I am satisfied with what my +10 Gatekeeper got in his refine. I like many others had a bunch of outlandish ideas for his refine, but the few things that I was consistent no matter what in these ideas were. Attack shredding, true defense, more support, and passive healing. He got exactly all of that, including guard which I ain't even ask for. Let alone the ally healing which is just huge in terms of support. This reaches that exact sweet point I wanted the refine to reach.
…but does GK kill things? He looks impossible to take down, but he seems ho hum on offense, especially since I don’t see a guarenteed follow up (QR3 back in fashion for him, maybe?)
@@afiron4856 GFU is useless anyway. NFU is quite literally everywhere. Over 50+ per weapons/skills, 4 arcane weapons, 2 demote weapons, 2 C slot skills, a seal, a plethora of the basic B slot skills which is not only common in the pool but even available on an F2P unit, Hardy Fighter, and lastly the outliers in Fallen Lilith, and Duo Sothis. Like Duo Askr/Chrom no one relies on him doubling to kill. They rely on him one shotting. GFU is probably the 2nd most useless effect currently in the game. That being said GK doesn't need to be a worse Askr. All he needed to be was a better wall. Similar to Bridal Tiki and Ymir. Who both also have a hard time killing, but good luck getting trying to get through them. Fulfill a role that is much harder to fulfill. Which he does. Of course I have him +10 so my needs on GK are likely different from what a more common unmerged GK wants, but this kind of wall is exactly where those needs lie.
@@BocchiTheBox You're completely wrong about GFU. Half (offensive) NFU is still by far the most common form of NFU, which means, it does not hinder GFU. MNFU is a little more common now, but no one is running basic NFU3, and it's still largely a toss-up between that and SS4. One-shotting things works because these units actually have a free B slot to use SS4, Gatekeeper doesn't, so he's missing out on that huge defensive option that NY!Askr and D!Alfonse have, which is not getting doubled because they kill on retaliation, that's a huge part as to why they work as good tanks as mage units. A good offence is the best defence. Also, probably the most useless effect is Deny Follow-up. He is no wall. He doesn't have the huge amount of DR and Scowl that H!Tiki has, nor the massive DR and Healing that D!Ymir has, it's a massive difference in how they fundamentally work, nothing of which GK has. That 20% Def DR doesn't make a great unit, that's why Diamant is not a tank, it's merely a (better) Atk debuff. This would have been good if GK had this 2 years ago, but it's not. Units just deal so much damage that he still does not want to be on the frontline, so he's still going to fail at being a tank.
The thing was with Lyn and Veronica, they were top tier before the refine, so IS gave them the weakest refines if the bunch. Remember Ike and Hector had greatly fallen off and nobody used them, hence the superpowered refines. Great list, my friend!
As much as B!Dimitri gets complimented by everyone he absolutely deserves all of it. Still remember when I started about a year ago and got a off-banner Dimitri from some banner and all I thought at the time was... "Huh... Cool" -and that was honestly it. Then I learned what a 'refine weapons' was and (moreso) learned what this random Dimitri that I pulled was capable of. And he has been one of my most trusted and definitely overall THE most used unit ever since, allmost single handedly carrying me through all content pretty much. And the best part about all this is that my Dimitri doesn't exactly have the best IV's. He is +Spd/-Def. ...Minus ...Def. And even so I have not had much of a need to change that. I absolutely will, eventually, and I hope I can +10 him someday if for nothing else than to pay back to him even a little for everything he has done for my account. The man, the myth, the refine legend.
"i dont understand why they gave this unit deep wounds reduction" Because fatal smoke on duo lif and l!sigurd singlehandedly killed brave claude.b. He went from this obnoxious speedy tank who healed instantly all the damage dealt to him to a fly waiting to be swatted. Brave claude was the face of sustain tanking which fatal smoke hard countered
yeah fatal smoke was pretty much created to counter him more than anything else, and thank god it didn't become this "everyone must have it!" type of effect like damage reduction, or cooldown acceleration or claude would be useless nowadays
i really wish they got remixes to their personal skills... marth: make shining emblem give +6 to all stats to everyone grant treachery(true damage based on visible stats) and null panic or disables unit penalties, boost damage to 40% unit speed, heal 10hp after combat and grant all these effects to all allies. eiricka: moonlight bangle have canto, full tempo, special peirce dr (over luna gimmick it has) and inflicts penalty on foe atk/spd/def based on special cooldown value +4 and if special cooldown more than or equal to 2 then special cooldown +1 per attack. marriane: maybe if requium dance triggers it can do some damage, grant ally nother action and the highest hp ally has no gravity happens once a turn. gatekeeper: keep things the same but if he moves like brave corrin gives a divine vein pallisade (grants +5 to all stats on tile and each tile is a defence terrain tile and foes have to expend 1 extra movement)
Pretty much agree with everything bar Gatekeeper and kind of Marianne? With Gatekeeper, he's undoubtedly someone that matches extremely well into the meta, moreso than most units, but I'm not sure if I'd bring him over Myrrh because of the omnipresence of red nukes. I was thinking he could work well with Brave Soren for Save shenanigans in SD, but that remains to be seen. However, one thing you didn't mention (I believe you didn't mention this, but someone correct me if I'm wrong), because his refine doubles down on bulk, if you're not a red unit, he works pretty damn well as a far saver with Canto Control, which can potentially be pretty oppressive to unprepared teams. Definitely a cool counterpick option, though I think he should be in Tier 1 for now. I think your assessment of Marianne is pretty good for the most part. My only small nitpick is when you said that you'd rather bring a dedicated dancer, with the example being Duo Peony. I disagree with this line of thinking, as it defeats the purpose of Marianne to begin with. Where her strength lies is that she's a dancer you bring alongside your dedicated one, not to replace it. Unlike SD, there's no action economy so getting a unit that can punch through saves and dance at the same time, *while not being seasonally locked* is to my knowledge (again, someone correct me if I'm wrong, there are like 1000 units in this game, I'm bound to miss a few lool) exclusive to her, making her pretty valuable, especially in Chaos season. I would also rank her as Tier 1 though.
ive gotta ask, what premiere red nukes is myrrh tanking? all of her built in dr is peircable and she has no insane fire power to retaliate with. On paper she sounds like a pretty mediocre tank even if she has "the right color"
@@BIGstonks Take these calcs with a grain of salt naturally, because there can be elements unaccounted for within a real match. First, I wanted to set a baseline, Legendary Myrrh at +1 with a +6 boost to her defense and resistance, her banes being +Def and +Res, +10 Dragonflowers, and Atk/Res Scowl being the only change to her base kit, due to Rhea being out for almost 5 months and being in a banner right now. So right now her kit should be looking like this: Godly Breath Sacred Cowl Atk/Res Scowl 4 Counter Roar 4 Warp Bubble Def/Res Form Seal (DC is largely irrelevant for the example MUs, I like it for the safe net of not knowing what I'll fight, so while I like the ability to abuse Counter Roar, them being so prevalent kinda makes it hard. You CAN use it as a safety net against units that don't have firesweep, just that these two MUs in particular are worse.) Under these assumptions, I pit them against similar ones for the nukes. (base kit Veronica and Legendary Hinoka, with Atk/Spd boosting seals, no visible buffs, no penalties, +Atk and +Spd boons, and +10 Dragonflowers,) I'll start with the bad news you were very likely expecting. She crumples to Hinoka. Flat out. Not even close loool, that unit is crazy. If Myrrh had Null C, I can imagine it could play out differently, but idk how to calc that, the duel simulator doesn't let me. As for Veronica, with the build above, she eats it fairly well, surviving at 28 HP. Of course this changes without Triangle Attack, but the whole point of Myrrh and Gatekeeper was to stop warping, increase chances of survival, and make abusing Triangle Attack harder due to the lack of warping. Again, I have to stress this out, this is just in a simulation, whether it plays out this way or not depends on a wild amount of variables, but being able to *at least* stand a shot at surviving against someone like Veronica is something I find valuable, though Gatekeeper definitely has his niche and I'll be testing him out later when I get the chance.
the myrrh vs gatekeeper debate i think was relevent before his refine, now he's the clear superior choice, as he can have warp bubble and canto control. And yeah you have to keep him away from red nuke, which is not that big of a problem, and myrrh have a similar if not worse problem in having to be kept away from every bow or dragon effective weapons in the game. Maybe once she gets her remix she'll probably become way stronger than him as powercreep at this point will probably be all over the place. But as of right now i don't see a reason to use myrrh over gatekeeper as he can be even more annoying than her with canto control and his also an amazing support with the pretty much free +5 to all stats and healing after combat for all allies, while myrrh can maybe sometimes do one or two fights if there's no falchion/naga/bow sneezing in her direction
Gatekeepers refine is pretty great it's perfect for supporting an AR Omni tank since it gives them +5 to all stats and the 7 Healing allows them to run something like Distant Atk/Spd Solo over Finish and still have healing so they don't get overwhelmed by damage on top of also having warp bubble and Bulwark from his B to protect the backline and keep the Omni tank from being overwhelmed by every unit on the enemy team in 1 turn from things like guidance and then the Flat DR he gets allows him to survive much better when he does need to take a hit and for SD it can force the opponent to commit a strong unit to take him out giving the rest of the team a better position to strike the enemy team from also you can give him Flare so that he can better heal himself in the event he has to take multiple combats and for AR His weak offensive ability is somewhat to his benefit since he can just sit there in AR and distract a unit while the rest of the team gets the pots/deals with the rest of the team I think his refine is the most divisive in terms of how good people think it is since a lot of people who are disappointed with Gatekeeper's refine seem to be the people that wanted him to be a better combat unit while the people happiest for the refine are those that saw him as a support and like that his refine makes him better at what he was already doing
As an avid Gatekeeper user, I only used him as support with Canto Control or Inf.NFU (depends on team) and I’m extremely happy with his refine. Better support and bulk were the only things I wanted
I feel Marianne might be much better than we give her credit for right now, mostly cuz she would play very different roles depending of the game mode you are in. She seems to be versatile enough to be either an unorthodox dancer, an AoE spammer or a regular nuke, the only problem is that she can't be all of them at once.
I expected a lower ranking for Gatekeeper, so I was pleasantly surprised to see otherwise. My L!Alear was coming up just a bit short of tanking some AR maps, but with GK support, she truly becomes a force to be reckoned with.
