Holy crap! So much geometry in maps I thought was redundant suddenly makes so much sense! Especially the dip down on dustbowl's second stage first spawn.
The oldest maps had great optimization because they had to run well on the Xbox 360 as well. By today's standards that console is very underpowered, so the bar was high on making sure things ran well.
Another point of such geometry is so you can’t shoot straight into someone’s spawn. There are some maps that do not do this, which allows for the occasional spawn camping.
@@lamegamertime Exactly. Two corners is more than enough in most games. In TF2 with grenades and explosives you may want the Z shape to be a bit bigger though.
There's a very good video that's similar to this one about how Valve very carefully designed their counterstrike Battle Royale map around these limitations. That map makes very clever decisions to make the map feel as big as possible while still minimizing the amount that's rendered at once. Like the fact that the whole map is on a large hill, so that means the only place where they have to worry about you seeing too much would be at the top, so it's easier for them to design around that one point than just any high point
Here's hoping that the map's creator finishes his rebuild of the entire map this year. It's looking promising, though I'll miss the giant wall of red text on the dev console that the current Wutville gives me.
@@medicindisquise4271 I hope the rebuild doesn't lead to the layout of the map itself being changed drastically. I actually really like how fights can get extremely hectic and intense because of the sight lines and various shortcuts in the map that both teams can take. If it wasn't for the awful spawn times and the poor optimization, I think the map would great.
I love this map, in an ironic way. Its bad, but I feel like it has heart, and has some intense fights at the chokes. Just please make it run better and fix the spawns.
I have a decently beefy PC that is able to run Wutville with only medium frame drops, so I actually liked it despite everyone else seeming to hate the map. For the longest time I thought the people who were complaining were just running TF2 on toaster hardware and that was why they'd get crashes so often. Holy fuck was I wrong. This map is just terrible.
I used to play on a mac for a long while before I got my PC and every time I got on that map I’d instantly crash, or worse, freeze, that map became a death trap for me
The first time I played on Wutville I throught it was one of those community map you play on community game mode like saxton hale. It was not polished like a "official" map
I don't mind the sniper sight lines since they force players to use the cover and shortcuts that are all over the map, making for some interesting encounters. Aside from the bugs and performance issues, I had a lot of fun playing medic on this map for the one time that I did.
Oh hey yeah, I actually made an edited version of wutville to fix its performance problems. Took me just one night, though it was the entire night. An 6+ hour rush for fun. Ended up getting hosted on (youtuber)Aar's community server where we were able to judge the map for its design, now that we had a framerate to play it with. Result: designed bad yeah lol
Kinda ironic you showed pictures of Mountainlab and Degroot keep when you were talking about optimization. Those two maps always run terrible for me at specific spots.
As someone currently learning to build games using unreal this is really interesting to hear how source renders detail. Also I'm shocked just how much the changing of fog alone makes the map look so much better.
I have no clue if the Version the Lazypurple silly servers use is the most updated but there is like a hole in the invisible wall where if you can launch youself up there you can get out of bounds and instead of blocking it off they just put killboxes in the out of bounds where that is. Not Even at the hole in the invisible wall so if you had like infinite jumps you could technically stay out of bounds or just chill in the opening where the hole is and fire down.
@Flyin' Steve It is his fault. He chose to work with Valve instead of saying "Pick a new map instead of this abandoned hellhole." "poor lad" What a joke.
@Flyin' Steve Still his fault. He should have just told Valve to fuck off and not work on the map at all. At that point, it would have been Valve's fault for not listening and deciding to add in an unfinished map.
I think the changing to low poly models actually simulates a sort of depth of field effect. Our brains know the low poly models indicate distance slightly. So when Wutville is nothing but pure high poly models, it looks like everything is in focus, making it harder to focus on what's close by.,
That is actually an incredible nod to artistic intent there sir. Many TF2 maps are built to have their backgrounds be visually out of focus, so that the fight in front of you is what catches your eye. An easy example is PL_Upward. I wouldn't blame anyone for not knowing background detail even exists, because its very simple and covered in a gentle fog. Doing everything it can to not distract you from the your objective and enemies, while still being really cool to gaze upon if you really wanted to.
