223 Remington - 40gr V-Max with N133
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2022
- Testing the 40gr Hornady V-Max with VihtaVuori N133 in .223 Remington. Also taking a closer look at the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die and testing it against a Mighty Armory full length die.
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Without a shadow of a doubt, I firmly believe that the Manufactures are watching your show. -Dave
"This proves you should only use a neck sizing die"
You funny JRB
Nice shooting sir
brings back the lofi reloading. makes for a great Monday evening view over a drink. Thanks you cuzzin.
You are so funny, I love it.
"So each week, we are going to shoot one of the old guns in my safe as I clean them."
Third gun in, WOW I love this gun, let's do multiple videos on this one gun for a month or so.
Trust me, I am not complaining, this is why you are the best.
I can see myself doing the same darn thing, and it is a very sweet gun.
Best video you've done in quite awhile, by a country mile - in spite of the cheesy background music around the 30 min mark.
JRB............I have resigned myself to re-watching your old videos, as I enjoy them very much. Miss the content on your channel. In some ways, it almost seems like I know you. I hope all is well with you!
I loved your little close up interlude chamfer and powder drop. I felt like I was watching a drone flyover on one of my fishing shows
I have learned at least one new thing from every single video of yours. Thank you.
I have a Tompson Center and have learned with the 40 grain v-max is to push it as fast as I can and seems to really make it shoot more accurately
TAC is the powder I do that with.
Thanks, Shannon! Your videos are some of my favorite videos 😁
Enjoying the videos with your Grandfather's rifles. Thank you for sharing!
Excellent experiment, and really like how you are willing to try different things to see what happens. I mean, it's only brass and it's not a shuttle launch. However, it is important to get proper neck tension so the pews spit out of the barrel consistently.
I'm learning a lot watching you dink around with this. Thank You 🙂🙂
I like the comparing fire formed brass... I have never seen a die of the ones you have. It makes me want to go out and buy a new rifle. Keep up the good work. 👍
Just FYI in My Remington 700 26 inch barrel I am using V133 and Hornadys 53gr V-Max at just over 3465FPS and three three shot groups at 200 yards average .77 inch. V133 is a great powder. If it was me I would ditch those mounts and rings and put on Leupold Dual Dovetail Bases and Burris Signature Dual Dovetail Rings with MOA inserts as for firing pin springs I think is a waste of time.
Dude, you scared me nearly, then. Cracking video always. 🍻 👏 ✌️ 🥂
Loving the "whats in the safe" saga. Got me to pull out some different bullets for my .223 as well and do some testing. Thanks for the great content.
Keep up with this jrb keep show off ur grandfathers old guns. Like this sires.
Some of these groups were just excellent. Thank you.
Watched a video with Eric Cortina a LPR rifle competitor he and all the guys shooting the all said full length resized their cases.
Saw that too, and they were all top shooters.
I started out neck sizing all mine but after 3 firings they'd get stuck in my Wilson dies and had to be levered out with a screwdriver. I didn't like the idea of FLS every time but it does at least give consistent dimensions every time, and consistency in this game is where it's at.
Awesome video. I as well just ran into new brass fire forming issue. All head spaces were different. Today I'm doing round 2 to see what happens.
Glenn Zediker wrote when ever you shoot new brass it needs to be at max pressure so it fire forms. If not, and you load up light charges first, then max pressure charges during later reloads you can crack or split your brass.
The Lee Collet Die is an excellent neck sizing die. A number of tests have shown it to provide the best concentricity of all resizing methods and dies which is exactly what I found to be the case. The downside is that it’s difficult and time consuming to adjust just right but when you do, it’s great. Fortunately it’s very inexpensive so I bought one for each of my .308 bolt guns and headstamps of brass and kept them permanently in separate T-7 turrets.
Glad to see you using more Vihtavuori i fell in love with it for its sd numbers in 223
I love this bullet it my 700.
CFE has always done good enough for me.