Claude is the one CYL unit I don't know what IS thought when making his refine. It feels all over the place to me. Parts of his refine scream that he wants to be a nuke, while other parts say he wants to be a tank. When it comes to the other losers of their respective batch it was pretty clear that IS wanted their refines to be bad. But Claude just feels awkward. I've already really liked B!Marth before his refine. I think he aged phenomenally thanks to new skills like Time's Pulse 4 and NCD4. The one thing about him I didn't like was that his conditions for his weapon felt really awkward to activate and it was the one thing I hoped IS would change about him in his refine. I personally think he already was a T1 unit pre-refine and honestly I don't think his refine changed much. He's just a bit better than before, but nothing too crazy. Overall I think I like Marianne's refine the most this batch. She pretty much got everything she wanted and even more. Just Slaying and a Tempo effect would have been enough for her to be an absolutely amazing Galeforce unit.
Brave Claude was always intended to be a hit and sit unit. You go in, get 1 kill, and then tank the rest. His refine gave him everything he had previously lacked to make that work. I know people will point to no defensive nfu, but he doesnt care if he gets doubled because he always heals all the damage back with his counterattack. The null fatal smoke is becahse fatal smoke is whag made the unit fall off the face of the earth to begin with
Gatekeeper folds vs any combat but his support is so good it doesn't matter. Long range +5 support, healing, denying catria ball warps is waaay to good
Denying Catriaball warping only works well if he's on the frontline, which he can't be because he's dogshit in combat. It's not like he stop any movement or anything, again, wants to be out of combat range which also means not making use out of his Bulwark. He doesn;t prevent Triangle Attack, so the foe can, you know, just move normally and still setup, which Gatekeeper will do nothing against. Omni+5 and Healing is really nothing support against other actual support units, who also have the benefit of actually having a combat presence too.
B!Roy had a legitimate niche over +10 eliwood since he has less bulk so it’s easier to fall into WoM range. I have a +10 eliwood but find I used to use +0 B!Roy instead on maps where I needed to fall into WoM range and there weren’t enemies strong enough to get me there
Im loving gatekeeper refine in ar - o. Him and my L Guinevere giving my savior tanks +14 healing. And both of my Saviors allready have passive healing so they are getting a total of +21 healing after combat
Really glad i got that stacked B!Marth from hall of forms :') was really counting on him jumping spaces in the omni/godsword ranking, but it is just sorta nice
tbh, these refines looks tame for me...only Marianne refine that looks good Eirika need DR pierce GK...man, i want him having GFU Marth is okay Itsuki is eh Mirabilis...well, IS make her to be a combat unit again instead of full support Hel...the one interesting for me is her Inevitable Death+
For Brave Gatekeeper, just give him the QR3 Seal, that's it, otherwise he has everything he needed now, both increased Support and good defenses to survive the enemy, he'll be annoying the enemy *A Lot*
GK was always made as support. He can do a bit of damage if you really flex, but his value is what he does to teammates. GFU would have been nice, but if he split his identity between kinda support and kinda offense, he'd be mediocre and bad for it
Prett good list Joel and honestly I would have ranked most of them exactly the same (at least tier-wise), with three exceptions: Edelgard, Lyn and Eliwood. Feel like Edelgard should be tier 0, even above Gatekeeper, cause I feel like the day we got more anti-Warp things he will fall of, while Edelgard is still one of our best Near Save units in the game even with her unfavourable color. Sure she was not a „from zero to hero“ unit as most of the others in tier 0, but well she basically was the only CyL 1-4 unit that at time of her refine was still a high or even top tier unit and maybe got not that comparably much because of it but unlike Lyn or Veronica she got exactly what she needed and make her even better in her role and versatility can’t be a malus for her, cause most in tier 0 has/had exactly one role and probably with the same builds on every single version of every single player in the world (especially Ike and Hector). She should be up there honestly. With Lyn I feel like she was really dominant at her time, like Veronica was but maybe because of it and overall bad refines at that time they got one both got equally shafted. The refine was a coffin nail for both of them and therefore I feel like Lyn needs to go to tier 4 just like Veronica because I don’t think using Lyn with anything else than what’s is her own stuff and THEN maybe being better should justify a higher rank and I think even at the time of her refine there already were better alternatives just like with Veronica. And Eliwood, if max invested would probably right in tier 2 nowadays especially with Eirika actually not turning out that great as it was hoped. But the thing is at the time he got his refine, he became better but I remember it as it was yesterday it was stated that he basically is not that worth at all, cause Brave Eirika was just released the month before an was better in basically everything compared to Eliwood and because you mainly take consideration of their upgrades when it happens I feel like he should go to tier 3, sure the top of it, but if you argue for Eirika that we recently got so many amazing Cavs… it of course also count for Eliwood and honestly for him we not even have better Cavs, but also better dragon killers than him. Beasts … fair, that is his niche not many other can do, but I don’t know if that overall justifies tier 2 tho. But I guess overall these are just minor nitpicks and after all it is YOUR list, so it’s fine. ^_^
Excellent video as always. Sad to see my one time main, Ephraim, ranked this low but I can't even argue with that. Could I ask where you got that Speed Build Dimitri around 10:00? I'm not quite understanding the Special rotation. It seems to focus on a strong Vital Astra counterattack but doesn't cycle to use the DR portion.
I personally feel that Brave Edelgard is the best CYL unit to this day. I get so much use out of her in every game mode and as a near save there is really nothing that can one round her outside of S! F! Shez who I never see. My Marisa can take down a Brave Dimitri while I have had Edelgard in arena tank a +10 Fallen Byleth and win the exchange (granted it took around 15 turns to do so)
IS usually give weaker refines to units that were top tier before the refines and stronger refines to weaker characters, for exemple Ike when he first came out was meta for 1 month, his only purpose was countering reinhardt, while lyn was THE meta, being the only bow cav in the game for a long time, the second one valentine roy had drastically different stats than her making his role totally different and lyn still being the best of the two. Roy and lucina were the forgotten child so they decided to make lucina into the best support in the game at the time and roy into one of the best sword cav but they ruined it by giving access to his top tier refine to 3/4* eliwood and to add insult to injury eliwood got his resplendent soon after. It would've been a tier zero refine if we allowed eliwood in the debate veronica was top tier because applying buffs to teamates and debuffs to foes at the same time made huge differences at the time and would make the difference between you dying and you getting the kill, also healers were at their prime with the razzle/dazzle combo not having any counter. And so instead of giving her an effect to make her better at what she did (+6 buffs and -6 debuffs instead of +/-4 ; mystic boost and/ or null c counter ; pannic smoke etc.) they gave her this weird and weak (even at the time) drive and rein effect. And well everyone else from tier two were pretty forgetable at the time compared to her, hector was just doing his usual hector stuff, celica was doing the same thing as og alm's refine but slightly better, and ephraim was here. so they all got pretty strong refines, oh, and ephraim got a refine too. year 3 alm was concidered the worst of the bunch, being a falchion user in a see of falchion user, his refine gave him this unique perma +1 movement to make him stand out wich worked out pretty great, micaiah was the strongest of the 4, debuffs were still a big deal at time and if i remember harsh command+ didn't exist so we didn't have many ways to counter them but it was mostly thanks to the dual effectiveness, back in the days just having that on her weapon would've made her top tier, and she got the weakest refine too, but managed to stay somewhat relevent, and guidance 4 managed to make her still as relevent today, eliwood was a good niche pick and his refine made him a better niche pick, and camilla is interesting, when she came out she wasn't as powerfull as veronica, people would even say that veronica from the year before was still stronger than her thanks to being a cav and the buff/debuffs difference making, and her refine didn't really made her any stronger, she was more usefull sure, but that's about it, we had many better healers in the mean time so just putting gravity on foes is kinda meh, but she was saved and became imo the strongest of the 4 thanks to holy panic making her effectivelly inflicting -6 to every stats and panic on foe, poetic justice making her hit like a truck and of course guidance 4 making her instant top tier support material year 4 was the "fairest" of the cyl imo, they were all pretty similar in terms of power level, dimitri fell out after a while so he got a huge power boost in power with his refine and the actual "god unit" meta really complemented his playstyle, and deep wound was created to counter claude always healing 20+ hp each fights, making him unkillable, so him countering his counter is neat. Edelgard and lysithea were seen as the strongest of the 2 and their refines made them better at what they do year 5 was seen as a joke, gatekeeper and marianne despite being first were garbage at the time, gk being niche and lacking many effects to make him a good tank, and warping was pretty much nowhere to be seen so the effect was pretty useless, and marianne was also pretty niche, and was lacking kill power, special acceleration, and her niche use was easilly countered by guard, while marth and eirika followed what was meta at the time they had nothing unique and still don't. But i was hoping that it would be temporary and that GK and marianne's uniqueness would make them relevant for a longer time while marth and eirika would eventually fall down with their meta, and boy was i happy with the refines, marth and eirika got uptated effect to find a place in the current meta (not being the top tier of their archetype tho) while GK and marianne got huge boost making their unique effect stronger and easier to use, especially GK warping being so meta RN made his niche and funny B skill into a meta counter, and canto control works so well on him too! he's like this annoyance to the oposing team always being in their way when they try to do stuff, wana warp? nope, wana canto? nope, wana attack a threatening unit behind gatekeeper? Nope, have to kill him first. people started using pass on their flying nuke just to be able to go through him in summoner duels (also because fliers don't have much good options for B skills beside canto but since it gets completly nullified by GK, pass is a surprisingly good skill to run)
B!Eliwood hits like a truck 👌I have my forma +2 on one of my AR teams to counter whenever the enemy has 2 or more dragons or beasts. And beast effectiveness is rare to come by
It’s not really to surprising when you look at it from a business standpoint. IS gains nothing from giving strong refines to the units people are already using, but if they give great refines to units that are popular but rarely used, a lot of people that never bothered to pull for them aboriginals will start to spend their orbs. Traditionally, the female division winner has had the strongest kit on release. Being popular, strong, and a pretty woman, a lot of people +10 them right away. Meanwhile the men’s winners tend to be decent but a bit underwhelming. The fans pull a copy or two and there will always be a few that +10 purely for favoritism, but most people never bother. Recent CYLs have been a bit non-traditional in regards to which units are strongest on release, from CYL 5 giving 2nd place the strongest weapons, to the most recent CYL making the men arguably more unique so it’s hard to say what will happen from here, but the traditional pattern is simply powered by money.
because female units are pretty much always the strongest units from the banner on release, so when the refines comes around, they eihter think they don't need too strong effect because they're already good or they are scared of giving them too strong effects because they could counter the new and shiny units they want you to spend money on. Meanwhile the guys often gets powercrept in the following two months so they feel like putting strong effects on them will maybe convice people to +10 them
I had mixed feelings on GK, since I was hoping for more support, but then I realized his support is all drives, meaning it can't be shut down by False Start (which will come back, MARK MY WORDS) and the healing can't be shut down by Severance either since it's after combat. He actually took the best aspect of his kit, which was that it CANT be shut down unless he dies (mostly) and did the most with it, while also making it harder for him to die Brave Marianne is to me the UNDISPUTED winner of this batch and falls far more in line with the male winners of the last 3 years, getting everything you wanted and then a bit more? Yessir! So my ranking goes Marianne/GK/Marth/Eirika, with Marth and Eirika being both drowned in competition and creep, Marianne and Beeper did what we always knew they would, age better! Also thanks to Soren the Savior Beeper dream is REAL and I couldn't be happier.
bit disappointed in Brave Eirika's refine, only thing I really wanted with her was DR piercing, or ult piercing for AR-O. Speed is nice, I guess, but as a tank buster, I don't think she hits the mark anymore with how much DR there is everywhere
It is.. so you really need to run her with instant Luna, she kill everthing in 1 hit even an AD Unity with L.Robin B. Edel. Can't 1 hit most of the hardy though. All the god sword can be handled though.