You know, the game running better when you're not looking at a bunch of stuff always made sense to me, but I had no idea *why* it did until now. Thank you for explaining the weird magic that makes the game run.
I know how to do lod, but it would be a pain to do all the props, but it would be worth it This has encouraged me to start making lods and use other map optimization techniques
I honestly like how unfinished the map feels, it gives off the unfinished beta type thing that I really like. So I kinda like the non-fitting blue fog. But from a polish, finished map standpoint, the white fog is the best
i remember hating this map + it ran like shit, but after i bought myself a new PC + understood that the map is trying to replicate The Grinch´s "Whoville" is when i started loving this map, it had everything, the weird visuals, the weird house structures, the always ascending city and the loneliness and misteriousness of the city. It is really a great map if you think it that way, maybe as a tf2 map it ain´t perfect, but its fun as fuck. + i put sentries out of the second blu spawn from below the map, and fucking shit that was funny AF, so many good memories, my ex gf used to love this map too.
If memory serves the map creator has actually been trying to improve the map somewhat since it was included but Valve has been slow actually implementing them in the "official" version. I think even the initial release didn't use the then-most up to date version of the map for some reason.
Guess that explains why my frames dropped so much the one time I play... I thought it was just my computer, it does that a lot of the time Also, I didn't know hint brushes could stop props from rendering! I thought they were just the visleaves' clipping tool. Nice!
Another important thing to mention about hint brushes; a big problem with wutville is that it uses a lot of displacements, which don't count towards visual blockers. This causes visleafs to not be generated as a result. You actually don't need to place hint brushes and area portals all over the place as hammer is extremely good at building them itself during compile, as long as the map itself is well put together. Wutville looks more like they just went the amateur route of making the entire map be encompassed within a giant cube, instead of it actually being properly cleaned up and 'tightened'. I genuinely can't think of a reason why the basement is visible on the surface, outside of there not actually being any physical geometry between the two, like nodraw brushes. Forgetting to do that is a *huge* no-no. If he did that, then hammer's visleaf compiler would've automatically had those locations be culled.
The biggest problem is the large models themselves. Source can't use it to tell what can and can't be seen, so as far as the renderer is concerned, they're transparent. Having brushes inside the models would help _dramatically._
The one thing I can praise wutville for is being associated with Krampus and supposedly taking place around the time the comic where Spy, Soldier and Scout do Christmas community service
Didn't the creator of this map said HIMSELF that not only the map WASN'T FINISHED, but that he also made it as a JOKE just to see if Valve would add it (and they did... (facepalm)) ?
Thicker white fog would actually be quite good map theme, gameplay, and performance-wise. White fog fits the winter theme, it prevents the long sightlines which make snipers _INCREDIBLY_ overpowered, and the fog_controller can be set to have the game stop rendering stuff _completely_ beyond a certain distance using the far z clip plane.
Would it nerf snipers? The fog should adjust with the sniper's zoom unless I'm mistaken. This means the Sniper would be able to see you when you couldn't see him. It also means that people can see the cart from a distance without being seen. Meaning defenders have a massive advantage. You could all be soldier and launch a barrage of rockets without resistance.
literally every christmas event, people talked about wutville as synonymous with suffering both visually and playably, in conclusion valve brought out a rush map and poorly optimized and they should never have done it
I'm surprised it's an official map. Even the "orange" map varients are better designed; that map is like something you'd find on page 47 of the workshop when browsing "christmas". " *Wut* ville" is an apt name.
I found myself on wutville once, and despite this I had fun, I usually have major lag problems but considering all the bad stuff I've heard about Wutville it wasn't as bad as I expected, even as a Heavy
Black Mesa has similar terrible optimization like this in some of its maps which makes sense since that game uses a heavily modified version of the TF2 Source Engine.
