Love the respect put on Hedman, dude has been consistently a top 5 defenceman for a decade now, arguably even longer. His Conn Smythe run was absolute madness as well with 22 points and 10 goals in the playoffs! Those 10 goals in a single playoff run is 3rd best all time for a defenceman.
Nicklas Lidström was nominated for the Norris Trophy a total of 12 times. You could claim one was one on reputation, there were at LEAST 3 that he may have deserved more than the recipient early in his career.
The story of Lidstroms first day in Detroit is amazing: he is asked what number he wants and replies 9. He is taken into the arena and someone points up and says: 9 is up there, pick a different number. Then 20+ years later number 5 is retired.
I'm old enough to have watched him play for the CCCP on the TV when I was a kid, and let me tell you he was incredible. And I say that as a Swede. Cheers 🍺
Lidstrom's game was so subtle that I forget what it was like watching him and I wish he could be reborn in someone's body and play another entire NHL career.
I never forget when Lidas was pulled thru the legs right infront of Ozzy by Forsberg in a playoff between the Wings and the Avs. The greatest D man got yanked by the greatest forward...(the greatest playing at the time, at least.) And both of them Swedes✌️ Great generation Forsberg Lidström Sundin Alfredsson and a few more... really great. Especially if you consider that all of them came from the same small country up in the most northern part of Europe with a pop of just under ten million people, at the same time.... Shoutout to our Finnish brothers of the same generation too....Selennä Kapanen....and so on👏
Keith was a beast but its understated just how good of a defensemen Niklas Hjalmarsson was - literally the best defensive player in the NHL for an entire decade straight but bc he didn't score a ton he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
I was just saying this above, no individual accolades. Part of all three Cup winning Blackhawks teams, but Hjalmarsson was one of the Hawks' best shot blocking d-men.
@@Darrakkii he would have had the winner in Game 7 in the second round against Detroit in 2013 if it wasnt for s stupid penalty. Seabrook came through in the end but Hjalmarsson had it if it wasnt called back.
Keith is still a legend tho 2 Norris 1 Smythe, 2 Olympics Golds, One of the 100 greatest ever. Basically traded in 6 teeth for a Cup once. Dude was insane
By the way, I enjoy your list videos very much. We're never gonna agree 100 percent but that's fine because that'd make for a boring watch. What matters is your lists are always well thought out and you explain your stance well.
Thanks for mentioning Larry Robinson and why he's not on your list. I saw him play in the mid 70's and he amazed me. Sooo good. And Chara, see here's the thing, I'm a Habs fan (Canucks #2) so supposed to hate Bruins, but Chara played in Prince George, where I live now, and he was something to behold. And then there's Bourque. Oh boy.
Brett Hull's description of Lidstrom sums it up. Lidstrom was so good defensively, way ahead of everyone else on the ice mentally, that opposition players would turn back and pass the puck sideways when they looked up and saw Lidstrom was the player they needed to beat. He didn't even need to do anything else half the time, just the knowledge that he was on the ice made them give up
I would have put Scott Stevens on my list. In a lot of ways he was the player who defined his era, and people forget that he was a very good offensive defensemen.
Whether you love him or hate him, fact is that teams literally had to adjust their play to keep their forwards away from him. The fact that one defenseman caused teams to adjust and change their plays speaks volumes.
Had he been able to keep playing at the level he was Detroit had arguably the best 1-2 defensive pairing of the late 90’s/early 00’s, either get run over on one side or never get an opportunity to shoot or make a clean pass on the other.
Watching Lidstrom was like watching a war general with his intelligence and tactical strategy on the battlefield who knew the enemy like a book. I'll never forget the countless times with Holmstrom in front of the net where he would deliberately shoot the puck just a touch wide because he knew Holmstrom would have his stick there to tip it in every time.
@@bartsanders1553 I think he's needlessly impressed with his own wordsmithery. I'm sure my reply was confusing to him, but at the same time, tell me what he means. Thanks for your reply and have a great day!
Lidstrom was a ridiculous player. He didn’t have the hardest shot, hardest body checks, nor was he necessarily an offensive juggernaught. He was just simply the best defenseman, and often the best player, on the ice every night. The way he could control the play and turn the flow of a game was ridiculuous.
Nicklas Lidstrom was one of the best hockey players I have ever seen. Over the course of watching hockey for almost sixty years there are two players that I would love to have gotten to sign a puck for me and they are Martin Brodeur and Nicklas Lidstrom. Holy crap those guys were special.
Feel like chara and keith should be higher. Fox maker and Hughes are great but I think it’s to early in their career to put them higher than those 2 guys
I’m going on a limb but I’m gonna say he ranked them higher because of higher ceiling and what they’ve already accomplished in such a short time. Fox won a Norris and has been excellent from the start and makar got a triple crown in the same season
Chara is top 5 for me without question. I’m 45 so I’m old as f and I’ve watched all these guys play and he was the toughest to play against in his prime than any guy I’ve ever seen.
Since I started watching hockey in 1971 or so, the most complete and dominant defenseman I ever saw, whether in the SC POs or international (Canada Cup) play was, without question (IMO), LARRY ROBINSON. Total dominance, in every area, almost all the time, in nearly every game, during his best years.
I think Larry Murphy deserved at least a call out. Fifth all time in career points by a D-Man and four Stanley cups with two different teams. As a Wings fan, I remember the huge impact Murphy had on Lidstrom once those two were partnered on the blue line. They were the best defensive pairing in the league and used skill and finesse to shut down the dreaded "Legion of Doom" line in the 97 Detroit/Philly finals.
Am slightly older than Shannon and 100% agree with having Orr, Park and Robinson on the list. And the only reason I decided to watch this video was to make sure that both Robinson and Potvin were on Shannon's list.
