Handguns for Bear Defense
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2023
- Having talked with some sportsmen who have used handguns on grizzly bears, I think the hard-kicking "hand cannons" are NOT the way to go. Instead, we need precision bullet placement using a non-deforming projectile to give deep, straight-line penetration. There are examples of 9mm pistols dropping brown bears in Alaska using the right bullets. I prefer the added power and bullet mass of a 10mm. The Glock 20 using hard cast bullets has become the #1 choice for bear country.
I was mauled twenty some years ago on Kodiak. After my recovery I wrote a book on Brown/Grizzly bear maulings, researching every attack where I could get details (A Kodiak Bear Mauling - Amazon) and in a hundred or so cases where I could get good accounts I learned some very important things. All of this applies to browns and grizzlies, not black bears which when they do attack are very different (slow opening before attack). Almost no brown/grizzly attacks begin with a threat display where you'll have time to ready a precise shot. Nearly every actual attack begins when a bear senses your presence and for 'space' reasons moves downwind (they don't know we can't smell them) creeps within about 25 yards and then rushes you from the flank or rear. You will hear breaking brush and by the time you turn your head the bear is already on you. They are ambush predators on those fairly rare occasions when they actually want to attack a perceived threat. The bear that puffs up and makes a threat display is almost never a danger unless you do something stupid. Just like the rattlesnake that rattles isn't the one that bites you, the bear that makes a display is also giving you fair warning. As I said earlier, it's about space. Just lower your eyes (and yeah, keep a gun ready while doing this) and slowly back away. The very fact that he is warning you should let you know that he doesn't want to fight. You will not see the brown/grizzly that attacks you. He has already decided to punish you and has circled around and comes in from close up at 25-30 miles per hour. The problem is that so many people have encountered these threat displays that a myth has been created that this is how bear attacks start. I've been in that situation more times than I can remember (one brown bear per square mile on Kodiak), turn a corner along a trail and a bear jumps up, pops his teeth, pounds the ground with his paws. It's terrifying, and it is supposed to be. Lower your eyes, speak softly (I could never help murmuring "nice bear, good bear") and back away. If I had a piece of coal up my ass every time that happened I probably would have a small jar of diamonds now. Don't prepare for the attack that never happens, the one where you have time to draw and put a 10mm in his brain. You won't have that time. I should also comment that the video thumbnail opening this vid is the precisely wrong place to shoot a bear. A bear's brain is behind his nose and mouth. When he comes at you his head will be low, his nose pointed straight at you. That forehead on a brown/grizzly covers a big bone sagittal crest where the muscles for his neck and jaws attach. There's no brain behind that forehead. All the brain is below the level of the eyes, so if you get a shot with a handgun that black nose centers the brain. Just remember that he is coming in at 25 mph or better and making that shot is pure luck. Better to have a .45/70 or slug gun that will break bones and (if you're lucky) tumble the bear before he reaches you, and then be ready for additional killing shots. I had a rifle in my hands stalking a blacktail when the one that got me came in from the side. I did not have time to level that rifle before he was inside it and mowed me down. That's how actual brown/grizzly attacks happen.
A bears muscle is 3 times denser than man's. (3× as hard for a bullet to go one foot in bear muscle. There bones are 20× (time's) denser. They move faster than any animal in the woods. Your not going to hit a charging bear in the brain unless you see it in time or get really lucky. All the time that bear is ripping and chewing and flipping you around ; while you try to kill it with a shot to the brain. Because you've picked too small of a gun, wounding shots aren't getting deep enough or bad enough to kill the bear before it kills you. Bear defense means you don't get hurt at all, so what size gun dose you (the average guy) need? You didn't win if you die frist, or even last.😊
@@dallanpotter7082 I doubt there bones and muscles are that dence. That would make there bones more dence than lead and there muscles as dence as Aluminium. I don't think so.
Yeah, best to have a few people
@@JohnFrumFromAmerica The point is that killing is different that stopping. What difference does it make if one or more of your handgun shots penetrates into a lung and he dies 30 minutes after killing you? The rule of thumb among people who really know is that a proper big bear round should penetrate four feet of bone and muscle. The idea is (if you are lucky enough to get off a shot) that you break enough bone to tumble the bear and give you time for additional killing shots. Stops are different than killing. We're talking about brown/grizzlies which will be 600 to 1200 pounds depending in whether they are inland or coastal bears.
@@dallanpotter7082 You're right on the money. The idea is to STOP the bear, and to do that you need to break bones and do deep damage. I had less than a second to level a rifle that was already in my hands and wasn't able to do it. I'd never have had time to draw a handgun, and if I did what would it matter if he died an hour after tearing me up?
Growing up in Alaska and being with the State Troopers as well as MANY encounters with bears and moose I can say we always carried 12ga shotguns with slugs, never pistols. While reading Kodiakkieths accounts- he is dead on. Most people have no idea where the bears brain is, how small a target it really is and how fast the attack happens. When we saw someone with a pistol we always advised them to save a bullet for themselves. A brown/grizz/kodiak bear is big, strong and fast. Its claws are made for ripping through your torso, tearing you into non moving pieces and then using its large size to come down on you crushing the wind out of you and smashing your spine. They like you immobile and barely alive so they can return at their leisure to begin eating you. A handgun is a last resort. It generally will not penetrate all the muscle/ fat/ bone these huge creatures have. I have had quite a few moose chase me- they are faster than us but do not turn well so keep going around trees and such and dont stop, dont fall or you are dead. With a bear you generally get this feeling, smell them and hear them- if you are lucky. Just a feeling brought guns up pointing at all quadrants they may be coming and moving quickly out of the area as a team. You are NOT going to scare these bears away like a black. They used to come down to the river, look at us so we got their idea then took our fish while we left. Growing up there gave you great respect for these dangerous animals. We are NOT the top predator or animal out there. I have seen them attack trains, tear up cars and airplanes, destroy cabins and camp sites and picked up the remains of people-what little was left of them. My old guy advice-no pistol- carry a 12ga with 3" slugs and still use the one thing God gave us, our brain, to see a situation developing and getting away. If not steady yourself and blast as accurate as possible at this fast moving, head bobbing, absolutely terrifying creature because its come to a point where you HAVE to try to survive. How Kodiakkeith made it from a mauling means he had an angel on his shoulder and a fight for life. Stay safe out there.
In general a rifle 308 or shotgun would be best to have out in the deep wood's ..however always have a pistol (10mm) with ya as well!!
Good advice! When fishing on Kodiak I often carried a Baikal coach gun (12 Gauge) that fit in my pack with the stock popping up over my right shoulder for an easy draw. Luckily, brownies are fairly polite during the salmon runs because they have full bellies. I only had to use it once for a warning shot with an edgy bear that followed me when I backed away.
There have been literally hundreds of defensive use of pistols against bears of all types.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood When it comes to brown/grizzlies I'm guessing 99% of those "defensive" uses were against bears doing a threat display where there was no danger whatsoever. In ACTUAL attacks he's going to blindside you at 25-30 mph and you'd be damned lucky to even draw your gun, much less get a killing shot off. The other problem with pistols and bears is that once you put a slug into a bear he's now a wounded animal that is actually dangerous instead of one that just postures in a threatening way. Wounded bears are dangerous bears, so don't shoot them with inadequate arms.
@@kodiakkeith, Hey bud! Got an " Early days" story you might like. First week in Alaska I was walking back to our new remote cabin still moving in. Had NO bear knowledge at all except for a lil bit of common sence. Had a 22 rifle only & was hunting Spruce Hens on the walk in. ( There were zillions of them back then 39 years ago.) Tight, shoulder high vegetation everywhere except a few open swamps. Walking up the creek through one of those swamps a BIG grizzly came charging out across it, slid to a stop about 6 feet away & stood up snorting over the top of me. I knew better than to shoot him & piss him off so just stood there frozen in place. He eventually dropped back down, his face only 2 feet away, sniffed me hard & just turned away & slowly waddled away back across the swamp making a chucking sound that sounded like he was laughing at me. Scared the Holy Bejeebers out of me! I thought that was a 1 in a million event & would never happen again. ( And yes, I was VERY stupid back then.) The next day on another supply run walk in, again only armed with my trusty 22 it happened AGAIN! Same place, probably the same bear. I haden't yet learned how to identify individuals. Scared the hell out of me a second time. But both instances were compleatly harmless. Went to town & got a 44 & a 7mm rem mag the day after. Haven't been bluff charged since. I didn't know we were in one of the most densely bear populated areas in Alaska. 4-5 sightings a week was normal once we got settled in. Blacks & griz were all over the place. Was a freiking zoo there. Found an old bear stand only 1/4 mile from our cabin. Got certified, rebuilt the stand & during the summers practically lived in that stand. After 25 years had multi generations of grizzly families returning day after day. Only 2 grizzly attacks in 38 years. An old wounded 1 near the stand. ( Moose had kicked his face in. No fangs, broken jaw & starving to death. & a very young 1 in our front yard. Surprise up close encounter. He popped up only yards away over the ridge, stood up, let out the " death roar" & lunged. If my dog haden't appeared out of nowhere & jumped on his face giving me time to get my finger on my wife's 243 & shove the muzzle/fired into his chest he'd have had me. Lil 85 grain slug went through a front rib & exploded in his heart, his momentum impact still flipped me but he went down & died. Both strangers to our area. We had many regulars in our area. 100s of encounters w never a problem. Damn Black bears are the problem. 3 attacks by thoes under varying conditions & every one scared the daylights out of me. Now, 38 years later we don't even think of going outside unarmed. Too many close calls to even consider that. Even with a yardful of sentinal dogs one just never knows when that last encounter will be. I'm 74 & don't plan on becoming bear crap. But then, who does? It happens!