I'm not sure why there isn't more fadeout considering the heavy opaque fog. That's a classic game design trick! All you'd need to leave would be props that form the skyline.
i heard/recall this map was rushed because valve contacted the creator soon before smissmas telling them the map, in an even less finished and polished state, would be in smissmas that year. i assume this is as far as most people's knowledge goes, but still i see people being outright mean sometimes when talking ab this map and insulting the creator, so was it really just that one sided?
I have a vr compatible computer that plays modern massive military sim games on max and I can barely run it when I get 140 frames in battlefield 1 and 14 on wutvill there is a issue
Me personally I think that with the dense fog and such, you could probably just cull it completely after a certain point, or swap it out for something lower quality.
My understanding of how to optimise maps in Source isn't very in-depth, but there's a few things that I feel like weren't mentioned here: The default visleafs that the compiler generates without any form of hint brushes, areaportals, etc, is actually not that bad (obviously it's not as good as manually doing it), the problem is that the compiler ignores certain things in its visleaf calculations. In particular, displacements and models. Basically the game will render what's behind a displacement or model even if it doesn't need to unless you manually do something about it, and given the absolutely massive amount of custom props in this map (all the buildings especially), the visleaf calculations simply do not work efficiently. It might be worth looking at how Valve designed the Blacksite map for CSGO's Danger Zone gamemode, because that map SHOULD'VE had similar issues - it takes place on a large open island made pretty much entirely of displacements, but by placing clip brushes inside the terrain it acts as a visibility blocker allowing the visleafs to work properly and block rendering across the entire map. Something similar might help Wutville, although I haven't actually played Wutville and don't really know how it's designed (it might already use skyboxes or something to block areas off from the renderer, just badly). Blacksite might be a good case study in general since the layout of that map is designed to go up in the center, allowing the clip brushes under the ground to effectively create a staircase upwards and carefully prevent the game from rendering too much. I'm going to guess most (maybe even all) of the ground in Wutville is displacements and that's probably a huge part of why the game is rendering so much through the floor as well, which again could be fixed with some pretty simple tweaks to the layout. Unfortunately I think most of the performance issues are kinda unavoidable without significant terrain reworks because most of the map looks pretty flat without any significant elevation changes to block the rendering of other areas It's possible I've got a few things wrong here, kinda tired and my memory is a little hazy plus Source optimisation isn't something I've spent a lot of time doing, so feel free to tell me if I'm wrong with anything. The "rendering everything" seems to me like it's the main problem, the other smaller issues are likely not impacting frame rates as much as that alone is, and it can be pretty easily fixed with some attention and care put into the map's layout
The creator didnt wanted this map to be put out he knew it was not finished and had problems and even offered valve to take some of his other creation but of course they took his unfinished map
Kinda like dustbowl, 2fort or turbine, it's kinda bad but actually good, damn you can have some fun there, atleast personally on december I had overall a pretty good time there! There was also that skybox glitch, but I don't know if he fixed it, it was pretty funny.
from what ive heard the reason wutville is so awful in every aspect is because the creator had made the map like 6 years ago and valve randomly aproached him saying "hey were gona use this map in TF2 and you have 6 days to fix it up for us" he had 6 days to fix the massive sniper sightlines, the awful optimisation, the uglyass look. everything.
Yea, the map was added for its unique winter estatic, thats still holding true to TF2´s wacky style. I mean, the universe has its own version of santa, who then got killed by a kid. I think most of the work was poured into making the map in the first place. You can´t expect professional level of work in community content anyway. What makes porting over community content always a hassel.
@@dippythehippy - The sightlines makes one of the strongest classes even stronger while weakening many. - Glitches being added in an already glitchy game isn't an excuse for more glitches - It literally isn't playable for some people or runs poorly enough it makes you physically ill on a old game
@@Buglin_Burger7878 these points do not seem to me to be the reason people dislike the map. I am not saying the map is well made, merely that it is fun despite its flaws,
I think wutville is a cruel joke by Valve on the idea of "automatic workshop maps in map pool", thought, after all this criticism I think the map would've drop of the pool anyways...