I normally think you're extremely well-informed and fair (and still do), but not having Stevens on here is insane. Like, even if you're just picking a single NJ defenseman named Scott, Stevens gets it over Niedermayer. Full stop.
He was the heart and soul of that team, more important than Brodeur imo. Best shut down dman of all time, Stevens was the embodiment of the Devils trap, and the reason they won 3 cups.
@@85blutch Exactly. No opponent ever said, "oh man, we gotta face Niedermayer tonight." But they sure as hell said, "We gotta get through Stevens. FUCK. I hope he doesn't literally kill me."
Theres a reason lidstrom was named captain after yzerman. His leadership on and off the ice and the example he set for younger players was key to him truly deserving that role
There's a reason they called Lidstrom "The Perfect Human." I only got to see him play live a few times but he was never out of position and his ability to read plays and take away angles was ridiculous.
The last Norris Trophy that Ray Bourque won he said he was grateful because of how good Listrom was. I don't remember if it was his acceptance speech or an interview. It did take the Norris voters a couple years to realize a great defenseman didn't have to delivery big hits or rough up the opposition.
You know what I love about these lists? Your time watching hockey lines up pretty closely with my time (but you have me beat by a bit). It's interesting to hear your take on players I grew up watching hockey.
I am East Coast hockey fan, so, I had the distinct pleasure of watching a lot of Bourque and Leetch. I believe you ranked them accurately. But, I will throw this out there - combine Bourque’s rifle shot capability, his defensive strength with Leetch’s skating and playmaking brilliance, you have, in a sci-fi dream, the most tragic and gentlemanly athlete of my generation…Bobby Orr.
Chara telling Jonny Ericksson "Drop em. Do it," over and over and Ericksson thinking about it before skating away is one of my all time favorite hockey moments.😂
@@daveeverett4689 bro media asked Hughes if he was hurt in the playoffs he was so ineffective… he wasn’t even hurt just soft non factor sorry to tell you
@@daveeverett4689 yeah the ceiling maybe… but you can’t seriously tell me that Quinn Hughes and Adam Fox right now at this point in their careers can go over Keith, Chara, and PAUL COFFEY
Glad Niedermeyer is on the list, but its crazy not to have Stevens on there, and that is not my Devils bias saying that. My Devils bias would include Daneyko, Driver, White, and a couple of others.
KEITH is 20th!!! 🤡 No Stevens. No Coffey. That right there is THREE top 100 NHL players of all time. 2 not even on the list and 1 at 20th. Dude had Quinn Hughes, Adam Fox, Rob Blake on the list over these aforementioned top 100 players of all time. This list is one of the WORST he has ever made. Bruh Al Mcinnis over Paul Coffey is CRAZY. No Stevens is CRAZY
Lidstrom was probably the most cerebral player ever. Was the best defenseman in the game, during a much rougher era I might add, and didn’t really need to hit you. He was just that much better and that much smarter.
I still feel sad about not being able to see Vladimir Konstantinov have a full career. He was such a treat to watch. A master of the hip check and a master of the open ice hit sending opponents into cartwheels on a regular basis. Such a shame what happened to him.
One of the things that is not appreciated as much as should be about Hedman is that he's never had an extremely high end defense partner. A lot of his best years he was carrying around the Dan Girardi and Jan Ruttas of the world. Never truly had a Toews to his Makar or a Hronek to his Hughes.
Anton Stralman (Toews level imo) and Sami Salo (late) were his best partners ever lol. The number of pass breakups, smothering 2 on 1's, pickpocketing/neutralizing breakaways were insane prior to his first Norris win. Defensemen really get overlooked if they aren't a top 5 point producer for their position, at least in the modern age. Point production really can get inflated for D-men if they have a great offensive system or a lot of PP time. Give me a a guy that can tilt the ice on the backend.
as someone who watched the Rangers during that time, Leetch was the best and your instincts about Leetch and any controversy is spot on, and he was always a fan favorite
Pfshaw! Good Heavens! This loutish ruffian has compiled a list. I say, good day sir! But this is a pretty good list, Lidstrom highlights are still unreal
I think you have a fairly solid list here to be honest, but, I would like to know what your thoughts are where Niklas Hjalmarsson is concerned. No *individual* hardware, but like Duncan Keith was a part of all three Cup Winning Blackhawks teams, but while his scoresheet stats weren't very impressive, there was no taking away that he had a knack for blocking shots.
Joe Sakic’s best assist in the 2000-2001 season was when he immediately passed Lord Stanley. “And after twenty two years…RAYMOND BOURQUE.” Still brings a tear to my eye.
The Hockey Guy doesn't negate and scoff on the players who played before 2000 like a lot of channels do. According to some fans anyone who played before 2006 weren't fit to lace their skates. He's objective. Good list.
My list I would not only have Scott Stevens in the top 20, but I'd have him ahead of everyone after MacInnis except for Denis Potvin. Potvin, I did get to see, from the beginning of his career, so I'd have him #2, after Bobby Orr, ahead (just barely) of Larry Robinson, who I'd have at #3. But I started watching hockey around 1970, so I've gotten to see more players. Other 1970s defensemen I'd have to include would be Serge Savard & Guy Lapointe of Montreal and Borje Salming. Guys like Hughes & Fox I wouldn't have on my list because it's still too early in their careers.
