Great video, Jenna. I have the same issues with no-dig. It also assumes that the underlaying soil is already filled with soil life. For those of us with compacted soil, sandy soil, and soil low in organic matter, much of the soil life that no-dig depends on aren't in place. Your end message is spot on.
Thank you! Great point about that soil life- I'm lucky that even though my clay can be very challenging to work with, it typically does have good fertility and decent levels of soil microbiota. I didn't think about it from the perspective of sandy/low organic matter soil!
@@GrowfullywithJenna Yes. adding sand will only make it more drain resistant as clay will compact with sand and create a cementing. But you are right. adding organic matter to dilute the clay content will create micro ecology.
@@mastertechnician3372 that is an old wives tale. Concrete is made of aggregate, sand, and Portland cement. Clay soil plus sand can only encourage drainage. I put sand down to level my lawn, increase drainage for my brassicas, and loosen up my clay soil for my root vegetables. That said, the actual video was spot on! I’ve been piling compost and OM on my clay. It integrates very little unless I til. That hard pan level on my property is two inches max below the surface. I’ve had that issue you spoke of with the roots hitting.
@@GrowfullywithJenna You should mulch on top of the compost, not under. That keeps it moist Speaking of compost, not all compost is made equal. A lot of compost is sterile. A lot of it doesn't have the necessary organisms to do what you want it to do. Never buy it unless you are completely sure what is in it. I don't know what kind of compost you have, but maybe you should learn about thermophilic compost. Searching for the berkley method is a good start If you have the time, listening to dr elaine ingham will help a lot Hope you the best. I can tell you're trying. Good luck
I totally agree, for many of us “organic” and “no till” are goals to work toward over YEARS, $ and time permitting. For 20+ years my garden & property has been what I proudly and affectionately call “more-ganic” and “low-till”. My suburban lot had ground that could not be penetrated with a shovel or fork, dominated by 100’ pines and some weedy grass. Quoting a wise garden center owner “It’s Time vs Money. If you don’t have Time think Money. If you don’t have Money, think Time.” When there is time, it is spent collecting and processing “free” materials like leaves from neighbors, wood ash, “bio-char”, paper grocery bags & cardboard boxes. Recently, I found a reliable source of sawdust to mix with my grass clippings to make more compost much faster. New garden areas tilled with mowed leaves & compost for a year or two, then layered with no tilling. All shrub & perennial beds are covered with cardboard or grocery bags and topped with pine needle or leaf mulch annually. There is finally about 8+ inches of beautiful dirt & happy worms in all beds. We all have to start with what we have and our climate and do the best we can with our time, money and available resources 🌿🌾🌻🌸🌦⏰
So agree. You have to work with what you got. Best plan is always to listen to many ways and do what is going to work best for you. Getting caught up in all the shoulds and should nits prevents so many from even getting started. Heck you just got to go out there and start. Doing anything nets far better results than doing nothing. Aiming for perfect in nature is a sure fire way to make God laugh out loud.
We moved to our current property 4 years ago. The very first thing I wanted to do was to start a vegetable garden. When I dug deep to see what I was working with, I found I had 4 inches of soil on top of hard, wet clay. I ended up borrowing a back hoe from a friend and dug trenches and laid down drainage pipe. I used to have standing water after an inch of rain. No more. I then had to build the soil up because it wasn't deep and fertile enough. After 3 years of building up the soil, I finally planted last year. Worked out fine. This year I'm behind by about 2 weeks because we have had over 5 inches of rain since March 1st. I've had 2 hip replacements, back surgery and pins put in several fingers and I'm gardening like I am still a kid. My plot is only 31 feet by 15 feet, but I do alot of vertical growing due to lack of yard space. My garden is surrounded by lavender and strategically planted with other annuals and perennials. I also have a bee hive and the lavender honey is outstanding. Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge with us and good luck this growing season.
Wow!! You really took a thorough approach to starting your new garden- that's impressive. Also- how lovely it sounds, especially with having lavender and other flowering plants. Do you have a secret for growing lavender successfully with clay soil- or is it just because you spent so much time improving the soil? That's one plant I have a hard time growing and I just love it!
@@GrowfullywithJenna I have had about a 75% germination rate with my lavender seeds, starting them indoors under grow lights in just Ocean Forrest potting soil. They grow very slowly for the first few months. I created a raised bed around my entire garden and filled it with a mixture of compost, sand and pea pebbles (50%/25%/25%) to try to recreate what they might be growing in in the Mediterranean. The entire garden gets very little shading. I rarely water the lavender unless it has been unusually dry. I purchased seed from Park Seed and Baker Creek. The Park Seed had the higher germination rate. I did not stratify the seed before planting. I tried that the year before and failed miserably. I currently have 48 lavender plants around the vegetable garden. It's a sea of purple filling every inch around the entire edge of the garden. I also have 20,000 bees that seem to enjoy it, too. No pollination issues with squash anymore.
This is so encouraging. Many times the no-dig approach is spoken of as if it’s easy to haul materials from so many other places which isn’t always possible. Sometimes you just need to work with what you have, period.
Thats why I've never understood the hype about to no-dig approach. I mean, of course I will have good results when I dump a ton of perfect soil or compost in one place and plant my plants there. I could do the same with my existing garden bed, buy a ton of high quality soil and put it on top of it. I like to work with what I have on hand and improve the soil every year by mixing the existing soil with own compost, forganic fertilizer, leafmulch, grass clippings, etc.
Max Moritz you miss the point though you'd be building more soil fertility every year if you didn't destroy the fungal networks and ruin the soil structure by tilling. All the minerals and nutrients already in the soil are harder to access when its back to square one each year, if the fungal networks and old root networks are maintained the new plants can be plugged into this system and have access to a way bigger area of soil. All the new compost goes on top each year and the new plants send roots into this layer to feed so there's no need to till anything in anyway
p@@ottoflouer1750 yep I was going to say basically the same thing and the first application of compost is the only time you need 6 inch after that you can get away an inch or so once a year
yep, just because something works in Denmark or the UK or Argentina ...it may not work in Iowa, Manitoba or Florida. As you said, suitable for the soil you have
Jenna, please continue taking your sensible stand on the matter. You’re just being a very sensible person. I have watched Charles’s programs for a long time, good on him that it worked where he gardens for years. We’re all in different countries and have very different soils, climate, etc. I have rocks underneath my clay soils! I had to break the rocks to get a decent depth of soil to grow anything. The winds I have would blow away any compost if I drop them like Charles did to his plots, he’s in the UK for goodness sake. I have to dig in my compost or I lose them soon enough. Jenna, as they say, I dig what you’re doing, period! Love your sensible presentation!
Thank you, Jacob! I do try to be a sensible person most of the time 😄. Sounds like you've got some challenging growing conditions- but I'm glad you are finding ways to work with what you've got!
I have been a gardener in Ohio for years, I do mostly in ground. I have always done a deep till every spring, mainly because that’s how I was taught by my dad, until 2 years now I,m only do a light till when needed. It’s working out nicely adding organic matter and cover crop in the fall, fresh organic matter in the spring before planting. The worm population is growing rapidly! I’m pleased with the results so far, it makes a huge difference when your gardening in ground verses raised beds, using the no till method. it doesn’t have to be complicated, just what works best for you!!
I'm so glad to hear this is working for you and that your worm population is growing! You're right- it doesn't have to be complicated. I think we as humans always tend to want to overcomplicate things! Thanks for sharing.
Hi Jenna, a very sensible & balanced look at ‘No Till.’ I’ve come to realize that No Till is to be seen more as a goal than a hard & fast methodology. Especially in a new garden. Once you reach it you’ll know it. Interestingly, there is a fantastic tool known as a Broadfork. They are simple, but expensive due to a lot of good steel & blacksmithing skills required. I thought it was way too expensive for me. Then my brother gifted me one. Boy did my opinion change! Broad forking is actually considered ‘no till.’ A broadfork is basically a wide, heavy fork with two strong handles, one on each side. You start the tines into the soil, then stand on the fork bar, using your body’s weight & wiggle/rocking to sink it completely down to the bar. Then you step back & pivot the handles down, which cracks open the soil. Fill the cracks with compost/alfalfa pellets/leaves/manure/organics. Step back 8-12” and repeat until your plot is all loosened. This works best on moist, NOT soggy clay/earth. So wet your hard pan days before using this fork. Any time of year is good to use a broadfork, fall is the best time if the organic material still needs to break down a bit (hot manure/grain pellets). In spring, compost can go right in. You’re also getting air into the soil, always a good thing. Broadforking does not cause an explosion of weed growth like roto-tilling does. It’s kinda fun & a little workout. There are very good videos on You Tube about this. If you’d like to “try-before-you-buy,” find your county/parish extension agent and ask them if they have a “demonstration farm.” Every one of the farms I’ve been to use the broadfork. If you agents are friendly, they might let you put a refundable deposit down to borrow for an afternoon. If they’re not that friendly, you could ask them if they have an area that needs forking that you could try it on. Or maybe just let you fork a few times somewhere. It’s good to make friends with extension agents & demonstration farmers. The whole reason for them to exist is helping us grow things better. The wider the fork, the more weight is required to operate. It’s important that the tines are not round rods, but made from steel bars for strength. Sort of like a large version of the guard that slips over hair clippers. Try Craigslist or Amazon, make sure to read the reviews and pay attention to durability issues. You’ve mentioned that you admire your hardworking worms for doing a lot of the work for you; might I suggest that you employ other hard workers from the Plant Kingdom? It’s new to me, but I’ve read many favorable things about green manures in general, and Fava, buckwheat & comfrey specifically. This year I’m planting Fava & buckwheat cover crops. Interestingly, the fresh new leaves of Fava are also nutritious and edible in salads & soups. If your winters don’t freeze your soil rock hard, you can plant them (6” spacing) in the fall & they’ll come up & grow over winter. They send roots down through the hard pan. When you harvest, use a hoe to cut off the plants so the roots stay in place to rot & breakdown. You’ve just increased your soils organic matter & left tunnels just like the worms. There are nitrogen nodules among the roots that will breakdown & fertilize your beds. According to Dr. H. Lector, Fava’s are exquisite when paired with a nice Chianti. If you don’t like ‘em, compost ‘em before they set fruit. If you like what they do to your hard pan, you could have a Fava patch that moves to a different location every year. Oddly, they’re expensive to buy as garden seeds, unless you find a bag of Fava cover crop seeds. I found them at nuts-dot-com by the pound, reasonably priced. Buckwheat’s another nitrogen fixer to look into. Comfrey is the ultimate sod-buster but a little hard to find. The best comfrey is Russian #14. Wild comfrey spreads like crazy if you let it go to seed, but #14 generates sterile seeds that don’t grow; like rhubarb it is propagated via root cuttings. I’m still waiting to find comfrey starts. Might be enough for a follow-on video.
I have the same issues here. I have to rip the compacted soil first and then start my no dig garden after that. The soil needs aeration for it to actually build microbial life in it. Just a rip to start, then there is no digging after that. Those nutrients need to get to the soil below to get it all going. I enjoyed the video. 👍
Thank you for this video. After almost 20 years I have my soil much better than the clay I started with. I have adapted to a mix of raised beds and raised rows. (pretty much like yours) except it took several years of tilling in organic mater and double digging to create them. Now that it is established I just dig a trench down the middle and add composted manure and amendments than cover it back up. I use cardboard and woven weed fabric to control weeds. No mulch because of my Virginia creeper problem. Mulch just makes it easier for the stuff to sneak in and get established before I know it's there. So many people read a book and become militant about one method or another and think it is the best and only way. Every garden has it's own challenges and one size does not fit all.
Great video, so refreshing to hear a balanced point of view in a world filled with no dig repetition enthusiasts. We have to use a variety of methods here also. You make a great point about the sheer volume of compost required for a no dig bed which very few no dig promoters ever mention.
This is literally so comforting, we bought our house last year, and about half of the yard has been gardened and has decent soil, but the rest is basically just hardpan, there's barely even any topsoil. I do want to dig as little as possible, but it just seemed like it didn't make sense to not dig at all when there's no apparent life in the soil since it's just red clay. So yes, this makes me feel like my instincts are maybe on the right track, so thank you for this!
I'm so glad! And definitely follow your instincts- I feel like many folks don't give their 'gut' feelings enough credit. As you grow and learn with your garden, you are the one who knows that soil better than anyone else. Best of luck!
A few more solutions would be helpful. Some helpful ones I think should be included. 1. A french drain is simple to install and ensures excess water is directed away 2. Cover crop plants with deep tap roots penetrate clay soil. Those roots eventually break down and create humus. Comfrey is a self seeding perennial that dives into clay soil up to 3 meters!
I absolutely love your presentation. Turning clay soil with adding and mixing with compost and topping soil to reduce the clay cementing is a brilliant Idea.
Nice to finally hear someone acknowledge the cost of what a lot of YT home gardening presenters recommend. I see some channels applying soil from 20 litre plastic bags and wonder how they afford it. A 20 litre bag of soil goes for between $5-$15 depending on quality and just one of our raised garden beds would need at least 6. The ground beds are 90 feet long and about 4 feet wide so you are talking thousands of dollars. Same with buying compost or mulch. We garden with a make do attitude and buy almost nothing. Lawn clippings are used for mulch, and yes you have more seed and therefore more weed come up using lawn clippings instead of clean straw, but guess what, it is a free by product. Soil improvement (base is red clay) has to be a slow process. Whatever we can compost from kitchen and around the yard gets used but once it is all used we have to wait till nature sends more. The idea of gardening was to know what went into our food and save money. I find it hard to imagine most people are saving money if they are spending so much at the nursery. Mostly we don't even buy seeds because we collect our own for resowing. We also have drainage issues with our clay. When we dig a hole to plant a tree the hole usually fills 1/3 with water. Unless it is summer. Then you need a jackhammer to dig a hole.
I also try to make due, and my constant goal is self sustainability. I'd like to get to the point where I'm not relying on stores for any of my supplies. It sounds like you are nearly there-- that's awesome! I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea, but I just wanted to present an alternative view!
In my younger years, I was all about digging. Now that I'm......cough cough......MATURE, I do no dig. I have awful clay, but have managed to make a smallish garden by just piling up manure, grass clippings, and leaves. It's not fantastic like my old garden in Michigan (I'm now in Illinois), but it's enough to grow what we need.