Another great video from Mr F. Thanks for sharing years of training and experience with us. Mr F is my go to guy for gun knowledge.
Clearly the most informative video on this topic that I've viewed on UA-cam. Thank you sir and many more please. It's refreshing to have someone who has the actual experience give his honest opinion using actual case examples. I have an elk hunt coming up in bear country and I'm planning to bring my 686 in 357 as well as a 45 ACP both with hard cast Buffalo Bore ammo. Feel better about the choices, but recognize that precision shooting is the key.
Good luck on your elk hunt!
Lots of great information and details into Ammo. And proper selection. I live in Nevada and we have an occasional bear siting and this video will greatly help in my carry gun and the ammo I load it with. Thank you for your time and work on your videos.
Thanks for the kind words.
This is best video I've seen regarding bear defense with a pistol! Excellent video, and good detail on penetrating ammo! Thank you
Thanks for showing my all time favorite caliber the 41 Rem. Magnum some love and mentioning it as a sufficient bear defense caliber. I listen to a few different channels covering the topic of bear defense handguns calibers, everybody harps on the 10mm or 44 magnum, you're the first to mention the 41 magnum...
In my opinion, this is the best discussion of bear handguns on UA-cam (at least of those I've watched so far). It embraces a philosophy I've had for some time. I'm not a hunter, nor do I venture in dangerous-game territory. But I do think anyone needing a handgun for self defense against charging humans can learn from it. The "Dirty Harry" approach won't work a majority of the time, unless you're a dead shot. The average human needs the lowest-recoiling handgun that will do the job.
Bears are where you find them, not where they say Bears will be.
I might add…. Bears are not where you expect to find them, they are where they find you?
@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284 Bears in the mirror are closer than they appear
Where there may be bears or man in the wilderness, I'm carrying. "Where there may be"
Bears are where the box of donuts are.
Bears are down at the local motorcycle bar.
This is perhaps the best review of handgun related bear defense I have seen.
My bear defense handgun of choice is the Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 3.8" compact 10mm. 11+1 rounds with the flush fit magazine and 15+1 with the extended. I carry a mix of Underwood 200 grain hard cast and 140 grain Xtreme Penetrator rounds.
Thanks for the kind words. Looks like you are using two of my personal favorite loads, you're well armed.
Great content, thanks for the time and effort you put into your presentation and totally agree.
Imo the only problem is with the honey badger and lehigh def as they're anemicly underpowered compared to underwood of the same or similarly designed projectiles, almost double or more fpe delivered.
Thanks for the kind words.
i live in nowhere near bear country wisconsin, but i found myself captivated for the full 35 minute presentation, which is rare for me these days. great info.. i noticed you have less than 1000 subs, so i decided to subscribe (#953). hopefully your channel gains the growth it rightfully deserves as a repository of specialized life saving, self defense, and survival information. happy trails!
Thanks for the kind words and subscription. I went over 1000 subs while on a bear hunt (video) in Wyoming, so will setup monetization today. My video on lessons learned on the hunt will post soon.
Thanks for the kind words and subscription.
Excellent suggestions Mr. Fairburn. Thank so much. A friend of mine who had a minor bear experience in Washington state came up with a practice drill along the lines of your charging bear scenario by having to adjust, downward, his aim. He would place three targets at 60ft., 40ft., and 20ft. and rapidly taking one shot at 60 then 40 then 20 trying to hit a melon-sized target. In a way, this was his attempt to adjust his site picture at an imaginary charging bear. It sounds easy, but it’s surprisingly quite difficult. Now imagine actually having to do that in real life-scary!
Remember practice on the quick draw and mag dump...........you won't have time to try to make that one single shot at it cuz it will be on you b4 you know it.
I would agree to aim a lil low on the bear charging.
A young assistant pastor in our area was out for a hike in the local hills here in NW Montana. Normally he hiked with the youth group from his church, but this time he was alone. Usually, he carried his 10mm Glock in his backpack with an empty chamber when out with the kids. This hike, for some unknown reason according to him, he carried his pistol with one in the chamber. Sure enough, he was attacked by a grizzly and was forced to shoot. His final round killed the bear at 6 ft.
During shooting drills for Grizz, I normally crap my pants first, so I am accustomed to shooting accurately with a load in my underwear!
Thank you for this important information over the last couple of years I've found myself in a challenge from a full grown black bear at 20' and a full grown mountain lion at a about 60'. In both those situations I found my brain searching for all the information just gave me plus I wished that I had already put a lot more energy into how likely these situations were going to be with the work that I was doing at the time. For the record large predators such as these don't acknowledge warning shots when they've already made their decision to attack
All that thinking isnt required to fire off a cloud of bear spray. Far easier. Far more effective. Vastly safer.
@@bearsmartdurangoFar LESS effective...research it!
This was a great video - I like listening to people with lots of experiences. Sometimes it doesn’t work exactly for each situation because there are so many variables, no two can be the exact same. However, there are some general principles that almost always apply and I think you got a lot of that here. Seeing your situation with .44 magnums makes me appreciate my time even more. I’m 51 myself and have no problems with my Ruger Redhawk .44 mag. I love that gun in the backcountry and you’re right - a chest holster is the way to go. Sure, it’s heavy but if it means turning around early because I’m exhausted, then so be it, but I’ll never be without that gun… unless I can’t shoot it anymore. I hope if that day happens I’m like 93 yrs old. I got the Hogue grips for it and work excellent. My ammo for black bear protection (thankfully I don’t live in a brown bear region) is Underwood 255 hard cast Elmer Keith style wadcutters. It’s plenty powerful, but able to be tamed. Some of the Buffalo Bore and Grizzly ammo is honestly too much to do several rounds in successively (for me). Underwood’s 255 grain is just about right for me. Old time black bear hunters say a .40 cal bullet (or greater) at 200 gr (or bigger) going 1,000 fpf (or more) will take any bear in the woods. I live by that advice when I am out there. Well, thanks for the video and be safe out there.
That is Jeff Cooper's old minimum hunting handgun formulas, .40/200/1000
I really appreciate the personal stories and insight. Hearing the examples "from the field" are great to listen to. Great channel!
Kind words, thank you.
Thank you so much for making this video with such a great explanation and wisdom.
I agree with Daniel B. Very good info delivered clearly and to the point. I'm sending it on to my son, who still (age 41) actively bowhunts elk in places where encounters like those you mentioned are possible. He has a Ruger Redhawk .44 in 5.5 inch, but he's been thinking about round count and faster reloading and wondering abt caliber. I believe this should help his decision-making. He's a surveyor and has loved to be out where the critters are all his life. Much obliged.
Just got back from Wyoming Bear hunt, no luck getting any on video, but my piece on the hunt should post today. All the guys there were packing a 10mm in various holsters with various appropriate loads.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb 👍 s'ok. Fall bear tastes better anyway
Grateful for your expertise and sharing these golden insights.
Will look for your book.
Thank you!
Enjoyed the video and detailed info on rounds and potential issues with very high pressure rounds in 10mm Glocks. Right rounds for penetration and shot placement, shot placement... one of the best videos on Bear defense I have found to date. No way am I counting on a 19 year old to guide me in brown bear territory. I don't care if he aced the test and or is certified by multiple credentialed guide training programs. Glad he lived to take away some lessons.
I have been camping in the Cascades in WA state for 17 years. I always have my Glock 10mm and my Rem 870P with an 18 inch barrel with slugs. The most important thing is to observe and walk slowly .
Inslee will be reintroducing grizzlies to the North Cascades soon. I always have my G20 with me and I will never stop visiting the Cascades regardless of what’s out there. Be safe!
Thank you for this! Subbed. IMO, the best video I've ever seen on this subject. Made me feel even a little better about the .45 XDS I often take into the Cascades. I also carry bear spray, which under most circumstances is what I'd first use for bear defense.
Just got back from Wyoming grizzly country. Most hunters I met were packing a 10mm. I heard several first-hand accounts of bear spray failure. They all still carry it, but put little faith in it.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb My own experiences with spray, 15 or so years ago I had a black bear coming towards me and the spray instantly caused it to turn away (and then the wind blew the spray in my eyes and blinded me), and just last summer I had to use it to stop an aggressive nanny mountain goat. It did stop her charge, but didn't really convince her to leave.
