If you offered me the Rolex for free or the Grand Seiko GMT Spring Drive for $1k USD I would gladly pay the grand. Every time I walk into a Rolex AD and hear how absurd the words coming out of their mouths sound... as if such lunacy has become normal to them (Stockholm syndrome?) the more I wince when I hear what people pay for this mass produced brand. It's no longer about horology it becomes trying to impress the next worker bee. But all sincerely, my deepest regrets to those who received their Rolex as an family heirloom, at least your departed family member had the sense to buy at semi rational prices whilst keeping their dignity and self respect as retail shoppers.
That's exactly what it is. Rolex have never innovated and, if you removed Rolex from the history of watcmaking, it basically wouldn't make a difference. Their watches are nicely finished but they're nothing special for engineering, technology or art. It's all just marketing.
I would, too. But it was not like that before. Nowadays I do not consider Rolex as a watch for watch lovers but an investment pieces for those who buy to collect in safes to resell later (hoping for increase in value). Why would I spend 15k on YM42 when titanium SBGA463 costs new 5k?
Except that hype and waiting lists are created by consumers and not manufacturers. It is simple demand versus supply... just like homes in very desirable areas. Rolex sold 1.2 million watches in 2023. That is all that they can make. They have been doing what they do for decades. We the people want more... and some consumers are flippers that create inflated prices in the secondary market.
You forgot a few comparisons: - Rolex is impossible to get at retail, while you can go into a store and come out with a Grand Seiko in a few minutes - 90% of Rolexes you see on people are fake, and some fakes are so good that you can't tell the difference without having an expert look at the movement
@markhighfill when I wear a Rolex Submariner everyone asks is that real? That's why I never wear my Rolex, I do daily wear a Grand Seiko and own an insane Credor with an enamel dial. People ask, what's that? What's that is better than is it real?
Grand Seiko is a watch maker first and marketeers second. Rolex is marketeers first. Innovation is the top criteria of high horology IMO. Rolex is like the Timex of the luxury brand watches.
Rolex was the first to put a date on the watches,the first to make a GMT,first day and Date makes the best diver watch ever and the world loves them. What has GS done? a little more polishing and quartz movements It doesn't matter how you paint it if has any kind of quartz on the watches is still a quartz watch. Rolex is the watch for real watch fans and the watch for world leaders.
@@luispadilla2212 Show me a high beat Rolex movement with 80 hrs reserve that looks half as good as the GS 9SA5 movement that was designed, fabricated, assembled and regulated in-house. That’s what separates a watch maker from a jewelry maker. I’ll make it even easier for you. Show any Swiss watch maker that makes a 10 hz movement with 80 hrs reserve.
Introduce me to the person who expresses the feeling of "getting lost in" or getting "pulled into" a Rolex dial. I thought the GS Snowflake was too fat for a non-dive watch and the power meter messed up the symmetry of the dial. The first time I held one in my hands, it felt hypnotic.
Under "innovations", you left out one of Rolex's most important new ideas. They were the first watchmaker to come up with the idea of telling you that you're not yet worthy to purchase one of their watches, and to join a waitlist if you hoped to maybe be allowed to buy one in the future.
Grand Seiko is innovating in technology and artisan craftsmanship, Rolex has a name brand. I feel if GS could bring out a 40mm Diver and GMT options with a good bracelet they could beat Rolex.
I don't own either watch brand yet, I am a fairly new watch collector. I sport a Tissot Visodate powermatic 80 gold dial and a Seiko SPBJ121 Alpinist. Having done a lot of research in starting my collection (which, btw, thank you for all the content and all the insightful comments. It's helped a lot in my education. Love this community), I would say I aspire to own a GS before ever owning a Rolex. Solely for the reason that I started collecting for a beauty of the art form and the engineering in the movement. A Rolex would be cool, but I'd just feel more proud of a GS because of the intentionality behind its inception and what I want my collection to look like.
I had a similar journey, I started with my alpinist, love it. A few days ago I was finally able to get my GS snowflake and looking at the second hand sweep makes me so happy, knowing the spring drive is behind it all takes your pride of ownership to a new level
If there's a way to change for the better it must be *AWM23K* . I had lost all hope with the decisions our big guys make which just keeps their power and imbalance up. Maybe at some point basic people like me and you have to take over, right?
Superb video. But, let me share this here knowing it can uplift someone that comes across it. Effective financial management made me rich and it is all you need if you want to build a strong financial future tomorrow. I started with 1000USD, 3 years ago I invested in a diversified stock market and fast forward to now I am worth 500000USD and am currently finishing my 8 unit apartments. I'm only 35 years old. Diversified stock investments have always proven to be very profitable, especially with the help of experts.
I don’t get the hate for GS bracelets, to me it’s fine no complaints. I like the size and the non taper is perfectly fine. It’s as nice as any other bracelet for the price.
Its an ok bracelet. I do prefer the swiss bracelets in terms of design. Besides the design, Grand Seiko bracelets are high quality and well polished, I just think the design is a little plane. i do like the Rolex Jubilee.
You guys are in denial. GS bracelets are awful! Glad if they fit you and you like them, but I have given up on the brand now and the bracelets are a big reason.
@@dannysimenauer5745 I guess, but most of my watches don’t have micro adjustments. Never bothered me. I did try on a Tudor BB pro and might buy one soon and yea the T-fit clasp was cool. But honestly I don’t really see someone using it that much to make it worth it. I have my wedding watch I sized 7 years ago and have never had a problem. It doesn’t have micro adjustments. Would you really sit there every day or several times a day and adjust your watch?
But on the Rolex side it’s better case, better bracelet, and better overall execution. GS has amazing tech and components, but it’s like shoving the highest end materials into a laptop. You’ll have the most powerful tank that is impractical to bring around so no one uses it as a laptop. Rolex is like apple. They have marketing, great products, not the most innovative, and they know how to put it all into a seamless package. If GS could just put their watches in a package that isn’t oversized or with cheap bracelets, then they’d be perfect. A watch is only as good as I want to wear it, and I’ve owned a GS diver that I sold bc it just never felt comfortable.