I have very clay soil and no dig has been amazing for us. HOWEVER, we DID have to initially buy/bring in a bunch of compost to start with. Now though, it’s easier and only a little is needed. I never tilled the land beforehand either.
What was your initial amendment strategy that worked? I have about three inches of top soil going to sandy clay to hard pack clay eventually hitting wet sand at 5 feet. I tried tilling the top 6 inches last year but everything just sat inside a poorly draining “clay pot.” This year I’m giving up on tilling and going to run an earth auger down the full 5 feet for each tree and shrub. Then I’ll fill with 50/50 compost/native soil. Inoculate with microrrhizea. Then top dress everything with mulch. See any problems there?
@@TheChupacabra if you are having issues with drainage, it may be beneficial to mound your shrubs and trees. It will at least make the roots less likely to sit in standing water. I live in Canada and my soil is hard brown clay and this has worked for me. (I also dug my holes like 6 feet across and 4-6 ft deep). Was a lot of work but at least my plum trees aren't drowning now
Hi Jenna, here in Sydney i generally have a clay sub base soil in my area. While I generally follow the principles of no dig, I agree that you sometime have to adjust your style to suit your area. Cheers
My problem with no-dig is this. I am 80 yrs old and have COPD. We are moving next week and the new yard has never been gardened. It is in zone 6b and the soil seems to be mostly clay. I may not be able to garden for too long due to my age and health so may not have 3 or more years to get no-dig to work. I will till as deep as I can, add compost and wheat strow to work into the existing soil. I hope to get a fairly good garden if not this year then next. I believe the concept is good but for you and me with hard clay, not so much. I am a new sub and really appreciate your vlogs. Havagudun Jenna and God Bless. Keep em coming!
I'm glad you did this video. I've been trying somewhat unsuccessfully to do no dig beds on my property for several years. Now I think I may have issues with drainage underneath my beds. I'm going to look into this further. Thank you.
Same situation here in my Northern California garden with our native hard pan Adobe clay. Couple that with our drought like conditions for most of the year, and it becomes a recipe for disaster if you think that no dig method will work, especially if you're trying to get a garden going in one or two seasons. I have resorted to digging deep holes and planting in them. Every year I layer compost and mulch on my beds. Eventually now after about 4 years the holes that I am digging are starting to connect, and the earthworms are moving between them, and creating some pretty amazing soil. So yes I dig, but just the holes that I want to plant in. That's what works for me. Thanks for a great video.
I’m on year three of gardening in heavy clay soil. After the first year we covered w/ a layer of straw & manure, let it over-winter, and tilled under in the spring - it made a huge difference!! This year, tilled under the dead plants from last year’s garden. Have to use a cultivator to break up the soil when it’s time to plant also. This year using cardboard & weed fabric on walkways, plus straw (once I can source it) and starting a compost pile. Will weed and then compost around plants this year & hopefully next year, planning to not till at all, as the planting spaces will not have been walked on at all.
Very well said. I used tillage to start my garden because of clay and then switched to a broad for after year one. I’ve had nothing but positive results but could not have done it without tillage. I’ve tried to talk with newbie no-till people because that model only works with optimal soil conditions. Layering of soil can be just as damaging. After all we are humans and only live so long. We can’t wait too long for mother nature.
I think my situation is similar to yours, but with more rain. I have pretty heavy clay soil with a lot of rock in it, and a very high water table. Actually, I'm in a flood zone. My first two years I did till and had awful results. The soil would harden on top in between rains. Plants drowned in water that sat there, not soaking in, when rain came. So I dug pathways lower than ground level and piled that soil on top of the beds, then have slowly added cardboard, compost, fallen leaves etc to build the beds even more. That solved a lot of the issues. Now every year, things get better. Then last year I added some new beds on top of untilled grass. I did a cardboard layer, then compost, then grass clippings as mulch. Those beds did very well, but not necessarily better or worse than any of my other beds.
Wow. My eyes are finally opened... This is exactly what our whole property is, clay and hardpan. Water doesn't sink into the ground, we just have massive run-off. Suggestions on how to deal with our 4 acres of hardpan and clay? I was wondering why a few years ago we lost all our corn to a wind storm. Now I know. The roots couldn't get through the clay and hardpan. We have dug and put drainage pipes underground with still no success. Thank you for opening my eyes.
I'm so sorry to hear you are dealing with this, Laurie. This is what I do to improve my clay: ua-cam.com/video/QS7qQVOzK7g/v-deo.html But I tackle it one bed at a time- on a scale of 4 full acres you might consider running through with a sub-soiler first, followed by cover crops/organic amendments etc. If you have sodic clay, gypsum supposedly can be a helpful amendment. Some one here mentioned green sand, which again, depending on the type of clay you have, might be something to look into. Biochar could be yet another amendment option.
A friend in Ohio has successfully used daikon radishes to breakup his hard clay soil. What you do is plant them but never harvest them, let them rot in the ground. Of course you lose the time in that area as you do it, but it's something to think of.
I learned about "double dig" garden bed prep and am trying that as I'm gardening for the first time this year. Very glad I did it, as I discovered similar soil to yours. Fingers crossed that aerating the soil this way + compost will give me a successful first year!
My dad had great results with the double dig technique- but it's definitely a lot of work- especially in clay! I do think it helps in the long run. Best of luck!
Our experience trying this in clay is that it is a) really really heavy to move, and b) you have to be very careful not to make it worse if the ground is too wet or too dry. Like so much else, it works better if you've already got good gardening soil!
That's how l learned. Double digging. And it's hard but the amount of produce you get like that, is awesome. Besides the harder you work for something the better you appreciate it.
As a no dig gardener I find your video really good. I believe Charles Dowding has clay soil but maybe not with the underlying soil you have. I am sticking to no dig for several reasons. I like the fact it doesn’t disturb the microbes in the soil or release carbon. Also as a disabled person who can’t dig this is the only way I can grow my own food. I can roll over the ground, which is fine on compost but not on soil. It is difficult sourcing enough compost to start but I have friends and neighbours giving me all their compostable waste so I’ll soon be making plenty and it’s only the start when you need loads. I appreciate this may not work for everyone such as yourself, well done for giving it a go. If you message Charles he is really helpful at answering questions. Good luck with your growing from zone 8 UK x
Interesting to hear an alternative view. I’m no dig in the UK and a huge fan of it after also being more traditional in the past. We are on heavy clay soil at an allotment. I’ve seen huge benefits in reducing watering needs, less but still weeds and better produce. We are lucky that we can get cow manure very cheap so I don’t have the expense problems you have. In my experience you don’t need 6 inches to start. 3 inches is fine on our soil. That may be because the allotment has been worked for a long time. Our allotments have seen a huge increase in the number of people using no dig so I would say it works here very well.
Here is the deep south, we have a year round growing season, particularly for weeds. Also, the clay layer starts at just a few inches below the surface of the soil. I think a no-till or no-dig method would be difficult here, particularly with the viney weeds we have that sink new roots from the vines as they grow across the ground, centipede grass for example. Soil compaction can be another issue too. What I do is to grow a winter cover crop, usually Crimson clover (which is also a legume), then mulch it with the lawnmower and till it into the topsoil. Much of the new organic material remains on top of the soil, which helps with weed control for the first month or so after tilling. Then it's back to mowing between rows...
Ugh... yes, some of those creeping or rhizomatous weeds are a bear to deal with! I've always been envious of folks with longer or year round growing seasons, but didn't think about the weeds growing year round too! But, I'm glad you've found a technique to deal with it.
I am 0% no dig. I've been some of everything through the years, and the one consistent outcome with all the alternative forms of farming was lack of quantity and quality of harvest. Three years ago, I decided to use my compost as fertilizer only and went back to old-time farming, and my harvests more than quadrupled! I call it farming because it is now much to large to be a garden. It's pushing 1/2-acre of crops, and the soil is a near ideal loam.
Northeast Indiana here. You laid out our problems with this method and Back to Eden. Nightmares and flooded plants for the last two years, we can't afford another bad year so we are going back to a hybrid of soil building and traditional methods.
Thanks for this video and talking about cost. In the gardening world, I think that we let perfection be the enemy of progress, and we forget about accessibility. Definitely, minimal soil disturbance is great, but instead of no till, we should call it low till. In Los Angeles, the soil is rather dense. Its like clay loamy soil. No till can work here, but it requires some level of up front investment of time and money and that just isn't super accessible
Well said, Anthony! I hate to see cost get in the way of anyone's desire to garden, and I absolutely agree- we tend to let perfection be the enemy of progress. It doesn't need to be that way. Take care!
Here in central west Texas, Abilene, TX. My property without any top soil…a lot of shale rocks, compacted clay, hard pan,, no worms, NO rain. I killed off grass and weeds with 6 layers of heavy cardboard boxes from mattresses store. I tried adding potting soil and peat, on top and covered for a year, no good. Then tilled in aged chicken manure and rabbit manure, wow what a difference with my irrigation going, finally loads of worms! My soil finally able to grow something!.😊
I have clay soil so I put in raised beds. My tomato plants keep acting root bound, and now I know why! Thank you for this video! I will have to experiment with "dig" and "no dig" combinations.
No dig has its benefits under certain conditions. Clay soil doesn't seem to be one of them. And its application is useful under certain circumstances. If your garden is more or less a hobby, then you have all the time in the world to amend the soil. If you are producing food for your family; the expense, time, and effort might not be worth it in the long run--especially in clay soil. I'm glad you made a video that addresses these issues. There are pros and cons to any endeavor, and it is best to account for them before sinking a lot of time and money into a project. Thank you!
I am a relatively new gardener. Strictly no dig last year (first growing season on new beds on heavy clay) and had very good results. This year I have forked most of the beds to try and aerate and loosen a bit more of the clay. Making tons of home made compost. We have become a literal factory of hot composting. I think home made compost rather than purchased is much richer in biological activity..... just my suspicion..... plus it is free. I whole heartedly agree that mixing techniques to match your conditions is a good approach. Love that you fly the flag for Charles Dowding. He is a huge resource and a good inspiration.... as are you. Cheers!!! Great vid!!
I have the same suspicion about the compost, Steve! Glad to hear the no dig is going well for you and glad to hear you've plenty of home made compost- that's awesome!
Your suspicion is completely right. I've talked to someone working at the municipal waste management here and she has confirmed that their industrial composter is specifically designed to self-heat up to 60°C to kill off certain earth-bound pathogenes like anthrax, weeds and other pests, but also much of everything else. Your homemade compost will contain worms, arthopods and a greater diversity of bacteria.
Very well said!! We got a bit attached to the idea of deep mulching a few years back, and tried really hard to make it work like everyone said it would. But for us, it just became a home for voles that decimated the rest of the garden, so I had to give up on that idea. Same with the cardboard mulch. It made such a good vole home, I stopped using the cardboard sheet mulch around the annual vegetable beds. I now have a hybrid style like you, which I’m happy with. 🙂
Trees in my front yard i planted several years ago died from hardpan clay. I had no idea until this year. Thanks! I planted muskadines, a peach tree and two plum trees in large half barrel pots above the clay. Their roots grew out the bottom and into the topsoil over two years aerating the soil below and are thriving. It didn’t dawn on me about the front yard 🙄 I left the pots so the chickens don’t scratch up the bases.
Scotland here, also with clay. I'm opting to dig the beds by hand once as I establish them, digging in loads of manure as I go, and then aiming for just a top-dressing of compost in subsequent years. The beds I dug over last year are so much nicer to work with already. They have a friable top layer that can be raked and drilled, and plenty of worms, which I'm taking as a good sign. I'll probably re-dig occasionally for potatoes, but I'm hoping that with a fork by hand it's at least not as bad as pulverising it with the rotovator. Another plus for digging them over to start with is to remove a lot of stones and rocks.
Here in central Louisiana, I have alot of clay. I add 12" or more of wood chips/leaves on top and I will till this into the clay to help it. I also do alot of cover crops on unused plots It has helped out alot to make my soil. I do have to compensate by adding some nitrogen, but I have tested all of my plots and everthing is high or very high . My organic matter is above 5.5. Every year my soil gets better and better. This is what works for me. It s a marathon and not a 100 yard dash to improve the soil. Patience is needed.
I'm also in Central Louisiana and only have about 2 inches of topsoil before hitting dense clay. This is my first year doing an in-ground bed, which I did till and amend with a couple yards of garden soil I purchased. A family member told me about John and Bob's soil treatments and I am trying the whole clay soil kit out right now. I would love to see someone do a video on these products, especially the Penetrate for helping soil drain.
Great information. I agree “no dig” is not everything. I think we have to respect that our ancestors actually grew great gardens and relied on their gardens to stay alive. I started my garden 13 years ago with very poor soil and have deep tilled and produced and added compost. I believe any soil can be improved but it takes time. Too many people get into a fad and get discouraged when it doesn’t doesn’t work immediately. Keep up the great work.
I've had similar issues on very rocky sandy soil. The only way to really make it work is to dig the beds over, remove the rocks, mix in a lot of amendments, firm it back down and then doing no-dig on top of that works great from then on.
I don't like how carefully you hate to iterate your last point with such a solid well-reasoned and constructed video, the no-dig-dogma must be insanely strong. This was great and really informative!
I'm in zone 5 in Northwest Indiana and also have this kind of clay soil. As a beginner gardener, this was super helpful! I have started out with a few small no-dig gardens, but will be experimenting more with tilling. Subscribed!
Hi Jenna, Compliments on your outfit! Looks really professional! You asked for a comment on clay: Setting up the patch I dig down to the clay, approximately a foot down, and mix it in with well rotten, 2-3 years, manure. Last year I topped it with bought compost. This year I put some rough coco coir with quite big chunks in it, mixed with perlite. I saw a French professional gardener doing the perlite in the patch, so I gave it a try as a topping. My view is how the mix will do in the long run, and of course, it has to be usable this very season, at least agreeable for the plants put in it. The patches that have been there for a while, three-four years, is way above ground level, up to two feet, and is doing fine. I never till or turn it around, just leave it and it will till itself - for exampel you harvesting the potatoes or put in or taking out some sticks for the verticals. At last, the water: How about digging in a drench pipe?! Farmers have done that the last hundred years to really improve the productivity. It leads the water away from your patch.
