Should You STOP ICING? Are You Delaying Healing?
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- Should You STOP ICING? Are You Delaying Healing?
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Bob and Brad discuss if icing your injury may be delaying healing.
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Why is it always when I do the wrong things you just put out the exact video?! Mindblown!
Perfect timing...
Sometimes you have to try each strategy successively on a nagging injury to discover which one works better.
Absolutely. I've had injuries that responded very well to heat and others that it made worse. Same with ice.
I don’t know,... tonight I slipped and fell on my left knee in the kitchen. What hurts is my skin and the muscle left of my kneecap. I’m icing it right now. What a coincidence that B&B are talking about to ice or not to ice. Right now, the ice feels so good!
I've iced after dental work and not iced after dental work. Icing helps me a lot.
Wow, I was always told RICE when in undergrad for Athletic Training (2012-2014) Nice to know.
That’s outdated info based on getting people on the field faster, not on actually healing injury. Science is fluid; we learn more with more time! 😁
You are both appreciated! Love your videos
Hello Royalty how are you doing today
Have a bad back and ice really helps alot. I'll keep doing it.
Now I am confused and do not know what to do.
Doesn’t matter. We all die anyway
I've been reading this same new way of thinking in other articles as well.Love you guys!
Love you guys!
I just fell today! I felt ice wouldnt help, went with gentle movement. But in general I like 5 min ice followed by 15 min heat for pain, swelling, circulation. But good points here.
Hope you're ok?
Im supporting both of you stay safe.
I’m SO diligent about icing with my coldpack. I am a tool dealing with a knee injury. I may look into the muscle thing.
Going around with my legs sore day after day after running. I've just started icing after particularly hard trains or long runs and life is a lot more comfortable.
Thank you, it's a great question
Ever heard of contrast hydrotherapy? Would take care of “ice” issue. 3 min moist heat, 1 min cold, repeat for 3 cycles and end on cold. Controls pain and improves circulation.
Bad back, shoulder, ankle....they took a vote and ice won! 😉 When Kelly came out with the news on ice a few years ago I disagreed and still do.
Hello how are you doing today
I’ve, unfortunately, had 10 surgeries (mostly ortho) and I’ve done different things each time. The first 4 ortho surgeries included RICE and the remaining included less or no RICE, but more active recovery. I’m recovering from a surgery right now (hopefully my last) and I’m only elevating it. No meds, just movement, no ice or compression, but I am elevating it throughout the day. What I’ve noticed, for me, is that the healing times aren’t that different with rice and no rice. It’s the food for me that made the biggest difference. I’ve had the same surgery twice before because of a re-injury and recovery time, energy, body’s ability to build muscle, etc. was better when I was on the better diet, by at least 30%, even though the same surgery was done several years later. It’s like I had reversed aging. I’m sure everyone is different, but for me, I focus less on RICE or not doing RICE, but more on movement and the diet.
Super interesting
I am totally confused now. I just had knee surgery 2 weeks ago. Is it safe to do warm pack treatment in the morning, and ice treatment in the evening, or should I stop with the ice treatment now?
Thank you!
Great stuff B&B - You did mention they say compression is still a good idea but I am reading a lot of stuff pretty much saying the same things about compression as they are about ice in terms of it delaying healing. Have you heard that at all?
The foam pad is great for balancing on one leg.
hi bob and brad I was diagnosed with a frozen shoulder and my physical therapist always ends the session with ice packs , is this advisable , please give me your expert opinion great video very informative as always 👍😊
You know our mothers in Nigeria argue the use of ice on acute injuries here . Because their approach had always been heat , massage , and movement. And it worked for them somehow. I just think ice is safer at least initially. It’s better than being unsure that you’ll get further inflammatory responses by the use of heat.
Interesting video ✅✅✅
Very respectful
Pulse
I've had 100 percent success with ice, when ice is not available 100% unsuccessful results.
Ice does do wonders when appropriate !
A bit confusing 😕 I use ice on the lower part of my back when it freeze up witch is only about 3-4 years and it helps . Most recent I hurt my knee a few months back I use cold and hot for it they both seem to help. Thanks for being there sharing your time.
