Charles Dowding's no dig uses compost as mulch because of sluggs and snals. He tried cut grass, wood chips, etc. but in his climate (due to high humidity) it does not work very well. The climate in which Gardener Scott works is different. It can also use other materials for mulching (easier, cheaper). The climate and microclimate are important here, not semantics.
I suppose if wood chips don't work in high humidity climate they certainly won't do well in dry climate, it would take years and won't give much moisture to organic were the worms like to live.
@@JuliaShevua ironically, any dry carbon matter in dry climate serves to reduce soil evaporation, specially straw i'm in sahara desert, and i use straw and palm's woodchips, and it works well for me if i want to make a new bed, i dig the organic matter into the bed, and i got mushrooms right away (bc i put spoiled pomegranates an palm's dates into the soil)
The further I get into it, the more no dig I go. Charles Dowding doesn't say to only use compost. And he does disturb the soil for things like harvesting potatoes. He just does it as little as possible. I find it interesting how people on the no till side seem very anti-no dig. Lol, just think, Charles Dowding plants Rye. The difference is that he harvests the rye so he can eat it and mulches with the resulting straw.
If you think about it, the only difference between these types is where you make your compost, in a compost bin or directly in a bed. You can mulch your no dig bed if you need to. Just make your next amendment before winter to allow your mulch layer to decompose and activate a soil for the next season.
In one of my beds I accidentally learned about leaving the soil alone IE letting weeds overtake it for a couple of years through my own focusing elsewhere. I was so astonished when I revisited it to find that several plants had rebounded/persevered through the years (Bachelor Buttons, iris, lilies, onions and a few more). And...the actual soil itself had improved VS degraded. Love all you do from North Idaho zone 6a 🌻🌿💚
Fantastic commentary. They key in understanding "no-till" is first defining tillage. Or the destruction of soil structure for the purpose of eliminating pests and competition. Tillage removes herbaceous pests and leave behind a tilth. In no-till, you can hand amend. The key factor above all others is that you maintain soil structure. You maintain the aggregate of particles held together by glomalin, root exudate, worm excretions, decaying bacterial films, humic materials an so on; all of that natural glue binding the aggregate together. No-Till and No-dig both seek to achieve this through varying methodologies. And both can achieve it when do properly.
Just getting ready to watch, but today I got my first load of woodchips. My neighbor started a tree trimming business. I told him as long as I have room I'll take them. I don't plan on doing back to eden gardening, maybe a small area, but I'll use them as many ways I can. Now I have to watch everyone's videos on using woodchips.
Hello Sir. Ive started gardening in 2017, starting out with a few peas and carrots, this year im started to become fully self-sufficient in everything i can grow in my climate; Western Jutland, Denmark, zone 8A. Ive watched several youtubers over the years, but i must admit that you are the one that comes the closets to my scale of gardening, many of the others are borderlining commercialising their garden always squeezing out that last percentage telling how much money theres in it, for me that takes the joy and satisfaction out of it. What i learned is that in my soil, sandy/loose; 1: My garden is too big for no-dig, i dont trust the free compost we can get at our recyclingstation. If i used the Charles Dowding method, which may be superb for others, i would need to buy compost and cardboard, which would be very expensive. 2: If we do not get much snow during a winter, lets say less than 15-25cm, and frost, my soil would look like the surface of Mars without covercrops. Covercrops are vital to my soil, to avoid erotion, flushing out the nutrients and to keep some "loose" layer on top. 3: I was very suprised of how fast sandy soil compact just by its own weight and water "dragging" it down. If it do not loosing it mechanically, by fork or machine, the compacted layer will after 7-10cm (3-4 inches) will become so hard that you cant push a fork into it without using you legs. So loosing it, not necessarily tilling it, helps to add a rootlayer and helps drainage and i find earthworms deeper down. 4:Crop rotation helps a lot to prevent pests and helps to "massage" the soil layers. Rotation also keeps you on your toes regarding massaging the soil and making sure the nutrients and soil composition are correct at every place. 5: Any kind of mulch needs to be help down by something othervise it would blow away within a few days, which would require something substantial; netting of some kind and that is not practical for my size of garden. 6: I need to water relative often, since sandysoil do not hold water that well, but thats improving slowly year by year as i use the little compost i have and green manure/cover crops does a very good job for a very small amount. So what ive learned is that there is no golden solution; each garden requires slight adjustments to fit just that gardens needs, take that tip from there, that tip from there and that tip from him; its like a puzzle where you get each piece from a different place. Gardens are like humans; we all have the same basic needs, we just need them in slightly different ways to fit our needs.
Charles stays away from mulching with plants because of the warm.climate and the snail.problems and he is very resourceful in getting straw, grass clippings, leafs, coffe grounds, and horse.manure and all the rest and he is able to compost lots of things and to have massive compost bins
This was such a great episode mr Scott! When I really started to garden (5yrs ago) I watched many videos on no dig and really tried to just not “dig” ....but what I found in my area, the foothills of Alberta , the climate is so dry that my beds turned to concrete every winter and my limited compost just dried out like peat moss by the spring. So now I basically just fork in my compost every fall and put leaves over my beds. (Sometimes with plastic on top to hold it all in place) 😬 I realize that some gardeners might not approve,but when you live at altitude in a pretty dry climate, sometimes one needs to adapt to what one actually sees and experiences in the garden. I love mr Dowdings books and his philosophy,but here in Alberta I need to tweek his methods quite a bit actually to get the results I want. Love your channel btw.
Thanks, Derek! You've highlighted a key problem for some of us. Dry climate, along with frigid winters, require we garden differently than many popular methods.
That is exactly my experience as well and why I am researching what to do for prepping my no-til garden plot at my neighborhood community garden. I live at 7000ft in very arid SW Colorado. Cold winters and super windy springs. Very silty soils that turn into hard clay-like clumps (not technically clay), especially with our very hard calcium-rich groundwater. In the fall I covered my beds with horse manure, chopped-up leaves and some stakes to keep it in place. Many leaves have blown off and the soil looks very dry. I'm deciding whether to dig in the leaves and manure, or leave it as is and plant. The year before I dug it in and the soil looked great until I started watering and the hard water seems to turn it into cement.
@@erikaberglund2564 have you considered sunken beds? It sounds like a big part of your problem is the wind and the brutal sunlight at that elevation and the general dryness of the soil, sinking your working soil level half a foot to a foot below grade would alleviate all of that- at the cost of slowing down spring warming [a cost that could be alleviated with low tunnels if you felt so inclined.]
Really appreciate this video. My compost bin set-up is working nicely this winter. Going to try more compost as a mulch. Also growing some rye as well. Charles Dowding is an amazing presentor on no-dig. Farmer Jesse Frost is another great market gardener growing no-till in the Kentucky. Thank you Gardener Scott for another great video on these methods.
I ordered the greenstalk vertical garden system . Thank you for the link and the discount. It is what I wanted for our anniversary coming up , so hubby said go for it . Whoo hoooo.
It helps if you have trees, shrubs, and grass on your property. That's all biomass that can be used for mulch, compost piles, and to make liquid plant food.
I've done a lasagna plot and a hugelkulture one. They both attracted rodents, though many more in the hugel. Mice & moles 😡🙄 I loved my small wood chip experiment, in which I planted swiss chard. It wasn't only the healthiest-looking chard I ever grew, reaching a height of at least 15 inches, but the most productive and delicious. I took a three year break for health reasons, but this year I'm excited to try again with the no till method. Thanks for the video.. I just found your channel and look forward to checking out the others. ☀️☀️☀️💐💐🥀 Spring IS COMING though here in Maine it'll probably be late as usual! lol Happy gardening! 😊
For me, no dig a la Charles Dowding is the ideal - however for now I am largely no till for many of the reasons you give. When succession planting is combined with no dig, then there is very little bare soil and so less need of a mulch on top of the compost, with crops planted year round i think. It will be a while before my soil is fertile enough for no dig - I am building towards it. I like the practice of making great soil (compost), containing all a plant needs which then feeds the plants. But I'm not there yet, particularly as i'm changing from double dig and crop rotation (I shudder now) to no till (and then no dig). I always find your thoughtful and practical considerations of great interest and use. Thank you
I placed cardboard and some twigs and leaves down in our garden bed I placed news paper on top of that . Now I'm filling the raised bed with compost. And I will be using grass clippings to cover the top. Yes I'm buying the compost. Just because I don't have time.