My list of picks for favourite/best defensemen would be something like this: 1. Nicklas Lidstrom = 7-time winner of Norris Trophy! 2. Ray Bourque = 5-time winner of Norris Trophy! 3. Al MacInnis = the living canon that still used an old heavy wood stick and still fired crushing pucks = imagine him with a modern stick how dangerous he would been) 4. Paul Coffey = not as much for his defense but more his incredible skating, speed and scoring touch. But his final 5 years was painfull) 5. Chris Pronger = You wanted this man on your team - never against! 6. Brian Leetch = 2-time winner of Norris Trophy, a solid scorer, a fine leader and my all-time favourite Ranger. 7. Scott Niedermeyer = Niedermayer was a superb skater rivaled by few. He always worked hard, never looked tired, no matter how long he was out there and could score 8. Rob Blake 9. Chris Chelios 10. Larry Murphy = One of the best and criminally underrated defensemen of all times. He was credited by Lidstrom as his best on-ice mentor. 11. Borje Salming 12. Vjateslav Fetisov = On international ice he was the best, but despite arriving late to the NHL, he was always a solid defender non the less and always very diciplined. 13. Sergei Gonchar 14. Viktor Hedman 15. Erik Karlsson = The modern Paul Coffey! 16. Ed Jovanovski 17. Nicklas Kronwall (Kronwalled, nuff said) 18. Sergei Zubov 19. Adam Foote 20. Mattias Ohlund = hard working and loyal man at the blue-lines, always humble but tough)
Thanks for this vid. Tired of 'best defenseman' being all about offense. It is so much more. I do not like the Bruins, but I got a Bergeron Funko solely based on his 2-way play being unmatched.
I love that you mentioned Larry Murphy as an honorable mention. I watched him when he was with the North Stars. Very underrated player I always thought.
I started watching hockey in 76-77 and Dennis Potvin was leading the NY Islanders to the top of the league. He was the anchor for 4 straight Stanley Cup championships and set everything in motion. He was among the best hitters, could battle in front of the net, was deadly in the corners, could stick handle through a team, and had an excellent shot. For team purposes, coach Al Arbour always held him back - unlike Bobby Orr - who was always given the green light to do anything. Since I'm old-school, I have a soft sport for vintage players. Today's defense is excellent but very different ... Huge skills with speed & stick handling ... but less hitting & battling in front of the net.
As a Kings fan I gotta say Duncan Keith should be higher. I feared him more than anyone else on Chicago when the Kings and hawks were the class of the west for 3 straight seasons.
Having started watching seriously in 90-91, despite THE team inside our home was the Nords and it was not a couple seasons more until they got good (and moved by that horrible businessman...), there's a guy that would be in my top 20 here that many overlook, especially because he changed teams very often,I got to enjoy him for one single season as a Nords, his best season ever, no matter where he ended up Steve Duchesne was always a top 2 defenseman you could count on and he was efficient defensively too, NEVER DRAFTED, yet ended his career with a cherry on top with a Stanley Cup with the Detroit Red Wings in 2001-2002. 752 points in 1113 games and that shortened 94-95 season and then the injury he had the next season with St-Louis, being on a pace to about a point per game each time, despite his partner beginning the season (another defenseman I think should be in this top 20, and he was robbed of many Norris trophies only for a thing he said when he was in juniors breaking Bobby Orr records, saying he was going to better than Orr in an off the cuff comment when he was just 16, never getting a Norris trophy either, Phil Housley, who unfortunately injured himself and only played 26 games in 93-94, he was then paired with Jeff Brown who also injured himself (63 games only on his way to have his best season ever, offensively, Brown was never that great defensively, he was deadly on the PP with many 20 goal seasons), hmm...St-Louis had a lot of critical injuries that season...anyways, I think Steve Duchesne deserves a place in the lower quarter of this list for all of his offensive AND defensive qualities which improved as he aged even more so. Kind of star journeyman imo.
I actually hate Norris trophy voting. It seems to be the same guy every other year, rightful candidates are not nominated, and it usually not the best defenseman who wins, and then theres the token trophy wins, where a guy gets snubbed, or narrowly loses to someone else to great fan outcry, and then they give that player one next year over another defenseman who probably deserves it more. I would love to be in the room when they decide who the Norris trophy winner is, for every other trophy there seems to be a more clear concensus or clear winner, or a diffocult decision between the top 2 players. Even the Selke, a very subjective award to nominate for, seems to pass the eye test alot of the time, the Norris winner is almost always questionable for various reasons
I agree with the people who say it should be divided into best overall defenseman and best offensive defenseman. Forwards have a dedicated award for defense, why can't defense have one for offense? I think there are some winners of the Norris that would probably just win the offensive award instead. Their defense isn't necessarily bad, but I think they end up winning because offensive stats are easier to track and are more tangible than a players defensive value. Unless you're watching all the games you don't always know how valuable a player is defensively.
I feel like the Norris trophy is now purely about pts. You can end being the worst defencive player on your team but win it with pts. Karlson won it while being the player with the most turn over of the league ending with a +/- of -21. Being the worst of his own team.
Duncan Keith at 20 is a bloody outrage *shakes fist* (I'm australian lol) 3 Lord Stanleys, 2 Norris Memorials, 2 Olympic Golds, 1 Con Smythe. All situation shutdown defencemen who could be penciled in for 40-60 points per season. Absolute freak of a human being, and apparently a super nice guy.
Everyone's lists is just that THEIR list. We all look at players, movies, music from our own perspective, so lists will be different obviously. We should appreciate everyone's personal lists. By the way, love the shout out to Rod Langway. Growing up in Caps country he was well loved in Washington. Great defender. Cheers!
I really think Lidstrom could’ve played another 3 years if he wanted. Crazy how consistent he was throughout his career. I’d love to see a goalie version of this list next
When I first got into hockey when I was 4. My Mom took me to see the New Jersey Devils. The first player whose name I could say and remember was Scott Niedermayer.
