As someone who invested heavily into their Caineghis, I'm so pleasantly surprised to see him fare so well in modern times! Nothing feels better than spoiling one of your favorites AND get an extremely competent unit all in one swoop.
Great guide! Even if Brave Corrin were to fall off (which I don't think will happen due to her Divine Vein utility) she's still getting a refine in 2 years, compared to all other new saviors who are getting a refine in 2050. It's her Fate(s) to last long
I would agree but we got Divine Vein on a inheritable skill so it's not so crazy to think we eventually would get that on a skill. Still B!Corrin is crazy strong rn and that would probably not change in a near future LOL
Seeing Brave Hector in the top 12 of the "score" ranks, knowing that he is from freaking book II just shows what kind of "monster" IS created back then. :D
As someone who loved B!Hector since before he got his refine.... I am always happy to see ppl acknowledge how stubborn he is in terms of his usability, heheh
Just my 2 cents. While the effort is indeed commendable, I think the methodology is mainly useful for arena and less so for AR and SD as it assumes that both units are mostly in a vacuum. For all of SD and some of the more difficult AR maps, nukes can potentially hit harder as well. For me, those numbers you mentioned are likely the floor of their performance without support. With nukes being much stronger, the ceiling of the saves will need additional consideration as well. For SD, I feel these 3 are the strongest saves with the highest ceiling right now. 3. Winter Marth. As mentioned in video, unity stacking is dumb. A new addition is Brave Robin, which allows Marth to activate Armored Beacon. 2. Anankos. Right now he is the speed armor to beat due to his weapon punishing buffs. Being a dragon also meant having possible Scowls in the future. Right now the main way is as usual, Unity stacking with Robin and leverage on Maria with Hardy Fighter as usual. 1. Bridal Tiki. Tiki's best special isn't actually Armored Floe, but Miracle. One of Tiki's effect is cooldown -1 before foe's attack on top of her usual reduction. This meant that she only need to find 3 charges somewhere. Coupled with her usual scowl effect, Tiki is extremely difficult to take down. Honourable mentions are Fomortis (not as good in taking a hit, but nightmare is worth building around), VLucina (turn economy is nice, speed save to be used with FMaria) and Brave Corrin (has VChrom issues, but terrain buffs are awesome).
Bruh, the way you hold your syllables, consonants, and vowels when talking;! Very engaging when speaking and nice wordplay. There are caucuses and diplomats around the world that would enjoy a speech from someone like you; consider me subbed...
I think you’re underselling R!Grima’s prf Svalinn Shield alongside comparable spds of the fastest armors and built in sustain from her weapon. Fair though, there is a point to be made about her being better as a Near Save unit and this list is about far saviors, but then Nagi scores higher than her and they both along with Harmonic Tiki have to run the DC seal to be functional for Far Saving. I also am heavily biased having her at + 10 (or at least, I will, once I know where the remaining fodder goes lol)
I’ve actually been having similar conversations about V!Lucina. All of this was done at +1. Speed armors in particular really benefit from merges. They just need every single point of speed they can get. At +10, R!Grima is a much better unit than at +1
I guess Brave Corrin will be OK-ish if you opt out of the focus on speed. Yes, she does have a fair amount of speed built into her BST and skills right now, but the speed she has would probably be obsolete in some time, not too far in the future. However, she doesn't have a speed check for any of these. Her divine vein effect is also Def/Res stacking. This means that even if she didn't care about speed at all, she could still perform like the hectors AND with triple 1-shot protection built into her Prf weapon, A and B. Another note is on Rearmed Grima. I personally think Savvy Fighter 4 would be better on her (Mere guesses, I Didn't experiment as was in the video), but the dragon DC seal still annoys me, taking up an entire slot. I'm guessing that maybe you can slap more meta-skills onto her in the future, making her a good repository, as well as having more merges over time. Still, I am using her more as an omni-tank (Sometimes paired with an Alear and freak people out in SD) or near savior, not a far savior. I can use the out-of-the-box B! Corrin instead.
This video was super helpful! I like that I understand more what a unit needs to be a good far save and which of my units I can work on to see good results!
Very nice video! Can't really comment on anything being wrong since (I don't play SD and) it seems you put so much thought and research into this, which is SUPER APPRECIATED.
Sorry but the nukes used to test the saviors make this INSANELLY BIAS, 4 reds, no more common nukes either like citrinne, Arval, Shamir this list definetelly could have got a little bit of extra cooking time, also let ninja corrin Go she ain't that big of a deal as nuke anymore, put a soren there or something like that
Well I guess going into this with 7 Nukes is already taking a lot of time to prepare and in case of Corrin, I think Joel is knowing that and thats why she was the only one, which was counted with +10 stats instead of +1 (or maybe, cause she was part of a AHR once and therefore the probability more people having her max merged is higher than for the others). Sure you could have used more, but I think the chosen nukes were alright, showing first a bigger age/version range (like not everyone has or uses the newest nukes/units), in general high popularity units and probably from his own experience how often he faces them. Sure with more units/nukes there would have been some changes... but I don't think most would have changed drastically, I think than its just ... getting more exactly towards a certain number. Not to mention there were units with lower score that he ranked higher but also some with higher score he ranked lower, so he already adjusted some of the things with his other two criteria.
@@Ancolyrica but TO CREATE A TIERList and not even count the most modern nukes IS not a good Idea, Summer Shamir IS insanelly popular, Arval is INSANE COMMON, Brammimond too, Citrinne IS also super popular or hell not even comparing with the other CYL nukes
@@kiroib3856 still I think the choices he made aren’t that bad at all, considering all of them have at least one thing out of DR Piercing, Effective Damage, Brave Attacking and High Thread Range/Mobility and all also kinda functioning „on their own“ or at least doesn’t necessarily are in need of a certain team comp. Sure he could have added more, but overall I think more strong nukes just would have made lower ranked Armors even worse and/or overall nearly all candidates probably would have just lower score, with maybe just minuscule changes in the tiers at all.
@@Ancolyrica i disagree the amount of red nukes put units like Yector or Takumi into disavantage or big advantage, and that comparisson and many of those feel relative week in general nukes don't simply exist in a vacuum
My Valentines Lucina performed so amazingly this Duels S season. I have her at +4 and used her with Might of Myriads and Atk/Spd Unity. She was by far my MVP and gelped tremendously to climb from 6k points to the very top spot.
B!corrins vein isnt reliable in sd though, and without it shes easier to crumble. She kinda loses to game mechanics which..isnt great. Kinda a hard counter
Hello! I just wanted to ask what you thought about Fireflood Boost 3 on Bridal Tiki since you had Mirror Stance on her images. I was under the impression that Fireflood Boost was better since it gives more atk,res, on top of the +5 hp, but of course it does have the >49% HP requirement. Would love to know your thoughts. Thanks for the great video, hope you have a great rest of your day ☺
I had a really hard time dealing with Brave Corrin in AR, that I failed to see that I had an obvious answer to dealing with her all along. in a recent fight, all my range attackers would die if attacking her, and the only melee character i had on field was m!Byleth, i just said fugg it and threw him at her and he just ORKO's her taking very little damage back. And has consistently done so ever since i discovered it.
Thanks for the tier list! ...Honestly this just makes me happy that I'm trying to get the pieces to make my Anankos a far savior, I have desperately needed one for a while now and Picnic Felicia didn't cut it, Henriette didn't cut it, no one was! But this makes me REALLY happy to see.
As someone who has invested into Fallen Robin (male), he actually does well. Even without hardy fighter his pure HP and raw attack allows him to survive most things, not to mention having Guard in his weapon with built in DC helps him kill off enemies.