It does stack, but it does multiplicatibly, so Marianne having 50% DR piercing + Magic NFU does not mean you get 100% DR piercing, it would instead be 75% DR piercing, which is still pretty good.
My summoner support, slot one team one favorite unit who stands at the top of the Home Screen with me is still my +10 Eliwood, Roy’s refine game him so so much, and I still spoil him with new skills and he pulls his weight across the game for me
I'm gonna disagree with most everyone on Eirika. She is insane against all armors and cavalry. All she needed to fill her kit was added, plus a ton of stat buffs.
I dunno, I was feeling mostly underwhelmed by these refines. Like, none of them got a bad refine, but the CYL heroes I don't think really improved all that much with maybe two exceptions, Marianne and GK and even then it's not a Brave Dimitri situation where I can see these units going from never used to omnipresent. I think the people who used them already will keep using them and everyone else will ignore them. Marth still has a vantage effect he doesn't really use all too well without special investment of like Phys. NFU or Spiral 4 or something and he has no protection for him or his team against penalties which I think is important because all his relevant effects kinda require he and his team have buffs. Eirika wants to try and outspeed her foes to deny them Dodge skills and things like Vital Astra and Godlike Reflexes, but still has no way around other forms of damage reduction. She really wanted to outright pierce that stuff with her special but she's not gonna get that. Marianne got pretty much everything she needed and now she can be consistent in her niche as a nuke you can bring alongside a dancer who can keep refreshing the dancer for herself and others and got some true damage and Reduction-reduction to make up for not having a damaging special. Gatekeeper has some better support and better frontlining potential, but his green color is going to hold him back, because if he dies than the support he provides is null. He's like a weird mix of backline support effects with a wide range that also wants to be in the front of the team (why else would they give him Obstruct, if not to block enemy access to your team?)
You got the icon for Garm's refine wrong, and put Roy's icon instead. This next one is a very slight nitpick, but you had Eliwood's lance labelled as Ninian's Ice Lance instead of the in game spelling, Nini's Ice Lance, which is a heinous crime. The name is too cute to not get right.
Question, Alarm Atk/SPD on Erika when Moonlight has Canto? Not a slight or anything, but I guess Cavs really don't have skills if we stacking Canto now👁️👁️
I have to disagree on B!Marianne, she is a top tier and very flexible unit. She will age way better than everyone else from CYL5, including the overrated Gatekeeper, and it must be noted on her refine. Support roles age better and endure some of the huge powercreep the game had last 2-3 years.
i agree with your take on marianne and i think she's pretty powerfull right now being able to refresh dancers. But GK is far from overrated??? You said it yourself supports age better and can endure huge powercreep, his pretty much free +5 to all stats and after combat healing already makes him one of the best support, he also inflict -15 atk/res on foe, follow up negation, and true damage reduction based on his defense, and after combat healing to making him difficult to kill for non red nuke. and the warp bubble + canto control is just too good at countering the current meta of constent warp into canto, there's no denying that
@@aqualacerta3961 L!Male Robin and B.Catria/W.Cordelia-balls teams are a good way to get rid of GK. Also, his healing isn't really an issue do deal with him. The problem os to Enemy Phase him. Trap/allure him on PvE content, Play EnemyPhase/DualPhase teams on SD, Arena he isn't very common. He is only good at SD and AR-D. As I said, on SD he is not really an issue, as thereare bigger threats. The only place he really shines is AR-D.
@@aqualacerta3961 L!Male Robin and B.Catria/W.Cordelia-balls teams are a good way to get rid of GK. Also, his healing isn't really an issue do deal with him. The problem os to Enemy Phase him. Trap/allure him on PvE content, Play EnemyPhase/DualPhase teams on SD, Arena he isn't very common. He is only good at SD and AR-D. As I said, on SD he is not really an issue, as thereare bigger threats. The only place he really shines is AR-D.
@@jonassilva2099 no the oposite, GK totally shuts down catria's balls team by removing their way of aproaching, he isn't an offensive threat at all, but he enable the offensive threat of your team to be safe. Forcing the oponent to aproach normally allowing you to take them out one by one with your nukes. There's a reason why many people started running pass on their flyers in SD. And yes GK is better in AR (not just defense as offensive warping défense teams are also all over the place) and SD and? That's two good modes to be good in (if not the 2 best and most relevant). And pretty much every units aren't good everywhere. BMarianne gets popped easilly in AR-D, her dance is at Best very situational to totally useless on SD and doesn't score well and is again easy to pop in arena. That doesn't make her bad in any way. GK forcing the oponent to play differently from what they wanted already makes him good by défault
lol wind sweep was not better than savages blessing back then because nfu was still locked to cavs mostly and was still pretty rare. But her refine was definitely pretty lackluster, most likely due to IS not wanting to make her dominate the meta again. They also ended up doing this against to B!vero and her wack refine Also, Ephraim back in the days of the L!sigurd cav meta, could take him on and kill him. He could also was one of the few armors who could scrap with and take on B!Erika at launch, Eli wood with his refine etc. He was an excellent near save with such a simple refine, just thanks to the auto follow up, half of nfu, and healing. Hardy fighter and save ball support did the rest of the work. Nfu didn’t really hurt him as much, since the mega cav Nikes didn’t automatically come with it yet during that era or B!Erika’s era. I definitely think he was at least tier 2, he put In so much work, but people always rank him much lower than he deserves because of B!hector, which is a bit unfair I love this blast from the past tho, seeing all these old cyl units
Personal opinion on these 4 is none are stand out exceptional. Dimitri on release was insane. True DR + BLR, dude was crushing it. Here, all 4 still have an issue. Marth DR piercing and NCD. Eirika is strong, but the rate powercreep is going, her time is limited; theres no "unique" effect to make her last. Gatekeeper doubled down on support. As a green tome. We already have Citrinne, MRobin, and Soren. Those three double as relatively competent nukes as well; GK does not. Marianne is the winner of the whole batch, as Requim Dance is the unique pazzaz to make her last. But i dont know if she'll have the stats to work as a nuke going forward. Basically think IS went very tame with these refines, and, especially since these are by definition fan favorites, they could have pushed the bar quite a bit further and no one eould have cared
I think it's good for what it is. Remember she's on AR-D so we can't control how the AI initiates battle sometimes. If for some reason she did attack instead of dance, she at least has flash smoke and basically stops the enemy team from attacking that turn which will let your defense team to hopefully wipe them out
Well you knew this comment was coming. Here's what i do agree with: 1. You WILL get bashed over the head for this :) 2. He's not meta impactful. Even though he's been amazing all this time, i nearly never see any b!marths except mine. And I dont think this refine will bring a surge of B!Marth users either unlike the previous 0 to hero cyl refines. Especially when the general reception is "nearly nothing changed". If thats the main reason for putting him in the same tier as like Micaiah and Celica, then I have no qualms. Here's what i dont agree with: Marth is an AMAZING omnitank in a sea of amazing omnitanks. I'm still not sure what exactly makes people rate F!F!Byleth as the amazing omnitank, but Marth as the weak one. What makes it fair to place Byleth high but Marth in the middle? Is it the skill investment? Its true that Marth is gonna need a fair amount of skill investment because basically everything but his weapon on his base kit is not good enough in this meta. But that is also true for B!Dimitri who is usually rated higher than or just as high as Byleth. If Bimi gets the proper kit overhaul to outpace Byleth, shouldn't Marth as well? Is it speed? Byleth was faster than Marth before his refine (this is not the case afterward), but i dont think she was so far ahead that Marth was several tiers below her. Now with the amount of speed (and other stats) that Marth gets with his proxy Bonus Doubler he surpasses Byleth. But he's still considered just "pretty good" and Byleth is above him? Is it just Divine Pulse? Divine Pulse is an amazing special and easily leagues over Shining Emblem. But in reality, even Divine Pulse has major vulnerabilities. Neither Shining Emblem nor Divine Pulse do ANYTHING when the Hardy Bearing DR Piercing nuke comes around. Both are going to need to be replaced with GLR for those situations if you want Marth or Byleth to be on their A games. And if youre not in that situation, then they both almost always sweep the defense. Marth definitely has better bulk, Marth has a vantage condition that will almost certainly be unbeatable even as speed creep grows further, he now has Tempo which is HUGE for consistent GLR looping, he also has built in DR. What else does he need to have in order to be considered an Amazing omnitank instead of just "very good"?
Isn't gatekeeper's supports gets shutdown by feud aside from healing and the warp bubble? I think putting him on tier 0 is not appropriate at all. I still think Legendary myrhh is still better at him when it comes to anti warping because shehas access to a lot of skills such as scowl and guard bearing 4.
Issue is that feud doesn't come up all that often compared to stuff like oaths and what not. As it stands, its unlikely he's gonna run into trouble due to feuds.
@@Bowserboy129 Fair enough. But I still think his refine is not comparable to Brave Dmtri and BraveHector when it comes to refines. Those two are meta shifters and gatekeeper is not because his main usability in on his b skill not because of his refine. I doubt you would replace Citrine and legendary male Robin over him at all. Also I know it's rare for units to equip feud skills when there are other options, but I just remembered that we have free green feud fodder on the manuals so that can be an option.
@@kakayama2577 He isn’t replacing LRobin or Citrinne, but he is replacing Celine, which is one of the best supports for omnitanks right now. GK with Inf. NFU offers more to the team than LMyrrh. A side note. How are you using Citrinne? I find her a lot less valuable than other supports like LRobin, LEliwood, BRobin, or even Celine, as I can usually get the buffs on the tank in the first place.
