He makes great guesses narratively, but gameplay wise he can be a bit of a dunse. Outer Wilds is just luckily one of those games where understanding the narrative helps you understand a lot of the gameplay.
I’m glad this was uploaded with chat-when I was watching the vods it added a lot to the experience seeing chat react to the “1%” situations as well as the silly bets.
Honestly the chat was so annoying most of the time. When he first entered the secret flame room with the artifact everyone was like “???? Why is he not just doing the right thing what? ?? ??? He should know how???” Like he obviously didn’t learn how to do that yet like I don’t know what chat was in the entirety of this video. Everyone who was chatting when this was live, let’s just say yikes for their brains haha.
@@SamMcPieVTOL Or, there is a loud minority of chatters that are dumb/annoying, and everyone else is actually pretty cool/funny. Your glass half empty mentality is kind of lame in my opinion. Why not just ignore the dumb people and enjoy the funny people?
@@SamMcPieVTOL I haven’t watched it yet, but my guess is that he will learn the right solution then ignore it. Give me a few hours to get to that point
As someone who has encoded long ass streams with chat vods onto them I also massively appreciate it because it’s a pretty large amount of extra time to insert it and encode the file which is why most vods don’t bother.
@@SamMcPieVTOL tbf, he did everything there except press the one right button. He literally pressed doze off twice while there but not when he was holding the artifact
@@LightsEnd304 are you... playing dumb? They literally die in the digital world from the water putting out there flame in the real world..... it's literally part of one of the puzzles...
We were placing bets in chat on whether you’d manage to break the game before it teaches you how. I was so happy to see you gradually Joe the DLC like you did the base game
@@milindshah4438 it's more that he reached certain conclusions by accident the the game is supposed to teach you. Edit: the actual "this is how you glitch out" part of the game he didn't figure out
Took me way too long to figure out how the aliens were able to see in the dark so well. They’re part owl. The candles were probably industrial lamp’s to them.
Looking back, I think the murals depicting their home are set at night, but are much brighter than the darkness the player sees in the sim. Presumably, how bright they see it.
After watching this stream I had a few thoughts about how the DLC went: For one, the mention of "playing this game for yourself and not getting it spoiled" definitely rings true, but I'm personally glad that the first stream I saw was Joe's way back when he did the base game. Ever since, it's been an absolute treasure to watch other people play it and come across the story their own way. It definitely is a game that everyone should play, and it truly is a shame I didn't play it for myself first. The other thing I was thinking of was how lackluster the ending of the DLC was for this playthrough. I saw another playthrough of it that was almost 90% or more, and it felt more "complete". Like how at the end, Joe met the Prisoner without really knowing who they were, or what they had done. The Prisoner explaining everything was the first time Joe learned of it (other than some of his 90000IQ guesses which were spot on most of the time). Whereas in the more complete playthrough, it felt more like a quest to rescue the Prisoner instead. This makes the ending scene, with the raft going into the sunset, so much more powerful. What was most frustrating for me was that my favorite of the vaults was totally missed! The emotional sucker punch of "there are dead people in the simulation who are still alive" is such a powerful storytelling moment that Joe just missed (2bigbrained4puzzles I guess). It also is my favorite cause it adds to the horror of the entire simulation, as the ghosts in the machine (literally) probably don't know they're dead, or don't care. It adds such an amazing sci-fi horror element of "life after death". But still, I'm glad I was able to watch the VOD. Very good stream(s) overall.
The owls definitely know they’re dead, they took the doompill and decided to live in their VR homeworld rather than fully understand what the eye represented
Nothing in the game tells you definitively that there's a prisoner in the Vault until you meet them, though? Like, the missing dude by the second fire, the scratched out portrait in one if the houses in the ringworld, and the burned out building in the simulation with the eye symbol and the telescope are all strong foreshadowing, but that's not much to go off of when it comes to making predictions. The only major reveal Joe missed was the purpose of the containment thing, but even then he ultimately understood what the deal with it was. I agree that it would have greater payoff if it was established a bit earlier, but it's really not that big of a deal. The bigger nitpick to make here, I think, is that he skipped both of the "serious" stealth sections (and all the setup required) by discovering the information they were supposed to guard through experimentation. I personally found them quite tense (although I did play them before they got nerfed), and I'd say the forbidden archives and the whole sequence with the vault would've felt much more earned had he put in that extra work. But then again, most people I've seen play the DLC found them more frustrating than scary or fun, so it's entirely possible that it would only sour his overall experience. Plus, I kinda liked how he wasn't expecting much going into the vault and then was hit with that beautiful scene.
If he had to skip one archive, it’d have been best if it was the lantern one. The loading zone one shows what the owlk’s did to their home world to get there (and also gave him the 1 mechanic he couldn’t figure out), and the death one shows the ‘ghosts in the machine’ thing you mentioned, as well as the the fact the owlks jammed the eye’s signal, which adds a lot of impact to the discovery that the prisoner disabled it which allowed the Nomai to get there.
omg I love Joe, but man is seriously shown this beautiful ring world where he's thrown into it white water river rafting and decides to hop off and go look at a MAP for his first cycle.
2:08:59 - The water level actually *is* level before the dam breaks. The massive flood you get afterwards is the water flowing downhill in a circle. And if you were to throw a ball straight toward the ring's center, it wouldn't land on you. This is because the down force doesn't come from real gravity, it comes from artificial gravity created by rotating the whole ring world, and that gets skewed a bit so it's angled in the direction of rotation. Basically if you were standing still on the ground and the whole ring suddenly disappeared, you would be flung out in the direction you were already going (i.e. the rotation of the ring up to that point at the point where you're standing). The ring is just forcing you back in at every moment. So imagine freezing time, then cutting the ring apart where the dam is and unrolling the whole thing. The water level would be a straight line, not parallel to the unrolled ring but perpendicular to the artificial gravity.
That's also where the water current comes from; the water is actually remaining relatively still while the riverbed moves underneath it ! If you stand on a raft and look at the solar sails outside you'll notice that they're "spinning" at the same speed as the water current.
@@LitchiBorrower The water current comes from the pumps in the two tunnels that lead to the reservoir. Neither centrifugal force nor Coriolis force can create the current you see in the game as friction would have long since stopped the current relative to the cylinder. Also, the game kind of fakes the G-forces involved. The cylinder should be spinning five times faster to create that level of artificial gravity but I guess they must’ve play tested that and found that people couldn’t easily enter the docking bay at that rotation speed.
I love watching people play this game, even joe here, but he has the strangest methods by far. Honestly most of his "discoveries" were entirely by accident. I feel bad that he was so confused at some areas but at the same time he was confused because the game was telling him "do this" and he just ignores it and decides to climb rocks. It worked out in the end though
i was excited but this was thoroughly frustrating XD IDK. The devs DID make a lot of assumptions when making this DLC, personally I think my playthrough went probably in the exact order they intended for people to play it in. But Joe is incapable of playing games normally and constantly sequence breaks and finds glitches in every game he plays and ruins the intended experience so thats probably why he didnt enjoy the DLC as much as the base game. The base game was harder to sequence break than the dlc. which again, could be argued as a flaw in the DLC, and it kind of is, but if joe would just play the game and not try to break shit so much then he probably would have had a better time. I know games should be designed around every possible player's experience, so the devs did fail for players to all experience this story in the same way because they didnt account for people like joe. but joe does it on purpose, which for some reason irritates me a bit XD Giant shocking moments in the DLC are really anticlimactic here because he just discovers random stuff constantly, then finds the game telling him how to do it later and was like "hmm this is not new information". He is a masterclass troll, even knowing he does it on purpose and it still irritates me. Props to him tbh.
I find the feedback many people offered for this playthrough rather troubling. The theme is "he skipped X% of the DLC". To me, the defining characteristic of Outer Wilds is not its setting or its story. Although those elements are indeed fantastic, the essence of Outer Wilds is that it is a game about emergent gameplay. So many things are set up in such a way as to MAXIMIZE the odds of players doing things out of order. It is the same quality that generates most mystery stories: the pieces were there along, you just had to connect the dots. If the connections were subtle, then you will feel a sense of achievement if you manage to figure out the ending before the story itself inevitably gives it away. And if you don't, you get to experience a sort of magic trick, this multitude of details being slowly assembled right under your nose just to suddenly reveal a completed mosaic during the climactic end. The key here is that neither of those outcomes is necessarily superior. They are different kinds of enjoyment, they are both valid. To give some examples: it appears to me that going into the Spirit World by dying before getting the hint is something the developers seem to have set up. The water turning off the lanterns in the nearest church is a way to figure out the secret room before the hint. So let us presume you "stumbled" onto one of the artifacts overtly placed in the ghost matter house, and you then learn of the secret room from the flooded church. So on a new loop, you grab an artifact, make your way to the room and think "so what now?". You MAY just go ahead and click the buttons available at the campfire with the artifact in your possession, leading to you entering the Spirit World through sleep, which would be a cool moment of discovery. Or, you might see the dead owls and use the following reasoning: "all these birds have a lit artifact. All these birds are dead. Therefore, being dead will activate my own artifact". So you kill yourself in the fire. And both of these methods do in fact work. To me, it appears that the developers were keenly aware of the possibility of scenarios like this and tried to nudge players into situations where they were likely to make correct guesses with vague clues. The second example is the "debug world". Dropping the lantern is another behavior that is subtly encouraged by the game in various ways. The fact that water putting out your flame kicks you out. Or perhaps even more obvious, that the owls snuff out your light rather killing you directly when they have the option. We know both have identical results, so why do the owls bother leaning in when they can snap your neck like a twig? I would wager that a good part of the reason is that the devs wanted you to ask yourself: "wait, if they kill me by snuffing out my light, can I become invulnerable to them if I just leave it behind?". So you might attempt to test that guess, only to find the debug world. tl;dr The game wants you and encourages you to sequence break. If you can skip hints by figuring stuff out yourself, that serves to add to your experience, and it can be a more interesting pay off than simply following the linear breadcrumbs to the end. Yes, you miss some scripted content, but quality art and story are a much more common resource in gaming than eureka moments you craft for yourself. In my book, Joe could have scarcely gotten a better experience than he did.
I used to be really frustrated by streamers sequence breaking, but now I've come to the same conclusion. In my eyes, the "intended path" is more of something for players to fall back on when they can't figure out the puzzles. The game straight up gives you the solution to certain puzzles if you look at it in a certain way, but still does so in an organic and unobtrusive manner. This rewards both exploration and critical thinking with progression.
Ah yes. The intended way of climbing a janky tree to get atop the 2nd fireplace tower. Scaling up the side rocks near the window to try and get to the building to which the bridge is broken. I don't personally mind streamers not seeing every hint and finding out stuff by trial and error but intentionally bashing your head at an imaginary wall of clearly not intended way to get stuff done isn't really enjoyable to watch, especially when Joe clearly sometimes gets frustrated at the game because of his own lack of knowledge on how to tackle a problem when he'd be given more info by exploring elsewhere. Like there isn't any things in Outer Wilds that I can think of that you can't do the easy way. Like getting to sun station, you CAN land the ship on it but you can also just use the teleporter. Getting to the teleporter for sunstation: yeah you CAN fly through the cactus maze of death, or you could just arrive there when the sand is still high and have a far easier time getting through. If something feels hard to do in this game, there's probably some other way to get it done that you haven't thought of because you lack critical information. Sure go ahead and bash your head at that wall if you don't want to explore but why get frustrated at the game for choosing to play that way.