Let all your grass and clover grow without cutting it and stop watering it. This will do two things; cause your grass to grow a deeper root system, and give you all the organic matter you need for a productive garden. You can also add things like mallow, mustard, dikon, and burdok to break up that hard pan. Let them grow for a season and chop the tops off and the roots will decay to become organic material much deeper than you can till. The spaces left by the decaying roots will add the aeration you lack.
Spot on! I do something similar to this in some areas- but honestly I get so much use out of grass clippings as garden mulch that I will always mow & collect some of the lawn. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve been gardening In my backyard for about 40 years, so I’m not starting from scratch! I used to turn everything over in the spring, but for several years I gave been following the no-till regimen and also mulching my vegetable beds with shredded leaves collected in the fall. I can’t say that the outcome is significantly better, but I’m certainly digging less, weeding less, and watering less. The Nova Scotia climate is harsher than that in southern England, so I can’t follow Charles Dowding to the letter, but I’ve certainly learned from him. I also follow other gardening UA-camrs who live near me, and that helps. I make my own compost from kitchen scraps, yard waste, and leaves. It never gets hot but always has worms, even in the dead of winter. We get a fair amount of rain and I collect it in rain barrels. I hand water my small garden when necessary, and rarely use tap water.
Very well laid out commentary which makes sense. I have somewhat sidestepped the whole issue as some of its proponents seem a bit - well, bordering on evangelical. My soil is sandy loam so I am not faced with much other than pockets of clay, and I am not about to raise a garden big enough to feed the neighborhood - flowers are more my objective. Thanks for taking the time to lay out the issues as you have faced them (including very practical ones!)
Thanks for this video! gardening can be so much fun there’s more than one way of doing something. I encourage people to just dig in , plant some Veg & seeds, try different things. 😊
Hybrid works the best for me when gardening in clay, as you described. A generous application of green sand around the planting spaces seems to help as well. It absorbs water and expands helping to crack up the soil. It also adds needed minerals. I've mostly planted things like echinacea's, irises, lilies and they've all done well.
Ooh- thank you for mentioning the green sand, Susan. That is something I want to try. I plan to do a test of soil amendments specifically for clay soil this year!
Yes, I too had great success with using greensand years ago! I tracked down some gypsum last year to try it also. I thought it would be easy to find and somewhat inexpensive.
I also live in Ohio and have very similar soil - thick, heavy clay. I’m trying to do one round of tillage in the fall, followed by a winter terminated cover crop, then no till/dig from spring to fall. I’m only just starting to plant after the first winter of cover crops. I am struggling to get germination on my direct seeded plants so far this spring. I did not elevate my rows, but will likely try that this fall when I till again.
I love compost and never can get enough of it. And that's the Achilles heel of no till - compost. If you can't get it, trust the quality or justify the cost, you have to find other ways. A garden can't generate enough of it's own compost - you need to find offsite sources. Cover crops are great but if you only have one season to grow it, you need to rotate your crops which requires much more space. I'm on board with your hybrid approach.
We came to the very same conclusions (failures) with no-dig and Back to Eden gardening. Even with raised beds, we had fire ants taking over the corners of every single bed, even those planted with mint. We have actually gone back to tilling and forming raised rows without walls/borders. The bottom line is that however popular and beneficial a method might be if I can't produce food for my family and it becomes so frustrating that we hate gardening, then we have missed the main reasons that we do this. I would love nothing more than for BTE, Lasagna, No-dig, or other methods to have worked, but they created way more work, with less food and my family was no longer willing to garden.
I could not have said this better myself! I'm sorry that you had to go through that frustration, but I'm glad you've settled on a method that works for you and your family!
Great advice Jenna ,what works for one may not work for another do what works for you take good general care of soil and plants and you will have success.
Love your practical informative style! It is so refreshing to hear the good and bad of a particular method. We just cleared land to build a barn greenhouses orchard and garden but now we have an exposed hard clay field. We planted rye grass as a stop gap. Suggestions for next steps?
I generally just try to add all the organic matter I can- composted wood chips are awesome (or dump a layer of fresh woods chips on top, if you can wait a year or two for them to breakdown), I'm a big fan of manure (cow, horse, chicken...)- again- composted if you're planting soon, fresh if you can wait a while before planting- (also, make sure the animals haven't been given any feed treated with persistent herbicides), compost, leaf mold... etc. I also continue to use cover crops between my vegetable crop plantings. Some folks claim gypsum has helped their clay, but I'm not tried it yet and have heard it really only works for sodic clay. Not sure if you've watched it yet, but this video covers how I improve my clay soil: ua-cam.com/video/QS7qQVOzK7g/v-deo.html
Great video. Often you have to dig, before no dig / no till. Ruth Stout had a plow man for years until she 'asked' the asparagus why she didn't have to dig for him....and then turned to straw. Paul Gautschi (Back to Eden) tilled for years before he turned to compost and wood chips. I inherited 'parking lot soil'. Only after repeated tilling and tilling in green manure cover crops could I begin to think about no dig /no till. I still have the Troybilt tiller but only till 1-2" to prepare seed beds (of 3' raised mounds).Covering the beds from fall to spring with landscape fabric and lots of shredded leaf mulch during the growing season to suppress weeds and enrich soil, ALONG with as much compost as I can make! 🙂
Great explanation. I agree. Though I have two 5 foot by 50 foot raised beds that I use nothing but no dig in and they produce tons of food, I also have a couple traditional garden spaces that I still grow cover crops and till. We are clay soil too here in East Texas. To start the no digs I did however use a fork a couple times a year to just crack the soil. I don’t need to do that any longer. One size does not fit.
Your hit the nail on the head Jenna, no one shoe fits all and everyone should take your advice and try different ways of gardening. That's what makes it fun to me is trying new things. Love your insight on things.
I have clay with hardpan underneath, and I start out with a double dig 1st. This makes for tremendous results but extremely hard work. Once you do a double dig then you can do a lot less work to maintain the bed.
Tiny suburban gardener here. We built four 4' x 4' x 4" raised beds but we dug out about 6" of clay & rock before filling with a mix of topsoil & potting soil. We've been amending that soil every year with a meager amount of compost I've been able to produce + purchased topsoil + fertilizer.
I'm 'no dig' now, but when I initially put my beds in, I tilled - once. I wanted to use my beds that same season and needed to break the sod and blend what was there with purchased compost. I only amend the beds now and they are in great shape and full of life. I am not opposed to tilling if it's not frequently repeated. Sometimes tilling needs to happen when circumstances make sense.
I've found burying sticks and other biological materials in my hard clay has done amazing things for revitalizing my soil. The difference between where I've done it and haven't is huge!
In my experience and from the veggie farmer online formations I keep watching, there are only two ways to be no dig in heavy clay. The first one is to dig a last time, on about 20-30 cm of soil, and then put a ton of wood chips over that. Like 20 cm of wood chips, boom. And then you wait. You will have massive nitrogen depletion the first year or two, but after two years, when you worm population has been multiplied by 100 (it's times 10 every year), your soil should be fine. It's what farmers do. The other way, the nicer way, is to use winter cover crop. I do this in my garden. I put rye, vetch, phacelia, fava beans and winter pea in October, squash it down with a pallet in May when it flowers (important to wait until it flowers so it's done its job), then I put wood chips or spent barley + wood chips over it. It's ready to plant in two weeks later. On beds where I couldn't sow a cover crop, and where there's just wood chips, it usually compacts over winter, and I need to dig it before planting in Spring. This is the only time I use digging. I've compared the dig and no dig cover crop methods : they produce the same. So no dig works. But since it's a lot of work to sow cover crops, about half my beds I Have to dig. And during the season, everything is mulched, except the small seeds like carrots that I have to sow on a layer of mature compost. I'm hoping that by mulching everything and rotating the beds I do cover crops on, I will have enough worms that I don't necessarily have to do cover crops all the time and that mulch will be enough... I'd still do cover crops though coz they're so pretty and harbor a ton of insects. I've had fails with no dig in the first year because I didn't dig it one last time. For example, I did the "potato under mulch" method, when I just put potatoes on the ground, a layer of compost, and a layer of wood chips. The potatoes never rooted in the soil, so it was a poor harvest. Now I dig one last time if needed, and I always make sure to plant the potato in my clay soil, not just on top.
At my dad's he has done the wood chips and wait- and that did yield some beautiful results. I utilize cover crops extensively- but I've not put the wood chips over the cover crop- I'll have to try that. It's also good to hear from someone who has compared the dig vs no dig yields. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
Great video. I also have a hard pan about 10 inches down. That is why I run my subsoiler at 20 inches deep, to help water get down to that level. It should only take one or two passes with the subsoiler to loosen the garden area.
I'd really like to get a subsoiler over to my mom & dad's place- Like you said, I think 1 or 2 passes and leaving it at that could really help. After that we could focus on rebuilding the soil.
I'm in Ohio. You need a lot of compost to begin a no dig system. It gets easier over time tho. In my 3 rd year. It works great. Oh and wood chips in paths and around.
Glad to see an honest opinion. No-Dig has become the rule (almost a dogma), but it fails to clearly state that works great under very specific conditions: access to a high amount of compost, regular rain to keep always moist, no clay soil and may be other conditions I've not seen on my own experience. I do think each one needs to look at own conditions and not apply universal rules.
Heavy Clay soil that I have been amending with home made compost and mushroom compost for at least twenty years. Still haven't transitioned 100% to no dig. Always seed with rye grass in the fall and top dress in the spring. One of my beds that is mainly for root crops is over 12" deep and I still have to lightly work it in the spring.
You are absolutely right and, similar to the many comments posted, I have also struggled with my clay/sand soil. Almost always the no-dig crowd pop-up and simply claim that I just didn't try hard enough. The no-dig method can work but I have seen quite a lot of failures as well and not just on clay soils, which is why I whole heartily agree with you that gardening should not be dogmatic. I have started to make 'biochar' in my wood stove, which is quite efficient as I can use the wood gas to heat my house and the biochar is ground up and ends up in my compost bin. The biochar helps to loosen the clay/sand soil, making it less soggy in winter and prevents it turning into some kind of concrete in summer.
In that case I feel I should add that I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination. However, from what I have learned is that woodchips are a great source and not too chunky. You can use GN 1/2 (kitchen ware, stainless) and with the matching lid, you can make 'biochar' in your stove. There is quite a lot of info out there. Hope this helps and thank you for all the great content on your channel!
Thank you for mentioning the water retention of clay. I garden in west Texas. My native area is hot, arid and windy so compost can lose water in a matter of minutes. The clay holds water much better so I amend my native with some compost and it holds on to water excellently. I found with roses planting them in a hole without disturbing the surrounding soil and just an inch or so of compost at the bottom, is great. It takes 2 years for them to get established but when they do I only water every 2 weeks or less even when temps are in the 100s every day.
I should have added I use species roses not hybrids because hybrid roses are delicate and the grafted tops die in my area. They cannot deal with the heat and wind.
Thanks for sharing-- I'm sure this will give folks dealing with the same issue hope! You bring up an excellent point... it's important to seek out those plants that can handle the soil (and heat)... but during those 100 degree days clay can be a blessing!
Thanks Jenna. Good topic. I used to rotor till my garden every spring but a couple years ago started practicing more no dig and being more diligent with keeping my garden mulched all year around. Now I compost all my beds in the fall as Charles does and put leaves mixed with some grass clippings down as a mulch. I noticed last year less flee beetles which may or may not have been from no dig. I definitely noticed more worms also. I have mostly raised beds and as I replace old dilapidated boxes with new boxes I practice Hügelkultur techniques before I put the new box in place. I have noticed the soil in the old bed is sometimes compacted so I do rototill before digging it out. I dig down several inches below grade, put a layer of half rotted logs, followed by horse manure and straw, and rough organic matter such as bush clippings, old asparagus canes or viney material such as pole beans. Then compost and the old tilled top soil covered with more compost and mulch. A lot of work but I know that bed is good for many years and can be completely no dig now.
I live in Columbus Ohio and my soil is heavy clay on top of heavy clay. We rented a 2 man auger and set our fence posts at 38-42 inches. Pure clay on top of existing clay. We never saw any roots below 12". This has been a vacant lot for 20 years. I tried the layer method on 5 30 foot gardens 4 feet wide. I had the same problems you had, so the next plot I planted cereal rye in the fall, then buckwheat I wanted to plant oats and oil radish till the freeze but we have not had enough rain for anything other then crabgrass to grow this fall. I'll start again next year. This winter I plan on tilling all of my beds just to break up that clay underneath. so my plants can have more then 6 inches of soil. Some of the oil seed radish I had planted in the layer beds refused to penetrate the clay, the roots went sideways. Love your videos and appreciate all the time you take to show us your garden.
Would mulching your compost rows help combat the issues you're having with no-dig and the drying out at the surface? I agree that you might need to till initially, but I wonder if a mulch layer (straw, hay etc) would help.
@@GrowfullywithJenna Fair enough, interesting that you use grass - I haven't found grass holds enough moisture. I think No Dig only really works the way Ruth Stout spoke about it (at a universal scale), and that's despite the fact that I really value Charles Dowding. Her approach was very much "drown weeds in mulch and you'll never have to water". Has worked well for me with the very dry summers we get in Toronto (though I do still sometimes water in very, very hot weeks).
Love the 'hybrid' method...we have lots of clay at 6-8" below surface and plants have done the 'j root' on me. So, we've tried both no-till and till to amend soils...praying for a good payoff in production this season.
I have clay soil(not as thick as you) and my biggest problem is that I don't really have to water often because my soil holds water really well. I set up raised beds and you have to water constantly because it dries out so fast! I had the same amount of weed issues too. I prefer digging the amendments into the original soil. It's the only thing that has worked decently for me. But, my budget is so low even that feels impossible. 1-2" of compost is still expensive 🙈
I agree- I like my raised beds for early season planting (when my main garden is really slow to dry out), but I much prefer planting in ground and am a bit spoiled for how little I have to water. That's one of the upsides of clay!
Compost is expensive in my area, so I'm making a new future garden area by adding wood chip mulch on top of cardboard along with grass clipping and leaf mulch. It should be good to plant in after 2 years.