I agree with most except GK and Marianne´s placing, yes GK got good stuff, but GFU with that speed and how abundant NFU is now days adds little to almost nothing to him, the Flat DR is cool, but I believe now a days isn´t enough just look at Diamant he has 25% and he is just dying to the most common nukes and GK is green like the worst colour the healing is fine I guess and yes there is warp bubble, but that hasn´t been that relevant, in the end there is no real reason of taking GK in your team unless he is your fav Marianne on the other hand got exactly what she neede to work as she is intended to work, sure the refine didn´t add new niches to her but at least make her niche consistently slaying and tempo is amazing for her role I actually believe she is the actual winner of this batch not that she gets to tier 0 but definitively higher than GK
"Warp bubble hasnt been relevant" lul what game modes are you playing, Arena? You run into so many catria balls in AR its unreal, and with the introduction of Frejr you run into them IN BOTH SEASONS, rally traps are a thing, guidance 4 is a thing, bro??????
I think the core difference between gatekeeper and Diamant is stats and usage, Gatekeeper has an actual res stat and his major usage wont be as an omnitank as much as it will be bulky support. Not to say hell be the best but he has a more distinctive use. I do agree with Marianne though I think people are largely underestimating her, and while yes she has alot of tank buster competition, many of those competitors have been premium/seasonal units whilst marianne has been easy to merge for fans of the character. Not to mention her unique offensive presence via requiem dance is now alot easier to use.
@@mercy144 the only one with warp bubble that has been relatively used is Myhrr and she hasn’t been that prominent or really an issue, I’ve seen more bullkhart users than warp bubble, Exactly Guidance4 has been so prominent that it’s odd warp bubble hasn’t been use much, maybe now with his refine we will see it more but even then I don’t think GK refine is better than Marianne he still has so many ways around it and nukers now a days are nasty strong
All the refines for this batch were very underwhelming. Gatekeeper didn't really improve much. The additional +5 to defenses and the healing after combat for allies is nice, but its not the best support option out there. Robin's Rally Spectrum offers more value with it's cooldown reduction imo. His combat potential got better with the -15 to the foes Atk/Res and the 20% Def based dr, but not by much. Reducing two hits by like, 10 doesn't mean a lot when things hit really hard nowadays. Denying and guaranteeing follow ups really doesn't mean much when NFU is so prominent, but giving him a guaranteed follow up would've helped I guess. And sure, Ignis or Bonfire's off of his defense will hurt... but speed and resistance based DR characters laugh at the prospect of eating that hit. The only way to boost that damage would be to ally support him with the new Legendary Alear, otherwise you'd have to replace his gimmick B skill for Spiral 4 or Mag NFU. Using GK as a far saver sounds terrible btw. There are plenty of ranged units who'll annihilate him. Soren has a better shot at taking on ranged units than GK. Nothing has really changed with GK. You're just going to bring him for anti warp and nothing more. Marianne definitely improved. An accelerated weapon, null guard, cut DR in half, more first hit DR for herself, its nice. I don't like using her, but only because you could just field a strong support dancer instead. You don't neuter your offense units with Gravity like Marianne does, and you could get good buffs or debuffs or even another action for your dancer so they can fight. At that point, it's just a matter of whether you want to use her gimmick. Marth didn't get much. Null Guard is nice, but you could just use Time's Pulse 4 to mitigate it completely. His weapon still plays around buff totals, but they didn't give him a way to get Null Panic to himself or his allies. The new bonus to his stats and first hit DR are nice but he's not competing against Alear or any of the godswords that have come out since his release. Even Legendary Marth is better tbh. Eirika... they didn't do much with her. Dull Atk/Spd/Def, debuffing said stats dependent on unique bonus totals, and the rest of NFU. No other form of DR for herself, no pierce DR, nada. They didn't try at all. Guess we'll just have to wait for his next alt which will be super cracked. Last year's batch of refines was so much better. Dimitri shot up so much, Lysithea became an actual good red nuke, Edelgard got tankier, and Claude outpaced Legendary Claude. This batch will just... exist. This feels like the CYL 3 refines. Just ok refines outside of maybe, 1 of them. In this instance, Alm and Marianne's refine.
Null guard is more for follow-up fire emblem, IS probably wanted to make more use out of b!Marths nfu so they added first hit Dr and null guard for potential follow-ups
How much of an improvement is Speed B!Dimitri over Defense B!Dimitri? I only play PvE so I don't know if It's so necessary to change his build (My B!Dimitri is +10, max DF)
Probably want oath instead for its warp, but if you're within 2 spaces of an ally, you get AtkSpd+3 during combat, separate from the start of turn +6 I'd argue just TimesPulse for vantage special spam is better, but it's not meaningless
This Brave GateKeeper ALWAYS MAKes sure that the opponents in A raids can collect all the pots. He is so tanky yet hits like a noodle. They gave Itsuki a GFU why not give one to this too? Oh well I'll still use him, he fkn +10. Oh another one, he needs Canto Control. If you dont have it, u pretty much should not use him hahaha. tried him with IP team with Times Pulse and instant bonfire, but u really need the Canto control. If not then u prob would want to use him on "OFFENSE" instead. Edit: *Also Marianne with Magic NFU is just busted, just Catria ball her and she will killllllllllll and refresh someone. *My B.Marth can't tank B.Eirika now LOL. SOOOO SAD.
I believe you were a bit too generous with GK. I don't think warp denial and Omni +5 is anything close to how impactful the other refines where (Bike was unkillable post refine, Bector is probably the unit that has stayed longest at the top of the meta, and Bimitri is his basically his challenger). Moreso, I think myrrh may be a better pick than GK in some compositions (mainly when used with Linoka). I more or less agree with the rest of the ranking.
Imma bop with on a different unit. As a B!Claude super fan what is he tier 1 in lmao. I make him work because he’s my fave but as a nuke and as a tank he’s not great at all.
Just with those two 1-(1-.8)*(1-.3) = 1-.2*.7 = 14% damage taken If you mean the damage reflection, ALL damage reduction counts, be it flat DR, specials, dodge effects, it all counts
At the end of day he's the only unit this latest batch that has specific role and usage in the meta. The warp meta won't stop so his usage maintains. Now let's just add the support that now he brings and you'll see a long time usable support. If warp meta falls then he does as well.
Look, I know Oath 4 and Pledge are both redundant on Lysithea and thus equal, but PLEASE DO NOT WASTE A WHOLE ALEAR ON HER. As a B!Lys enjoyer I have Oath 4 on her, and until they release something which DOESNT overlap but still gives Atk/Spd+3, that's still her best option, since you could pair her with Alear and give her the DR piercing she's missing instead! Also I refuse to run Flare, not only does it not pierce DR but it can potentially disable her weapon in VERY specific scenarios and Dragon Fang is still better, fight me >:(
Strong disagree with needing to speed stack Dimitri. Going full bulk monster has been crushing everything for me. Especially with the speed creep this year he doesn't have as much business trying to fight that battle, just like how Ike fell off in that department.
Brave Gatekeeper is too high, the refine isn’t good enough for people to run him outside AR O, he can’t nuke at all and dies to every other nuke out there, the true DR isn’t saving him. The support is really good but not tier 0 worthy. Also put Brave Marth in tier 3, I have a +10 Brave Marth and I gotta say that it’s just not good enough to have him compete against any of the newer red Omni tanks
Yeah, sucks that he can barely compete in the Omni tanking role. However, have you tried the SS4 vantage tanking role? He seems to do it much better now as he consistently get +25 atk or higher
@@BIGstonks depends, I have distant pressure, atk/spd finish and unity in the A, close call and special spiral 4 in the B, and spd smoke 4 and times pulse 3 in the C. So I switch between those when I need them. I think his biggest issue is that he can’t run Nul C and damage reduction piercing at the same time, not to mention most of his kit is killed when hit with feuds or Lulls
I hate Marth's refine so much. Not only does he get barely anything, not only have the others genuine better refine helping with there problems, not only is he not one of the best in the sword inf. class/ god sword class, not only does he not get DR piercing, the one thing I might add, that he truly need to be good at this point and time, NOT ONLY has he comp. with Fallen Byleth, one of the best vantage units, next to Altina, who also has a TRUE DR damaging special with TD on top of that, but to make it worse, the effects he got are just Mythic Sothis refine and remix in modern time. BOTH got first hit DR, stats, null guard, and a bit better healing to finish it of.... As a +10 Brave Marth user, I think I can understand how you felt 1 year prior with a refine that is just barely helpful to your fav., that you want to say frick you IntSys at there headquarters. He just needed DR piercing, just that and nothing really else but I guess they want us to summon on that shiny, new unit called L'Alear to get that or Special Spiral 4, a skill that is in my eyes, a high commitment is.
Fun Fact I learned today. Brave Gatekeeper's refine does NOT give him 3 extra HP. Regardless I'm definitely happy with his refine and use him a ton in summoner duels because guidance and warping is terrifying. Brave Marth with Time's Pulse 4 is brutal now. He gets to now activate Shining Emblem twice per combat if he can double thanks to null guard and now I don't need to wait for Velocity 4 as a B skill. The extra DR in his weapon rocks since I now can confidently run NCD 4 in his B slot which has proven to be extraordinary in AR-O.
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It's over. We lost Joel to the Gatekeeper cult.
He's joined the dark side 😭 We need to pull an intervention stat!
I am satisfied with what my +10 Gatekeeper got in his refine. I like many others had a bunch of outlandish ideas for his refine, but the few things that I was consistent no matter what in these ideas were. Attack shredding, true defense, more support, and passive healing. He got exactly all of that, including guard which I ain't even ask for. Let alone the ally healing which is just huge in terms of support. This reaches that exact sweet point I wanted the refine to reach.
Thank you for the super thanks!! He did well. You should be happy with your +10 monster. 😊
…but does GK kill things? He looks impossible to take down, but he seems ho hum on offense, especially since I don’t see a guarenteed follow up (QR3 back in fashion for him, maybe?)
@@afiron4856 GFU is useless anyway. NFU is quite literally everywhere. Over 50+ per weapons/skills, 4 arcane weapons, 2 demote weapons, 2 C slot skills, a seal, a plethora of the basic B slot skills which is not only common in the pool but even available on an F2P unit, Hardy Fighter, and lastly the outliers in Fallen Lilith, and Duo Sothis. Like Duo Askr/Chrom no one relies on him doubling to kill. They rely on him one shotting. GFU is probably the 2nd most useless effect currently in the game.
That being said GK doesn't need to be a worse Askr. All he needed to be was a better wall. Similar to Bridal Tiki and Ymir. Who both also have a hard time killing, but good luck getting trying to get through them. Fulfill a role that is much harder to fulfill. Which he does. Of course I have him +10 so my needs on GK are likely different from what a more common unmerged GK wants, but this kind of wall is exactly where those needs lie.