Just a clarification. Charles Dowding only adds an inch of compost to the top of the bed. I use both systems in my garden. I have raised beds, in-ground beds and containers. The containers are no till. Make my own worm castings, hot compost and leaf mold. Also mulch my beds in SE Texas with straw. I guess you could say I have a fusion garden.
One important thing I learned about gardening in 8 years of keeping a garden, is that bare soil left on its own gets very hard and dry. Plants can't grow in rock...in order to soften the soil, you need to either till before every planting, OR use some kind of mulch in order to keep the soil moist. It's the moisture that keeps the soil soft. Tilling also works, but it encourages weeds, while mulching discourages them. I've found that I like loosely digging in some compost or manure, and then covering with black plastic mulch, or cardboard if I have enough of it. That said, I do find it necessary to till each of my beds perhaps once every two years or so, because my kids always walk on them and this compacts the soil, which contains a lot of clay.
Loved it mate... Got your channel from Tony O ayt Simplify gardening brother... Great Upload, and Highly informative... NATURE KNOWS BEST!! Fab stuff mate. Charles Dowding is the King.
Another great video! I like a hybrid of no-dig and no-till. I have 2 large (4' x 12' x 4' deep) composting bins because I know the value of finished compost in growing, but I started my beds by employing mostly no-till methods. I have a climate very similar to gardener Scott's and I am a huge believer in mulching. I have found chopped straw is great and this year I will try pine shavings and black plastic mulching; but every year when I put the beds to sleep, I spread about 2" of compost on top and then cover them with clear 6 mil plastic. Works like a charm in our zone 5b area.
I love it! You get it. My garden is put together a lot like yours. I have lasagna beds, hugel kultur, big piles of composting hay, use covers, companion planting, planting of beneficials, use cow and chicken manure etc. I use what I have and what nature provides. I am fortunate to have a ton of resources at my disposal right at home. A lot of what you explain in this video is how I garden and have learned along the way without always knowing it was a particular style or had a name. Hugel kultur for example. I simply observed that the soil under rotting trees is amazing, so I started making some for myself both as a present use planting medium and as a long term compost strategy. I have no issues with no dig vs. no till and use both. I care about no chemicals. Use what works and what's within your means. Both very natural. Keep up the good work!
Great comparison. I'm also using a back-to-Eden / no till method in my new orchard like you. For my veggies, I try to use no dig in my garden, but can't always buy enough compost, much like you mention, so resort to fall mulching too. Both work great in their own locations / purposes
I have been using the no till method of gardening for years. It is a little known fact that annual tilling actually does more harm than good. cover crops planted in the fall and worked into the soil in the spring is a very good way to fortify soild quickly.
I so AGREED with you Scott. I tried both methods in my garden too..now these day I don't mind a bit of digging really, good for my work out anyway. But you are so right too about we can not make huge amount of compost but also buying compost is VERY expensive in my area..so i tried to use whatever mother nature provide surrounding me like kelp and seaweeds to help rather just depend bought compost.
If you really pay attention to Charles he does plan ahead to get compost ahead of time the organic material is brought in, foraged from his garden and then creates the compost. So basically what you do on your beds he does in his compost heap continually. It just makes it so that you can do what you are doing but have compost for no dig.
Thankyou for your video. Really cleared a lot up for me as a new gardener and has encouraged me to experiment a bit and not feel like theres a right and wrong way.
Thanks for pointing up the differences and clearing up misconceptions - I'm in an 8b with prolonged periods of no rain especially in spring and summer, and this video went a long way in my decision making.
Iowa Zone 5a. Thanks for the clarification. Nice to know the method I stumbled onto is called No Till, not No Dig. After initially digging the garden and then trying to deal with the clumps of clay that I unearthed, I decided it was easier to keep laying mulch on top of mulch because it seemed like less work than digging. Shredded leaves, for example, laid over garden rows in the fall turn to leaf mold by mid June. Soil built this way seems okay, but I don't feel comfortable without breaking it up a little bit in the fall to work in my amendments and to loosen the compaction that occurs over the summer.
Very helpful video. I saw your lasagna gardening video and followed the method in my former tomatoes and yellow squash bed. I also put in cover crops in the bed and put leaves, pine needles as a mulch
no dig and no till gardening are valid ways of growing but for me I discovered if you have bad soil you can shred organic material especially leaves dig a trench and fill it with a bunch of shredded leaves in winter by spring you will have incredibly improved soil structure everyones soil is different however
Great video on explaining the difference. I was so confused before. So many people/channels do indeed use the terms interchangeably and really make people afraid to garden, because they don't want to do it "wrong."
Hey Scott... The Back to Eden video confused many gardeners. Although Paul uses wood chips in his orchard, he uses compost from his chicken run in his vegetable garden. I've even learned that he purchases some compost as well. But you're correct...Charles Dowding grows some great vegetables with no dig, but it requires a fair amount of compost that most of us can't produce or afford to buy! I think 'the answer' is sheet mulch/composting AND cover cropping while disturbing the soil as little as possible. About 25 years ago I placed a 12 foot ring of snow fence filled with fall leaves in my 'garden' which was parking lot like soil. In the spring tilling was tough going until I hit the spot where the leaves had been and the tiller sank effortlessly to it's maximum depth - nature had done the tilling!!! So I'm convinced that permanent beds with thick mulch (or cover crop) in fall makes a huge difference! 🙂
Wonderful explanation. I didn’t fully understand the nuances between the two types of gardening styles until I watched your video. While I make a lot of compost, it isn’t nearly enough for a no-dig garden. One hybrid system, I’ve been trying is to dig 12’ ditches around my raised beds and fill them with wood chips. Every year I am able to take back the top 2” of chips and use the 1/2 broken down wood chip layer below as mulch for my perennial beds. In effect, I’m producing my own mulch from wood chips. This seems to be the perfect mulch for my region as I too live in a dry area where 100% compost mulch requires lots of watering to be effective.
My father had a large garden in the backyard (with 7 kids to feed of course he did!). He broke all the rules of modern garden methodology. He planted the same crops in the same area every year. He used chicken manure from his brothers farm ( a year old) and planted right on top of it. He (and as I got older, we) turned over the garden every spring. I have a picture of this garden when he started it in the early 1950's. It is about 8 inches lower then the sidewalk he poured to the garage. By the time he passed in in 2010, the level of the soil was 12 inches above the sidewalk. He fed our family during the summer from that garden and in most years was able to sell the extra produce to a local grocery store. Where I live now, high altitude, hot summers, very cold winters, I found that very high raised beds seem to be the ticket. There are so many methods to garden, and all you really need is to find the method that works for your situation.
I've had both straw bale and regular raised beds at the same time for years. Before the beginning of a new planting season, I've been taking the broken-down straw from the previous year and burying it down the center of my raised beds to help retain moisture and capture the nutrients in the bales. This fall I think I'm just going to put down a heavy layer of straw mixed with tree and comfrey leaves from my yard on top and just let it break down. Then in the spring add another layer of straw, keep it wet and let it break down more and just plant in the raised bed as if it was a bunch of straw bale. No weeds, great results?
Thanks for making this important distinction. I tried "no dig" and it was a disaster. My muscular worms had a wonderful time pushing all my pea seeds back up to the surface early in the spring. They did the same thing with the carrot seeds and the beet seeds, and I think it happened because they had well-established tunnels and I did not disturb them. This year when I mixed up my compost into the soil before seeding, the worms were disrupted yes, but I don't really think I killed one of them. My peas are up now and looking great so far. Even in vermiculture, worms are disturbed a bit.
I wondered how/why some of my seeds move about an inch or more out of line. I just want to give a tip that might help. I saw on a homesteading video from Idaho that a man stated that his son put the carrot seeds in too deep. But, it worked! He believed the reason was the seeds were planted in manure that stayed moist. I tried it, and here in damp NE Florida it helped. I know some people plant shallow and use damp burlap or cardboard to get it started.