Happy to see a JRB right after work 😀
Very interesting learning exercise with your brass. It’s easy to get spoiled on really consistent brass. I applaud your patience.
Learning overload. Gotta re watch that one and process
Your Ballistic tools neck gauge looks pretty handy and interesting. It looks like it would be a good addition to my bench, thanks 👍
Happy New Year 2023 to you. Thanks for your great videos. I have enjoyed all your .223 Rem and I shoot from 52gr through 63gr so far in 1 in 9 and a 1 in 12. Please keep up the good work.
You should really try Eric cortina’s seating depth accuracy test it changed the way I reload
There was a guy crying on UA-cam a few years back about never neck sizing your brass. Johnny proves him wrong. 😉
On your Lee Collet neck sizer die, some folks use a torque wrench to accurately and consistently set the neck tension.
This trick may not work on all presses with out some sort of adaptation. On Lee presses there is a bolt that h lol D's the handle in place. With a socket that fits this bolt, put the socket on the torque wrench, pull the handle through the sizing operation till you hit the point you feel it stop. Put the socket on the bolt and with the wrench set to 25 ftlbs, move the wrench till it clicks then hold 30 seconds. Lower the case enough to rotate and repeat.
This method you always have the same tension on the case in the die. The dwell time holding the case in the die gives the case time to fully form to the mandrill.
Using the dwell time part of this method may help with full length sizing.
Man always a good day when you post
You might not be interested in it but I hear you talk about working on your guns in your videos a lot and I think it would be awesome if you made the same format But with gun stuff instead of reloading
But hey your reloading videos are unmatched
Anywhere I’ve found
Keep up the good work
In for a classic. At least we have your legacy.
Woohoo!!! New video
I routinely get half inch 5 shot groups out of my 20 inch WOA service rifle barrel 1-8 twist with n133 and 40 vmax , 3600 FPS, gas gun! And 8 fps SD. N133 is in my opinion the best powder out for lighter bullets
Glad to see this rifle back in a video. If you ever want to try it Accurate #2200 is pretty good in light bullets for 223.
Have you tried it in .204?
Great video as always. I will immediately throw away all my FL dies and switch to neck only for everything. Can't wait too see the difference the spring makes when you get them swapped out. That has to be a video, no need to show the process (lots out there already) but the difference in performance should be interesting!
CCI BR4 40g Noslers, 3800 shoots a bug hole in my 700, N133. In the last 40 years, I have changed one firing pin spring, it had been left cocked for 20 years and got weak.
Why don’t you do a video about what happens when you reload a rifle round and tumbling media remains/lodged in the brass. How it effects pressure, accuracy, and how likely it is to blow up the gun. You make awesome videos and I'm most grateful for all the work you do.
Good stuff. My 6mm BRA and 6.5CM respond to full length sizing the best. My rifle is a custom Short Action Custom with Defiance Machine receiver and Bartlein barrel. My trigger is set to 9 oz-ish but I grip my rifle much differently than you. My thumb rests beside the stock, but my hand is wrapped around the grip and my cheek is comfortable on the riser. My trigger is 2 stage. The recoil does not move my rifle anywhere near what you're seeing. I get super consistent results with this grip. My loading is similar to your process - annealed, FL size with bushing, but I use a mandrel to size for neck tension, .075 off lands, and Berger bullets. Anyway, I appreciate you are looking for loads but the difference in group size and shot placement has me scratching my head on how yours can be so different in .5 grain increments. My load development is .2 grain, but when the shots open up, the pattern is mostly the same (or predictable) but groups open to .45 or so. I appreciate your work on these videos. I look forward to this time each week.
.38 inch group. He was poking that with a pencil lol. Some good shooting Johnny
I could not wait for this next video, can't wait for the next one by the way how the chickens
40gr vmax and 28gr of 748 was my go to groundhog load i used out to 700y... crazy fast and accurate
My Savage 12FV in 223 is one of my favorite rifles to take to the range. Any plans for a live chat in the future? Also any update video's on the pig's and chickens coming up?