3 місяці тому
I remember watching Zedeno playing with the Prince George Cougars. I leaned over to my chum that accompanied me to the game, and said something like, "If that kid gets his legs under him, he will be a force to reckon with, in the NHL". Did I call that?!
Must be older than you, as I clearly remember watching B Orr stickhandle through the league, your list is good - I always liked Craig Ludwig, Eric Desjardin, and Al Iafrate as well
I can't believe you don't have Foote and Zubov. I agree with fellow commenters for Fetisov. And you got to accept Scott Stevens. Also Shea Webber! And honorable mentions: Eric Desjardins and Darryl Sydor. And of course you got to bring up: Eddie Shore!
I would like to see you do deep dive videos on the greatest forwards, defenseman, and goalies of all time, regardless of how much you got to watch them, and do it based on all the advanced stats and things we know, even though a lot of the players don’t have as much advanced stats data. But really give your take on the definitive rankings and why, looking beyond who the NHL decided to give trophies to.
Ok. Lidstrom #1. I’m happy. I thought you might pick Bourque over Lidstrom and I honestly wouldn’t have been upset. And thank you for mentioning Konstantinv. We red wings fan consider him a hockey god. And Fetisov held it down. And then the only pro hockey player I ever met was Chelios. Great video brother.
Lidstrom was an amazing defenseman, best I ever saw play in person. Hedman deserves at least another Norris trophy. Still remember going to Blues games when Pronger was there and all the fans booing him.
Love the respect put on Hedman, dude has been consistently a top 5 defenceman for a decade now, arguably even longer. His Conn Smythe run was absolute madness as well with 22 points and 10 goals in the playoffs! Those 10 goals in a single playoff run is 3rd best all time for a defenceman.
Nicklas Lidström was nominated for the Norris Trophy a total of 12 times. You could claim one was one on reputation, there were at LEAST 3 that he may have deserved more than the recipient early in his career.
Meanwhile Ray Bourque was nominated 19 times as well
Lidstrom was the most efficient, for sure.
But not quite the greatest, IMO.
Absolutely!
@@notrombones5041 You should learn what the words efficient mean then. Cuz it is impossible to be efficient without being the GOAT.
@@dilididli2274 This makes no sense, so only one can be efficient huh? hmm, maybe another needs to learn the word
The story of Lidstroms first day in Detroit is amazing: he is asked what number he wants and replies 9. He is taken into the arena and someone points up and says: 9 is up there, pick a different number. Then 20+ years later number 5 is retired.
Niedermayer is probably the best skater I've ever seen. He never looked tired, no matter how long he was out there.
Still remember when Bill Clement on TV said he thought Niedermayer was the best skating defenceman since Bobby Orr.
Better than Paul Coffey?
Scott Stevens should be on the list.
@@v4v819 ..ya bud he was..an i place Coffey much higher on his list
Fast but elegant, always seems effortless. He blocked A LOT of shots too. Needless to say, he played under Jacques Lemaire and Uncle Lou.
Fetisov is considered the best USSR Defenseman of all time and even at older age he was a great NHL defenseman
I'm old enough to have watched him play for the CCCP on the TV when I was a kid, and let me tell you he was incredible. And I say that as a Swede.
Cheers 🍺
Slava was the Man.
Today Fetisov continues his politcal career in Russia as Russian Minister of conservation
Hey Shannon I usually don’t comment often but I just wanted to say I really enjoy your list videos
Lidstrom's game was so subtle that I forget what it was like watching him and I wish he could be reborn in someone's body and play another entire NHL career.
As long as he still wore the winged wheel I'm with it lol
Just imagine playing chess against someone much better than you, or poker or whatever mind games.
I never forget when Lidas was pulled thru the legs right infront of Ozzy by Forsberg in a playoff between the Wings and the Avs.
The greatest D man got yanked by the greatest forward...(the greatest playing at the time, at least.)
And both of them Swedes✌️
Great generation Forsberg Lidström Sundin Alfredsson and a few more... really great.
Especially if you consider that all of them came from the same small country up in the most northern part of Europe with a pop of just under ten million people, at the same time....
Shoutout to our Finnish brothers of the same generation too....Selennä Kapanen....and so on👏
He was so good that I just got used to that a norm
Keith was a beast but its understated just how good of a defensemen Niklas Hjalmarsson was - literally the best defensive player in the NHL for an entire decade straight but bc he didn't score a ton he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
I was just saying this above, no individual accolades. Part of all three Cup winning Blackhawks teams, but Hjalmarsson was one of the Hawks' best shot blocking d-men.
@@Darrakkii he would have had the winner in Game 7 in the second round against Detroit in 2013 if it wasnt for s stupid penalty. Seabrook came through in the end but Hjalmarsson had it if it wasnt called back.
Keith is still a legend tho 2 Norris 1 Smythe, 2 Olympics Golds, One of the 100 greatest ever. Basically traded in 6 teeth for a Cup once. Dude was insane
@@Diddybread Saad and Quincey, man, that was a BS Penalty, it was behind the play. Who calls that!?
Keith should be higher imo
Chris pronger and al macinnis in st louis in the 90s made me fall in love with hockey when I was a kid
By the way, I enjoy your list videos very much. We're never gonna agree 100 percent but that's fine because that'd make for a boring watch. What matters is your lists are always well thought out and you explain your stance well.
Thanks for mentioning Larry Robinson and why he's not on your list. I saw him play in the mid 70's and he amazed me. Sooo good. And Chara, see here's the thing, I'm a Habs fan (Canucks #2) so supposed to hate Bruins, but Chara played in Prince George, where I live now, and he was something to behold. And then there's Bourque. Oh boy.
