying so.
Thx you very much bike isfinally running👍
That's great, I'm glad I could help.
Thanks for the video. Im rebuilding and i am at the piston ring part.
I have TP rings and both of the top rings are marked T 25 one is a lighter color and the other is a darker color ring. Also the darker ring seems to have a wider gap. Is this normal?
Each manufacturer has its own way of doing things, the darker ring is generally the lower of the two. The writing side faces up. Please look up your specific piston and ring instructions.
@@mrcbuilds thank you!
Question?? How much can say a 360 grit hone take out of cylinder, u think i can reach first stage bore, so i dont have to pay a machine shop to do it for me, it fits 65-67mm bore, ggz-👽👍
No, a flex hone can only scratch the surface. Take the cylinder to a machine shop and have it bored to match your new piston. They change about $100.
What state are you in, I might just send you one to get running......😬
Is it possible that part 1 is on a different privacy setting than the other videos? When I go to the top end rebuild series, it says there are 8 videos. However only 7 show and at the top it says “1 unavailable video is hidden.” I’m guessing that is the engine tear down video.
Hi travis, i will check on that, thanns
A great tutorial your very Knowledgeable thanks for showing us in great detail.
Glad it was helpful!
Love your videos but I am not a professional but I would not put that grease on those engine parts as it will easily wipe off during and after assembly but would use assembly lube or at least oil, just my opinion, Thanks
Hi dave, thanks, i appreciate your opinion and will consider it. Greese has been used forever repacking hydraulic rams, and this us where i have picked up the habit.
Love the videos!!
just, Living the Dream! your like family
Didn't you need to put gasket seal between the head cover and the head?
Hi Robert, yes, I use grey rtv sealant for that area and black for the stator cover and pull rope assembly. That may have gotten skipped in editing. Thanks for watching.
Hey I just picked up a 1985 Big Red 250ES it runs great and doesn't smoke it does however need a valve adjustment which seems pretty basic. But it leaking oil from what appears to be the rock arm pins. Have you ever resealed one of these ? If so do you have a video of it or one similar? Enjoyed the video Pal !
Unfortunatly I do not have a video on that repair.
I also have a 250es big red in which valves are needing adjustment. Great job on this video. Just began rebuilding top end on my 1982 Honda atc185s. This video will definitely help!! Very methodical presentation.
Hey bud I pulled my rocker box and pulled the head. The intake valve is burnt. I usually take this kinda stuff to a machine shop. But after watching your videos I'm gonna tackle it myself. Does the burnt valve need to be replaced or will lapping in do the trick .
the lobes on mine seem worn down more on one side than the other and different from ex to int will this be much of a problem
Yes, you need a new cam
@@mrcbuilds thanks,keep the videos coming
I need two seats for 185s by any chanse you have any or do you know where to buy them
Www.atcheaven.com sells a fiberglass seat pan for the 185s. Thanks for watching and subscribing
Hi there I'm assuming that is a flex hone brush that you are using to hone the cylinder with. just wondering what the size is,
thanks
Yes it is. Here is a link. amzn.to/3OvIX56
@@mrcbuilds thank you
@@mrcbuilds also wondering what grit you used thanks
@@jakobvandenheuvel3201 240 grit
I’m rebuilding an 84 200es and I believe the piston is 65mm, will the 64mm honing tool you linked above work for my engine? Thank you!
Thanks great info and clear image
Your very welcome
I am looking to do the same rebuilt on my 1984 big red atc200es as it’s smoking quite a bit .
Where did u buy your parts from
Thanks
@@corbana4743 ebay, amazon mostly.
Mabey you could share your expertice? i have a 86 250sx atc and the timing chain has a little slap when its cold, when warm it almost goes away. ive turned the tensoner and it quiets it but only last a cupple of miniutes. aftermarket tensioner,is that a option or a timing chain replacement? ive never been inside the motor, so is that hard to do, or at that point is it a compleate rebuild?
thanks
I would lean the bike up on the right side with a Jack stand under the left side axle, pull the side cover and inspect the chain tensioner, find out why it's not holding an adjustment. You may need a new tensioner or chain, they stretch beyond what the tensioner can adjust. I always start with the easiest, cheapest things to check, and work my way to more expensive parts, when I'm not sure what the problem is. But starts with inspecting the tensioner, and go from there. If you find the tension is ok, but at its limit, you will need a new chain, you can change the chain in frame, as long as you don't try to remove the cylinder. If it was mine, I would take the engine out, do a rering topend new valve seals and chain all at one time.