Charles no dig tech is good for humid climates, more resilient against slugs and other humid climate challenges, but needs lots of compost, but in humid climates there is more abundant organic mater to start from. We in dryer climates have to get the most out of the organic mater that we have, but need not worry so much about certain pests as humid gardeners. So we let things break down on site where it feeds the soil.
really really clear explanation; love the clarity and nuance you brought to this, showing how context is everything. Makes me want to experiment with both methods. And try to be clearer with my own students at high school :)
I am loving my lasagna gardening. My gardening setup and budget works best using that method and it give me more space for plants. I love how you show us all the options and their pros and cons. Thank you!
Great discussion about no dig vs. no till gardening. There are quite a few videos out this fall about one or the other but not a comparison of the two and the reasons behind using one over the other. The inclusion of all of the various methods you are using in your garden reinforced to me that the various methods I have combined together in my garden this year is not out of the norm. I have found that the continuous experimentation with the various methods helped produce a lot more vegetables than we ever thought would be possible from a first year garden. Thanks Gardner Scott! Always look forward to your input, ideas and your personal garden experiences in your videos.
I guess I use the no-till. I can't create that much, true compost to be a no-dig gardener. Basically, I use fall leaves and grass clippings, and dump those on top. I do nothing else. I've been doing this for 4 or 5 years now. My soil has completely changed and is much healthier now. I would recommend this method for anyone. I let everything break-down naturally, directly on top of my garden. I do have to clear the leaves, where I want my rows, to sow my seed. Other than that, it's very little work. My garden is about 11' x 22'. Also, since I switched to this method, I don't have a problem with moles creating tunnels, in my vegetable garden. I guess the soil stays too soft for the moles to create tunnels.
I am making my chicken run where the future garden will be. We will start with about 4-6 inches of wood chips to start. I have lots of leaves...would like your opinion as to whether to incorporate the leaves now or lot them break down separately then add in the future. There will also be other smaller garden areas, raised beds so the leaves will be used. Just want to do the best for my garden. ♥️👍🍁🤓
I would incorporate the leaves now. The leaves will decompose faster than the chips and add a variety of minerals and nutrients. Along with chicken manure they'll be a great start to good soil while the chips break down.
Hi Scott - Thank you for all of your great videos - I have learned so much!! I live on Vancouver Island on the west coast of British Columbia, Canada - a rainy temperate rain forest zone!!! This is my first year with a raised bed veggie garden - 12 ft long, 4 ft wide and 1 foot deep done in April 2020. PLace directly on soil - no barrier. I put a small layer of garden soil (from a pile at side of the house - leftover from digging planting holes, from pots from previous years, etc) on the bottom of the raised bed - this was the only soil I put into the bed. Then I mixed up bags of the following in a wheelbarrow - 2 bags organic topsoil (mix of peat loam, peat moss, sand and composted steer manure with mulch), 1 bag organic composted steer manure and 1 bag of organic compost (blend of manure, forestry by products, peat soil and other organic materials). Took approx 18 wheelbarrow loads to fill the raised bed. Thinking to myself - awesome rich soil for my new plants. Staked out a Square Foot garden so I could intensively plant and keep track of what did well and what didn’t like the crowding. I did a combo of transplants in May and again July. Put seeds in at the same times. Had 9 pots of tomatoes (same organic mix with more soil mixed in) that already had basil in each pot planted mid June. Tomatoes were mulched with straw. Results - my transplants stayed very small - growing very slowly. Seeds not growing hardly at all. Tomatoes and basil grew really well - after covering with poly over the cages when the weather turned really cool again in late June and early July. Had massive basil plants. My questions - Were my raised bed too nutrient dense and burned the transplant roots? Same with the seeds? Now at the fall - do I pull out or leave the remaining veggie plants (some lettuces, kale and a few carrots) in the bed - ie no dig - does that mean leave all plant roots in place? Once decide on pull out plants or not, then I can start to layer on rinsed seaweed (being on an island has it advantages!), chopped leaves, composted manures, commercial compost, top soil mix all topped off with straw? I have a hoop structure over the bed and was hoping to grow much later into the winter (our first frost date is around Nov 11). Presume I will take off the poly off the hoop house this winter and let the rain and cooling, wet weather do its magic with soil bacteria, fungi etc!!! Any suggestions and insights much appreciated.. Feeling quite discouraged at what didn’t happen this first growing season... after soooooo much effort... Many thanks!
That is a lot of organic matter and it could be a either too many nutrients or a nitrogen deficiency because some of the material wasn't full decomposed and robbed nitrogen from the plants. I would suggest mixing more garden soil to the organic material. Allowing it all to decompose over the winter should give you better results next year.
Hi Gardener Scott - Had a feeling I needed more local soil added in. Will harvest the remaining veggies and get started today. Then can layer seaweed, manure, compost and straw on top of the remixed bed for the winter magic to happen!!! Thanks for getting back to me.
Thank you for this video and the clarification provides. I am one who thought they were basically the same. It's important to have more knowledge than not so we can make educated decisions as to what's best for our circumstances. I think this also encourages more people to try and to not be afraid, like with composting. Knowing it's okay to slow compost helps a lot of us who are squeamish. Really well put together content, thank you.
The dehydrated compost was my thoughts to in a dryer climate. I find the thing that is key to good growth above all else is consistent moisture. Moisture will turn any concrete clay into workable soil. In the wheelbarrow fulls of compost I add every year most of it just makes it less like concrete when dry. It still can crack as it dries out. So I still put a 1/4 inch minus wood mulch on top to help retain moisture. A lot of new gardeners in dry areas think by adding mulch it will magically make virgin clay good soil. At first it is all the water doing the work. Water makes clay darker and makes it seem richer. It takes a lot of amendments at first or years of mulch breakdown to make truly richer soil. I mentioned that because it can fool you if you don't know.
You can make more compost than you think if you have the space. I've asked all of my neighbors what they use on their lawns. I've singled out the ones who use no pesticides or fertilizers. I take all those home depot bags full of dry leaves every november. Some years it's over a hundred bags :) There have been published analysis of the nutrient content of deciduous leaves and its comparable to the very expensive rock dust. i collect coffee grounds and with one big influx of my green garden waste its a huge pile. I can get 5 or 6 turns before it freezes and then let it break down the entire following growing season. In the fall I use the compost from the year before. It's a lot of work, admittedly for me being on the wrong side of 50 but it's mostly organic. Although I can't speak to the organic nature of the coffee grinds. No dig or till. Just alot of pitchfork work
I plan to do the same exact thing! Building a large bin this week. Using just my own chopped leaves (because I have plenty) and garden waste. Not even going to turn it. It will be composting for a full year, so am hoping nature will take of it for me. Anything not fully broken down can stay in the bin for another year. Beginning next fall, I'll be spreading out whatever compost I have ready and then adding a few inches of chopped leaf mulch that will hopefully last through winter and into the next growing season.
I agree leaves are the ultimate compost they contain minerals which raised bed gardens would likely benefit from and they have better water holding compacity than most soil types and they make the soil structure sognificantly better
Tilling is most often used to incorporate compost and other organic materials into the soil. If your soil isn't compacted and has enough organic matter, the tilling may not be necessary. Compost on top can be a good mulch and add nutrients to soil as it decomposes.
in the end it all boils down to use what's most appropriate for your soil and your climate, so do your research and experiment a lot which is the fun part of all this plant stuff :->
I am watching your video, always informative and good by the way. What I am hearing is that *no* *dig* is putting compost on the top of the soil ( maybe with mulch or cardboard or something under it, and gradually over the seasons building up that layer of very good soil. But what I am hearing is that *no* *till* is virtually the same only you use hay or wood chips ... and I think I must be missing something. Maybe it would help to define the terms *dig* and *till* . I somehow got the impression that both of these are reactions to the way the average American farm does agriculture these days. That is, to use the soil is a matrix on which is tilled, plowed or dug holes to put the plants in, and they are fed with chemicals, not with the nutrition in the soil. Is that true? So that *no* *dig* would mean not penetrating the soil below the layer of compost and just leaving it for the compost, mulch, wood chips, etc to foster the life that would slowly soften the ground and work its way into the soil. Would that makes sense? And then *no* *till* would be virtually the same but without using a plough to cut a valley in the soil to plant the seeds. I guess don't really see the difference as far the basics of what both methods do ... i.e. not having to work the underlying soil which may be problematic or need very intense labor?