Love the lists. I primarily utilize Far Saves on AR-D so this further guides me to aim/build/insert the right units! Weirdly, potentially since my AR-O team is potent, I find dealing with B!Corrin easier than I expected where I’m left somewhat scrambling before Dark Season if to hold the line and keep her inserted or explore something that’s ready to save if the enemy engages turn 1. The fun dilema to deal with that makes videos like this much more appreciated! 😬
@@takarahayashi4124 yeah I don’t use saves unless it’s Astra and even then they’re a backup option. I’m moreso referencing on my AR-D team where I’m testing against my own Gullvieg and Gully (on how I have the team built around her) os bursting through Corrin so I’m questioning if to adjust. We’ll see how it plays out 😬
one of the things i like about Brave Corrin is that she's not invincible. good players and good defenses can dispatch her if folks try to brainlessly plonk.
Fantastic video. The scoring system gives a more objective ranking of the units. No formula is perfect and the one you used seems good enough for the purpose you are trying to achieve. Thank you for your time in putting this together.
I am a big fan of save skills and 2 units I still use to this day are Effie and Arden. My Arden is running a fairly standard near save build but I have my Effie (resplendent) running a very meme build that somehow does work at times. I have her optimal kit baked in to her too, but I prefer running the meme build because it's far more hilarious when it works and I don't play the game to stay in like tier 21 arena, or top out summoner duels. I just play it to have fun. My Effie build is as follows +10 Merge +25 flowers, Attack boon and Speed Ascended boon 71 HP / 72 Atk / 41 Spd / 46 Def / 36 Res Arcane Qiang - Spd Refine Swap / Harsh Command+ (depends on if I'm in arena or not basically) Armoured Beacon Distant Dart Savvy Fighter 4 D/R Far Save 3 (don't have A/S far save unfortunately, maybe I'll snag it when Takumi gets rerun if I'm lucky) Spd/Def Ideal 3 With this setup in enemy phase on her own at 100% hp she gets up to an effective 60 speed, so she can get the DR condition of Savvy Fighter on anything up to 70 speed. Not the greatest benchmark with how the speed meta is these days, but it's still funny. With a team I can push her up to about 75 speed depending on the comp when you include reins from allies and sheet/combat buffs without hurting the rest of the teams ability to kill things effectively, I like to run a lot of older units since some of my favourites got added to the game early on. Optimal build? No. Build I have fun with? Hell ya This is honestly just a build
I’m so happy I +10’d my Arden and have him fully blinged out with all the good skills. That HP stat is hilariously high on him even by today’s standards. Easily one of the best grail projects I’ve ever done!
Revisiting this now that Beast seal is a thing, I'll absolutely LOVE to test Caineghis and Fomortiis in SD and AR now that they don't need a team built around their transformation
Finally, my biggest mistake finally pays off. Long ago I tried to make L!Alm +10 but instead I got 11 copies of Caineghis. Counter Roar makes him a super aggressive tank, not to mention that part of the help for the pots in AR.
As someone who invested into ascended fjorm on release, she has really only just started to fall off recently. She still has her place but the nukes have finally caught her up. That null C disrupt though is soo good, even now with all the healers and sweep effects.
Was a shame there wasn't more to say about B!Edelgard or A!Idunn. I chose them to be my near and far savers respectively. Edel in particular is my first 5 Star Exclusive plus ten, and shes never let me down. I wish I had more Idunn merges lol. I had to use my re armed Grima to get her Hardy Fighter, RIP
Im so tempted to pull for brave corrin right now, I love her speed and support. my current far save is bridal tiki and im having the dilemma abt replacing her because I don’t want to replace her so soon after spending so many orbs for her.
As an M!Grima enjoyer (simp) It hurts to see both versions of him soo low, but it's honestly soo understandable. One's hard to merge up and the other is a better near savior.
Suddenly I'm very happy that V.Takumi spooked me in the free single. I have both him and B.Corrin at zero merges tho but at least I have some new tanks since I'm a returning player
Kinda curious on what pushes hardin so much over other dc armors such as l!tiki, also think that w!sothis is a bit low but otherwise great video! It's insane how much harder far save has become in the current meta imo
i tried so hard with W!Sothis. She has so many pieces that I really like. I think she's in the same boat as Anankos. She really needs some form of speed scowl.
@@FEH Agreed on the speed scowl part, can't wait for the skill to drop. I just love how null dragon effectiveness makes her immune to shez's swift slice.
I currently have both B!Corrin and Bridal Tiki. Is Bridal Tiki gonna be a good near save? I like them both. Will there be an updated near save list in the future?
I wonder if Mythic Veyle makes this video age poorly. Pardon me if that comes off strange. I would think drive scowl is something that can make any savior/godunit potent for the time being. Or maybe I’m wrong, Corrin needed scowl as well. Its just fun to watch these and see how specific units completely warp how player/enemy phasing is done.
> V!Takumi in tier 0 Oh how did this happen? Let's watch > My friend with a +10 V!Takumi with tons of investment... Well this is off to a great start starting off with a premise that tends to lead to weird results. > Showing off this replay against a terrible SD team with the only relevant ranged nuke being one who Takumi specifically does really well against! > Also we are considering him to have Scowl reliably active (pesky blue, green and colorless units don't exist!) I get why it happened, but it really doesn't take a genius to figure out what went wrong in his evaluation here for him to appear seemingly out of thin air as top tier. Edit: So, looking at the methodology for the outcome, the problem becomes even clearer. Takumi's main weakness is brave attacks, AOEs and pre-charged specials from anything not Red. We have one AOE unit on the test. His actual counters are completely unrepresented basically!
I’m right there with on being an ascended Fjorm apologizer. I still use her as a far save and I think she’s still stronger than most people give her credit. I catch a lot of people off guard by using her as a L! Veronica hard counter. People might say I’m trolling, but with just her basic kit and the hardy bearing seal she’ll destroys L! Veronica and a lot of other glass cannons. Their first hit bounces off with ice mirror and hardy fighter, than hardy bearing activates and she disrupt the desperation effect and kills them on her counter attack with her built in null c disrupt. I’m not saying she’s amazing and any unit in your tier 0 and 1 definitely better, but I still think she’s tier 2. Anything thanks for all the great content, it’s always very helpful.
As a bector enjoyer, I feel conflicted. Him not being tier 0 doesn't feel good, but on the other side for how old he is, it's kinda amazing. I personally focus on AR and believe that survivability > doing damage back. Doing one job amazing > doing multiple jobs kinda halfassed. Not having dc in your weapon becomes kinda valuable thanks to the deflective seals. I haven't really tested armored beacon (no fodder), but for hardy fighter builds all good bectors run a non dc A slot like distant defense 4. I liked the Kjelle propaganda, can't wait for her near save score and the svalin shield hopium
I was wondering where you would put Winter Hilda on this list, only to find out she is not even in it, lmao. The reason for my curiosity was because I was putting her through sims, and at max investment, she survives both Valentines Chrom and L!Hinoka at max investment (Chrom with a precharged Deadeye) but no extra buffs nor external support, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but she's the only fast Armor lance in the game right now, or atleast fast by today's standards. And I dunno if I agree with Anankos so high, whenever I've fought him I've never have had that much trouble, and surprisingly enough, he can't take a Deadeye from Chrom despite having the color advantage. Scowl kinda prevents precharged specials, but as you said, until there's a Spd/anything Scowl, is kind of a hard sell for Anankos, especially because he needs to get DC from somewhere and sacrificing the spd you could get from the seal slot is already a huge compromise.
Awesome list bro. I had a bad time in chaos season with Corrin but probably because I didnt used the right supports. Debuff neutralization is crucial nowdays 😅
Great video ! I have never ever encountered a Takumi, now I'm super curious !! I feel like Felicia and Lucina can do way better with a Hardy fighter build + a -1 CD support. But if you had to rank units by considering every support you can give them, it would be so difficult that the video wouldn't have been finished before IS introduces Surtr's re-refine 😂 Anyway, Felicia is one of the units who uses merges the best as she relies one 3 stats (4 if you give her dc) AND has a visible stat check. Excluding Triangle Attacks support, my +10 only fears Chroms because of the precharged effective hits. Enough with the Felicia favoritism, what is the build you gave to Brave Edelgard ?