Does the valve cover not need a gasket?
The round valve covers have rubber o-rings, most kits dont offered the top knuckle style cover gasket, I use a light coat of grey rtv.
Learning so much from you thanks
Happy to help Henry, be sure and subscribe and check out the members only section.
Hi from UK.Thanks for putting the time and effort into creating these videos they help greatly.
I've just completed a top end rebuild of my 200ES....followed the above video ....and checked against an original Honda workshop manual...everything checked out spot on. On testing the engine it will fire and attempt to run for a few seconds...then stops abruptly at which point a strong hissing can be heard coming from the tail pipe.
Sparks good..cam timing lines up as described...I'm baffled.....could anything else be wrong in the valve train?
Any thoughts appreciated from any one he cares to reply.
Thanks Philip
He phillip, go back to the basics. Check compression. This will tell you about the valves, valve timing and the state of the ring pack on the piston. Did you hone the cylinder? New piston? What ring pack or size did you use? Std or an over bore.
What do you mean stops abruptly? Dies like you unplugged the cdi? Coughs and sputter like you run out of gas? Or is there something interfering like stoping with a clunk?
Double check your ring pack package, what size are they? Also after the compression check make sure your in time, that you didnt get the cam a tooth off when you installed the timing chain. Let me know what you find.
Hi....once again thank you for your thoughts on my 200es problems .
Rebore was to suite a 65.5mm Namura Piston
New valves with seats re cut .
Compression test gives 135psi.
Pressure applied by compressed Air through plug hole adapter gives no valve leakage at all.
When it does try and run it needs full choke fires for about 10 cycles then stalls back ....as this is happening there seems to be an excessive amount of fuel blow back through the carb...I understand that air/ fuel actually pulses through the carb....but this is extreme....eventually it stops with almost a back fire..
Checked the timing again last night...tried it a tooth either side of the '0' but no joy.
Tried a Chinese cdi unit which wouldn't let it crank until I disconnected the grey wire from the relay up at the back of chassis.....this cdi gave no firing at all.!!!
Could the original cdi be delivering the spark incorrectly???
If I hold the starter in gear it helps it fire alternatly..but there's a lot of noise coming out through the carb....not the exhaust......sort of 'put..putting '!!
I'm completely stumped...thing is I'm not a novice!!! Decades of tinkering with stuff on the farm having bought my first ATC in 1981.Current workshop project is a 1947 MG....including rebuilding an XPAG race spec engine and Supercharger....that runs fine !!!...which I actually bought in the US and shipped it home to the UK..
Stator shows 235 ohms.
Also tried a new Chinese carb...no different.
Once again thanks for being so generous with your time... form all of us out here.
Best regards Philip
@@pr9854 morning Philip, even us seasoned mechanics get stumped. It sound like you did all your test correctly. I had a bike come in another mechanic worked on and gave up. It seemed to blow fuel out the carb and felt like it was sucking in the exhaust. It took me awhile to figure it out. The cam was 180 degrees out of phase, but the cam gear was on correct. So the dots lined up, but the cam was wrong. So to check this, pull the rotor and cam gear when the engine is at TDC. So the dots would be aligned. At the point the cam should be loose and have no pressure from the valve train and the lobes should be in the down position. If your cam lobes are pointing up and there is pressure on the cam its 180 degrees out of phase, spin the cam 180 and the bolt hole will again line up, bolt on the cam gear with dots aligned and it should fire up and run.
Because your test check out, I think this is the problem, it explains the swishing sound, the fuel blowing out the carb. Let me know what you find out. Dont get frustrated, it's just a puzzle and you have a piece in the wrong way. You will find it.
Hi again...
Well I've double checked the cam orientation and it is correct...had it been 180° out the 'pip' for the rotor drive would have been '5 oclock' not 11.....on that point....I would say mine is more like10 oclock...approx 292.5° of rotation???
As it happens I put a scribe mark on the top sprocket and across onto the cam shaft end before dismantling....and these are lined up again now !!
Only thing I am wondering is if the flywheel is slightly off on the key....but I seem to think I checked that TDC corresponded with actual Piston position before putting the head on.
Tappet clearances are as stated in service book....which to me seemed very tight.....it was before harvest when I built it up....and when it wouldn't run I couldn't spare the time to investigate...so it's been in the workshop ever since!!
Running out of ideas....
Anybody want a 200ES cheap...driving me nuts!!