@@seanlinehan1136 I have a SBGX061 and an Explorer II and between them I can't tell the difference between the bracelets. GS bracelet is so close to Rolex's in style and comfort that I'm surprised there isn't a lawsuit. HOWEVER Rolexes clasp is leagues ahead of the considerably more basic GS clasp. The GS strap has no micro-adjustment or extension links on it (we all have pesky bloated wrist days) and however safe the clasp is on the GS the fliplock on the Rolex makes me feel like you'd need to take my arm off with a chainsaw to get it off me. Finishing however the GS is so ahead it is mad. I would also argue that even though GS's cases are bigger and quite thick in some cases (pun intended) there is no quality different between GS cases and Rolex cases. I just wish the cases were smaller.
Go Tom......nice to see the face of the man behind the witty cynicism. I'm pretty sure you're in the upload of the journey to Switzerland but nice to finally get some closure on this matter after Andrew's unveiling early in the year. Nico Leonard has a lot to f3ckin answer for now that you're both unmasked. If it's alright I'm going to continue listening to both of your utterances with my eyes closed. Imagination Andrew & Tom are what I'm used to....
I own two Grand Seiko, the SBGX263 quartz and the SBGE271 Spring Drive. I can honestly say both watches are beautiful and pleasing to wear. Very comfortable and I can stare at them all day. I almost don’t want to wear them much because of afraid to scratch them😂. So I end up wearing my Omega SMP 300 most of the time . Not that’s it’s not a great watch but seems like it can take a beating. I can’t speak for Rolex , not yet an owner. Hopefully soon.
Think you've hit the nail on the head there, but not in the way you intended. Whereas most enthusiasts will know what Daytona, Datejust etc are and look like, reeling off GS model codes doesn't resonate as well. I couldn't tell you what a SBGX263 or a SBGE271 look like or which view of rural Japan they represent. That said, I have a SBGA469 but not a Rolex and they've just discontinued the only one I like -the Milgauss
I know what you mean! I bought SBGP017, it is a mere quartz....but I am afraid to wear it, the 44GS case is so shiny and "mirrory" I do not want to leave fingerprints on it, not to mention hairline scratches! And the dial....it is my exibition piece that I wear for myself, at home, for a few minutes, and put carefully back in the box. 🙂
Just my 2 cents or whatever, I was driven by the hype about how wonder a Rolex was and I purchased an Explorer 2 at the begining of last year, well that feeling of "I have a Rolex" didn't last that long and I sold it 2 months later and would never have another one. I love so many of the GS Dials and the finish is sublime. At the moment I cannot decide but will probably go the GS Snowflake - the dial is just so captivating to look at and finish just excellent
to sum up, all the ancestors of GS employee whispering to their ears "do your best, keep innovating, be creative, be artistic and finnish the hell out of that watch" while Rolex manager yell over the loudspeaker "make more money".
I love and own watches from both brands (GS SBGA413 and a Rolex GMT Master II). Both have pros and cons - I wouldn’t necessarily say one is better than the other! I love how the Grand Seiko completely flies under the radar and is therefore more understated. The dial is undeniably more interesting - that's what initially attracted me to the brand. The case finishing is superior to Rolex. It’s just a more interesting watch overall that I really enjoy wearing from time to time. However, one downside of the funky/interesting dial is that it’s far less versatile than my other watches. Frankly, I hope Grand Seiko doesn’t get too popular because I really like how much of an unknown it is to most people (apart from watch enthusiasts that is). Hands down, the Rolex feels more solidly built and the proportions of the watch are just better. The bracelet is way ahead of anything Grand Seiko offers (I have the jubilee). Even little things like the snappy date change or the strong click of the micro extension give the watch a very robust feel. For those reasons, it has become my go-to watch and I have a tough time taking it off. I own more watches than just these two, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the GMT is the only watch in my collection that I’d truly never sell; it’d be a perfect watch for a one-watch collection. For me, the biggest cons are (1) the stigma around Rolex, and (2) how long I had to wait for one to become available (~2 years).
There is no stigma lol. Man up and be proud of your purchases FFS! I personally have no problem waiting a year or two 🤷🏻♂️ Helms have a much longer waiting list!!
A very significant category that was not discussed is wearability comfort. I think that bracelet functionality, quality and comfort, overall weight balance and head thickness is something that Rolex does much better on most models and especially on the sports models.
@@Jeguia85 I wouldn't want a heavy watch. I don't think this is what I have written. I mentioned that the weight balance of Rolex watches is better (in my opinion) than GS.
A Grand Seiko snowflake is the lightest sports watch of that quality I have ever tried on. If Titanium is not light enough for comfort then I don't what it is. However micro adjust is definitely needed on GS. But I always remove the bracelet as soon as I buy a sports watch and replace it with either a paratrooper strap as this is the most precise adjustment possible.
@@FuckPedophileBiden I mean the distribution of weight between the watch head and the bracelet, ensuring it feels well-proportioned and harmonious, neither excessively heavy nor overly light.
GS is definitely better than Rolex, but then Rolex has the world rolling thanks to its marketing techniques. The finishing on GS is simply just on another level. Period.
Without question... Grand Seiko is better engineered, more pleasing to look, and a better story to tell. A pity for those who haven't quite figured it out.
Heres my quick two cents as a very small collector. Rolex blows grand seiko out of the water with its tool/sports watches and grand seiko blows rolex out the water with its dress watches. Those dials on the omiwatari, snowflake etc! Class. For rolex the GMT and submariner are timeless.
Hard to argue that point. However, I feel it is a matter of time before GS put that right. Something is not quite right with their sports watches, but soon to be rectified. the Rolex sub is so iconic and that sells no matter what. Id rather have the new Yachtmaster Titanium though. that thing is awesome
@barrycolmer324. If GS figures out sports watches that'd be the day! I do believe that GS will start having a waitlist for certain models. I'm about to pick up the omiwatari from GS, and I've been on the weightlifting for a pepsi and green bezel sub. We'll see if it ever happens. Every day that passes, I just look at gret market prices lmao.