Brett Hull's description of Lidstrom sums it up. Lidstrom was so good defensively, way ahead of everyone else on the ice mentally, that opposition players would turn back and pass the puck sideways when they looked up and saw Lidstrom was the player they needed to beat. He didn't even need to do anything else half the time, just the knowledge that he was on the ice made them give up
I would have put Scott Stevens on my list. In a lot of ways he was the player who defined his era, and people forget that he was a very good offensive defensemen.
Best shut down dman of all time, with offensive upside.
He dominated the d-zone and defensive sides blueline. He made teams change their tactics by his fysical playstyle. I would say he is top 5 all time!
Whether you love him or hate him, fact is that teams literally had to adjust their play to keep their forwards away from him. The fact that one defenseman caused teams to adjust and change their plays speaks volumes.
Total goon.
Agree
Coffey at 18 is ridiculously low
Thank you for shouting out Vlady Konstantinov
Yeah 😞
After the North Stars bailed in 93, I adopted the Wings as my favorite team. Loved Vladimir. So sad what happened to him.
Had he been able to keep playing at the level he was Detroit had arguably the best 1-2 defensive pairing of the late 90’s/early 00’s, either get run over on one side or never get an opportunity to shoot or make a clean pass on the other.
Mark Howe should get an honorable mention. He’s in the Hall and the Flyers retired his jersey, but is overshadowed by his dad.
Watching Lidstrom was like watching a war general with his intelligence and tactical strategy on the battlefield who knew the enemy like a book. I'll never forget the countless times with Holmstrom in front of the net where he would deliberately shoot the puck just a touch wide because he knew Holmstrom would have his stick there to tip it in every time.
that team was art on ice
You can have a tactical victory, you can have a strategic victory, so it's strange that you used the words together. 🤔
@@peterolbrisch8970 Perhaps he's thinking on the operational level.
@@bartsanders1553 I think he's needlessly impressed with his own wordsmithery. I'm sure my reply was confusing to him, but at the same time, tell me what he means. Thanks for your reply and have a great day!
He never seemed to get flustered or make bad passes out of the defensive zone, unlike Dumba.
what's crazy is that lidstrom didn't win his first norris until his age 30 season, and went on to win 6 MORE times after that
Lidstrom was a ridiculous player. He didn’t have the hardest shot, hardest body checks, nor was he necessarily an offensive juggernaught. He was just simply the best defenseman, and often the best player, on the ice every night. The way he could control the play and turn the flow of a game was ridiculuous.
Nicklas Lidstrom was one of the best hockey players I have ever seen. Over the course of watching hockey for almost sixty years there are two players that I would love to have gotten to sign a puck for me and they are Martin Brodeur and Nicklas Lidstrom. Holy crap those guys were special.
Watched the whole video, but really just clicked to make sure you put Lidstrom #1 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Feel like chara and keith should be higher. Fox maker and Hughes are great but I think it’s to early in their career to put them higher than those 2 guys
Completely agree.
@@t.r.m.2593maker?
At this point they passed Chara, by the end of their careers will be better then Keith
I’m going on a limb but I’m gonna say he ranked them higher because of higher ceiling and what they’ve already accomplished in such a short time. Fox won a Norris and has been excellent from the start and makar got a triple crown in the same season
Chara is top 5 for me without question. I’m 45 so I’m old as f and I’ve watched all these guys play and he was the toughest to play against in his prime than any guy I’ve ever seen.
Since I started watching hockey in 1971 or so, the most complete and dominant defenseman
I ever saw, whether in the SC POs or international (Canada Cup) play was, without question (IMO),
LARRY ROBINSON.
Total dominance, in every area, almost all the time, in nearly every game, during his best years.
I think Larry Murphy deserved at least a call out. Fifth all time in career points by a D-Man and four Stanley cups with two different teams. As a Wings fan, I remember the huge impact Murphy had on Lidstrom once those two were partnered on the blue line. They were the best defensive pairing in the league and used skill and finesse to shut down the dreaded "Legion of Doom" line in the 97 Detroit/Philly finals.
As a Pens fan I loved him. and yes 100% he should be on a list. i have him in my top 10.
Larry was mentioned in the honourable mentions
@@derfman1792 that don’t mean shit
@@TheLastSamurai813 ...just like your opinion!!
@@derfman1792 Honorable mentions usually don't mean shit. don't cry about it
I'm much older than Shannon. My list includes Bobby Orr, Brad Park, Larry Robinson gets a full position.
Am slightly older than Shannon and 100% agree with having Orr, Park and Robinson on the list. And the only reason I decided to watch this video was to make sure that both Robinson and Potvin were on Shannon's list.
@@OttawaRocksman Rob Blake at # 9 ??? 😮
I normally think you're extremely well-informed and fair (and still do), but not having Stevens on here is insane. Like, even if you're just picking a single NJ defenseman named Scott, Stevens gets it over Niedermayer. Full stop.
He was the heart and soul of that team, more important than Brodeur imo. Best shut down dman of all time, Stevens was the embodiment of the Devils trap, and the reason they won 3 cups.
@@85blutch Exactly. No opponent ever said, "oh man, we gotta face Niedermayer tonight." But they sure as hell said, "We gotta get through Stevens. FUCK. I hope he doesn't literally kill me."
Theres a reason lidstrom was named captain after yzerman. His leadership on and off the ice and the example he set for younger players was key to him truly deserving that role
There's a reason they called Lidstrom "The Perfect Human." I only got to see him play live a few times but he was never out of position and his ability to read plays and take away angles was ridiculous.
The last Norris Trophy that Ray Bourque won he said he was grateful because of how good Listrom was. I don't remember if it was his acceptance speech or an interview. It did take the Norris voters a couple years to realize a great defenseman didn't have to delivery big hits or rough up the opposition.