Anything below a 10mm in big bear Country is a 50% chance of killing a big bear. Remember....45 acp are slow and won't have the kind of penetration a 10mm hardcast would if you are faced a big bear in the cascades.
@@bigfootswatching9986 For sure friend, true that the 10 is much more powerful than the 45. One factor for me as a backpacker trying to conserve weight and bulk is that there are no 10mm's nearly as small as an XDS. But also the 10 recoils a lot more, which means in theory it should be easier to get faster follow up shots with a 45. IMO 3+ accurate shots with a 45 are better than 1-2 with a 10. Kind of like the 9 vs 45 argument lol.
Thank you for this video. My son and I are taking up deer hunting (with a crossbow) here in central NC and I'm in the market for a bear/big cat defense handgun. There are black bears in my area and some species of big cats as my brother snapped a pic of a BIG paw print in the mud on our last logging job. I've been watching quite a few videos on recommended calibers and the 10mm has won me over with the power, lower recoil in the semi auto and the capacity in a semi auto. Very good points on the ammunition to use also! I'm going shopping tomorrow at the local gun show! Good stuff my friend and thank you for your service in law enforcement.
Hope you found some useful info.
One of the most informative and realist videos ive ever seen. Thank you for taking the time to help us all out !
As a 30-year law enforcement officer and former Firearms instructor myself, I really enjoyed your video and agree wholeheartedly with everything you had to say about training, double Taps and shot placement as well as the calibers you chose. My bear gun is a Glock 20. thanks for making this great video!
Glad you liked the video! Thanks for your service.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Thank you for yours!
Excellent content as usual. Keep at it, sir
Your comments about lead on an animal charging straight at you are spot on. Practicing controlled doubles or double taps will teach any handgun shooter their best options for protecting themselves while being charged upon. The main thing they have to remember is to not freeze up. If at all possible, leave your handgun up on the firing line table and go run for about 15-20 yards and return to your stall and and pick up your gun and fire on the target while you're still breathing hard from your run. This is the closest thing that you can do to simulate dealing with a charging bear. See how you do and figure out where you might need some improvement.
That run-up advice is very much in point. That will be an adrenaline rush situation for sure and prep for that in any way will reap benefits. Nice add
Greetings from Bristol Bay, Alaska. You did an amazing job of explaining the rules of gunfighting bears in the 2020s. I switched from a 7" Super Redhawk to a Gen 4 Glock 40 a couple years ago for all of the reasons you explained.
With a hard cast bullet or Lehigh copper, the .40 should do just fine.
Load my 10 in 10 for the woods and 40s&w for everywhere else. The extractor catches the groove in the brass. Same principle as shooting 45 acp in a 460 rowland. 😊
115 grain lehighs at over 1700 fps in 10mm😊
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb sorry, not "a" Glock 40, S&W. "The" Gen 4 (supported chamber, unlike Gen 3) Glock 40, 6" 10mm 15+1+30, with 210 grain Buffalo Bore hard cast. A 5" 9mm+P or .40S&W with penetrators is plenty if you're the intended victim. Probably a better choice for weaker shooters to get another shot or 2 on target with the reduction in split times with the lower recoil. But it's the thought of being across the river from the victim that I'm still carrying the 6" 10mm.
@@pitchforkpeasant6219 nice. I'm going to have to test if 40S&W will run with the stock G40 springs for cheaper target ammo. Concealing a 6" double stack 10mm is ridiculous at 5'8" 160lbs, so I bring duty and pocket size 9mms on the airplane to town.
This is the best Bear defense video that I have seen. Thank you!!!
Thanks for the kind words.
Great video and information. And from what I’ve read and seen I agree with the Glock20 in 10mm, I’ve read they are very popular in Alaska. Thanks.
Excellent presentation. Very informative. Thank you.
The best I've ever seen, as a black bear hunter for yrs. I appreciate, although somewhat subdued value of shot placement with whatever caliber someone shoots very well. A charging bear has to be shot below the brow line(eyes or lower). They usually charge w/head down ears back, so take a knee or aim at back side of skull while standing. Two shots at bears w/308&300 win mag above brow line, bullet doesn't penetrate skull but rather follows curvature of skull cap & goes into spine if your lucky(autopsies proved). My 2 cents.
Good advice.
I like this man, he knows his stuff and carries himself very well, I get a comforting vibe from him that he is so well versed in firearms and hunting that I wouldn't have any problem with him leading a hunt!
Kind words, thank you.
Pressure to get limited tags for grizz.,all you hunters...take the never more seasons ever away from tree hugging Fish&Wildlife service WHO INDEED CARE MORE ABOUT THOSE BErs than you!period...you get a year in jail if the judgement goes against you in just defending yourself,or ESPECIALLY YOUR OWN CATTLE OR SHEEP OR ANIMAL CARCASS.
Grizz hunting has been banned in the lower 48s since the mid 1970s,&they STILL SAY THEYRE ENDANGERED!
TELL ME WHAT THAT MEANS?
DONT HIKE IN GRIZZ AREAS ANYMORE,AFTER ITS THEIR HOME!??😮
By the way in my Canada,ALL HANDGUNS OUTSIDE A RANGE SHOOTING HAVE BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE THE 1940 S SO DONT EVEN TALK HANDGUNS IF YOU ARE TO HUNT THERE.
NO GUNS PERIOD ALLOWED IN NATIONAL PARKS,WHERE A COUPLE&THEIR DOG WERE KILLED LAST MONTH IN ALBERTA,BY A MALE GRIZ.
This is the best report on handgun for bears ,very well done Sir.
I appreciate your advice. I haven't heard ANYONE talk about aiming down on an approaching target on UA-cam. Good real advice based on experience - no substitute for that. Thanks
Glad I could help.
Thanks for the video! I’ve long carried a 44 magnum carrying 250 to 280grn hardcast or solid factory loads from Buffalo Bore or Garrett for fieldwork here in Alaska. But, as I’ve gotten older I’ve decided to try 10mm, since 44 is less pleasant than it once was to shoot in my lighter weight S&W 69.
Getting old sucks, but the 10mm can be handled by anyone.
Presently, I carry a model 69. The loads are 300gr gas checked lead. For practicing tho, I load 44 specials. The concerning thing is that it only has 5 rounds. I am in the process of purchasing a FNX in 460 rowland. I haven't shot it so hopefully, I can. I know I can practice w 45acp fmj's.
That lighter weight S&W 69 44 can be quite nasty with recoil in the heavier 44 mag loadings. Awesome firearm though.
Recently here in Montana a tagged grizzly bear passed away from old age, when they did a necropsy they found six .357 rounds stuck in its skull. Precision is NOT always a guarantee for success, power is what is needed first then it's accuracy.
Were they .357 hollow point projectiles? Hard cast or solid Copper should have penetrated into the CNS.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jbI've personally seen someone shot a hug point blank in the head W/ a 357 solid copper, that bitch shook it off and ran. they ended up putting a hot loaded 44 in that beast.. since then we all started carrying 10mm, 44 mag hardened cast rounds.. learned real quick we have nothing on big animals .
How do you know it wasn't 38 special rounds stuck in it's skull? Doesn't 38 and 357 use the exact same bullets?
it could've been 38 special bullets, seems to me a 357 magnum would penetrate the skull, but not so certain a 38 would though, so seems it's plausible could've been 38 special
@@3rdeyespy967 it was a 357 mag. That's all the old timer carriers in that 6 shooter.
@@daryenmirabal2656 you talking about the bear in the top comment, or the hog?.... because I'm talking about the bear they found with 6 bullets in it's skull, the guy said it was 357 magnum rounds, but I don't know how they would be certain it was 357 since 38 special uses the exact same bullets, unless they know who shot the bear and asked them personally, it would be an uncertainty which was used
Over the years here in Alaska !
Started with SW 29 /629 in 4” and 6”then went up to FA 454 then the Glock 20 in 10mm Auto was introduced. For about 15 years the Glock 20 has been my trail pistol in Alaska. I slightly modified it to better handle heavy 200gr Hardcast at 1145 fps.
What modifications do you make?
Your video was well thought out. Not just shooting and comparing penetration. Bear attacks have so many variables that people just dont take into account. Enjoyed the insights.
Thank you.
For decades here in the West and in the Northern bear country, I have carried a Kimber 1911 modified for 45 Super loaded with my 250 grain hard cast handloads at 1,150fps. That handgun is carried in a strong side hip holster, and if one carries their rifle slung the proper way for quick dangerous game, it has never been a problem. In dangerous game country or even combat, we always suggest the rifle to be slung over the weak side shoulder, muzzle down and sling in the front with the weak hand holding the gun stock in ready fashion. This allows for a rapid mounting of the rifle to the shoulder with weak hand already in position, and when used with a proper sling, allows the sling to be taught behind the weak arm for extra bracing. When practiced, the dangerous game slung position can be very quick and precise for snap shots, but if one has a high probability of encounter, in tall vegetation, then the ready front carry position is best. The weak side carry position also allows the strong hand to be free and ready for quick draw of the pistol.