Very good overview. I am in the process of upgrading my soil in my vegetable gardening beds and my landscape. I am using the no till method. Thanks for the information
Sorry for peppering your video with posts, but I really like it. Gets me excited to see so many bright, hard working, creative gardeners in your community. An initial look shows me that you have some of the best followers/subscribers/ contributors I've seen on youtube. Alright, back to work, got some cherries and walnuts to get in the ground yet today.
The word semantics comes from the ancient Greek word semantikos, meaning significant. Hearing someone say "just semantics" is a bell ring in my mind to pay closer attention.
A correction: Back to Eden confused so many. When you review the video closely you would realize that Paul Gautschi uses wood chips in his orchard, but in the garden he uses COMPOST from the chicken run and some purchased fully composted tub grinder chips. "No Till" and "No Dig" can both be summarized best as 'disturb the soil as little as possible'. And it might, or should be noted that both Paul Gautschi AND Ruth Stout tilled/plowed for years before adopting no dig/no till approaches to gardening.
I usually combine these when planting a tree or bush. Top dress with compost, then mulch with leaves, arborist chips or hay over that. Mainly because the compost starts immediately improving the texture, heavy clay in my case.
Thank You. I have never really realized the difference between no dig and no till. I am doing both in my raised bed garden. I use no dig for my berries and I use no till for the rest of my raised beds. If you live in an area that gets some snow, it can really compact the soil. Adding some goodies to the soil and covering with straw mulch will help to prevent that this winter.
Oh how we gardeners yearn to grow in our gardens and yet use terms inaccurately. I have caught myself a few times doing it. A neighbor mentioned to me, "oh your XYZ plants look wonderful this year." "Well, I use Dowding's no till gardening method." Bah, they did not care how I did it or the terminology I use ! They were just being friendly, nice people. They did not ask what I do to get blooms so bright. Anyways Scott, thank you again.
Thanks gardener Scott! The difference between no-till and no-dig is clear. What about the difference between "normal " and no-till? Beside the tilling itself anything else? If I remove the root of the plant or keep it in to decompose - does it play a role? What else, beside tilling is a no go for no till? Also would be great to learn more about cover crops 🤩
"Normal" is a relative term and varies by region so it's hard to define. Roots left in the ground do decompose and will improve the soil, but they take longer to break down than other parts of the plant. Adding organic matter is the key to no-till regardless of how it's incorporated. I have another video that discusses cover crops.
I am No Dig all the way but as you highlighted, it’s about having lots of compost. There’s never enough. I do some serious composting bringing home boxes of salad scraps from mess halls weekly and sawdust from my weekly firewood tree felling. What I’m trying to share is that I spend a lot of time and hassle to get an excellent compost in large enough quantities, and there’s never enough. So don’t be discouraged. If you look at Charles Dowding’s compost bin setup it’s massive and he has the material and labor going into it unlike a home garden.
I think most gardeners are envious of Charles' compost bins. In a recent video he mentioned that just one of his massive bins supplies a ton of compost.
Hey Gardner Scott. I hope you are recovering well after your treatment. Since you are restricted to the indoors. Have you ever thought of making a video about gardening tools and what works and what doesn't?
Thanks, Luciano. I have thought about that video. I have a video on my favorite tools already. I was thinking about doing one like you suggest in spring.
In the past you've mentioned that your native soil is basically compacted and lifeless. Do you think that a till-once method is reasonable to break up the soil and work in organic matter initially and then treat it as no-till from then on?
Yes. I have used till-once in other gardens and still own a tiller. My current soil is too hard and dense for the tiller to break up so I do most of the effort by hand or build raised beds.
I watched an episode of epic gardening that he did with charles dowding an he said that charles tilled the soil when he first started then after he loosened the soil he went to no dig. So the first time he put in his garden where he is now he tilled. Keven said it cuts out years of waiting. They till that first year then go to no dig and no till.
I love learning from you. At 10:32 in this video I see you sitting on the edge of a bed that has a metal outside. Please let me know what kind of sheet metal, for lack of a better wording, this is. I'm figuring out what material I want to use for only a slightly raised area for food producing bushes and strawberries. The troughs you use are attractive, but expensive, not even available here in the east. The raised beds provided by Epic Gardening are another expensive option, and I've seen some information that the durability is questionable. I see you have wood reinforcing that metal. Is it stained or otherwise coated with something that helps with rot without being too toxic? Thanks for your information.
Three years ago we added a layer of mill sawdust on top of our garden for weed prevention. It's 4-6" deep. This year was the first year weeds were prevalent. Do we just add compost and manure right on top of this layer? We have not amended our soil since adding the mill sawdust (very fine sawdust).
So can I do a combo if I'm in a hurry? Let's say I'm planting a fruit tree. Can I drop compost into the hole and then mulch the top to continue feeding?
With time you need way less compost. Most of it is used at the beginning. By buying wood chips and taking your neighbor's green trash you can create a lot of compost by your self. A m3 of woodchips with some green stuff takes covered maybe 6 months ( with a monthly flip)
I have just removed 40 oak trees from my backyard and it's covered in hard pan clay. I can't dig more than 1 inch. I can add wood chips and wait 2 years or till with rear tine once & amend the soil so I can have a harvest this year. Thoughts?
I'm taking out an area that has had a turf carpet and the soil is really compacted so I was wondering... Can I do the no dig method up here in the Massachusetts area and how do I start id I dont have tons of money to buy fertilizer? Thanks , I find your videos so helpful :)
Si "no till" es para el futuro y el Charles es inmediato pero sigue funcionando en el futuro es de suponer que es mejor ya que da resultados a corto y largo plazo.??? Para mi, como bien dices, el verdadero problema es conseguir todo el compost necesario.
No-till: "Shaken, not stirred."
No-dig: "Just throw an olive on top."
(I'll show myself out.)
Lmao. Perfect analogy. 👌
You funny 😆
ROFL 🤣
007 thanks you...
Best description ever!!! Here's a cookie 🍪 :)
Charles Dowding's no dig uses compost as mulch because of sluggs and snals. He tried cut grass, wood chips, etc. but in his climate (due to high humidity) it does not work very well. The climate in which Gardener Scott works is different. It can also use other materials for mulching (easier, cheaper). The climate and microclimate are important here, not semantics.
You got the point, man!
I suppose if wood chips don't work in high humidity climate they certainly won't do well in dry climate, it would take years and won't give much moisture to organic were the worms like to live.
@@JuliaShevua ironically, any dry carbon matter in dry climate serves to reduce soil evaporation, specially straw
i'm in sahara desert, and i use straw and palm's woodchips, and it works well for me
if i want to make a new bed, i dig the organic matter into the bed, and i got mushrooms right away (bc i put spoiled pomegranates an palm's dates into the soil)
The further I get into it, the more no dig I go. Charles Dowding doesn't say to only use compost. And he does disturb the soil for things like harvesting potatoes. He just does it as little as possible. I find it interesting how people on the no till side seem very anti-no dig. Lol, just think, Charles Dowding plants Rye. The difference is that he harvests the rye so he can eat it and mulches with the resulting straw.
If you think about it, the only difference between these types is where you make your compost, in a compost bin or directly in a bed. You can mulch your no dig bed if you need to. Just make your next amendment before winter to allow your mulch layer to decompose and activate a soil for the next season.
In one of my beds I accidentally learned about leaving the soil alone IE letting weeds overtake it for a couple of years through my own focusing elsewhere. I was so astonished when I revisited it to find that several plants had rebounded/persevered through the years (Bachelor Buttons, iris, lilies, onions and a few more). And...the actual soil itself had improved VS degraded. Love all you do from North Idaho zone 6a 🌻🌿💚
Fantastic commentary.
They key in understanding "no-till" is first defining tillage. Or the destruction of soil structure for the purpose of eliminating pests and competition. Tillage removes herbaceous pests and leave behind a tilth.