I like how he learns that you can fall asleep instead of dying to enter the simulation, but still wants to assert his dominance by dying anyways, then goes ”but i can’t exit since i’m dead?” Never change Joe ❤
Oh man I didn't realise I missed this being streamed live. I was there for "Eskel is this normal" and I'm sad to see I wasn't there for Echoes, but I know this will be something for me to chew away at after I finish the RE8 streams. Got so much love for Outer Wilds.
Well, that's your own fault for not having the [ *insert party approved number* ] of totally great "vaccines" ^^ But in all seriousness, I hope you have a speedy recovery.
@@nanashi7779 he's an anti-vaxxer or pretending to be one, meaning he's either an absolute chode or someone doing a spot on impression of one. In the case of the former, you're never going to get a good response from him so don't bother, and in the latter it's rude to ask him to break character to spoil the joke.
if someone wants to see a playthrough with no skipping and no accidental puzzle solves, I recommend About Oliver. He goes into the information the game provides so deeply, that he does an entire half an hour session about one slide reel for example. He figures out the entire plot and gets invested into the characters.
One of my favorite things that joe does is he’ll spit out an absolutely wild out of pocket theory that makes no sense and then immediately afterward say a different theory that’s somehow 100% accurate. Idk how this happens every time.
watching joe play games you love is so difficult sometimes, watching joe play games you dont care about is hilarious. this was such a stressful but entertaining experience
Absolutely legendary series of streams o7 Shame that the Steins;Gate fakeout had to be removed, chat went mental back then lol. Here's hoping Nodja's archive will feature it
Joe's the kind of guy to explicitly go against the DM plans and try to derail everything to see how the DnD campaign will change for him, instead of trying to work with him to craft a better story.
@@cucumberjoe6824 It ruins the game if you intentionally try to break things, if you go too far off the rails the GM will have nothing concrete to work with and will basically just be improvising. This can lead to fun moments if done sparingly, but do it too much and the entire narrative structure will fall apart.
I've seen a lot of complaints about the tower puzzle, but I'm glad to see someone else who thought the lights were a code. That the dream world affected the real world was never an issue for me, but the fact that in the hint they show lights being turned off AND ON definitely makes it seem like a particular sequence is required imo.
This was definitely the most unique route I’ve seen someone go through the dlc I especially loved how Joe would go from the hidden gorge to the canyon to they a lantern instead of the light room lmao. One thing I sorta get is that the Owlk’s method of communicating feels a bit gamey. That was sort of my initial impression as well. But I sort of look at each race’s communication as being distinct from one another, down to how they all perceive the eye. For the Nomai they quite literally visualized signals that we (humans and Hearthian) convert to audio. The Owlks themselves communicate visually as well but that was mostly for their written records, as they perceived the eye almost telepathically through visions. And that ties into their “dream world” simulation’s construction. As for the Hearthians we perceived the Eye’s signal through audio and that goes into how much importance the race as a whole places on music. To the point where every traveler has their own distinct audio signal conveyed through song. And the eye uses all 3 of these forms of communication to reach out to the Hatchling. There’s also some neat ties with each race and the number of eyes searching for the Eye of the universe. For a game whose message in part revolves around the importance of observation, that’s a really potent detail I think. Especially since the Owlk’s show how easy it is to obfuscate and hide truths and histories from curious eyes. To the point where they rewrote much of their history to make themselves out to be victims of the Eye’s treachery, distancing themselves from their own wrongs like destroying their home moon, and containing the Eye’s signal, as well as imprisoning one of their own.
I found it interesting, how many viewers considered learning things out of order a game breaking thing, when it is the consequence of the core mechanics of the game. If the game is the same state and progress is only made by the player acquiring information by exploring and trying new things, it is highly probable that most players won't get the "full experience" since they will skip steps. The base game handled that better, by having a few bottleneck puzzles (to reach ATP). And just to be clear, that's different than the glitch jump in Joes base game playthrough. He is a glitch seeker though, that was evident from his the cyberpunk play (and to be honest, glitch seeking in cyberpunk is a form of completionist gameplay, so it is understandable). I enjoyed the experience nonetheless, it is good to watch again. Is there a chance of you playing the Longest Journey games? I wonder, how popular is that game in the twitch chat community.
A big part of this is that the parts Joe skipped are the most controversial bits of the DLC. From the perspective of fans who respect his opinion, seeing his reaction to, and hearing his eventual take on, those bits was a something they were looking forward too.
But Joe literally missed like 5 or so rooms of the DLC, maybe 8? and I think at least 3 slide reels. I dont see the problem with pointing this out as not getting the full experience. And he missed what the DLC does for the ending. I mean come on. It's clearly less than 80% of the DLC he experienced. Depending on how you look at it, he missed an entire third of the DLC.
@@bodbyss Well, the ending could've been replayed, true. But I just don't see, how he could've got the full experience without looking it up beforehand. The game can be completed storywise without all reels, so he really needs to be a completionist to go back. And I guess, for a review he would replay it.
@@koboDresden Yeah I dont know either. Its' just Joe's style to fuck around and then accidentally get rewarded for it. There was 100% no reason for him to kill himself on the fire, and no reason to try to poke slightly through the quantum moon fog clouds and accidentally glitch through an entire puzzle without learning the solution, and no reason to try to walk on the rocks around the tower of light when he knew that wasn't the intended solution. I'm sure there's other examples that I'm forgetting. Putting down the artifact and walking away is understandable so I didnt include that in my paragraph. But in this case I'm just pointing out how entire puzzles, entire sections of the game are bypassed and not even seen because Joe is almost as interested in breaking the game as he is in solving it. I dont really understand why he engages in penetration testing for games like this. Cyberpunk, sure I get it. But not here. Im glad he enjoyed himself though. It would have sucked if he didn't.
It has been investigated. Joe on the discord said that if he had known about the bet during when the bet was live, that he would've considered it invalid. But by the time he understood what Pissgate even was, like a day or two has already passed.
Joe loves to stress-test games and I think I share a little bit of that. "What happens if I do this thing most players won't think to do?" "Did the devs account for this?" "I'm finding out a way to go THERE no matter what, whether the devs intend for me to get there now or not, whether the devs intend for me to ever get there, whether or not there is or will be an intended, logical, easier way to do it revealed later on." I also saw my same tendency to scour for things I worry about missing. Running my character's ween along every inch of every wall for a code or reel or something and worrying about leaving before I found it. But not long into the DLC I let go and trusted the game, trusted the devs. If something that appeared out of reach seemed important, I trusted that I'd be led to it eventually. I stopped worrying about finding the password after the first one. I stopped trying to race clock trying to get to areas with barely enough time to explore, and by the last third, I knew better than to, for example, try to search the entire dreamscape in debug mode, that the right moment(s) to do so would be made apparent in due time. I fought all my tendencies because I trusted the devs to have thought of and curated the right kind of experience as long as I do anything and everything I wanted while still keeping that 6th sense on if I was about to sequence-break either by discovery or by creative use of the landscape to get to "inaccessible" areas. I stumbled on a few discoveries before I had the back-information to know the context and in those moments, which I actively tried to avoid, I got good at backtracking and waiting for things to unfold properly - not to avoid confusion or spoilers, but because I didn't want the experience ruined for me. You really only get one shot at that with games like these. Some of the biggest and most interesting revelations were potentially if not actually watered down due to Joe's wont to experiment, which again makes him a kindred spirit to me. I completely understand and it's an even harder urge to fight when the base game in its own way actively *encouraged* fucking around and finding out. In his defense, how is he supposed to know what information he's meant to discover on his own and what information will be fed to him later? How is he meant to know that the abandoned temple code is much later and far away even though the module code was within feet of the of its panel? It can be a though line to walk. For any game dev other than Mobius I'd say the key to both success and optional enjoyment is to trust. I did that and I think I got the most out of EotE because of it.
I will also say I immensely leaned on my ships computer in my approach. If an area didn't have an asterisks next to it, I left it alone and didn't come back without some revelatory new information. The entries also helped me with know what details to hang on to and which ones to ignore, making for steady progress without stalls, deviations or detours, or accidental, unknowing sequence breaking. Shout out to Ship-Chan for real. But if you decide never to read Ship-Chan (which I fully endorse) and there is not one single word in the DLC you're playing, only pictures and videos in the way of communicating to the player, unlike the based Nomai, then there's going to be far more room for abstracting, sometimes in the wrong direction, sometimes too far/quickly in the right direction.
Watching streams like this one always serves as a strong example of how a game can be experienced massively different by different people. Some people are creative and can intuit meaning from art more easily, while others are better at more practical experience, and still others are patient and take a game one step at a time, and so on. This has a definitive effect on a person's overall impression of a game, and most likely whether they enjoyed it or not. I am pretty good at intuiting the types of puzzles and clues that are in this game, but I am terrible at the stealth sections and puzzles that are more about practical effects rather than interpretation of art. I absolutely loved Outer Wilds and this DLC, it is practically tailor-made for me personally, with regard to my strengths, interests, etc. However I can totally see why it is just not for some people, and why others just don't get much from the experience. The things I loved about it can be the same things that others hate about it.
when they were making the game they knew that they were minmaxxing for a specific type of gamer while almost 'throwing away' all the other types. its kinda interesting to hear from their perspective, if ur curious i'd recommend watching Kelsey Beachum's (the lead writer) talk at GDC
I'll be honest, I was loving the stream but about halfway through the 2nd stream (went to watch it on twitch because chat ruins the YT version for me) I got super bored, it started feeling like he spent too much time throwing stuff at the wall trying to see what sticks. It kinda felt like he was just breaking all the rocks until he found one with a moon in it It's fine I guess, he was exploring mechanics and ways to play them, I just wish he explored the world and story instead I can understand playing a lot of games like that, but I don't understand playing OW in this way since its incredible quality hinges entirely on exploring the world, piecing the story together and most of all, being spoiler free You have one shot to play this game for the first time, Joe even says it repeatedly
Yeah, as much as I love watching Joe play things, I had a really hard time with parts of this. If that's how he enjoys playing things, that's good for him, but trying to break a game experience like this, when you know it's something you'll never see for the first time again, and just flat ignoring a huge chunk of the content to brute force something, is frustrating to watch as someone who absolutely loved the dlc.
It's super irritating how he will immediately gravitate towards the most interesting thing he perceives and completely ignore everything else. As soon as Joe sets foot in the Stranger he gets introduced to a brand new whitewater rafting mechanic, several houses to explore and instead chooses to walk on foot to the nearby dam because he identified that the game designers put something important there. It's possible to be TOO genre savvy for your own good.
After watching his playthrough of the base game, your comment doesn't even surprise me. He kept trying to brute force everything for some reason. I'm glad I read the comment section of this video, because I will probably pass on it because his playthrough of the base game just annoyed me.
@@Churahm I have an absolute blast watching Joe play games I'm not interested. Streams of him playing silly anime games? Gold. But yeah I have a hard time watching him play games I love. Glad there wasn't an elden ring stream, I'd probably not be able to watch that either.
I don't get why he consistently tries to break the game only to then be upset when he does. He spent literally 4 hours trying to land on the Sun Station even when told by the game that you can't. And to what end? Skip a puzzle? We saw what happens when he did succeed in breaking the game when he rammed his face in between every two rocks on the Quantum moon and managed to no-clip glitch through the puzzle. He immediately felt bad for breaking the game. Now he dances around the fire to his death while holding the artifact and mashing buttons and didn't know if he just accidentally broke the game again, souring his experience. It just feels like he would rather enter every combination on a 4 digit code rather than play a puzzle game normally, then get upset when he misses the puzzle, and I don't know why someone would do that.