Hello Sheila how are you doing today
With plantar fasciitis, do u want to rest as much as possible or have movement?
Allen Willette (tennis elbow classroom) has a video about why it's bad to ice tennis and golfer's elbow for the same reasons, but when I go to PT they always encourage ice at least in the evening or for really bad flare ups at the tendon origins. For now I'm trying with just the heat, massages, and movement.
Thank you for the information. It does seem there are two sides to consider. Yes, ice slows circulation. In context, however, the timed use of ice can actually improve venous drainage in the net thus allowing better subsequent motion/circulation. It would seem that intermittent use of ice Could help with a net increase in the circulation of the damaged tissue. Ibuprofen, does not alter the circulation in the same way. However, ibuprofen also decreases the turnover of chondroplast activity, which would delay the healing process. It seems motion is key and maximizes circulation as well as repair organization. So perhaps the measure is simply to do all u can to promote motion?
I been using them for pain control for decades as my spine was offset by 1/8th inch and for my fibromyalgia. I use Elastogel products and I think I'm addicted.
I have cartilage loss in both knees. I am currently getting cortisone shots in both knees. The only way I can function is icing after exercise and at bedtime everyday. I don’t think this is what you were referring to but just wanted to mention this. Thank you for the continuing education. ❤️
Hello Barbara how are you doing today
I use a iced clay pack every night to give my low back relief as well as a roller to make sure my back is flat. Once it warms up i switch to my side to sleep. Is that bad?
Question is then: Would heat be beneficial if we are looking to promote blood flow and healing during physical rehab? (Heat in this case = Warmpacks/Hotbath etc, nothing too scolding)
It would depend on the phase of healing.
Wow, I just sprained my ankle two days ago really bad. Thought I would for sure wind up in the air cast again. I doused the ankle in arnica oil, kept it elevated with ice. Had swelling the size of half a baseball. Could hardly walk on it. Did that twice the first day then doused again with arnica and threw a sock over it to sleep. Next day taped it with KT-Tape. By the third day it’s basically fine, walking ok, swelling gone and only a faint bruising.
Where did you get arnica oil?
@@harrisongilbert5534 It’s called Arnica Massage Oil, and the company that makes it is Weleda. Amazon sells usually sells it as well as some small organic/Whole Foods groceries.😊
Movement idea makes sense... Im always worse the next day afyer injury... Maybe from being still overnight. But a girl's gotta sleep!
I really appreciate Bob and Brad with presenting the new data. There's a lot of things today that we are finding go against what we were taught. For instance, the pyramids were built by super advanced machinery before the Younger Dryas. Who knew?! But main stream archeologist will never admit they were wrong.
I totally disagree not using ice. I've had enough injuries in my lifetime to know what works. Use ice at once to bring down the swelling, wrap it good and then start moving. That's the fastest way to heal yourself.
I use "ice" packs from the fridge, not the freezer. They are good for 20-30 mins, but don't "burn" like freezer packs.
I believe this for myself at least. I’ve had tendinitis in my calf for four years. I was resting and icing everyday. I no longer have time to Ice and on my feet twice as much and my foot and calf feel better?! ❤
I agree guys!
Hello Paloma how are you doing today
Why does ice (cold ) slow down & prevent the flow of oxygen? My understanding is that gases (oxygen) dissolve better @ lower temperatures. This should distribute oxygen better for cellular respiration & cellular remediation. True Bob & Brad?
I fell and I hurt my knee It feels like somebody is reaching in with there hand and squeazing the knew and the muscles out of my thigh too. I have had the x ray no fractures were found. The Va Clinic has schedule me for an MRI on Monday morning. I have been told to put Ice on it by my Va doctor. I don't feel like its doing anything. What could be wrong The Va says the will know when they get the MRI results. Its been almost 3 weeks since I fell
Look up Dr. Aaron Horshig from squat Bible he explains not using ice very well.
Can I use a cold packs on a muscle tear at my knee area?!