I use no-dig on the same soil in Ohio. Just do an initial till to start the beds, and broadfork once a year (could be more, but I borrow my fork from a friend). Has worked great. I use hay instead of cardboard though bc I have free access to it. I do a light cultivation till, then add plenty of hay and then 3-4" of compost. Saves on compost bc of the hay, yet gives more depth. So every bed also just naturally becomes a raised bed.
You made it clear. It is good to listen to advices and see for yourself what is good for you. I also not the fan of no dig. I trust to give my soil a little bit of air and I believe it does need to breath a little rather than suffocate it with cardboards and other staff. Thanks girl for clarity.
Heavy clay soil here. Adding organic material is #1 solution but just a couple observations: Use gypsum. Our heavy clay is over saturated in Mg which makes it very sticky. Gypsum, at a molecular level, 'pushes' Mg off outer valance orbital bond and replaces it with Ca. That Can atom decrease the stickiness. Gypsum works faster than ag lime as the texture is finer plus the add'l S in gypsum is a boon for many enzymatic process in the soil biology. *Perennial* warm season grasses are great at breaking through clay and 'plowpan'. You mentioned (6:00) you still had issues even though the area had been lawn and clover for years. Mown lawn and clover have short root systems, it may be dense but it doesn't penetrate. If you can swing it, let a portion of future garden just go "feral". Don't mow it. Maybe help it along by sowing switch grass or bluestem or whatever warm season perennial grass grows in your area. After 2nd year weed whack in early autumn and let it grow again following year. Those tough, depth seeking roots 1) open channels for bacterial life/worms. 2) when you cut back the plant to ground level, the plant will then automatically 'prune' it's root system to compensate for lost photosynthesis. All those dead roots are leaving OG and plant acids which soften the clay. Good luck
I'm curious about your experience with gypsum. I've read that it really on works on sodic clay soil, which is not what I have here. Does it work in non-sodic clay as well? We're doing just what you recommend (letting the garden go 'feral') at my mom & dad's. It's fascinating to see the changes in the soil and the types of plants that want to dominate based on the soil changes. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@GrowfullywithJenna I live on old rice field on Texas Gulf Coastal Plains, about 55 miles inland. Originally this was tall grass prairie on top of low slope, slow draining vertisol soil. Between the organic matter destroying tillage in a hot, wet climate plus 'land shaping' to facilitate field levees, we naturally have clay on the surface with shallow (2-4 inch deep) 'basins' of 1-3 sq meters interspersed. They act as collection points for organic material. As noted earlier, we have very high Mg which is characteristic of "gumbo" clay. Salt is within normal to slightly elevated. It's hard to say gypsum is THE factor of softening the soil or if a combo of factors help. I will say when gypsum is surface applied in late autumn, then a year later I see an explosion of dandelion and evening primrose wildflowers. Even the hue of the primrose is very noticeable deeper. The calcium is no doubt the factor, as dandelion is a notorious sink for Ca. Conversely, wild onion/ garlic are profuse when I don't apply gypsum for a couple of years. This year I have a lot of wild onion so I know it's time to put down gypsum. It was many many years before I started applying gypsum. The health of soil is dramatically better since I started that regimen I'm lackadaisical in applying gypsum (every 3-4 years ?) but I see a noticeable difference compared to adjacent vacant land that is simply mown. I'm also stingy on applying fertilizer. I do so yearly, in early spring and in late autumn (elevated K formula) but only the most minimal amounts. Synthetic fertilizers seem to weaken grasses and the ground is droughty (probably from N burning through the organic matter). My ground holds moisture better but also drains better after heavy rain. I have that magical "sponge" soil. It can absorb a lot rain but then it can slowly release the excess that doesn't migrate deep into soil horizon. Not unusual to see slow seepage of nearly *clear* water even 3-4 days after heavy rain event. The soil and grass are filtering very well. Unfortunately, I haven't soil tested in many many years so I have no baseline or time measures of nutrient levels. Anecdotally, the soil has grown "deeper" as opposed to higher, as expected of surface organic matter deposits. The gumbo clay has softened to such a degree that is very friable for a good 6 inches. Below that, the remnants of drought caused fissures/cracks are full of soft OM rich soils that has migrated to depth. Grass roots fill those passages. I imagine the roots and biota are mining the adjacent sticky gumbo. I apply NO supplemental water, ever. Even if grass dies in large patches like 2012 drought it makes a quick and complete recovery when rains return. I believe the overall soil health speeds recovery. All gypsum/fertilizer applications are made immediately preceding rain. I know if I soil tested, I would find out what the specific "limiting factor" nutrient the soil lacks but I'm pursuing low input soil health as opposed to high input performance. Gypsum has been a big positive for me.
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What I see is that we have to assess our own soil and not to blindly copy what somebody else is doing although it works for them in their conditions. When I established new beds in my garden with a clay soil I dug the beds, added ground charcoal and horse manure on top. Then after harvest I plant green manure plants so their roots help to improve the soil quality. I've stopped buying compost as it usually contains pieces of plastics, broken glass, wires and other garbage (plus I have no control over the quality of input organic matter, meaning whether herbicides were used on it etc.). And I'm learning to make my own compost.
I love the idea of no dig, in any soil. But, to be real about getting results, in clay, not much beats French biointensive double-dug soils. A couple years of spring exercise/digging gets you many years of high yield soil.
100% with you on this. No dig zealots set up these artificial time, financial and logistical barriers that could be solved with a bit of elbow grease and a few bails of straw/wood chips, etc. And you'll have results this season!
I have the issues with my soil. My plot and the 15 areas ares around me used to be a far. We all have natural springs, mine are still active. The clay is terrible to work to in so you see a lot of raised beds. It's the only way to garden successfully. Keep up the good work Jenna. I live hearing the pros and cons of things.
Hi Jenna. I'm in an area in Canada that has a decently long growing season but my lot is positioned over a thick clay sheet many feet deep and only a few feet below ground. It's a blue clay that is so fine it was actually mined at one time to use in pottery and brick manufacturing. As a result, my so called "topsoil" is almost impenetrable. There is no way in Hell that "no dig" would work for me. Earthworms are seldom found in my soil and I suspect the soil's microbial health is very poor. I've had to go to raised beds to grow anything but recently had some success on a hillside by digging up the clay and incorporating lots of compost. (NO SAND!) The hillside location allows it to drain and by leaving a lot of clay in the mix, it doesn't dry out so fast. Each garden location has it's own special problems and I'm glad to see that someone is finally speaking out about all these "one size fits all" solutions.
I've had two farms in SE Ohio: one in rocky hill country & flat, clay, & leftover rock/cement and had to be creative in garden approaches with both trees and gardens. The present farm we live on has hidden cement patches where there used to stand barns that they took down and didn't remove it but simply pushed some debris in piles. I even had difficulty putting in poultry netting supports as they would meet very hard ground/cement, rock, clay. So I had to do container gardening on a small scale & straw bale gardening. We live in corn country so we get brutal west winds because of the miles of open fields, so growing corn is out of the question except for our rented fields which grow it just fine. The very best success I had with low growing crops was on a large, old rotting tree stump where I hilled mushroom compost/wood chip mulch on top to hold it in place. I grew sugar baby pumpkins and it did fantastic with no fertilizer. I also have success in growing in 19 gallon totes with hugelkultur principles: branches, greens, straw, leaves, old soil bottom to middle, compost on top. Hoops and frostcloth or tulle to cover and protect from insects. I grew my greens, sweet potatoes, very well. We just have to grow what will work with the land we have & find through experience how deep the soil goes before putting in more trees and fragile tall standing crops.
I would be kicked out of the no dig religion. There are a lot of fanatics in that church. The same goes with the food forrest people. When I started in my garden areas. I tilled mountains of screened wood chips and compost in the clay rather it was aged or fresh. My goal was to get loamy soil sooner than later. It has been about 12 years and I do have very good soil now. Although it didn't take that long. Maybe one year to be acceptable. People that have store bought fake garden soil can only dream of it. The Dowding method works for him because he has reliable moisture. People in drought country shouldn't do that, unless they use the compost as a mulch. I even think the Eden method should be tilled once in a while. Currently the only thing I use wood chips for is water retention until I get a strong wind storm that can scour them off, and use the fines as compost to be tilled in lightly. Always make clay a part of your soil mix in any raised bed. If you have sandy soil then find some clay. This year I may not till as much because of the fuel prices, unless I can get it done real quick with the Mantis. It pays to have several garden sections that can be planted and prepped at different times.
So glad you made this video, I have tons of hard pan with rocks I'm trying to do a mix just like you . I'm trying cover crops and some ground busting plants like turnips this will be my first year at this house so we will see how it evolves. Thank you I love your videos, it was a pleasant surprise to see someone else with these issues. I find so many garden video with people with almost no issues with their soil . It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Glad it was helpful! Sounds like you are off to a good start- clay can be challenging for sure, but actually quite nice to garden in once you've given it some TLC. Best of luck!
I appreciate the time you put into this video. I got the no dig garden book in 2006 and have been farming with a modified version of it since then for a 190 member CSA. From my experience and that of farmers and growers around the USA i believe that it can work anywhere that a tilled garden can work. If flooding is an issue, it would be either way and raised beds do better. The way i broke from Dowding's methods was that i would start new beds by just weed whacking down the sod, dumping compost, then laying drip tape and landscape fabric over top. This is a great way to wide spacing crops like cabbage, or tomatoes, or vine crops that like fresh compost like squash, sweet potato or watermelon. Then in the fall, or next spring you can take off the fabric and a pristine seedbed is waiting for you to seed or plant. I used composted (or partially composted) horse bedding for this for years and it cooks down into beautiful rich soil under the fabric. This avoids the issues with the cardboard. As far as the cost of compost, i understand that not everyone can find an ideal source, but there are many places to look including farmers who buy it wholesale, and horse farms that are often paying to have it hauled off. I can see there being some crops that may not work well the first season if you're very compacted, like carrots, but by the second season you should be good to go on anything. Check out my guy Daniel Mays info at www.frithfarm.net/. I'm at hunterhillcsa.com. happy growing!
This has been my issue as well. Especially the part where the plants stay in the top few inches then getting smothered by rain that stays on the surface for a day or two. My solution was raised beds for root vegetables and fruiting plants. For my grains and beans, I do a hybrid. Till initially while burying things like fish carcasses and manure to help add organic matter several inches down, while adding organic matter to the surface via heavy mulching and compost applications between growth. Still, drainage is, and i fear will always be, an issue for row crops so digging out deep trenches between rows is a must as well as grading the growing area. This has taken years but overall, it's working much better than no till ever did for me. And for those wondering, im in the piedmont area of south carolina where sand gives way to clay.
Glad you said this. We have this exact soil type. To do 100% no dig I would need to employ 12-18” raised beds. (Which is what I do.) You also hit the nail on the head with compost alone not retaining moisture. Currently I am playing around with: square foot raised gardening, straw bale gardening, and your make beds no dig and amend once approach.
Clay and shale here. Trying no dig and tarping. The no dig I'm trying is with lots of hay, well I'm just getting started. So I'm going to have to buy the hay. Also looking into crimping where you essentially knock down the grass, weeds and throw stuff on top. Still learning!
Great video, Jenna. I have the same issues with no-dig. It also assumes that the underlaying soil is already filled with soil life. For those of us with compacted soil, sandy soil, and soil low in organic matter, much of the soil life that no-dig depends on aren't in place. Your end message is spot on.
Thank you! Great point about that soil life- I'm lucky that even though my clay can be very challenging to work with, it typically does have good fertility and decent levels of soil microbiota. I didn't think about it from the perspective of sandy/low organic matter soil!
@@GrowfullywithJenna Yes. adding sand will only make it more drain resistant as clay will compact with sand and create a cementing. But you are right. adding organic matter to dilute the clay content will create micro ecology.
@@mastertechnician3372 that is an old wives tale. Concrete is made of aggregate, sand, and Portland cement. Clay soil plus sand can only encourage drainage. I put sand down to level my lawn, increase drainage for my brassicas, and loosen up my clay soil for my root vegetables.
That said, the actual video was spot on! I’ve been piling compost and OM on my clay. It integrates very little unless I til. That hard pan level on my property is two inches max below the surface. I’ve had that issue you spoke of with the roots hitting.
Glad I’m not the only one who came to this conclusion
@@GrowfullywithJenna
You should mulch on top of the compost, not under. That keeps it moist
Speaking of compost, not all compost is made equal. A lot of compost is sterile. A lot of it doesn't have the necessary organisms to do what you want it to do. Never buy it unless you are completely sure what is in it.
I don't know what kind of compost you have, but maybe you should learn about thermophilic compost. Searching for the berkley method is a good start
If you have the time, listening to dr elaine ingham will help a lot
Hope you the best. I can tell you're trying. Good luck
I totally agree, for many of us “organic” and “no till” are goals to work toward over YEARS, $ and time permitting. For 20+ years my garden & property has been what I proudly and affectionately call “more-ganic” and “low-till”. My suburban lot had ground that could not be penetrated with a shovel or fork, dominated by 100’ pines and some weedy grass. Quoting a wise garden center owner “It’s Time vs Money. If you don’t have Time think Money. If you don’t have Money, think Time.” When there is time, it is spent collecting and processing “free” materials like leaves from neighbors, wood ash, “bio-char”, paper grocery bags & cardboard boxes. Recently, I found a reliable source of sawdust to mix with my grass clippings to make more compost much faster. New garden areas tilled with mowed leaves & compost for a year or two, then layered with no tilling. All shrub & perennial beds are covered with cardboard or grocery bags and topped with pine needle or leaf mulch annually. There is finally about 8+ inches of beautiful dirt & happy worms in all beds. We all have to start with what we have and our climate and do the best we can with our time, money and available resources 🌿🌾🌻🌸🌦⏰
I love this so much! Thanks for sharing, Barbara!
So agree. You have to work with what you got. Best plan is always to listen to many ways and do what is going to work best for you. Getting caught up in all the shoulds and should nits prevents so many from even getting started. Heck you just got to go out there and start. Doing anything nets far better results than doing nothing. Aiming for perfect in nature is a sure fire way to make God laugh out loud.
