7 Reasons Why You Should NOT Go to Music School (TRIGGER WARNING)
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- Опубліковано 18 січ 2023
- Don't do it. Not even once.
Reason #1 0:12
Reason #2 2:31
Reason #3 5:25
Reason #4 7:09
Reason #5 7:52
Reason #6 9:05
Reason #7 11:26
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#college #musicschool #berklee
I have a doctorate in music, was a tenured professor for 10 years, have gigged my whole life, and the one word I have to say about this video is...yup.
Good man!
Wait. You can't say that you're an ultra music nerd.
Just because you live in a garage doesn’t make you a car.
That anecdote about the 4 chord never coming had me in stitches. Quality delivery Dani
Holy smokes man, you went in hard. My hat's off to you, I have never seen someone so critical of these school systems but I really feel like you are saying these things with the best of intentions to help people.
I didn't go to music school but can echo many of your points with regards to other universities/degrees. A lot of people ruin their financial lives by obtaining degrees that ultimately don't help them earn good livings.
Huge kudos to you for putting your perspective out here like this and not pulling any punches!
Yeah…
I went to Berklee for a year. Dropped out to go on tour with Gerald Veasley. I learned more in that 4 month tour than anything I learned in my first year.
To be fair, I loved my time there. But I would practice between 4 and 12 hours a day. I learned to hate music and guitar. You had to spend 3 to 4 hours a day in the practice studio, and then spend the rest of your night making sure that you were better than anyone else in your program. I understand that Berklee in the early 90s was different than what it is now. But it was all about competition and little about learning. I have learned more from my time playing with live bands, and some really good teachers along the way.
But Rick Peckham was a great teacher!
Thanks for the wake up call. I had a few people tell me it wasn’t necessary but still wanted to go to music school. This video snapped me out of it.
You forgot the best music academy in the world….our record player! On that record player the best teachers are rotating… Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Albert King, Hendrix, Beck, Herbie Hancock, Holdsworth etc.
I agree. I went to school for a bit but I had a Berklee teacher haha
And told me this same shit
Now just me and the Ole player
I love that Dani always seems to be having a blast doing these videos.
I was a guitar, Jazz Ensemble, and pop music teacher at an arts-based high school for 18 years recently retiring. Early on I would recommend going to college to study music (usually music education) but as I went on I started sending the technically inclined to study engineering or something they could work at to afford to feed themself. I would tell them to only go to college if someone else pays for it, NOT LOANS! All 7 of your reasons are completely true!
It’s a total scam and we should put some of these folks behind bars.
"sold them a dream." That's the worst part. My mother was a college professor turned high school teacher. She told me not to go to college. I'm glad she told me that. I went and got technical certs that landed me a job. Dani, I like you, this video is very important. Be well brother!
Funny story, I caught one of your shows waaaay back in maybe 2013-2014. After the show we were chatting and I asked you about Berklee - you told me not to do it. I went to college for music anyways at a much much cheaper college in a much cheaper town. My experience checked off absolutely everything on the list; clowns all around, no one can play, ended up having to take out (some) loans, etc etc. I got worse at my instrument during my studies, I had absolutely NO TIME to actually focus on what I needed to improve. It took me almost half a year to sharpen my ear and technique back to what it was before I attended.
I'm still doing music full time, I love every minute, and I'm making a pretty decent amount doing it, but every success I have is in spite of the anchor this degree has chained to my ankle. The stuff you told me back then saved me probably about 100k+ but I still feel like I should be committed to an asylum for going to college for this shit - and for doing it at age 25 after already doing just fine without the degree.
Thanks Dani, my career is only possible because of your advice that day, and that Marbin show is still one of the sickest I've ever seen
That’s great to read bro
I could not agree with you more. I picked up the guitar when I was 9 and by 13 we had a band that played throughout the province in any event imaginable. So when I took a semester of music in the late 80' I basically went through what you described. So out of the 4 semester required to complete the program, I quickly quit after the first semester and took a computer course instead while still playing on the weekend with the band. So I learned all my suspensions, alterations, extensions and substitutions by learning songs of records and later on the cassette became invaluable for working things out. Love your channel keep up the good work.