Thanks Philip
@@pr9854 that's very odd. Try this, set the flywheel at TDC have the exhaust valve cover off, place your left hand on the exhaust valve, now with your right hand rotate the crank counterclockwise the exhaust valve should move downwards about the time the flywheel reaches 11oclock. If the valve dosent move downwards or opens then it's out of time. It's really hard to troubleshoot over the net. But I am happy to help.
What size or part number is the seal at 27 minute mark? Having trouble finding a replacement.
Here is a link: amzn.to/34fhe7L
Thank u so much, love ur videos.
Do you have a link or any recommendations for a 185 piston/ring set? I’m trying to find a decent one online
shindy makes a good piston and rings, you can find kits on ebay with gaskets, while your there replace the timing chain and guides. Ebay - www.ebay.com/itm/235069010420?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KwvQL2xKQJC&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=jpfTOkQ6TV-&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY you can get any athena gasket set and D.I.D. timing chain
you need to know if you need a std bore or an over bore, that link is for a 65.5 over bore. make sure before you order
Will a 250cm3 top end work for a 1983 atc 200?
No sir it will not.
Is there a way to put the manual decompression on cable driven 200s? Or convert mine? I was concerned about it not releasing properly and possibly damage the cam if it doesn’t? Thanks for the vids
You can take the manual lever off of a 200e or one of the other 200cc bike that do not use the cable system. I have heard of using a chole cable to the handle bars. Pull it and when it fires up it will be drawn back in. I have read of making the 350x system the same way.
Awesome thanks so much for replying love your channel sir
Im doing a top end and i ordered a high caliber gasket set and it came with a gold seal type ring. where does that go i see you have one also at minute 46:00 in this video?
The metal gasket goes between the cylinder and the head.
@@mrcbuilds im talking about the gold ring in the top left corner thanks of the screen
is that the gasket for the manifold into the head?
Hey I just got a 1985 Honda ATC 200S. I got it off my buddy and he got it off of someone who was using it for parts. The previous owners (before my buddy) pulled the spark plug and left it out in the weather. So it was froze up. In the process of rebuilding the head but I've run into some trouble.... The intake valve doesn't close completely. Like it's almost closed but it's not completely there
What could cause this? I pulled the valve out and cleaned the seat and cleaned the valve it's self and still no luck
Roll it on the table and check it, I bet its bent.
If not where can I find a new replacement for 83 200 top end can't seem to find one
Gasket kit and piston can be found on ebay.
OK thanks alot working on my second build you helped me alot in the first one with your videos
@@dustybarnes885 gasket amzn.to/3NGYuit, piston amzn.to/3LYOXCn
Hey when you seal a valve cover on one of those ,are you supposed to put sealant around the front where the studs come up through the head,
I do use gray sealant on the top cover, not around the studs but around the perimeter of the cover. Thanks for watching.
@@mrcbuilds your very welcome, I built a 200 engine and put a new timing chain in it ,the one I took out was wore completely out, now that I put the new one in, it has a noise , sounds like it’s coming from the top end, the guides were wore kinda bad,I know I ask lot of questions, but I know your Good at these engines ,can wore guide make a the engine make a noise? Thanks for your info, and love the videos, any info would be appreciated.
@@dannysheppard2882 , Hey, did you adjust the chain tensioner? its the 14mm bolt with the 10mm bolt on top, located just behind the head. with the engine running loosen the 14mm bolt, the noise should stop, then tighten it back up, its pretty much self adjusting. D-ray has a great video on how to do it manually with an allen wrench, if the engine is not running.
@@mrcbuilds what i did is. When I put the new chain on. I loosen the timing adjustment bolt and took a thin screw driver and loosen the tensioner loose as it go so I could get it on the top cam.when I got it timed and on the cam. I loosen the adjustment nut back up and let go against the chain and tighten it back up. That's what my manul said. Unless I missed something.
@@dannysheppard2882 that sounds right. Have you adjusted the valves? Checked the oil level? That about covers a noisy topend. Describe the noise you hear.
I can’t find pt one?
Nice job
Thank you, Sir
Hi, what size is your honing tool and where did you get it? Thanks!!
I use this one. For the 185- 200cc engines. amzn.to/3HBfCFo
@@mrcbuilds Thank you!
hiya i have a 1981 185s and trying to find a new piston everyone is saying its a 66mm piston but the 1 that came out is 62ish... any ideas? honda xl 185s use the 62mm piston would it work?