We moved to our current property 4 years ago. The very first thing I wanted to do was to start a vegetable garden. When I dug deep to see what I was working with, I found I had 4 inches of soil on top of hard, wet clay. I ended up borrowing a back hoe from a friend and dug trenches and laid down drainage pipe. I used to have standing water after an inch of rain. No more. I then had to build the soil up because it wasn't deep and fertile enough. After 3 years of building up the soil, I finally planted last year. Worked out fine. This year I'm behind by about 2 weeks because we have had over 5 inches of rain since March 1st. I've had 2 hip replacements, back surgery and pins put in several fingers and I'm gardening like I am still a kid. My plot is only 31 feet by 15 feet, but I do alot of vertical growing due to lack of yard space. My garden is surrounded by lavender and strategically planted with other annuals and perennials. I also have a bee hive and the lavender honey is outstanding. Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge with us and good luck this growing season.
Wow!! You really took a thorough approach to starting your new garden- that's impressive. Also- how lovely it sounds, especially with having lavender and other flowering plants. Do you have a secret for growing lavender successfully with clay soil- or is it just because you spent so much time improving the soil? That's one plant I have a hard time growing and I just love it!
@@GrowfullywithJenna I have had about a 75% germination rate with my lavender seeds, starting them indoors under grow lights in just Ocean Forrest potting soil. They grow very slowly for the first few months. I created a raised bed around my entire garden and filled it with a mixture of compost, sand and pea pebbles (50%/25%/25%) to try to recreate what they might be growing in in the Mediterranean. The entire garden gets very little shading. I rarely water the lavender unless it has been unusually dry. I purchased seed from Park Seed and Baker Creek. The Park Seed had the higher germination rate. I did not stratify the seed before planting. I tried that the year before and failed miserably. I currently have 48 lavender plants around the vegetable garden. It's a sea of purple filling every inch around the entire edge of the garden. I also have 20,000 bees that seem to enjoy it, too. No pollination issues with squash anymore.
@@matthewkurt2246 thank you for all the detail!!
Wow-God bless you!
@Doug Anderson since I was first able to plant my vegetable garden, I have not dug since. Best, healthiest vegetable garden I have ever had.
This is so encouraging. Many times the no-dig approach is spoken of as if it’s easy to haul materials from so many other places which isn’t always possible. Sometimes you just need to work with what you have, period.
You are spot on, Nathalie! Sometime we do just need to work with what we have AND we can often find a way to make the best of it!
Thats why I've never understood the hype about to no-dig approach. I mean, of course I will have good results when I dump a ton of perfect soil or compost in one place and plant my plants there. I could do the same with my existing garden bed, buy a ton of high quality soil and put it on top of it. I like to work with what I have on hand and improve the soil every year by mixing the existing soil with own compost, forganic fertilizer, leafmulch, grass clippings, etc.
Max Moritz you miss the point though you'd be building more soil fertility every year if you didn't destroy the fungal networks and ruin the soil structure by tilling. All the minerals and nutrients already in the soil are harder to access when its back to square one each year, if the fungal networks and old root networks are maintained the new plants can be plugged into this system and have access to a way bigger area of soil.
All the new compost goes on top each year and the new plants send roots into this layer to feed so there's no need to till anything in anyway
p@@ottoflouer1750 yep I was going to say basically the same thing and the first application of compost is the only time you need 6 inch after that you can get away an inch or so once a year
You have just given the best advice, use the method that is most suitable for the soil that you have and the veges that you are growing!
And it's going to be a little different for everyone 😀!
yep, just because something works in Denmark or the UK or Argentina ...it may not work in Iowa, Manitoba or Florida. As you said, suitable for the soil you have
Jenna, please continue taking your sensible stand on the matter. You’re just being a very sensible person. I have watched Charles’s programs for a long time, good on him that it worked where he gardens for years. We’re all in different countries and have very different soils, climate, etc. I have rocks underneath my clay soils! I had to break the rocks to get a decent depth of soil to grow anything. The winds I have would blow away any compost if I drop them like Charles did to his plots, he’s in the UK for goodness sake. I have to dig in my compost or I lose them soon enough. Jenna, as they say, I dig what you’re doing, period! Love your sensible presentation!
Thank you, Jacob! I do try to be a sensible person most of the time 😄.
Sounds like you've got some challenging growing conditions- but I'm glad you are finding ways to work with what you've got!
yep I'm right there with you!
I have been a gardener in Ohio for years, I do mostly in ground. I have always done a deep till every spring, mainly because that’s how I was taught by my dad, until 2 years now I,m only do a light till when needed. It’s working out nicely adding organic matter and cover crop in the fall, fresh organic matter in the spring before planting. The worm population is growing rapidly! I’m pleased with the results so far, it makes a huge difference when your gardening in ground verses raised beds, using the no till method. it doesn’t have to be complicated, just what works best for you!!
I'm so glad to hear this is working for you and that your worm population is growing!
You're right- it doesn't have to be complicated. I think we as humans always tend to want to overcomplicate things! Thanks for sharing.
David and Lauren
Next you will notice spiders but remember they are after planteaters.
Hi Jenna, a very sensible & balanced look at ‘No Till.’ I’ve come to realize that No Till is to be seen more as a goal than a hard & fast methodology. Especially in a new garden. Once you reach it you’ll know it.
Interestingly, there is a fantastic tool known as a Broadfork. They are simple, but expensive due to a lot of good steel & blacksmithing skills required. I thought it was way too expensive for me. Then my brother gifted me one. Boy did my opinion change!
Broad forking is actually considered ‘no till.’ A broadfork is basically a wide, heavy fork with two strong handles, one on each side. You start the tines into the soil, then stand on the fork bar, using your body’s weight & wiggle/rocking to sink it completely down to the bar. Then you step back & pivot the handles down, which cracks open the soil. Fill the cracks with compost/alfalfa pellets/leaves/manure/organics. Step back 8-12” and repeat until your plot is all loosened. This works best on moist, NOT soggy clay/earth. So wet your hard pan days before using this fork. Any time of year is good to use a broadfork, fall is the best time if the organic material still needs to break down a bit (hot manure/grain pellets). In spring, compost can go right in. You’re also getting air into the soil, always a good thing. Broadforking does not cause an explosion of weed growth like roto-tilling does. It’s kinda fun & a little workout.
There are very good videos on You Tube about this. If you’d like to “try-before-you-buy,” find your county/parish extension agent and ask them if they have a “demonstration farm.” Every one of the farms I’ve been to use the broadfork. If you agents are friendly, they might let you put a refundable deposit down to borrow for an afternoon. If they’re not that friendly, you could ask them if they have an area that needs forking that you could try it on. Or maybe just let you fork a few times somewhere. It’s good to make friends with extension agents & demonstration farmers. The whole reason for them to exist is helping us grow things better.
The wider the fork, the more weight is required to operate. It’s important that the tines are not round rods, but made from steel bars for strength. Sort of like a large version of the guard that slips over hair clippers. Try Craigslist or Amazon, make sure to read the reviews and pay attention to durability issues.
You’ve mentioned that you admire your hardworking worms for doing a lot of the work for you; might I suggest that you employ other hard workers from the Plant Kingdom?
It’s new to me, but I’ve read many favorable things about green manures in general, and Fava, buckwheat & comfrey specifically. This year I’m planting Fava & buckwheat cover crops. Interestingly, the fresh new leaves of Fava are also nutritious and edible in salads & soups. If your winters don’t freeze your soil rock hard, you can plant them (6” spacing) in the fall & they’ll come up & grow over winter. They send roots down through the hard pan. When you harvest, use a hoe to cut off the plants so the roots stay in place to rot & breakdown. You’ve just increased your soils organic matter & left tunnels just like the worms. There are nitrogen nodules among the roots that will breakdown & fertilize your beds. According to Dr. H. Lector, Fava’s are exquisite when paired with a nice Chianti. If you don’t like ‘em, compost ‘em before they set fruit. If you like what they do to your hard pan, you could have a Fava patch that moves to a different location every year.
Oddly, they’re expensive to buy as garden seeds, unless you find a bag of Fava cover crop seeds. I found them at nuts-dot-com by the pound, reasonably priced.
Buckwheat’s another nitrogen fixer to look into. Comfrey is the ultimate sod-buster but a little hard to find. The best comfrey is Russian #14. Wild comfrey spreads like crazy if you let it go to seed, but #14 generates sterile seeds that don’t grow; like rhubarb it is propagated via root cuttings. I’m still waiting to find comfrey starts.
Might be enough for a follow-on video.
I have the same issues here. I have to rip the compacted soil first and then start my no dig garden after that. The soil needs aeration for it to actually build microbial life in it. Just a rip to start, then there is no digging after that. Those nutrients need to get to the soil below to get it all going. I enjoyed the video. 👍
I think you'll see excellent results in the long run with this approach!
Very Encouraging to see a woman so enthusiastic, diligent and intelligent about gardening.
Thank you for this video. After almost 20 years I have my soil much better than the clay I started with. I have adapted to a mix of raised beds and raised rows. (pretty much like yours) except it took several years of tilling in organic mater and double digging to create them. Now that it is established I just dig a trench down the middle and add composted manure and amendments than cover it back up. I use cardboard and woven weed fabric to control weeds. No mulch because of my Virginia creeper problem. Mulch just makes it easier for the stuff to sneak in and get established before I know it's there. So many people read a book and become militant about one method or another and think it is the best and only way. Every garden has it's own challenges and one size does not fit all.
Sounds like you have an awesome technique going on- and more importantly, one that works well for you! Thank you for sharing your experience, Kristin!
Great video, so refreshing to hear a balanced point of view in a world filled with no dig repetition enthusiasts. We have to use a variety of methods here also. You make a great point about the sheer volume of compost required for a no dig bed which very few no dig promoters ever mention.
Thank you!
This is literally so comforting, we bought our house last year, and about half of the yard has been gardened and has decent soil, but the rest is basically just hardpan, there's barely even any topsoil. I do want to dig as little as possible, but it just seemed like it didn't make sense to not dig at all when there's no apparent life in the soil since it's just red clay. So yes, this makes me feel like my instincts are maybe on the right track, so thank you for this!
I'm so glad! And definitely follow your instincts- I feel like many folks don't give their 'gut' feelings enough credit. As you grow and learn with your garden, you are the one who knows that soil better than anyone else. Best of luck!
A few more solutions would be helpful. Some helpful ones I think should be included.
1. A french drain is simple to install and ensures excess water is directed away
2. Cover crop plants with deep tap roots penetrate clay soil. Those roots eventually break down and create humus. Comfrey is a self seeding perennial that dives into clay soil up to 3 meters!
I absolutely love your presentation. Turning clay soil with adding and mixing with compost and topping soil to reduce the clay cementing is a brilliant Idea.
Thank you.
Nice to finally hear someone acknowledge the cost of what a lot of YT home gardening presenters recommend. I see some channels applying soil from 20 litre plastic bags and wonder how they afford it. A 20 litre bag of soil goes for between $5-$15 depending on quality and just one of our raised garden beds would need at least 6. The ground beds are 90 feet long and about 4 feet wide so you are talking thousands of dollars. Same with buying compost or mulch.
We garden with a make do attitude and buy almost nothing. Lawn clippings are used for mulch, and yes you have more seed and therefore more weed come up using lawn clippings instead of clean straw, but guess what, it is a free by product. Soil improvement (base is red clay) has to be a slow process. Whatever we can compost from kitchen and around the yard gets used but once it is all used we have to wait till nature sends more.
The idea of gardening was to know what went into our food and save money. I find it hard to imagine most people are saving money if they are spending so much at the nursery. Mostly we don't even buy seeds because we collect our own for resowing.
We also have drainage issues with our clay. When we dig a hole to plant a tree the hole usually fills 1/3 with water. Unless it is summer. Then you need a jackhammer to dig a hole.
I also try to make due, and my constant goal is self sustainability. I'd like to get to the point where I'm not relying on stores for any of my supplies. It sounds like you are nearly there-- that's awesome! I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea, but I just wanted to present an alternative view!
In my younger years, I was all about digging. Now that I'm......cough cough......MATURE, I do no dig. I have awful clay, but have managed to make a smallish garden by just piling up manure, grass clippings, and leaves. It's not fantastic like my old garden in Michigan (I'm now in Illinois), but it's enough to grow what we need.
I'm glad you've got a garden space that's working for you, Susan!
I have very clay soil and no dig has been amazing for us. HOWEVER, we DID have to initially buy/bring in a bunch of compost to start with. Now though, it’s easier and only a little is needed. I never tilled the land beforehand either.
Glad to hear it!
What was your initial amendment strategy that worked?
I have about three inches of top soil going to sandy clay to hard pack clay eventually hitting wet sand at 5 feet. I tried tilling the top 6 inches last year but everything just sat inside a poorly draining “clay pot.” This year I’m giving up on tilling and going to run an earth auger down the full 5 feet for each tree and shrub. Then I’ll fill with 50/50 compost/native soil. Inoculate with microrrhizea. Then top dress everything with mulch.
See any problems there?
@@TheChupacabra if you are having issues with drainage, it may be beneficial to mound your shrubs and trees. It will at least make the roots less likely to sit in standing water. I live in Canada and my soil is hard brown clay and this has worked for me. (I also dug my holes like 6 feet across and 4-6 ft deep). Was a lot of work but at least my plum trees aren't drowning now
Hi Jenna, here in Sydney i generally have a clay sub base soil in my area. While I generally follow the principles of no dig, I agree that you sometime have to adjust your style to suit your area. Cheers
Hi Keith- I'm glad you've found a style that works well for you!
My problem with no-dig is this. I am 80 yrs old and have COPD. We are moving next week and the new yard has never been gardened. It is in zone 6b and the soil seems to be mostly clay. I may not be able to garden for too long due to my age and health so may not have 3 or more years to get no-dig to work. I will till as deep as I can, add compost and wheat strow to work into the existing soil. I hope to get a fairly good garden if not this year then next. I believe the concept is good but for you and me with hard clay, not so much. I am a new sub and really appreciate your vlogs. Havagudun Jenna and God Bless. Keep em coming!
The straw bales did work really well for some things: ua-cam.com/video/JswiXDwOTiY/v-deo.html
@E.D. Law- that sounds like a great approach! I hope that you remain in good health and are able to thoroughly enjoy that new garden. Take care!
I'm glad you did this video. I've been trying somewhat unsuccessfully to do no dig beds on my property for several years. Now I think I may have issues with drainage underneath my beds. I'm going to look into this further. Thank you.
I hope this helps get at the root of the problem, William! Best of luck!