God himself could come to earth and tell me that piss break loop should count and I would still think people got screwed by counting that in the bet. Gambling and its consequences....
I am absolutely glued to these videos, I absolutely love this game. My god Joes gameplay frustrated the living hell out of me, but at the same point I love his thought process a lot of the time. For example when he was talking about “two different factions that either supported or hated the eye” that was such an interesting concept that I hadn’t thought about during my play through, and even though it was wrong I can 100% see how, with the information he had, he could come to that conclusion. But that’s also part of my gripes, his lack of information and his play style around that. The “brute force” method has never been something I’ve liked to see in games, especially an information heavy game like this. The point of the video that had me absolutely crying was getting atop the tower by jumping up the tree, I don’t get why he always thinks things are a parkour challenge. I do feel he doesn’t have much of an interest in information gathering, which is cool and all but for a game that really relies on having knowledge, it doesn’t seem to suit his play style. But all that being said, watching the stream brought back great memories of playing through the game and it’s DLC, always wishing I could replay it all from blank again. I kind of wish Joe would voice his thoughts more often, as im sure he has a lot of interesting things to say, but more often than not we, as an audience, don’t always see things from his perspective, because he’s not giving us his perspectives. At least there’s not hours of flying into the sun this time *phew*
Yeah, for me the most frustrating part of watching these vods is when something happens he outright refuses to say anything, react, or otherwise tries to defy expectations for a personal laugh. I think chat’s behavior - the paranoia over everything Joe says and does, claiming he played wrong, getting upset over tiny bullshit - is a direct result of this; He may get a kick out of it but he’s biting himself in the ass and he doesn’t even realize it. Chat wants him to enjoy the game, but he shuts down nearly every moment for an internal giggle and chat can’t tell if he understood what happened, if he liked it, and sometimes if he was even paying attention at all which on rare occasion actually happens. The enjoyment for let’s plays comes from seeing how people react and hearing what they have say about it or other things, and in every vod I’ve seen so far he denies this almost completely, only rarely breaking to say a couple things. It’s very frustrating.
Hey Joe, only caught the first stream so you might've already figured this out but the dam only starts to break once the stranger starts to move away from the sun. Guess it uses too much power or shakes the ship or something but it bothered me as well and thought you'd like to know.
Yep. I assume its caused by the trauma of the solar sails opening. Normally it would probably have been fine, but a millennia of decay meant that the dam was much weaker at that point. Another couple centuries and it probably would have broken on it's own without the sail opening.
There was a line in the chat of the first stream that went something like "Imagine having one chance to experience this and you spend it sequence breaking", and I mean... yeah. The playthrough was a blast at first, but by the third stream it was getting somewhat frustrating, but in a sad (rather than mad) kinda way. It felt like when you try to tell someone a joke and they just guess the punchline on a whim. The game had so much of spooky atmosphere and clever puzzles left to offer, but guessing stuff and doing it not the intended way has weakened all of its charm. I understand that it's bound to happen to someone if you structure a game like this, but still.. I really liked this DLC, almost as much as the base game, so I feel bad when someone doesn't get to see it in its full glory because of some messing around. So I wanted to vent off this frustration a bit and offer my perspective to the people wondering why some found it frustrating like I did. Still, this comment is not to hate on you Joe, as you're not to blame for any of this. So thank you for streaming this! It was still a very entertaining watch.
This is a really good way to explain this, I feel the same way. When Keith Ballard played, he never ever entered the dream world via the submerged structure, and as a result he had to figure out the Cinder Isles tower purely through trial and error. He then complained about how obtuse it was. Seems like it's difficult to stop players from accidentally robbing themselves of a more enjoyable experience.
But imo that doesn't really impact anyone, you're getting frustrated that his experience wasn't a curated tour through every nook and cranny of the dlc, but forcing anyone to do that takes away from their enjoyment of the game. Things like the tree jump are so much more memorable because he chose to explore and do it himself.
@@dinukrajapakse2218 I'm not saying it's impacting anyone, and I'm not here to force a certain playstyle onto Joe (or anyone else playing). What I'm saying is that the game has a lot of good stuff that is skipped by randomly guessing, and I'm sad that Joe (or anyone else who skipped it like that) didn't get to experience it and may end up liking the game less because of it.
@@maxperson188 This is a very narrow view of what makes OW and the DLC enjoyable. Even more cringe to present it in such a condescending way ("imagine ruining your only first playthrough"). Joe clearly enjoys the game for it's freeform exploration and puzzle solving, being able to intuit things from context clues or randomly expetimenting random ideas until something works. His first playthrough was riddled with this, from figuring out Anglerfish are blind without looking at the fossil, to his infamous sun station landing attempts, to 1%. It's very condescending to say he ruined his first playthrough when he clearly enjoyed his time with the game specifically BECAUSE the game is not so linear as to force you to experience it in one way
@@stevenagelutton4322 I never presented this as a definite ruining of Joe's experience. If someone enjoys this sort of playstyle then by all accounts they are free to play in whichever way they like, Joe included of course. I was just expressing the way I felt from this playthrough tho. I feel the game is at its best when your playthrough aligns just right with one of the possible ways it's intending to lead you. That's when the cleverness of its design shines, when you feel it all "click together". Is that really so bad I feel this way? My view may be narrow, but it is a view nonetheless.
Previous gaming experiences that have had legacy gamers jumping in deadly pits, walking into fake walls, and otherwise putting secrets in the most unlikely of places has really added a challenge to designing modern games and has effectively turned legacy gamers into QA testers lol. This game put so much effort into making key things stand out with scene framing, lighting, big bright shiny things, audio queues, etc, and legacy gamers just ignore the super obvious and obsess over the tiniest of details and overthink the most trivial things. It's really frustrating sometimes lol. Regardless, that legacy skill also allows for some of the most big brained problem solving skills.
i'm happy you uploaded it with chat as it was previously! Thanks for the great experience, a little sad you didn't see everything on stream. I really want to see this video on it
6:07:15 it's comments like this that make me wonder if Joe is kidding or stupid or somehow both at the same time. He told himself he would die after using the wrong lantern in that same part of the stream.
I have a thought: it's very probable that marshmallows that the protagonist eats at a campfire are all the same ones, since loops. It's like an infinite pizza. It's like emergency tree seeds, but emergency marshmallows
I enjoy watching people play Outer Wilds and his story is definitely one of the most unique I've ever seen. The player is intelligent and logical. It is fun watching smart people plays. However I think Joe is on the less adventurous side when it comes to exploring. Experimenting with the game mechanics seems to piqued his interest more. And that leads to him finding out about the "not-rendered world" early on. Regarding to the "skipping" part. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Bacause this game is driven by player's curiosity and Joe's curiosity had driven him to experiment stuff and he discovered the "glitch". However it's rather unfortunate that I didn't get to see him doing the stealth section or seeing him "Click" with the story more before he reach the Prisoner. btw he didn't even bother going to the eye lmao. I just hope he does it off streams.
This was hilarious and frustrating as all hell to watch. He found so much ON ACCIDENT on hunches. Then when the game is showing him ACTUAL SOLUTIONS, he disregards them. AGH!
2:31:20 The wild thing is when I played this the cave was so obvious to me that when I found the house that gives you the x-ray of the cave like "HERE BE ENTRANCE" I thought "well there's no way that's what that means, it must be some super hidden invisible bridge out in front of the tower that I have to shine a lantern on to make tangible! Yes, this makes perfect sense!" and spent 3x as long as Joe here trying to find that invisible path. 2:51:20 I got almost every achievement my first run for all the wrong ways to do things due to trial and error *yet I never thought to do this.* True Joe-tier genius. It's only not an achievement because even the developers couldn't grasp Joe's brilliant thought process.
I love how the game keeps blatantly telling him to do something and he just completely ignores it and jumps on a rock or something and accidentally discovers something way too early
even i managed to skip a lot of the ways you are "supposed" to learn things about opening the vault, but i still went through the entirety of the DLC and explored every area, i enjoyed the game too much to leave any stones unturned. Hope joe did the same if not on stream then off stream.
@@1993JoshG it's usually when he reasons out a puzzle without using the hints where people will do that. People happy that he figured something out with out help, when many of them (myself included) needed to access the games more direct hints and pointing to puzzle together what to do. aka he is number 1 cogniferous streamer
I love how Joe takes a look at the boats and the town architecture like 1 hour into the DLC and correctly correctly guesses that it has been designed for comfort and then proceeds to not understand the main mechanic for 3 hours
[02:50] I wonder if there are people who didn't liked Outer Wilds because there is a time limit and continuous restarts. I am one of them, and yes I know many game's puzzles are time-based and wouldn't work otherwise, and the plot is also connected to time. When Joe began to play it on stream I was intrigued and tempted to switch the stream off and play it by myself, up until the point when, to my disappointment, I realized there is a time-loop and forced restarts. Yet, still, I've had great experience watching a playthrough of it though.
I'm not much of a big fan of time limits usually. But to be fair most areas of the game are accessible within like 2-3 minutes of the start of a 22 minutes loop, and those that aren't need to be accessed only once or have a hidden shortcut to make sure you can get there faster on future loops. Time is hardly a constraint in this game, and more of a tool for world/puzzle building.
To be frank, this playthrough just was not that enjoyable to watch due to the amount of sequence-breaking there was instead of following the trail of clues (which led to missing a significant amount of content and sequences). I understand that this will happen a few times for a lot of players just trying things out (e.g. I tried to lure the pursuers to the artifact by leaving it on the ground as an attempted solution to a stealth sequence, which led to discovering that whole thing early), and I appreciate thoughts of "what happens if I do x" like blowing out all of the candles on the raft, but actively and repeatedly trying to do these things out of context, looking for an outcome when you KNOW that you finding it that way wouldn't be intended, is just so uninteresting to watch over and over. For a puzzle game that you're really only going to get to experience one time, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to engage with the clues presented to you to try and solve a riddle, but instead repeatedly attempt to bruteforce an alternate and blatantly unintended path (feels Quantum-Moon, man). I dunno. If this is a way that's more fun to play for some people (despite knowing that this is a puzzle game with narrative elements surrounding its clues), then power to them, but it made for quite a boring watch for the second-half of the playthrough.
I found the leaving the artifact stuff by thinking "what if I do this?" and almost did the same with the raft early on by blowing out the candles in the cave just thinking "what happens if I make it entirely dark?" but was like 1 second too late (didn't realise this at the time). Didn't try it again and moved on. Even if I had found out all of this just by being a curious cunt I'd have still done the whole game instead of skipping so much like this dude does.
This is a message to anyone angry that joe is skipping stuff: you need to note 2 things: 1: Joe never, at any point skips something major in an unintended way. Everything he does is accounted for in the games mechanics. This is not another "glitching to the north pole" situation. 2: He loved the DLC. He played it his way, discovered the secrets his way and, even though he misses a lot of context for the story, STILL came out the other end with a very enjoyable experience and positive review. That's a pretty incredible feat to accomplish when it can cater to both a player like you and a player like him. Joe just talks a lot of shit and trolls chat a LOT. He also doesn't really engage with the emotional tone of a game in the way the game intends. (For example, making anime jokes contantly through what the game is clearly presenting as somber and emotionally charged moments through the slide reels. Or not engaging with spooky content.) Not outwardly anyway, he very clearly appreciates the story on its merits but just doesn't present that when playing with chat. It was the same for his base-game playthrough. Joes playstyle is weird and if i was 10 years younger i would say he's playing these games wrong. But he's not, hes just having his kind of fun and thats why i always play a game first before watching him stream it. I can play it my way then watch how he does it his way and see how wildly different the experience is for him. His anime jokes and chat trolling are really just not funny 90% of the time though. I'm on your side there.