@@L2snakegold Congrats on the GS Omiwatari, it is truly stunning to both look at and wear. Which one are you going for? I recently picked up the white dial version on bracelet and it is mesmerising. Recently sold my Tudor Pepsi, but the Rolex original would be ace Im sure, although Ive never seen one in the flesh.
@barrycolmer324 the GS I'm going to get is the SBGY007. I was lucky enough to have a watch shop allow me try on a pepsi. Took a picture of it on my wrist. I hope it will help with the manifestation of the watch!
I'm researching my first luxury watch purchase and not even considering Rolex. Grand Seiko is the front runner by far over Omega, IWC and Breitling for aesthetics, price and availability of case sizes under 40mm.
I think Rolex makes very fine watches but I have a problem with the brand itself. It is a watch for nouveau riche people who really are not interested in watches but more to show off. Grand Seikos are very beautiful and extremely high quality but they suffer from ”Seiko” in their brand name. I have both and I wear my Skyflake much more often. But now I have bought few new Omegas and I am very satisfied with them.
agree 100% > the M3 driving flash git being loud at the golf club bar wearing a gold Rolex, someone that has never heard of another swiss brand V's the Shy retiring Jag driving business man having a quiet lunch wearing an A Lange & Söhne
I think both produce high quality products for different customers. A buyer of the skyflake doesn’t have the wants or needs of a buyer looking at a OP. I myself prefer GS to most Rolex models but I have massive respect for Rolex’ accuracy and their design language.
I own and love both brands. For me they are just different. The most beautiful watch in my collection is a GS. My holy grail is a Rolex. The type of answer that the obnoxious fanboys cannot understand 🤣.
I'm the lucky owner of an SBGA413 Cherry Blossom time piece. I don't have any words to describe what I see when I'm looking at so many details. BTW, the balance wheel in a spring drive doesn't swing but rotates constantly, and there is no escapement.
Tom! Always great to see Tom! Grand Seiko are watch artisans and innovators first, while Rolex play to the masses and market well. Grand Seiko is for me!
GS doesn't care much about profit margin or at least, it is not a priority. Although they reuse certain dials in new paint, they do push themselves to make art pieces (rather than time pieces) that speak to people. Rolex does. hence, Rolex plays it safe and sells a lot more watches and earns a lot more money.
Seiko has to improve the height of their watches, the bracelett and use some lume. Then we can start comparing. Nice looks are just a part oft the equation. The wearing experience is another part, and thats where rolex exceeds. Cheers
I own seiko sla043J1, and both Rolex sub 114060 and a polar 50th anniversary. and also a GS white birch. And the wearing experience is the same. The Polar and the GS are the best for me. Just depends on your outfit and what you think of what you are wearing. At the beach, of course the divers are kings. Cheers
Shame you didn’t mention the technology and quality of Grand Seiko quartz. A mechanical, spring drive, and quartz Grand Seiko is my holy trinity of watches.
Rolex quality? I have a 16610, 23 years old….still kicking ass. I’ve serviced it 2x….wait, maybe 3 but it gets the most wrist time. I love the rattling bracelet. I’m marveled that it is just as good as it was when it was new. Well, even better IMO because he has withstood all this time. I think trying to compare what Rolex is providing versus what GS does, is not really something to fairly compare. I have a SMP300, love it as well but it scratches a different design itch than my Rolexes (and Zeniths, Tudor). I’ve been eyeing a couple GS models, they scratch a different itch for me though. I will love it as well when I pull the trigger.
I've also heard some people say that the name Grand Seiko doesn't have any cache'. Lexus wasn't named Grand Toyota and Acura wasn't named Grand Honda. I own a Rolex Day-Date and am currently awaiting the arrival of a Grand Seiko SBGA493 (red dial) Spring Drive this month. I'm looking forward to becoming hypnotized by the "new smooth sweep technology."
For a value and quality ratio Grand Seiko is the much better buy, it has a great history too but as mentioned the lack of world availability for GS watches has held them back a lot compared to how world renowned Rolex is. I don't own a GS yet but I have been in love with the snowflake for a very long time especially with the dial and the captivating spring drive! The only luxury watch I own is a Vintage two tone Datejust, I went vintage because I didn't feel like spending £9,000+ on a modern one :') so I got a great vintage for under £4,000!
Gotta say i prefer to see your faces, communication is 90% non verbal and the disembodied voices were cool and all, now it feels more personal, better connected with our dear hosts.
People who may have some issue with the name Seiko because of its shop mall models...Mercedes Benz sells the S class, Maybach spec and plenty of high end AMG models. It also sells the C class, and the A class. You can get on a Mercedes bus and drive past Mercedes delivery vans and trucks... Doesn't seem to hurt the MB brand that much...
I much prefer Rolex even though I want to love GS. GS are still often too big and have rubbish bracelets. I also personally prefer the rounded design of Rolex over the straight lines of GS. However the GS>Rolex when it comes to polishing and dial design. Some recent Rolex dials are laughable. One thing I want to see from GS is silicon hairsprings.
Rolex is best at marketing, GS is better at everything else. You forgot to mention the widespread problems with Rolex 32xx movements. Many develop low amplitude leading to poor timekeeping and to date there has not been a fix, despite this series of movements being around for many years now.
I prefer GS over Rolex because I can go in a GS shop, ask a seller who doesn't look at me like if I was a maggot, try a couple of watches, buy one and go back home with my box. I can't do that with a Rolex.
GS can't match Rolex "branding" because they don't have just a few recognizable model lines. People eventually learn what an Explorer, Oyster Perpetual, or Submariner are, but nobody knows all hundred (? just a guess, which makes my point) or so GS models. There's Spring Drive and Hi-Beat (and mechanical and quartz), but those labels tell you nothing about what any given watch looks like. Even the cases vary from model to model. Only us watch nerds know how a "Snowflake" differs from an "Omniwatari" or a "Shunbun". Is this good or bad? Who knows - I'm no marketing guru - but GS seems to sell them as fast as they can make them, just like Rolex does. I do think that Rolex's limited models contribute to the lunacy of the secondary market, whereas the great variety of GS models makes hoarding and flipping a more difficult enterprise: very few are in such demand that market prices exceed RRP.
