U.S. Navy Enlisted Ranks (WW2)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
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Sources:
• www.cv6.org/company/muster/org...
• uniform-reference.net/insigni...
This was a very information dense topic, and some of these rates came in and out of existence at different times. If you'd like this same info in a written format with all the abbreviations and footnotes clarifying some things we couldn't fit in the video, Justin Broderick's website Uniform Reference has a great article series which we sourced from: uniform-reference.net/insignia/usn/usn_ww2_enlisted.html
Also, the Master Chief's Sea Chest has a good video on the history and evolution of the rate badge: ua-cam.com/video/xNvXDZxVdhw/v-deo.html
Cool bro!
Watched those before this video, I agree that it is a great watch!
12:44 all of the officer steward are listed as being 3rd class
To the non-Navy personnel out there, this all may be confusing but to everyone in the fleet this all makes fairly good sense. There's a lot of pride in every rate.
Navy warrant officer and commissioned officer ranks please.
navy officers do not work. only enlisted matter
You revealed a lot of history that's not typically talked about, thank you for that respect.
How many rank titles do you want by their ratings?
Navy: Yes
More navy video pls!!! Great job
Something my CO told me a few weeks ago is that the petty in petty officer is derived from the French word petit rather than the English meaning of petty. This is best translated as junior rather than the literal meaning of small size. It was adopted by the Royal Navy back in the days when the French Navy were considered the cool guys that everyone wanted to emulate. And obviously the US Navy picked it up from the Royal Navy. I guess that makes sense, it was just something I never thought about.
BZ Battle Order! Wonderful documentary as usual. You’re doing a great service for the military history resource community and your efforts will not go unnoticed. As an aside, I really appreciate the care you put into laying down the facts of what Black sailors faced in WWII as “second-class citizens” from everything like the lack of Chief representation to non-uniform rank insignia with the rest of the Fleet.
Again, wonderful video and I can’t wait to see what you’ll come up with next. With this nitty gritty format I’d love to see something similar for the U.S. Air Force with a slightly less messy, but still fairly strange enlisted rank structure, and for the general British Empire and Commonwealth conventions.
Awesome. Waited for this. Grandfather was Signalman 1st Class WW2, Pacific theater.
My grandfather went in as an Elctrician's Mate 1c in 1948 recognizing his service in WW2 in the Merchant Marine when he was too young for enlistment. He served 20 years and would often wear his red chevrons as an extra layer in colder weather, despite never being busted down for discipline.
Definitely need to cover the officers and warrants. And how on a few occasions during the war "SC" officers ended up commanding ships (which isn't supposed to happen).
Recently the Navy talked about doing away with Ratings. The howling could be heard for miles including from my wife who is a retired Chief Yeoman. They quickly backed off.
Very late in WWII (if memory serves) 6 years' Good Conduct (and award of the medal) allowed PO to have silver bullion stripes. At 12 (second GCM award) the gold bullion was used. Disorderly Conduct lost the billion braid entire.
There was an unofficial (bu much used) term, "Striker" meaning a non-rated sailor having been approved to attend Rating School (what we would now call "A" School. Initially only 1/c could wear rating badges as Strikers, but later, 2/c were allowed if pre-qualified in their career field.
It's almost ridiculous how often the ratings in the Navy change. Half the ratings from WWII don't exist anymore or have been combined with other. And half the rating today didn't exist back then. I was in the Navy '75-'95 as an AT (aviation electronics technician) and saw the AQ (fire control tech) and AX (anti-sub tech) get combined into the AT rating.
It makes sense since they’re tied to jobs. MOSs in the Army and Marines change all the time but no one really notices because they don’t change their titles normally, except for perhaps the Marine Gunner whose title has its origins in the Navy Gunner
My wife is a retired Chief Yeoman which seems to be one of the ratings that hasn't really changed.
From a Navy Cold War Veteran job well done. As we say Bravo-Zulu
You didn’t mention naval mobile construction rates (CB) which was a huge part of the navy during ww2. The video was interesting!
That may be a future video, but this was more about insignia than unit organizations.
To clarify, the CBs didn't have different rates. So they'd be staffed by Carpenter's Mates, Gunner's Mate, etc. same as the rest of the Navy but organize them into specific roles, like Surveyor or Builder
@@BattleOrder they had a combined rate (normal navy rate plus CB) most of the rank insignia had unique CB specific designators. They created the Rates in 1948. This is similar to the way the BMMA rates worked prior to the designator of the MA rate as an independent rate. Maybe do a whole video on CB’s? It’s pretty dense stuff.
usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2016/03/04/the-u-s-navy-seabees-rates-to-remember/
Fair
Watched to the end to learn where the seabees fit in and which rates they held before they received their own designations. Would definitely enjoy a seabee specific video.
Ah, the non-crayon eaters.