I don't think anyone would argue that he didn't have fun. It's more that a lot of people didn't have fun watching. Pretty much the only kind of "replayability" for this game is through watching someone else play. If he skips a lot of the sections that you, as a player, enjoyed when you played the first time, then this is where the frustration comes from. I believe that a lot of people just want to experience this game again through someone else's playthrough, and get annoyed when he doesn't experience some key moments at all because he skipped them intentionally or not.
"He also doesn't really engage with the emotional tone of a game in the way the game intends" This is an explicitly bad quality to have as a critic btw
Thats first point actually isnt true on two seperate occasions, 1.Joe brute forces his way INTO A TREE to get on top of the cinder isles tower (seems pretty unaccounted for to me but ok), 2. Joe literally walks around and very frequently uses unintended paths around the stranger and the dream world to get to places he isnt supposed to be in (let us see first him getting to the dam on HIS FIRST LOOP, and second how Joe LITERALLY Skyrims his way into the tower in the dream world to get to the candle puzzle which he tried and failed to brute force). i get your points but the first one was just untrue.
Yeah, I love ya Joseph but this let's play was...interesting. All power to him if he enjoyed it, but the constant stream of trying and succeeding at breaking this DLC was frustrating to watch as a viewer, especially given it removed a lot of the emotional impact of freeing the prisoner. I noted one commenter here said that Joe has a habit of breaking moments by making quips or not reacting at all and that really came out a lot here. The vision cutscene is meant to be a combination of sad and hopeful, the poorly timed jokes really threw me off. Not completing the ending again after freeing the prisoner was also a really odd choice. Maybe he was tired or maybe didn't feel that connected to the plot of the DLC? I for one rushed my ass off to the ATP as soon as the next loop started. Again, this is all my perspective of how I personally enjoyed this lets play as a viewer.
[Spoilers] I had the ending messed up, too. I started on a new save. I had re-explored the comet, though, so that was there. When I left the vault, I didn't see the vision torch with the vision of the boat. Also, I got a spoiler that there was a character named "The Prisoner", so I knew there was someone inside the vault.
That was pretty obvious from the start IMO but I thought it was supposed to be someone left behind to go kill the Eye, that the Owls had a plan to do that. The real ending was much more melancholic.
Not quite IMO. Base game had a bunch of different destinations you could go to and for most of it there was always something new to do in those directions. Here, the start of the loop is always exactly the same. Set market, fly straight up, auto pilot, dock, go in, grab artifact, get to fire. Over and over and over again. I adore this game and dlc but that started to get really grating.
Crazy how good of a game critic he is considering how fixated he is on breaking and skipping as much of them as he can. Its like a movie critic fast fowarding, watching films on mute and only reading subtitles.
not comparable at all. video games are an interactive medium and most games, especially open-ended ones like outer wilds, allow for a wide range of ways to experience it. joe's highly personal bruteforce-y and sequence breaking playstyle is completely valid and supported by the game. fast forwarding through a film or watching it on mute i think we can say are objectively invalid ways of experiencing it, at least when it comes to critical analysis, because you're either directly not experiencing large chunks of the film, or leaving out the soundscape which is a major aspect of film as a medium. you can say "well joe skipped through a lot content here", but again, games are a fundamentally different medium. it's accounted for by the devs that some players will miss content. every player's experience is different, which is not really something we can say about mediums like film (people can certainly interpret things in a wide array of ways, but the actual content being experienced remains consistent)
Then again with elden ring, he did the opposite and played the most boring (to me) vanilla way possible, ignoring 95% of the game mechanics. just to be clear, I love Joe, currently watching a 12 hour playthrough of his, not trying to hate on him, just think it's silly how differently he approaches different games.
@@leftovernoise yes, I know. He never does his second playthrough with chat or anyone as far as I know. Only first one or some kind of "causal one, not for video" is done on stream. I dont know why is it relevant.
The video title is misleading, he sequence broke half the game and by the end of the final stream he still had not discovered any slide burning rooms. We will never know what he would have thought of the hand-crafted progression the developers made. Sure, he had fun forging his own path, but could he have had a more enjoyable experience without having to guess random things without context? We'll never know.
But in a game like Outer Wilds there is no sequence breaking. You could say he sequence broke by dying on the fire, but he was simply interacting with things in the room trying to parse together what to do. I've seen other people die on the fire because they see the owls dead and think it'll work for them. Did they sequence break too? If they did then the fault lies with the DLC for allowing such a solution to the puzzle, if they didn't then what defines sequence breaking? The feeling of having solved a puzzle? A puzzle game where all the rules are abstracted will never have a set path due to the nature of the puzzles, especially in one like Outer Wilds, so there isn't really the ability to sequence break, barring genuine glitches like Joe's Quantum Moon voyage. And honestly, had I taken his route through the DLC my experience would've been ten times better. He "skipped" some of the worst parts of the whole DLC
@@Pikaton659 I think the problem comes from players' backgrounds. I have a background in playing puzzle games, especially community-made maps in Portal 2. I have consistently found that following the intended path through a puzzle is more satisfying and rewarding than breaking it with exploits. Every game has unintended exploits, they're interesting once and then you get bored of them quickly. The developer's intended experience, however, is a unique and hand-crafted, it gives you something new and meaningful that isn't just random accidental stuff that could happen in any game. That was what I enjoyed so much about Echoes of the Eye, the intended experience was so well-made that it easily surpassed any exploits or sequence breaking for me. What people often complain about in the DLC is actually them trying to brute force things in ways the developers did not intend, and in fact I never tried such things myself as I felt clear signaling that they were not intended. The game is very clear about when you are supposed to approach certain areas, I just did everything in the order that felt most natural and never encountered any frustrations at all. By the time you get the the one and only required stealth section, you fully understand the mechanics of the AI and can exploit them to your advantage, making it a hilariously trivial task to get past them. Following the intended progression led to me having a very enjoyable experience with zero frustrations and lots of appreciation for the game. So when I see other players do things that are clearly not fun and which can be done in literally any game, it makes me wonder why they even bothered to play the game at all.
@@pingas469 The base game doesn't make "logical leaps" like what happened in this stream. There's plenty of parallel paths in the base game that you can follow with small step by small step without having to guess anything.
@@LB_ The game doesn't give you any sort of hint for the 'bottleneck' puzzles though, and eventually you can run out of parallel paths without even knowing it. What this amounts to is running around looking for clues that don't exist. Not to mention the quantum mechanics don't even work in a logical way, which can make reaching the quantum moon quite a hassle if you're running on the assumption that the game will follow its own rules.
Y'all people are so crazy. You think he ruined the ending for himself because he figured some things out on his own and skipped some inconsequential slide reels? (The starlit cove slide reel literally just shows how they built the simulation.) It was a great experience for him, and figuring things out on your own is part of the game, not just blindly following bread crumbs. The game gives you many hints to figure out the glitches yourself, the alarms literally have you wake up to see the unaffected dead owls. And I think it's weird how people deride Joe's way of playing the game when you can hear the absolute glee in his voice upon figuring something out. He sounds so happy it makes me watching happy as well
His playthroughs never fail to make me feel simultaneously much smarter and also much stupider than him
He makes great guesses narratively, but gameplay wise he can be a bit of a dunse.
Outer Wilds is just luckily one of those games where understanding the narrative helps you understand a lot of the gameplay.
Introducing humans, we are all better and worse at something
he has to be doing it for content, ain't no way bro gets so confused with the simplest of things 😂
I’m glad this was uploaded with chat-when I was watching the vods it added a lot to the experience seeing chat react to the “1%” situations as well as the silly bets.
Honestly the chat was so annoying most of the time. When he first entered the secret flame room with the artifact everyone was like “???? Why is he not just doing the right thing what? ?? ??? He should know how???” Like he obviously didn’t learn how to do that yet like I don’t know what chat was in the entirety of this video. Everyone who was chatting when this was live, let’s just say yikes for their brains haha.
@@SamMcPieVTOL Or, there is a loud minority of chatters that are dumb/annoying, and everyone else is actually pretty cool/funny. Your glass half empty mentality is kind of lame in my opinion. Why not just ignore the dumb people and enjoy the funny people?
@@SamMcPieVTOL I haven’t watched it yet, but my guess is that he will learn the right solution then ignore it. Give me a few hours to get to that point
As someone who has encoded long ass streams with chat vods onto them I also massively appreciate it because it’s a pretty large amount of extra time to insert it and encode the file which is why most vods don’t bother.
@@SamMcPieVTOL tbf, he did everything there except press the one right button.
He literally pressed doze off twice while there but not when he was holding the artifact
Trying to light the fire in the artifact with the marshmallow is the best part of the stream imo
I honestly wish that would work. I understand why it doesn't, and the devs may have even thought of it, but it's still kind of a shame.
I tried that too, actually.
@@umyum3858 I'm still pissed that there's no way the player can blow out the artifacts of the sleeping strangers before going into the dream world...
@@mechanicalmonk2020 it wouldn’t do anything if the fire goes out, there’s no “link” because they’re already dead
@@LightsEnd304 are you... playing dumb? They literally die in the digital world from the water putting out there flame in the real world..... it's literally part of one of the puzzles...
We were placing bets in chat on whether you’d manage to break the game before it teaches you how. I was so happy to see you gradually Joe the DLC like you did the base game
Is there a timestamp where he qctually broke it
Clicking on this video expecting exactly this
@@milindshah4438 He starts at around 0:00
@@Jonassoe pretty much lol
@@milindshah4438 it's more that he reached certain conclusions by accident the the game is supposed to teach you.
Edit: the actual "this is how you glitch out" part of the game he didn't figure out
Took me way too long to figure out how the aliens were able to see in the dark so well. They’re part owl. The candles were probably industrial lamp’s to them.
and without you, i would never figure that, thanks lmao
Looking back, I think the murals depicting their home are set at night, but are much brighter than the darkness the player sees in the sim. Presumably, how bright they see it.
While everyone's playthrough is different, this is definitely the most unique one I've seen.
don't know if it's "unique" in a good way or a bad way tho
Maybe slightly too much of the stream was the real-life version of that meme comic, "joke's on them, I'm only _pretending_ to be retarded."
@@SunsetChannel both
After watching this stream I had a few thoughts about how the DLC went:
For one, the mention of "playing this game for yourself and not getting it spoiled" definitely rings true, but I'm personally glad that the first stream I saw was Joe's way back when he did the base game. Ever since, it's been an absolute treasure to watch other people play it and come across the story their own way. It definitely is a game that everyone should play, and it truly is a shame I didn't play it for myself first.
The other thing I was thinking of was how lackluster the ending of the DLC was for this playthrough. I saw another playthrough of it that was almost 90% or more, and it felt more "complete". Like how at the end, Joe met the Prisoner without really knowing who they were, or what they had done. The Prisoner explaining everything was the first time Joe learned of it (other than some of his 90000IQ guesses which were spot on most of the time). Whereas in the more complete playthrough, it felt more like a quest to rescue the Prisoner instead. This makes the ending scene, with the raft going into the sunset, so much more powerful.