Good video. I’m using the Lee collet neck dies for all my riffle loading (5.56, 6.5, 7.0 and 30 cal) using these to neck size after body sizing the brass with Hornady pro dies (without a sizing bushing or expander installed). The collet mandrel size for all calibers is .002” under bullet diameter so with the dies set tight the neck inside diameter provides exactly .002 neck tension. To verify how tight to adjust your collet die, use the mandrel from the die as a gauge in a sized case. Its should fit snug but should slide in and out.
As the Lee brochure points out, the advantage of this die is there’s no pressure applied to the body of the case when neck sizing so the concentricity of the body should stay with how it was formed by the riffle chamber and the bump applied is left untouched by the neck resizing. I get very consistent neck tension and runout under .002” total and dont have to worry about turning necks because the concentricity is based on the neck inside diameter and not the outside diameter. I do the double pass with the collets set very tight and when I do get a case with extra runout (1 out of 10 with good brass), with annealed brass several additional hits will usually bring these back into spec.
This may be why Lee collet dies get a bad rap from some reloaders, they simply aren't using them correctly. Lee collet dies don't need any special adjustment, you can just smash the crap out of the them and they size the necks perfect. People that try using them like they use F.L. dies are doing it wrong. You sir seem to have it figured out! You can't oversize with them, the mandrel just doesn't allow oversizing...
Great video!
Holy crap I believe I am having the issue with my brass not fire forming properly. Granted I’m running powder coated lead so my velocity‘s are low anyways. I can’t seem to get consistent numbers on my Hornaday case gauge. I always thought I mulberry just doing something wrong.
I am very surprised by the prices at Mighty Armory. I expected the prices to be higher based on the quality of the die Shannon showed in the video. My quarterly bonus is due in a couple weeks and I will be investing in a 223 FL die with primer pocket swager and a couple neck sizing dies.
Wow, super interesting Johnny. Gave me a lot of things to explore. I'm one of those people who is into super tight groups. One bullet I would like to see you shoot out of your grandfather's gun. Would be the Nosler, 55 grain vArmageddon PT's. That bullet has been absolutely awesome in every 223 I have shot. The only caveat I would say is that they my reloads
Lol same with me with the .204 same holes in a group are fun
Nice video! I just used these bullets to reload my Cooper M38 22 K Hornet with a 1:14 twist. They shoot good in it. I'm thinking of trying 42 gr. Calhoons next.
AA2015 is another great powder for the 40's, best accuracy will be at top end pressure, use a thick cup primer.
Seems each time the second set it five rounds printed a tighter group. Possibly due to barrel temperatures.
Or human error ?
If the brass body is expanding outward to fill the chamber it will also shrink the overall base to shoulder dimension. This could be part of the issue you're seeing. Try measuring the bodies in a few locations to see if the shorter cases have enlarged bodies.
Nice shooting, once again. That was some sick editing on the slow-mo reloading montage. How are the piggies and chicken?
Dadsalive here,hoping you and yours are ok. The chicken coop was close to a drainage area if I remember correctly.
Respectfully
Good stuff!
Looking forward to seeing this. JRB would you mind doing a video within these lightweight slugs out of your AR and if you have access to a Mini 14?
Much appreciated my friend, thanks for the info.
What I have been told with metals if you hit a piece super fast and soon hold the pressure long it will spring to shape and come back. With the same peice you can hit it softer but hold that pressure for a second or two it can hold the shape more without as much spring back. It's why some say to pause as you resize so it gives the brass time to form to shape. Also as you were closing the bolt it would stick. Could that be the bullet hitting the lands and holding the bullet then as you close the bolt its pushing the bullet deeper and maybe spinning the brass. Maybe make a dummy that has a sharpie on the bullet and neck. Chamber and see what it does. Maybe loose crimp but that bullet contact is 25% of the original contact.