Hey Darren try this, www.ebay.com/itm/Piston-63mm-Bore-Dome-Rings-Wrist-Pin-Kit-Gaskets-Honda-XL185-13011-427-00/181341371220?epid=27007166159. Thanks for watching.
With all the products you have linked do you have a trusted source for 185 parts? I'm thinking about just finding a good OEM 200 piston and rings and having one of my 185 cylinders bored to match, I've been told it's a pull cord killer making something like 12-1 compression with the stock 185 top end. I don't mind keeping 20ft of rope in my box to replace it if it breaks I'm just wondering if you have done this?
My buddy did and sold it a week later so I never got to really trail test the results so to speak.
The products in my descriptions, are products I use and trust. I have a 200x topend on a 200e bottom end engine, It is definitely harder to pull and thin weak rope will not last but that engine does not have a decompression system like your 185s does. If you use either the cable activated system or use it manually I think you will be ok with at least a 10 to 1 motor and heavy duty pull rope. I have no experience with a 12 to 1 motor, so I cant really say, other than 10 to 1 is noticeably harder to pull
@@mrcbuilds thanks for the quick reply.
So then the 200x top end will work on a 185 case aswell. I've been told the 185 cam is an upgrade for the 200cc top ends aswell I'm sure the 200x has the best stock cam. I'm just wondering if the cam would be a worthwhile throw in for my 200m engine? I've got a 185s engine dropped into my bike for now As the 200m engine was missing the top end when I got the bike and I needed a rider lol. I'm just trying to get both done right and with a little more umph So I can have both bike back.
@@buildurtruckurway9118 yes the 200x cam will work in a 185s and a 200m.
Could the valve lifter possibly be making my 3 wheeler smoke. It needs a crankcase seal and clutch seal and valve lifter seal and possibly a crankcase gasket. Will somebody please let me know?
Yes,very much so, a leaky valve stem seal is a major cause of smoke, also build up of carbon on a valves can also reduce compression and cause smoke.
@@mrcbuilds well it just got running about 6 months ago it was behind the barn for 2 years and we put a new carburator on it and it fired right up and it has been running great but all of a sudden everything has just started leaking and I have been revving it up quite a bit amd the valve lifter seal was already leaking before I started revving it up but now it has been smoking crazy so I wonder if there was carbon build up and since I have been revving it up I wonder if the piston knocked some carbon loose and now carbon is burning off but I know its the valve lifter on why its smoking and I just want it to start running like its new it still looks brand new but its never got rode much at all and my dad has owned it for like 20 years and it's 37 years old I just want it to run like new again.
Help me pls ! I’m so confused my atc has fuel spark timing is correct valves are adjusted perfect carb is clean as a whistle but she no wanna start I can get it to fire over and run like once a day and she runs great for a few seconds then spitters and sputters out I’m so lost at this point as to where to look next possibly a new carb? Or should I pay someone to try and rebuild the original
If it runs at all then the mechanical side should be fine. (timing, compression) since you say it runs good then peters out, 2 things come to mind a bad coil when it gets hot will stop working, or you are sucking rust or trash in the carb. order a new coil and re-clean your carb, run a new fuel filer and make sure there's no trash or rust in the fuel system. Don't give up your almost there.
@@mrcbuilds thank you ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Could you do a video on or do you have a video on how to fix decompression thingy it’s broken/stuck cable is missing but even when we hold the lever in position it don’t do nothin is this a complicated fix? Do I even need to fix it ?
@@willsmooth45 most folks just tie it forward when the cable brakes.
Front axle fits flywheel threads working on these 25 years never knew.
Yes, that trick comes from www.3wheelerworld.com
Got stuck for a few weeks on the flywheel on my 84 200x. Finally a buddy tells me to use the front axle. Couldn't believe it
So I have a question just got me a 1985 200s and turning over engine it gets stuck on top fire position and you can free it past that point with a bit of force but then next cycle it gets jammed agin so what is the most probably problem happening? I don’t hear any noise when I spin it but it definitely locks up on top of compression. I would greatly appreciate any information you could advise me with, hopefully it’s something simple?
Sound like the piston is hitting something, more than likely you dropped a valve or valve seat came loose. You need to pull the engine and take the head off, that will tell you everything. Sorry for the bad news. I would replace the whole top end from a parts motor or just swap in any of the following engines they will bolt right in:185s, 200 or a 200s.
@@mrcbuilds I definitely appreciate the info because I was stuck not knowing what direction I should go.