What was most frustrating for me was that my favorite of the vaults was totally missed! The emotional sucker punch of "there are dead people in the simulation who are still alive" is such a powerful storytelling moment that Joe just missed (2bigbrained4puzzles I guess). It also is my favorite cause it adds to the horror of the entire simulation, as the ghosts in the machine (literally) probably don't know they're dead, or don't care. It adds such an amazing sci-fi horror element of "life after death".
But still, I'm glad I was able to watch the VOD. Very good stream(s) overall.
The owls definitely know they’re dead, they took the doompill and decided to live in their VR homeworld rather than fully understand what the eye represented
Nothing in the game tells you definitively that there's a prisoner in the Vault until you meet them, though? Like, the missing dude by the second fire, the scratched out portrait in one if the houses in the ringworld, and the burned out building in the simulation with the eye symbol and the telescope are all strong foreshadowing, but that's not much to go off of when it comes to making predictions.
The only major reveal Joe missed was the purpose of the containment thing, but even then he ultimately understood what the deal with it was. I agree that it would have greater payoff if it was established a bit earlier, but it's really not that big of a deal.
The bigger nitpick to make here, I think, is that he skipped both of the "serious" stealth sections (and all the setup required) by discovering the information they were supposed to guard through experimentation. I personally found them quite tense (although I did play them before they got nerfed), and I'd say the forbidden archives and the whole sequence with the vault would've felt much more earned had he put in that extra work. But then again, most people I've seen play the DLC found them more frustrating than scary or fun, so it's entirely possible that it would only sour his overall experience. Plus, I kinda liked how he wasn't expecting much going into the vault and then was hit with that beautiful scene.
@@Dan0RG i absolutely agree with them though, like he basically speedran the ending and that was a complete letdown to me given the basegame.
Isn't it blatantly obvious that the people inside the simulation are dead? You see their corpses. With lanterns lit.
If he had to skip one archive, it’d have been best if it was the lantern one. The loading zone one shows what the owlk’s did to their home world to get there (and also gave him the 1 mechanic he couldn’t figure out), and the death one shows the ‘ghosts in the machine’ thing you mentioned, as well as the the fact the owlks jammed the eye’s signal, which adds a lot of impact to the discovery that the prisoner disabled it which allowed the Nomai to get there.
omg I love Joe, but man is seriously shown this beautiful ring world where he's thrown into it white water river rafting and decides to hop off and go look at a MAP for his first cycle.
2:08:59 - The water level actually *is* level before the dam breaks. The massive flood you get afterwards is the water flowing downhill in a circle. And if you were to throw a ball straight toward the ring's center, it wouldn't land on you.
This is because the down force doesn't come from real gravity, it comes from artificial gravity created by rotating the whole ring world, and that gets skewed a bit so it's angled in the direction of rotation. Basically if you were standing still on the ground and the whole ring suddenly disappeared, you would be flung out in the direction you were already going (i.e. the rotation of the ring up to that point at the point where you're standing). The ring is just forcing you back in at every moment.
So imagine freezing time, then cutting the ring apart where the dam is and unrolling the whole thing. The water level would be a straight line, not parallel to the unrolled ring but perpendicular to the artificial gravity.
That's genuinely good to know and interesting, thanks.
That's also where the water current comes from; the water is actually remaining relatively still while the riverbed moves underneath it ! If you stand on a raft and look at the solar sails outside you'll notice that they're "spinning" at the same speed as the water current.
@@LitchiBorrower The water current comes from the pumps in the two tunnels that lead to the reservoir. Neither centrifugal force nor Coriolis force can create the current you see in the game as friction would have long since stopped the current relative to the cylinder.
Also, the game kind of fakes the G-forces involved. The cylinder should be spinning five times faster to create that level of artificial gravity but I guess they must’ve play tested that and found that people couldn’t easily enter the docking bay at that rotation speed.
@@rensin2 iirc i think those are intended to be heat sinks rather than pumps (from Lore Explorer's dev interview)
@@vaap The heat sinks are in the damn.
I love watching people play this game, even joe here, but he has the strangest methods by far. Honestly most of his "discoveries" were entirely by accident. I feel bad that he was so confused at some areas but at the same time he was confused because the game was telling him "do this" and he just ignores it and decides to climb rocks. It worked out in the end though
Can’t wait to see joe’s reaction to this masterpiece of a expansion
Looking forward to some serious over-thinking
@@kiteracer95 You will not be disappointed
i was excited but this was thoroughly frustrating XD IDK. The devs DID make a lot of assumptions when making this DLC, personally I think my playthrough went probably in the exact order they intended for people to play it in. But Joe is incapable of playing games normally and constantly sequence breaks and finds glitches in every game he plays and ruins the intended experience so thats probably why he didnt enjoy the DLC as much as the base game. The base game was harder to sequence break than the dlc. which again, could be argued as a flaw in the DLC, and it kind of is, but if joe would just play the game and not try to break shit so much then he probably would have had a better time.
I know games should be designed around every possible player's experience, so the devs did fail for players to all experience this story in the same way because they didnt account for people like joe. but joe does it on purpose, which for some reason irritates me a bit XD Giant shocking moments in the DLC are really anticlimactic here because he just discovers random stuff constantly, then finds the game telling him how to do it later and was like "hmm this is not new information". He is a masterclass troll, even knowing he does it on purpose and it still irritates me. Props to him tbh.
I find the feedback many people offered for this playthrough rather troubling. The theme is "he skipped X% of the DLC".
To me, the defining characteristic of Outer Wilds is not its setting or its story. Although those elements are indeed fantastic, the essence of Outer Wilds is that it is a game about emergent gameplay. So many things are set up in such a way as to MAXIMIZE the odds of players doing things out of order. It is the same quality that generates most mystery stories: the pieces were there along, you just had to connect the dots. If the connections were subtle, then you will feel a sense of achievement if you manage to figure out the ending before the story itself inevitably gives it away. And if you don't, you get to experience a sort of magic trick, this multitude of details being slowly assembled right under your nose just to suddenly reveal a completed mosaic during the climactic end. The key here is that neither of those outcomes is necessarily superior. They are different kinds of enjoyment, they are both valid.
To give some examples: it appears to me that going into the Spirit World by dying before getting the hint is something the developers seem to have set up. The water turning off the lanterns in the nearest church is a way to figure out the secret room before the hint. So let us presume you "stumbled" onto one of the artifacts overtly placed in the ghost matter house, and you then learn of the secret room from the flooded church. So on a new loop, you grab an artifact, make your way to the room and think "so what now?". You MAY just go ahead and click the buttons available at the campfire with the artifact in your possession, leading to you entering the Spirit World through sleep, which would be a cool moment of discovery. Or, you might see the dead owls and use the following reasoning: "all these birds have a lit artifact. All these birds are dead. Therefore, being dead will activate my own artifact". So you kill yourself in the fire. And both of these methods do in fact work. To me, it appears that the developers were keenly aware of the possibility of scenarios like this and tried to nudge players into situations where they were likely to make correct guesses with vague clues.
The second example is the "debug world". Dropping the lantern is another behavior that is subtly encouraged by the game in various ways. The fact that water putting out your flame kicks you out. Or perhaps even more obvious, that the owls snuff out your light rather killing you directly when they have the option. We know both have identical results, so why do the owls bother leaning in when they can snap your neck like a twig? I would wager that a good part of the reason is that the devs wanted you to ask yourself: "wait, if they kill me by snuffing out my light, can I become invulnerable to them if I just leave it behind?". So you might attempt to test that guess, only to find the debug world.
tl;dr The game wants you and encourages you to sequence break. If you can skip hints by figuring stuff out yourself, that serves to add to your experience, and it can be a more interesting pay off than simply following the linear breadcrumbs to the end. Yes, you miss some scripted content, but quality art and story are a much more common resource in gaming than eureka moments you craft for yourself. In my book, Joe could have scarcely gotten a better experience than he did.
I used to be really frustrated by streamers sequence breaking, but now I've come to the same conclusion. In my eyes, the "intended path" is more of something for players to fall back on when they can't figure out the puzzles. The game straight up gives you the solution to certain puzzles if you look at it in a certain way, but still does so in an organic and unobtrusive manner. This rewards both exploration and critical thinking with progression.
Skipping hints sure, but skipping the exploration of the starlit cove & refusing to do so for the knowledge and story is disappointing
@@Payneonline what's the starlit cove
@@dancinginfernal The dream zone with the Tower and the well
Ah yes. The intended way of climbing a janky tree to get atop the 2nd fireplace tower. Scaling up the side rocks near the window to try and get to the building to which the bridge is broken.
I don't personally mind streamers not seeing every hint and finding out stuff by trial and error but intentionally bashing your head at an imaginary wall of clearly not intended way to get stuff done isn't really enjoyable to watch, especially when Joe clearly sometimes gets frustrated at the game because of his own lack of knowledge on how to tackle a problem when he'd be given more info by exploring elsewhere.
Like there isn't any things in Outer Wilds that I can think of that you can't do the easy way. Like getting to sun station, you CAN land the ship on it but you can also just use the teleporter. Getting to the teleporter for sunstation: yeah you CAN fly through the cactus maze of death, or you could just arrive there when the sand is still high and have a far easier time getting through. If something feels hard to do in this game, there's probably some other way to get it done that you haven't thought of because you lack critical information.
Sure go ahead and bash your head at that wall if you don't want to explore but why get frustrated at the game for choosing to play that way.
7:56:23 He's not even half way through the dlc and he's 2/3's of the way through the DLC
I like how he learns that you can fall asleep instead of dying to enter the simulation, but still wants to assert his dominance by dying anyways, then goes ”but i can’t exit since i’m dead?”
Never change Joe ❤
Maybe he thought that you die anyway after entering the simulation, like the owls
Oh man I didn't realise I missed this being streamed live. I was there for "Eskel is this normal" and I'm sad to see I wasn't there for Echoes, but I know this will be something for me to chew away at after I finish the RE8 streams. Got so much love for Outer Wilds.
Streams start up again on the 10th of this month. The order of games has been set too. We will start off with Wandersong, then move on to Zero Escape.
Thank you Joseph for continuing to provide entertainment while I'm stuck inside with covid.
Well, that's your own fault for not having the [ *insert party approved number* ] of totally great "vaccines" ^^
But in all seriousness, I hope you have a speedy recovery.
@@arsenelupin9697 Why did you comment this, it's going to create an unnecessary argument about vaccines on an outer wilds video
@@nanashi7779 Oh no, that sounds terrible.
Thank you for your valuable insight, commissar.
@@arsenelupin9697 Did you just call me a communist? 😂
@@nanashi7779 he's an anti-vaxxer or pretending to be one, meaning he's either an absolute chode or someone doing a spot on impression of one. In the case of the former, you're never going to get a good response from him so don't bother, and in the latter it's rude to ask him to break character to spoil the joke.
It gives me more joy than I can express to see him playing this again
A really neat detail is that you only find fuel in places that the Owlks burnt things. Burnt up church, slide burning rooms, etc.
if someone wants to see a playthrough with no skipping and no accidental puzzle solves, I recommend About Oliver. He goes into the information the game provides so deeply, that he does an entire half an hour session about one slide reel for example. He figures out the entire plot and gets invested into the characters.
There are no characters to get invested in
@@Archway-9 the nomai?
@@hypnogri5457 thought you were talking about the dlc
Outer Skip: echoes of the content
One of my favorite things that joe does is he’ll spit out an absolutely wild out of pocket theory that makes no sense and then immediately afterward say a different theory that’s somehow 100% accurate. Idk how this happens every time.