I’m stuck in a cabin in Borgo di Vagli Italy. It hasn’t stopped raining in 4 days. If it weren’t for these videos I feel I would lose my mind. Get me out of here😵💫Thanks Guys
The name SEIKO does not ring as an expensive watch. There is a subconscious bias even "Grand" added to it. A brand’s down-market association. I agree it is a great watch, but many novices are having second thoughts of buying one.
This is a shame b/c that's just snobbery at its finest. Seiko watches are well-made and good value timepieces and Seiko is smart to offer watches at nearly every price point and style. If that's down market then so be it. You do have to wonder if Grand Seiko would have succeeded as much as it has without the Seiko name. I imagine, despite the naysayers, that it gave the luxury arm a bit of a running start.
I have given up on GS now. They were fun for a while but cannot wait any longer for a bracelet that fits me. They could make a stunning watch but insist on churning out the same old designs and hoping the whacky dials will keep people interested.
Average viewer, name three GS models. Now, three Rolex. Quality aside, name is what matters. If Rolex needed to up their quality, I have little doubt they could but could GS up their branding?
Rolex did have a good Innovation actually in the 80s Boyster points was a converted mechanical movement where they switched out a statement and something else and put a quart drive into a mechanical watch that's why the oysterquartz had such a unique tick
Allowing for the demands of shock protection and general durability a watch should be as slim as possible. Bracelet quality and aesthetic sensibility are also a necessity for me, lets not be vulgar.
*My friend surprised me with a small Rolex watchs NKUWAN and I realized it goes with any outfit and it just looks so elegant. I don’t use it often only when for special occasions. But it does feel nice knowing I have something special like this. Love it !*
Rolex is like Dolce Gabbana. (To be fair though, there is a substance to Rolex at least) that ppl will wear for the brand. Flashy, celebrity's BS. Seiko is technological and craftsmanship genius.
I wear my GS's for me. Nobody notices, and the rare person that does is another watch aficionado. On the rare occasion I wear my Submariner Rolex, it's an attention magnet, and I don't like that.
Have actually stopped looking and caring what GS bring out. There will always be a Rolex I might get a call about though. Current interests are Omega, Zenith and Helm.
love both. Grand Seiko dials are probably among the best, Spring drive movement is so smooth..; BUT in the end, Rolex is simply more desirable; offers much better value retention as well (yes it counts to me when buying 5k+ watches), it's also got the edge in the Sports/tool watch section. They are leaner, smoother, cooler.
They're only more desirable because of brand recognition and resale as a consequence of how we are conditioned to uphold brands over genuine quality and innovation. Subjectively GS blows Rolex into the weeds as a product... in my opinion as someone who doesn't value logos.
@@howardmckenna as i said i love both but rolex has more iconic models than any other watch brands really. For most people at least. That's something that can't be discussed. Submariner, GMT Master 2, Daytona, Explorer... We all know those watches, while most would probably only name the snowflake for grand seiko and that's a shame because they make awesome watches.
I agree - GS sports watches are disappointing. Oversized, chunky, not iconic and crappy bracelets. Take a sub, GMT or Explorer - GS has nothing close to being as elegant.
If I was presented the option of which, I would always select the Grand Seiko. To me, the Grand Seiko is more art and Rolex is more hype.
If you offered me the Rolex for free or the Grand Seiko GMT Spring Drive for $1k USD I would gladly pay the grand. Every time I walk into a Rolex AD and hear how absurd the words coming out of their mouths sound... as if such lunacy has become normal to them (Stockholm syndrome?) the more I wince when I hear what people pay for this mass produced brand. It's no longer about horology it becomes trying to impress the next worker bee. But all sincerely, my deepest regrets to those who received their Rolex as an family heirloom, at least your departed family member had the sense to buy at semi rational prices whilst keeping their dignity and self respect as retail shoppers.
That's exactly what it is. Rolex have never innovated and, if you removed Rolex from the history of watcmaking, it basically wouldn't make a difference. Their watches are nicely finished but they're nothing special for engineering, technology or art. It's all just marketing.
I would, too. But it was not like that before. Nowadays I do not consider Rolex as a watch for watch lovers but an investment pieces for those who buy to collect in safes to resell later (hoping for increase in value). Why would I spend 15k on YM42 when titanium SBGA463 costs new 5k?
@@David-ud9ju Rolex has patented, as well, so not completely correct.
I used to want Rolex, but the more I learn about watches the more I desire Grand Seiko.
Sameeeee
Indeed if they would build on this new dynamic they will be selling alot more units.
but rather buy oemga or other brand but never buy a GS?
same here i see like GS but when i go AD is like same boring wacth maybe anothe omega
Innovations by Rolex: a waiting list.
😅😅😅😅
Except that hype and waiting lists are created by consumers and not manufacturers. It is simple demand versus supply... just like homes in very desirable areas.
Rolex sold 1.2 million watches in 2023. That is all that they can make. They have been doing what they do for decades. We the people want more... and some consumers are flippers that create inflated prices in the secondary market.
You have a face!!!
Ha yes, those werent the faces i was expecting! More handsome clearly!
he also has his own channel Andrew Morgan watches
You been under a rock for last year? 😂
Lol. I never knew Tom had a face, I knew Andrew did though
Finally 😂😂😂😂😂
If you want to impress others, buy a Rolex. If you want to be Impressed, buy a Grand Seiko
You forgot a few comparisons:
- Rolex is impossible to get at retail, while you can go into a store and come out with a Grand Seiko in a few minutes
- 90% of Rolexes you see on people are fake, and some fakes are so good that you can't tell the difference without having an expert look at the movement
So many fakes ??
When you wear a Grand Seiko nobody notices. When you wear a Rolex the wrong people notice.
If you need an expert to tell the difference between a real and fake I suggest you educate yourself a bit more before buying luxury watches 😂
@markhighfill when I wear a Rolex Submariner everyone asks is that real? That's why I never wear my Rolex, I do daily wear a Grand Seiko and own an insane Credor with an enamel dial. People ask, what's that? What's that is better than is it real?
@@Thetrancemix When I wear my Invicta Pro Diver I get asked that, and I say, "Absolutely! It's a genuine Invicta."