In no-till, you can hand amend. The key factor above all others is that you maintain soil structure. You maintain the aggregate of particles held together by glomalin, root exudate, worm excretions, decaying bacterial films, humic materials an so on; all of that natural glue binding the aggregate together.
No-Till and No-dig both seek to achieve this through varying methodologies. And both can achieve it when do properly.
Exactly this is why I see no difference between the two.
Just getting ready to watch, but today I got my first load of woodchips. My neighbor started a tree trimming business. I told him as long as I have room I'll take them. I don't plan on doing back to eden gardening, maybe a small area, but I'll use them as many ways I can. Now I have to watch everyone's videos on using woodchips.
Hello Sir.
Ive started gardening in 2017, starting out with a few peas and carrots, this year im started to become fully self-sufficient in everything i can grow in my climate; Western Jutland, Denmark, zone 8A.
Ive watched several youtubers over the years, but i must admit that you are the one that comes the closets to my scale of gardening, many of the others are borderlining commercialising their garden always squeezing out that last percentage telling how much money theres in it, for me that takes the joy and satisfaction out of it.
What i learned is that in my soil, sandy/loose;
1: My garden is too big for no-dig, i dont trust the free compost we can get at our recyclingstation.
If i used the Charles Dowding method, which may be superb for others, i would need to buy compost and cardboard, which would be very expensive.
2: If we do not get much snow during a winter, lets say less than 15-25cm, and frost, my soil would look like the surface of Mars without covercrops.
Covercrops are vital to my soil, to avoid erotion, flushing out the nutrients and to keep some "loose" layer on top.
3: I was very suprised of how fast sandy soil compact just by its own weight and water "dragging" it down.
If it do not loosing it mechanically, by fork or machine, the compacted layer will after 7-10cm (3-4 inches) will become so hard that you cant push a fork into it without using you legs.
So loosing it, not necessarily tilling it, helps to add a rootlayer and helps drainage and i find earthworms deeper down.
4:Crop rotation helps a lot to prevent pests and helps to "massage" the soil layers.
Rotation also keeps you on your toes regarding massaging the soil and making sure the nutrients and soil composition are correct at every place.
5: Any kind of mulch needs to be help down by something othervise it would blow away within a few days, which would require something substantial; netting of some kind and that is not practical for my size of garden.
6: I need to water relative often, since sandysoil do not hold water that well, but thats improving slowly year by year as i use the little compost i have and green manure/cover crops does a very good job for a very small amount.
So what ive learned is that there is no golden solution; each garden requires slight adjustments to fit just that gardens needs, take that tip from there, that tip from there and that tip from him; its like a puzzle where you get each piece from a different place.
Gardens are like humans; we all have the same basic needs, we just need them in slightly different ways to fit our needs.
I put down compost, THEN a thick layer of woodchip mulch. The soil is fed now AND later.
I make compost tea for asparagus and put a fine layer of composted manure around the plants in early Spring.
Charles stays away from mulching with plants because of the warm.climate and the snail.problems and he is very resourceful in getting straw, grass clippings, leafs, coffe grounds, and horse.manure and all the rest and he is able to compost lots of things and to have massive compost bins
Exactly, we are in UK and we use Charles Dowding method as there are lots of snails in this climate.
This was such a great episode mr Scott! When I really started to garden (5yrs ago) I watched many videos on no dig and really tried to just not “dig” ....but what I found in my area, the foothills of Alberta , the climate is so dry that my beds turned to concrete every winter and my limited compost just dried out like peat moss by the spring. So now I basically just fork in my compost every fall and put leaves over my beds. (Sometimes with plastic on top to hold it all in place) 😬 I realize that some gardeners might not approve,but when you live at altitude in a pretty dry climate, sometimes one needs to adapt to what one actually sees and experiences in the garden. I love mr Dowdings books and his philosophy,but here in Alberta I need to tweek his methods quite a bit actually to get the results I want. Love your channel btw.
Thanks, Derek! You've highlighted a key problem for some of us. Dry climate, along with frigid winters, require we garden differently than many popular methods.
@@GardenerScott Really dry this year in my part of MN. Last green thing standing as the trees lost their leaves..... my gardens!
That is exactly my experience as well and why I am researching what to do for prepping my no-til garden plot at my neighborhood community garden. I live at 7000ft in very arid SW Colorado. Cold winters and super windy springs. Very silty soils that turn into hard clay-like clumps (not technically clay), especially with our very hard calcium-rich groundwater. In the fall I covered my beds with horse manure, chopped-up leaves and some stakes to keep it in place. Many leaves have blown off and the soil looks very dry. I'm deciding whether to dig in the leaves and manure, or leave it as is and plant. The year before I dug it in and the soil looked great until I started watering and the hard water seems to turn it into cement.
I live in Alberta too, in Calgary
@@erikaberglund2564 have you considered sunken beds?
It sounds like a big part of your problem is the wind and the brutal sunlight at that elevation and the general dryness of the soil, sinking your working soil level half a foot to a foot below grade would alleviate all of that- at the cost of slowing down spring warming [a cost that could be alleviated with low tunnels if you felt so inclined.]
Really appreciate this video. My compost bin set-up is working nicely this winter. Going to try more compost as a mulch. Also growing some rye as well. Charles Dowding is an amazing presentor on no-dig. Farmer Jesse Frost is another great market gardener growing no-till in the Kentucky. Thank you Gardener Scott for another great video on these methods.
I ordered the greenstalk vertical garden system . Thank you for the link and the discount. It is what I wanted for our anniversary coming up , so hubby said go for it . Whoo hoooo.
Glad to hear that. Thanks!
It helps if you have trees, shrubs, and grass on your property. That's all biomass that can be used for mulch, compost piles, and to make liquid plant food.
I've done a lasagna plot and a hugelkulture one.
They both attracted rodents, though many more in the hugel. Mice & moles 😡🙄
I loved my small wood chip experiment, in which I planted swiss chard. It wasn't only the healthiest-looking chard I ever grew, reaching a height of at least 15 inches, but the most productive and delicious.
I took a three year break for health reasons, but this year I'm excited to try again with the no till method.
Thanks for the video.. I just found your channel and look forward to checking out the others.
☀️☀️☀️💐💐🥀 Spring IS COMING though here in Maine it'll probably be late as usual! lol Happy gardening! 😊
For me, no dig a la Charles Dowding is the ideal - however for now I am largely no till for many of the reasons you give. When succession planting is combined with no dig, then there is very little bare soil and so less need of a mulch on top of the compost, with crops planted year round i think. It will be a while before my soil is fertile enough for no dig - I am building towards it. I like the practice of making great soil (compost), containing all a plant needs which then feeds the plants. But I'm not there yet, particularly as i'm changing from double dig and crop rotation (I shudder now) to no till (and then no dig). I always find your thoughtful and practical considerations of great interest and use. Thank you
I had been scratching my head and this has helped clear it up for me thanks Scott 🙏
I placed cardboard and some twigs and leaves down in our garden bed I placed news paper on top of that . Now I'm filling the raised bed with compost. And I will be using grass clippings to cover the top. Yes I'm buying the compost. Just because I don't have time.
So I ended up getting a ton of compost for free from a farmer.
Just a clarification. Charles Dowding only adds an inch of compost to the top of the bed. I use both systems in my garden. I have raised beds, in-ground beds and containers. The containers are no till. Make my own worm castings, hot compost and leaf mold. Also mulch my beds in SE Texas with straw. I guess you could say I have a fusion garden.
Thanks, Scott
One important thing I learned about gardening in 8 years of keeping a garden, is that bare soil left on its own gets very hard and dry. Plants can't grow in rock...in order to soften the soil, you need to either till before every planting, OR use some kind of mulch in order to keep the soil moist. It's the moisture that keeps the soil soft. Tilling also works, but it encourages weeds, while mulching discourages them. I've found that I like loosely digging in some compost or manure, and then covering with black plastic mulch, or cardboard if I have enough of it. That said, I do find it necessary to till each of my beds perhaps once every two years or so, because my kids always walk on them and this compacts the soil, which contains a lot of clay.
Loved it mate... Got your channel from Tony O ayt Simplify gardening brother... Great Upload, and Highly informative... NATURE KNOWS BEST!! Fab stuff mate. Charles Dowding is the King.