Hint brushes could've been explained a little more in detail, but that's okay. Oh, and areaportals weren't discussed at all. Then again, I don't think the map has any to begin with...
another issue with the map is just how much of it is props to begin with, but this itself wouldn't matter much if other optimizations were in place. don't hate on the map's creator though! it was one of their very first maps, and had been abandoned for years when valve picked it up.
I seem to like maps that everyone else hate's my favourite maps are: 2fort turbine wutville dustbowl etc in that order my computer's good enough that I never experienced the poor optimization kinda sucks though that valve never bothered to playtest/optimize it themselves
6:49 yes the white fog looks good but thats probably to balance snipers scopes. I mean, the map creators probably noticed the sniper problem far in development so what they did to bandage it was to simply add fog, bad balance change I know
Holy crap! So much geometry in maps I thought was redundant suddenly makes so much sense! Especially the dip down on dustbowl's second stage first spawn.
The oldest maps had great optimization because they had to run well on the Xbox 360 as well. By today's standards that console is very underpowered, so the bar was high on making sure things ran well.
Another point of such geometry is so you can’t shoot straight into someone’s spawn. There are some maps that do not do this, which allows for the occasional spawn camping.
@@lamegamertime Exactly. Two corners is more than enough in most games. In TF2 with grenades and explosives you may want the Z shape to be a bit bigger though.
There's a very good video that's similar to this one about how Valve very carefully designed their counterstrike Battle Royale map around these limitations. That map makes very clever decisions to make the map feel as big as possible while still minimizing the amount that's rendered at once. Like the fact that the whole map is on a large hill, so that means the only place where they have to worry about you seeing too much would be at the top, so it's easier for them to design around that one point than just any high point
Found it
ua-cam.com/video/EYDaIKIoOkw/v-deo.html
From what I've heard, the map's creator's main skill set it modeling objects, not actually designing maps or texturing.
god, that's like telling a plumber to build a house
@@cheddartaco or telling a gamer to exercise
@@DaKingKayden it can be done easily: everytime you die in a FPS, you do 1 push up.
@@Mima_the_vengeful_spirit bro I still want to play... not just exercise
@@terrastalker8189 TF2's spawn times are long enough I guess :D
You know your maps bad when people use Dustbowl as an example on how to make your map better.
LUL
I like dustbowl :(
Dustbowl is a great map though.
@@rideorhitchhike3347 dustbowl is ass, like all old maps are
@@uwuLegacy Disagree but I respect your opinion.
Here's hoping that the map's creator finishes his rebuild of the entire map this year. It's looking promising, though I'll miss the giant wall of red text on the dev console that the current Wutville gives me.
Wow, I really hope the map gets the rebuild it deserves. Because at this point it needs a rebuild to be optimized properly.
@@medicindisquise4271 I hope the rebuild doesn't lead to the layout of the map itself being changed drastically. I actually really like how fights can get extremely hectic and intense because of the sight lines and various shortcuts in the map that both teams can take. If it wasn't for the awful spawn times and the poor optimization, I think the map would great.
I love this map, in an ironic way. Its bad, but I feel like it has heart, and has some intense fights at the chokes. Just please make it run better and fix the spawns.
I like wit ville for the same reason so many people like 2fort and dustbowl, yeah it’s poorly designed but I can’t help but love it in a way
i love terrible things that barely work and wutville is exactly that
@@thoonk5160 impossible, he would have to remake the entire thing
Thats the reason they brought it back (even with the bugs)
@@thoonk5160 I mean 2fort is designed pretty okay in my opinion
I have a decently beefy PC that is able to run Wutville with only medium frame drops, so I actually liked it despite everyone else seeming to hate the map. For the longest time I thought the people who were complaining were just running TF2 on toaster hardware and that was why they'd get crashes so often.