Grand Seiko is a watch maker first and marketeers second. Rolex is marketeers first. Innovation is the top criteria of high horology IMO. Rolex is like the Timex of the luxury brand watches.
Rolex is king. King has haterz.
sorry timex who? rolex is more like the seiko of luxury brand watches
Rolex is a marketer first second and third. Watch making is a distant 6th.
Rolex was the first to put a date on the watches,the first to make a GMT,first day and Date makes the best diver watch ever and the world loves them. What has GS done? a little more polishing and quartz movements It doesn't matter how you paint it if has any kind of quartz on the watches is still a quartz watch. Rolex is the watch for real watch fans and the watch for world leaders.
@@luispadilla2212 Show me a high beat Rolex movement with 80 hrs reserve that looks half as good as the GS 9SA5 movement that was designed, fabricated, assembled and regulated in-house. That’s what separates a watch maker from a jewelry maker. I’ll make it even easier for you. Show any Swiss watch maker that makes a 10 hz movement with 80 hrs reserve.
“Ooh it’s snowing, time for a new dial face…”, at least I think that was Tom’s line and a good one 😂
Introduce me to the person who expresses the feeling of "getting lost in" or getting "pulled into" a Rolex dial. I thought the GS Snowflake was too fat for a non-dive watch and the power meter messed up the symmetry of the dial. The first time I held one in my hands, it felt hypnotic.
Under "innovations", you left out one of Rolex's most important new ideas. They were the first watchmaker to come up with the idea of telling you that you're not yet worthy to purchase one of their watches, and to join a waitlist if you hoped to maybe be allowed to buy one in the future.
Grand Seiko is innovating in technology and artisan craftsmanship, Rolex has a name brand. I feel if GS could bring out a 40mm Diver and GMT options with a good bracelet they could beat Rolex.
Key word there my friend: "Bracelet". If they ever fix that, its pretty much done when choosing GS vs Rx.
@@vons3745 100
GS has GMT’s
@@tommyhenriquezkayakangler8465 I think his point was "with a good bracelet." GS is weak on bracelets.
@@malikknows3510 oh I see that 👍🏼
I think I like the mic format better, it was more novel and kinda funny.
I don't own either watch brand yet, I am a fairly new watch collector. I sport a Tissot Visodate powermatic 80 gold dial and a Seiko SPBJ121 Alpinist.
Having done a lot of research in starting my collection (which, btw, thank you for all the content and all the insightful comments. It's helped a lot in my education. Love this community), I would say I aspire to own a GS before ever owning a Rolex. Solely for the reason that I started collecting for a beauty of the art form and the engineering in the movement. A Rolex would be cool, but I'd just feel more proud of a GS because of the intentionality behind its inception and what I want my collection to look like.
I had a similar journey, I started with my alpinist, love it. A few days ago I was finally able to get my GS snowflake and looking at the second hand sweep makes me so happy, knowing the spring drive is behind it all takes your pride of ownership to a new level
If there's a way to change for the better it must be *AWM23K* . I had lost all hope with the decisions our big guys make which just keeps their power and imbalance up. Maybe at some point basic people like me and you have to take over, right?
Superb video. But, let me share this here knowing it can uplift someone that comes across it. Effective financial management made me rich and it is all you need if you want to build a strong financial future tomorrow. I started with 1000USD, 3 years ago I invested in a diversified stock market and fast forward to now I am worth 500000USD and am currently finishing my 8 unit apartments. I'm only 35 years old. Diversified stock investments have always proven to be very profitable, especially with the help of experts.
The hell with value retention; I buy a GS, I’m keeping it for life.
I prefer it without faces. It lets the imagination work. And the audio works well with companies promo footage.
They both make great watches. Buy what you like because nobody cares what you’re wearing anyway
I don’t get the hate for GS bracelets, to me it’s fine no complaints. I like the size and the non taper is perfectly fine. It’s as nice as any other bracelet for the price.
Its an ok bracelet. I do prefer the swiss bracelets in terms of design. Besides the design, Grand Seiko bracelets are high quality and well polished, I just think the design is a little plane. i do like the Rolex Jubilee.
GS bracelets just need micro adjustment and they will be competitive with Rolex bracelets.
You guys are in denial.
GS bracelets are awful!
Glad if they fit you and you like them, but I have given up on the brand now and the bracelets are a big reason.
@@alfieakaronaldog why are they awful? Nice finishing, good clasp, and locking mechanism.
@@dannysimenauer5745 I guess, but most of my watches don’t have micro adjustments. Never bothered me. I did try on a Tudor BB pro and might buy one soon and yea the T-fit clasp was cool. But honestly I don’t really see someone using it that much to make it worth it. I have my wedding watch I sized 7 years ago and have never had a problem. It doesn’t have micro adjustments. Would you really sit there every day or several times a day and adjust your watch?
better materials
better movement
better dials
only thing thats not better is the marketing.
But on the Rolex side it’s better case, better bracelet, and better overall execution. GS has amazing tech and components, but it’s like shoving the highest end materials into a laptop. You’ll have the most powerful tank that is impractical to bring around so no one uses it as a laptop. Rolex is like apple. They have marketing, great products, not the most innovative, and they know how to put it all into a seamless package. If GS could just put their watches in a package that isn’t oversized or with cheap bracelets, then they’d be perfect. A watch is only as good as I want to wear it, and I’ve owned a GS diver that I sold bc it just never felt comfortable.
@@seanlinehan1136 I have a SBGX061 and an Explorer II and between them I can't tell the difference between the bracelets. GS bracelet is so close to Rolex's in style and comfort that I'm surprised there isn't a lawsuit. HOWEVER Rolexes clasp is leagues ahead of the considerably more basic GS clasp. The GS strap has no micro-adjustment or extension links on it (we all have pesky bloated wrist days) and however safe the clasp is on the GS the fliplock on the Rolex makes me feel like you'd need to take my arm off with a chainsaw to get it off me.
Finishing however the GS is so ahead it is mad. I would also argue that even though GS's cases are bigger and quite thick in some cases (pun intended) there is no quality different between GS cases and Rolex cases. I just wish the cases were smaller.