Shannon keep making your list we as your fans love em .
Had to click on the video to make sure you put Lidstrom at #1 😂
same
There is no one else who should be #1.
Yerpppppp
@@TheDetonation Exactly.
But fr, no Kronwall???
You know what I love about these lists? Your time watching hockey lines up pretty closely with my time (but you have me beat by a bit). It's interesting to hear your take on players I grew up watching hockey.
Yeah man, I’m 43 and totally agree.
Love your lists, Shannon, always love the discussion and analysis and choices - it’s great fun. Hope you decide to keep making them now and then. 👍
This list = 💩
Lidstrom is a legend. Great list shannon
I am East Coast hockey fan, so, I had the distinct pleasure of watching a lot of Bourque and Leetch. I believe you ranked them accurately. But, I will throw this out there - combine Bourque’s rifle shot capability, his defensive strength with Leetch’s skating and playmaking brilliance, you have, in a sci-fi dream, the most tragic and gentlemanly athlete of my generation…Bobby Orr.
Leetch over Pronger is erroneous. No Stevens, no Coffey. This list is one of the WORST lists he has ever made.
Lists are my favourites. I actually started following your stuff because of the lists. Keep up the good work!
We love you and your content Shannon, lists or whatever, it's all good 😀
Honourable mention to Doug Wilson. Norris in '82 with 39 goals, 24 even strength. 12th all time in goals. 80pts in 95 playoff games.
Chara telling Jonny Ericksson "Drop em. Do it," over and over and Ericksson thinking about it before skating away is one of my all time favorite hockey moments.😂
Who cares if people get all riled up about your lists? These are probably some of your best performing videos, so just go for it.
This list is clearly the WORST "his opinion" list.
The list is terrible. A steaming turd
I’ll never understand for my life how adults don’t know the difference between fact and opinion.
@@axe2grind244someone finally gets it!
Wow Hughes and Fox over Chara, Keith, PAUL COFFEY????
I’m taking chara keith and coffey in their primes over fox and hughes everyday of the week!
Not a chance. The ceiling on Hughes and Fox is much higher. And they’re already better D men.
@@daveeverett4689 bro media asked Hughes if he was hurt in the playoffs he was so ineffective… he wasn’t even hurt just soft non factor sorry to tell you
@@daveeverett4689 yeah the ceiling maybe… but you can’t seriously tell me that Quinn Hughes and Adam Fox right now at this point in their careers can go over Keith, Chara, and PAUL COFFEY
Definitely Shannon's list.
And Lidstrom should have won a few Lady Byng trophies as well. Amazingly low penalty minutes for a defenceman playing against opponents top line.
Larry Robinson won the Norris twice and was absolutely feared and he didn't make the list. Rough 😮
No Scott Stevens? Bit of a surprise there.
Huge surprise
did you watch the video
Love lists!!! The arguments are half the fun!!!! 😂
This list is truly the WORST he has ever made. Terrible
@yoholmes273 so you can't have an OPINION?
Hey Shannon love your consistent uploads, as a diehard hockey fan you’re the goat for hockey content
Glad Niedermeyer is on the list, but its crazy not to have Stevens on there, and that is not my Devils bias saying that.
My Devils bias would include Daneyko, Driver, White, and a couple of others.
Rafalski?
@@Quiteclueless Yep
KEITH is 20th!!! 🤡
No Stevens. No Coffey.
That right there is THREE top 100 NHL players of all time.
2 not even on the list and 1 at 20th.
Dude had Quinn Hughes, Adam Fox, Rob Blake on the list over these aforementioned top 100 players of all time.
This list is one of the WORST he has ever made.
Bruh Al Mcinnis over Paul Coffey is CRAZY.
No Stevens is CRAZY
@@yoholmes273 and Chara over Stevens? Nah. Sandis Ozolinsh? (Kidding) or am I?
@@zept2170 what about Vladimir Konstantinov?
Lidstrom was probably the most cerebral player ever. Was the best defenseman in the game, during a much rougher era I might add, and didn’t really need to hit you. He was just that much better and that much smarter.
Even though I did chuckle not seeing Scott Stevens on the list as a Rangers fan, I believe he deserved to be on this list.
Respect for putting Lidstrom at number 1, despite Bourque being your favourite defenseman.
I still feel sad about not being able to see Vladimir Konstantinov have a full career. He was such a treat to watch. A master of the hip check and a master of the open ice hit sending opponents into cartwheels on a regular basis. Such a shame what happened to him.
Obligatory "where is MY favorite defenseman this is an outrage how dare you mr hockey man guy"
Obligatory "That guy was a fraud, how dare you mention him in the same breath as these legends"
3 current defenders belong amongst the greats? 🤔🤔🤔
One of the things that is not appreciated as much as should be about Hedman is that he's never had an extremely high end defense partner. A lot of his best years he was carrying around the Dan Girardi and Jan Ruttas of the world. Never truly had a Toews to his Makar or a Hronek to his Hughes.
Anton Stralman (Toews level imo) and Sami Salo (late) were his best partners ever lol. The number of pass breakups, smothering 2 on 1's, pickpocketing/neutralizing breakaways were insane prior to his first Norris win. Defensemen really get overlooked if they aren't a top 5 point producer for their position, at least in the modern age. Point production really can get inflated for D-men if they have a great offensive system or a lot of PP time. Give me a a guy that can tilt the ice on the backend.
@@HYP3DSNIP3RStralman was solid and I love the guy but he was never as good as Toews.