Do you have some timestamps
watching joe play games you love is so difficult sometimes, watching joe play games you dont care about is hilarious. this was such a stressful but entertaining experience
I appreciate you slicing out all the bathroom breaks, thank you!
Absolutely legendary series of streams o7
Shame that the Steins;Gate fakeout had to be removed, chat went mental back then lol. Here's hoping Nodja's archive will feature it
Does it? Do you have a timestamp?
@@mechanicalmonk2020 I believe they are talking about this bit: 11:40:00 Also I have no idea what is happening there
I've never been more frustrated in my life lmao
Joe's the kind of guy to explicitly go against the DM plans and try to derail everything to see how the DnD campaign will change for him, instead of trying to work with him to craft a better story.
who isnt that kind of guy tbh
@@cucumberjoe6824 so many people man
@@cucumberjoe6824 It ruins the game if you intentionally try to break things, if you go too far off the rails the GM will have nothing concrete to work with and will basically just be improvising. This can lead to fun moments if done sparingly, but do it too much and the entire narrative structure will fall apart.
@@AhNoWiC Good thins this is a video game, so no GM involved just the player doing things for their own enjoyment lol.
@@vindikaktus Good thing we were talking about actual D&D, not the game being played on screen....
Love how every time you wake up it’s a different breath. Sometimes deeper, sometimes lighter, sometimes someone entirely different.
Seems to be based, partly at least, on how you died. If you suffocate, your breath will be a deep sucking one
Uh. Play the game?
The breath actually changes depending on how you die (i.e. much more desperate if you die from suffocation)
I've seen a lot of complaints about the tower puzzle, but I'm glad to see someone else who thought the lights were a code. That the dream world affected the real world was never an issue for me, but the fact that in the hint they show lights being turned off AND ON definitely makes it seem like a particular sequence is required imo.
They patched clues on that tho, when I played it you just saw a dude leave and then the door opened
This was definitely the most unique route I’ve seen someone go through the dlc I especially loved how Joe would go from the hidden gorge to the canyon to they a lantern instead of the light room lmao.
One thing I sorta get is that the Owlk’s method of communicating feels a bit gamey. That was sort of my initial impression as well. But I sort of look at each race’s communication as being distinct from one another, down to how they all perceive the eye. For the Nomai they quite literally visualized signals that we (humans and Hearthian) convert to audio. The Owlks themselves communicate visually as well but that was mostly for their written records, as they perceived the eye almost telepathically through visions. And that ties into their “dream world” simulation’s construction.
As for the Hearthians we perceived the Eye’s signal through audio and that goes into how much importance the race as a whole places on music. To the point where every traveler has their own distinct audio signal conveyed through song. And the eye uses all 3 of these forms of communication to reach out to the Hatchling.
There’s also some neat ties with each race and the number of eyes searching for the Eye of the universe. For a game whose message in part revolves around the importance of observation, that’s a really potent detail I think. Especially since the Owlk’s show how easy it is to obfuscate and hide truths and histories from curious eyes. To the point where they rewrote much of their history to make themselves out to be victims of the Eye’s treachery, distancing themselves from their own wrongs like destroying their home moon, and containing the Eye’s signal, as well as imprisoning one of their own.
I found it interesting, how many viewers considered learning things out of order a game breaking thing, when it is the consequence of the core mechanics of the game. If the game is the same state and progress is only made by the player acquiring information by exploring and trying new things, it is highly probable that most players won't get the "full experience" since they will skip steps. The base game handled that better, by having a few bottleneck puzzles (to reach ATP). And just to be clear, that's different than the glitch jump in Joes base game playthrough. He is a glitch seeker though, that was evident from his the cyberpunk play (and to be honest, glitch seeking in cyberpunk is a form of completionist gameplay, so it is understandable).
I enjoyed the experience nonetheless, it is good to watch again.
Is there a chance of you playing the Longest Journey games? I wonder, how popular is that game in the twitch chat community.
A big part of this is that the parts Joe skipped are the most controversial bits of the DLC. From the perspective of fans who respect his opinion, seeing his reaction to, and hearing his eventual take on, those bits was a something they were looking forward too.
But Joe literally missed like 5 or so rooms of the DLC, maybe 8? and I think at least 3 slide reels. I dont see the problem with pointing this out as not getting the full experience. And he missed what the DLC does for the ending. I mean come on. It's clearly less than 80% of the DLC he experienced. Depending on how you look at it, he missed an entire third of the DLC.
@@knoir846 Yeah, I felt that. I also think it's an unreasonable expectation. But again, feelings are also valid.
@@bodbyss Well, the ending could've been replayed, true. But I just don't see, how he could've got the full experience without looking it up beforehand. The game can be completed storywise without all reels, so he really needs to be a completionist to go back. And I guess, for a review he would replay it.
@@koboDresden Yeah I dont know either. Its' just Joe's style to fuck around and then accidentally get rewarded for it. There was 100% no reason for him to kill himself on the fire, and no reason to try to poke slightly through the quantum moon fog clouds and accidentally glitch through an entire puzzle without learning the solution, and no reason to try to walk on the rocks around the tower of light when he knew that wasn't the intended solution. I'm sure there's other examples that I'm forgetting.
Putting down the artifact and walking away is understandable so I didnt include that in my paragraph.
But in this case I'm just pointing out how entire puzzles, entire sections of the game are bypassed and not even seen because Joe is almost as interested in breaking the game as he is in solving it. I dont really understand why he engages in penetration testing for games like this. Cyberpunk, sure I get it. But not here. Im glad he enjoyed himself though. It would have sucked if he didn't.
i am so happy Joseph streamed this. Thank you so much.
"There is no wrong way to play outer wilds"
Joe: Watch me
yay, chat's back. nice to have the whole playthrough in one vid
also, investigate pissgate
PISSGATE WAS AN INSIDE JOB
STAY WOKE
It has been investigated. Joe on the discord said that if he had known about the bet during when the bet was live, that he would've considered it invalid. But by the time he understood what Pissgate even was, like a day or two has already passed.
@@Mrdouggz what is pissgate
@@skippyasqueeze i hope no one answers you, its way funnier that way
@@dancinginfernal it is but unfortunately I figured it out lol
Joe loves to stress-test games and I think I share a little bit of that. "What happens if I do this thing most players won't think to do?" "Did the devs account for this?" "I'm finding out a way to go THERE no matter what, whether the devs intend for me to get there now or not, whether the devs intend for me to ever get there, whether or not there is or will be an intended, logical, easier way to do it revealed later on."
I also saw my same tendency to scour for things I worry about missing. Running my character's ween along every inch of every wall for a code or reel or something and worrying about leaving before I found it.
But not long into the DLC I let go and trusted the game, trusted the devs. If something that appeared out of reach seemed important, I trusted that I'd be led to it eventually. I stopped worrying about finding the password after the first one. I stopped trying to race clock trying to get to areas with barely enough time to explore, and by the last third, I knew better than to, for example, try to search the entire dreamscape in debug mode, that the right moment(s) to do so would be made apparent in due time.
I fought all my tendencies because I trusted the devs to have thought of and curated the right kind of experience as long as I do anything and everything I wanted while still keeping that 6th sense on if I was about to sequence-break either by discovery or by creative use of the landscape to get to "inaccessible" areas. I stumbled on a few discoveries before I had the back-information to know the context and in those moments, which I actively tried to avoid, I got good at backtracking and waiting for things to unfold properly - not to avoid confusion or spoilers, but because I didn't want the experience ruined for me. You really only get one shot at that with games like these.
Some of the biggest and most interesting revelations were potentially if not actually watered down due to Joe's wont to experiment, which again makes him a kindred spirit to me. I completely understand and it's an even harder urge to fight when the base game in its own way actively *encouraged* fucking around and finding out. In his defense, how is he supposed to know what information he's meant to discover on his own and what information will be fed to him later? How is he meant to know that the abandoned temple code is much later and far away even though the module code was within feet of the of its panel? It can be a though line to walk.
For any game dev other than Mobius I'd say the key to both success and optional enjoyment is to trust. I did that and I think I got the most out of EotE because of it.
I will also say I immensely leaned on my ships computer in my approach. If an area didn't have an asterisks next to it, I left it alone and didn't come back without some revelatory new information. The entries also helped me with know what details to hang on to and which ones to ignore, making for steady progress without stalls, deviations or detours, or accidental, unknowing sequence breaking. Shout out to Ship-Chan for real. But if you decide never to read Ship-Chan (which I fully endorse) and there is not one single word in the DLC you're playing, only pictures and videos in the way of communicating to the player, unlike the based Nomai, then there's going to be far more room for abstracting, sometimes in the wrong direction, sometimes too far/quickly in the right direction.
What a game. What a playthrough. Great streamer!
Watching streams like this one always serves as a strong example of how a game can be experienced massively different by different people. Some people are creative and can intuit meaning from art more easily, while others are better at more practical experience, and still others are patient and take a game one step at a time, and so on. This has a definitive effect on a person's overall impression of a game, and most likely whether they enjoyed it or not. I am pretty good at intuiting the types of puzzles and clues that are in this game, but I am terrible at the stealth sections and puzzles that are more about practical effects rather than interpretation of art. I absolutely loved Outer Wilds and this DLC, it is practically tailor-made for me personally, with regard to my strengths, interests, etc. However I can totally see why it is just not for some people, and why others just don't get much from the experience. The things I loved about it can be the same things that others hate about it.
when they were making the game they knew that they were minmaxxing for a specific type of gamer while almost 'throwing away' all the other types. its kinda interesting to hear from their perspective, if ur curious i'd recommend watching Kelsey Beachum's (the lead writer) talk at GDC
I'll be honest, I was loving the stream but about halfway through the 2nd stream (went to watch it on twitch because chat ruins the YT version for me) I got super bored, it started feeling like he spent too much time throwing stuff at the wall trying to see what sticks. It kinda felt like he was just breaking all the rocks until he found one with a moon in it
It's fine I guess, he was exploring mechanics and ways to play them, I just wish he explored the world and story instead
I can understand playing a lot of games like that, but I don't understand playing OW in this way since its incredible quality hinges entirely on exploring the world, piecing the story together and most of all, being spoiler free
You have one shot to play this game for the first time, Joe even says it repeatedly
Yeah, as much as I love watching Joe play things, I had a really hard time with parts of this. If that's how he enjoys playing things, that's good for him, but trying to break a game experience like this, when you know it's something you'll never see for the first time again, and just flat ignoring a huge chunk of the content to brute force something, is frustrating to watch as someone who absolutely loved the dlc.
It's super irritating how he will immediately gravitate towards the most interesting thing he perceives and completely ignore everything else. As soon as Joe sets foot in the Stranger he gets introduced to a brand new whitewater rafting mechanic, several houses to explore and instead chooses to walk on foot to the nearby dam because he identified that the game designers put something important there. It's possible to be TOO genre savvy for your own good.
After watching his playthrough of the base game, your comment doesn't even surprise me. He kept trying to brute force everything for some reason. I'm glad I read the comment section of this video, because I will probably pass on it because his playthrough of the base game just annoyed me.
@@Churahm I have an absolute blast watching Joe play games I'm not interested. Streams of him playing silly anime games? Gold. But yeah I have a hard time watching him play games I love. Glad there wasn't an elden ring stream, I'd probably not be able to watch that either.