Someone has to transport the crayons
@@BattleOrder seems so lol
Yep, the seamen....
My grandfather was a GM3c, if I recall correctly he had briefly made it to 2nd class but got busted back down after he told an officer to piss off when he was told to paint the inside of a gun tub in a combat area (Okinawa) which was against the regs.
My grandfather was an Aircraft Chief Machinist’s Mate on a PBY Catalina at the start of WWII earning a Navy Cross for action on December 27th, 1941. Now I know what his rank insignia looked like.
Pls more Navy videos. You guys do amazing work and I would love to see more about my branch.
Excited for this one!
You are confusing rate with rating. A rating is a sailor's occupational specialty, Ship's Cook, for example. A rate is the sailor's "rank." I place rank in quotes because historically sailors have not held rank. Naval officers hold rank, but not enlisted sailors. When you read World War II Navy muster reports on Fold3, when a Ship's Cook 1c was advanced to Chief Commissary Steward, for instance, the transaction was called a "change in rate."
A side note: the Quartermaster worked for the Navigator, not necessarily the Executive Officer. However, on many of the smaller ships, the XO was the Navigator, along with a myriad of other duties.
I'm joining the Navy in about a year! Can't wait to watch this.
Good luck in the future
Go in with a rate in mind.
@@robertdean1929 already done.
How about doing a video on the Seabees?
Construction Battalions is an okay name, but real missed opportunity: the Marine Corps of Engineers!
For real he just left out the whole line up of seabee rates
This was very well done!
Thanks mate
Excellent content as always.
Seabees used the fleet rates they had been recruited from. Later we got new insignia. I was a Construction Electrician and had a power pole with a lightning bolt through it. The rate did everything electrical, power generation and distribution, telephone exchanges, shop work like motor repairs and building wiring. There were the odd ball jobs like repairing washer machines and dryers, hanging anodes in a water tank 120 feet up to reverse static electricity and stop the paint damage. Being attached to the telephone exchange which were the Navy's Motion Picture Exchanges I also fixed projectors and damaged film. I also worked on the sound systems. A very technical rating combining parts of the fleet ratings like Interior Communications Electricians, Electricians Mates and others. In addition we had military duties as small arms company members. Small arms was the pistol, M16, Grenade launcher. We were more like an infantry battalion.
You guessed it. I don't know anything about ships.
A rank specifically for demotion.
Lol
I bet many considered that "mark of shame" to be a badge of honor worn with pride!
My Grandfather was a Postal Clerk 2nd Class.
Great video! Though some of the structure has changed over the years, and because there are so many different jobs to be done in the Navy (and Coast Guard) the system may seem complicated, but it is really very simple. As far as insignia is concerned, your RANK is shown by number of chevrons for petty officers, and hash marks (after WWII instead of the piping) for non- petty officers or non-rated personnel. When you made 3rd class, it incorporated a specific RATING which defines your specialist training and represented by the symbol under the crow. You can easily look at any sailor and tell what his rank is and, when rated (3rd class and higher) exactly what their training is. It really is that simple.
Ratings were assigned to different departments on a ship which in turn are made up of individual specialist divisions. But the division assignment has no impact on the way the insignia is shown or the training the sailor would have received to have earned that rating. You could be an Engineman or a Machinist Mate in ‘A’ Division, for example. Depending on the propulsion system, either Machinist Mates or Engineman could be in the engine room....and so on.
Very good video. Keep up the good work.
Very complex, excellent video!
My grandfather who served in WWII as a S1c aboard PT-108, 5th Motor Torpedo Squadron (or RON-5) was both a Barber and Torpedoman. But Pt-boaters did not have, nor did the Navy ever make an Insignia/badge such a Surface Warfare Specialist. But the Elco and Higgins boat companies had made-up at their cost always a set of Silver-PT badges for crewmen and Gold for Officer's aboard every new PT-Boat, to be awarded by the boat captain when they'd meet their training requirements. He was always prouder of that badge than any other awards given.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
A friend of mine was in the US Army. At one point in time, he (retired as E-7) worked alongside some Navy guys in an office.
Well, he was a bit of a prankster. So he took the jacket of a Navy guy without his knowledge. Then proceeded to the tailor shop where he had them remove the rank/rate patch and invert the patch. This way, the chevrons pointed in the "correct direction."
The Navy guy didn't notice, but his commanding officer sure did.
This was great!! My grandpa AND great uncle (never met till my parents wedding in ‘73. Quite the coincidence) were on the Saratoga and I’ve tried to get as much info as I can. They both died before I was old enough to really ask them about it.
That’s really cool seeing the different insignias on people for different jobs and stuff like radio man etc. it’s really cool looking
Thank You.