Another great video! I like a hybrid of no-dig and no-till. I have 2 large (4' x 12' x 4' deep) composting bins because I know the value of finished compost in growing, but I started my beds by employing mostly no-till methods. I have a climate very similar to gardener Scott's and I am a huge believer in mulching. I have found chopped straw is great and this year I will try pine shavings and black plastic mulching; but every year when I put the beds to sleep, I spread about 2" of compost on top and then cover them with clear 6 mil plastic. Works like a charm in our zone 5b area.
I love it! You get it. My garden is put together a lot like yours. I have lasagna beds, hugel kultur, big piles of composting hay, use covers, companion planting, planting of beneficials, use cow and chicken manure etc. I use what I have and what nature provides. I am fortunate to have a ton of resources at my disposal right at home. A lot of what you explain in this video is how I garden and have learned along the way without always knowing it was a particular style or had a name. Hugel kultur for example. I simply observed that the soil under rotting trees is amazing, so I started making some for myself both as a present use planting medium and as a long term compost strategy.
I have no issues with no dig vs. no till and use both. I care about no chemicals. Use what works and what's within your means. Both very natural. Keep up the good work!
Great explanation. I am a hobbyist and my no till deep mulch produced gigantic sweet potatoes this year. This is my 2nd year and I am sold. Thank you.
Great comparison. I'm also using a back-to-Eden / no till method in my new orchard like you.
For my veggies, I try to use no dig in my garden, but can't always buy enough compost, much like you mention, so resort to fall mulching too. Both work great in their own locations / purposes
Same here, never have enough compost! Tried to make my own but it is a slow process, and is not enough, I buy but only small qtities
I have been using the no till method of gardening for years. It is a little known fact that annual tilling actually does more harm than good. cover crops planted in the fall and worked into the soil in the spring is a very good way to fortify soild quickly.
I so AGREED with you Scott. I tried both methods in my garden too..now these day I don't mind a bit of digging really, good for my work out anyway. But you are so right too about we can not make huge amount of compost but also buying compost is VERY expensive in my area..so i tried to use whatever mother nature provide surrounding me like kelp and seaweeds to help rather just depend bought compost.
No dig works well for me as I am also in 8b like Dowding even though not England.but rather the Pacific Northwest
If you really pay attention to Charles he does plan ahead to get compost ahead of time the organic material is brought in, foraged from his garden and then creates the compost. So basically what you do on your beds he does in his compost heap continually. It just makes it so that you can do what you are doing but have compost for no dig.
Thankyou for your video. Really cleared a lot up for me as a new gardener and has encouraged me to experiment a bit and not feel like theres a right and wrong way.
Thanks for pointing up the differences and clearing up misconceptions - I'm in an 8b with prolonged periods of no rain especially in spring and summer, and this video went a long way in my decision making.
Iowa Zone 5a. Thanks for the clarification. Nice to know the method I stumbled onto is called No Till, not No Dig. After initially digging the garden and then trying to deal with the clumps of clay that I unearthed, I decided it was easier to keep laying mulch on top of mulch because it seemed like less work than digging. Shredded leaves, for example, laid over garden rows in the fall turn to leaf mold by mid June. Soil built this way seems okay, but I don't feel comfortable without breaking it up a little bit in the fall to work in my amendments and to loosen the compaction that occurs over the summer.
Very helpful video. I saw your lasagna gardening video and followed the method in my former tomatoes and yellow squash bed. I also put in cover crops in the bed and put leaves, pine needles as a mulch
no dig and no till gardening are valid ways of growing but for me I discovered if you have bad soil you can shred organic material especially leaves dig a trench and fill it with a bunch of shredded leaves in winter by spring you will have incredibly improved soil structure everyones soil is different however
Great video on explaining the difference. I was so confused before. So many people/channels do indeed use the terms interchangeably and really make people afraid to garden, because they don't want to do it "wrong."
Hey Scott... The Back to Eden video confused many gardeners. Although Paul uses wood chips in his orchard, he uses compost from his chicken run in his vegetable garden. I've even learned that he purchases some compost as well.
But you're correct...Charles Dowding grows some great vegetables with no dig, but it requires a fair amount of compost that most of us can't produce or afford to buy! I think 'the answer' is sheet mulch/composting AND cover cropping while disturbing the soil as little as possible.
About 25 years ago I placed a 12 foot ring of snow fence filled with fall leaves in my 'garden' which was parking lot like soil. In the spring tilling was tough going until I hit the spot where the leaves had been and the tiller sank effortlessly to it's maximum depth - nature had done the tilling!!! So I'm convinced that permanent beds with thick mulch (or cover crop) in fall makes a huge difference! 🙂
Wonderful explanation. I didn’t fully understand the nuances between the two types of gardening styles until I watched your video. While I make a lot of compost, it isn’t nearly enough for a no-dig garden. One hybrid system, I’ve been trying is to dig 12’ ditches around my raised beds and fill them with wood chips. Every year I am able to take back the top 2” of chips and use the 1/2 broken down wood chip layer below as mulch for my perennial beds. In effect, I’m producing my own mulch from wood chips. This seems to be the perfect mulch for my region as I too live in a dry area where 100% compost mulch requires lots of watering to be effective.
Lots of people here with lots of ingenuity! Kinda restores your faith in humanity. Good work!
My father had a large garden in the backyard (with 7 kids to feed of course he did!). He broke all the rules of modern garden methodology. He planted the same crops in the same area every year. He used chicken manure from his brothers farm ( a year old) and planted right on top of it. He (and as I got older, we) turned over the garden every spring. I have a picture of this garden when he started it in the early 1950's. It is about 8 inches lower then the sidewalk he poured to the garage. By the time he passed in in 2010, the level of the soil was 12 inches above the sidewalk. He fed our family during the summer from that garden and in most years was able to sell the extra produce to a local grocery store.
Where I live now, high altitude, hot summers, very cold winters, I found that very high raised beds seem to be the ticket.
There are so many methods to garden, and all you really need is to find the method that works for your situation.
I've had both straw bale and regular raised beds at the same time for years. Before the beginning of a new planting season, I've been taking the broken-down straw from the previous year and burying it down the center of my raised beds to help retain moisture and capture the nutrients in the bales. This fall I think I'm just going to put down a heavy layer of straw mixed with tree and comfrey leaves from my yard on top and just let it break down. Then in the spring add another layer of straw, keep it wet and let it break down more and just plant in the raised bed as if it was a bunch of straw bale. No weeds, great results?
Thanks for making this important distinction. I tried "no dig" and it was a disaster. My muscular worms had a wonderful time pushing all my pea seeds back up to the surface early in the spring. They did the same thing with the carrot seeds and the beet seeds, and I think it happened because they had well-established tunnels and I did not disturb them. This year when I mixed up my compost into the soil before seeding, the worms were disrupted yes, but I don't really think I killed one of them. My peas are up now and looking great so far. Even in vermiculture, worms are disturbed a bit.
I wondered how/why some of my seeds move about an inch or more out of line. I just want to give a tip that might help. I saw on a homesteading video from Idaho that a man stated that his son put the carrot seeds in too deep. But, it worked! He believed the reason was the seeds were planted in manure that stayed moist. I tried it, and here in damp NE Florida it helped. I know some people plant shallow and use damp burlap or cardboard to get it started.
Thanks for the info Gardener Scott 👍🔥💪🙏
thanks for nicely explained 👍
This was very helpful. I guess I do a combo of both no dig and no till throughout my garden.
Charles no dig tech is good for humid climates, more resilient against slugs and other humid climate challenges, but needs lots of compost, but in humid climates there is more abundant organic mater to start from. We in dryer climates have to get the most out of the organic mater that we have, but need not worry so much about certain pests as humid gardeners. So we let things break down on site where it feeds the soil.
Thank you for explaining the. Difference between the two I love the history lesson good job
This really helped clarify what I need to do. Thank you!☺
really really clear explanation; love the clarity and nuance you brought to this, showing how context is everything. Makes me want to experiment with both methods. And try to be clearer with my own students at high school :)
I needed to see this explanation. Thank you. This cleared up so much for me as a new gardener.