My first day in the jazz program at William Paterson Univ, jazz great Rufus Reid told all the newcomers that 99% of us would never make it as musicians. He was right. But the 1% who did; they made it huge: drummer Bill Stewart, saxophonist Eric Alexander. But I agree with Dani that those uber-talented artists were headed for greatness regardless of school. Fortunately, I had the foresight to focus on the music business tract and became very successful. No regrets!
I wanted to major in music, but in retrospect majoring in computer science was a more sensible choice. I'm in a band and I can afford gear and lessons.
Good! When would you like to start?
This is an awesome video with a lot of valid points. But just to offer another perspective: I studied Jazz at the New School (which sadly has really declined in the past few years). I totally agree with the point about their not being an objective measure. This is true of New School and Berklee especially and it’s really sad. However, from my personal experience, having a music degree has actually helped me out in certain situations. Having a music degree from New School has gotten me in the door for a lot of teaching work. I can tell you from personal experience that at least here in NYC, if you want to teach, a lot of institutions and people who want to take private lessons are more likely to seek you out if you have a music degree. I have also found that even for gigging, it can add a little bit of extra weight to your name, though of course it’s nowhere near as important as your professionalism and how you play. Also, I can definitely say I have gotten a lot of opportunities from the people I have met during my time in school. All of this is just my experience though. It really depends on what your goals are. If you want to be an internationally, acclaimed artist, getting a music degree is probably going to be a waste. It’s better if you want to be a working, teaching musician. I will say that if you don’t get a scholarship (even if it isn’t full ride), it might be worth thinking twice. Sorry for the long comment, but thanks for this video Dani and I love your music!
I agree with you not negative Dani. You have to know how to work the music indicatory and yes, you need to be good at whet you do much like all other professions.
I can relate to this so much. Although I didn't go to a highly expensive nor a renowned school, I never felt I got my money's worth. I basically paid for something that I later realized I could've learned on my own by transcribing tunes and reading books. Now with youtube it even makes less sense to study music performance in college. Had youtube been as prolific as it is now 20 years ago, I would've skipped college entirely.
Thx Dani you've just convince me to not go to music school. I have already all the skills in me to being a master and produce some freaking good music !!
Good!
This video has some inconvenient truths. I go to a local college and am studying a music minor. Although things like composition lessons and guitar lessons have helped me develop a work ethic, and a more realistic picture of how much work it actually takes to get somewhere, things like ear training they wouldn't fail you as long as you appeared like you were trying. I agree, and most people it is just not economically viable to study music at an institution. If you can get it paid for via scholarships or grants ect, then maybe, but you have to put in the work and you still have to deal with the things Dani said like busy work and overcoming your social identity from high school.
Thank you Danny for being so honest. It is so rare.
100% correct from my experience.
Luckily my bad music school experience was not $200K but I know someone who's was and they
don't play at all now.(sad) I was lucky enough afterward to take private jazz guitar lessons with a working musician and it was the most rewarding thing.
Your video emphasized it was worth every penny!
Lol, you’re not wrong. When I got out of high school I went to GIT long ago when it was a 1 year vocational school. That was a good fit for me, I could play well, but I didn’t know harmony, and I learned it during my time there. Then I went back home and busted my ass for more than a decade trying to find the right band. Finally, I joined a military band, which worked well for me. In that career I worked with dozens of people who had MAs, and several DMAs. Quite a large percentage of those folks had to learn to play on the job!
This video is so great ..
Shared with another high school kid today .
Great content as always Dani.
Thanks bro
I’m in 50,000+ of debt for studying music for 5 years, and I’m still a chef
I also worked in kitchens when I was a performing musician, I needed the money, and was never hungry that way.
this is turning into my favorite channel!
Welcome to the dark side
Very funny and very true!
Truth teller!!
I think goes with a lot of college studies. So much of college is not necessary. It's just a waste of money. Not all, but a lot.
Yup
1000% Agree
Give this man the world's biggest Attaboy!
I love and respect Dani for having the cojones to speak openly, transparently, and bravely about this topic.
He doesn't understand how large the music industry is. Overall I believe he is wrong. I have a music degree and have done well.