I also have a +10 gatekeeper so proud of my boy
@@BocchiTheBox You're completely wrong about GFU. Half (offensive) NFU is still by far the most common form of NFU, which means, it does not hinder GFU. MNFU is a little more common now, but no one is running basic NFU3, and it's still largely a toss-up between that and SS4. One-shotting things works because these units actually have a free B slot to use SS4, Gatekeeper doesn't, so he's missing out on that huge defensive option that NY!Askr and D!Alfonse have, which is not getting doubled because they kill on retaliation, that's a huge part as to why they work as good tanks as mage units.
A good offence is the best defence. Also, probably the most useless effect is Deny Follow-up.
He is no wall. He doesn't have the huge amount of DR and Scowl that H!Tiki has, nor the massive DR and Healing that D!Ymir has, it's a massive difference in how they fundamentally work, nothing of which GK has. That 20% Def DR doesn't make a great unit, that's why Diamant is not a tank, it's merely a (better) Atk debuff.
This would have been good if GK had this 2 years ago, but it's not. Units just deal so much damage that he still does not want to be on the frontline, so he's still going to fail at being a tank.
The thing was with Lyn and Veronica, they were top tier before the refine, so IS gave them the weakest refines if the bunch. Remember Ike and Hector had greatly fallen off and nobody used them, hence the superpowered refines. Great list, my friend!
As much as B!Dimitri gets complimented by everyone he absolutely deserves all of it.
Still remember when I started about a year ago and got a off-banner Dimitri from some banner and all I thought at the time was... "Huh... Cool" -and that was honestly it.
Then I learned what a 'refine weapons' was and (moreso) learned what this random Dimitri that I pulled was capable of. And he has been one of my most trusted and definitely overall THE most used unit ever since, allmost single handedly carrying me through all content pretty much.
And the best part about all this is that my Dimitri doesn't exactly have the best IV's. He is +Spd/-Def. ...Minus ...Def. And even so I have not had much of a need to change that. I absolutely will, eventually, and I hope I can +10 him someday if for nothing else than to pay back to him even a little for everything he has done for my account.
The man, the myth, the refine legend.
Gatekeeper increases his threat level by 100% when Rally Spectrum is active on him. On EP, he can spam Bonfire immediately
"i dont understand why they gave this unit deep wounds reduction"
Because fatal smoke on duo lif and l!sigurd singlehandedly killed brave claude.b. He went from this obnoxious speedy tank who healed instantly all the damage dealt to him to a fly waiting to be swatted. Brave claude was the face of sustain tanking which fatal smoke hard countered
yeah fatal smoke was pretty much created to counter him more than anything else, and thank god it didn't become this "everyone must have it!" type of effect like damage reduction, or cooldown acceleration or claude would be useless nowadays
i really wish they got remixes to their personal skills...
marth: make shining emblem give +6 to all stats to everyone grant treachery(true damage based on visible stats) and null panic or disables unit penalties, boost damage to 40% unit speed, heal 10hp after combat and grant all these effects to all allies.
eiricka: moonlight bangle have canto, full tempo, special peirce dr (over luna gimmick it has) and inflicts penalty on foe atk/spd/def based on special cooldown value +4 and if special cooldown more than or equal to 2 then special cooldown +1 per attack.
marriane: maybe if requium dance triggers it can do some damage, grant ally nother action and the highest hp ally has no gravity happens once a turn.
gatekeeper: keep things the same but if he moves like brave corrin gives a divine vein pallisade (grants +5 to all stats on tile and each tile is a defence terrain tile and foes have to expend 1 extra movement)
Pretty much agree with everything bar Gatekeeper and kind of Marianne?
With Gatekeeper, he's undoubtedly someone that matches extremely well into the meta, moreso than most units, but I'm not sure if I'd bring him over Myrrh because of the omnipresence of red nukes. I was thinking he could work well with Brave Soren for Save shenanigans in SD, but that remains to be seen. However, one thing you didn't mention (I believe you didn't mention this, but someone correct me if I'm wrong), because his refine doubles down on bulk, if you're not a red unit, he works pretty damn well as a far saver with Canto Control, which can potentially be pretty oppressive to unprepared teams. Definitely a cool counterpick option, though I think he should be in Tier 1 for now.
I think your assessment of Marianne is pretty good for the most part. My only small nitpick is when you said that you'd rather bring a dedicated dancer, with the example being Duo Peony. I disagree with this line of thinking, as it defeats the purpose of Marianne to begin with. Where her strength lies is that she's a dancer you bring alongside your dedicated one, not to replace it. Unlike SD, there's no action economy so getting a unit that can punch through saves and dance at the same time, *while not being seasonally locked* is to my knowledge (again, someone correct me if I'm wrong, there are like 1000 units in this game, I'm bound to miss a few lool) exclusive to her, making her pretty valuable, especially in Chaos season. I would also rank her as Tier 1 though.
ive gotta ask, what premiere red nukes is myrrh tanking? all of her built in dr is peircable and she has no insane fire power to retaliate with. On paper she sounds like a pretty mediocre tank even if she has "the right color"
@@BIGstonks Take these calcs with a grain of salt naturally, because there can be elements unaccounted for within a real match.
First, I wanted to set a baseline, Legendary Myrrh at +1 with a +6 boost to her defense and resistance, her banes being +Def and +Res, +10 Dragonflowers, and Atk/Res Scowl being the only change to her base kit, due to Rhea being out for almost 5 months and being in a banner right now. So right now her kit should be looking like this:
Godly Breath
Sacred Cowl
Atk/Res Scowl 4
Counter Roar 4
Warp Bubble
Def/Res Form Seal (DC is largely irrelevant for the example MUs, I like it for the safe net of not knowing what I'll fight, so while I like the ability to abuse Counter Roar, them being so prevalent kinda makes it hard. You CAN use it as a safety net against units that don't have firesweep, just that these two MUs in particular are worse.)
Under these assumptions, I pit them against similar ones for the nukes. (base kit Veronica and Legendary Hinoka, with Atk/Spd boosting seals, no visible buffs, no penalties, +Atk and +Spd boons, and +10 Dragonflowers,)
I'll start with the bad news you were very likely expecting. She crumples to Hinoka. Flat out. Not even close loool, that unit is crazy. If Myrrh had Null C, I can imagine it could play out differently, but idk how to calc that, the duel simulator doesn't let me.
As for Veronica, with the build above, she eats it fairly well, surviving at 28 HP. Of course this changes without Triangle Attack, but the whole point of Myrrh and Gatekeeper was to stop warping, increase chances of survival, and make abusing Triangle Attack harder due to the lack of warping.
Again, I have to stress this out, this is just in a simulation, whether it plays out this way or not depends on a wild amount of variables, but being able to *at least* stand a shot at surviving against someone like Veronica is something I find valuable, though Gatekeeper definitely has his niche and I'll be testing him out later when I get the chance.
SMALL DISCLAIMER: I'd like to test a miracle build when I have time, I'll probably update with the results here.
the myrrh vs gatekeeper debate i think was relevent before his refine, now he's the clear superior choice, as he can have warp bubble and canto control. And yeah you have to keep him away from red nuke, which is not that big of a problem, and myrrh have a similar if not worse problem in having to be kept away from every bow or dragon effective weapons in the game. Maybe once she gets her remix she'll probably become way stronger than him as powercreep at this point will probably be all over the place. But as of right now i don't see a reason to use myrrh over gatekeeper as he can be even more annoying than her with canto control and his also an amazing support with the pretty much free +5 to all stats and healing after combat for all allies, while myrrh can maybe sometimes do one or two fights if there's no falchion/naga/bow sneezing in her direction
Gatekeepers refine is pretty great
it's perfect for supporting an AR Omni tank since it gives them +5 to all stats and the 7 Healing allows them to run something like Distant Atk/Spd Solo over Finish and still have healing so they don't get overwhelmed by damage on top of also having warp bubble and Bulwark from his B to protect the backline and keep the Omni tank from being overwhelmed by every unit on the enemy team in 1 turn from things like guidance
and then the Flat DR he gets allows him to survive much better when he does need to take a hit and for SD it can force the opponent to commit a strong unit to take him out giving the rest of the team a better position to strike the enemy team from also you can give him Flare so that he can better heal himself in the event he has to take multiple combats
and for AR His weak offensive ability is somewhat to his benefit since he can just sit there in AR and distract a unit while the rest of the team gets the pots/deals with the rest of the team
I think his refine is the most divisive in terms of how good people think it is since a lot of people who are disappointed with Gatekeeper's refine seem to be the people that wanted him to be a better combat unit while the people happiest for the refine are those that saw him as a support and like that his refine makes him better at what he was already doing
As an avid Gatekeeper user, I only used him as support with Canto Control or Inf.NFU (depends on team) and I’m extremely happy with his refine. Better support and bulk were the only things I wanted
I feel Marianne might be much better than we give her credit for right now, mostly cuz she would play very different roles depending of the game mode you are in. She seems to be versatile enough to be either an unorthodox dancer, an AoE spammer or a regular nuke, the only problem is that she can't be all of them at once.
I expected a lower ranking for Gatekeeper, so I was pleasantly surprised to see otherwise.
My L!Alear was coming up just a bit short of tanking some AR maps, but with GK support, she truly becomes a force to be reckoned with.
Claude is the one CYL unit I don't know what IS thought when making his refine. It feels all over the place to me. Parts of his refine scream that he wants to be a nuke, while other parts say he wants to be a tank. When it comes to the other losers of their respective batch it was pretty clear that IS wanted their refines to be bad. But Claude just feels awkward.
I've already really liked B!Marth before his refine. I think he aged phenomenally thanks to new skills like Time's Pulse 4 and NCD4. The one thing about him I didn't like was that his conditions for his weapon felt really awkward to activate and it was the one thing I hoped IS would change about him in his refine. I personally think he already was a T1 unit pre-refine and honestly I don't think his refine changed much. He's just a bit better than before, but nothing too crazy.
Overall I think I like Marianne's refine the most this batch. She pretty much got everything she wanted and even more. Just Slaying and a Tempo effect would have been enough for her to be an absolutely amazing Galeforce unit.
Brave Claude was always intended to be a hit and sit unit. You go in, get 1 kill, and then tank the rest. His refine gave him everything he had previously lacked to make that work. I know people will point to no defensive nfu, but he doesnt care if he gets doubled because he always heals all the damage back with his counterattack. The null fatal smoke is becahse fatal smoke is whag made the unit fall off the face of the earth to begin with
Gatekeeper folds vs any combat but his support is so good it doesn't matter. Long range +5 support, healing, denying catria ball warps is waaay to good
Denying Catriaball warping only works well if he's on the frontline, which he can't be because he's dogshit in combat. It's not like he stop any movement or anything, again, wants to be out of combat range which also means not making use out of his Bulwark. He doesn;t prevent Triangle Attack, so the foe can, you know, just move normally and still setup, which Gatekeeper will do nothing against. Omni+5 and Healing is really nothing support against other actual support units, who also have the benefit of actually having a combat presence too.