I definitely think you get in your own head with tiny groups. “Don’t screw it up” always leads to a bigger group.
i think big SD numbers have more to do with just powder/powder charge, for example in this test you went as low as 4 something and as high as about 40 something. i think to get the super low sd/ES is more fine tuning a powder to the case volume/primer combo.
i enjoyed watching as always
Personally I think the placing from the primer is very important when there is difrence the SD will be bigger.
I'm glad I watched this. I recently ran into the situation where there was residue or soot around the base of the brass, actually a ring around the rim. Also the face of the bolt had the same soot. Never had that happen before.
I was using Hogdon H335. My rifle is a Savage 223 bolt action. I used the Barnes 40 gr Varminator, LC brass, Wolf primers, mostly because that's what I have.
It seemed to happen on the low end of the charges, at 25 grains. The brass was clean at the upper end of load development.
I couldn't figure out what happened, improper primer seat? No signs of pressure on the brass. The groups were all fairly consistent, not great but consistent.
The Lee collet mandrel is I think 0.222” in .223 dies. They assume 0.001 springback and target 0.001” tension. Edit; just measured and it’s .222”.
I watched a video by Eric cortina last night and he said neck sizing is crap pretty much.
Thanks for the content, I’ve seen the same fireforming several wildcats! Also it seems you break your cheek weld after nearly every shot… may try staying mounted for all 5 to see if that improves the groups
This outta be good!
n-133 is also great with the 50 vmax and the 52 gr ELD match
Low key small rifle primer having flex on us.
If you used a collet neck die, body die, and only ran brass length at the max or chamber, would you still need to trim? My understanding is most of the brass growth is during FL sizing.
Let's see what we kind of groups we can get with some seating depth test!
Loving the “artistic” camera shots with the music LoL
Great video as always my friend. What's the filler music you use? I could definitely rock some of that at the bench
Kinda want to see 40gr FMJ at 3500+ they will zip through armor
Absolutely have encountered this lack of fire forming in my various wildcats that require case forming when a new lot of brass is needed. I’ve found SD & ES are GARBAGE until all are uniformly fire formed. I saw on the neck sized middle charge, the SD creep all over and suddenly down to 4.7.
Moral of the story, if you’re plinking or shooting varmints neck sizing or FL hasn’t meant much to me in accuracy potential. Fully fire formed cases have shown differences that improved once full sizing was achieved.
Interesting on the 700 spring theory though…..🤔
I patiently will await your test to see if new springs are in my future.
Are you sure your firing pin is not too short, up until now you did not have a headspace measurement to compare with your brass. Excessive headspace can cause a weak strike on the primer as it also moves the cartridge forward in the same motion, therefore causing irregular ignition from one round to another. Having a correct headspace seams to give you better SD numbers, so why not use a primer that is easier to ignite such as a Win WSR primer and test it with a powder that had high SD numbers. Granddad always kept spare firing pins around for the Remington rifles he had due to tare and ware over long periods of time causes the pin to eventually fail. Check and see how far it sticks out the bolt face and compare to another rifle bolt.
I recommend the lee breech lock bushings for the neck sizer and crimper. I think they'll work with the hornady lock and load press
Just be aware that your seating depth will change when fired because when the firing pin hits the primer it’s going to drive the case ahead until it hits the front of the chamber so if you set your shoulder bump for -003 and you bump it to -.012 you changed your seating depth .009 big difference just saying
I get your theory but in reality not an issue. Unlikely for a firing pin to drive a case farther forward than the ejector is (or the extractor holding it). Changing your shoulder bump may have a chance to change where your ogive is in relationship to the lands, even though the seating depth may be the same, only if your case sholder is in contact with chamber. But bolt face and lands are "constant" so if your seating depth is base to ogive consistent then the case shoulder won't matter if its in free space away from the chamber shoulder.