As a dedicated handgun hunter since the 70's, I also have carried various wheel guns with hard cast, heavy WFN's, and have spent much time shooting these to become quick and precise. However, I am not a fan of the more modern, heavier and harder recoiling 460, 480, 500, etc for bear defense, as I have high confidence in the 44mag and 45 Colt in +p+ loads with cast heavies. Those bullets drive completely through elk and similar sized game, and more than a few of those loads have dropped large bears. One gentleman even took a cape buffalo with his heavy 45 Colt load in a Ruger Blackhawk.
All good thoughts. I carried my M16in the army and generally, my hunting rifles as you describe.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I prefer my 308 Springfield Saint and my 10mm with 15 rds in it. 45 acp relatively speaking won't have the penetration for a big bear compare to a 10mm.
@@bigfootswatching9986 I think they were both referring to .45 Long Colt, which has more powder space behind it vs the .45 ACP… but who knows for sure.
@@bigfootswatching9986 45 super and 45 acp aren’t the same. While not a fan of .45 acp, I would gladly carry a .45 super if my 10mm weren’t available.
@kevinhart46yes...but you are going to drop that shotgun when the bear drops you from behind.
A shotgun or rifle is far superior...but a handhun is where you need it, when you need it.
I'm not a gun hobbyist and my hunting days are way past me. I truly admire sportsmen that are committed to the sport of hunting. I watch a lot of UA-cam videos and stumbled onto this one, not because of my interest in guns and hunting but because I couldn't stop watching after only a few minutes into the video. It is R A R E to see anyone on UA-cam that project knowledge and credibility like you in this video. I learned a lot from you today. Thank you.
You need to watch Paul Harrell's podcasts.
I couldn't say it better than the guy that just had that comment the one that said he wasn't a gun hobbyist but he like to hunt but he was way past this time he said he's a good man
I have seen a number of firearm videos and have to rate this one five stars an excellent presentation!
Thank you!
Enjoyed the video. Thanks for all of the great information. A story or three is great too!
Best video on the subject out there. Period
Thank you.
I have the Alaskan Chest Rig. I love it! My brother got it for me to use when I go hunting. I carry my G40 10mm, and it's awesome!
I had to make mine, but not Safariland and others make them ready-to-go.
Your advice is good and ballistics is essential
Very informative video sir. I myself haven’t been hunting or much less had an encounter with a grizzly. Someday I’ll go outdoors more. Sooner rather than later hopefully. I wanted to say I was paying attention the whole video. Just like when my grandfather used to sit me down to teach me something valuable. Thanks again!
Hope it helped.
Best bear defense tutorial I've seen by far. I think people would be wise to adopt your strategy.
Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for the kind words.
Just play dead,
@@oscarbear7498 How you supposed to play dead with a large bear chewing on your butt.
My #1 Choice is my 1911 converted to 460 Rowland. I carry my hand loads- 200 grain Lehigh penetrators for South Eastern woods carry. I load a little light for recoil mitigation ( 10.5 grains of longshot) 1370 avg fps Or if I need something more I’m loading 255 grain Underwood hardcast. I don’t know why this setup isn’t more mainstream given that it gives you 44 mag ballistics in a much lower recoiling, higher capacity, faster reloading, lighter weight package. Especially if you convert a Glock or FN.
Your setup sounds excellent. The secret is a hard, deep penetrating bullet (both of your choices match mine) and a pistol/load combo you can shoot effectively. I think you are well "loaded for bear," east or west.
I carry a 6" GP100 357 with 170 grain hard cast/gas check loaded pretty warm. In fact, the two bullets you showed on here side by side are identical to the ones I carry (Rimrock Bullets in Montana). I didn't know anything about the heat treating so I'm going to look into it. I live in SE Idaho so the places I go are mostly grizzly country.
Funny enough I was convinced to be more open to recommend 22 for self defense from 9 given if a newbie can't invest enough training time to land multiple accurate shots.
I'm new to the gun space but I respect wisdom when I hear it and this guy sounds like he has experience.
My choice is I train on Bear targets not life size but 33” high !
My choice has been for 55 years a .357 with heat treated hard cast bullets , lately I have been buying those bullets from Montana Bullet Works !
Primarily for the last 12 years my choice has been a S&W 629 with a 6” tube which I sent into Mag-Na-Port and had it ported !
I like the 250 grain Keith hard cast , but when I’m in bear country I have loaded 310 grain hard cast bullets in the cylinder !
Myself I agree with you on chest carry for a handgun which I have had for just over two years now so much more efficient than hip carry or cross draw !
I think a 357 magnum 4 inch barrel revolver with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast lead flat nose bullets is a very good bear defense handgun for most people especially if that's what you can handle well and get quick follow up shots on target with. Remember a grizzle bear can run in short sprints as fast as 35 mph. I highly recommend that you put bells on your legs to make noise when walking and bring a 12 gauge shotgun or 30 caliber rifle if you're in bear country. Bear spare only works if the wind is pointing away from you.
Just got back yesterday from a Wyoming video hunt for grizz. Lots of trail cam pix, but only saw a black bear live. The .357 w/Buffalo Bore loads would do fine. I heard several first-hand failures from bear spray use. Like you say, wind direction is biggest problem.
Brown bear scat is easy to differentiate from black bear - it’s the one with the bells in it.
Sir this is probably the best video I've ever seen on bear defense. Thank you
Thank you for the kind words.
The strap on the Alaskan is long enough it tucks behind the holster nicely and securely. If I’m on foot the strap stays tucked back and will not come out unless intentionally moved back out. Great holster. Also great video, thanks.
Alaska bushman 38 years. 25 working with the F&G dept. 5 bear attacks. 3 up close. 2 blackies & a young griz. If you think your going to have TIME to aim your delusional. Your response time will be 2-3 seconds if your lucky. Most attacks are 30 feet or less. Better learn to " point shoot" or your screwed. Im 74 years old, 140 lbs & i can pull my XDM-E & put 2 double taps into a 5 inch circle in just a tad over 1 second @ 15 yards due to the ergonomics of the XDM -E consistently using Underwoods 220 hardcasts lipstick bullets. And im NOT that great a pistol shot. Due to a complete failure of the REDHAWK 44s ability to stop a small moose charge w hot/ heavy bear loads i junked that unit & got the 454. Its even worse. Recoil is so intense its follow ups are virtually non existant in the TIME window one has. Theres a reason the 10s are taking over Alaska. They WORK! Underwood & Buffalo bore hot ( properly loaded) loads are what the 10s are suppost to be, not the watered down junk loads otherwise avaliable. Glocks HAVE to be rebuilt to be worth a damn. New bbls & triggers w shorter takeups & resets. The XDM-E has 15+1. Triggers already perfect. Was built right to begin with & dosent NEED modifying. Friend emptied his 500 into a small charging griz. On the last shot he finally hit the spine right behind the head @ 3 feet & its momentum still knocked him over. Your right, the big bore handguns just DONT have the knockdown needed. Nor the SPEED one needs in the SHTF moments. Up here single actions sre considered a joke gun only Cheechakos carry. Our standard carry is the lever action 45/70 ( for multiple besr attacks) rifles w the 10s as a backup you ALWAYS keep ON you in case the rifles out of instant reach. The " magic triangle" is the ONLY way to instantly drop a charging bear. Across the eyes down to the nose. Contrary to popular belief a bears skull is NOT bulletproof. Easily punctured for a brain shot. Check out Phil Schumakers 9mm grizzly attack kill. We had a F&G officer up here who only carried a S&W 40 his entire career. Retired unscathed. Several attacks & he laughed at the big bore guys. Back then all he could get was standard FMJs & he shot all his bears up close in the face. We didnt have the fancy stuff folks have today. Phils loads were 9mm 147 WFNHC Buffalo Bores & he dumped 5 into a grizzly from the side that was after one of his fishing clients. He had some short low count magazine on his favorite 9 he used too. Us bushmen had to load our own before B.B. & Underwood started up. 420 grain WFNHC @ 2100 FPS on the 45/70 & 320 grain WFNHC @ 1300 fps on the 44s. I shot my 1st charging griz @ 10 feet with a 375 H&H mag. I Hadnt learned the kneel down trick yet to shoot center mass straight into the bear & overshot its head hitting the spine & blowing a hole clean through it w a 300 grain Barnes X. Impact did flip him over & that sucker STILL ran 150 yards & swam 100 yards out into a lake before finally dying. 4 inches of its spinal cord was gone & it STILL ran off. My friends at F&G said it was sheer rage adrenalin & muscle memory that kept it going. Only a small 8 footer. When opened up its entire gutpack was completely jello. Every internal organ liquified. Sold that stupid 375 & got my 1st 45/70. Been with that for decades & its never taken more than one shot to flatten every bear since. Following summer in the same open swamp a 10 ft blackie stood up 200 yards away, let out the death roar & charged. I dropped to 1 knee & hit him center sternam @ 100 yards & he just folded & slid to a stop on his face. Found the undamaged slug just under the fur rear flank. Total energy dump INTO 😮the bear. Gave him about 10 minutes before walking over to it & it was DEAD. NO eyeball flinch at all when i stuck the muzzle into it to check. ( They ALWAYS die with their eyes open. If eyes are closed theyre bluffing you to get you closer for another attack.) Ive shot lots of bears over the decades since & never needed a follow up. I hate the damned black bears. Natural man-eaters who like to ambush one from behind up close if they can. Running statistics we found the Yellowstone's area grizzlies were a LOT more aggressive than the Alaskas bigger grizzlies are. Something we told folks up here is in an attack to shoot til your guns empty & then hurry up & reload in case that sucker gets up & comes after you again..we have lotsa bears, very few people.