Literally after CYL7 i have a really broken team thanks to it , since I get to stack buffs on nowi / soren + L!Ninian and B!Corrin , with a nowi and corrin with double save units in summoner duels, with +30/40 def/res xD
Seeing W! Ephraim and V! Robin so low kinda hurts, but they still do a great job for me, so thats fine for me. The thing i realized just now is that if you only count Corrins unpiercable DR its basicly equal to B! Dimitris full Dr, thats a fun thought 👀.
@FEH If you run him in sims against a lot of meta red units, then you're right indeed. But in reality, that's never the case, especially in higher ranks. For example, when you use: Brave Dimitri + Duo Askr + Fallen Maria + Young Hector + 2 Mythics You would always place your units in a way that Dimitri tanks Legendary Veronica and Young Hector tanks Duo Shamir. Sure, if you only want to judge 1vs1 and based on versatility, then Young Hector isn't the greatest cause red is by far the strongest colour in this meta. But when you actually consider his team around him and realistic circumstances, then he's one of the best in his role. Although I would probably use Brave Corrin now as well.
Thanks for a great video. Quick question: at 12:00 citrinne vs. seliph, how come miracle (from seliph's weapon or fallen maria) never triggered? I know she gets x4 attacks but he died in 2. I saw this in my own AR defense replay too (the ARO team tank died to 2 hits from my Chrom while supported by Maria); sorry this turned out to be more of a question re f: Maria than far save!
Only 2023 save units are meta color me surprised lol. Still, I think basically most of these units are viable in AR-O, there with the blessings you're good to go, my AIdunn and RRobin combo tank almost everything, in SD on the other hand... yeah, that's a dolphin/whale ocean mode with no bonus stats and new toys all the time. It's very hard for an "old" bait unit to keep up.
It's a shame that Caineghis dropped from meta to 1 but he's still amazing, still waiting for that OP B exclusive to beasts to make him improve Also I use him on SD and everyone is super afraid of attacking him with even the meta dominant threats like LHinoka or LShez, and he's part of my Light Core and again amazing performance, another benefit as an older unit is that his HP is huge so that gives a lot of survivality in general
Where would Murdock land on this list? From a mostly F2P player I’m debating fully investing in him for score and pairing him with my near save Vigarde. Or do you suggest holding off since new units like Cyril can almost score as well while being a ranged infantry?
As someone with a F!R!F!Robin merge project who already foddered one Corrin for A/S Far Save and Floe, I'm not sold on Counter Roar 4 Yeah the damage deflection sounds nice, though I'm not sure why it's "before reductions" or what it means But losing out on higher DR + Full NFU from Savvy 4 on a speedy unit for a higher damage output sounds like a losing gambit... It makes sense on Corrin because she has NFU on her weapon, but Grima doesn't, and I've learned the hard way how important at LEAST Defensive NFU (from Hardy) is I'm guessing the sims gave Counter Roar better overall results, but it definitely strikes me as a sims vs practice situation Absolutely loved the video! Just thought I'd share that little thought Also, as someone who uses +10 A!Fjorm as their only far save, "needs help" tier is completely spot on!
@@joanlopa15 Spd Refine Grima, Pivot (for convenience in movement), Armored Floe (even as Near, since it's just a good special that might save her from a ranged sniper on top), Prf A (You can add Scowl if you want the flexibility for PvE, but I'm waiting for Spd/Res), Savvy 4 (Full NFU is too good to pass on for a speedy unit trying to survive *and* kill), A/S Near/Far Save and either DC(D) or Atk/Spd Form for near (you'll want the stats) Again, I have my doubts on Counter Roar 4, specially since Grima doesn't have Corrin's sheer bulk and full NFU to let go of Savvy, but if you're gonna max invest into Grima, you may as well give it to her anyways, since she can duplicate it, even if you don't use it. Oh and a fun fact, pairing Hardy Fighter with Guidance 4 gives any armor full NFU as long as they outspeed while retaining the unpierceable Hardy nonsense, which is really fun on both Grima and Fjorm!
@@Ender_King09 i use Ra!robin with a guidance 4 user, do you think itd be worth still giving her savvy 4 instead just for the extra boost in speed (speed creep is so wild) and protection from brave attacks? just as a near save
@@blasagna1892 Near save gets weirder and weirder for Grima by the update, not only is speedcreep starting to leave her behind (Since she's rearmed, she's technically base 47 but has no superboon and only +5 from weapon) but Melee Threats are getting ridiculous, almost as if IS wanted to catch them up with ranged ones (Aside from Karla and Nanna, near saving was pretty chill a few months ago) So frankly it's up to your team comp, if you have enough stat boosters to keep Grima up to speed and don't fear brave hitters, Hardy is way better whenever it works, since it can't be pierced by anything but 2 units. If you think your speed may need the extra help, Savvy 4 will reduce WAY less damage, can be pierced with NFU4, but gives you a better matchup against brave attacks and stats you'll likely need. TL;DR: It's definitely worth having it on her, both for usage and duplication, but neither skill will prove better than the other reliably for Near Saving. For far saving Savvy 4 is better since you HAVE to run Beacon or Floe, making hardy useless.
@@Ender_King09 thanks for the reply! definitely sounds like a good investment then, im desperately trying to get another copy of her from the hero fest so i can also give savvy 4 and a/s near save to v!lucina for favoritism purposes
I made my current acc during valentine Takumis banner. Got him +1 while going for duo Elise. There was an sds a couple weeks later and I had him on a hit and run team that everybody and their mother kept letting me use. That team got me all the way up to tier 17. A three week old acc hitting tier 17. It was insane man, nobody could beat him!
@@FEH at the time I thought it was just new unit catching people off guard admittedly, but yeah he is still holding up now with the optimal skills! He definitely needs all the new top stuff to shine though. I love using units like him that people aren’t familiar with seeing all the time
When you say rein, do you mean just reducing the opponents stats? I feel like usually when I hear people talk about reins that specifically means distance based ones that affect other allies combat, as opposed to what I've seen people call daunts, which I think is what you are calling reins.
My accidental Nagi at +10 is so amazing, im so happy she’s tier 1. I wanted to ask why is V!Hector so low? I don’t disagree or anything (I killed him off to give to my Nagi a while ago) but I remember he was top tier when he came out.
Loved this, think young hector should atleast be in teir 1 but thats my opinion 🤣 really hoping we see a Near Save list too in the near future 😄great quality upload as always dude 👊
Sometimes my brain gets ahead of my mouth and to catch up, I skip words 😅 The idea is, every stat matters, and that first merge gives you 5 stat points.
I didn't see the builds you used for Ascended Idunn and Brave Edelgard! Anything surprising? I keep coming back to Black Eagle Rule for the 80%DR on follow up hits...
I really thought I added those in. B!edelgard armored beacon, black eagle rule, DR Far Save & Def/Res Form A!Idunn Armored Beacon, Atk/Res Scowl, Special Fighter 4, A/D Far Save, DC Seal
I never did get Bridal Tiki. After my L!Chrom one-shotted her, I decided she probably wasn’t good enough, so I skipped her. Also, my +1 Duo Shamir blew away a +10 Corrin in Aether Raids, so I’m not that impressed with her either. To me, a good far save needs to survive both of those, but I haven’t run into many yet that can.