Holy fuck was I wrong. This map is just terrible.
If just by looking at it you couldn't tell it's a sub trash tier map, then you're braindead.
I really do feel bad for the creator, it sucks to know even some funny meme map you made years ago on the work shop can just be added to the game
I used to play on a mac for a long while before I got my PC and every time I got on that map I’d instantly crash, or worse, freeze, that map became a death trap for me
This made me burst out laughing
The first time I played on Wutville I throught it was one of those community map you play on community game mode like saxton hale. It was not polished like a "official" map
As a mapper myself, this video explains how optimisation works extremely well.
Aside from sniper sightlines, it is a good map. But like mentioned here, it needs optimizations
I don't mind the sniper sight lines since they force players to use the cover and shortcuts that are all over the map, making for some interesting encounters. Aside from the bugs and performance issues, I had a lot of fun playing medic on this map for the one time that I did.
Oh hey yeah, I actually made an edited version of wutville to fix its performance problems. Took me just one night, though it was the entire night. An 6+ hour rush for fun. Ended up getting hosted on (youtuber)Aar's community server where we were able to judge the map for its design, now that we had a framerate to play it with.
Result: designed bad yeah lol
Kinda ironic you showed pictures of Mountainlab and Degroot keep when you were talking about optimization. Those two maps always run terrible for me at specific spots.
Those maps are also needlessly huge
man this video needs more views. nicely done.
As someone currently learning to build games using unreal this is really interesting to hear how source renders detail. Also I'm shocked just how much the changing of fog alone makes the map look so much better.
This was a good vid. If only they would apply these changes, it'd be more tolerable for a lot of people.
I have no clue if the Version the Lazypurple silly servers use is the most updated but there is like a hole in the invisible wall where if you can launch youself up there you can get out of bounds and instead of blocking it off they just put killboxes in the out of bounds where that is.
Not Even at the hole in the invisible wall so if you had like infinite jumps you could technically stay out of bounds or just chill in the opening where the hole is and fire down.
Yeah let’s make a map that utilizes NONE of the optimization tricks to help the map run better
@Flyin' Steve it was only a week
@Flyin' Steve It is his fault. He chose to work with Valve instead of saying "Pick a new map instead of this abandoned hellhole."
"poor lad" What a joke.
@Flyin' Steve Still his fault. He should have just told Valve to fuck off and not work on the map at all. At that point, it would have been Valve's fault for not listening and deciding to add in an unfinished map.
I think the changing to low poly models actually simulates a sort of depth of field effect. Our brains know the low poly models indicate distance slightly. So when Wutville is nothing but pure high poly models, it looks like everything is in focus, making it harder to focus on what's close by.,
That is actually an incredible nod to artistic intent there sir. Many TF2 maps are built to have their backgrounds be visually out of focus, so that the fight in front of you is what catches your eye. An easy example is PL_Upward. I wouldn't blame anyone for not knowing background detail even exists, because its very simple and covered in a gentle fog. Doing everything it can to not distract you from the your objective and enemies, while still being really cool to gaze upon if you really wanted to.
I remember the lighthouse map took YEARS to get added but this thing seemed just suddenly dropped in
You know, the game running better when you're not looking at a bunch of stuff always made sense to me, but I had no idea *why* it did until now.
Thank you for explaining the weird magic that makes the game run.
Such an informative video, I will keep those things in mind when creating my own maps!
I didn't know about TF2's rendering engine until now. Visleafs and hint brushes are actually really clever, it's cool to learn about them.