Ive really been looking for this
I don't get why he consistently tries to break the game only to then be upset when he does. He spent literally 4 hours trying to land on the Sun Station even when told by the game that you can't. And to what end? Skip a puzzle? We saw what happens when he did succeed in breaking the game when he rammed his face in between every two rocks on the Quantum moon and managed to no-clip glitch through the puzzle. He immediately felt bad for breaking the game. Now he dances around the fire to his death while holding the artifact and mashing buttons and didn't know if he just accidentally broke the game again, souring his experience.
It just feels like he would rather enter every combination on a 4 digit code rather than play a puzzle game normally, then get upset when he misses the puzzle, and I don't know why someone would do that.
God himself could come to earth and tell me that piss break loop should count and I would still think people got screwed by counting that in the bet. Gambling and its consequences....
'this is fine' as the water bellows towards him was so funny
Game is not scary in Stream three because Joe is legally blind. Hilarious how much shows up on screen and he just misses it.
I swear his playthrough of the DLC is the most weird shit i have ever seen
5:25 That....that satellite had a lock on feature?
I spent like 4 hours trying to catch it during its trajectory. I did MATH. Welp.
It's amazing to people who are usually very smart get hit RIGHT in the blind spot, such as the concept of a disc having two sides to enter from.
I am absolutely glued to these videos, I absolutely love this game. My god Joes gameplay frustrated the living hell out of me, but at the same point I love his thought process a lot of the time. For example when he was talking about “two different factions that either supported or hated the eye” that was such an interesting concept that I hadn’t thought about during my play through, and even though it was wrong I can 100% see how, with the information he had, he could come to that conclusion. But that’s also part of my gripes, his lack of information and his play style around that. The “brute force” method has never been something I’ve liked to see in games, especially an information heavy game like this. The point of the video that had me absolutely crying was getting atop the tower by jumping up the tree, I don’t get why he always thinks things are a parkour challenge. I do feel he doesn’t have much of an interest in information gathering, which is cool and all but for a game that really relies on having knowledge, it doesn’t seem to suit his play style. But all that being said, watching the stream brought back great memories of playing through the game and it’s DLC, always wishing I could replay it all from blank again. I kind of wish Joe would voice his thoughts more often, as im sure he has a lot of interesting things to say, but more often than not we, as an audience, don’t always see things from his perspective, because he’s not giving us his perspectives. At least there’s not hours of flying into the sun this time *phew*
Yeah, for me the most frustrating part of watching these vods is when something happens he outright refuses to say anything, react, or otherwise tries to defy expectations for a personal laugh. I think chat’s behavior - the paranoia over everything Joe says and does, claiming he played wrong, getting upset over tiny bullshit - is a direct result of this; He may get a kick out of it but he’s biting himself in the ass and he doesn’t even realize it. Chat wants him to enjoy the game, but he shuts down nearly every moment for an internal giggle and chat can’t tell if he understood what happened, if he liked it, and sometimes if he was even paying attention at all which on rare occasion actually happens.
The enjoyment for let’s plays comes from seeing how people react and hearing what they have say about it or other things, and in every vod I’ve seen so far he denies this almost completely, only rarely breaking to say a couple things. It’s very frustrating.
@@ARandomMonitor first stream?
this time for sure
the first 5 times i heard the dam break its jumpscared the shit out of me cuz it was too loud , never turned it down tho, got used to it
Joe is a very smart man and I really respect the level of analysis he has for media.
Sometimes this stream felt like watching Darksydephil.
Hey Joe, only caught the first stream so you might've already figured this out but the dam only starts to break once the stranger starts to move away from the sun. Guess it uses too much power or shakes the ship or something but it bothered me as well and thought you'd like to know.
Yep. I assume its caused by the trauma of the solar sails opening. Normally it would probably have been fine, but a millennia of decay meant that the dam was much weaker at that point. Another couple centuries and it probably would have broken on it's own without the sail opening.
There was a line in the chat of the first stream that went something like "Imagine having one chance to experience this and you spend it sequence breaking", and I mean... yeah. The playthrough was a blast at first, but by the third stream it was getting somewhat frustrating, but in a sad (rather than mad) kinda way. It felt like when you try to tell someone a joke and they just guess the punchline on a whim.
The game had so much of spooky atmosphere and clever puzzles left to offer, but guessing stuff and doing it not the intended way has weakened all of its charm. I understand that it's bound to happen to someone if you structure a game like this, but still.. I really liked this DLC, almost as much as the base game, so I feel bad when someone doesn't get to see it in its full glory because of some messing around.
So I wanted to vent off this frustration a bit and offer my perspective to the people wondering why some found it frustrating like I did.
Still, this comment is not to hate on you Joe, as you're not to blame for any of this. So thank you for streaming this! It was still a very entertaining watch.
This is a really good way to explain this, I feel the same way. When Keith Ballard played, he never ever entered the dream world via the submerged structure, and as a result he had to figure out the Cinder Isles tower purely through trial and error. He then complained about how obtuse it was. Seems like it's difficult to stop players from accidentally robbing themselves of a more enjoyable experience.
But imo that doesn't really impact anyone, you're getting frustrated that his experience wasn't a curated tour through every nook and cranny of the dlc, but forcing anyone to do that takes away from their enjoyment of the game. Things like the tree jump are so much more memorable because he chose to explore and do it himself.
@@dinukrajapakse2218 I'm not saying it's impacting anyone, and I'm not here to force a certain playstyle onto Joe (or anyone else playing). What I'm saying is that the game has a lot of good stuff that is skipped by randomly guessing, and I'm sad that Joe (or anyone else who skipped it like that) didn't get to experience it and may end up liking the game less because of it.
@@maxperson188 This is a very narrow view of what makes OW and the DLC enjoyable. Even more cringe to present it in such a condescending way ("imagine ruining your only first playthrough").
Joe clearly enjoys the game for it's freeform exploration and puzzle solving, being able to intuit things from context clues or randomly expetimenting random ideas until something works. His first playthrough was riddled with this, from figuring out Anglerfish are blind without looking at the fossil, to his infamous sun station landing attempts, to 1%. It's very condescending to say he ruined his first playthrough when he clearly enjoyed his time with the game specifically BECAUSE the game is not so linear as to force you to experience it in one way
@@stevenagelutton4322 I never presented this as a definite ruining of Joe's experience. If someone enjoys this sort of playstyle then by all accounts they are free to play in whichever way they like, Joe included of course.
I was just expressing the way I felt from this playthrough tho. I feel the game is at its best when your playthrough aligns just right with one of the possible ways it's intending to lead you. That's when the cleverness of its design shines, when you feel it all "click together". Is that really so bad I feel this way? My view may be narrow, but it is a view nonetheless.
11:04:20 the most brutal Joe has ever been
god that had me fuckin choking, absolutely incredible
😂
7:54:00 the moment it fully set in
13:51 I feel bad for the person that said they don’t mind spoilers. This is the one game where it’s pretty much ruined if you know what happens. 🥺
to be fair Joe went for a 5 mins straight warning people "Hey, if you've not played this game, go fucking play it."
@@dancinginfernal no,i know but that person probably didnt know that knowledge is the game
damn reading chat is entertaining and frustrating at the same time ^^
Previous gaming experiences that have had legacy gamers jumping in deadly pits, walking into fake walls, and otherwise putting secrets in the most unlikely of places has really added a challenge to designing modern games and has effectively turned legacy gamers into QA testers lol. This game put so much effort into making key things stand out with scene framing, lighting, big bright shiny things, audio queues, etc, and legacy gamers just ignore the super obvious and obsess over the tiniest of details and overthink the most trivial things. It's really frustrating sometimes lol. Regardless, that legacy skill also allows for some of the most big brained problem solving skills.
i'm happy you uploaded it with chat as it was previously!
Thanks for the great experience, a little sad you didn't see everything on stream.
I really want to see this video on it
6:07:15 it's comments like this that make me wonder if Joe is kidding or stupid or somehow both at the same time. He told himself he would die after using the wrong lantern in that same part of the stream.
Watching these videos is the viewer equivalent to playing a Kaizo Mario game.
I have a thought: it's very probable that marshmallows that the protagonist eats at a campfire are all the same ones, since loops. It's like an infinite pizza. It's like emergency tree seeds, but emergency marshmallows
I enjoy watching people play Outer Wilds and his story is definitely one of the most unique I've ever seen. The player is intelligent and logical. It is fun watching smart people plays. However I think Joe is on the less adventurous side when it comes to exploring. Experimenting with the game mechanics seems to piqued his interest more. And that leads to him finding out about the "not-rendered world" early on.
Regarding to the "skipping" part. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Bacause this game is driven by player's curiosity and Joe's curiosity had driven him to experiment stuff and he discovered the "glitch". However it's rather unfortunate that I didn't get to see him doing the stealth section or seeing him "Click" with the story more before he reach the Prisoner.
btw he didn't even bother going to the eye lmao. I just hope he does it off streams.
Description says he trimmed down the video to be under 12 hours to give the Witcher video time to shine
This was hilarious and frustrating as all hell to watch. He found so much ON ACCIDENT on hunches. Then when the game is showing him ACTUAL SOLUTIONS, he disregards them. AGH!
Thanks Joe
you really skipped like 2/5ths of the game. lovely streams
I have the feeling that he already knew about the stranger even before playing
2:31:20 The wild thing is when I played this the cave was so obvious to me that when I found the house that gives you the x-ray of the cave like "HERE BE ENTRANCE" I thought "well there's no way that's what that means, it must be some super hidden invisible bridge out in front of the tower that I have to shine a lantern on to make tangible! Yes, this makes perfect sense!" and spent 3x as long as Joe here trying to find that invisible path.
2:51:20 I got almost every achievement my first run for all the wrong ways to do things due to trial and error *yet I never thought to do this.* True Joe-tier genius. It's only not an achievement because even the developers couldn't grasp Joe's brilliant thought process.
4:01:47 - this will never stop being funny. Prime Joe content
I love how the game keeps blatantly telling him to do something and he just completely ignores it and jumps on a rock or something and accidentally discovers something way too early
even i managed to skip a lot of the ways you are "supposed" to learn things about opening the vault, but i still went through the entirety of the DLC and explored every area, i enjoyed the game too much to leave any stones unturned. Hope joe did the same if not on stream then off stream.
Glad to see you streaming again!
Joe: Does anything
Chat: "OMG GOD GAMER!!!!"
everyone in chat must have REALLY struggled playing game
Lmao they’re being sarcastic.
@@Death_Incarnate lmao no they really aren't.
@@1993JoshG it's usually when he reasons out a puzzle without using the hints where people will do that. People happy that he figured something out with out help, when many of them (myself included) needed to access the games more direct hints and pointing to puzzle together what to do. aka he is number 1 cogniferous streamer
twelve hours of content?? holy BURSH
based joe adding in the chat
thank you waifu joe
I love how Joe takes a look at the boats and the town architecture like 1 hour into the DLC and correctly correctly guesses that it has been designed for comfort and then proceeds to not understand the main mechanic for 3 hours
I'm sorry I didn't get to see any of this on stream. I've enjoyed your playthroughs of the game.
Joe seems kind of mad that he sequence broke the fire 😅
Chat is leget fucking tilted when this man is being an absolute fool with the lanturns lmfaoo
shout out to baaaldur for being the best chatter during this playthrough
pissgate was an inside job
[02:50] I wonder if there are people who didn't liked Outer Wilds because there is a time limit and continuous restarts. I am one of them, and yes I know many game's puzzles are time-based and wouldn't work otherwise, and the plot is also connected to time. When Joe began to play it on stream I was intrigued and tempted to switch the stream off and play it by myself, up until the point when, to my disappointment, I realized there is a time-loop and forced restarts.
