Atlantis, Pseudoscience, and Racism: Comments on the Atlantis Paradigm and a Response to "DeDunker"
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Some comments on the difference between pseudoscience and science, the racist foundation of Ignatius Donnelley's ideas about Atlantis (i.e., the nature of "civilization" and how we should interpret evidence of ancient "civilizations" around the world), hyperdiffusionism, and racist currents in early Egyptology. Some guy named Dan (aka "DeDunker") seemed to misunderstand much of an interview that I did with Seth Andrews, and spent an over talking about his misunderstandings. I thought it would be useful to add some clarity.
Here is the interview: • "Aliens Built the Pyra...
Here is the talk I gave in Evansville (sorry for the poor audio): • "Ancient Aliens: A Jok...
Here is the video I'm responding to: • Archaeologist Misleads...
Another great video, and as always right on point.
Science has been under attack forever, and archaeology hasn't been spared.
A friend of mine used to be a fan of von Däniken in our early 20s. Gradually he fell into the trap of believing in this ancient astronaut crap, and soon he started denigrating native populations around the world, both past and present (except Caucasians, of course).
What you’ve described, I’ve seen it happen with my own eyes. I’m expecting him to visit again in a month, and I honestly don’t know what to expect after some xenophobic comments he made a year ago when we last met. Hopefully our old friendship will be enough to get him to listen to reason and actual facts. I'm curious to see if he's adopted Hancock's hyperdiffusion crap.
Thanks Andrew keep up the good work and Thanks for giving us the resource to help debunk the junk !
We wouldn't be having this conversation without Donnelly. At least about Atlantis. We could still have conversations about the inability of native cultures to produce mounds in the Ohio Valley, or ruins in Central America, and your fundamental argument would still be sound. Atlantis is just another form of the same Ur-nonsense: interpreting the scope of human history through a racial lens, with some sort of assumed hierarchy and all the predictable corollaries which come from it.
I still see people making similar arguments in regards to the Inca and their polygonally masonry. These alt-history people fail to understand the techniques that the Inca used, even though they were well documented by the spanish chroniclers, so they allege that the indigenous population was incapable, and that the stonework must have been done by some hyper advanced lost global civilization. That’s basically denying Andean people their own history. And they do that in a way that they’d never do with the ancient Romans or ancient Greeks, who also had impressive stone monuments. It’s typically only brown people where they won’t give them credit for their own architectural accomplishments.
And before anyone responds that the Inca told they spanish that they didn’t build these sites, that’s a misquote! It was people around lake titicaca who said that to Cieza De Leon in regards to the Tiwanaku ruins, which were indeed constructed by a know earlier civilization who preceded the Inca by about 1000 years.
Graham Hancock’s earlier work did explicitly claim that the Inca road network was built by white people. His more recent books have softened that down so it’s less offensive, and he doesnt use the term “atlantis” anymore (even though he once heavily sourced from Donnely), where he now only proposes that people in the new world were only taught the skills necessary to develop civilization by some lost global civilization. That is a little less offensive, but is still is based on the idea that they weren’t capable of developing their own complex cultures without outside help.
@@TonyTrupp Tell that to Luke Caverns, as a "professor" of anthropology he should learn that extra little bit of history.
@@robswright68Luke and I have chatted about that topic, and I explained where that quote came from. He didn’t argue the point, and I haven’t seen him repeat that misquote since then. I’m not sure if he’s still promoting the “inca didn’t build it” claim, or if he now realizes that was inaccurate.
@@TonyTrupp In Luke's video Origins of Megalithic Building in Ancient South America he sets up the complete Brien Foerster/UnchartedX "Inca didn't build it" narrative complete with the story that the "Inca even said so to the Spanish chroniclers." That's the first video of his that I watched all the way through and it was pretty bad. I let him have it on his FB post of that screenshot with Jahannah James. I don't think many people read that deep into the thread. My beef is that I waste time arguing with his followers who quote him saying these things, he claims he is not responsible for his audience, then I watch his video and he does say these things. He does profess a belief in a lost ancient civilization from the Amazon up to 10,000 years ago "that had the ability to quarry, cut and transport giant megalithic granite blocks to an extent that dwarfs any civilization anywhere in the ancient world." He does teach that the megalithic stuff is the "different style so different culture and too baffling for the modern engineers Pre-Inca stuff." He says so in the video. If he changed his tune then he should update his video.