I used a cold pack after my physical therapy session today and felt massive relief from it!
In the past I felt really “groggy” and slow the rest of the day after a session.
I wonder if it really depends on the person.
I typically “run hot” with my body temp. Maybe that causes excess inflammation!
I know people that cant stand the cold or even the thought of getting iced. Maybe they have a different inflammation response?
Just got an ice pack for my thumb. Work as an engineer so can't rest it properly. Been icing in evenings for a couple hours a pop
Pulse for the masage
Messed myself up so here I am back on this channel 😂
Three years ago I had a tibial plateau fracture. My 35 ish doctor AND my physical therapist told me to ONLY ice after the first 2 weeks if it was throbbing. I was also in a Facebook group where people were pushing lots of ice and at the same time complaining they had a LOT of swelling. I was told not to take any anti+inflammatories OR ice it much. I didn’t. Compression hurt so all I used was movement like your slide recommendation using a furniture slide on the rug to just go back and forth. If it hurt or swelled, I moved more. I got full extension faster than the others in the FB group and I didn’t have any problems with swelling. I also did heated water physical therapy. It was awesome. I think this is #truth.
Love it! I hate ice anyway and prefer no ice in food or drinks.
Hello Catherine how are you doing today
Ice is awesome, but only for the first 20 minutes after injury.
I've had long term chronic soft tissue injury and never found much relief from ice. I ice after injections but that's about it. It causes muscle issues for me. I find taking a bath and moving the joint and stretching after more beneficial. It's like taking pain pills... It masks the symptoms but doesn't fix anything for my condition.
Hello Jennifer how are you doing today
If you've suffered from an injury and need pain relief, icing is the most natural analgesic. But it's important to understand that ice doesn't actually facilitate healing, and applying it for long periods may do more harm than good in the long term.
Acetaminophen (Tylenol) is a good alternative to ibuprofen if pain medication is needed because it has no anti-inflammatory properties. But since injury pain is usually brought on by inflammation, acetaminophen may not be as effective at pain relief. And it's hard on the liver so don't take Tylenol if you have liver problems.
I read inflammation fluids can leak into surrounding tissues causing swelling which would slow blood-flow.
Does this theory apply to chronic pain, like osteoarthritis?
When should I stop using the heat pad for back pain?
When the pain reduces and it’s time to go do something useful... some say a few minutes at a time, some say twenty minutes max a few times a day
I’m recovering from a Grade 2 LCL sprain in my right knee. Oddly I had no or little swelling (hard to tell because osteoarthritis has misshapen my knee). It took about 2 weeks before I could walk a few metres without stabbing pain. I tried leg lifts and isometric quad exercise during the first 2 weeks and stopped immediately due to sharp pain. I use an ActiveWrap knee icing device (highly recommended) every 3 hours for 15 minutes and resting, and some compression and elevation have led to noticeable improvement after 4 weeks. I’m considering beginning light no impact exercise now that the pain has reduced to the point where I can handle about 2 stair steps before pain starts and my knee just refuses to carry weight. This is interesting new information but for serious injury I just can’t see movement when any movement is extremely painful. I’ll do more research.
as a chronic back sufferer ice never ‘felt’ right
Muscles swelling reduces circulation that allows healing. Ice and ibuprofen reduce swelling.
Ice can slow circulation but reduce swelling.
I think ice helps
Should I ice if I have ankle pain?
I get swelling in my knee but I don't have any real pain at all I think it has something to do with my shoes and hips being out of alignment
Pain-free movement definitelt helps me recover so pain relief is the way forward. I recently had knee surgery and found ice helped my poorly knee. But! My good knee started to swell and I also applied ice and It now feels worse?! So I don't know.
You could try castor oil, also known as Palma Christi oil. You rub it on thick and put a cloth over it so as not to stain clothing, it is greasy. It helps drain lymphatic fluid but is also a great pain reliever and good for your skin. One bottle goes a long way and costs 7.50$ in Canada. Health food stores.
@@granmabern5283 thank you. I've not heard of this before. Can I ask from where did you find this?