@@HYP3DSNIP3R We really need 2 trophies for defenseman nowadays
as someone who watched the Rangers during that time, Leetch was the best and your instincts about Leetch and any controversy is spot on, and he was always a fan favorite
I love these. The subjectivity alone is what interest me. I agree a lot but it is interesting to see a different perspective
To me it's way too early to have Hughes on the list.
Hughes could fit towards the bottom, but why is fox here🤷
When Shannon watches Hockey he turns into Chris Jericho "You just made the LIST!" haha!
Scott Stevens belongs on this list over few people you mentioned
Nice. to see Rod Langway on the list and the nod to his mentor, Larry Robinson in Montreal.Thanks for the list videos!!
Rod Langway over Stevens and Coffey is beyond stupid
Pfshaw! Good Heavens! This loutish ruffian has compiled a list. I say, good day sir!
But this is a pretty good list, Lidstrom highlights are still unreal
Long time viewer, not a big commenter, keep making these list videos, i love them.
I think you have a fairly solid list here to be honest, but, I would like to know what your thoughts are where Niklas Hjalmarsson is concerned.
No *individual* hardware, but like Duncan Keith was a part of all three Cup Winning Blackhawks teams, but while his scoresheet stats weren't very impressive, there was no taking away that he had a knack for blocking shots.
In my opinion one of Karlsons Norris Trophies should have gone to Weber. Niedermayer was the best skater of his era. I agree Lindstrom should be #1.
He may not objectively be the 'best' but Big Buff is my favourite player and hockey hasn't been the same without him 😢
Joe Sakic’s best assist in the 2000-2001 season was when he immediately passed Lord Stanley.
“And after twenty two years…RAYMOND BOURQUE.”
Still brings a tear to my eye.
Nick Lidstrom! First European born captain to lift Lord Stanleys Cup, "the perfect human" was one of the best to ever do it. LGRW 🐙 🏒 🤘
1st European to win the Conn Smythe as well
Perfect human 😂
The Hockey Guy doesn't negate and scoff on the players who played before 2000 like a lot of channels do. According to some fans anyone who played before 2006 weren't fit to lace their skates. He's objective. Good list.
My list I would not only have Scott Stevens in the top 20, but I'd have him ahead of everyone after MacInnis except for Denis Potvin. Potvin, I did get to see, from the beginning of his career, so I'd have him #2, after Bobby Orr, ahead (just barely) of Larry Robinson, who I'd have at #3. But I started watching hockey around 1970, so I've gotten to see more players. Other 1970s defensemen I'd have to include would be Serge Savard & Guy Lapointe of Montreal and Borje Salming. Guys like Hughes & Fox I wouldn't have on my list because it's still too early in their careers.
My list of picks for favourite/best defensemen would be something like this:
1. Nicklas Lidstrom = 7-time winner of Norris Trophy!
2. Ray Bourque = 5-time winner of Norris Trophy!
3. Al MacInnis = the living canon that still used an old heavy wood stick and still fired crushing pucks = imagine him with a modern stick how dangerous he would been)
4. Paul Coffey = not as much for his defense but more his incredible skating, speed and scoring touch. But his final 5 years was painfull)
5. Chris Pronger = You wanted this man on your team - never against!
6. Brian Leetch = 2-time winner of Norris Trophy, a solid scorer, a fine leader and my all-time favourite Ranger.
7. Scott Niedermeyer = Niedermayer was a superb skater rivaled by few. He always worked hard, never looked tired, no matter how long he was out there and could score
8. Rob Blake
9. Chris Chelios
10. Larry Murphy = One of the best and criminally underrated defensemen of all times. He was credited by Lidstrom as his best on-ice mentor.
11. Borje Salming
12. Vjateslav Fetisov = On international ice he was the best, but despite arriving late to the NHL, he was always a solid defender non the less and always very diciplined.
13. Sergei Gonchar
14. Viktor Hedman
15. Erik Karlsson = The modern Paul Coffey!
16. Ed Jovanovski
17. Nicklas Kronwall (Kronwalled, nuff said)
18. Sergei Zubov
19. Adam Foote
20. Mattias Ohlund = hard working and loyal man at the blue-lines, always humble but tough)
Thanks for this vid. Tired of 'best defenseman' being all about offense. It is so much more.
I do not like the Bruins, but I got a Bergeron Funko solely based on his 2-way play being unmatched.
Quick Question, as a Stars fan, you didn't find a spot for Sergei Zubov? Just curious as to why. He had to have been close to 20.
I love that you mentioned Larry Murphy as an honorable mention. I watched him when he was with the North Stars. Very underrated player I always thought.
I started watching hockey in 76-77 and Dennis Potvin was leading the NY Islanders to the top of the league. He was the anchor for 4 straight Stanley Cup championships and set everything in motion. He was among the best hitters, could battle in front of the net, was deadly in the corners, could stick handle through a team, and had an excellent shot. For team purposes, coach Al Arbour always held him back - unlike Bobby Orr - who was always given the green light to do anything. Since I'm old-school, I have a soft sport for vintage players. Today's defense is excellent but very different ... Huge skills with speed & stick handling ... but less hitting & battling in front of the net.
A fantastic list. The talent was insane
Thanks for mentioning Constantinov and Fetisov! They were great to watch!
Hey! Thanks for that vidéo! 🥳👍🏻💪🏻
No way Keith is below Makar Fox and Hughes. Maybe in a couple years, but not right now
As a Kings fan I gotta say Duncan Keith should be higher. I feared him more than anyone else on Chicago when the Kings and hawks were the class of the west for 3 straight seasons.