....you sound like you hate bears & love killing them...."in self-defense"......even clear out to 100yds, away.....lol....guys like you need to be taken out of the bush......I too spent plenty of time helping friends of mine, for the last 35 years, in BC Can., both Wrangling & Ranching.....ALOT of both bears.....& there Father, aswell as my 2 friends, (brothers now over 60 like my self), taught me how to, as they do all their lives living in dense grizz & blackbear country, avoid attacks & killing them, because "a dead grizz or blackbear was money lost for a hunt" to them..... as their late Father was in the Guide & Outfitter business his entire life being born & raised on their Ranch & his Father started the business in the early 1900's. I too have been Ranching most my entire life in one way or another so I am no city-slicker 4wheeler/pick-up driv'n dick......been ahorseback ALL my life.....just FYI
Lots of great info, thanks! I collect old hunting books and all the way back the Lewis & Clark expedition, "plains" grizzlies had a very violent reputation.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb , Ya, they're different. While van camping in Montana we were next to a wide but only 6 inches deep shallow river. State picnic table just feet from the waters edge. We had a grizzly circling our camp all day staying just out of sight except for occasional flashes thought the trees Poppin his jaws & growling occasionally. Back & forth to the waters edge, turn around and circle back the other way. I kept my 45/70 on the table handy just in case. Night came, we set up the Coleman lantern on the table & had dinner. Bear had left. ( We thought) Jan thought it would make a pretty picture of the river so I grabbed the old flashcube disposable camera & took her picture sitting at the table with the river behind her. When we got back to Alaska had the camera pics developed. Imagine our surprise to see that bear just 4 feet behind her standing in the river & had used her shadow from the lantern in front of her & the river splashing noise to hide in as it was stalking up on us. We were seconds from an ambush & never knew it. We guess the flash in it's face from only 7-8 feet was enough to make it not attack us. We got into the van & went to sleep w/o a care in the world. Next morning that entire site was covered in grizzly tracks. We could see where it circled our van many times & the weirdest part is our very bear wary dog never said a word. Dog sleeps in the van w us at the foot of our bed on the floor. Nary a growl, nothing! For HER, THAT is a miracle. Being an Alaska bush dog she HATES bears & always tells us when one is near. Needless to say, we found another camping spot! 😁 We've found bear tracks around our van a lot over the years & that's why we NEVER tent camp. Have no intention of becoming a bear burrito. When younger I used to solo camp months at a time in the wilderness areas and I carried a hammock to sleep in. Put it HIGH UP between 2 trees & monkeyed my way across the support rope to get into it. No snakes, no bears, no cougars or wild canines could get me up there. ALWAYS kept a 22 L.R. ON me. Had a few hostile wildlife encounters over the years but never seen ANY critter that didn't instantly drop when shot in the eye/ brain up close.
@@idahosixgun5601, Try living in the Alaska bush for 30 years. I havent told even half of the stuff weve seen, been through. You citiots wouldnt know truth if it were biting your butt.
I love this guy he’s obviously very genuine and seems to know what he’s talking about
Thanks for the kind words.
Yeah- "seems to know"...
Not good enough.
It takes multiple big rifle rounds to stop a brown bear. Go into brown bear country with your pistol. Very bad idea.
In my early days in L.E.,I had a canine moving swiftly across the street in attack mode, I crouched to the level of the canine and fired one round hitting it in the shoulder. The canine stopped and turned around and hopped away. The owner took the canine to the animal hospital and survived.
This video was Incredible, very precise, informative and loaded with useful knowledge. Clear and straight to the point. It was designed for even someone who is new to this world can understand and appreciate. Thank you 🙏
Thank you for the kind words.
I just wanted to mention that my Aunt has been battling rheumatoid arthritis for decades. Her hands are in bad shape. I recently saw her at a family party. She looked fantastic. ( she lost a little weight and just looked really good for her age ) - Anyway, she told me she had been eating a very low carb diet. I asked her why and she said no drug or remedy prescribed by her doctors helped he more than a keto diet. I thought that was really interesting. She said keeping her carbs lower than 30 a day had all but relieved her pain and she won't dare go off plan because her hands haven't felt so good in years. Just thought I would pass that along! Thanks for the great video!
I watch my carbs, type 2 diabetes, but I'm allowed 60 per MEAL. She is eating very LOW in carbs.
I really enjoyed your well thought out informative video. Something I haven’t seen anyone touch on yet . Is hunting public land and returning to your truck after dark and the ever growing threat of the two legged vermin that cause havoc there. I was going to buy a 10mm , but during Covid I purchased a S&W 69 with a 4.25 barrel. It’s easy to carry , but the recoil is stiff to say the least . But my main concern now is the 5 round capacity . I’m going with a 10mm . I just can’t make up my mind . 1911 or Glock . I like the 1911 better. But I think I’m going with a Glock 20 for my everyday CCW and my woods gun . It’s unfortunate the shape this country is today , and getting worse . It’s not supposed to be that way in this country . Sorry for the long rant . And I’m subscribing. Keep the content coming sir. 🙏💕
Thanks for the kind words. A late cowboy buddy in Wyoming carried a S&W 69, but loaded it down with 265gr Heat treated cast bullets at about 900fps. That load should still drive deeply through muscle and bone.
I spend a lot of time in grizzly habitat. I actually live in grizzly habitat. I haven't had to shoot a bear, but I've had the gun in hand, waiting for her to make her move while cutting firewood a couple miles east of the house. That gun was a 357 revolver loaded with heavy cast bullets. I have loads pushing a self-cast 235gr WLN at 1100 fps. They will shoot through moose. I prefer semi-auto in 9mm and up though, for the capacity and the shootability. If I have to shoot a bear, I'm shooting for CNS, and shooting until I hit it.
Hey, the algorithm deemed me worthy of being exposed to your channel and I'm glad it did! I really enjoy your videos and look forward to watching more of them. You tell what you know and what you don't know firsthand, you tell where the information came from. Your years of experience combined with common sense informs what you say and is just what I was looking for right now. Thanks! :)
Thank you for the kind words.
Thank you sir for confirming my long held thoughts on autos for bear defense. One point I would like to add is that the rounds you suggest also shatter bone. A broken leg or shoulder could tumble the bear giving you time for fire and movement. At the speed the charge occurs it is difficult to get a good sight picture and aiming for the nose is sound advice. A miss to the head has a fair chance to shatter the collarbone or shoulder. I definitely be looking at the loads you suggest.
There are some commenters here also that have wise thoughts on bear encounters. Wonderful information here.
thanks for the kind words
This by far seems to make more sense than 90% of the bear vids I've seen on YT. Also, for someone that has some of the same hand and vision problems that you have I can relate.
Than how many handguns did you see being used in AK brown bears ?
How about not one hunter is that stupid to be using handguns with 1/2 the power of a 30-30 for brown bears.
This go use a handgun on these bears is absolute ignorant stupidity by morons who don't live in Alaska.
Dick, you earned a subscriber with this video. I'm on the East Coast. We have black bear everywhere in the Adirondack Park. We also have mountain lions no matter what the DEC tells you. Kinda like that previous comment "lions are where you find them." Like in my buddy's backyard, caught on trail cam about 200 yards from his house. I was doing some research on cast bullets for penetration on game. I have seen black bear walk quietly past my deer stand. I've seen lions a few hundred yards from a friend's home near Cranberry Lake, NY. And had one run right across the road in front of us up there. It was your calm demeanor, matter of fact presentation and your very apparent knowledge and expertise that grabbed me. I find it difficult to almost impossible watch most video "reviews". I am also a knife collector. I cannot stand the gimmicks, catchphrases, etc. Or 20 minutes of hearing how "cool" something is and no mention of function or performance. I really enjoyed this. One of my favorite gun reviewers, Jeff Quinn of Gunblast passed away about 10 years ago. He presented the same way you do. I learned a lot from this video. Be safe. 😊
Thanks for the kind words. Being compared to Jeff Quinn is an honor.
So DGF in upstate New York tell yall the same bullshit about mountain Lions not being there as they tell us down here in Virginia. I've seen mountain lions here in southwest virginia 3 different times in 3 different places.
Great video content Dick. Just came across your Channel a few weeks ago and after watching a few vids immediately Subscribed.