That’s exactly what I’m saying!!!!!
Go Tom......nice to see the face of the man behind the witty cynicism. I'm pretty sure you're in the upload of the journey to Switzerland but nice to finally get some closure on this matter after Andrew's unveiling early in the year. Nico Leonard has a lot to f3ckin answer for now that you're both unmasked. If it's alright I'm going to continue listening to both of your utterances with my eyes closed. Imagination Andrew & Tom are what I'm used to....
If something showed how quickly things can turnaround then that must be *AWM23K* it's definitely in line to become one of the best
^scam
I own two Grand Seiko, the SBGX263 quartz and the SBGE271 Spring Drive. I can honestly say both watches are beautiful and pleasing to wear. Very comfortable and I can stare at them all day. I almost don’t want to wear them much because of afraid to scratch them😂. So I end up wearing my Omega SMP 300 most of the time . Not that’s it’s not a great watch but seems like it can take a beating. I can’t speak for Rolex , not yet an owner. Hopefully soon.
Think you've hit the nail on the head there, but not in the way you intended. Whereas most enthusiasts will know what Daytona, Datejust etc are and look like, reeling off GS model codes doesn't resonate as well. I couldn't tell you what a SBGX263 or a SBGE271 look like or which view of rural Japan they represent. That said, I have a SBGA469 but not a Rolex and they've just discontinued the only one I like -the Milgauss
I know what you mean! I bought SBGP017, it is a mere quartz....but I am afraid to wear it, the 44GS case is so shiny and "mirrory" I do not want to leave fingerprints on it, not to mention hairline scratches! And the dial....it is my exibition piece that I wear for myself, at home, for a few minutes, and put carefully back in the box. 🙂
Short answer YES, long answer YES
Love how Tom is enjoying himself doing double entendres and Andrew not getting it!😂
Just my 2 cents or whatever, I was driven by the hype about how wonder a Rolex was and I purchased an Explorer 2 at the begining of last year, well that feeling of "I have a Rolex" didn't last that long and I sold it 2 months later and would never have another one. I love so many of the GS Dials and the finish is sublime. At the moment I cannot decide but will probably go the GS Snowflake - the dial is just so captivating to look at and finish just excellent
to sum up, all the ancestors of GS employee whispering to their ears "do your best, keep innovating, be creative, be artistic and finnish the hell out of that watch" while Rolex manager yell over the loudspeaker "make more money".
The short answer is yes.
Freaked out by you both being in front of the camera now. I like it
I love and own watches from both brands (GS SBGA413 and a Rolex GMT Master II). Both have pros and cons - I wouldn’t necessarily say one is better than the other!
I love how the Grand Seiko completely flies under the radar and is therefore more understated. The dial is undeniably more interesting - that's what initially attracted me to the brand. The case finishing is superior to Rolex. It’s just a more interesting watch overall that I really enjoy wearing from time to time. However, one downside of the funky/interesting dial is that it’s far less versatile than my other watches. Frankly, I hope Grand Seiko doesn’t get too popular because I really like how much of an unknown it is to most people (apart from watch enthusiasts that is).
Hands down, the Rolex feels more solidly built and the proportions of the watch are just better. The bracelet is way ahead of anything Grand Seiko offers (I have the jubilee). Even little things like the snappy date change or the strong click of the micro extension give the watch a very robust feel. For those reasons, it has become my go-to watch and I have a tough time taking it off. I own more watches than just these two, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the GMT is the only watch in my collection that I’d truly never sell; it’d be a perfect watch for a one-watch collection. For me, the biggest cons are (1) the stigma around Rolex, and (2) how long I had to wait for one to become available (~2 years).
There is no stigma lol.
Man up and be proud of your purchases FFS!
I personally have no problem waiting a year or two 🤷🏻♂️
Helms have a much longer waiting list!!
A very significant category that was not discussed is wearability comfort. I think that bracelet functionality, quality and comfort, overall weight balance and head thickness is something that Rolex does much better on most models and especially on the sports models.
Why would you want a heavy watch instead of a lightweight comfortable watch?
@@Jeguia85 I wouldn't want a heavy watch. I don't think this is what I have written. I mentioned that the weight balance of Rolex watches is better (in my opinion) than GS.
A Grand Seiko snowflake is the lightest sports watch of that quality I have ever tried on. If Titanium is not light enough for comfort then I don't what it is. However micro adjust is definitely needed on GS. But I always remove the bracelet as soon as I buy a sports watch and replace it with either a paratrooper strap as this is the most precise adjustment possible.
What do you mean by weight balance?
@@FuckPedophileBiden I mean the distribution of weight between the watch head and the bracelet, ensuring it feels well-proportioned and harmonious, neither excessively heavy nor overly light.
GS is definitely better than Rolex, but then Rolex has the world rolling thanks to its marketing techniques. The finishing on GS is simply just on another level. Period.
Without question... Grand Seiko is better engineered, more pleasing to look, and a better story to tell.
A pity for those who haven't quite figured it out.
"It's snowing on that mountain! I feel a dial coming up" :D Brilliant...
Heres my quick two cents as a very small collector. Rolex blows grand seiko out of the water with its tool/sports watches and grand seiko blows rolex out the water with its dress watches. Those dials on the omiwatari, snowflake etc! Class. For rolex the GMT and submariner are timeless.
Hard to argue that point. However, I feel it is a matter of time before GS put that right. Something is not quite right with their sports watches, but soon to be rectified. the Rolex sub is so iconic and that sells no matter what. Id rather have the new Yachtmaster Titanium though. that thing is awesome
@barrycolmer324. If GS figures out sports watches that'd be the day! I do believe that GS will start having a waitlist for certain models. I'm about to pick up the omiwatari from GS, and I've been on the weightlifting for a pepsi and green bezel sub. We'll see if it ever happens. Every day that passes, I just look at gret market prices lmao.
@@L2snakegold Congrats on the GS Omiwatari, it is truly stunning to both look at and wear. Which one are you going for? I recently picked up the white dial version on bracelet and it is mesmerising. Recently sold my Tudor Pepsi, but the Rolex original would be ace Im sure, although Ive never seen one in the flesh.