I know how to do lod, but it would be a pain to do all the props, but it would be worth it
This has encouraged me to start making lods and use other map optimization techniques
I honestly like how unfinished the map feels, it gives off the unfinished beta type thing that I really like. So I kinda like the non-fitting blue fog. But from a polish, finished map standpoint, the white fog is the best
i remember hating this map + it ran like shit, but after i bought myself a new PC + understood that the map is trying to replicate The Grinch´s "Whoville" is when i started loving this map, it had everything, the weird visuals, the weird house structures, the always ascending city and the loneliness and misteriousness of the city. It is really a great map if you think it that way, maybe as a tf2 map it ain´t perfect, but its fun as fuck.
+ i put sentries out of the second blu spawn from below the map, and fucking shit that was funny AF, so many good memories, my ex gf used to love this map too.
Poor wutville, now it's just kicking a dead horse
Excellent malaphor my dude.
So in other words, this map is great! As a source of everything you shouldn't do when making maps in the source engine.
If memory serves the map creator has actually been trying to improve the map somewhat since it was included but Valve has been slow actually implementing them in the "official" version. I think even the initial release didn't use the then-most up to date version of the map for some reason.
Srry wutville cant back you up sorry bread space to i pray for the developers
Guess that explains why my frames dropped so much the one time I play... I thought it was just my computer, it does that a lot of the time
Also, I didn't know hint brushes could stop props from rendering! I thought they were just the visleaves' clipping tool. Nice!
TF2: the 14 year old game that needs next generation hardware to run properly
I appreciate the Etho reference in the intro
Thank you for the detailed insight, that was very interesting :)
Another important thing to mention about hint brushes; a big problem with wutville is that it uses a lot of displacements, which don't count towards visual blockers. This causes visleafs to not be generated as a result.
You actually don't need to place hint brushes and area portals all over the place as hammer is extremely good at building them itself during compile, as long as the map itself is well put together. Wutville looks more like they just went the amateur route of making the entire map be encompassed within a giant cube, instead of it actually being properly cleaned up and 'tightened'. I genuinely can't think of a reason why the basement is visible on the surface, outside of there not actually being any physical geometry between the two, like nodraw brushes. Forgetting to do that is a *huge* no-no. If he did that, then hammer's visleaf compiler would've automatically had those locations be culled.
Succinct, simple, and well explained.
The biggest problem is the large models themselves. Source can't use it to tell what can and can't be seen, so as far as the renderer is concerned, they're transparent. Having brushes inside the models would help _dramatically._
The one thing I can praise wutville for is being associated with Krampus and supposedly taking place around the time the comic where Spy, Soldier and Scout do Christmas community service
Didn't the creator of this map said HIMSELF that not only the map WASN'T FINISHED, but that he also made it as a JOKE just to see if Valve would add it (and they did... (facepalm)) ?
Thicker white fog would actually be quite good map theme, gameplay, and performance-wise. White fog fits the winter theme, it prevents the long sightlines which make snipers _INCREDIBLY_ overpowered, and the fog_controller can be set to have the game stop rendering stuff _completely_ beyond a certain distance using the far z clip plane.
Would it nerf snipers?
The fog should adjust with the sniper's zoom unless I'm mistaken. This means the Sniper would be able to see you when you couldn't see him. It also means that people can see the cart from a distance without being seen. Meaning defenders have a massive advantage. You could all be soldier and launch a barrage of rockets without resistance.
gonna be real. I love the way wutville looks.
Really ripped Wutville to shreds and then shat on its corpse
literally every christmas event, people talked about wutville as synonymous with suffering both visually and playably, in conclusion valve brought out a rush map and poorly optimized and they should never have done it
Dude
I'm surprised it's an official map. Even the "orange" map varients are better designed; that map is like something you'd find on page 47 of the workshop when browsing "christmas". " *Wut* ville" is an apt name.
wutville gives off the exact vibe of a map on some dudes community server thats solely in rotation because he/his friend made it
I found myself on wutville once, and despite this I had fun, I usually have major lag problems but considering all the bad stuff I've heard about Wutville it wasn't as bad as I expected, even as a Heavy
Wutville looks like the christmas hellhouse
Yo Dom can you make an Best to worst weapon on L4D2? :D
I'll love to see your own opinion :)
Black Mesa has similar terrible optimization like this in some of its maps which makes sense since that game uses a heavily modified version of the TF2 Source Engine.