Well said!
UA-cam recommended me this video apropos of nothing and it was great, thanks. Subscribed 😊
Thanks and welcome! I hope you don't regret it.
Was recommended that channel and had to tell yt I'm not interested. Checked a couple vids and then spent time looking through comments. Found a few vids with maybe 1 or 2 valid critiques but most dialogue and comments seemed to be complaining about people not taking a story with no credible evidence seriously. Otherwise most vids seemed to center around having issues with people talking about subjects with evidence to back up what they are saying explaining why those stories aren't taken seriously, normally due to a lack of credible evidence.
On your interview at The Thinking Atheist, I quite enjoyed the discussion. As for content on your personal channel, think it's great you do what you want. Many of the vids covering music or other topics I found interesting even though mostly here for archeology discussions.
Thank you. I haven't watched his videos other than the one about me and the one he just did on Flint Dibble. Not impressed.
I like atlantis in movies. I'm old but not have met anybody who's serious about this topic. When I hear people talking about this, (and aliens) and taking them seriously, my jaws drop.
Thx for a history lesson. Looking forward to something from the instruments behind you. 🖖
That's what you think now . . .
I've heard it from pseudoarchaeologists all the time. They don't like that Atlantis has this very visible and concrete racist background or that it was a popular topic among the Ahnenerbe. They don't like that there's this fundamental problem with Atlantis and they whine because they feel like this being called out is another example of "wokeism" attacking or simply an attack. I had heard this podcast where this guy was whining about it: "I'm not racist but I shouldn't be called racist for peddling Atlantis"
I don't think it's in terms of Racism , I think in terms of it's dumb.. Atlantis & such nonsense is just DUMB...
I think it's both. Sometimes the racism explains why people look past the dumb. And sometimes the dumb explains why people look past the racism.
Everyone would have invented boomerangs because they are useful/a solution in every environment...suuuuure...
When you say the ideas are racist, their response is always "Stop calling Graham racist, He has a wife of color" I have heard that about 7 times in Dan's comment section. I asked why they can't at least acknowledge the racism And big Dan himself said "The ADL has exactly zero mentions of Atlantis in their entire database." HAHAHAHAHA Then asked if I knew anyone who became racist because of Hancock I almost hurt myself laughing. Good one Dan you know that's not what I am saying Or do you. Dan if you see this let me know Thanks Andrew
ATL is a Nahuatl Word !
So basically Atlantis is not a physical place on earth period. It does not exist.
Seems like you skipped LePlongeon and BourBourg who have non racist Atlantis theories. Are you saying that believing in LePlongeon is also racist?
It’s hard to ignore a man who backed up his theories by finding a Sphinx in Chichén Itzá: ua-cam.com/video/AuMKIRJhrro/v-deo.html
What is racism ? Suspect there is only one race of humans descended from a common ancestor far away in the mist of time. As these beings spread over the world in small hunter groups, place and circumstance encouraged interbreeding - ultimately producing physical and mental characteristics unique to the group survival.
Canines are an example of this. Most can mate with other canines and produce off spring with particular characterics that can be reinforced through more selective breeding . . . producing very distinctive 'Breed types' with pronounced physical and mental characterics ei: hunting Wolf, fighting Pit Bull, gentle Labradors, and tiny lap dogs . . . All variations of ancient ancestors.
Human are the same. The difference between us is a matter of breeding.
Race is a social construct, not a biological one: there is no concept of race in biology.
Comparisons between dogs and humans are actually not very useful: dogs are incredibly diverse as a result of artificial selection, they have huge amounts of diversity in their genome; humans on the other hand have surprisingly little diversity in our genome, and are genetically pretty much identical regardless of race.
@@crow-dont-know Interesting theory. Shame a chat that needs time in a pub is restricted. Nuance is impossible, only general suppositions.
Ergo, I must presume you know very little of dogs and the only other life species that not only mirror us exactly but show a standard of nobility a few humans do.
Pit Bulls are bred for violence and can never ever be trusted by even their owners. Labs are bred for love and dignity. Always playfull and only deadly when their human is in danger.