BMARTH IS SO GOOD NOW! HE DOESN’T NEED TEMPO ANY MORE! HE NOW CAN USE ANTI DR! WOOOO
How about ncd though?
Can just use LAlearF, then either NullCDisrupt or dodge4 is open
yeah ngl tempo wasnt what i expected but maybe i wanted and needed it deep down
B!Roy had a legitimate niche over +10 eliwood since he has less bulk so it’s easier to fall into WoM range. I have a +10 eliwood but find I used to use +0 B!Roy instead on maps where I needed to fall into WoM range and there weren’t enemies strong enough to get me there
Im loving gatekeeper refine in ar - o. Him and my L Guinevere giving my savior tanks +14 healing. And both of my Saviors allready have passive healing so they are getting a total of +21 healing after combat
Really glad i got that stacked B!Marth from hall of forms :') was really counting on him jumping spaces in the omni/godsword ranking, but it is just sorta nice
tbh, these refines looks tame for me...only Marianne refine that looks good
Eirika need DR pierce
GK...man, i want him having GFU
Marth is okay
Itsuki is eh
Mirabilis...well, IS make her to be a combat unit again instead of full support
Hel...the one interesting for me is her Inevitable Death+
For Brave Gatekeeper, just give him the QR3 Seal, that's it, otherwise he has everything he needed now, both increased Support and good defenses to survive the enemy, he'll be annoying the enemy *A Lot*
GK was always made as support. He can do a bit of damage if you really flex, but his value is what he does to teammates. GFU would have been nice, but if he split his identity between kinda support and kinda offense, he'd be mediocre and bad for it
Prett good list Joel and honestly I would have ranked most of them exactly the same (at least tier-wise), with three exceptions: Edelgard, Lyn and Eliwood.
Feel like Edelgard should be tier 0, even above Gatekeeper, cause I feel like the day we got more anti-Warp things he will fall of, while Edelgard is still one of our best Near Save units in the game even with her unfavourable color. Sure she was not a „from zero to hero“ unit as most of the others in tier 0, but well she basically was the only CyL 1-4 unit that at time of her refine was still a high or even top tier unit and maybe got not that comparably much because of it but unlike Lyn or Veronica she got exactly what she needed and make her even better in her role and versatility can’t be a malus for her, cause most in tier 0 has/had exactly one role and probably with the same builds on every single version of every single player in the world (especially Ike and Hector). She should be up there honestly.
With Lyn I feel like she was really dominant at her time, like Veronica was but maybe because of it and overall bad refines at that time they got one both got equally shafted. The refine was a coffin nail for both of them and therefore I feel like Lyn needs to go to tier 4 just like Veronica because I don’t think using Lyn with anything else than what’s is her own stuff and THEN maybe being better should justify a higher rank and I think even at the time of her refine there already were better alternatives just like with Veronica.
And Eliwood, if max invested would probably right in tier 2 nowadays especially with Eirika actually not turning out that great as it was hoped. But the thing is at the time he got his refine, he became better but I remember it as it was yesterday it was stated that he basically is not that worth at all, cause Brave Eirika was just released the month before an was better in basically everything compared to Eliwood and because you mainly take consideration of their upgrades when it happens I feel like he should go to tier 3, sure the top of it, but if you argue for Eirika that we recently got so many amazing Cavs… it of course also count for Eliwood and honestly for him we not even have better Cavs, but also better dragon killers than him. Beasts … fair, that is his niche not many other can do, but I don’t know if that overall justifies tier 2 tho.
But I guess overall these are just minor nitpicks and after all it is YOUR list, so it’s fine. ^_^
Excellent video as always. Sad to see my one time main, Ephraim, ranked this low but I can't even argue with that.
Could I ask where you got that Speed Build Dimitri around 10:00? I'm not quite understanding the Special rotation. It seems to focus on a strong Vital Astra counterattack but doesn't cycle to use the DR portion.
The reception for this Batch of refines seems to be all over the place lol
That's because the meta is all over the place because they are spamming new skills and meta shifting units at us. The truth is they don't know.
I personally feel that Brave Edelgard is the best CYL unit to this day. I get so much use out of her in every game mode and as a near save there is really nothing that can one round her outside of S! F! Shez who I never see. My Marisa can take down a Brave Dimitri while I have had Edelgard in arena tank a +10 Fallen Byleth and win the exchange (granted it took around 15 turns to do so)
IS usually give weaker refines to units that were top tier before the refines and stronger refines to weaker characters, for exemple Ike when he first came out was meta for 1 month, his only purpose was countering reinhardt, while lyn was THE meta, being the only bow cav in the game for a long time, the second one valentine roy had drastically different stats than her making his role totally different and lyn still being the best of the two. Roy and lucina were the forgotten child so they decided to make lucina into the best support in the game at the time and roy into one of the best sword cav but they ruined it by giving access to his top tier refine to 3/4* eliwood and to add insult to injury eliwood got his resplendent soon after. It would've been a tier zero refine if we allowed eliwood in the debate
veronica was top tier because applying buffs to teamates and debuffs to foes at the same time made huge differences at the time and would make the difference between you dying and you getting the kill, also healers were at their prime with the razzle/dazzle combo not having any counter. And so instead of giving her an effect to make her better at what she did (+6 buffs and -6 debuffs instead of +/-4 ; mystic boost and/ or null c counter ; pannic smoke etc.) they gave her this weird and weak (even at the time) drive and rein effect. And well everyone else from tier two were pretty forgetable at the time compared to her, hector was just doing his usual hector stuff, celica was doing the same thing as og alm's refine but slightly better, and ephraim was here. so they all got pretty strong refines, oh, and ephraim got a refine too.
year 3 alm was concidered the worst of the bunch, being a falchion user in a see of falchion user, his refine gave him this unique perma +1 movement to make him stand out wich worked out pretty great, micaiah was the strongest of the 4, debuffs were still a big deal at time and if i remember harsh command+ didn't exist so we didn't have many ways to counter them but it was mostly thanks to the dual effectiveness, back in the days just having that on her weapon would've made her top tier, and she got the weakest refine too, but managed to stay somewhat relevent, and guidance 4 managed to make her still as relevent today, eliwood was a good niche pick and his refine made him a better niche pick, and camilla is interesting, when she came out she wasn't as powerfull as veronica, people would even say that veronica from the year before was still stronger than her thanks to being a cav and the buff/debuffs difference making, and her refine didn't really made her any stronger, she was more usefull sure, but that's about it, we had many better healers in the mean time so just putting gravity on foes is kinda meh, but she was saved and became imo the strongest of the 4 thanks to holy panic making her effectivelly inflicting -6 to every stats and panic on foe, poetic justice making her hit like a truck and of course guidance 4 making her instant top tier support material
year 4 was the "fairest" of the cyl imo, they were all pretty similar in terms of power level, dimitri fell out after a while so he got a huge power boost in power with his refine and the actual "god unit" meta really complemented his playstyle, and deep wound was created to counter claude always healing 20+ hp each fights, making him unkillable, so him countering his counter is neat. Edelgard and lysithea were seen as the strongest of the 2 and their refines made them better at what they do
year 5 was seen as a joke, gatekeeper and marianne despite being first were garbage at the time, gk being niche and lacking many effects to make him a good tank, and warping was pretty much nowhere to be seen so the effect was pretty useless, and marianne was also pretty niche, and was lacking kill power, special acceleration, and her niche use was easilly countered by guard, while marth and eirika followed what was meta at the time they had nothing unique and still don't. But i was hoping that it would be temporary and that GK and marianne's uniqueness would make them relevant for a longer time while marth and eirika would eventually fall down with their meta, and boy was i happy with the refines, marth and eirika got uptated effect to find a place in the current meta (not being the top tier of their archetype tho) while GK and marianne got huge boost making their unique effect stronger and easier to use, especially GK warping being so meta RN made his niche and funny B skill into a meta counter, and canto control works so well on him too! he's like this annoyance to the oposing team always being in their way when they try to do stuff, wana warp? nope, wana canto? nope, wana attack a threatening unit behind gatekeeper? Nope, have to kill him first. people started using pass on their flying nuke just to be able to go through him in summoner duels (also because fliers don't have much good options for B skills beside canto but since it gets completly nullified by GK, pass is a surprisingly good skill to run)
B!Eliwood hits like a truck 👌I have my forma +2 on one of my AR teams to counter whenever the enemy has 2 or more dragons or beasts. And beast effectiveness is rare to come by
It's interesting to see that the first place, male CYL units have been getting the best refines of each batch.
It’s not really to surprising when you look at it from a business standpoint. IS gains nothing from giving strong refines to the units people are already using, but if they give great refines to units that are popular but rarely used, a lot of people that never bothered to pull for them aboriginals will start to spend their orbs. Traditionally, the female division winner has had the strongest kit on release. Being popular, strong, and a pretty woman, a lot of people +10 them right away. Meanwhile the men’s winners tend to be decent but a bit underwhelming. The fans pull a copy or two and there will always be a few that +10 purely for favoritism, but most people never bother.
Recent CYLs have been a bit non-traditional in regards to which units are strongest on release, from CYL 5 giving 2nd place the strongest weapons, to the most recent CYL making the men arguably more unique so it’s hard to say what will happen from here, but the traditional pattern is simply powered by money.
because female units are pretty much always the strongest units from the banner on release, so when the refines comes around, they eihter think they don't need too strong effect because they're already good or they are scared of giving them too strong effects because they could counter the new and shiny units they want you to spend money on.
Meanwhile the guys often gets powercrept in the following two months so they feel like putting strong effects on them will maybe convice people to +10 them
I had mixed feelings on GK, since I was hoping for more support, but then I realized his support is all drives, meaning it can't be shut down by False Start (which will come back, MARK MY WORDS) and the healing can't be shut down by Severance either since it's after combat.
He actually took the best aspect of his kit, which was that it CANT be shut down unless he dies (mostly) and did the most with it, while also making it harder for him to die
Brave Marianne is to me the UNDISPUTED winner of this batch and falls far more in line with the male winners of the last 3 years, getting everything you wanted and then a bit more? Yessir!
So my ranking goes Marianne/GK/Marth/Eirika, with Marth and Eirika being both drowned in competition and creep, Marianne and Beeper did what we always knew they would, age better!