I’m in the northeast, but the same basic bullet construction apples to Blacks as does Browns or Grizz, hard cast penetration and shot placement makes the difference…. As does awareness of your surroundings, bear spray and bear bells ( in my area).
We’ve got big Blacks doing garbage can raids frequently, and the Arlo Cameras on my property show plenty of big hungry critters.
When we’re out on the patio at night I’ve got either a G36 or a G30S loaded with Buffalo Bore 45+P Outdoorsman 255 HCFP @ 925fps.
Same thing when we flyfish the streams, chest rig with one of the Glocks.
Thanks for the subscription! Sounds like you're well armed for Br'er Bear.
Very informative video, Dick. Thanks for producing this video. Glad to hear you recommend the 10mm for bears. I always thought 10mm was a little light for grizzlies. Nice to know the 10mm will work.
Kim Pippin
I am an Alaskan and a professional AK hunting guide that does brown bear hunts so with the extreme ignorance that you have why not explain to me why not one AK hunting guide and myself would ever be so stupid to be using any handgun for these bears?
Or go watch the UA-cam Brown bear hunts on UA-cam then count how many bear hunters are using 10 mm home defense handguns or any handgun?
The 10 mm has only 1/2 the power of the old 30-30 win and no one would ever call a 30-30 a brown bear gun.
Us experiences guides require the clients to bring not less than a 338 win mag for brown bear hunts.
@@lurebenson7722 Thank you for sharing the truth about Griz requirements. Some folks are gonna get in trouble with these puny semi autos etc...
@@arnenelson4495 When a lie becomes told over and over sooner or later morons start to believe that lie and that is what is happening in these bear handgun videos.
Try asking these ignorant idiots making the video or commenting we use handguns on Alaskan bears to show you photos of then with dead AK bears they killed with weak handguns, they can't do it because none of them have ever been to Alaska.
Good info just before Huckleberry season in Montana..
Saw a video of an attacking moose some years ago. Looked like the guy pulled a glock 19 ( I may be wrong about the model). He shot a semi rapid 5-8 bullets and the moose keeled over quite fast.
I remember that video.
Great informative video thanks for posting. I've been using a similar design holster for my 1911 in 45 Super thats been around a long time. Its the M7 shoulder holster designed for tankers in WWII and its great for backpacking, hunting any kind of strenuous outdoor activity. Like you mention its keep the gun up and not hitting brush as you travel, but it also places the gun weight at your center chest which will not detract from critical balance situations as will if you have a gun on a leg holster or on one side. Its like the design you have but it does have a securing strap with a button to connect to your belt - which really makes it the most stable holster for outdoors I've been able to find....and I have a box full of new holsters that didnt work to prove it lol. The outdoor holster test I developed as a result is this. Put on the holster with the loaded gun secure as if you were carrying it. Now while marching in place get your knees up as high as you can to your chest to simulate hiking up extremely steep country. If the holster is going to bother you while moving this will let you know - without ruining your trip!
Good advice. I tried an M7 holster for a while, but felt I needed a strap around the back for more security. The chest rig gives that extra bit of security I like. What I need - still looking - is a combination binoculars/pistol chest rig to kill two birds with one stone.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I'd agree 100%. I think you might be referring to the M3 or M5 holster which is the shoulder strap only. M7 has the strap around the back, shoulder and belt loop secure strap. I think they have the M9 version now, but so far the M7 is working - thanks for the great vid!
@@leveractiongypsy1848 You're probably right, the rig I had was a copy my buddy made of his dad's WWII holster. Glad you liked the video.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I just moved from Montana where I lived in Grizzly bear country for a couple years. I had a mountain lion scream at me in the deep woods out in the Cabinet Mountains too lol. You start getting interested in serious handgun considerations and ammunition that will do the job, so vids like yours always get my attention!
Great video Deputy. Thank you. Have a safe trip.
I’ve shot a 460 with a long barrel. Hurts enough that I have no desire to carry a short barrel one. Good assessment overall. I like a 357 with 180 grain hard cast or 10mm with the HSM 200 grain fmj. Chest rigs are the best. Add bear spray to a good handgun and you’re fully equipped. Only thing I’d disagree with is that if we hunted grizzly, then they’d be afraid of people. Might help very slightly, but certainly not where most grizzly conflicts occur around the park. Thanks
I have been a hunter most of my life and 6 years as a professional hunter.
This would be one of the best videos I have watched.
I thank yiu very much.
Thank you.
Outstanding video! Very informative. Much appreciated.
This was one of the best informed video’s on the 1911. Appreciate you knowledge . I agree with your double tap method for any circumstance . I am considering your advice for bullet selection and information on pistol ramps . I had one pistol sent back to factory for that very problem. I thought I was being picky until now. Thanks !
Glad it was useful.
I watched a video of two fellows who had a full size Grizzly mounted on a target board which was mounted on a line between two trees , one hunter pull the line for the charging Grizzly to come to the armed hunter as fast as he could while the hunter fired at the head of the Grizzly charging !
It was very interesting!! Neither hunter hit the bears head with every shot !
Keep in mind the Grizzly target is not in motion up and down !
But I thought it was pretty neat idea myself !!
I carry my Glock 20 10mm and my 45/70 when I'm in Montana, Idaho, or Wyoming. Sometimes my 454 casull but 10mm is plenty for black bear and I even carry it for grizzly to . Also my Glock 21 in 40 super configuration 40 super is a great round that's hard to get though. I use hard cast and extreme penatrators solid copper. I have all after market kkm barrels in my Glocks for hard cast. We only have black bear here in the smokies in tn so 10mm and 9mm would do fine here
This is the info I have been looking for. I currently have a Springfield XDM 9mm, 7 inch barrel. I’m gearing up and planning a journey/adventure in a year and I have thought about getting a 10mm as a primary and keep the 9 as a back up. The 9mm has a 19 round magazine. I am wanting a 10mm on a 1911 frame. It’s something about a 1911 that fits my hand so nicely. Thank you very much on your insight on this. Just what I needed!
Glad it was useful.
Your 100% rite on the aftermarket bbl for glocks. I run a 6.62" alfa wolf 460R barrel on my G21 I converted to 460 Rowland and the same in a 10mm glock that I run hot extreme penetrators in . But the chamber is better supported for heavy loads
Nice thing about the 357 is that you can get 7 or even 8 rounds in a 44 sized platform.
I prefer the G40 with 15+1.
I love how you phrase the important part: It can do its job if you do YOUR job. That's the part that gets left out of most of these discussions and comparisons.
Also, that's some nice shooting. No, it's not target shooting. It's rapid shooting and it's impressive.
115 grain lehigh solid copper at over 1700 fps factory loaded. Confirmed via chronograph. Edit. 10mm cartridge
G40 is my woods gun as well. I live in prime Grizzly country. You do not mess around with these creatures, they’ll kill you no time flat if they feel the need. I use buffalo bore hard cast. Either 180/220 grain. Hope I never need it!
Even if you just had a 6 shooter thats more ammo than you'll be able to get off. Max 3 rounds. Lucky to get more than 1.
I don't generally comment on videos but this one warrants it. This is probably the best bear defense video I have ever seen. I like how he has thought of the bear running at you and having to compensate aiming down as it approaches. Most people won't be able to train enough for that scenario to make an accurate shot. I have opted using his double tap technique then transitioning down to one knee to finish with follow up shots. You will be on a level field with the approaching bear and won't have to compensate. When the bear gets to close you can roll to the side and continue engaging or your already in a balled up position and will hopefully take less damage from the bear. My only concern is losing your gun once the bear hits you. It would be beneficial to somehow have your gun tethered to you so once the bear takes a break mauling you, you can still find your gun and continue the fight. I just haven't found the best idea on how to achieve this. Thank you for the great video, not poo pooing on certain cartridges, and giving great opinions, which after a lot of research most of them if not all are really just facts at this point.
Thanks for the kind words. Several commenters mentioned a kneeling position to get a better shot angle and less need to lead the bear ... it also hampers your ability to dive sideways away from a bear's angle of attack. Neither technique is necessarily wrong, just good ideas to think through. I just got back from a week bear hunting with a buddy in Wyoming grizzly country with no problems. See my video I posted yesterday on the hunt and thanks for the comment!
William Shatner insurance commercial, diving across car hood, “take two”.
Oh, and OP, thanks for your time and energy. I’ll “like” your video
To attach a pistol to yourself find a confident gunsmith and have him attach a lanyard loop. Lanyards have been attached to military pistol since well since there have been military pistols. I believe the military to this day still has lanyard loops on its pistols.
Thanks for telling me about that copper bullet I used to read about the hunts in Africa. They are not allowed to use any soft lead, it is against the wall over there. And also that thing about the using of a flat nose. Very good information thank you.
Thanks for the kind words.
Great video, perhaps the best I’ve seen on the subject. Thank you!