@barrycolmer324 the GS I'm going to get is the SBGY007. I was lucky enough to have a watch shop allow me try on a pepsi. Took a picture of it on my wrist. I hope it will help with the manifestation of the watch!
I like the video version better than the audio presentation version. ❤
One of the stupid reasons to buy a watch: because it's 'better' than the watch you actually want.
I'm researching my first luxury watch purchase and not even considering Rolex. Grand Seiko is the front runner by far over Omega, IWC and Breitling for aesthetics, price and availability of case sizes under 40mm.
I think Rolex makes very fine watches but I have a problem with the brand itself. It is a watch for nouveau riche people who really are not interested in watches but more to show off. Grand Seikos are very beautiful and extremely high quality but they suffer from ”Seiko” in their brand name. I have both and I wear my Skyflake much more often. But now I have bought few new Omegas and I am very satisfied with them.
agree 100% > the M3 driving flash git being loud at the golf club bar wearing a gold Rolex, someone that has never heard of another swiss brand V's the Shy retiring Jag driving business man having a quiet lunch wearing an A Lange & Söhne
I think both produce high quality products for different customers. A buyer of the skyflake doesn’t have the wants or needs of a buyer looking at a OP. I myself prefer GS to most Rolex models but I have massive respect for Rolex’ accuracy and their design language.
I own and love both brands. For me they are just different. The most beautiful watch in my collection is a GS. My holy grail is a Rolex. The type of answer that the obnoxious fanboys cannot understand 🤣.
And someday you will get that Rolex young grasshopper
@@davidr2802 I already got it...🙂
My grail is GS :) Chanel J12 is second to it
@@DarkPa1adin If I was forced to keep just one watch, it would be my GMT Master II Pepsi. It is simply perfect!
I own both brands, both in GMT complication. The GS is by far the better made, finished and engineered watch.
Why I can see your faces ??
If Grand seiko sort their bracelets out then that would be seriously good
I'm the lucky owner of an SBGA413 Cherry Blossom time piece. I don't have any words to describe what I see when I'm looking at so many details.
BTW, the balance wheel in a spring drive doesn't swing but rotates constantly, and there is no escapement.
Well. I think GS needs to do a lot for the price they are trying to sell for. The bracelet needs a huge improvement for example.
I am fully digesting the mighty *AWM23K* and my belly is going to be full now
Tom! Always great to see Tom! Grand Seiko are watch artisans and innovators first, while Rolex play to the masses and market well. Grand Seiko is for me!
GS doesn't care much about profit margin or at least, it is not a priority. Although they reuse certain dials in new paint, they do push themselves to make art pieces (rather than time pieces) that speak to people.
Rolex does. hence, Rolex plays it safe and sells a lot more watches and earns a lot more money.
Seiko has to improve the height of their watches, the bracelett and use some lume. Then we can start comparing. Nice looks are just a part oft the equation. The wearing experience is another part, and thats where rolex exceeds. Cheers
I own seiko sla043J1, and both Rolex sub 114060 and a polar 50th anniversary. and also a GS white birch. And the wearing experience is the same. The Polar and the GS are the best for me. Just depends on your outfit and what you think of what you are wearing. At the beach, of course the divers are kings. Cheers
Evo 9 did slim down a bit. Yes their height is a bit thiccccc
Shame you didn’t mention the technology and quality of Grand Seiko quartz.
A mechanical, spring drive, and quartz Grand Seiko is my holy trinity of watches.
Agreed. The quartz is 'grown' in-house and quality controlled specifically for perfection.
Spring Drive is beautiful
Rolex quality? I have a 16610, 23 years old….still kicking ass. I’ve serviced it 2x….wait, maybe 3 but it gets the most wrist time. I love the rattling bracelet. I’m marveled that it is just as good as it was when it was new. Well, even better IMO because he has withstood all this time. I think trying to compare what Rolex is providing versus what GS does, is not really something to fairly compare. I have a SMP300, love it as well but it scratches a different design itch than my Rolexes (and Zeniths, Tudor). I’ve been eyeing a couple GS models, they scratch a different itch for me though. I will love it as well when I pull the trigger.
I've also heard some people say that the name Grand Seiko doesn't have any cache'. Lexus wasn't named Grand Toyota and Acura wasn't named Grand Honda. I own a Rolex Day-Date and am currently awaiting the arrival of a Grand Seiko SBGA493 (red dial) Spring Drive this month. I'm looking forward to becoming hypnotized by the "new smooth sweep technology."
Wait wait WAIT! So you were never actually 2 high-tech microphones controlling 2 sets of self-aware talking hands all along?!
I like the mic format better. More fun to watch.
For a value and quality ratio Grand Seiko is the much better buy, it has a great history too but as mentioned the lack of world availability for GS watches has held them back a lot compared to how world renowned Rolex is. I don't own a GS yet but I have been in love with the snowflake for a very long time especially with the dial and the captivating spring drive!
The only luxury watch I own is a Vintage two tone Datejust, I went vintage because I didn't feel like spending £9,000+ on a modern one :') so I got a great vintage for under £4,000!
I think I prefer no faces. Great conversation though
Great to see both faces. Thanks for all the watch videos.
Andrew is not how I imagined him to look
Gotta say i prefer to see your faces, communication is 90% non verbal and the disembodied voices were cool and all, now it feels more personal, better connected with our dear hosts.
The host looks a lot like Andrew Morgan over on the Talking Hands channel.
Now that we can see you both, Tom is definitely Penfold ( no offence Tom, Penfold is still pretty cool) and Andrew is Danger Mouse 😁. GS for me
Finally I see who behind the fancy voice from longgggggg time…
Haven’t watched yet…commenting only on title. I own both, and I can enthusiastically say, Grand Seiko is better even if equally priced
You should have done this by looking at each sector. Who has the best dive watch under £10k? Best Chronograph etc
Landslide win for GS, sure, Rx have watches in all price brackets but you can't buy any of them so there goes that.