What about ice for inguinal hernia surgery?
its not a either or question but a both .... and question wim hoff have healed his body with ise bath but moving is alså a part of healing i belive
not gonna lie i am recovering from heelbone fracture and i instinctively believed i shouldnt elevate my feet all the time because at some point it needs to be down anyway. of course you should elevate at all times when you are 3 weeks out of the surgery but after the 3 week mark i gave it a bit of swelling every now and then and elevate back again. now at the 6th week mark i let it swell even more and guess whatit doesn't swell as bad as it used to be. ofcourse this is due to total healing of the fracture and everything but this is just my 2 cents
I've been dealing with shoulder pain for over 6 months (doctor said it is bad bursitis and also found that my bicep tendon was inflamed as well) and cold packs are all I can use. I tried to put heat on it and heat makes my pain 1000x worse. As of now I put cold packs as my savior since nothing else helps..take meloxicam everyday and that does not do much to help since it still no matter what gets to feeling like someone is trying to rip my arm off
I’m the same way. Heat seems to prolong or worsen my injuries whereas ice has always aided tremendously in my recovery.
Perhaps it varies by person.
Did you get your neck checked? It might be nerve pain from a neck sprain or slipped disk type thing. Bob and brad give advice for neck nerves pinching.
@@granmabern5283 that was the first thing they thought it was, MRI did not show anything wrong with my neck. I went to a different doctor who checked my shoulder saying it was bad case of bursitis. Just been a lot of physical therapy that doesn't help and shots that work for a few days and then make things worse
There is also a theory about cold showers stimulating healing or alternating cold warm. I live in Europe and following a cast removal physio involved 3 pain relief treatments for a week to lessen pain (due to C-19 I had the cast on longer than usual causing extreme stiffness and muscle loss with pain after cast removal). Have to say the cold was not a favourite but hard to say what helped. Either way, after just a few days pain was drastically reduced, enabling me to do exercise and increase strength and mobility in the arm and hand.
It is also used to treat patients with rheumatoid arthritis here, which frankly surprised me, since my mother suffered from the disease and cold always caused stiffness and pain. Warmth on the other hand, gave relief and greater movement (she lived in the UK).
Perhaps there is value in the alternating of cold and warm? As in sauna followed by cold then sauna?
Sorry will just add- other two treatments were Tens and a laser.
New study came out basically probing icing is pretty bad for recovery for serious injuries and surgery.
hot and cold is supposed to help release healing. I thought that horses and athletes responded well to this too?
Currently suffering with Gouty arthritis.... I've been using ice for treatment and seems to work better for me than heat...
My brother-in-law uses one teaspoon celery seeds in boiling water, a cup or two a day for gout... Moringa powder is supposed to do wonders for arthritis, and it’s very healthy. Best wishes from Canada
@@granmabern5283 Thank you for that information....may have to try it out 👍👍👍
Near infrared light / heat. It charges up the mitochondria cells act faster to heal.
I still am dealing with back pain since Nov should I be icing still
Hello Sheryl how are you doing today
What about after surgery?
Hello Debrah how are you doing today
I’m desperate for help! I was diagnosed with patellofemoral syndrome 1 year and a half ago and I’ve been having pain ever since. I’ve done everything I could: icing, resting, I’ve done over 6 weeks of PT and 2 weeks ago my orthopedist gave me a cortisone shot in my knee. These past 2 days I’m in a lot of pain, I can barely walk. I’ve stopped literally living because of the pain... I don’t do fun activities anymore, I don’t feel like going out... I go to my job trying to hold my tears and come back home and cry... it’s been like this for months now. I feel hopeless 😢
My chiropractor told me icing would reduce a spasm faster than heat.
Hmmm. Watching this as I'm icing my knee. No more? Seems to help but who knows?
Hello Rosemary how are you doing today
Bob and Brad should switch names ... sorry but I keep switching your names up when I tell my wife what I learned each day!
My mom is 75 years old and her knee has been hurting on both sides for weeks. I literally just massaged it for her minutes ago and she "NOW" has an ice pack sitting on it. We rotate ice and heat. We think its arthritis...so no more ice?