I’ve read a study detailing what guns were used in bear attacks… and it showed shot placement and preparation/practice counted far more than raw power. One brown was stopped by a single shot from a .38, which astonished me. Not that a .38 is enough “bear gun”, but it worked. That time.
If you’re talking about the articles on ammoland, they show a 98% effectiveness on bears if I remember correctly. Regardless of caliber. A guide in Alaska killed a huge grizzly with his 9mm before it could attack his clients. Those articles are a must read for anyone interested in bear defense.
@@HoffnerPrecisionbut they also showed a whole cylinder of 357 fail to stop a bear of course a well trained man with hardcast 9mm will have a higher survival rate than an untrained man with an elephant gun
@@HoffnerPrecision That guide in Alaska was phil Shoemaker. Killed an agressive brown bear graveyard dead with a 9mm shooting buffalo bore hard cast bullets. Many, many shots, but he got the job done with what he had. He took the 9mm instead of his magnum revolver because they hadn't seen any browns around and were just fishing waiting on the plane to get to their camp. Brown bear came in and he did what was needed to keep his clients safe.
@kevinhart46 thats a big IF
@@rickyflinchum2909 what's funny is federal makes a hardcast more powerful than buffalo bore but either way 9mm can work against bear I wpuldnt go for it because I have more expierence with 44 mag and 357 mag but if you're one hell of a shot with 9mm then do it
Arthritis made me give up the 44 and rely on the 357. Precision from a smaller caliber trumps a bigger caliber that hurts a lot to shoot. Just my thinking.
Great video...... I solo camp for 7-10 days every year in the deep woods of North Central PA. The area has LOTS of Black Bear, and some of the biggest ever (state record was around 700 lbs). I started off with a Ruger Security Six with 180 hard cast...... Then I upgraded to a Taurus tracker in .44 mag loaded with Underwood Copper extreme penetrators...... This year I upgraded again to the 10mm (M&P 10mm) loaded with extreme penetrators. 15 rounds Is better than 5 or 6...... I have seen 2 black bear in my lifetime and both times all I saw was their rear ends as they ran away scared..... I am worried about the one who is real hungry and is not afraid of humans..... I always figured if I had a close encounter with one it would be while Im sleeping in camp. They say when a Black Bear doesn't run from you and heads in your direction it means to eat you. Bear spray is known to not work as well on Black Bear as it does on Browns..... I assume that is because if you get to that level of escalation that you need to use it, the black bear has decided hes gonna get you.
Excellent video. I have very little technical knowledge of firearms and ammo, but I have a good understanding of biology, anatomy, scale, physics, trajectory etc. Everything you said seemed to make a tonne of sense to me and I thank you for a really interesting, really well-presented video. Have subscribed.
Thank you!
Good advice. I'm impressed in your holster design and would be interested in seeing how you put it together.
I have a D. Johnson Alaska chest holster for my Redhawk .44, best holster I've ever used.
I replaced my Diamond D with a Galco Great Alaskan chest holster for my S&W 629 Classic 6.5.. More comfortable and a much better fit for my revolver
The style is often referred to as a Kenai holster. There are a fair number of variants available
Excellent video. I’ve been saying almost the same things you’ve been saying now for some 25 years. I went from a 4” S&W model 29 in Alaska, to a Freedom Arms .454 Casull, to a Gen 3 Glock 20, Gen 4 Glock 20 and just picked up a Gen 5, but I’m sticking with Gen 3 for bear country hunts. KKM barrels have been excellent performers for me for years now, loads with 210gr or 220gr lead hardcast. I prefer the 210 grainers. As far as .45acp…. Nope. I don’t care what bullet one loads with, it’s not a round for bear. I’d rather carry a Glock 29 with a KKM barrel and it’s 10-round magazine before a .45acp. Those Lehigh defense (Wilson) bullets dont impress me much as I don’t see them penetrating as deep as a heavy lead hardcast bullet. There’s several UA-cam videos demonstrating that fact.
I have a custom built Colt Delta Elite by Terry Tussey (RIP). However I like the higher capacity Glock 20 best for fast shooting of a charging bear.
Elmer Keith always said a hard cast pistol bullet would out penetrate almost anything else. But, the Lehigh bullets do drive in very deep. The Extreme Penetrator version goes deepest, but even the Extreme Defense version out penetrates a conventional FMJ. Black Hills Ammo is doing the most in-depth terminal testing out there and they chose the ED version for both the 10mm and .45-70 Honey Badger loads. They place heavy buffalo hide and shoulder-knuckle bones in the penetration path and still get deep, impressive cavities in gelatin.
I recently bought a Gen 4 model 40 Glock. I'm testing the new Holosun solar charged sight for it & getting good results so far but still not sure I want to trust electronic sights. Where I live the concern is wild or feral pigs so I still need the heavy cast bullets but at least local law enforcement is supportive & even encourages getting rid of them.
My question is, other than price, why do you pick the KKM barrel & not a Barsto?
@@bjdog42 Barsto is great, but it requires hand lapping the breach end and ensure that it remains square, in order to make it fit and that is somewhat time consuming for me. If one doesn’t have the personal know-how to do it themselves, then a qualified gunsmith must do it. I’ve done it three times with Apex barrels on three different M&P 2.0 firearms. But, I also have experience with KKM barrels and I believe their “drop-in” barrels are equally superb. I have 6 or 7 (lost count) different KKM barrels for various Glock models that I’ve bought and used over the years and it’s just easier to use them than Barsto. I can’t tell the difference in accuracy, so I now just stick with KKM for simplicity sake. KKM is literally a “plug n play” barrel.
The only reason I use KKM or Barsto is for the full chamber support when shooting heavy lead hardcast. Otherwise for defense, I prefer Glock factory barrels.
@Colt10mm Security that's what I needed to know. Thank you sir.
@@bjdog42 👍
Man you have deeeep knowledge in this area. Great video Sir!
Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for the good information. Keep you the great work.
10mm= it'll never happen, but I'll actually carry this, so that's the best choice for me. That's probably the way I would go but a revolver will still go off if you have a Bear on top of you and stick the barrel against it, so there's a few ways to look at it. I'm with you the big bore rifle is the first defense (after using your head), then maybe the light weight Smith revolvers or a Glock 10mm. 15 rounds sounds really good when scared but it would be a toss up for me either way. Nice video.
Advantage of .44 Magnum is it's been around for almost 70 years. Every gun shop I've ever been in carries it. Can't say the same for the more exotic rounds.
For me, been shooting it for years, am comfortable with it. Need to find recipe and drill for producing these heat treated lead bullets
Making your own heat treated bullets can be done, but since I used so few I used to buy them from Beartooth bullets, but they are out of business now. I hear good things about the bullets from grizzlycartridge.com
Well done video, some of the best practical advice and insight without the BS others try selling.
Thanks for the kind words.
You obviously have great experience as a hunter and law man.
many thanks for protection tips against powerful wild charges.
I use both the glock 20 and 44 mag smiths with copper or brass solids.
Im thinking most people would benefit from diagrams of the lethal
target areas on various animals.
very excellent presentation.
Look for the book: "The Perfect Shot North America" by Craig Boddington - published by Safari press. It shows the anatomy and aiming points for all North American big game.
With an auto, you may have only one shot, so there is that. Any auto can fail at any time. It’s just a fact. Against a charging Grizzly bear, that’s it. In fact, I just watched a video where the guide was attacked and the person he was guiding, couldn’t clear the Glock 20. The guide was eaten. His client ran and survived. If that was a revolver, it could have had a different outcome. I carry an auto most of the time, but if I were in Grizzly territory, I would carry a magnum revolver. If I was carrying an auto, I would suggest a 460 Roland or at least a 45 Super for an auto. I have lots of bear where I live, including in my own yard, but they are only black bears, but they attack our pets all the time, including my neighbors who’s dogs were mauled in front of them. I now carry a 45 Super with 255 hard cast or a 200 grain 357 magnum revolver, all with hard cast. Good luck 🍀 to all.
Do you think you can hit a charging Grizz shooting a magnum revolver double action? Most people would be lucky to get about 1.5 shots off before the bear is on them.
I'll take the firepower and single action of an auto. That second shot from 7 feet away may make all the difference.
But, like Kodiakkeith says, you may never see the bear ambush. I'm probably carrying just so I can shoot a bear that is attacking my fishing buddy, and my buddy is carrying so he can shoot when I'm attacked.
@@justsmy5677If you get blindsided and the bear or other large animal has you on the ground, the autoloader is at a huge disadvantage because of a likelihood of being pushed out of battery, stovepiping, mag release inadvertently getting pressed in the scuffle, etc.
In such situation, the 16+1 or similar pistol becomes a single shot pistol, or not even a shot at all.
Many people seem to envision these scenarios where the bear starts out like 100 yards away, then makes a beeline for the person, and they get to do a mag dump at the oncoming bear. In reality, sad as it is, people who get attacked are typically surprised at close distance, often from the flank or rear.