My dad was a Yeoman second class before becoming a 90 day wonder officer during WW2. This was in Coast Guard that became part of the Navy during the same period. USCG today has many of the same petty officer symbols as Nav. My uncle was a first class Electricians Mate on USS Louisville. He saw some heavy action towards the end.
You should cover ww2 Seabees. Excellent video
Please do Navy officer ranks
Thanks for this ..it explained by grandfather's rate during the time..went from AS to a SF2C in only 2 years and 2 mos..and then discharged..They moved up quick back then
He keeps saying "seamen" and "duty" and "coxswain" and I'm chuckling every single time.
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Finally a navy video babyeee
I love this stuff
I was an Aviation storekeeper enjoyed my time in the Navy 20 good years.
Please more rank videos. Maybe some for commonwealth nations as well
I remember in the month leading up to me going to Marine Corps boot camp, I studied Navy ranks. I learned how to tell the difference between Chief, Senior Chief, and Master Chief by the rocker and the stars. I get to boot camp and go to medical for the fun fun vaccines and see Sailors in khakis with gold anchors on their collars...I was like "WTF is that even???" 🤣🤣🤣
*Edit: I do know Chief khaki collar ranks now...lol.
Hooyah Mineman!
That's nice but can anyone explain how shipwreck from gi joe be wearing a chief petty officer rank while wearing dungarees.
It was common for "below decks" CPOs during WW2 to wear dungarees instead of khakis as the former were made of a heavier weight cotton denim (and thus could handle taking the rigors of heavyweight work duties) instead of the lighter-weight cotton for the khakis, which would be more suitable for the bridge or in areas of higher visibility (thus one of the reasons why the Navy tried to phase out the khaki uniforms and replace it with the dark gray uniforms). That is why in the Navy of today, you'll see Officers (Commissioned, CWOs, and WOs), CPOs, and other rates wear the dark blue coveralls instead of the "work khakis" for Officers, CWOs/WOs, and Chiefs or dungaree-type "utility" uniforms for other rates.
And now we know
The QMs are the helmsmen of ships not the Boatswains. My stepfather was a QM. From my understanding, QMs drive ships, boatswains drive boats. He said the best part of being a QM is that you always know what’s going on with the ship.
Coxswain is kind of a generic title for someone piloting a small boat. Quartermasters were definitely the rate more focused on navigation and steering, but at least during World War II, boatswain's mates were also meant to be trained on steering and plotting courses. There was a degree of overlap between some of the rates with regards to duties and skills
Oh no doubt on the overlap. It was just a small critique. Not even really note worthy. I find it interesting that the more martially formal a MOS, be it QM to BM or Infantryman to Engineer or Armor(which retains its Cavalry heritage) or Artillery, you tend to find that there is quite a bit of overlap in jobs in the broad scheme. As opposed to the newer MOSs, where you have highly segmented with hardly any bleed over to other MOSs, except in extreme circumstances. This is evidenced currently by the Navy SMs being absorbed by the QMs (and the fact that most times they both became Damage Control under fire), and in the Army with pretty much every combat arms battalion in Iraq, with the exception of a few Artillery batteries and Engineer companies that retained their primary MOS taskings, acting as Infantry.
Fair point, I should've emphasized the steering part more for the Quartermasters.
I think it probably comes down to what is important for a unit in a serious situation. When a ship is in combat, the situation is serious for everyone on board no matter what job they are and it becomes necessary to abandon low priority jobs. For ground warfare could argue that there seems to be more stratification in the threat level. So combat arms and their direct support directly in harms way being used to hold ground makes sense while the more technical/specialist/high value MOSs away from the danger are more free to just do their normal jobs.
Do more videos on Corpsmen please!!!
I was navy 1998-2006, my chiefs told me you used to have at least 1 njp and 1 dui to make CPO. My first LCPO was a red crow master chief. It's not like that anymore. Also the navy has the most confusing and colorful enlisted rank structure of all the branches.
One fun thing... the EM speciality mark is a screw-up. When the rating badge was developed, light bulbs were called globes. Supply ordered a group of badges with globes on them... and the manufacturer gave them just that. Oops.
The musician's insignia isn't a harp. It's the ancient Greek stringed instrument, the lyre.
My grandfather served on the uss Salt Lake City from 1941-45 and retired as gunners mate 2nd class. He sadly died 12 years before I was born due to cancer caused most likely from the ship it’s self or them being to close to the bombs.
Have an incredible friend who was Bosun’ CPO IN. Destroyer during the Cold War. He said the Bosun was also throne who kept the Foscle from heading to the Quarterdeck after a particularly stupid or dangerous order was sent out. 🦅⚓️
Wow and literally first! Wish for video about Cold War era or 21st century era US Army Special Forces AKA 'Green Berets' rank, structure, equipment and other things in the future, please 🥺🙏?
Me: wonders why there was a difference between foodservice personnel for officer's and enlisted galleys and messes.