Same situation here in my Northern California garden with our native hard pan Adobe clay. Couple that with our drought like conditions for most of the year, and it becomes a recipe for disaster if you think that no dig method will work, especially if you're trying to get a garden going in one or two seasons. I have resorted to digging deep holes and planting in them. Every year I layer compost and mulch on my beds. Eventually now after about 4 years the holes that I am digging are starting to connect, and the earthworms are moving between them, and creating some pretty amazing soil. So yes I dig, but just the holes that I want to plant in. That's what works for me. Thanks for a great video.
Thanks for sharing what has worked so far for you! Drought and hard pan clay is a massively challenging situation for sure!
I’m on year three of gardening in heavy clay soil. After the first year we covered w/ a layer of straw & manure, let it over-winter, and tilled under in the spring - it made a huge difference!! This year, tilled under the dead plants from last year’s garden. Have to use a cultivator to break up the soil when it’s time to plant also.
This year using cardboard & weed fabric on walkways, plus straw (once I can source it) and starting a compost pile. Will weed and then compost around plants this year & hopefully next year, planning to not till at all, as the planting spaces will not have been walked on at all.
Excellent! I'm so glad to hear you're seeing big differences in your soil!
Angi: That's a smart move on your part. Not walking on the soil in the planting area is key!
Very well said. I used tillage to start my garden because of clay and then switched to a broad for after year one. I’ve had nothing but positive results but could not have done it without tillage. I’ve tried to talk with newbie no-till people because that model only works with optimal soil conditions. Layering of soil can be just as damaging. After all we are humans and only live so long. We can’t wait too long for mother nature.
I’m glad to hear you’ve seen positive results!!
Well said!
I think my situation is similar to yours, but with more rain. I have pretty heavy clay soil with a lot of rock in it, and a very high water table. Actually, I'm in a flood zone.
My first two years I did till and had awful results. The soil would harden on top in between rains. Plants drowned in water that sat there, not soaking in, when rain came. So I dug pathways lower than ground level and piled that soil on top of the beds, then have slowly added cardboard, compost, fallen leaves etc to build the beds even more. That solved a lot of the issues. Now every year, things get better.
Then last year I added some new beds on top of untilled grass. I did a cardboard layer, then compost, then grass clippings as mulch. Those beds did very well, but not necessarily better or worse than any of my other beds.
I'm glad that you've been able to find methods that work- even in a flood zone! I appreciate you sharing your experience!
Wow. My eyes are finally opened... This is exactly what our whole property is, clay and hardpan. Water doesn't sink into the ground, we just have massive run-off. Suggestions on how to deal with our 4 acres of hardpan and clay? I was wondering why a few years ago we lost all our corn to a wind storm. Now I know. The roots couldn't get through the clay and hardpan. We have dug and put drainage pipes underground with still no success. Thank you for opening my eyes.
I'm so sorry to hear you are dealing with this, Laurie.
This is what I do to improve my clay: ua-cam.com/video/QS7qQVOzK7g/v-deo.html
But I tackle it one bed at a time- on a scale of 4 full acres you might consider running through with a sub-soiler first, followed by cover crops/organic amendments etc. If you have sodic clay, gypsum supposedly can be a helpful amendment. Some one here mentioned green sand, which again, depending on the type of clay you have, might be something to look into. Biochar could be yet another amendment option.
A friend in Ohio has successfully used daikon radishes to breakup his hard clay soil. What you do is plant them but never harvest them, let them rot in the ground. Of course you lose the time in that area as you do it, but it's something to think of.
@@Javaman92 I will surely give this a try this season. Thank you so much
@@GrowfullywithJenna Thank you very much.
I learned about "double dig" garden bed prep and am trying that as I'm gardening for the first time this year. Very glad I did it, as I discovered similar soil to yours. Fingers crossed that aerating the soil this way + compost will give me a successful first year!
My dad had great results with the double dig technique- but it's definitely a lot of work- especially in clay! I do think it helps in the long run. Best of luck!
@@GrowfullywithJenna your right that would be a bit of work in clay, but it will be worth it.
Our experience trying this in clay is that it is a) really really heavy to move, and b) you have to be very careful not to make it worse if the ground is too wet or too dry. Like so much else, it works better if you've already got good gardening soil!
That's how l learned. Double digging. And it's hard but the amount of produce you get like that, is awesome. Besides the harder you work for something the better you appreciate it.
As a no dig gardener I find your video really good. I believe Charles Dowding has clay soil but maybe not with the underlying soil you have. I am sticking to no dig for several reasons.
I like the fact it doesn’t disturb the microbes in the soil or release carbon. Also as a disabled person who can’t dig this is the only way I can grow my own food. I can roll over the ground, which is fine on compost but not on soil.
It is difficult sourcing enough compost to start but I have friends and neighbours giving me all their compostable waste so I’ll soon be making plenty and it’s only the start when you need loads.
I appreciate this may not work for everyone such as yourself, well done for giving it a go. If you message Charles he is really helpful at answering questions.
Good luck with your growing from zone 8 UK x
I'm very glad to hear it's working for you!
Interesting to hear an alternative view. I’m no dig in the UK and a huge fan of it after also being more traditional in the past. We are on heavy clay soil at an allotment. I’ve seen huge benefits in reducing watering needs, less but still weeds and better produce. We are lucky that we can get cow manure very cheap so I don’t have the expense problems you have. In my experience you don’t need 6 inches to start. 3 inches is fine on our soil. That may be because the allotment has been worked for a long time.
Our allotments have seen a huge increase in the number of people using no dig so I would say it works here very well.
I'm glad to hear no dig is working well for you, James! Thanks for sharing!
Here is the deep south, we have a year round growing season, particularly for weeds. Also, the clay layer starts at just a few inches below the surface of the soil. I think a no-till or no-dig method would be difficult here, particularly with the viney weeds we have that sink new roots from the vines as they grow across the ground, centipede grass for example. Soil compaction can be another issue too. What I do is to grow a winter cover crop, usually Crimson clover (which is also a legume), then mulch it with the lawnmower and till it into the topsoil. Much of the new organic material remains on top of the soil, which helps with weed control for the first month or so after tilling. Then it's back to mowing between rows...
Ugh... yes, some of those creeping or rhizomatous weeds are a bear to deal with!
I've always been envious of folks with longer or year round growing seasons, but didn't think about the weeds growing year round too! But, I'm glad you've found a technique to deal with it.
I am 0% no dig. I've been some of everything through the years, and the one consistent outcome with all the alternative forms of farming was lack of quantity and quality of harvest. Three years ago, I decided to use my compost as fertilizer only and went back to old-time farming, and my harvests more than quadrupled! I call it farming because it is now much to large to be a garden. It's pushing 1/2-acre of crops, and the soil is a near ideal loam.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Northeast Indiana here. You laid out our problems with this method and Back to Eden. Nightmares and flooded plants for the last two years, we can't afford another bad year so we are going back to a hybrid of soil building and traditional methods.
Sorry to hear this! I do hope this year is better!
Thanks for this video and talking about cost. In the gardening world, I think that we let perfection be the enemy of progress, and we forget about accessibility. Definitely, minimal soil disturbance is great, but instead of no till, we should call it low till.
In Los Angeles, the soil is rather dense. Its like clay loamy soil. No till can work here, but it requires some level of up front investment of time and money and that just isn't super accessible
Well said, Anthony!
I hate to see cost get in the way of anyone's desire to garden, and I absolutely agree- we tend to let perfection be the enemy of progress. It doesn't need to be that way.
Take care!
Here in central west Texas, Abilene, TX. My property without any top soil…a lot of shale rocks, compacted clay, hard pan,, no worms, NO rain. I killed off grass and weeds with 6 layers of heavy cardboard boxes from mattresses store. I tried adding potting soil and peat, on top and covered for a year, no good. Then tilled in aged chicken manure and rabbit manure, wow what a difference with my irrigation going, finally loads of worms! My soil finally able to grow something!.😊
I’m glad to hear it!
I have clay soil so I put in raised beds. My tomato plants keep acting root bound, and now I know why! Thank you for this video! I will have to experiment with "dig" and "no dig" combinations.
You are welcome!
No dig has its benefits under certain conditions. Clay soil doesn't seem to be one of them. And its application is useful under certain circumstances. If your garden is more or less a hobby, then you have all the time in the world to amend the soil. If you are producing food for your family; the expense, time, and effort might not be worth it in the long run--especially in clay soil.
I'm glad you made a video that addresses these issues. There are pros and cons to any endeavor, and it is best to account for them before sinking a lot of time and money into a project. Thank you!
I am a relatively new gardener. Strictly no dig last year (first growing season on new beds on heavy clay) and had very good results. This year I have forked most of the beds to try and aerate and loosen a bit more of the clay. Making tons of home made compost. We have become a literal factory of hot composting. I think home made compost rather than purchased is much richer in biological activity..... just my suspicion..... plus it is free. I whole heartedly agree that mixing techniques to match your conditions is a good approach. Love that you fly the flag for Charles Dowding. He is a huge resource and a good inspiration.... as are you. Cheers!!! Great vid!!
I have the same suspicion about the compost, Steve! Glad to hear the no dig is going well for you and glad to hear you've plenty of home made compost- that's awesome!
Your suspicion is completely right. I've talked to someone working at the municipal waste management here and she has confirmed that their industrial composter is specifically designed to self-heat up to 60°C to kill off certain earth-bound pathogenes like anthrax, weeds and other pests, but also much of everything else.
Your homemade compost will contain worms, arthopods and a greater diversity of bacteria.
Very well said!! We got a bit attached to the idea of deep mulching a few years back, and tried really hard to make it work like everyone said it would. But for us, it just became a home for voles that decimated the rest of the garden, so I had to give up on that idea. Same with the cardboard mulch. It made such a good vole home, I stopped using the cardboard sheet mulch around the annual vegetable beds. I now have a hybrid style like you, which I’m happy with. 🙂
Oooh... the voles!! Major issues with them here too- I didn't even think to bring that up!
But I'm glad you've found a style that works well for you!
Trees in my front yard i planted several years ago died from hardpan clay. I had no idea until this year. Thanks! I planted muskadines, a peach tree and two plum trees in large half barrel pots above the clay. Their roots grew out the bottom and into the topsoil over two years aerating the soil below and are thriving. It didn’t dawn on me about the front yard 🙄 I left the pots so the chickens don’t scratch up the bases.
Scotland here, also with clay. I'm opting to dig the beds by hand once as I establish them, digging in loads of manure as I go, and then aiming for just a top-dressing of compost in subsequent years. The beds I dug over last year are so much nicer to work with already. They have a friable top layer that can be raked and drilled, and plenty of worms, which I'm taking as a good sign. I'll probably re-dig occasionally for potatoes, but I'm hoping that with a fork by hand it's at least not as bad as pulverising it with the rotovator. Another plus for digging them over to start with is to remove a lot of stones and rocks.
I'm so glad to hear you're seeing such good results in your beds! Thanks for sharing your technique!
Here in central Louisiana, I have alot of clay. I add 12" or more of wood chips/leaves on top and I will till this into the clay to help it. I also do alot of cover crops on unused plots It has helped out alot to make my soil. I do have to compensate by adding some nitrogen, but I have tested all of my plots and everthing is high or very high . My organic matter is above 5.5. Every year my soil gets better and better. This is what works for me. It s a marathon and not a 100 yard dash to improve the soil. Patience is needed.
Sounds like an excellent approach- thank you for sharing!
I'm also in Central Louisiana and only have about 2 inches of topsoil before hitting dense clay. This is my first year doing an in-ground bed, which I did till and amend with a couple yards of garden soil I purchased. A family member told me about John and Bob's soil treatments and I am trying the whole clay soil kit out right now. I would love to see someone do a video on these products, especially the Penetrate for helping soil drain.
Great information. I agree “no dig” is not everything. I think we have to respect that our ancestors actually grew great gardens and relied on their gardens to stay alive. I started my garden 13 years ago with very poor soil and have deep tilled and produced and added compost. I believe any soil can be improved but it takes time. Too many people get into a fad and get discouraged when it doesn’t doesn’t work immediately. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much- and I appreciate you sharing your method!
I've had similar issues on very rocky sandy soil. The only way to really make it work is to dig the beds over, remove the rocks, mix in a lot of amendments, firm it back down and then doing no-dig on top of that works great from then on.
I'm glad you've found a method that works well for you! Dealing with extremely rocky soil is a major challenge!
I don't like how carefully you hate to iterate your last point with such a solid well-reasoned and constructed video, the no-dig-dogma must be insanely strong. This was great and really informative!
It certainly seems to be- I'm a little surprised by just how defensive some folks got in the comments here! I'm glad you appreciated the video!
I'm in zone 5 in Northwest Indiana and also have this kind of clay soil. As a beginner gardener, this was super helpful! I have started out with a few small no-dig gardens, but will be experimenting more with tilling. Subscribed!
I’m glad it was helpful!
i feel you. hard pan and clay soil land owner here. fabric pots and fabric raised beds on top of pallets is my solution
Thanks for sharing your solution!
Great video! Love how you troubleshoot and adapt to your specific environment and it’s challenges. Thanks!
Hi Jenna,
Compliments on your outfit! Looks really professional! You asked for a comment on clay: Setting up the patch I dig down to the clay, approximately a foot down, and mix it in with well rotten, 2-3 years, manure. Last year I topped it with bought compost. This year I put some rough coco coir with quite big chunks in it, mixed with perlite. I saw a French professional gardener doing the perlite in the patch, so I gave it a try as a topping. My view is how the mix will do in the long run, and of course, it has to be usable this very season, at least agreeable for the plants put in it. The patches that have been there for a while, three-four years, is way above ground level, up to two feet, and is doing fine. I never till or turn it around, just leave it and it will till itself - for exampel you harvesting the potatoes or put in or taking out some sticks for the verticals. At last, the water: How about digging in a drench pipe?! Farmers have done that the last hundred years to really improve the productivity. It leads the water away from your patch.
Thank you!
And I appreciate you sharing your experience!
Let all your grass and clover grow without cutting it and stop watering it. This will do two things; cause your grass to grow a deeper root system, and give you all the organic matter you need for a productive garden. You can also add things like mallow, mustard, dikon, and burdok to break up that hard pan. Let them grow for a season and chop the tops off and the roots will decay to become organic material much deeper than you can till. The spaces left by the decaying roots will add the aeration you lack.