Also thanks to Soren the Savior Beeper dream is REAL and I couldn't be happier.
bit disappointed in Brave Eirika's refine, only thing I really wanted with her was DR piercing, or ult piercing for AR-O. Speed is nice, I guess, but as a tank buster, I don't think she hits the mark anymore with how much DR there is everywhere
It is.. so you really need to run her with instant Luna, she kill everthing in 1 hit even an AD Unity with L.Robin B. Edel. Can't 1 hit most of the hardy though. All the god sword can be handled though.
what's the bgm on cyl 2 section? i love the music but i do not know the nameeeee
I heard somewhere that DR Piercing can stack. Is that true? I was wondering if magic NFU is wasted on Marianne?
It does stack, but it does multiplicatibly, so Marianne having 50% DR piercing + Magic NFU does not mean you get 100% DR piercing, it would instead be 75% DR piercing, which is still pretty good.
My summoner support, slot one team one favorite unit who stands at the top of the Home Screen with me is still my +10 Eliwood, Roy’s refine game him so so much, and I still spoil him with new skills and he pulls his weight across the game for me
I'm gonna disagree with most everyone on Eirika. She is insane against all armors and cavalry. All she needed to fill her kit was added, plus a ton of stat buffs.
I dunno, I was feeling mostly underwhelmed by these refines. Like, none of them got a bad refine, but the CYL heroes I don't think really improved all that much with maybe two exceptions, Marianne and GK and even then it's not a Brave Dimitri situation where I can see these units going from never used to omnipresent. I think the people who used them already will keep using them and everyone else will ignore them.
Marth still has a vantage effect he doesn't really use all too well without special investment of like Phys. NFU or Spiral 4 or something and he has no protection for him or his team against penalties which I think is important because all his relevant effects kinda require he and his team have buffs.
Eirika wants to try and outspeed her foes to deny them Dodge skills and things like Vital Astra and Godlike Reflexes, but still has no way around other forms of damage reduction. She really wanted to outright pierce that stuff with her special but she's not gonna get that.
Marianne got pretty much everything she needed and now she can be consistent in her niche as a nuke you can bring alongside a dancer who can keep refreshing the dancer for herself and others and got some true damage and Reduction-reduction to make up for not having a damaging special.
Gatekeeper has some better support and better frontlining potential, but his green color is going to hold him back, because if he dies than the support he provides is null. He's like a weird mix of backline support effects with a wide range that also wants to be in the front of the team (why else would they give him Obstruct, if not to block enemy access to your team?)
You got the icon for Garm's refine wrong, and put Roy's icon instead. This next one is a very slight nitpick, but you had Eliwood's lance labelled as Ninian's Ice Lance instead of the in game spelling, Nini's Ice Lance, which is a heinous crime. The name is too cute to not get right.
I would put Edelgard in tier 1 because she makes Arena so much easier. Helping in both offensively and defensive with a decent score 💞
Question, Alarm Atk/SPD on Erika when Moonlight has Canto? Not a slight or anything, but I guess Cavs really don't have skills if we stacking Canto now👁️👁️
I have to disagree on B!Marianne, she is a top tier and very flexible unit. She will age way better than everyone else from CYL5, including the overrated Gatekeeper, and it must be noted on her refine. Support roles age better and endure some of the huge powercreep the game had last 2-3 years.
i agree with your take on marianne and i think she's pretty powerfull right now being able to refresh dancers. But GK is far from overrated??? You said it yourself supports age better and can endure huge powercreep, his pretty much free +5 to all stats and after combat healing already makes him one of the best support, he also inflict -15 atk/res on foe, follow up negation, and true damage reduction based on his defense, and after combat healing to making him difficult to kill for non red nuke. and the warp bubble + canto control is just too good at countering the current meta of constent warp into canto, there's no denying that
@@aqualacerta3961 L!Male Robin and B.Catria/W.Cordelia-balls teams are a good way to get rid of GK. Also, his healing isn't really an issue do deal with him. The problem os to Enemy Phase him. Trap/allure him on PvE content, Play EnemyPhase/DualPhase teams on SD, Arena he isn't very common. He is only good at SD and AR-D. As I said, on SD he is not really an issue, as thereare bigger threats. The only place he really shines is AR-D.
@@aqualacerta3961 L!Male Robin and B.Catria/W.Cordelia-balls teams are a good way to get rid of GK. Also, his healing isn't really an issue do deal with him. The problem os to Enemy Phase him. Trap/allure him on PvE content, Play EnemyPhase/DualPhase teams on SD, Arena he isn't very common. He is only good at SD and AR-D. As I said, on SD he is not really an issue, as thereare bigger threats. The only place he really shines is AR-D.
@@jonassilva2099 no the oposite, GK totally shuts down catria's balls team by removing their way of aproaching, he isn't an offensive threat at all, but he enable the offensive threat of your team to be safe. Forcing the oponent to aproach normally allowing you to take them out one by one with your nukes. There's a reason why many people started running pass on their flyers in SD. And yes GK is better in AR (not just defense as offensive warping défense teams are also all over the place) and SD and? That's two good modes to be good in (if not the 2 best and most relevant). And pretty much every units aren't good everywhere. BMarianne gets popped easilly in AR-D, her dance is at Best very situational to totally useless on SD and doesn't score well and is again easy to pop in arena. That doesn't make her bad in any way. GK forcing the oponent to play differently from what they wanted already makes him good by défault
lol wind sweep was not better than savages blessing back then because nfu was still locked to cavs mostly and was still pretty rare. But her refine was definitely pretty lackluster, most likely due to IS not wanting to make her dominate the meta again. They also ended up doing this against to B!vero and her wack refine
Also, Ephraim back in the days of the L!sigurd cav meta, could take him on and kill him. He could also was one of the few armors who could scrap with and take on B!Erika at launch, Eli wood with his refine etc. He was an excellent near save with such a simple refine, just thanks to the auto follow up, half of nfu, and healing. Hardy fighter and save ball support did the rest of the work. Nfu didn’t really hurt him as much, since the mega cav Nikes didn’t automatically come with it yet during that era or B!Erika’s era. I definitely think he was at least tier 2, he put In so much work, but people always rank him much lower than he deserves because of B!hector, which is a bit unfair
I love this blast from the past tho, seeing all these old cyl units
Personal opinion on these 4 is none are stand out exceptional.
Dimitri on release was insane. True DR + BLR, dude was crushing it. Here, all 4 still have an issue. Marth DR piercing and NCD. Eirika is strong, but the rate powercreep is going, her time is limited; theres no "unique" effect to make her last. Gatekeeper doubled down on support. As a green tome. We already have Citrinne, MRobin, and Soren. Those three double as relatively competent nukes as well; GK does not. Marianne is the winner of the whole batch, as Requim Dance is the unique pazzaz to make her last. But i dont know if she'll have the stats to work as a nuke going forward.
Basically think IS went very tame with these refines, and, especially since these are by definition fan favorites, they could have pushed the bar quite a bit further and no one eould have cared
They could have at least gave mirabilis true dr or dr since they making her a combat unit now
What we’re they thinking with Mira?
I think it's good for what it is. Remember she's on AR-D so we can't control how the AI initiates battle sometimes. If for some reason she did attack instead of dance, she at least has flash smoke and basically stops the enemy team from attacking that turn which will let your defense team to hopefully wipe them out
Well you knew this comment was coming.
Here's what i do agree with:
1. You WILL get bashed over the head for this :)
2. He's not meta impactful. Even though he's been amazing all this time, i nearly never see any b!marths except mine. And I dont think this refine will bring a surge of B!Marth users either unlike the previous 0 to hero cyl refines. Especially when the general reception is "nearly nothing changed". If thats the main reason for putting him in the same tier as like Micaiah and Celica, then I have no qualms.
Here's what i dont agree with:
Marth is an AMAZING omnitank in a sea of amazing omnitanks. I'm still not sure what exactly makes people rate F!F!Byleth as the amazing omnitank, but Marth as the weak one. What makes it fair to place Byleth high but Marth in the middle?
Is it the skill investment? Its true that Marth is gonna need a fair amount of skill investment because basically everything but his weapon on his base kit is not good enough in this meta. But that is also true for B!Dimitri who is usually rated higher than or just as high as Byleth. If Bimi gets the proper kit overhaul to outpace Byleth, shouldn't Marth as well?
Is it speed? Byleth was faster than Marth before his refine (this is not the case afterward), but i dont think she was so far ahead that Marth was several tiers below her. Now with the amount of speed (and other stats) that Marth gets with his proxy Bonus Doubler he surpasses Byleth. But he's still considered just "pretty good" and Byleth is above him?
Is it just Divine Pulse? Divine Pulse is an amazing special and easily leagues over Shining Emblem. But in reality, even Divine Pulse has major vulnerabilities. Neither Shining Emblem nor Divine Pulse do ANYTHING when the Hardy Bearing DR Piercing nuke comes around. Both are going to need to be replaced with GLR for those situations if you want Marth or Byleth to be on their A games. And if youre not in that situation, then they both almost always sweep the defense.
Marth definitely has better bulk, Marth has a vantage condition that will almost certainly be unbeatable even as speed creep grows further, he now has Tempo which is HUGE for consistent GLR looping, he also has built in DR. What else does he need to have in order to be considered an Amazing omnitank instead of just "very good"?
Idk. B!Marth would probably be nuts with Null C Disrupt 4 and a L!Alear support
(coping due to +10 B!Marth)
dont cope, that sounds amazing
Isn't gatekeeper's supports gets shutdown by feud aside from healing and the warp bubble? I think putting him on tier 0 is not appropriate at all. I still think Legendary myrhh is still better at him when it comes to anti warping because shehas access to a lot of skills such as scowl and guard bearing 4.
Issue is that feud doesn't come up all that often compared to stuff like oaths and what not. As it stands, its unlikely he's gonna run into trouble due to feuds.
@@Bowserboy129 Fair enough. But I still think his refine is not comparable to Brave Dmtri and BraveHector when it comes to refines. Those two are meta shifters and gatekeeper is not because his main usability in on his b skill not because of his refine. I doubt you would replace Citrine and legendary male Robin over him at all.
Also I know it's rare for units to equip feud skills when there are other options, but I just remembered that we have free green feud fodder on the manuals so that can be an option.
@@kakayama2577 He isn’t replacing LRobin or Citrinne, but he is replacing Celine, which is one of the best supports for omnitanks right now. GK with Inf. NFU offers more to the team than LMyrrh.
A side note. How are you using Citrinne? I find her a lot less valuable than other supports like LRobin, LEliwood, BRobin, or even Celine, as I can usually get the buffs on the tank in the first place.
I'd agree, if it wasn't for the fact that at least in SD I see like Pass on several units in many teams I face. GK usage in SD has also notably risen.
Brave Marianne will always be Tier 0 for me.
She got an excellent refine. You should be really happy about it.