@@mrcbuilds I had one heck of a startled today decided to go get some starting fluid and I sprayed it through the carburetor and gave it a pull, well I am sure I have ⚡️ because a ball of flames shot out the intake area under seat, scared me. After that I am now hearing a rattle sound faint when I pull engine over it is no longer jamming up however I am leaning towards the piston is broken? Is that plausible? I’m going to pull engine out and I will keep you posted because I like meeting people I can call friends in the same love of Honda ATCs, I own only 2 but don’t plan on stopping, let me ask you this question is it just easier to tip 3 wheeler on its ass end to pull this engine?
@@mrcbuilds I just found your video on engine removal 101 going to give it a watch,
@@InTheFleshInc take the plug out and slow pull the rope until the piston comes to the top of is stroke, get a good flashlight and you can see the top of the piston, if you have a bore scope it would be better. You may see part of a valve or ring bouncing around on top of the piston.
Your shirt looks like it had a little trouble LOL
Can you pleade lower your music down quite a bit on the videos, Thanks
Hi dave, yep that one was pretty loud, learn a lot about editing since then, that video is 2 years old. Thanks for watching. U fortunately once its uploaded i cant change it
I have a 84 trx200 that could use your help lol wouldn’t happen to be located in Texas would ya?
Sorry I am in Florida, I would be happy to answer any questions I can, look me up on Facebook or post the Q. here. thanks for watching, and subscribing
Good
Can you change the rings with the engine in a 1982 200e looks similar to 200m I dont no the difference
The top end is the same, the only difference is the 200e has a sub-transmission where the 200m does not. the piston and rings are the same. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching, and please subscribe.
watch this video, I explain the difference and show you the sub transmission.
ua-cam.com/video/W9hkYHshflA/v-deo.html
I meant to say can you change the rings with the engine in the frame still
@@darkviking3568 You physically can, but it is not easy, I would not recommend it.
Why do I have oil coming out of the wires that come out of the crankcase? Does this mean that the crankcase seal is bad?
there is a rubber plug that protects the wires and seals off that section of the case, www.partzilla.com use to sell it. it may be discontinued, try ebay for a used one, and you can use some RVT or silicone and fill the area let it cure over night before running it again. Not necessarily means the crank seal is bad, that area does have oil in it.
@@mrcbuilds how do I replace it?
@@rileyvinson5047 - Tilt the machine up on its right side, use a jack stand under the rear axle. (keep as much of the oil in)Remove the pull rope assembly, remove the flywheel cover, disconnect the stator wires, slide the old rubber plug/gasket off and replace with a new one. clean the mating surfaces, new gasket or RVT on the flywheel cover and again on the pull rope assembly
@@mrcbuilds do I have to remove the crankcase
@@rileyvinson5047 If you mean remove the engine no, start this video at time stamp 28:25, you will need to remove the flywheel cover, crank bolt and pull rope cover.
I’ve fought for 3 hours today trying to get the cylinder back in by new rings they are so difficult and this cylinder is tampered which makes me furious that I can’t get a simple this done. I’m going to do grease next , I tried oil I tried lube nothing.
Yes grease helps, if you cant squeeze the rings a large band clamp or radiator hose clamp loosely holding the rings in place works also once the rings go into the cylinder you can take the clamp apart and slide it out from under the piston and head. Thanks for watching.
They say 200son the rings but I tried just to see the ring alone in cylinder and they have a overlap by just a few mm so I’m thinking now I got the wrong rings from the supplier what Is the standard size? 65.47 mm standard
The standard bore is 65 for a 200s, so yes they sent you the wrong ring pack. The piston may be wrong too, if it was a kit.
@@mrcbuilds Okay thanks I just knew something was this this difficult, I had ordered only the rings.
You seem to know your 200es brs, the front suspension is non rebuildable. Any luck with cleaning them?
I'm afraid not Jeep250es, Every one I have seen water gets inside and rust out the gas tube, the the bushings wear out and rust solid. Just a poor design. the 200m is the best option for replacement.
@@mrcbuildsThank you for the atc education! Spent my childhood on a 185s ripping with my dad on his 250es. I Sold the 185s to buy a 200es. (I Needed electric start and Reverse) Those little 4 strokes were the sound track of my childhood.
Wheres the atart up video
That motor ends up in another machine
Yessir I gotcha I'm doing a 200es top end right now and noticed I have an oring around one of the jug studs but you didn't have one around one of yours from what I could see. I was wondering if that's a necessary thing or is it a Es specific oring since yours was an M model an may not need it maybe? Just wondering thanks.
@@82airfouler53 back right if you facing the pull start.