I am loving my lasagna gardening. My gardening setup and budget works best using that method and it give me more space for plants. I love how you show us all the options and their pros and cons. Thank you!
Great discussion about no dig vs. no till gardening. There are quite a few videos out this fall about one or the other but not a comparison of the two and the reasons behind using one over the other. The inclusion of all of the various methods you are using in your garden reinforced to me that the various methods I have combined together in my garden this year is not out of the norm. I have found that the continuous experimentation with the various methods helped produce a lot more vegetables than we ever thought would be possible from a first year garden. Thanks Gardner Scott! Always look forward to your input, ideas and your personal garden experiences in your videos.
I guess I use the no-till. I can't create that much, true compost to be a no-dig gardener. Basically, I use fall leaves and grass clippings, and dump those on top. I do nothing else. I've been doing this for 4 or 5 years now. My soil has completely changed and is much healthier now. I would recommend this method for anyone. I let everything break-down naturally, directly on top of my garden. I do have to clear the leaves, where I want my rows, to sow my seed. Other than that, it's very little work. My garden is about 11' x 22'. Also, since I switched to this method, I don't have a problem with moles creating tunnels, in my vegetable garden. I guess the soil stays too soft for the moles to create tunnels.
Glad that's working for you because I'm starting that method this fall!
I am making my chicken run where the future garden will be. We will start with about 4-6 inches of wood chips to start. I have lots of leaves...would like your opinion as to whether to incorporate the leaves now or lot them break down separately then add in the future. There will also be other smaller garden areas, raised beds so the leaves will be used. Just want to do the best for my garden.
♥️👍🍁🤓
I would incorporate the leaves now. The leaves will decompose faster than the chips and add a variety of minerals and nutrients. Along with chicken manure they'll be a great start to good soil while the chips break down.
@@GardenerScott thank you, love your channel!♥️👍🍁
Hi Scott - Thank you for all of your great videos - I have learned so much!! I live on Vancouver Island on the west coast of British Columbia, Canada - a rainy temperate rain forest zone!!! This is my first year with a raised bed veggie garden - 12 ft long, 4 ft wide and 1 foot deep done in April 2020. PLace directly on soil - no barrier. I put a small layer of garden soil (from a pile at side of the house - leftover from digging planting holes, from pots from previous years, etc) on the bottom of the raised bed - this was the only soil I put into the bed. Then I mixed up bags of the following in a wheelbarrow - 2 bags organic topsoil (mix of peat loam, peat moss, sand and composted steer manure with mulch), 1 bag organic composted steer manure and 1 bag of organic compost (blend of manure, forestry by products, peat soil and other organic materials). Took approx 18 wheelbarrow loads to fill the raised bed. Thinking to myself - awesome rich soil for my new plants. Staked out a Square Foot garden so I could intensively plant and keep track of what did well and what didn’t like the crowding. I did a combo of transplants in May and again July. Put seeds in at the same times. Had 9 pots of tomatoes (same organic mix with more soil mixed in) that already had basil in each pot planted mid June. Tomatoes were mulched with straw. Results - my transplants stayed very small - growing very slowly. Seeds not growing hardly at all. Tomatoes and basil grew really well - after covering with poly over the cages when the weather turned really cool again in late June and early July. Had massive basil plants. My questions - Were my raised bed too nutrient dense and burned the transplant roots? Same with the seeds? Now at the fall - do I pull out or leave the remaining veggie plants (some lettuces, kale and a few carrots) in the bed - ie no dig - does that mean leave all plant roots in place? Once decide on pull out plants or not, then I can start to layer on rinsed seaweed (being on an island has it advantages!), chopped leaves, composted manures, commercial compost, top soil mix all topped off with straw? I have a hoop structure over the bed and was hoping to grow much later into the winter (our first frost date is around Nov 11). Presume I will take off the poly off the hoop house this winter and let the rain and cooling, wet weather do its magic with soil bacteria, fungi etc!!! Any suggestions and insights much appreciated.. Feeling quite discouraged at what didn’t happen this first growing season... after soooooo much effort... Many thanks!
Also do I need to add more garden soil into the bed - in essence starting from scratch?
That is a lot of organic matter and it could be a either too many nutrients or a nitrogen deficiency because some of the material wasn't full decomposed and robbed nitrogen from the plants. I would suggest mixing more garden soil to the organic material. Allowing it all to decompose over the winter should give you better results next year.
Hi Gardener Scott - Had a feeling I needed more local soil added in. Will harvest the remaining veggies and get started today. Then can layer seaweed, manure, compost and straw on top of the remixed bed for the winter magic to happen!!! Thanks for getting back to me.
Thanks for the explanation. Currently doing no-till as I have raised beds due to my soggy backyard.
Very interesting differences !
Thank you for this video and the clarification provides. I am one who thought they were basically the same. It's important to have more knowledge than not so we can make educated decisions as to what's best for our circumstances. I think this also encourages more people to try and to not be afraid, like with composting. Knowing it's okay to slow compost helps a lot of us who are squeamish. Really well put together content, thank you.
The dehydrated compost was my thoughts to in a dryer climate. I find the thing that is key to good growth above all else is consistent moisture. Moisture will turn any concrete clay into workable soil. In the wheelbarrow fulls of compost I add every year most of it just makes it less like concrete when dry. It still can crack as it dries out. So I still put a 1/4 inch minus wood mulch on top to help retain moisture.
A lot of new gardeners in dry areas think by adding mulch it will magically make virgin clay good soil. At first it is all the water doing the work. Water makes clay darker and makes it seem richer. It takes a lot of amendments at first or years of mulch breakdown to make truly richer soil. I mentioned that because it can fool you if you don't know.
You can make more compost than you think if you have the space. I've asked all of my neighbors what they use on their lawns. I've singled out the ones who use no pesticides or fertilizers. I take all those home depot bags full of dry leaves every november. Some years it's over a hundred bags :) There have been published analysis of the nutrient content of deciduous leaves and its comparable to the very expensive rock dust. i collect coffee grounds and with one big influx of my green garden waste its a huge pile. I can get 5 or 6 turns before it freezes and then let it break down the entire following growing season. In the fall I use the compost from the year before. It's a lot of work, admittedly for me being on the wrong side of 50 but it's mostly organic. Although I can't speak to the organic nature of the coffee grinds. No dig or till. Just alot of pitchfork work
I plan to do the same exact thing! Building a large bin this week. Using just my own chopped leaves (because I have plenty) and garden waste. Not even going to turn it. It will be composting for a full year, so am hoping nature will take of it for me. Anything not fully broken down can stay in the bin for another year. Beginning next fall, I'll be spreading out whatever compost I have ready and then adding a few inches of chopped leaf mulch that will hopefully last through winter and into the next growing season.
I agree leaves are the ultimate compost they contain minerals which raised bed gardens would likely benefit from and they have better water holding compacity than most soil types and they make the soil structure sognificantly better
Great balanced and well explained video comparing both methods.
I till my vegetable garden then plant my garden then put my compost on the top. What do you think ? I liv in Belmar NJ
Tilling is most often used to incorporate compost and other organic materials into the soil. If your soil isn't compacted and has enough organic matter, the tilling may not be necessary. Compost on top can be a good mulch and add nutrients to soil as it decomposes.
Excellent explanation of distinguishing between the two.
I agree with this video and thanks for posting.
in the end it all boils down to use what's most appropriate for your soil and your climate, so do your research and experiment a lot which is the fun part of all this plant stuff :->
Thanks for covering this important subject 👍
I am watching your video, always informative and good by the way.
What I am hearing is that *no* *dig* is putting compost on the top of the soil ( maybe with mulch or cardboard or something under it, and gradually over the seasons building up that layer of very good soil.
But what I am hearing is that *no* *till* is virtually the same only you use hay or wood chips ... and I think I must be missing something.
Maybe it would help to define the terms *dig* and *till* .
I somehow got the impression that both of these are reactions to the way the average American farm does agriculture these days. That is, to use the soil is a matrix on which is tilled, plowed or dug holes to put the plants in, and they are fed with chemicals, not with the nutrition in the soil. Is that true?