Just want to say that your mom is blessed to have you.
Perhaps the alternating is better than just ice?
Certainly read a study about massage being ultra helpful. Your mum is blessed to have you!
@@bernadettehawes Thank you..have to take care of mom. I am blessed to have her! 🤗
@@teresagallegos3084 Thank you 🙏🏾
You could use Palma Christi oil, aka castor oil, it relieves pain when rubbed on.
My acupuncturist said the same thing about ice delaying healing. She told me heat is always the way to go to promote healing. Ice I always felt numbed the pain and never did anything other than freezing the pain then it would come back. I was using ice for my heel pain for months and I am nervous it delayed the healing. I use only heat now. I still stay active everyday.
Wow
Gabe Mirkin, the dude that coined "RICE" in the 70s, doesn't even stand behind it anymore. Not fully anyway. Icing is nothing more than an analgesic; it does not actually promote healing. Mirkin now says icing an injury is ok if you just want pain relief, but don't apply for more than 5 minutes. Any longer and you risk prolonged recovery and possibly tissue damage.
Resting I think is still a good idea for 48 hours following an injury, but after that it's better to move if you're able. Exception if the pain is too much or you are limping. In any case too much bed rest isn't very good for the muscles. If you think about it, weak muscles are a primary reason injuries occur, so the last thing you want to do is make them even weaker. So stay as active as you can within your ability, but stop if activity is worsening the pain.
Acute inflammation is something that really shouldn't be prevented. Either by icing or taking NSAIDs like ibuprofen. Your immune system exists for a reason, and swelling is part of the healing process. It's not fun, but it's better than prolonging your recovery which icing and taking medication that suppresses our immune response will do.
So acute inflammation is beneficial, and what most of us have following an injury. It's a normal, healthy response. It's not the same as chronic inflammation, which IS bad. This often happens in those with an autoimmune disorder, diabetes, and even gum disease. Over time with chronic inflammation, the immune system starts to view even healthy cells as a threat and will attack those too.
Point is, not all inflammation is equal. Treatment will differ based on whether it's acute or chronic.
I can’t agree with this.
Inflammation has been the source of so many of my problems-from sciatica, to mensural headaches to a bout of viral meningitis-and ice has routinely helped alleviate painful reactions my body was experiencing
They're not saying it doesn't relieve pain , because It obviously does. They're saying it might slow the healing when used consistently over the period of injury
Inflammation is part of the healing process though, so the idea of reducing inflammation isn't always best. Otherwise, doctors would prescribe anti-inflammatory medication as standard, but usually it's only for very bad or chronic inflammation. You can't take anti-inflammatory medication long term.
Turmeric milk, aka golden milk, is great for health, guts and is anti inflammatory
@@RDS_Armwrestling Again, i disagree. My piriformis was inflamed and as such, was pressing on my sciatic nerve. Ice was the cure.
@@garethwilliams1058 I didn’t mean to imply it was simply pain relief. My piriformis was inflamed and as such, was pressing on my sciatic nerve. The ice calmed my piriformis which then stopped pressing on my nerve. Yes it’s pain relief but not that whole story.
How about you don’t ice, and I will again if I ever need to. I think that’s fair.
I. NEVER. EVER. ICE...DUH!
First one to say, “First!”!!!
looks like I'm late to this hype train huh? lol! pinched my neck nerve real bad i got fever. now doing their prescripted exercises
Best of luck
METH ACRONYM Is the NEW RICE
You should of never robbed me to begin with.
I'm a third world man that is empty and sabotaged with nothing good around me.
Lol well all the athletes with their doctors and sports scientists oh and their long careers call u a liar
Too much of any good thing is bad.
I like it hot
So much misinformation out there. If what you been teaching has been working for years, I wouldn’t change it. Unless you have a desk job most people I know are on their feet all day everyday. Some people don’t get enough rest and people are being told to push themselves too hard. Listen to your body.
You stole from me leaving so much nothing. I dont agree with anything the medias ever produced.
Only a complete fool would recommend against icing...