Yet, still, I've had great experience watching a playthrough of it though.
same here. the time pressure makes me rush the areas and exploration isn't fun that way for me.
I'm not much of a big fan of time limits usually. But to be fair most areas of the game are accessible within like 2-3 minutes of the start of a 22 minutes loop, and those that aren't need to be accessed only once or have a hidden shortcut to make sure you can get there faster on future loops.
Time is hardly a constraint in this game, and more of a tool for world/puzzle building.
To be frank, this playthrough just was not that enjoyable to watch due to the amount of sequence-breaking there was instead of following the trail of clues (which led to missing a significant amount of content and sequences). I understand that this will happen a few times for a lot of players just trying things out (e.g. I tried to lure the pursuers to the artifact by leaving it on the ground as an attempted solution to a stealth sequence, which led to discovering that whole thing early), and I appreciate thoughts of "what happens if I do x" like blowing out all of the candles on the raft, but actively and repeatedly trying to do these things out of context, looking for an outcome when you KNOW that you finding it that way wouldn't be intended, is just so uninteresting to watch over and over.
For a puzzle game that you're really only going to get to experience one time, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to engage with the clues presented to you to try and solve a riddle, but instead repeatedly attempt to bruteforce an alternate and blatantly unintended path (feels Quantum-Moon, man).
I dunno. If this is a way that's more fun to play for some people (despite knowing that this is a puzzle game with narrative elements surrounding its clues), then power to them, but it made for quite a boring watch for the second-half of the playthrough.
I found the leaving the artifact stuff by thinking "what if I do this?" and almost did the same with the raft early on by blowing out the candles in the cave just thinking "what happens if I make it entirely dark?" but was like 1 second too late (didn't realise this at the time). Didn't try it again and moved on. Even if I had found out all of this just by being a curious cunt I'd have still done the whole game instead of skipping so much like this dude does.
1 week since last stream please Joe I need content my body craves it
This is a message to anyone angry that joe is skipping stuff: you need to note 2 things:
1: Joe never, at any point skips something major in an unintended way. Everything he does is accounted for in the games mechanics. This is not another "glitching to the north pole" situation.
2: He loved the DLC. He played it his way, discovered the secrets his way and, even though he misses a lot of context for the story, STILL came out the other end with a very enjoyable experience and positive review. That's a pretty incredible feat to accomplish when it can cater to both a player like you and a player like him.
Joe just talks a lot of shit and trolls chat a LOT. He also doesn't really engage with the emotional tone of a game in the way the game intends. (For example, making anime jokes contantly through what the game is clearly presenting as somber and emotionally charged moments through the slide reels. Or not engaging with spooky content.) Not outwardly anyway, he very clearly appreciates the story on its merits but just doesn't present that when playing with chat. It was the same for his base-game playthrough.
Joes playstyle is weird and if i was 10 years younger i would say he's playing these games wrong. But he's not, hes just having his kind of fun and thats why i always play a game first before watching him stream it. I can play it my way then watch how he does it his way and see how wildly different the experience is for him.
His anime jokes and chat trolling are really just not funny 90% of the time though. I'm on your side there.
found the one good comment
I find his joke hilarious and have the same playstyle has him.
I don't think anyone would argue that he didn't have fun. It's more that a lot of people didn't have fun watching.
Pretty much the only kind of "replayability" for this game is through watching someone else play. If he skips a lot of the sections that you, as a player, enjoyed when you played the first time, then this is where the frustration comes from.
I believe that a lot of people just want to experience this game again through someone else's playthrough, and get annoyed when he doesn't experience some key moments at all because he skipped them intentionally or not.
"He also doesn't really engage with the emotional tone of a game in the way the game intends"
This is an explicitly bad quality to have as a critic btw
Thats first point actually isnt true on two seperate occasions, 1.Joe brute forces his way INTO A TREE to get on top of the cinder isles tower (seems pretty unaccounted for to me but ok), 2. Joe literally walks around and very frequently uses unintended paths around the stranger and the dream world to get to places he isnt supposed to be in (let us see first him getting to the dam on HIS FIRST LOOP, and second how Joe LITERALLY Skyrims his way into the tower in the dream world to get to the candle puzzle which he tried and failed to brute force). i get your points but the first one was just untrue.
Yeah, I love ya Joseph but this let's play was...interesting. All power to him if he enjoyed it, but the constant stream of trying and succeeding at breaking this DLC was frustrating to watch as a viewer, especially given it removed a lot of the emotional impact of freeing the prisoner. I noted one commenter here said that Joe has a habit of breaking moments by making quips or not reacting at all and that really came out a lot here. The vision cutscene is meant to be a combination of sad and hopeful, the poorly timed jokes really threw me off. Not completing the ending again after freeing the prisoner was also a really odd choice. Maybe he was tired or maybe didn't feel that connected to the plot of the DLC? I for one rushed my ass off to the ATP as soon as the next loop started. Again, this is all my perspective of how I personally enjoyed this lets play as a viewer.
There's no way this is happening. I'm so hyped holy shit.
Interloper be like lmao gottem
[Spoilers]
I had the ending messed up, too. I started on a new save. I had re-explored the comet, though, so that was there. When I left the vault, I didn't see the vision torch with the vision of the boat. Also, I got a spoiler that there was a character named "The Prisoner", so I knew there was someone inside the vault.
That was pretty obvious from the start IMO but I thought it was supposed to be someone left behind to go kill the Eye, that the Owls had a plan to do that. The real ending was much more melancholic.
3:18:30 yes, if you played the dlc a few patches later :(
Alright fine, *one more video before bed.*
Damn, the whole time chat is like "OMG you didn't immediately do the thing I want you to do, you must be blind, stupid or trolling!"
7:04:00 - when he discovers the other side
It's always so nice to see someone play one of these games and actually _think._ Also great to have Joe and his perfect timing back.
Then, as usual, I watched a little more and was reminded that Joe's head is full of mayonnaise.
Joe, thank you for playing this. This game is so amazing and seeing you play it and now the dlc is like a tiny bit of getting to play it again.
I don't really understand some of the people in chat saying the time loop takes away from the DLC, it feels exactly like the base game in my opinion.
Not quite IMO. Base game had a bunch of different destinations you could go to and for most of it there was always something new to do in those directions. Here, the start of the loop is always exactly the same. Set market, fly straight up, auto pilot, dock, go in, grab artifact, get to fire.
Over and over and over again. I adore this game and dlc but that started to get really grating.
Crazy how good of a game critic he is considering how fixated he is on breaking and skipping as much of them as he can. Its like a movie critic fast fowarding, watching films on mute and only reading subtitles.
He plays every game at least two times, thats why strams look different - his first playthrough is always "screwing around" second is very "in deep"
not comparable at all. video games are an interactive medium and most games, especially open-ended ones like outer wilds, allow for a wide range of ways to experience it. joe's highly personal bruteforce-y and sequence breaking playstyle is completely valid and supported by the game. fast forwarding through a film or watching it on mute i think we can say are objectively invalid ways of experiencing it, at least when it comes to critical analysis, because you're either directly not experiencing large chunks of the film, or leaving out the soundscape which is a major aspect of film as a medium. you can say "well joe skipped through a lot content here", but again, games are a fundamentally different medium. it's accounted for by the devs that some players will miss content. every player's experience is different, which is not really something we can say about mediums like film (people can certainly interpret things in a wide array of ways, but the actual content being experienced remains consistent)
@@cyjan3k823 This is, according to him, a completely blind playthrough of this dlc.
Then again with elden ring, he did the opposite and played the most boring (to me) vanilla way possible, ignoring 95% of the game mechanics.
just to be clear, I love Joe, currently watching a 12 hour playthrough of his, not trying to hate on him, just think it's silly how differently he approaches different games.
@@leftovernoise yes, I know. He never does his second playthrough with chat or anyone as far as I know. Only first one or some kind of "causal one, not for video" is done on stream.
I dont know why is it relevant.
The video title is misleading, he sequence broke half the game and by the end of the final stream he still had not discovered any slide burning rooms. We will never know what he would have thought of the hand-crafted progression the developers made. Sure, he had fun forging his own path, but could he have had a more enjoyable experience without having to guess random things without context? We'll never know.
But in a game like Outer Wilds there is no sequence breaking. You could say he sequence broke by dying on the fire, but he was simply interacting with things in the room trying to parse together what to do. I've seen other people die on the fire because they see the owls dead and think it'll work for them. Did they sequence break too? If they did then the fault lies with the DLC for allowing such a solution to the puzzle, if they didn't then what defines sequence breaking? The feeling of having solved a puzzle? A puzzle game where all the rules are abstracted will never have a set path due to the nature of the puzzles, especially in one like Outer Wilds, so there isn't really the ability to sequence break, barring genuine glitches like Joe's Quantum Moon voyage. And honestly, had I taken his route through the DLC my experience would've been ten times better. He "skipped" some of the worst parts of the whole DLC
@@Pikaton659 I think the problem comes from players' backgrounds. I have a background in playing puzzle games, especially community-made maps in Portal 2. I have consistently found that following the intended path through a puzzle is more satisfying and rewarding than breaking it with exploits. Every game has unintended exploits, they're interesting once and then you get bored of them quickly. The developer's intended experience, however, is a unique and hand-crafted, it gives you something new and meaningful that isn't just random accidental stuff that could happen in any game. That was what I enjoyed so much about Echoes of the Eye, the intended experience was so well-made that it easily surpassed any exploits or sequence breaking for me. What people often complain about in the DLC is actually them trying to brute force things in ways the developers did not intend, and in fact I never tried such things myself as I felt clear signaling that they were not intended. The game is very clear about when you are supposed to approach certain areas, I just did everything in the order that felt most natural and never encountered any frustrations at all. By the time you get the the one and only required stealth section, you fully understand the mechanics of the AI and can exploit them to your advantage, making it a hilariously trivial task to get past them. Following the intended progression led to me having a very enjoyable experience with zero frustrations and lots of appreciation for the game. So when I see other players do things that are clearly not fun and which can be done in literally any game, it makes me wonder why they even bothered to play the game at all.
I really dont know what you were expecting with the logical leaps the main game's puzzles make. Its conditioning
@@pingas469 The base game doesn't make "logical leaps" like what happened in this stream. There's plenty of parallel paths in the base game that you can follow with small step by small step without having to guess anything.
@@LB_ The game doesn't give you any sort of hint for the 'bottleneck' puzzles though, and eventually you can run out of parallel paths without even knowing it.
What this amounts to is running around looking for clues that don't exist.
Not to mention the quantum mechanics don't even work in a logical way, which can make reaching the quantum moon quite a hassle if you're running on the assumption that the game will follow its own rules.
He literally did the funniest thing possible by entering the dream world and asking if he broke the game
Y'all people are so crazy. You think he ruined the ending for himself because he figured some things out on his own and skipped some inconsequential slide reels? (The starlit cove slide reel literally just shows how they built the simulation.) It was a great experience for him, and figuring things out on your own is part of the game, not just blindly following bread crumbs. The game gives you many hints to figure out the glitches yourself, the alarms literally have you wake up to see the unaffected dead owls. And I think it's weird how people deride Joe's way of playing the game when you can hear the absolute glee in his voice upon figuring something out. He sounds so happy it makes me watching happy as well
Where's the Wandersong playthrough? I wanna watch that too.
I enjoyed that game even if it was easy and just a feel good game :)