I think you were pretty unfair with your Winter Marth placement, since he is indeed a meta pick for more than just SD. He's also amazing on defense, since he isn't phased by Bolt tower, works as amazing role compression on catria teams (Nuke and Far Saver), and hardy bearing isn't as commonly run on offense. He also doesn't care about guard and has flexibility in his builds. Top of tier 2 or bust.
Can’t argue with you on SD, but I use him extensively there. The new bulky nukes like duo Ymir handle him easily. Most teams have some form of hardy bearing or counter disrupt. On defense, I’m always worried about speed based units. It’s just so much easier to stack speed on offense.
Hello! Flora is one of my faves and i would like to use her as my main Far savior in different modes. Soon enough will have another Hall of forms and i can get another copy of her (making her +5). I would like to ask, what is her best build that can i get? What teams can i make with her? Brave robin is a good support for her?
From the sims, Armored Beacon/Vengeful 4/DR Far Save did the best. This is a general build, though and you can be a little creative with the B and seal. As far as teams go, that’s a much longer explanation. If you look at @penrost ‘s channel, you’ll see a lot of good defense replays that involve her.
Out of curiosity, why does Arden, statistically, preform better than Zephiel? Theres a few point difference in atk, spd and def, but like 10 hp vs res. Did Zephiel preform that much worse? Im also a massive Arden fan, but between ZeShado ranking Zephiel better and just knowing their stats are very similar, thought id ask about your research directly
Hardin is a tough sell for me on this list i have a similar build and he just keeps dying to everything lol whuch sucks because i've invested sooo much into him trying to make him be good
Interesting list. My loyalty to Fallen Rhea compels me to ask why you simmed Counter Roar on her. When she fails in arena, it's always because she gets killed. Counter Roar wouldn't help with that. And I must brag on her - she beat the new Corrin in a 1 v 1 slugfest.
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Your doing something wrong. If i can kill a +10 Brave Corrin with Arvel. Im sure anybody can. Alsooo Dragon and Armor effectiveness is everywhere, so she isnt a huge problem. And she is gonna fall off soon. WINTER is always more armors
I’m sorry, but I don’t know how interpret this tier list. VTakumi making tier 0 doesn’t surprise me when more than half the featured nukes are reds that rely on speed to do damage. Why did you chose those 7 nukes? Why not include some tanky ranged units that are everywhere in the current meta (LRobin, NYAskr, SYmir, or even SShamir, Brammimond, or Arval)? Did you account for BCatria buffs at all? She is everywhere in both SD and AR, and not including her buffs is just negating the meta. Then there is the skill tier list that seems to imply certain skills are more desirable, yet once you go to the builds, others are picked over them (buff negation on Caineghis or PFlora over other skills like Stances). Then there’s Anankos running Savvy Fighter 4 and not Counter Roar 4, like the other speedy dragarmors). How come?
Nukes: The list I had was actually much longer. These were picked because of a combination of popularity and whether they actually showed something. Ymir, Askr, and Robin don’t change the outcome of the rankings, so they weren’t included. They also don’t hit as hard as the units that were. Shamir & Bram are just hard to get good sim data out of. Catria may be the meta, but she’s doesn’t change the rankings. I would argue that the only mode she really holds weight in is against AR-O opponents. In SD, if your opponent has Catria and they’re a decent player, your save will be defeated. She’s not a differentiator. When a savior is in AR-D, you’ll rarely face her. As far as the AR-O saviors go, you either beat Catria balls with support (F!Maria) or by outplaying them. It’s why the case studies are included. The effects tier list is difficult for saviors, but I really wanted to drive home the point of which skills are building blocks. For many of the skills, it depends on how much of the effect you have, but it also depends on synergy. It’s hard to discuss these things without making the video several hours long. For Anankos, savvy 4 did better on him. He really wants NFU as most speedy units do.
@@FEH thanks for the explanation! I don't think this is a list for me then. I don't play AR-D, and rarely use them on SD. A Far Savior built to survive is more of a PP tool (protect nukes) than an EP one (kill on retaliation). That's why tanky nukes are a problem for me, while not for the tier list.
In my opinion, the new units like Corrin that are absolutely broken is nice because that means a lot more of skills, more upgrades, and simply stronger units, but at the other side I think the game is becoming some repetetive, almost everyone has an arcane weapon and of course almost everyone has a crazy speed or crazy damage reduction, so I simply don't really like that kind of gameplay, I prefer that my units have their originals weapons that arcane weapons like everyone else.
![GAMEBREAKING or GAMELOSING?!? | Ranking Every Brave Refine (20 Heroes) [FEH]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b-ipphjTC00/mqdefault.jpg)
![GAMEBREAKING or GAMELOSING?!? | Ranking Every Brave Refine (20 Heroes) [FEH]](/img/tr.png)
![MYTHICS= MAX VALUE!!! | Tier List & Analysis [FEH]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/777t52IX3J4/mqdefault.jpg)
![I BUILT 100 GALEFORCE TEAMS!!! [FEH]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2d4dpnCNe2I/mqdefault.jpg)
V!Takumi in tier 0!? I knew he was good but same tier as B!Corrin and Bride!Tiki is insane!
I’m still in disbelief. Why isn’t he on your defense? 😁
As someone who invested heavily into their Caineghis, I'm so pleasantly surprised to see him fare so well in modern times! Nothing feels better than spoiling one of your favorites AND get an extremely competent unit all in one swoop.
Have you tried out Counter Roar?
@@FEH Not yet, but I definitely plan to give it a try when another Brave Corrin shows up! Not quite ready to fodder my only one
Great guide! Even if Brave Corrin were to fall off (which I don't think will happen due to her Divine Vein utility) she's still getting a refine in 2 years, compared to all other new saviors who are getting a refine in 2050. It's her Fate(s) to last long
I would agree but we got Divine Vein on a inheritable skill so it's not so crazy to think we eventually would get that on a skill.
Still B!Corrin is crazy strong rn and that would probably not change in a near future LOL
You could say that she is a safe investment.
Shes not too great in sd currently, though i can see other game modes sure :)
I think she’s fantastic and should have a long life. Of course, IS comes along and ruins my day now and again.
@@BARadiantDawn I heard she's not great in AR either.
Oddly, I haven't seen her around enough to confirm.
Seeing Brave Hector in the top 12 of the "score" ranks, knowing that he is from freaking book II just shows what kind of "monster" IS created back then. :D
it's fun to see him defy the odds year after year.
As someone who loved B!Hector since before he got his refine.... I am always happy to see ppl acknowledge how stubborn he is in terms of his usability, heheh
I’m angry every day that I didn’t invest jn him.
I invested heavily into W!Annette, and she's worked very well for me!
i love it when favorites perform well. she's a lot of fun. i'm glad they quit ignoring ranged armors.
Just my 2 cents. While the effort is indeed commendable, I think the methodology is mainly useful for arena and less so for AR and SD as it assumes that both units are mostly in a vacuum. For all of SD and some of the more difficult AR maps, nukes can potentially hit harder as well.
For me, those numbers you mentioned are likely the floor of their performance without support. With nukes being much stronger, the ceiling of the saves will need additional consideration as well. For SD, I feel these 3 are the strongest saves with the highest ceiling right now.
3. Winter Marth. As mentioned in video, unity stacking is dumb. A new addition is Brave Robin, which allows Marth to activate Armored Beacon.
2. Anankos. Right now he is the speed armor to beat due to his weapon punishing buffs. Being a dragon also meant having possible Scowls in the future. Right now the main way is as usual, Unity stacking with Robin and leverage on Maria with Hardy Fighter as usual.
1. Bridal Tiki. Tiki's best special isn't actually Armored Floe, but Miracle. One of Tiki's effect is cooldown -1 before foe's attack on top of her usual reduction. This meant that she only need to find 3 charges somewhere. Coupled with her usual scowl effect, Tiki is extremely difficult to take down.