Having started watching seriously in 90-91, despite THE team inside our home was the Nords and it was not a couple seasons more until they got good (and moved by that horrible businessman...), there's a guy that would be in my top 20 here that many overlook, especially because he changed teams very often,I got to enjoy him for one single season as a Nords, his best season ever, no matter where he ended up Steve Duchesne was always a top 2 defenseman you could count on and he was efficient defensively too, NEVER DRAFTED, yet ended his career with a cherry on top with a Stanley Cup with the Detroit Red Wings in 2001-2002. 752 points in 1113 games and that shortened 94-95 season and then the injury he had the next season with St-Louis, being on a pace to about a point per game each time, despite his partner beginning the season (another defenseman I think should be in this top 20, and he was robbed of many Norris trophies only for a thing he said when he was in juniors breaking Bobby Orr records, saying he was going to better than Orr in an off the cuff comment when he was just 16, never getting a Norris trophy either, Phil Housley, who unfortunately injured himself and only played 26 games in 93-94, he was then paired with Jeff Brown who also injured himself (63 games only on his way to have his best season ever, offensively, Brown was never that great defensively, he was deadly on the PP with many 20 goal seasons), hmm...St-Louis had a lot of critical injuries that season...anyways, I think Steve Duchesne deserves a place in the lower quarter of this list for all of his offensive AND defensive qualities which improved as he aged even more so. Kind of star journeyman imo.
Please do more lists. Part of the fun is seeing your opinion and lists are just fun in general.
Chelious was a monster, the ageless wonder
I actually hate Norris trophy voting. It seems to be the same guy every other year, rightful candidates are not nominated, and it usually not the best defenseman who wins, and then theres the token trophy wins, where a guy gets snubbed, or narrowly loses to someone else to great fan outcry, and then they give that player one next year over another defenseman who probably deserves it more. I would love to be in the room when they decide who the Norris trophy winner is, for every other trophy there seems to be a more clear concensus or clear winner, or a diffocult decision between the top 2 players. Even the Selke, a very subjective award to nominate for, seems to pass the eye test alot of the time, the Norris winner is almost always questionable for various reasons
I agree with the people who say it should be divided into best overall defenseman and best offensive defenseman. Forwards have a dedicated award for defense, why can't defense have one for offense? I think there are some winners of the Norris that would probably just win the offensive award instead. Their defense isn't necessarily bad, but I think they end up winning because offensive stats are easier to track and are more tangible than a players defensive value. Unless you're watching all the games you don't always know how valuable a player is defensively.
I feel like the Norris trophy is now purely about pts. You can end being the worst defencive player on your team but win it with pts. Karlson won it while being the player with the most turn over of the league ending with a +/- of -21. Being the worst of his own team.
Duncan Keith at 20 is a bloody outrage *shakes fist* (I'm australian lol)
3 Lord Stanleys, 2 Norris Memorials, 2 Olympic Golds, 1 Con Smythe. All situation shutdown defencemen who could be penciled in for 40-60 points per season. Absolute freak of a human being, and apparently a super nice guy.
Agreed
I am with you mate. And the heart of Lion too.
Duncan Teeth
I'd put him in the top 10 but I may be a bit bias(Chicago fan)
@@revanxl5612 same
Everyone's lists is just that THEIR list. We all look at players, movies, music from our own perspective, so lists will be different obviously. We should appreciate everyone's personal lists. By the way, love the shout out to Rod Langway. Growing up in Caps country he was well loved in Washington. Great defender. Cheers!
I really think Lidstrom could’ve played another 3 years if he wanted. Crazy how consistent he was throughout his career. I’d love to see a goalie version of this list next
Awesome. I am here for the lists. That being said personally I would put Stevens ahead of Hughes and Fox. Also no Shea Weber?
Yeah, being from Michigan, I loved all of Detroit's great players.
When I first got into hockey when I was 4. My Mom took me to see the New Jersey Devils. The first player whose name I could say and remember was Scott Niedermayer.
I remember watching Zedeno playing with the Prince George Cougars. I leaned over to my chum that accompanied me to the game, and said something like, "If that kid gets his legs under him, he will be a force to reckon with, in the NHL". Did I call that?!
Thanks!
If I recall, the New Jersey devils had so many great defensive men in their dynasty days like Scott Niedermeyer
Another great video from the hockey guy 🍻 Thank you 👊🏾
Must be older than you, as I clearly remember watching B Orr stickhandle through the league, your list is good - I always liked Craig Ludwig, Eric Desjardin, and Al Iafrate as well
I can't believe you don't have Foote and Zubov. I agree with fellow commenters for Fetisov. And you got to accept Scott Stevens. Also Shea Webber! And honorable mentions: Eric Desjardins and Darryl Sydor. And of course you got to bring up: Eddie Shore!
Thank you for this video. I like a good list video and this is a great one.
Love the list! Keep em coming
Wow, thanks for reminding me about Konstantinov. He hasn't entered my mind in over a decade. He was an absolute BEAST before his accident.
I would like to see you do deep dive videos on the greatest forwards, defenseman, and goalies of all time, regardless of how much you got to watch them, and do it based on all the advanced stats and things we know, even though a lot of the players don’t have as much advanced stats data. But really give your take on the definitive rankings and why, looking beyond who the NHL decided to give trophies to.
Ok. Lidstrom #1. I’m happy. I thought you might pick Bourque over Lidstrom and I honestly wouldn’t have been upset. And thank you for mentioning Konstantinv. We red wings fan consider him a hockey god. And Fetisov held it down. And then the only pro hockey player I ever met was Chelios. Great video brother.
Lidstrom was an amazing defenseman, best I ever saw play in person. Hedman deserves at least another Norris trophy. Still remember going to Blues games when Pronger was there and all the fans booing him.
Your opinions are yours and I respect you for putting them out for us. ❤