I'm not sure why there isn't more fadeout considering the heavy opaque fog. That's a classic game design trick!
All you'd need to leave would be props that form the skyline.
i heard/recall this map was rushed because valve contacted the creator soon before smissmas telling them the map, in an even less finished and polished state, would be in smissmas that year. i assume this is as far as most people's knowledge goes, but still i see people being outright mean sometimes when talking ab this map and insulting the creator, so was it really just that one sided?
I thought I am the only one who have heavy fps drop from that map.
I have a vr compatible computer that plays modern massive military sim games on max and I can barely run it when I get 140 frames in battlefield 1 and 14 on wutvill there is a issue
hopefully we get scout fps drops at some point
Me personally I think that with the dense fog and such, you could probably just cull it completely after a certain point, or swap it out for something lower quality.
My understanding of how to optimise maps in Source isn't very in-depth, but there's a few things that I feel like weren't mentioned here:
The default visleafs that the compiler generates without any form of hint brushes, areaportals, etc, is actually not that bad (obviously it's not as good as manually doing it), the problem is that the compiler ignores certain things in its visleaf calculations. In particular, displacements and models. Basically the game will render what's behind a displacement or model even if it doesn't need to unless you manually do something about it, and given the absolutely massive amount of custom props in this map (all the buildings especially), the visleaf calculations simply do not work efficiently.
It might be worth looking at how Valve designed the Blacksite map for CSGO's Danger Zone gamemode, because that map SHOULD'VE had similar issues - it takes place on a large open island made pretty much entirely of displacements, but by placing clip brushes inside the terrain it acts as a visibility blocker allowing the visleafs to work properly and block rendering across the entire map. Something similar might help Wutville, although I haven't actually played Wutville and don't really know how it's designed (it might already use skyboxes or something to block areas off from the renderer, just badly). Blacksite might be a good case study in general since the layout of that map is designed to go up in the center, allowing the clip brushes under the ground to effectively create a staircase upwards and carefully prevent the game from rendering too much.
I'm going to guess most (maybe even all) of the ground in Wutville is displacements and that's probably a huge part of why the game is rendering so much through the floor as well, which again could be fixed with some pretty simple tweaks to the layout. Unfortunately I think most of the performance issues are kinda unavoidable without significant terrain reworks because most of the map looks pretty flat without any significant elevation changes to block the rendering of other areas
It's possible I've got a few things wrong here, kinda tired and my memory is a little hazy plus Source optimisation isn't something I've spent a lot of time doing, so feel free to tell me if I'm wrong with anything. The "rendering everything" seems to me like it's the main problem, the other smaller issues are likely not impacting frame rates as much as that alone is, and it can be pretty easily fixed with some attention and care put into the map's layout
This was told since this map came out (like 1 or 2 years ago). Did they really not fix it.
that was a over a YEAR ago? covid has gone by faster than i thought.
Wutville is a meme and we should’ve gotten another map.
Hint brushes shouldn't even have been required, it's like the map was built on vvis fast if that's the visleaf output
If it didn't run like trash and wasn't so linear I would actually like it, tbh I find the grating colors a bit charming
the fog feels better IMO, because it makes seeing in the distance more difficult.
Classic community maps: Huge confusing mazes of high resolution nonsense with a horrible inbred hybrid of Casual and competitive.
The creator didnt wanted this map to be put out he knew it was not finished and had problems and even offered valve to take some of his other creation but of course they took his unfinished map
This map was the one that made me completely give up on TF2 mapping.
Wutville is a glorious mistake. So many hours jumping under the map and laughing my ass off at how broken it is.
Title:
Me: The Grinch.
Wutville?! More like "Wut the hell were the dev's thinking when they added it"!
I have a better question, why was that map on the last winter too, there was many video about this topic already in 2020 winter event.