Honourable mentions are Fomortis (not as good in taking a hit, but nightmare is worth building around), VLucina (turn economy is nice, speed save to be used with FMaria) and Brave Corrin (has VChrom issues, but terrain buffs are awesome).
Bruh, the way you hold your syllables, consonants, and vowels when talking;! Very engaging when speaking and nice wordplay. There are caucuses and diplomats around the world that would enjoy a speech from someone like you; consider me subbed...
I think you’re underselling R!Grima’s prf Svalinn Shield alongside comparable spds of the fastest armors and built in sustain from her weapon.
Fair though, there is a point to be made about her being better as a Near Save unit and this list is about far saviors, but then Nagi scores higher than her and they both along with Harmonic Tiki have to run the DC seal to be functional for Far Saving.
I also am heavily biased having her at + 10 (or at least, I will, once I know where the remaining fodder goes lol)
I’ve actually been having similar conversations about V!Lucina. All of this was done at +1. Speed armors in particular really benefit from merges. They just need every single point of speed they can get.
At +10, R!Grima is a much better unit than at +1
Gotta ask, what about Murdock? Even for an F2P unit, he seems phenomenal.
I guess Brave Corrin will be OK-ish if you opt out of the focus on speed. Yes, she does have a fair amount of speed built into her BST and skills right now, but the speed she has would probably be obsolete in some time, not too far in the future. However, she doesn't have a speed check for any of these. Her divine vein effect is also Def/Res stacking. This means that even if she didn't care about speed at all, she could still perform like the hectors AND with triple 1-shot protection built into her Prf weapon, A and B.
Another note is on Rearmed Grima. I personally think Savvy Fighter 4 would be better on her (Mere guesses, I Didn't experiment as was in the video), but the dragon DC seal still annoys me, taking up an entire slot. I'm guessing that maybe you can slap more meta-skills onto her in the future, making her a good repository, as well as having more merges over time. Still, I am using her more as an omni-tank (Sometimes paired with an Alear and freak people out in SD) or near savior, not a far savior. I can use the out-of-the-box B! Corrin instead.
This video was super helpful! I like that I understand more what a unit needs to be a good far save and which of my units I can work on to see good results!
Would be cool if you do a near save tier and say who is better as a near and who as far:)
Very nice video! Can't really comment on anything being wrong since (I don't play SD and) it seems you put so much thought and research into this, which is SUPER APPRECIATED.
Sorry but the nukes used to test the saviors make this INSANELLY BIAS, 4 reds, no more common nukes either like citrinne, Arval, Shamir this list definetelly could have got a little bit of extra cooking time, also let ninja corrin Go she ain't that big of a deal as nuke anymore, put a soren there or something like that
Well I guess going into this with 7 Nukes is already taking a lot of time to prepare and in case of Corrin, I think Joel is knowing that and thats why she was the only one, which was counted with +10 stats instead of +1 (or maybe, cause she was part of a AHR once and therefore the probability more people having her max merged is higher than for the others).
Sure you could have used more, but I think the chosen nukes were alright, showing first a bigger age/version range (like not everyone has or uses the newest nukes/units), in general high popularity units and probably from his own experience how often he faces them.
Sure with more units/nukes there would have been some changes... but I don't think most would have changed drastically, I think than its just ... getting more exactly towards a certain number. Not to mention there were units with lower score that he ranked higher but also some with higher score he ranked lower, so he already adjusted some of the things with his other two criteria.
@@Ancolyrica but TO CREATE A TIERList and not even count the most modern nukes IS not a good Idea, Summer Shamir IS insanelly popular, Arval is INSANE COMMON, Brammimond too, Citrinne IS also super popular or hell not even comparing with the other CYL nukes
@@kiroib3856 still I think the choices he made aren’t that bad at all, considering all of them have at least one thing out of DR Piercing, Effective Damage, Brave Attacking and High Thread Range/Mobility and all also kinda functioning „on their own“ or at least doesn’t necessarily are in need of a certain team comp.
Sure he could have added more, but overall I think more strong nukes just would have made lower ranked Armors even worse and/or overall nearly all candidates probably would have just lower score, with maybe just minuscule changes in the tiers at all.
@@Ancolyrica i disagree the amount of red nukes put units like Yector or Takumi into disavantage or big advantage, and that comparisson and many of those feel relative week in general nukes don't simply exist in a vacuum
My Valentines Lucina performed so amazingly this Duels S season. I have her at +4 and used her with Might of Myriads and Atk/Spd Unity. She was by far my MVP and gelped tremendously to climb from 6k points to the very top spot.
future vision is SO AMAZING in SD.
ik no grails units but my +10 murdock is a beast! great guide, you gained a sub!
"Phenomenal refines on armors"
RIP my Valbar
Oof. I’m right there with you. I thought my +10 Valbar was about to wreck stuff right before his refine. 😭
Yes, a savior needs to survive above everything else. I tested nagi extensively for that haha cant wait to see how my faves place!
Duo idunn with harmo eddy is great :) and marth is nuts!
Arcane nagi is still better then refine though :)
B!corrins vein isnt reliable in sd though, and without it shes easier to crumble. She kinda loses to game mechanics which..isnt great. Kinda a hard counter
when your hard counter is "end turn", u know b corrn has problems in Sd ^^ @@BARadiantDawn
Hello! I just wanted to ask what you thought about Fireflood Boost 3 on Bridal Tiki since you had Mirror Stance on her images. I was under the impression that Fireflood Boost was better since it gives more atk,res, on top of the +5 hp, but of course it does have the >49% HP requirement. Would love to know your thoughts. Thanks for the great video, hope you have a great rest of your day ☺
23:30 THAT'S MY AR DEFENSE TEAM LMAO ! (I legit screamed)
I hope you do a close-save list soon!
I had a really hard time dealing with Brave Corrin in AR, that I failed to see that I had an obvious answer to dealing with her all along. in a recent fight, all my range attackers would die if attacking her, and the only melee character i had on field was m!Byleth, i just said fugg it and threw him at her and he just ORKO's her taking very little damage back. And has consistently done so ever since i discovered it.
Dr piercing be like:
Thanks for the tier list! ...Honestly this just makes me happy that I'm trying to get the pieces to make my Anankos a far savior, I have desperately needed one for a while now and Picnic Felicia didn't cut it, Henriette didn't cut it, no one was! But this makes me REALLY happy to see.
My new fave Far Save is Ninja Camilla
As someone who has invested into Fallen Robin (male), he actually does well. Even without hardy fighter his pure HP and raw attack allows him to survive most things, not to mention having Guard in his weapon with built in DC helps him kill off enemies.
Love the lists. I primarily utilize Far Saves on AR-D so this further guides me to aim/build/insert the right units! Weirdly, potentially since my AR-O team is potent, I find dealing with B!Corrin easier than I expected where I’m left somewhat scrambling before Dark Season if to hold the line and keep her inserted or explore something that’s ready to save if the enemy engages turn 1.
The fun dilema to deal with that makes videos like this much more appreciated! 😬
it's hard using savers in offense due to a certain batgirl nullifying savers being in many defense teams.
@@takarahayashi4124 yeah I don’t use saves unless it’s Astra and even then they’re a backup option. I’m moreso referencing on my AR-D team where I’m testing against my own Gullvieg and Gully (on how I have the team built around her) os bursting through Corrin so I’m questioning if to adjust. We’ll see how it plays out 😬
one of the things i like about Brave Corrin is that she's not invincible. good players and good defenses can dispatch her if folks try to brainlessly plonk.
Fantastic video. The scoring system gives a more objective ranking of the units. No formula is perfect and the one you used seems good enough for the purpose you are trying to achieve. Thank you for your time in putting this together.