Spot on! I do something similar to this in some areas- but honestly I get so much use out of grass clippings as garden mulch that I will always mow & collect some of the lawn. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve been gardening In my backyard for about 40 years, so I’m not starting from scratch! I used to turn everything over in the spring, but for several years I gave been following the no-till regimen and also mulching my vegetable beds with shredded leaves collected in the fall. I can’t say that the outcome is significantly better, but I’m certainly digging less, weeding less, and watering less. The Nova Scotia climate is harsher than that in southern England, so I can’t follow Charles Dowding to the letter, but I’ve certainly learned from him. I also follow other gardening UA-camrs who live near me, and that helps.
I make my own compost from kitchen scraps, yard waste, and leaves. It never gets hot but always has worms, even in the dead of winter.
We get a fair amount of rain and I collect it in rain barrels. I hand water my small garden when necessary, and rarely use tap water.
Thanks for sharing your experience- it's great to hear from a seasoned gardener!
Very well laid out commentary which makes sense. I have somewhat sidestepped the whole issue as some of its proponents seem a bit - well, bordering on evangelical. My soil is sandy loam so I am not faced with much other than pockets of clay, and I am not about to raise a garden big enough to feed the neighborhood - flowers are more my objective. Thanks for taking the time to lay out the issues as you have faced them (including very practical ones!)
Thank you! I have to admit, I'm a bit jealous of your sandy-loam... though I'm sure it has its own unique challenges. Take care!
Thanks for this video! gardening can be so much fun there’s more than one way of doing something. I encourage people to just dig in , plant some Veg & seeds, try different things. 😊
Hybrid works the best for me when gardening in clay, as you described. A generous application of green sand around the planting spaces seems to help as well. It absorbs water and expands helping to crack up the soil. It also adds needed minerals. I've mostly planted things like echinacea's, irises, lilies and they've all done well.
Ooh- thank you for mentioning the green sand, Susan. That is something I want to try. I plan to do a test of soil amendments specifically for clay soil this year!
Yes, I too had great success with using greensand years ago! I tracked down some gypsum last year to try it also. I thought it would be easy to find and somewhat inexpensive.
I have never heard of green sand, what is it?
@@GrowfullywithJenna What is green sand?
Agreed. I’ve found that Dowding’s no-dig with broadforking and mulching works for me.
I also live in Ohio and have very similar soil - thick, heavy clay. I’m trying to do one round of tillage in the fall, followed by a winter terminated cover crop, then no till/dig from spring to fall. I’m only just starting to plant after the first winter of cover crops. I am struggling to get germination on my direct seeded plants so far this spring. I did not elevate my rows, but will likely try that this fall when I till again.
That sounds like a great plan, Laura!
I will say, elevating my rows has been a BIG help in my garden- I think you'll be happy if you try it!
I refer you to Paul Gautchi. He's on youtube.
I love compost and never can get enough of it. And that's the Achilles heel of no till - compost. If you can't get it, trust the quality or justify the cost, you have to find other ways. A garden can't generate enough of it's own compost - you need to find offsite sources. Cover crops are great but if you only have one season to grow it, you need to rotate your crops which requires much more space. I'm on board with your hybrid approach.
We came to the very same conclusions (failures) with no-dig and Back to Eden gardening. Even with raised beds, we had fire ants taking over the corners of every single bed, even those planted with mint. We have actually gone back to tilling and forming raised rows without walls/borders. The bottom line is that however popular and beneficial a method might be if I can't produce food for my family and it becomes so frustrating that we hate gardening, then we have missed the main reasons that we do this. I would love nothing more than for BTE, Lasagna, No-dig, or other methods to have worked, but they created way more work, with less food and my family was no longer willing to garden.
I could not have said this better myself! I'm sorry that you had to go through that frustration, but I'm glad you've settled on a method that works for you and your family!
Nice way to explain your lazy.
So right, for heavy clay soil dig in some manure or compost for the first year or so then start the no dig when the soil is looking better !👍
Great video Jenna. I use semi no dig as well. Clay soils here too so I do agitate my in ground beds then compost & raised beds just add compost.
Thanks, Kittie! Sounds like you've got a good method going on there!
Great advice Jenna ,what works for one may not work for another do what works for you take good general care of soil and plants and you will have success.
Absolutely!
Love your practical informative style! It is so refreshing to hear the good and bad of a particular method. We just cleared land to build a barn greenhouses orchard and garden but now we have an exposed hard clay field. We planted rye grass as a stop gap. Suggestions for next steps?
I generally just try to add all the organic matter I can- composted wood chips are awesome (or dump a layer of fresh woods chips on top, if you can wait a year or two for them to breakdown), I'm a big fan of manure (cow, horse, chicken...)- again- composted if you're planting soon, fresh if you can wait a while before planting- (also, make sure the animals haven't been given any feed treated with persistent herbicides), compost, leaf mold... etc. I also continue to use cover crops between my vegetable crop plantings. Some folks claim gypsum has helped their clay, but I'm not tried it yet and have heard it really only works for sodic clay. Not sure if you've watched it yet, but this video covers how I improve my clay soil: ua-cam.com/video/QS7qQVOzK7g/v-deo.html
Great video. Often you have to dig, before no dig / no till. Ruth Stout had a plow man for years until she 'asked' the asparagus why she didn't have to dig for him....and then turned to straw. Paul Gautschi (Back to Eden) tilled for years before he turned to compost and wood chips.
I inherited 'parking lot soil'. Only after repeated tilling and tilling in green manure cover crops could I begin to think about no dig /no till. I still have the Troybilt tiller but only till 1-2" to prepare seed beds (of 3' raised mounds).Covering the beds from fall to spring with landscape fabric and lots of shredded leaf mulch during the growing season to suppress weeds and enrich soil, ALONG with as much compost as I can make! 🙂
Great explanation. I agree. Though I have two 5 foot by 50 foot raised beds that I use nothing but no dig in and they produce tons of food, I also have a couple traditional garden spaces that I still grow cover crops and till.
We are clay soil too here in East Texas. To start the no digs I did however use a fork a couple times a year to just crack the soil. I don’t need to do that any longer.
One size does not fit.
Thanks for sharing what is working for you- I love that you used a mix of techniques!
Your hit the nail on the head Jenna, no one shoe fits all and everyone should take your advice and try different ways of gardening. That's what makes it fun to me is trying new things. Love your insight on things.
Yes!! It's one big experiment and that's part of the fun!
I have clay with hardpan underneath, and I start out with a double dig 1st. This makes for tremendous results but extremely hard work. Once you do a double dig then you can do a lot less work to maintain the bed.
Tiny suburban gardener here. We built four 4' x 4' x 4" raised beds but we dug out about 6" of clay & rock before filling with a mix of topsoil & potting soil. We've been amending that soil every year with a meager amount of compost I've been able to produce + purchased topsoil + fertilizer.
I'm 'no dig' now, but when I initially put my beds in, I tilled - once. I wanted to use my beds that same season and needed to break the sod and blend what was there with purchased compost. I only amend the beds now and they are in great shape and full of life. I am not opposed to tilling if it's not frequently repeated. Sometimes tilling needs to happen when circumstances make sense.
I absolutely agree, Linda. And I'm so glad to hear your beds are in great shape and full of life- that's awesome!
I'm in Ohio and also have clay soil. Your channel is helping me so much. Thank you!
I'm so glad to hear that, Karen! Thank you!
I've found burying sticks and other biological materials in my hard clay has done amazing things for revitalizing my soil. The difference between where I've done it and haven't is huge!
Yes! Similarly, hügelkultur has worked really well for me here ua-cam.com/video/u8SWtuhL3so/v-deo.html
I do this with small mesquite branches. Mesquite fixes nitrogen too. My clay is so expansive that added sand was critical.
finally someone talked about No Till disadvantages 😁😉
😀
In my experience and from the veggie farmer online formations I keep watching, there are only two ways to be no dig in heavy clay. The first one is to dig a last time, on about 20-30 cm of soil, and then put a ton of wood chips over that. Like 20 cm of wood chips, boom. And then you wait. You will have massive nitrogen depletion the first year or two, but after two years, when you worm population has been multiplied by 100 (it's times 10 every year), your soil should be fine. It's what farmers do. The other way, the nicer way, is to use winter cover crop. I do this in my garden. I put rye, vetch, phacelia, fava beans and winter pea in October, squash it down with a pallet in May when it flowers (important to wait until it flowers so it's done its job), then I put wood chips or spent barley + wood chips over it. It's ready to plant in two weeks later. On beds where I couldn't sow a cover crop, and where there's just wood chips, it usually compacts over winter, and I need to dig it before planting in Spring. This is the only time I use digging. I've compared the dig and no dig cover crop methods : they produce the same. So no dig works. But since it's a lot of work to sow cover crops, about half my beds I Have to dig. And during the season, everything is mulched, except the small seeds like carrots that I have to sow on a layer of mature compost. I'm hoping that by mulching everything and rotating the beds I do cover crops on, I will have enough worms that I don't necessarily have to do cover crops all the time and that mulch will be enough... I'd still do cover crops though coz they're so pretty and harbor a ton of insects. I've had fails with no dig in the first year because I didn't dig it one last time. For example, I did the "potato under mulch" method, when I just put potatoes on the ground, a layer of compost, and a layer of wood chips. The potatoes never rooted in the soil, so it was a poor harvest. Now I dig one last time if needed, and I always make sure to plant the potato in my clay soil, not just on top.
At my dad's he has done the wood chips and wait- and that did yield some beautiful results. I utilize cover crops extensively- but I've not put the wood chips over the cover crop- I'll have to try that. It's also good to hear from someone who has compared the dig vs no dig yields. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
Great video. I also have a hard pan about 10 inches down. That is why I run my subsoiler at 20 inches deep, to help water get down to that level. It should only take one or two passes with the subsoiler to loosen the garden area.
I'd really like to get a subsoiler over to my mom & dad's place- Like you said, I think 1 or 2 passes and leaving it at that could really help. After that we could focus on rebuilding the soil.
I'm in Ohio. You need a lot of compost to begin a no dig system. It gets easier over time tho. In my 3 rd year. It works great. Oh and wood chips in paths and around.
Glad to hear it's working well for you, Jeff! I think you hit on an important point- time & patience is key!
Glad to see an honest opinion. No-Dig has become the rule (almost a dogma), but it fails to clearly state that works great under very specific conditions: access to a high amount of compost, regular rain to keep always moist, no clay soil and may be other conditions I've not seen on my own experience. I do think each one needs to look at own conditions and not apply universal rules.
I'm with you- taking into account your individual conditions is key!
Heavy Clay soil that I have been amending with home made compost and mushroom compost for at least twenty years. Still haven't transitioned 100% to no dig. Always seed with rye grass in the fall and top dress in the spring. One of my beds that is mainly for root crops is over 12" deep and I still have to lightly work it in the spring.
That is good to know John- I'm glad to hear from someone who has been working on their soil as long as you have!
You are absolutely right and, similar to the many comments posted, I have also struggled with my clay/sand soil. Almost always the no-dig crowd pop-up and simply claim that I just didn't try hard enough. The no-dig method can work but I have seen quite a lot of failures as well and not just on clay soils, which is why I whole heartily agree with you that gardening should not be dogmatic. I have started to make 'biochar' in my wood stove, which is quite efficient as I can use the wood gas to heat my house and the biochar is ground up and ends up in my compost bin. The biochar helps to loosen the clay/sand soil, making it less soggy in winter and prevents it turning into some kind of concrete in summer.
I want to start making my own biochar as well!
In that case I feel I should add that I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination. However, from what I have learned is that woodchips are a great source and not too chunky. You can use GN 1/2 (kitchen ware, stainless) and with the matching lid, you can make 'biochar' in your stove. There is quite a lot of info out there. Hope this helps and thank you for all the great content on your channel!
I have nothing but hard red clump clay about 1/8 inch under my grass. If I no dig, I no grow. 🤣
Oh goodness... that's funny and not funny at the same time... "If I no dig, I no grow" 😆. Sorry to hear you're dealing with such awful clay!
Thank you for mentioning the water retention of clay. I garden in west Texas. My native area is hot, arid and windy so compost can lose water in a matter of minutes. The clay holds water much better so I amend my native with some compost and it holds on to water excellently. I found with roses planting them in a hole without disturbing the surrounding soil and just an inch or so of compost at the bottom, is great. It takes 2 years for them to get established but when they do I only water every 2 weeks or less even when temps are in the 100s every day.
I should have added I use species roses not hybrids because hybrid roses are delicate and the grafted tops die in my area. They cannot deal with the heat and wind.
Thanks for sharing-- I'm sure this will give folks dealing with the same issue hope! You bring up an excellent point... it's important to seek out those plants that can handle the soil (and heat)... but during those 100 degree days clay can be a blessing!
Thanks Jenna. Good topic. I used to rotor till my garden every spring but a couple years ago started practicing more no dig and being more diligent with keeping my garden mulched all year around. Now I compost all my beds in the fall as Charles does and put leaves mixed with some grass clippings down as a mulch. I noticed last year less flee beetles which may or may not have been from no dig. I definitely noticed more worms also.
I have mostly raised beds and as I replace old dilapidated boxes with new boxes I practice Hügelkultur techniques before I put the new box in place. I have noticed the soil in the old bed is sometimes compacted so I do rototill before digging it out. I dig down several inches below grade, put a layer of half rotted logs, followed by horse manure and straw, and rough organic matter such as bush clippings, old asparagus canes or viney material such as pole beans. Then compost and the old tilled top soil covered with more compost and mulch. A lot of work but I know that bed is good for many years and can be completely no dig now.
Oooh- once that all rots down that is going to be some amazing soil! Thanks for sharing what you are doing!
I do a similar process. Really helps
I live in Columbus Ohio and my soil is heavy clay on top of heavy clay. We rented a 2 man auger and set our fence posts at 38-42 inches. Pure clay on top of existing clay. We never saw any roots below 12". This has been a vacant lot for 20 years.
I tried the layer method on 5 30 foot gardens 4 feet wide.
I had the same problems you had, so the next plot I planted cereal rye in the fall, then buckwheat I wanted to plant oats and oil radish till the freeze but we have not had enough rain for anything other then crabgrass to grow this fall. I'll start again next year.