BO: "Mess stewards were racially segregated..."
Me: "oh, of course..." :-(
Small pick here: the symbol used for musicians is technically called a "lyre" not a "harp."
If you can make more video's about the Navy, that would be enjoyable
Could you do a video on machine gun MOS’s?
They would also call seamen apprentices to seamen/fireman/ect "strikers" because they had yet to strike (start earning) a rating. They would be able to try different jobs until they strike for the rate.
please do a video on british motorized infantry
WOW.... You really missed the SEABEES!!
My grandfather was a Machinist Mate 1st Class on the USS Juneau (CLAA-52). Sadly he went down with the ship along with but 10 of his ship mates. Interestingly, this was same ship as the Sullivan brothers.
1:38 and would last for over 500 years, so that one Master Chief Petty Officer could become the most famous of them all.
You left out the Seabees
This was vary good but you did leave some out, you left out the sea bee mark, and the UDT mark.
Dad made FC3c on 8 February 1944 aboard DD534 USS McCord according to his diary. He was a plank owner.
Please make a warrant officer and officer one, Navy officer should boards are my fav ranks of all time.
Please, could you explain the composition of the squads Afghan police and ANA army? Thank you.
As a former food service worker I'm offended that they didn't use a crossing of a chefs knife and a spatula for their insignia.
My Goodness. While I'm watching this video; I'm trying to figure out how to get an actual copy of my birth certificate. Now was my Father a Tech Sargent, Master Sargent, or Senior Master Sargent in the Air Force when I was born? Lol
WOW! As I’m watching this, and being an incurable Trekie, I can’t help but apply this to Starfleet. Both divisions (Command, Medical/Science, Security) and the specific duties within each division.
This is more important than sleep.
The NAVY does it ALL, and does it ALL at ONCE! Proud U.S. NAVY veteran PO3 '73 >'77 🇺🇸✌
Exactly the same period of time I was in the Navy, Admiral Elmo’s Fleet! 73 - 77🇺🇸👍🏽
Where can i find the stock footage you used
I would recommend yu to do a video on indian army aswell.
can you do the IDF
When did the pattern maker get its own rating symbol?
I thought the Sea Bees came about during WWII, if they did what was their branch and badges?
World's Greatest Navy!
Great video. I.Y.A.O.Y.A.S.!
Where did SeeBee's (Construction Battalions) fall in this structure?
Should do British Naval ranks (ww2)
As an EM3 i cheered when EM came up. Gods im a nerd
@Support_Israel 1. fuck your name free Palestine. 2. im an active duty US Navy sailor. Not a submariner.
What non -rates, rates, Petty Officers would CB Survey(ors)?
Interesting about which way the eagles head faces for seaman type rates vs non seaman rates. Interesting!!!
The naval infantry had no fire support - except 16-inch guns from battleships and aircraft carrier close air support!!!
Master bugeler that would be a cool rate.in my Navy we had some of the same rates.i was a AO.
pls do commissioned officers
I don't know what's more prestigious an E-8 or 9 with red stripes or gold stripes. I have meet both an E8 and E9 with red stripes (active) when I was in the reserve. Let just say both of them were badass dudes.
Even in WW II there were Navy Seabees. Where is the insignia for those rates?
Please do the navy warrant officers and commissioned officers!
9:50 what does the V stand for, is it a Roman Number?
If I had to guess, the V stands for voler. It comes from the latin verb volo, volare which means to fly. Hence, denoting them as working on aircraft. This precedent stems from the designation of aircrafts carriers as “CV” for “Cruiser, Voler” since they couldn’t do “CA” as that meant a heavy cruiser. However, I could be wrong completely on this!
I think you’re right
As a former Torpedoman 2nd class, I found this video very interesting. Particularly, the fact that TMs use to be Seamen. I thought TMs had always come from Firemen.
I believe TM came from Gunner's Mate originally
@@BattleOrder Maybe, but now we branch off of Machinist Mate.
The newly established US Space Force may adopt Naval rank for its enlisted personnel as well as officers
They went Air Force.
I mean it’s all the same thing but with a different occupational title at the beginning.
At the end of the day (in the modern Navy) you’re still a
SR - SA - SN - PO3 - PO2 - PO1 - CPO - SCPO - MCPO
Just think about it like this… on an aircraft carrier you’ll have an announcement over the 1MC.
“Petty Officer Smith to the mess decks”
You’d have like 50 dudes forming up on the mess decks. It’s much more efficient and convenient to say… “ET2 Smith to the mess decks”
Then you’d probably only have like 2 or 3 dudes showing up lol
There was a month or 2 there in 2016 where they wanted to get rid of ratings… one of the dumbest decisions of all time. They immediately changed it, because it was universally despised and was the brain child of one MCPON I think his name was Smith too 🧐
Vale mucho para mí