I am a big fan of save skills and 2 units I still use to this day are Effie and Arden. My Arden is running a fairly standard near save build but I have my Effie (resplendent) running a very meme build that somehow does work at times. I have her optimal kit baked in to her too, but I prefer running the meme build because it's far more hilarious when it works and I don't play the game to stay in like tier 21 arena, or top out summoner duels. I just play it to have fun. My Effie build is as follows
+10 Merge +25 flowers, Attack boon and Speed Ascended boon
71 HP / 72 Atk / 41 Spd / 46 Def / 36 Res
Arcane Qiang - Spd Refine
Swap / Harsh Command+ (depends on if I'm in arena or not basically)
Armoured Beacon
Distant Dart
Savvy Fighter 4
D/R Far Save 3 (don't have A/S far save unfortunately, maybe I'll snag it when Takumi gets rerun if I'm lucky)
Spd/Def Ideal 3
With this setup in enemy phase on her own at 100% hp she gets up to an effective 60 speed, so she can get the DR condition of Savvy Fighter on anything up to 70 speed. Not the greatest benchmark with how the speed meta is these days, but it's still funny.
With a team I can push her up to about 75 speed depending on the comp when you include reins from allies and sheet/combat buffs without hurting the rest of the teams ability to kill things effectively, I like to run a lot of older units since some of my favourites got added to the game early on.
Optimal build? No. Build I have fun with? Hell ya
This is honestly just a build
FEH tryhards eating good cause of channels like this. Thanks Fehology guys👍😁
Thank you very much. I’ve been trying to get this one out for 3 months. It was such a pain. It’s good to hear it’s helping folks.
FLORA NUMERO UNOOOOOOOOO! Love the analysis as usual
I’m so happy I +10’d my Arden and have him fully blinged out with all the good skills. That HP stat is hilariously high on him even by today’s standards. Easily one of the best grail projects I’ve ever done!
Are you in the secret Arden chat in the FEHology discord? Message Illialidur if not.
Revisiting this now that Beast seal is a thing, I'll absolutely LOVE to test Caineghis and Fomortiis in SD and AR now that they don't need a team built around their transformation
Which armored units are up for refines next? I got my eyes on Gatrie because he's a thick boy lol
Finally, my biggest mistake finally pays off. Long ago I tried to make L!Alm +10 but instead I got 11 copies of Caineghis. Counter Roar makes him a super aggressive tank, not to mention that part of the help for the pots in AR.
As someone who invested into ascended fjorm on release, she has really only just started to fall off recently. She still has her place but the nukes have finally caught her up.
That null C disrupt though is soo good, even now with all the healers and sweep effects.
Little surprised Murdock wasn't mentioned at all, I think he's very good. The one I have has A/R far save and dunks on so many units
Was a shame there wasn't more to say about B!Edelgard or A!Idunn. I chose them to be my near and far savers respectively. Edel in particular is my first 5 Star Exclusive plus ten, and shes never let me down.
I wish I had more Idunn merges lol. I had to use my re armed Grima to get her Hardy Fighter, RIP
Im so tempted to pull for brave corrin right now, I love her speed and support. my current far save is bridal tiki and im having the dilemma abt replacing her because I don’t want to replace her so soon after spending so many orbs for her.
As an M!Grima enjoyer (simp) It hurts to see both versions of him soo low, but it's honestly soo understandable.
One's hard to merge up and the other is a better near savior.
Suddenly I'm very happy that V.Takumi spooked me in the free single. I have both him and B.Corrin at zero merges tho but at least I have some new tanks since I'm a returning player
Hit the jackpot with Rudolf, invested in him at his release.
Congrats!! You got a fantastic unit. 😊
Kinda curious on what pushes hardin so much over other dc armors such as l!tiki, also think that w!sothis is a bit low but otherwise great video! It's insane how much harder far save has become in the current meta imo
i tried so hard with W!Sothis. She has so many pieces that I really like. I think she's in the same boat as Anankos. She really needs some form of speed scowl.
@@FEH Agreed on the speed scowl part, can't wait for the skill to drop. I just love how null dragon effectiveness makes her immune to shez's swift slice.
I currently have both B!Corrin and Bridal Tiki. Is Bridal Tiki gonna be a good near save? I like them both. Will there be an updated near save list in the future?
I wonder if Mythic Veyle makes this video age poorly. Pardon me if that comes off strange. I would think drive scowl is something that can make any savior/godunit potent for the time being. Or maybe I’m wrong, Corrin needed scowl as well. Its just fun to watch these and see how specific units completely warp how player/enemy phasing is done.
As a +6 young Hector user, He’s so damn strong. He survives things he has no right too
> V!Takumi in tier 0
Oh how did this happen? Let's watch
> My friend with a +10 V!Takumi with tons of investment...
Well this is off to a great start starting off with a premise that tends to lead to weird results.
> Showing off this replay against a terrible SD team with the only relevant ranged nuke being one who Takumi specifically does really well against!
> Also we are considering him to have Scowl reliably active (pesky blue, green and colorless units don't exist!)
I get why it happened, but it really doesn't take a genius to figure out what went wrong in his evaluation here for him to appear seemingly out of thin air as top tier.
Edit: So, looking at the methodology for the outcome, the problem becomes even clearer.
Takumi's main weakness is brave attacks, AOEs and pre-charged specials from anything not Red.
We have one AOE unit on the test. His actual counters are completely unrepresented basically!
I’m right there with on being an ascended Fjorm apologizer. I still use her as a far save and I think she’s still stronger than most people give her credit. I catch a lot of people off guard by using her as a L! Veronica hard counter. People might say I’m trolling, but with just her basic kit and the hardy bearing seal she’ll destroys L! Veronica and a lot of other glass cannons. Their first hit bounces off with ice mirror and hardy fighter, than hardy bearing activates and she disrupt the desperation effect and kills them on her counter attack with her built in null c disrupt. I’m not saying she’s amazing and any unit in your tier 0 and 1 definitely better, but I still think she’s tier 2. Anything thanks for all the great content, it’s always very helpful.
As a bector enjoyer, I feel conflicted. Him not being tier 0 doesn't feel good, but on the other side for how old he is, it's kinda amazing.
I personally focus on AR and believe that survivability > doing damage back. Doing one job amazing > doing multiple jobs kinda halfassed. Not having dc in your weapon becomes kinda valuable thanks to the deflective seals. I haven't really tested armored beacon (no fodder), but for hardy fighter builds all good bectors run a non dc A slot like distant defense 4.
I liked the Kjelle propaganda, can't wait for her near save score and the svalin shield hopium
I was wondering where you would put Winter Hilda on this list, only to find out she is not even in it, lmao. The reason for my curiosity was because I was putting her through sims, and at max investment, she survives both Valentines Chrom and L!Hinoka at max investment (Chrom with a precharged Deadeye) but no extra buffs nor external support, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but she's the only fast Armor lance in the game right now, or atleast fast by today's standards.
And I dunno if I agree with Anankos so high, whenever I've fought him I've never have had that much trouble, and surprisingly enough, he can't take a Deadeye from Chrom despite having the color advantage. Scowl kinda prevents precharged specials, but as you said, until there's a Spd/anything Scowl, is kind of a hard sell for Anankos, especially because he needs to get DC from somewhere and sacrificing the spd you could get from the seal slot is already a huge compromise.
love forsyth and trying to pull a armored beacon for him and the min max on him helps too (prefer the near save though)
I can't put into words how much I dislike what they did with Brave Corrin, none of my units can kill her, it's absurd.
Awesome list bro. I had a bad time in chaos season with Corrin but probably because I didnt used the right supports. Debuff neutralization is crucial nowdays 😅
Great video ! I have never ever encountered a Takumi, now I'm super curious !!
I feel like Felicia and Lucina can do way better with a Hardy fighter build + a -1 CD support.