So that *no* *dig* would mean not penetrating the soil below the layer of compost and just leaving it for the compost, mulch, wood chips, etc to foster the life that would slowly soften the ground and work its way into the soil. Would that makes sense?
And then *no* *till* would be virtually the same but without using a plough to cut a valley in the soil to plant the seeds.
I guess don't really see the difference as far the basics of what both methods do ... i.e. not having to work the underlying soil which may be problematic or need very intense labor?
Very good overview. I am in the process of upgrading my soil in my vegetable gardening beds and my landscape. I am using the no till method. Thanks for the information
Sorry for peppering your video with posts, but I really like it. Gets me excited to see so many bright, hard working, creative gardeners in your community. An initial look shows me that you have some of the best followers/subscribers/ contributors I've seen on youtube. Alright, back to work, got some cherries and walnuts to get in the ground yet today.
The word semantics comes from the ancient Greek word semantikos, meaning significant. Hearing someone say "just semantics" is a bell ring in my mind to pay closer attention.
Like how you broke the information down. I like you do both. ❤️
A correction: Back to Eden confused so many. When you review the video closely you would realize that Paul Gautschi uses wood chips in his orchard, but in the garden he uses COMPOST from the chicken run and some purchased fully composted tub grinder chips.
"No Till" and "No Dig" can both be summarized best as 'disturb the soil as little as possible'.
And it might, or should be noted that both Paul Gautschi AND Ruth Stout tilled/plowed for years before adopting no dig/no till approaches to gardening.
I'm wondering where a broad fork tool fits in.
Interesting information for sure!
A broad fork can be a good way to loosen compacted soil. I don't consider that digging.
Love the details you give and the comparing
Great video. Thank you for your knowledge.
I usually combine these when planting a tree or bush. Top dress with compost, then mulch with leaves, arborist chips or hay over that. Mainly because the compost starts immediately improving the texture, heavy clay in my case.
Of coarse mulch “immediately” does too, just at a much slower rate.
Thank You. I have never really realized the difference between no dig and no till. I am doing both in my raised bed garden. I use no dig for my berries and I use no till for the rest of my raised beds. If you live in an area that gets some snow, it can really compact the soil. Adding some goodies to the soil and covering with straw mulch will help to prevent that this winter.
Oh how we gardeners yearn to grow in our gardens and yet use terms inaccurately. I have caught myself a few times doing it. A neighbor mentioned to me, "oh your XYZ plants look wonderful this year." "Well, I use Dowding's no till gardening method." Bah, they did not care how I did it or the terminology I use ! They were just being friendly, nice people. They did not ask what I do to get blooms so bright.
Anyways Scott, thank you again.
I'm going to build me a broad fork as I am a Blacksmith ( beginner)
Excellent!! My 16 year old is a blacksmith as well and all about making some tools!!!
They're a lot of fun. I'd say metal handles as the extra heft vs wood is worth it, to say nothing of the durability. Meadow Creature is a great brand.
excellent advice 👍😄
I'm not done amending my garden still have to many rocks,One more season of tilter and pick up rocks
I know that problem! We use a tiller in our new beds for a few years to pull up all the rocks.
Isn't that what kids are for???
Just watched the video and comments to recharge my battery of common sense. Thanks Scott.
Great video!
Thats so interesting!
Thanks for the tips!
Thanks gardener Scott! The difference between no-till and no-dig is clear. What about the difference between "normal " and no-till? Beside the tilling itself anything else? If I remove the root of the plant or keep it in to decompose - does it play a role? What else, beside tilling is a no go for no till?
Also would be great to learn more about cover crops 🤩
"Normal" is a relative term and varies by region so it's hard to define. Roots left in the ground do decompose and will improve the soil, but they take longer to break down than other parts of the plant. Adding organic matter is the key to no-till regardless of how it's incorporated. I have another video that discusses cover crops.
@@GardenerScott thanks, will look for the cover crop video
I am No Dig all the way but as you highlighted, it’s about having lots of compost. There’s never enough. I do some serious composting bringing home boxes of salad scraps from mess halls weekly and sawdust from my weekly firewood tree felling. What I’m trying to share is that I spend a lot of time and hassle to get an excellent compost in large enough quantities, and there’s never enough. So don’t be discouraged. If you look at Charles Dowding’s compost bin setup it’s massive and he has the material and labor going into it unlike a home garden.
I think most gardeners are envious of Charles' compost bins. In a recent video he mentioned that just one of his massive bins supplies a ton of compost.
Thanks. Good explanation
Personally I like to mix the two. Compost and then a layer of wood chip
Love it. Just subscribed.
Thanks! Welcome to the channel!
Hey Gardner Scott. I hope you are recovering well after your treatment. Since you are restricted to the indoors. Have you ever thought of making a video about gardening tools and what works and what doesn't?
Thanks, Luciano. I have thought about that video. I have a video on my favorite tools already. I was thinking about doing one like you suggest in spring.
This was a great video
In the past you've mentioned that your native soil is basically compacted and lifeless. Do you think that a till-once method is reasonable to break up the soil and work in organic matter initially and then treat it as no-till from then on?
Yes. I have used till-once in other gardens and still own a tiller. My current soil is too hard and dense for the tiller to break up so I do most of the effort by hand or build raised beds.
I do it. Works fine. Treat it right and your soil will bounce back no problem.
I watched an episode of epic gardening that he did with charles dowding an he said that charles tilled the soil when he first started then after he loosened the soil he went to no dig. So the first time he put in his garden where he is now he tilled. Keven said it cuts out years of waiting. They till that first year then go to no dig and no till.
I love learning from you. At 10:32 in this video I see you sitting on the edge of a bed that has a metal outside. Please let me know what kind of sheet metal, for lack of a better wording, this is. I'm figuring out what material I want to use for only a slightly raised area for food producing bushes and strawberries. The troughs you use are attractive, but expensive, not even available here in the east. The raised beds provided by Epic Gardening are another expensive option, and I've seen some information that the durability is questionable. I see you have wood reinforcing that metal. Is it stained or otherwise coated with something that helps with rot without being too toxic? Thanks for your information.
It is galvanized steel. Here's how I build them: ua-cam.com/video/3GUEfP9K07o/v-deo.html
Three years ago we added a layer of mill sawdust on top of our garden for weed prevention. It's 4-6" deep. This year was the first year weeds were prevalent. Do we just add compost and manure right on top of this layer? We have not amended our soil since adding the mill sawdust (very fine sawdust).
You can add compost and manure on top and mix it all into the soil.
So can I do a combo if I'm in a hurry? Let's say I'm planting a fruit tree. Can I drop compost into the hole and then mulch the top to continue feeding?
Sure. You can definitely use whatever combination of gardening ideas works best for you.
Question when I harvest something should I leave the roots in and plant on top of that?
It depends on the plant and whether is will re-sprout.
With time you need way less compost. Most of it is used at the beginning. By buying wood chips and taking your neighbor's green trash you can create a lot of compost by your self.
A m3 of woodchips with some green stuff takes covered maybe 6 months ( with a monthly flip)
Woodchip breaking down in 6months? I'm pretty sure if I took a sieve onto your compost most of the woodchip will still be fresh.
I have just removed 40 oak trees from my backyard and it's covered in hard pan clay. I can't dig more than 1 inch. I can add wood chips and wait 2 years or till with rear tine once & amend the soil so I can have a harvest this year. Thoughts?
I think an initial tilling and adding organic matter is a good way to start improving poor soil and to get started growing sooner.
@@GardenerScott you are my hero. Thanks for all the great videos!!
I wish there was no-work gardening but then everyone would do it.
I'm taking out an area that has had a turf carpet and the soil is really compacted so I was wondering... Can I do the no dig method up here in the Massachusetts area and how do I start id I dont have tons of money to buy fertilizer?
Thanks , I find your videos so helpful :)
Can you always start with no dig, but it does require a substantial amount of compost. You can try to make your own to save money.
Si "no till" es para el futuro y el Charles es inmediato pero sigue funcionando en el futuro es de suponer que es mejor ya que da resultados a corto y largo plazo.??? Para mi, como bien dices, el verdadero problema es conseguir todo el compost necesario.