I have a masters in music and I teach high school guitar. I advise 99.9% of my students not to study music! I'm really lucky to have a job that relates to my degree, the reality isn't the same for many people with fine arts degrees. I'm enjoying your content, and brutal honesty!
If it’s so awful and you can’t recommend it, the lead by example and quit the job that asks this if you. Jesus.
You da man Dani ;)
Dude!!! How do I get in touch with you? Love you channel! Email me at marbinmusic@gmail.com if you can
@@marbinmusic I FBd you
Back in high school, a buddy and I played together every day, hours at a time, we lived to play. He got accepted to Berkeley, there was Absolutely no way i could afford college let alone music school. I always felt bad that i didn't get an opportunity like he did. So I Taught Myself! And yeah it was hard, and it took a long time, there was NO youtube, there were NO tv shows about harmony, chord structure, modes, scales, - i had to try and figure out what they were talking about in the few books available back then. Listening to songs i liked and analyzing why those notes or phrases worked taught me. I played 6 nights a week for 10 years cause I landed a gig with a house band, but it didnt pay squat. I still play but in my livingroom, I dont live in a jazz mecca, been to open sessions and found that the guys running it didnt impress me, and here we are. I still write, record, and play my stuff, but it (the music biz) rarely works out like you think or have been told it will.
If you play, or just wanna play, you will be doing it for the satisfaction of doing it. School wont help. You have to be happy in that You Figured It Out. Oh and my friend who went to Berkeley, he teaches music, runs a website, plays in 3 bands, gives private lessons, that should give you a clue just how successful his degree is. And he could play well before he went there.
There is much more to music then performance. Berklee offers 12 majors all in music. Plus you need to go where the jobs are. Your friend probably went back to his home town.
FYI, Berklee is not a jazz school. Wrong right off.
Preach it bruh! Made about $20K for a few years, ages ago. Most of that was industrials and soundtrack work. Always worked other jobs. Make a meager retirement amount now teaching, but yeah, when I think of the "industry" all I hear is a big sucking sound! I advise my students, if college is what they really want to do, to major in business, minor in music- just to keep themselves sane.
And employed
Dani Rabin is my spirit animal.
Just found your channel and I love it already. Awesome info.
Go to the cheap state school and major in music if you can. It does have pluses. But everything he said he about the expensive schools is true. Best ideas, take private lessons with the masters and your heroes.
There is much more to music then performance. Berklee offers 12 majors all in music.
@@DV-mq5fv and? Many schools other areas of focus, also. Composition, Theory, Production, Education, Performance.
Wow you are brutal, like a 21st century Henry Rollins...but you´re 100% right
I've been thinking of this ,Im 25 fall and I just dont know if I want to do music, where else could I be Marbin . If I only have a high school diploma it will be really cringe .And else I dont really know how to get the record deal ,the gigs,and business cooperations or many other stuff ,however music college may offer you these opportunities. I think maybe music college is the only way as far as now I would known
Email me at marbinmusic@gmail.com
Wow. This is an incredible topic that incriminates almost any non- professional degree. I mean we do want Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Engineers, Science, Accountants, etc to show the degrees or will AI come to a point where a curriculum can be outlined with the “best” video instruction, “best” text books, construct a test and grade it to demonstrate your understanding, coordinate online tutorials with those whom have verified skills and at the end of having demonstrating competence you receive a “degree” from the AI institute of learning.
Dude, you are different. It’s more than your angst. You have a gift of communication. There’s almost a disgust that what has been mystified is nauseating to you. I’m thouroughly enjoying your vids.
Hopefully you read this. I would pay for a lesson just to talk with you and then get an evaluation
Hit me up at danihrabin@gmail.com and thanks
Thanks for this. The people who need to see it are parents. That music school degree won’t qualify as post-HS education for most real world jobs. The story at Berklee in the 80’s was if you were any good you got scooped up by a working band in the first year. Just like college sports, if you make. It to graduation you probably weren’t that good. Paraphrasing Zappa: if you want to get laid go to college. If you want an education go to a library.
Sad but true
Fuck, that sucks. I always wanted to go to music school to be around people who are psychotic about guitar and perfecting your changes playing like me, but even mentors of mine who are in the world of academia tell me that you learn way more at an open jazz jam than at a school setting.