2.260" maximum C.O.A.L. That extra .040" is not worth any small accuracy gain if you can't eject a loaded round. That could very well end a varmint hunting or range trip if you don't have a rod on hand. Another good reason to always have an Otis kit on hand, just in case. Their obstruction remover is worth it's weight in gold when you need it.
A fire forming video would be great. I’ve run into inconsistent base to datum line measurements in 308 and 6.5 with 6.5 even above max published loads. I’ve always guessed it was due to case hardness.
I like it with RL-10x at 3,500 fps on pdogs
Next stop: seating depth test !
Could it be the slight difference in the brass (metal itself). The spring back may be slightly different. The big question will be if it makes a difference on paper.
Try the 30 grain TNT solid copper bullets it's 4k fps or close too . Load h335 26.5 grains of powder.
john, ever measure actual temp of bbl, I've been running digital temp meter, thermocouple attached to receiver, bbl......
accuracy drops @ 125 +degrees....... what's your opinion?
Hey Johnny, Great video series on neck sizing. I am doing the exact thing with 55 grain Nosler BT and the groups have gone down a bit. Even after 3 times with the same brass, same result. I have come to the not so scientific conclusion that at least my brass should last longer versus Full Length resizing? Your thoughts?
Annealing will help with keeping the brass from hardening to much, also neck sizing will help your brass last much longer how ever you may have sticky chambering and will wanna bump the brass back down. (Manufactures of neck sizing dies in .303 british recommend neck sizing only due to lee enfield chamber tolerances) also you will have to toss brass eventually if your trimming quite abit cause you can get a case head failure or case failure cause trimming removes material and there will be thin spots in the brass from stretching. Seems to be primarily a Full length die issue tho.
While you were sizing, I noticed you had a set of 307 Winchester dies from Redding. Do you still have the rifle that fired that caliber? I have never seen one. If you do have it, it would be a great what's in the safe video.
The only rifle that ever chambered it commercially was a Winchester model 94. It is basically a rimmed 308 Winchester
So if the length to the shoulder is different, the distance from the bullet to the lands is gonna change then isn't it? Therefore your "seating depth" is gonna change effecting your groups potentially?
Will someone please answer this ☝️. I have heard conflicting answers as well.
@@aaron.from.winchester6744 I know the answer, it was more of a rhetorical question.
The farther you push the shoulder back the closer the bullet will be to the rifling when you chamber the cartridge. Its closer because the measurement from the base of the case to the ogive of the bullet stays the same, but the case goes farther in essentially.
If you have a go-gauge you can see how long that chamber is... add layers of tape to the head to make it longer...
308 168 grains. Still good video.
That neck sizing die setup and use looks haphazard, I would rather stick to full-length sizing.
I think your fireforming test may answer some SD numbers more than a firing pin will but pretty curious of those findings as well. As far as the case forming (or fail to fully form) test i would run up some of the 55s in new brass, and if you can test in multiple chambers to see if its a pressure or distance it takes to blow the case out. Like does 5thou and under only need one firing but if its more it takes 2 firings or is it once it reaches XX,xxx psi its sure to form.
I'd be curious to see the runout after using the lee die.
Very interesting ,buy not enough difference to make a difference. Not spending the extra money for .002-.003 group difference. If my groups were really bad. All my rifles are production guns nothing special. It's like they say knowing more and more about less and less.
👍💡☀️
A 50gr. bullet will give you more neck support. Also play around with bullet depth. You are doing well. All thow in order to know what and why. Try to make one change at a time. Select a case for testing. All sizing the same
👍👍. 🤙🤙
Shot marker look a little different than the shot camera. Do you ever check the size the targets and compare them to shot marker to see if it close to what shot marker says?
Wonder the results using the same weight from Burger, Sierra or Nosler?
I wonder if they didn’t fireform cuz the bullets were seated so little?? Just thinking out loud
Hoping you didn't end up with more rain than what you could handle.