Regardless, something that continually perplexes me is how, in these sorts of comment threads, people conflate "shot placement" and a sort of "volley fire" into a single praxis. Someone will say that lighter bullets from the autoloader are fine "because shot placement," and then often that same person will include in the same sentence something to the effect, "I'd rather be able to get X amount of shots off so I'll take the 15/16/20 round capacity, thank you very much." But those two ideas are at odds with each other. If it's about shot placement, with two or three shots, then wouldn't a more effective cartridge make more sense? If it's about a hail of bullets/mag dump, and at range to boot (considering the "volley fire" approach isn't going to work within a couple of seconds time window anyway, i.e. distance=time), then that's really an argument for a carbine, or other repeating or selfloading rifle , not a pistol.
The two ideas don't really harmonize with each other at all.
@@LibertysetsquareJack - I see your points.
My thinking is…I have never been very accurate shooting a large revolver double action. I currently do not even own a revolver.
If a bear has surprised me and is on top of me rendering my Glock useless, odds are my revolver is also useless or will be in another half second, or the bear has already taken a swipe at me and torn a limb off!
The Glock is for situations where you are fishing in relatively open spaces and you see the bear coming up stream toward you.
My days of being deep in the bush or camping in the wilderness are over. I’ll be camping in the truck camper or motel!!
I’ll also have an 18 inch shotgun handy when practical.
Cheers!
@@justsmy5677 For open spaces especially, which afford time and movement, a rifle or shotgun is definitely preferred. A pistol is afterall, a sidearm, and isn't a proper replacement for a long arm. That's one of the biggest dangers with the tricked-out-autoloader thing that people have going nowadays, that just because it has a large capacity magazine and a (relatively) powerful cartridge, it becomes envisioned as a sort of do-it-all weapon. The old knowledge in Alaska (and in the American frontier throughout time, just speaking generally) is that the pistol is a last resort weapon or for situations where the long arm is truly unmanageable.
The idea that a pistol is *the* defensive weapon a person has in "the bush" is very recent. It seems that the proliferation of bowhunting, and fishing in more remote areas, has contributed much to this, because people don't want to pack more than their bow or fishing kit. An aging demographic, easy mechanization (e.g. "side by sides" didn't even exist twenty years ago), and a different lifestyle of the demographic today versus two generations ago are probably all factors here, but that's another topic in itself. Anyway, a long arm is seen as "unmanageable" or impractical today in these situations. But again, really, the idea in Alaska from the old timers is that you shouldn't be out in the bush without a good rifle or shotgun, no matter what you're up to out there. If a person doesn't see it as manageable or practical to carry the extra weight of a long arm, the old idea was that's an indicator that the person shouldn't be out there then, at all.
If a person can see a bear curiously approaching from way across a sandbar or way down river, they should have time to get to a good lever action or shotgun that they have on shore, if they are waded into the water fishing, for example. Having the long arm back at the RV/"toy hauler" where the side by sides were disembarked, in the side by side parked hundreds of yards away on a trail head, or not having a long arm for the trip at all, is a huge strategic mistake that unfortunately has become de rigeur nowadays. No matter how great 10mm Auto or whatever may be deemed to be, it pales to 12 gauge slugs or buck-and-ball, a 45-70 lever action, or a 30-30 lever action.
That said, if all that is practical at the moment is a pistol, if a person has the time (open space) to see a bear approaching, they have time to draw proper aim, and can use single-action on a revolver. The revolver doesn't have to be fired frantically, let alone in double-action, as a matter of natural law or something. The virtue of a revolver in such situation is that it can hit with more authority than something like a 10mm Auto: cartridges such as 480 Ruger, 454 Casull, 45 Colt (especially with fully modern loads), 44 Magnum, etc. are just simply far more effective on large animals.
On the other side of things, if the pistol has to come into play at close distance because the long arm fails, the person has lost the long arm or it's been made inoperable in the attack, or the person has been ambushed by the animal, the revolver has the virtue of being far less likely to get put out of action than the autoloader, along the lines of what I mentioned in the first post.
A failure to fire on a revolver from a hard primer or dud doesnt require racking like on an autoloader, but simply another pull of the trigger on double-action or actuation of the the hammer on single action. Failure to extract, double feeding and stovepiping are all issues that autoloaders can have, even if everything is otherwise optimal, let alone shooting from awkward positions, i.e. pistol height axis isn't perpendicular to the earth and/or wrist/shooting arm are not locked in proper alignment. Revolvers can "cycle" and fire follow up shots regardless because the casings are not being extracted at all as part of the operation of the action.
An autoloader can be pushed out of battery by the animal's mass. Mag release and manual safeties can be easily and inadvertently actuated in a grappling situation. Many autoloaders have disconnector interrupt with the mag release, which means failure to fire even if the magazine is not lost. Autoloaders' back-and-forth slide action is much more prone to grab animal fur and become bound/jammed than a revolver would be to not index from the same. Etc., etc.
There are numerous considerations, but the bottom line is that it is very likely in a blindsided, ambushed or otherwise full contact scenario to only get one or two shots off with the autoloader that is then inoperable, or has a malfunction that needs remedial action and such action cannot be executed, whereas the revolver has anywhere from five to eight shots that can still be delivered, making the revolver, in de facto terms, the "higher capacity" option. Plus, and returning to the earlier point, the revolver has potential for those shots to be considerably more powerful than what something like a 10mm Glock is delivering: bullets that are up to about twice as heavy, with 40-60% greater total frontal area, larger meplats, sharper meplats, etc., and the excess "muzzle blast" from the chamber-forcing cone-gap hitting the animal in close contact to boot.
So when the revolver is chosen by people as the sidearm for bear and other large animal protection, it is usually done in light of the overall context, which includes the idea of 1) the nature of bear and other animal attacks, 2) packing an appropriate long arm and 3) the conception of the pistol as a sidearm, the later of which means resort to the pistol to begin with is likely to happen in scenarios very far from ideal.
My main point being, is that the "revolver versus autoloader" debate in popular circles, regards bear protection and such, is almost always devoid of accounting for overall context. People setup training scenarios in practice (or even just in the mind) that have confirmation bias towards the high capacity autoloader, like standing square on to a target and shooting as many rounds into a "high points" area as possible within a few seconds time allotment: such a drill will show the autoloader to be superior essentially by default, which just feeds back into the confirmation bias. Drills that disfavor the autoloader in general, let alone are designed to address specific weaknesses, don't seem to be constructed, or even thought of.
@@LibertysetsquareJack - agreed. My plan is a pistol on a chest rig and a shotgun slung on my person and depending on circumstances the shotgun on the riverbank close at hand while fishing.
I fully understand the limitations of an auto loading pistol, but also see some limitations of a revolver. I’m not too optimistic about my chances of hitting a rapidly moving bear at 20-40 feet with a double action revolver. And would also have reservations about firing a warning shot toward a bear if I only had 6 shots before I had to reload (not to mention revolver speed loaders and the fact that the slowest bear on Earth would be on top of you before you could reload).
Shotgun for the primary weapon. Pistol on chest rig as secondary weapon.
The fact that we have even thought through this scenario is more than some folks have done, which increases our odds a bit.
Stay safe out there👍
I’ve been bluff charged twice in my life. Knock on wood. And luckily never had a committed bear coming at me. But I’ve heard stories from others that said that the sheer speed of the animal almost made them stand there ‘amazed’ for a moment… before their fight or flight instinct even appeared. Bears are, as my kid likes to say, ‘stoopid fast’.
Best tutorial on bear defense I’ve EVER come across. I’m definitely grateful, and the people who’s life you may have just saved by teaching them a bit, will I’d imagine be grateful as well.
Something my Dad used to tell me seems worthy of passing along: “They say ‘aim small - miss small’. Well, TRAIN small - miss even smaller. Hopefully.” 😉
Again… well done, sir. Thank you.
Dick, that thumb joint arthritis pain can be remedied with a thumb joint implant. I just had one done in February. It is a fairly simple procedure that takes a little over an hour. I was awake during the procedure and I was home 90 minutes afterward. They expose the thumb joint with a small incision, cut away a section of the thumb bone and replace it with a stainless implant. They scrape away the arthritis. I had 7 bone spurs there too which were ground away. The recovery took 12 weeks of hand therapy. It was still a bit swollen for a month after the therapy was over but since then it is pain free and feels like it did when I was a young man. It wasn't in my shooting hand for pistol. I still managed to get to the range every week though I was limited to revolvers for a while until I could rack a slide with my right hand again. It did hinder rifle shooting though. I shoot pistol left handed and rifle right handed and the surgery was on my right hand. I was back reloading 2 weeks after the surgery but I needed 2 hands to crank the press.
I use the Alaskan guide chest holster, and the revolver was excessively tight also. I wrapped my revolver in four layers of saran wrap, wetted the inside of the leather with a sponge, put the the wrapped revolver in, waited 1 day. Fit is what I want now, one hand draw and reholster, but won't fall out held upside down and shook. I carry the Buffalo bore 300 grain solid in my 454 Casull Taurus Raging Judge Magnum, with the 5Star speedloaders.