GOLD
I never understood why music and art schools only seek out the world class. As in, people who want to learn, can't, because they're not good enough in their eyes. The irony. I think the only thing that comes from Berklee is the clout, and the prestige of being a NYC jazz musician but again, they were incredible musicians anyway and were probably going to go on to be successful anyway.
There is much more to music then performance. Berklee offers 12 majors all in music.
Coldplay did play dive bars, though (according to the English girl who said she saw them in one c.2000) Rhianna did not. lol
Coldplay roughed it out for 10 minutes
Learn on the job❣️where do you learn the indispensable- grit
Thanks mom!
Do you give private lessons?
I sure fucking do! Hit me up at danihrabin@gmail.com
@@marbinmusic Love it : )
Yes. And he’s damn good at it. Dani is a great teacher
let's say I record a song and release it. Will people know if I have a degree or talent? If I play a simple C major, will it sound different if I have a diploma?
The presenter is guiding the viewer through the business model of most tertiary institutions these days. (I often wish I learned a trade and then went to university. Might have improved my chances of getting laid.)
You are the best!
Cos I love them 🤣
I like when he says shit
"with Madoff" !!!
As a young aspiring musician, I went to the wrong Berkeley. haha I moved to Oakland to be a marijuana activist.
Switching instruments as performance major in Berklee is unheard of... and I know loans at max only cover half of the Berklee tuition. Moral of your stories are not wrong XD but better have some truths too.
Kelly went entirely on loans, half federal half private like many others do. She was not a performance major but she did switch instruments. I’ve seen others switch from piano and guitar to vocal simply because actually leaning their instrument was proving too hard. No lies here.
@@marbinmusic you're correct about the half federal. I never would have thought private be willing to cover the other half, especially when they know the student doesn't have a collateral or the ability to pay it back.
Berklee has a performance rating given to all students, and is scored 1-10. 1 being equal to avg 18 years old, and 8 being professional. It's used to quantify difficulty of ensembles and you are matched with people with the same score. I know many pianists who got a 1 and stayed as 1 despite working their ass off to improve their scores all for the reason they were foreign to Jazz standards. Phenomenal classical pianists, phenomenal pop artists, just short in one area. Many people give up, and it's not uncommon to have 2nd semester students matched with 6th or 8th semester in ensembles.
Glad I escaped. Being forced to analyze the harmony of Beatles songs no fucking thanks.
👏🔥🔥🔥🔥🎶🎶🎶
Dani, as funny as these stories are they are also a bit on a self indictment. I mean why would you be in a two year relationship with someone like that? I understand putting up with Bassists though because you can't really have a band without one :)
I wish it was 2 I was with that degenerate bitch for 8 years
@@marbinmusic dude, you're candor just earned you my sub. Fucking hilarious and good content. Thanks.
Ethical jazz outside financial advise there, what you going to do with all the good karma 😁 some nightmare scenarios there.
You forgot Reason 8: why do you have to pay so much money? What is getting with this money?
I take froma Berkley graduate privately
Spell it Berklee.
🤣🤣
I dunno man. I know some rad Berklee grads and even some who were less than thrilled with their program, but I can’t recall anyone saying it was a total loss. Their grad programs seem to me to have some good value too. People who say they learned nothing there seem to be a small but vocal minority. I mean, your own premise relies on a handful of anecdotes (an ex you have an obvious axe to grind with among them!) There seems to be survivorship bias in both your initial examples (the “savants” and “do-nothings”). Probably a large middle who knew what they were getting into. Also… when I did a short program there they gave us the real scoop on what percentage end of graduates end up working full time in music (few). Probably a good thing to know before anyone matriculates, at least we might agree on that. Guess they didn’t mention that in 2008. Anywho, couldn’t all the things you say about music school also apply to almost any private Liberal Arts program? That’s not meant to be a gotcha. It probably would be best to rework undergraduate degrees entirely, I think. Berklee probably should be more streamlined, offer Associates degrees and open up courses for audit or non-degree students. I agree the money is a big incentive but at least something positive has probably happened as a side effect of someone attending. But you know what- I know more working musicians who graduated UMass Lowell than Berklee-without all the debt (or any of the cynicism, apparently). State and community colleges are actually probably the best bet for any serious young musician who wants the structure and not the debt.