This winter I plan on tilling all of my beds just to break up that clay underneath. so my plants can have more then 6 inches of soil.
Some of the oil seed radish I had planted in the layer beds refused to penetrate the clay, the roots went sideways.
Love your videos and appreciate all the time you take to show us your garden.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Your plot sounds very challenging, but I'm so glad you're working towards improving the soil!
Would mulching your compost rows help combat the issues you're having with no-dig and the drying out at the surface? I agree that you might need to till initially, but I wonder if a mulch layer (straw, hay etc) would help.
Absolutely! I like to use grass clippings- but still have better results if I gently mix the compost into the soil surface.
@@GrowfullywithJenna Fair enough, interesting that you use grass - I haven't found grass holds enough moisture. I think No Dig only really works the way Ruth Stout spoke about it (at a universal scale), and that's despite the fact that I really value Charles Dowding. Her approach was very much "drown weeds in mulch and you'll never have to water". Has worked well for me with the very dry summers we get in Toronto (though I do still sometimes water in very, very hot weeks).
Love the 'hybrid' method...we have lots of clay at 6-8" below surface and plants have done the 'j root' on me. So, we've tried both no-till and till to amend soils...praying for a good payoff in production this season.
I have clay soil(not as thick as you) and my biggest problem is that I don't really have to water often because my soil holds water really well. I set up raised beds and you have to water constantly because it dries out so fast! I had the same amount of weed issues too. I prefer digging the amendments into the original soil. It's the only thing that has worked decently for me. But, my budget is so low even that feels impossible. 1-2" of compost is still expensive 🙈
I agree- I like my raised beds for early season planting (when my main garden is really slow to dry out), but I much prefer planting in ground and am a bit spoiled for how little I have to water. That's one of the upsides of clay!
Compost is expensive in my area, so I'm making a new future garden area by adding wood chip mulch on top of cardboard along with grass clipping and leaf mulch. It should be good to plant in after 2 years.
I use no-dig on the same soil in Ohio. Just do an initial till to start the beds, and broadfork once a year (could be more, but I borrow my fork from a friend). Has worked great. I use hay instead of cardboard though bc I have free access to it. I do a light cultivation till, then add plenty of hay and then 3-4" of compost. Saves on compost bc of the hay, yet gives more depth. So every bed also just naturally becomes a raised bed.
Glad to hear this is working well for you! Thanks for sharing your method!
You made it clear. It is good to listen to advices and see for yourself what is good for you. I also not the fan of no dig. I trust to give my soil a little bit of air and I believe it does need to breath a little rather than suffocate it with cardboards and other staff. Thanks girl for clarity.
You hit the nail on the head-- 'see for yourself what is good for you'!
Heavy clay soil here.
Adding organic material is #1 solution but just a couple observations:
Use gypsum. Our heavy clay is over saturated in Mg which makes it very sticky. Gypsum, at a molecular level, 'pushes' Mg off outer valance orbital bond and replaces it with Ca. That Can atom decrease the stickiness. Gypsum works faster than ag lime as the texture is finer plus the add'l S in gypsum is a boon for many enzymatic process in the soil biology.
*Perennial* warm season grasses are great at breaking through clay and 'plowpan'. You mentioned (6:00) you still had issues even though the area had been lawn and clover for years.
Mown lawn and clover have short root systems, it may be dense but it doesn't penetrate.
If you can swing it, let a portion of future garden just go "feral". Don't mow it. Maybe help it along by sowing switch grass or bluestem or whatever warm season perennial grass grows in your area. After 2nd year weed whack in early autumn and let it grow again following year. Those tough, depth seeking roots 1) open channels for bacterial life/worms.
2) when you cut back the plant to ground level, the plant will then automatically 'prune' it's root system to compensate for lost photosynthesis. All those dead roots are leaving OG and plant acids which soften the clay.
Good luck
I'm curious about your experience with gypsum. I've read that it really on works on sodic clay soil, which is not what I have here. Does it work in non-sodic clay as well?
We're doing just what you recommend (letting the garden go 'feral') at my mom & dad's. It's fascinating to see the changes in the soil and the types of plants that want to dominate based on the soil changes.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@GrowfullywithJenna I live on old rice field on Texas Gulf Coastal Plains, about 55 miles inland. Originally this was tall grass prairie on top of low slope, slow draining vertisol soil.
Between the organic matter destroying tillage in a hot, wet climate plus 'land shaping' to facilitate field levees, we naturally have clay on the surface with shallow (2-4 inch deep) 'basins' of 1-3 sq meters interspersed. They act as collection points for organic material.
As noted earlier, we have very high Mg which is characteristic of "gumbo" clay. Salt is within normal to slightly elevated.
It's hard to say gypsum is THE factor of softening the soil or if a combo of factors help.
I will say when gypsum is surface applied in late autumn, then a year later I see an explosion of dandelion and evening primrose wildflowers. Even the hue of the primrose is very noticeable deeper. The calcium is no doubt the factor, as dandelion is a notorious sink for Ca. Conversely, wild onion/ garlic are profuse when I don't apply gypsum for a couple of years. This year I have a lot of wild onion so I know it's time to put down gypsum.
It was many many years before I started applying gypsum. The health of soil is dramatically better since I started that regimen
I'm lackadaisical in applying gypsum (every 3-4 years ?) but I see a noticeable difference compared to adjacent vacant land that is simply mown. I'm also stingy on applying fertilizer. I do so yearly, in early spring and in late autumn (elevated K formula) but only the most minimal amounts. Synthetic fertilizers seem to weaken grasses and the ground is droughty (probably from N burning through the organic matter).
My ground holds moisture better but also drains better after heavy rain. I have that magical "sponge" soil. It can absorb a lot rain but then it can slowly release the excess that doesn't migrate deep into soil horizon. Not unusual to see slow seepage of nearly *clear* water even 3-4 days after heavy rain event. The soil and grass are filtering very well.
Unfortunately, I haven't soil tested in many many years so I have no baseline or time measures of nutrient levels.
Anecdotally, the soil has grown "deeper" as opposed to higher, as expected of surface organic matter deposits. The gumbo clay has softened to such a degree that is very friable for a good 6 inches. Below that, the remnants of drought caused fissures/cracks are full of soft OM rich soils that has migrated to depth. Grass roots fill those passages. I imagine the roots and biota are mining the adjacent sticky gumbo.
I apply NO supplemental water, ever. Even if grass dies in large patches like 2012 drought it makes a quick and complete recovery when rains return. I believe the overall soil health speeds recovery.
All gypsum/fertilizer applications are made immediately preceding rain.
I know if I soil tested, I would find out what the specific "limiting factor" nutrient the soil lacks but I'm pursuing low input soil health as opposed to high input performance.
Gypsum has been a big positive for me.
What I see is that we have to assess our own soil and not to blindly copy what somebody else is doing although it works for them in their conditions. When I established new beds in my garden with a clay soil I dug the beds, added ground charcoal and horse manure on top. Then after harvest I plant green manure plants so their roots help to improve the soil quality. I've stopped buying compost as it usually contains pieces of plastics, broken glass, wires and other garbage (plus I have no control over the quality of input organic matter, meaning whether herbicides were used on it etc.). And I'm learning to make my own compost.
You've summed up the whole video in one sentence 😀. I appreciate you sharing what works for you!
I love the idea of no dig, in any soil. But, to be real about getting results, in clay, not much beats French biointensive double-dug soils. A couple years of spring exercise/digging gets you many years of high yield soil.
My dad is a fan of the double dig method, I've not yet tried it here!
100% with you on this. No dig zealots set up these artificial time, financial and logistical barriers that could be solved with a bit of elbow grease and a few bails of straw/wood chips, etc. And you'll have results this season!
I have the issues with my soil. My plot and the 15 areas ares around me used to be a far. We all have natural springs, mine are still active. The clay is terrible to work to in so you see a lot of raised beds. It's the only way to garden successfully. Keep up the good work Jenna. I live hearing the pros and cons of things.
Sorry to hear this, Lori- but your situation definitely goes to show the importance of individualizing your garden areas to your specific locale!
Hi Jenna. I'm in an area in Canada that has a decently long growing season but my lot is positioned over a thick clay sheet many feet deep and only a few feet below ground. It's a blue clay that is so fine it was actually mined at one time to use in pottery and brick manufacturing. As a result, my so called "topsoil" is almost impenetrable. There is no way in Hell that "no dig" would work for me. Earthworms are seldom found in my soil and I suspect the soil's microbial health is very poor. I've had to go to raised beds to grow anything but recently had some success on a hillside by digging up the clay and incorporating lots of compost. (NO SAND!) The hillside location allows it to drain and by leaving a lot of clay in the mix, it doesn't dry out so fast. Each garden location has it's own special problems and I'm glad to see that someone is finally speaking out about all these "one size fits all" solutions.
Yikes! Sounds like some truly challenging soil you are dealing with. But I’m glad to hear you’re seeing some results with compost!
I've had two farms in SE Ohio: one in rocky hill country & flat, clay, & leftover rock/cement and had to be creative in garden approaches with both trees and gardens. The present farm we live on has hidden cement patches where there used to stand barns that they took down and didn't remove it but simply pushed some debris in piles. I even had difficulty putting in poultry netting supports as they would meet very hard ground/cement, rock, clay. So I had to do container gardening on a small scale & straw bale gardening. We live in corn country so we get brutal west winds because of the miles of open fields, so growing corn is out of the question except for our rented fields which grow it just fine. The very best success I had with low growing crops was on a large, old rotting tree stump where I hilled mushroom compost/wood chip mulch on top to hold it in place. I grew sugar baby pumpkins and it did fantastic with no fertilizer. I also have success in growing in 19 gallon totes with hugelkultur principles: branches, greens, straw, leaves, old soil bottom to middle, compost on top. Hoops and frostcloth or tulle to cover and protect from insects. I grew my greens, sweet potatoes, very well. We just have to grow what will work with the land we have & find through experience how deep the soil goes before putting in more trees and fragile tall standing crops.
I would be kicked out of the no dig religion. There are a lot of fanatics in that church. The same goes with the food forrest people. When I started in my garden areas. I tilled mountains of screened wood chips and compost in the clay rather it was aged or fresh. My goal was to get loamy soil sooner than later. It has been about 12 years and I do have very good soil now. Although it didn't take that long. Maybe one year to be acceptable. People that have store bought fake garden soil can only dream of it. The Dowding method works for him because he has reliable moisture. People in drought country shouldn't do that, unless they use the compost as a mulch. I even think the Eden method should be tilled once in a while. Currently the only thing I use wood chips for is water retention until I get a strong wind storm that can scour them off, and use the fines as compost to be tilled in lightly. Always make clay a part of your soil mix in any raised bed. If you have sandy soil then find some clay. This year I may not till as much because of the fuel prices, unless I can get it done real quick with the Mantis. It pays to have several garden sections that can be planted and prepped at different times.
Yes, I would too 😄. I'm glad you found a method that worked well for you and I appreciate you sharing your experience!
you said it brother. I'm looking for a UA-cam channel with reality gardening. Not the exaggerations of fanatics.
Thanks Jenna! This was super helpful. As new gardeners, this was a subject we have been confused on. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I'm glad it was helpful, Mary!
So glad you made this video, I have tons of hard pan with rocks I'm trying to do a mix just like you . I'm trying cover crops and some ground busting plants like turnips this will be my first year at this house so we will see how it evolves. Thank you I love your videos, it was a pleasant surprise to see someone else with these issues. I find so many garden video with people with almost no issues with their soil . It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Glad it was helpful! Sounds like you are off to a good start- clay can be challenging for sure, but actually quite nice to garden in once you've given it some TLC. Best of luck!
I appreciate the time you put into this video. I got the no dig garden book in 2006 and have been farming with a modified version of it since then for a 190 member CSA. From my experience and that of farmers and growers around the USA i believe that it can work anywhere that a tilled garden can work. If flooding is an issue, it would be either way and raised beds do better. The way i broke from Dowding's methods was that i would start new beds by just weed whacking down the sod, dumping compost, then laying drip tape and landscape fabric over top. This is a great way to wide spacing crops like cabbage, or tomatoes, or vine crops that like fresh compost like squash, sweet potato or watermelon. Then in the fall, or next spring you can take off the fabric and a pristine seedbed is waiting for you to seed or plant. I used composted (or partially composted) horse bedding for this for years and it cooks down into beautiful rich soil under the fabric. This avoids the issues with the cardboard. As far as the cost of compost, i understand that not everyone can find an ideal source, but there are many places to look including farmers who buy it wholesale, and horse farms that are often paying to have it hauled off. I can see there being some crops that may not work well the first season if you're very compacted, like carrots, but by the second season you should be good to go on anything. Check out my guy Daniel Mays info at www.frithfarm.net/. I'm at hunterhillcsa.com. happy growing!
Thank you for sharing what has worked for you
You are spot on Jena. I have a heavy clay soil and no dig method doesn't work on it.
This has been my issue as well. Especially the part where the plants stay in the top few inches then getting smothered by rain that stays on the surface for a day or two. My solution was raised beds for root vegetables and fruiting plants. For my grains and beans, I do a hybrid. Till initially while burying things like fish carcasses and manure to help add organic matter several inches down, while adding organic matter to the surface via heavy mulching and compost applications between growth. Still, drainage is, and i fear will always be, an issue for row crops so digging out deep trenches between rows is a must as well as grading the growing area. This has taken years but overall, it's working much better than no till ever did for me. And for those wondering, im in the piedmont area of south carolina where sand gives way to clay.
Thank you so much for sharing your methods- this sounds like great approach!
Glad you said this. We have this exact soil type. To do 100% no dig I would need to employ 12-18” raised beds. (Which is what I do.) You also hit the nail on the head with compost alone not retaining moisture. Currently I am playing around with: square foot raised gardening, straw bale gardening, and your make beds no dig and amend once approach.
Sounds like you've got a great mix of approaches going on. I'd love to hear if you decide on one that you like the best!
Clay and shale here. Trying no dig and tarping. The no dig I'm trying is with lots of hay, well I'm just getting started. So I'm going to have to buy the hay. Also looking into crimping where you essentially knock down the grass, weeds and throw stuff on top. Still learning!
I hope it goes well for you!