Yes
People who may have some issue with the name Seiko because of its shop mall models...Mercedes Benz sells the S class, Maybach spec and plenty of high end AMG models. It also sells the C class, and the A class. You can get on a Mercedes bus and drive past Mercedes delivery vans and trucks...
Doesn't seem to hurt the MB brand that much...
I much prefer Rolex even though I want to love GS. GS are still often too big and have rubbish bracelets. I also personally prefer the rounded design of Rolex over the straight lines of GS. However the GS>Rolex when it comes to polishing and dial design. Some recent Rolex dials are laughable.
One thing I want to see from GS is silicon hairsprings.
Holy fucking shit! Dr. Strange is on UA-cam talking about watches!
I missed the microphone 🎙️ 😂 just kidding well done guys!
✌🏼😎👍🏼
Rolex is best at marketing, GS is better at everything else. You forgot to mention the widespread problems with Rolex 32xx movements. Many develop low amplitude leading to poor timekeeping and to date there has not been a fix, despite this series of movements being around for many years now.
Grand Seiko - excellence at an affordable price. E.g Sbgn003. Also no security worries wearing in cities.
Where can I learn about the different components within a watch like the main spring etc?
A duel of duals between two jewels
I prefer GS over Rolex because I can go in a GS shop, ask a seller who doesn't look at me like if I was a maggot, try a couple of watches, buy one and go back home with my box. I can't do that with a Rolex.
GS can't match Rolex "branding" because they don't have just a few recognizable model lines. People eventually learn what an Explorer, Oyster Perpetual, or Submariner are, but nobody knows all hundred (? just a guess, which makes my point) or so GS models. There's Spring Drive and Hi-Beat (and mechanical and quartz), but those labels tell you nothing about what any given watch looks like. Even the cases vary from model to model. Only us watch nerds know how a "Snowflake" differs from an "Omniwatari" or a "Shunbun".
Is this good or bad? Who knows - I'm no marketing guru - but GS seems to sell them as fast as they can make them, just like Rolex does. I do think that Rolex's limited models contribute to the lunacy of the secondary market, whereas the great variety of GS models makes hoarding and flipping a more difficult enterprise: very few are in such demand that market prices exceed RRP.
Great change to be able to see you both in between macro shots. Faces to voices makes all the difference.
I’m stuck in a cabin in Borgo di Vagli Italy. It hasn’t stopped raining in 4 days. If it weren’t for these videos I feel I would lose my mind. Get me out of here😵💫Thanks Guys
why when people got to gs ad always end up buy omega or other brand but didnt buy GS?
The name SEIKO does not ring as an expensive watch. There is a subconscious bias even "Grand" added to it. A brand’s down-market association. I agree it is a great watch, but many novices are having second thoughts of buying one.
This is a shame b/c that's just snobbery at its finest. Seiko watches are well-made and good value timepieces and Seiko is smart to offer watches at nearly every price point and style. If that's down market then so be it. You do have to wonder if Grand Seiko would have succeeded as much as it has without the Seiko name. I imagine, despite the naysayers, that it gave the luxury arm a bit of a running start.
Grand Seiko by a mile
I have given up on GS now.
They were fun for a while but cannot wait any longer for a bracelet that fits me.
They could make a stunning watch but insist on churning out the same old designs and hoping the whacky dials will keep people interested.
Average viewer, name three GS models. Now, three Rolex. Quality aside, name is what matters. If Rolex needed to up their quality, I have little doubt they could but could GS up their branding?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes it is.
Grand seiko, Rolex... Andrew, it is you that is the best.
Rolex did have a good Innovation actually in the 80s Boyster points was a converted mechanical movement where they switched out a statement and something else and put a quart drive into a mechanical watch that's why the oysterquartz had such a unique tick
Fake Rolexes are more than common. No one has the technology to fake a spring drive Grand-Seiko..
Allowing for the demands of shock protection and general durability a watch should be as slim as possible. Bracelet quality and aesthetic sensibility are also a necessity for me, lets not be vulgar.
Short answer: No... but... Yes.
*My friend surprised me with a small Rolex watchs NKUWAN and I realized it goes with any outfit and it just looks so elegant. I don’t use it often only when for special occasions. But it does feel nice knowing I have something special like this. Love it !*
It's nice and refrashing to have the face behind the voice actually appear in video, I like this change
GS to wear, Rolex to bargain for my life in case I get kidnapped!🤷🏾
What! No more microphones, we get to see your face 😮
Rolex is like Dolce Gabbana. (To be fair though, there is a substance to Rolex at least) that ppl will wear for the brand. Flashy, celebrity's BS.
Seiko is technological and craftsmanship genius.
GS would be considered one of the best if made in Switzerland and "improved" their bracelets.
Does anyone know the name which the "blue lake" dial goes by? (14:17)
I wear my GS's for me. Nobody notices, and the rare person that does is another watch aficionado. On the rare occasion I wear my Submariner Rolex, it's an attention magnet, and I don't like that.
Have actually stopped looking and caring what GS bring out.
There will always be a Rolex I might get a call about though.
Current interests are Omega, Zenith and Helm.
Congrats on the new format video!
love both. Grand Seiko dials are probably among the best, Spring drive movement is so smooth..;
BUT in the end, Rolex is simply more desirable; offers much better value retention as well (yes it counts to me when buying 5k+ watches), it's also got the edge in the Sports/tool watch section. They are leaner, smoother, cooler.
They're only more desirable because of brand recognition and resale as a consequence of how we are conditioned to uphold brands over genuine quality and innovation.
Subjectively GS blows Rolex into the weeds as a product... in my opinion as someone who doesn't value logos.
@@howardmckenna as i said i love both but rolex has more iconic models than any other watch brands really. For most people at least. That's something that can't be discussed. Submariner, GMT Master 2, Daytona, Explorer... We all know those watches, while most would probably only name the snowflake for grand seiko and that's a shame because they make awesome watches.
I care about the watch not value retention; I buy a GS, I’m keeping it for life.
I agree - GS sports watches are disappointing. Oversized, chunky, not iconic and crappy bracelets. Take a sub, GMT or Explorer - GS has nothing close to being as elegant.
@@Webb_Master i care about both. Cheers