Kinda like dustbowl, 2fort or turbine, it's kinda bad but actually good, damn you can have some fun there, atleast personally on december I had overall a pretty good time there!
There was also that skybox glitch, but I don't know if he fixed it, it was pretty funny.
from what ive heard the reason wutville is so awful in every aspect is because the creator had made the map like 6 years ago and valve randomly aproached him saying "hey were gona use this map in TF2 and you have 6 days to fix it up for us" he had 6 days to fix the massive sniper sightlines, the awful optimisation, the uglyass look. everything.
me with somehow 60-120 fps on wutville: wtf
I like how over time this map gets worse and worse.
Yea, the map was added for its unique winter estatic, thats still holding true to TF2´s wacky style. I mean, the universe has its own version of santa, who then got killed by a kid. I think most of the work was poured into making the map in the first place. You can´t expect professional level of work in community content anyway. What makes porting over community content always a hassel.
can also just fix a lot of this map by going into the uvs and shrinking them down like please why are the textures so dense
Author of this map have ragequit tf community, so dont blame him. He did a pretty looking map.
wutville is the best recent map I think. it's so fun I don't understand how people can dislike it.
-broken
-full of glitches
-bad optimization
@@iv0453 -Broken in what sense
-full of glitches just like tf2
-it is poorly optimised but is still playable
@@dippythehippy - The sightlines makes one of the strongest classes even stronger while weakening many.
- Glitches being added in an already glitchy game isn't an excuse for more glitches
- It literally isn't playable for some people or runs poorly enough it makes you physically ill on a old game
@@Buglin_Burger7878 these points do not seem to me to be the reason people dislike the map. I am not saying the map is well made, merely that it is fun despite its flaws,
one more thing, the creator of the map is a modeler
I think wutville is a cruel joke by Valve on the idea of "automatic workshop maps in map pool", thought, after all this criticism I think the map would've drop of the pool anyways...
I think I’m the chosen one whenever I join wutville my fps increases
Really informative vid!
That explains everything
i play on a corei3-2,6ram,intelhd3000
and that map was running SH1T
Genuinely never heard of this map
Hint brushes could've been explained a little more in detail, but that's okay. Oh, and areaportals weren't discussed at all. Then again, I don't think the map has any to begin with...
Who else is getting this after the x64 bit update?
wutville moment
another issue with the map is just how much of it is props to begin with, but this itself wouldn't matter much if other optimizations were in place.
don't hate on the map's creator though! it was one of their very first maps, and had been abandoned for years when valve picked it up.
the true question is "who asked for this map?"
It's almost like the map was never finished and Valve threw it in any way, not giving a shit.
wutville looks like crud but that's what is so hilarious about it.
Honestly at this point shouldn't even the most average of computers be able to run and render the entire map at one time without even skipping a beat?
Integrated graphics
The map has actual effort into it but if were comparing it to dustbowl then yeah something is wrong there.
The second I played my first Wutville game my eyes hurt
It was BAD
I seem to like maps that everyone else hate's
my favourite maps are:
2fort
turbine
wutville
dustbowl
etc
in that order
my computer's good enough that I never experienced the poor optimization
kinda sucks though that valve never bothered to playtest/optimize it themselves
imagine putting func_areaportals on this map...
hell
i wouldn't say it's poorly optimized- it's not optimized at all.
Great video
What there they smoking when they made that map. It stings my eyes
6:49 yes the white fog looks good but thats probably to balance snipers scopes. I mean, the map creators probably noticed the sniper problem far in development so what they did to bandage it was to simply add fog, bad balance change I know
ok... so its not a great map, but after a while I grew to really enjoy playing on it.
Jokes on you,my pc is so bad that every map runs like trash
Wutvile has no pros only CONS
Only pro: woohoo christmas
the map isnt that bad, i feel like the guy didnt even expect valve to add his map
@@Dr_Dan_ He obviously didn't.His map is from 2013 or 2014