But if you had to rank units by considering every support you can give them, it would be so difficult that the video wouldn't have been finished before IS introduces Surtr's re-refine 😂
Anyway, Felicia is one of the units who uses merges the best as she relies one 3 stats (4 if you give her dc) AND has a visible stat check. Excluding Triangle Attacks support, my +10 only fears Chroms because of the precharged effective hits.
Enough with the Felicia favoritism, what is the build you gave to Brave Edelgard ?
Literally after CYL7 i have a really broken team thanks to it , since I get to stack buffs on nowi / soren + L!Ninian and B!Corrin , with a nowi and corrin with double save units in summoner duels, with +30/40 def/res xD
I knew it that V!Takumi is good!!! I was so confused when Tacho said he’s bad and can’t survive
I definitely missed it. I had to run the sims a bunch of times and check actual gameplay to make sure it was right 🤣
Seeing W! Ephraim and V! Robin so low kinda hurts, but they still do a great job for me, so thats fine for me.
The thing i realized just now is that if you only count Corrins unpiercable DR its basicly equal to B! Dimitris full Dr, thats a fun thought 👀.
Deep powercreep thoughts, my friend. That’s scary.
Great video, but you're wrong about Young Hector
He’s a fantastic unit! I’ve used him a ton. There are just a couple of armors that outperform him.
@FEH If you run him in sims against a lot of meta red units, then you're right indeed. But in reality, that's never the case, especially in higher ranks.
For example, when you use:
Brave Dimitri + Duo Askr + Fallen Maria + Young Hector + 2 Mythics
You would always place your units in a way that Dimitri tanks Legendary Veronica and Young Hector tanks Duo Shamir.
Sure, if you only want to judge 1vs1 and based on versatility, then Young Hector isn't the greatest cause red is by far the strongest colour in this meta.
But when you actually consider his team around him and realistic circumstances, then he's one of the best in his role. Although I would probably use Brave Corrin now as well.
I'm waiting for the null Counter disrupt support for Tiki and now with legendary Alear you can give damage reduction piercing to Corrin !
12:56 How can I be happy when I'm envious over the fact that Kjelle and Rudolf are higher than him?
Rudolf has a lot of folks being salty. I have no idea how he got such a good refine.
Thanks for a great video. Quick question: at 12:00 citrinne vs. seliph, how come miracle (from seliph's weapon or fallen maria) never triggered? I know she gets x4 attacks but he died in 2. I saw this in my own AR defense replay too (the ARO team tank died to 2 hits from my Chrom while supported by Maria); sorry this turned out to be more of a question re f: Maria than far save!
He got demolished from the first hit leading to one HP meaning that miracle triggered and then with the second hit he died
Only 2023 save units are meta color me surprised lol.
Still, I think basically most of these units are viable in AR-O, there with the blessings you're good to go, my AIdunn and RRobin combo tank almost everything, in SD on the other hand... yeah, that's a dolphin/whale ocean mode with no bonus stats and new toys all the time. It's very hard for an "old" bait unit to keep up.
It's a shame that Caineghis dropped from meta to 1 but he's still amazing, still waiting for that OP B exclusive to beasts to make him improve
Also I use him on SD and everyone is super afraid of attacking him with even the meta dominant threats like LHinoka or LShez, and he's part of my Light Core and again amazing performance, another benefit as an older unit is that his HP is huge so that gives a lot of survivality in general
He’s an excellent unit to this day. His refine is so good.
Where would Murdock land on this list? From a mostly F2P player I’m debating fully investing in him for score and pairing him with my near save Vigarde. Or do you suggest holding off since new units like Cyril can almost score as well while being a ranged infantry?
Is it smart to pair B!Corrin with a near savior tank? If so who are some good ones?
As someone who has a +10 A! Idunn, I was really interested to see the build and the results you got from her? Thanks
I will make og Black Knight work as a save I swear
Ok. I got you covered. Special spiral 4 and F!Maria. He might get blasted on the first hit, but he gets piercing black Luna in retaliation!!!
@@FEH I have a savvy build on mine right now but I'll Def try this if I ever get special spiral 4. Is special fighter 4 good for him like winter bk?
As someone with a F!R!F!Robin merge project who already foddered one Corrin for A/S Far Save and Floe, I'm not sold on Counter Roar 4
Yeah the damage deflection sounds nice, though I'm not sure why it's "before reductions" or what it means
But losing out on higher DR + Full NFU from Savvy 4 on a speedy unit for a higher damage output sounds like a losing gambit...
It makes sense on Corrin because she has NFU on her weapon, but Grima doesn't, and I've learned the hard way how important at LEAST Defensive NFU (from Hardy) is
I'm guessing the sims gave Counter Roar better overall results, but it definitely strikes me as a sims vs practice situation
Absolutely loved the video! Just thought I'd share that little thought
Also, as someone who uses +10 A!Fjorm as their only far save, "needs help" tier is completely spot on!
Im on my way to a +10 grima also. Whats your ideal builds for both far and near?
@@joanlopa15 Spd Refine Grima, Pivot (for convenience in movement), Armored Floe (even as Near, since it's just a good special that might save her from a ranged sniper on top), Prf A (You can add Scowl if you want the flexibility for PvE, but I'm waiting for Spd/Res), Savvy 4 (Full NFU is too good to pass on for a speedy unit trying to survive *and* kill), A/S Near/Far Save and either DC(D) or Atk/Spd Form for near (you'll want the stats)
Again, I have my doubts on Counter Roar 4, specially since Grima doesn't have Corrin's sheer bulk and full NFU to let go of Savvy, but if you're gonna max invest into Grima, you may as well give it to her anyways, since she can duplicate it, even if you don't use it.
Oh and a fun fact, pairing Hardy Fighter with Guidance 4 gives any armor full NFU as long as they outspeed while retaining the unpierceable Hardy nonsense, which is really fun on both Grima and Fjorm!
@@Ender_King09 i use Ra!robin with a guidance 4 user, do you think itd be worth still giving her savvy 4 instead just for the extra boost in speed (speed creep is so wild) and protection from brave attacks? just as a near save
@@blasagna1892 Near save gets weirder and weirder for Grima by the update, not only is speedcreep starting to leave her behind (Since she's rearmed, she's technically base 47 but has no superboon and only +5 from weapon) but Melee Threats are getting ridiculous, almost as if IS wanted to catch them up with ranged ones (Aside from Karla and Nanna, near saving was pretty chill a few months ago)
So frankly it's up to your team comp, if you have enough stat boosters to keep Grima up to speed and don't fear brave hitters, Hardy is way better whenever it works, since it can't be pierced by anything but 2 units. If you think your speed may need the extra help, Savvy 4 will reduce WAY less damage, can be pierced with NFU4, but gives you a better matchup against brave attacks and stats you'll likely need.
TL;DR: It's definitely worth having it on her, both for usage and duplication, but neither skill will prove better than the other reliably for Near Saving.
For far saving Savvy 4 is better since you HAVE to run Beacon or Floe, making hardy useless.
@@Ender_King09 thanks for the reply! definitely sounds like a good investment then, im desperately trying to get another copy of her from the hero fest so i can also give savvy 4 and a/s near save to v!lucina for favoritism purposes
I made my current acc during valentine Takumis banner. Got him +1 while going for duo Elise. There was an sds a couple weeks later and I had him on a hit and run team that everybody and their mother kept letting me use. That team got me all the way up to tier 17. A three week old acc hitting tier 17. It was insane man, nobody could beat him!
He’s so sneaky. I ran into a Takumi theme team that absolutely stonewalled me. I was left huddled and crying on the floor 😂
@@FEH at the time I thought it was just new unit catching people off guard admittedly, but yeah he is still holding up now with the optimal skills! He definitely needs all the new top stuff to shine though. I love using units like him that people aren’t familiar with seeing all the time
When you say rein, do you mean just reducing the opponents stats? I feel like usually when I hear people talk about reins that specifically means distance based ones that affect other allies combat, as opposed to what I've seen people call daunts, which I think is what you are calling reins.