@@FEH Indeed I am 😁
I agree with most except GK and Marianne´s placing, yes GK got good stuff, but GFU with that speed and how abundant NFU is now days adds little to almost nothing to him, the Flat DR is cool, but I believe now a days isn´t enough just look at Diamant he has 25% and he is just dying to the most common nukes and GK is green like the worst colour the healing is fine I guess and yes there is warp bubble, but that hasn´t been that relevant, in the end there is no real reason of taking GK in your team unless he is your fav
Marianne on the other hand got exactly what she neede to work as she is intended to work, sure the refine didn´t add new niches to her but at least make her niche consistently slaying and tempo is amazing for her role I actually believe she is the actual winner of this batch not that she gets to tier 0 but definitively higher than GK
"Warp bubble hasnt been relevant" lul what game modes are you playing, Arena?
You run into so many catria balls in AR its unreal, and with the introduction of Frejr you run into them IN BOTH SEASONS, rally traps are a thing, guidance 4 is a thing, bro??????
I think the core difference between gatekeeper and Diamant is stats and usage, Gatekeeper has an actual res stat and his major usage wont be as an omnitank as much as it will be bulky support. Not to say hell be the best but he has a more distinctive use.
I do agree with Marianne though I think people are largely underestimating her, and while yes she has alot of tank buster competition, many of those competitors have been premium/seasonal units whilst marianne has been easy to merge for fans of the character. Not to mention her unique offensive presence via requiem dance is now alot easier to use.
@@mercy144 the only one with warp bubble that has been relatively used is Myhrr and she hasn’t been that prominent or really an issue, I’ve seen more bullkhart users than warp bubble,
Exactly Guidance4 has been so prominent that it’s odd warp bubble hasn’t been use much, maybe now with his refine we will see it more but even then I don’t think GK refine is better than Marianne he still has so many ways around it and nukers now a days are nasty strong
All the refines for this batch were very underwhelming.
Gatekeeper didn't really improve much. The additional +5 to defenses and the healing after combat for allies is nice, but its not the best support option out there. Robin's Rally Spectrum offers more value with it's cooldown reduction imo. His combat potential got better with the -15 to the foes Atk/Res and the 20% Def based dr, but not by much. Reducing two hits by like, 10 doesn't mean a lot when things hit really hard nowadays. Denying and guaranteeing follow ups really doesn't mean much when NFU is so prominent, but giving him a guaranteed follow up would've helped I guess. And sure, Ignis or Bonfire's off of his defense will hurt... but speed and resistance based DR characters laugh at the prospect of eating that hit. The only way to boost that damage would be to ally support him with the new Legendary Alear, otherwise you'd have to replace his gimmick B skill for Spiral 4 or Mag NFU. Using GK as a far saver sounds terrible btw. There are plenty of ranged units who'll annihilate him. Soren has a better shot at taking on ranged units than GK. Nothing has really changed with GK. You're just going to bring him for anti warp and nothing more.
Marianne definitely improved. An accelerated weapon, null guard, cut DR in half, more first hit DR for herself, its nice. I don't like using her, but only because you could just field a strong support dancer instead. You don't neuter your offense units with Gravity like Marianne does, and you could get good buffs or debuffs or even another action for your dancer so they can fight. At that point, it's just a matter of whether you want to use her gimmick.
Marth didn't get much. Null Guard is nice, but you could just use Time's Pulse 4 to mitigate it completely. His weapon still plays around buff totals, but they didn't give him a way to get Null Panic to himself or his allies. The new bonus to his stats and first hit DR are nice but he's not competing against Alear or any of the godswords that have come out since his release. Even Legendary Marth is better tbh.
Eirika... they didn't do much with her. Dull Atk/Spd/Def, debuffing said stats dependent on unique bonus totals, and the rest of NFU. No other form of DR for herself, no pierce DR, nada. They didn't try at all. Guess we'll just have to wait for his next alt which will be super cracked.
Last year's batch of refines was so much better. Dimitri shot up so much, Lysithea became an actual good red nuke, Edelgard got tankier, and Claude outpaced Legendary Claude. This batch will just... exist. This feels like the CYL 3 refines. Just ok refines outside of maybe, 1 of them. In this instance, Alm and Marianne's refine.
Null guard is more for follow-up fire emblem, IS probably wanted to make more use out of b!Marths nfu so they added first hit Dr and null guard for potential follow-ups
How much of an improvement is Speed B!Dimitri over Defense B!Dimitri? I only play PvE so I don't know if It's so necessary to change his build (My B!Dimitri is +10, max DF)
If you only do PVE, stick with what you have. The speed build only works if you’re using mythic blessings.
Also I thought for sure GK would have savior like Soren did. Guess not this time…!
Why pledge for B!Marth??? It doesn't do anything for him (Serius question)
Probably want oath instead for its warp, but if you're within 2 spaces of an ally, you get AtkSpd+3 during combat, separate from the start of turn +6
I'd argue just TimesPulse for vantage special spam is better, but it's not meaningless
pledge's special accel is def useless on that build but on a GLR build its so amazing
This Brave GateKeeper ALWAYS MAKes sure that the opponents in A raids can collect all the pots. He is so tanky yet hits like a noodle. They gave Itsuki a GFU why not give one to this too?
Oh well I'll still use him, he fkn +10. Oh another one, he needs Canto Control. If you dont have it, u pretty much should not use him hahaha.
tried him with IP team with Times Pulse and instant bonfire, but u really need the Canto control.
If not then u prob would want to use him on "OFFENSE" instead.
Edit:
*Also Marianne with Magic NFU is just busted, just Catria ball her and she will killllllllllll and refresh someone.
*My B.Marth can't tank B.Eirika now LOL. SOOOO SAD.
I believe you were a bit too generous with GK. I don't think warp denial and Omni +5 is anything close to how impactful the other refines where (Bike was unkillable post refine, Bector is probably the unit that has stayed longest at the top of the meta, and Bimitri is his basically his challenger).
Moreso, I think myrrh may be a better pick than GK in some compositions (mainly when used with Linoka).
I more or less agree with the rest of the ranking.
Imma bop with on a different unit. As a B!Claude super fan what is he tier 1 in lmao. I make him work because he’s my fave but as a nuke and as a tank he’s not great at all.
Would brash assault 4 stack with mariannes 80%?
Just with those two
1-(1-.8)*(1-.3) = 1-.2*.7 = 14% damage taken
If you mean the damage reflection, ALL damage reduction counts, be it flat DR, specials, dodge effects, it all counts
Putting Gatekeeper in tier 0 and not tier 2 or 1 is interesting.
At the end of day he's the only unit this latest batch that has specific role and usage in the meta.
The warp meta won't stop so his usage maintains.
Now let's just add the support that now he brings and you'll see a long time usable support.
If warp meta falls then he does as well.
B!marianne is a good pol unit for sure now :) as dancers arent a thing there, shes like tier0 in that regard
Wait, does Marianne's dance special work in PoL??
@@erosennin4444 if i recall correctly yes, just before it was unreliable
@@BARadiantDawn that's crazy to me. I had no idea skills like that would work. Thanks, I'll give it a shot next time and hope it works. 😁
@@erosennin4444 im pretty sure it does, but been a long time since i tried haha i switched to duo askr
Look, I know Oath 4 and Pledge are both redundant on Lysithea and thus equal, but PLEASE DO NOT WASTE A WHOLE ALEAR ON HER.
As a B!Lys enjoyer I have Oath 4 on her, and until they release something which DOESNT overlap but still gives Atk/Spd+3, that's still her best option, since you could pair her with Alear and give her the DR piercing she's missing instead!
Also I refuse to run Flare, not only does it not pierce DR but it can potentially disable her weapon in VERY specific scenarios
and Dragon Fang is still better, fight me >:(
Strong disagree with needing to speed stack Dimitri. Going full bulk monster has been crushing everything for me. Especially with the speed creep this year he doesn't have as much business trying to fight that battle, just like how Ike fell off in that department.
As a bephraim user, I used to think he was good... Then bedel refine happened :((( at least he has good... Hair?
Brave Gatekeeper is too high, the refine isn’t good enough for people to run him outside AR O, he can’t nuke at all and dies to every other nuke out there, the true DR isn’t saving him. The support is really good but not tier 0 worthy. Also put Brave Marth in tier 3, I have a +10 Brave Marth and I gotta say that it’s just not good enough to have him compete against any of the newer red Omni tanks
Yeah, sucks that he can barely compete in the Omni tanking role. However, have you tried the SS4 vantage tanking role? He seems to do it much better now as he consistently get +25 atk or higher
what build are you using on brave marth?
@@BIGstonks depends, I have distant pressure, atk/spd finish and unity in the A, close call and special spiral 4 in the B, and spd smoke 4 and times pulse 3 in the C. So I switch between those when I need them. I think his biggest issue is that he can’t run Nul C and damage reduction piercing at the same time, not to mention most of his kit is killed when hit with feuds or Lulls
I hate Marth's refine so much. Not only does he get barely anything, not only have the others genuine better refine helping with there problems, not only is he not one of the best in the sword inf. class/ god sword class, not only does he not get DR piercing, the one thing I might add, that he truly need to be good at this point and time, NOT ONLY has he comp. with Fallen Byleth, one of the best vantage units, next to Altina, who also has a TRUE DR damaging special with TD on top of that, but to make it worse, the effects he got are just Mythic Sothis refine and remix in modern time. BOTH got first hit DR, stats, null guard, and a bit better healing to finish it of....
As a +10 Brave Marth user, I think I can understand how you felt 1 year prior with a refine that is just barely helpful to your fav., that you want to say frick you IntSys at there headquarters.
He just needed DR piercing, just that and nothing really else but I guess they want us to summon on that shiny, new unit called L'Alear to get that or Special Spiral 4, a skill that is in my eyes, a high commitment is.
Gambit 4 with a 1 CD special 🤨
Yeah, that should be been Aether. Definitely missed that one.
Fun Fact I learned today. Brave Gatekeeper's refine does NOT give him 3 extra HP. Regardless I'm definitely happy with his refine and use him a ton in summoner duels because guidance and warping is terrifying.
Brave Marth with Time's Pulse 4 is brutal now. He gets to now activate Shining Emblem twice per combat if he can double thanks to null guard and now I don't need to wait for Velocity 4 as a B skill. The extra DR in his weapon rocks since I now can confidently run NCD 4 in his B slot which has proven to be extraordinary in AR-O.
yeah only melee prf refines get an extra 3 HP. melee inheritable refines give +5 and ranged inheritable refines give +2
These refines are mostly very underwhelming. Which is disappointing. Back to sparking single copies of the latest broken modern unit instead I guess.
First! :D
The most wasted Forma soul I've ever spent. B!Marth got barely anything