Yes. Everything you say here. And it’s not a gotcha at all. It’s simply someone like you showing how this ridiculous view can’t hold water.
Un Lowell people are for local people. Students that go go Berklee generally are willing to go where the job is. That means anywhere in the world! The music industry is huge. You go to Lowell, you will stay in Lowell. My friend (Berklee grad) went to where the gigs are. He has been and is still the drummer on the Voice and makes mega bucks.
This is a dumb question but can you please define wrong notes in the context of this video?
Notes which you play over a harmonic progressions and groove, that make you sound like a clown and look like a jackass.
@@marbinmusic this is an interesting answer because I have been trying to develop my musical vocabulary and because I’ve mostly played around major scale and pentatonic whenever I learn something to play “outside” it takes time for my ears to accept that new sound. And you have been a big influence and I have tried to learn a lot from your videos . So even though you know almost all the sounds you are still able to says that some notes are wrong.
@@CliffKant don’t get me wrong. There are ways of playing every note in every context and making them sound great. Unfortunately there are even more ways of making them sound wrong.
You know what a train wreck sounds like
@@marbinmusic I understand when I’m the listener. I think the problem is also maybe more theoretical knowledge helps the “jazz improvisors” justify every note that they play even though it is horrible to the listeners. Like you said music is a language so even though all words are in the dictionary that doesn’t mean that all words can we used in all sentences 😂😂
This presentation is so limited. I graduated Berklee many years ago and have done fine. I knew how to approach the industry. Also, there are 12 majors at Berklee. For example, Film Scoring, Music Therapy, Contemporary Writing and Production. Not just performance. You are talking about losers. There are losers in every college. I think like most, Berklee is great. You are way too limited. There are many jobs in music beside what you are describing and you discover them at Berklee.
Depends on one's goals; A *Degree* can be a key to opening a door, Dad. :) You're speaking about *performance*, and for that I totally agree. Many players go to network & are only there a short while. Berklee offers a number of technical, composition, and business degrees. ~Berklee '91 Music Production & Engineering, Bachelor's Degree (not an apologist! ...just some of my own observations)
"She became a waitress instantly" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This impressionistic, lack of evidence, petulant childish perspective that assumes your experience is the same in every instance even Berklee, and that somehow your experience is so so important is exactly proof positive why people should go to school. To avoid this kind of self-aggrandizing drivel that makes one look utterly foolish.
Nah... Berklee sucks, it's a huge waste of money and I hate to say it, but I'm right and you're wrong
@@marbinmusic thanks for proving my point!!!
@@gregjohnson6329 glad you came around.
To the reply you deleted. I’m not saying anything except you look utterly foolish for assuming you know anyone’s experience other than your own and that you can be judgmental about that. You can absolutely share your own view, but you make claims here that are just ridiculous. Maybe have some humility and try and understand, first, your precious experience is not the gold standard and, second, there are countless of examples to show the contrary.
@@marbinmusic I came around. Back right where I began. Circle of fifth like.
That background music is FRIGGIN horrible. Bleepy frequencies killing EVERYTHING. Can't watch because of it.
That’s it if firing my vid editor! Nick you’re fucking out.
@@marbinmusic Hrrhrr... seriously, just found your channel, pretty good stuff, but once you notice the background music of this here, you can't "un-hear" it and it starts driving you mad.
Wow. This is an incredible topic that incriminates almost any non- professional degree. I mean we do want Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Engineers, Science, Accountants, etc to show the degrees or will AI come to a point where a curriculum can be outlined with the “best” video instruction, “best” text books, construct a test and grade it to demonstrate your understanding, coordinate online tutorials with those whom have verified skills and at the end of having demonstrating competence you receive a “degree” from the AI institute of learning.
Dude, you are different. It’s more than your angst. You have a gift of communication. There’s almost a disgust that what has been mystified is nauseating to you. I’m thouroughly enjoying your vids.
Hopefully you read this. I would pay for a lesson just to talk with you and then get an evaluation