My accidental Nagi at +10 is so amazing, im so happy she’s tier 1. I wanted to ask why is V!Hector so low? I don’t disagree or anything (I killed him off to give to my Nagi a while ago) but I remember he was top tier when he came out.
Loved this, think young hector should atleast be in teir 1 but thats my opinion 🤣 really hoping we see a Near Save list too in the near future 😄great quality upload as always dude 👊
I've seen Murdock tank things he has no right tanking. I wonder where he'd be on this list...
3:26 a +1 Merge (for *an* Savior) is a valuable what? Don't leave me hanging like that 😭
Sometimes my brain gets ahead of my mouth and to catch up, I skip words 😅
The idea is, every stat matters, and that first merge gives you 5 stat points.
I didn't see the builds you used for Ascended Idunn and Brave Edelgard! Anything surprising? I keep coming back to Black Eagle Rule for the 80%DR on follow up hits...
I really thought I added those in.
B!edelgard
armored beacon, black eagle rule, DR Far Save & Def/Res Form
A!Idunn
Armored Beacon, Atk/Res Scowl, Special Fighter 4, A/D Far Save, DC Seal
I never did get Bridal Tiki. After my L!Chrom one-shotted her, I decided she probably wasn’t good enough, so I skipped her. Also, my +1 Duo Shamir blew away a +10 Corrin in Aether Raids, so I’m not that impressed with her either. To me, a good far save needs to survive both of those, but I haven’t run into many yet that can.
V Faye not even here :(
What do you think of Deghinsea with arcane weapon? Tier 3 o 4 ?
Maybe 4, but he might be lower. It’s so difficult without a PRF right now 😞
@@FEH that is so sad. it is my favorite armored unit. thanks for reply
Does Ignatz not even make the cut? I don't really care about the unit, esp since B. Corrin came out, I'm just curious.
Honestly I forgot that armored takumi existed - didnt see him in quite some time.
I think you were pretty unfair with your Winter Marth placement, since he is indeed a meta pick for more than just SD. He's also amazing on defense, since he isn't phased by Bolt tower, works as amazing role compression on catria teams (Nuke and Far Saver), and hardy bearing isn't as commonly run on offense. He also doesn't care about guard and has flexibility in his builds. Top of tier 2 or bust.
Can’t argue with you on SD, but I use him extensively there. The new bulky nukes like duo Ymir handle him easily. Most teams have some form of hardy bearing or counter disrupt.
On defense, I’m always worried about speed based units. It’s just so much easier to stack speed on offense.
Not only is A. Fjorm much better than "tier 4" but I have plenty of replays in my channel to prove it.
Give Kjelle a resplendent skin, you cowards
Kjelle and Arden both!!!!
Hello! Flora is one of my faves and i would like to use her as my main Far savior in different modes. Soon enough will have another Hall of forms and i can get another copy of her (making her +5). I would like to ask, what is her best build that can i get? What teams can i make with her? Brave robin is a good support for her?
From the sims, Armored Beacon/Vengeful 4/DR Far Save did the best. This is a general build, though and you can be a little creative with the B and seal. As far as teams go, that’s a much longer explanation. If you look at @penrost ‘s channel, you’ll see a lot of good defense replays that involve her.
@@FEH many thanks!
Out of curiosity, why does Arden, statistically, preform better than Zephiel? Theres a few point difference in atk, spd and def, but like 10 hp vs res. Did Zephiel preform that much worse?
Im also a massive Arden fan, but between ZeShado ranking Zephiel better and just knowing their stats are very similar, thought id ask about your research directly
Lol, just the intro is hilarious a year later 🤣
Hardin is a tough sell for me on this list i have a similar build and he just keeps dying to everything lol whuch sucks because i've invested sooo much into him trying to make him be good
That’s a 30% survival rating for you. It’s a pretty huge jump to B!Corrin (68%) and she has trouble surviving things at times.
@@FEH I would probably swap him and A!Fjorm but she can do no wrong in my eyes even when she gets blown up lol 😁
Interesting list. My loyalty to Fallen Rhea compels me to ask why you simmed Counter Roar on her. When she fails in arena, it's always because she gets killed. Counter Roar wouldn't help with that.
And I must brag on her - she beat the new Corrin in a 1 v 1 slugfest.
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Your doing something wrong. If i can kill a +10 Brave Corrin with Arvel. Im sure anybody can. Alsooo Dragon and Armor effectiveness is everywhere, so she isnt a huge problem. And she is gonna fall off soon. WINTER is always more armors
I feel like summoning for a hero in FEH is like buying a car. It depreciates in value dramatically the moment you drive it off the lot.
Or your child choices in life.
Oh my gosh I got a free Valentine Takumi pill and I’m winning!! 😂
Nope, wrong, do it again. Ascended Fjorm Tier 2 easy at least. That ice mirror is too good. 😝
If only A!Fjorm got stats or something a bit more in her weapon, she wouldnt be so outclassed 😢 hopefully her refine in 2068 makes up for that
I’m sorry, but I don’t know how interpret this tier list.
VTakumi making tier 0 doesn’t surprise me when more than half the featured nukes are reds that rely on speed to do damage.
Why did you chose those 7 nukes? Why not include some tanky ranged units that are everywhere in the current meta (LRobin, NYAskr, SYmir, or even SShamir, Brammimond, or Arval)? Did you account for BCatria buffs at all? She is everywhere in both SD and AR, and not including her buffs is just negating the meta.
Then there is the skill tier list that seems to imply certain skills are more desirable, yet once you go to the builds, others are picked over them (buff negation on Caineghis or PFlora over other skills like Stances).
Then there’s Anankos running Savvy Fighter 4 and not Counter Roar 4, like the other speedy dragarmors). How come?
Nukes:
The list I had was actually much longer. These were picked because of a combination of popularity and whether they actually showed something. Ymir, Askr, and Robin don’t change the outcome of the rankings, so they weren’t included. They also don’t hit as hard as the units that were. Shamir & Bram are just hard to get good sim data out of.
Catria may be the meta, but she’s doesn’t change the rankings. I would argue that the only mode she really holds weight in is against AR-O opponents. In SD, if your opponent has Catria and they’re a decent player, your save will be defeated. She’s not a differentiator. When a savior is in AR-D, you’ll rarely face her. As far as the AR-O saviors go, you either beat Catria balls with support (F!Maria) or by outplaying them. It’s why the case studies are included.
The effects tier list is difficult for saviors, but I really wanted to drive home the point of which skills are building blocks. For many of the skills, it depends on how much of the effect you have, but it also depends on synergy. It’s hard to discuss these things without making the video several hours long.
For Anankos, savvy 4 did better on him. He really wants NFU as most speedy units do.
@@FEH thanks for the explanation! I don't think this is a list for me then. I don't play AR-D, and rarely use them on SD. A Far Savior built to survive is more of a PP tool (protect nukes) than an EP one (kill on retaliation). That's why tanky nukes are a problem for me, while not for the tier list.
In my opinion, the new units like Corrin that are absolutely broken is nice because that means a lot more of skills, more upgrades, and simply stronger units, but at the other side I think the game is becoming some repetetive, almost everyone has an arcane weapon and of course almost everyone has a crazy speed or crazy damage reduction, so I simply don't really like that kind of gameplay, I prefer that my units have their originals weapons that arcane weapons like everyone else.
Drive Scowl when
With the new Wind Claude pinwheeling as he pleases, every F-Savior unit is bottom tier. 😅
It was a good run while tiki was n1 savior
Why isn’t Murdock even mentioned, please throw F2P players a bone 😅